Empowering Careers: Unveiling the Journey with Angel Mary

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This show is sponsored by den tenInsurance Services, helping businesses get the right
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policy from dent ten, you're givingback on a global scale. Hello all,

(00:21):
my entrepreneurs and business leaders, andwelcome to the Michael Esposito Show,
where I interview titans of industry inorder to inform, educate and inspire you
to be great. My guest todayis a first generation Indian American woman.
She uses her platform to share herlived experience as a corporate leader and brings
forward a diverse voice not commonly foundamong leadership speakers. An avid traveler visiting

(00:46):
many parts of the globe, sheuses these experiences in her professional life to
communicate effectively. Her background in sectorssuch as retail, government, finance,
real estate, and healthcare allows fora dynamic news look at common problems in
the corporate world. She is allabout motivating and inspiring others and is the

(01:07):
CEO of Star Trak Investments LLC.Please welcome Angel Mary. Thank you so
much for having me. Welcome AngelMary. I have taken on this task
of putting together the intro to myspeakers, and so what I started doing

(01:30):
is actually instead of creating this taskfor myself, is just going to their
website and downloading it. But asyou've witnessed, it's not always a smooth
ride for me to be able toread it exactly the way it is.
But I'm learning and I'm getting there. But one thing I would like to
add, and why I'm bringing thisall up to this whole intro, is

(01:51):
you're also Toastmaster with me, andI feel like a kinship with my fellow
Toastmasters and like a friendship of sortsbecause we don't hang out outside of Toastmasters
and we don't really talk outside ofour club meetings, but I do feel
this like friendship because when we're inToastmasters and when we give speeches, especially
our icebreaker, they're very personal,very personal stories. And then even during

(02:15):
our table topics discussions, they wesometimes bring in personal stories. And so
I feel that even though we don'thang out outside of Toastmasters, we all
get to know each other on sucha deep personal level that there's this bond.
So I was very excited today tocome in and meet with you because
I was like, I get tointerview a friend. Yeah. I think
that's also part of why my littletime management issue this morning happened, because

(02:38):
I was like, I'm interviewing AngelMary. It's all good. Yeah,
No, I completely agree. Ifeel like I wish I found Toastmasters about
twenty years ago. Yeah, really, because so much of what has transpired
in the last year together, wherewe've come together to really build our leadership

(02:59):
alities and our public speaking abilities.Just like you said, those table topics,
those personal icebreaker speeches, and forme personally, also when I'm writing
speeches, I always bring something personalto the table because it's just easier for
me to talk about personal things naturally, but because we're bringing those stories forward.

(03:20):
Similarly, I know more about youthan probably someone I would have worked
with as a colleague for many yearswho doesn't talk to me because that one
hour a week that we're meeting,we are bringing something personal to the table
to better ourselves, and then we'realso opening ourselves up for criticism, right,
Yes, yes, well, feedbackalways positive. Feel Yes, it
is positive feedback. But we dogush on each other at our Toastmaster's meeting,

(03:44):
and sometimes I wonder about that howhelpful it is. But I think
I've always I've always thrived off ofpositive reinforcement where my mother would be like,
you were a really good writer whenI really didn't want to write,
and so I would start writing becauseshe said that. Well, we just
got a new member into our clubbecause they were fielding different clubs in our
area and they came into hours andthey saw the way our feedback was.

(04:05):
Our evaluations were very constructive, positive, constructive, you know, tips and
pointers, and they wanted to bein our club for that reason. So
I do have a personal affinity toour club, yes, clearly biased being
the VP of membership. So ifyou want to join, you know where
how to join? Well, yeah, and definitely that's the Duchess County Regional

(04:28):
Chamber of Commerces Toastmasters, although wehave dropped that whole title so it's just
the Duchess Toastmasters, but that's theoriginal name. But part of that name
comes from, you know that thefoundation really right, So it was passed
on from different leaders and mentors inour Toastmasters club that you and I are
a part of of this positive,constructive feedback and it's that it's a good

(04:54):
cycle. You know, there's thesethese cycles that repeat themselves, and then
this one. It's a good cycleof mentor mentors and leaders in our Toastmasters
club who would give positive, constructivefeedback with tips to improve and not tear
down the speaker. Yes, andI felt that way from the very first
meeting that I had in the club, and I'm glad that that person felt

(05:16):
that way and that you have carriedon the baton yes yes, and continue
to do so. This podcast isnot going to be all about Toastmasters.
However, it is always nice togive up plug to Toastmasters because, like
you said, you wish you foundit twenty years ago. I'm not eating
yes with you because the same here, like it changed my life like Toastmasters.
And I'll say this for our listeners, is that like, if it's

(05:40):
not Toastmasters for you, if it'ssomething else but finding a platform to be
able to share your voice and tobe able to go out and I guess
learn more about yourself to share withothers and receive that feedback. The growth
is tremendous. And so from whenI started Toastmasters to where I am today,

(06:01):
that's only five years ago. Isay only, but it's five years
ago. The growth is way morethan the five years prior. Yes,
and absolutely has to do with whatyou said, being vulnerable by bringing our
personal stories in and that vulnerability andsharing it in front of people who you
don't know how it's going to landwith them. I mean, you're hoping

(06:24):
that they're going to be compassionate andempathetic and positive about your story. Yes,
so you're But what I've come tofind is when we tell our personal
stories people. First of all,we're already hardwired in our brains to listen
to a story. If you're tellingany if you're giving a speech, you're
doing a presentation at your job,anywhere you're going to be talking in front

(06:46):
of a group of people. Ifyou start spitting out facts, you're going
to lose them quickly. But ifyou frame those facts in a storyline,
people will naturally, even if they'rejust looking at their phone or looking at
their nails, are looking at thesky, they can't help but listen.
And once they start listening, thenyou've hooked them. Then you've got their
attention right. And I feel like, and this is the reason why I

(07:11):
do personal stories a lot, isbecause I don't think people can looking at
me, see okay, I havesomething in common with her. If I
don't share that, there's something that'sa real true commonality. Right, I
have children, Okay, this personmight have children, or oh we went
to the same school or school area, we grew up in the same region.
It could be anything, but thatone little piece in that story that

(07:33):
resonates with that person could be allit takes for them to feel like,
Okay, I feel like I understandthis person. I feel like I really
want to hear what they have tosay. And that's where that story really
comes in. That's why I reallyToastmasters really helps blossom that for us because
we have the TableTopics. We cantell story in that time, share a
story about this or whatever, andthen we have this opportunity to hone those

(07:55):
skills because what we do in Toastmasters, we're going to do in our their
life right in our personal lives andour professional lives whoever we're networking with all
of that. So and to thatpoint, to just go a little bit
deeper with that is that in termsof the life changing experience of Toastmasters or
public speaking or being vulnerable. SoI want us to understand that it's not

(08:18):
just Toastmasters, it's that it's thatvulnerability of sharing you start becoming the person
that you want to be. Iremember a time five years ago right where
I would curse on a very regularbasis in conversation. I knew that if
I was going to speak in publicor in a corporate setting, that I

(08:39):
would probably not need to curse ornot should not curse, is really what
I'm trying to say here, right. What I learned with Toastmasters was,
well, if I'm going to getup here on a weekly basis and speak
in front of in front of anaudience, and my choice is to not
curse, because there's plenty of publicspeakers who curse. And I'm not saying
I don't curse anymore, right,I'm just saying that if my choice is
eventually that's going to bleed into myregular life and it has to where I

(09:03):
really don't curse and I don't.It's like the chicken in the egg.
It's like, do I not cursein my regular life because I don't want
to curse on stage? Or doI not curse on stage because I don't
want to curse anymore? In myregular life anymore. Yeah, I feel
like I had that period. Iwas a good girl growing up. I
never cursed. Then I went tocollege and every other word was curse word
because we're in college and we're kidsand we're crazy. And then you go

(09:26):
into the real world and you gotto hold it back in because you're going
into corporate and you're going into anenvironment where that's not professional. But then,
you know, water cooler in alittle talk in the break room,
sometimes people are pissed off, youknow, and then they say stuff.
You realize quickly as you get olderthat it's actually not necessary and you look
so much more polished when you're notusing those words, whereas in the moment

(09:50):
it's actually a lot more impactful whenyou're not using those words and you use
it once maybe a year, Ohmy goodness, that person cursed. That's
huge, right then, that thatimpact lands. It gives power to the
word. It gives it the powerthat I guess deserves for that. You
know, if you're trying to makea statement and I do that, I'll
use a curse word when I'm like, you gotta f and do it right.

(10:13):
And I'm talking about motivationally not becauseI'm angry, right, we don't
ever do never. But but whatI want to say to that point of
like it becomes who you are,is that that's how you're able to get
in front of an audience and nothave that those jitters or those nerves because
it really is who you are.Now. You're not masking this fake identity.

(10:35):
You're not going up there with thisidentity of like, well I better
not curse. There's not that fearthat it's going to slip out because that's
who you've become. Correct, whichis so important in public speaking. Yes,
you you also don't want you're gonnayou know, your audience is going
to know you're not being authentic.Right, So if you are naturally the
type of person that's cursing every otherword and you're trying to hold yourself back,

(10:56):
that's an authentic Maybe you should becursing up there, I mean depending
on the venue, but but youhave to be if you want to really
engage with your audience, and that'sthe way you interact. Your audience is
a certain type of audience that isexpecting that, right, Yes, So
it depends and obviously brand is dependson your brand depends on your setting,
depends on whatever arena you're in.Obviously you're not going to be, you

(11:20):
know, at a wedding cursing whenyou're doing a toast. But but if
you're in an environment with your buddiesand you're giving you know, like a
talk about you know something that's Idon't know, Well, there are many
professional speakers who use cursing on aregular basis, and you know, like
I mean, Gary V curses alot, but it's their brand. That's
how they in those venues. Theyeverybody knows that that's what's gonna they're gonna

(11:43):
be doing. And then with whatyou were just saying too about being authentic
and then going on stage and notbeing authentic like and that's where those nerves
come in of when you see somebodythat you recognize in the audience, you're
like, oh crap, they actuallyknow that I'm not like this, and
that's where those So it's really likebeing authentic is so important to public speaking
because when you do see that personin the audience that you recognize, it's

(12:05):
like, yeah, this is mynormal self and they know me from speaking
to them one on one to beingright up here on stage, and one
thing I wanted to say was beingauthentic is not just about your words.
It's about your demeanor and your actionsand the body language you're giving, right,
because you're speaking all the time,even when you're not thinking that you're
speaking. And just simply the wayyou're holding yourself and your body. And

(12:28):
if you are a closed off person, you might be holding your hands,
holding your hands in and you know, cowering your body a little bit,
and that is a message to peoplearound you that you don't want to be
approached. Right. And this isone of the things that when people come
to me for advice, I tellthem that it's really important to pay attention,
Like stand in front of a mirrorand look at your regular, normal

(12:52):
way that you're standing without trying topost Just look at the way are you
slouching, Are you holding your shouldersback a little bit, bringing your chest
out just slightly to have good posture. All of those little small tips make
a difference in the way someone's perceivingyou and the whether or not they're willing
to come up to you. Soyou're holding yourself with just a little bit

(13:13):
of strong posture is enough for someoneto see a confident individual in front of
them, and they're going to say, Oh, I want to be like
this person, I want to talkto this person, I want to engage
with this person. Yes, yes, I mean And that comes out to
entrepreneurship and moving into the executive branchat a at a hospital. Yeah,
like you did yourself. We didn'teven get into any of that quite yet.

