Primeval Week 1 - The Classroom Experience

Live coverage of the introduction to Genesis chapters 1-11 at First Methodist Hobbs, NM.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Let's open in prayer and we'll get started.

(00:11):
Father, like we always do, we just take a moment to pause and acknowledge the presence
of God the Holy Spirit among us and we welcome your ministry.
We just pray that we would help us to yield our minds and hearts to you during this hour.
We pray that you bless our conversations.
Father, we pray for a spirit of openness and freedom.

(00:34):
This is a venue where we retain some of our United Methodist heritage.
Open hearts, open doors, open minds.
And so we just pray that you bless us and help us to explore the mysteries and the things
of God together.
We love you.
It's in Jesus' name we pray.
And everybody said, Amen.

(00:55):
All right.
Now so as we go through the class, so what I've handed out to you is additional reading.
This is just like Revelation.
I like to choose the most controversial topics to talk about in my first year at a church.

(01:18):
But this is important information.
So the entire Bible is predicated on what's written in these chapters.
And so much in the Bible depends on the events that are recorded there.
And so it's really important that we learn to think about them in more advanced kinds

(01:42):
of ways.
So what I've handed out to you, so two things that people really get triggered on is whether
or not you're a literal seven day creationist or not.
Anybody want to take a guess as to where I'm going to land on that topic?

(02:06):
I am not, but I am also not our Darwinian evolutionist.
So I don't think those are the only two options.
So anybody that thinks that the earth was created out of this primordial soup and everything
randomly evolved from a single cell amoeba and you think the resurrection from the dead

(02:27):
is crazy?
Come on.
So I am a Job 39 creationist.
Anybody here ever read Job 39?
It's the one where God is scolding Job because Job's been questioning God this whole time.
And God says, Hey little guy, gird up your loins.

(02:50):
Let me tell you something.
Where were you whenever I XYZ?
So my position is I don't know how God created the earth and neither do you.
Right?
But I want us to guard against people who think that if I'm not a literal seven day
creationist, I must be a liberal.

(03:11):
You know, or if I don't necessarily think the flood of Noah was a global flood, there
are good reasons for thinking that, you know, now if you think the earth was created in
seven days, great.
I have no problem with that.
If you believe in random evolution from a single cell amoeba, amoeba.
Okay, great.

(03:32):
Really at the end of the day, none of us knows what we're talking about.
Right?
When it comes to these things.
And so my point would be all of those conversations are asking questions of the text that it was
never intended to address.
So you think about this Genesis chapters one through 11, who was it written to?

(04:03):
It would have been quite a while after Abraham.
Moses is attributed as the author, the children of Israel, but it was also a witness to a
pagan world that worshiped other gods.

(04:26):
Right?
So this book was not written to 21st century secular Western culture.
It was written to an ancient mythological world culture.
Now it was written for us, but it was not written to us.

(04:50):
You understand the difference?
And so if we're going to understand the text, that's one of the things we need to keep in
mind.
That's who the text is addressing.
A world that was riddled with people who worshiped pagan gods.
Now what you're going to find as you go through the course with me, that whenever we get into

(05:14):
the contents of the text and it begins to talk about these other beings, I don't believe
that the ancient world that worshiped pagan gods were complete idiots.
I don't think the Greco-Roman world was stupid because they worshiped pagan gods.
I believe those gods are real.

(05:37):
I believe there was a point in time in history where they had a much stronger interaction
with humanity than what we know and enjoy today, which is not having to interact with
those beings in a direct kind of a way.
But what the Bible is going to describe is where fallen angels come from, where demons

(05:59):
come from, why people worshiped these beings, the types of things these beings did as they
interacted with human beings.
I believe that was all real.
I believe that ancient mythology is based upon those interactions.
That ancient mythology was something that those people actually believed was true.

(06:19):
It wasn't myth to them.
That was their religion.
And so it wasn't until much later that people began probably what around, let's say, I'm
just going to guess at a number, between 200 and 500 BC is when people began abandoning
these stories as mythology.

