March 10, 2025 • 20 mins
Hello, HOPE Podcast Listeners; we live in a fast-paced world where new material and ideas are thrown at you 24/7. Some of you told us this and said, "I want to listen to everything, but it's hard to catch up!" Well, we're here to help. We desire to be a place that is grateful for and respectful of your precious time. And so, to serve you best, we will every so often be resharing past episodes that we call second listen - because we think they are worth taking a second to replay! Even if you are an every week listener, we think having a second listen to these episodes will make an impact on your week and life. And if you have heard this one but are behind on new episodes, now is a great time to catch up on any others you have missed!
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ORIGINAL SHOW NOTES (8/2023)
For this episode, we're welcoming James Lee, Director of Communications for the United Methodists of Greater New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania. This episode is a deep dive into the innovative world of online ministry, moving beyond merely streaming services to fully embrace the potential for technology to enhance faith communities and connect people to the local church.
NOTES & RESOURCES:
- Special Thanks to James! You can reach out to him at jlee@gnjumc.org
- Join in for HOPE online!
- Worship: https://hope.altarlive.com/
- Small Groups: https://meethope.org/groups
- Social media: @meethopechurch on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube
- Want to get involved with online ministry at HOPE? Emailing rick@meethope.org would be a great place to start!
- Checkpoint Church in NC link: https://www.checkpointchurch.com/
Thanks for being a part of the HOPE community as we continue conversations about faith and hope! You can learn more at meethope.org or find us on socials @meethopechurch. Join in for worship on Sundays at meethope.online.church! Have a question? Contact us at podcast@meethope.org.
Enjoy what you heard? Be sure to rate us on Apple Podcasts and click the subscribe button so you don't miss new episodes every Monday!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro 1 (00:00):
Hello Hope Podcast listeners.
We live in a fast-paced worldwhere new material and ideas are
thrown at you 24-7.
Some of you told us this andsaid I want to listen to
everything, but it's hard tocatch up.
Well, we're here to help.
We desire to be a place that isgrateful for and respectful of
your precious time, and so toserve you best, we will every so
often be resharing pastepisodes that we call Second
(00:22):
Listen, because we think theyare worth taking a second to
replay.
Even if you are an every weeklistener, we think having a
second listen to these episodeswill make an impact on your
weekend life, and if you haveheard this one but are behind on
new episodes, now is a greattime to catch up on any others
you have missed.
Thank you, and here we go you.
Intro 2 (00:49):
And here we go.
Welcome to the Meet Hopepodcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Jeff (01:13):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Meet Hope podcast.
I'm Jeff Bills and I am excitedto be joined today by a
colleague, the Reverend JamesLee.
So, james, welcome, glad tohave you with us.
James (01:31):
Jeff, it's a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Jeff (01:34):
So James is a pastor, but he is currently working as the
Director of Communications forthe Greater New Jersey Annual
Conference of the UnitedMethodist Church.
I don't know how you fit thaton a business card that sounds
so important and serious.
It really does and scary.
And that's not all.
He also is the same positionfor the Eastern Pennsylvania
(02:00):
Annual Conference.
That is correct.
So big, big job.
I want to talk to you aboutthat in just a moment.
But just so folks get a chanceto learn a little bit about your
real life, tell us aboutyourself.
James (02:15):
Yeah, so once again, thanks for having me on the
podcast.
I'm very excited to be here.
I'm honored.
Thanks for inviting me.
I'm James Lee.
Reverend Lee is my dad, so justcall me James.
So you're a pastor's kid.
I am a pastor's kid, that iscorrect, and I'm married to my
(02:35):
beautiful wife, julie, 11 years,and we have three kids Amy,
adam and Renee.
They're eight, six and three.
Renee is turning four nextmonth.
You're a busy man.
My heart is full.
Yes, absolutely, and yeah, Istarted serving as the director
(02:56):
of communications for twoconferences since October.
Before that, I've been a pastorin different capacities for
about 10 years, so excited to behere.
Jeff (03:06):
Yeah, so you're communications director for an
annual conference, and so that'sfor those of you who are not
Methodist by background, that is, all of the churches in New
Jersey, as well as some churchesin PA, new York.
