October 7, 2025 • 26 mins
On this episode, we're joined by the co-founder of 11C & Company Michelle Ivey. Host Jimmy Moreland and MHW's head of BrandArc Ian Perez chat about the challenges brands face from ideation to sales and marketing. Michelle's experience shines through with valuable and entertaining industry stories, including the "bad idea factory."
Find out more about 11C and Co. | Website
Come say hi to the MHW team at Bar Convent Berlin at Booth #PEG021
More info about MHW at https://www.mhwltd.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Welcome to the MHW Mark Podcast, where we take deep
dives into various aspects ofthe alcohol industry.
My name is Jimmy Moreland.
MHW is a US and EU beveragealcohol importer, distributor,
and service provider.
Welcoming back to the show,returning champion, the OG
co-host, Ian Perez.
Welcome back, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Jimmy, I know it's been so long.
How have you been?
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
I've been really well.
I went back and looked in thefeed, and the last time we had
you on the podcast was July of2024.
It's been over a year.
My how the time flies.
Can you believe we've been doingthis podcast for over two years
now?
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
I cannot believe.
I'm so happy that we are.
And I'm actually more shockedthat we haven't spoken since
July of last year, so we need torectify that going forward.
Hopefully, we can find more waysto get myself on because I
always enjoy chatting with youand all of our wonderful guests.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Well, you know, I always see uh your Instagram
stories of you playing guitar,so I feel like we still have the
connection there.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02):
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
You and my mom.
For the listeners, you're reallymissing out on some quality
electric guitar solos.
No, it's just you and my mom.
The only two viewers I have,which I'm thankful for.
I'm gonna cut one of those intothis podcast so that people can
hear.
Um looking at the calendar here,as listeners get this episode,
(01:24):
we will be right in the middleof Bar Convent Berlin.
Now, will you be there?
What's going on?
I unfortunately will not bethere.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
Um, it is probably the premier show to go to,
especially from the barperspective, plus the name Bar
Comment Um Berlin.
It's a really great spot to seea lot of new interesting spirit
brands, especially.
Um, so especially if you're intococktails, there's gonna be cool
all types of whiskeys, somegins, vodkas, and tequila and
(01:54):
mezcal.
So, in terms of the shows to goto, it's one of the best ones to
go to, especially from um anattendee level, because there's
again wonderful cocktails, greatpeople.
It's a show that people put alot of money into.
So you'll see the displays arelike phenomenal um in terms of
all like the LEDs and lightingand all the accouchments that
those banners have.
So um, it's a really big show.
(02:14):
So you definitely have to haveyour comfy shoes on to try and
see as much of it as you can.
But for brands looking to eitherum European-based brands or
further and looking to getexport into the United States is
a great way to be visible for uhUS importers like MHW visiting
those shows, but also it's agreat opportunity for North
American, South American brandsto kind of put a flagpole in
(02:35):
Europe and announce themselvesto the world for the big EU
distributors and distributorsfrom like Asia and Southeast
Asia and Africa as well.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
So for people hearing this podcast, they
either know that because they'rethere, or they're feeling some
serious FOMO out there.
But we've got a good episodehere for you to tide you over
with some good Bev Alk industrycontent for you.
So let's jump right into it.
Our guest today is theco-founder of 11C Co.
(03:03):
Welcome to the show, MichelleIvey.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Thank you.
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Michelle, thanks for joining us.
Can you tell us a little bitabout Eleven C Co and sort of
what falls under that umbrellaand what other things you're
involved in?
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Sure.
So 11C Company was founded uhquite a while ago, actually.
It was founded back in 2014 whenmyself and my co-founder Caleb
Rexer were working on a brandthat we were also founders of
called Illegal Mezcal.
And way back then, we were avery, very poor startup Mezcal
(03:40):
brand with zero dollars.
And as everyone in this industryknows, we work in something in
the US called the three-tiersystem.
And brands have a lot ofactivities that you might want
to do, particularly in theon-premise, where you really
have to have an agency executeon your behalf.
And because we had zero dollars,we found it was best to create
(04:01):
our own agency and hireourselves.
So that is the actual origin ofEleven C and Company was we
created the agency so that wecould execute on our own behalf
and do agency work in the UnitedStates for the brand Illegal
Mezcal that we were alsofounders of.
So Eleven C is the address of abar called Cafe No Say in
(04:21):
Antigua, Guatemala, which iswhere Illegal Mezcal was created
by a man named John Rexer, whois Caitlin Rexer's uncle.
So sort of a small family of us,and sort of adopted into that
family.
Created Illegal Mezcal.
It's where we all met.
It's also known as the Bad IdeaFactory.
Eleven C Co is awesome, the BadIdea Factory.
(04:44):
It's where we test out anythingand everything for brands.
So, what 11C Company is today,since we have actually exited
from Illegal Mezcal, we exitedthat brand fully to Bacardi in
2023.
11CM Company has uh stuckaround.
It is now a full service agencyto the point where it's not just
(05:06):
a creative agency, it's not justa brand agency.
We can do anything from ideationof a new product someone might
want to create all the way togetting something on the shelf.
So we uh meet with founders, wemeet with startups, that's the
level we prefer to work in, anddo any kind of service from
(05:26):
creating new labels for aTasmanian whiskey, which we did
recently, to actually executingstill on behalf of Illegal
Mezcal.
Now our client is Bacardi atAmericana Fest in Nashville just
last week.
So all kinds of activities goingon at 11C and Company, which is
based in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
I love the bad idea factory.
That's great.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
But if you don't go through all the bad ideas,
you'll never get to the goodones.
So that's okay.
Bad ideas are fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
What's the Thomas Edison quote?
I found a thousand ways thatdidn't work.
I just had to find the one waythat did or something.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
But that's what it is, right?
And even through 11C andCompany, I am now also serving
as the general manager for aphenomenal tequila brand that
launched this year called ChicaSteve Artides.
I am working on that brand onbehalf of Rock Nation and Megan
Thee Stallion.
They wanted to launch a tequilabrand.
It is the first project thatRock Nation and one of their
(06:25):
artists has done as a fullyindependent project.
It is not done with one of themultinationals as a partner.
So I helped them launch thatproject.