(06:39):
But here's why it's so important.
As we learn from Revelation, there's coming a time at some point in the future where these
things will begin to manifest themselves again.
And this is why we study this material is because we don't, we're not going to be caught

(07:00):
off guard and duped by the coming great deception that is the number one thing Jesus warns us
about in the end times.
We're not going to be caught off guard and duped.
We're going to know what's going on and we'll know to stay out of the trap that is going
to be laid for the whole world to worship these things.

(07:22):
So let me start off with a little bit of a, any questions about any of that?
Points of conversation?
The earth was created in six days.
That is correct.
That is correct, Dandy.
You get up anytime you correct me, you get a, like a bonus mark for the day.

(07:45):
You'll get a gold star.
Yeah.
I'll make mistakes on purpose if you'll share the biscuits with me.
Okay.
Genesis one through 11.
Here's why we saw the chapter 11 Genesis one through 11 is a section of Genesis we
call primeval history and they call it primeval history because these things happened thousands

(08:07):
of years before they were ever recorded.
Now most of the things you're going to find in Genesis, you can find an ancient near Eastern
pagan literature and that was recorded before Genesis was according to the archeologists

(08:28):
and scholars.
Now let's say that's true because they like to say that Genesis borrowed from say Babylonian
or Acadian or Sumerian stories, creation accounts.

(08:49):
Just because they had the technology to write it down before the people of God did doesn't
mean they came up with it and we borrowed it from them.
You understand?
So this was reflects what most people speculate is oral tradition.
Now this is like standard academia.
I don't actually believe that.

(09:11):
I don't believe it's just based upon oral tradition because in the Dead Sea Scrolls
we have accounts of books that were handed down from the Patriot.
Well the, what would we call them?
Adam and his sons that were handed down and passed through the generations.

(09:39):
So one of these things from the Dead Sea Scrolls is referred to as the Book of Noah.
Now does everybody know what the Dead Sea Scrolls are?
I need to explain that just real briefly.
They were found in caves in Qumran, they're dated anywhere between 200 and 500 BC and the

(10:01):
testimony is that they were documents from the Old Testament Temple Library that were
taken by the Zadok priests so that they could preserve the information held by the Jewish
people.
So these are ancient sources and while we do not have a Book of Noah in existence today,

(10:26):
written material ascribed to Noah is mentioned in two books of Old Testament books that were
found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
And so you would find that in the Book of Jubilees and I'm not finding the other one

(10:47):
off the top of my head, it's not important, in the Book of Enoch.
So it refers to a book of Noah.
And so I believe that there were writings, so the, whenever we talk about authorship
of Genesis, Moses is credited not as being the author but the editor and compiler of

(11:09):
various Jewish traditions.
So the word that was thrown around when I was in Bible college was JEDP.
These are the four different sources they identify in the first five books of the Bible.
And Moses took this Jewish tradition and he edited it into an accurate reflection of what

(11:31):
actually happened.
And so I believe he probably was just having sources and whenever he edited it down, some
of this other stuff just got lost because what Moses handed this is what's really important
and authoritative.
So I don't buy that the stories in the Bible were borrowed from Sumeria or the Akkadians.

(11:54):
Or you could also say it like this, there was a flood, everyone experienced it, everyone
told their version of the story of what happened and why it happened.
Because it really happened.
So I think these stories are important and what we have in primeval history are a very

(12:17):
condensed version, now hear me on this, a very condensed version of massive events that
shaped the world that people were trying to figure out at the time of Moses.
Massive events condensed down into very simple stories.

(12:41):
So it's a very complex what happened and we're condensing it down into some very simple stories
because a lot of the detail just can't be recorded over thousands of years.
Now I say all that to say this and I don't want anybody to get triggered when I say this.

(13:03):
Right?
Because we've already used the word mythology.
I don't believe the ancient Greco-Roman record of their gods and how they came about and
what they did.
I don't believe it was fabricated or made up.

(13:23):
I believe these are real stories that took on a mythological character.
I'm going to quote C.S. Lewis.
Anytime I'm going to say something that might trigger someone I just bring up C.S. Lewis.
Right?
If you want to criticize C.S. Lewis good luck with that.

(13:44):
Here's what C.S. Lewis would say.
Now as myth transcends thought, incarnation transcends myth.
The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact.
The old myth of the dying god without ceasing to be a myth comes down from the heaven of

(14:09):
legend and imagination to the earth of history.
It happens at a particular date in a particular place followed by definable historical consequences
– we pass from a Balder or an Osiris, these are ancient gods, dying, nobody knows when
or where, to a historical person crucified.

