January 1, 2026 • 62 mins
A stripped hillside can change a life more than a broken wall. That’s the image that frames our conversation as Dean returns from Jamaica’s mountain communities and walks us through the quiet disaster most headlines missed: fruit trees leveled, tin roofs torn, and families suddenly cut off from the food they used to pick outside their doors. We talk about what disappears when the forest goes bare—bananas, mangos, coconuts—and how long it takes to coax a harvest back. Eight to twelve months is a long time when kids need lunch tomorrow.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
I didn't know you had a cat.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Got two of 'em.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
What's your cat's name?
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Uh Momo and Tippy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Nice.
Is it Momo from The Last Avatar?
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Uh no, because I've never actually seen it, but she
looks exactly like Momo from TheLast Avatar.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Bro, I'll say this.
The season one of the liveaction made me cry.
I got insane.
Yeah, both me and Billy Jeanboth cried while watching it.
It gave us insane nostalgia.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
I've never I've also never seen it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Oh, dude, she does look like Momo.
Yeah, same color.
That's crazy.
Oh yeah.
Honestly, that is probably likethe best show to watch with your
kids, too, Pat.
Oh yeah.
Like, because it is so gradualin the introduction of the more
like growing up themes.
So, like, you know, dealing withdeath and a loved one passing on
(01:39):
and first love stuff like that.
But that all like is introducedover the course of like each
season just gets a little bitolder.
And you could really take yourtime with your kids and just let
them watch, like, you know,really like one season a year
and grow up together.
But uh, I think it's a greatshow for for like families to
(02:00):
watch together.
And I personally believe thatjust because I see Billy Jean's
family and they all watched justget together, like you know,
families would watch Survivor,and it really brought that whole
family very close in like a waywhere like Survivor.
Well, you know, a lot offamilies grew up watching
Survivor together, you know whatI mean?
But um and so now like they'veall had all their pets named
(02:24):
after characters from Avatar andlike uh Christmas gifts that
were you know based around theshow and stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
What's the big uh flying Opa?
Yeah, what is it?
It's a flying weapon.
It's like a bison bisonplatypus.
Yeah, it's a bison, flyingbison.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good name.
Yeah, uh my like my wife, theircats are Sokka and Katara.
And then are they Siamese cats?
No.
No, they're not they're not thesame species.
Um, but anyways, uh great show.
(03:05):
Uh what were we talking about?
Oh, we're talking about puttingyour mouth on your cat's head.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Is what we were talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
I did start uh it is like I don't know, man.
It there's something about yourpet and just the familiarity of
it.
Like, it is really like just amatter of time before you start
like biting your animal.
Because I like I straight upwhen I'm playing around with my
dog, I will like bite one of herbig floppy ears.
(03:35):
Oh yeah.
And not like really hard, butjust enough to get her to like
instigate it so we can like playaround and wrestle.
Um I don't know.
It's like it's kind of like Ihave no control over it.
SPEAKER_03 (03:48):
Yeah, once I'll I'll I'll bite my cat's like ear, but
just like with my lips becausethey're so like thin.
Yeah, not to actually hurt them.
See if I can get a rise out ofthem.
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
Exactly, exactly.
Uh Ken, in case you haven'trealized, Dean's here in the
studio with us.
And uh Dean Dean uh has been onthe podcast a few episodes
before.
Gosh, like almost like a dozennow, I bet.
I bet not a dozen, half a dozen.
But uh Dean, you just got backfrom a trip to Jamaica.
(04:19):
And you know, honestly, uhknowing more about how um just
much damage was caused from thelatest hurricane uh season that
swept over it.
I think you know, Pat and I bothhad the conversation was like,
(04:40):
oh, like be good to have likesomeone who had some first hand
like eyewitness stuff about it.
Cause I just don't think a lotof people it didn't it didn't
have almost any coverage in thenews cycle.
Yeah, no, it didn't.
And so I don't think anyone'sreally aware of um, you know,
just the damage that uh a lot ofthe Jamaica technically Bahamas
(05:04):
region.
SPEAKER_03 (05:05):
It's in the Caribbean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
The Caribbean, yeah.
Um I don't think a lot of peopleare aware of like the damage
some of the Caribbean nationswent through with that.
SPEAKER_03 (05:13):
So really kind of constantly through, to be
honest, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Just constantly through it.
Just how other like year in andyear out.
There's different differentislands getting smashed.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah, yeah, but it's not like uh I don't think you'd
be races as much, right?
Like like this was a prettystrong one from what I
understand.
Um but also we're happy just tohave you on to just chat and
catch up, and there's a lot ofthings in the last couple weeks
that we could talk about goinginto the holiday season where
(05:43):
we'll take a little bit ofhiatus.
Um, but anyways, happy thatyou're here, dude.
Always a pleasure to have youhere.
It's been a while eating somehomemade cookies.
Yeah, you'll if you didn't hearmy munching already.
That's alright.
Um, anyways, so uh let's talkabout it.
Yeah, we don't really have likeany specific questions organized
(06:04):
or anything like that that wewon't like want to like have you
go through.
Like we didn't have anythingprepped.
It's more just like want tolisten to you know, really what
is the status, you know, andwhat is it like on the ground
there in Jamaica, especiallybecause you said I remember you
had gone before six years ago.
(06:25):
Yeah, right.
So you so you kind of have seenyou have a good way of comparing
like you know the the differencebetween you know half a dozen
years.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
And was that with the church when you went?
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Okay, so you went on like one of the first ones or
yeah, I think it was the secondone.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Okay.
And then um I've been two othertimes as well apart from the
church.
Okay.
So I've been quite a few times.
Uh the two things that I thinkwere the most surprising, um one
of which was more surprisingthan the other one, but just
when when really stronghurricanes come through, uh you
(07:02):
tend to think more of like thestructural building damage.
But really what ends up beingreally devastating for in this
case a lot of the mountaincommunities, because the
hurricane did most of the damageup in the hills, and is really
just how the vegetation justgets pretty much ripped out of
(07:23):
the ground.
Um and so it's like after yousee a forest fire where the
trees are just like naked, it'salmost the same thing.
Um, because the trees are kindof ripped in half, like the
banana trees, which are mostlywater, are um are ripped out of
the ground um or laying flat.
(07:44):
So really the forest, which istypically pretty full and plush,
just looks pretty naked.
And that causes a ton of issuesbecause it's ultimately a lot of
the food, a lot of the fruit andthe things that they're growing
in the forest.
Um, so food ends up being prettydifficult for a lot of those
mountain communities.
Um and the other thing is thatuh a lot of their roofs, if they
(08:08):
can't afford a concrete roof,then they have uh they have tin
roofs.
Um so those, if you get likeeven the slightest bit of wind
catching those, it'll rip thewhole roof off, basically.
So uh a lot of the shelters upthere are pretty pretty mangled.
(08:31):
If they don't get ripped offwith the wind, the tree might
fall on them.
Um so they don't none of themhave power and because they're
trying to fix a lot of the powerin the sit like the city or some
of the coastal areas.
So those mountain communitiesreally just don't have any power
right now, and typically only ahandful of places within those
(08:51):
mountain communities will have agenerator.
Uh not most of the houses don't.
So yeah, it's it's prettydevastating.
I think a lot of a lot of thepeople there went without food
for um for a while are prettylimited food.
Um you can't just go and takesome bananas from the trees or
go to your typical mango tree orbecause they're pretty dependent
(09:13):
on like subsistence living inthe area.
Yeah, yeah, especially a lot offoraging.
Yeah, like there's but there'sbanana trees everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Yeah, it the thing I think I'm trying to grasp here
is like there's orchardseverywhere around here right
now.
Like where we live in inColorado, there's orchards
everywhere.
But you can't just walk up tothem and grab whatever you want,
right?
Like that's someone's property,someone's livelihood, and
someone's food that they'regrowing to either sell or
(09:42):
sustain themselves.
And so it sounds like though inJamaica, like it's not someone's
property and someone's tree.
SPEAKER_03 (09:49):
It's that like the it's a combo of both.
Like some people have theirproperties and you're you're
kind of living on a little bitof it's it's not so much a farm,
but you have you'll like you'llplant these trees in your
backyard that you're using forfor food.
(11:39):
Um, and they've like all sortsof fruit, basically, at the end
of the day, and and then coconutas well.
Uh, but the rest of the forestas well has its vegetation,
maybe not as specific as thethings that you've planted in
your yard, but everything'smangled, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Like and and no one owns this other stuff in the
forest?
Like it's like just I don't knowfor sure.
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (12:01):
Uh but there's forests, you're up in the
mountains, so it's foresteverywhere.
It's it's like if you were to goto a cabin or something here
where majority of the forestaround you is like pretty uh
pretty unoccupied.
Um like you have thesecommunities and there's like
some roads and stuff goingthrough it, but a lot of a lot
of the forest around um is gonnabe pretty pretty open.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Cause when you because the and also because
this I mean like lots of peoplehave like maybe been to Jamaica
and like been to a resort,right?
You know, or like seen picturesof it.
And like the these mountainvillages are are they pretty
starkly different?
Or just like or like or justlike like how as far as like
what was what's access likegetting there?
Like what and like what wouldlike the um and compared like
(12:49):
infrastructure compared to likewherever, like if you're like on
like on Tigo Bay or something,yeah, you know, versus like
these um what's that what'stheir it's a little village,
it's like six thousand people orsomething in the whole city or
maybe and they're pretty spreadout too.
SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
So um these people are kind of all over the place.
But a lot a lot of these peoplewill go back and forth to the
city to get stuff if they need,and then whenever a storm
happens, like roads might be cutout, the power's out, um the
buses might not be running atall.
Um, so there's not really foodcoming and going.
They kind of just have theresources that are around them.
(13:28):
And in this case, there's notlike grocery stores or anything.
Like you might have like somelocal stores with like snacks,
like drinks, like beer andstuff, like kind of just like
corner stores basically.
But it's not gonna be like ayour typical grow grocery store
that you go to to pick up stufffor cooking.
Um and so it's it's it's just ait's a very minimalist
(13:54):
lifestyle, uh like because ofpoverty ultimately.
Um like you don't you don't havelike a j a big kitchen with like
gas or anything like readilyavailable, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Yeah, are are they pretty much still uh like
powering everything from propanefor the most part?
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, and um yeah, and in this case for the
people that do have generators,like they're using that for
their lights and stuff.
Um but then it's probably hardpretty hard to get gas, or
you've got to make a lot oftrips back and forth from the
city to get gas.
Um what about what about likewater?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Like what's the water infrastructure like?
Like, do they have like wellsthat feed into individual
properties that they dig, or isit like there's a lot of springs
in the area?
SPEAKER_03 (14:45):
Oh, there is a few primary ones in this community
that people go to, and that'swhere they'll go to like uh
collect their water, or they'llgo and bathe.
Like it's like a spring justkind of like shooting out of the
hillside.
And so um, some people will gowash their clothes there, uh
bathe there, collect water tobring it back to um wherever.
(15:07):
So stuff like filters and stuffare really helpful um for them.
Some springs are cleaner thanothers, so uh some are like
gonna be primarily used forbathing.
And it's not like it's not likea pool that you're in where it's
like somebody's bathing inthere.
It's like the water's kind ofshooting out of the mountain, so
you're just like kind ofstanding there, like letting it
splash you, um, or like rinsingyour water because they've kind
(15:28):
of like um irrigated it down orsomething where you can wash
your your clothes and stuff inthere.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
It's not like it's not like India where people are
like bathing and pooping in theGanges.
Right.
And then still the same peopleare like scooping water out of
it to cook later.
Right.
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Um that's rough.
So because this was in in thebecause in the past you went
with our church to do, you know,a mission trip there.
Um what was the how did you Iget this trip kind of got put
together pretty fast.
I think like what was did umhow'd you end up on this trip or
what and what was the mainmission of the trip and you know
(16:05):
what would it look like beforeyou guys headed out there and
what were you doing there?
SPEAKER_03 (16:09):
Uh my perspective is a bit limited because I was
actually I was I was travelingfor work when I got invited.
So I was in I was in Vietnam fora week and then the following
week I was in Indonesia.
Um and so I came back for lessthan a week, and it was kind of
a pretty last-minute decision.
They're like, hey, like we'vegot a few people going, do you
(16:29):
want to go?
Uh I had wanted to go on thelast trip that they were on, but
didn't.
Um so this time I was like,yeah, I'll I'll go, I'll make it
work.
Uh it wasn't gonna be a reallybig work trip.
Sometimes you go for like a prolike the team's doing a project
and everybody's gonna focus andrallying behind that.
But this was a little bit lessof that.