We launched in March, fully intomarket, completely independent.
That's been pretty phenomenal.
That's a very major project thatalso has come through that
agency too.
SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
That's amazing.
And just actually on that, sowith especially the rise in
tequilas and mezcos, like how doyou balance like trend chasing
with like brand authenticitywith like such a huge like
machine like Rock Nation and thevarious artists that are within
that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
So interestingly, I don't think one, tequila isn't a
trend, right?
I mean, it is uh it is aheritage category.
So one of the interesting thingsthat I think has really grown
out of that heritage category isthe appreciation in the United
States for the aged expressions.
Megan herself has gone throughthis health journey.
(07:20):
I think she surprised theindustry when she came out with
a tequila and not a cognac,which is she used to formally be
known as the cognac queen.
However, tequila isinterestingly known to
potentially be less impactful onyour glycemic index and all of
these other things.
So some people consider it ahealthier drink option.
(07:41):
I am not making any kind of FDAclaims.
Don't come at me, FTC.
I'm just saying that that isperceived, right?
And so I guess in thatperspective, there's a bit of
trend chasing there.
But I mean, drinking better hasalways been something that has
been an option in our industry.
If you think of people alwaystrading up it, right?
It's just a different languagepeople are using for it now,
(08:03):
drinking better.
So for Megan to come out withthis after her health journey
over the last couple of years,if anyone's seen her recently,
her health is phenomenal.
She's very concerned about herdiet.
She's really changed her workoutroutines and she looks amazing.
And she's produced the tequila,and her ways of drinking it are
either reposado on the rocks orranch water, which is a very
clean way of drinking abeautiful heritage spirit.
(08:25):
She's working with a phenomenalfactory that has
multi-generational ownership.
It's been around for 120 years.
It's called Centinella in theHighlands and has a phenomenal
vertical, owns their own agave.
So it's really, in a way, trendchasing, if you want to talk
about Better For You being atrend, but it's also heritage.
So I think it's a reallybalanced project.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
When you are launching, you know, whether
they're new products orcampaigns or what have you, talk
to me about market research.
We talk about that kind of thinga lot on this podcast.
And I'm curious about how you'reable to leverage that and has it
changed a lot in the past fewyears?
Obviously, social media andcelebrity-involved products, a
(09:08):
lot of these social mediacompanies are a little bit
close-hold with some of the datathat they'll actually release to
people who would really like toleverage that data.
How do you navigate all of that?
And, you know, we talk about theBad Ideas Factory.
Do you have sort of a scientificmethod when it comes to market
research, the way that you do asfar as it comes to brand
audition and so forth?
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
Yes and no.
So I think that you need tomarry your gut with data.
I don't think there's been asuccessful brand, a truly really
big successful brand that didn'thave both of those things.
There is another project.
This is a brand that I currentlyown that has recently launched.
It is not an alcohol project.
(09:50):
It's my first time personallydoing a project that is not
alcohol.
It is called Como No, whichmeans why not in Spanish.
It is caffeinated sparklingwater.
It is in the better for youfunctional energy beverage
space.
So it is a 12-ounce tallslimline can, has 100 milligrams
of caffeine, zero calories, zerosugar.
(10:11):
And it's presented in a line offlavors that have a Latin
American approach.
So we have prickly pear andlime, pineapple tamarind, mango
chili.
It's coming from thatperspective.
And the way we develop thoseflavor profiles.
Well, let me talk about wherethe project came from in the
first place.
Because the whole thing, the wayit developed and where it came
(10:31):
from is a mix of gut and data,right?
Because it's slapping us in theface every day in the news about
better for you beverage, betterfor you energy, better for you
functional.
Walmart has changed its entiresoda aisle just because of the
data that's out there on thistype of beverage category.
But three years ago, when myselfand some of the other team for
(10:52):
Illegal were at events likeSouth by Southwest and
Coachella, and you do all thisbranding work and you build out
this whole activation forIllegal Mezcal, and the most
popular drink is a ranch water,and you've got somebody there
like Topo Chico, and everybodytakes your very well-branded
shot of Illegal Mezcal, pours itin their bottle of Topo Chico,
(11:14):
and walks away.
And all you see out there is asea of Topo Chico bottles.
You're a little frustrated.
So we that idea factory gottogether and brainstormed around
what's coming, what are youseeing?
What's out there?
Because you've got to be outthere in the world.
You can't create a brand frombehind a computer screen.
You can't know what's reallygoing on from a spreadsheet,
like what's happening in theworld, what are people actually
(11:37):
doing?
And that's where the whole ideafor this drink started in the
first place.
And then we're a bunch ofcaffeine junkies.
So instead of just having asparkling water, we decided we
wanted to have caffeine in ittoo.
And then, based on what's justhappening in the functional
energy world, we decided to addL-theanine also.
And then we created the firstproduct.
It was actually called Cafe NoSay, it was not called this.
(11:58):
And we took it to South bySouthwest the next year, and we
took it to Coachella the nextyear, and we gave it away.
And we got feedback fromeveryone.
And so we did our marketresearch on our budget, which
was nothing.
And we just solicited all thefeedback we could get.
And one, we realized thateveryone in the United States
that sees the word cafe on abottle or a can thinks it has
(12:19):
coffee in it.
And our caffeine came from greentea leaves.
So that's a problem.
That's confusing.
So then we decided, well, webetter readdress our name
because this is problematic.
And then we went back, looked atour flavors, took back on all
the data, all the feedbackeverybody gave us.
We realized we needed to kind ofpunch up the bubbles a little
bit based on the data that wereceived from everyone, which we
(12:42):
got back for free because wejust went out there and
solicited it ourselves.
We also did a lot of surveys onour own social media accounts
about the feedback on thecaffeine amounts, on the
L-theanine levels, and all ofthese things.
And then we went to a companycalled Carrie, K-E-R-R-Y.
They're an actual ingredientscompany.
There are tons of ingredientscompanies out there that will
(13:04):
actually do RD as your partnerfor free because once they get
you to a place that you have aformula, you need a place to buy
ingredients.
Then you're their customer.
So we went to them, they helpedus reformulate, we renamed the
package Come Ono.
We came to a phenomenal productand we just launched like three
months ago.
