74. Don't Despise the Ordinary

DJ and Brad meet to discuss how our culture despises the ordinary and only seeks the extraordinary rather than being content with where God puts us.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome. This is the Men Church Stuff Podcast.

(00:17):
This is the show where brothers-in-law DJ Culp and Brad Coleman talk about stuff from
our perspective as men. It's a show for anyone who wants to hear how Christians interact
with the world. And don't worry, we're real. We've grown up in church and we want to share
our experiences with you. We'll talk life stuff, church stuff, man stuff, and stuff

(00:39):
stuff. Here we go.
Greetings, listeners here and there and everywhere, all across the land. This is the Men Church
Stuff Podcast. I almost forgot what I was going to say. This is a podcast. What are

(01:01):
we doing right now? This is a podcast about something. About something. I'm looking at
Brad. Why am I here? I'm one of your hosts, DJ Culp, as always, here with my beloved brother-in-law,
Brad Coleman. What's up, Brad? You know, I do that same thing, like in the morning. I

(01:22):
look in the mirror and I look at Brad and I go, why am I here?
Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't confused as to why I was like, what I was doing. I was looking
at you thinking, why am I here? I could be doing so many other things, but I'm here talking
with you.
So, you know, I just look in the mirror and I go, oh, I'm stuck with you. You DJ have

(01:46):
a choice. You showed up to the Zoom meeting.
So we have been, Brad, we've been getting, I mean, we've been getting good feedback from

(02:07):
Green Frog.
Oh, good.
Yeah. Words are hard today. Yeah. So I'm not necessarily sure like, you know, how much
the business has peaked, but, you know, listeners, if you're in the Jackson, Tennessee area,
every Monday at Green Frog Coffee on the north side of Jackson, we've got a coupon code that's

(02:33):
part of our show that'll get you $2 off. We're trying to get them some more business, trying
to grow our listenership with the show. And so they've been really good to come alongside
us and help out.
So Brad, since we're talking about coffee, let's just go ahead and do some coffee time.

(02:55):
Coffee time! I'll cue the music.
So as I had just mentioned, we are in collaboration with Green Frog Coffee Company here, local
to Jackson, Tennessee. This is for Monday, December 9. And so if you are in the Jackson,
Tennessee area, or if you know anybody that's in the Jackson, Tennessee area, call them

(03:20):
up or if it's you, you don't have to call yourself clearly and head up to, I mean, you
can, that's right. It'll go straight to voicemail, but head up to the North Green Frog Coffee
Company and whatever you order, anything, if it's an online order, if it's an in-store,
give them the coupon code ORDINARY and you'll get $2 off of your order all day long, which

(03:47):
means that you can be a repeat customer. You can go back multiple times during the day
and using the coupon code ORDINARY and you'll get $2 off your order. So yeah, head up to
Green Frog, it's a great coffee company. Their owner is a professing Christian. They are
built on Christian values. And Brad as normal, they have coffee that's so good, even a snowman

(04:12):
would drink it. So now that we got that out of the way, ORDINARY is our coupon code. Why
don't we dive into the show?
All right, Brad.
Too ordinary, guys.
Just too ordinary, guys. That's exactly right.
Just some ordinary stuff.
All right. We're going to start out today with another set of Mad Libs. Brad, I need

(04:39):
a noun.
DJ is working on my grammar skills.
Yes, I am.
Last time he asked for a noun, I gave him a verb.
You gave me a verb. That's exactly right. So we're looking for a noun, Brad.
Maple syrup.
Maple syrup. All right. Plural noun. How about bicycles? Brad, I need a number.

(05:02):
62.
62. I need another plural noun, umbrellas. There we go. Brad, I need a past tense verb.
See? See? Look at all this.
Well, think about this. Yeah, like a verb is something that you're going to do and then
make like frame it as if you did it.

(05:23):
Ran.
Ran. All right. I need a noun.
I know that's a lie because I didn't do that.
Yeah, that's right. I need a noun. How about gym? Plural occupation, Brad.
Like two jobs?
That's right. Bivocational.

(05:43):
Teachers.
Teachers. Another plural occupation. How about trash collectors? Brad, I need a verb. You're
good at these.
I can verb all day long.
Unknowingly, you're good at them, but you're good at them.
Drove.
Drives.
Driven.
How about drive, Brad? How about just...