(13:35):
But just so our listeners know,because we've gotten so far down the
rabbit hole hall of public speaking,is that it does relate to your business
of Star Trek Investments, non investmentcompany dealing with finance. It is a
personal investment company, right. Itis investing in yourself and learning about who
you are and inspiring greatness within you. So that's why we're really talking so

(13:56):
much about public speaking. And Iwant to actually continue this conversation on public
speaking because another thing that I noticedin your background and in your bio that
you sent over to me is howwell traveled you are. And so many
people when they think about public speaking, or even when we're talking about entrepreneurship
or climbing the corporate ladder, theunderstanding of the world, the understanding of

(14:22):
different cultures is so important and playsuch a huge role, and so I
don't want to downplay the number ofcountries that you visited, because it is
in your bio all of the countriesthat you visited, which is just tremendous,
and lived abroad in different places aswell. So I would love for
you to maybe help share some ofthose experiences and how they've related to your

(14:45):
life and what you're doing today andthe work you're doing well. I,
first of all, I love traveling, and obviously the last couple of years
we've been a little jilted in that. But prior to that I was able
to I was very fortunate in fromthe very from a youthful point, from
two years old onwards, I wasalready traveling to India with my family right
that was my whole entire families fromKerala, India, and my parents brought

(15:11):
me there at the age of two, and every four or five years we
were already making international trips to visitour family and I would spend a month
or two months at a time overthe summer there, so I would get
a very different experience living in anemerging country like India. Over the nineteen
eighties nineteen nineties, during my youthand seeing that contrast to the truthfully,

(15:33):
the truly luxurious life we live herein the United States. A lot of
the problems that we think our problemshere are not problems over there, because
we've already bypassed that those first worldissues of needing food, water, clothing,
basic shelter. But when you're goinginto merging countries like India. I've

(15:56):
been to South Africa, I've beento Egypt, I've been to I've been
to so many different places. Butwhen you go to emerging countries, you
see they are really living for themoment. They're living for today. They're
thinking about what they're doing for theirown sustenance. They're not thinking about things
like where am I going to goin my career. They're thinking about livelihood,
how to feed their families. Andthat is a huge intrinsic shift in

(16:21):
the way people think over their versusover here when you have that particular lens
in front of you of seeing theworld from the standpoint of people who don't
have all of these lugagies I'm talkingabout, to the point where my family
in India, I remember in thenineteen eighties, only one family had a
toilet in the house. Everyone elseamong my family had their toilet was essentially

(16:47):
a hole in the ground, whichwas As a child, I was very
I was very reluctant to use thatbecause you had to squat on the ground.
Even some of my family had anouthouse, you had to go outside
of the house to take a showerin this area where it was a bathroom
area, and that was a veryforeign concept to me at the time,
that I would have to leave thehouse to go to the bathroom. And

(17:08):
they didn't see that over there asbeing poor or anything. That was just
the way of life for them.As modern conveniences started going from the Western
world outwards, toilet started becoming morestandard, and now all of my cousins
have it there. But I rememberspecifically not wanting to go to one of
my cousin's house because I was soblessed and used to having a toilet in

(17:29):
my house in the United States thatit was like, no, I don't
want to go there. I don'twant to do number two on the floor.
I just didn't want to do it. And I was a child.
I was very spoiled, obviously,because you know, I should have probably
just sucked it up and did it, and that's an experience, and I
did have to do that a fewtimes. But those kinds of things really
show you the difference and the waywe live day to day. And that

(17:49):
is one of the reasons why Ifeel like travel is one of the fastest
ways to get self growth, becausethe moment you get out of your comfort
zone in your day to day,whether it's your house, you're working from
home, or whether you're going toa company back and forth, that's your
world, right Getting out of yourworld and getting yourself into a different place

(18:14):
completely with different culture, different foods, different language, you expose yourself to
so much that you come back actuallya different person from that trip. Even
a two week trip or a oneweek trip could do that for you,
just immersing yourself and really not juststaying in the fancy hotels, really getting
into the areas of the country whereyou're with the locals and you're doing cultural

(18:37):
things that they do for generations.We're a really young country here in the
United States. It's a beautiful country. We have so much. We're essentially
a child in comparison to the othernations of the world, and having this
ability to experience cultural traditions from hundredsand hundreds and hundreds maybe thousands of years
back. That is really inspirational andchanges your life with one of your most

(19:03):
favorite favorite experiences that you experienced.So when we went to Turkey and Egypt,
we did a chronologically right. Wedid to Egypt first, and we
did we went to the Pyramids andeverything. And we had this opportunity after
we went because we were falling thewhole line of the Ottoman Empire. The
Ottoman Empire had all of the areasEgypt and Turkey in Istanbul, So we

(19:29):
made it a really educational trip forus and our kids. After we went
to Egypt, which is really ah, you know, it's a desert,
you go into Europe, which isIstanbul area and it's much more of westernized
there. But Sultana met In Istanbulhas some of the most authentic I mean

(19:49):
really like they have authentic moss andthe Ia Sophia's there, the Blue Mosque
is there. There was one particularexperience I was told that I need to
do, which was going to atur Kish hamm. Have you ever done
that? It's a Turkish bath.So the Ottoman emperors of that time,
all of the regal individuals of thatera. They would go to these Turkish

(20:12):
bath houses and there was a men'sand women's section and you get basically completely
scrubbed down by a couple of individualsat the top to bottom. And I
mean it was really an experience I'venever ever had to get, you know,
troub by someone else. It wastwo women, you know, for

(20:33):
ladies, they had women doing it. For men it was men, and
they did a full body massage andeverything. But I envisioned myself this is
probably how the empresses and the emperors, and you know, this is the
way they were treated at that time. We I mean, I know that
there's probably spaws like that here,but nobody was a king or queen over
here, right, So this isthe experience of being a king or a

(20:55):
queen at that time. And it'sthe same bath house that they use centuries
ago, and it's the same exactmarble and everything is the same. And
that was a really interesting experience justto see how cleansliness was not taken for
granted in that culture, how importantit was in that culture, how many
bath houses there were there. It'sjust a very interesting and that's so different

(21:18):
it's a cultural thing that's so differentthan here. We don't have a bathhouse
where we would all be going into, right. The closest thing I can
think of is a sauna wor allsit together. Yes, yeah, well
yeah, the saunas, the hottubs at the gyms, and and there
are there are there certainly are cleanones. I used to go to one
on a regular basis before COVID.Yeah, so I'd go to the sauna

(21:40):
and the hot tub and the coldplunge and it's a shared space and you
hope it's clean. But that wasthat was a teaching moment for me and
saying okay, cleansliness was a high, highly regarded piece of this culture.
So that's a very vivid memory Ihave. I did a lot of the
touristy things like writing on the camel. Yeah, you have a great picture

(22:00):
on your website about you on acamel, and I didn't realize how big
they are. They're huge. Thatis incredible. Yeah, they're huge.
They're enormous. They're beautiful, magnificentanimals, and it does feel surreal when
you're in by the pyramids. Iwas going to ask you about the pis
So it's first, first of all, it's breathtaking and you're there and you

(22:22):
see it, it looks like apicture, looks like a photograph. It's
just that beautiful that and it's somassive and it really is inspiring that people
centuries ago worked to build. Thisis just amazing. So I mean,
if you have one of those onesin the lifetime trips that you want to
do, absolutely I would say gothere. Yeah, And you know,

(22:42):
the last what five or eight minuteswe've been talking about this trip, and
so I think that that just kindof like goes back to are the start
of the conversation, which is likethese experiences or what lead to great stories
and public speaking, and this isan experience that you get to share with
others in a way that's actually entertaining. Like, Yeah, I can keep

(23:03):
asking you about the Pyramids and Egypt. What I what I do want to
learn more about is your family experienceas well. You mentioned traveling to India
as a young child, but yourparents have a very unique story as well.
And I feel like with what you'redoing today in helping inspire others and

(23:23):
helping others and actually it's not justa feeling that I have, but you
also mentioned about the work that yourfather did and how inspired you became from
it. I would love you toshare, for you to share with our
audience their their love story. OhI would I I would love to.
I mean, I'm inspired by everythingthat they've accomplished. So my father,
first of all, my father wasextremely poor in India. He was the

(23:47):
youngest of eight and he was oneof those very he was a good boy.
He was a mama's boy. Myuncle told me he was always by
his mom and he studied very hard. They were so poor that he's told
me he remembers going to sleep atnight and my mom too, going to
sleep at night hungary. I can'timagine what that's like, going to sleep
at night hungry. You know,that's something that is a very particular experience.

(24:10):
You don't forget that, right.So that was very a huge driver
for both of them in their livesin how they accomplish everything and how they
don't take things for granted. Somy father, he's Catholic. He was
sponsored by the church and there wasactually a wonderful woman in Kansas who sponsored

(24:32):
him. And a sponsor among thechurch would be someone who is sending money
from hearing from the United States tosponsor a child in another country in the
church. So my father got educationalsupport from her. He ended up going
into the priesthood. And simultaneously,my mother she did not want to get

(24:52):
an arranged marriage. She told meher only choices where either get in a
arranged marriage to somebody she doesn't know, or beca I'm a nun. Those
are only two options. And she'slike, I'm going to become a nun.
I'm not gonna Yeah, it is, it is, and so she
decided to become Now, at thattime, in the nineteen fifties and sixties,
the church really needed more priests thannuns in Europe. So when individuals

(25:18):
in India were saying, okay,I want to join the clergy, they
would actually move them to Switzerland orGermany or different parts of Europe. And
so that's how my parents ended upin Europe. The way they met each
other though it's so it's such afunny story. They were actually separate families,
but my mother's brought older brother marriedmy father's niece, so it's a

(25:42):
family connection already. And my grandmothertold my father when he was visiting as
a priest in India. You're goingback to Europe. My daughter's in Switzerland,
she's a nun there. I knowthat you're going to be going through.
Can you do me a favor andjust stop and just check in on
her. That was it. Sotechnically, my grandmother's the one who made
the initial connection by just telling themto meet. My father met my mom

(26:03):
and they became friends because they're bothclergy. They're part of the church,
so this is that's a unique experiencealready being clergy. So they became friends
and they just started writing letters.In that time, my father moved from
Europe to the United States. Hemoved to Bergenfield, New Jersey, at
a parish there. He was aparish priest there and during that time he
made a decision personally. He wantedto start a family. He decided that

(26:27):
this life as a priest, livingin culibate life, that wasn't for him.
He wanted to have kids and hewanted to move forward, and he
made that choice. And he alsohad one other personal reason. He told
me that he didn't want to preachabout something. So they had some conscientious
reasons for moving out of the priesthoods. So he left so he left and
then he moved in with a familyfriend and he's trying to get a job.

(26:48):
Meanwhile, my mom in Switzerland,she took advantage of all of the
educational offerings, just like my father. Because my father got his masters and
his PhD. My mother also wenton to study. She got the equivalency
of a bsn are in a degreein Switzerland. And this is all like

(27:12):
they all learned. Both of themspeak German fluently because they both lived in
Europe, so they're English is actuallytheir third language. Coming after that,
my mom actually was writing letters tomy father and let him know, oh
yeah, I'm leaving the clergy.And it's at that time that my father
started changing his letters from platonic lettersto love letters handwritten. By the way,

(27:37):
this is back in the nineteen seventies, before we had internet, before
we had emails. This is whensnail mail was normal, pen pals were
normal. So my father's letters transferand change from platonic to really trying to
woo my mom. And he asked, my mom, will you marry me?
She said no. Then he triedagain and she said no again.

(28:00):
I mean, and each time shewrote the letter, it was like trying
to a little bit more like doinga little more romance in the letters.
I can't sadly, I can't evenread the letters because it's all written in
Molialam, a different language, theirhome mother tongue, so I can't even
really read it and understand someone wouldhave to read it to me. But
my mom told me the final timehe asked, he said to her in

(28:21):
the letter one phrase, if youmarry me, I'm going to hold you
in the palm of my hand forever. And that was really kind of it.
I mean, I'm sure in Englishis not really as eloquent as well.
And my mom was like at thatpoint, she was like okay,
And I asked him, like,why did you say no to him?
And she's like, Angel, youknow, when you're thinking about who you

(28:42):
want to marry, you're thinking aboutsomeone handsome. When I saw him last
year, had this really big belly, and I wasn't really so she was
just thinking about who he was atthat time, and he convinced her,
you know, I'm going to takecare of you, so she said okay.
So then she came to the UnitedStates and they got married and it
was really I mean, we didn'thave any family here in the United States.

(29:04):
So a really big part of myyouth was all of the other Indian
family immigrants that came at the sametime in the nineteen centuries and we're also
starting families. Those people are whoI call my family now because all of
our holidays, everything, we spendtime together. So the you know,
the girls at Sythian Cema who Igrew up with. She know, like

(29:26):
all these people I grew up with, their parents were my parents best friends.
They would come over. I playwith those girls. I play with
all these people, and then theykind of became like like you could call
them my cousins almost because I didn'thave my real cousins here. They're all
in other countries abroad, right,So we had a very close relationship with
my parents. My father is veryvery charismatic, very loving person and as

(29:48):
a priest, he was counseling marriages, he was counseling individuals, and that
relationship never ended. And you knowhe even though he left the priests that
he did also just like you,he was an insurance agent. You know,
he was a New York life insuranceagent. He was very successful.
He was able to get people towant to buy from him because they liked

(30:11):
him, genuinely, really liked himas a person, because he was the
type of person that if you calledhim on the phone and you had a
problem, he is not putting thephone down until the problem was resolved.
So we used to actually joke backthen, Daddy's married to the telephone because
he would be on the phone allthe time. And my mom, she
just knew that this is how hewas in the community, right He's the

(30:32):
one everyone goes to for problem solvingissues. And I recall there was one
time where a really close family friendof mine, like my parents, they
were in an The wife and thehusband were an abusive relationship, and I
remember my father he had intervened amultiple times to try and help them,
and then finally remember going over totheir house. I think we were like,
it was such a bad fight.We went over to their house.

