November 5, 2024 • 31 mins
Beverage Trade Network founder Sid Patel joins the podcast to talk about the importance of B2B, trade marketing, and more for small to mid-sized brands.
Host Jimmy Moreland and special guest cohost MaryAnn Pisani chat with Sid about maximizing your ROI from a great competition result, what metrics really matter when you're just getting started, and how to get the most out of attending one of the many events run by Beverage Trade Network.
More about Beverage Trade Network: Website
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep
dives into various aspects ofthe alcohol industry.
My name is Jimmy Moreland.
Mhw is a US and EU beveragealcohol importer, distributor
and service provider.
Today I am thrilled to welcomeback to the show, as a guest
host, mhw's own Marianne Pisani.
Welcome back, marianne.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you, Jimmy.
I'm glad to be here.
I think I like being on thisside better than being a guest.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now I looked back in the archive of the MHW Mark
podcast and it was episode fivethat we had you on.
And isn't it wild that we'vebeen at this thing for over a
year and we finally got you back.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I can't believe it's been over a year and it
seems like I was on yesterday,so that is truly a sign of age.
The time is going much fasterthan it used to.
But yeah, it does feel likeprobably.
It was my nerves just probablysettled, since I felt like, you
know, I was on.
I'm not much for being on andbeing interviewed.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, it's funny.
I like to joke about CassidyPoe roaming the halls of MHW
with a blow dart gun trying tobag my next co-host.
So I appreciate you comingalong willingly.
Now I want to talk about.
We've got a great conversationtoday with a great guest who has
a lot of really cool and veryapplicable useful advice for
(01:28):
brands in particular.
But listeners will have seenthe title on their phones or
wherever they're listening B2Btrade marketing.
Can you tell me what does thatmean?
What is B2B trade marketing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so before you can get the consumer excited
about your product, you've gotto get the buy-in from
distributors and retailers tocarry your product.
This is a three-tier system.
It seems like you can go directto them with e-commerce sites,
but that is a small portion ofthe alcohol beverage industry.
(02:02):
It's a heavy product to shipand it's breakable, so it's not
the easiest thing to ship andthere's a lot of laws that
prevent it.
So in the traditionalthree-tier system, if you want
to sit on the shelf or behindthe back bar or in a restaurant,
you've got to get the buy-infrom the distributors and the
(02:22):
retailers to get it there.
So that's your first people youhave to to get it there.
So that's your first people youhave to attract.
Is other business, so that'sthe B2B Business to business.
You've got to get theirattention and then you can work
on getting the consumer'sattention.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I think that's a perfect way to set the stage, so
let's go ahead and get into ourinterview today with our guest.
Our guest today has been in thewine and spirits industry for
over 18 years.
He is the founder of BeverageTrade Network, a company that
owns some of the world's leadingevents and trade shows.
Welcome, sid Patel.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Thank you so much, Jimmy, for having me in your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So, sid, thank you first of all for being here, and
we've known each other a longtime and MHW has managed your
compliance for many of yourshows.
How did you get your start inbeverage alcohol?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So I think in around 2006, that's 18 years ago, I
launched my own wine brandcalled Friday Monkey, out of
Australia.
So that was a private label.
A lot of my family owned liquorstores around New Jersey,
delaware, maryland area.
So it was a little bit of apart-time sort of thought that,
(03:29):
you know, let me get a containerand get started with this
private label.
And at that time, yellowtail,little Penguin, jacob's Creek
all Australian wines were likeselling.
You know, $7.99 was thecategory.
I thought let's just buildsomething.
So that's how I got started,you know, with literally the
family support and, as you know,a lot of Indians own liquor
stores in that area.
So they all supported me atthat time and that part-time
(03:53):
thing became a big business.
I mean, I grew that business youknow, 200,000 cases over like
five, six years and I did, youknow, use a company which you
may recall, at that time wascalled American Drinks USA, like
MHW and Park Street.
So I was completely using thismodel, which I'm a big fan of.
I used the third-partylogistical infrastructure model
(04:15):
and that's exactly how I builtmy brand.
Fast forward, perfect storm hitme and that business went to
zero.
Then I started Beverage TradeNetwork, which is a platform
that grew because of thataudience.
I started trade shows and thenwe started competitions and we
have the ecosystem now iscompetitions, media assets and
(04:38):
trade shows.
So we have this global platformright now.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
That seems trade shows I can imagine are a huge
lift, is it just?
Is it all consuming puttingtogether something like that?
I can imagine it's a lot ofwork putting together a trade
show.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I think, yeah, I mean to be honest, we do very I mean
not super large format shows,jimmy, you know it's just about
100 to 120 exhibitors.
So it's more B2B, high-end B2B,you know, like big buyers, big
sellers, sort of trade shows.
So, logistically, I think nowthat I'm into almost, you know,
12th year of the trade shows,the nerves are calm.
(05:17):
But yes, you're right, likewhen we were just initially
getting started, the pressurewas high and I think the thing
that still worries me is justthe visitors.
In that first hours walking in,rest, all is fine, you know,
like how many visitors are goingto come to the show is just the
pressure bit.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So for brands who are going to come to these trade
shows.
Why do brands want to thinkabout B2B and trade marketing
and why do they need to come toyour shows?
And I guess, why is that partof it more important, or as
important, or a good piece ofthe puzzle, if you will, in
their overall broader marketingstrategy?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Sure.
So I think a lot of brands youknow spend their ad dollars or
marketing dollars in creatingconsumer sort of campaigns first
, whereas you know I am a bigbeliever that for the first
three years all your moneyshould go in trade marketing.
Now it doesn't have to be thetrade show, but what I mean by
that is every single dollar hasto be used to get in front of
(06:14):
trade.
Now, depending on what'sworking, what your budgets are,
you know, if you just have asmall budget for a B2B magazine
ad which the New Jersey liquorstore buyers read and your
target is New Jersey, that'swhere you go.
For example, if you're aimingfor a Midwest area let's say we
do a show in Chicago, you cometo our show.
If you're aiming for finding aninternational importer, if
(06:38):
you're an overseas winerylooking for an importer, then
you figure out that shows.
But my point here is like youshould spend all your money in
trade that way.
The second element is you knowyou should spend money in any
trade activity that gets youplacement.
And the third money you shouldspend in trade again, which
drives depletion Go in theretail and you know you really
(06:59):
want their buying right.
So you have to build that trust.
You can offer them Fridaytastings, saturday tastings,
depending on where it's legal,whatnot?
Guys right, obviously.
So you look at the market, youwork with the distributor and
then that way you can offer them.
But the idea is you come backto that store and offer them
some sort of programming todrive depletions or some sort of
incentive, whatever is legaland allowed in that state.
(07:19):
So break it down in newintroductions, placements and
depletions, but all in trade.
That's what I would advise.
Till you have a massdistribution, no point thinking
about big consumer magazines oradvertisements.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And say how does the Beverage Trade Network connect
with brands and criticalindustry partners like MHW?
How do you do?
What kind of outreach do you doin marketing?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
As I said, like before, we have the ecosystem,
so we have again media assets,so we write good stories about
the brands that get in front ofthe trade.
That is one, you know,journalism approach.
And then we obviously socialmedia, those articles and
whatnot.
A goal for us as a company isalways to connect buyers with
sellers.
