The Mick & Pat Show - Signal Leaks and Splinter Cells

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When a medical professional warns against using tourniquets, it raises an alarming question: are outdated ideas still being taught in modern first aid? This episode dives into life-saving medical techniques, revealing the stark contradiction between current tactical medicine and what some healthcare workers still believe. Your hosts share details about upcoming emergency medical triage training that could make the difference between life and death in crisis situations.

The conversation takes a serious turn as they analyze the recent Signal group chat leak involving Trump's cabinet members. This security breach exposed classified information about missile strikes against Houthi rebels, demonstrating how even high-level officials can fail at basic operational security. The hosts carefully navigate this complex issue, explaining why it's neither a "nothing burger" nor equivalent to previous classified information scandals, while discussing appropriate consequences for such breaches.

Global security threats take center stage as they explore how traditionally adversarial terrorist groups are now cooperating in unprecedented ways. The stunning footage of Houthi rebels assaulting cargo ships with helicopters illustrates this evolution in real-time. Your hosts break down the significance of these developments and what they mean for international security, drawing on their knowledge of military operations and intelligence.

The episode concludes with thoughtful reflections on political messaging, international diplomacy, and the human element in security decisions. Whether you're concerned about personal preparedness or geopolitical stability, this conversation offers valuable insights into how security protocols affect everyone – and what happens when they fail. Join us for this illuminating journey through the interconnected worlds of emergency medicine, operational security, and global politics.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's crazy is that people you know just based off
of our avatars, are going tothink we're both white guys, but
they don't know you're black.
And I think that's the mostsurprising thing, for when
people come into the studio,especially my voice, why not
expect it?
Anyways, something crazy.
Not too crazy, right, but I washaving a conversation at dinner

(00:23):
with some friends Billie Jeanand I and one of our friends is
a nurse and I was telling themabout how I'm stoked for the
training we're doing on Sundayto do some like serious, like
you know, active shooter medicaltriage training, get a lot of
guys experienced on how to applytourniquets, how to do like a

(00:44):
March assessment right, and findlike identify injuries and
what's going on and essentiallydo life-saving medical stuff
until the pros get there and canget people on ambulances into
the hospital.
And in that I was talking abouthow we were doing things in.
This nurse was like wait, wait,are you you're gonna use a

(01:09):
tourniquet?
I was like yeah, they're like Iwouldn't do that and I was just
like, immediately I was like,okay, like was she 60?
no, no she's, she's yelling, butlike um, immediately I was like
all right, get, let me.
Let me just hear it because sheis a nurse.
And so, like I want to, youassumed she was a nurse, you
assumed it was a woman.
I mean, you said was she?

(01:29):
I didn't even say all rightyou're gonna say the gender male
nurse?
Um, just kidding.
But no, yeah.
So I was like, all right, letme hear her out, because I want
to hear what she has to say.
And I'm not a medicalprofessional, right, I've just
received training.
And she's like yeah, theconcern about that is limb
amputation, about a tourniquetapplication.

(01:49):
Dude, they're reading a bookfrom the 80s.
Well, I just, you know, you gotto let them.
Here's the thing, man, you andI, pat, we might be not in the
know about the latest medicaltraining.
That's true.
Because she did just finish herlike nursing last year.
So I was like okay, what, if?
What?
She, maybe she knows something.

(02:10):
But anyways, we talked about itand I was just surprised
because they are still teaching,like in like wilderness
survival shoot.
That's like what she references.
Reference like she's like I didwilderness survival, first aid,
cpr certified, and they're likestill teaching don't use a
tourniquet if you're at way outin the woods, cuz they could
lose their limb.

(02:30):
Uh-huh, for having thetourniquet on for like eight
hours, I'm like I understand,like you are the professional
right mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
This is your job.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
That said everything I understand.
Like you are a professionalright Mm-hmm, this is your job.
That said everything Iunderstand from like the
training I've done.
They've said there's actuallynever been a case there's not an
actual medically recorded casethat someone's limb was
amputated because of thetourniquet.
There was times where, like, atourniquet was applied and the
limb by the time they got backto society had such bad bad like

(03:07):
infection and such or there was, you know, such, you know
horrendous damage to the limbthat they decided to amputate it
.
But I've never seen anythingwhere it was like, yeah, because
that tourniquet was too tight,we had to amputate the limb you
know what I mean?
yeah, and then the other side ofthe argument.
I was, like you know, I wouldalso wonder too, like if we
really broke it down, you know,liter of blood per hour or

(03:29):
whatever, right, how much you'relosing per hour?
Yeah, if that tourniquet leadsto a blood infection and your
lower limb or your arm orwhatever, let's say you got to
get it amputated, how long likewould not putting a tourniquet
on?
Would that person have diedfrom blood loss well before that
?