It was mostly bringing suppliesand seeing what work needed to
(16:52):
be done, and then future tripswould be for doing that work.
Uh so this one was just like sixof us, and they were they they
did the other five did all ofthe work for gathering the
supplies.
Um so whenever I came back, itwas kind of um I went back to
catch up at work essentially,and then we just then we just
left from there and took all thesupplies.
(17:12):
There was a lot of supplies.
There was like probably there'sprobably 20.
There's like black and yellowbins.
Yeah.
That we tote bins.
Yeah, that we took on theflight.
Um, which went pretty smooth,actually.
I thought it was gonna be anightmare, right?
It went pretty smooth.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Because I didn't know, I'm pretty sure there's a
thing.
There's something with airlineswhere like if you're doing
relief work, cost is lower, youcan call them and tell, like,
hey, we're bringing the seven.
Yeah, yeah, they can it's uh Idon't know if it yeah, if it
they they either lower the costor sometimes maybe they comp it
all the way.
I'm not sure, but like I didn'tI just I'd never the way that
like uh airlines are so almostlike becoming like the mafia
(17:51):
like mobsters on like onbaggage, uh but like the uh it's
a good thing to know about toyou know that you can you can
use uh use that resource andyeah this this particular
airline did not do that, andthat was kind of a surprise.
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Yeah, uh you can name them name.
This is the whole point of thispodcast is that you could say
shit like that.
Frickin' American.
It's like the the second that'snot surprising.
I'm pretty greedy.
Yeah, I flew American comingback from Australia when I was
in Indonesian.
I was also pretty butthurt onthat flight, too.
That one was kind of brutal.
I usually fly United, and Ithink I'm gonna I'm gonna stick
with that to be honest.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
I'm always doing Southwest or United if I have
to, but yeah, no, I I rememberduring uh COVID when it was
first kicking off.
Um and uh oh sorry, no, itwasn't COVID.
It was uh a few Christmases ago,Billy Jean and I were flying and
(18:48):
Southwest had their giantmeltdown, right?
Do you remember all theirsystems crashed?
Like there was like thousands ofpeople stuck in DIA.
Uh while that was happening,dude, we saw we were watching
real-time American airlinesincrease coach tickets up to
like four grand.
(19:09):
So if you wanted if you wantedto get out and get on one of the
airlines, you had to pay fourgrand to like not even ride in
first class.
It's insane.
Yeah, it was in it was unreal.
You can't waste a good tragedy.
Nope.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
You know what we should have done?
We should have we should havestarted bargaining with them
during COVID whenever theirprices were playing be like,
mmm, I'll give you 58 bucks forthis ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So then how many how many dayswere you guys you guys there?
Uh just five.
Just five days.
Yeah, it was a quick one.
Sunday, Sunday through Thursday.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
What did go ahead.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
What primarily were like the supplies you guys would
bring in or Yeah, a lot oftools, uh a lot of food.
So dry foods like rice, flour,sugar, uh tuna, like canned
tuna, um beef sticks, you know.
Uh man, I eat uh beef sticks andcan tuna for a few meals.
(20:08):
Uh yeah, a lot of dry foods andthen uh tools and supplies um
primarily.
Because we'll end up using whenwe were there, the work that we
were doing, which was prettyminimal compared to work on
future and past trips, uh, wasmostly clearing, um, so clearing
(20:29):
out trees, vegetation, stuff sothat they could re replant at
the church.
Because they supply a lot offood too.
So um there was just debris likeall over uh all over like a
little bit of property that theyhad.
So we're just trying to clean itup so that they could replant
some banana trees and stuff.
The pastor there, he's uh youcan tell he's definitely um a
(20:50):
farmer at heart.
He loves it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Oh, I was gonna say m I was wondering, you know,
what was the level oflawlessness or uh community
insecurity compared to whenyou've been before, because I
remember they for some reasonthe picture they decided to show
before, you know, you guys allwent was the picture and they
(21:15):
were trying to raise money insupplies.
It was a picture of the pastordown in Jamaica would just walk
around with machete lookingmean.
Like looking mean, dude.
And like they made it, it kindof like I don't think that our
church meant to make it soundlike and it's dangerous.
Like he he they need help,right?
But I it kind of looked like itwas like he's he's roaming with
(21:36):
the machete to fucking banditsoff, you know?
I don't mean to make a joke,right?
But I was wondering like whatwhat you know is is the
community like pretty much likeself-policing really well or
like was it were you down therewhere you're like yeah, it was
actually like a lot less safethan it we previous times we
were down there.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
It felt it felt pretty tame, but then again,
like right after the hurricanehad happened.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
Right, because it was a how what what day did when
it's because it's been a month?
Yeah, it's been about a month.
About a month, so kind of thatinitial like couple days could
have been could have been prettywild.
SPEAKER_03 (22:10):
Yeah, I have no idea.
Um yeah, things were pretty tamewhen I was there, and you can
tell that like a lot of the kidsand stuff.
Like they're pretty prettythey're not like outwardly very
hungry, but they'll ask you forsnacks a lot.
Um and uh yeah, like they'lltake they'll take food like any
(22:32):
chance they'll ask for it andthey'll look for it.
So the assumption is thatthey're they're not eating super
well at home.
Uh nobody said that.
Is that different than the pastwhen you've been there?
Like like mo it it seemed likeit.
Yeah.
And maybe I wasn't as aware likelast time we were there, we
weren't really eating sna likeour own snacks.
(22:54):
Like the church was making foodfor us when we were there.
Um, so I don't recall peopleasking a lot for food.
And it could have been just likethe snacks that we had were
particularly snacks that theyenjoyed this time.
Like that's possible.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Um, but well, it's also not like there's a lot of
game, right?
Like there's not a lot of stuffthat you can just go out and
hunt or right.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
No, yeah, nothing really.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Like we were Hawaii where there's just chickens
always roaming around.
SPEAKER_03 (23:24):
Where there's there's a there's goats
everywhere.
Um, but we were at this onelady's house, and she had she
had some animals.
There was like a few dogs there,there was like two parrots, and
there was a cage of rabbits.
And some of the kids were reallyexcited to show us, show me
(23:44):
these rabbits.
So I like went over and lookedat them.
And these weren't like theseweren't like giant rabbits that
you just like see out in frontof your house.
Like these were the giantbunnies, like they looked like
they were pets, yeah.
Um, and they were freaking huge.
Those are food rabbits.
Good meat rabbits.
Well, I asked them like in myeyes, I'm like, it looks like uh
a pet rabbit because they'repretty cute, of course.
(24:06):
And I was like, what are youdoing with these rabbits?
And one other kid just shoutsout from the weeds, he's like,
Food, and I was just like, damn,yeah, checks out.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Dude, we had we have a friend at church that used to
he ate them in college.
He had his own rabbit.
No way, yeah.
He had a bunch of rabbits in hisgarage and ate them in college.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Dude, people get on the the meat rabbit.
Have you like there's this guyon YouTube who's been making
meat rabbits pretty popular?
Yeah, because he shows like thethe speed at which they
reproduce, the speed at whichthey grow, and then how little
we're how little you gotta dofor them, and like really the
meat yield percentages comparedto like chicken and stuff is
(24:47):
crazy high.
Like wow, hundreds of percent.
Like, I want to say like more.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
And so disease is way less, dude.
That was a for when I graduatedcollege.
That buddy he barbecued somerabbits for us.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
You know, I don't think my choice of graduation
food would just be a couple ofrabbits.
It was so good.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
It was like a very, very tender, sweet barbecue
meat.
It was great.
I could not tell it was whatkind of sauce?
Barbecue sauce?
I mean, it you didn't needsauce, it was just like basted
in until it was falling off thebone, you know?
Yeah, it was like pulled rabbit.
Wow, it was delicious.
He also has had a lot of he'shad quails and pheasants and
(25:32):
doves.
Anyways, yeah, off kind of offtopic.
But um, what so what did youspend most of this trip doing?
Like I imagine it wasn't likeactually rebuilding, but it was
more like supervising handout ofassets that were like donated
and fundraised.
SPEAKER_03 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So one of the important thingsis like not creating dependency
for anything.
So you have to give the suppliesto the church or somebody local
that then can kind of distributethem and pass them out.
Um like you don't want peoplethinking that you're coming.
(26:11):
Like they're what a lot ofpeople see on like other mission
trips and stuff is that they dowork and then the next time the
project that they're doing thenext time that they go there, it
hasn't been touched since youleft.
And it's because they thinkyou're coming back and you're
gonna do it and you're gonnafinish it for them.
Um and so in this particularinstance, there's so much work
that can be done that you're notgoing like what are you gonna
(26:35):
do?
Like pick and choose one personin the community that you're
gonna help them with their roof,and then everyone else, you're
just like, sorry, like see youlater.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
Yeah, that's that's what I was looking at my phone,
just all these pictures of, andit seems like a lot of the
structures are still there.
Yeah, but roofs, roofs are theroofs around, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
Yeah, yeah, because the the not all, but a lot of
the like a lot of the properstructures are like concrete
homes um with like pretty goodfoundations.
But so yeah, we're sortingsupplies, giving that to the the
church, they're gonna kind ofpass that out and give that to
the families.
Uh, and then the other thing wasjust like, okay, how do we
(27:13):
support the church there?
Because they're doing a lot ofwork for the community.
Uh, for example, when parentsaren't working and they can't, I
don't it seemed like it was likethey have to pay for school of
some sort, but the kids weren'tgoing to school, therefore the
kids aren't eating any meals uhbecause they're not being fed,
(27:34):
they're not going to school,they're not being fed at school.
Yeah.
So then the church is like,well, then you need to bring the
kids to the church, and thenwe'll feed them and we'll teach
them, basically.
Um, so there's a lot of kids atthe church for school, like for
daycare sort of stuff.
Yeah.
Um and so the church kind ofplays that role there.
So we were kind of working toclear the church's property so
(27:57):
that they can get things plantedand kind of like get some food
going and kind of redistribute.
And I will say that for being amonth since the hurricane, the
plants in the jungle growrapidly fast.
So fast, yeah.
Yeah.
Like you've already you'vealready got like a like foot and
a half, two feet like stock onsome of these banana trees or
(28:20):
like these coconut trees thatare still there.
Like things are growing reallyfast.
Yeah.
Um, it'll probably be a yearbefore eight months, maybe a
year before they're having anyfruit, essentially, but that's
still eight months to a yearthat like people are looking for
other ways for food.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Yeah, no, it's it's a long time to be going hungry
um and having to like rely ongenerosity for food.
Yeah.
That's pretty crazy.
I mean, I guess it is very hardfor me to like picture just
because I don't really think wehave an equivalency.
You know, I think there's acouple towns in like the very
(29:02):
remote parts of like the RockyMountains and stuff that you
could, you know, say, like,yeah, during a blizzard, they
don't have a grocery store andit's a town of several hundred
people or something, and they'rethey gotta freaking stick it
out.
But the one thing that like allof North America has, no matter
where you go, is game.
Yeah, sure.
Like, and like the be a verybeautiful part of the you know
(29:28):
uh American culture is like youcan't be punished for hunting
game if it's on sustenance.
Sure.
You know, like if it's like ifif someone's like, bro, you just
killed this moose without a tag,and you're like, it was the only
thing around, and my family wasstarving.
It's like, okay, well, you gottaget let off, right?
And um I'm pretty sure that'suniversally across the the
(29:50):
Continental 48 at least.
SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
The you can still get in trouble for it,
definitely.
It the way that it's policed canbe like discretionary, yeah.
Yeah, it's discretionary,whereas like, you know, there is
there's like you know, game warsand stuff who like they know
that guy poached that deer outof season.
Also, they know that like thatfamily has no food.
(30:12):
Like, yeah, so there are liketechnically technically it's
still just as illegal, you canget in just as much trouble, but
the just there's discretionarypieces in there, you know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
I've I just remember hearing the stories from Alaska
State troopers about crazy poorlike families that have never
had a bank account and they livesomewhere with no power or
running water, right?
They're living off of like it'sa it's a cabin.
Yeah, and they go get theirfresh water from the river,
yeah.
Or they break the ice in thelake to get it, you know what I
(30:42):
mean?
Or they like are smelting snowfor it, and like they're just
like, yeah, I'm just gonna likethey whatever they hunt and eat,
they can hunt and eat.
Like they're never gonna killsomething if that if they can't
eat it before it spoils.
SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
And there's a pretty decent population of animals in
in Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
More more uh what is it?
What's the I think there's moremoose in Alaska than there are
humans, yeah.
Which is crazy because likethere's not that many moose
anywhere else down here, right?
They're everywhere.
And there it is.