So most of my time also goes toinfluence these buyers and to
(08:07):
build that community of buyersby giving them what they want to
consume, right.
So that is one way of usingcontent.
The second way is the tradeshows, where we invite the key
buyers, key stakeholders of ourindustry, as speakers or in the
cocktail parties, our VIP guestsor just as a buyer.
You know if they're looking fora new product, so they would.
(08:28):
That is one way we get them,and then you know they would
meet the brands there.
So that is a face-to-faceconnection that we aim for.
And then the third would be ourcompetitions, which is, you
know, let's say, the topcategory winners.
One Shiraz of the year is therein our competition, but now you
know, did I actually have thatwine buyer or a restaurant buyer
or a sommelier add that intheir wine list?
(08:50):
So you know, my goal is to makesure that this trade buyers
actually get influenced withwhat we're doing and actually
buys that and stocks that Shirazof the Year, right.
So we do a few things.
To go a little precise here,let's say we have annually four
buyers meet Zoom calls, where 50of our key judges and trade
(09:11):
buyers attend the top categorywinners call.
It's like a Shark Tank stylefive-minute pitch they all do to
the actual buyers on Zoom.
So that's one way we give themthat opportunity.
Obviously, apart from all thestraight show things, we do that
as well, right?
So that's just one example, butthe more we go every year, we
try to go deeper and deeper on.
How are we actually connectingthe buyers and sellers even more
(09:33):
, even more, even more.
That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Sid, you said you're running roughly like a dozen or
so events per year at this point.
Can you talk to us about someof those events?
I know that you said some ofthe things that happen at those,
but can you just give us alittle bit more background?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Sure.
So our main markets are US, UK,China, and then we do a small
event in Paris as well.
So in that we have aninternational bulk wine and
spirit show that we do in SanFrancisco and London.
So that is one of the importanttrade shows that we cater to
for private label bulk wine andbulk spirits industry and that's
(10:10):
where the buyers that arelooking for, you know, creating
private labels or control labelsor even bulk wine, if a winery
wants to buy or bulk spirits,you know the distillery wants to
buy.
They would be sort of thepeople that would come to that
show.
Then there is a brand lookingfor importers, distributors and
retailers, trade shows, which is, you know, UK trade tasting,
(10:31):
USA trade tasting.
We're launching China tradetasting in Hong Kong.
So that is a typical brandlooking for importers and
distributors, right.
And then the competitions wise,our biggest is the London
competitions, where Londonspirits competition is, I think,
now the world's third biggestafter San Francisco and IWSC.
So we do 4,500 entries inLondon competitions and
(10:52):
sommelier's choice awards is abig one in US, in Chicago, where
brands looking to get in frontof sommeliers would submit their
wines.
And then the USA wine ratingsis where the national retail
wine buyers or the regional winebuyers, like supermarket buyers
, would be coming in right.
So I can keep going, but I'llstop there because I don't want
to talk much about our events,but yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
We'll have links for people to check out later.
They can look in the show notesand they can check out links
and they can do their ownresearch and look all this stuff
up themselves.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, congrats on the London show being so big.
I didn't realize I'm familiarwith your US shows.
I wasn't familiar with that one, so congrats.
That's quite an accomplishment,sid, to be the third largest.
Wow, very impressed.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, thank you to be the third largest.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Wow, very impressive, yeah, thank you.
So, sid, research shows thatdouble blind tasting competition
awards are critical for wineand spirits brands to credential
their taste and set them aparton the shelf.
In today's world, shelf canmean the e-commerce graphics
that accompany a product online.
Tell us about your competitionsin terms of what have you seen
(12:02):
brands do to operationalize theawards?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
So let's break it down in the categories.
So, for example, if it's thevirtual retail, the traditional
retail model, you know, the bestway I would advise, and how
many smart brands would be doing, is updating their point of
sale.
So the shelf talkers would havethe logo, you know, the case
cards would have the logo, let'ssay the gold medal, and the
score.
Then comes the package itself,Like if it's a new vintage, and
(12:28):
if they have a chance to putthat in the artwork of the label
itself, they would add thatthere as well, and that would be
sort of the traditional retailsort of upgrade that they can do
if they've got a medal.
The e-commerce side is veryinteresting to me.
So, for example, in that aswell, you know, I've noticed
smart players and big brandsreally understanding this
(12:50):
psychology of SEO and of whatthe psychology of the online
buyer is.
So what again, what they're,what people are doing, is
they're sending an updateddescription to, let's say, big
chains like Total Wine.
It's worth an effort to askTotal Wine because it's going to
be a massive e-commerce update,right, and it does pop out
early.
(13:10):
So if someone's just searchingcompetition winners in Total
Wine, search like I'm lookingfor the best Shiraz, but if it's
written in the description bestShiraz at London wine
competition, for example, itwill pop up high.
So it's a very tactical thingthat a smart you know you have
to understand.
It's still an SEO under SEO.
So if you know how to play thatgame, it really helps.
(13:32):
And in fact it helps Total Winebecause a clear case study they
can put in front of them thathey, my brands will sell on your
.
I can really become the topselling Shiraz from that,
because I've just won this and Iknow if you updated and showed
the medal.
The problem is with the online.
There is no sommelier or humantalking to the consumer.
(13:52):
So anything that you can dovisually and using your amazing
words and storytelling in thecaptions, that will help.
So I think that's what peopleare doing in e-commerce.
And the last bit is sommeliersand the restaurants.
So that's where I don't thinkso much of sommeliers don't want
to sort of promote so much ofthese competitions and whatnot,
because it's still they wanttheir own way of storytelling.
(14:14):
Like you know, okay, this is afarmer, this is a story.
This is da-da-da, you know.
Like you know, okay, this is afarmer, this is a story, this is
da-da-da, you know.
So I have not seen much and Idon't think that you know you
should ask a sommelier to sortof add it in the wine menus and
whatnot.
So I've not seen that much.
But it's okay, you know, aslong as it's a house pour or
something like a merchandise isthere or a bar mit is there,
that's where you can play with,to show, and but again, the
(14:38):
sommelier is not using theirwords to sort of sell their
service, Right?
So it's just the merchandise ofthe restaurant which they're
using in that case.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I like that, the idea of sort of like, how do you
have the digital version of?
We've all seen, like thecollars that they put on bottles
, or you know the tags thatthey'll they'll have on the
shelf there at the stores.
But having that digital versionis definitely a challenge.
That's really interesting.
Sid, you know, in your nearlytwo decades in the industry, can
you share with us some of thethings that you've seen in your
(15:10):
day?
Or you know what you've seenchange over these past two
decades in your particular spacein the market?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I think it's just becoming tougher and tougher.
One of the things that surely Imean it was all this stuff, it
was all this the buyer's market.
And now it's even more of thebuyer's market, because the gap
of supply and demand is justgrowing.
And one of the classic problemswhich I think this day is less
importers and distributors andmore consolidation, and we've
(15:38):
just not returned back.
It's just going every year it'sgoing less and less and less,
so which is a bottleneck, whichmeans, you know, there is the
whole world of Southern andGlazers and R&DC, and then there
is this mom and popdistributors, you know, and
there are Budweiser's in theworld and there are this craft
beers.
So there is a big problem andwhich is just growing,
unfortunately.
