Navigating Faith, Vengeance, and Media Manipulation

Send us a text

The assassination of Charlie Kirk has forced many to confront uncomfortable questions about violence, justice, and faith in America today. This raw, unfiltered conversation explores the profound emotional impact such events have on us as individuals and as a society.

When political violence strikes, the natural human impulse toward vengeance collides with deeper spiritual teachings about forgiveness and love. We navigate this tension through personal stories of processing grief, anger, and fear in the aftermath of witnessing someone's death. One host shares how this may have been "the worst day of my life so far," revealing the isolation felt even when surrounded by loved ones who couldn't fully understand the depth of his disturbance.

The discussion examines the biblical framework for understanding justice and punishment, particularly for Christians who must reconcile Christ's teachings about loving enemies with the reality of evil in the world. Can capital punishment be just while still rejecting the celebration of anyone's death? How do we maintain our humanity when confronted with inhumanity?

We also analyze the media landscape surrounding such events, from Jimmy Kimmel's show going on hiatus after controversial comments to sophisticated propaganda designed to manipulate emotions and sow division. Learning to filter information has never been more crucial as false narratives spread faster than truth.

Throughout these difficult topics, we find glimmers of hope. One host shares how the tragedy led him to appreciate his wife more deeply, spending extra time each night holding her with gratitude that "Charlie doesn't get to do that." This reminder to cherish what matters most offers a path forward through troubled times.

Join us for this thought-provoking conversation about finding our way through darkness without becoming what we despise.

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've wondered for years how far Jimmy Kimmel would
have to go to get uh actuallylike hiatus you know like to get
like, hey, we're gonna have aguest uh host for a while and,
uh, looks like he finally wenttoo far and now, uh, his shows

(00:23):
uh in hiatus indefinitely, whichmakes sense because, honestly,
like he was, he's such atwo-faced fraudster and I have
no idea how jimmy kimmel somehowlike greased all the right
palms to land up in politicalcorrect land as like the you
know he was.
He was always like now as alate night host, seen as like

(00:46):
this moral bastion of integrityto like call out others,
people's stuff.
I'm like dude.
This is the same guy that Iused to see on spike tv on the
man show that always opened andclosed every episode with
large-breasted women jumping ontrampolines, yeah, and it was
like the most vulgar like showon.
It was the most vulgar likeregular show on Spike.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
TV.
Oh yeah, and you know, his showstarted the Jimmy Kimmel Live
2003.
No way, I didn't know that it'sbeen too long.
It's been too long since that.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
That's crazy.
I legit thought it started likewhen I was in high school after
like spike tv kind of startedgoing down the drain yeah, the
um.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
So 23 years, good run , good riddance and uh that's
crazy I just I've this wholetime.
I've really never found himfunny over.
He's never been funny, thefunny he's had funny guests the
matt damon feud funny to me.
That's funny, ongoing.
I love an ongoing bit.
For years and decades it fallsaround.
That's funny, you know.
And like he did a couple funviral videos.

(01:55):
Remember that video of the ofthe white girl, skinny white
girl twerking and then the wholeroom catches on fire no it went
viral for like a few months andthen they showed the full clip.
And the full clip is jimmykimmel comes out and puts it out
with a fire extinguisher.
So they were just seeing ifthey could go viral.
Oh really they just.
It was like there's, let's seeif we can make something go
viral, just like post it on arandom channel, and it did

(02:16):
whatever.
It's something that whatever.
But for the I'd say thatthere's two things.
That's two things I enjoyed of23 years of the Kimmel Live and
it's like I just don't think hewas that creative or that funny.
And then, definitely for thelast eight years, it's been one
person, one person alone, whohas kept his show going Trump,

(02:40):
donald Trump, because I meanJimmy Kimmel just is infatuated
with the guy.
I mean he's never going tocomeated with the guy.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I mean he's never gonna come up with.
He was always the worst, whichis saying a lot because, like
there's Jon Stewart, which hasalways been.
Jon Stewart to me has alsonever really been that funny,
but he's a decent interviewerand but Jon Stewart's also been
like insanely, I don't know.
I feel like it was a lot moreobvious with Jon Stewart that
like this is paid for by thegovernment.

(03:06):
Especially, did you ever seethe COVID dance that Jon Stewart
had?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
No, I don't know if I did.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
It was literally the get your vaccination, covid
dance and he had people comingout dressed as vaccines.
And I was like this is the mostfucking bear-level slop
propaganda.
And then in my head I was likethere's somewhere out there
people like clapping along tothis in their home and that's
crazy.
Anyways.
All I said, uh, I alwaysthought he was like probably one

(03:35):
of the worst late night showhosts, so I'm shocked that it
lasts as long as it is, but itseems like he finally went too
far and they're like dude, youjust don't got the ratings to
back up the vitriol that you'resaying and the uh blowback we're
getting from you know, youryour take on the charlie kirk
assassination, so you're doneout of here, which nothing was

(04:00):
lost.
Um, and I will say too, one onelate night show host that I
respect a lot more.
I never really respected a lotof them much, but one that I've
always had a decent amount ofrespect for is actually Jimmy
Fallon.
I know a lot of people can'tstand him because they think
he's got a fake laugh and I knowhe's really struggled with

(04:21):
alcohol.
Some people say he's as mean asEllen, which is hard for me to
believe.
Wow, but I really liked itbecause he's always had jokes
that pick at both sides.
He's kind of Conan, whereeveryone's free game.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
And also dude his back and forth with John
Krasinski, where they prankedeach other off and on for years.
That was one of my favorites towatch.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I enjoyed it.
And Fallon's creative, he'sentertaining, he's fun, he is
actually talented, he is andhe's super talented, like he's a
very talented.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
One of my favorite things I remember as a kid
seeing was the opening where theopening to that late night
episode was him singing Old manwith Neil Young.
Oh yeah, and that was theopening to the.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
That late night episode was him singing old man
with uh neil young oh yeah, andthat was awesome.
But it goes like oh, thatwasn't.
This isn't just like he wasn'tdubbing, right?
Yeah, this is him really doingthis and it's not funny, it's
just cool, like you know.
Like you know, it was like uhum, all those other shows, even
like honestly, like he was greaton this and like letterman and
leno too.
Like, eventually I lumped l Lenointo a little bit of even the

(05:27):
Kimmel stuff as far as, like, hehad some stand-up bits.
Yeah, they were funny.
I think Letterman was a decentinterviewer, but the creativity
that comes out of and the talentfrom Jimmy Fallon I think is
fun and it's been fun for a longtime.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Jimmy Fallon also did a decent amount of skits on his
show too, though Like that's alot of things I think people
forget about.
But I'm pretty sure he it waslike SNL sometimes where like
every night or I don't know oncea week or something, he had
kind of like a skit.
And I remember the one with himand it was Ryan Gos goslin and

(06:04):
justin timberlake and um, who'sthe dude who just shot that
armor on set?
Alec baldwin alec baldwin.
It was the classic thing wherethey have to say like tongue
twisters with coffee and food intheir mouth and he did it
several times with the, you knowthe each of those guests and
stuff, and and it was justreally funny and well done.

(06:25):
I don't know.
To me that was late on TV.
The best one of all time,though, without a doubt, was
freaking Craig.
To me, dude, oh yeah.
Craig the Scottman, yeah, whatwas his last name?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Craig Robinson?
I don't know, it was CraigFerguson, ferguson Dude.
Craig Ferguson, he stillFerguson, ferguson Dude.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Craig Ferguson and he's still like, does stand-up
nowadays, but I still I wouldstay up late just to watch his
because it was so funny and hehad his robot skeleton co-host
named Jeff and they would justbanter back and forth until you
know they were crying on thefloor, laughing.