(14:32):
It is all in order under Pontius Pilate.
By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth.
That is the miracle.
We must not be ashamed of the mythical radiance resting on our theology.
We must not be nervous about parallels and a pagan Christ.

(14:54):
They ought to be there.
It would be a stumbling block if they weren't.
In other words, these stories are so big and so ingrained in the image of God that we carry
as human beings, they have to be given expression to somehow even if we don't have the literal
thing yet.
You understand?

(15:15):
They ought to be there.
It would be a stumbling block if they weren't.
We must not, in false spirituality, withhold our imaginative welcome.
If God chooses to be mytho-poic and it is not the sky itself a myth, shall we refuse
to be mythopathic?

(15:35):
It's kind of hard to say.
For this is the marriage of heaven and earth.
Perfect myth and perfect fact.
Claiming not only our love and our obedience, but also our wonder and delight.
Addressed to the savage, the child, the poet, and each of us, no less than the moralist,

(15:57):
the scholar, and the philosopher.
We still good?
We still good, everybody?
Okay.

(16:23):
Let's talk about the word mystery.
The word mysterious is used 27 times in the New Testament.
It denotes not so much the meaning of the modern English term mystery, but rather something
that is mystical.

(16:44):
The term refers to that which awaits disclosure or interpretation.
In the Catholic Church, the Latin term is mysterium fidei, mystery of the faith.
To mean a mystery hidden in God, which can never be known unless it is revealed by God.

(17:05):
And so the mysteries of God are intended to arouse in us a sense of wonder, awe, curiosity,
delight, fascination, all ultimately leading to our ever increasing pleasure found in worship
of the uncreated being disclosed to us.
For the first time, with accurate precision, you know, God's trying to reveal himself

(17:32):
to everyone all the time, but here we have God revealing himself in an accurate, in a
clear, in a specific way.
And it is a pleasure and a delight to have these things disclosed to our minds and hearts.
So that being said, I want you guys, if you brought your Bible, to turn to the book of

(18:13):
Joshua with me.
Now we're going to get into the text, Genesis chapter one next week.
Here's going to be your study guide.
Last year, last semester we had my Revelation study guide.
This semester our study guide is going to be my podcast.

(18:33):
If you go to the foundrypress.org, it's called the Primeval podcast.
It's about 22 episodes.
They're about 20 to 30 minutes a piece.
I could just come in here and regurgitate this, that information, but I'd rather discuss
it with you, have you listen to it and discuss it with you.
So you can find it on pretty much any podcast outlet, but mine is so obscured, it'd probably

(19:01):
be buried in about a hundred other podcasts.
So if you just go to the foundrypress.org, search for primeval.
That's prime, P-R-I-M-E-V-A-L.
It's not prime-e-vil, primeval, A-L. P-R-I-M-E-V-A-L.

(19:27):
And that way you guys can maybe even do some research of your own.
And we come to class and we have some really cool conversations about what you've learned.
I think there's like 22 podcasts.
All before next week, didn't you?
No, no, no.

(19:48):
So if you look in the description, it'll tell you what the podcast is covering.
So I think probably maybe the first five episodes are just on chapter one.
Now I don't expect you to listen to all five of those episodes because some information
will really dig into, some information will kind of skip past.

(20:09):
But I'll tell you one of the interesting things you'll learn in that podcast.
This is kind of like a teaser for the whole, so you guys stick with me because I'm going
to tell you some crazy stuff.

(20:31):
Some of the books found with the Dead Sea Scrolls describe things like, what's the word?
Minotaurs?
Like the half goat, half man thing?

(20:54):
You know?
And when we read Genesis chapter six and it talks about hybrid beings that are created
because gods have in marital intercourse with women and they come up with these genetically
modified things that are not a part of God's good creation.

(21:17):
And the flood is in response to this corruption of the created order that God created, right?
When you talk about genetic manipulation of ancient people, well they built the Great
Pyramid of Giza, can you do that?
You know?
Have you ever heard of Gobekke Tepe?

