Rusted Blades and Red Rocks

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
So I uh I have this knife.
And you've seen a knife similarto this knife.
Oh yeah.
Because this is not the knife Iused to own.
Really?
Yeah.
Did you give up?
Or you you just cleaning I wascleaning the rust off of it.
Uh and for people listening, Ihave this uh this is the uh

(01:10):
CRKT, which they don't like itwhen you call it a cricket.
They don't call their companycricket.
Well, don't name it such a damnlong name.
Well, don't abbreviate it ascricket.
Yeah.
CRKT, it feels like you justintentionally left out the
vowels from the word cricket.
And for those who don't know,it's Columbia River Knife and
Tool Company.
Yes, it is.
Good job.
I I didn't know that.

(01:31):
But um anyway, so this is the uhcricket.
Uh it's I can't remember theexact name of it.
Um, but it's their Karambit thatflicks out, and they have a few
different versions, and one ofthem is uh all like really nice
kind of silicone magpole um likeuh grip.

(01:52):
And uh of course that doesn'trust, but that's not as cool as
the aluminum uh locomotion grip.
Um sorry, it's called the uhCRKT provoke folding knife, and
it's pretty sick, and it's agreat fidget toy, it's so sharp.
It's it is like VelociraptorJurassic Park sharp.

(02:15):
Um because the um it is curvedand it's serrated and it just
glides into anything at the tippokes.

SPEAKER_05 (02:23):
Like a crambit.
At the range, a guy cut his arm.
At our range.
With this knife?
With a crambit.

SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
Who did that?

SPEAKER_05 (02:32):
It was I don't know.
I was I was hoping it wasn'tyou, and when the guy was
telling the safety briefing andour orientation story, he was
like, couple weeks back here,this guy, because they they're
talking about like there's nothere's never been someone no
one's ever gotten to her.
Shot no one's gotten shotthemselves or shot somebody
else, but like the you know,most accidents happen or
splinters or whatever, and butthis guy, he's like he said this

(02:55):
this kid made a he's like made ashot he was trying to do all
day, and so he like flipped hisknife out like celebration and
was whirling it around and thenstuck it in his arm and had to
uh and it started bleedingeverywhere and had to go get it
stitched up.

SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Yeah, no kidding, dude.
But uh I can imagine, dude.
If this went into my like tricepor bite bicep, it would flay it
open.

SPEAKER_05 (03:16):
The little claw.

SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
It's so sharp.
But, anyways, it was a greatknife.
Uh, I ran into the ocean with itwhen I was uh on a bachelor
party, and that's what made itstart rusting.
Because I ran into the ocean,pulled it out, let it dry, and
then I guess coming back to highaltitude in Colorado really
dried it out.
And it's even anodized.

(03:38):
It's called like a titaniumanodization.
Now I don't know because it'sall aluminum.
I don't think any part of thisknife is made out of titanium.
But I guess it's an anodizationthat uses titanium.
I don't know.
It didn't work because it wasrusting around it.
So I took it apart, which was apain in the ass, cleaned all the
rust off, coated it, and uh anoil, and then started trying to

(04:00):
assemble it.
And to get this uh super smoothlocomote motion action, you
actually are uh drill bit like atorque system on both sides.
And so there's a how hollowedout screw from one side, and
then the other side has anotherscrew that screws into the
hollowed out screw.

(04:21):
And if one side is over-torkedtoo much, you lose the
locomotion because it's tootight and it seats it up.
So they have like I didn't knowthis until I like looked up like
how to screw it tight, and likethere's people who with similar
locomotion stuff showing likeyou need two drills and they
need to be at like the sameweight, like uh torque, and

(04:44):
they're counter-drilling, andthen you stop because as soon as
they reach a certain torque,they both just start timing out.
Yeah, and that's how you do itto keep it from going over.
Well, I found that out after Ihad like tried assembling it and
just sheared every single screwhead and my drill bits, and uh,
I'm pretty sure I uh might haveburnt the motor out on one drill

(05:06):
trying to do it.
Oh my god.
So I was like, fuck.
So I got online, must have beena Ryobi.
Well, the Ryobi's still working,it's the other one that's not
working, right?
Um, but uh I uh went on toCRKT's website and found their
warranty stuff, called them, andthey were like, Yeah, just fill

(05:27):
out a warranty formula it in,and we'll assess if we can, you
know, if it falls underneathwarranty and we'll repair it, or
we'll let you know like we'renot repairing it and we can mail
back the broken one.
I was like, ugh, that sucks.
All right.
So I on the form I filled it outand I was like, literally, like
reason for warranty.

(05:47):
I was like, I tried to be a manand like repair and clean my own
knife.
I disassembled the knife,removed all the rust, oiled, and
went to reassemble it, and I'veover torqued and ruined
everything, and now it's all awobbly jit.
Like, it's like it would likenot fold out, or if it did, it

(06:09):
would lock in place because itwas too tight, but then it'd
also be wobbly because thetension wasn't even across all
four screws.
It was a meh, it was totally notsafe to use.
It totally defeated the purposeof like a quick reaction knife,
right?
And I was like, So I was like, Itry to be a man, try to fix
myself in reassembling it.
I've only broken it, made itworse.

(06:31):
And my final words were I amstupid, please forgive me.
Please fix my knife.
I didn't even ask for a newknife, yeah.
And then I didn't get anynotification that they received
it.
I like mailed it out to them,and I was like, uh shit, well,
we'll see.
They might have just opened itand be like, yeah, we're not
even gonna bother, we're justthrowing this away.
And uh then yesterday, after Igot home from my trip to Zion,

(06:54):
this was in the mail.
And I opened it up in a freshbox, uns unopened plastic.
They didn't even they didn'teven say like there wasn't like
a letter saying like we justreplaced it.
It was just like new knife.
Let's go, dude.
Yeah, I'm freaking stoked.
I'm happy.
This is a this is a uh very umuh enthusiastic review of the

(07:20):
customer support and warrantysystem for CRK team.

SPEAKER_05 (07:23):
Yeah, they are uh their customer care is awesome.
Have you used it before?
Yeah, yeah, I've used it beforefor like uh uh basically when a
clip wears out or and or if yourscrews where you lose screws to
hold your clip in and stuff.
That's usually the first thingthat goes is the bell clip, and
so they'll just they'll justsend you new stuff to put it

(07:45):
together um and take care ofyour knives and so and what I
like about them too is likethey're I except my I've had
three um and I still have two ofthem.
The first one I had I lost, butthe um and usually it's the it's
like the the M16 Tonto is the ismy is my go-to.
I got two versions of it.

(08:05):
I really like their EMT version.

SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
Like that they actually issue Marines?
They I think they may have.
There's a knife that they madethat was like the USMC standard
issue pocket knife for a while.

SPEAKER_05 (08:17):
Because it was it's a great knife, and then I had
like the EMT version, so it wasit was orange, which I liked
because I used to like camoknives or like black knives or
something or just like you knowgas station knives.

(09:58):
Yeah, but guess what?
Hard to find them when they fallin the woods.
When you're outside in thewoods, you lose that stuff.
So an orange knife is awesome,and um, and then it had uh
basically a seatbelt cutter init and a glass breaker, and the
way they incorporated it inthere was really just clean.
It didn't take up, it didn'tlook weird, it didn't have extra

(10:19):
um uh it didn't ruin any of thefunction of the actual knife.
And then also because it's apretty large knife, the seatbelt
cutter is on the the I guess thefront of the tank, the part that
you flip with your thumb to comeout.
And so it's got a little, it'salmost like a little gut hook,
but really tiny, but you can useit for like for opening boxes,
cutting string, whatever.

(10:40):
You don't have to get your wholeknife out, you just pull that
out and slip it through stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
But and honestly, you shouldn't be using your
actual knife blade if you canavoid it.
Right, for yeah, so for thatsort of stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (10:51):
But they're I think they're awesome knives, and
they're like they're not cheap,but they really are affordable.
Like they're they're definitelylike not cheap, meaning like
they're not poorly made.
Their qual build quality isreal, I think, really good.

SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Yeah, well, and I think they have very entry-level
affordable knives to get into.
Um and they also have veryniche, high-end, expensive
knives.
You know what I mean?
Um, I'm looking at like theirthey have like 15 different
versions of this M16 Tonto.

(11:26):
Yep.
And one of them starts at 40.
Yep.
And then some of them go up to Ithink looks like the most
expensive one I can find here islike over a hundred.

SPEAKER_05 (11:38):
Mm-hmm.
Um but if you're getting intolike some of the other companies
for that same cost, you're going300.
Yeah.
For that, yeah, for benchmade.
Yeah, for a benchmate, you'regonna lose it, right?

SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
And so it's like never buy a benchmade.
As much as I love benchmade andI think they're well-made
knives.
It's like buying a pair ofOakley sunglasses.
You're gonna lose them.

SPEAKER_05 (11:55):
It's you're gonna scratch it, you're sunglasses,
you're gonna lose them.

SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
That cheap ass gas station knife, you ain't ever
losing that.
Exactly.
You fucking you drop those.
This is a joke I love.
I can't remember who said it.
I wish I could give credit tothe community.
It's like those damn cheap asslike sunglasses from the gas
station, you know, you're youcan't lose them if you want.

SPEAKER_05 (12:15):
Like, can't kill them.

SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
You're on the boat leaning over to catch a fish and
your oak leys or your ray bandsfall off.
They're gone, they're goneforever.
They immediately sink to thebottom because they're basically
made out of lead.
But you drop your like tendollar uh pit bull uh no bulldog
sunglasses and a scuba diversurfaces with them in hand
asking if you know you droppedthem or something.

(12:38):
Oh yeah.
And I feel like that's exactlythe thing, same thing with
knives.
Like any knife over a hundreddollars, I'm almost always
losing in the first year.
And watches.
Watches.

SPEAKER_05 (12:47):
I had a watch that I um it was a like an Iron Man or
whatever.
Yeah, it's like a whatevercheap, you know, it's like your
$30 gas, like or$30, like, youknow, just from the store.
And uh I lost it.
I first of all, I found it in alake, and then I put it on, and
then I lost it in the oceantwice.

