September 8, 2025 • 26 mins
We hope you enjoy this second listen of this episode that originally aired in February of 2024! Find all the links they talk about at meethope.org/today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello Hope Podcast listeners.
We live in a fast-paced worldwhere new material and ideas are
thrown at you 24-7.
Some of you told us this andsaid I want to listen to
everything, but it's hard tocatch up.
Well, we're here to help.
We desire to be a place that isgrateful for and respectful of
your precious time, and so toserve you best, we will every so
often be resharing pastepisodes that we call Second
(00:22):
Listen, because we think theyare worth taking a second to
replay.
Even if you are an every weeklistener, we think having a
second listen to these episodeswill make an impact on your
weekend life, and if you haveheard this one but are behind on
new episodes, now is a greattime to catch up on any others
you have missed.
Thank you, and here we go you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And here we go.
Welcome to the Meet Hopepodcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the Meet Hopepodcast.
My name is Andrew, I am theWorship Arts Director here at
Hope and I am so happy to havemy brother, Chris Paluzak, here
with me.
Chris is one of the volunteerworship leaders at Hope.
Man, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Thank you, I'm very flattered to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We are honored to have you truly.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
Sure, spell your last name forus.
Okay, never mind, yeah, tell usa little bit about you.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That was a great question.
Yeah, so I'm Chris Paluzak.
I live with my wife, caitlin,and our four boys, who are a
delight.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Can you name all four of them,you can say that Sean, Josh,
Oliver and Graham, Our dogBrinkley and our cat Nana, Nice,
(02:03):
and we live right here inVoorhees.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, very cool.
Well, today, we're kind oftalking about a couple things
today, but first just want toget to know a little bit about
your story and how you got towhere you are today.
You are a brilliant worshipleader, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I don't know if I tell you that.
Enough, that's kind.
Thank you, you're welcome, butI just so just wanted to be able
to talk to you a little bitabout your story and how you
view worship in your everydaylife, because I know you and I
talk about.
You know worship is anextension of our lives.
So, yeah, start from reallywherever you want.
But you know what about you?
How did you get?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
to where you are today.
Sure, I mean, I think it's atleast for myself.
When I look back, it's reallyinteresting because it starts
very early.
It starts at about four yearsold and my dad was in a what you
would look at now as a worshipband, a traveling worship band,
(02:56):
but back then they didn't reallyhave them right Churches were
still doing the choir and thehymns and he was in a band
called new creation and, uh,they would travel around and do
worship on Sundays.
Um, and from the time I wasfrom four maybe to about nine or
10 years old, I went along withhim.
(03:17):
Um, when I was four, my parentsgot me a drum set for Christmas
.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, a lot, a lot of people don't know this because
you, you are a drummer at first.
Yeah, I'm trained yeah, yeah,which is one of my.
I didn't know that right awaywhen we first met, and then you
went to school for a drummer,right?
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yeah, I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in
Performance from Kutztown,studied under Will Rapp and,
yeah, I got my percussion degree.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So was music for you always like an expression of who
you are.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah, very much so, I think the older I got it kind
of changed, but it was alwaysmost definitely a way to express
myself yeah, yeah, even fromearly on Nice.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Very cool.
So then, how did you sort ofcome into your relationship with
God?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Yeah, so my dad did that and that was great because
I love that music.
They were doing things from theImperials and Dallas Home and
it was just during a time AmyGrant's Age to Age album had
just come out.
So she young.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, yeah it was really 82.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
And Michael W Smith's project album came out, and so
that was really kind of my firstexperience to Christian music.
But you know my mom was a hugeinfluence in my life with
secular music and she used tolisten to the radio all the time
and that was just really great.
But really my big sister wasprobably a major influence in my
(04:48):
life and we have an agedifference of eight years, so it
was great because she would bein her bedroom listening to the
radio and she just kind of hadme in there and I would just be
with drumsticks, pounding onpillows all the time.
Uh, you know.
So I got some background there,um, and then when I was 12, I
(05:09):
started playing guitar.
Um, my dad was a classicalguitar player, you know, along
with with you know kind of thecontemporary Christian music.
Um, so there was guitars layingaround the house, so I just
pick some guitars up and foolaround with them and then
eventually that called on and Ihad always was singing school
(05:29):
plays, you know that kind ofthing.
So I went to college, I got mymusic degree.
While I was in college I metsome guys and we wanted to start
a band.
So we started a secular rockband Nice and we did a lot.
And we did our own a band.
So we started a secular rockband Nice and we did a lot and
we did our own stuff along withcovers.
We recorded an EP and that wasreally, when I look back now,
(05:56):
that was really interesting tosee how kind of the faith path
played through all of that, torealize that was in my 20s and
life wasn't really that greatback then.
So a lot of the writing in thesongs I look back on are cries
out to God, really leaning onGod, really asking some hard
(06:25):
questions and that kind of.
You know, we did an EP that kindof fell apart and then I didn't
know what God wanted me to doat all.
I went through a really hardtime in my late twenties and
just didn't know where the Lordwanted me.
So, things being things, I kindof just left that area, just
left music in general, left thechurch.
(06:45):
There were some things thathappened in the church that I
wasn't happy with.