(21:41):
You know the biblical timeline is, this is old, they traced it back, it's about a 6,000
year timeline.
Well that's biblical history.
Then you've got sites like Gobekke Tepe found in Turkey that are dated to around 10,000
BC.
Well what's up with that?

(22:01):
You know?
So there's a lot to this story and these are like really impressive structures that are
built by people that should be communicating in grunts and driving carts with square wheels.
You know?

(22:22):
What's up with that?
How do you explain that?
You know?
So it's interesting, there's this thing called the I Ching.
Have you ever heard of the I Ching?
This is an ancient Chinese calendar system I believe.
Thousands of years old.
The I Ching.

(22:44):
Modern geneticists will look at that and say it's an exact replica of human DNA.
We just mapped human DNA in like 2000 and here thousands of years ago you have these
ancient people with an exact replica of human DNA.

(23:05):
How do you give an account for that?
You know?
So there are just strange things that we're going to be discussing through the course
of this class.
So buckle your seatbelts.
Okay.
I'm going to read through Joshua chapter 24.

(23:25):
I'm reading from the NIV because my ESV Bible I left in the sanctuary and I didn't feel
like going and getting it.
When Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem, he summoned the elders, leaders,
judges, officials of Israel and they presented themselves before God.

(23:49):
Now there's two words in general used for God in the Old Testament.
You have Yahweh, which is the name for the God of Israel and you have Elohim.
So that's why J-E-D-P I mentioned, they're tracing two different sources.
Well, this author uses Yahweh for God.

(24:11):
This author uses Elohim for God.
J-E-D-P.
So now Yahweh is used exclusively of the God of Israel.
The word Elohim is simply a word that refers to any disembodied sentient spirit.
So it is not unique to the God of Israel.

(24:33):
For instance, whenever the ghost of Samuel is brought up from the dead and Saul, King
Saul says, I saw a ghost.
With the original Greek says, I saw an Elohim, a disembodied sentient spirit.
So it can refer to angels.

(24:54):
It can refer to the uncreated God because God is a spirit and those who worship him
must worship him in spirit and truth.
So and you're going to see that word used here as we go on in Joshua applying to different
beings.
Okay.
So there's only one uncreated God and that God has created a very diverse universe of

(25:20):
creatures that are only in existence as a consequence of his creative activity.
You understand?
So if we use the word God's plural, we're not saying there are other uncreated gods
that are equal with God.
There's just other beings that are much higher than humans, much more intelligent, much more

(25:41):
powerful that are like a God's in comparison to us.
They're not like God in comparison to the uncreated God.
Okay.
Verse two.
Joshua said to all the people, this is what the Lord, the God of Israel says long ago,
your forefathers, including Tara, the father of Abraham and Nahor lived beyond the river

(26:11):
and worshiped other gods.
Now that story is expanded upon in, I think maybe the book of Jubilees.
We get more detail about that story about how Tara actually served a character called

(26:34):
Nimrod we'll read about in Genesis chapter 10.
And Abraham did not go along with the political agenda of Nimrod and actually wound up going
to war against Nimrod.
You find that about that in other books, but here it is kind of referenced in Joshua.

(26:55):
Verse number three, but I took your father Abraham from the land beyond the river and
led him throughout Canaan and gave him many descendants.
I gave him Isaac and to Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau.
I assigned the hill country of Sayir to Esau, but Jacob and his sons went down to Egypt.
Then I sent Moses and Aaron and I afflicted the Egyptians by what I did there.

(27:18):
And I brought you out.
When I brought your fathers out of Egypt, you came to the sea and the Egyptians pursued
them with chariots and horsemen as far as the Red Sea.
But they cried to the Lord for help and he put darkness between you and the Egyptians.
He brought the sea over them and covered them.
You saw with your own eyes what I did to the Egyptians.

(27:41):
Then you lived in the desert for a long time.
I brought you to the land of the Amorites who lived east of the Jordan.
They fought against you, but I gave them into your hands.
I destroyed them from before you and you took possession of their land.
When Balak the son of Zippor, the king of Moab, prepared to fight against Israel, he
sent for Balaam the son of Bajor to put a curse on you, but I would not listen to Balaam.