(30:56):
The wife was crying and the husbandthey both respect my father so much.
They both listen to him. Butmy father, I remember telling the wife,
you need to go, you needto leave, and he No one
can hate my father for what hesays because he's that deeply respected because he's
such a kind caring, and he'san active listener. He listens to people.

(31:17):
So I've seen such a good exampleof a good human being with my
father and my mother too. She'sher whole site changes, like everything about
her change is when my father gotsick, and that's like a whole other
side happened later. I want toask you about that. Yeah, we're
gonna talk a little bit about that. But I think it's also his intentions.
Yes, you know, when wewhen we think about you know,
we were talking about public speaking beforewe speak about business entrepreneurship, and it's

(31:42):
what is your intention and people seethrough that. You know, you bring
up insurance in New York Life,so he's selling life insurance, and there's
a there's a stigma in any typeof sales. You know, you have
the car, the car dealer andeverything, but life insurance has a stigma
as well. People are like,well, I don't need any more insurance.
But when you when you speak tosomebody who sells life insurance, whose

(32:06):
intentions are to look out for yourfamilies, benefit, for their future,
for what you may leave behind.When you speak with somebody with those kind
of intentions, they no longer arejust another life salesperson. They are somebody
who you understand and relate to.And so that's really the image that you're
portraying about your dad is his intentionswere always sincere. And I think we

(32:29):
also get that from the letters thathe wrote to your mother about his intentions
and what he's done. And youknow, the other thing I picked up
from this story about your parents lovestory here is there is also an entrepreneurial
spirit there. I always try tofind it. I always try to dig
for it in that you know,in the clergy, and some might not

(32:50):
know this, it is a paidposition. It's it's a faith driven position
of believing in a higher higher being, but there's also a paid position.
You're part of the community, you'reirving the community, and you receive a
salary and payment. And for yourfather to make a decision to end that
relationship, to quit his job,essentially, yeah, to then figure it

(33:14):
out, you said, you said, to then figure it out, figure
out where you live, figure outwhere you work, figure out who you're
going to have as a resource.And we were so lucky. We call
them, you know, our family, uncle Joan Antia Maul. They took
my father in, gave him foodto eat, gave him a place of
stay, give him clothes like literallynothing, and help and the community helped

(33:35):
him really survive at that point.I mean, even when my mom came.
It wasn't a big lavish wedding,okay. It was the Justice of
the peace in New York City withlike two other couples who are their closest
best friends who I call auntie unclenow, And they all started together like
just like any immigrant family that cameat that time, like they were just

(33:57):
they had nothing right except each other. And we want to give a shout
out to Queen's Right because I'm fromQueens and you're from Queens, and I
always love it when I get aQueen's Native in the house with me.
It's always nice being able to talkabout our old neighborhoods over there. Definitely,
it's pretty cool. But yeah,so he had this entrepreneurial spirit and
there's so much more there before weget into a little bit more about your
dad and what happened and then whatled to other great things in your life

(34:21):
as well. Part of this,because there's always a silver lining to things.
I do have a cultural question foryou, and forgive my ignorance,
please. But my wife and Iwere hooked on the Netflix series Never Have
I Ever, which is, oh, yes, I've seen that pretty much,
a teen show about an Indian family. Yeah, and one of the
jokes is everybody's the auntie. Everybody'san auntie. Yes, And I kind

(34:44):
of get it because on my Haitianside, everybody's a cousin. We all,
we all. I called people outof respect, cousin and and all
that and uncle and all that stuffout of respect. But the way that
you just described it was a littlebit different than the way that I see
it. So like on my side, like I said, on my Haitian
side, there's so many relatives I'llcall at an uncle or cousin or whatever,
and again it's because it's more ofa respect thing between us, right,

(35:07):
And they'll be offended if I saythat that if I don't call them
my cousin or something, because it'slike WHOA. I thought we were close,
right, yeah, yes, Butthe way you described it made it
made me feel and I'm leading youhere a little bit that it's because of
what you have here and so theybecame your family, and so I'm just
interested, is that what it is. I think it's both right. We
definitely have that same thing culturally,where for respect, anyone who's older than

(35:32):
you you may call them either youcould either say che che or checked in
for like big brother, sister.But for someone who's much older in my
case, like as a child goinglooking up to someone who's you know,
an adult, they're aunto your uncleto me, because there it's like saying
a family thing like you're saying.But in my case, the difference is
I didn't have any real relatives inthis country, so when I call them

(35:57):
auntie an uncle, it really feelsmore real to me because those individuals really
played that role from me. That'swhat That's kind of what I was picking
up from that, So that's whatI was interested in. So but in
the show then just to kind oflike go back to this like bigger overall,
it really is more of a respectthing than when you when you hear
people say auntie uncle and they don'thave that same feeling for that person that

(36:17):
you have a deep disrespect to callthem by their first name. Yes,
you never want to. And wesee that like I mean I get called
mister esposito by my my daughter's friendsand I'm like, well, you can
call me Michael, and they likemister Esposito, and I'm like, yeah,
all right, I guess that's justI think it's kind of weird.
I guess because I grew up withthis family structure in place where I always

(36:38):
called elderly people or older than meaunt your uncle that if someone is,
it's kind of weird because I'm inthis. I'm in my early forties now,
so I don't feel like I'm middleaged. But yeah, yeah,
but our kids make us feel it. The kids call me aunt, you
know, and I'm like, waita second, but yes, that makes

(36:59):
sense. I am at that agenow where it makes sense to be called
out. Yeah, that's funny.So going so still, like in your
childhood here, So there's a coupleof things that happened in your childhood that
I want to highlight here, andthat you were a public speaker very early
on. You were a youthful publicspeaker, and you were doing that already,
yes, and then things took ashift, which you'll share a little

(37:22):
bit about. But just take usback to this, like where and why
and how? Okay, So goingback in time, like I was talking
about the community right the immigrant community. The Kerala Associations in New York were
one of the first that started whereMaliali's like the part of India I'm from
is Kerala and the people are calledMoliali people and the language is Malalam.

(37:45):
And the Maliali people who are immigrantsformed associations. Waschester Molali Association or you
know New Jersey like little association wherewe can gather, we can do our
cultural celebrations together. We may letChristmas, we may celebrate or different holidays
that are particular to our the homecountry. And this was an opportunity also

(38:07):
for the youth to take part indifferent competitions. And they had singing competition
and public speaking competition, and moststarted at like five or six years old
to take part. But Uncle Tom, who was one of my close uncles
who I was growing up, hewas the president of the Westchestermonial the association.

(38:28):
And I saw the kids going upand singing songs, and I wanted
to sing so badly. I wasthree years old and I wasn't actually even
part of the entire thing. AndI went up to him and I pulled
on his pants, like Uncle Tom, Uncle Tom, can I please can
I go on stage and sing?And that was the start. He's like,
sure, he gave me the microphone. I'm three years old. I
went up there and I sang somesong and my parents were so proud.

(38:51):
But they saw that I was notafraid of an audience. I was not
afraid to be in fun of people. That was a fear that most people
had. That just didn't. Ididn't. It didn't exist in my world
at three. They saw that,so my father they kept putting me in
singing competitions at first, but thenthey started realizing that I had a really
good memory at that as a child, I was almost photographics. So my

(39:14):
father started training me in doing Maloyalamspeeches, speeches in the Malali Maloyalam language
to the Malali people, and thatchanged the game for me, right.
I went from because I wasn't reallya great singer. I was okay,
I was kids singing, right,but the speeches was really a where having
that vocal variety, having that abilityto have stage presence. That stuff my

(39:37):
father, because remember he was aspeaker as a priest, he had to
do it every week. So hewas teaching me as a child how to
own the stage and He was theone who saw that I had something in
me to share, and he wouldgive these He would be the one writing
the speeches at that time for me, and it was about love, sharing,

(39:57):
being in a loving person, howto give back. It was literally
inspirational speeches by my father that Iwould be presenting to all of the people
in the community. And that ledin led me to start going competing in
the competitions across the country. Sothen I'd start traveling because I would start
winning the competitions, so I'd winthe local level, the county level,

(40:21):
then I'd do the region area one. Then I would then I went to
the national conferences we were having andI would travel to Philadelphia, to Rochester,
to Toronto, to Orlando. Iwas traveling all over. I even
I found out for my parents justrecently, I was even on the radio
giving one of those speeches. Iwas like, I didn't even always on
the radio back then, and theyjust told me that recent because I told

(40:42):
him I'm coming on your show,like, oh yeah, you were on
the radio before. That's wild.Yeah. So it was, I mean,
that was my father really putting thatfinding that spark in me and really
nurturing and growing it, and thenof course you know later on, I
just you know your team, youdon't want to do what you're doing in
a little and then you kind oflet it go. But it never left

(41:05):
really because it was always there.My father just built on something that he
saw was like a seed growing,and then he flowered that and he trained
it. And then now I feellike I don't have that fear because I
have all these years from my youthunder my belt. Right, Yeah,
and then and now you're helping otherentrepreneurs and people who are trying to move
up in the ladder with this experience. So I have to bring it back

(41:28):
to Toastmasters. Did you enter thespeech competition for Toastmasters? Yes? I
did, And will you be advancing? Yes, I will. Fantastic congratulations.
I'm so excited to hear that speech. So you know, you're you're
on this journey as a young child, You're doing the public speaking gigs,
your dad's writing your speeches, hugeinspiration in your life, and then he
has a brain aneurysm. Yeah,and you mentioned it in the bio that

(41:52):
you know your family now is devastatedfinancially. And yes, there was so
many other things that were occurring therelittle that with us. That was really
the first of all. The wayit even happened was crazy because we were
we were planning a trip to seemy aunt who lives in Austria in Vienna,
Austria, and I recall this wasa very exciting thing for us.

(42:15):
We have never visited her there before. And my father told us right before
we were leaving, I'm going tobe going to visit my friends in Germany.
So the thing is, my fatheris so popular because he's such a
good person, and he's so funny. He loves telling jokes. He makes
everybody laugh. You know that everyonewants to have a piece of him wherever

(42:35):
we go. Right, So helived in Germany for many years, so
he had really close friends there.So he's like, I Germany's the next
country over. I'm just gonna goover there. And I remember telling my
dad, I'm like, are youreally going to leave me and mom and
my brother, you know, atAuntie's house. You know, you shouldn't
do that, you shouldn't separate fromus. I was like six or seven
or eight or something. I waslike, you shouldn't do that. And
then he's like, no, it'sgonna be fine. It's gonna be fine.

(42:57):
I'm like, you should be withus, you know. I remember
telling him that, and then wewent on the trip. My father goes
to Germany. He's supposed to gofor a couple of days. He's telling
a joke at the dinner table,and while he's telling the joke, he
collapses and they actually at first thoughtit was part of the joke, but
then they were like, wait asecond, he really collapsed, and then
they took him to the hospital andthey didn't know what was wrong with him.

