November 25, 2025 • 34 mins
Host Jonathan Hughes talks to Patricia Roberts, Chief Operating Officer at Gift of College, about the importance of saving for the future, her personal experience saving for college for her son, college gifting, and the MEFA gift cards now available.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Now to the gifting point.
Was gifting available back in1999 or were these tools available
while I was saving?
Well, no, not in the early years.
It was probably until like2010 or so that these gifting tools
started to serve surface.
And when they did, I began toslowly, gingerly ask friends and
(00:32):
family to really forego thosemore traditional gifts and instead
contribute toward Ben's account.
So I did have the opportunityto try some of the tools out and
to utilize them, but they werenowhere near available as they are
today.
So I'm excited to really be anindividual who gives the gift of
of college through the typesof gift cards that MIFA is offering.
(00:55):
I give them all the time.
Every baby shower, everybirthday party, every December holiday.
I'm on it.
And that's what I give becauseI feel it's probably the best thing
that a family can receive.
Hi everyone and welcome to theMEPA Podcast.
My name is Jonathan Hughes andwe're bringing you this episode on
(01:15):
the eve of the holiday season.
And like we do every holidayseason, we want to remind you that
Savings for the future makes agreat gift.
Whether that means a gift to acollege savings account for a child
or money for an able accountfor a loved one with a disability,
financial independence andsecurity is a great gift.
And you just heard our gueston the show today talking about that.
(01:39):
She's Gift of College ChiefOperating Officer Patricia Roberts.
And I'm really excited tofinally have.
Her on this show and you'llsee why when you hear our conversation.
She is uniquely positioned totalk about all of these things because
she's really lived all ofthese things, not just in her professional
life, but personally too.
Now MIPHA partners with Giftof College to offer MIPHA gift cards
(02:03):
in both physical and nowdigital varieties.
And we'll talk about that.
Of course.
We'll also talk aboutPatricia's personal, personal story,
including her work with Giftof College, her history with Able
accounts, and her advocacy forcollege savings, including the book
she wrote on the topic and myfavorite touch, of course, the value
of a philosophy degree.
(02:24):
So I will be back after theinterview to wrap things up.
Now let's meet our guest.
I'm Patricia Roberts, ChiefOperating Officer at Gift of College,
where we make it very easy forindividuals and and employers to
invest in the futures of thosethey care about.
Beyond my extensiveprofessional experience with 529
(02:49):
plans over 25 years, I have aclose personal connection to the
topic of saving for collegeand disability expenses.
And in my favorite role ofall, I am the mom of a Clark University
graduate not too far from youin Worcester, Massachusetts.
(03:09):
Can you just let everybodyknow how NEFA and Gift of College
work together and what we doand what's new that we have to offer?
Absolutely.
I'd love to just tell you abit about Gift of College, a bit
more about it because it'llmore sense when I describe the exciting
news about Gift of College and mipa.
So Gift of College through aplatform, an innovative platform
(03:34):
enables free friends, family,employers and others to contribute
with ease to 529 collegesavings accounts, able disability
savings accounts and studentloan accounts of individuals they
care about.
And how is this accomplished?
(03:54):
By two ways.
One, gift cards, which we'regoing to talk about with respect
to mefa, individuals can buygift cards and and give them for
birthdays, holidays and other occasions.
And individuals who receivethose gift cards can contribute them
to their 529 college savingsor disability savings account.
(04:14):
And then the other way this isaccomplished is through an employer
platform that we have wherebyemployers can offer payroll deduction
to 529 college savings or abledisability savings and match those
contributions as well.
So we've got a twofold way toto help individuals not have to go
(04:35):
it alone because others can contribute.
So what's happening betweenMEFA and Gift of College is very
exciting.
So more than a year ago webegan working together by expanding
MIFA's reach with itsexcellent 529 plans and its able
plan by getting its brand, themifa brand on gift of college gift
(05:00):
cards throughout Massachusettsin CVS stores.
That was the first thing webegan doing together.
So these gift cards can befound at various CVS stores in Massachusetts
and they can be purchased bygift givers as an easy gift to give
and given to those they careabout and redeemed into one of MIFA's
(05:21):
529 plans or its able plan attainable.
So that's the first thing wedid together.
And you have a copy of one ofthose cards, right?
I do.
Let me show you.
When I was last in Boston andsaw you, Jonathan, I went into a
stop and shop which is goingto be part of our additional news
(05:44):
and found this gift card.
So it's a gift of college giftcard, co branded mifa.
You fund mifa, you plan MIFAattainable and it was available in
combinations of 25 to $500.
So this is the first way westart it and we start it with cvs.
Now as I just mentioned, weare in additional retailers together.
(06:09):
So in Massachusetts, not onlyCVS now not only many CVS stores
but also Stop and Shop andCumberland Farms.
So these gift cards can befound at a number of retailers in
Massachusetts and we're veryexcited about that.
So that's part one, theexpanded retail footprint getting
(06:30):
your wonderful brand out toconsumers throughout your state in
this way.
The other exciting news is anonline shopping cart on mifa.org
and Jonathan, I'm sure you canmake the link available in the show
Notes certainly will.
Okay, do that.
But through that individualscan buy digital gift cards or E gift
(06:56):
cards for this very same purpose.
So some may prefer to goshopping and have something tangible
to give.
Others may prefer to simply goonline and select an E gift card,
a NEFA E gift card to give toindividuals they care about for special
occasions coming up.
(07:16):
So that is a very new development.
The images that are availableon these digital gift cards are absolutely
adorable.
They are suitable for allsorts of celebrations and there is
one in particular that is veryfitting for a recipient who has an
able account as well.
(07:36):
So that's what's happeningwith MIFA and Gift of College and
we couldn't be more excitedabout it.
That's great.
And since you mentioned ableaccounts a couple of times, can you
just talk about what an ableaccount is is and how this could
be used?
Sure.
So much like a 529 collegesavings account, an able account
is a tax advantaged way tosave for a particular purpose.
(08:01):
While the 529 account'sparticular purpose is education and
primarily higher education.
Although it can now be usedfor K to 12 in certain instances.
The able account's primarypurpose is to pay and save, save
and pay for disability related expenses.
So those expenses can beextremely broad for an individual
(08:26):
who has a significantdisability which began before age
26 currently.
But as of the first of theyear it's for anyone with a significant
disability subject to certainconditions that began before age
46.