So I guess what I'm saying isthat, you know, you've got to
(13:26):
have a combination of data andgut.
And like there's a thousand waysto get data that you don't have
to pay for if you're willing todo the work.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
I'm curious, how does 11C and Company interface
or work with MHW?
Sort of what brought about theconverging of all of these minds
on this very podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
The way MHW and 11C intersect initially is through
the Chicas D Vertitas project.
Chica's is looking to do someinnovation.
I, on site at Chica's, as the GMrunning the brand on behalf of
them, I'm essentially a team ofone.
I mean, I have a millionresources through the Rock
Nation team, but I'm essentiallya team of one.
(14:06):
And as I was looking out thereto say, how am I going to manage
some innovation projects?
And I need, I need some support.
And the innovation they'relooking to do is through some
major national retailers.
There's a lot of work there.
We all know the back work there.
I can innovate a project all daylong.
But then there's forecasting,there's all kinds of supply
(14:27):
chain, lots of things that needto be done.
And then I was introducedthrough Bridget to Ian with the
concept of Brand Arc, which Ifound fascinating and it's
amazing.
And I have been discussingBrandArc since that introduction
with so many people now in theindustry to say, like, I feel
like it's like you're able tobring onto your team a full-time
project manager, likeimmediately, instant, an
(14:49):
instant, full-time experienceproject manager.
And I think it's a fascinatingservice.
And that's how we connected.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
And to go from there, like being in that in
that space, talking to likeprospective brand owners,
talking about their ideas,you're really the kind of like
North Star, like the playbookthat people want to recreate in
terms of someone who started abrand, did it the right way,
built it up over time, andexited.
Um, what what keeps you comingback to working with new brands,
seeing as you've kind of beenthrough it and as you know, it's
(15:15):
a very taxing, uh, taxing role.
So, what what excites you tocome back and work with other
brands and just to kind of getback on the horse and do it all
over again?
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
I love it.
So I love it.
And I've been asked thisquestion, and I say I learned so
much.
So Illegal Mezcal was my firstspirits brand.
I've been in the hospitality andspirits industry my whole life.
I started as a dive bartender inPhilly at 18 years old.
Go birds.
But I will say that I learned amassive amount.
(15:47):
Over my time at Illegal, I ledall our rounds of fundraising, I
led all of our innovation.
I led all our ops.
I built our sales team.
I did all our rollouts in everymarket when we went national
with southern.
Sometimes I look back and I haveno idea.
Like I must not have slept.
But I learned so much and I knowhow to do it all better now.
(16:08):
And I so I want to do it againfor myself and I want to help
and coach other brands throughdoing it better.
It's that's it.
Like I feel like if I don't doit again, and if I don't do it
again with others, it's almostlike things go to waste because
I know more, more better.
Now I really sound like I'm fromPhilly.
(16:29):
I know more better how to do it.
That's the answer.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
You've talked about how you've been there, you've
done all of that.
Do you have, I guess, anyspecific pieces of advice for
newer brands out there who aretrying to do it all on a
shoestring budget, other thanperhaps just hire you or hire
Ian?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
Yeah.
Yes.
And you've had people on this,I'm sure, say it before.
It's a couple of things.
It's stay narrow and focused.
However, I think that can meandifferent things for different
brands.
I was just discussing this withsomeone the other day.
It doesn't necessarily mean oneor two markets.
It could mean eight states, butin those eight states, it's
(17:06):
very, very, very well definedwhere you're going to be, but
narrow and focused.
And that has to be veryspecifically defined.
On top of that, you just need tosay no.
You need to say no a lot.
Like things are going to be likeflashy, great opportunities,
like just say no, especially sayno.
I'm so sorry.
But say no to Costco.
Say no to all the big boxstores.
(17:27):
Just say no.
Say no, say no, say no.
Because you just really need towork in your brand build for a
very, very long time, infinitelylonger than you think that you
do.
And your distributor andeveryone else is going to push
you for these deals that theyhave and just say no.
Just say no.
And the last one is do notlaunch in New York City unless
New York City is your backyard.
(17:50):
Launch in your backyard.
I don't care what your backyardis.
I don't care.
I don't know.
I'm going to piss off peoplefrom Sheboykan.
I don't even know whereSheboykan is.
Like whatever your yard is,that's where you belong.
Like that's your network.
You launch in your networkbecause it's a waste to like to
not do that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Wisconsinites catching strays on the podcast
here.
I do want to ask, can you I'mthe lay person on this podcast.
I do not have a background inthis industry, though I have
learned a lot in the past twoyears doing this podcast.
Um when you say say no toCostco, obviously you're just
you're just throwing out anexample, but can you, for
someone outside of this thisindustry, to me that sounds
(18:29):
like, oh my God, you've made it.
This is it, you've hit the bigtime.
Can you tell me why you mightwant to pump the brakes on
something like that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
I'm saying why because there's um a lot of
complications with margins andcosts and supply chain issues
and forecasting and demands thatget really complicated, that you
definitely need a person likeIan to help you with.
They're very advanced companystrategies, more than a brand
(18:58):
strategy.
And I feel that often,especially larger distributors,
because they want to pack you inwith some other things they're
already doing, really push smallbrands into these situations
that they don't belong in.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
I have a question, honestly, since you referenced
the bad ideas factory, like I'mdying to know.
Like, is there one that you andyour colleagues like still kind
of reminisce over or talk about?
Or is there one that maybe islike a really bad idea, but
you'd love to turn it into agood idea at a very high level
as an example?
Is there is there one that likespecific example that you could
talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
I can tell you this is more than a bad idea.
This is the dumbest, dumbest,dumb, dumb, dumb idea you've
ever heard.
And I don't even care.
John Rexer's probably gonna bemad at me for telling you, and
that's okay.
In the very early days ofIllegal, like so early, myself
and Caitlin Rexer weren'tinvolved yet.
Because even though we'reconsidered founders, we weren't
(19:52):
there on day one.
But a couple of the people thatJohn had with him on day one
were not the brightest bulbs inthe forest.
And one of the people he hadworking with him could not
figure out how they were gonnaget the label to adhere to the
bottle.
So he decided that the best wayto do it was to use Velcro.
And he created a label thatwould be velcroed to the bottle.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
But how do you get the velcro to stick to the
bottle?