(28:02):
And so he blessed you.
And so he he's just going on to point out.
Let's get down to verse 14.
Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness.
Throw away the gods your forefathers worshiped beyond the river and in Egypt and serve the

(28:25):
Lord.
But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day
whom you will serve, whether the gods of your forefathers.
They serve beyond the river or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living.
But it's for me and my household.
We will serve the Lord.

(28:46):
Then the people answered, far be it from us to forsake the Lord and serve other gods.
So when we talk about what's the point behind Genesis chapters one through 11 in the entire
Bible, it's about telling the story.
These other gods that people worship and if if you really kind of got the picture, we're

(29:09):
not talking about weird demons with fangs and horns.
You know, we're talking about angels that rebelled and these beings.
Whenever they appeared to someone even like the apostle John, when he is 90 years old,
you heard me talk about this in the Revelation class.
One of these beings appears and manifest to a 90 year old John who seen Jesus shining

(29:31):
like the sun on the Mount of Transfiguration.
He seen the dead raised.
He seen all kinds of amazing things.
He could not resist the urge to bow down and worship these things.
And so the Bible is trying to provide people with this perspective and the psychological

(29:52):
strength to resist the temptation to worship these other beings and to worship the one
true God.
So it's a narrative that is addressed to the entire world because remember God called Abraham
not just to bless Israel.
He said through you, I will bless all nations.

(30:13):
God wanted all the nations to turn from these practices and realize who alone is worthy
of worship.
And so these are the kinds of things we keep in our head as we read through Genesis chapters
one through 11.
These are the types of as we read through Genesis one through 11, isn't history like

(30:35):
we think of history.
You have to use your imagination.
You have to think about how these stories are much bigger and more complex than what's
actually recorded for us.
We know what we need to know.
But there's way more going on in this world than what we're just given in the text.

(31:00):
So okay, that's my that's my my rant over.
Any questions?
Now you realize I could probably do this for another two hours.
So if you guys don't pipe up and have something to say, I'll just I'll just keep going.
Vicki.
So a fellow was talking to me just today and he said like there's one third of the angels

(31:24):
who came down on Satan's side.
And you know, that is like, that's, that's true.
That's a that's a true statement.
But the Bible says the name that the angels are innumerable.
So that's a huge number.
You know, that's a huge number.
And then to go even further than that, demons aren't fallen angels.

(31:48):
According to the Book of Enoch, demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, which
were the hybrid things that were created from the the fallen angels and the daughters of
men.
So they are ugly, nasty looking creatures.
So where are these books you're talking about, the Book of Noah, the Jubilee and another

(32:13):
thing?
OK, so the Book of Noah does not exist.
They have fragments.
It's only referred to in other Dead Sea Scrolls as having existed.
Now the Book of Enoch does exist.
We have that in its entirety.
It was also found with the Dead Sea Scrolls.
So we know it's ancient.
The Book of Enoch is referenced three times.

(32:35):
It's quoted once in the New Testament.
That doesn't mean it's that it's canonical.
It just shows that it was important.
You know, somebody is in the Catholic Bible.
Yeah.
And the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the Book of Jubilees in their canon.

(32:57):
So yeah.
When you're saying like these beings that came, they came down, well that's not when
they went inside the women and the animals and they created these half animal half humans.
That's where they kind of came from.
Genesis chapter six tells that story.

(33:18):
The Book of Enoch tells that story with more detail.
Now what you're going to notice as you read through Genesis, that's not the only rebellion.
The first rebellion is in Genesis chapter three, where the serpent, which we'll show
you is not a talking snake, okay.

(33:38):
The serpent engages in the first rebellion.
Genesis chapter six is the second one.
You'll see another one.
It's not explicitly stated in the Tower of Babel story.
I will show you how likely that is a similar type of incursion of these beings.
And then you'll read about it also.

(33:58):
We won't get to Deuteronomy 32, but it's also discussed in Deuteronomy 32, how there's
just kind of an ongoing battle or a war going on.
So yes, that's where the flood story starts.
But right before the flood story starts, it talks about the, the, the, on the earth, the

(34:25):
thoughts of the hearts of man was only evil all the time.
You know, so, yeah.
Are we going to get to Genesis today?
I want to kind of get you guys in the right frame of mind before we actually start reading
the text and to let you know where I'm coming from.