So how do these accounts work?
So individuals who qualify forthem and it's really self substantiating
(08:50):
it's significant disabilities,those that are not likely to be easily
overcome, those that interferewith activities of daily living.
Individuals who receive SSI orother forms of assistance are eligible
and certainly medicalcertification could be received by
individuals for their owndocumentation in order to be deemed
(09:13):
qualified to participate in anable plan.
But what those individuals cando is at last have money in their
own name that is not at riskof interfering with other benefits
they receive.
Jonathan, you may know I havea brother with a developmental disability.
His Disability began Wellbefore age 26 actually at birth.
(09:38):
And for years he could neverhave money in his own name because
if he had more than 2,000doll, he was at risk of having his
Medicaid and some otherbenefits potentially reduced.
That now has ended with theintroduction of these Able plan accounts
nearly 11 years ago.
(09:59):
So now individuals can save upto I believe, $100,000 in an account
that they own and not fear theloss of these other benefits.
So that's tremendously valuable.
And what can they pay for withthese accounts?
Really almost anything thatenhances their health and well being.
(10:19):
Certainly that could beeducation if they were so inclined
to pursue some form of education.
But it could also be assistivetechnology, automobile housing, food,
home care services,professional services of other types.
Really anything that they needto keep the quality of life enjoyable
(10:40):
for them and to keep them healthy.
So I'm really excited aboutthese Able accounts.
Not enough people know aboutthem, but the fact that these gift
cards that you now have cobranded and expanded in Massachusetts
can be used for them.
I think we're going to getmore participation and more support
for those with disabilities.
And I couldn't be happierabout this.
(11:01):
Yeah, I certainly hope you'reright and I think you're right as
well.
And I want to thank you for,for talking about your own personal
experience and I wonder if youcould, you know, talk about, you
mentioned before being a momof a Clark University graduate, what
was your experience, yourpersonal experience in saving for
college.
And you know, I don't know ifthis was sort of, if gifting was.
(11:24):
An option at this point or you.
Know, what personal experiencedo you have with either gifting platforms
for 529 or attainable or able.
Excuse me.
Well, okay, a lot there.
Let's see.
In terms of my personalexperience of saving for college,
that actually goes back to myown childhood experience of almost
(11:47):
missing the opportunity to goto college.
These childhood experiencesreally fuel the reason why I saved
for my son and why I am sodetermined to help other families.
So as a student in a lowincome family headed by a single
mom and, and touched by thedisability of my brother, I almost
missed the opportunity to goto college.
(12:08):
In fact, my guidance counselorsuggested I stick with that junior
high school waitressing jobwhich I continued through high school
instead of pursuing higher education.
My mom would have nothing of it.
And I did go to college andworked multiple jobs, sent money
home and attained not one buttwo degrees, but at a cost.
(12:29):
So I wound up having to repaytens of thousands of dollars in Student
loan debt.
No regrets for pursuing thathigher education.
It enabled me to lift myselfand my mom out of tough circumstances.
But I did have to repay that cost.
And the repayment of thatstudent loan debt and the attainment
of my own education really,really fueled my desire to do better
(12:53):
for my son.
So when he arrived in my lifein 1999 and I was paying back together
with his dad, over $100,000 inour collective student loan debt,
we made a decision, saving ina 529 plan a little at a time from
our paychecks.
And I'm happy to report, whichyou may or may not know, Ben did
(13:14):
graduate with two debt freedegrees from Clark University.
And I couldn't be happierabout it.
Yes.
Now to the gifting point.
Was gifting available back in1999 or were these tools available
while I was saving?
Well, no, not in the early years.
It was probably until like2010 or so that these gifting tools
(13:36):
started to surface.
And when they did, I began toslowly, gingerly ask friends and
family to really forego thosemore traditional gifts and instead
contribute toward Ben's account.
So I did have the opportunityin those years of sort of later middle
school, through college, toinvite friends and family to do so.
(13:58):
Those small amounts that weregiven even by my mom, who was on
a fixed income, $25 here andthere, really in time grew in value
to perhaps pay for some ofBen's books while he was at Clark
University.
So I did have the opportunityto try some of the tools out and
to utilize them, but they werenowhere near available as they are
today.
(14:19):
So I'm excited to really be anindividual who gives the gift of
college through the types ofgift cards that MEFA is offering.
I give them all the time.
Every baby shower, everybirthday party, every December holiday.
I'm on it.
And that's what I give becauseI feel it's probably the best thing
that a family can receive.
Well, so, you know, you'vespoken very eloquently, of course,
(14:40):
about your own story and howthe college education that you have
has, as you said, raised youup and raised up members of your
family as well.
And you wrote about that inyour book.
And I want to talk a littlebit about your book and when you
wrote that and why you decidedto write it.
And you know, what do you wantpeople to get from it?
(15:01):
Sure.
And thank you for asking aboutit and thank you for reading it.
So my book is called Route 529.
Here it is, A Parent's Guideto Saving for college and career
training.
I want to stress that with 529plans, why did I write this book
and when?
Well, I found myself during aperiod of social distancing.
(15:22):
You'll remember it in 2020,with some extra time on my hands
and I wasn't inclined to startbaking sourdough bread or doing some
of the other activities thatpeople were succeeding so greatly
at.
I really thought I had seenjust yet another survey that talked
about the lack of awareness of529 plans.
(15:43):
And I was hearing on the newsthe struggle that individuals were
having in repaying studentloan debt during the pandemic.
And I thought, you know what?
I've got so much experience onthis very topic.
I. I've got time on my hands.
I've got a student that'sabout to enter his senior year and
graduate debt free.
Why don't I use this time, ifnot now, when to educate other parents
(16:08):
in very easy to understandterms about what these 529 plans
are and to inspire them totake small, consistent steps to save
toward whatever future planstheir child may have.
And in doing so, I informedfamilies about the ability that others
(16:30):
could contribute to these accounts.
I busted some of the mostcommon myths about 529 plans and
I wove into the book.
It's really a book about thejourney of savings, thus that road
work on the COVID I workedinto it a bit about my own personal
journey and the journey ofothers, with their permission, who
(16:52):
I know well, how they wentabout saving.
No one's journey is the same,but I believe the information I offered
is easy to access, easy tounderstand, and I believe it's making
a difference.
At the end of every chapter Ido key takeaways.
I'm envisioning a busy workingmom or dad reading the book, setting
(17:13):
it down, maybe running after a toddler.