(13:09):
The first time I lost it in theocean, it fell down deep.
My mom swam way down there andretrieved it, which was awesome.
We were heading out snorkeling,and we good mom move.
It was impressive.
We're heading out snorkeling,and we on the way out, it must
have fallen off.
I didn't realize.
And then we saw we saw thesegiant mana rays.
It was, I mean, huge wingspan,these huge mana rays, super
cool.
And then on our way back in, Inoticed my watch is gone, and we

(13:32):
looked down, and it was aboutfor like 30 feet down, it was
down there.
No way, and she just dove downthere and like cleared her nose
as she went the whole way, andjust gravity came up.
I was like, that's incredible,Mom.
Yeah, I was like, that's like amiddle crap.
That's it, that's impressive,Miss Pat.
It was awesome, and then I lostit on the beach later on because

(13:52):
they basically the Velcro on theband had worn out.
Oh, yeah.
Then I lost it swimming again inthe waves on the beach, and then
I found it the next daysnorkeling.
It floated past me, and I and IYou're just you're never gonna
lose the free stuff like that.
Yeah, dude.
It's it's just it's unkillable.
Yeah, and same with my uh I seeRKT knives.

(14:14):
I've had them forever.
I I did lose one, but since thenI've had two for over one of
them, I've had one of them forover my first one I had for like
three, four years, and then theother ones I've I've had a one
for ten years now, and the otherone I've had for five, six years
now.
So and they're they're awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (14:36):
It is crazy, like I think they are definitely the
sharpest knives from thefactory, at least in my
experience.
Like, I haven't had a knife comeout of the box that sharp.
And it's like ubiquitous acrossall their models, I think.
Because I also used to havetheir super tiny little foldable
pocket knife one where like theblade is you know shorter than
two inches.

(14:57):
Uh, but it's a great littleletter opener, quick, quick cut
one.
And uh I love that thing.
Uh but it was like it was scarysharp, like it was unsettling
sharp.
Um but yeah, uh, you know whoelse though makes good knives?

SPEAKER_03 (15:16):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (15:17):
Spiderco.
And Spiderco is headquartershere in our in our beautiful
state.
Yeah, forget that.
They apparently sometimes Igotta look to see what it is,
but they apparently do like justa like um outlet sale of
overstock stuff they have, andit's like a bunch of of their

(15:37):
knives at discount of like over50% off.
And you just walk up, but theyonly do it for a few days until
they sell out, and they alwayssell out, and they do it every
year here.
So I think you and I should gothe next time they do that.
For real.
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 (15:51):
Check it out.

SPEAKER_01 (15:53):
But uh, anyways, um, so yeah, I got my I got my knife
replaced.
Uh, I finally um I finally gotmy uh shadow systems barrel
fixed.
So I don't know if we mentionedon the podcast, but my shadow

(16:15):
systems barrel for uh one of theslides kept on having rounds get
stuck in it, and the the ejectorcouldn't pull them out because
they were so wedged in tight.
The casing was getting stuck in.
The case after it would fire.
No, not a squib load, butliterally like the the chamber
diameter was too small by likethousandths of a millimeter.

(16:38):
And I think it's from like theiranodizing process.
Um or not anodizing, is it yeah,I think it's anodizing, no,
nitritine.
They're nitriting the barrellike they do, like a lot of
people do with AR barrels aswell.
You know, they get the nitridecheat treatment.
But sometimes that nitriting isso thick that if you don't have

(16:59):
your tolerance properly in specfor you know your mechanical
tolerances of things, you know,having just enough room to uh be
a thousandth of a millimeteroff, then when you add that
extra coating, it's gonna be tootight.
And so it happened with likethree different brands of ammo,
none of it reload, all factorystuff.

(17:19):
I filmed it, showed them thevideos, and then they sent me a
barrel, and the bear, the nextbarrel they sent me did the same
thing.
And I was like, dude, guys, nowI'm concerned for your
manufacturing stuff.
So I recorded it, showed themall the stuff, gave them another
call.
They kind of were like, at thatpoint, they were like, Well,
we're gonna you're gonna have tosend in the gun because there's
no way we're making thismistake.

(17:40):
And I'm like, guys, um I canshow you on video.
And I showed them with thebarrel.
I have I have a shorter slidefrom them that with uh the
barrel that came with that one.
Perfect, and all the like superbig, like uh all the casings
that got stuck in these otherchambers would just like drop in
there like nothing and pull outlike nothing, and they'd sit

(18:02):
flush.
But with all these cases thatwere too tight, if they wouldn't
sit flush, and if you pushedthem down to make them flush,
then like you could pick up thebarrel by just holding the
casing and shake it around andit wouldn't ever come out.
On video too, I think the thingthat really sent them was that I
like bent the needle nose pliersI was using to wedge the case

(18:25):
out.
Oh yeah.
Because the in the because theywere like soft needle nose tips
so they wouldn't scratchanything, but they bent
backwards because of how likewedged the case was in.
I was like, see, like now Ineeded to use like actual pliers
to pull this out.
Um, so finally they sent me athird barrel, immediately went
and tested it at the range afterI got it, no issues.
Everything uh like is coming inand out of it easy, and all the

(18:50):
casings that were getting jammedin the other one, I kept them
just to test their fit, and itworks great.
So Shadow Systems fixed it onthe third one, you know, and it
was gonna be one of those thingsof like, hey, third times the
charm or three strikes, you'reout.
Because I was getting I wasgetting ready, bro.
I was like, hey, if this is anissue, I'm just gonna sell all
my shadow system shit because Ican't I can't have this being a

(19:11):
carry gun and having it lock upon me from the first round
because and like also like it'snot something that you can just
rack the slide.

SPEAKER_05 (19:19):
No, it's stuck, it's stuck.
Like done.

SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
I wouldn't I would need to use my knife.
That was one thing too.
One knife I used in like thewhen I was at the range because
I didn't have my uh pliers onme.
I was like, oh, I'll just try towedge it out with my knife tip.
It it broke the tip off of asteel knife with how tightly
wedged it was in there, right?
So it was kind of one of thosethings that was like if this
happened in an actualself-defense situation, I'd be

(19:42):
fucked.
So all I said, they fixed it.
I sent everything into them.
They said they're looking intoit and they're aware of it and
seeing if it's affecting any ofthe other barrels.
Um, and uh, they were veryappreciative.
They didn't charge me anything,I didn't have to pay for any
mail or shipping.
And uh they wanted the casingsthat got stuck as well as like

(20:05):
the other barrels they had sentme and stuff, so that way they
could test them all up there andsee what the thing is.
I'm trying I tried to measure itwith my own calipers, and it was
always a little hard to tellbecause I don't have digital
calipers, but from what I couldtell, like the the difference
was literally like one onethousandth of a millimeter in
the diameter of the of thechamber, and that's enough with

(20:28):
you know like a small explosionthat it's gonna wedge a case or
not.
You know, that's that's thedifference between like casing
easily is ejected or a caseingis now basically friction locked
into your chamber and your gun'sdead.
So those are two things, twowarranty things that got
repaired, two companies, greatcustomer service.

SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
Look at that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
And uh I'm sure I'm sure Shadow Systems has my
number saved at this point afterhow many back and forth phone
calls I had with them to try todiagnose it, and how many videos
I've sent them on email.
So I'm pretty sure like if Icall them again, they're just
gonna be like, oh fuck, it'sjust got it.
They're home right to thefreaking voice message system.

(21:12):
We're not answering today.
But yeah, no, I'm just kidding.
They were they were great.
I was getting ready though.
We have a buddy who's been onthe Mickey Pash show before who
actually is on a first namebasis, I would say.
Yeah.
With uh with a exec at ShadowSystems.
I was like, if I have to, I'mjust gonna reach out to that
guy.
I'm just gonna reach out to himon like LinkedIn and be like,

(21:34):
hey man, can you get yourcustomer service department?
But they they were fine.
I didn't I didn't do that atall.

SPEAKER_05 (21:39):
Didn't have to didn't have to go over there,
the big dogs.
Yeah, yeah.
The uh I I've I've been tryingto like shadow systems.

SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
What do you mean you've been trying?

SPEAKER_05 (21:53):
You don't own one.
I know, but every time I holdone and shoot one, I'm just
like, that just doesn't get me.

SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
Doesn't it doesn't I don't know whether everybody
take this with a grain of saltbecause this is a guy who's
still I'm a SIG boy.
He's yeah, he's a little dirty,nasty Sig boy.
And I'm I'm gonna say it withthe hard R.
Oh yeah.
You SIGGR.
Oh my god.
I freaking hate that I'm sittingat this table with you.

SPEAKER_05 (22:20):
I I oh I hate that I love them.
Hate that I love them.
I hate that I that the It's okayto love the old ones.
That the Glock and can't lovethe new ones.
Glock platform doesn't feel goodin my hands.

SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
Well, it's interesting you say that because
that's like one of the mainselling points of Shadow Systems
is that it's a Glock systembased off of the third gen
Glock, but their angle is waydifferent on the grip.
That's true.
It's it's technically like amuch more close, it's a lot more
similar to the sig angles oflike the P226 and stuff, and

(22:53):
that's why a lot of dudes endedup liking them because they hate
their Glock grip angle, but theylike you know, shadow systems.
I am I am slowly regressing likein in uh refinery, and I'm just
I think my next purchase is aGlock.

SPEAKER_05 (23:08):
This is just a straight plain old one, just a
straight plain J.