(06:11):
Which tense of it do you want?
I can give you all of the tenses. That's what I was going for.
Wasn't going to show off for anything.
That's right. I need a noun. How about a pine tree? I need another noun, Brad.
Turtle.
Turtle.
Dove. Turtle dove.

(06:31):
Turtle dove. It is Christmas time. Body part. Hair follicle. I need another body part, Brad.
Pupil.
Pupil. Another body part. How about patella? Brad, I need a noun.

(06:54):
Rock.
Rock. I need another noun. Pencil. I need another noun.
Allergy medication.
I love it. That's a good one. Allergy medication.

(07:15):
Verb that ends in ing. How about charging? Another verb that ends in ing, Brad.
Frolicking.
Frolicking. Oh, that's a good one, dude.
Yeah.
I got the verbs down.
You do. Yeah. Another verb that ends in ing. How about flowering?

(07:37):
Brad, I need a plural noun. Plural noun. Let's see. Spice ships.
Spice ships. I need a number. How about four million eight hundred thousand two.

(07:59):
All right, Brad. I need another noun.
Bell.
Bell. And a last noun. How about pneumonia?
That's not going to be good. I don't even know what the context is.

(08:21):
All right. So, listeners, our show comes out of First Corinthians chapter 12, where Paul
discusses how the church is like the body parts, unity and diversity in one body. So
here we go, Brad, starting with verse 12.

(08:44):
For as the maple syrup is one and has many bicycles, but all the members of that sixty
two umbrellas being many are one body, so also is Christ.
For by one spirit we were all ran into one gym, whether Jews or Greeks, whether teachers

(09:05):
or trash collectors have all been made to drive into one spirit. For in fact, the pine
tree is not one turtle dove, but many. If the hair follicles should say, because I am
not a pupil, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? And if the patella should

(09:27):
say I am not a rock, I am not I am not of the pencil, is it therefore not of the body?
If the whole body were in allergy medication, where would be the charging? If the whole

(09:57):
body were frolicking, where would be the flowering? But now God has set the four million eight
hundred thousand and two, each of them in the bell just as he pleased. And if they were

(10:21):
all one member, where would the pneumonia be? This is a first draft that Paul wrote.
He was having a fever dream. And when he reread it before he sent it to the church, he was
like, oh, oh, I think I missed some of that from the spirit. And then he was. Let me clarify

(10:44):
what you were saying again. Oh, gosh. So good. It's a good thing that Paul had a proof.
Oh, and dude, I'm sorry, I I skipped I skipped over one. This is back at verse 18. But now
God has set the spaceships, each four million eight hundred thousand two of them in the

(11:07):
bell just as he pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the pneumonia
be? That was a good one, man. We're glad that we're glad that they got the Timothy,
got him straightened out. Yeah, Timothee. Probably Timothee's first question was, I
don't know what a spaceship is. Dear my father in the faith, I think maybe you should reframe

(11:32):
this a little bit so people can understand. My absolute favorite editing quote that was
ever passed down to me was simply, huh? Like I would hope that Timothy would say that to
your father in the faith. What am I supposed to do with this?

(11:56):
Well, you know, Peter does say that sometimes Paul is difficult to understand. That's right.
Oh, goodness. All right. So let's let's see. That's through that is through verse 19.

(12:19):
Here we go. The actual first Corinthians 12 verses 12 through 19 says this, for as the
body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body being many are
one body. So also is Christ. Matt makes a little bit more sense. For by one spirit,
we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and

(12:42):
have all been made to drink into one spirit. For in fact, the body is not one member, but
many. If the foot should say, because I am not a hand, I am not of the body. Is it therefore
not of the body? And if the ear should say, because I'm not an eye, I am not, I am not
of the body. Is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would
be the hearing of the whole? If the whole body were hearing, where would be the smelling?

(13:05):
But now God has set the members, each one of them in the body, just as he pleased. And
if they were all one member, where would the body be? That reads much different than where
would the pneumonia be? It was not clear. It's a lot clearer.
So the topic of today's show is just ordinary, right? Just being ordinary. And this was a

(13:38):
quote from our pastor not too long ago who said something that I really enjoyed. And
I put that up, so I'm just going to have to try to remember what it says. It says, don't
despise. It had nothing to do with pneumonia, no. But I did take my allergy medication last

(14:04):
night. But no, he said that we don't need to despise the ordinary, but that the world
is always looking for the extraordinary. And just to kind of kick off the topic here, Brad,
what about our culture and your experience? What about our culture doesn't praise the

(14:32):
ordinary? Why doesn't our culture praise the ordinary?
Those are two different questions. What about it or why? Let's do why.
I think somewhere in our psyche as humans, we... Man, there's a lot to unpack there.