I made it easy for people toremember exactly what the key points
are in the book.
With lots of visuals you'llremember that there are lots of visual
and a really touching forewordwritten by my son Ben about his experience
of growing up in a family,prioritizing the savings, driving
(17:35):
a 25 year old car whichliterally got him to and through
college.
We never bought another carduring his childhood.
To this day we still have it.
He reflects on the sacrificeswe made to have him be able to pursue
a degree of his choice and tograduate without that crushing weight
of debt.
I mean that in and of itselfis impressive that you know, you,
(17:58):
your son really does feel thevalue and the weight of everything
that he has from his educationand what you gave up or, you know,
how you finance his educationas well.
Yeah, it's true.
And he was able to do thingslike, first of all, pick a school
that felt appropriate for him.
(18:18):
We were very candid about theamount of money we had saved.
He knew about it along the way.
We started in age appropriateways, talking about it.
When it came time to tourcolleges and to consider options,
he knew how much we had saved.
He had a good understanding ofwhat his circumstances would look
like after college.
(18:39):
If he went to a school that wecouldn't quite afford.
He knew he would be borrowingor perhaps serving as a resident
advisor or working multiple jobs.
But he picked the school gladly.
That was the best fit for him,and it was a good financial fit for
our family as well.
But he was able to pursueunpaid internships while he was in
school because he didn't haveto worry so much about summer money
(19:04):
contributing towards fall courses.
He was able to volunteer oncampus and off campus in his community
there in Worcester.
He was also able to studyabroad and study something that interested
him most.
Those were the options thatplanning ahead provided him.
And I'm so glad that hereflected on it and shared that in
(19:25):
my book.
I think he was the perfectperson to write the forward.
Yeah.
And, you know, congratulationson that once again.
And, you know, you're a veryeloquent and effective advocate for
saving for college and forhigher education in general.
I want to ask you how youentered this field.
Sure.
So I mentioned to you that Iobtained both an undergraduate degree
(19:50):
and a number of years later,six or seven years later, I pursued
a law degree at night whileworking full time.
And it was while I was anattorney at Citigroup as an investment
management attorney orinvestment advisory attorney, that
the topic of 529 landed on my desk.
(20:11):
They needed an attorney tofocus on this potential line of business
for Citigroup as they desiredto get into it to help families invest
those funds for college.
And I happened to be expectingmy son at the time.
I happened to be repaying over$100,000 in student loan debt with
(20:35):
my husband.
And I couldn't imagine abetter assignment landing on my desk.
So that's how I first got into529 plans.
That was 1998, or maybe alittle bit before then.
But my expertise began todevelop then.
And it's been so rewarding towork not only as an attorney, but
(20:56):
then on the business side atMerrill lynch and Alliance Bernstein
Investments to help form areally impactful philanthropic platform
here in New York City calledNew York City Kids Rise, through
which over 250,000 publicschool students now have seed money
for college.
And then to move on to gift ofcollege and, and to help in this
(21:19):
way.
I really feel like I've gonefull circle as someone, you know,
challenged to pursue highereducation, challenged to pay back
my own debt, able to save formy son and see him graduate debt
free, and now able to help somany others do just that.
So I couldn't be moresatisfied with my career and the
(21:43):
route not to lead back to thebook, but has taken.
So, you know, you mentionedNew York City Kids Rise, and I know
you worked as well with theRhode Island CSA program.
And in a way, you know, yeah,you're right.
It comes full circle.
These things all kind of bleed together.
And that is CSA programs.
In case anybody is, islistening, doesn't know what those
are, I wonder if you couldjust talk about what they are.
(22:08):
Yeah.
So these are programs designedin different ways by either states
or communities, I guess,municipalities, sometimes nonprofits.
But these are programs throughwhich young people sometimes at birth,
as in the state of Maine, andyou've got something there in Massachusetts
as well.
California has somethingwhereby at birth, or in the case
(22:32):
of New York City's program atkindergarten, families are given
seed money for college savings accounts.
So they're given a littlesomething to get them started and
even better to acquaint themwith the topic of college savings
and 529 plans.
(22:54):
So it's not just handing moneyto a family to get them interested
in saving for college, butit's giving them as well the financial
education they need to beginto add or open their own account
and add funds to it as well.
So these programs have beenaround for a number of years.
(23:19):
I think Maine told us at thatrecent event we were at together,
Jonathan, that their youngestrecipients are now in high school,
about to graduate.
I know California has somegraduates as well, but it's being
studied what impact theseaccounts are having.
And it does seem that evenmodestly, amounts of initial savings
(23:39):
that families do add to canreally make a difference in a child's
outlook about their future andtheir success in pursuing and attaining
some form of higher education.
So I'm really happy to havebeen involved.
I launched the Rhode islandprogram on July 1, 2010.
It was called College Bound Baby.
(24:01):
And then in 2017, 18 helpeddesign and launch this New York City
Kids Rise program, which hasbeen so successful.
Really very satisfying and agreat way to acquaint individuals
who may never have heard abouta 529 plan may never have aspired
or thought their child couldaspire to college to get them thinking
(24:24):
along different lines andplanning a little at a time for their
child's future.
And one thing I love about ittoo, and it ties in with gift of
college, of course, is thatthis idea has really exploded, that
you don't have to go it aloneas a parent, that a child really
can benefit from communal sortof activity of having other people
(24:46):
save for college for them.
Or college and career for them.
That's right.
You don't need to go it alone.
And I think that that is oneof the most reassuring aspects of
the messaging that you arerelaying at MIFA by offering all
of these many ways tocontribute towards someone else's
(25:07):
account.
And it's exactly what I getacross in my book.
It's exactly what I speak topeople about.
Getting the account open is important.
Beginning to fund it inwhatever way you can on an automatic
basis, preferably, and thengetting that circle of support involved
is so very important.
And I love that yourorganization is really getting people
(25:30):
aware of the many differentways they can do that.
And of course, you know, we'revery excited by our partnership with
gift of College.
You're helping us to do thatvery, very effectively.
So thank you.
I want to finish with onequestion because I know you know,
knowing you, and I know youmentioned a couple of degrees that
you had.
(25:51):
One thing that parents alwaysask about or students always ask
about is they're maybehesitant to study a particular major
or to choose a major.
They want to know, is it worth it?
Is a college degree worth itif you don't get a job in the field
with which.