SPEAKER_01 (23:11):
Well, I'm gonna get one like cut for optic.
Oh, yeah, but um nothing withlike no aftermarket trigger or
like ported barrel.
Really?
I'm just yeah, because I see somany guys running them on
competitions now, and apparentlythe Glock 47 is like the perfect
balance of weight and recoilimpulse um and length of slide

(23:34):
uh on the Glock system, and likea lot of dudes are doing really
good with it.
Now, I think it's way more theshooter and what's between your
brain, I mean what's betweenyour ears on like how good of a
shot you're gonna be and performat a competition, right?
But as someone who's gotten tothe point where I feel pretty
good and I'm consistently in thetiming of uh A rank for USPSA,

(23:58):
I'm kind of like, all right,maybe it's worth getting a
dedicated race gun if I want totry to get master or grandmaster
in the next few years and reallydedicate time to it rather than
just like using my stock carrygun.
So that's my thoughts.
Um you I swear to god, Pat, ifyou buy any more SIG guns, I am

(24:21):
gonna be I'm gonna be mad, dude.

SPEAKER_05 (24:23):
I'm gonna be really mad.
The new 2011 is so dope.
No, it's not it's trash.
It's so good and wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
No, it's not.

SPEAKER_05 (24:30):
It's just as much trash as Bluefield's 2011.

SPEAKER_01 (24:39):
Dude, that is easily the biggest like stain on Sean
Ryan's reputation is the amountof freaking SIGs he's handed
out.
I know, but I I'm just imaginelike imagine Sean Ryan gets sued
in 20 years because those cigshave like killed or hurt like
the dudes he handed them out to.

SPEAKER_05 (25:00):
I know.

SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
I did see the video though.
That like the the new Sig 1911or 2011 system looks pretty
cool.
And it kind of makes me thinklike that's what all their
engineers were working onbecause they knew it's all come
out.
I don't know if you've readtheir latest reports of like
internal messages in thecompany.

SPEAKER_05 (25:17):
No, is it was it finally like it's all coming
out?
I don't know if it slowed downkeeping up with it.

SPEAKER_01 (25:22):
Um, a really great USPSA grandmaster, uh, and like
just overall um like pistolmarksman trainer.
His name is uh Ben Steger.
Uh he's on YouTube, you canwatch a lot of videos.
His videos are like the easiestway you could watch something
for five minutes and then takewhat he's talking about to the

(25:42):
range and actually practice itand like demonstrably see
yourself improving.
But he is so in love with theSig drama.
So like half his videos are justlike pooping on Sig.
Um and he's was responding tosome stuff that got leaked
internal-wise that like SIG hasbeen aware of how dangerous the

(26:04):
P320 system is for years.
And it wasn't like a oh no,we've tested it, it's it's good
to go.
It's like, oh no, now there'slike proof in the pudding that
you are lying and that it hasbeen not and you have known has
not been safe, and rather thanfixing it or doing a recall or
warranty, they just had everyoneworking on this new 2011 system
that fortunately accepts P320mags because they're like, yeah,

(26:28):
now we're just gonna try to geteverybody to switch to that and
like forget the 320, and now wedon't have to do any warranty
shit.

SPEAKER_05 (26:34):
Hey, I know it's bad.
I got mine to do it.
Did you?
I did.
Really?
I got mine to do it, I think.
Were you doing it with like asnap cap?
Uh yeah, with a snap cap,depress the trigger.
Just enough.
Jiggle the front.
Yeah.
Now it's like I don't know.
Did you test your flux with thenew because I tested mine and it

(26:58):
wouldn't do it?
The flux won't do it.
Yeah.
No, but I I was like, Somepeople's fluxes will.

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Really?
Because the they've they'vechanged that they again back to
tolerances.
They've changed the tolerancesso many different times without
like it being like a actualdifferent generation of the
M320.
I'm sorry, of the P320 M18.
So you'll see like there'sactually like I was comparing my
flux with another dude's, andhis like his slide easily sat

(27:29):
another three four thousandthsof a millimeter higher.
And like, did I really measureit?
No, but I could tell holding itup and see the light coming
through.
And his did with a slightdepress of the trigger and
pushing down the front go out ofaction.

SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
And we tried it a bunch with mine, couldn't get it
to happen.
But I'm also using one of theOG, like old, like warranted M18
slides.

SPEAKER_05 (27:57):
Yep.
Yep.
So yeah, I think I got mine todo it.
Scary to click off.
But at least you know now.

SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
I know now, and I will say with it's kind of like
a dog, you're wondering if thedog's safe or not, and then it
bites you finally.
You're like, well, at least Iknow.

SPEAKER_05 (28:10):
And there is a point where it's like you have to take
your trigger all the way to theback of the wall.
So it's still kind of like theI'm not saying that they I'm not
denying that they go off, butthat the it is like a it's not a

(28:30):
great argument to be like yougotta pull the trigger pretty
much all the way and then jiggleit until it goes.
I think it depends on it versuslike versus like because then
how it's looking at all the ifyou if you just had it and just
jiggled it and it went off withit like without messing with the
trigger, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (28:48):
Well, look at all the ones where they're cocked
and locked in someone's holsterand then they're going off.

SPEAKER_05 (28:52):
And they go off.
No, I know they do that.

SPEAKER_01 (28:54):
And I think I think that's without trigger depress
because the way the P320 uhessentially locks your um firing
pin is it's it's holding it backfully pre-locked.
And a lot of people don't getit.
Like when you rack the slide onyour Glock, your Springfield,
your uh Smith and Weston, you'reactually only half cocked.

(29:19):
And it's very similar to yourhalf cock on a revolver, where
if you sit there and then you goto draw and you pull the
trigger, your trigger isactually cocking your firing pin
the rest of the way beforereleasing it.
The 320 system, it's fullycocked, and when you pull the
trigger, it just releases it.

(29:40):
And so that's why this isn'tlike happening on other
platforms, is because otherplatforms at physically can't
fully cock the firing pin uhlike the 320 just sits at rest
with.
And so when they go bang,because I've seen people able to
do the like press the front sidedown while pulling the trigger

(30:02):
back on like locks and otherlike striker fired, and they
could do it, they have to pullit a lot further than the 320,
but it's still the same thing incontext.
But that's the also the thing islike the reason they have to
pull it back so much further isbecause it's all it's cocking
the finish cocking the firingpin.
So it's just one of those thingswhere it's like it's a perfect

(30:24):
storm of tolerances on the 320to like really be dangerous
versus the other guns.

SPEAKER_05 (30:28):
It's the fact that it's all the way back, yeah, and
it's spooky.
Oh yeah.
So that's where the flux is fineand not carried hot, also for
starters.
Oh, mine is always hot.

SPEAKER_01 (30:41):
Oh yeah.
My flux is hot as a rocket.
Just ready, you've seen it.

SPEAKER_05 (30:46):
Just red rocket it out.

SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Uh it's hot, flaming hot pink.
Really?
Hot.
Yeah, no, you saw the pink job.

SPEAKER_05 (30:53):
Oh, I did see that.

SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:54):
But you you go, uh do you carry with a hot pipe in
it?

SPEAKER_01 (30:57):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:57):
Are you just ready to rock and roll?

SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:59):
I like it.

SPEAKER_01 (31:00):
Yeah.
I want to be I want to be tworounds out of the barrel before
the brace is deployed into myshoulder.

SPEAKER_05 (31:07):
All right.
I like it.
But the uh and then my other theother old 320 that I have,
that's just now it's just uhpaperweight collector's item.
And or like I'll shoot it at therange.
Yeah.
At like purely flat range.
Like like like on the bench likethat running large.
It's on the bench, and then youput the mag in while you're

(31:27):
pointing down range, cock it orrack it, you know, and then like
shoot it, like that sort ofthing.
But the um uh then it therehasn't been issues with the 365
for that.
There's been other issues, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
I haven't heard of anyone's 365 going off into
their foot.

SPEAKER_05 (31:44):
Yep, but I know I I honestly I hate that I love SIG
so much, and I love non-sig USA.

SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
I love European SIG, Swiss SIG.
Yeah.
I I would debate, like, ifsomeone was like, hey man, um
I'll give you this SIG 550 or553 or 552, I'd take any of
those versions.
For uh all you gotta do is uh wejust get to cut off one of your

(32:18):
like uh one of your toes.
Oh yeah.
It is not, and I was if it's notmy big toe, I would do it.
I'd be like, yeah, sure.
Get the pliers, man.
Clip this bitch off.
I don't need my like middle toe.
Are you kidding?
I would do it.
I love those guns.
And I I do love like the 226 andall of its you know generational

(32:42):
cousins.
Like the 228, 225, but um I hatethe Sig Cross.
The Sig Cross is probably one ofthe only guns that will cost you
a high tier like uh PRS rifleprice.

(33:02):
And it will rust like a shitbucket not well treated uh
bottom of the barrel Savage.
And even then I feel bad sayingthat because Savage makes some
pretty great guns especiallydollar like dollar cost ratio.
And then um dude the Sig SpearLT is like one of the shittiest

(33:23):
guns in the world.
It's going off all the time inthe field now with testing uh
without people pulling thetrigger.
That's it's yeah it's just likeone of those things of like dude
they're they clearly have cut acrap load of corners and Sig USA
is uh is definitely pooping thebed.
I don't know.

(33:43):
No one cares about this gunautism stuff as much as I do but
when you're selling products forthe cost of like you know a used
motorcycle I've got to like Ibetter get what I'm paying for
you know it better still be youknow something I can ride or die
with and I just don't see the Idon't I don't see a return of

(34:05):
value there.
If you want to buy a man Patit's your money but I'm also
gonna try to s I'm gonna try tosave you money because I don't
it's not that I it's not thatI'm right or I or I know better.
It's that I just hate seeing myfriends live in the darkness.
Just get a gun that might hurtthem one day.

(34:25):
Get a gun that might let themdown like of all things a gun
should be the last thing youpurchase and are okay with like
letting you down.

SPEAKER_05 (34:32):
Oh yeah and the you know the it feels like it the
firearm as a thing been aroundfor a while now.
Yeah and there's been like amany many of them that have been
developed that are work withoutfail.
So it feels like we should be ata point where like when

(34:53):
developing firearms thereshouldn't be failures like this
you know trying to likereiterate or change things that
like you can only like improvethem so much to a point before
you're just messing with themtoo much.
Yeah like over engineering orsomething.
And so like the have you seenthe new Barrets are going off I
heard about that.
Yeah I did hear about the newBarrett and like the Barrett 50

(35:15):
cows are basically uh it's likekind of where the it's something
with the bolt you can like justflick the bolt and it goes off.