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
The back of the velcro.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Well, that already had glue on it.
I guess he was gonna like handcreate labels and velcro them to
the bottle.
I'm pretty sure that John inCafe No Sain in Guatemala still
has one of the Velcro bottles.
He is basically has a museumdown there in his little tiny
office.
(20:38):
Velcro.
What the who how?
How?
How?
Have you never drank anything inyour life?
How do you have you not evengotten drunk at a frat party and
peeled a coarse light label offa bottle before?
Like what is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
I'm picturing a very, very niche application for
military people.
Patches are really, reallycommon, not just for units, but
they're also, we call them motopatches, motivational patches,
which are just they're usuallysome kind of joke, a lot of dark
humor involved.
And to be able to slap a patchon your bottle, that's kind of
that's kind of cool.
I I think when I was in themilitary, I'd be up for that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Okay, see, but this is why there are no bad ideas.
Because now we're gonna makesomething.
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
This was what I was gonna say, there's a fine line,
I think, between a really badidea and a really good idea.
And kind of my whenever I'mtalking to like potential brands
and they're they're pitchingideas and we're we're ideating,
my worst fear is being a quotein 20 years' time in like the
New York Times of like this willnever work.
Like one I always think of is uhLord Alan Sugar from the UK, who
(21:41):
famously, I think in like theearly 2000s was like the iPod
like won't make it pastChristmas um of that year.
And then you laugh at now, likethe Apple is obviously a
trillion, trillion dollarcompany.
So it's like in the moment itcan come across as like, how is
this gonna work?
But actually, sometimes thecrazy people that just keep
going and making it to try andmake it happen tend to look back
(22:02):
and uh have the last laugh allthe way to the bank.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Okay, now you've got me stuck on it, Jimmy.
Now we're gonna make a brandthat has Velcro.
But I'm like, how do you getpast how do you get a cola
approval on a Velcro label?
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
I know what a what a fun just one-off, maybe just a
promotional thing, like slapyour patch on there.
I don't know.
It would kill in A-Fies, PX, andBXs around the world, which is
not a very big market, but yousaid hyper focus.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
You wanna I mean I will say some common things that
are honestly bad ideas thatpeople do early on are pack
size.
People are like, everybody wants200 mls, everybody wants 375s,
everybody wants 50 mls.
You know, you just need to focuson growing your brand.
(22:49):
Like you don't need to be doingthat.
You don't need to be doing allthat right now.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
What's the broad general recommendation?
Do you just do a 750 if you're aspirit?
SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
Yes, although I think it's it'd be interesting
to do a whole nother podcastthinking around now that there's
broader accepted pack sizes inthe US, you can look at doing
700 MLs now, which I think is areally interesting idea to talk
about margins and cost savingsand like you're still kind of
looking on the shelf like theother sizes, but but you still
(23:18):
just need to focus on your onesize.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Is that a shift that we're seeing?
Because I haven't noticed 700son my local shelves.
Is it shrinkflation?
What is this?
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
People are talking about doing it.
Because in Europe, if you'realready only in a 700 ml, I
think brands are gonna stopcreating a 750 for the United
States because why bother doingit now that you don't have to do
it anymore?
So I think you're gonna startseeing them.
And so then once you're startingto see them in popular brands
that are coming from out of thecountry, maybe US brands should
(23:48):
start doing a 700 ml becauseyour cost of goods is gonna be
better.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Especially if you're looking to export to to foreign
markets where the 700 is thekind of king.
And just to add to that, justone brand that I really love,
and I'll give them a free plugwith Boat Yard Irish Gin, in the
European markets, they have a2.8 liter pouch that they use on
trade.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
So it's part of their sustainability push,
they're a B Cor certified umcompany.
And what's cool about in the UK,they have an arrangement with
the with the government wherethey have um essentially free
posts.
So essentially, if a bar buyssix of these 2.8-liter pouches,
they could fill up all theirbottles that they have on shelf
and in the well, and theyessentially just like empty them
out and then pop them in themailbox and they go back to the
(24:30):
distillery and they can bereused and re-bashed and
retracked.
So that's great.
That's something that I actuallytalked about on a previous talk
I did recently for the IrishDrinks Forum in terms of
innovation for the UnitedStates.
So obviously, the US as a marketis obviously there's a lot of
doom and gloom about theindustry as a whole, with the
kind of current economic climateand political climate, but there
is like room for innovation, andsometimes during the hardest
(24:52):
times is when the bestinnovations occur.
So I feel like that for brandsthat are heavily on premise and
they want to like reduce theircarbon footprint, and by doing
so, reducing cogs, that thatcould be something really
interesting to check out is theboatyard gin um 2.8 liter pouch,
because I think a three-liter isacceptable now on the the new
TTB standards of fill forspirits.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
I think that's right.
I think that's the big size thatgot added on.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
And now for our final fun question that we like
to ask all of our guests.
What is your favorite adultbeverage of choice lately?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
I am not a cop out.
I enjoy a lot of different kindsof beverages because I just took
a very lengthy trip to Maine.
I enjoyed a lot of beer.
Uh, hit a lot of breweries upthere, but I routinely I am a
classic cocktail drinker.
I am a Manhattan and a martinidrinker, to be honest.
Gin martinis and Manhattan's.
(25:46):
That's those are my drinks ofchoice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
A local beer, a gin martini, and a Manhattan can't
beat it.
Michelle Ivey, we want to saythank you so much for sharing
your time and expertise with us.
Um, we'd love to have you backon the podcast sometime.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I would love it.
It was great.
Thank you both so much.
Ian, Jimmy, I had a great time.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
And thank you, listeners, for joining us on the
MHW Mark Podcast.
And thanks again to Ian Perezfor joining me and hosting.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
Thank you so much, Jimmy.
Pleasure as always.
Hopefully, I will not have towait another year to chat.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland,
with booking and planningsupport by Cassidy Poe and
Bridget McCabe.
It's presented by MHW.
Find out more at MHWLTD.com orconnect with MHW on LinkedIn.
Lend us a hand by subscribing,rating, and reviewing this
podcast wherever you listen.
We'll be back in your feed intwo weeks.
We'll see you then.