(26:11):
In the field in which you gota degree.
So bearing that in mind, and Ialways tell them it is, but what
was your initial degree in?
Sure.
So my initial degree, myundergraduate degree is a bachelor's
of arts in both philosophy andpolitical science.
(26:32):
Now, those are 2 degrees whereit's not necessarily clear exactly
what career path you wouldtake, but they're wonderful degrees
to help you develop skillsthat could be beneficial in many
different.
Different careers.
Yeah, I was wondering if youcould tell because people always
sort of joke about philosophy majors.
(26:52):
I know you're going to make alot of money with that philosophy
degree, but having an actualphilosophy major here who has done
extraordinarily well, I wonderif you could just sort of tell us
a little bit about maybe whatyou learned in.
With your philosophy major,that would help you in your, in your
life or in your career?
Sure.
Well, certainly with studyingphilosophy, there's an incredible
(27:14):
amount of reading and thinkingand writing and discourse.
Certainly I refined mycritical thinking skills and developed
really quite a bit of clarity,which helps me to this day.
Communication and persuasionskills, when you're a philosopher,
those come into play.
(27:36):
Play.
And certainly in politicalscience, ethical judgment, certainly
in philosophy, we think a lot,we hope in political science as well,
we think a lot about ways ofbeing in the world and making judgments
about who we show up as andwhat we're doing.
And also I think both of thosedegrees helped me to really think
(27:59):
about making an impact in theworld in some sort of meaningful
way.
Since both led to a lawdegree, that's just the icing on
the cake.
I mean, I use my legal skillsevery single day.
Even though I'm no longerpracticing law, I have kept that
license active.
And there's not a day thatgoes by that I'm not thinking in
(28:22):
a fashion that I learned inlaw school and the legal profession
as well.
Helps you to negotiate wellwith people, find commonality of
interest, which is soessential no matter what you're working
on, and reach conclusions thatserve really a broader audience well.
(28:43):
And those skills have helpedme so much in really every aspect
of the work I now do.
I feel like I am a veryeffective advocate for these programs
that I believe so deeply in,these programs that have helped my
own family, my son, my brother.
Right.
With the disability accountand the gift cards and the gifting
(29:07):
tools that you've developedthat can help people as well pay
down student loan debt.
We didn't talk as much aboutthat, but those gift cards and your
platform can help with that as well.
So for those who weren't ableto save in advance or didn't save
quite as much, you could givea gift this holiday season for someone
attempting to pay back the debt.
(29:27):
So is education worth it?
Yes, I think most every formof post secondary education is worth
it.
It does not need to be acollege degree.
And as you and I both know,529 plans have been expanded through
the years, most recentlythrough the Tax Reconciliation act
in July 2025 to cover many,many forms of education.
(29:51):
Now, non degree credentials,certificates, continuing education
licenses.
I think education is always valuable.
I think if you don't know whatyou want to do and you're really
uncertain about pursuing it,it may be wise, given the cost, to
take a pause, take a beat,perhaps take a little time to think
(30:13):
about what that might be.
Sometimes students take a gap year.
Could also start at a veryinexpensive school or with an inexpensive
form of study till you sort ofget your feet wet and start deciding
what it is that interests you most.
I feel strongly no familyshould be pursuing education that
(30:35):
they truly, truly can't afford.
Certainly student loans inmanageable amounts seem to be okay
for families.
But if people are getting intoincredible debt to pursue a particular
degree that they may or maynot use, in the end that can be concerning.
So I say yay for education ofany sort.
(30:55):
Be thoughtful as a consumerabout what you pursue and when you
pursue it, and then be open tothe many possibilities of where that
education may take you.
It may be an unexpected paththat you may not have thought of.
It could be an internshipduring college that leads you in
a different direction, or thatfirst job that you got just to get
(31:19):
a job that ended up sparkingsome interest in a field you had
never thought of.
But education will always be agood investment in my view.
But enter it thoughtfully anddon't overspend.
If you can do so and getothers to help you, well, I would.
Agree that you are a veryeffective advocate for education.
(31:40):
And if anybody is listeningand, you know, didn't know that by
now, they do.
So before we go, if thatperson who just heard you speak so
eloquently about this isinterested in college gifting for
the holidays or for any otheroccasion, how do they do that?
Well, first of all, if you'reinterested in college gifting, thank
(32:03):
you.
You are brilliant and you'regoing to feel good.
There'll be no buyer's remorsein terms of giving a gift toward
higher education.
How do you go about doing it?
We talked about a few waysthere in Massachusetts and also across
the country, but let's focuson Massachusetts.
The MIFA cards, which I showedyou early on, are available at various
(32:26):
retailers.
We talked about cvs, wementioned Stop and Shop where I picked
up this one.
And there's also Cumberland Farms.
If you're outside ofMassachusetts, there are other places
across the country.
You can find those on our Findin store tool on giftofcollege.com
you can also, as discussed,buy a digital gift card.
(32:46):
You're in a hurry, you want tograb something.
Digital gift card on mifa.orggiftcard that's another possibility
as well.
But whatever you do, whetheryou're handing it to a child, you're
sending it via email, you aremaking a very good decision.
It's a win for you.
It's a win for that child'sparents or that disabled individual's
(33:09):
family.
And certainly a win for therecipient for having a brighter and
less stressful financial future.
Thanks to you.
So go for it.
All right.
Thank you so much, Patricia.
I really appreciated havingyou on and everything you had to
say was so valuable.
And I'm just really glad afterso long to have you on the show.
(33:31):
Thank you for inviting me.
It's been a pleasure and Ihope I'll be back at some point.
I'm sure you will.
All right, everyone, that wasour show.
I would like to thank ourguest, Patricia Roberts for coming
(33:51):
on and sharing her time andher story with all of us.
I truly enjoyed this verymuch, Patricia.
I hope to have you back on theshow soon.
And folks, if you liked whatyou heard today or what you saw today
on the show and you want tohear more from us on planning, saving
and paying for college andcareer readiness, well, then follow
the show and you can do thiswherever you find your podcast.
(34:12):
And just as important, pleaseremember to leave us a review.
Just helps us to keep doingwhat we're doing and getting this
show out to folks like you.
I would like to thank ourproducer, Sean Connolly.
I would like to thank MeredithClement, Christina Cena Davidson,
Lauren Danz, Lisa Rooney, andAJ Yee for their assistance in posting
(34:32):
the show.