SPEAKER_01 (35:23):
Which is like I did see that like you get a dead
trigger.
Yeah and then you can't pull thetrigger but as soon as you go to
touch the bolt for some reasonthe bolt makes it go off.
I did see that yeah something'sgetting stuck and then it's then
it's going but it's like weirdthat the like the videos I saw
it looked like it was literallylike the slightest touch to that

(35:45):
bolt would get it to go off butyou could smash the trigger and
nothing would happen.

SPEAKER_05 (35:49):
Yeah yep so two guns the P320 the M18 and the Barrett
50 cow heavily used by US forcesUS military yeah they're in a
pickle and what's happened Ihaven't followed it with the the
airmen who who passed away oryeah I was kind of following it

(36:10):
I was following it because itstarted getting a little fishy.

SPEAKER_01 (36:13):
Well it's totally like now it's manslaughter for
sure they definitely blamed iton this Sig and it seems like it
wasn't the Sig's fault entirelyit seems like they were horsing
around and someone slammed itdown on the counter and it went
off.
Someone else put it down and ithit him well they were horsing

(36:34):
around and he like rather thanreturning it to his holster or
just leaving it in his holsterand not goofing around with his
gun he slammed it on the counterand then it went off and hit the
other dude.
Whereas originally they said itwas like his own gun his own gun
when he was taking the holsteroff with the gun in it and then
it went off and somehow hit himin the chest.

(36:57):
It was all fishy.
Now there's apparently two guyswho are one's arrested first
like not first count I don'tknow what it is but like they're
both being charged withmanslaughter and conspiracy
because they lied about itinitially together.
So well that's not good.
Anyways if uh you're notinterested in guns you could

(37:19):
skip to this part.
Um Billy Jean and I just gotback from our anniversary trip
and uh our 88th anniversarypeople don't need to know how
many years we've been married Idon't want them to know because
then what if they tried to likeuse that to like you know get
through like your secretquestion oh yeah on your

(37:41):
accounts or whatever.
Um but uh we went to it was kindof like a little bit of a last
minute because I really wantedto go and do something like
challenging for us outdoors.
And I was really debating onlike what to do because neither
of us do mountain biking um andit was already you know in the

(38:05):
end of the summer early fallseason.
So I was really trying to findsomething that would be fun and
that we could do and enjoy theoutdoors and be um you know
physically challenging but alsonot like miserable and freezing
and like cold rain cold weatheruh early winter early early fall
stuff um so I settled on we wentto Zion and Bryce and uh holy

(38:31):
smokes dude one first off Utahactually really loves and cares
about their national parks likeand I get it like most of them I
mean they seem to love them likeat least those two specifically

(38:52):
those are the two most uh easilyaccessed and like well uh I
would say not groomed but likemaintained or not just even
maintained but like overall likejust the design and uh yeah
accessibility of the the parksis unmatched like it it puts

(39:19):
Rocky Mountain National Park toshame dude and uh it's hard to
explain it until you get therebut like even the way their
cities like the towns outside ofBryce and Zion are set up
Springdale and then Brycetechnically has a town called
Bryce Canyon City right out thefront gates of the park but um

(39:39):
they're just so approachable andthe cost of like being there is
like you not you're not payinglike you know mountain town
estes park prices to like eatdinner or buy groceries or pay
for parking or a camp spot youknow whereas like Rocky Mountain
National Park if you're on theuh uh Gramby Grand Lake side or

(40:03):
if you're on the Estes Park sidelike you're you're paying out
the nose like even if you'rejust doing dispersed camping
like you're you gotta pay ahefty price for that camping
spot and you better reserve itlike a year in advance and and
like if you're trying to get ifyou're trying to stay not on
dispersed camping but like stayuh you know in an RV somewhere
like you're paying out the nosegroceries are going to be

(40:25):
expensive um the only thing Utahdefinitely is way more expensive
about is gas like gas is easilylike a dollar more there than it
is in Colorado um but that itkind of makes sense because you
go onto the western slope ofColorado and it's all the same
price as Utah out there too.
Like Grand Junction and Utah areboth like$350 for gas right now

(40:47):
whereas like we're we're at onthe eastern side is$240$230
even.
So um all that said veryaffordable incredibly family
friendly and like non-activistfriendly I would say like if
you're not a super outdoorsyactivist that wants to hike

(41:09):
several miles or go up and downsome rigorous trails like you
can see everything you want ineither of those parks without
really exerting yourself.
And if you want to like dosomething like that you're proud
of like push yourself toaccomplish you know very
rigorous you know loop trail orsomething you can do that so

(41:34):
easily there.
It's like it's some of the bestlike uh orienteering and like
navigating with like the parkmaps and the bus stops and the
shuttles I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_05 (41:44):
And like get all around in there.

SPEAKER_01 (41:46):
Yeah and like again Rocky Mountain National Park
like just in all the times I'vegone up there is pretty much
like you have you have one hikeyou could just keep going up it.
And it gets harder I guess themore you go up because you're
just still going up to more andmore higher elevation lakes.
But like that's it.

(42:07):
You know and the rest of thehikes are more like pretty flat
hiking down you know you're notdoing remotely nearly as
intensive hikes um at least inmy experience from like the SS
park side right uh but um yeah Iwould I would say like they're
they're incredibly convenientand accessible uh the cost you

(42:27):
know is the same as any nationalpark but then dude the the
lodges and the visitor centersand the stores are unreal I
don't even know if RockyMountain National Park has a
dedicated like real storevisitor center at it.
I think it just has the rangerbooth.

(42:48):
I don't even know if RMNP has alodge that you can stay at.
Both Zion and Bryce had likelodges in the park that you
could reserve and stay at andlike be there for you know
activities all throughout theday starting from morning into
the night like stargazing andstar night like night hikes and

(43:10):
stuff and um I just was shockedat like how much was there and
it it was it really did feel umalmost theme park like with like
how well maintained everythingwas and how accessible it was.
And it still felt like you're inthe wilderness like you're in
this beautiful majestic wellpreserved environment but you're

(43:32):
also somewhere like someone isvery much clearly cares about
this and taking a lot of effortto maintain and take care of it.
And uh yeah it was it wassurreal and I will say like
there was there felt like a realclear difference between like
the park rangers at both thoseparks and other national parks
I've been to where it just feltlike the park rangers couldn't

(43:53):
be bothered to do something orlike and out there it was like
dude I saw them on the trail allthe time just literally out
there to like be there to helppeople I saw them at various
different posts giving like justfree like walk up and listen to
them providing like educationalcontent on like the geology and
stuff and the and the umtopography and the weather and

(44:15):
just it was awesome and uh I wedid I feel like in one day Billy
Jean and I really punishedourselves and we did like over a
seven mile loop oh nice at Bryceand saw pretty much everything
you could see at Bryce Zion is atotally different beast.
I did not understand how the skythe scale of Zion is big but

(44:38):
like Zion is one of those parkswhere like you could go and give
a whole day to one hike and likeyou get up there and that's what
you do that day.
And then you gotta you're you'respent and you gotta leave um and
there's not as many like looptrails.
It's more like you're in thecanyon and you just pick a route
to go up and some are easier andshorter than others.

(45:02):
It's kind of like you're pickingyour own 14er you know what I
mean uh and you're like you justpick which one you're gonna do
that day.
So I think next time we're gonnago to Zion for like two or three
days so we can like pick severaldifferent trails.
Zion is also though so busy thatyou there's a quite a few trails
or like other national parklandmanaged by the Zion National

(45:24):
Park um that uh you have to dolotteries for and you could do
like a six month out lottery oryou can try to do the daily
lottery.
But it's it's super hard um toto get them and so we kinda and
to even do the daily one youcan't even apply for it unless
you're within like 50 miles ofwhere the pickup spot is oh wow

(45:47):
and then you have to do it fromyour phone and if you if you
don't do it from your phone youcan't apply because they use a
geo fence with your phone'slocation to decide if like
you're within the area or not.
That's wild.
It's super selective and theysome of them like cowdy buttes
uh cowdy buttes for the northand south limited to 16 groups a
day or 48 people whichever onefills up first and your group

(46:11):
can have up to 10 people and solike you're entering for that
lottery and there's a goodchance like 16 individuals get
it and that's it.

SPEAKER_05 (46:20):
Yeah or four groups four groups of 10 and it's
filled up and that's it.

SPEAKER_01 (46:25):
Wow and uh and you don't get like a call back if
like a group fails to pick uptheir permit it's just like all
right they're not going.
And we have less people on thetrail.
But when you see Coyote Butteswhich is like the super famous
stuff people have seen on likedocumentaries and like Planet
Earth of like the wave and thisbeautiful uh marbled red orange

(46:48):
brown colors it's also it's gotlike no trails.
It's a human heritage site whereuh like there's cave uh not cave
car but like wall carvings inthe slot canyons but it's also
one of those things where likethe slot canyon to coyote buttes
is like sometimes only like afoot wide and if it rains while

(47:10):
you're out there doing your hikeget up you're you gotta sprint
to one end or the other and thenit's flooded until the rain
fills out because the water willget 20 feet tall in the slot
canyon as it's raining down therock before it can spill out
into the into the Buttes area.

SPEAKER_05 (47:28):
And I just I realized the you mentioned the
wave I was looking at I thoughtI I didn't realize that was
where that was on that CardiButtes.
It's sweet.
I was in a customer's house theother day and they actually had
like a huge picture on the wallit was like six by six yeah like
picture that they had like hesaid his wife took while they

(47:48):
were there.