(43:17):
Meanwhile, I was with my parent, my mom, in my aunt's
house, and they decided not totell me and my brother. We were
young. I was This was nineteeneighty eighty nine, so I was eight
years old. My brother was six. So they didn't want to scare the
kids, which obviously is not reallysmart because the kids usually know what's going
on too, And so they keptit hidden from us for a little while,

(43:38):
and my mom was always crying.They just said, daddy has a
headache. I don't know why thatthat's what they told us, And then
my mom left and then finally theytook us to Germany to see my father
and that's when I saw him forthe first time and I realized how serious
what was going on was. Halfof his head was half of his head
was shaved because they had to dosurgery to repair their brainingrysm rupture. And

(44:00):
it was really a very traumatic timethat time. There was no online banking,
there was no way to access ourmoney in the bank, so in
order to discharge from the hospital,and my mom had to contact individuals in
the United States, like, listen, we have the money in our bank,
we just can't access it. Wejust need to borrow money. Can
you wire money here? Because weneed to buy tickets, we need to

(44:21):
pay the hospital, all this stuff. And thankfully, because my father is
such a huge figure in the communityand so beloved people that she didn't even
reach out to, started sending moneyto us and really carried us, like
brought us back, we were ableto come back to the United States.
My father still like he was deemeddisabled. He was not allowed to work

(44:45):
anymore. My mom had to becomethe main breadwinner and the caretaker for my
father, and it was a veryit was a huge transitional shift for us
in the family. We went frombeing everything's fine, we just bought this
house. You know, we havetwo incomes. Every you know, we're
fine financially. Everything's good to myfather, which was the bulk of the

(45:05):
income being completely gone and my mombeing the only income. And suddenly things
that were possible were no longer possible. Right, Even extracurricular activities after school
became an expense. Right, Oh, I don't know if you should be
joining, you know, baseball,because that baseball or a bast softball might
be too expensive for us to buythose. That's how the shift happened for
us, and that really impacted theway I grew up, the way my

(45:30):
brother grew up, because we reallywent from just like getting groceries was like
even that was something that was reallya struggle for us during those years until
we were able to come out ofit. But I think that that my
father threw out never changed. Soeven though he had a brain in yours
and rupture, and even though hewas deemed disabled, he's a little slower,

(45:52):
but his personalities exactly that he stilllikes to joke, he tells a
joke, a little slower, buthe he's still the same happy person and
he's a very faith based person.So he still praise and he's still very
spiritual and very very aligned with thechurch. And my mother this is where

(46:13):
she really shined. After my fathergot sick, she really stepped up.
She really showcased how to be aleader in our family when everything was falling
apart around her. I mean itwas to the point where she told me
I didn't even know how to paybills when we came back from that vacation
because your father took care of everything, and then I had to figure it

(46:34):
all out myself. And that's ahuge change. And then at the same
time, while that was happening,I saw my mom decide. So she
did study enough to get what youwould consider a bachelor's in Europe, but
here didn't translate. For whatever reason, that degree didn't translate here. So
she's like, I want to getmy BSN. So she went back to
Mercy College, so while she wasworking full time, she was also getting

(46:57):
her BSN degree to become a registerednurse with the bachelor's And I saw that
even while being a caretaker and evenwhile working to get by, she still
took advantage of this opportunity to gether degree, and that really showed me
how important education is the value ofthat. Yeah, and you guys ended
up graduating together. Yes, Igraduated high school and then she graduated with

(47:21):
her bachelors the same year. Andthat was I mean, I'm sitting down
studying for my SATs and she's sittingdown doing her school work right her college
courses. And that was a hugeimpact on the way I saw myself for
the future. I'm like, mymom can do all of this and go
to college. There's no excuse forme. Right, It's incredible. The

(47:42):
I mean, just the the examplesthat you had around you of and what
it led you to do, whichwe're going to talk about your corporate experience
now, but just these great examplesof like your father having this this mindset
of just happiness really is what I'mfeeling, right, like this passionate,
happy person where nothing's going to changethat, right, and it's not going

(48:07):
to pierce through his identity. Thisbrain tumor you know what she probably jokes
about, and your mother's strong willedpersonality to be like, we're going to
figure this out and get her bsin, like you said, Yes,
she even told me, and thiswas her advice. She said, listen,
you saw what happened in our family. You saw how you know,

(48:28):
everything seems stable, but I wantyou, even as a woman, you
need to get your education. Youneed to make sure that you have yourself
set and you don't rely on anybodyelse. Great if you have a spouse
who can support you, but don'tlean on that so much, because what
if something like this happens. Youneed to be able to stand on your

(48:49):
own two feet. And I reallyappreciated that she said that, because the
truth is, we don't know whena health crisis or some other crisis might
happen. Where if you have allyour cards in one place and then like
those cards fall, how do youhold yourself together? Right? So's she
really valued education. And my grandmotherand my mother's mother also the poorest,

(49:10):
like everyone was poor, but theypushed education on my father's family and my
mother's family and that's why all oftheir siblings are educated and living well now.
And it's something that you never lose. And I'm going to bring it
back to public speaking because that's whatyou do, and it's what you know.
It's it's what you do to inspireothers and share with others. But

(49:30):
it's a foundation. Yeah, Andwhen you create a strong foundation, you
can then not just plan for failures, but then in those moments of challenge,
you can actually figure out how tochange course and how to redirect.
And so, to bring it backto public speaking, so many speakers and
presenters are worried about their PowerPoint failingor technology failing, or the microphone not

(49:53):
working, or even a rowdy audienceor interruptions in the audience or whatever,
and how do you deal with that? I know that that's a question that
comes up of like how do youdeal with that? And I'll give my
answer, and then I'd love foryou to expand on it in that when
you have a foundation of really strongpublic speaking skills and you've put in the

(50:14):
time and effort of practice, whenyou get up there and those interruptions happen,
you're able to figure out what adjustmentsto make in the moment. You've
seen it before, so you knowhow to react to it. And so
I'm also interested in your kind offeedback on that. Yeah, I mean,
I think it depends on the typeof distraction. But if you're let's
say you have someone huckling you,you could either not give attention to that

(50:37):
person and just continue forward, oryou can call out what they're saying,
but that would be really going offthe cuff at that point, right,
So you have to think about whatsetting you're in and if you're in a
setting where you can do that,or if you're doing like a prepared speech,
you just move forward. So ifthere's a technical difficulty, let's just
say you have a power point andeverything's on the power point. You should
also have a backup for yourself thatyou should be able to give a speech

(51:00):
without the PowerPoint. Right, youshould be okay with people just looking at
you because you're simply the conduit ofinformation. You're the messenger, right,
So I think it's no. Ithink it's really interesting that my parents name
me Angel because I mean, obviouslyit's a very religious name. But the
name Angel just simply means messenger,right, messenger of God. But just

(51:23):
I'm a messenger, and that's whata public speaker does. They give a
message. You want to walk intoa room, send your message out,
and make sure that message is received. So if something happens in the moment,
whether it's technical, whether someone elseyou know is saying, okay,
you only have five minutes, notten minutes that could happen, right,

(51:44):
you have to be able to figureout, Okay, how am I going
to maneuver this so that the messageis what gets through. You want people
to leave feeling different than they camein. What did you contribute to them
that they walk away that there's somethingmore to life. That's the goal,
because we're all kind of in thishaze where we're going through life, we're
working, where we have all theseresponsibilities, there's so much stress and taking

(52:08):
that pause, taking that moment,getting their attention, I mean, getting
the tension is probably the hardest part. If you're able to capture their attention
in that moment, it doesn't matterif the power point's not working, it
doesn't matter if you only have fiveminutes. Getting that message out is the
most important thing. I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us.

(52:28):
So you go on in your lifeand you enter the corporate world and
you start climbing the corporate ladder,and I'm interested in your success there because
you also mentioned too obviously, andI think it's very well known a male
dominated area in terms of the corporateladder, but not just that, but

(52:50):
getting into the c suite. Yes, and we're talking about the C suite
in healthcare and in a prestigious hospitalin New York City. Yes, and
you were able to ride in theranks, So I'm interested in that story
there. So one of the mostimportant things of moving up quickly is realizing
that your work product alone is notenough. You could be getting all your

(53:15):
reports in on time, you couldbe going above and beyond, you could
be, you know, doing everythingto support your staff. But if nobody
knows this is happening, how arethey going to elevate you up? And
what I recognized very quickly when iso healthcare was not my first move.
That was a couple of moves inright. And when I graduated from college,

(53:38):
because of my experience of having somuch money issues, my first thing
that I wanted was a lot ofmoney. I was like, oh,
I'm going into finance. I wanta lot of money. I'm graduating with
economics. This should get me writedown the path of investment banking or some
kind of private equity thing. Yeah, I just wanted to make tons and
tons of cash, you know.I wanted money, you know, like

(53:58):
you see those like memes of likeholding like dollar bills and stuff that's what
I wanted at that time. Andthen I get into the roles and I
start realizing that you can't really justgo for money because you're not fulfilled.
Money is just it's just a it'sa currency, it's a conduit for getting
something else. It's not really what'sgoing to fulfill your soul. So when

(54:20):
I was in finance, I didn'tI realized that wasn't really aligning with me.
It also didn't unlign with my lifebecause being in that financial position meant
I needed to be there a lotlonger than I wanted to give with having
young children, so I wanted tohave a real work life balance. So
I had to try a couple oftimes. And that's the whole reason why
I started the Career Path Angel podcast, because I did have to jump from

(54:44):
different industrates over and over. Iwent from government to legal to you know,
finance too. I did my ownchocolate tear business than I did real
estate. I did so many thingsto get to the point before I got
into healthcare where all of it aligned. And what I'm talking about alignment is
I'm talking about first is for me, and you have to know what your

(55:07):
personal values are, your values haveto be clear to you. But I
can't tell you what that is untilyou start working and figuring it out.
You will actually start eliminating what's notimportant to you as you start working in
different roles. But I knew bythe time I was moving into healthcare.
Before even I stepped foot into therole of healthcare, I knew that it
was important to have work life balance. Where they care the company or wherever

(55:28):
I'm working cares about me as aperson and my personal life. So that
means if something happens at home,there's an emergency at home, I shouldn't
have an issue. Should not bea misalignment with the company that I need
to go home and take care ofmy kid. It should be there should
be an alignment there. Healthcare fitthat. That was number one. Number
two, I needed to have afeeling that what I was doing whether or

(55:52):
not I was a clinical person andI was not actually giving you a clinical
advice or tips or prescriptions. I'mnot an actual clinical person. I'm not
that person at all. But I'mdoing something along the lines to help someone
heal, Right, So I'm movingsomeone from a place of being broken to
healing. And that was my motivation, motivating factor in that field that I

(56:14):
felt really propelled me because no matterwhat problems I came across in the office,
I know, whatever my action isis to help a patient at the
end of the day. So thatwas a very important other factor for me.
And then the final factor is obviouslythe monetary factor. You need to
be able to make enough to beable to get by, otherwise you're always

(56:35):
going to be failing in that.So those three things were very important to
me. Work life balance, andgetting getting fulfillment, real fulfillment. And
I think the fulfillment part is thepart that a lot of people think when
they're graduating from high school or collegeand they're starting their careers that they're going
to get fulfillment in one or thisparticular path, and then they realize they

(56:57):
are not getting it. That's whythere's they say there's up to five career
changes in a person's life. That'sthe reason why, because you're not finding
the fulfillment in the very beginning.Yeah, And I wrote that down.
I wrote down fulfillment purpose is reallywhat it is. So you have fulfillment
and then monetary Yeah, and thenyou got to find the monetary Yeah,
so you are now doing all ofthis work. So now you've found your

(57:20):
way to healthcare and you're doing allthis work in the corporate world where you
are handing everything in on time anddoing everything. How did you get yourself
noticed? Okay, so first,obviously, the moment you walk in the
door, you are being judged fromyour exterior. So you have to be
even if you're walking in into anentry level position and there's no chance that

(57:42):
that position might even remotely get youinto a management role down the road.
You need to walk in like you'rethe boss. You need to walk and
dress like the boss. You needto walk in with this image. Okay,
I literally walked in with a blazerand a full suit on for a
role that most people are walking inwith just a slack and a blouse.
Why Why did I walk in likethat? Because I knew that this position
is not where I'm staying. IfI walked in dressed for the position I'm

(58:07):
going in for, then I'm notgoing to be looked at as someone that
could move into another position. Sofrom the get go, I gave this
vision and this is part of executivepresence, right, I'm coming in with
a very specific persona, and mypersona and my image is going to be

(58:27):
translating in my professional reputation. Andpart of that. Part of that is
the way you look. So I'mpresenting in a way that's professional and presenting
in a way where I do alreadylook like I belong in the C suite
or in some high type of managementposition. So that's number one. Number
two is your work product, andyour reputation with your work product has to
be impeccable. Meaning if I'm ifI'm working with you, Michael, and

(58:53):
then I hear, Okay, Michael'sgoing to be working on this project,
and I've heard about you before.You want the things that you've heard about
you to be great, like,oh my gosh, great Michael is the
one working on this project. Thankgod. I know this project is going
to get done. I know thisis going to be great. That's what
you're trying to actually hone when youwalk in the door, you want to

(59:14):
build that reputation so that when yourname is brought up in another room somewhere
else where you are not there,there someone else is saying, yes,
I want that person. I knowthis is going to get be done properly
or right. So that's the secondpiece. Those two pieces most people can
get very easily. But the thirdpiece is the part that really helped me,

(59:35):
and I think that will help otherpeople is opening your mouth and saying
what you want. So this isa really crazy story. I was working.
I realized that in order to moveup, most people needed their masters.
I was very fortunate to have aI would say, somebody who you

(01:00:00):
could say like a corporate sponsor reallyin HR who saw something in me and
who helped me in getting my master'sin business administration covered through the company.
And by building that bridge with thisperson, I started and this person was
in a more of a leadership positionthan me at that time. And I