Cheers.
Welcome to the MHW Mark Podcast, where we take deep
dives into various aspects ofthe alcohol industry.
My name is Jimmy Moreland.
MHW is a US and EU beveragealcohol importer, distributor,
and service provider.
Welcoming back to the show,returning champion, the OG
co-host, Ian Perez.
Welcome back, sir.
SPEAKER_02 (00:26):
Jimmy, I know it's been so long.
How have you been?
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
I've been really well.
I went back and looked in thefeed, and the last time we had
you on the podcast was July of2024.
It's been over a year.
My how the time flies.
Can you believe we've been doingthis podcast for over two years
now?
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
I cannot believe.
I'm so happy that we are.
And I'm actually more shockedthat we haven't spoken since
July of last year, so we need torectify that going forward.
Hopefully, we can find more waysto get myself on because I
always enjoy chatting with youand all of our wonderful guests.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
Well, you know, I always see uh your Instagram
stories of you playing guitar,so I feel like we still have the
connection there.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02):
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
You and my mom.
For the listeners, you're reallymissing out on some quality
electric guitar solos.
No, it's just you and my mom.
The only two viewers I have,which I'm thankful for.
I'm gonna cut one of those intothis podcast so that people can
hear.
Um looking at the calendar here,as listeners get this episode,
(01:24):
we will be right in the middleof Bar Convent Berlin.
Now, will you be there?
What's going on?
I unfortunately will not bethere.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
Um, it is probably the premier show to go to,
especially from the barperspective, plus the name Bar
Comment Um Berlin.
It's a really great spot to seea lot of new interesting spirit
brands, especially.
Um, so especially if you're intococktails, there's gonna be cool
all types of whiskeys, somegins, vodkas, and tequila and
(01:54):
mezcal.
So, in terms of the shows to goto, it's one of the best ones to
go to, especially from um anattendee level, because there's
again wonderful cocktails, greatpeople.
It's a show that people put alot of money into.
So you'll see the displays arelike phenomenal um in terms of
all like the LEDs and lightingand all the accouchments that
those banners have.
So um, it's a really big show.
(02:14):
So you definitely have to haveyour comfy shoes on to try and
see as much of it as you can.
But for brands looking to eitherum European-based brands or
further and looking to getexport into the United States is
a great way to be visible for uhUS importers like MHW visiting
those shows, but also it's agreat opportunity for North
American, South American brandsto kind of put a flagpole in
(02:35):
Europe and announce themselvesto the world for the big EU
distributors and distributorsfrom like Asia and Southeast
Asia and Africa as well.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
So for people hearing this podcast, they
either know that because they'rethere, or they're feeling some
serious FOMO out there.
But we've got a good episodehere for you to tide you over
with some good Bev Alk industrycontent for you.
So let's jump right into it.
Our guest today is theco-founder of 11C Co.
(03:03):
Welcome to the show, MichelleIvey.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
Thank you.
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Michelle, thanks for joining us.
Can you tell us a little bitabout Eleven C Co and sort of
what falls under that umbrellaand what other things you're
involved in?
SPEAKER_00 (03:18):
Sure.
So 11C Company was founded uhquite a while ago, actually.
It was founded back in 2014 whenmyself and my co-founder Caleb
Rexer were working on a brandthat we were also founders of
called Illegal Mezcal.
And way back then, we were avery, very poor startup Mezcal
(03:40):
brand with zero dollars.
And as everyone in this industryknows, we work in something in
the US called the three-tiersystem.
And brands have a lot ofactivities that you might want
to do, particularly in theon-premise, where you really
have to have an agency executeon your behalf.
And because we had zero dollars,we found it was best to create
(04:01):
our own agency and hireourselves.
So that is the actual origin ofEleven C and Company was we
created the agency so that wecould execute on our own behalf
and do agency work in the UnitedStates for the brand Illegal
Mezcal that we were alsofounders of.
So Eleven C is the address of abar called Cafe No Say in
(04:21):
Antigua, Guatemala, which iswhere Illegal Mezcal was created
by a man named John Rexer, whois Caitlin Rexer's uncle.
So sort of a small family of us,and sort of adopted into that
family.
Created Illegal Mezcal.
It's where we all met.
It's also known as the Bad IdeaFactory.
Eleven C Co is awesome, the BadIdea Factory.
(04:44):
It's where we test out anythingand everything for brands.
So, what 11C Company is today,since we have actually exited
from Illegal Mezcal, we exitedthat brand fully to Bacardi in
2023.
11CM Company has uh stuckaround.
It is now a full service agencyto the point where it's not just
(05:06):
a creative agency, it's not justa brand agency.
We can do anything from ideationof a new product someone might
want to create all the way togetting something on the shelf.
So we uh meet with founders, wemeet with startups, that's the
level we prefer to work in, anddo any kind of service from
(05:26):
creating new labels for aTasmanian whiskey, which we did
recently, to actually executingstill on behalf of Illegal
Mezcal.
Now our client is Bacardi atAmericana Fest in Nashville just
last week.
So all kinds of activities goingon at 11C and Company, which is
based in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (05:45):
I love the bad idea factory.
That's great.
SPEAKER_00 (05:50):
But if you don't go through all the bad ideas,
you'll never get to the goodones.
So that's okay.
Bad ideas are fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
What's the Thomas Edison quote?
I found a thousand ways thatdidn't work.
I just had to find the one waythat did or something.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
But that's what it is, right?
And even through 11C andCompany, I am now also serving
as the general manager for aphenomenal tequila brand that
launched this year called ChicaSteve Artides.
I am working on that brand onbehalf of Rock Nation and Megan
Thee Stallion.
They wanted to launch a tequilabrand.
It is the first project thatRock Nation and one of their
(06:25):
artists has done as a fullyindependent project.
It is not done with one of themultinationals as a partner.
So I helped them launch thatproject.
We launched in March, fully intomarket, completely independent.
That's been pretty phenomenal.
That's a very major project thatalso has come through that
agency too.
SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
That's amazing.
And just actually on that, sowith especially the rise in
tequilas and mezcos, like how doyou balance like trend chasing
with like brand authenticitywith like such a huge like
machine like Rock Nation and thevarious artists that are within
that?