(03:49):
or, like you know, you don'twant to you know, I'm saying
it's like one of those things oflike you really gotta like play
the bouncy game of like, evenif a tourniquet is applied and
somehow that leads to, uh, anamputation, at least the
person's still alive becausethey didn't bleed out.
So I just thought it wasinteresting.
In no way or shape or form do Ithink she was like wrong in her

(04:10):
assumption.
I think that is genuinely whatshe was taught.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right.
I think she was maybemisinformed, because Wilderness
First Aid has been still doingthe no tourniquet thing, which
is crazy to me because that islike one of the things I make
sure to pack on every outdoorthing.
Right, and I could see where,the assumption being, let's say,
you're three days from medicalattention Right, which maybe

(04:34):
that's the case but at the sametime, most times if you're
injured enough to need atourniquet, at that point you're
getting out fast, and or if youcan't get out fast, you know
helicopters coming in to get youor something, or something if
you can.
Um, you know in, in the bestcase scenario, someone's coming
to get you search and rescuewhatever.
Which, on that note, have yourradios exactly?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
have, uh, have the garment in reach, have radios,
have something where you can getyou're not going to, you're not
going to jail if you uh, youknow override a frequency on ham
and don't have a license.
There's little like laws andcodes that protect you.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
For if it's a medical , life-saving emergency, right,
you can use it for sure, forsure, and there's like all sorts
of things out there, tech wehave um even the, the iphone's
getting there like even on, yeah, I.
The only thing is is like it'suntested, it's right now you
know what I mean, because, likeyou, can't test it without
facing super bad legalconsequences, right, right, yeah

(05:29):
, I'd say that's true, but atthe same time, just the
capabilities of being in thewilderness and having a
satellite connection, emergencystuff.
It's like what I'm saying isit's more and more common that
you could get somebody to comeget you out, and if it's so bad
that you need a tourniquet, youneed a tourniquet.

(05:49):
And because you're gonna,you're gonna and and and I would
say too, yeah, don't you?
You know, know when to apply atourniquet also.
Right, that might be like theif the training too on.
You know, if people panic andthere's a bad cut that could
have been stopped with pressureand and packing, you know
they're, yeah, but then theyjust go straight for the
tourniquet, you know, versus Idon't know.

(06:10):
I think I'm going to err on theside of tourniquet typically.
For sure, yeah, me too Ifthere's spraying or pulsing, or
you know we're going towards thetourniquet, and people don't
like improvised tourniquets, butif I don't have one, I'm gonna
try to do something.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
yeah, you know, like well, one thing I've always like
heard too.
That is like if you don't have atourniquet, one of the best
things you can do is put, like arock or something else that's
rather round over that woundhole, that channel and like wrap
it, use your belt to like addmore pressure, right, and it's
not going to be enough pressure,right, not going to be even

(06:47):
remotely close to what you couldget with like a windlass
tourniquet, but it's going to bea lot more on that spot and you
still will, you know, hopefullybe able to start making your
way to go get help.
But, um, we'll, yeah, we'll, bepracticing.
I'm pretty stuck to sunday.
We're gonna be doing for those,uh, don't know.
Ken, welcome at this point.

(07:09):
If you're hearing this episode,we've probably already done
this training.
Uh, it's probably alreadyhappened, but you are, if you're
listening to this episode,probably watched our uh, ifac
breakdown with our buddies onthe podcast.
Um, and uh, with that, you know, hopefully you have a better

(07:30):
idea of, like, what we'retalking about when we're talking
, like, uh, life-saving medicineand you know the means for the
everyday person to have thetools and knowledge of how to
apply life-saving medicine, sothat way you can get to the
professionals who can do theprofessional stuff.
Um, but all that said, um,we're doing a training and, uh,

(07:53):
this training is with a guy whois a search and rescue dude most
of the time around, likethroughout the year but he also
is augmented and gets paid to beuh, what our boy Rice-a-roni
was and go and be essentiallylike a medic on a SWAT team an
attachment there so he's got alot of serious real-world

(08:16):
application.
I'm pretty sure he was also amedic in the military, if I
remember correctly.
But all that said, the trainingwe're doing this Sunday we'll be
going over for everyone on oursecurity team.
We'll be going over like easystuff in the beginning, right,
like just a diagnosis of the medkit we have on site at the