(01:00:20):
told that person I started with them, and I said, this is my
goal and this is where I wantto go. And that person told me
because they also recognize already, likethose first two pieces already there right,
the way I look, the wayI'm dressing for the roles, and then
my work product and my professional reputation, my executive presence, all of that
is bundled. It's already in aneat package. Now the next step is
moving into that leadership role. Istarted by talking to people. I started

(01:00:45):
telling people. So the person whohelped me get my sponsorship for my master's
in business administration through the company,she started telling me about different movers and
shakers in the company. Okay,you want to move up, You're gonna
want to start talking to these people. Okay, that's number one. Who
knows who? Who knows who's who'sthe decision makers? Right, you have

(01:01:07):
to know those people. And howdo you know those people? You have
to start opening up, you starttalking to them. Then I told her
I'm going to One of them wasthe CFO of the company, and he
was a very intimidating person. Andshe told me, yeah, I think
it's a good idea for you togo ahead and make an appointment with him.
Because I asked, like, whatdo you think She's like, yeah,
go ahead and do that. SoI went in and I had a

(01:01:30):
meeting with him, and I'm gonnabe honest, I didn't like him at
all because he was exactly what yousee in the movies, like the pompous
you know, he leans back inhis chair, put his hands behind his
back, put his feet up onhis desk. It's just like literally like
a movie the movie Bosses that arebig time, and you know, he
was definitely exuding a lot of masculineenergy at me. And I was just

(01:01:52):
sitting there and I'm saying, hey, you know, I want to move
up blah blah blah. And thenhe's like, well, get your masters
and come back. That's what hesaid to me. And I was kind
of pissed at that moment because Iwas like, wait a second, I
want it now, I don't wantit later, you know. And in
that moment, he was kind oftough with me, and I got kind

(01:02:13):
of pissed. And then I wentback and I grumbled about it, but
then I was like, you knowwhat, whatever I am doing my masters,
I am going to get my mastersand I'm gonna do the best job.
Again, he was used to like, do the best you can and
your masters, and I'll help you. You get your masters when you come
back. And so you know whatI did. I dug really deep into
my studies. I graduated with distinction. I was really excited after I graduated

(01:02:36):
because I'm like, this is it. I went back. It was like
a year and a half later andI went back to him. I had
another meeting with him, and Iwas like I'm here. I'm here.
He said, you're gonna help me, And that's probably a little obnoxious the
way I walked in, But Iwalked in with a little bit of a
chip on my shoulder because you know, this is the energy he was giving
me when I walked in both lasttime. And he's like, okay,

(01:02:58):
great, sure, no problem.Was like what I wasn't really expecting him
to do it. And what Icame to find out later was he sent
an email to every director in theentire company and he said, she's amazing.
If you have an opening in yourarea in management, get her under
your wing fast. I didn't knowthis. He didn't include me. I

(01:03:21):
found out this through somebody else.So again, like what I was saying
earlier, the way you present,the way you articulate yourself, the way
you are viewed by others, thatis so important and you have to defend
that. So if you're in asituation in your career where someone is trying
to steal your work or trying toblame you for something, don't sit back.

(01:03:45):
You have to open your mouth andsay no, I'm sorry that you
check it in the moment. Youdon't have to be antagonistic. You don't
have to be, you know,confrontational, but you check it in the
moment because you're showing that you're confidentin visual and you're not going to let
someone walk all over you. Andyou do that when you're in a leadership
role. Yeah, And you alsoshowed that grit to him of like all
right, I'm gonna you told meto do that, I'm gonna do it.

(01:04:08):
And coming back in. There wassome growth that I felt there too,
from you, from like yeah,just like seeing you in studio here,
which our audience can't see, butI'm sure I can feel of when
you mentioned going in there and you'rethis like humble little I'm gonna come in,
Hi, what can I do?And then like all right, give
me the job? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, So
some personal growth happened in that timetoo, right, Yes. I think

(01:04:31):
the one thing he said to mein that moment was like, when you
came in the first time, youwere really He didn't say like specifically what
I was, but he said youwere not. You were not. You
would not have been able to seehow you said it. You would not
have been able to handle an entirefloor full of nurses screaming in your face.

(01:04:53):
You wouldn't have been able to handleit, right, And he's like,
but you walked in here today andyou were like like a stone,
like nothing could happen you and something. And I can't say that it was
because of my masters that happened.I think I worked hard for my masters,
but I think there was a confidencegrowth that happened from the point that
I walked in and said I wantto do this and him saying okay,

(01:05:14):
well go get your masters, whichkind of pissed me off, but that
lit a fire inside me, right, and I said, well, yeah,
I'm gonna do it, and you'regonna watch me do it. And
having a little bit of you couldsay like it's like a self competition.
I don't like competing with other people, but I like competing with myself.
And that's the way you should alwayscompete. Who you were yesterday, you

(01:05:36):
have to be better today, right. Yeah, that that that little fire
that you had, I think islike you just said, it's your your
master's was what you needed, youknow, it's it's it's the paper that
they needed on their file to beable to look at you. But that
life lesson that personal growth that youhad there of that fire, that that

(01:05:58):
desire is what you need when youdo have a floor full of nurses screaming
at you yes. And I thinkabout that with our our business leaders,
our entrepreneurs, is that it's thatit's that life experience that we need.
We talk about studying and you werejust you were talking about education in your
family, but it also has todo with life experience and reading books and

(01:06:20):
meeting with other individuals and speaking withthem and learning from them and then being
put in the fire and dealing withit. And it's about having that inner
confidence that you walked in with thesecond time that helps you deal with it
because it's not about screaming back.It's not about walking in with fake confidence
where you're where you're acting a certainway. It's about having that inner confidence

(01:06:42):
to where you could stand on yourown and listen to those screaming nurses and
be able to work with them welltaking a personal without taking a press because
you've seen leaders out there who youknow that they're not handling themselves in a
leadership manner when they're taking something that'shappening. That really is about problem solving
and making it a personal ego thingabout themselves. I always know I'm going

(01:07:05):
down the wrong path when I whenI start thinking that it's it's I'm getting
my feelings hurt, right whenever,whether it's an argument with my daughters,
my wife, employees, partners,teammates, whatever it is that I'm doing.
Whenever, the feeling that I getis the victim feeling, the oh

(01:07:28):
they're hurting me, or don't theyknow how I feel, which, by
the way, I say very regularlyso we're not immune to it just because
we recognize it. But whenever Ihave that feeling, I know that it's
me. I'm I'm taking something personal. And all of these people around us,
none of them, like unless youhave like a really mean person who's

(01:07:48):
who's around you, which you shouldget rid of. Yea. None of
them care or are trying to hurtme, right, None of their intentions
are to hurt me. It's happeningbecause they dealing with their own crap exactly.
Oh my gosh, you just saidthe one thing that my father would
tell me all the time. Youdon't know what's happening in their life.

(01:08:09):
That's it. That's the same thingI say when you know you're driving in
the carntone cuts you off. I'mlike, it might be a little lady
and she might be trying to getto the hospital or something. I'm just
gonna not be mad about this.Oh my goodness. I try to say
that to myself too all the timewhen I'm like behind somebody, Like I
don't slow drivers drive me nuts.So when I'm behind a slow driver,

(01:08:30):
my wife tells me, think ofme, because I'm a slow driver.
Just imagine it's me. And Ididn't understand that. So just to like
really give you a little bit moreinsight on this, and they understand that
because yeah, I love her,and so I could think it's her,
and I'm like, okay, Ithink it's Devin and I love her,
but I'm still like, no,this is annoying. But what I realized
when actually she would drive, Ivery rarely do I can I sit passenger

(01:08:53):
because I get whatever. But whatI realize is that she actually has anxiety
when she drives, Like she's nervousabout the other cars around her or getting
to an accident, or she hasall these fears that have happened, which
is a whole other story, right, But the point is is that part
of why she drives slow or doescertain actions when she drives is because of
these nerves, and somebody who's flyingpast her or cutting in front of her

(01:09:16):
or whatever heightens those nerves and makesit worse for her. Yes, and
so it's actually affecting her negatively,right. And so what has actually helped
me is realizing not just that itcould be another devon in the car,
but that I'm actually affecting somebody negativelyright by tailgating or by beeping, or
by cutting off or any of thosethings, right, I'm actually affecting their

(01:09:40):
life. And it's also and alsoall of that is impulsive in the moment.
That's like not a normal thing thatyou're going to be driving and just
be tailgating someone right, Right,it's all impulse reactions. So pulling back
like peeling that onion back on.Why are you just so reactive? Why
aren't we just taking that moment toreally think about what we're doing and why

(01:10:00):
we're doing it and really asking ourselveswhy am I feeling this way? Okay,
just giving yourself that moment, right, Usually when you're in the moment
driving or whatever it is that you'redoing, and someone does something, you
feel that reaction. It's like it'sa self control, it's a discipline,
right, And that's why my dadalways say, you have to think about
what the other person might be goingthrough because they're in a totally different headspace

(01:10:26):
than you. You don't know whatnews they just heard. You don't know
if their family member is sick.You don't know where they're even going.
You don't know what's going on intheir lives. Right. So the example
is maybe having a road rage thing, but we can apply that to any
part of our lives. And thatgoes in your career as well. So
your colleague is quiet, not sayinganything, you know, you know something's

(01:10:48):
off. You might take that asa cute. I'm not going to intrude
or bother this person to take becausethey're going through something, right, You're
not going to go be in theirface when you can tell by their body
language that they're would drawn. Soit just being able to understand and see
everyone else from this viewpoint that they'rethey've got their own issues going on,
and you're just coming in so likeim now, I'm coming in from as

(01:11:09):
a public speaker right with that haton, I'm coming in for just a
few minutes of that person's time totry and peel them away from all of
the stresses of their world, allof the different you know, responsibilities that
are weighing down on them, thework that they've got to do with their
kids, all these things, andtrying to find a way to uplift them,
trying to find a way to getthem to see, yes, I

(01:11:30):
am happy that I woke up todayand I have this life. Trying to
remind them of all the good blessingsthat they have in their lives, because
it is so easy to fall intothis negative and what you were talking about,
the victim mentality. I do havea problem with that sort of mentality
anywhere, right, whether it's infriendships, family, that's like you say,

(01:11:53):
like, oh, hurting my feelings, it's my feelings, being too
deep in feelings. And I knowthere's a time and place feelings, but
being too deep in feelings to thepoint where you don't see other people's feelings,
that's when you start started losing focus. You started losing the big picture
of how you impact others, becauseyour life really matters and really impacts the

(01:12:15):
next person whoever you spoke to,like you walked in and you spoke to
a few people, and we walkedin here. Those people the things you
said today to them that uplifted them, you know, you said, thank
you so much, I'm so happyI got to work with you. Those
little words might not seem like much, but they're going to go home that
that's like a little boost, likea little you know, like a tiny
little boost in their energy that theydon't even notice, but they're going to

(01:12:36):
carry that with them everywhere they go. So you have to be really well
intentioned the way you interact with others, because you want to leave them better
than they then you found them.I love all of that, and you
know it goes into a lot ofthe communication that you teach and that you
shared with your teams, but thatyou also do today. I want to
make a few little notes as aninsurance agent here and the owner of an

(01:12:58):
insurance company, Denton Insurance. Thatis of course, those those years are
long passed. So I try tobe very conscious on the road, not
just for my wife or for mywell being or for the well being of
the other person in the car.But I have a license to uphold and
I'm not just talking about my driver'slicense, So I want to make sure

(01:13:20):
that everybody knows that and is verywell aware of that. So it was
it was an example that we wereusing. And then the other thing I
want to mention though, is iswhat you were talking about that space.
So Matt Alfonso was on the shownot too long ago, a fellow toast
master, and we call it thegap. And I call it that now
in my life, I just say, I just need to find the gap,

(01:13:43):
or I haven't found the gap.Like I was having a conversation with
my wife about this where things arevery stressful at work and at home and
in in my hobby. My basketballleague was driving me nuts recently. So
I have all these three things overlapping, over these different things. Family parties
and this work thing that I'm tryingto figure out for Denten and all this
other stuff right are overlapping. Thesestresses are overlapping. And I was snapping

(01:14:08):
and I said to my wife,I was just like, you know what,
I'll be honest with you, Ijust can't find the gap. And
she knows what I mean by that, because I'm like, in that moment
that you're talking about is when youmake that decision whether to snap or to
just bite your tongue and realize,I'm having a victim moment, right and
right, And it's okay to haveyour pity party, but it's not okay

(01:14:29):
to spread it with on others.Right, that's not okay. You know,
if you have that empathetic person thatwants to hug you and give you
the kiss that you need, fine, but it's not okay to lose it
with others because you're having that right, Because I think the one thing that
I learned last year from a newfriend of mine that I met was I
was talking about how I felt whenI interact with some individuals. Some individuals