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
So interestingly, I don't think one, tequila isn't a
trend, right?
I mean, it is uh it is aheritage category.
So one of the interesting thingsthat I think has really grown
out of that heritage category isthe appreciation in the United
States for the aged expressions.
Megan herself has gone throughthis health journey.
(07:20):
I think she surprised theindustry when she came out with
a tequila and not a cognac,which is she used to formally be
known as the cognac queen.
However, tequila isinterestingly known to
potentially be less impactful onyour glycemic index and all of
these other things.
So some people consider it ahealthier drink option.
(07:41):
I am not making any kind of FDAclaims.
Don't come at me, FTC.
I'm just saying that that isperceived, right?
And so I guess in thatperspective, there's a bit of
trend chasing there.
But I mean, drinking better hasalways been something that has
been an option in our industry.
If you think of people alwaystrading up it, right?
It's just a different languagepeople are using for it now,
(08:03):
drinking better.
So for Megan to come out withthis after her health journey
over the last couple of years,if anyone's seen her recently,
her health is phenomenal.
She's very concerned about herdiet.
She's really changed her workoutroutines and she looks amazing.
And she's produced the tequila,and her ways of drinking it are
either reposado on the rocks orranch water, which is a very
clean way of drinking abeautiful heritage spirit.
(08:25):
She's working with a phenomenalfactory that has
multi-generational ownership.
It's been around for 120 years.
It's called Centinella in theHighlands and has a phenomenal
vertical, owns their own agave.
So it's really, in a way, trendchasing, if you want to talk
about Better For You being atrend, but it's also heritage.
So I think it's a reallybalanced project.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
When you are launching, you know, whether
they're new products orcampaigns or what have you, talk
to me about market research.
We talk about that kind of thinga lot on this podcast.
And I'm curious about how you'reable to leverage that and has it
changed a lot in the past fewyears?
Obviously, social media andcelebrity-involved products, a
(09:08):
lot of these social mediacompanies are a little bit
close-hold with some of the datathat they'll actually release to
people who would really like toleverage that data.
How do you navigate all of that?
And, you know, we talk about theBad Ideas Factory.
Do you have sort of a scientificmethod when it comes to market
research, the way that you do asfar as it comes to brand
audition and so forth?
SPEAKER_00 (09:29):
Yes and no.
So I think that you need tomarry your gut with data.
I don't think there's been asuccessful brand, a truly really
big successful brand that didn'thave both of those things.
There is another project.
This is a brand that I currentlyown that has recently launched.
It is not an alcohol project.
(09:50):
It's my first time personallydoing a project that is not
alcohol.
It is called Como No, whichmeans why not in Spanish.
It is caffeinated sparklingwater.
It is in the better for youfunctional energy beverage
space.
So it is a 12-ounce tallslimline can, has 100 milligrams
of caffeine, zero calories, zerosugar.
(10:11):
And it's presented in a line offlavors that have a Latin
American approach.
So we have prickly pear andlime, pineapple tamarind, mango
chili.
It's coming from thatperspective.
And the way we develop thoseflavor profiles.
Well, let me talk about wherethe project came from in the
first place.
Because the whole thing, the wayit developed and where it came
(10:31):
from is a mix of gut and data,right?
Because it's slapping us in theface every day in the news about
better for you beverage, betterfor you energy, better for you
functional.
Walmart has changed its entiresoda aisle just because of the
data that's out there on thistype of beverage category.
But three years ago, when myselfand some of the other team for
(10:52):
Illegal were at events likeSouth by Southwest and
Coachella, and you do all thisbranding work and you build out
this whole activation forIllegal Mezcal, and the most
popular drink is a ranch water,and you've got somebody there
like Topo Chico, and everybodytakes your very well-branded
shot of Illegal Mezcal, pours itin their bottle of Topo Chico,
(11:14):
and walks away.
And all you see out there is asea of Topo Chico bottles.
You're a little frustrated.
So we that idea factory gottogether and brainstormed around
what's coming, what are youseeing?
What's out there?
Because you've got to be outthere in the world.
You can't create a brand frombehind a computer screen.
You can't know what's reallygoing on from a spreadsheet,
like what's happening in theworld, what are people actually
(11:37):
doing?
And that's where the whole ideafor this drink started in the
first place.
And then we're a bunch ofcaffeine junkies.
So instead of just having asparkling water, we decided we
wanted to have caffeine in ittoo.
And then, based on what's justhappening in the functional
energy world, we decided to addL-theanine also.
And then we created the firstproduct.
It was actually called Cafe NoSay, it was not called this.
(11:58):
And we took it to South bySouthwest the next year, and we
took it to Coachella the nextyear, and we gave it away.
And we got feedback fromeveryone.
And so we did our marketresearch on our budget, which
was nothing.
And we just solicited all thefeedback we could get.
And one, we realized thateveryone in the United States
that sees the word cafe on abottle or a can thinks it has
(12:19):
coffee in it.
And our caffeine came from greentea leaves.
So that's a problem.
That's confusing.
So then we decided, well, webetter readdress our name
because this is problematic.
And then we went back, looked atour flavors, took back on all
the data, all the feedbackeverybody gave us.
We realized we needed to kind ofpunch up the bubbles a little
bit based on the data that wereceived from everyone, which we
(12:42):
got back for free because wejust went out there and
solicited it ourselves.
We also did a lot of surveys onour own social media accounts
about the feedback on thecaffeine amounts, on the
L-theanine levels, and all ofthese things.
And then we went to a companycalled Carrie, K-E-R-R-Y.
They're an actual ingredientscompany.
There are tons of ingredientscompanies out there that will
(13:04):
actually do RD as your partnerfor free because once they get
you to a place that you have aformula, you need a place to buy
ingredients.
Then you're their customer.
So we went to them, they helpedus reformulate, we renamed the
package Come Ono.
We came to a phenomenal productand we just launched like three
months ago.
So I guess what I'm saying isthat, you know, you've got to
(13:26):
have a combination of data andgut.
And like there's a thousand waysto get data that you don't have
to pay for if you're willing todo the work.
SPEAKER_01 (13:33):
I'm curious, how does 11C and Company interface
or work with MHW?
Sort of what brought about theconverging of all of these minds
on this very podcast?