(15:58):
And then, as you know, like youknow, the reality of which I
advise and which brand ownersand entrepreneurs should really
understand, it's the game hascompletely changed to
self-distribution.
There is nothing calleddistributor now, it is all
self-distribution.
Even if you use MSW or not,even if you have a distributor,
it is still a self-distributiongame.
So that's exactly how I did mybusiness and that's how every
(16:22):
single brand that has movedbeyond 100,000 cases they
understood from day one.
It is all about self-knocking,self-distribution, so that has
not changed.
It's just that people who havedone it have succeeded.
You know no one else is goingto talk about your product, no
one else is going to sell yourproduct, and that's the reality.
So you know, I think that'swhat I've seen more and more.
So there were a fewdistributors, but even that now
(16:48):
is becoming a problem andobviously lately the shifts in
the headwinds in wine category,the people drinking less, no and
low coming up, you know.
So we're getting a little bitof headwinds here and there, but
I think you've got to.
You know, wait and navigate.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
To that end.
Do you see the beverage alcoholsector embracing the no and low
?
Do you think that's the way forthis?
Not to hurt beverage alcohol isfor us to embrace it and
realize that it's part of theshow, right?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah.
So you know, like I personallyapply this philosophy where you
know you don't need to think andapply your brain so much when
the big guys are doing it.
So it's like the old sayinggoes follow the money.
So when, if Gallo forget aboutthe edge of Gallo is doing RTD
and doing a no and low, can youknow that means something's
going on right.
Second thing is a dollar todayis more than $2 tomorrow.
So I believe in that as well,which means you got to survive
(17:40):
today, which means you know,even if I have to.
You know, a lot of times it'seasy to say, but a lot of times
this winery or distillery hasthat legacy and they can
obviously just grow merlot fromthat region.
They can't just come up, youknow, with another thing.
Just it's not like privatelabel, right.
So so what I would advise is alittle bit of a navigation, or a
small batch, or even anoffering, a pallet.
(18:00):
What you don't want to do islose the shelf placement, you
know, as we chatted a few daysago.
So do not lose shelf placement,because we know, being from the
industry, we know that thatspot is the golden spot the
moment you're gone, because thecategory is going low, you know
gone.
So if I was a salesperson, Iwould say hey, I understand,
(18:20):
maybe, australian Shiraz, you'redecreasing the thing, but
you're increasing the low and no.
So let me go there now with myno and low, but do not kick me
out entirely, so I would notlose the account.
That's where I'm going with,you know.
So, if you have to innovate,innovate but do not lose your
distributor.
Do not lose your account.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And indicators.
Do you see, uh, that a brandhas longevity versus that it's
just a trend and popularity.
Maybe this is a good segue fromtalking about no and low,
because I know there's a lot ofbelief that those are trends,
like I've seen.
You know, celebrity brands arehuge, right, but so many of the
celebrity brands end up to be aflash in the pan, and what I've
(19:00):
seen is if the celebrity istruly, truly engaged and they're
truly owning it on their socialmedia and wherever they go, you
know, kind of George Clooneybeing on the side of the
Southern trucks, right sittingthere, you know, having his
Casamigas helped a lot, right so.
But then there's othercelebrities who think, just by
(19:21):
putting their name on it, that'sgoing to be enough, and we know
that isn't right.
So what have you seen are signsof longevity?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
So I think you're going to I think maybe it's the
simplest answer in one sentencethat longevity should be
measured by the repeat purchaseof the end consumer.
If the same person is drinkingmy product again and again not
the retail buyer, not thesommelier, not the Walmart If
that person, the last buyer, istaking my product at home and
(19:51):
coming back next Monday andtaking it again and coming back
next Thursday and taking itagain, that's called longevity
in the brand.
And coming back next Thursdayand taking it again, that's
called longevity in the brand.
You know that is the only thingthat is there.
And the duration, obviously youknow.
So that person like Jack Danielis the ultimate example of you
know the loyalty right, so like,if you have, the longer that
(20:12):
person stays with your brand,that's it.
Then you're building in roots.
And then the second trade wayof longevity how I measured when
I was selling, is how manymenus am I being printed inside,
how many shelf places I'm goingin Not the floor stack how many
menu like on the shelves I'mgoing in, how many programmings
(20:33):
I'm going inside Like ablueprint, how many tattoos you
know restaurants are like, youknow what I mean Like menus
inside.
So that's called like okay,finally they decided to put me
in, so that means I'm long-termfor that restaurant.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This may be a stupid question, but it's born of
ignorance.
When you talk about thatlongevity, that sort of
individual consumer coming backagain and again to your brand,
does that individual level data,like sales data, exist?
Is that something that you haveto infer or is the hard data
available and it's somethingthat brands can access?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
so a good question.
It's just one, one sentenceaway.
If you go to any retailer, theretailer, that person will know
that, hey, mary walked in,mary's just going to buy that
yellow tell shiraz, becausethat's what mary just buys and
comes and immediately goes inthere, you know.
So the buyer knows what'shappening.
If you just ask the buyer that,hey, do I have some loyal
customers?
And believe it or not, theyknow every customer that who's
(21:30):
buying this, who's buying that,who's the regular?
You know, and that's how theyincrease that order.
The moment they see there is asubtraction and they've built
the regulars, that's when theyincrease your order size.
You know.
So it's really the pulse ofthat retailer.
But yeah, there is no way youcan measure that data.
I mean, to be honest, you knowthe data can be measured at the
depletion in the software of theretailer, but not like John
(21:52):
bought it or Mary bought it, youknow Right, and so on, unless
they're having a CRM.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
To be honest, know right and so on, unless they're,
they're having a crm.
To be honest, jimmy, there aresome data gathering that's out
there that will tell you whatthe consumer is putting in the
shopping cart with your product,so that gives you some
indications of what they'rebuying additionally but the
repeat purchase is a little bitharder to um to capture but
let's say, if total wine, let'ssay there was a member loyalty
(22:19):
club or something which TotalWine was doing for sure, like
you would know, sam's right, ifyou walk into Sam's Club and you
bought, you would absolutelyknow what you're buying.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It depends on what retailers capturing and a brand.
I'm sure, I'm 100% sure, thatthe big brands know exactly till
the last moment, till the hour,everything.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right, that's a really good point.
So a lot of the um grocerystores and the chain stores you
know you get that little thingright when you go to the grocery
store and you get that littletag you put on your keychain
that is capturing everything youdo.
When I go into my local grocerystore we don't sell uh, the
only alcohol we sell in new yorkis beer in the grocery store,
but it will tell me everythingthat I've bought and how much I
(23:01):
bought of it.
So, yes, there are places whereyou can capture that.
So if you've gotten into achain, you've got that data and
you know exactly how many timesMary bought that yellowtail.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So I guess, whatever size you are, whether you're a
big brand and you've got all theaccess to the hard data, or if
you're a newer brand, you needto pretend like you've got it
and, I guess, use your contacts,like you said, sid, and
actually talk to the people whoare on the sales floors, if you
will.
With eyes on consumers, that'sa really good point.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Just on that, if you actually knew, if you knocked
the doors, if you did thatFriday tasting and Saturday
tasting yourself, you yourselfwould know that hey, this is my
customer, so that's why you gotto do it yourself.