So, you know, I kind of justmoved out of everything of my
life and I guess what you couldsay is I just wanted to be
normal for a little bit, if thatmakes sense.
Yeah, no, I do get that and Iended up meeting Caitlin and I
(07:08):
moved to Philadelphia and we gotmarried and we started a family
and while she was pregnant withour twins, which are our
youngest, she really wanted tofind a church that had a lot of
youth, where the kids could beraised.
We tried a lot of differentchurches I'm not a real church
(07:31):
person and we came to Hope andwe loved Hope.
Yeah, and I never thought aboutmusic at all and we were
sitting in service.
One day she looked over at meand she said I think God wants
you up there and I was like Idon't think you're right.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Um.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I don't think I should be doing that, I don't
want to go anywhere near that.
You know, I just that's not me,I don't want that anymore.
Um, and then every week we'dcome in and she'd say you know
what I really think?
You know, god wants you doingthat.
I think you should do that.
So that was.
We started coming here inNovember and then by April she
(08:15):
had kept saying it and was verydiligent and finally, you know,
I said fine, I'll talk to Steve,who was the worship pastor at
the time.
And finally, you know, I saidfine, I'll, I'll, I'll talk to
Steve, who was the worshippastor at the time, and we
talked.
It was a great conversation andI ended up coming on and
playing drums Nice.
And you know, it's kind ofinteresting to watch that full
(08:37):
spectrum, from going all the wayback to four, being with my dad
through his time going into thesecular world, going through
that, having the bottom kind ofdrop out of that, going into
nothing, and then coming back tothe church.
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I mean I ask this question or I think about this a
lot because I did the secularband thing for a little bit too,
and somebody, every once in awhile, someone will ask me, like
what's the difference betweenlike secular music and and
worship music?
Because I think it's not as farapart as I think some people do
, especially like if you listento, if you listen to some of
like you two's stuff I meanthat's very highly spiritual
(09:18):
questions and, um, but like foryou, what if, thinking about
your secular band days and yourworship, like, what is, what's
the difference for you in that?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Well, I mean, there was a different reason for doing
it right.
Like, I think that's that's thebiggest thing that comes out.
Is um playing secular music?
You're not, or at least Iwasn't really thinking about an
act of praise.
Um, you know, it was more forthe art of it than than anything
else.
Um, and I think that for me, isthe biggest difference, where
(09:56):
worship music is more like jazzto me, where, when we do worship
music, every time that we'redoing it, my soul is searching
for the truth, and it's one ofthe reasons why I love that we
do live stuff on a Sunday, right, like we prep during the week
but then Sunday morning, however, the Holy Spirit moves us and
(10:19):
you know, that is a really greatway for me to be searching for
the truth, with the Lord leading.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
So then, when did in your story?
So you're playing drums?
How did you go from playingdrums to being, I mean, one of
the handful of volunteer worshipleaders?
Like that's a.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, that's interesting.
So I think Steve knew that Iplayed guitar and I sang and I
started in the worship team as adrummer and then it wasn't long
after that.
I think I started in June andthen by the following fall or
even winter I can't rememberquite when Hope started Mount
(10:58):
Laurel campus.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And we were really stretched for worship artists.
So I remember Lonnie Mitchell,who was the worship leader at
Mount Laurel, saying would youcome up and maybe do a week at
Mount Laurel and play guitar andsing, yeah?
And I was like, oh yeah, I cando that, sure, no problem.
(11:23):
So that's kind of that was theshift.
And then Mount Laurel too, was,if Lonnie couldn't make it, it
ended up sometimes just being meand Susie up there.
Yeah, so there was kind of thatslow transition into what do you
think you learned aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Because being a worship leader is a weird thing,
because when you are leadingworship, you are leading In some
ways, you're leading the band.
I mean, sometimes there's adifference sometimes between a
worship leader and a musicdirector and we kind of blur the
lines there and those are kindof inside terms.
But you're kind of facilitatingthis worship experience along
with a bunch of inside terms.
But you're you're kind offacilitating this worship
experience along with a bunch ofother people, but you're also
(12:00):
inviting people into worship.
So, like what was the processlike for you?
Kind of?
I mean, it seems like you werekind of just thrown to the
wolves and said figure it out.
I mean, I'm sure you got.
You got, you know, walkedalongside by other people, with
Steve and Lonnie, I'm sure, butlike what was that like to kind
of figure out like what it meansto be a worship leader and how
(12:20):
is that different than justleading a band and a bar?
You know, because there's bigdifferences but also big
similarities.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah, Well, you know, I had grown up in the church,
so I had a background of whatcorporate worship was.
I had a background of whatcorporate worship was.
Yeah, and you know, if you loveJesus and you get in a room
full of Jesus people, the HolySpirit does amazing things.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
And you know you can't help but be there in a
worship posture, right?
So you know, you and I alwaysagree about this external
adoration of of God.
Yeah and um, you figured that,I think for me, anyway, like I
figured that out really quickly,right, like that's, you know it
(13:09):
wasn't, it's not a show, like Iknew I wasn't there to I'm not,
I'm not performing, you know,um, I'm not there so people can
hear me sing a song.
We're there to praise the Lord,right Like this is corporate
worship's amazing, right Likeit's just the coolest thing.