(34:45):
And if I say something weird, why it doesn't sound right to you.
You know, if I'm talking about it like it's, if I were talking about, like we got to the
Garden of Eden story and the snake and I started saying, now it's not really a snake.
You understand why it's a metaphor for something that that's much more complex that really

(35:07):
can't adequately be described with precision.
You know, like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
And you see Thielot, well, that was it, was it an apple tree or an orange tree?
And it completely, those kinds of things completely missed the point because all it represents
is a choice.
It's a, it's a figure, a metaphor that represents a choice.

(35:30):
You can be obedient to God or you can go and follow your own will.
You know, so as I get, if I start saying things like that and I have people get, I've had
people get triggered when I say that it wasn't a literal snake.
You know, people think it was a person like standing up and down until God made him crawl

(35:52):
in the belly.
Yeah.
But it was all simple.
That's right.
That's right.
Nandy.
Yeah.
So what else?
What else you guys want to discuss?
So let's go change.
This is going to be fun.

(36:12):
I'm so glad we've got Shannon in this class.
In Genesis when it talks about who created Adam and Eve, it says we will create them
in our image.
So does that mean the uncreated God didn't create humans, that these other gods created
humans?
See, okay, I'll tell you the options.
Now most of the time I'll tell you my opinion.

(36:33):
I'm going to tell you the options.
That is the royal language kings used to speak of themselves in the ancient world.
So the king would speak of himself in the royal eye because he represented the whole
kingdom.
Right?
That's one option.
The other option is it's God giving his first expression of his Trinitarian nature.

(36:57):
Okay.
Now the option that I prefer, that I get from, now if you guys have never heard of Michael
Heiser, he died recently.
I was a big fan of his work.
So I would highly recommend his book, The Unseen Realm.
The other option is that God administers the affairs of the universe from what is called

(37:23):
the divine council.
So let me, I'll just read this real quick.
Psalm 82.
If you want to read, go to Psalm 82 with me.

(37:49):
Psalm 82 verse one.
Okay.
God presides in the great assembly.
He gives judgment among the gods.
How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked, defend the cause

(38:13):
of the weak and the fatherless, maintain the rights of the poor oppressed, rescue the weak
in need, deliver them from the hand of the wicked?
They know nothing.
They understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness.
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
I said, you are gods.
You are all sons of the most high.
Whenever you see sons of God in the Old Testament, that's almost always referring to angels.

(38:33):
Not always, but almost always.
But you will die like mere men.
See, this is God judging these beings who are said to populate his great assembly.
You will fall like every other ruler.
Rise up, O God, judge the earth for all the nations are your inheritance.

(38:55):
So this is what Dr. Heiser refers, I think the Bible refers to as the divine counsel.
So whenever you see the scene in Isaiah where God is wanting to pronounce judgment on King
Ahab and he's consulting with the royal court, what should we do about King Ahab and his

(39:17):
filthy evil?
And this spirit comes up and says, I think we should do this and this, I think we should
do this.
And then the lying spirit comes up and says, I'll be a lying spirit in the mouth of his
prophets.
And God says, that's a good idea.
Go with that.
So you see these evidence of God making decision in counsel with other beings.

(39:38):
Now that's important when it comes to the book like Revelation, because it tells us
our future is to participate in ruling the earth as kind of like that's his heavenly
counsel where his earthly counsel, you know,
Go ahead.
It also says we enter into his courts and that there is a host of witnesses and he says

(39:59):
as it is in heaven, so as it is in us.
And there's no barrier to keep us from that.
Once you break through that realm that you're talking about.
I've been seated in heavenly places.
Amen.
Right?
So the we is referring to the divine counsel, according to Dr. Heiser.

(40:23):
And so that's, I think all of those are good explanations to be honest with you.
But I think that's probably the best.
So these sub gods created by the creator, how many were there?
It says they're innumerable.
Yeah.
So it also says, if I might add, that is in the days of old, it shall be again.

(40:50):
So there's nothing new under gods, under the sun.
And these same deities, because they're not the deity of Christ, these same deities are
coming back in full force now, because that's part of the word revelations, which we're
fixing to experience.
So with this information, this man has given us, you're going to be equipped to kick some
of the things.