And once again, my name isJonathan Hughes and this has been
the Mipha podcast.
Thank you.
Now to the gifting point.
Was gifting available back in1999 or were these tools available
while I was saving?
Well, no, not in the early years.
It was probably until like2010 or so that these gifting tools
started to serve surface.
And when they did, I began toslowly, gingerly ask friends and
(00:32):
family to really forego thosemore traditional gifts and instead
contribute toward Ben's account.
So I did have the opportunityto try some of the tools out and
to utilize them, but they werenowhere near available as they are
today.
So I'm excited to really be anindividual who gives the gift of
of college through the typesof gift cards that MIFA is offering.
(00:55):
I give them all the time.
Every baby shower, everybirthday party, every December holiday.
I'm on it.
And that's what I give becauseI feel it's probably the best thing
that a family can receive.
Hi everyone and welcome to theMEPA Podcast.
My name is Jonathan Hughes andwe're bringing you this episode on
(01:15):
the eve of the holiday season.
And like we do every holidayseason, we want to remind you that
Savings for the future makes agreat gift.
Whether that means a gift to acollege savings account for a child
or money for an able accountfor a loved one with a disability,
financial independence andsecurity is a great gift.
And you just heard our gueston the show today talking about that.
(01:39):
She's Gift of College ChiefOperating Officer Patricia Roberts.
And I'm really excited tofinally have.
Her on this show and you'llsee why when you hear our conversation.
She is uniquely positioned totalk about all of these things because
she's really lived all ofthese things, not just in her professional
life, but personally too.
Now MIPHA partners with Giftof College to offer MIPHA gift cards
(02:03):
in both physical and nowdigital varieties.
And we'll talk about that.
Of course.
We'll also talk aboutPatricia's personal, personal story,
including her work with Giftof College, her history with Able
accounts, and her advocacy forcollege savings, including the book
she wrote on the topic and myfavorite touch, of course, the value
of a philosophy degree.
(02:24):
So I will be back after theinterview to wrap things up.
Now let's meet our guest.
I'm Patricia Roberts, ChiefOperating Officer at Gift of College,
where we make it very easy forindividuals and and employers to
invest in the futures of thosethey care about.
Beyond my extensiveprofessional experience with 529
(02:49):
plans over 25 years, I have aclose personal connection to the
topic of saving for collegeand disability expenses.
And in my favorite role ofall, I am the mom of a Clark University
graduate not too far from youin Worcester, Massachusetts.
(03:09):
Can you just let everybodyknow how NEFA and Gift of College
work together and what we doand what's new that we have to offer?
Absolutely.
I'd love to just tell you abit about Gift of College, a bit
more about it because it'llmore sense when I describe the exciting
news about Gift of College and mipa.
So Gift of College through aplatform, an innovative platform
(03:34):
enables free friends, family,employers and others to contribute
with ease to 529 collegesavings accounts, able disability
savings accounts and studentloan accounts of individuals they
care about.
And how is this accomplished?
(03:54):
By two ways.
One, gift cards, which we'regoing to talk about with respect
to mefa, individuals can buygift cards and and give them for
birthdays, holidays and other occasions.
And individuals who receivethose gift cards can contribute them
to their 529 college savingsor disability savings account.
(04:14):
And then the other way this isaccomplished is through an employer
platform that we have wherebyemployers can offer payroll deduction
to 529 college savings or abledisability savings and match those
contributions as well.
So we've got a twofold way toto help individuals not have to go
(04:35):
it alone because others can contribute.
So what's happening betweenMEFA and Gift of College is very
exciting.
So more than a year ago webegan working together by expanding
MIFA's reach with itsexcellent 529 plans and its able
plan by getting its brand, themifa brand on gift of college gift
(05:00):
cards throughout Massachusettsin CVS stores.
That was the first thing webegan doing together.
So these gift cards can befound at various CVS stores in Massachusetts
and they can be purchased bygift givers as an easy gift to give
and given to those they careabout and redeemed into one of MIFA's
(05:21):
529 plans or its able plan attainable.
So that's the first thing wedid together.
And you have a copy of one ofthose cards, right?
I do.
Let me show you.
When I was last in Boston andsaw you, Jonathan, I went into a
stop and shop which is goingto be part of our additional news
(05:44):
and found this gift card.
So it's a gift of college giftcard, co branded mifa.
You fund mifa, you plan MIFAattainable and it was available in
combinations of 25 to $500.
So this is the first way westart it and we start it with cvs.
Now as I just mentioned, weare in additional retailers together.
(06:09):
So in Massachusetts, not onlyCVS now not only many CVS stores
but also Stop and Shop andCumberland Farms.
So these gift cards can befound at a number of retailers in
Massachusetts and we're veryexcited about that.
So that's part one, theexpanded retail footprint getting
(06:30):
your wonderful brand out toconsumers throughout your state in
this way.
The other exciting news is anonline shopping cart on mifa.org
and Jonathan, I'm sure you canmake the link available in the show
Notes certainly will.
Okay, do that.
But through that individualscan buy digital gift cards or E gift
(06:56):
cards for this very same purpose.
So some may prefer to goshopping and have something tangible
to give.
Others may prefer to simply goonline and select an E gift card,
a NEFA E gift card to give toindividuals they care about for special
occasions coming up.
(07:16):
So that is a very new development.
The images that are availableon these digital gift cards are absolutely
adorable.
They are suitable for allsorts of celebrations and there is
one in particular that is veryfitting for a recipient who has an
able account as well.
(07:36):
So that's what's happeningwith MIFA and Gift of College and
we couldn't be more excitedabout it.
That's great.
And since you mentioned ableaccounts a couple of times, can you
just talk about what an ableaccount is is and how this could
be used?
Sure.
So much like a 529 collegesavings account, an able account
is a tax advantaged way tosave for a particular purpose.
(08:01):
While the 529 account'sparticular purpose is education and
primarily higher education.
Although it can now be usedfor K to 12 in certain instances.
The able account's primarypurpose is to pay and save, save
and pay for disability related expenses.
So those expenses can beextremely broad for an individual
(08:26):
who has a significantdisability which began before age
26 currently.
But as of the first of theyear it's for anyone with a significant
disability subject to certainconditions that began before age
46.
So how do these accounts work?
So individuals who qualify forthem and it's really self substantiating
(08:50):
it's significant disabilities,those that are not likely to be easily
overcome, those that interferewith activities of daily living.