SPEAKER_01 (47:49):
Wow and they like got it printed out and put on
the wall but I was and I waslike where is that I want to see
that yeah it's a superprivileged thing to do to be
able to go like I was I was weapplied for it for because you
can only apply in advance forthe daily two days in advance
and then you find out the nightof if you got it and then you
have to pick it up the daybefore and you have to pick it

(48:11):
up at like 8 30.
And if you're there if you'relike there 30 minutes late you
don't get it.
That's wild.
Yeah um but yeah it was it wasit was it would have been cool
to do it if you do it you reallywant a guide and the guides
start out like for two peopleit's like bare minimum like 300
bucks but unlike Zion and Brycelike there's no trail you know

(48:35):
there's no like anything else soyou definitely want someone
who's been out there a few timesand knows what they're doing and
knows how to kind of read thethe land in the weather um but
yeah the the we did uh Zionwhich Zion the cool thing about
Zion is that there's like athrough road just like Rocky
Mountain so you know peoplewho've been to Rocky Mountain
National Park have experiencedthis probably where they want to

(48:57):
do the um continental dividethey drive up and then they
could keep on going and exit outthe other side of the park into
like uh Grand County area.
So Zion has like a same thingwhere it's like a three, four
mile road there's like one partof it that is a whole mile long
cave.
Uh it's gotta be longer than theEisenhower tunnel.

(49:18):
It's crazy how long it isthere's no lights.
Wow there's just like cutouts onthe side every I don't know
maybe every thousand feet thatthey've just cut out so the
outside light can shine in itsmells like exhaust.
But um so you can do that andyou pay to enter the park and
drive through to the other sideto the next town.

(49:41):
But then there's a private roadthat is closed outside of uh
November through March and onlybuses can go up it or you know
you can hike or bike up it.
So we went down into Springdalerented e-bikes oh nice and then
we just rode our e-bikes all theway up that park road uh to and

(50:02):
like saw all the stops along thethe bus routes and then got up
to the top where the narrowsstart and then hiked in into the
narrows and got in the water andtook pictures and video and it
started rain there was a flashflood warning so we were like
okay like maybe we don't want tobe in the narrows in the water
if it does start flooding sothen we started riding back and

(50:24):
we had to turn our bikes and weonly had a half day rental but
um it's just downhill the restof the way there and you're just
riding in like complete likepeace and serenity looking at
all of the uh the landscapearound you in the in the canyon
sides you get to you get to seeeverything from that road like
all of the like uh actual um Iwould say what's the word not

(50:49):
monuments but um all the iconsof Zion like the white throne
and uh there's something calledI think it's called like the
thinking man um and there's allthe outcroppings and everything
like the the big stuff andlandmarks that's what I mean
yeah yeah all the landmarks uhand you get to see them all from

(51:09):
the bike and no one's botheringyou and as the buses are pulling
in you just yield to them sothey can go by you and you keep
going.
And it was serene it was sobeautiful.
And the best part too is likeBilly Jean I know is like
comfortable being outdoorsy butshe's never gotten to do
something like that really youknow of like downhill biking

(51:32):
like that through a park and uhjust to hear her like aghast
with like how beautiful it wasand like literally out loud like
wow ooh ah you know what I meanlike it was she was
flabbergasted and it was youknow it wasn't something where
we had to make ourselvesmiserable for it.
Bryce Canyon it was fun.

(51:52):
It was a challenge uh she saidit was harder than um what are
those four 14ers like uh thatyou do at the same time like
Mount it's like Democrat and uhthey're all down in like the
Colorado Springs area if I can'tif I think if I remember
correctly but it's like you dofour peaks up in one day.
Yeah um she said it like theBryce stuff that we did was

(52:15):
harder than that um just becauseof how many switchbacks and the
elevation adjustment in Brycegoing up and down through the
hoodoos.
And I believe her because it wasstrenuous man it it was it was
even for someone who lives atthe that altitude it was
exhausting to to do it.
But we did it in like four and ahalf hours and uh you know it

(52:39):
was it was a really good timebut that one was like busting
our butts like exhausting stuffbut it was worth it and anyone
who goes at Bryce do yourself afavor do it do it all if you can
if you're in the health for it.
People do die though like peopleare like oh like I can do this I
can do the figure eight loop andthen they like are on
switchbacks and they have aheart attack in the heat and

(53:02):
have a heat stroke and there'ssigns all about it everywhere.
And people also die in justgetting too close to the edge of
the hoodoos and falling down.

SPEAKER_05 (53:10):
It's like in peak summer it's hot there.

SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
Oh dude yeah and I mean we were how hot is while
how hot was it when you guyswere the hottest it got up to
was like 80 and we had like someafternoon rainstorms.

SPEAKER_05 (53:20):
So that was late September.

SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
Yeah but like I could I could easily see like
you know if we were there inJune or July it'd be too hot to
like and you would literally dieif you were trying to hike some
of those hoodoo trails.
But it was it was sick and uh itthat was like totally
otherworldly like your brain ishaving a hard time processing it

(53:42):
while you're walking through andlooking at the horizon because
there's so many things betweenyou and the horizon that are
each like all of them areshifting and overlapping with
different depths that like yourbrain is having a hard time
analyzing like how far thingsare way and there was a couple
points where I was walking and Iwas probably tired.

(54:03):
You know probably a littlelightheaded and dehydrated but I
swear to God dude it it lookedlike some of the hoodoos were
like floating into like likepast my nose towards my eyes.

SPEAKER_05 (54:16):
What are hoodoos?

SPEAKER_01 (54:17):
Hoodoos are like those narrow rock stacks okay
that the wind and rain has worndown and they're they're like
kind of look like uh they're inthe beginning of every good
cowboy movie exactly but likeBryce looks like crowns of them
just encircling the whole canyonand there's thousands of them
and the super famous one isThor's hammer that's like the

(54:37):
most famous one that you canlook up a hoodoo but when you're
at their elevation and you'relooking at them and it looks
like they're as tall as you areand there are probably three
miles of them layered over eachother and you can see the sky
through some of them and thenother ones you see more of them

(54:57):
the the effect really does feellike almost I don't want to say
nauseating because it wasn'tnauseating but it gives you
vertigo almost and you're likewhat is if I reached my hand out
my hand would disappear behindthem.
Yeah you know what I mean andit's it's just a very surreal
feeling but it's absolutelygorgeous and very beautiful.

(55:17):
And again super accessible likeboth those parks open 247 and a
lot of people for uh Zionespecially they take the last
shuttle up to the top with theirmountain bike or downhill road
bike and they do it you knowwhenever they want in the winter
when it's dark early and theyjust bomb it down in complete

(55:39):
darkness as well with themoonlight and stars out.
And they say the starlight is sobright there that it will light
up the street for you.
And so like I kind of want to dothat and go back to do that and
bring like a you know bike forit and just go out the end of
the day when it's nighttime andtry to get a good one.
But if you really want to seethe stars don't go end of

(56:00):
September because it was everysingle night rainy clouds and we
never really got to see thestars at all.
But anyways all I said Utahabsolutely gorgeous I totally
underestimated I totally wroteUtah off as probably just having
like the same kind of level ofnational parks we have in
Colorado or California and uh ohman dude it was just unreal it

(56:22):
was it was easily the bestnational parks ever been to yeah
I need to I need to get outthere someday I've never been
and I think I kind of write offUtah like also kind of like just
think a lot of people fromColorado just think Utah's Moab.

SPEAKER_05 (56:35):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (56:36):
And then they're like it's Moab and then it's
Salt Lake City and Mormons andit's way more than that.
It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 (56:43):
And there there is like a lot of nothing too as far
as like the like like whenyou're driving out there there's
like it gets kind of you knowit's just it like it's a you're
in this arid climate for a whilebut then there's you know where
those uh I mean the where youhave you know uh whatever like
Lake Powell and just all thesecanyons and I mean just like

(57:05):
this canyon land.
It's crazy out there.

SPEAKER_01 (57:08):
Um all that and I'm like I like Lake Powell but I do
think like you know you gottahave the perfect season to enjoy
Lake Powell it's I would I wouldI would go nine times out of ten
back to Zion or Bryce instead ofLake Powell just because of
those are probably gonna be alot cooler more often around

(57:30):
like year round than Lake Powellwill be.
Powell's hot man Powell's so hotPowell is one of those places
where like you're dying in theheat and you get in the water to
run away and the water is likeworse somehow.

SPEAKER_05 (57:42):
Yep I was I remember one time I was there was I was
laying under a sheet.
It was the 4th of July were youthere where with this guy this
knucklehead no this is I I wasit was a long time ago I was
there on 4th of July sleeping ontop of a houseboat just dying
just trying to like trying toput a sheet over just a sheet
over myself but it was stilljust like so hot.

(58:02):
See you just taking the sheetoff.

SPEAKER_01 (58:04):
When I was a kid my mom took us out there with some
family and stuff and um we werein a houseboat two but it was
like I think for a spring breakchip.
Mm-hmm and so it was like Marchand the water was freezing dude
it was so freezing cold and thewater was so high because of the

(58:25):
winter runoff there was nobeaches anywhere.
Like we couldn't we had to liketie the houseboat and anchor it
but tie it to like canyon walloh yeah and there was no beach
so you just literally stuck onthe houseboat and or you can
crawl off onto some rocks thatare sticking out but so in the
winter spring Powell sucks.

(58:48):
And in the end of summerPowell's awesome but you're also
like just in swelteringmurderous heat.
You gotta be ready for it.
Yeah it's uh it's an experiencefor sure um yeah I went I went
to Powell Billy Gene and I wewere actually only dating for
like uh maybe like six or sevenmonths at the time but we went

(59:14):
with uh with Bryant Bryant yeahand uh it was a great time um
super fun but it was also one ofthose things where like I've
never been in water that hotbefore and it was it was like
you just couldn't get away fromthe heat there's nothing you
could do because of how hot itwas and it was borderline like
the water made it worsesometimes.