And I think that's the partthat makes it different than
(13:31):
saying okay, well again, youknow, I'm out in the secular
thing and I'm leading a band.
Okay, well again, I'm out inthe secular thing and I'm
leading a band.
And I agree with you that thereare parts that are very similar
to this because we do have tomake sure we're hitting the
correct mood of the music andwe're hitting, telling a story,
and yeah.
Yeah, but there's also thisvery spiritual part that it's
(13:52):
just not about us and it's socool yeah, the simplest way I've
ever heard it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And I've stolen it and made it my own, not about us
and it's so cool.
Yeah, the simplest way I'veever heard it and I've stolen it
and made it my own many timesover, and I'm sure I've said it
to you in the past is thedifference between performance
and worship is where theadoration goes.
If I'm performing, it's hey,everybody, look at me.
And if I'm worshiping and I'mleading worship, it's hey,
everybody, look at God One.
If I'm worshiping and I'mleading worship, it's hey
(14:16):
everybody.
Look at God.
One of the first and I'mdefinitely I'm sure I've told
this story on the podcast before, and we talk about a lot about
remembering to duck.
It was something that was likeone of my first weeks here.
I said don't forget to duck,no-transcript.
(14:41):
And I think that for me and Ithink you do this so wonderfully
that is the essence of being aworship leader is remembering to
shine the light on Jesus and tobe this conduit for him.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Well, thanks.
I think that's very kind of youand and you know, I also don't
want people to to to feel likechurch is this thing you do
right, like it's Sunday, we gotto go to church, we go to church
, we do three songs, we listento a message Jeff says and
everybody says amen, and then weall go home.
To me, it's not about that.
(15:18):
We're coming together as acongregation to praise the Lord,
which is amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I think modern churches have pigeonholed
worship and I don't think theydo it on purpose to music and
preaching and singing.
I don't think they do onpurpose to like music and
preaching, right, but like andsinging, you know, sometimes
I'll even find the pastor sayingyou know the words that we sing
and like?
That's one part of it, but alsothe posture that we take and
the actions that we do while weworship him.
Like that is, and there's Imean there's biblical references
(15:49):
for that.
And David, he was a very.
he was a character, but he, youknow, he was a very physical, or
but he was a very physicalworship leader Dancing in front
of the ark.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Absolutely so.
How would you say so?
You kind of have this worshipthing that you've sort of come
onto the past several years.
What does that look like inyour day-to-day life?
Because worship, I mean, we arejust corporate worship is just
one part of our worshipexperience.
So when we come together onSunday mornings, corporate
worship, that's a group of uscoming together, singing
(16:19):
together, praising together.
But what does worship?
What does your worship looklike as an extension of your
life, meaning, in your world,when you're at work?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I think I think the biggest thing in my life to this
point was understanding thatthis portion of my journey with
the Lord is very short on earth.
You know, of course it's humanto get attached to earthly
things.
Right, it really is.
But I saw on a I don't know ifit was Instagram or something
(16:55):
and we've and you and I havetalked about this before, but
there was a gentleman speakingabout this and he had a rope and
the rope like went down and outthe room and you know, it was
400, 500 feet of rope and therewas maybe an inch of it that was
red at the tip and he said thisinch represents your time on
earth and this rope is your timewith God.
Yeah, and I love that and Ialways try to remember that
(17:18):
throughout my day, to kind oftry to remember God has me here
for some reason.
I'm not exactly sure what thatis, but I'm here because of God.
Yeah, I'm here because of theLord and, um, and I want to try
to live my life in the image ofChrist, right, like I want to
(17:40):
try to do.
Like you know, I read theGospels and I've read them many
times and I'm still blown awayby the person Christ was.
I mean, it's just mind-blowingto me.
So, you know, like, as wealways say, hope you know,
conform to.
You know, in the image of Christfor the sake of others, and to
(18:00):
really try to do that can bechallenging, but if I use that
as a whole as a guidance, thenthat's kind of how I bring that
into everyday life right.
Like, I think sometimes formyself I get too worried about
things that aren't going tomatter tomorrow, you know, or
you know things that aren'tgoing to matter in a year from
(18:21):
now.
Why am I worried about thatkind of thing?
And I think really that's kindof the Lord settles into that
and it's like stop, knock it off.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I love the way you talk about worship and in the
conversations we have it's avery active thing on Sunday
mornings but also in, you know,in our life, and we kind of you
had talked about this sort offollowing the spirit you had
talked about that a few minutesago that like and then we talked
(18:50):
a lot about it in the worshipteam that we need to listen to
each other and also listen tothe Holy spirit, and the Holy
spirit is sort of our guide, andwhen we tap into that, we're
kind of we're tapped into thespirit.
We do things that are greaterthan we could have accomplished
on our own, and I think that,like it's a great parallel for,
like what?
How we lead our lives, Like,can I see how you are a father
(19:11):
to your kids?
Then I think that, like theyare crazy.
I love them, but they're not.
You're being kind, yeah, but Ithink that I see a patience in
you that is otherworldly and tosee a patience and that it
transcends this understanding of, like you said a few minutes
(19:32):
ago, things don't matter in thegrand scheme of things.
What matters is my relationshipwith God and what I'm doing.