You know, the more you do you,you will know that in this store
I have regular customers youalso can engage on social media.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right said, yeah, that would be another way that
you're finding out who'spurchasing your product.
Right, you're doing things onsocial media and you're engaging
with folks and you're actuallyhaving a conversation about what
they did with Jack Daniels thisweek.
Right, last week they werestraight.
This week they put it in thiscocktail that you would
recommend it and they come backto you and say that was great.
(24:10):
I got to run out and getanother bottle.
Everybody liked it so much,whatever.
But yeah, you are getting someof that feed from you.
A hundred 100%.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
At least with social media, you actually know who's
drinking your stuff I canimagine for a brand, like if
they ever get tagged in a photowhere it's someone sort of like
toasting to the sunset withtheir drink in the foreground,
I'm sure that's a home run for abrand, absolutely.
For brands that are out therelistening.
I wanted to ask you to sort ofyou know, bring this back around
(24:41):
to what you do, sid, for brandsthat are listening out there,
you know, whatever size they areand however far along they are
in their business journey, Iguess how early should they
consider attending one of yourevents and you did talk about
how early on?
Your feeling is that trade andb2b should be the lion's share
(25:02):
of a brand's market spend, butcan we talk about the nuts and
bolts of that?
How does a brand go like?
Okay, I'm, I'm motivated.
This podcast has me all in.
What's the next step?
Do they just go to the website?
Do they sort of make a plan totravel to one of your events?
Or, if it's virtual, do they?
What's the next step for brandsout there listening who are all
about this?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I mean if you, if it's just particularly, let's
say, if they want to startworking with us, you know, and
get to know us a little bit moreand how we handhold brand
partnerships.
Uh, competition is a good wayto start because it's just a low
sort of hundred dollar entry,you know, you, you get the taste
of how Beverage Trade Networkservices you and helps you, you
know.
And then a trade show issomething which is on a need
(25:45):
basis.
So let's say, if you're reallylooking for an importer in US,
they would really be the idealtrade show to exhibit, you know,
if you really want that.
But if you're looking for moreof a brand activations or just a
big boys and girls party sortof thing, then obviously there's
WSWA or Bar Convent sort ofshows where more activational
plays can happen.
(26:05):
But in our case if you'relooking to connect with a new
buyer, then it's a good show,and especially if you're a small
and medium-sized brand.
So that's where we fit in.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And do you think the competitions are equally
important as the show?
If you're planning yourbudgeting for 2025, should the
show, should the seasons comefirst or the shows come first?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
So by, I think, say by numbers.
Let's say we deal with almost10,000 brands a year in
competitions, right In tradeshows, almost 1 1500 in as a
different exhibits.
Now, why I'm putting thatnumber is for everyone it's
different.
The reality is how you use it.
So, for example, if someone isdoing an exhibit, there are so
(26:50):
many people I've seen.
They just come, they sit, theystand, they're idle, they just
you know.
Then nothing happens.
And then there are so manypeople I've seen.
It's not really about the tradeshow, it is the pre-show and the
post-show, the buzz you create,make it big like, make it sound
big.
Same thing goes on thecompetition.
When I was there, I wassubmitting in, let's say, wine
(27:25):
Spectator or Wine Enthusiast,and even if I got 88 points, I
was telling my buyers as if I'vejust won wine of the year.
I was making so much noise.
So it's like you, it's what youdo with your stuff is the
variable.
Same goes with the trade shows,you know.
So I think the ROI is alwaysthere and I would absolutely say
that these are so easy becauseyou are using this to make the
noise so.
So, for example, I would advisethis because this is a good
practical tip for especially ourcustomers who are exhibiting.
Let's say you know when you goto a trade show you really
already know anyway, eightmonths before or six months
(27:46):
before, what you're doing, right?
So let's say, when I'm doingwine, paris and pro wine this
year as an exhibit, so the worldwill know BTN is going there
soon, like from first December.
A lot of people will know weare exhibiting, okay, in every
way which I can Now the ProVinepotential.
All the exhibitors may alsoknow that we are coming Now.
(28:08):
The VVIPs of the world willalso know SID is coming.
Do you want to catch up for abeer?
So there is a whole strategywhich I will have.
Like you were there, right, Iinvited to the cocktail party
last time, remember.
So we hosted the cocktail party.
So we always have that littlesomething going on.
And for brands who may not havethe big budget, have a little
one hour five hundred dollar tapat this tap room beer.
(28:30):
But tell that, hey, beers on us.
We are doing a little gatheringseven to eight after the show.
So it's, it's how you do yourbuild-ups, you know, and then
you already that buyer knowsthat you're, you're doing this
and that, and then he comes atthe show, and at the show as
well, you send them.
Hey, johnny, you know what,let's catch up later on.
Come to my beer party.
So it's how you use itliterally.
You know, this is what I wouldadvise uh brands, you know.
(28:53):
And then the post show, uhshould happen like amazing
follow-up.
Hey, it was lovely catching upwith you, and so on.
Right, which we do it, but notwith so much passion because we
get tired.
I mean, that's a fact.
We travel and we get tiredright after the shows, and then
we lose half of the momentum Onthe competitions, marianne, same
thing, you know, it's how muchnoise you make, how much trade
(29:13):
updates you do.
Orders are not going to come toyou.
So it's so funny when peopleenter in the competition and
they win, let's say, 90 points,and they're expecting a US
importer to call them and get acontainer.
That just blows my mind, right.
I mean, with all due respect,but that's not what it is.
There are 9,000 brands they canchoose from.
I'm just giving an example thatit is really on how you use it
(29:38):
and the smart people really knowhow to use it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
To wrap things up, our favorite question that we
like to ask every guest what isyour favorite drink?
This can be what you're havingright now.
It doesn't have to be a desertisland forever drink, but what's
on your palate right now?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think I would still go with beer.
You know, I just like a normalbeer.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
What's normal to Sid Patel.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
A wheat beer, like you know, Belgium style sort of
wheat beers.
I prefer that.
I drink that and then sometimesI'm in the mood to explore and
when I'm traveling, you know, Itravel a lot, so I like to go
and see some speakeasy andcocktail bars.
So I go for cocktail bars andwhiskey sour is my go-to drink
there.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
A whiskey sour and a wheat beer, a Hefeweizen or
something like that.
Very nice.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
London beer and pub and whiskey sour in nice
speakeasy cocktail bars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Love it Very good.
Well, I want to say huge thanksto you, sid Patel, for joining
us.
Listeners can find out more atBeveragetradeNetworkcom.
I know it's very late for youwhere you are, so thank you so
much for staying up late with us.
Go get some sleep.
We appreciate you and we hopeto have you back at some point.
We'll have links to everythinggoing on with Beveragetrade
Network and Sid Patel in theshow notes, but for now, adios.
(30:56):
Thank you so much, sid.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Thank you, Thanks Jimmy, Thanks Marianne.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And thank you listeners for joining us on the
MHW Mark podcast and thanksagain to Marianne Pisani for
joining me in hosting.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Thanks for having me, Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
This podcast is produced by me, jimmy Moreland,
with booking and planningsupport by Cassidy Poe.
It's presented by MHW.
Find out more at mhwltdcom orconnect with MHW on LinkedIn.