(07:02):
It was unhinged, you know,because they knew like no one's
still awake right now watchingthis, so we can say whatever we
want, and it was veryentertaining Anyways.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
And here's what Kimmel said.
He said the MAGA gang he saidthis on his show MAGA gang,
desperately trying tocharacterize this kid who
murdered Charlie Kirk asanything other than one of them
and doing everything they can toscore political points from it.
The late night host alsocriticized flags being flown at
half mast in honor of charliekirk and mocked the president's
reaction to the shooting.
Um, he said uh, this is not howan adult grieves the murder of

(07:32):
someone he calls a friend.
This is how a four-year-oldmourns a goldfish, said jimmy
kimmel, as, uh, he often mockstrump in his monologues, so he
just couldn't help himself.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
And uh well that's honestly such a crazy take, dude
.
Like because it's not liketrump did it, because charlie
kirk was just a celebrity, likehe did it because, like charlie
kirk was like a friend of histhat like helped him pick out
his cabinet like you could.
You could honestly say thatthere's a good share of the

(08:04):
reason the country is what it istoday is because Charlie Kirk
had a voice in Trump's ear andthat's crazy.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, and the Someone at ABC had to have been just
hoping and waiting for a goodexcuse to can him to like, if
his show was crushing, theywouldn't have done it, they
wouldn't, they'd cover it,they'd and they'd see.
They, he it's.
You know.
They always say indefinitely,we'll see if it's all canceled

(08:33):
or not.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know but that's also why, um the John?
I think Oliver's still on, butJon Stewart is no more.
They ended his show because ofbudget and it just wasn't making
any money.
I think the Seth one is overtoo.
What's his name?
Seth Meyers I think Seth Meyersis done as well.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Really, I can't remember.
I thought he was still going.
He might still be going.
I could totally be misspeaking.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
It's not like anyone watches it All the things are so
ridiculous, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Did you see, uh, bill maher's clip of like the day
after, whatever he was talkingwith the singer from smashing
pumpkins?
What's?
Is it maher or mayor, mayor, I,I don't know?
No, but um, but he was like hewas pretty upset.
He was just like he was likepouring he's just like pouring
this giant glass of whiskey andtalking to is it Billy

(09:25):
Curringham, the lead guy fromSmashing Pumpkins?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
let me just look real time with Bill Muir, charlie
Kirk he has Ben Shapiro ontalking about it four days ago.
I don't know, is the SmashingPumpkins guy a white dude?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, white Kind of looks like he's not really a
rock star, but he is.
I can't remember his name?
Did he have nice things to say?
Billy Corgan is the guy, butBill Marges, he's pouring this
big old glass of whiskey andhe's like I'm going to drink
more today than just sat in that.

(10:07):
Who sat in that chair like wewere sitting and was just like
shot and oh, I see here, yeah,and he's like, he's like, and
then he goes and then, in billfashion, he's like and for any
of you out there, likecelebrating this, just like f
you like I can't, I can't dealwith this bill more.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Billy bill maher said that or billy corgan bill maher
said that.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
What was corgan's reaction?
He was just sitting there likeyeah, that's messed up you know
which I feel like one thing I'venoticed this week I don't know
if you've seen it which would bethe men who I want to be like.
Watching their reactions tothis fucked up dude is well, not

(10:45):
no, in a good, the guys who Ilike the like this is showing
who the real men are.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
I mean sure, yeah, I get.
Well.
I was saying like the men youwant to be like, which, in my
mind, makes me immediately thinkof Jocko and.
I saw Jocko's reaction andJocko was pretty fucked up.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Jocko was messed up.
Yeah, you're messed up.
Yes, yes, like jaco, yes wastorn up.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Dude, I'll tell you what theo theo was messed up.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
He was messed up.
The um the guy.
Uh, it's one of the cowboysfrom yellowstone, the old man
he's.
He's like he's a real cowboy andhe's just oh, yeah, yeah and
he's like he's just like drivingin his truck and he's like this
isn't the real america, likeall the real americans know who
his truck and he's like thisisn't the real America.
All the real Americans know whoyou are.
Watching the awakening ofrighteous anger in people who

(11:47):
I'd consider to be real men ormen who I want to emulate, was
encouraging to see, kind of abit of a wake-up call or a surge
or things.
And it's not men calling forviolence.
It's not men, like you know,being um uh, ridiculous one way.
That's just like men who arelike solid in their belief of
who they are, who they want tobe, how they see the world, and
like really who are calling forunity and peace.
And the guys who are callingfor this are guys who could, who
you don't want to be gettingviolent with.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, a lot of them are dudes who would be on the uh
the war council yeah, there waslike a civil war.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
You know what I mean?
yeah, they get, they getcontracted it's the guys you,
you really don't want to getviolent with who are saying
that's not how we do this, andso seeing those guys come out
and speak out and kind of, it'sa bit of an awakening to, and
like, younger men as well andstuff, and it's just like I've
taken some encouragement fromthat too.
Just to go like, when you seeyou, if you go down into the

(12:36):
social portal, you're gonna beum, you're gonna think this
world is all over with you know,and it's just not the case.
when you do listen to some ofthese, like these sound men, you
know, and it's like, oh yeah,there's a good reminder of those
things.
And to see like men who aren'tvery emotive being emotional

(12:59):
about this was also like itaffirmed my emotions that day,
the way that we felt when werecorded our last podcast you
know I haven't listened to itall the way through yet I'm back
.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
But like did we even like speculate?
I don't even remember usspeculating about the shooter's
identity, really that much otherthan just I remember it more
like just us trying to processthe facts and information we
didn't get into a lot of the ofthe stuff we normally would do,
of like I don't want to say likekind of like the this or that

(13:35):
conspiracy or how did thishappen?

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Or like we broke down some of the stuff about because
he wasn't caught yet at thattime we didn't know who it was.
We had no idea who it was youknow and we did talk a little
bit about it if it could havebeen like a professional or not,
and those sorts of things werealready coming out that time.
But we mostly just processedthrough what we were feeling.
And what we were feeling was asadness and also I'd call it, a

(14:01):
righteous anger.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
I don't even know if I can say I was angry yet and I,
I, that's true, I'd say.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
the next day I was trying to figure out what was
going on, cause I was, I went to, I was, I went to.
Uh, I played in our worshipband the next night.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
And like while we were playing through those, it's
funny on an actual Sundaymorning.
For me, like, playing on aSunday morning usually isn't
very like worshipful.
I was trying to like hit theright notes, yeah, but when we
rehearse, for me that isworshipful to just be with them
and like singing these songs andlike we were singing songs and
stuff and and those songs kindof hit harder when something
like like this has happened.

(14:36):
And so the I was working throughall these, like this ball of
emotions I had.
And then afterwards we alwaysdo like the band checks in, like
how are you doing?
Like how's what's going on inyour life and stuff, and um, I
was like the last person to talkand I just was like I'm, like
I'm, I'm mad, like I'm, like I'm, I want to.

(14:56):
I want to wage a war, like inmy man flesh, like, and in
myself, like I want to.
Um, I want to war againstsomething, I want to war against
evil and I want to take thatout how was, how's, the reaction
from the other band members?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
well it's not all of our band members are no, I would
say very they're classic bandmembers.
They're not very masculinepeople, right all the time right
, they weren't.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
And one thing I did say too I.
I started off part of this bysaying I did say too I.
I started off part of this bysaying I was like I listen, I
watch a lot of videos of peopledying and they were like kind of
like they're josh, I'm likewell, you know, listen, I'm like
secure team stuff like thingslike this we like, like we
engage with.
But this video of watching thisman die like really got to me a
lot and it has a like awakened,uh, um, something in me that

(15:45):
feels feels very frustrating,like as a person, I think lots
of guys in our position feellike their agency and voice has
been taken away.
Um, because on some of theseplatforms you can't express your
opinion or who you are, whatyou believe, without you know
docs are cancelled, or um, orjust for fear of you know docs
are canceled, or um, or just forfear of you know, losing a
friend because they, they won'tengage with you.