I saw more moose than I sawpeople when I was in Alaska.
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
They estimate of a around upwards of 200,000 moose
in Alaska.
Moose Moose, yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Moxin.
What a what a what a classicvideo.
Classic moose.
Yeah.
Um, but uh so I it's very hardfor me to conceptually like
gather, like, okay, how do youeven have a community in an in
an area so remote if like itcould cyclically uh be at the
(31:42):
whim of like you know, theregion and weather to to like
lose your ability to sustainitself.
So it definitely like I'm notand this is not me like saying
like they should move oranything like that.
It's more just like I I amtrying to imagine like how that
culture has done this in thepast and how they've done it for
(32:03):
the last several hundred years,you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (32:06):
And this this hurricane is is was much
stronger than a lot of things inrecent memory, right?
Yeah um, but it's a combinationof a lot of things, like it's
not like this the community isso remote that like they have no
access to people or anything,but like roads get washed out,
you can't like the buses aren'tmaking their way up there.
(32:29):
It's like a 45 minute to an hourand a half drive, so it's not
like you're walking it oranything.
Um they don't have jobs, soyeah.
Some people don't have jobs,they're not like they're not
they don't have cars, so they'renot like commuting down there or
anything.
So it's it's a lot of factorsthat compile.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
Um is there any industry there outside of
tourism?
Like, like is a big like arethere mines there at all, like
that like are ran by the stateor anything that a lot of people
work at?
SPEAKER_03 (33:00):
You know, I don't know, but the Chinese are uh
their presence is is pretty bigthere, right?
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
No way, yeah.
Really, I did not know that.
I knew the Chinese had a hugepresent in a lot of African
nations, did not know they werethe Caribbean pretty big for
materials and resources, right?
SPEAKER_03 (33:18):
So but in the Caribbean and in South America,
they're almost just doing it.
Oh actually, there's a lot ofresources in South America.
The Caribbean I don'tunderstand, but they're like
building hotels and bridges andlike uh roads, like and it's
like it's like known, likepeople know that it's happening.
Yeah, they're like, Yeah, theChinese are here, um, and
(33:40):
they'll like point at like thisoverpass that's being built, and
it's like the most impressiveoverpass or roadway that they've
ever seen.
And they're like, Yeah, theChinese are doing that.
And they're it's like it's likewhy are the Chinese doing that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Bro, because if if you're if you're in debt to
them, they can just take yourwhole country over.
I mean, it's a it's a hostileacquisition.
unknown (34:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (34:02):
That's a that's what they uh are doing in um
Djibouti.
I had a few buddies who havebeen deployed to acquisition
deployed to well, they were theywere deployed to Djibouti.
No, it is funny, it's a hostileacquisition of Djibouti, but
it's because that nation has noconcept of like this is gonna
(34:22):
sound rough, but I don't reallycare.
I'm really beyond people gettingtheir feelings hurt over like
just the way the world works andeconomic policy.
But many of these third worldnations have a hard time uh with
their leadership planning outlong term and having any
(34:43):
long-term vision.
So when the Chinese are saying,like, hey, uh, we'll build this
for this much money, and you'llowe us this much as a you know,
in a result of it, uh, they'relike taking the entire possible
GDP that the government of someof these nations could like
dream of in a decade.
(35:04):
Yeah.
And they're taking it in like asingle project, a single
infrastructure project, like aroad or a uh electrical grid or
plumbing infrastructure, walllike clean water, right?
And so then they have thesecountries buy the flipping ball
sack for decades and decades.
(35:26):
It's like, oh, you're you're notgonna pay.
Oh, well, then power's off andthe water's off.
Yeah, we're shutting down theroad.
Um, and then it and like they'reagreeing to like essentially
like the Chinese government ownsthose assets and stuff, and
they're they're purchasing upessentially territory nations,
yeah.
Which don't really be very wiseof the Chinese, not very wise of
(35:49):
everyone who's just like sellingoff.
Oh yeah, today I'll do that.
Well, because they're not evenselling it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (35:55):
They're just handing it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
They're saying, like, yeah, you can build that,
and yeah, we'll pay to build it,and we'll have our people help
you with it.
And you know, it's pretty smart,right?
Because the Chinese never buysthe land.
SPEAKER_03 (36:06):
Right.
Well, it a lot of what theChinese are doing, the China is
the world's biggest importer offood and resources, right?
Like it's actually a veryresource-poor country.
Um, and so for places like SouthAmerica and Africa, uh, and
Russia as well, but like youcan't really take advantage of
(36:28):
Russia in the ways that peoplehistorically have in Africa and
South America.
So the the presence of Russiaand China in Africa secretly
that people don't really see orrealize, like there are like the
amount of missions that themilitary is currently doing in
(36:51):
Africa in this like secret fightfor resources and um areas and
territories in Africa.
They shot at the Chinese.
SPEAKER_01 (37:01):
My buddies were deployed, they let they had
fired warning shots at theChinese regularly.
Yeah, because of how close theChinese would get with their
land vehicles, and dude, theChinese would like play chicken
on the road, like they woulddrive at you.
It's so funny.
Trying to get you to likeAmerican humbies to like drive
off.
SPEAKER_03 (37:20):
And I was like, that's insane, dude.
And there, I don't think I don'tknow if people remember this,
but there was recent, like maybeabout a year ago or so, kind of
a big deal that in a territoryin Africa that France had, uh,
the people in in that territoryin Africa were just like, yeah,
we don't want the Frenchanymore.
(37:41):
Like, we want the Russians.
Yeah.
And they were just getting readyto basically kick the French to
the curb.
Uh, but most it was some stupid,stupid amounts, like 70
something percent of um France'suh uranium was coming from their
further nuclear power.
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:01):
And it was a really big deal because France was just
gonna be shit out of luckbecause the Russians were just
coming in and just isn't FranceFrance still shit out of luck.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Like, aren't they still using gas pipelines from
or natural gas pipelines fromRussia?
SPEAKER_03 (38:16):
I know Germany was Germany was, yeah, yeah.
Um, and that's that's why theNord Stream pipeline really,
really bone them.
Um well, they bone themselves,basically, is what they did.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
When they're like Russia's bad, we're supporting
Ukraine, and Russia's like,okay, power off.
SPEAKER_03 (38:32):
No, they were like, Russia's bad, so we're gonna
blow up this pipeline that weused.
SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
Well, they opened up all the coal mines in Germany
again, too, which was prettycrazy, like as a result of that.
SPEAKER_03 (38:43):
Yeah, and then Russia, oh then Germany also has
a very recent which you don'tthink that this is that this
wasn't a thing until they saidit out loud, but they're
starting to re-militarize, andyou're like, You guys don't have
a military?
Like, I thought we said youaren't allowed to do that ever
again.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
We started letting Japan do it when Japan was like,
dude, do you see China?
Pretty close.
Yeah, you guys, you guys couldmake a military if you need.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
But it it makes you think about what's going on.
Well, you had mentioned that,like, yeah, there's a lot of
countries that are basicallyhanding themselves and their
land over because they're notthinking that far in advance.
And it's like, yeah, it's it'strue.
And even countries that youdon't think would do that do do
that, like Venezuela right now,or like a lot of countries in
(39:32):
South America where like onedictator person takes over this
regime change every like 10years or 15 years, or the CIA
marches in there and does theirthing, and then all boom,
there's a new yeah, there's anew person in there.
Um and so all these like crazyrelationships and like
territories get formed in areas,and it's like we're we're kind
(39:55):
of looking in the eyes of thisthing in Venezuela, which I
think actually as of tonightwe'll figure out if they did
indeed declare a soft war inVenezuela that they were I don't
think they have to declare waranymore.
Uh well as as of very recently,they declared Venezuela as being
(40:16):
part of a terrorization, whichallowed them to do inland
strikes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
Yeah, but that also means you don't have to work
around.
That also means you don't haveto declare war with like with
the nation of Venezuela.
Right.
You could just be like, Well,well, it's another war on
terror.
SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
And there was there was we weren't at war with
Afghanistan.
We were at war with terroristsin Afghanistan.
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Not the country, not the country, just their
citizens.
SPEAKER_01 (40:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
That's where the um it's I I typed in like I just
asked chats like what's umwhat's China's interest in
Jamaica and just even like chatGPG is like they want to be
close to the Panama Canal forsure and control it.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, all right, that's there itis.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
I definitely think that's we're getting so
sidetracked, but we gotta lockdown that Panama Canal because
if we lose the extra set, we areso boxed in.
Um okay, but before we move onfrom Jamaica, man, I just I
guess I kind of want to knowlike anything that you think you
could like if you could tellanyone else who's going there,
(41:21):
right?
On mission trips.
I know we're sending like fouror five more teams or something.
Um, but uh there might be otherpeople who are going out and
doing their own trips as well toany of these kind of Caribbean
nations impacted.
Do you have any likerecommendations for like, hey,
here's how to make the best useof your time, really, with like
the impact I saw and like youknow, going in kind of not
(41:43):
blind, but going in not reallyknowing like what they might
need most of.
Um because I I mean I don't knowhow much food did you guys take
down there versus like clothingand supplies, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (41:54):
Yeah, we took a fair amount of clothing.
Apparently, clothing is m muchmore in demand than I had
anticipated.
So I think that will be a apretty big thing for the future
trips is bringing a lot ofbringing a lot of clothing.
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
That's that's surprising me because I would
think they'd have plenty of thatcovered versus food.
Like I would I would think likefood would be much more of a
higher priority, but yeah,that's what I thought.
SPEAKER_03 (42:18):
I don't Quite understand.
Um I probably should ask morequestions in the realm of like
why clothing, what do you need,what do you need for
clothing-wise?
Yeah.
Outside of like socks andunderwear, that stuff that stuff
makes sense, you know.
He bought through quick.
Um, but uh yeah, I think maybeone of the most important things
is like when you kind ofencounter like when a country
(42:42):
encounters like a disaster likethat, I think the issues the
issues of that society caneither become more pronounced
afterward, or it's anopportunity for things to look
different, I'd say.
Like small examples that there'sthere's not many young men in in
(43:06):
a lot of these mountain towns,and also just because of the
culture there, it's not verycommon that young men stick
around after someone'simpregnated, after a female.
Yeah, they knock them up andthen they leave, bro.
Yeah, and so there's there's a apretty big lacking of male
leadership in communities, butsomething that happens like when
(43:28):
none of them are working, theyall go home.
So, like right now, maybe morethan ever that I've seen is like
there's actually a lot of theolder older guys or kids, not
even kids, but young men likethat are in their 20s are like
back home with their familieswhenever they're probably out
shagging typically and like andspread and seed, and you don't
(43:51):
know what happens after that.
Um, but it's like this is liketo some degree kind of a
starting fresh point.
So the more you can kind ofconnect with people in those
communities and yeah um I don'tjust be like praying for them
and um like trying to not givedifferent perspective, but you
(44:15):
don't want to like come in likechange a culture, but just like
be praying, like working andliving alongside them that maybe
you change like some hearts orsome thoughts on things and um
the issues of that communitylook a bit different, could look
a bit different afterward, youknow.
Um the work ethic of the youngmen there is pretty poor.
(44:36):
The reality is that when you'resitting there working, that was
one thing I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
Was the when you got there, it'd been a month, like
was there kind of a lot of justa bunch of stuff still sitting
around, you know, or like and orlike and in general too, like
maybe what you're about to sayis like the uh yeah.
Like I said, just go ahead andsay what you're gonna say.
So I think you're gonna answermy question.
SPEAKER_03 (44:59):
Well, yeah, yeah, it's it's um when there's not
like men in the like in thosehouseholds and the the moms are
taking care of their kids, thenthe house projects that they
have or like the betterment ofthe home gets put on the back
burner for sure.
And that makes the that makesthe houses worse, which then
(45:22):
make it even more difficult whena natural disaster does happen,
that like these houses are stillpretty behind.
Uh and then the other piece ofit is that um like when we were
there doing work, uh this isjust kind of like a cultural
(45:44):
piece of it with work ethic.
Like fathers being in the home,like in homes do a great deal
for young men and kids in termsof identity and encouraging
encouraging.
(46:04):
He does have a father, don't lethim lie to you.
SPEAKER_01 (46:06):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (46:08):
Um Jesus?
You mean God?
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Yeah, that is my that is my my heavenly father,
is my earthly father.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
Um and so just like a lot of these young guys just
don't have they don't haveidentity, um, and they don't
they don't have a lot ofdiscipline.
Um and there's no when there'sno sense of identity, there's no
sense of basically like pullingyour weight in the community.