James (03:23):
Yeah, so there's very few churches in New York, some in
Pennsylvania, about 600 churchesin greater New Jersey and then
about 400 churches in easternPennsylvania.
Jeff (03:35):
Wow so, 1,000 churches.
James (03:37):
Yeah, so that's from Philly to Lancaster is the
eastern Pennsylvania conference.
Yeah, so we do all thingsnewspaper, email marketing,
social media, video productionbasically trying to cultivate
connection, make sure we arereminded that we're all in this
together.
Maybe there are messagingcoming from the bishop that we
(03:59):
would also share Just open,honest conversations across
clergy church leaders.
Just open, honest conversationsacross clergy church leaders.
And ultimately, our mission hasbeen to equip and recruit
transformational leaders,Because when the leader's better
, everyone gets better.
Jeff (04:15):
I love that, I love that.
So you guys, you have a team.
James (04:19):
Yes, we have an editorial manager who oversees the
newspaper.
We have an editorial managerwho oversees the newspaper.
We have a graphic designer, avideo producer, an IT web
specialist and administrativestaff.
So we're a team of six and Ilove them.
They do great work and it'ssuch an honor.
Sometimes I just wonder why I'mthere, Because they do all the
(04:40):
amazing stuff and I just keepencouraging them.
I'm like the officialcheerleader, basically, at this
point.
Jeff (04:47):
So you and I have the same job.
That's right, that's it.
That's it Very cool.
Um, so that's what you do, but,um, what we wanted to talk
about, uh, today, what I wantedto talk with you about today
more specifically, is onlineministry.
So, it's something I know you'reinterested in.
(05:09):
We've been interested in sinceCOVID when we, like every other
church, we had to suddenly getonline somehow and so we started
again like everybody else.
So we had an iPhone on a tripodand just tried to put something
out there.
(05:29):
Yeah, we've come a long waysince then, but what we're
talking about is a ministrythat's online, not just a
worship service.
Correct, absolutely yes.
Talk about that for a second.
James (05:45):
Yeah.
So before I went into full-timeministry, I was a video
producer.
I was a freelance videoproducer.
I would make wedding films, Iwould make commercial films.
I loved being behind the cameraand when I finally accepted the
call to ministry, I packed upmy camera gear and put it in the
closet, so to speak.
(06:06):
I said, lord, I'm here, I'll beobedient to your call to be a
pastor, and my camera gear kindof sat in the back.
Jeff (06:14):
Yeah, yeah.
James (06:14):
Well, I would say pre COVID.
I remember conversations aboutonline church was sort of a
taboo there were a lot ofchurches that didn't like
talking about it.
Back in 2013, I believe andJeff, you may know this better
there was bishops of the UnitedMethodist Church got together
talking about online communionand basically their verdict was
(06:37):
no.
Jeff (06:38):
No, it doesn't.
James (06:39):
And their reasoning behind that was that this is
essentially spiritualconsumerism, that this is not
real church, was essentiallywhat they said in fancy language
.
And me?
I've always been interested intechnology and how it brings us
together and I was always askingthose questions of what does
(07:01):
online communion, what doesonline community look like?
And even before the pandemic Iwas in my particular ministry
context we were having thoseconversations.
Well, interestingly enough,during the pandemic, by May of
2020, 100% of our churches wereonline across greater New Jersey
(07:22):
like 600 plus churches allonline.
These same churches that weresaying no, this is bad, this is
not a good thing.
They were all online and whatit proved, at least, was that
community that is perhapsphysically apart but through
online platforms is possible.
(07:43):
What I am especially interestedin is to go beyond just having
the camera in the back andpressing the live stream button.
The mission of the church is tomake disciples of Jesus Christ
for the transformation of theworld, and I think every church
would have a slightly differentidea of what a disciple might
look like, what it means to liveout the calling of following
(08:04):
Jesus in their context, but inour church we said a disciple is
someone who worships and getsto know God through worship,
grows in faith through smallgroup and serves the world
through mission.