Lend us a hand by subscribing,rating and reviewing this
podcast wherever you listen.
We'll be back in your feed intwo weeks.
We'll see you then.
Cheers.
Welcome to the MHW Mark podcast, where we take deep
dives into various aspects ofthe alcohol industry.
My name is Jimmy Moreland.
Mhw is a US and EU beveragealcohol importer, distributor
and service provider.
Today I am thrilled to welcomeback to the show, as a guest
host, mhw's own Marianne Pisani.
Welcome back, marianne.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you, Jimmy.
I'm glad to be here.
I think I like being on thisside better than being a guest.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now I looked back in the archive of the MHW Mark
podcast and it was episode fivethat we had you on.
And isn't it wild that we'vebeen at this thing for over a
year and we finally got you back.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I can't believe it's been over a year and it
seems like I was on yesterday,so that is truly a sign of age.
The time is going much fasterthan it used to.
But yeah, it does feel likeprobably.
It was my nerves just probablysettled, since I felt like, you
know, I was on.
I'm not much for being on andbeing interviewed.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, it's funny.
I like to joke about CassidyPoe roaming the halls of MHW
with a blow dart gun trying tobag my next co-host.
So I appreciate you comingalong willingly.
Now I want to talk about.
We've got a great conversationtoday with a great guest who has
a lot of really cool and veryapplicable useful advice for
(01:28):
brands in particular.
But listeners will have seenthe title on their phones or
wherever they're listening B2Btrade marketing.
Can you tell me what does thatmean?
What is B2B trade marketing?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yeah, so before you can get the consumer excited
about your product, you've gotto get the buy-in from
distributors and retailers tocarry your product.
This is a three-tier system.
It seems like you can go directto them with e-commerce sites,
but that is a small portion ofthe alcohol beverage industry.
(02:02):
It's a heavy product to shipand it's breakable, so it's not
the easiest thing to ship andthere's a lot of laws that
prevent it.
So in the traditionalthree-tier system, if you want
to sit on the shelf or behindthe back bar or in a restaurant,
you've got to get the buy-infrom the distributors and the
(02:22):
retailers to get it there.
So that's your first people youhave to to get it there.
So that's your first people youhave to attract.
Is other business, so that'sthe B2B Business to business.
You've got to get theirattention and then you can work
on getting the consumer'sattention.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I think that's a perfect way to set the stage, so
let's go ahead and get into ourinterview today with our guest.
Our guest today has been in thewine and spirits industry for
over 18 years.
He is the founder of BeverageTrade Network, a company that
owns some of the world's leadingevents and trade shows.
Welcome, sid Patel.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Thank you so much, Jimmy, for having me in your
podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
So, sid, thank you first of all for being here, and
we've known each other a longtime and MHW has managed your
compliance for many of yourshows.
How did you get your start inbeverage alcohol?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So I think in around 2006, that's 18 years ago, I
launched my own wine brandcalled Friday Monkey, out of
Australia.
So that was a private label.
A lot of my family owned liquorstores around New Jersey,
delaware, maryland area.
So it was a little bit of apart-time sort of thought that,
(03:29):
you know, let me get a containerand get started with this
private label.
And at that time, yellowtail,little Penguin, jacob's Creek
all Australian wines were likeselling.
You know, $7.99 was thecategory.
I thought let's just buildsomething.
So that's how I got started,you know, with literally the
family support and, as you know,a lot of Indians own liquor
stores in that area.
So they all supported me atthat time and that part-time
(03:53):
thing became a big business.
I mean, I grew that business youknow, 200,000 cases over like
five, six years and I did, youknow, use a company which you
may recall, at that time wascalled American Drinks USA, like
MHW and Park Street.
So I was completely using thismodel, which I'm a big fan of.
I used the third-partylogistical infrastructure model
(04:15):
and that's exactly how I builtmy brand.
Fast forward, perfect storm hitme and that business went to
zero.
Then I started Beverage TradeNetwork, which is a platform
that grew because of thataudience.
I started trade shows and thenwe started competitions and we
have the ecosystem now iscompetitions, media assets and
(04:38):
trade shows.
So we have this global platformright now.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
That seems trade shows I can imagine are a huge
lift, is it just?
Is it all consuming puttingtogether something like that?
I can imagine it's a lot ofwork putting together a trade
show.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
I think, yeah, I mean to be honest, we do very I mean
not super large format shows,jimmy, you know it's just about
100 to 120 exhibitors.
So it's more B2B, high-end B2B,you know, like big buyers, big
sellers, sort of trade shows.
So, logistically, I think nowthat I'm into almost, you know,
12th year of the trade shows,the nerves are calm.
(05:17):
But yes, you're right, likewhen we were just initially
getting started, the pressurewas high and I think the thing
that still worries me is justthe visitors.
In that first hours walking in,rest, all is fine, you know,
like how many visitors are goingto come to the show is just the
pressure bit.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So for brands who are going to come to these trade
shows.
Why do brands want to thinkabout B2B and trade marketing
and why do they need to come toyour shows?
And I guess, why is that partof it more important, or as
important, or a good piece ofthe puzzle, if you will, in
their overall broader marketingstrategy?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Sure.
So I think a lot of brands youknow spend their ad dollars or
marketing dollars in creatingconsumer sort of campaigns first
, whereas you know I am a bigbeliever that for the first
three years all your moneyshould go in trade marketing.
Now it doesn't have to be thetrade show, but what I mean by
that is every single dollar hasto be used to get in front of
(06:14):
trade.
Now, depending on what'sworking, what your budgets are,
you know, if you just have asmall budget for a B2B magazine
ad which the New Jersey liquorstore buyers read and your
target is New Jersey, that'swhere you go.
For example, if you're aimingfor a Midwest area let's say we
do a show in Chicago, you cometo our show.
If you're aiming for finding aninternational importer, if
(06:38):
you're an overseas winerylooking for an importer, then
you figure out that shows.
But my point here is like youshould spend all your money in
trade that way.
The second element is you knowyou should spend money in any
trade activity that gets youplacement.
And the third money you shouldspend in trade again, which
drives depletion Go in theretail and you know you really
(06:59):
want their buying right.
So you have to build that trust.
You can offer them Fridaytastings, saturday tastings,
depending on where it's legal,whatnot?
Guys right, obviously.
So you look at the market, youwork with the distributor and
then that way you can offer them.
But the idea is you come backto that store and offer them
some sort of programming todrive depletions or some sort of
incentive, whatever is legaland allowed in that state.
(07:19):
So break it down in newintroductions, placements and
depletions, but all in trade.
That's what I would advise.
Till you have a massdistribution, no point thinking
about big consumer magazines oradvertisements.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And say how does the Beverage Trade Network connect
with brands and criticalindustry partners like MHW?
How do you do?
What kind of outreach do you doin marketing?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
As I said, like before, we have the ecosystem,
so we have again media assets,so we write good stories about
the brands that get in front ofthe trade.
That is one, you know,journalism approach.
And then we obviously socialmedia, those articles and
whatnot.
A goal for us as a company isalways to connect buyers with
sellers.
So most of my time also goes toinfluence these buyers and to
(08:07):
build that community of buyersby giving them what they want to
consume, right.
So that is one way of usingcontent.