(01:14:55):
are just sucking energy. They justtake all your good energy. And if
you're one of those people that comewith your cup bills like you have all
this good energy and you want toshare that, great, But if you
have someone just a take or takeor taker poke holes in your cup.
Yeah yeah, And also you're nothaving enough time to regroup and refill that
cup. Having that understanding that somepeople need to have limited time because protecting

(01:15:18):
that mental psyche that we hold asentrepreneurs or as individuals with confidence in any
career that you're in. You wantto be able to be impenetrable. You
don't want someone else to come inand be able to put their negative energy
and emotions onto you and then impactthe rest of your day, and then
that's going to impact who you interactwith. Right. So, what you're

(01:15:40):
talking about with victim mentality, it'sbecome I'm seeing that a lot in social
media. I'm seeing that a lotin mainstream media talking about victim mentality and
certain ideological spaces. Coming from myexperience, I don't live in that space.
I don't like that space. Iactually I think it's encumbers growth,
It encumbers imagination and being able toreally flourish. And the way around that

(01:16:08):
is if you have a team,and you're working with a team, I
think having a can do philosophy.Right. So one of the things I
remember, I had a department filledwith social worker, psychiatrists, psychologists.
They're all lovely, amazing people.They were doing amazing work, and I
would have these monthly department meetings toreally boost them up because the truth is

(01:16:30):
they're getting unloaded on as mental healthproviders. Everyone doesn't think about how much
they're taking in when they're listening toother people's issues, and so I would
take that time and I would talkto them about what is your can do?
What is something that you can bringforward that because they would like to
come to me to do everything,and I say, take a moment,

(01:16:51):
like you're saying the gap, takea moment and think about what is it
that I can do to improve myselfbefore I go to Angel. And that's
how I was able to get peopleto start being more proactive because they wanted
to be better right, and thenthey would do things and if sometimes they
would come knock on my door.I remember when doctor came and knocked on
my door and said, Angel,I just want to let you know.

(01:17:13):
I was going to call you andask you to do how to do this,
but then I thought, you knowwhat, I'm going to see if
I can do this myself. Yeah. You know when you were there at
the hospital, you're you're saying thatin the in the buyo that you said
over in that you were working,you were put in a division where the
morale was completely low. But bybringing this can due attitude, by communicating

(01:17:38):
that was another thing I wanted tobring up with you. It's like just
your communication skills. And opening up. And you mentioned your dad being an
active listener, just by doing thatwith this group, and you bring up
a doctor and we understand there's egos, right, Oh yeah, in the
hospital there are egos. There aredoctors, there are nurses, there are
administrators, there are all sorts ofdifferent goes just battling for position. Yeah,

(01:18:01):
and for you to be this place, the safe place where a doctor
knocks on your door, I'm justlike wow. Yeah. But it's also
because I think I was positioning myselfas their motivating going right, I'm not
coming in as I'm your boss.I'm not coming in as I'm the one,
you know, even though technically Iwas the one looking at their productivity,

(01:18:26):
I was the one bringing them inand saying, hey, you didn't
see X amount of patients. Iwasn't their favorite person in those moments.
But I never made it about meand I never made it about them.
I made it about the work andabout the patients. When you bring it
back to the company goals, oryou bring it back to the big picture
of who you're helping, no onegets upset then, right If it's about
Oh, when you're talking about aproductivit you didn't do this, you didn't

(01:18:47):
do that, then yeah, peopleare gonna get upset, but you have
to frame it the right way.It's about finessing the message right and when
you finesse the message enough, andthen also listen, you know me how
I am in the Toastmaster's meetings.You see how it is. I'm very
real. I tell you exactly what'sgoing on with me. I'm not fake.
I can't be fake. I can'teven lie. I'm not a liar.

(01:19:08):
So if you put it, ifyou want to find out if someone
got killed and I was a witnessed, I will tell you exactly what happened
because I'm not able to I can'tcover for crimes. I'm not that person,
right, so people know I'm astraight shooter. I talk exactly what
I'm thinking. I'm not the typeperson that has something in the back of
my mind I'm holding it. Sothey know that. So there's a level
of comfort that comes with that becauseI am playing the support. I am

(01:19:32):
coming to them, And anyone who'sin a leadership position has to see this
that you are not an ego whereyou're like I'm the boss, I'm this.
You are coming at it from aservice standpoint, right, someone needs
help, you're in charge. Youfind a way to put out that fire,
or you find a way to helpguide them, whatever it is.
But if you come at it fromthe angle that you're going to be,

(01:19:55):
I'm the head honcho, everything needsto run through me. I don't have
trust in my team. You who'severyone right in that moment? Yeah,
that communication is so important. Iwant to also just go back for a
second too, about what your mother'slessons too, because I was thinking about
it. We related it to publicspeaking. But this whole victim energy thing.
She could have been a victim toyour dad's brain aneurysm. Yes,

(01:20:17):
but she chose not to be,and she taught you that. And it
just relates back to this this worldthat we live in, of today,
of just now, our present world. Is what I mean to say,
of just you being able to bewho you are because of this, this
teaching that you have this foundation of, like, you know, get your
education, get all your ducks ina row, because you never know what's

(01:20:40):
going to happen, and you canbe responsible for your own future. Yes,
yes, and planning that out mymom was definitely she saw already in
her life, the mistakes that shefelt I might make if I didn't get
my education. That was a bigpart of it. But the victim melletman
tell you that you're talking about,and I just to bring this back to

(01:21:00):
working. Have you heard the termquiet quitting quiet quitting now so I could
assume what it is. Yeah,it's it's basically a term that they're saying
that individuals who are working now arenot going to go above and beyond their
their normal just punch to ticket andsit at the desk right right. I
you know, and I talk thisto this to the people who are listening

(01:21:23):
to my podcast too. I don'treally like that term. I don't even
like the idea because I think anyonewho's going to work if you're and I
understand that there should be some boundariesto work life balance, of course,
but if you're not willing to takeon new projects, how are you expanding
your skills? You know, ifyou're taking that standpoint of well, I'm
I'm victim. I already do toomuch around here. It's like a negative

(01:21:45):
slant, right, It's a negativeway of thinking. You lose those opportunities
for growth, and then you losethe opportunity to be seen by the right
people to move you up right.Yeah, and this quiet quitting. My
assumption on it too is we've seenit before. And just as a term
that people are putting on it,it's they're checked out. Yes, they're
just they're checked out of the work. And I think it's really hard as

(01:22:08):
an employer to figure that out sometimes. But communication is what helps. Yes,
you know, if you're communicating withyour team, like I meet with
my team twice a week and morethan that because we speak regularly throughout the
day, they text me, callme, whatever it is. We're dialed
in on each other. I knowwhen they're checked out, and it happens

(01:22:29):
to all of us. We checkout for a little bit. But I
know that, and you know,by by having that open communication on a
regular basis, it also allows meto be able to give grace to it.
And what I mean by that isI'll speak to one of my team
members and I'll recognize that they're notat let's say they're quote unquote desk.

(01:22:50):
We're a virtual office, so theywork from home, so their desk could
be anywhere in their home. ButI'll recognize that, and I think that
there's sometimes where I need to callthem out on that and say like,
hey, I need you in frontof your computer because we need to go
over this. And then there aresometimes where it doesn't matter because for the
most part, we communicate so muchthat I know that they're dialed in,

(01:23:12):
right and that in that moment,I'm catching them. They're doing their dishes,
but I'm not catching them. WhatI mean by is catching them is
I've given them a call and theypicked up my phone. My phone call,
there's no need to say to them, well, why aren't you at
your desk? That doesn't make anysense. Yeah, Because we communicate so
often, we're gonna need to checkout every once in a while, right,
It's pretty normal. Yeah, Butwhat we're talking about is they're always

(01:23:33):
doing their dishes. Yeah, they'realways in the car driving somewhere there now.
But again, go back to communication. As a good leader, which
which you've talked about too. Inyour positions. You know that and you
start picking up on that and you'relike, what's going on, Yes,
exactly, and you're talking about themark of a great leader. Right.
You know, in your role youneed to be checking in with your team.

(01:23:57):
There are leaders out there who arenot checking in, They're not making
that effort to really connect. SoI'll give you an example one of the
one of the employees that was aregular issue. I remember HR coming to
me and telling me, listen,you have this person on your team.
And this is when I was atthe point where I was running operations and
there was over three hundred people werereporting up to me and this one individual.

(01:24:20):
Yeah yeah, yeah. And Idid have like four or five middle
managers between me and the stuff.But there was one team that did report
directly of me, which was partof the clinical team. And there was
definitely a few problem employees. Onein particular always came late, always late,

(01:24:40):
and the HR person was before Icame in, handling her lateness and
giving her warnings and all this stuff. But the HR person didn't have I
guess, passionate leadership, right,she didn't have those skills. When I
came in, I was like,she's like, you need to talk to
her. You know, this isthe this is the third time, and
you know she's not gonna bubble whileshe's the HR person is very frazzled.

(01:25:01):
So I said, okay, noproblem, I'll get her in. So
I brought in the employee and Isat her down. I said, hey,
I want to talk to you first. I want to know how are
you doing. I think I mighthave been the first person to ask her
that question in the company, becauseshe started to cry. And then she
started to tell me my mom wasdisdiagnosed with cancer early in the morning.
I'm taking her to appointments and I'mtrying to get here on time, but

(01:25:24):
I have to get her in forthese, you know, infusions. And
I said, oh, I'm sosorry. I wish I wish you had
told me this sooner. It wouldhave been really important for us to know.
And she said, well, Imean I just didn't feel like I
could say anything. And that wasbecause the culture and that in that place
was so low at that point,So the previous manager didn't have a culture

(01:25:46):
there that allowed that employee to feelopen enough to share. So what you're
saying is you're dialed in with youremployees. You're checking in. You know,
okay, they're at the dishes orwhatever, but you're regularly checking in
and you're giving them at opening thathey I'm here, I'm Michael's here available
to you. That's a mark ofa good leader. But if you're in
a role, if you come intoa role and you see that people are

(01:26:08):
really they're actually, I want tosay, they're really traumatized from not having
a good leader. So then theyretract and they pulled back and they don't
share and they don't tell you what'sgoing on. And that's a big part
of this, having that vulnerability asa leader, to be able to share
enough that people feel comfortable coming toyou, yeah, and listening to them
and listening to their concerns or pain. But also I think to what you're

(01:26:30):
saying, I just want to addto that too, is like not putting
a consequence to them sharing, right, right, you know, like this
woman that shared this with you,Like, I don't know what you ended
up having to do there, butjust to remove that situation because I don't
need I don't want you to haveto go into an HR story because I
know where that can go. Right, But it's not putting a consequence to
it of saying, all right,well you relate, so now you're fired,

(01:26:53):
right, thanks for sharing. No, it's it's recognizing and like you
said, having some empathy and beinga human being. Right, Okay,
you know what, Well, let'sstart clean slate, right, and let's
figure out what do we need todo to move forward, what works well
for all of us so that thiscan work? Right? You know,
we value you, you value us. How can we make all of this
work? Because we also can't haveyou come in late every time? Right,

(01:27:15):
you know, because the other employeesdon't know your situation, nor do
you necessarily want them to know.Right, And so how do we make
it to where everybody sees you comingin on time? Right? What does
that look like for us? Right? And it's motivating for them when they
feel like they've been heard, right? Every Even me, if I'm going
through something and my boss came tome and I was working and it was

(01:27:36):
like, hey, what's going on? Maybe I need someone to say,
hey, what's going on? Yeah, sometimes people don't want to share,
Yes, that's true, but thereare some employees that need to share.
Right. They're different, right,Each person is different. So if you
know you have someone in your inyour team that is more private, you
could go up and say, hey, I notice that you've been off.

(01:27:57):
I want to just let you knowI'm here. If you want to talk.
Just give them a heads up andthey might just say okay, thank
you. But that's enough. Actually, Sometimes for those private people and for
the people who are willing to share, sometimes they just need to get things
off their chest. You might haveto be a listening ear as a leader
in that moment and then say,Okay, I hear what's going on with
you. I understand. Let's tryto you know, do X y Z

(01:28:20):
to get to this place. Andbecause you took that time to listen as
an active listener. And just likeI was saying with my father, he's
an active listener. People loved himwhy because he listened. People don't listen
anymore. In friendships and relationships,nobody listened. Everyone wants to just shout
at the top of their lungs listento me, listen to me. So
everyone's talking over each other, butnobody's really taking that time. Yeah,

(01:28:43):
the listening thing is so important.And I want to move past this so
quickly because I don't even want togo down this rabbit hole hole. But
would I would put a lot ofweight on social media for that reason,
because social media really forces all ofus to shout out what are we doing?