(16:07):
And um, I was like I want tofight evil and there is evil in
this world and I know there'sevil in this world and we saw
evil in this world and I want torid the world of this and in my
flesh, the way to do that is to, and in my flesh the way to do
that is through violence.
And I was like, but my weapontonight has been like, and it

(16:31):
sounds like I don't know if thismight sound like, I don't know
what it sounds like, it mightsound a little gay, might sound
cringe, might sound cringe.
But I was like my weapon islike that bass guitar over there
, like that's been my object ofwar, that that I am waging
against evil tonight and throughthe worship in my soul and in

(16:53):
my body and playing out thesethings, because if you do
believe, as a believer, thatit's not a physical fight that
we're in, you do have to engageit in some of those ways.
And it was a healthy outlet to.
It's a lot healthier thanviolence, exactly, and maybe
more effective in some ways too,to like just release it through

(17:15):
through other means.
And so, anyways, that, um,that's what I was.
I was, I was feeling this thingin myself of of anger, and and
I was really I'm very angryabout the way that you know,
I've seen so many people reactin such kind of disgusting ways
to it and uh, it's uhdisheartening and makes you lose

(17:37):
faith in humanity.
But then also throughout therest of that week watching many
other, not just men, it waswomen too, but for me, like
watching other men react to thisin a way that they were
awakened and hate evil and theywant to combat evil in this
world, and seeing that standingup that way and watching videos

(18:00):
of.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
did you watch the sam hyde video?
This is you.
I didn't fucked me up.
Oh yeah, I know I'm saying thef word a lot, but it's because
I've legit been.
I will say this and I this isno exaggeration I do think that
was the worst day of my life sofar.
Like I think about the shittiestday I had in law enforcement.
I think about the shittiest dayI had in high school.

(18:23):
I think that was the most upset, alone and maybe even afraid
I've ever felt in my life.
And there's a lot of ways to goLike I felt alone because, not
that I didn't have anyone totalk to about it, but like the

(18:43):
disturbed, the level ofdisturbed I felt, and my wife
was trying to like comfort meand she just didn't know what to
say.
That made me feel very alone.
Yeah, because it made me feellike there was not a way I could
help her understand what I welllike what I was feeling, and

(19:03):
that like words were failing meand like body language was
failing and I felt like there'snot anything I can do to let her
know how I need help right now.
And even processing with youmade me feel like I could like
go to sleep.
When we talked about it, I feltlike I was going to be able to
go to sleep that night now, butI still felt very alone when we

(19:24):
were talking about it.
I felt like I was going to beable to go to sleep that night
now, but I still felt very alone.
When we were talking about it,I still felt like on an Island
of like.
Why do I feel so disturbed bythis Cause?
I think I said it, probably Idon't know half a dozen times,
but like I was not a religiousfollower of this guy, I wasn't a
turning point USA collegestudent by any stretch, right,

(19:45):
but seeing that wickedness,seeing the evil and seeing it
just raw, unfiltered, uncensored, and recognizing not just that,
but then I think I think it wasthe recognition that, like, my
country is gone because 56% ofthe like Democrat voting party

(20:07):
registered Democrats believethat violence is acceptable.
Um and again, for people whodon't know the math, they did a
survey of registered Democratvoters.
56% of them said that violenceis an acceptable means to

(20:27):
resolving, uh, our, ourdisagreements politically.
Um and when asked like would itbe acceptable to assassinate
Trump or Elon Musk, theyanswered yes.
So that's just like I had seenthat and I thought that's just a
poll, it's probably inaccurate,they're probably polling the
most radical people in NewJersey.

(20:49):
And then you see all the like,worship of the violence and
glorification of it andrejoicing, and then you're like,
oh my gosh, it might be real.
It might be real.
Lord, please, god, have mercy,help me, be real, lord, please,
god, have mercy, um, help me.

(21:09):
And uh, I think that's why Ifelt so alone that they couldn't
process and explain it.
And I think that loneliness andfear, fear of not like, oh my
god, is someone gonna shoot me,but just fear of like, damn like
we're at this big to turn offwe're here right now and this
can't be swept under the rug and, in fact, like is this just
going to embolden everyone, likeon every side?

(21:33):
like embolden retaliation andembolden like, hey, it's okay to
do this because, like, somepeople are doing it and they're
getting celebrated, that's thething, right, like when's the
last time we saw someone, likeon this kind of scale,
celebrating a school shooter?
No one celebrates schoolshooters.
No one ever glorifies, like tothis degree, the columbine

(21:54):
shooting or something.
Of course, there's like thosefringe weirdo cult groups, like
10 of them, yeah, that are likeI just love reading about this
stuff right and I love I wouldlike to be them one day and I
have the same hoodie they wore.
It's like that's always going toexist.
The fringe less than 1% Right,but, dude, it was well over 1%

(22:14):
celebrating on social mediaCharlie Kirk's death and
rejoicing over it, posting memesabout it, and, uh, I got to
imagine there's a lot of peoplechemically who are like, oh my
God, they might praise me oneday, they might worship me if I
just do the next one.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
And I think that was the fear that I felt.
Right, it was like this.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
This rejoicing is so dangerous for those who need
that little bit of push andenthusiasm to go and do
something Cause, yeah, it'sbeing accepted, it's being
tolerated, and for me, what Icause, I felt similar to, and
one thing I was saying when Iwas talking to those those
people that night, I was like,when I was saying that I was at

(22:55):
this righteous anger to me, Ialso said I don't use the word
like traumatized lightly, like Ireally actually I hate that
word and I think, because Ithink it's been so watered down,
I was like I think I'm the.
It's like there's a traumatizingfor me to watch this in some
ways and I and what I'mstruggling, what I was

(23:15):
struggling with too that I toldthese people was I was like I am
.
If people of people who know meam pretty steady, I'm pretty
like my emotions are in check.
I'm, I'm typically unshaken bythings and you know, and these

(23:36):
are things that that not, theseare things not even that I knew
of myself.
But what people have spoken tome that they see in me Right
myself, but what people havespoken to me that they see in me
right, yeah, and so to be likeif I'm used to being something
steadfast or something that'sunshakable in many cases, and as
somebody who's been told thatothers rely on for that to.

(23:58):
I got shaken, and to be shakenwas is a uncomfortable place for
anybody, probably, but for meit just was like somewhat
foreign to be like whoa, yeah,dude, again, like I can't think
of any time.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
I've seen quite a few .
I've seen a couple of peopledie and I've seen a few more
people dead and none of themaffect me that way, not one,
mm-hmm.
I don't even think I had a, afamily member death that had
shaken me as much as that hadlike that really unnerved me so

(24:36):
much.
And I will say this, I can sayit with full truth and honesty
man, there's not an ounce ofanything in me that wants like
retribution of vengeance.
Like I don't even have like asuper strong, like I don't have
a very powerful emotion thatlike we should even execute his

(25:01):
killer.
I'm not saying that weshouldn't, right.
I think that is like very wellcould be a fair and just
punishment for, you know,whoever was associated in the
assassination, and it might evenbe the one that is like most
needed because of all theglorification to deter someone
from doing something similar.
But I saw some people on the, Isaw some videos taken off of

(25:28):
Instagram and Twitter and stuffposted on Reddit.
Because I don't have any ofthose things, I just have Reddit
, because I figure, if I'm goingto do any social media, I
should just keep my finger onthe pulse of the worst.
You know, and these videosposted of, like, some people who
you know, they say they'reconservatives and they got their
MAGA hat on or number 47 hat,and there's this one big boy

(25:52):
driving around his truck sayingI'm sick of it, I'm sick of it
and you know what, I'm readySomeone say where and we'll
start going door to door findingthem and we'll start like
rounding them up and it's time,time.
It's time we get them out.
Like, if you're trans, you'reout.
If you're fucking gay, you'reout.

(26:12):
You know it was.
It was just like one of thosethings and I was, I just was
watching it and like it was like, look, they're just as extreme
and I'm like, hey, dude, as aconservative, like report this
guy, like someone, call thepolice, if you recognize who
this is, let them know.
This guy's planning on goingdoor to door.
Like I certainly don't wantthis fucking dude out there.
If this is what he's thinkinghe's about to do when he gets
home from work and if he's notdoing it and he was just doing

(26:35):
it for social media clout, lethim tell the cops that.
But, like, if you know wherethis is, if you have his
instagram handle, report it tothe police and like a lot of
people like, well, that's so,it's so double standard, like
I'm like find me a conservativeperson who thinks like this is
cool, like this is an extremistand we like we're fine with
reporting those people too.