So are there things that youwould say that in your faith
journey and I know you only toldus a small portion of it, I
know it's much longer that, asit relates to your time in music
and your time that you reallytake with you daily, I think
(19:55):
that for me, the act ofpracticing and the act of um
preparation is something that,like, I'm so much better at that
as a musician than I am in anyother avenue in my life, and I'm
it's this thing that, like Iknow, god instilled this gift in
me of music, um, and I need to,I need to my diligence that I
take with that, I need to showin the rest of my life.
(20:16):
So are there things like thatthat you've learned in your
faith and music journey, knowingthat they're so intertwined,
but, like what are the thingsthat you've learned about
yourself or about you knowwhatever that shapes who you are
today as the man of God thatyou are?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Yeah, there's a lot in there, but, you know, it's
always interesting when we getinto talking about the act of
worship and the preparation forthat.
And you know, what I will sayis that one of the things that
really profoundly hit me was,you know, my mom passed away 16
(20:54):
or 17 years ago from cancer.
But before she did, she said tome no matter where you're
playing, no matter who you'replaying in front of, remember
that you're always playing to aking.
And you know, I know that thatsounds like an audience of one,
right, but it was before thatwhich was really cool when she
(21:17):
said that to me and that kind ofalways made sense to me.
So, you know, preparation foreverything in your life is
important, right, you know, andwe all do it a little bit better
at times than others, andthat's okay because we're humans
, you know.
I think that having that kindof guidance in my life is what I
(21:43):
try to achieve.
So I don't know if that answersyour question.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
No, I think it's a great answer and yeah, I just
think that playing we talk aboutthis all the time that like our
rehearsal.
So we have a Thursday nightrehearsal I'm sure most many
people may not know that and sowe rehearse Thursdays from like
7, 15 to 9 o'clock and our bestrehearsals are the least
(22:07):
technical meaning.
It's the we are worshipingthrough the figuring it out, and
I always know, almost alwaysknow, that we're going to have a
good Sunday when those services, when those rehearsals, are
very spirit-filled and we're notgetting dogged up on.
Well, you know, you said thiswas on four, not on, you know
stuff like that.
Yeah, that can be challenging,yeah, and I think that that's
(22:29):
just this.
I think that speaks tosomething deeper.
Is that, like, when your eyesare fixed on Jesus, your
priorities are a little bitdifferent.
Eyes are fixed on Jesus, yourpriorities are a little bit
different.
And I think sometimes and weall fall victim to it, cause,
again, like you said, we're notperfect that, um, we, we get
(22:50):
caught up in our own stuff andthinking, you know, I need to
have my ducks in a row, or if Idon't have my, you know.
But like, yeah, our bestrehearsals are always the ones
where there's just a, there'sjust a little bit more
worshipfulness than there's, um,technical figuring things out.
Like, I feel like we get in theweeds sometimes and I think
that's a great example in life,that when we do get in the weeds
and stuff, then we lose the whowe are playing to an audience
(23:12):
of or who we're living for.
I think that's yeah, because Ithink that goes.
You don't have to be aninstrument, you don't have to be
be a musician to play for anaudience of one or to play for
the king.
Well, you know.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I also think too, one of the great messages the Bible
gives us is to notovercomplicate things.
At least, jesus, I mean.
You look at the parables right.
Like it's just.
Things don't have to be supercomplicated, to have
explanations, and I feel likeour worship Sundays can be like
that too, like, okay, guys, when, when are we getting into
(23:45):
technical things that are nowtaking away from the preparation
?
Or, and like you said, thingshave to be be good because we
want to create a good experiencefor the congregation.
But at the same time it's likeall right is.
Is this now starting?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
to take away Whenever we get to the point where we're
like well, is this in 6.8 or12.4 or you know like, and it's
okay.
But what do we feel in thismoment?
What's the best way to presentthis?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Absolutely A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I agree.
And I think that that's abeautiful extension of our lives
that sometimes we get caught upin the dumb details of things
not dumb, you know what I mean.
Yeah yeah.
That we forget why we're doingwhat we're doing.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, absolutely, and I mean it's easy to do and it's
easy to do with a worship teamlike we have, because we're, you
know, thankfully we're blessedand we're bigger.
Yeah, we have more equipment,you know, so you can get bogged
down into some of those thingsyou know, so you can get bogged
down into some of those things.
But I also think that's the jobof the worship leader or the
(24:41):
music director on thoserehearsals to kind of pull the
group back and say, all right,look, I understand what you're
saying, but let's refocus backnow and see if we can do this.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
But yeah, just any final thoughts you have for our
friends that are listening rightnow.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
No I mean I just would hope that people are
getting an experience where theycan really see the love that
Christ has for them, and I hopethat's what we do and that's
what we pray about every week totry to do so yeah, thanks,
brother.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Thanks so much for hopping on today.
Um, and thank you everybody forlistening.
Um, please invite friends sharethis podcast with um people
that might be interested.
Uh, we these come out everyweek.
Um, and if you want to knowmore information about the
podcast or have questions,please reach out to a podcast at
meethopeorg and ma'am.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversationsabout faith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at Meet Hope Church.
Hello Hope Podcast listeners.
We live in a fast-paced worldwhere new material and ideas are
thrown at you 24-7.
Some of you told us this andsaid I want to listen to
everything, but it's hard tocatch up.