I know here at Hope Church it'sworship plus two.
Right, it's attending worshipsmall group, growing in
accountability in your faith andthen somehow practicing that
(08:26):
faith and serving the world,right, yeah, my question was
that I've been wrestling withwas is that possible only
through online means?
Can a disciple of Christ bemade through online?
And if the answer is yes, whatdoes that look like?
And the pandemic was thegreatest opportunity to explore
(08:48):
that, and in our church, peoplewere worshiping online.
We had online small groups thatwere happening weekly.
In fact, our small groupsreally blew up during the
pandemic.
We had very little small groupsbefore, but now everyone was
part of a small group at thatpoint, looking for that sense of
community because they're onlockdown.
(09:10):
Yes, yes, because they're onlockdown.
Yes, yes, but interestinglyenough, those small groups
naturally were asking what canwe do together Now that we're
together?
They were inspired by the word,inspired by the scriptures that
they were studying and sayingwhat can we do?
In my particular context, therewas a call from a distribution
(09:36):
center near us that wouldsupport about 60 to 100 families
who were in need, and, becauseof the pandemic, a lot of the
resources and volunteersunfortunately just pretty much
hit rock bottom right,disappeared, and so we asked
what can we do?
And they said well, one thingwe do is we provide meals to all
(09:58):
these families.
Can you make sandwiches?
And we said, yeah, we could dothat.
And so the small groups wouldmeet.
I have a video of this.
The small groups would meet onZoom and read the word together
and while they're on Zoom, theywould start packing sandwiches
from their kitchens and theywould coordinate drop-offs and
all these things.
And that grew to then othersocial services in different,
(10:23):
different towns around ourchurch.
We, within the first two weeksexcuse me, within the first two
years of the pandemic, we packeda hundred thousand meals.
Our church of maybe a hundred,150 people that is online church
, right.
A community that worshiped ahundred percent online grew in
(10:44):
their faith and theiraccountability through small
groups and said what can we doto live out our faith and make a
difference in?
Jeff (10:51):
the world.
So it's it's possible to dothat.
The other thing that wediscovered was that, suddenly,
geography no longer mattered.
Yeah, yeah.
We had people who were deeply apart of our community, who
moved to other states out of thearea, who reconnected with us
(11:13):
because they could now onlineand, like you said, not just
showing up on a Sunday for alive stream worship service, but
then getting involved in oursmall groups.
James (11:25):
Yeah, Not to sound like an old school guy, but no danger
of that, james.
But the founder of Methodism,john Wesley, said it best the
world's, my parish yes, andonline ministry lives that out.
Jeff (11:39):
Yeah, so what do you think are the unique challenges to an
online ministry?
James (11:46):
Yeah.
Jeff (11:47):
Because I've got my own sense of that.
James (11:49):
But I'm interested in what of that, but I'm interested
in what Now?
The 2013 or 2014 or so analysisfrom our bishops about the
dangers of spiritual consumerismisn't completely false, right?
So I would argue that evenin-person church right 100% you
(12:11):
could be practicing spiritualconsumerism, but there is
certainly a higher probabilityor tendency for that to be
something that happens.
Another challenge I would sayis a lot of folks try to engage
or cultivate an online communitywith methodologies that work
(12:31):
for in-person community.
That's interesting communitywith methodologies that work for
in-person community.
Oh, that's interesting.
So it would be important tonote that how you live out and
cultivate an online community isa completely different medium.
It's kind of like comparingbooks to TV shows.
You know you wouldn't point acamera to a book as you turn the
pages and call that a TV show.
(12:51):
Many churches, unfortunately,just leave a camera in the back
and press a button and thinkthat's online church and that's
not it.
There are certain nuances.
There's different methods ofstorytelling and engaging in
folks.
Even the language we use is alittle different when we're
engaging with folks online, soit's almost like learning a
(13:11):
different language.
Jeff (13:13):
It's true, and I um, we've been, you know, kind of
figuring that out as we go along.
You know what works onlineversus what works in the room,
and we do a hybrid thing.
So we have, uh, our serviceshappening live in a room, but
we're also live streaming andthat's being saved so people can
(13:35):
watch it later.