(15:02):
I would say somewhere in our psyche as humans, we want to be valuable and important. So the
gospel tells us that God made us in His image, right? The Bible tells us God made us in His
image. The gospel tells us that even though we were sinners, Christ died for us and He
loved us. So God values us. God values all life. And He's very like... It's a big deal

(15:31):
taking life. And so we have that intrinsic value, but I think we... Because if we don't
own that, if we don't own that God has made us valuable, so we're valuable because of
the Master who made us, whether or not everybody else thinks so or not. But if we don't own

(15:57):
that, then I think we try to find that value elsewhere. And so when we look, we're looking
for, I think a lot of times, that in popularity and status and wealth. I think that's why
so many kids want to be YouTubers. And if I can just... I can be a YouTuber, I can do

(16:20):
all this stuff, I can make a gazillion dollars, I can never have to actually work and everybody
will think I'm cool and it will be great. I think you have Solomon, who basically who
had all of that stuff, who writes Ecclesiastes and goes, it's all vanity.

(16:42):
It's all vanity.
And I'm trying to think of who it was. I think it was Mr. Ace Ventura.
I can't wait for the deep philosophical point that Jim Carrey...
Actually, he didn't say it. Jim Carrey... So Jim Carrey, I believe it was Jim Carrey

(17:03):
who said, I think that everybody should get to be rich and famous so they can find out
that being rich and famous isn't what it's all about.
Yeah.
So yeah, so no, actually pretty deep, well thought out. I think there's a lot of people
that were seeking those things. And I think on some level, we all are seeking that glory

(17:30):
because we want to be valued, we want to be loved. And the interesting thing is, and I
think it's part of the flesh versus the spirit. Because as believers, we're saying, and our
spirit is in agreement, that God has... We're valuable because God has made us in His image.

(17:55):
So we're made in the image of God. We're valuable because we belong to Christ. He has redeemed
us as believers. We are joint heirs in the kingdom. So you can't get more popular, you
can't get more wealth. I mean, like we're joint heirs in God's kingdom. That means it

(18:15):
belongs to us, right? Together, because He's allowed us to be that. And so the earth itself
doesn't even have a minute part of that. If you own the whole galaxy and I am a joint
heir in God's kingdom, you got less than me. Yeah, that's true. That's right.

(18:42):
So I think that's the big thing is we're trying to be those things. I think oftentimes like
grandiose and glory. So listeners, if you're new to the show, Brad and I hold different
occupations. Brad's a, I'll say a vocational pastor, full-time pastor. However, Brad would

(19:07):
want to define that. And I am a... So I'm a university music professor. I perform a
lot. And in my vocation, Brad, I mean, this is going to come no surprise to you. I know
that you've known me since you and Tabitha got married, but I mean, it's no surprise

(19:32):
to anybody that knows anything about the way the music industry operates. The music industry
operates, I mean, really identically to any other consumer-based industry that the Western
world has to offer. And there is always a push. There's always the push to be the best

(19:55):
one in the room. Like that actually, just even saying that starts to exhaust me because
I remember... And I always lean on the idea that I can't ever perform good enough because

(20:15):
that keeps me always trying to push for more and more and more. But when it comes to the
fight to try to be the best and to have kind of like... If you're in a room with other
musicians, an unwritten goal is to be the one that everybody wants to talk to. It's

(20:42):
the one that everyone says, oh man, there's said person. And that's not ordinary. Matter
of fact, it's the opposite. And certainly in the world of music performance, and I mean,
I tell my students this, I'm guilty of it, dude. I tell my students this so much that

(21:07):
if you just simply want to do what you're doing now, go get another major. And there's
nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with what I like to call being a hobbyist.
But I'm trying to get them to start to think about what they're doing as a career, as a
job, as a... Is it possible? Can you actually continually push yourself more? But I don't

(21:36):
advocate the idea of... And I used to, but I don't advocate the idea of push yourself
to where you are the best person in the room. Push yourself to where at all costs, you are
the person that can beat anybody out for that particular seat. And I want you to understand,

(21:59):
listeners, I'm not trying to convolute the conversation because Brad, I think that there's
a lot of value in what I do in pushing yourself musically to get as good as you can. But I
think that, I personally think that the ordinary mindset comes into play when I step back and