Individuals who receive SSI orother forms of assistance are eligible
and certainly medicalcertification could be received by
individuals for their owndocumentation in order to be deemed
(09:13):
qualified to participate in anable plan.
But what those individuals cando is at last have money in their
own name that is not at riskof interfering with other benefits
they receive.
Jonathan, you may know I havea brother with a developmental disability.
His Disability began Wellbefore age 26 actually at birth.
(09:38):
And for years he could neverhave money in his own name because
if he had more than 2,000doll, he was at risk of having his
Medicaid and some otherbenefits potentially reduced.
That now has ended with theintroduction of these Able plan accounts
nearly 11 years ago.
(09:59):
So now individuals can save upto I believe, $100,000 in an account
that they own and not fear theloss of these other benefits.
So that's tremendously valuable.
And what can they pay for withthese accounts?
Really almost anything thatenhances their health and well being.
(10:19):
Certainly that could beeducation if they were so inclined
to pursue some form of education.
But it could also be assistivetechnology, automobile housing, food,
home care services,professional services of other types.
Really anything that they needto keep the quality of life enjoyable
(10:40):
for them and to keep them healthy.
So I'm really excited aboutthese Able accounts.
Not enough people know aboutthem, but the fact that these gift
cards that you now have cobranded and expanded in Massachusetts
can be used for them.
I think we're going to getmore participation and more support
for those with disabilities.
And I couldn't be happierabout this.
(11:01):
Yeah, I certainly hope you'reright and I think you're right as
well.
And I want to thank you for,for talking about your own personal
experience and I wonder if youcould, you know, talk about, you
mentioned before being a momof a Clark University graduate, what
was your experience, yourpersonal experience in saving for
college.
And you know, I don't know ifthis was sort of, if gifting was.
(11:24):
An option at this point or you.
Know, what personal experiencedo you have with either gifting platforms
for 529 or attainable or able.
Excuse me.
Well, okay, a lot there.
Let's see.
In terms of my personalexperience of saving for college,
that actually goes back to myown childhood experience of almost
(11:47):
missing the opportunity to goto college.
These childhood experiencesreally fuel the reason why I saved
for my son and why I am sodetermined to help other families.
So as a student in a lowincome family headed by a single
mom and, and touched by thedisability of my brother, I almost
missed the opportunity to goto college.
(12:08):
In fact, my guidance counselorsuggested I stick with that junior
high school waitressing jobwhich I continued through high school
instead of pursuing higher education.
My mom would have nothing of it.
And I did go to college andworked multiple jobs, sent money
home and attained not one buttwo degrees, but at a cost.
(12:29):
So I wound up having to repaytens of thousands of dollars in Student
loan debt.
No regrets for pursuing thathigher education.
It enabled me to lift myselfand my mom out of tough circumstances.
But I did have to repay that cost.
And the repayment of thatstudent loan debt and the attainment
of my own education really,really fueled my desire to do better
(12:53):
for my son.
So when he arrived in my lifein 1999 and I was paying back together
with his dad, over $100,000 inour collective student loan debt,
we made a decision, saving ina 529 plan a little at a time from
our paychecks.
And I'm happy to report, whichyou may or may not know, Ben did
(13:14):
graduate with two debt freedegrees from Clark University.
And I couldn't be happierabout it.
Yes.
Now to the gifting point.
Was gifting available back in1999 or were these tools available
while I was saving?
Well, no, not in the early years.
It was probably until like2010 or so that these gifting tools
(13:36):
started to surface.
And when they did, I began toslowly, gingerly ask friends and
family to really forego thosemore traditional gifts and instead
contribute toward Ben's account.
So I did have the opportunityin those years of sort of later middle
school, through college, toinvite friends and family to do so.
(13:58):
Those small amounts that weregiven even by my mom, who was on
a fixed income, $25 here andthere, really in time grew in value
to perhaps pay for some ofBen's books while he was at Clark
University.
So I did have the opportunityto try some of the tools out and
to utilize them, but they werenowhere near available as they are
today.
(14:19):
So I'm excited to really be anindividual who gives the gift of
college through the types ofgift cards that MEFA is offering.
I give them all the time.
Every baby shower, everybirthday party, every December holiday.
I'm on it.
And that's what I give becauseI feel it's probably the best thing
that a family can receive.
Well, so, you know, you'vespoken very eloquently, of course,
(14:40):
about your own story and howthe college education that you have
has, as you said, raised youup and raised up members of your
family as well.
And you wrote about that inyour book.
And I want to talk a littlebit about your book and when you
wrote that and why you decidedto write it.
And you know, what do you wantpeople to get from it?
(15:01):
Sure.
And thank you for asking aboutit and thank you for reading it.
So my book is called Route 529.
Here it is, A Parent's Guideto Saving for college and career
training.
I want to stress that with 529plans, why did I write this book
and when?
Well, I found myself during aperiod of social distancing.
(15:22):
You'll remember it in 2020,with some extra time on my hands
and I wasn't inclined to startbaking sourdough bread or doing some
of the other activities thatpeople were succeeding so greatly
at.
I really thought I had seenjust yet another survey that talked
about the lack of awareness of529 plans.
(15:43):
And I was hearing on the newsthe struggle that individuals were
having in repaying studentloan debt during the pandemic.
And I thought, you know what?
I've got so much experience onthis very topic.
I. I've got time on my hands.
I've got a student that'sabout to enter his senior year and
graduate debt free.
Why don't I use this time, ifnot now, when to educate other parents
(16:08):
in very easy to understandterms about what these 529 plans
are and to inspire them totake small, consistent steps to save
toward whatever future planstheir child may have.
And in doing so, I informedfamilies about the ability that others
(16:30):
could contribute to these accounts.
I busted some of the mostcommon myths about 529 plans and
I wove into the book.
It's really a book about thejourney of savings, thus that road
work on the COVID I workedinto it a bit about my own personal
journey and the journey ofothers, with their permission, who
(16:52):
I know well, how they wentabout saving.
No one's journey is the same,but I believe the information I offered
is easy to access, easy tounderstand, and I believe it's making
a difference.
At the end of every chapter Ido key takeaways.
I'm envisioning a busy workingmom or dad reading the book, setting
(17:13):
it down, maybe running after a toddler.
I made it easy for people toremember exactly what the key points
are in the book.