(26:55):
Um, no one's gonna becelebrating this dude if he goes
and does that, and I thinkthat's the thing where I'm at.
You know what I mean?
I'm like I have no desire forvengeance and, in fact, I'm kind
of disgusted by, like theknee-jerk reaction of like we
need to go and take it to themnow.
I'm like and maybe it's justbecause I know we talked about
this last week, but no onefucking knows how bad war is

(27:19):
dude no one has a remotely clearidea of how insanely awful war
in the US would be.
Yeah, even people who've beento war they wouldn't
necessarily— Generations don'tknow what it's like to be at war
in the US.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (27:35):
I mean With ourselves .
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
They weren't really at war when they were deployed
no offense.
I know some of you are going totake offense to that, but you
know what I'm talking about.
You didn't get shot at.
You didn't have to worry abouthostages being used in front of
you on a daily basis.
You didn't.
You know you weren't in Ukraine.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Right, right, or like , or doing it in your home,
either you know, like, where younext to your family and stuff,
but, um, that's where we're.
I was saying this before westarted recording, but and I
think to like the piece of.
You know if there, if he'sexecuted that like the, we'll

(28:13):
see the measure of.
Is it going to be?
Is the favor going to bereturned with disgusting um
celebration of death again andfrom from the right on this?
and I think, like for me, Iwould say yeah, I think he, if
guilty, can and should be put todeath um yeah, I agree, I agree

(28:37):
, and that's a fittingpunishment but celebrated the
day he's gone no, yeah, I don'tthink we should be having
parties, or I think it's a sadday.
Yeah, I think it's a sad day,but it's a just day.
Yeah, is what I would call that.
It's sad, but it's just but,but it's not, it's not uh, but
it's still.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
It's just still sad there's a lot of mockery, too,
going on right now, because alot of people have said that.
A lot of people have said like,hey, we should like now, like
now that they found of.
People have said like, hey, weshould like now, like now that
they found him, and all thatstuff, like we should be praying
for him by name to come to knowjesus and be saved, because
that's what charlie would want.
And then, there's a lot ofmockery of they're like people.
You know everything be like.

(29:18):
Oh, because they found out he'sa fucking white kid from a
mormon family, they want to prayfor his soul.
If he was a black or brown kidfrom the streets with no dad,
you'd bet they'd be saying liketo hang him high.
And I'm like no, like what?
Like when was the last time?
I don't know anyone who'ssaying like now.
Granted, I'm not saying there'snot racist in this country,

(29:40):
right but, I don't know anyonewho even for like what is it?
Irina Vyankov?

Speaker 2 (29:48):
The model who was killed in the train.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Ukrainian refugee.
I don't know anyone who waslike man groveling Like we need
to hang that man.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
We need to hang him up.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
I don't know anyone.
I know people who were like weneed to catch that guy and they
caught him and they're like allright now he needs to be tried
and found guilty and sentencedto death, like he needs to get
executed, like what he did wascold-blooded, unprovoked murder
and that would be justice forher.
But I don't know anyone who'slike man.

(30:18):
All these fucking people arethe same and we got to hang them
up.
No one's like that.
And so when they're doing thatstraw man argument for you know
Charlie Kirk's killer and sayinglike, oh, because he's white,
we're calling to pray for him.
Like no, it's because who hekilled?
Because who he killed is whythere's the response.
Because a lot of the people whofollowed Charlie are believers.

(30:41):
And what's one of the most likeuniversal truths of
Christianity?
That you're called to reapcoals on your enemy's head by
prayer and love.
So it's no surprising to me thatyou're going to find some I'll
put in air quotes extremeChristians whose first knee jerk
reaction to this is going to benot, yeah, we should kill this

(31:02):
dude and we should piss on hisbody.
They're going to say we shouldlove him and pray for them
because that, will you know,ultimately perhaps lead them to
christ and redemption.
And then it's also like whatcharlie would would have wanted,
and I, I think that's like.
I think that's a totally fairthing to say.

(31:23):
I also don't think it's wrongto say like, hey, like, justice
is also something that'simportant in the same context,
like we can, we can pray forsomeone in their salvation,
while also not condoning whatthey did and accepting, like
there's consequences for actions.
Um, I don't know, I don't knowwhat your thoughts are on that?

Speaker 2 (31:47):
No, I definitely agree, because we have something
that gets discounted oroverlooked or misunderstood
about.
The Christian faith is, ormaybe even misunderstood by a
lot of people who are trying tobe Christians.
I don't know.
Is we believe in redemption andthat none, nobody is too far

(32:11):
gone for that?
Yep, it's.
It's like that is a, it's a,it's a, it's a tenant, it's a,
it's a, it's.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's a thing that we stake our stake, our whole thing
on honestly, I don't like it'dbe easier if I had a list of
people that was in scripturethat was like, yeah, but like
these ones there's no saving, sojust you get you could do
whatever you want.
Like because it's, I fullybelieve it.
I fully believe it with you.
But it is easier if I like, ifsomeone's like, yeah, they, uh,

(32:41):
they're a child rapist and belike oh well, like you know,
biblically speaking, god saysthat they'll never know jesus.
so like I guess we could get ridof them, I don't't have to pray
for them.
You know what I mean?
It's one of those things that,like you're, the truth is
unfortunate in that, like well,the truth is unfortunate for me
in my own sin is what I'm sayingis that I have to actually

(33:04):
truly see that person for whothey're made, in the image of
God, and do my best to show themChrist's love.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
And then the and the.
The beautiful flip side to itis that is the hope we all cling
to as broken, sinful people,right, and so it's like the and
people point out the Bible,bible's full of, just like all
your leaders are like murderersand rapists, and you know, and
uh, thieves, you know the, thekind of the big dogs we like to

(33:32):
put up there.
You know that old king davidand noah and saul and paul, and
you know, uh, we have um, umsolomon, and like abraham,
whatever there's, there's,there's, there's, and that's
just barely breaching thesurface on names of guys in the
Bible who are revered, who alsodid bad stuff, who also were

(33:56):
sinners, who maybe did more badstuff than the guy who killed
Charlie Kirk, that's.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I'll say it I don't like that.
You said that.
Right, I don't think it's wrong, right, I don't like that.
You said that, right, I don'tthink it's wrong.
Right, I don't like that.
You said that, dude.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
It's like you know, I mean we, but we place our faith
in the redemption of mankindand the story unfolding and as
man, we are not ultimate judgesfor eternity Now here in our
flesh.
Yes, sometimes you've got tothrow a rope over a tree, and I
believe in that oh shit.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
And let's pick a different form of murder.
Well, that one sounds tooracially charged.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Let me let me also.
It's.
Here's the deal.
It has nothing to do with that100, it's just I know that, I
know people don't know that, butfor me, like old westerns, like
basically, is what is what Ibasically base my like entire um
, like jake stealing horses?
Exactly, get him hung up.

(34:59):
It's unfortunate and and thethe rope over the tree thing why
I say it is I do believe in dueprocess and I do believe in
innocent until proven guilty.
I also believe in people whensometimes they're guilty and
it's time to do it here.
Now it's done.

(35:20):
And that's a whole otherconversation on maybe where our
legal system's gotten to, and insome ways rightfully so,
because there are innocentpeople on death row in these
horrible things if you takeindividualist cases from it, but
speaking generally, there's inour flesh as we walk this world.

(35:40):
There are man's laws and someof those laws, if broken,
require that your life is nowforfeit.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, yeah, were we recording when we talked about
laws if broken, require thatyour life is now forfeit?
Yeah, yeah, I, were werecording when we talked about
flesh simulators, capitalpunishment episode, or we?