The second way is the tradeshows, where we invite the key
buyers, key stakeholders of ourindustry, as speakers or in the
cocktail parties, our VIP guestsor just as a buyer.
You know if they're looking fora new product, so they would.
(08:28):
That is one way we get them,and then you know they would
meet the brands there.
So that is a face-to-faceconnection that we aim for.
And then the third would be ourcompetitions, which is, you
know, let's say, the topcategory winners.
One Shiraz of the year is therein our competition, but now you
know, did I actually have thatwine buyer or a restaurant buyer
or a sommelier add that intheir wine list?
(08:50):
So you know, my goal is to makesure that this trade buyers
actually get influenced withwhat we're doing and actually
buys that and stocks that Shirazof the Year, right.
So we do a few things.
To go a little precise here,let's say we have annually four
buyers meet Zoom calls, where 50of our key judges and trade
(09:11):
buyers attend the top categorywinners call.
It's like a Shark Tank stylefive-minute pitch they all do to
the actual buyers on Zoom.
So that's one way we give themthat opportunity.
Obviously, apart from all thestraight show things, we do that
as well, right?
So that's just one example, butthe more we go every year, we
try to go deeper and deeper on.
How are we actually connectingthe buyers and sellers even more
(09:33):
, even more, even more.
That's really fun.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Sid, you said you're running roughly like a dozen or
so events per year at this point.
Can you talk to us about someof those events?
I know that you said some ofthe things that happen at those,
but can you just give us alittle bit more background?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Sure.
So our main markets are US, UK,China, and then we do a small
event in Paris as well.
So in that we have aninternational bulk wine and
spirit show that we do in SanFrancisco and London.
So that is one of the importanttrade shows that we cater to
for private label bulk wine andbulk spirits industry and that's
(10:10):
where the buyers that arelooking for, you know, creating
private labels or control labelsor even bulk wine, if a winery
wants to buy or bulk spirits,you know the distillery wants to
buy.
They would be sort of thepeople that would come to that
show.
Then there is a brand lookingfor importers, distributors and
retailers, trade shows, which is, you know, UK trade tasting,
(10:31):
USA trade tasting.
We're launching China tradetasting in Hong Kong.
So that is a typical brandlooking for importers and
distributors, right.
And then the competitions wise,our biggest is the London
competitions, where Londonspirits competition is, I think,
now the world's third biggestafter San Francisco and IWSC.
So we do 4,500 entries inLondon competitions and
(10:52):
sommelier's choice awards is abig one in US, in Chicago, where
brands looking to get in frontof sommeliers would submit their
wines.
And then the USA wine ratingsis where the national retail
wine buyers or the regional winebuyers, like supermarket buyers
, would be coming in right.
So I can keep going, but I'llstop there because I don't want
to talk much about our events,but yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
We'll have links for people to check out later.
They can look in the show notesand they can check out links
and they can do their ownresearch and look all this stuff
up themselves.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, congrats on the London show being so big.
I didn't realize I'm familiarwith your US shows.
I wasn't familiar with that one, so congrats.
That's quite an accomplishment,sid, to be the third largest.
Wow, very impressed.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Yeah, thank you to be the third largest.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Wow, very impressive, yeah, thank you.
So, sid, research shows thatdouble blind tasting competition
awards are critical for wineand spirits brands to credential
their taste and set them aparton the shelf.
In today's world, shelf canmean the e-commerce graphics
that accompany a product online.
Tell us about your competitionsin terms of what have you seen
(12:02):
brands do to operationalize theawards?
Speaker 3 (12:05):
So let's break it down in the categories.
So, for example, if it's thevirtual retail, the traditional
retail model, you know, the bestway I would advise, and how
many smart brands would be doing, is updating their point of
sale.
So the shelf talkers would havethe logo, you know, the case
cards would have the logo, let'ssay the gold medal, and the
score.
Then comes the package itself,Like if it's a new vintage, and
(12:28):
if they have a chance to putthat in the artwork of the label
itself, they would add thatthere as well, and that would be
sort of the traditional retailsort of upgrade that they can do
if they've got a medal.
The e-commerce side is veryinteresting to me.
So, for example, in that aswell, you know, I've noticed
smart players and big brandsreally understanding this
(12:50):
psychology of SEO and of whatthe psychology of the online
buyer is.
So what again, what they're,what people are doing, is
they're sending an updateddescription to, let's say, big
chains like Total Wine.
It's worth an effort to askTotal Wine because it's going to
be a massive e-commerce update,right, and it does pop out
early.
(13:10):
So if someone's just searchingcompetition winners in Total
Wine, search like I'm lookingfor the best Shiraz, but if it's
written in the description bestShiraz at London wine
competition, for example, itwill pop up high.
So it's a very tactical thingthat a smart you know you have
to understand.
It's still an SEO under SEO.
So if you know how to play thatgame, it really helps.
(13:32):
And in fact it helps Total Winebecause a clear case study they
can put in front of them thathey, my brands will sell on your
.
I can really become the topselling Shiraz from that,
because I've just won this and Iknow if you updated and showed
the medal.
The problem is with the online.
There is no sommelier or humantalking to the consumer.
(13:52):
So anything that you can dovisually and using your amazing
words and storytelling in thecaptions, that will help.
So I think that's what peopleare doing in e-commerce.
And the last bit is sommeliersand the restaurants.
So that's where I don't thinkso much of sommeliers don't want
to sort of promote so much ofthese competitions and whatnot,
because it's still they wanttheir own way of storytelling.
(14:14):
Like you know, okay, this is afarmer, this is a story.
This is da-da-da, you know.
Like you know, okay, this is afarmer, this is a story, this is
da-da-da, you know.
So I have not seen much and Idon't think that you know you
should ask a sommelier to sortof add it in the wine menus and
whatnot.
So I've not seen that much.
But it's okay, you know, aslong as it's a house pour or
something like a merchandise isthere or a bar mit is there,
that's where you can play with,to show, and but again, the
(14:38):
sommelier is not using theirwords to sort of sell their
service, Right?
So it's just the merchandise ofthe restaurant which they're
using in that case.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I like that, the idea of sort of like, how do you
have the digital version of?
We've all seen, like thecollars that they put on bottles
, or you know the tags thatthey'll they'll have on the
shelf there at the stores.
But having that digital versionis definitely a challenge.
That's really interesting.
Sid, you know, in your nearlytwo decades in the industry, can
you share with us some of thethings that you've seen in your
(15:10):
day?
Or you know what you've seenchange over these past two
decades in your particular spacein the market?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
I think it's just becoming tougher and tougher.
One of the things that surely Imean it was all this stuff, it
was all this the buyer's market.
And now it's even more of thebuyer's market, because the gap
of supply and demand is justgrowing.
And one of the classic problemswhich I think this day is less
importers and distributors andmore consolidation, and we've
(15:38):
just not returned back.
It's just going every year it'sgoing less and less and less,
so which is a bottleneck, whichmeans, you know, there is the
whole world of Southern andGlazers and R&DC, and then there
is this mom and popdistributors, you know, and
there are Budweiser's in theworld and there are this craft
beers.
So there is a big problem andwhich is just growing,
unfortunately.
(15:58):
And then, as you know, like youknow, the reality of which I
advise and which brand ownersand entrepreneurs should really
understand, it's the game hascompletely changed to
self-distribution.