And how do you communicate withboth of those audiences?
James (13:42):
Yeah, and different people will interact differently
, and at least how the church islived out today.
I think it is a hybrid approach.
So I think about how I interact, let's say, with my wife I I I
was just texting her before westarted this podcast right.
(14:03):
We're using technology tocommunicate back and forth and
connect, sure, but I'm alsolooking forward to going home
tonight and having dinner withmy family in person, right, so
so?
Jeff (14:16):
So both and not either.
James (14:18):
I think the both and is going to be more prevalent.
Yeah, although there arerelationships that happen solely
online.
So, for instance, there is aperson that I built a friendship
over church communications.
This person is a director ofcommunications of a large church
(14:40):
out in Oklahoma.
Okay, and I've never met her inperson, right, but through
email, chat, zoom calls, we haveconnected and we challenge each
other, grow together.
You wouldn't say thatrelationship is not real.
Nope, no, that is.
I would consider her a closefriend, right.
(15:02):
So that's the way.
So there are, and technology isonly going to get better.
So, you know, I continue todabble in, like in VR and meta,
and I don't think we're quitethere yet, but the relationships
we have online and theinteractions are real and the
(15:24):
spirit is there.
Intro 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
James (15:27):
There was one person I won't say say their name per se,
but they were on the chat whenwe were doing a prerecorded
online church during thepandemic, okay, and this person
was sharing their struggles ofof drug addiction and we
connected and this person keptcoming every Sunday online, at
(15:49):
least on the chat, and I wouldknow them by name and continue
to check in and say, hey, howare you doing?
How are you doing?
Yeah, when we opened back upabout three months in, this
person showed up to church inperson and I knew his name, he
knew mine.
Um, the connection we hadacross that year was real and
(16:12):
the spirit was there.
Yeah, right, and so, yeah,maybe perhaps we're missing out
on like body language and thosekind of nuances that we can read
when we're in person.
Jeff (16:24):
Right.
James (16:25):
But the spirit moves in different ways in the online
interaction.
I think it just boils down toalways not losing focus on the
mission.
Yeah, but the method willalways change.
Jeff (16:37):
Great, yeah, that's great.
But the method will alwayschange.
Great, that's great.
Any churches?
James (16:48):
actually, before the podcast started, we talked about
a church that you know in Ithink you said North Carolina
that's doing it in a kind ofcreative way yeah, and I'm
totally being an online stalkerwhen I say this, but Checkpoint
Church out in North Carolina,pastor Nathan Webb.
He refers to himself as thenerd pastor.
Jeff (17:02):
Okay.
James (17:03):
And when I think about online church and especially the
language of online community,he speaks it fluently and he
uses platforms like Twitch andDiscord to engage his particular
community and it's reallyexciting to see what they're
doing out there.
So check it out.
(17:24):
Checkpoint Church.
Jeff (17:25):
I will do that.
Hey, we usually end thesepodcasts by asking the person
that we're talking to what hasyou hopeful today?
This is a podcast.
We say it's meet, meet, hope.
It's conversations about faithand hope, and so we like to ask
that question as we close outwhat has you hopeful today,
(17:48):
james?
James (17:49):
You know, during the pandemic there was a lot of fear
of whether the church wouldsurvive, and I remember from the
pulpit, looking at a camera inan empty sanctuary, I would
weekly preach the intangiblehope that the church is the
(18:14):
bride of Christ and the churchwill not only survive but thrive
.
That I held on to sort of this,seemingly like ethereal
eschaton, saying the church willnot only survive but thrive.
Right, the church is the hopeof the world.
So do not worry, do not beafraid.
(18:37):
But it felt very out there andnot tangible Right now, in the
middle of 2023, I see, certainly, unfortunately, there are many
churches, local churches, thathad to close their doors, but
I'm seeing a lot of churchesthat are experiencing
(18:59):
resurrection and I mean it's alot of churches that are saying
we have grown right, we arebigger than we were pre pandemic
.
Right now, that life, givingenergy of the local church has
become quite tangible.
I see it.