(41:12):
Okay, so I'll say this.
Now, I don't think this is a good interpretation, but I kind of, I want to support what you're
saying.
Jesus is teaching about the end times in Matthew chapter 24.
And he makes the statement as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days coming
of the son of man.
Now, he goes on to explain that men will be given to women in marriage.

(41:35):
People will go on about their normal lives, just like it was in Noah's day.
And then the flood came.
So really the proper interpretation is that everybody's going to be going on with life
as usual, and they're going to be completely shocked when Jesus appears in the sky, just
like it was in Noah's day.
But I'm not going to rule out it might mean something else too.
Well, let me say it, that he was not pleased with Noah's day, the days of Noah, Jesus

(42:01):
was not pleased.
It really hurt his heart.
That things that were going on, like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Yes ma'am.
Okay, let me see where we're at time-wise.
See, you take something like the Tower of Babel, which almost everyone agrees was a

(42:31):
Mesopotamian ziggurat, which was nothing more than a giant temple, right?
And so the symbology is like a mountain.
The gods came down to meet with humans on the mountain, so they built an artificial
mountain to meet with their gods.
And at the top of these, and you guys realize pyramids are a worldwide phenomenon, it wasn't

(42:52):
just something that happened in Egypt or Babylon or Mexico for that matter, these are found
all over the world.
And they're usually based on the constellation Orion.
What's up with that?
Straight eagle.
Yeah.
And so the priest would ascend and there would be, usually the signs of the zodiac were in

(43:19):
the domed top of the ziggurat.
And that was where humans would go and meet with their gods.
And I would suspect, so if you look at the story of Genesis, you've got the original
fall.
God wants to stop human beings from advancing in evil, so it kicks them out of the garden

(43:42):
of Eden.
They continue their relationship with these rebellious angels.
God sends the flood to try and stop the advancement of evil.
All of these are acts of mercy for God to stop the evil from progressing.
After the flood of Noah, you're going to see something weird goes on with the created order

(44:02):
because all of a sudden human beings are told they can eat meat now.
In Genesis 1, they're just given vegetables to eat after the flood of Noah.
Now you guys need to eat meat now and by the way, you're only going to live 120 years now.
He's trying to stop human beings from becoming sophisticated in evil.
And so their response to that is the Tower of Babel.

(44:25):
God has kind of placed this separation between the natural and the supernatural world.
Some people would say there's a veil between, a veil of separation between the supernatural
and the natural world to keep these beings from corrupting humanity.
And humanity tries to overcome that by building a mountain where they can go and reconnect
with these gods.

(44:45):
And they were probably successful.
Human beings were probably capable of manifesting these beings, which is what led to the next
step.
Now here's why I say this is important.
You guys know I ain't scared.
I'll say it.

(45:09):
Let's talk about aliens and UFOs for a minute.
If you are not aware of how this narrative is progressing in our culture, you've been
living under a rock.
Okay, especially in the past two or three years, they keep ratcheting up.

(45:39):
We have military personnel coming out and saying things like this.
Now we're not talking about crazy people.
We're talking about very high ranking, high classification, PhD people.
They were a part of special operations where they used their consciousness to manifest

(46:06):
these crafts.
And they even documented on video.
Okay?
Now I don't know what to think about that, but I do know that the best thinking on this

(46:29):
is that these things function outside of the boundaries of what we know of physics.
But it's more like paranormal activity than it is extraterrestrial activity.

(46:49):
And I would suspect it is going to have something to do with the great deception that Jesus
talks about.
And so you're going to see, this is why people have predicted that paganism is going to grow
because secularism has left people hollow and empty, but it's also carved out Christianity
and it's left this space that people are going to fill with the scientific religion.

(47:14):
And the UFO narrative is going to be the perfect thing to do it.
So I'll say this, you guys know who Werner von Braun is?
He was a part of a project paperclip where all the Nazi scientists came to the United
States.
And so he was one of those Nazis that started, he ran the NASA space program for us.
He built the NASA space program.
Nazi did that.