Well, we're here to help.
We desire to be a place that isgrateful for and respectful of
your precious time, and so toserve you best, we will every so
often be resharing pastepisodes that we call Second
(00:22):
Listen, because we think theyare worth taking a second to
replay.
Even if you are an every weeklistener, we think having a
second listen to these episodeswill make an impact on your
weekend life, and if you haveheard this one but are behind on
new episodes, now is a greattime to catch up on any others
you have missed.
Thank you, and here we go you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And here we go.
Welcome to the Meet Hopepodcast, where we have
conversations about faith andhope.
Hope is one church made ofpeople living out their faith
through two expressions inperson and online.
We believe a hybrid faithexperience can lead to a growing
influence in our community andour world for the sake of others
.
Welcome to Hope.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Well, hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the Meet Hopepodcast.
My name is Andrew, I am theWorship Arts Director here at
Hope and I am so happy to havemy brother, Chris Paluzak, here
with me.
Chris is one of the volunteerworship leaders at Hope.
Man, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Thank you, I'm very flattered to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
We are honored to have you truly.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?
Sure, spell your last name forus.
Okay, never mind, yeah, tell usa little bit about you.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
That was a great question.
Yeah, so I'm Chris Paluzak.
I live with my wife, caitlin,and our four boys, who are a
delight.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Can you name all four of them,you can say that Sean, Josh,
Oliver and Graham, Our dogBrinkley and our cat Nana, Nice,
(02:03):
and we live right here inVoorhees.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, very cool.
Well, today, we're kind oftalking about a couple things
today, but first just want toget to know a little bit about
your story and how you got towhere you are today.
You are a brilliant worshipleader, my friend.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I don't know if I tell you that.
Enough, that's kind.
Thank you, you're welcome, butI just so just wanted to be able
to talk to you a little bitabout your story and how you
view worship in your everydaylife, because I know you and I
talk about.
You know worship is anextension of our lives.
So, yeah, start from reallywherever you want.
But you know what about you?
How did you get?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
to where you are today.
Sure, I mean, I think it's atleast for myself.
When I look back, it's reallyinteresting because it starts
very early.
It starts at about four yearsold and my dad was in a what you
would look at now as a worshipband, a traveling worship band,
(02:56):
but back then they didn't reallyhave them right Churches were
still doing the choir and thehymns and he was in a band
called new creation and, uh,they would travel around and do
worship on Sundays.
Um, and from the time I wasfrom four maybe to about nine or
10 years old, I went along withhim.
(03:17):
Um, when I was four, my parentsgot me a drum set for Christmas
.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, a lot, a lot of people don't know this because
you, you are a drummer at first.
Yeah, I'm trained yeah, yeah,which is one of my.
I didn't know that right awaywhen we first met, and then you
went to school for a drummer,right?
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yeah, I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in
Performance from Kutztown,studied under Will Rapp and,
yeah, I got my percussion degree.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
So was music for you always like an expression of who
you are.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Yeah, very much so, I think the older I got it kind
of changed, but it was alwaysmost definitely a way to express
myself yeah, yeah, even fromearly on Nice.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Very cool.
So then, how did you sort ofcome into your relationship with
God?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Yeah, so my dad did that and that was great because
I love that music.
They were doing things from theImperials and Dallas Home and
it was just during a time AmyGrant's Age to Age album had
just come out.
So she young.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, yeah it was really 82.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
And Michael W Smith's project album came out, and so
that was really kind of my firstexperience to Christian music.
But you know my mom was a hugeinfluence in my life with
secular music and she used tolisten to the radio all the time
and that was just really great.
But really my big sister wasprobably a major influence in my
(04:48):
life and we have an agedifference of eight years, so it
was great because she would bein her bedroom listening to the
radio and she just kind of hadme in there and I would just be
with drumsticks, pounding onpillows all the time.
Uh, you know.
So I got some background there,um, and then when I was 12, I
(05:09):
started playing guitar.
Um, my dad was a classicalguitar player, you know, along
with with you know kind of thecontemporary Christian music.
Um, so there was guitars layingaround the house, so I just
pick some guitars up and foolaround with them and then
eventually that called on and Ihad always was singing school
(05:29):
plays, you know that kind ofthing.
So I went to college, I got mymusic degree.
While I was in college I metsome guys and we wanted to start
a band.
So we started a secular rockband Nice and we did a lot.
And we did our own a band.
So we started a secular rockband Nice and we did a lot and
we did our own stuff along withcovers.
We recorded an EP and that wasreally, when I look back now,
(05:56):
that was really interesting tosee how kind of the faith path
played through all of that, torealize that was in my 20s and
life wasn't really that greatback then.
So a lot of the writing in thesongs I look back on are cries
out to God, really leaning onGod, really asking some hard
(06:25):
questions and that kind of.
You know, we did an EP that kindof fell apart and then I didn't
know what God wanted me to doat all.
I went through a really hardtime in my late twenties and
just didn't know where the Lordwanted me.
So, things being things, I kindof just left that area, just
left music in general, left thechurch.
(06:45):
There were some things thathappened in the church that I
wasn't happy with.
So, you know, I kind of justmoved out of everything of my
life and I guess what you couldsay is I just wanted to be
normal for a little bit, if thatmakes sense.