Speaker 2 (35:56):
just was that the shit I can't, was that in our
last episode if it was, I didn't, I didn't like, I said I
haven't finished the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
But anyways, all that said, if you haven't listened
to it or watch it, go watch it.
Flesh simulator we wererecording.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Think we were recording because we were
talking about, but but we could,we could the three, the three
versions of punishment that hetalked about.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
Well, yeah, and I mean, if I don't even think we
need to go over again, peoplecan watch it for themselves.
But it really is where I'm likespending a lot of time and
thought lately I'm just like man, you have to have punishment,
and like I think I've alwaysfelt that way as a Christian,

(36:37):
and especially even beforeBeliever, I felt that way way
more so.
But I think now I'm reallyspending more of my day, every
single day, wrestling with likethere has to be consequences for
actions and there always isconsequences for actions.
And sometimes you don't getcaught and sometimes the

(37:00):
consequences are not what yousuffer but what someone else
does.
But for there to be a societyand for that society to function
, it is required there beconsequences to actions and it
is required that the wholeentire populace is aware of that
.
And this is one of the reasonstoo.
I was reading an essay, gosh.

(37:23):
I wish I could remember it, butit was an essay on why a true
Christian theocracy can't workbecause a truly Christian nation
would have no punishment.
There would be crime but nopunishment.
Um, and it would be, I think.
I think it's very true.
Like you I've, I find it veryhard to justify punishment

(37:43):
outside of like miraculouspunishment if you go by the
example set forth by thefounders of the new church that,
like the apostles, like find methe last time an apostle
punished someone and in the newtestament debatably.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Ananias and sapphira wasn't, wasn't even an apostle,
right?
I know you said that's whatthat's miraculous Holy Spirit
punishment.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
I think the most close example is truly just
rebuke and excommunication for atime we just see that there's a
couple times where people turntheir back on their fellow
brothers or sisters in Christand then they're kind of name
dropped in a letter of like hey,avoid this person.

(38:31):
Like they they can't be trusted, but that's it.
And then, like the rest of itis like god will deal with them
fairly and justly.
Um, and it's it's crazy toobecause, like, at the same time,
you have the new testament'scase of like non-punishment,
like no consequences, because wehave the letter to uh philemon

(38:55):
that is to return to his masterfor having ran away and that his
master also be merciful withthem and not punish him.
And so you could even arguethat, like there is because of,
um, the example set by the newtestament, like church, that
there is not actually a a trueway that a, a christian nation

(39:17):
today, could punish peoplejustly.
Um, if we're going by you know,new covenant and example set
forth, uh, and that's exactly, Ithink, why the church can
operate and succeed in like anyother governing society.
It's like because the church'sobjective is not to be a global

(39:39):
name, like a global government,like the whole point of it is
the soul, like the, theindividual relationship and soul
and reconciliation with god atan individual level, and then
you move on to the next one andthe next one and you have the
unified faith of.
Yet there's consequences for mysin and the consequences are
Jesus' death on the cross, andthat is the ultimate consequence

(40:05):
, and I recognize the severityof that and that it should be me
on that cross, and that is anact of love.
And so, going forward, yes, usejudicial prudence on who you
associate with and don't just berecklessly foolish.
In fact, if there's peopletrying to kill you, maybe act

(40:28):
crazy or play dead it worked fora lot of the other apostles but
there's never a time where wesee the apostles take vengeance
for their persecution, right,and there's never even a time
where we see them take vengeanceor retaliate in a way after
Jesus leaves them, for anythingthat isn't considered

(40:49):
persecution.
And who knows, maybe there werecases of it and we just don't
have the letters for it.
Maybe they were like yeah, youknow, let's be aware of our
community here in Corinth, butif those guys are trying to rob
you, not because you're aChristian, but they're just
trying to rob you, yeah, you cankill them Self-defense dog, but
that was never written in anyof the letters.

(41:10):
So we really don't like haveanything that like says that.
Um, now I am speaking partly outof one side of my my mouth,
because I also fully believelike God.
Romans 12,.
God has appointed governmentsto exist over us for a time, for

(41:35):
a reason Like.
He knows what will come intofruition and he knows who will
rule and what the governingauthority is going to be.
Um and so, therefore, you are abeliever in a place in time
that God knew was going to be,like where you were going to be,
and so, therefore, operate inthat place in time for the

(41:56):
gospel.
Uh, I don't really thinkthere's going to be a Christian
nation one day you know I mean.
Well, you know, I do think thereis in Revelations, right, but
that's kind of the one, becauseif there's a Christian nation
you don't really have arequirement to go out and about
and move underneath the force ofthat government to try to

(42:19):
spread the gospel.
So anyways, that's kind of likea side tangent rant of capital
punishment consequences and alsohow I personally reconcile that
in my own faith while alsoaccepting, like I'm a believer
in a world that is not aChristian world, and so it makes

(42:39):
sense that there areconsequences to actions and I
can accept the consequences toactions at the same time wanting
to pray for the individual soulto be saved.
And that's also I reconcilekind of the earlier topics that
we were talking about, about,like it's very hard to pray for

(43:00):
the pedophile.
I don't like that, but I can doit.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Maybe even called to.
I haven't felt called to it yet.
I know.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Anyways, what is your thoughts on that?
I was just kind of going off ona rant there, but I am
interested on, like yourinterpretation or things.
Sometimes I'm not aware if I'mtalking on my butt.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
No, well, I think that for like evidence in the
bible, of like especially newtestament, of that is, um,
exactly what you just said issomething that actually I
wrestle with it in myself tooaround especially, let's go like
like with capital punishment,for instance, which is playing

(43:50):
God, taking a man's life.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Good old Romans.
13.
Every one of us wants to be theagent.
None of us really Rarely is aChristian, the agent of God to
execute wrath right and it's umthe.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
It is, I think, hard to reconcile, or maybe, in some
cases, unreconcilable to supportpunishment of people and call
yourself a christian.
I don't know, it is something.
It is something that I do workthrough because I think that
it's people would say you'rehypocritical, right, which is

(44:34):
like well, I'm just still tryingto figure out what exactly that
looks like here and I thinksome of the.
So there are some of theexamples too there where you go
okay, like for, like Ananias andSapphira, that was doled out by
God.
That was some holy holypunishment right and it's like,
um, scary at the and so is thatis.

(44:59):
Is, you know, justice?
Only gods.
Ultimately, yes, in the hereand now world, I don't know what
this looks like.
Um, one of the most perplexingthing verses for me, um, and I
might talk about on this podcasta while ago is christ on the
way to the garden, sell yourcloak?
He's like, well, the, the sellyour cloak is one, yeah, but

(45:21):
then also he's you know, he,there's two things.
One is when christ sends outthe disciples.
He says there's two things.
One is when Christ sends outthe disciples.
He says to basically go out buttake a sword with you, and
you're like sell your cloak, buya sword when you leave, okay,
so Christ commanded them to armthemselves as they went out to
spread the gospel.
So that's one.

(45:43):
Also, at the same time, for mein a very, very similar vein
would be Jesus tells Peter tograb the swords.
Peter grabs the swords on theway to the garden and, like it's
been heating up politically,they know that they're looking
for Jesus, they know that peoplewant Jesus dead and they're

(46:04):
going to go pray in the garden.
It's Jesus's last night onearth before he rises again and
he's told to Peter grab theseswords.
So Peter grabs the two swords,now fast forward to in the
garden, peter's hanging out andsome guards come to take Jesus

(46:28):
away.
So obviously and if I was PeterI think it would be very
obvious why I was told to bringthe sword it's time to use the
sword, right, the armed guys arecoming to take Jesus away, my
leader.
So he swings that swordFortunately for the servant, he
misses and just gets the ear.
And then Jesus tells him tostop and he's like am I supposed

(46:55):
to use this sword or not?
Now, jesus, in that moment, didpick up the ear of the servant
and heal it back onto him, right?
So did Jesus tell him to bringthe sword just to glorify God
further in front of these guards?
I don't know, but and it couldbe as simple as that, but it's,

(47:16):
there's, there's the Christ hascommanded his disciples and two
different examples in scriptureto take a sword with them.
I'd assume at some point you'resupposed to use it.
He does not give any furtherinstructions, point, you're
supposed to use it.
He does not give any furtherinstructions on when or how to
use it, even with the childpedophiles which you could go um

(47:37):
, I guess the child pedophilesis redundant.
Not that a child pedophile isjust.
Is that a kid pedophile?
Sorry, but when it comes topedophiles, I think that the
verse most applicable for themis you know, jesus says if
anybody harms these children,it's better that he tie a

(47:59):
millstone around his neck, casthimself into the ocean.
At which point, I think, doeshe say that he should tie a
millstone around his own neck?
Or does he say you should tie amillstone around his own neck?
Or does he say you should tie amillstone?