(22:21):
think, okay, why am I pushing myself? Am I pushing myself to be the absolute best for
everybody around me or am I pushing myself to be the best that I can, period? And then
whatever happens after that happens. And that's actually the route that I take. I wanna be
as good as I can. There are things in my life that... I mean, family, depending on the season

(22:48):
of even just the semester, it could be family stuff, it could be work stuff, it could be
performance stuff. When I have my hands on a lot of stuff, depending again on what season
it is, time will go over there, time will go over here, whatever. But I definitely take
the mentality of however God wants to open doors for my musical outlet, I just wanna

(23:21):
make sure that I'm ready for those doors to be open. And so again, like I said, I don't
wanna convolute the conversation because I don't think there's anything wrong at all
with striving to be the best. But relating back to our set of Bible verses, Paul clearly

(23:41):
writes it from the standpoint that if the foot should say because I'm not a hand, I
don't wanna be part of the body, I'm not part of the body. If what God has set me to do
is not what I want to do and I try to operate outside of that, I mean, I can, it's actually

(24:05):
possible for me to do that, but I'm becoming more dysfunctional to...
Right, because feet make crappy hands.
Feet make really bad hands, yeah.
That's not what they're designed for.
Right, and the folks, and I've seen videos of these people, I'm guessing you probably
have too, but people that don't have arms that have figured out how to use their feet

(24:29):
as hands, I mean, they can do it, but that's an adaptation. But you're right, feet are
not designed to be hands, nor the opposite. And so for me, when our pastor said, let's
not despise the ordinary, I really like, it's a simple yet, I think, profound statement

(24:56):
to really kind of unpack about, again, trying to answer why doesn't our culture like the
ordinary? And Brad, I completely agree with you also that if we like the ordinary, that
means it's not about us. That means that I'm not sitting in the limelight, you know?

(25:21):
Well, I think one of the hard questions that we need to ask ourselves as believers, no
matter what we do, no matter where we fit in the body of Christ, and certainly one that
I probably need to ask myself more, is whose glory am I seeking? Who am I seeking to glorify?
Who am I seeking to lift up and bring out? Is it Christ, or is it Brad? And like that,

(25:50):
kind of a secondary question is, whose kingdom am I building, or being a part of the build?
Am I trying to build Brad's kingdom, or am I trying to be obedient and allow God to use
me in building of His kingdom, which we've already said I'm a joint Aaron? So am I trying

(26:11):
to build the kingdom that's going to pass away, the Brad kingdom that is going to be
gone, or am I trying to be used by God in building the kingdom that will never pass
away? Which is a lot more grandiose if you think about it. I think there is the irony.
C.S. Lewis said something along the lines of, it's not that we ask God too much, but

(26:35):
too little. He said it's like a kid making a mud pie in a slum who cannot even envision
a holiday at sea, or a holiday at the beach.
Yeah, yeah. That's right.
So we're sitting here as if we're asking God too much, when the reality is we're just skewed

(26:59):
in our thinking and we're asking Him for too little. God loves the grandiose. He is grandiose.
I think it's just, again, where is the glory in those things? So there's nothing wrong
with big things. But I think the reality is the big things have to, like, they need the

(27:22):
little things. Not that God needs us, so don't misunderstand me out there, people.
But if there's going to be, like Billy Graham, right? Billy Graham was a grandiose preacher.
He did these grandiose events where he preached the gospel. And I think for the most part

(27:44):
that was great. And from what I've read of Billy Graham, God helped him to most of the
time, because I'm sure he struggled with pride and those things. But most of the time, it's
seemingly to me, anyway, Billy Graham focused on Christ and stayed humble. But those big

(28:06):
events that he had, there were a lot of things that had to go on for that to happen. He didn't
just show up at a venue and start speaking, and then all kinds of people showed up.
Right, yeah.
Right? There were people that were advertising that, there were people that were making sure
that the place was ready.
Yeah, you're exactly right.