SPEAKER_05 (59:35):
Mm-hmm the uh dude you know back in the day so the
Glen Canyon Dam, you know LakePow's man-made yeah but the um I
wonder what that was like beforethat you know I mean it was wild
there had to be water there.
Oh yeah so there was a riverrunning through the whole thing
right before it was dammed upbut it kind of like so it got

(59:59):
dammed up and then it kind ofhad its heyday of like people
coming out and using it but thenpeople just trashed that thing.
Like really it was um there werecertain coves or different
places like there was like onecove where everybody would go to
like dump all the sewage fromtheir houseboats and stuff.
And like that cove is gnarlythere was a there was one one

(01:00:20):
section of the Do you think it'sstill gnarly?
Like do you think it's stillnasty there's there's there's
like like around the marina andstuff it's it can be I had a
buddy who was he was guiding atrip at Lake Pal and he had like
he um he was was making a runback in to get more ice or
something you know in a boat andthen he filled up his uh can he

(01:00:41):
filled up his now gene with likefrom the spigot on the side of
the marina and then was drinkingit the rest of the day.
Uh and then he like but it wasit was non-potable it was
non-potable water.
It was from it was literally forjust being pumped out of the
marina right there just nastywater.
But also uh uh you didn't getsick from it but he said it was

(01:01:02):
pretty gnarly.
Yeah.
But also one of the coves theyhad back there uh companies
would come use it to dump likethere was this one company that
had giant batteries like thesehundred pound batteries and they
would just dump them in there.
Thousands and thousands ofthousands of pounds of batteries
just in this do they fish thoseout they they kind of did what
they could but sometimes youcan't it's just like sometimes

(01:01:22):
you're swimming and then yourskin burns.
It's just there's like a littleacid a little extra acid in
there.
But so yeah the there's actuallythe history of uh the Glen
Canyon Dam like pals uh it'sit's a pretty like uh it's a
super interesting topic but it'salso it's like a it's a pretty
controversial dam over time andstuff and when it got built and

(01:01:44):
the you know the and dams are acontroversial thing all over
America but like the and it isthere's this thing where it's
like it's sad that I would liketo go back and see it and like
live without the dam and like inthis in this wild world.
And it's also like we got like350 million people that need

(01:02:07):
water.
So we gotta like we gotta get wegotta have water and then like
also then like the thehydroelectric stuff but it's
like the the tension between youknow the I think you do have to
Some reservoirs, you gotta keepkeep water stored up, but then
uh I do want to it would be coolto go back to see what was it

(01:02:27):
like when it was just a just awild place.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:30):
Yeah, yeah.
There's uh I'm I'm gonna try tofind it, but I just watched a
documentary on like dams and thelie of them.
It was something like it wasliterally a documentary on
YouTube, but it was played upplaying off of like the there's
lies, damn lies, and statistics.
And it was literally playing offof that, but with like damn lies

(01:02:50):
instead of damn lies.
Right.
Because a lot of peoplereference the statistics of
water and the watershed and likehow much is needed in reservoirs
to like keep America from likedying of dehydration.
And basically the whole thingwas like we don't need dams.
Dams are literally just a way oflike putting a rate on water.
Like dams are dams are like oneof the most like actually like

(01:03:15):
uh merciless capitalisticthings, and it's like it's not
really capitalist because allsocieties have you know dams,
all all governments have dams atsome point somewhere, but it's
just one of those things that'sprofiteering.
Yeah, it's a profiteering thing,and it's a way of like making
essentially extorting, you know,everyone along a river for for

(01:03:38):
water and like controlling thesupply for it.
Uh be because like the big thingwas it was talking about the
Colorado River and like the damthe damage of damming it has
done to ecosystems, but alsolike if you don't dam the
Colorado River and let it flownaturally, like it would provide

(01:03:59):
water for everybody along thewhole way without needing to be
dammed at all, and like there'dbe plenty of water, but because
we're damming it so much in adifferent points and diverting
it, like it's not reaching itsend, which means it's not making
it to California, where a lot ofthe people who pay for the
Colorado River water is, andessentially you just get to

(01:04:19):
charge people the same, like youget to charge people way more
money for water that would havereached them regardless, but now
you just get to like divert itthrough other systems and
infrastructure to them ratherthan having it just reach them
from the actual river itselfthat flows through the state.
And it was it was reallyinteresting, it was fascinating

(01:04:39):
to me.
I was like, I never thoughtabout it, but then I'm like,
dude, and the way they explainit, they're like, it's the same
thing as diamonds, it's the samething De Beers did with
diamonds, is like theymanufactured water scarcity in
order to like make it alucrative business.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:56):
They it the you know it's easy to be like talk about
people talking about like bigpharma, certain things, but
people don't know about bigwater, big water, man.
Big water, man.
And it's a thing.
Hoover Dam.
Oh, yeah, and just even likelocally on local levels too, the
uh water rights, water shares,watershed stuff is a um it's not

(01:05:18):
a bad business to be in ifyou're on the right side of it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:21):
Dude, there's a great documentary too, uh, about
these two Colorado towns.
It's the towns of Greeley andFort Collins.
And it's a documentary of howthey like went to war back in
the day in the Wild West.
It like Greeley straight up wasgetting in shootouts with Fort
Collins over the water.
And uh it was it was prettycrazy, man.

(01:05:42):
Like did they say who won?
I think Greeley won.
I think Greeley won.
Because Greeley technically ownsmore water rights than Fort
Collins.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:50):
There's a bunch of water all around Fort Collins,
and you go over there, what's itsay?
It's like City of Greeley.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:54):
Yeah, City of Greeley owns it, yeah.
Like, what the heck?
Yeah, there's a I know um on amap, I was looking on a map, and
there's this ditch in the FortCollins area that is just called
the Windsor Ditch.
And it's for the city ofWindsor, and it's just a ditch
that runs all the way in themiddle of town over to like the

(01:06:15):
Greeley side.
And I thought it was prettyinteresting.
Like, do you look at us talkingabout the most like you know, on
the spectrum autismconversations that people
probably don't care about?
But like I know, you know, ifyou're listening to this
podcast, then you know we talkabout a lot of random stuff all
the time.
And if you don't appreciate, youknow, uh a dedicated like
freaking trip out about waterrights, then I don't like you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:39):
Um no, but uh anyways.
Like, and one thing that doeshappen too is like you know how
back in the day it was prettypopular like around mineral
rights, it became a thing whereall of a sudden mineral rights
became so valuable when peopleare pumping oil out of the
ground that they would when theywould sell their land, they

(01:06:59):
would keep the mineral rights.
Yeah.
And there's uh it's almost likenow at this point, like no one's
buying mineral rights with theirland, you're not getting it, you
know, for the most part.
You may depend on where you arein the country, maybe you will,
because it's just there's nochance, but for the most part,
like mineral rights and arecommonly not going to be sold to
you.
The same things happened lateron with water, you know, where

(01:07:21):
where water rights, watershares, when you buy certain
properties and things, peoplewill sometimes keep the water
shares.
Or uh I'm speaking intosomething I actually don't know.
I'm using terminology, I'm notsure that what it defines, but
the you're right.
Because water shares.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:36):
You know who we should have on here?

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:37):
We should have that one guy.
That one guy we know.
I don't want to spoil it.
Is that who it is?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:45):
I don't know.
Oh I'm thinking, I'm thinkinghe's bald and he goes to our
church.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:51):
Oh, is the good shepherd used to go to our
church and he works in water.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:55):
Used to I know that guy.
Yeah, that'd be great toactually have him on too.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:59):
Yeah.
And the uh oh, yeah, we shouldhave the bald guy on too.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:04):
Should have a water episode?

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:05):
We can just talk all water.
I love that.
That'd be hilarious.
I think that'd be great.
I've got even I've got a buddyalso, he runs an irrigation
company.
They just fiction sprinklerheads, you know.
We could we could have them allon.
We got big water and littlewater, and everybody in between,
government water, private,privately owned water,
commercial, and we're gonna talkall about water because I have
thought about back, you know,it's like there's all these

(01:08:27):
things you can invest in, or allthese things you can uh
different new cutting edgetechnologies, whatever to get
behind.
But I think like I've justalways been like, if you could
get in on like beef, water, andlike wood, you can like I take
it back, like just like likesettlers of Catan style.

(01:08:49):
Yeah, like I'm putting all myeggs in the basket of people
need to eat, people need adrink, and people need a roof.
Yeah.
And like, no matter whathappens, you know, we're gonna
need those things.
And if you got got a little bitof that going on, whether
personally or own company and orwhatever, not probably not a bad
thing to be here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:07):
Yeah, dude, I especially like live close to a
lot of farmland that is leased.
That's all leased to like sodcompanies.
I'm like, damn, that'd be sick.
You don't even have to probablywork.
Like just lease your like200-acre plot to a sod company
that can use it every singleyear.
Because sod, you know, sod's notlike corn where like it consumes

(01:09:30):
all the nutrition in the soil.
And so like you're literallyjust like generating topsoil
every year, and it so you justlet them do that every year,
sometimes like twice a summer,even.
Yeah, and uh they pay you torent your land and do it, and
then one day you could be like,all right, like contract's over,

(01:09:51):
we're not renewing.
I'm like turning this into ashoot house, get off my land.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:57):
The big dream.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:59):
Yeah.
Anyways, uh, you recently wentelk hunting.
I did.
How is that?

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:04):
Well, started back when I was 13.
Oh, okay.
Hunting elk.
I'll tell you what, boys, I'mjust bad at it.
God, I'm bad at it.
Never never killed an elk.
It's funny.
So, like, you know, lots ofpeople like I feel like I don't
put it out there too too much.
Like, I like like I don't put onthis thing of like I'm a big
time hunter or whatever, andthen at the same time, I'm

(01:10:26):
always wearing like right now,I'm wearing like hunting company
stuff, whatever.
So, but uh when I have to whenI'm having a conversation with
somebody and they assume that Iam I'm a like a ninja Native
American level hunter of the biggame.
Yeah, I have to break thissecret to them that it's just a

(01:10:48):
horrible, horrible, it's just soembarrassing.
I'm like, they'll be like, like,look at this guy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:52):
This look at this white guy, he's got all the
hunter gear.
Yeah, he can't grow any facialhair.
He's gotta be part NativeAmerican.