Speaker 1 (48:09):
around his neck.
No, it's hard.
It depends on the translationbecause I've read several.
I did a study on the verse it'slike.
Is this the only verse thatcondones suicide Right?
Or is this a verse thatcondones capital punishment for
someone who diddles children?
And I've seen translations thatare essentially always says it

(48:30):
is better for him to have righta millstone tied around his neck
and be cast into the sea thanto than to harm one of these,
yeah, but then there's alsotranslation.
the first half is still the same, pretty much, or interpretation
.
I'll say the interpretation isstill better for him to have a

(48:51):
millstone tied to his neck andhe cast himself into the sea
Right, so there's both there.
Either way, it doesn't reallymatter who ties the millstone.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Right, but either way , it's either saying it's Jesus'
way of speaking, like how hewould say gouge your eye out,
saying it would have been betterfor you if you had just killed
yourself.
Yeah, maybe because of uh,what's coming for you and get
Hannah.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Or two?
Um, the guy's supposed to do ithimself still.
So you still don't get to useeither way.
You got to use a millstone andnot a sword.
So clearly we have no directionon when or how to use the sword

(49:37):
now, except for in ephesians,the only sword we get to use
that we're that we are.
There's one sword we're allowedto use and it says use it.
It's the sword of the spirit.
Other than that I thought you'regonna pick a different
ephesians verse, but yeah.
But other than that, we don'thave any go-no-go criteria for
sword usage as Christians that Iknow of.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Well, there's like the Old Testament.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Right, which I was actually going to bring up,
which would be I think there isone of the stark differences
culturally between Christiansand Israelis and Israeli Jews is
kind of and the they get to usethat old book, we only get to

(50:17):
use the new book, and if you useit wrong, you just use the old
book to justify what you do.
When Christ called us to thenew covenant, so like basing our
laws out of you know Abrahamic,or was it covenants or laws,
while they were set by God, theyweren't set for us necessarily.

(50:37):
They've been fulfilled inChrist and obviously we're
getting into some stuff herethat takes a couple semesters of
classes to really break downhow broad this can go.
But all that to say, I don'tknow when I get to use the sword
yeah, I mean, I've always, I'vealways erred on the uh versus.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Essentially.
There's the one in romansthat's like agent of the
government, what's that mean?
Driver's license, make you anagent of the government, what?
Like you know, like you getreal finicky with it, right, um?
And then there's also the versein exodus about it's not a, it's
not necessarily, I would say, alaw, but it's a right.

(51:28):
You could say it's a law Iguess you would call, you'd
probably say it's, it's wrappedup in the Abrahamic law.
But the condition is there's aconditional time when it's like
when you're justified in killingsomeone their blood's on your
hands versus not.
And I think that just as Godwas right and righteous, then he

(51:51):
is now, and just as that law orthat condition was seen fit and
righteous in his eyes, then itis now too.
I don't think it should be usedfor justification for
Christians going out and killinganyone by any means, because
that's, of course, not evenremotely the condition of that

(52:13):
Abrahamic law in the first place.
Right, and that's not thecondition we see in Romans right
now.
It's made very clear that whenChristians are being persecuted,
we are to essentially let thatbe the greatest testimony for

(52:40):
Christ.
So if you guys have any debateon this right, I would encourage
all of you to read Jesus Freaksand read it in a place where
you can sit down and cry,because it's an insanely massive
account and I think they'relike up to like five books now.
But it's all just true storiesof people who were martyred for
the faith.
That will move you andchallenge you in like, your view

(53:11):
of like.
When is it right for a Christianto use violence to defend
themselves or others?
Versus when are we called fortruly the purpose Christ put us
on this earth, which is totestify about him and his love
and God's love?
Um, and I kind of pretty muchhave always erred on if someone
is trying to kill me out ofpersecution of my faith, I'm
called to be a martyr.
I'm called to praise Christ asI'm murdered and to pray for my

(53:38):
persecutors.
If they are just trying to killme because they want my shit or
they're psycho, I'm going tokill them.
So that's kind of that's whereI've always rested in and I've
prayed a lot about it.
Spoken to some pastors, I evendid like the call in a couple of
times to a couple of differentpastors on Grace FM, oh yeah,

(54:02):
and asked them it just for theirthoughts, and all of them
pretty much had the exact sameresponse to that and I've prayed
about it and I've decidedthat's where I'm good, okay With
resting on that and I'm likeI've pretty much just operated
under that going forward.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
No, I agree with that .
You know general set of rules.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Now, if someone comes to our church and plans to
start shooting up our church?
Like as being person, yeah, andplans to start shooting up our
church as being personal.
Yeah, they're like.
I hate Christians.
I'm going to shoot this churchup.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
It doesn't fall under your persecution guidelines.
It does.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
It does technically, but I'm still going to shoot
them.
I'm still going to make themtake the body room temperature
challenge, the room temperaturechallenge, and I'll sort it out
with God afterwards.
So it is a difficult dichotomyto navigate but at the end of

(55:02):
the day, that's part of likebeing a Christian and resting in
the Holy Spirit to guide youall.
That said man.
Being a Christian and restingin the Holy Spirit to guide you

(55:26):
All that said man.
We talked about a lot of that,a lot of these guys, this guy's
videos Professor Jiang JiangJiaqing I don't know, it's so
hard sometimes to not say itFrench when it's a Chinese name
Professor Jiang J-I-A-N-G andthen Zhuqin X-U-E-Q-I-N.

(55:52):
So I've been seeing a lot ofhis YouTube videos and they're
pretty inflammatory.
They're like always talkingabout like collapse of a society
, um, the end of the westernworld, uh, they're, and they're
all like classroom stuff wherehe's got a whiteboard behind him

(56:13):
and he looks like he'srecording while answering
questions.
Does have any pupils in theroom with.
The pupils are always chineseaccented speaking english in the
room.
Well, you never see them, um,but he always almost releases
them right on time this likehour-long lecture, right before

(56:34):
something relevant to thelecture occurs and, uh, you know
what, like, paint me aconspiracy theorist.
But maybe the chinese just haveenough data collected and
information that they can kindof predict when something's
happening.
And they got enough, uh, youknow, spies out there informing
them of what other nations areplanning or doing.

(56:54):
Um, so they can kind of betimely with these things.
But he really tries to come offas that he is a professor that
has these degrees.
But when I look him up online,he's got a Bachelor of Arts in
English Literature from YaleCollege.

(57:15):
This isn't on Yale's website,this is on Moonshot Academy,
which I think is his ownteaching platform in china,
because it's in chinese.
Um, he has over 10 years ofteaching in china and teaches
western philosophy.
Um, his location on youtube islisted as canada and of course,

(57:39):
every single student he has isChinese or at least has a
Chinese accent, while they'relike asking questions in English
and it really does come off aslike insanely well done CCP
talent.
And these videos are pretty,like I said, they're pretty
crazy for the, for the algorithm, for the, uh, for the algorithm

(58:08):
.
Um, he, like some of his topvideos are uh, the reason the us
created isis and they createdthem to be human drones, like
disposable and send the and likeuse isis as a tool of uh
disrupting other parts of themiddle east.
Um, civilization of free fall,the death river strategy uh,
these are all talks about likeum, you know, predictions of

(58:31):
what's going to happen in thenext five to ten years.
This other one is like uh, whyisrael wants to unite itself by
breaking the world, and it's allpretty much like, based in like
very modern, and by modern Imean like post industrial

(58:52):
revolution philosophy of likethe Western world and culture.
So he's not saying anythingthat's really new, but he's then
applying it to like borderlineconspiracy theory.
So it is, it is interesting,but it is like, while you're
watching it, you're like there'sa lot of fallacies, there's a
lot of leaps in logic.
The Israel wants to uniteitself by breaking the world.