(47:36):
A Nazi landed us on the moon, if you believe that happened.
He had a secretary, Dr. Carol Rosen, R-O-S-E-N, so you can Google this for yourself.
And Dr. Carol Rosen is still alive and she tells this story of when Werner von Braun

(47:58):
was nearing death, he told her, Carol, you need to remember this.
They're going to try and establish a global government and they're going to use, I'm not
going to get this perfectly right, five key steps to accomplish it.

(48:18):
First it's going to be the threat of a nuclear war.
Then it's going to be nations of concern, like terrorist nations.
Then it's going to be like asteroids.
And the last thing, Carol, remember this, the last thing is they're going to warn us

(48:38):
about a coming alien invasion and it's all going to be a lie.
That's a thing that people speculate about.
They can use holographic images to dupe troops and stuff.

(49:01):
But it could be a part of this thing, I don't know.
I'm just saying that these beings are real.
The Bible predicts they're going to manifest again and I believe they are going to be intent
upon a massive deception that they are going to garnish the loyalty of masses of people

(49:22):
who are, and Jesus warns in Matthew 24, if possible, even the elect are going to be deceived
by it.
There are many sitting duck Christians that are half-hearted, lukewarm and lazy in their
faith that are going to buy into it.
I told you guys Sunday about a friend of mine that I went to high school with him.
He was always a real faithful Christian.
I painted with him for four years.

(49:43):
We talked about Jesus all day.
And he's went off the deep end with this internet gobbledygook, you know, because of you've got
things like this that people don't know what to make of it.
They've been shamed into not talking about it or thinking about it.
And so...
Well, I went to Roswell.

(50:04):
I believed in three figures they had in that museum.
The little people.
That's why they got D2.
R2D2?
Well, that's why it's just important to understand.

(50:25):
God talks about things that are hard for us to wrap our mind around based upon our reality.
You know, and most people throughout all of history have lived very normal, mundane lives.
But every once in a while in history, something really wild happens that completely changes

(50:46):
things and people aren't prepared for it and don't know what to make of it.
And so God has given us a record of all of these things that is accurate.
It's not telling us fairy tales.
Right?
These are real beings.
These are real stories.
We need to take them seriously and be prepared to not be surprised.

(51:09):
So, okay, any other questions?
I think I've killed almost all of our time.
Do you think we're the only universe?
I don't know.
If there were other universes, it wouldn't surprise me.

(51:31):
It wouldn't disrupt my faith any whatsoever.
But I do get the sense from scripture that the earth is special to God.
The earth is special.
Human beings are special.
We are created in the image and likeness of God.
Now the angels are as well.
The angels are the sons of God and we are the sons of God.

(51:52):
You know?
But we are, what makes humans unique in comparison with angels is that we are evolving.
That's what sanctification is all about.
You know?
And we have the capacity to grow in the image and likeness of God, whereas angels are kind
of static.

(52:12):
And so if God is infinite in being, how much growth potential do we have as human beings?
That's why, well, I'll just say it.
The ancient fathers had this saying, I'm not talking about one of them, I'm talking about

(52:34):
they were consistent in saying this.
God became a man so that man might become.
Now this is what the Eastern Orthodox Church refers to as theosis.
So they have an entire theology developed around this concept.
In Methodist churches we call it Christian perfection, it's the same thing.

(52:56):
Christian perfection is about having the image of God fully restored and repaired in us.
When we say that we're Christians, what are we saying?
We are like Christ.
And so there is infinite growth capacity in human beings to look more and more and more

(53:20):
like their dad.
That's all we're saying.
Look and act and give expression to the image of God.
So and that's going to be a big part of Genesis chapter one.
So okay, good talk.
Any other questions?

(53:40):
Does somebody want to volunteer to pray us out of here?
Okay.
Father, thank you for today.
Thank you for the food that we received and the fellowship that we had and Lord thank
you for your word that you have given us.
Thank you for the pastor and the wisdom that you've given us Father God and thank you for
putting it in our hearts to want to learn more.

(54:01):
I pray that as we go through this father that you will just continue to reveal your truths
to us or that you will help us to be open to receive your word Father God and just grow
closer to you and closer and understanding Father God.
And I just ask that you bless these sessions that we have.
In Jesus name we pray.
Amen.
How many weeks is this class?

(54:24):
13.
That's not 10.
13.