It's a, it's a visible realitynow.
(19:21):
So that gives me hope that thelocal church is the hope of the
world and churches continue tobe creative with their methods,
including how can we use onlinetools to serve, to make
disciples and serve the world,and I'm seeing that, so that
Jeff gives me hope and serve theworld and I'm seeing that, so
that Jeff gives me hope.
Jeff (19:40):
Well, that's a great word.
Thanks for that.
Thank you all for tuning in tothis podcast.
There will be notes about thechurch that we heard about.
If you're interested inchecking that out, and if you've
enjoyed this, I just want toencourage you to share it with a
friend.
This is a great way tointroduce somebody to not only
(20:03):
the conversations, but to HopeChurch as well.
So thank you all for taking thetime to listen to this podcast,
and we'll see you soon.
Intro 2 (20:16):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at meethopechurch.
Hello Hope Podcast listeners.
We live in a fast-paced worldwhere new material and ideas are
thrown at you 24-7.
Some of you told us this andsaid I want to listen to
everything, but it's hard tocatch up.
Well, we're here to help.
We desire to be a place that isgrateful for and respectful of
your precious time, and so toserve you best, we will every so
often be resharing pastepisodes that we call Second
(00:22):
Listen, because we think theyare worth taking a second to
replay.
Even if you are an every weeklistener, we think having a
second listen to these episodeswill make an impact on your
weekend life, and if you haveheard this one but are behind on
new episodes, now is a greattime to catch up on any others
you have missed.
Thank you, and here we go you.
Intro 2 (00:49):
And here we go.
Welcome to the Meet Hopepodcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Jeff (01:13):
Hey everybody, welcome to the Meet Hope podcast.
I'm Jeff Bills and I am excitedto be joined today by a
colleague, the Reverend JamesLee.
So, james, welcome, glad tohave you with us.
James (01:31):
Jeff, it's a pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Jeff (01:34):
So James is a pastor, but he is currently working as the
Director of Communications forthe Greater New Jersey Annual
Conference of the UnitedMethodist Church.
I don't know how you fit thaton a business card that sounds
so important and serious.
It really does and scary.
And that's not all.
He also is the same positionfor the Eastern Pennsylvania
(02:00):
Annual Conference.
That is correct.
So big, big job.
I want to talk to you aboutthat in just a moment.
But just so folks get a chanceto learn a little bit about your
real life, tell us aboutyourself.
James (02:15):
Yeah, so once again, thanks for having me on the
podcast.
I'm very excited to be here.
I'm honored.
Thanks for inviting me.
I'm James Lee.
Reverend Lee is my dad, so justcall me James.
So you're a pastor's kid.
I am a pastor's kid, that iscorrect, and I'm married to my
(02:35):
beautiful wife, julie, 11 years,and we have three kids Amy,
adam and Renee.
They're eight, six and three.
Renee is turning four nextmonth.
You're a busy man.
My heart is full.
Yes, absolutely, and yeah, Istarted serving as the director
(02:56):
of communications for twoconferences since October.
Before that, I've been a pastorin different capacities for
about 10 years, so excited to behere.
Jeff (03:06):
Yeah, so you're communications director for an
annual conference, and so that'sfor those of you who are not
Methodist by background, that is, all of the churches in New
Jersey, as well as some churchesin PA, new York.
James (03:23):
Yeah, so there's very few churches in New York, some in
Pennsylvania, about 600 churchesin greater New Jersey and then
about 400 churches in easternPennsylvania.
Jeff (03:35):
Wow so, 1,000 churches.
James (03:37):
Yeah, so that's from Philly to Lancaster is the
eastern Pennsylvania conference.
Yeah, so we do all thingsnewspaper, email marketing,
social media, video productionbasically trying to cultivate
connection, make sure we arereminded that we're all in this
together.
Maybe there are messagingcoming from the bishop that we
(03:59):
would also share Just open,honest conversations across
clergy church leaders.
Just open, honest conversationsacross clergy church leaders.
And ultimately, our mission hasbeen to equip and recruit
transformational leaders,Because when the leader's better
, everyone gets better.