(28:26):
There were people that had to make sure the place was clean, safe, all of this. Make sure
his speakers works. I mean, on the musical, the audio side of things, make sure his mic,
the people were going to be able to hear him. Okay, we've got 10,000 people that are going
to come. We need to make sure in the back they can hear the message clear. But we look

(28:51):
at Billy Graham and we go, oh, look at how God used Billy Graham. And we forget about
the importance of, well, nobody would have heard Billy Graham if somebody who didn't
know something about audio hadn't made sure that that was right.
So who's – and I think that's part of what God is trying to share with us in Corinthians
is, well, who's the most important? Is it the mouthpiece like Billy Graham or is it

(29:16):
the ear guy who makes sure everybody can hear? Neither.
That's exactly right. Yes.
Neither is more important. I'm not more important to the church at Murphy because I'm the pastor.
That's the role that I have. Is it an important role? Yes. But so is making sure that people

(29:36):
are greeted and feel loved. So is the people that – the prayer warriors. Oh, my gosh.
I mean, if I was going to put some emphasis on some people, like if I myself was going
to be like, these people are more important, that's the prayer warriors.
Yeah.
These people that are – man, they're just praying and a lot of times they're praying

(29:58):
behind the scenes. They don't really know they're praying.
Yeah.
They're having a conversation with God. Man, things are moving. Things are changing
for the better. It's great. Yeah, because you've got some prayer warriors over here
in the background, some little old ladies or young kids sometimes. Man, it tells us

(30:20):
to have the faith of a child.
Yeah.
I think – but right, but we want. And so we have to level that because, like you said,
DJ, there's also nothing wrong with – if God has called us to – like Billy Graham.
We'll keep coming back to Billy Graham, right? I think in a lot of ways that God did call

(30:43):
him to that, right? Called him to be this public speaker, called him to be this guy
who's going to write these books, who has this voice that just makes you go, okay, I
can listen to this guy for a long time. There's this way of speaking who's – how many people
come to faith through the message of Billy Graham? But how many people got saved by Billy

(31:08):
Graham? Zero.
Right. Yeah. It's exactly the same.
That's exactly right.
Jesus and his grace is what's – so Billy Graham's the mouthpiece. He's giving the
word out, and that's what God called him to do. So there's nothing wrong with being
obedient and, hey, let's do a – I mean, I don't know. I never got to sit down with

(31:29):
Billy Graham and ask technical questions of like, how did you decide where to go?
Yeah, yeah.
And what to do.
I'd almost be willing to bet you, Brad, that a portion of the time, the answer to that
question of how did you decide where to go, one of the things that you were mentioning
earlier about the venues, like people have to – there are people set in place that

(31:53):
had to make sure it was clean, set up, all kind of stuff, the audio tech. Well, I mean,
for the Billy Graham crusades to even occur, you know that there was a complete infrastructure
set up independent of him to make sure that events were even planned. So how did you – you
know, like how did you know where to go? I mean, the prayer warriors that were in the

(32:16):
background for sure were – along with his own prayer life was certainly helping. I would
be willing to bet to influence that. But at the same time, I mean, Billy Graham, we've
got crusades to make. So let's just go ahead and let's – like let's look on the map
and start to map out just kind of like a literal roadmap, right, of what cities are we going

(32:40):
to hit. And so I mean, like that whole infrastructure, as you were just saying, that whole infrastructure,
I mean, I don't know who those people were. I have no earthly idea how many people were
involved to make one Billy Graham crusade successful from beginning to end. I have no
idea. But I know that it's more than 10. I know it's more than –

(33:01):
More than 20. You know?
Stick on that. What about the lay volunteers and the people who, when people come forward?
Oh, dude. Yeah.
Are they going to lead them to Christ or at least lead them to the gospel and share with
them? Because you know, when 500 people come forward, Billy Graham can't sit there and
talk to all of them.
No, he cannot. That's exactly right.

(33:24):
So it just –
Yeah, so –
When we own that, you know, there's – go ahead.
I was going to kind of wrap back around and say that the world, our culture, the secular
communities and – or not secular, excuse me, the sacred – no, I was right, sorry.