There is nothing calleddistributor now, it is all
self-distribution.
Even if you use MSW or not,even if you have a distributor,
it is still a self-distributiongame.
So that's exactly how I did mybusiness and that's how every
(16:22):
single brand that has movedbeyond 100,000 cases they
understood from day one.
It is all about self-knocking,self-distribution, so that has
not changed.
It's just that people who havedone it have succeeded.
You know no one else is goingto talk about your product, no
one else is going to sell yourproduct, and that's the reality.
So you know, I think that'swhat I've seen more and more.
So there were a fewdistributors, but even that now
(16:48):
is becoming a problem andobviously lately the shifts in
the headwinds in wine category,the people drinking less, no and
low coming up, you know.
So we're getting a little bitof headwinds here and there, but
I think you've got to.
You know, wait and navigate.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
To that end.
Do you see the beverage alcoholsector embracing the no and low
?
Do you think that's the way forthis?
Not to hurt beverage alcohol isfor us to embrace it and
realize that it's part of theshow, right?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah.
So you know, like I personallyapply this philosophy where you
know you don't need to think andapply your brain so much when
the big guys are doing it.
So it's like the old sayinggoes follow the money.
So when, if Gallo forget aboutthe edge of Gallo is doing RTD
and doing a no and low, can youknow that means something's
going on right.
Second thing is a dollar todayis more than $2 tomorrow.
So I believe in that as well,which means you got to survive
(17:40):
today, which means you know,even if I have to.
You know, a lot of times it'seasy to say, but a lot of times
this winery or distillery hasthat legacy and they can
obviously just grow merlot fromthat region.
They can't just come up, youknow, with another thing.
Just it's not like privatelabel, right.
So so what I would advise is alittle bit of a navigation, or a
small batch, or even anoffering, a pallet.
(18:00):
What you don't want to do islose the shelf placement, you
know, as we chatted a few daysago.
So do not lose shelf placement,because we know, being from the
industry, we know that thatspot is the golden spot the
moment you're gone, because thecategory is going low, you know
gone.
So if I was a salesperson, Iwould say hey, I understand,
(18:20):
maybe, australian Shiraz, you'redecreasing the thing, but
you're increasing the low and no.
So let me go there now with myno and low, but do not kick me
out entirely, so I would notlose the account.
That's where I'm going with,you know.
So, if you have to innovate,innovate but do not lose your
distributor.
Do not lose your account.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And indicators.
Do you see, uh, that a brandhas longevity versus that it's
just a trend and popularity.
Maybe this is a good segue fromtalking about no and low,
because I know there's a lot ofbelief that those are trends,
like I've seen.
You know, celebrity brands arehuge, right, but so many of the
celebrity brands end up to be aflash in the pan, and what I've
(19:00):
seen is if the celebrity istruly, truly engaged and they're
truly owning it on their socialmedia and wherever they go, you
know, kind of George Clooneybeing on the side of the
Southern trucks, right sittingthere, you know, having his
Casamigas helped a lot, right so.
But then there's othercelebrities who think, just by
(19:21):
putting their name on it, that'sgoing to be enough, and we know
that isn't right.
So what have you seen are signsof longevity?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
So I think you're going to I think maybe it's the
simplest answer in one sentencethat longevity should be
measured by the repeat purchaseof the end consumer.
If the same person is drinkingmy product again and again not
the retail buyer, not thesommelier, not the Walmart If
that person, the last buyer, istaking my product at home and
(19:51):
coming back next Monday andtaking it again and coming back
next Thursday and taking itagain, that's called longevity
in the brand.
And coming back next Thursdayand taking it again, that's
called longevity in the brand.
You know that is the only thingthat is there.
And the duration, obviously youknow.
So that person like Jack Danielis the ultimate example of you
know the loyalty right, so like,if you have, the longer that
(20:12):
person stays with your brand,that's it.
Then you're building in roots.
And then the second trade wayof longevity how I measured when
I was selling, is how manymenus am I being printed inside,
how many shelf places I'm goingin Not the floor stack how many
menu like on the shelves I'mgoing in, how many programmings
(20:33):
I'm going inside Like ablueprint, how many tattoos you
know restaurants are like, youknow what I mean Like menus
inside.
So that's called like okay,finally they decided to put me
in, so that means I'm long-termfor that restaurant.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
This may be a stupid question, but it's born of
ignorance.
When you talk about thatlongevity, that sort of
individual consumer coming backagain and again to your brand,
does that individual level data,like sales data, exist?
Is that something that you haveto infer or is the hard data
available and it's somethingthat brands can access?
Speaker 3 (21:07):
so a good question.
It's just one, one sentenceaway.
If you go to any retailer, theretailer, that person will know
that, hey, mary walked in,mary's just going to buy that
yellow tell shiraz, becausethat's what mary just buys and
comes and immediately goes inthere, you know.
So the buyer knows what'shappening.
If you just ask the buyer that,hey, do I have some loyal
customers?
And believe it or not, theyknow every customer that who's
(21:30):
buying this, who's buying that,who's the regular?
You know, and that's how theyincrease that order.
The moment they see there is asubtraction and they've built
the regulars, that's when theyincrease your order size.
You know.
So it's really the pulse ofthat retailer.
But yeah, there is no way youcan measure that data.
I mean, to be honest, you knowthe data can be measured at the
depletion in the software of theretailer, but not like John
(21:52):
bought it or Mary bought it, youknow Right, and so on, unless
they're having a CRM.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
To be honest, know right and so on, unless they're,
they're having a crm.
To be honest, jimmy, there aresome data gathering that's out
there that will tell you whatthe consumer is putting in the
shopping cart with your product,so that gives you some
indications of what they'rebuying additionally but the
repeat purchase is a little bitharder to um to capture but
let's say, if total wine, let'ssay there was a member loyalty
(22:19):
club or something which TotalWine was doing for sure, like
you would know, sam's right, ifyou walk into Sam's Club and you
bought, you would absolutelyknow what you're buying.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
It depends on what retailers capturing and a brand.
I'm sure, I'm 100% sure, thatthe big brands know exactly till
the last moment, till the hour,everything.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Right, that's a really good point.
So a lot of the um grocerystores and the chain stores you
know you get that little thingright when you go to the grocery
store and you get that littletag you put on your keychain
that is capturing everything youdo.
When I go into my local grocerystore we don't sell uh, the
only alcohol we sell in new yorkis beer in the grocery store,
but it will tell me everythingthat I've bought and how much I
(23:01):
bought of it.
So, yes, there are places whereyou can capture that.
So if you've gotten into achain, you've got that data and
you know exactly how many timesMary bought that yellowtail.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
So I guess, whatever size you are, whether you're a
big brand and you've got all theaccess to the hard data, or if
you're a newer brand, you needto pretend like you've got it
and, I guess, use your contacts,like you said, sid, and
actually talk to the people whoare on the sales floors, if you
will.
With eyes on consumers, that'sa really good point.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Just on that, if you actually knew, if you knocked
the doors, if you did thatFriday tasting and Saturday
tasting yourself, you yourselfwould know that hey, this is my
customer, so that's why you gotto do it yourself.
You know, the more you do you,you will know that in this store
I have regular customers youalso can engage on social media.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Right said, yeah, that would be another way that
you're finding out who'spurchasing your product.