With lots of visuals you'llremember that there are lots of visual
and a really touching forewordwritten by my son Ben about his experience
of growing up in a family,prioritizing the savings, driving
(17:35):
a 25 year old car whichliterally got him to and through
college.
We never bought another carduring his childhood.
To this day we still have it.
He reflects on the sacrificeswe made to have him be able to pursue
a degree of his choice and tograduate without that crushing weight
of debt.
I mean that in and of itselfis impressive that you know, you,
(17:58):
your son really does feel thevalue and the weight of everything
that he has from his educationand what you gave up or, you know,
how you finance his educationas well.
Yeah, it's true.
And he was able to do thingslike, first of all, pick a school
that felt appropriate for him.
(18:18):
We were very candid about theamount of money we had saved.
He knew about it along the way.
We started in age appropriateways, talking about it.
When it came time to tourcolleges and to consider options,
he knew how much we had saved.
He had a good understanding ofwhat his circumstances would look
like after college.
(18:39):
If he went to a school that wecouldn't quite afford.
He knew he would be borrowingor perhaps serving as a resident
advisor or working multiple jobs.
But he picked the school gladly.
That was the best fit for him,and it was a good financial fit for
our family as well.
But he was able to pursueunpaid internships while he was in
school because he didn't haveto worry so much about summer money
(19:04):
contributing towards fall courses.
He was able to volunteer oncampus and off campus in his community
there in Worcester.
He was also able to studyabroad and study something that interested
him most.
Those were the options thatplanning ahead provided him.
And I'm so glad that hereflected on it and shared that in
(19:25):
my book.
I think he was the perfectperson to write the forward.
Yeah.
And, you know, congratulationson that once again.
And, you know, you're a veryeloquent and effective advocate for
saving for college and forhigher education in general.
I want to ask you how youentered this field.
Sure.
So I mentioned to you that Iobtained both an undergraduate degree
(19:50):
and a number of years later,six or seven years later, I pursued
a law degree at night whileworking full time.
And it was while I was anattorney at Citigroup as an investment
management attorney orinvestment advisory attorney, that
the topic of 529 landed on my desk.
(20:11):
They needed an attorney tofocus on this potential line of business
for Citigroup as they desiredto get into it to help families invest
those funds for college.
And I happened to be expectingmy son at the time.
I happened to be repaying over$100,000 in student loan debt with
(20:35):
my husband.
And I couldn't imagine abetter assignment landing on my desk.
So that's how I first got into529 plans.
That was 1998, or maybe alittle bit before then.
But my expertise began todevelop then.
And it's been so rewarding towork not only as an attorney, but
(20:56):
then on the business side atMerrill lynch and Alliance Bernstein
Investments to help form areally impactful philanthropic platform
here in New York City calledNew York City Kids Rise, through
which over 250,000 publicschool students now have seed money
for college.
And then to move on to gift ofcollege and, and to help in this
(21:19):
way.
I really feel like I've gonefull circle as someone, you know,
challenged to pursue highereducation, challenged to pay back
my own debt, able to save formy son and see him graduate debt
free, and now able to help somany others do just that.
So I couldn't be moresatisfied with my career and the
(21:43):
route not to lead back to thebook, but has taken.
So, you know, you mentionedNew York City Kids Rise, and I know
you worked as well with theRhode Island CSA program.
And in a way, you know, yeah,you're right.
It comes full circle.
These things all kind of bleed together.
And that is CSA programs.
In case anybody is, islistening, doesn't know what those
are, I wonder if you couldjust talk about what they are.
(22:08):
Yeah.
So these are programs designedin different ways by either states
or communities, I guess,municipalities, sometimes nonprofits.
But these are programs throughwhich young people sometimes at birth,
as in the state of Maine, andyou've got something there in Massachusetts
as well.
California has somethingwhereby at birth, or in the case
(22:32):
of New York City's program atkindergarten, families are given
seed money for college savings accounts.
So they're given a littlesomething to get them started and
even better to acquaint themwith the topic of college savings
and 529 plans.
(22:54):
So it's not just handing moneyto a family to get them interested
in saving for college, butit's giving them as well the financial
education they need to beginto add or open their own account
and add funds to it as well.
So these programs have beenaround for a number of years.
(23:19):
I think Maine told us at thatrecent event we were at together,
Jonathan, that their youngestrecipients are now in high school,
about to graduate.
I know California has somegraduates as well, but it's being
studied what impact theseaccounts are having.
And it does seem that evenmodestly, amounts of initial savings
(23:39):
that families do add to canreally make a difference in a child's
outlook about their future andtheir success in pursuing and attaining
some form of higher education.
So I'm really happy to havebeen involved.
I launched the Rhode islandprogram on July 1, 2010.
It was called College Bound Baby.
(24:01):
And then in 2017, 18 helpeddesign and launch this New York City
Kids Rise program, which hasbeen so successful.
Really very satisfying and agreat way to acquaint individuals
who may never have heard abouta 529 plan may never have aspired
or thought their child couldaspire to college to get them thinking
(24:24):
along different lines andplanning a little at a time for their
child's future.
And one thing I love about ittoo, and it ties in with gift of
college, of course, is thatthis idea has really exploded, that
you don't have to go it aloneas a parent, that a child really
can benefit from communal sortof activity of having other people
(24:46):
save for college for them.
Or college and career for them.
That's right.
You don't need to go it alone.
And I think that that is oneof the most reassuring aspects of
the messaging that you arerelaying at MIFA by offering all
of these many ways tocontribute towards someone else's
(25:07):
account.
And it's exactly what I getacross in my book.
It's exactly what I speak topeople about.
Getting the account open is important.
Beginning to fund it inwhatever way you can on an automatic
basis, preferably, and thengetting that circle of support involved
is so very important.
And I love that yourorganization is really getting people
(25:30):
aware of the many differentways they can do that.
And of course, you know, we'revery excited by our partnership with
gift of College.
You're helping us to do thatvery, very effectively.
So thank you.
I want to finish with onequestion because I know you know,
knowing you, and I know youmentioned a couple of degrees that
you had.
(25:51):
One thing that parents alwaysask about or students always ask
about is they're maybehesitant to study a particular major
or to choose a major.
They want to know, is it worth it?
Is a college degree worth itif you don't get a job in the field
with which.
(26:11):
In the field in which you gota degree.
So bearing that in mind, and Ialways tell them it is, but what
was your initial degree in?