(33:44):
The secular communities. But at the same time, I mean, any one of us, any one of us can be
guilty on any given day of wanting what I want way more than what God wants. Like this
is certainly not a once you – once Jesus saves your life, once he saved my life, like
I finally understood everything. I mean, that's not the way that that works. But there's

(34:08):
something about like the grass is greener on the other side is I think is a really poignant
adage to kind of explain, you know, how Paul is saying here, look, every single one – every
single person in the church, and when I say the church, not just like the organization

(34:32):
that you attend on, you know, two or three times a week or once a week, whatever, but
also the body of Christ, all of us have roles to play. Sometimes – sometimes the feet
actually are in the limelight, right? I mean, for sprinters, for a punter, I mean, shoot,

(34:58):
man, for me, like actually, you know what, let me take myself out of the conversation
and replace it with a guy by the name of Jonathan Moffat, otherwise known as Sugarfoot. He was
Michael Jackson's drummer. And the reason he called him – the reason he got the name
Sugarfoot is because when he was younger, he had naturally fast feet on the drums. So
like sometimes the foot actually does take front stage. But, you know, Brad, one of the

(35:25):
things that you were talking about, you know, like the prayer warriors, the people that
you don't even know are in the background praying, and I'm going to be very transparent
here. I'm going to put myself at the mercy of our listeners. I'm not good at that. I'm
just going to be flat out blunt. I am not good because, first of all, I've never really

(35:47):
given a concerted effort towards it, but I'm not good at the prayer warrior thing. And
like there's like some guilt that comes along with that, like I should start to qualify
to kind of get myself out of it. I'm just not good at it. It's not one of the things
that I – it's not that I do often. It's really – I'm not a prayer warrior for anyone.

(36:10):
And that said, the prayer warriors that you're talking about, like the people that – that
is how they love to serve. When you said that, the first thing that popped in my mind, and
I don't remember their names, but there are – you already know this, and listeners
probably know this, but I'm going to say anyways, there's three like extremely small bones in

(36:33):
our inner ear that you don't even know are there unless someone says you have three bones
that are there. Or unless you don't have them.
Unless you don't have them and then you're laying on the floor for the rest of your life.
Like the fact that an entire body can balance because those three bones are in place. And

(36:54):
like how often do I think about those bones? I don't. Ever. And so yeah, that's – again,
you know, coming back to why doesn't our world raise the ordinary? I think that – I
think that like if we boil it down all the way into its guts, it's just that ordinary

(37:16):
doesn't gain attention. Ordinary doesn't do anything that makes other people want to
be ordinary. And our culture is very against not being important, not being – you know,

(37:36):
as you were saying earlier, not being the main attraction. What were you going to say,
Brad?
45 things. Quarterback syndrome.

(37:57):
You say quarterback syndrome?
You know, which I just made up. I don't know if it's actually some kind of syndrome because
I'm talking off my head.
I get it. I totally get it. Yeah.
You know, usually you help with the linemen when coaching football. You know, I was a
lineman on offense back in my day. You know, one of the things that I was taught by our

(38:21):
coaches is, look, you're very important. He cannot do his job without you.
Yeah.
But you need to understand he's always going to get the glory, not you.
Dude. That's so deep, man.
You know, you're going to stop the guy from sacking him so that he can make the play.
Yeah.

(38:42):
And everybody can go rah, rah, rah, look at that quarterback.
That's right.
So you've got to accept that.
That's so profound, man. I'm serious.
And you know that if you didn't stop that linebacker, he wouldn't have been able to
do what he was going to do. So you're very important. As a matter of fact, one of the

(39:03):
– you know, I think they found it's the blind side in the movie and all that because
they acknowledged years ago that the blind side tackle is one of the most important linemen
because that's where the quarterback can't adjust as well because it gets C. Right?

(39:28):
So if he's facing this way, he's getting ready to – the right-handed quarterback,
he's getting ready to try to throw. People who are in his vision, he can kind of move
and adjust from. But if a linebacker or a lineman comes from the back, and so who's
the one he can't see? Well, the closest guy and that tackle, that left tackle, if that

(39:52):
guy gets by him. So, but again, does that mean that, oh, he is – he might be the glorified
lineman, but hey, if the center lets the guy by.
Got a center. You say center?
Yeah. Like he's going to – he's still going to get sacked. Everybody's got to do

(40:13):
their job and I think that's part of the body. And at the end of the day, if everybody
does their job, we do well. But everybody's not going to get the glory.
Right.
But I think, you know, we see that. So do you know who Edward Kimball is?
No.
No. Not a familiar name for you. Not a familiar name for most people. Do you know who D.L.