(46:35):
Uh like a the way I look at itis that like a present dad, like
at the very least, you see yourdad get up and go to work every
day and come back and bitchabout his job, um, and tell you
to straighten up and make you gooutside and mow the lawn.
Um and that's like that's likethe bare minimum, right?
(46:56):
And then like a really fantasticone, like basically says, like,
hey, yeah, you gotta pull yourweight because you're part of a
community.
And if you're not adding value,then what are you even doing?
Um, and so you like witnessthat, but when none of that's
around, then none of it'shappening at all.
So you could be like we'resitting there like cleaning up,
like a lot of these kids willlike go to the church for food
(47:18):
or like go there for help orguidance or power, even like to
charge their phones, and youcould be sitting there clearing
up trees and stuff, and like Ihave a great deal of love for
like a lot of these young guysthat are there, but they'll just
sit there and basically likeholler at you, just watch you
work, and just watch you work,yeah.
And like you'll walk over andlike talk a little bit of shit
(47:40):
to them and stuff, but they'lljust be talking shit to you the
entire time that you're working.
SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
That's crazy, dog.
That is absolutely wild to me.
SPEAKER_03 (47:47):
Um and outside of the disaster, they probably have
jobs, like they m they would beworking.
SPEAKER_01 (47:53):
But in this instance, like what age are
these young men you think theones that are because I would
imagine that mom, if mom'srunning if mom's alone in the
household, mom's putting thechildren to to chore work,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (48:05):
You would you would think.
You would think.
SPEAKER_01 (48:07):
But are you saying like none of these children show
like none of them work at all?
Like none of or none of themlike have a sense of duty and
discipline to like help clean upthe community?
SPEAKER_03 (48:19):
The youngest ones in times I've been there, the
youngest ones will help work,but it's just because they want
to hang out with you.
SPEAKER_01 (48:26):
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (48:27):
So they'll like come alongside and like.
Like young teenager, yeah, like12, like pretty much like it
from 11 to like maybe 15.
Like they'll come and hang outwith you and help work.
But if you're not there, thenthey're nothing's gonna happen.
But the ones who are sittingthere like talking shit and like
watching stuff, like they're intheir early 20s to mid-20s.
(48:48):
Okay.
Um, maybe even like 17, 18 orsomething.
Uh and the the males who are thebest and the hardest workers are
significantly older.
Yeah.
Like they're like the pastor.
Yeah, like they're in their 60splus.
Uh we had one guy working withus that he works for the church,
(49:10):
maybe, maybe volunteers, I don'tknow.
But he's dude, he was like inhis 70s, and I had I had no idea
because he's still out therewith a chainsaw, like going
going to town.
SPEAKER_01 (49:21):
Dude, I bet that dude is just pure ropey muscle.
SPEAKER_03 (49:24):
Yeah, like he like he's he's fantastic, dude.
He's in he's in great shape.
And then we've worked with guysthat are in their like 60s that
are just like freaking muscledout and they're like digging
holes and stuff going to town,but they've like lived in those
communities their entire livesand um feel a sense of like
purpose and belonging.
And a lot of them like hadfamilies, like closer-knit
(49:47):
families.
So it's possible that like thefatherlessness generation is
more recent um as it is in theUS too, like the past like a
couple or few generations, youknow.
Yeah.
Uh fatherlessness, especially inthe US, hasn't always been a
problem.
Like it's it's increasing everygeneration.
In the past few, it's beenparticularly bad.
(50:10):
Um but in the long haul, itreally just like will completely
degrade a society.
SPEAKER_01 (50:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I think uh, you know, I I don'tthink Mexico and Mexican culture
is equivalent.
It's not.
Um, but when we were down inMexico, that was one thing I
remember like the first missiontrip I was a part of down there,
when we were really like layingthe roots for what we were gonna
(50:38):
do down there.
The pastor Javier and like onedude who I don't I don't think
he had a family.
Just one dude would show up andsit in the church, other than
like a few women and theirchildren would come.
And when we were working, onedude showed up from the
community.
This is in a rural community,this is Insenata, Mexico, big
(50:59):
giant city.
Um, and I think a lot of it wasthat the community hadn't seen
the value there yet.
And it was cool over time, everytime we went back, there was
more and more people and moreand more men and more and more
kids.
Like, and I when I say kids, Imean like high school age that
(51:21):
were willing to come and helpout on the projects that we were
doing.
Um, and I remember the firsttime we had like contractors in
Mexico.
Um, and I think a lot of thatthough, culture-wise, is
surrounding like they didn't seethe value in doing that after
work.
Like they had their own jobsthey were going to during the
day when we were working andbuilding things.
(51:43):
And then as the church becamemuch more of like the community
saw a huge value in it, the theworkers came around it.
And that was the cool thing,right?
Like, like you were saying, likefor the first few years, outside
of us, there was just reallynothing Javier and his family
could do to continue theprojects we're doing.
It was just him and his family,and they were having to run the
(52:05):
church and the kids had to go toschool, right?
And so, like, but then there wasstarted coming, like we'd come
back and like a lot of work wasdone in the meantime while we're
gone because the community sawthe value in it.
And I guess that's my kind offinal question here.
Like, what is the community'svalue of the church here in
Jamaica?
Because I don't hear too muchabout I'm not saying it doesn't
(52:27):
happen, but I don't really heartoo many stories about the
church's growth or how it'sgrown.
And I'm wondering, like, inJamaica, do they see like a
church in their community?
And is there like a strong likefaith presence, or is there like
a competing belief system withChristianity and they don't see
(52:47):
a lot of value in the church asa part of the community?
Because it I think it's very,you know, different across
cultures on like if they'regonna place value in the local
church, the local, and when Isay church, the local Christian
church, or if it's just there,but they have a different belief
system that is more integral orculturally more popular.
SPEAKER_03 (53:11):
Yeah.
Uh in in this one in particular,like the church plays a pretty
big role because the people thatare in that community, their
families have been there for along time.
Um and there one thing I do findinteresting is that with the men
there and and the women as well,but more surprisingly, the men,
(53:32):
is that there is a very highlevel of respect for the pastor
and the church.
I don't know if that's in allcommunities, or just this one,
but there's a high level ofrespect there.
Like there's like kind of anacknowledgement of the pastor as
being like a father figure in inthat community.
Um now, how much people arewilling to do to like help them
(53:57):
out, not really sure.
But in in a church setting,churches have always been a
little bit more likeheart-tugging for women than
they are men.
Yeah.
Like even at our church, likeit's the fact that there's even
much of a like a tight-knit malecommunity at our church is
abnormal.
(54:19):
Right.
And so um I think that in somesocieties the family structure
is really important, and then insome locations, the community
structure is really important.
And in these ones, there is verymuch so a community aspect.
Everybody knows each other,everybody's very friendly to
each other, like they all likeacknowledge each other, um, like
(54:41):
when walking on the streets, butthe family units are really
broken.
Um not really, but they but theyare broken, and and there's just
a lot of like disorganization toit.
Whereas, like I think in Mexicothe family units are pretty well
organized, and that's part ofyeah, not only Hispanic, but
like Hispanic, like Catholiclike culture is that the family
(55:03):
unit is really important.
The women in those families areprobably the ones that are more
involved with the local church.
Yeah, the men are out workingprimarily, but I don't know, but
I feel like I see less of acommunal aspect in Mexico than
in some other places.
Yeah.
But the family structures are somuch more intact.
I think that's a fairassessment.
(55:24):
Um, and again, I could be Icould be wrong about that.
Like I can't I can't say I'vespent a great deal of time in
smaller communities in inMexico, but no matter what, the
smaller the community, the morecommunal it is, regardless,
right?
That's why cities are just solike desensitizing, basically.
SPEAKER_01 (55:41):
The reason I just asked that is because you'd
think with if the community is aChristian community invested in
the church, you'd think thenthat would trickle down into the
men having like understandinglike the Christian value of you
know the the fatherhood and likethe role of the a man in the
household and the expectations.
(56:02):
And so that's why like I'vealways kind of scratched my head
of like because I always hearlike when people come back from
these trips is how like the menare not involved, like the men
are are leaving that community,and I just always kind of was
like, that seems very oppositeto me of if the men believe in
the church and are Christianmen, you'd think they'd stick
around with their and like lookafter their kids.
SPEAKER_03 (56:26):
Well, I mean you have to consider too that
similar to Hispanic communitiesand American communities, like
the women are usually the onesthat are more involved in the
church.
And there can be a church there,but if Christ is not the center
point in a family unit, it isnot going to override culture in
(56:47):
a country.
Um like that culture, thatculture will dominate and take
first priority.
And so if the same thing hasbeen happening for generations
in men, which is uh like we seein a lot of communities here in
the US as well, where the likemen have a particular view of
(57:08):
like work and families and likewomen, and there's not really
much of a value on like if youimpregnate somebody, you stick
around, sort of thing, you know.
Um, and so it's like the onlything that can change that
dynamic is either a generationaldifference, which is a man being
in the household and changingthat point of view, which
(57:32):
overrides that culture, orChrist doing that as well,
right?
Like there's so there are a lotof families, like the pastor
himself seemingly don't know100%, but seems like he grew up
probably in an intact family,and then he himself did the same
thing.
And then some of the men thatare there too that do do that,
like do stick around, do haveintact families and are married
(57:54):
and with kids and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
So there are men a part of the church that have
like begun to change culturallyand like past like change the
culture.
SPEAKER_03 (58:03):
Yeah, the first time that I was there, I saw them.
This time we I didn't see them.
Um, I saw the younger men there,but not not so much the older
men.
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Um which it is a post-disaster scenario, so they
might be working at a lot ofother stuff too.
SPEAKER_03 (58:18):
Um so yeah, it it really takes either Christ or an
intact family for the nextgeneration of kids or men to see
it differently than theirfathers did.
Um and so that's what that's whyit's like generations of people
separate from Christ, they don'tget better, they get
(58:41):
progressively worse.
Yeah, um, and we see that heretoo.
Uh, and they just go indifferent directions.
But the culture culture is justso strong outside of the
presence of Christ in familiesand communities that like it
takes a lot to override whatpeople are doing consistently.
And um that unfortunately likeis one of like fatherlessness,
(59:03):
like is a generational problem.
SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (59:06):
Um, and it gets worse.
SPEAKER_01 (59:08):
Yeah.
Well, I kind of want to keepthis keep this episode just
focused on this.
So I think that's you know, apretty good summary of the trip
and all that.
I guess if there's anythingelse, you know, Dean, that you
kind of want to have as likefinal thoughts or anything like
that, you know, give you thefloor for anything else you want
to say.
(59:29):
No pressure.
SPEAKER_03 (59:30):
Yeah, no, I think the the I think the only thing
I've got is that I do believethat um like God is trying to
like raise up a generation ofmen that have been largely
absent for a few generationsnow.
Um I don't really know entirelywhat that looks like, but uh men
(59:57):
kind of like swung in this likereally like kind of like post
post-World War II, likehardened, like hardened, like
classic man sort of thing tolike the the generation of dads
and parents that were likereally damaged, um like by like
(01:00:20):
either like kind of umtyrannical almost, uh, and then
now you've got this like kind offresh generation of men and
women as well that have a reallyopen view of Christ and the
church.
Uh, and those ones God is likeusing very heavily right now.
Like they're really, in myopinion, kind of like they have
(01:00:41):
these untainted views of Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:43):
Like the pendulum swinging the other direction.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:46):
The pendulum is swinging big time.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:47):
Um that's that's encouraging.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:49):
Yeah, and it's it's all it's all over the world
that's that that's happening, Iwould say.
Like you see it here in theStates as well.
Um, it seemed like you kind ofhear this a little bit here and
there, but that like the churchin the US is uh shrinking in
size, right?
(01:01:10):
And that might be churchattendance, but that's not I
don't believe that that's anaccurate representation of what
it actually looks like here inthe states.
Like the biggest undergroundchurches in the world are in uh
Iran and China, which are liketwo of the places where they're
not allowed to be, right?
Yeah, um, and those populationsin those countries of Christians
(01:01:32):
are probably bigger than theyare in the US, but the US is
largely delayed in its movementsbecause we kind of have a crappy
canvas to be working with.
Um so God is doing big things inthe US.
The church is not dying in theUS, it's just taking time to do
(01:01:53):
it.
And in a lot of the surroundingareas, like God is doing a lot
of things in the youngergeneration of men, including in
in in Jamaica as well.
Um, but it'll be prettyinteresting to see.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:05):
Appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:06):
Pat, you got any final thoughts?
Till next time, folks.
I didn't know you had a cat.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Got two of 'em.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
What's your cat's name?
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Uh Momo and Tippy.
SPEAKER_01 (00:53):
Nice.