(59:15):
Video I watched.
He's talking about how Israel isessentially creating.
He's talking about how Israelis essentially creating.
It's doing a manufacturedgenocide in order to have a
ritual I'm not kidding A ritualof child sacrifice, because what

(59:43):
he says right 47% of peoplekilled in Gaza are under the age
of 18.
So the majority casualties byage are those under 18.
That's like the largestcasualty group and that is such

(01:00:04):
an inflammatory, abhorrent sinto the Western world that this
is going to make the Westernworld unanimously unite and
condemn Israel.
And Israel's doing this becauseif they fulfill that, the whole
world's united against them.
It will accelerate the Jewishview of revelation of apocalypse

(01:00:29):
, and so he's like arguing likeIsrael's trying to be
accelerationist.
I'm saying this.
All this is very conspiratorial.
I'm not saying this is ourbeliefs at all, but this is just
like some of the videos he'sputting out and it's very well
timed, like, uh, you know, thisone came out literally, I think,
just a week before um thestrike on Qatar, um, and this

(01:00:52):
week we see, you know, thevideos coming out of Gaza of the
airstrikes on the, thestructures in Gaza, to
essentially like flatten it andget rid of anything that could
be used as like um apartments or, you know, um living quarters
for people in Gaza, um, and soit's just, it's just like all of

(01:01:13):
it he's doing very well andthough you, if you pay attention
, you realize like this is totalpropaganda.
And then the real question islike okay, well, why is the ccp
fighting so hard to make?
We're not fighting, but likeworking so diligently to make
this uh false, uh appearance oflectures, college university

(01:01:34):
lectures from an esteemedprofessor who went to yale, uh,
you know, talking about thiskind of doomerism stuff, I find
it pretty fascinating.
I do think people should checkout a couple of the videos.
Like I said, a lot of them haveinteresting premises that then
you can like work through andwrestle with yourself.

(01:01:56):
But also I encourage you to beaware of, like this is what
propaganda looks like, and it'snot always just CCP.
Like you're going to find thesame thing from quote unquote
Jewish professors, muslimprofessors.
You're going to find the samething from American, like
renowned professors that you'renot going to realize that this

(01:02:18):
isn't actually a lecture hall inHarvard, but it looks like it.
And they say he went to Harvardand he did teach one semester
at Harvard.
But it's all constructed tolook and appear as if this is a
very natural progression of thedialogue in the nation.
And the sooner you can watchthat and start discerning the

(01:02:41):
real from fiction, the betteroff you're going to be and
navigating the sensationalism ofthis news which ultimately, I'm
saying, relates back to likewhat's going on with Charlie
Kirk and the other kind ofincidents that have popped up
over in the last week, um, whichwe haven't even talked about
that, but there's been a quite afew other ones that bloomed up.

(01:03:04):
Simultaneously with CharlieKirk, the next morning, there
was an IED that failed to go offunderneath a ambulance or a no,
it was underneath a Fox Newstruck in Utah and the IED failed
.
So the SWAT the local sheriffdepartment got uh, did like they
did an investigation, got awarrant to raid this house where

(01:03:25):
they believed the uh buildersof the id were.
They raided it.
There was a ton of other idsthat the builders themselves
said oh no, those are real,those aren't fake like we're
planning on using those too.
Um, and then there was therecent um.
What was it?
Was it a fire bombing recentlythat injured three people?

(01:03:46):
That were was also kind oftargeted towards the media.
Um, anyways, all that said,things are happening.
You need to be able to filterit and understand what is the
real, actual facts coming out ofa situation and avoid the

(01:04:07):
propaganda spew, because it'severywhere and it is a very
successful means of controllinga narrative, and it's not just
on youtube, it's not just onyour favorite news channel, it's
on TikTok, it's on Facebook,it's on Instagram, anyways.
So that's my whole rant on thisand why I'm bringing up this

(01:04:29):
guy Because it will help you, Ithink, to navigate it and find
authenticity.
In fact, better than propaganda.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yes than uh propaganda.
Yes, you gotta filter it all in.
Like the.
You have to think of yourselfas your grandma watching an ai
video clip.
Yeah, like you are that.
That is what you are beingmanipulated stuff, which what

(01:05:03):
you're seeing is not real.
You know like, or it's like thegrandma who was watching a like
a kid play like grand theftauto five or something, and she
thought it was the news yeah,you know like, you have to
realize that you're not abovethat being that person.
You are that person or you willbe that person eventually.
As far as like how we filterthrough and discriminate or

(01:05:29):
discern against the, themessages we're getting you know
and understand what's real andwhat's not, and what's um,
what's really going on.
Um, yeah, this I did not knowabout that.
Uh, that bomb, I was justlooking it up.
There's not a lot ofinformation on the guys besides

(01:05:50):
their names, which are um, alittle bit, uh, they were middle
, a little bit Middle Eastern,they were Arab, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
This is the best I could find on them.
I don't know if they were evenArab immigrants.
They were of Arab kind ofbackground, which there's no
information out there on this.
I only saw their names and thatthey were like where they were
registered at university wise,yeah, and they're just wild.

Speaker 2 (01:06:20):
Looks like maybe a father, son, same last name, 58
year old, 31 year old, or uncle,son or uncle nephew thing,
whatever.
But I mean, yeah, I think thatthere's always more at play or
the more things going on.
Like I don't think going intoconspiracy world is very helpful

(01:06:41):
at times.
But you, my biggest, like mybig conspiracy theory is that
there is not necessarily.
There's not not about a deepstate or a cabal or a thing.
My big thing would be likethere is evil in this world and

(01:07:02):
there is a master of evil thingsin this world and the who is
somewhat coordinated.
Yeah, right, and I don't I'mnot devil behind every bush type
of guy or whatever, but I feellike it's something, it's like a
sound thing.
I can place, um, someunderstanding on some of these

(01:07:26):
things to go okay, why is allthis happening?
What is going on?
And starting there with what'sgoing on with evil in this world
and the I mean the lots ofthings happened this last week,
even the the Epstein file vote.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Happened, simultaneously, happened during
all this.
It happened at the same time ofCharlie Kirk's assassination.
It was like down within acouple minutes of each other.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yeah, so that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
it makes it hard to not go and if you don't think
that republican and democratparties are two wings of the
same bird, look at how manyrepublicans voted to not have
that released.
It was a landslide of them.
Yeah, so like it's not blackand white folks, yeah and yeah,

(01:08:21):
it's like did black and whitefolks?

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
yeah, and yeah, it's like did is of all the did.
Have they all gotten to see it?
You know the list, or whatever,or are they just voting on
something they don't even know?
And they just got their, gottheir marching orders their
orders.
Hey, yeah, dude, you want it,you want to, you want to stay in
this game.
You like, you like this cushylife.
That's the you want to bepresident, someday you're gonna
say no to this dude.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Uh, that's the scariest part to me, because
here's, here's a real conspiracyfor you.
Look at the people who voted noon the epstein list, uh, the
senators who voted no onreleasing it.
And then look at the senatorswho received the most funding
from essentially, the ADL andAPAC and all that.