Right, you're doing things onsocial media and you're engaging
with folks and you're actuallyhaving a conversation about what
they did with Jack Daniels thisweek.
Right, last week they werestraight.
This week they put it in thiscocktail that you would
recommend it and they come backto you and say that was great.
(24:10):
I got to run out and getanother bottle.
Everybody liked it so much,whatever.
But yeah, you are getting someof that feed from you.
A hundred 100%.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
At least with social media, you actually know who's
drinking your stuff I canimagine for a brand, like if
they ever get tagged in a photowhere it's someone sort of like
toasting to the sunset withtheir drink in the foreground,
I'm sure that's a home run for abrand, absolutely.
For brands that are out therelistening.
I wanted to ask you to sort ofyou know, bring this back around
(24:41):
to what you do, sid, for brandsthat are listening out there,
you know, whatever size they areand however far along they are
in their business journey, Iguess how early should they
consider attending one of yourevents and you did talk about
how early on?
Your feeling is that trade andb2b should be the lion's share
(25:02):
of a brand's market spend, butcan we talk about the nuts and
bolts of that?
How does a brand go like?
Okay, I'm, I'm motivated.
This podcast has me all in.
What's the next step?
Do they just go to the website?
Do they sort of make a plan totravel to one of your events?
Or, if it's virtual, do they?
What's the next step for brandsout there listening who are all
about this?
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I mean if you, if it's just particularly, let's
say, if they want to startworking with us, you know, and
get to know us a little bit moreand how we handhold brand
partnerships.
Uh, competition is a good wayto start because it's just a low
sort of hundred dollar entry,you know, you, you get the taste
of how Beverage Trade Networkservices you and helps you, you
know.
And then a trade show issomething which is on a need
(25:45):
basis.
So let's say, if you're reallylooking for an importer in US,
they would really be the idealtrade show to exhibit, you know,
if you really want that.
But if you're looking for moreof a brand activations or just a
big boys and girls party sortof thing, then obviously there's
WSWA or Bar Convent sort ofshows where more activational
plays can happen.
(26:05):
But in our case if you'relooking to connect with a new
buyer, then it's a good show,and especially if you're a small
and medium-sized brand.
So that's where we fit in.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And do you think the competitions are equally
important as the show?
If you're planning yourbudgeting for 2025, should the
show, should the seasons comefirst or the shows come first?
Speaker 3 (26:28):
So by, I think, say by numbers.
Let's say we deal with almost10,000 brands a year in
competitions, right In tradeshows, almost 1 1500 in as a
different exhibits.
Now, why I'm putting thatnumber is for everyone it's
different.
The reality is how you use it.
So, for example, if someone isdoing an exhibit, there are so
(26:50):
many people I've seen.
They just come, they sit, theystand, they're idle, they just
you know.
Then nothing happens.
And then there are so manypeople I've seen.
It's not really about the tradeshow, it is the pre-show and the
post-show, the buzz you create,make it big like, make it sound
big.
Same thing goes on thecompetition.
When I was there, I wassubmitting in, let's say, wine
(27:25):
Spectator or Wine Enthusiast,and even if I got 88 points, I
was telling my buyers as if I'vejust won wine of the year.
I was making so much noise.
So it's like you, it's what youdo with your stuff is the
variable.
Same goes with the trade shows,you know.
So I think the ROI is alwaysthere and I would absolutely say
that these are so easy becauseyou are using this to make the
noise so.
So, for example, I would advisethis because this is a good
practical tip for especially ourcustomers who are exhibiting.
Let's say you know when you goto a trade show you really
already know anyway, eightmonths before or six months
(27:46):
before, what you're doing, right?
So let's say, when I'm doingwine, paris and pro wine this
year as an exhibit, so the worldwill know BTN is going there
soon, like from first December.
A lot of people will know weare exhibiting, okay, in every
way which I can Now the ProVinepotential.
All the exhibitors may alsoknow that we are coming Now.
(28:08):
The VVIPs of the world willalso know SID is coming.
Do you want to catch up for abeer?
So there is a whole strategywhich I will have.
Like you were there, right, Iinvited to the cocktail party
last time, remember.
So we hosted the cocktail party.
So we always have that littlesomething going on.
And for brands who may not havethe big budget, have a little
one hour five hundred dollar tapat this tap room beer.
(28:30):
But tell that, hey, beers on us.
We are doing a little gatheringseven to eight after the show.
So it's, it's how you do yourbuild-ups, you know, and then
you already that buyer knowsthat you're, you're doing this
and that, and then he comes atthe show, and at the show as
well, you send them.
Hey, johnny, you know what,let's catch up later on.
Come to my beer party.
So it's how you use itliterally.
You know, this is what I wouldadvise uh brands, you know.
(28:53):
And then the post show, uhshould happen like amazing
follow-up.
Hey, it was lovely catching upwith you, and so on.
Right, which we do it, but notwith so much passion because we
get tired.
I mean, that's a fact.
We travel and we get tiredright after the shows, and then
we lose half of the momentum Onthe competitions, marianne, same
thing, you know, it's how muchnoise you make, how much trade
(29:13):
updates you do.
Orders are not going to come toyou.
So it's so funny when peopleenter in the competition and
they win, let's say, 90 points,and they're expecting a US
importer to call them and get acontainer.
That just blows my mind, right.
I mean, with all due respect,but that's not what it is.
There are 9,000 brands they canchoose from.
I'm just giving an example thatit is really on how you use it
(29:38):
and the smart people really knowhow to use it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
To wrap things up, our favorite question that we
like to ask every guest what isyour favorite drink?
This can be what you're havingright now.
It doesn't have to be a desertisland forever drink, but what's
on your palate right now?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I think I would still go with beer.
You know, I just like a normalbeer.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
What's normal to Sid Patel.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
A wheat beer, like you know, Belgium style sort of
wheat beers.
I prefer that.
I drink that and then sometimesI'm in the mood to explore and
when I'm traveling, you know, Itravel a lot, so I like to go
and see some speakeasy andcocktail bars.
So I go for cocktail bars andwhiskey sour is my go-to drink
there.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
A whiskey sour and a wheat beer, a Hefeweizen or
something like that.
Very nice.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
London beer and pub and whiskey sour in nice
speakeasy cocktail bars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Love it Very good.
Well, I want to say huge thanksto you, sid Patel, for joining
us.
Listeners can find out more atBeveragetradeNetworkcom.
I know it's very late for youwhere you are, so thank you so
much for staying up late with us.
Go get some sleep.
We appreciate you and we hopeto have you back at some point.
We'll have links to everythinggoing on with Beveragetrade
Network and Sid Patel in theshow notes, but for now, adios.
(30:56):
Thank you so much, sid.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Thank you, Thanks Jimmy, Thanks Marianne.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And thank you listeners for joining us on the
MHW Mark podcast and thanksagain to Marianne Pisani for
joining me in hosting.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Thanks for having me, Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
This podcast is produced by me, jimmy Moreland,
with booking and planningsupport by Cassidy Poe.
It's presented by MHW.
Find out more at mhwltdcom orconnect with MHW on LinkedIn.
Lend us a hand by subscribing,rating and reviewing this
podcast wherever you listen.
We'll be back in your feed intwo weeks.
We'll see you then.
Cheers.
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