Is it Momo from The Last Avatar?
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Uh no, because I've never actually seen it, but she
looks exactly like Momo from TheLast Avatar.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Bro, I'll say this.
The season one of the liveaction made me cry.
I got insane.
Yeah, both me and Billy Jeanboth cried while watching it.
It gave us insane nostalgia.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
I've never I've also never seen it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Oh, dude, she does look like Momo.
Yeah, same color.
That's crazy.
Oh yeah.
Honestly, that is probably likethe best show to watch with your
kids, too, Pat.
Oh yeah.
Like, because it is so gradualin the introduction of the more
like growing up themes.
So, like, you know, dealing withdeath and a loved one passing on
(01:39):
and first love stuff like that.
But that all like is introducedover the course of like each
season just gets a little bitolder.
And you could really take yourtime with your kids and just let
them watch, like, you know,really like one season a year
and grow up together.
But uh, I think it's a greatshow for for like families to
(02:00):
watch together.
And I personally believe thatjust because I see Billy Jean's
family and they all watched justget together, like you know,
families would watch Survivor,and it really brought that whole
family very close in like a waywhere like Survivor.
Well, you know, a lot offamilies grew up watching
Survivor together, you know whatI mean?
But um and so now like they'veall had all their pets named
(02:24):
after characters from Avatar andlike uh Christmas gifts that
were you know based around theshow and stuff.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
What's the big uh flying Opa?
Yeah, what is it?
It's a flying weapon.
It's like a bison bisonplatypus.
Yeah, it's a bison, flyingbison.
SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good name.
Yeah, uh my like my wife, theircats are Sokka and Katara.
And then are they Siamese cats?
No.
No, they're not they're not thesame species.
Um, but anyways, uh great show.
(03:05):
Uh what were we talking about?
Oh, we're talking about puttingyour mouth on your cat's head.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Is what we were talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
I did start uh it is like I don't know, man.
It there's something about yourpet and just the familiarity of
it.
Like, it is really like just amatter of time before you start
like biting your animal.
Because I like I straight upwhen I'm playing around with my
dog, I will like bite one of herbig floppy ears.
(03:35):
Oh yeah.
And not like really hard, butjust enough to get her to like
instigate it so we can like playaround and wrestle.
Um I don't know.
It's like it's kind of like Ihave no control over it.
SPEAKER_03 (03:48):
Yeah, once I'll I'll I'll bite my cat's like ear, but
just like with my lips becausethey're so like thin.
Yeah, not to actually hurt them.
See if I can get a rise out ofthem.
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
Exactly, exactly.
Uh Ken, in case you haven'trealized, Dean's here in the
studio with us.
And uh Dean Dean uh has been onthe podcast a few episodes
before.
Gosh, like almost like a dozennow, I bet.
I bet not a dozen, half a dozen.
But uh Dean, you just got backfrom a trip to Jamaica.
(04:19):
And you know, honestly, uhknowing more about how um just
much damage was caused from thelatest hurricane uh season that
swept over it.
I think you know, Pat and I bothhad the conversation was like,
(04:40):
oh, like be good to have likesomeone who had some first hand
like eyewitness stuff about it.
Cause I just don't think a lotof people it didn't it didn't
have almost any coverage in thenews cycle.
Yeah, no, it didn't.
And so I don't think anyone'sreally aware of um, you know,
just the damage that uh a lot ofthe Jamaica technically Bahamas
(05:04):
region.
SPEAKER_03 (05:05):
It's in the Caribbean, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
The Caribbean, yeah.
Um I don't think a lot of peopleare aware of like the damage
some of the Caribbean nationswent through with that.
SPEAKER_03 (05:13):
So really kind of constantly through, to be
honest, huh?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Just constantly through it.
Just how other like year in andyear out.
There's different differentislands getting smashed.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Yeah, yeah, but it's not like uh I don't think you'd
be races as much, right?
Like like this was a prettystrong one from what I
understand.
Um but also we're happy just tohave you on to just chat and
catch up, and there's a lot ofthings in the last couple weeks
that we could talk about goinginto the holiday season where
(05:43):
we'll take a little bit ofhiatus.
Um, but anyways, happy thatyou're here, dude.
Always a pleasure to have youhere.
It's been a while eating somehomemade cookies.
Yeah, you'll if you didn't hearmy munching already.
That's alright.
Um, anyways, so uh let's talkabout it.
Yeah, we don't really have likeany specific questions organized
(06:04):
or anything like that that wewon't like want to like have you
go through.
Like we didn't have anythingprepped.
It's more just like want tolisten to you know, really what
is the status, you know, andwhat is it like on the ground
there in Jamaica, especiallybecause you said I remember you
had gone before six years ago.
(06:25):
Yeah, right.
So you so you kind of have seenyou have a good way of comparing
like you know the the differencebetween you know half a dozen
years.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
And was that with the church when you went?
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (06:37):
Okay, so you went on like one of the first ones or
yeah, I think it was the secondone.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Okay.
And then um I've been two othertimes as well apart from the
church.
Okay.
So I've been quite a few times.
Uh the two things that I thinkwere the most surprising, um one
of which was more surprisingthan the other one, but just
when when really stronghurricanes come through, uh you
(07:02):
tend to think more of like thestructural building damage.
But really what ends up beingreally devastating for in this
case a lot of the mountaincommunities, because the
hurricane did most of the damageup in the hills, and is really
just how the vegetation justgets pretty much ripped out of
(07:23):
the ground.
Um and so it's like after yousee a forest fire where the
trees are just like naked, it'salmost the same thing.
Um, because the trees are kindof ripped in half, like the
banana trees, which are mostlywater, are um are ripped out of
the ground um or laying flat.
(07:44):
So really the forest, which istypically pretty full and plush,
just looks pretty naked.
And that causes a ton of issuesbecause it's ultimately a lot of
the food, a lot of the fruit andthe things that they're growing
in the forest.
Um, so food ends up being prettydifficult for a lot of those
mountain communities.
Um and the other thing is thatuh a lot of their roofs, if they
(08:08):
can't afford a concrete roof,then they have uh they have tin
roofs.
Um so those, if you get likeeven the slightest bit of wind
catching those, it'll rip thewhole roof off, basically.
So uh a lot of the shelters upthere are pretty pretty mangled.
(08:31):
If they don't get ripped offwith the wind, the tree might
fall on them.
Um so they don't none of themhave power and because they're
trying to fix a lot of the powerin the sit like the city or some
of the coastal areas.
So those mountain communitiesreally just don't have any power
right now, and typically only ahandful of places within those
(08:51):
mountain communities will have agenerator.
Uh not most of the houses don't.
So yeah, it's it's prettydevastating.
I think a lot of a lot of thepeople there went without food
for um for a while are prettylimited food.
Um you can't just go and takesome bananas from the trees or
go to your typical mango tree orbecause they're pretty dependent
(09:13):
on like subsistence living inthe area.
Yeah, yeah, especially a lot offoraging.
Yeah, like there's but there'sbanana trees everywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (09:21):
Yeah, it the thing I think I'm trying to grasp here
is like there's orchardseverywhere around here right
now.
Like where we live in inColorado, there's orchards
everywhere.
But you can't just walk up tothem and grab whatever you want,
right?
Like that's someone's property,someone's livelihood, and
someone's food that they'regrowing to either sell or
(09:42):
sustain themselves.
And so it sounds like though inJamaica, like it's not someone's
property and someone's tree.
SPEAKER_03 (09:49):
It's that like the it's a combo of both.
Like some people have theirproperties and you're you're
kind of living on a little bitof it's it's not so much a farm,
but you have you'll like you'llplant these trees in your
backyard that you're using forfor food.
(11:39):
Um, and they've like all sortsof fruit, basically, at the end
of the day, and and then coconutas well.
Uh, but the rest of the forestas well has its vegetation,
maybe not as specific as thethings that you've planted in
your yard, but everything'smangled, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
Like and and no one owns this other stuff in the
forest?
Like it's like just I don't knowfor sure.
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (12:01):
Uh but there's forests, you're up in the
mountains, so it's foresteverywhere.
It's it's like if you were to goto a cabin or something here
where majority of the forestaround you is like pretty uh
pretty unoccupied.
Um like you have thesecommunities and there's like
some roads and stuff goingthrough it, but a lot of a lot
of the forest around um is gonnabe pretty pretty open.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Cause when you because the and also because
this I mean like lots of peoplehave like maybe been to Jamaica
and like been to a resort,right?
You know, or like seen picturesof it.
And like the these mountainvillages are are they pretty
starkly different?
Or just like or like or justlike like how as far as like
what was what's access likegetting there?
Like what and like what wouldlike the um and compared like
(12:49):
infrastructure compared to likewherever, like if you're like on
like on Tigo Bay or something,yeah, you know, versus like
these um what's that what'stheir it's a little village,
it's like six thousand people orsomething in the whole city or
maybe and they're pretty spreadout too.
SPEAKER_03 (13:05):
So um these people are kind of all over the place.
But a lot a lot of these peoplewill go back and forth to the
city to get stuff if they need,and then whenever a storm
happens, like roads might be cutout, the power's out, um the
buses might not be running atall.
Um, so there's not really foodcoming and going.
They kind of just have theresources that are around them.
(13:28):
And in this case, there's notlike grocery stores or anything.
Like you might have like somelocal stores with like snacks,
like drinks, like beer andstuff, like kind of just like
corner stores basically.
But it's not gonna be like ayour typical grow grocery store
that you go to to pick up stufffor cooking.
Um and so it's it's it's just ait's a very minimalist
(13:54):
lifestyle, uh like because ofpoverty ultimately.
Um like you don't you don't havelike a j a big kitchen with like
gas or anything like readilyavailable, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
Yeah, are are they pretty much still uh like
powering everything from propanefor the most part?
SPEAKER_03 (14:13):
Yeah, yeah, and um yeah, and in this case for the
people that do have generators,like they're using that for
their lights and stuff.
Um but then it's probably hardpretty hard to get gas, or
you've got to make a lot oftrips back and forth from the
city to get gas.
Um what about what about likewater?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Like what's the water infrastructure like?
Like, do they have like wellsthat feed into individual
properties that they dig, or isit like there's a lot of springs
in the area?
SPEAKER_03 (14:45):
Oh, there is a few primary ones in this community
that people go to, and that'swhere they'll go to like uh
collect their water, or they'llgo and bathe.
Like it's like a spring justkind of like shooting out of the
hillside.
And so um, some people will gowash their clothes there, uh
bathe there, collect water tobring it back to um wherever.
(15:07):
So stuff like filters and stuffare really helpful um for them.
Some springs are cleaner thanothers, so uh some are like
gonna be primarily used forbathing.
And it's not like it's not likea pool that you're in where it's
like somebody's bathing inthere.
It's like the water's kind ofshooting out of the mountain, so
you're just like kind ofstanding there, like letting it
splash you, um, or like rinsingyour water because they've kind
(15:28):
of like um irrigated it down orsomething where you can wash
your your clothes and stuff inthere.
SPEAKER_01 (15:33):
It's not like it's not like India where people are
like bathing and pooping in theGanges.
Right.
And then still the same peopleare like scooping water out of
it to cook later.
Right.
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Um that's rough.
So because this was in in thebecause in the past you went
with our church to do, you know,a mission trip there.
Um what was the how did you Iget this trip kind of got put
together pretty fast.
I think like what was did umhow'd you end up on this trip or
what and what was the mainmission of the trip and you know
(16:05):
what would it look like beforeyou guys headed out there and
what were you doing there?
SPEAKER_03 (16:09):
Uh my perspective is a bit limited because I was
actually I was I was travelingfor work when I got invited.
So I was in I was in Vietnam fora week and then the following
week I was in Indonesia.
Um and so I came back for lessthan a week, and it was kind of
a pretty last-minute decision.
They're like, hey, like we'vegot a few people going, do you
(16:29):
want to go?
Uh I had wanted to go on thelast trip that they were on, but
didn't.
Um so this time I was like,yeah, I'll I'll go, I'll make it
work.
Uh it wasn't gonna be a reallybig work trip.
Sometimes you go for like a prolike the team's doing a project
and everybody's gonna focus andrallying behind that.
But this was a little bit lessof that.
It was mostly bringing suppliesand seeing what work needed to
(16:52):
be done, and then future tripswould be for doing that work.
Uh so this one was just like sixof us, and they were they they
did the other five did all ofthe work for gathering the
supplies.
Um so whenever I came back, itwas kind of um I went back to
catch up at work essentially,and then we just then we just
left from there and took all thesupplies.
(17:12):
There was a lot of supplies.
There was like probably there'sprobably 20.