(01:09:08):
It's pretty much like thesenators who get the most
funding from Israel are thesenators who voted no against
this.
And if that doesn't kind ofgive more credence to what you
were talking about last week orthe week before, pat, about the
whole Epstein connection toMossad possibly, then I don't

(01:09:31):
know what does.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Right, yeah, and I mean it's a frustrating,
disturbing thing.
It's a frustrating, disturbingthing and whatever's going on up
on that hill is all a big game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
It's not different now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
It's just as the same creature as it was before Trump
.
It doesn't matter who's inpower one side or the other, one
side or the other, or it's uh,it is uh, um, what's the phrase?
People would say you know the?
I'm always saying somethinglike it's not a left versus
right thing, it's a, it's a kindof a, it's a class, it's a.
You know, a them versus usthing or like, or you know the
top versus bottom thing.
You know, I don't necessarilytotally believe in that, but

(01:10:20):
that is a better example of whatis actually kind of something
to be and how we've seen gosh wewere talking about it a few
weeks ago like Dan Bongino andlike the Cash.
And Cash Patel and these things,and being like what the heck is
going on with these guys,because they're different than
they were a year ago.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
They're not the same guy they were a year ago.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
It's so different?
Unless they're, unless they'rejust complete liars, you know,
to get a position which someonelike you know I don't know, like
I don't know if dan bonginoactually had political
aspirations, you know but, youknow which?
I don't.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't,I have no idea.
He just was a you know a secret, I don't.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't,I have no idea.
He just was a you know, asecret service guy and then a

(01:11:05):
podcast guy, and then he wascalled into this thing, you know
.
So it's like um and say, andcash Patel does have political,
um, you know, uh, aspirationsaspirations.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Um, that's also crazy cash patel.
And then you read about hisgirlfriend or fiancee I have no,
no, no idea about.
Are you for real?
No idea, dude it is enlightenme.
It is like, without a doubt,that she's my son, like she's
like a honeypot for sure.

(01:11:37):
Like it, the timing that theystarted dating and she came
along coinciding with him,getting like the momentum to
then become, you know, appointedto something by Trump, and then
it happened to be the FBI, andthen just like seeing how she
just kind of manifested out ofthin air, dude, it's pretty
crazy and they're like the worstpart is like the denial of it.

(01:12:00):
And the worst part is like thedenial of it like if, if the
reaction to it wasn't like, ifthe reaction to people like
alluding, like maybe she's gotconnections to, you know, the
Israeli government, and theywere just like okay, whatever,
and they just like shrugged itoff.
But the fact that, like theyhave doubled down and argued
against this so hard and likethere's a ton of like stuff that

(01:12:24):
is coming out about, likeessentially her kind of like
story not lining up of like hercareer and such that, uh, I
don't think it'd be as like inthe zeitgeist as it is.
But it's because they'refighting against that narrative
so hard that everyone's like oh,okay, well like no, you're.
It's a classic thing of like youknow, if you don't really

(01:12:47):
engage and deny excessively,then like people forget about it
and it just seems fringe.
But if you get really personalabout it and like really like
invested in denying it, thenit's like okay.
Like how many times do you haveto say you're not gay before
people believe you're actually?

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
gay.
You know what I mean.
Like that, that's that's whatI'm saying.
Yeah, yeah, just deny it.
And the um, what's with allthese older guys marrying all
these young ladies?
It's ridiculous, especially onthe uh.
Who's the um?
Uh, the girl, who's the presssecretary or whatever?
What's her name?

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
For Trump right now?
Yeah, I don't know her name.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
She's married to some like 60-something-year-old dude
.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
She's got hardly any time to be a press secretary
because Trump is just talking somuch directly to the camera,
caroline Leavitt.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
She's 27.
She's married to this like60-something-year-old guy, same
with this young girl who marriedCash and like whatever, and
Trump obviously too.
So it's like and like.
Maybe age it doesn't matterthat much, there's just still
like.
There's some things I justdon't like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
You know, or just like, or trends and things.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
You know whatever, like you know it's just whatever
.
Who knows it's?
Maybe this is just how it'sbeen through all of history.
If you're, if you rule theworld, you, you have a young
wife.
I don't know what the deal is,sure, but um, all that, to say
one one thing I was thinkingabout when you were talking
about how many people on theleft and right, both uh voted
down the uh be.

(01:14:17):
It'd be curious to actually gothrough the list of all the
people who voted to not releaseit and then go look at the
people on the right,specifically how many people
voted to not release it whoactively campaigned on that,
with you know saying, because itwas a huge it was a huge topic.
Yeah, lots of people werecalling for it to come out and

(01:14:38):
I'll say like I've seen somethings where like um, uh, like
don jr, like I haven't seen himpost much about, like usually,
anything his dad posts, he'slike reposting right away or
like like you know, but like,but he did post a lot about the
epstein stuff and now he's likecrickets, but but he's not
saying but he also hasn't beenlike get over it, get over it.

(01:14:59):
He's just kind of like kind oflike I'm just gonna back out of
this one for a minute, like kindof thing, like I don't know,
dude, it's not a good look.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
No, it definitely damages trust in the institution
when they had all theopportunity to gain an insane
amount of it well they couldhave got a lot of trust back and
said they broke a lot more ofit yeah, it is.
Uh, it is a crazy, crazy thing,man.
I guess ultimately, we'll seewhat really comes out with, uh,
more of the gizlaine testimony,um that'll be pretty interesting

(01:15:30):
.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
How is it?
How's that still not happenedyet?
Get a minute, get them outthere and make them talk.
It's like that.
That's my comment about therope over the tree thing, and
not about not about death, asalso much as like justice, move
forward with it, like thesethings could go on forever,
isn't the?
Uh, like you know, like thebiggest one for me when I was

(01:15:53):
younger watching it was the.
Watching the the batman shooterum man shoot the guy dressed as
a joker in denver shot oh, yeah, yeah yeah, just it drags on
and on forever.
Another case, another appeal,whatever, like.
All this is just like well,he's not.
He's not competent to stand ontrial for himself just make a

(01:16:14):
decision on this, because it'sit's cut and dry what the deal
is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
I mean, is it even really debate?
What like, is it a debate thatit matters if he's insane or not
?
Like honestly, yeah, here's,here's going back to the flesh
simulator thing.
It's like kill all them, killall the man.
He killed a bunch of people inmovie theater and terrorized
people for some of them for likethe rest of their lives.
I still have met people who arelike uncomfortable going to

(01:16:39):
movie theater because they wereat that one.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
And, uh, it's one of those things where it's just
like there's the only way toresolve that is by real, real
consequences.
Anyways, Um, well, I thinkthat's it's good Cause I got
some other stuff we could talkabout, but we can do it all like
offline and prep for the nextthing.

(01:17:03):
But I think I think this is agood summary of kind of like the
process we've gone through inthe last week, you know, and how
we've been seeing everythingaround us Not just accelerated
intention, but heightened aswell as all the false

(01:17:25):
information that's going around.
You'll never regret beingpatient to open your mouth Right
, and if you feel like you're ata place where you want to say
something insanely inflammatorybecause you're angry and you
just don't care, I guarantee youif you just breathe and pray
and wait an hour, you'll feelway less inflammatory, Like you

(01:17:48):
need to say that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:49):
And you might still have your spot as a host on a
late night show.
And you might still have it.
No kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
You might not have gone fired.
So anyways, ken, thanks forjoining us.
Please give us feedback, let usknow how we're doing.
We appreciate you.
We love you.
See you as family.
Take care of yourself, you know.
Spend time with God, spend timewith family.
I have to say, the best thing Idid out of all this stuff, with

(01:18:18):
what happened with Charlie Kirk,is that I laid down next to my
wife and I held her for aboutfive minutes and just held her
and just prayed to God and saidthank you for this gift.
And, uh, man, I loved it.
It was.
It was a peaceful, serenemoment, and I've done it just
about every night since, becauseI know that Charlie doesn't get

(01:18:41):
to do that and it feels veryreal.
And so if that's the biggestthing that is coming out of all
this for me in my own personallife is that I hold my wife a
little bit longer each night andspend a little bit more time
mentally resting in that andbeing aware to appreciate it.
I got no regrets.
So, pat, you got any sign-offTill next time?