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
The way MHW and 11C intersect initially is through
the Chicas D Vertitas project.
Chica's is looking to do someinnovation.
I, on site at Chica's, as the GMrunning the brand on behalf of
them, I'm essentially a team ofone.
I mean, I have a millionresources through the Rock
Nation team, but I'm essentiallya team of one.
(14:06):
And as I was looking out thereto say, how am I going to manage
some innovation projects?
And I need, I need some support.
And the innovation they'relooking to do is through some
major national retailers.
There's a lot of work there.
We all know the back work there.
I can innovate a project all daylong.
But then there's forecasting,there's all kinds of supply
(14:27):
chain, lots of things that needto be done.
And then I was introducedthrough Bridget to Ian with the
concept of Brand Arc, which Ifound fascinating and it's
amazing.
And I have been discussingBrandArc since that introduction
with so many people now in theindustry to say, like, I feel
like it's like you're able tobring onto your team a full-time
project manager, likeimmediately, instant, an
(14:49):
instant, full-time experienceproject manager.
And I think it's a fascinatingservice.
And that's how we connected.
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
And to go from there, like being in that in
that space, talking to likeprospective brand owners,
talking about their ideas,you're really the kind of like
North Star, like the playbookthat people want to recreate in
terms of someone who started abrand, did it the right way,
built it up over time, andexited.
Um, what what keeps you comingback to working with new brands,
seeing as you've kind of beenthrough it and as you know, it's
(15:15):
a very taxing, uh, taxing role.
So, what what excites you tocome back and work with other
brands and just to kind of getback on the horse and do it all
over again?
SPEAKER_00 (15:24):
I love it.
So I love it.
And I've been asked thisquestion, and I say I learned so
much.
So Illegal Mezcal was my firstspirits brand.
I've been in the hospitality andspirits industry my whole life.
I started as a dive bartender inPhilly at 18 years old.
Go birds.
But I will say that I learned amassive amount.
(15:47):
Over my time at Illegal, I ledall our rounds of fundraising, I
led all of our innovation.
I led all our ops.
I built our sales team.
I did all our rollouts in everymarket when we went national
with southern.
Sometimes I look back and I haveno idea.
Like I must not have slept.
But I learned so much and I knowhow to do it all better now.
(16:08):
And I so I want to do it againfor myself and I want to help
and coach other brands throughdoing it better.
It's that's it.
Like I feel like if I don't doit again, and if I don't do it
again with others, it's almostlike things go to waste because
I know more, more better.
Now I really sound like I'm fromPhilly.
(16:29):
I know more better how to do it.
That's the answer.
SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
You've talked about how you've been there, you've
done all of that.
Do you have, I guess, anyspecific pieces of advice for
newer brands out there who aretrying to do it all on a
shoestring budget, other thanperhaps just hire you or hire
Ian?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
Yeah.
Yes.
And you've had people on this,I'm sure, say it before.
It's a couple of things.
It's stay narrow and focused.
However, I think that can meandifferent things for different
brands.
I was just discussing this withsomeone the other day.
It doesn't necessarily mean oneor two markets.
It could mean eight states, butin those eight states, it's
(17:06):
very, very, very well definedwhere you're going to be, but
narrow and focused.
And that has to be veryspecifically defined.
On top of that, you just need tosay no.
You need to say no a lot.
Like things are going to be likeflashy, great opportunities,
like just say no, especially sayno.
I'm so sorry.
But say no to Costco.
Say no to all the big boxstores.
(17:27):
Just say no.
Say no, say no, say no.
Because you just really need towork in your brand build for a
very, very long time, infinitelylonger than you think that you
do.
And your distributor andeveryone else is going to push
you for these deals that theyhave and just say no.
Just say no.
And the last one is do notlaunch in New York City unless
New York City is your backyard.
(17:50):
Launch in your backyard.
I don't care what your backyardis.
I don't care.
I don't know.
I'm going to piss off peoplefrom Sheboykan.
I don't even know whereSheboykan is.
Like whatever your yard is,that's where you belong.
Like that's your network.
You launch in your networkbecause it's a waste to like to
not do that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Wisconsinites catching strays on the podcast
here.
I do want to ask, can you I'mthe lay person on this podcast.
I do not have a background inthis industry, though I have
learned a lot in the past twoyears doing this podcast.
Um when you say say no toCostco, obviously you're just
you're just throwing out anexample, but can you, for
someone outside of this thisindustry, to me that sounds
(18:29):
like, oh my God, you've made it.
This is it, you've hit the bigtime.
Can you tell me why you mightwant to pump the brakes on
something like that?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
I'm saying why because there's um a lot of
complications with margins andcosts and supply chain issues
and forecasting and demands thatget really complicated, that you
definitely need a person likeIan to help you with.
They're very advanced companystrategies, more than a brand
(18:58):
strategy.
And I feel that often,especially larger distributors,
because they want to pack you inwith some other things they're
already doing, really push smallbrands into these situations
that they don't belong in.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
I have a question, honestly, since you referenced
the bad ideas factory, like I'mdying to know.
Like, is there one that you andyour colleagues like still kind
of reminisce over or talk about?
Or is there one that maybe islike a really bad idea, but
you'd love to turn it into agood idea at a very high level
as an example?
Is there is there one that likespecific example that you could
talk about?
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
I can tell you this is more than a bad idea.
This is the dumbest, dumbest,dumb, dumb, dumb idea you've
ever heard.
And I don't even care.
John Rexer's probably gonna bemad at me for telling you, and
that's okay.
In the very early days ofIllegal, like so early, myself
and Caitlin Rexer weren'tinvolved yet.
Because even though we'reconsidered founders, we weren't
(19:52):
there on day one.
But a couple of the people thatJohn had with him on day one
were not the brightest bulbs inthe forest.
And one of the people he hadworking with him could not
figure out how they were gonnaget the label to adhere to the
bottle.
So he decided that the best wayto do it was to use Velcro.
And he created a label thatwould be velcroed to the bottle.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
But how do you get the velcro to stick to the
bottle?
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
The back of the velcro.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Well, that already had glue on it.
I guess he was gonna like handcreate labels and velcro them to
the bottle.