(01:29:05):
I mean, I'll say I'm guiltyof it. I mean, I
really do it more from a professionalstandpoint than I do from a personal standpoint.
But that's what social media is.It's if you don't post, if
you don't post a picture about yourself, or about your food or your dog,
or your house or your car orwhatever it is your vacation. If
you don't post, or if youdon't comment, then you don't exist online.

(01:29:27):
We don't exist in social media.So it forces our brains to kind
of rewire itself to say, Ineed to I need to post, and
I what I this is. Ihave no degree in any of this.
This is total Michael opinion. Michael'sopinion corner, right, So this is
Michael's opinion quarter in that what Iwould believe is that because we're wiring our

(01:29:48):
brains to post and to do allof this stuff, that in social interactions
it's coming through the same way.I'm talking to you and you've said what
you had to say, and nowI'm going to tell you what I have
to say, and you said,well you have to say, and I'm
going to tell you what I haveto say, and there's no real communication
because that's what social media is.That's exactly what a scroll is. When

(01:30:09):
you scroll and post, you arewatching what somebody else says, and you
are just posting what you say.Yes, oh my goodness, you know
what you just said. That isso true. These last three years,
people have lost their really good,I want to say, experienced social skills
interpersonally. Yeah, they've lost itbecause what you're saying is this, we've

(01:30:31):
fixated so much on technology that we'velost how to connect individually on an individual
level. So the people who havereally good interpersonal skills are going to get
ahead much faster now because they're ableto tap in. They're not even afraid
of how do I look, becauseit doesn't matter right, like anyway at
this point now, it's really aboutconnecting with somebody else. So if someone's

(01:30:55):
going outside of their comfort zone tryingto connect with the next person, right,
they're really really making that effort theother person. Most people are not
making that effort. Right then,Now you look like a big outlier when
it comes to connections. Such abig advantage to just be able to connect.
It's you know, it's funny,You're you're right, It's like,

(01:31:15):
and I love what you just saidto like, it doesn't even matter how
you look anymore. Like, it'sso funny because I switched from pre covid,
I would wear a suit and tie. I was always suit and tie
like that is what I wore.And it helped me because like in the
insurance world. Sure most people wearsuit and ties in the insurance world,
but they're typically behind a desk.I was in the insurance world cutting my

(01:31:38):
teeth in the insurance world wearing asuit and tie and cold calling. And
when you're cold calling, walking intobusinesses, just cold like I don't know
them, they don't know me,That's what that is. And a man
or a woman in a suit walksin, people take notice. Yes,
so it really helped me in mycareer. But now as CEO of a
company, I wear jeans and at shirt. Yeah, well, the

(01:32:00):
perks of being your own CEO.But what I'm getting at is that,
I mean, even in social settingsnow, and it's because it's true what
you just said, people don't lookat me. And it's regardless because they
don't even know that I am theowner of dent and a lot of times
I don't even know that, right, they don't even care what I'm wearing
about a suit and tire because we'rehaving that interpersonal You're right, it's so

(01:32:20):
true. I didn't even think aboutit until you just said it. We're
just having a connection where we're makingeye contact, we're talking, we're having
a conversation, and they're like,WHOA, I haven't had this in a
long time. I'm telling you,it's food for the soul when you're really
connecting with someone really deeply, likeyou're you're sharing a story and there's something
about them that, oh that resonateswith me, and then there's something you

(01:32:41):
say, and then that resonates withthem. Oh my god, it's like
magic. It's I think you canlook back. I'm sure this has happened
to you. I remember, andit's only happened in certain intervals in my
life. I'll meet somebody and weconnect like that, like so quickly.
And I mean, I'm a verysociable person. I get along with everybody,
but everyone doesn't click with me thesame way. And you know what
I'm talking about. It's a specialconnection. There's something aligned in the way

(01:33:05):
your energies are. And one ofmy really good friends from work who I
still talk to now and now thatI'm an entrepreneur, we're still like very
close. She had this energy whenshe walked in the room. And this
is the way women make friends.Okay, women CEO another woman. They
love their energy. Like I sawher, She's gorgeous. First of all,

(01:33:27):
she's like the most beautiful person.And then she had this beautiful smile
on her face and she was laughing, and she just had all this good
energy. And I was like,I want to be her friend. I
remember thinking that, and then Iremember approaching her and talking to her,
and what do you know, wejust clicked. And I couldn't believe it
because I already I liked her energywhen she walked into the room, and
then we just got and now we'resuch good friends. And you you just

(01:33:48):
don't know who it is. ButI want to say this with that energy
exchange, and this is what Iwas getting it that I learned when you're
walking into the room, you're exchangeenergy with the person. You want to
make sure that the energy that otherpeople are giving you as a leader,
you're not absorbing it because as aleader, you're going to get a lot

(01:34:10):
more negative energy coming to you thanpositive because that's the role you're in.
So you're probably in your role withyour team, you're getting a lot of
the negative because I think it wasPresident Obama said this, when the decisions
finally come to his desk, they'rebasically impossible decisions, right, everyone else
made the regular decision easy ones atthe bottom and then So it's similar when

(01:34:31):
you're a leader of a company.The hardest, toughest decisions, the hardest
problems, the biggest fires that needto be put out are what lands in
your plate? How do you reactto that? How do you keep your
composure with that? That's where yourtrue core essence comes out? How have
I been readied for this? So? I know for me, my parents

(01:34:53):
ready me as a child because wehad all these issues growing up and you
know, like my father's you know, disability. It was a big I
had to ready myself for the futurethat what if that happens to me in
the future, Right, My momprepped me for that those kinds of things.
Everyone doesn't have that. So youhaving this ability as a leader to
recognize, Okay, I have thisfoundation, but maybe these people don't have

(01:35:15):
it. So I need to rememberhaving some kind of humility in that and
also guiding and serving and serving andguiding is what you just said, and
it just brings us to what you'redoing today and inspiring today's youth. So
I just if you could share alittle bit more about what you are doing,
I'd love to hear a little bitabout that. Well. Well,

(01:35:36):
I mean, my whole everything aboutmy career did not go the way I
was planning, right I was tellingyou out. I jumped around, and
then I went in and I wentinto healthcare. And I was very successful
going up the ranks and healthcare.But getting to that place from graduating college
with one idea and then moving finallytill I got to the place where I
felt really comfortable and happy with myself, that was a lot as exagging through

(01:36:00):
my career and during those periods.First of all, when you change careers,
and I was talking to you aboutthis earlier, when I saw you
quit your job and you want tomove into being an entrepreneur, such an
exciting I saw the energy in yourvideo there. That moment is a very
fearful moment in that in your life. It's so exciting, but also so
much fear because it's the unknown.You don't know what you're getting yourself into.

(01:36:25):
You don't know if it's even theright decision. You don't know if
you're losing a good paycheck, asolid stable thing, and you're moving into
someplace that what if you hate it? What if you don't like it?
Right? So, the whole goalof this podcast was I'm looking back now
too, when I was in college. I wish someone told me so many
of the things that I should haveknown that it's okay to take those risks.

(01:36:45):
It's okay if you don't like whatyou're doing right now. This is
these years in your twenties and thirtiesas you're figuring stuff out. It's okay
to say, all right, I'mdone with this, I'm moving on to
this, I'm doing something new.Having the ability to read invent yourself.
I'm gonna give you an example ofthat. Madonna, queen of reinvention.
How many times did she come outwith an album looking completely different than the

(01:37:09):
last time, The music was completelydifferent, Everything is different every time.
The art of reinventing yourself is howyou stay relevant and current. Yeah,
yeah, and I mean I've doneit multiple times. That you made me
think about all the different times I'vehad to do it. But but also
that that reinvention. There's so muchgrowth that happens inside of it. I

(01:37:30):
know we talked a lot about that, but because because you're going so deep
to what you were just talking about, that like that fear, right.
So it's so there is this joyon one end of like I'm gonna like
typically you're doing this because you believeyou're fulfilling some sort of inner desire.
Right, So there's this huge joy, yes, but there's this fear that

(01:37:55):
that overwhelms you sometimes too. That'snot just sometimes, it's part of it.
It's part of that journey that islike the sinking feeling this like self
doubt, this worry and failures cometo mind. All of that and what
I think about when I when Ithink about it, those experiences I'm talking

(01:38:15):
about the negative ones, the thethe depression, the pain, the fear,
those are kind of also building whoI am, right and they're giving
me that strength and so they playa role as well. So it's not
just about the highs in the reinvention, it's also about realizing the lows and

(01:38:39):
what is that? Who was Ithat? Who was that person? How
do they play into who I amtoday? What's changed? What have I
how have I grown from there?And in fact, you just reminded me
now as we're getting so deep intothis is I just had this conversation with
my coach. We were just talkingabout old Michael versus New Michael, and
I was like, I was tellingI always call it old Michael, right,

(01:39:00):
I was like, yeah, OldMichael was like mad at was mad
as hell, and he was sopissed and I could see him and He's
like yelling at me and whatever,and I'm just like looking at him,
going go away, go away.And she stopped me and she goes,
well, wait right, She goes, what is old Michael trying to tell
you right now? And I waslike, whoa, so huge pause.

(01:39:20):
I won't do it for our audiencehere, but huge pause in that moment
with her, and I start thinkingabout what is old Michael screaming about?
Right? Like what is he ragingabout? And one of it was one
you're letting me go right, You'reyou're saying goodbye to me, But the
truth is no, I'm not right. You're reminding me how much how far

(01:39:41):
I've come right right, So thatto remember that that those like fearful moments
still old Michael or old angel orwhoever is listening, the old version of
you that is you still right.I really, I really feel like when
we embrace who we were before.I embraced that version of myself twenty years

(01:40:04):
ago, didn't know what I wasdoing, wanted a lot of money.
I embraced that version because that wasstill an ambitious person back then. I
just didn't know what I really wanted. I thought I wanted that, but
I know that that was directing meto get here somehow, where we are
today. Every decision we made,even small decision that you don't think about.

(01:40:24):
I'm sure that this has happened inyour life where a simple thing like
maybe ordering a pizza, or likesomething really silly led you to meet somebody
that you would never have otherwise everhave met in your whole life. And
then you think back on, ohmy gosh, if I didn't make that
one really bantled decision to do somethingsilly, like you know, order pizza
or whatever, I would never metthis person. And that is so crazy

(01:40:45):
when you think about how many interactionswe have in our entire life, that
something so simple like that, everydecision we make, no matter how small,
can impact our life the point isthat we don't know. It could
be as simple as where am Igoing to pick up my coffee today?
And then who am I going tobump into? You don't know? Right?
Yeah? No, And and that'swhat I wanted to say too,

(01:41:08):
is like it's just that, likeyou just said, you are still that
person. So you're not saying goodbyeto that old version of yourself. They
are playing a role into who youare today and use that and it's strength.
And I just want to say,like to your point of like you
never know you're above into. Iwas invited to a birthday party now it's
probably about twelve years ago of somebodywho I didn't really know that well,

(01:41:30):
but I was like invited because myfriends were invited, so they kind of
like side invited me. Yeah,and I was like, I mean I
always always down for a party backthen, so it wasn't even a thought
to go or not go. Butlong story short, because of time here,
that's where I met my wife.I mean I didn't know it at
the time. She was just youknow when you were describing that beautiful woman

(01:41:51):
with the energy, I mean Ithought you were talking about my wife,
you know, like that's what Isaw, you know, I saw her
beautiful redhead and we locked eyes veryquickly, and that night we got to
know each other very well that night, right away, and it wasn't easy,
like we didn't get together right away, and it took a couple of

(01:42:13):
years before we ended up, butshe ended up becoming my wife. But
it's like that moment, you canremember it like it was just way the
moment you felt her energy. Andthat's why I always say, you have
to have some intention with how you'representing in the world, how you're showing
yourself to be, because it's anattractive energy, like you saw her,
and you saw an attractive feeling becauseyou feel attracted to that good energy.