(40:41):
Moody is?
Yeah. Oh, dude, are you going to go to the Salvation Army?
No.
No, okay.
D.L. Moody.
I know the name D.L. Moody, yeah.
Yeah, so D.L. Moody was – again, he was a Billy Graham of his day in a sense. He was

(41:03):
a Spurgeon of his day. He was a guy that was well-known as a man of faith, as a preacher,
and things were put into place by or because of him and because of some of that fame. Right?
So most people within Christendom, or at least in Protestant Christendom, know who D.L. Moody

(41:25):
is, or at least it's familiar.
Right.
You may not know who he is, but you've heard the name.
Yeah.
There's the Moody Bible Institute.
Yeah, in Chicago, sure.
Yeah. So that's D.L. Moody. Right? So that wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for D.L.
Moody. That came out of that. Edward Kimball was a Sunday school teacher who led D.L. Moody

(41:50):
to Christ.
Oh, man. Yeah.
Well, we don't know who – most of us aren't familiar with Edward Kimball.
Right.
But the reality is, if Edward Kimball – and the story is, as I understand it, Kimball
visited a shoe store where Moody was working and spoke to him about Christ. He shared Jesus

(42:16):
with him, and he got saved, and got called into ministry. And God did these awesome things
to D.L. Moody. But God did these awesome things to Edward Kimball, because without Edward
Kimball, all these awesome things – so who's more important? Jesus.

(42:47):
Yeah, Jesus is. It's exactly right.
Because it's God's work. I think within the church, too, DJ, one of the things that
we get backwards, and I do so often, and I know it, and I've preached it, and God has
preached it to me, and preached it to me, and preached it to me. So often, we are so

(43:10):
concerned about what we are doing for God. Where does God call us to do a lot of stuff
for him? Yes, he's called us to good works and those things, but I mean, he tells us
to abide in him with his strength, to walk in step with his Spirit, to seek his wisdom,

(43:32):
his will, his way, and that, as Paul says, I am convinced that he who started the work
in you will bring it about to completion. So whose work is it? God's.
So instead of us working for God – if I can put it this way – we're supposed to

(43:55):
kind of, in a sense, get in alignment with God's work in us. And getting the stuff
out of the way that is not allowing him to work in us the way he wants to. And sometimes
that means that we've got to humble ourselves and realize that it's not about us. It's

(44:18):
not about the glory. There is, Brad, in my life, there is always
a part of me, and I'm convinced that it will never go away, but there is always a
part of me that still wants the big stage. I can't tell you how much I know I would

(44:44):
love to be part of like a Dave Matthews band size group, but here's the thing. That's
not what God called me to do, and I had to come to terms with that. And not only is that
not what God called me to do, but when I look at the grand scheme of things, the way that

(45:05):
God built me, the woman that he had me marry, set apart for me to marry, the kids that he
knew we were going to have, that kind of lifestyle is not, or at least to this point in time

(45:27):
anyways, is not conducive. It doesn't match the other. And what, like, again, what you
mentioned earlier, you know, whose glory am I working for? I mean, do I always have the
option to say, you know what, it's my turn? Yes, I always have that option. Yes, I do.

(45:52):
But I know I can't take it. Why not? Because that's, again, that's not what God, that's
not, to this point in time, that is not what God has set me apart to do. And I know, I
even, I've even had this conversation with a fellow faculty member of mine who is in
fact one of the top 20 bass guitarists in the world, period. I mean, like hands down.

(46:17):
He is, he's that good. He knows that many people. He's been on that many records. Wonderful
guy. And we were talking about it one day, you know, and I kind of told him that. And
he's like, Tim said, you know, DJ, what you have to understand is that the choices that
you made are the ones that I didn't because he felt like God had set him apart to do the

(46:43):
other. And again, this comes right back to first Corinthians 12, the foot, the eye, the
ear, they cannot, they cannot complete the tasks that each other can. And, you know,
why should we not despise the ordinary? I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that the church

(47:04):
does despise the ordinary, but I think it's really, really easy in my lifetime, in my
life experience. It's really easy for church people to wish that they were doing bigger
and better things.
One of the things that I've said to our church, and we're a small church, you know, right

(47:29):
now we're probably running 60, 70 on a Sunday morning. So we're even smaller church than
we used to be. But I've told them, if we have 400 people here, and we had our bank accounts
are full, and we're doing all kinds of events, but those 400 people were people that were

(47:53):
already saved, that come from other churches, that just came over because it was cool over
here and we've got all this money and we're doing all these things, but people aren't
hearing the gospel, people aren't getting saved, then we failed as a church. But we'll

(48:16):
think we're successful.
That's exactly right. You do nail on the head right there. That's exactly right.
And so, you know, it's the obedience. So let me be honest. Let me be honest. Years ago,