I'm pretty sure that John inCafe No Sain in Guatemala still
has one of the Velcro bottles.
He is basically has a museumdown there in his little tiny
office.
(20:38):
Velcro.
What the who how?
How?
How?
Have you never drank anything inyour life?
How do you have you not evengotten drunk at a frat party and
peeled a coarse light label offa bottle before?
Like what is wrong with you?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
I'm picturing a very, very niche application for
military people.
Patches are really, reallycommon, not just for units, but
they're also, we call them motopatches, motivational patches,
which are just they're usuallysome kind of joke, a lot of dark
humor involved.
And to be able to slap a patchon your bottle, that's kind of
that's kind of cool.
I I think when I was in themilitary, I'd be up for that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Okay, see, but this is why there are no bad ideas.
Because now we're gonna makesomething.
SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
This was what I was gonna say, there's a fine line,
I think, between a really badidea and a really good idea.
And kind of my whenever I'mtalking to like potential brands
and they're they're pitchingideas and we're we're ideating,
my worst fear is being a quotein 20 years' time in like the
New York Times of like this willnever work.
Like one I always think of is uhLord Alan Sugar from the UK, who
(21:41):
famously, I think in like theearly 2000s was like the iPod
like won't make it pastChristmas um of that year.
And then you laugh at now, likethe Apple is obviously a
trillion, trillion dollarcompany.
So it's like in the moment itcan come across as like, how is
this gonna work?
But actually, sometimes thecrazy people that just keep
going and making it to try andmake it happen tend to look back
(22:02):
and uh have the last laugh allthe way to the bank.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Okay, now you've got me stuck on it, Jimmy.
Now we're gonna make a brandthat has Velcro.
But I'm like, how do you getpast how do you get a cola
approval on a Velcro label?
SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
I know what a what a fun just one-off, maybe just a
promotional thing, like slapyour patch on there.
I don't know.
It would kill in A-Fies, PX, andBXs around the world, which is
not a very big market, but yousaid hyper focus.
SPEAKER_00 (22:28):
You wanna I mean I will say some common things that
are honestly bad ideas thatpeople do early on are pack
size.
People are like, everybody wants200 mls, everybody wants 375s,
everybody wants 50 mls.
You know, you just need to focuson growing your brand.
(22:49):
Like you don't need to be doingthat.
You don't need to be doing allthat right now.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
What's the broad general recommendation?
Do you just do a 750 if you're aspirit?
SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
Yes, although I think it's it'd be interesting
to do a whole nother podcastthinking around now that there's
broader accepted pack sizes inthe US, you can look at doing
700 MLs now, which I think is areally interesting idea to talk
about margins and cost savingsand like you're still kind of
looking on the shelf like theother sizes, but but you still
(23:18):
just need to focus on your onesize.
SPEAKER_01 (23:19):
Is that a shift that we're seeing?
Because I haven't noticed 700son my local shelves.
Is it shrinkflation?
What is this?
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
People are talking about doing it.
Because in Europe, if you'realready only in a 700 ml, I
think brands are gonna stopcreating a 750 for the United
States because why bother doingit now that you don't have to do
it anymore?
So I think you're gonna startseeing them.
And so then once you're startingto see them in popular brands
that are coming from out of thecountry, maybe US brands should
(23:48):
start doing a 700 ml becauseyour cost of goods is gonna be
better.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Especially if you're looking to export to to foreign
markets where the 700 is thekind of king.
And just to add to that, justone brand that I really love,
and I'll give them a free plugwith Boat Yard Irish Gin, in the
European markets, they have a2.8 liter pouch that they use on
trade.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
So it's part of their sustainability push,
they're a B Cor certified umcompany.
And what's cool about in the UK,they have an arrangement with
the with the government wherethey have um essentially free
posts.
So essentially, if a bar buyssix of these 2.8-liter pouches,
they could fill up all theirbottles that they have on shelf
and in the well, and theyessentially just like empty them
out and then pop them in themailbox and they go back to the
(24:30):
distillery and they can bereused and re-bashed and
retracked.
So that's great.
That's something that I actuallytalked about on a previous talk
I did recently for the IrishDrinks Forum in terms of
innovation for the UnitedStates.
So obviously, the US as a marketis obviously there's a lot of
doom and gloom about theindustry as a whole, with the
kind of current economic climateand political climate, but there
is like room for innovation, andsometimes during the hardest
(24:52):
times is when the bestinnovations occur.
So I feel like that for brandsthat are heavily on premise and
they want to like reduce theircarbon footprint, and by doing
so, reducing cogs, that thatcould be something really
interesting to check out is theboatyard gin um 2.8 liter pouch,
because I think a three-liter isacceptable now on the the new
TTB standards of fill forspirits.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
I think that's right.
I think that's the big size thatgot added on.
SPEAKER_01 (25:17):
And now for our final fun question that we like
to ask all of our guests.
What is your favorite adultbeverage of choice lately?
SPEAKER_00 (25:26):
I am not a cop out.
I enjoy a lot of different kindsof beverages because I just took
a very lengthy trip to Maine.
I enjoyed a lot of beer.
Uh, hit a lot of breweries upthere, but I routinely I am a
classic cocktail drinker.
I am a Manhattan and a martinidrinker, to be honest.
Gin martinis and Manhattan's.
(25:46):
That's those are my drinks ofchoice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
A local beer, a gin martini, and a Manhattan can't
beat it.
Michelle Ivey, we want to saythank you so much for sharing
your time and expertise with us.
Um, we'd love to have you backon the podcast sometime.
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I would love it.
It was great.
Thank you both so much.
Ian, Jimmy, I had a great time.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
And thank you, listeners, for joining us on the
MHW Mark Podcast.
And thanks again to Ian Perezfor joining me and hosting.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
Thank you so much, Jimmy.
Pleasure as always.
Hopefully, I will not have towait another year to chat.
SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
This podcast is produced by me, Jimmy Moreland,
with booking and planningsupport by Cassidy Poe and
Bridget McCabe.
It's presented by MHW.
Find out more at MHWLTD.com orconnect with MHW on LinkedIn.
Lend us a hand by subscribing,rating, and reviewing this
podcast wherever you listen.
We'll be back in your feed intwo weeks.
We'll see you then.
Cheers.
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