There's like black and yellowbins.
Yeah.
That we tote bins.
Yeah, that we took on theflight.
Um, which went pretty smooth,actually.
I thought it was gonna be anightmare, right?
It went pretty smooth.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Because I didn't know, I'm pretty sure there's a
thing.
There's something with airlineswhere like if you're doing
relief work, cost is lower, youcan call them and tell, like,
hey, we're bringing the seven.
Yeah, yeah, they can it's uh Idon't know if it yeah, if it
they they either lower the costor sometimes maybe they comp it
all the way.
I'm not sure, but like I didn'tI just I'd never the way that
like uh airlines are so almostlike becoming like the mafia
(17:51):
like mobsters on like onbaggage, uh but like the uh it's
a good thing to know about toyou know that you can you can
use uh use that resource andyeah this this particular
airline did not do that, andthat was kind of a surprise.
SPEAKER_03 (18:05):
Yeah, uh you can name them name.
This is the whole point of thispodcast is that you could say
shit like that.
Frickin' American.
It's like the the second that'snot surprising.
I'm pretty greedy.
Yeah, I flew American comingback from Australia when I was
in Indonesian.
I was also pretty butthurt onthat flight, too.
That one was kind of brutal.
I usually fly United, and Ithink I'm gonna I'm gonna stick
with that to be honest.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
I'm always doing Southwest or United if I have
to, but yeah, no, I I rememberduring uh COVID when it was
first kicking off.
Um and uh oh sorry, no, itwasn't COVID.
It was uh a few Christmases ago,Billy Jean and I were flying and
(18:48):
Southwest had their giantmeltdown, right?
Do you remember all theirsystems crashed?
Like there was like thousands ofpeople stuck in DIA.
Uh while that was happening,dude, we saw we were watching
real-time American airlinesincrease coach tickets up to
like four grand.
(19:09):
So if you wanted if you wantedto get out and get on one of the
airlines, you had to pay fourgrand to like not even ride in
first class.
It's insane.
Yeah, it was in it was unreal.
You can't waste a good tragedy.
Nope.
SPEAKER_00 (19:22):
Yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (19:25):
You know what we should have done?
We should have we should havestarted bargaining with them
during COVID whenever theirprices were playing be like,
mmm, I'll give you 58 bucks forthis ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So then how many how many dayswere you guys you guys there?
Uh just five.
Just five days.
Yeah, it was a quick one.
Sunday, Sunday through Thursday.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
What did go ahead.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
What primarily were like the supplies you guys would
bring in or Yeah, a lot oftools, uh a lot of food.
So dry foods like rice, flour,sugar, uh tuna, like canned
tuna, um beef sticks, you know.
Uh man, I eat uh beef sticks andcan tuna for a few meals.
(20:08):
Uh yeah, a lot of dry foods andthen uh tools and supplies um
primarily.
Because we'll end up using whenwe were there, the work that we
were doing, which was prettyminimal compared to work on
future and past trips, uh, wasmostly clearing, um, so clearing
(20:29):
out trees, vegetation, stuff sothat they could re replant at
the church.
Because they supply a lot offood too.
So um there was just debris likeall over uh all over like a
little bit of property that theyhad.
So we're just trying to clean itup so that they could replant
some banana trees and stuff.
The pastor there, he's uh youcan tell he's definitely um a
(20:50):
farmer at heart.
He loves it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Oh, I was gonna say m I was wondering, you know,
what was the level oflawlessness or uh community
insecurity compared to whenyou've been before, because I
remember they for some reasonthe picture they decided to show
before, you know, you guys allwent was the picture and they
(21:15):
were trying to raise money insupplies.
It was a picture of the pastordown in Jamaica would just walk
around with machete lookingmean.
Like looking mean, dude.
And like they made it, it kindof like I don't think that our
church meant to make it soundlike and it's dangerous.
Like he he they need help,right?
But I it kind of looked like itwas like he's he's roaming with
(21:36):
the machete to fucking banditsoff, you know?
I don't mean to make a joke,right?
But I was wondering like whatwhat you know is is the
community like pretty much likeself-policing really well or
like was it were you down therewhere you're like yeah, it was
actually like a lot less safethan it we previous times we
were down there.
SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
It felt it felt pretty tame, but then again,
like right after the hurricanehad happened.
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
Right, because it was a how what what day did when
it's because it's been a month?
Yeah, it's been about a month.
About a month, so kind of thatinitial like couple days could
have been could have been prettywild.
SPEAKER_03 (22:10):
Yeah, I have no idea.
Um yeah, things were pretty tamewhen I was there, and you can
tell that like a lot of the kidsand stuff.
Like they're pretty prettythey're not like outwardly very
hungry, but they'll ask you forsnacks a lot.
Um and uh yeah, like they'lltake they'll take food like any
(22:32):
chance they'll ask for it andthey'll look for it.
So the assumption is thatthey're they're not eating super
well at home.
Uh nobody said that.
Is that different than the pastwhen you've been there?
Like like mo it it seemed likeit.
Yeah.
And maybe I wasn't as aware likelast time we were there, we
weren't really eating sna likeour own snacks.
(22:54):
Like the church was making foodfor us when we were there.
Um, so I don't recall peopleasking a lot for food.
And it could have been just likethe snacks that we had were
particularly snacks that theyenjoyed this time.
Like that's possible.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Um, but well, it's also not like there's a lot of
game, right?
Like there's not a lot of stuffthat you can just go out and
hunt or right.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
No, yeah, nothing really.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Like we were Hawaii where there's just chickens
always roaming around.
SPEAKER_03 (23:24):
Where there's there's a there's goats
everywhere.
Um, but we were at this onelady's house, and she had she
had some animals.
There was like a few dogs there,there was like two parrots, and
there was a cage of rabbits.
And some of the kids were reallyexcited to show us, show me
(23:44):
these rabbits.
So I like went over and lookedat them.
And these weren't like theseweren't like giant rabbits that
you just like see out in frontof your house.
Like these were the giantbunnies, like they looked like
they were pets, yeah.
Um, and they were freaking huge.
Those are food rabbits.
Good meat rabbits.
Well, I asked them like in myeyes, I'm like, it looks like uh
a pet rabbit because they'repretty cute, of course.
(24:06):
And I was like, what are youdoing with these rabbits?
And one other kid just shoutsout from the weeds, he's like,
Food, and I was just like, damn,yeah, checks out.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Dude, we had we have a friend at church that used to
he ate them in college.
He had his own rabbit.
No way, yeah.
He had a bunch of rabbits in hisgarage and ate them in college.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Dude, people get on the the meat rabbit.
Have you like there's this guyon YouTube who's been making
meat rabbits pretty popular?
Yeah, because he shows like thethe speed at which they
reproduce, the speed at whichthey grow, and then how little
we're how little you gotta dofor them, and like really the
meat yield percentages comparedto like chicken and stuff is
(24:47):
crazy high.
Like wow, hundreds of percent.
Like, I want to say like more.
SPEAKER_01 (24:51):
And so disease is way less, dude.
That was a for when I graduatedcollege.
That buddy he barbecued somerabbits for us.
SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
You know, I don't think my choice of graduation
food would just be a couple ofrabbits.
It was so good.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
It was like a very, very tender, sweet barbecue
meat.
It was great.
I could not tell it was whatkind of sauce?
Barbecue sauce?
I mean, it you didn't needsauce, it was just like basted
in until it was falling off thebone, you know?
Yeah, it was like pulled rabbit.
Wow, it was delicious.
He also has had a lot of he'shad quails and pheasants and
(25:32):
doves.
Anyways, yeah, off kind of offtopic.
But um, what so what did youspend most of this trip doing?
Like I imagine it wasn't likeactually rebuilding, but it was
more like supervising handout ofassets that were like donated
and fundraised.
SPEAKER_03 (25:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So one of the important thingsis like not creating dependency
for anything.
So you have to give the suppliesto the church or somebody local
that then can kind of distributethem and pass them out.
Um like you don't want peoplethinking that you're coming.
(26:11):
Like they're what a lot ofpeople see on like other mission
trips and stuff is that they dowork and then the next time the
project that they're doing thenext time that they go there, it
hasn't been touched since youleft.
And it's because they thinkyou're coming back and you're
gonna do it and you're gonnafinish it for them.
Um and so in this particularinstance, there's so much work
that can be done that you're notgoing like what are you gonna
(26:35):
do?
Like pick and choose one personin the community that you're
gonna help them with their roof,and then everyone else, you're
just like, sorry, like see youlater.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
Yeah, that's that's what I was looking at my phone,
just all these pictures of, andit seems like a lot of the
structures are still there.
Yeah, but roofs, roofs are theroofs around, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:52):
Yeah, yeah, because the the not all, but a lot of
the like a lot of the properstructures are like concrete
homes um with like pretty goodfoundations.
But so yeah, we're sortingsupplies, giving that to the the
church, they're gonna kind ofpass that out and give that to
the families.
Uh, and then the other thing wasjust like, okay, how do we
(27:13):
support the church there?
Because they're doing a lot ofwork for the community.
Uh, for example, when parentsaren't working and they can't, I
don't it seemed like it was likethey have to pay for school of
some sort, but the kids weren'tgoing to school, therefore the
kids aren't eating any meals uhbecause they're not being fed,
(27:34):
they're not going to school,they're not being fed at school.
Yeah.
So then the church is like,well, then you need to bring the
kids to the church, and thenwe'll feed them and we'll teach
them, basically.
Um, so there's a lot of kids atthe church for school, like for
daycare sort of stuff.
Yeah.
Um and so the church kind ofplays that role there.
So we were kind of working toclear the church's property so
(27:57):
that they can get things plantedand kind of like get some food
going and kind of redistribute.
And I will say that for being amonth since the hurricane, the
plants in the jungle growrapidly fast.
So fast, yeah.
Yeah.
Like you've already you'vealready got like a like foot and
a half, two feet like stock onsome of these banana trees or
(28:20):
like these coconut trees thatare still there.
Like things are growing reallyfast.
Yeah.
Um, it'll probably be a yearbefore eight months, maybe a
year before they're having anyfruit, essentially, but that's
still eight months to a yearthat like people are looking for
other ways for food.
SPEAKER_01 (28:38):
Yeah, no, it's it's a long time to be going hungry
um and having to like rely ongenerosity for food.
Yeah.
That's pretty crazy.
I mean, I guess it is very hardfor me to like picture just
because I don't really think wehave an equivalency.
You know, I think there's acouple towns in like the very
(29:02):
remote parts of like the RockyMountains and stuff that you
could, you know, say, like,yeah, during a blizzard, they
don't have a grocery store andit's a town of several hundred
people or something, and they'rethey gotta freaking stick it
out.
But the one thing that like allof North America has, no matter
where you go, is game.
Yeah, sure.
Like, and like the be a verybeautiful part of the you know
(29:28):
uh American culture is like youcan't be punished for hunting
game if it's on sustenance.
Sure.
You know, like if it's like ifif someone's like, bro, you just
killed this moose without a tag,and you're like, it was the only
thing around, and my family wasstarving.
It's like, okay, well, you gottaget let off, right?
And um I'm pretty sure that'suniversally across the the
(29:50):
Continental 48 at least.
SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
The you can still get in trouble for it,
definitely.
It the way that it's policed canbe like discretionary, yeah.
Yeah, it's discretionary,whereas like, you know, there is
there's like you know, game warsand stuff who like they know
that guy poached that deer outof season.
Also, they know that like thatfamily has no food.
(30:12):
Like, yeah, so there are liketechnically technically it's
still just as illegal, you canget in just as much trouble, but
the just there's discretionarypieces in there, you know.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
I've I just remember hearing the stories from Alaska
State troopers about crazy poorlike families that have never
had a bank account and they livesomewhere with no power or
running water, right?
They're living off of like it'sa it's a cabin.
Yeah, and they go get theirfresh water from the river,
yeah.
Or they break the ice in thelake to get it, you know what I
(30:42):
mean?
Or they like are smelting snowfor it, and like they're just
like, yeah, I'm just gonna likethey whatever they hunt and eat,
they can hunt and eat.
Like they're never gonna killsomething if that if they can't
eat it before it spoils.
SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
And there's a pretty decent population of animals in
in Alaska.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
More more uh what is it?
What's the I think there's moremoose in Alaska than there are
humans, yeah.
Which is crazy because likethere's not that many moose
anywhere else down here, right?
They're everywhere.
And there it is.
I saw more moose than I sawpeople when I was in Alaska.
That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
They estimate of a around upwards of 200,000 moose
in Alaska.
Moose Moose, yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Moxin.
What a what a what a classicvideo.
Classic moose.