Jeff (04:15):
I love that, I love that.
So you guys, you have a team.
James (04:19):
Yes, we have an editorial manager who oversees the
newspaper.
We have an editorial managerwho oversees the newspaper.
We have a graphic designer, avideo producer, an IT web
specialist and administrativestaff.
So we're a team of six and Ilove them.
They do great work and it'ssuch an honor.
Sometimes I just wonder why I'mthere, Because they do all the
(04:40):
amazing stuff and I just keepencouraging them.
I'm like the officialcheerleader, basically, at this
point.
Jeff (04:47):
So you and I have the same job.
That's right, that's it.
That's it Very cool.
Um, so that's what you do, but,um, what we wanted to talk
about, uh, today, what I wantedto talk with you about today
more specifically, is onlineministry.
So, it's something I know you'reinterested in.
(05:09):
We've been interested in sinceCOVID when we, like every other
church, we had to suddenly getonline somehow and so we started
again like everybody else.
So we had an iPhone on a tripodand just tried to put something
out there.
(05:29):
Yeah, we've come a long waysince then, but what we're
talking about is a ministrythat's online, not just a
worship service.
Correct, absolutely yes.
Talk about that for a second.
James (05:45):
Yeah.
So before I went into full-timeministry, I was a video
producer.
I was a freelance videoproducer.
I would make wedding films, Iwould make commercial films.
I loved being behind the cameraand when I finally accepted the
call to ministry, I packed upmy camera gear and put it in the
closet, so to speak.
(06:06):
I said, lord, I'm here, I'll beobedient to your call to be a
pastor, and my camera gear kindof sat in the back.
Jeff (06:14):
Yeah, yeah.
James (06:14):
Well, I would say pre COVID.
I remember conversations aboutonline church was sort of a
taboo there were a lot ofchurches that didn't like
talking about it.
Back in 2013, I believe andJeff, you may know this better
there was bishops of the UnitedMethodist Church got together
talking about online communionand basically their verdict was
(06:37):
no.
Jeff (06:38):
No, it doesn't.
James (06:39):
And their reasoning behind that was that this is
essentially spiritualconsumerism, that this is not
real church, was essentiallywhat they said in fancy language
.
And me?
I've always been interested intechnology and how it brings us
together and I was always askingthose questions of what does
(07:01):
online communion, what doesonline community look like?
And even before the pandemic Iwas in my particular ministry
context we were having thoseconversations.
Well, interestingly enough,during the pandemic, by May of
2020, 100% of our churches wereonline across greater New Jersey
(07:22):
like 600 plus churches allonline.
These same churches that weresaying no, this is bad, this is
not a good thing.
They were all online and whatit proved, at least, was that
community that is perhapsphysically apart but through
online platforms is possible.
(07:43):
What I am especially interestedin is to go beyond just having
the camera in the back andpressing the live stream button.
The mission of the church is tomake disciples of Jesus Christ
for the transformation of theworld, and I think every church
would have a slightly differentidea of what a disciple might
look like, what it means to liveout the calling of following
(08:04):
Jesus in their context, but inour church we said a disciple is
someone who worships and getsto know God through worship,
grows in faith through smallgroup and serves the world
through mission.
I know here at Hope Church it'sworship plus two.
Right, it's attending worshipsmall group, growing in
accountability in your faith andthen somehow practicing that
(08:26):
faith and serving the world,right, yeah, my question was
that I've been wrestling withwas is that possible only
through online means?
Can a disciple of Christ bemade through online?
And if the answer is yes, whatdoes that look like?
And the pandemic was thegreatest opportunity to explore
(08:48):
that, and in our church, peoplewere worshiping online.
We had online small groups thatwere happening weekly.
In fact, our small groupsreally blew up during the
pandemic.
We had very little small groupsbefore, but now everyone was
part of a small group at thatpoint, looking for that sense of
community because they're onlockdown.
(09:10):
Yes, yes, because they're onlockdown.
Yes, yes, but interestinglyenough, those small groups
naturally were asking what canwe do together Now that we're
together?
They were inspired by the word,inspired by the scriptures that
they were studying and sayingwhat can we do?