(48:37):
you know, when God called me to be a pastor, we're going to this little church with my
mom and dad for a while, and wonderful little pastor there. It's amazing, a man named Philip
Bronk, and I have the utmost respect for him. But he was pastoring a church of like 12 people,

(49:08):
you know, and it was just, but he was sharing God's Word. He was being obedient. And I
remember at one point in my mind, in my own mind, just going, you know, tell me this is

(49:28):
not my future as a pastor. You know, just do that. And it was one of those times in
my life where I felt God's Spirit be like, how dare you? How dare you? Who do you think
you are? You will not downsize my son and my servant like that. As if his ministry is

(49:58):
less because there's not 10,000 people or a thousand people or a hundred people. He
is being obedient. He is preaching the Word, and he is doing what I've called him to do.
So don't you ever say things like that again. I said that in my head. But I needed it. I

(50:27):
needed that reminder because I was getting this, my dad would say a little too big for
my britches in my own mind. And I was looking at things the wrong way and God changed that.
And so, you know, Brother Philip, if you ever happened to listen to this podcast, one, I'm

(50:50):
sorry that I even thought that. God did correct me. And two, know that I love you and have
that most respect for you as a pastor and what you have done and what you are doing
and what God's doing through you matters. And it's important. And it doesn't have to
be grandiose in the sense that the world looks at it. Because if we're doing God's will and

(51:13):
he's working through us, it is automatically grandiose. And having said that, and I know
we're probably running short on time. We are. Yeah. I love the song, and I don't remember
who it's by. It's called Dream Small. Dream Small? Yeah. Josh Wilson. It's a Christian

(51:40):
song called Dream Small. Okay. Here's just a little bit of lyrics. It's a mama singing
songs about the Lord. It's a daddy spending family time. The world says he cannot afford.
These simple moments change the world. It's a pastor at a tiny little church, 40 years
11 on the broken and the hurt. Those simple moments change the world. Dream small. Don't

(52:04):
buy the lie. You got to do it all. Just let Jesus use you where you are, one day at a
time. And I think this is like heaven is going to be filled with people because of Jesus
Christ. Yeah. Right? Boom. That's it. Heaven is going to be filled with some people because

(52:26):
Jesus Christ used pastors and lay leaders and moms and dads and people that the world
would have said, this person isn't important. Because it's going to use the Edward Kimball's
that was never going to get the notoriety that D.L. Moody got. His name is never-

(52:54):
Right. He does not have a university named after him.
Right. Edward Kimball Bible Institute, probably never going to happen. But that's okay. Because
when we realized, one, it wasn't about Edward Kimball or D.L. Moody. It's about Jesus. And
God used them both in his way. And if they're obedient to him, then what? Well, when they

(53:22):
met Jesus, because both of them have gone on, they're well done. Well done. Come on
in, boy. Right.
Listeners, enjoy, embrace the ordinary. You want to talk about, and I'm going to say counter

(53:45):
cultural, but I certainly don't want to unpack it. This is the outro for the show, but be
counter cultural in that way. Embrace, enjoy, be thankful, be grateful, not just for the
ordinary, but that all of us at some point in time in our lives are ordinary. There is

(54:10):
nothing about anybody that is extraordinary without Christ. Just point blank. We can define
that as we will, but man, Jesus is the one that makes it or breaks it. So on that note,
listeners, thank you so much for hanging out with us. Thank you for being part of the

(54:32):
show. We love that you guys tune in, share the show with people that you know, let folks
know that you listen to the show. Again, if you're in the Jackson area, we can't stop
encouraging. Head over to Green Frog Coffee on the north side of Jackson. Today's show,
it's code word ordinary. That will give you $2 off, but we have a coupon code every Monday.

(54:58):
You can follow us on all the socials. Find us on our Facebook group page where we're
actually probably the most, not probably, we're certainly the most active there, but
rate and review our show on whatever podcast streaming platform that you use. But yeah,

(55:19):
contact us. Let us know what you think. Talk to us, interact with us. We want to hear from
you guys. So Brad, I certainly know that the Christmas season has already started to ramp
up big time. So everyone, be like in the Christmas season, it's almost like, it's almost weird
that this is one of the only seasons where the ordinary kind of is encouraged a little

(55:42):
bit more, but continue to be that ordinary, that constant consistent force of service
and love in the name of Christ. And on that note, Brad, I love you buddy. Love you too.
Listeners, we love you and we will catch you next time.