Yeah.
Um, but uh so I it's very hardfor me to conceptually like
gather, like, okay, how do youeven have a community in an in
an area so remote if like itcould cyclically uh be at the
(31:42):
whim of like you know, theregion and weather to to like
lose your ability to sustainitself.
So it definitely like I'm notand this is not me like saying
like they should move oranything like that.
It's more just like I I amtrying to imagine like how that
culture has done this in thepast and how they've done it for
(32:03):
the last several hundred years,you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03 (32:06):
And this this hurricane is is was much
stronger than a lot of things inrecent memory, right?
Yeah um, but it's a combinationof a lot of things, like it's
not like this the community isso remote that like they have no
access to people or anything,but like roads get washed out,
you can't like the buses aren'tmaking their way up there.
(32:29):
It's like a 45 minute to an hourand a half drive, so it's not
like you're walking it oranything.
Um they don't have jobs, soyeah.
Some people don't have jobs,they're not like they're not
they don't have cars, so they'renot like commuting down there or
anything.
So it's it's a lot of factorsthat compile.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
Um is there any industry there outside of
tourism?
Like, like is a big like arethere mines there at all, like
that like are ran by the stateor anything that a lot of people
work at?
SPEAKER_03 (33:00):
You know, I don't know, but the Chinese are uh
their presence is is pretty bigthere, right?
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
No way, yeah.
Really, I did not know that.
I knew the Chinese had a hugepresent in a lot of African
nations, did not know they werethe Caribbean pretty big for
materials and resources, right?
SPEAKER_03 (33:18):
So but in the Caribbean and in South America,
they're almost just doing it.
Oh actually, there's a lot ofresources in South America.
The Caribbean I don'tunderstand, but they're like
building hotels and bridges andlike uh roads, like and it's
like it's like known, likepeople know that it's happening.
Yeah, they're like, Yeah, theChinese are here, um, and
(33:40):
they'll like point at like thisoverpass that's being built, and
it's like the most impressiveoverpass or roadway that they've
ever seen.
And they're like, Yeah, theChinese are doing that.
And they're it's like it's likewhy are the Chinese doing that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:55):
Bro, because if if you're if you're in debt to
them, they can just take yourwhole country over.
I mean, it's a it's a hostileacquisition.
unknown (34:02):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (34:02):
That's a that's what they uh are doing in um
Djibouti.
I had a few buddies who havebeen deployed to acquisition
deployed to well, they were theywere deployed to Djibouti.
No, it is funny, it's a hostileacquisition of Djibouti, but
it's because that nation has noconcept of like this is gonna
(34:22):
sound rough, but I don't reallycare.
I'm really beyond people gettingtheir feelings hurt over like
just the way the world works andeconomic policy.
But many of these third worldnations have a hard time uh with
their leadership planning outlong term and having any
(34:43):
long-term vision.
So when the Chinese are saying,like, hey, uh, we'll build this
for this much money, and you'llowe us this much as a you know,
in a result of it, uh, they'relike taking the entire possible
GDP that the government of someof these nations could like
dream of in a decade.
(35:04):
Yeah.
And they're taking it in like asingle project, a single
infrastructure project, like aroad or a uh electrical grid or
plumbing infrastructure, walllike clean water, right?
And so then they have thesecountries buy the flipping ball
sack for decades and decades.
(35:26):
It's like, oh, you're you're notgonna pay.
Oh, well, then power's off andthe water's off.
Yeah, we're shutting down theroad.
Um, and then it and like they'reagreeing to like essentially
like the Chinese government ownsthose assets and stuff, and
they're they're purchasing upessentially territory nations,
yeah.
Which don't really be very wiseof the Chinese, not very wise of
(35:49):
everyone who's just like sellingoff.
Oh yeah, today I'll do that.
Well, because they're not evenselling it, right?
SPEAKER_03 (35:55):
They're just handing it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
They're saying, like, yeah, you can build that,
and yeah, we'll pay to build it,and we'll have our people help
you with it.
And you know, it's pretty smart,right?
Because the Chinese never buysthe land.
SPEAKER_03 (36:06):
Right.
Well, it a lot of what theChinese are doing, the China is
the world's biggest importer offood and resources, right?
Like it's actually a veryresource-poor country.
Um, and so for places like SouthAmerica and Africa, uh, and
Russia as well, but like youcan't really take advantage of
(36:28):
Russia in the ways that peoplehistorically have in Africa and
South America.
So the the presence of Russiaand China in Africa secretly
that people don't really see orrealize, like there are like the
amount of missions that themilitary is currently doing in
(36:51):
Africa in this like secret fightfor resources and um areas and
territories in Africa.
They shot at the Chinese.
SPEAKER_01 (37:01):
My buddies were deployed, they let they had
fired warning shots at theChinese regularly.
Yeah, because of how close theChinese would get with their
land vehicles, and dude, theChinese would like play chicken
on the road, like they woulddrive at you.
It's so funny.
Trying to get you to likeAmerican humbies to like drive
off.
SPEAKER_03 (37:20):
And I was like, that's insane, dude.
And there, I don't think I don'tknow if people remember this,
but there was recent, like maybeabout a year ago or so, kind of
a big deal that in a territoryin Africa that France had, uh,
the people in in that territoryin Africa were just like, yeah,
we don't want the Frenchanymore.
(37:41):
Like, we want the Russians.
Yeah.
And they were just getting readyto basically kick the French to
the curb.
Uh, but most it was some stupid,stupid amounts, like 70
something percent of um France'suh uranium was coming from their
further nuclear power.
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (38:01):
And it was a really big deal because France was just
gonna be shit out of luckbecause the Russians were just
coming in and just isn't FranceFrance still shit out of luck.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Like, aren't they still using gas pipelines from
or natural gas pipelines fromRussia?
SPEAKER_03 (38:16):
I know Germany was Germany was, yeah, yeah.
Um, and that's that's why theNord Stream pipeline really,
really bone them.
Um well, they bone themselves,basically, is what they did.
SPEAKER_01 (38:27):
When they're like Russia's bad, we're supporting
Ukraine, and Russia's like,okay, power off.
SPEAKER_03 (38:32):
No, they were like, Russia's bad, so we're gonna
blow up this pipeline that weused.
SPEAKER_01 (38:37):
Well, they opened up all the coal mines in Germany
again, too, which was prettycrazy, like as a result of that.
SPEAKER_03 (38:43):
Yeah, and then Russia, oh then Germany also has
a very recent which you don'tthink that this is that this
wasn't a thing until they saidit out loud, but they're
starting to re-militarize, andyou're like, You guys don't have
a military?
Like, I thought we said youaren't allowed to do that ever
again.
SPEAKER_01 (39:00):
We started letting Japan do it when Japan was like,
dude, do you see China?
Pretty close.
Yeah, you guys, you guys couldmake a military if you need.
SPEAKER_03 (39:09):
But it it makes you think about what's going on.
Well, you had mentioned that,like, yeah, there's a lot of
countries that are basicallyhanding themselves and their
land over because they're notthinking that far in advance.
And it's like, yeah, it's it'strue.
And even countries that youdon't think would do that do do
that, like Venezuela right now,or like a lot of countries in
(39:32):
South America where like onedictator person takes over this
regime change every like 10years or 15 years, or the CIA
marches in there and does theirthing, and then all boom,
there's a new yeah, there's anew person in there.
Um and so all these like crazyrelationships and like
territories get formed in areas,and it's like we're we're kind
(39:55):
of looking in the eyes of thisthing in Venezuela, which I
think actually as of tonightwe'll figure out if they did
indeed declare a soft war inVenezuela that they were I don't
think they have to declare waranymore.
Uh well as as of very recently,they declared Venezuela as being
(40:16):
part of a terrorization, whichallowed them to do inland
strikes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
Yeah, but that also means you don't have to work
around.
That also means you don't haveto declare war with like with
the nation of Venezuela.
Right.
You could just be like, Well,well, it's another war on
terror.
SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
Yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
And there was there was we weren't at war with
Afghanistan.
We were at war with terroristsin Afghanistan.
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Not the country, not the country, just their
citizens.
SPEAKER_01 (40:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
That's where the um it's I I typed in like I just
asked chats like what's umwhat's China's interest in
Jamaica and just even like chatGPG is like they want to be
close to the Panama Canal forsure and control it.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, all right, that's there itis.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
I definitely think that's we're getting so
sidetracked, but we gotta lockdown that Panama Canal because
if we lose the extra set, we areso boxed in.
Um okay, but before we move onfrom Jamaica, man, I just I
guess I kind of want to knowlike anything that you think you
could like if you could tellanyone else who's going there,
(41:21):
right?
On mission trips.
I know we're sending like fouror five more teams or something.
Um, but uh there might be otherpeople who are going out and
doing their own trips as well toany of these kind of Caribbean
nations impacted.
Do you have any likerecommendations for like, hey,
here's how to make the best useof your time, really, with like
the impact I saw and like youknow, going in kind of not
(41:43):
blind, but going in not reallyknowing like what they might
need most of.
Um because I I mean I don't knowhow much food did you guys take
down there versus like clothingand supplies, you know?
SPEAKER_03 (41:54):
Yeah, we took a fair amount of clothing.
Apparently, clothing is m muchmore in demand than I had
anticipated.
So I think that will be a apretty big thing for the future
trips is bringing a lot ofbringing a lot of clothing.
SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
That's that's surprising me because I would
think they'd have plenty of thatcovered versus food.
Like I would I would think likefood would be much more of a
higher priority, but yeah,that's what I thought.
SPEAKER_03 (42:18):
I don't Quite understand.
Um I probably should ask morequestions in the realm of like
why clothing, what do you need,what do you need for
clothing-wise?
Yeah.
Outside of like socks andunderwear, that stuff that stuff
makes sense, you know.
He bought through quick.
Um, but uh yeah, I think maybeone of the most important things
is like when you kind ofencounter like when a country
(42:42):
encounters like a disaster likethat, I think the issues the
issues of that society caneither become more pronounced
afterward, or it's anopportunity for things to look
different, I'd say.
Like small examples that there'sthere's not many young men in in
(43:06):
a lot of these mountain towns,and also just because of the
culture there, it's not verycommon that young men stick
around after someone'simpregnated, after a female.
Yeah, they knock them up andthen they leave, bro.
Yeah, and so there's there's a apretty big lacking of male
leadership in communities, butsomething that happens like when
(43:28):
none of them are working, theyall go home.
So, like right now, maybe morethan ever that I've seen is like
there's actually a lot of theolder older guys or kids, not
even kids, but young men likethat are in their 20s are like
back home with their familieswhenever they're probably out
shagging typically and like andspread and seed, and you don't
(43:51):
know what happens after that.
Um, but it's like this is liketo some degree kind of a
starting fresh point.
So the more you can kind ofconnect with people in those
communities and yeah um I don'tjust be like praying for them
and um like trying to not givedifferent perspective, but you
(44:15):
don't want to like come in likechange a culture, but just like
be praying, like working andliving alongside them that maybe
you change like some hearts orsome thoughts on things and um
the issues of that communitylook a bit different, could look
a bit different afterward, youknow.
Um the work ethic of the youngmen there is pretty poor.
(44:36):
The reality is that when you'resitting there working, that was
one thing I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
Was the when you got there, it'd been a month, like
was there kind of a lot of justa bunch of stuff still sitting
around, you know, or like and orlike and in general too, like
maybe what you're about to sayis like the uh yeah.
Like I said, just go ahead andsay what you're gonna say.
So I think you're gonna answermy question.
SPEAKER_03 (44:59):
Well, yeah, yeah, it's it's um when there's not
like men in the like in thosehouseholds and the the moms are
taking care of their kids, thenthe house projects that they
have or like the betterment ofthe home gets put on the back
burner for sure.
And that makes the that makesthe houses worse, which then
(45:22):
make it even more difficult whena natural disaster does happen,
that like these houses are stillpretty behind.
Uh and then the other piece ofit is that um like when we were
there doing work, uh this isjust kind of like a cultural
(45:44):
piece of it with work ethic.
Like fathers being in the home,like in homes do a great deal
for young men and kids in termsof identity and encouraging
encouraging.
(46:04):
He does have a father, don't lethim lie to you.
SPEAKER_01 (46:06):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_03 (46:08):
Um Jesus?
You mean God?
SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
Yeah, that is my that is my my heavenly father,
is my earthly father.
SPEAKER_03 (46:14):
Um and so just like a lot of these young guys just
don't have they don't haveidentity, um, and they don't
they don't have a lot ofdiscipline.
Um and there's no when there'sno sense of identity, there's no
sense of basically like pullingyour weight in the community.