In my particular context, therewas a call from a distribution
(09:36):
center near us that wouldsupport about 60 to 100 families
who were in need, and, becauseof the pandemic, a lot of the
resources and volunteersunfortunately just pretty much
hit rock bottom right,disappeared, and so we asked
what can we do?
And they said well, one thingwe do is we provide meals to all
(09:58):
these families.
Can you make sandwiches?
And we said, yeah, we could dothat.
And so the small groups wouldmeet.
I have a video of this.
The small groups would meet onZoom and read the word together
and while they're on Zoom, theywould start packing sandwiches
from their kitchens and theywould coordinate drop-offs and
all these things.
And that grew to then othersocial services in different,
(10:23):
different towns around ourchurch.
We, within the first two weeksexcuse me, within the first two
years of the pandemic, we packeda hundred thousand meals.
Our church of maybe a hundred,150 people that is online church
, right.
A community that worshiped ahundred percent online grew in
(10:44):
their faith and theiraccountability through small
groups and said what can we doto live out our faith and make a
difference in?
Jeff (10:51):
the world.
So it's it's possible to dothat.
The other thing that wediscovered was that, suddenly,
geography no longer mattered.
Yeah, yeah.
We had people who were deeply apart of our community, who
moved to other states out of thearea, who reconnected with us
(11:13):
because they could now onlineand, like you said, not just
showing up on a Sunday for alive stream worship service, but
then getting involved in oursmall groups.
James (11:25):
Yeah, Not to sound like an old school guy, but no danger
of that, james.
But the founder of Methodism,john Wesley, said it best the
world's, my parish yes, andonline ministry lives that out.
Jeff (11:39):
Yeah, so what do you think are the unique challenges to an
online ministry?
James (11:46):
Yeah.
Jeff (11:47):
Because I've got my own sense of that.
James (11:49):
But I'm interested in what of that, but I'm interested
in what Now?
The 2013 or 2014 or so analysisfrom our bishops about the
dangers of spiritual consumerismisn't completely false, right?
So I would argue that evenin-person church right 100% you
(12:11):
could be practicing spiritualconsumerism, but there is
certainly a higher probabilityor tendency for that to be
something that happens.
Another challenge I would sayis a lot of folks try to engage
or cultivate an online communitywith methodologies that work
(12:31):
for in-person community.
That's interesting communitywith methodologies that work for
in-person community.
Oh, that's interesting.
So it would be important tonote that how you live out and
cultivate an online community isa completely different medium.
It's kind of like comparingbooks to TV shows.
You know you wouldn't point acamera to a book as you turn the
pages and call that a TV show.
(12:51):
Many churches, unfortunately,just leave a camera in the back
and press a button and thinkthat's online church and that's
not it.
There are certain nuances.
There's different methods ofstorytelling and engaging in
folks.
Even the language we use is alittle different when we're
engaging with folks online, soit's almost like learning a
(13:11):
different language.
Jeff (13:13):
It's true, and I um, we've been, you know, kind of
figuring that out as we go along.
You know what works onlineversus what works in the room,
and we do a hybrid thing.
So we have, uh, our serviceshappening live in a room, but
we're also live streaming andthat's being saved so people can
(13:35):
watch it later.
And how do you communicate withboth of those audiences?
James (13:42):
Yeah, and different people will interact differently
, and at least how the church islived out today.
I think it is a hybrid approach.
So I think about how I interact, let's say, with my wife I I I
was just texting her before westarted this podcast right.
(14:03):
We're using technology tocommunicate back and forth and
connect, sure, but I'm alsolooking forward to going home
tonight and having dinner withmy family in person, right, so
so?
Jeff (14:16):
So both and not either.
James (14:18):
I think the both and is going to be more prevalent.
Yeah, although there arerelationships that happen solely
online.
So, for instance, there is aperson that I built a friendship
over church communications.
This person is a director ofcommunications of a large church
(14:40):
out in Oklahoma.
Okay, and I've never met her inperson, right, but through
email, chat, zoom calls, we haveconnected and we challenge each
other, grow together.