Sure.
So my initial degree, myundergraduate degree is a bachelor's
of arts in both philosophy andpolitical science.
(26:32):
Now, those are 2 degrees whereit's not necessarily clear exactly
what career path you wouldtake, but they're wonderful degrees
to help you develop skillsthat could be beneficial in many
different.
Different careers.
Yeah, I was wondering if youcould tell because people always
sort of joke about philosophy majors.
(26:52):
I know you're going to make alot of money with that philosophy
degree, but having an actualphilosophy major here who has done
extraordinarily well, I wonderif you could just sort of tell us
a little bit about maybe whatyou learned in.
With your philosophy major,that would help you in your, in your
life or in your career?
Sure.
Well, certainly with studyingphilosophy, there's an incredible
(27:14):
amount of reading and thinkingand writing and discourse.
Certainly I refined mycritical thinking skills and developed
really quite a bit of clarity,which helps me to this day.
Communication and persuasionskills, when you're a philosopher,
those come into play.
(27:36):
Play.
And certainly in politicalscience, ethical judgment, certainly
in philosophy, we think a lot,we hope in political science as well,
we think a lot about ways ofbeing in the world and making judgments
about who we show up as andwhat we're doing.
And also I think both of thosedegrees helped me to really think
(27:59):
about making an impact in theworld in some sort of meaningful
way.
Since both led to a lawdegree, that's just the icing on
the cake.
I mean, I use my legal skillsevery single day.
Even though I'm no longerpracticing law, I have kept that
license active.
And there's not a day thatgoes by that I'm not thinking in
(28:22):
a fashion that I learned inlaw school and the legal profession
as well.
Helps you to negotiate wellwith people, find commonality of
interest, which is soessential no matter what you're working
on, and reach conclusions thatserve really a broader audience well.
(28:43):
And those skills have helpedme so much in really every aspect
of the work I now do.
I feel like I am a veryeffective advocate for these programs
that I believe so deeply in,these programs that have helped my
own family, my son, my brother.
Right.
With the disability accountand the gift cards and the gifting
(29:07):
tools that you've developedthat can help people as well pay
down student loan debt.
We didn't talk as much aboutthat, but those gift cards and your
platform can help with that as well.
So for those who weren't ableto save in advance or didn't save
quite as much, you could givea gift this holiday season for someone
attempting to pay back the debt.
(29:27):
So is education worth it?
Yes, I think most every formof post secondary education is worth
it.
It does not need to be acollege degree.
And as you and I both know,529 plans have been expanded through
the years, most recentlythrough the Tax Reconciliation act
in July 2025 to cover many,many forms of education.
(29:51):
Now, non degree credentials,certificates, continuing education
licenses.
I think education is always valuable.
I think if you don't know whatyou want to do and you're really
uncertain about pursuing it,it may be wise, given the cost, to
take a pause, take a beat,perhaps take a little time to think
(30:13):
about what that might be.
Sometimes students take a gap year.
Could also start at a veryinexpensive school or with an inexpensive
form of study till you sort ofget your feet wet and start deciding
what it is that interests you most.
I feel strongly no familyshould be pursuing education that
(30:35):
they truly, truly can't afford.
Certainly student loans inmanageable amounts seem to be okay
for families.
But if people are getting intoincredible debt to pursue a particular
degree that they may or maynot use, in the end that can be concerning.
So I say yay for education ofany sort.
(30:55):
Be thoughtful as a consumerabout what you pursue and when you
pursue it, and then be open tothe many possibilities of where that
education may take you.
It may be an unexpected paththat you may not have thought of.
It could be an internshipduring college that leads you in
a different direction, or thatfirst job that you got just to get
(31:19):
a job that ended up sparkingsome interest in a field you had
never thought of.
But education will always be agood investment in my view.
But enter it thoughtfully anddon't overspend.
If you can do so and getothers to help you, well, I would.
Agree that you are a veryeffective advocate for education.
(31:40):
And if anybody is listeningand, you know, didn't know that by
now, they do.
So before we go, if thatperson who just heard you speak so
eloquently about this isinterested in college gifting for
the holidays or for any otheroccasion, how do they do that?
Well, first of all, if you'reinterested in college gifting, thank
(32:03):
you.
You are brilliant and you'regoing to feel good.
There'll be no buyer's remorsein terms of giving a gift toward
higher education.
How do you go about doing it?
We talked about a few waysthere in Massachusetts and also across
the country, but let's focuson Massachusetts.
The MIFA cards, which I showedyou early on, are available at various
(32:26):
retailers.
We talked about cvs, wementioned Stop and Shop where I picked
up this one.
And there's also Cumberland Farms.
If you're outside ofMassachusetts, there are other places
across the country.
You can find those on our Findin store tool on giftofcollege.com
you can also, as discussed,buy a digital gift card.
(32:46):
You're in a hurry, you want tograb something.
Digital gift card on mifa.orggiftcard that's another possibility
as well.
But whatever you do, whetheryou're handing it to a child, you're
sending it via email, you aremaking a very good decision.
It's a win for you.
It's a win for that child'sparents or that disabled individual's
(33:09):
family.
And certainly a win for therecipient for having a brighter and
less stressful financial future.
Thanks to you.
So go for it.
All right.
Thank you so much, Patricia.
I really appreciated havingyou on and everything you had to
say was so valuable.
And I'm just really glad afterso long to have you on the show.
(33:31):
Thank you for inviting me.
It's been a pleasure and Ihope I'll be back at some point.
I'm sure you will.
All right, everyone, that wasour show.
I would like to thank ourguest, Patricia Roberts for coming
(33:51):
on and sharing her time andher story with all of us.
I truly enjoyed this verymuch, Patricia.
I hope to have you back on theshow soon.
And folks, if you liked whatyou heard today or what you saw today
on the show and you want tohear more from us on planning, saving
and paying for college andcareer readiness, well, then follow
the show and you can do thiswherever you find your podcast.
(34:12):
And just as important, pleaseremember to leave us a review.
Just helps us to keep doingwhat we're doing and getting this
show out to folks like you.
I would like to thank ourproducer, Sean Connolly.
I would like to thank MeredithClement, Christina Cena Davidson,
Lauren Danz, Lisa Rooney, andAJ Yee for their assistance in posting
(34:32):
the show.
And once again, my name isJonathan Hughes and this has been
the Mipha podcast.
Thank you.
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