(46:35):
Uh like a the way I look at itis that like a present dad, like
at the very least, you see yourdad get up and go to work every
day and come back and bitchabout his job, um, and tell you
to straighten up and make you gooutside and mow the lawn.
Um and that's like that's likethe bare minimum, right?
(46:56):
And then like a really fantasticone, like basically says, like,
hey, yeah, you gotta pull yourweight because you're part of a
community.
And if you're not adding value,then what are you even doing?
Um, and so you like witnessthat, but when none of that's
around, then none of it'shappening at all.
So you could be like we'resitting there like cleaning up,
like a lot of these kids willlike go to the church for food
(47:18):
or like go there for help orguidance or power, even like to
charge their phones, and youcould be sitting there clearing
up trees and stuff, and like Ihave a great deal of love for
like a lot of these young guysthat are there, but they'll just
sit there and basically likeholler at you, just watch you
work, and just watch you work,yeah.
And like you'll walk over andlike talk a little bit of shit
(47:40):
to them and stuff, but they'lljust be talking shit to you the
entire time that you're working.
SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
That's crazy, dog.
That is absolutely wild to me.
SPEAKER_03 (47:47):
Um and outside of the disaster, they probably have
jobs, like they m they would beworking.
SPEAKER_01 (47:53):
But in this instance, like what age are
these young men you think theones that are because I would
imagine that mom, if mom'srunning if mom's alone in the
household, mom's putting thechildren to to chore work,
right?
SPEAKER_03 (48:05):
You would you would think.
You would think.
SPEAKER_01 (48:07):
But are you saying like none of these children show
like none of them work at all?
Like none of or none of themlike have a sense of duty and
discipline to like help clean upthe community?
SPEAKER_03 (48:19):
The youngest ones in times I've been there, the
youngest ones will help work,but it's just because they want
to hang out with you.
SPEAKER_01 (48:26):
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03 (48:27):
So they'll like come alongside and like.
Like young teenager, yeah, like12, like pretty much like it
from 11 to like maybe 15.
Like they'll come and hang outwith you and help work.
But if you're not there, thenthey're nothing's gonna happen.
But the ones who are sittingthere like talking shit and like
watching stuff, like they're intheir early 20s to mid-20s.
(48:48):
Okay.
Um, maybe even like 17, 18 orsomething.
Uh and the the males who are thebest and the hardest workers are
significantly older.
Yeah.
Like they're like the pastor.
Yeah, like they're in their 60splus.
Uh we had one guy working withus that he works for the church,
(49:10):
maybe, maybe volunteers, I don'tknow.
But he's dude, he was like inhis 70s, and I had I had no idea
because he's still out therewith a chainsaw, like going
going to town.
SPEAKER_01 (49:21):
Dude, I bet that dude is just pure ropey muscle.
SPEAKER_03 (49:24):
Yeah, like he like he's he's fantastic, dude.
He's in he's in great shape.
And then we've worked with guysthat are in their like 60s that
are just like freaking muscledout and they're like digging
holes and stuff going to town,but they've like lived in those
communities their entire livesand um feel a sense of like
purpose and belonging.
And a lot of them like hadfamilies, like closer-knit
(49:47):
families.
So it's possible that like thefatherlessness generation is
more recent um as it is in theUS too, like the past like a
couple or few generations, youknow.
Yeah.
Uh fatherlessness, especially inthe US, hasn't always been a
problem.
Like it's it's increasing everygeneration.
In the past few, it's beenparticularly bad.
(50:10):
Um but in the long haul, itreally just like will completely
degrade a society.
SPEAKER_01 (50:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I think uh, you know, I I don'tthink Mexico and Mexican culture
is equivalent.
It's not.
Um, but when we were down inMexico, that was one thing I
remember like the first missiontrip I was a part of down there,
when we were really like layingthe roots for what we were gonna
(50:38):
do down there.
The pastor Javier and like onedude who I don't I don't think
he had a family.
Just one dude would show up andsit in the church, other than
like a few women and theirchildren would come.
And when we were working, onedude showed up from the
community.
This is in a rural community,this is Insenata, Mexico, big
(50:59):
giant city.
Um, and I think a lot of it wasthat the community hadn't seen
the value there yet.
And it was cool over time, everytime we went back, there was
more and more people and moreand more men and more and more
kids.
Like, and I when I say kids, Imean like high school age that
(51:21):
were willing to come and helpout on the projects that we were
doing.
Um, and I remember the firsttime we had like contractors in
Mexico.
Um, and I think a lot of thatthough, culture-wise, is
surrounding like they didn't seethe value in doing that after
work.
Like they had their own jobsthey were going to during the
day when we were working andbuilding things.
(51:43):
And then as the church becamemuch more of like the community
saw a huge value in it, the theworkers came around it.
And that was the cool thing,right?
Like, like you were saying, likefor the first few years, outside
of us, there was just reallynothing Javier and his family
could do to continue theprojects we're doing.
It was just him and his family,and they were having to run the
(52:05):
church and the kids had to go toschool, right?
And so, like, but then there wasstarted coming, like we'd come
back and like a lot of work wasdone in the meantime while we're
gone because the community sawthe value in it.
And I guess that's my kind offinal question here.
Like, what is the community'svalue of the church here in
Jamaica?
Because I don't hear too muchabout I'm not saying it doesn't
(52:27):
happen, but I don't really heartoo many stories about the
church's growth or how it'sgrown.
And I'm wondering, like, inJamaica, do they see like a
church in their community?
And is there like a strong likefaith presence, or is there like
a competing belief system withChristianity and they don't see
(52:47):
a lot of value in the church asa part of the community?
Because it I think it's very,you know, different across
cultures on like if they'regonna place value in the local
church, the local, and when Isay church, the local Christian
church, or if it's just there,but they have a different belief
system that is more integral orculturally more popular.
SPEAKER_03 (53:11):
Yeah.
Uh in in this one in particular,like the church plays a pretty
big role because the people thatare in that community, their
families have been there for along time.
Um and there one thing I do findinteresting is that with the men
there and and the women as well,but more surprisingly, the men,
(53:32):
is that there is a very highlevel of respect for the pastor
and the church.
I don't know if that's in allcommunities, or just this one,
but there's a high level ofrespect there.
Like there's like kind of anacknowledgement of the pastor as
being like a father figure in inthat community.
Um now, how much people arewilling to do to like help them
(53:57):
out, not really sure.
But in in a church setting,churches have always been a
little bit more likeheart-tugging for women than
they are men.
Yeah.
Like even at our church, likeit's the fact that there's even
much of a like a tight-knit malecommunity at our church is
abnormal.
(54:19):
Right.
And so um I think that in somesocieties the family structure
is really important, and then insome locations, the community
structure is really important.
And in these ones, there is verymuch so a community aspect.
Everybody knows each other,everybody's very friendly to
each other, like they all likeacknowledge each other, um, like
(54:41):
when walking on the streets, butthe family units are really
broken.
Um not really, but they but theyare broken, and and there's just
a lot of like disorganization toit.
Whereas, like I think in Mexicothe family units are pretty well
organized, and that's part ofyeah, not only Hispanic, but
like Hispanic, like Catholiclike culture is that the family
(55:03):
unit is really important.
The women in those families areprobably the ones that are more
involved with the local church.
Yeah, the men are out workingprimarily, but I don't know, but
I feel like I see less of acommunal aspect in Mexico than
in some other places.
Yeah.
But the family structures are somuch more intact.
I think that's a fairassessment.
(55:24):
Um, and again, I could be Icould be wrong about that.
Like I can't I can't say I'vespent a great deal of time in
smaller communities in inMexico, but no matter what, the
smaller the community, the morecommunal it is, regardless,
right?
That's why cities are just solike desensitizing, basically.
SPEAKER_01 (55:41):
The reason I just asked that is because you'd
think with if the community is aChristian community invested in
the church, you'd think thenthat would trickle down into the
men having like understandinglike the Christian value of you
know the the fatherhood and likethe role of the a man in the
household and the expectations.
(56:02):
And so that's why like I'vealways kind of scratched my head
of like because I always hearlike when people come back from
these trips is how like the menare not involved, like the men
are are leaving that community,and I just always kind of was
like, that seems very oppositeto me of if the men believe in
the church and are Christianmen, you'd think they'd stick
around with their and like lookafter their kids.
SPEAKER_03 (56:26):
Well, I mean you have to consider too that
similar to Hispanic communitiesand American communities, like
the women are usually the onesthat are more involved in the
church.
And there can be a church there,but if Christ is not the center
point in a family unit, it isnot going to override culture in
(56:47):
a country.
Um like that culture, thatculture will dominate and take
first priority.
And so if the same thing hasbeen happening for generations
in men, which is uh like we seein a lot of communities here in
the US as well, where the likemen have a particular view of
(57:08):
like work and families and likewomen, and there's not really
much of a value on like if youimpregnate somebody, you stick
around, sort of thing, you know.
Um, and so it's like the onlything that can change that
dynamic is either a generationaldifference, which is a man being
in the household and changingthat point of view, which
(57:32):
overrides that culture, orChrist doing that as well,
right?
Like there's so there are a lotof families, like the pastor
himself seemingly don't know100%, but seems like he grew up
probably in an intact family,and then he himself did the same
thing.
And then some of the men thatare there too that do do that,
like do stick around, do haveintact families and are married
(57:54):
and with kids and stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
So there are men a part of the church that have
like begun to change culturallyand like past like change the
culture.
SPEAKER_03 (58:03):
Yeah, the first time that I was there, I saw them.
This time we I didn't see them.
Um, I saw the younger men there,but not not so much the older
men.
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Um which it is a post-disaster scenario, so they
might be working at a lot ofother stuff too.
SPEAKER_03 (58:18):
Um so yeah, it it really takes either Christ or an
intact family for the nextgeneration of kids or men to see
it differently than theirfathers did.
Um and so that's what that's whyit's like generations of people
separate from Christ, they don'tget better, they get
(58:41):
progressively worse.
Yeah, um, and we see that heretoo.
Uh, and they just go indifferent directions.
But the culture culture is justso strong outside of the
presence of Christ in familiesand communities that like it
takes a lot to override whatpeople are doing consistently.
And um that unfortunately likeis one of like fatherlessness,
(59:03):
like is a generational problem.
SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (59:06):
Um, and it gets worse.
SPEAKER_01 (59:08):
Yeah.
Well, I kind of want to keepthis keep this episode just
focused on this.
So I think that's you know, apretty good summary of the trip
and all that.
I guess if there's anythingelse, you know, Dean, that you
kind of want to have as likefinal thoughts or anything like
that, you know, give you thefloor for anything else you want
to say.
(59:29):
No pressure.
SPEAKER_03 (59:30):
Yeah, no, I think the the I think the only thing
I've got is that I do believethat um like God is trying to
like raise up a generation ofmen that have been largely
absent for a few generationsnow.
Um I don't really know entirelywhat that looks like, but uh men
(59:57):
kind of like swung in this likereally like kind of like post
post-World War II, likehardened, like hardened, like
classic man sort of thing tolike the the generation of dads
and parents that were likereally damaged, um like by like
(01:00:20):
either like kind of umtyrannical almost, uh, and then
now you've got this like kind offresh generation of men and
women as well that have a reallyopen view of Christ and the
church.
Uh, and those ones God is likeusing very heavily right now.
Like they're really, in myopinion, kind of like they have
(01:00:41):
these untainted views of Christ.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:43):
Like the pendulum swinging the other direction.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:46):
The pendulum is swinging big time.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:47):
Um that's that's encouraging.
SPEAKER_03 (01:00:49):
Yeah, and it's it's all it's all over the world
that's that that's happening, Iwould say.
Like you see it here in theStates as well.
Um, it seemed like you kind ofhear this a little bit here and
there, but that like the churchin the US is uh shrinking in
size, right?
(01:01:10):
And that might be churchattendance, but that's not I
don't believe that that's anaccurate representation of what
it actually looks like here inthe states.
Like the biggest undergroundchurches in the world are in uh
Iran and China, which are liketwo of the places where they're
not allowed to be, right?
Yeah, um, and those populationsin those countries of Christians
(01:01:32):
are probably bigger than theyare in the US, but the US is
largely delayed in its movementsbecause we kind of have a crappy
canvas to be working with.
Um so God is doing big things inthe US.
The church is not dying in theUS, it's just taking time to do
(01:01:53):
it.
And in a lot of the surroundingareas, like God is doing a lot
of things in the youngergeneration of men, including in
in in Jamaica as well.
Um, but it'll be prettyinteresting to see.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02:05):
Appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:06):
Pat, you got any final thoughts?
Till next time, folks.
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