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:58):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:59):
I bet he hunts all the time.
Exactly.
I bet he kills stuff all thetime.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:03):
He's a real killer, and you know what?
I've shot one deer.
That was when I was 13 yearsold.
And since then, I have been outto hunt elk more seasons than
I've not.
And so they continue to eludeme.
But sons of bitches.
A couple years ago got intoarchery hunting, archery

(01:11:23):
walking, bow walking.
Yeah.
I switched from rifle walking tobow walking.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:27):
It's good exercise.

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:30):
Um got out there this year, and we I went with my
brother-in-law, and like, let'sget way back in there.
So we got we got we got back inthere off the trail where, you
know, where hunters wouldn't be,um, hopefully, and and we
actually we didn't see anotherhunter for uh five days.
Wow.
Which is pretty like was prettyawesome.

(01:11:52):
But we were and we were in apretty sweet spot uh and at
night elk were bugling duringthe day.
We're bugling at them, they'rebugling back to us and stuff.
We uh we patterned one.
One one night we saw um when wefirst were hiking in, we set up
camp, and as we're setting up,we just got done setting up

(01:12:13):
camp, and I look out, and a bullwalks out into the field 200
yards in front of us.
Damn where our camp is.
Yeah.
Now, one, this was the daybefore season, so we couldn't go
after him, even if we could.
And two, the sun was about to godown, so we wouldn't we're gonna
get him time.
Three, where we were hunting, wewere on a game unit line.

(01:12:35):
So we were camping on one sideof a creek, he and the creek was
the game unit dividing line.
He came out on the other side ofthe creek.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:42):
So he's on someone's private land?

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:44):
Uh just different uh public land, but different game
unit.
A get different unit that wewere did not have a tag for.
And so we watched him feed downas the sun went down to to
darkness where he reallycouldn't see anymore.
He he went across, he never sawus, we got super quiet, and we
watched him feed down across andthen go come on to our side.

(01:13:05):
And then we watched him sneakoff up into the woods, and we're
like, holy smokes, we're campingright where the elk are, which
isn't necessarily good.
We're a little too close.
Sure.
Um, because they're gonna smellus and they're all gonna leave.
But we sleep that night, there'selk bugling all around us all
night long.
So we wake up in the morning andwe decide to get away from our

(01:13:25):
we we did hunt that that thatfield in the morning to watch if
anything came out.
Nothing came out, so then wewent on a little walk about and
we we were hearing elk bugle, wewere talking to him back and
forth, just couldn't close thedistance on him.
And then we decided that nightwe were gonna go back to that
same spot where that bull hadcome out.
And so we go and we get set upon this on this line where there

(01:13:51):
was just a little stand of treesin this big meadow, and get my
brother-in-law set up in thereabout 50 yards from the creek,
and then I got back in the treesabout 150 yards, 200 yards away
from the creek.
So I was calling back there, andthen we're sitting and then
we're quieting down, and thesame bull pops out again.

(01:14:11):
And this little stand of treeswhere we set my brother-in-law
up in was right where he hadwalked through the night before.
So we were like, if he does theexact same thing, he's a dead
elk.
We got him.
And so he feeds down, crossesthe creek, and um I'll tell from
my brother-in-law's perspectivenow, because I'm back and I can
see him feeding down.

(01:14:32):
And this elk is coming andcoming, and but he's coming
straight on at him, which he andand he's below him.
So even if you were gonna take afrontal shot, which is um some
people fully frown upon it, itis a super deadly shot, but you
have to hit basically the sizeof a softball.
Yeah, right, basically an Adam'sapple of the elk.

(01:14:53):
But if they're facing you andyou're above them, their nose is
blocking that frontal shot zone.
So he's waiting, he's waiting,and then that elk comes up to
that stand of trees and comesaround to the right of him.
And as it's coming around theright, he's kind of moving
around the trees to keep cover.

(01:15:15):
And the elk, he can see theelk's head now, the elk can't
see him and not looking at him.
And the wind is perfect, wind isblowing just right in our face
and down and or up, and there'sno problems.
Um and then the elk stops, andall he has to do is take two
more steps.
My brother-in-law is a full drawfor a minute, just holding

(01:15:37):
there, waiting for just waitingfor him to take two more steps
at 20 yards.
He's right there.
And then Elk stops and justturns around and walks back the
way he came.
Doesn't run fast, but he justturns around and starts walking
the way he came.
Check wind, the wind shifted onhim right at the last second.

(01:15:58):
All we needed was two moresteps.
But here's the thing about elk.
If the wind's blowing the rightis blowing towards them, you
they'll smell you from 300 yardsaway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:16:08):
If it's going towards them, they can smell
you.
If it's coming, if it's blowingin your favor, they won't smell
you.
They'll they'll especially ifit's a a rutting bull, they're
they're gonna walk 10 feet fromyou and not smell you.
Um, but the wind swirled, wentright to that elk, and he just
he walked off and he didn't hedidn't run off.

(01:16:30):
We didn't really bust him outtoo bad.
He just turned around and walkedoff.
He was uncomfortable, smelledsomething he didn't like, and
got out of there.
But man, 20 yards, full draw.
No, from right there.
How high above was yourbrother-in-law from the elk?
At the from like when it wascoming to him.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:46):
Like, was he like 10 feet above it?
Treed?

SPEAKER_05 (01:16:49):
Basically, no, no, so basically, just because it
was he was coming up from acreek bed, yeah, that elevation
difference, you know, from wherehe was standing to the creek was
probably just four or five feetdown, but just the angle wasn't
there for a true frontal.
In the frontal shot, you reallyshould take 20 yards and in.
Like you're not dropping a bombat him if you're gonna do it.

(01:17:12):
And you if you do a frontal, youbetter do it right, or you're
just you're just gonna wound himbad and never find him again.
And then he was never turning,he was just frontal the whole
time.
And so he was hoping that hewould come up past him down from
him, and then that'd be thebroadside shot.
And the thing about arrowsversus bullets is you with an

(01:17:32):
arrow, you really gotta yourshot placement's gotta be a lot
more accurate than a bullet.
Um one, just the straight likekill power or impact, which
would be bullets kill by cuttingstuff and bleeding out, bullets
kill by concussion, by trauma.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:51):
The um what's it called?
The uh it's the something shockum blanking.
But it's why it's why a smallround like two two three kills
people.
But like some people can take,you know, like sometimes you can
take a slower round without thatshock factor that is bigger,
right?
But it won't it won't drop youdead.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:10):
Like a 30.6 hunting round has a 17-inch circle
behind it.
Yeah, that it really does.
It's but when that bullet hits,there's a 17-inch circle that's
blowing through and concussingand displacing the liquid in the
body and and uh you know givingtrauma to the to the body.
Um and so with an arrow, you'retypically gonna be killing it by

(01:18:34):
you're gonna be killing byhaving something bleed out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:36):
Fuck.
I am an idiot.
I'm on Google Images looking atimages of the res the Glenn
reservoir or whatever.
Uh-huh.
And I was like, word for termfor the shock.
Uh it's hydrostatic shock.

SPEAKER_05 (01:18:51):
Hydrostatic shock, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:52):
But I was like, term for some for blank shock
regarding bullet wound, and thenit just was a bunch of wounds of
bullet wounds on Google Images,just like lost my legs.
Yeah, hydrostatic shock is likea lot of the time is what will
kill.

SPEAKER_05 (01:19:03):
It's displacing water fast in your body.
Yeah.
And so so anyway, so that and sothen the second piece of that
being um also penetration.
Bullet, you know, a 30 out 6 isgonna blow right through the the
shoulder, all the way throughthe animal.
But with that arrow, you gottabe back behind the shoulder bone
and and sneaking it into thelungs and hopefully the heart.

(01:19:26):
But if you're too far back, thenyou're in the guts.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:29):
So well, that was kind of like I was wondering too
of like it could you becauseI've I know hunters have, I
don't know if it's necessarilythe ethical thing, but like from
a top-down angle from a treestand shot through the the
spinal cord of an animal towhere the heart would be.
You can't like done that shotbecause they knew the
hydrostatic shock would probablystill stop the animal's heart

(01:19:53):
even if they miss a little bit.
But you're also like you'resevering the spine so it's not
running off.
And you could easily finish itwith a second shot.
Whereas like I was wondering,like, I mean, I've seen the
gelatin stuff of like broadheadarrows easily going through a
human spinal cord in a gelatintest, right?
Yep.
But I just was like, I don'tknow if they'd go through, you

(01:20:14):
know, uh a land mammal, like adeer or elk in like their kind
of you know, titanium spinalcord.

SPEAKER_05 (01:20:21):
It it depends on your arrow weight and a couple
things, but uh the typicallyyou're not gonna get a pass
through, and or like for thattype of shot, you really need to
be up a lot higher versus justlike he was just a little
elevated where you couldn't getthat shot down on him.
But that elk blew out as ano-go.
No-go wandered off into thewoods, the sun went down.

(01:20:42):
Was that what day was that foryou guys?
Day one of hunting.
No way.
So, like, so there was nightone, night, yeah.
So day one, it was a great dayone to leave me on the hook.
It was just like, oh my gosh,we're gonna make this happen.
So then day two, we go on a bigwalkabout again because we want
to get out of our little valley.
Um, because there were multiplebulls that were about three to
five hundred yards away from us,bugling and talking to us all

(01:21:04):
day, but they were across thatcreek.
So we couldn't go like try to wecouldn't cross the creek and try
to go get them.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:21:10):
Um, either out of our unit.
So we went on another walkabout.
We saw uh we blew out a herd ofsix of them and and uh six cows
and a bull, um, just uh, youknow, tromping through the
forest.
And then that night we come backdown and we get set up again,
and so we get my brother-in-lawin like the same spot.
We're like, he didn't the elkdidn't run away crazy fast, you
know.
So we'll see if he's blown outor not, if he's coming back to

(01:21:33):
see if he it's a long shotbecause we disturbed him, but he
didn't run out of there like abat out of hell.
So we get him set up down inthat tree, and then a I'm
sitting back, and another uhbull comes out down valley from
him about 300 yards down fromhim.