Yeah, no, I do get that and Iended up meeting Caitlin and I
(07:08):
moved to Philadelphia and we gotmarried and we started a family
and while she was pregnant withour twins, which are our
youngest, she really wanted tofind a church that had a lot of
youth, where the kids could beraised.
We tried a lot of differentchurches I'm not a real church
(07:31):
person and we came to Hope andwe loved Hope.
Yeah, and I never thought aboutmusic at all and we were
sitting in service.
One day she looked over at meand she said I think God wants
you up there and I was like Idon't think you're right.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Um.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I don't think I should be doing that, I don't
want to go anywhere near that.
You know, I just that's not me,I don't want that anymore.
Um, and then every week we'dcome in and she'd say you know
what I really think?
You know, god wants you doingthat.
I think you should do that.
So that was.
We started coming here inNovember and then by April she
(08:15):
had kept saying it and was verydiligent and finally, you know,
I said fine, I'll talk to Steve,who was the worship pastor at
the time.
And finally, you know, I saidfine, I'll, I'll, I'll talk to
Steve, who was the worshippastor at the time, and we
talked.
It was a great conversation andI ended up coming on and
playing drums Nice.
And you know, it's kind ofinteresting to watch that full
(08:37):
spectrum, from going all the wayback to four, being with my dad
through his time going into thesecular world, going through
that, having the bottom kind ofdrop out of that, going into
nothing, and then coming back tothe church.
That's cool.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
I mean I ask this question or I think about this a
lot because I did the secularband thing for a little bit too,
and somebody, every once in awhile, someone will ask me, like
what's the difference betweenlike secular music and and
worship music?
Because I think it's not as farapart as I think some people do
, especially like if you listento, if you listen to some of
like you two's stuff I meanthat's very highly spiritual
(09:18):
questions and, um, but like foryou, what if, thinking about
your secular band days and yourworship, like, what is, what's
the difference for you in that?
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Well, I mean, there was a different reason for doing
it right.
Like, I think that's that's thebiggest thing that comes out.
Is um playing secular music?
You're not, or at least Iwasn't really thinking about an
act of praise.
Um, you know, it was more forthe art of it than than anything
else.
Um, and I think that for me, isthe biggest difference, where
(09:56):
worship music is more like jazzto me, where, when we do worship
music, every time that we'redoing it, my soul is searching
for the truth, and it's one ofthe reasons why I love that we
do live stuff on a Sunday, right, like we prep during the week
but then Sunday morning, however, the Holy Spirit moves us and
(10:19):
you know, that is a really greatway for me to be searching for
the truth, with the Lord leading.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
So then, when did in your story?
So you're playing drums?
How did you go from playingdrums to being, I mean, one of
the handful of volunteer worshipleaders?
Like that's a.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, that's interesting.
So I think Steve knew that Iplayed guitar and I sang and I
started in the worship team as adrummer and then it wasn't long
after that.
I think I started in June andthen by the following fall or
even winter I can't rememberquite when Hope started Mount
(10:58):
Laurel campus.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
And we were really stretched for worship artists.
So I remember Lonnie Mitchell,who was the worship leader at
Mount Laurel, saying would youcome up and maybe do a week at
Mount Laurel and play guitar andsing, yeah?
And I was like, oh yeah, I cando that, sure, no problem.
(11:23):
So that's kind of that was theshift.
And then Mount Laurel too, was,if Lonnie couldn't make it, it
ended up sometimes just being meand Susie up there.
Yeah, so there was kind of thatslow transition into what do you
think you learned aboutyourself?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Because being a worship leader is a weird thing,
because when you are leadingworship, you are leading In some
ways, you're leading the band.
I mean, sometimes there's adifference sometimes between a
worship leader and a musicdirector and we kind of blur the
lines there and those are kindof inside terms.
But you're kind of facilitatingthis worship experience along
with a bunch of inside terms.
But you're you're kind offacilitating this worship
experience along with a bunch ofother people, but you're also
(12:00):
inviting people into worship.
So, like what was the processlike for you?
Kind of?
I mean, it seems like you werekind of just thrown to the
wolves and said figure it out.
I mean, I'm sure you got.
You got, you know, walkedalongside by other people, with
Steve and Lonnie, I'm sure, butlike what was that like to kind
of figure out like what it meansto be a worship leader and how
(12:20):
is that different than justleading a band and a bar?
You know, because there's bigdifferences but also big
similarities.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah, Well, you know, I had grown up in the church,
so I had a background of whatcorporate worship was.
I had a background of whatcorporate worship was.
Yeah, and you know, if you loveJesus and you get in a room
full of Jesus people, the HolySpirit does amazing things.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
And you know you can't help but be there in a
worship posture, right?
So you know, you and I alwaysagree about this external
adoration of of God.
Yeah and um, you figured that,I think for me, anyway, like I
figured that out really quickly,right, like that's, you know it
(13:09):
wasn't, it's not a show, like Iknew I wasn't there to I'm not,
I'm not performing, you know,um, I'm not there so people can
hear me sing a song.
We're there to praise the Lord,right Like this is corporate
worship's amazing, right Likeit's just the coolest thing.
And I think that's the partthat makes it different than
(13:31):
saying okay, well again, youknow, I'm out in the secular
thing and I'm leading a band.