You wouldn't say thatrelationship is not real.
Nope, no, that is.
I would consider her a closefriend, right.
(15:02):
So that's the way.
So there are, and technology isonly going to get better.
So, you know, I continue todabble in, like in VR and meta,
and I don't think we're quitethere yet, but the relationships
we have online and theinteractions are real and the
(15:24):
spirit is there.
Intro 1 (15:25):
Yeah.
James (15:27):
There was one person I won't say say their name per se,
but they were on the chat whenwe were doing a prerecorded
online church during thepandemic, okay, and this person
was sharing their struggles ofof drug addiction and we
connected and this person keptcoming every Sunday online, at
(15:49):
least on the chat, and I wouldknow them by name and continue
to check in and say, hey, howare you doing?
How are you doing?
Yeah, when we opened back upabout three months in, this
person showed up to church inperson and I knew his name, he
knew mine.
Um, the connection we hadacross that year was real and
(16:12):
the spirit was there.
Yeah, right, and so, yeah,maybe perhaps we're missing out
on like body language and thosekind of nuances that we can read
when we're in person.
Jeff (16:24):
Right.
James (16:25):
But the spirit moves in different ways in the online
interaction.
I think it just boils down toalways not losing focus on the
mission.
Yeah, but the method willalways change.
Jeff (16:37):
Great, yeah, that's great.
But the method will alwayschange.
Great, that's great.
Any churches?
James (16:48):
actually, before the podcast started, we talked about
a church that you know in Ithink you said North Carolina
that's doing it in a kind ofcreative way yeah, and I'm
totally being an online stalkerwhen I say this, but Checkpoint
Church out in North Carolina,pastor Nathan Webb.
He refers to himself as thenerd pastor.
Jeff (17:02):
Okay.
James (17:03):
And when I think about online church and especially the
language of online community,he speaks it fluently and he
uses platforms like Twitch andDiscord to engage his particular
community and it's reallyexciting to see what they're
doing out there.
So check it out.
(17:24):
Checkpoint Church.
Jeff (17:25):
I will do that.
Hey, we usually end thesepodcasts by asking the person
that we're talking to what hasyou hopeful today?
This is a podcast.
We say it's meet, meet, hope.
It's conversations about faithand hope, and so we like to ask
that question as we close outwhat has you hopeful today,
(17:48):
james?
James (17:49):
You know, during the pandemic there was a lot of fear
of whether the church wouldsurvive, and I remember from the
pulpit, looking at a camera inan empty sanctuary, I would
weekly preach the intangiblehope that the church is the
(18:14):
bride of Christ and the churchwill not only survive but thrive
.
That I held on to sort of this,seemingly like ethereal
eschaton, saying the church willnot only survive but thrive.
Right, the church is the hopeof the world.
So do not worry, do not beafraid.
(18:37):
But it felt very out there andnot tangible Right now, in the
middle of 2023, I see, certainly, unfortunately, there are many
churches, local churches, thathad to close their doors, but
I'm seeing a lot of churchesthat are experiencing
(18:59):
resurrection and I mean it's alot of churches that are saying
we have grown right, we arebigger than we were pre pandemic
.
Right now, that life, givingenergy of the local church has
become quite tangible.
I see it.
It's a, it's a visible realitynow.
(19:21):
So that gives me hope that thelocal church is the hope of the
world and churches continue tobe creative with their methods,
including how can we use onlinetools to serve, to make
disciples and serve the world,and I'm seeing that, so that
Jeff gives me hope and serve theworld and I'm seeing that, so
that Jeff gives me hope.
Jeff (19:40):
Well, that's a great word.
Thanks for that.
Thank you all for tuning in tothis podcast.
There will be notes about thechurch that we heard about.
If you're interested inchecking that out, and if you've
enjoyed this, I just want toencourage you to share it with a
friend.
This is a great way tointroduce somebody to not only
(20:03):
the conversations, but to HopeChurch as well.
So thank you all for taking thetime to listen to this podcast,
and we'll see you soon.
Intro 2 (20:16):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversations aboutfaith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at meethopechurch.
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