(01:42:35):
She's open and I felt the samething with my friend and so many people
in my life. There was anenergy there that I was attracted to.
And normally those energies that I'm attractedto, for me is people who are
really real and very vulnerable and arenot fake in any way. Because I'm
such a straight shooter, I tendto attract those kinds of people and those
are the people I click with themost. But you also you have an

(01:42:59):
idea of what your core values arebased on who you like being around.
So and you find that there's peopleyou have real admiration for us. So
my friend, I'm going to useher as an example. I have a
lot of admiration for her. She'sso educated, she's so well put together,
so well dressed, and she's sofunny. She makes me laugh.
She's just everything about her like she'slike a version of my dad, you

(01:43:21):
could say, like but a femaleversion. Just a wonderful person. I
feel better when I'm around that person. So how about we as individuals,
as leaders, think about how arewe presenting in the world. Are we
making people around us feel better whenwe come in contact with them, Because
I've definitely had leaders who I wasworking for who did not do that for

(01:43:42):
me. And I'm sure she saysthe same about you in terms of like
how you make her feel because I'msure you know, it becomes reciprocal.
Yah, people reciprocate it. Ijust want to also just hear a little
bit more about your podcast and whatyou're doing there. Yeah. So the
so I was leading into that witheverything about and we are all over the
place now, But the whole reasonI made the podcast really was to be

(01:44:03):
able to interview people with very differentbackgrounds. It doesn't all have to be
corporate. I mean some people canbe in entrepreneurial roles, or they could
be in healthcare whatever, it doesn'tmatter. The point is really to show
people that first of all, thesepeople also had to jump around in their
careers before they made it there numberone, number two, they all had

(01:44:26):
different lessons that they learn along theway. And the point of this is
so the younger people who are nowcoming up, we're just figuring out these
things. And also, FYI,we're coming into an era where maybe education
is going to be changing, right, It's not going to be always a
four year degree or you know,getting your masters or whatever. I think

(01:44:47):
that education is changing now to morelived experiences as well. So all of
the people who are coming onto theshow are really sharing how their life change
based on what they're pulling are whatlessons they've learned along the way. And
I also do solo episodes where Ijust talk about different topics relevant to corporate
and how to present yourself and howto really be a professional because so much

(01:45:12):
is lost, Like I know whatyou're talking about earlier about how like you
used to wear a sue and nowyou're wearing a shirt. And that's the
benefit of being your own boss.Yes, But when you're in a corporate
environment and you want to be movingup, you really want to address a
certain part because you're really filling arole, right, You're want and you
want to be seen a certain way, and all of those things are even

(01:45:32):
it seems like silly stuff, butit actually makes a big difference the way
you present. Yeah, you're notwalking into a corporate setting in the shirt
and a T shirt and jeans.But what I will say about my T
shirt and jeans is that it ismy den ten logo that it's always on
it. Yeah, well it's it'sadvertising, it's a it's a branding thing
for sure. But you know,it goes back to like your you know,
you had made some really strong pointshere about look the part, work

(01:45:57):
the working product, and tell themwhat you want. And to me,
I'm in my notes, I putyour branding yourself, that's brand, your
reputation, that's your brand. Sowhat you're talking when you're looking the part
and your work product, that isyour brand. Yeah, and that's what
people speak about is your personal brand. And so you, whether whether you're
an entrepreneur, whether you're in thetrying to get to the C suite,
you need to build a personal brandthat other people promote. That you know,

(01:46:20):
that's PR. I had Philomina onshe was talking about PR. That's
PR. Other people talking behind yourback about your personal brand. Yes,
in a good way. That isis good PR. That's PR. And
when you're telling them what you want, that's promotion. You are advertising yourself.
Right, So shout out to Philominabecause she taught me all that.
But those are the notes that Imade. You are the way that you

(01:46:43):
carry yourself in all those places.That's exactly what it is is brand promotion
and PR. Right. And itsounds so technical when you say it like
that, but it's so basic.Right. It's really just about when you
wake up in the morning and yougo to your closet, are you going
to wear you know something that's alittle bit nicer today because you want to
person yourself a little bit better?Yes, you do. Right. It's
I think there's a confidence problem rightnow in our country because it's after being

(01:47:09):
retracted and being pulled in and everyone'sbeen quarantined and no one's gone outside into
the world. We probably can't evenfit into all of our clothes the same
way anymore because things have changed somuch. But go outside, by new
outfit, Go outside and get yourselfout there, go talk to people,
be alive. Right. Being behindscreens and behind social media, yes,
that's good to a degree, Butthe real crux of being leader like and

(01:47:33):
really getting to like the nuts ofbolts, of being up close and personal
with a human being is actually interactingone on one and not through technology,
because you lose that. And Ithink you would agree with me that our
in person Toastmasters meetings are always somuch more thought provoking and deeper because we're
seeing more than just someone's head.We're seeing the full body they're They're deeper.

(01:47:56):
I mean, I always I feelbad that I I don't feel bad.
I wish I would have been ableto make our last one because I
know I have to wait another monthto get to get to the next one.
Because I do. I love thein person ones. I just want
to say to what you were justsaying there is it has to do with
intention, right, It's about intention, Like I haven't when I put on
my T shirt and jeans, Ihave an intention like my jeans are intentional,

(01:48:19):
my shirt is intentional. It's intentionalbecause I do think about it.
I go what shirt am I wearingand what is it for? Because there
are certain places where I actually won'twear a T shirt and jeans. I'll
put my Denten T shirt on,but I'll put a suit over it because
that's what the what it calls for. So there is it's intention behind what

(01:48:39):
we do. And I'm so happyto hear about your podcast that you're doing
where it's so similar to what we'redoing here. So like when I started
the micluss Posito Show, it wasbecause I wanted to learn from entrepreneurs like
yourself, from business leaders like yourself. I wanted to learn from them,
and so I was like, well, I'm going to interview them and learn
from them, and my audience isgoing to also take part in that and
they're going to learn from them.And what you're doing with your podcast is

(01:49:00):
similar in like you're learning from otherpeople's experiences so that we don't make the
same mistakes and also having the confidence, because I think that's the one thing
that when when we're younger, Ithink I really also I sound confident talking
to you now about it. ButI wasn't as confident back then when every
time I made a switch, whenI went from government to finance, even
though that was what I wanted todo, I really liked the position I

(01:49:24):
was in right before I moved,So then I was really questioned should I
make the switch? So those arereally big unknowns when you're young. And
the truth is, when we're younger, we still are trying to figure things
out. We're still trying to seewhere we fit in the world, and
we're still trying to figure out whatour identity is. We're still making it.
Then we don't. We're not allput together by time we graduate school

(01:49:46):
or by time we're right. Yeah, And I think as entrepreneurs we're always
reinventing ourselves. But even in careerchanges, career to career, everything that
we're doing, like you said,intention be intentional about the change. Don't
just go into it because oh there'san opening in this field. I want
to try it out, do theresearch, really look into it. Yeah,

(01:50:09):
be intentional. So your your mantrathat you live by is no surprise
then, which is I am themaster of my fate? I am the
captain of my soul. Invictitous thankyou. Yes, I've loved that phrase
since I was a child. Iremember writing it on a white board when

(01:50:29):
I was like fifteen years old inmy room. And I really believe that
you you're a life right now canchange if you decide to, if you
make you have to make a conscious, intentional decision to make the change.
You can't let life happen to you. You have to be able to make
life happen for you. And there'sa clear difference between letting life happen to

(01:50:55):
you and though. Those are thepeople who are maybe in a position a
company. They're working really hard,like I was hard, and then nothing
was happening. Why am I notgetting a raise? Why am I not
getting promoted? Right? Well,did you try taking that extra step forward
and maybe open your mouth and saysomething? No, maybe not, Maybe
you're too scared too, But thatthing that you're scared of, that's usually

(01:51:15):
where the direction you're supposed to begoing. If there's a little bit of
fear there saying oh no, I'mnot going to do that, you might
not even be afraid of a feeling. You might be afraid of success,
and you to think about that sometimeswhat are you really afraid of? It
might not be failure, yeah,yeah, and making the decision. You
know, Tony Robbins talks about thattoo, and so many people now I

(01:51:35):
hear, not just him, buthe's the one who sticks in my mind
typically, especially when we're talking onself improvement and stuff like that. But
it's really everything is just a decision. Like you can decide to be happy,
you can decide to be sad,you can decide it's really just making
decisions. And we were talking aboutthis before we went on air about you.
You were saying about how you don'tknow how I find the time and

(01:51:59):
to do the things that I'm doing, and and it just goes back to
decisions. It's I make a decisionI want to do this, Yes,
this is what I want. Yes, And sometimes I make a decision to
relax. But you know, whatI found is that when I decide not
to do certain things, it opensup to the things that I really want,

(01:52:24):
right. You know, So whatI was saying to before it was
when you said I don't know ifhow you find a time, I'm like,
it's really more about like just notdoing certain things that suck our time.
That's so true. It's so easyto get time suckers. With all
of the social media out there.You could, like you could easily scroll
and lose an hour without even realizingan hour's gone. Well, my suggestion
to all of you out there,if you don't want to do that,

(01:52:45):
is just higher social media manager.Yeah, you know, I don't go
on social because my social media managerdoes it for me. Yes, and
she sends me little notes every oncein a while. She says, hey,
your wife just sent us to youvials, so you may want to
look at it. So then I'lllook at it. Go Okay, it
gives me some mommy thing. It'spretty neat. But anyway, you know,
that's a good tip. Hire someoneto do that, because I do
think that that is one of thethings that's sucking time from a lot of

(01:53:08):
people. Now, Oh tremendous.I mean, you know, it just
based off a lot of the conversationswhere they say, you know, when
someone starts of conversation with I sawon Facebook, you know you know where
they are, Yeah, you knowwhere they are? Yeah, you know
my parents is I saw on What'sUp? Because Indian families love to what's
up? Videos and then my mom'slike is this real? I'm like,
don't please, don't look it forwardsfrom what's up? Oh goodness? Yeah,

(01:53:30):
Well, you know what social mediais great? I mean, I
will say, like my family,we use a what'sapp chat. Yeah,
we do too that, you know, just for all of us to be
in there together. So it's wonderful. So you have to be careful.
But I created that what'sapp chat forour family intentionally because I didn't want to
be on Facebook. Yeah, becauseI didn't want to be scrolling through Facebook
to find out what my aunt isdoing or my cousin is doing. So
I created one where it's just thatmy aunts and uncles and family members to

(01:53:55):
where these are the people that Iwant to know what's going on in their
life. But I can't call themall the time or text them all the
time. It's just it just doesn'twork in our day, right, Yes,
but I can go to that WhatsAppand I know so and so graduated
this or such and such happened here, or they're going on a family vacation
and they really what's really nice aboutit is that it actually filters a lot
because they really only put the importantstuff in Yes, there's none of this

(01:54:16):
other fluff of like look at metoday, what do you think of this
outfit? It's more like, hey, we are in Disney today. Yeah,
you know, like this is whatwe're doing and that's it. Yeah,
and it's cool. I think it'sgood. I think I think a
lot of families have started taking advantageof the group chat function. And I
have one from my father's side ofthe family, one from my mother's side
family India. They all love what'sappAnd then you know, we have our

(01:54:38):
nuclear family here, so we havea couple of family groups like that.
But yeah, I agree. Ithink social media is a great resource for
businesses. It's a great resource foryoung people to connect with each other.
But don't make that the only wayyou connect. Yeah, to be very
careful to make a decision on that. So where can people hear your podcasts
and find out more and also watchyou in action. They can hear me

(01:55:00):
right here on iHeartRadio and they're onall it's on all major platforms. I
am currently actually I'm very excited becauseI'm preparing for the speech contest for Toastmaster.
So if someone's dropping in for thatcoming up, in March. That
would be another way they could seeme. And I'm really excited because I'm
going to be moving forward and Ihave some other exciting things coming down the

(01:55:23):
pike, so I'll be sharing thatonce I get it. I'm working on
a book, so hopefully when Iget a publish, that'll be coming on
to promote that another time. Maybe. Awesome And your website, My website
is career path Angel dot com.Great and people can reach out to you
via they can do via Instagram orTikTok. And what are your handles.
It's Career Path Angel, Career PathAngel. I'm not at all be in

(01:55:45):
the show notes, but I alwayslike to just get it on air just
in case someone's just listening to it. Yes, Yeah, you have really
great videos. I've been a witnessto many of your speeches. I've been
moved by many of your speeches.You are truly an authentic speaker. I
know that you're going to be sogreat at the speech contest, but you
know and everything that you're doing.So thanks so much for coming on today.
Thank you, I appreciate it.Thank you for listening to the Michael

(01:56:06):
Esposito Show. For show notes videoclips, and more episodes go to Michael
Espositoinc. Dot com backslash podcast.Thank you again to our sponsor, dent
ten Insurance Services helping businesses get theright insurance for all their insurance needs.
Visit dent ten dot io to geta quote that's d N t N dot

(01:56:30):
io and remember when you buy aninsurance policy from Denten, you're giving back
on a global scale. This episodewas produced by Uncle Mike at the iHeart
Studios in Pikeepsie Special thanks to LaraRodrean for the opportunity and my team at
Michael Esposito Inc.

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