Okay, well again, I'm out inthe secular thing and I'm
leading a band.
And I agree with you that thereare parts that are very similar
to this because we do have tomake sure we're hitting the
correct mood of the music andwe're hitting, telling a story,
and yeah.
Yeah, but there's also thisvery spiritual part that it's
(13:52):
just not about us and it's socool yeah, the simplest way I've
ever heard it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And I've stolen it and made it my own, not about us
and it's so cool.
Yeah, the simplest way I'veever heard it and I've stolen it
and made it my own many timesover, and I'm sure I've said it
to you in the past is thedifference between performance
and worship is where theadoration goes.
If I'm performing, it's hey,everybody, look at me.
And if I'm worshiping and I'mleading worship, it's hey,
everybody, look at God One.
If I'm worshiping and I'mleading worship, it's hey
(14:16):
everybody.
Look at God.
One of the first and I'mdefinitely I'm sure I've told
this story on the podcast before, and we talk about a lot about
remembering to duck.
It was something that was likeone of my first weeks here.
I said don't forget to duck,no-transcript.
(14:41):
And I think that for me and Ithink you do this so wonderfully
that is the essence of being aworship leader is remembering to
shine the light on Jesus and tobe this conduit for him.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Well, thanks.
I think that's very kind of youand and you know, I also don't
want people to to to feel likechurch is this thing you do
right, like it's Sunday, we gotto go to church, we go to church
, we do three songs, we listento a message Jeff says and
everybody says amen, and then weall go home.
To me, it's not about that.
(15:18):
We're coming together as acongregation to praise the Lord,
which is amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I think modern churches have pigeonholed
worship and I don't think theydo it on purpose to music and
preaching and singing.
I don't think they do onpurpose to like music and
preaching, right, but like andsinging, you know, sometimes
I'll even find the pastor sayingyou know the words that we sing
and like?
That's one part of it, but alsothe posture that we take and
the actions that we do while weworship him.
Like that is, and there's Imean there's biblical references
(15:49):
for that.
And David, he was a very.
he was a character, but he, youknow, he was a very physical, or
but he was a very physicalworship leader Dancing in front
of the ark.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Absolutely so.
How would you say so?
You kind of have this worshipthing that you've sort of come
onto the past several years.
What does that look like inyour day-to-day life?
Because worship, I mean, we arejust corporate worship is just
one part of our worshipexperience.
So when we come together onSunday mornings, corporate
worship, that's a group of uscoming together, singing
(16:19):
together, praising together.
But what does worship?
What does your worship looklike as an extension of your
life, meaning, in your world,when you're at work?
What does that look like foryou?
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I think I think the biggest thing in my life to this
point was understanding thatthis portion of my journey with
the Lord is very short on earth.
You know, of course it's humanto get attached to earthly
things.
Right, it really is.
But I saw on a I don't know ifit was Instagram or something
(16:55):
and we've and you and I havetalked about this before, but
there was a gentleman speakingabout this and he had a rope and
the rope like went down and outthe room and you know, it was
400, 500 feet of rope and therewas maybe an inch of it that was
red at the tip and he said thisinch represents your time on
earth and this rope is your timewith God.
Yeah, and I love that and Ialways try to remember that
(17:18):
throughout my day, to kind oftry to remember God has me here
for some reason.
I'm not exactly sure what thatis, but I'm here because of God.
Yeah, I'm here because of theLord and, um, and I want to try
to live my life in the image ofChrist, right, like I want to
(17:40):
try to do.
Like you know, I read theGospels and I've read them many
times and I'm still blown awayby the person Christ was.
I mean, it's just mind-blowingto me.
So, you know, like, as wealways say, hope you know,
conform to.
You know, in the image of Christfor the sake of others, and to
(18:00):
really try to do that can bechallenging, but if I use that
as a whole as a guidance, thenthat's kind of how I bring that
into everyday life right.
Like, I think sometimes formyself I get too worried about
things that aren't going tomatter tomorrow, you know, or
you know things that aren'tgoing to matter in a year from
(18:21):
now.
Why am I worried about thatkind of thing?
And I think really that's kindof the Lord settles into that
and it's like stop, knock it off.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
I love the way you talk about worship and in the
conversations we have it's avery active thing on Sunday
mornings but also in, you know,in our life, and we kind of you
had talked about this sort offollowing the spirit you had
talked about that a few minutesago that like and then we talked
(18:50):
a lot about it in the worshipteam that we need to listen to
each other and also listen tothe Holy spirit, and the Holy
spirit is sort of our guide, andwhen we tap into that, we're
kind of we're tapped into thespirit.
We do things that are greaterthan we could have accomplished
on our own, and I think that,like it's a great parallel for,
like what?
How we lead our lives, Like,can I see how you are a father
(19:11):
to your kids?
Then I think that, like theyare crazy.
I love them, but they're not.
You're being kind, yeah, but Ithink that I see a patience in
you that is otherworldly and tosee a patience and that it
transcends this understanding of, like you said a few minutes
(19:32):
ago, things don't matter in thegrand scheme of things.
What matters is my relationshipwith God and what I'm doing.