(01:21:53):
But the trees he's in, he can'treally put a stock on it.
So I'm back in the tree line.
I book it down there, and thiselk is just wallowing in the
mud.
He's just he's having a good oldday.
This elk was so happy.
He was bucking, kicking, runningaround, rolling on his back,
super happy, sprinting back andforth.
And so then I get in thesetrees, and I'm and I I'm about

(01:22:15):
200 yards away from him still,and I thought that he had left
because he bolted off reallyfast, but he and so I give a cow
call and a bugle, and then I seehim that he's that he hadn't
blown out, he was actually downin the creek.
And so then I I move downthrough the trees, checking my

(01:22:36):
wind the whole way, wind's in myface, we're doing good, it's
perfect.
And I do another cow call, and Isit and wait for a second, don't
see anything, and I and I needto push up a little further to
get in a good spot where I'llhave a have a lane to shoot in
the trees I'm in.
And as I'm pushing up, I I seehis antlers, but still kind of

(01:22:58):
far off, just down in the creek.
So I I get down in these treesand I'm check my wind, we're
still good, and then I hitanother cow call, and then I
wait just a sec just a littlebit, a little bit of time, and I
peek out to see.
I'm like, all right, let's seeif he's coming.
He he had already came.

(01:23:20):
He was 40 yards from me.
He didn't see me, so I sneakback down in, pull an arrow,
knock the arrow, and I'm gettingready to just wait and have him
keep walking up.
And uh, it's kind of the samegame plan.
He's coming on front to me.
I'm hoping he's gonna come up inthis opening in the trees.

(01:23:42):
And as I knock my arrow, I grabmy wind one more time and check
my wind with my little puffer.
And as it goes up, like the thisthese it's basically like you
know, talcum powder in a bottle.
So I squeeze it, it goes up, andit's going the right way, and
then it just starts going thewrong way, right down to him,

(01:24:03):
and he just stops in his tracksat about about 35 yards at this
point, and he just bolts out ofthere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:11):
What are what are the are there scent laws in
Colorado about like scents youcan use to cover yourself for
certain game?
You you're allowed to.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:20):
You can use scents to cover yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:21):
It just But is it like what's the line between
that and then like quote unquotebaiting?
Like if I cover myself in cowpiss.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:28):
No, you can you can do it.
That's it's not technicallybaiting in that sense, and so
you can do it just with elk.
Honestly, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:36):
They just if I cover myself in elk cow piss, yeah, it
doesn't want to come over andsee that I'm a beautiful.
There's actually there arewarnings.

SPEAKER_05 (01:24:45):
There are warnings on the bottle that are like do
not apply on your body, youknow.
This elk will rut you.
Yeah, uh rut enough elk it couldhappen.
But um, and so it it can work,but it usually even that scent
cover stuff, or even like scent,you you have a special like
scent-free, not just scent freedetergent, but like sent-away
detergent stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:05):
It kind of works, but I've always heard that the
best way to really pull coyotesin because coyotes are so smart
out here in Colorado and knowexactly the boundary lines
pretty much of like private landversus public land, that like
the best way to really getcoyotes is to use piss and like
whether it's your own dog's pissor something, like just get like

(01:25:26):
pour piss out there and they'llcome looking for it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:28):
It can definitely help attract stuff in, and with
other species it works well, butwith elk in particular, it's
just not a big part of the game.
It's like if the wind, the windis king, and if it's blowing the
right way for you, you're good.
If it's blowing the wrong way,it's game over.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25:46):
And so wind shifted, game over.
We and so that elk went off intothe woods, and we uh for the
next couple days it was rainingand we hiked out of there.
We saw some elk on our way out,but they were they were pretty
far away and they were bookingit out of there, and uh we got
out of there, and so we didn'tget an elk.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:07):
But you guys had a good time cuddling in the tent,
didn't we?

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:09):
We did a good time in the cuddling the tent.
I shot a grouse.
That was pretty fun.
Shot a grouse, we cut it up, atethat thing out there, had a
meal, made a stew.
Um, then we uh we got home anduh the next morning.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:22):
Yeah, dude, you were sick.
I remember you got so sick.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:25):
I farted in bed.
But but it wasn't a fart.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:29):
No way.

SPEAKER_05 (01:26:30):
You actually shit the bed?
I did, and I was like, oh no.
Because here's the deal we'dbeen we'd been drinking from
that creek all week.
Yeah, we've been filtering ourwater, but sometimes you mess up
a little and the filter doesn'twork, or something happens.
I'm like, oh no.
So then I go, like, you know,get cleaned up, or maybe it's a

(01:26:50):
one-off.
It wasn't, comes back aroundwith a vengeance, and it's just
no effort, no, no, no bearingdown, no controlling.
No nothing.
And it's just it's coming out,it's free-flowing.
Oh man.
I'm like, I don't know what Ihave, and uh, I was prepping
myself for Jardia, the long weekof Jardia, and day two of that,

(01:27:13):
I was just I I already told you,but I was hugging the PD light
bottle in the shower and wafflestomping to save my life, too.
So gross.
There was there was no reason toget out of the shower.
Yeah, you'd get out of theshower, have to go again, get
back in the shower.
Oh my gosh.
So do God bless Mace Windu.
Yeah, luckily it only held outfor only held out for about two

(01:27:36):
and a half days.
It went away.
Did you actually have to get newsheets?
No, it you kept it in yourtrousers.
It stayed contained, luckily.
But uh, yeah, so that's crazy,man.
It happens.
That's nice.
It happens to me more often thanothers.
It's true, it does.
But um uh my brother-in-law gota little bit of it too, whatever
it was, it passed quicker forhim.

(01:27:57):
But yeah.
So there's the that's the elkhunting for this year.
Dude.
So now once again, how long isrifle season?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:04):
Because I know a lot of guys who've got rifle tags
and they were on private landfor early rifle, but I just but
none of them got anything yet.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:11):
So there's a couple different types of rifle tags
here.
Typically, you have fourseasons, um, and they're each
about basically seven to tendays long.
Okay, got it.
So um it starts with you havearchery and your archery tag you
have for a whole month.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:28):
And then in the middle that's muzzle loader for
about two weeks.
Then there's a little break, andthen first, second, third,
fourth rifle.
And so I do, I there's stillhope for I have a buck tag for
rifle.
Nice.
And my brother-in-law informedme today that the unit I got it
for has an 87% success rate.

(01:28:49):
No way.
Which I'll tell you, foursuccess rates, like a good elk
unit is like 30% success rate.
Wow.
So if that's huge, I'm excitedfor the possibilities.
Yeah.
I'm also I'm I have a deep fearof being further shamed.
Yeah.
Because if I go into this goodof a place, this good of a

(01:29:13):
place, and I can't make ithappen.
What's that say?
It actually it's honestly.
I hate it so much, dude.
It it it tears at my manhood.
I've gotta kill something.
I'm still in the bloodlustphase.
At this point in my life, mostguys who've hunted this long,
you're supposed to go throughthe phases where it's like early

(01:29:34):
on, it's just like you just andyou you're excited, you just you
just want to kill something,just kill it, you know, and then
then you then you get then therethen you kind of get you've
you've got some under your belt,now you're kind of more
appreciating the nature more,and you really respect the
animal and you want to, youknow, uh uh preserve the
habitat, respect the animal, andand maybe, you know, be
selective even about what youkill, because maybe you can take

(01:29:56):
a more mature bull out of theherd, you know, that that's
already, you know, been able toum have progeny and so it's it's
spread its genes and now youngerbulls can come in.
You're thinking more like that.
And then you as a you get to thenext stage where you're like,
you know what?
I'm I'm I'm fine if I just takea picture of it, maybe.
I love getting out there.
I want to be around the animalso much.
I just you know, if you thesekind of the stages of it.

(01:30:18):
Yeah.
And I'm just stuck back in this.
I I dude, I'm gonna I'm justgonna I'm just gonna kill that
thing.
Yeah, and because I gotta haveto I have to prove to myself and
those around me that I am I'm aman, damn it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:29):
I get you.
I get you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:31):
So we'll see.
It'll be it'll be wounding tothe ego if we can't make it
happen at the 87% success rateunit.
So that's what we shall see.
That's coming up uh beginning inNovember.
It's gonna be a cold hunt.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:44):
I was gonna say that's a cold, cold hunt, man.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:46):
It's gonna be cold.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:47):
I was really flattered.
My father-in-law invited me tocome with him next year.
Oh, yeah?
And like, not just him, but likehis group.

SPEAKER_05 (01:30:53):
Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:54):
So I'm like, all right, I think I'm gonna do it.
I think I'll go my first one.
I might not even like I mean,I'll try to like poll for
something for that unit, buteven if I don't, I'm just stuck
to like going.
Be a part of it.
Definitely.
It's awesome.
It's never never been on a huntlike that.
Like only thing I've ever huntedis small game.
So but yeah, it'll be I I thinkyou know, even though you didn't

(01:31:18):
get anything, man, that's stilllike a cool thrilling trip.

SPEAKER_05 (01:31:21):
It was.
It was the closest we've gotten.
It was right there.
It was at our fingertips.
But uh now we gotta wait another52 weeks, you know, to get a
chance at it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:31):
Well, you know, I'm really happy that we both
enjoyed our walk in the woods,walk in nature.
Oh yeah.
Um you know, I hope peoplelisten to this, and even if like
they don't care too much aboutlike the specific hunting
experiences or the specifictrail experiences in National
Parks that it gives them atleast the yearning to go out and

(01:31:51):
do it.
So um with that, want to sayagain, thanks again for joining
us.
Hope that you are enjoying thisfall season and getting out
there and doing fun things,seeing the the colors, uh, going
tree peeping, whatever you wantto do.
Um but get out there and spendsome time, get off social media,
get off get away from the news,and enjoy uh time with family um

(01:32:14):
and a little bit of isolation inthe in the wilderness.
Uh but with that, thanks forPat, you got anything for the
kin?

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:23):
Till next time.

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