So are there things that youwould say that in your faith
journey and I know you only toldus a small portion of it, I
know it's much longer that, asit relates to your time in music
and your time that you reallytake with you daily, I think
(19:55):
that for me, the act ofpracticing and the act of um
preparation is something that,like, I'm so much better at that
as a musician than I am in anyother avenue in my life, and I'm
it's this thing that, like Iknow, god instilled this gift in
me of music, um, and I need to,I need to my diligence that I
take with that, I need to showin the rest of my life.
(20:16):
So are there things like thatthat you've learned in your
faith and music journey, knowingthat they're so intertwined,
but, like what are the thingsthat you've learned about
yourself or about you knowwhatever that shapes who you are
today as the man of God thatyou are?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Yeah, there's a lot in there, but, you know, it's
always interesting when we getinto talking about the act of
worship and the preparation forthat.
And you know, what I will sayis that one of the things that
really profoundly hit me was,you know, my mom passed away 16
(20:54):
or 17 years ago from cancer.
But before she did, she said tome no matter where you're
playing, no matter who you'replaying in front of, remember
that you're always playing to aking.
And you know, I know that thatsounds like an audience of one,
right, but it was before thatwhich was really cool when she
(21:17):
said that to me and that kind ofalways made sense to me.
So, you know, preparation foreverything in your life is
important, right, you know, andwe all do it a little bit better
at times than others, andthat's okay because we're humans
, you know.
I think that having that kindof guidance in my life is what I
(21:43):
try to achieve.
So I don't know if that answersyour question.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
No, I think it's a great answer and yeah, I just
think that playing we talk aboutthis all the time that like our
rehearsal.
So we have a Thursday nightrehearsal I'm sure most many
people may not know that and sowe rehearse Thursdays from like
7, 15 to 9 o'clock and our bestrehearsals are the least
(22:07):
technical meaning.
It's the we are worshipingthrough the figuring it out, and
I always know, almost alwaysknow, that we're going to have a
good Sunday when those services, when those rehearsals, are
very spirit-filled and we're notgetting dogged up on.
Well, you know, you said thiswas on four, not on, you know
stuff like that.
Yeah, that can be challenging,yeah, and I think that that's
(22:29):
just this.
I think that speaks tosomething deeper.
Is that, like, when your eyesare fixed on Jesus, your
priorities are a little bitdifferent.
Eyes are fixed on Jesus, yourpriorities are a little bit
different.
And I think sometimes and weall fall victim to it, cause,
again, like you said, we're notperfect that, um, we, we get
(22:50):
caught up in our own stuff andthinking, you know, I need to
have my ducks in a row, or if Idon't have my, you know.
But like, yeah, our bestrehearsals are always the ones
where there's just a, there'sjust a little bit more
worshipfulness than there's, um,technical figuring things out.
Like, I feel like we get in theweeds sometimes and I think
that's a great example in life,that when we do get in the weeds
and stuff, then we lose the whowe are playing to an audience
(23:12):
of or who we're living for.
I think that's yeah, because Ithink that goes.
You don't have to be aninstrument, you don't have to be
be a musician to play for anaudience of one or to play for
the king.
Well, you know.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
I also think too, one of the great messages the Bible
gives us is to notovercomplicate things.
At least, jesus, I mean.
You look at the parables right.
Like it's just.
Things don't have to be supercomplicated, to have
explanations, and I feel likeour worship Sundays can be like
that too, like, okay, guys, when, when are we getting into
(23:45):
technical things that are nowtaking away from the preparation
?
Or, and like you said, thingshave to be be good because we
want to create a good experiencefor the congregation.
But at the same time it's likeall right is.
Is this now starting?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
to take away Whenever we get to the point where we're
like well, is this in 6.8 or12.4 or you know like, and it's
okay.
But what do we feel in thismoment?
What's the best way to presentthis?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Absolutely A hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I agree.
And I think that that's abeautiful extension of our lives
that sometimes we get caught upin the dumb details of things
not dumb, you know what I mean.
Yeah yeah.
That we forget why we're doingwhat we're doing.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Yeah, absolutely, and I mean it's easy to do and it's
easy to do with a worship teamlike we have, because we're, you
know, thankfully we're blessedand we're bigger.
Yeah, we have more equipment,you know, so you can get bogged
down into some of those thingsyou know, so you can get bogged
down into some of those things.
But I also think that's the jobof the worship leader or the
(24:41):
music director on thoserehearsals to kind of pull the
group back and say, all right,look, I understand what you're
saying, but let's refocus backnow and see if we can do this.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
But yeah, just any final thoughts you have for our
friends that are listening rightnow.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
No I mean I just would hope that people are
getting an experience where theycan really see the love that
Christ has for them, and I hopethat's what we do and that's
what we pray about every week totry to do so yeah, thanks,
brother.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Thanks so much for hopping on today.
Um, and thank you everybody forlistening.
Um, please invite friends sharethis podcast with um people
that might be interested.
Uh, we these come out everyweek.
Um, and if you want to knowmore information about the
podcast or have questions,please reach out to a podcast at
meethopeorg and ma'am.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Thanks for being a part of the Hope Community as we
continue our conversationsabout faith and hope.
If you don't already, pleasejoin us for worship on Sundays
or on demand.
You can learn more atmeethopeorg or find us on
socials at Meet Hope Church.
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