(08:38):
church, which is like a verybasic, what you would have in
the back of an ambulance, Iwould say in a single kit, and
just like when to use what outof there and what things do.
And if you don't have thetraining to use this thing,
don't, don't touch it.
But then getting into more ofthat, like after we do that

(09:00):
we're diving into like how toapply a tourniquet on yourself.
If you're shot and there's noone around and you got the
tourniquet, how to put it onyourself properly, how to put it
on a buddy, how to identifywhere the injury is at and the
proper level of application ofthat tourniquet.
Then also, moving on from thatwe'll be doing like a bunch of

(09:28):
injury assessments and likemoving through stages of like
essentially like basic emergency, uh, medical training, right.
So like, if there is still anactive threat, how do you,
what's your priority?
The person who's got, you know,an aortic bleed coming out of
their armpit or thigh, or thedude who's shooting, still, the
priority is to stop that guyfrom shooting anymore.

(09:50):
People, right, um, and if youcan't stop him, then you need to
wait, you need to stand byuntil the threat's over before
you go in there, start trying todo triage, medical, um, and
it's like that kind of stuffthat we'll go through.
And then we'll do a bunch ofscenarios, um, some that are
like very unlikely to occur,right, but like just good
scenario, uh, thought practices,right.

(10:13):
But then, um, outside of thosescenarios, there'll be some more
practical ones, like thelikelihood of someone getting
injured in a car accident orsomething right outside of the
church, or they're crossing thesidewalk and get hit by a car
and then we have to do like youknow.
We don't have to right, but likeyou know as a as god-fearing,

(10:33):
you know citizen of my country.
Yeah, community member.
If I see someone get hit by acar in the crosswalk outside the
church, I'm running over thereto try to make sure they're
gonna be alive by the time theambulance arrives.
Yeah, um, and none of this islike.
This training is very muchfocused on like hey, this is not
heroic.
Like you're not going to be adoctor, you're not.
You're not going to be a nurse,you're not even going to be an

(10:55):
EMT.
But what you can be is someonewho is trained with the
knowledge to at least takeaction to give that person the
best chances of survival,especially if it's yourself.
Um, so I'm really lookingforward to it.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
I don't know, pat, if you got any thoughts from what
you're looking at, just likewith a training document and
stuff yeah, no, I think that hegave us this list of scenarios
that we're going to run throughand they're going to be kind of
on the uh yeah, on the, likeyou're saying, on the less
likely to happen side of things.
But I think what's?
good about that case yeah, yeah,worst case scenarios, and the
good thing about that is kind ofpush your mental limits to, you

(11:33):
know, to the further end, tosee where you're at and train up
to those things where then youknow as other things happen, you
know when you have minor thingsoccur, you are just able to,
you know, have a better grip onthose things as well.
And so, um, I think it's goingto be good for our, yeah, our
team to have all that stuff,that equipping and, uh, and
confidence too.
Like I, uh, I know there's, Ithink I just am like an idiot,

(11:58):
and so I am, uh, I just thinkI'm good to go Right, but
there's, and so, and part ofthat in my life has given me, um
, has given me a good edge whereI just like, I just confidence,
just the confidence to just doit, um and then, but then that
obviously that does um stunt meor you know, or leave me um with

(12:20):
blind spots or thinking you cando more than you can do.
But I know there's guys on ourteam who also are on the other
end of the pendulum, like wholike would be or do, who are
nervous or, you know, notconfident in themselves or like
really want to have, like youknow, the this sort of training
that is going to give them theexperience, the reps, and feel

(12:42):
like they know what they'redoing and feel like they know
what they're talking about.
And obviously I need to do ittoo.
But I think that it's going tobe a real confidence builder for
our team and I'm lookingforward to the technical
proficiencies and the teachingand scenarios we're going to run
through.
I think they'll be supereffective and just as far as the
materials he's sent us so far,I think it's going to be good

(13:03):
and just as far as the materials, he sent us so far.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
I think it's going to be good.
Yeah, and I did the IFAC classwith him, where he just went
over like what should be in yourIFAC and how to use it.
And it was super awesome.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
And.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I really enjoyed that .
So, yeah, pretty stoked forthat.
But all that said, you know itis crazy what people are still
being taught and like today,wilderness, first aid stuff, um,
you know, I guess part of me isjust like scratching my head
and I'm like god, the last thingI want, if someone put a

(13:34):
tourniquet on my leg when I getto the hospital, is for someone
to be like, oh my gosh, he'sgonna lose this limb, take that
tourniquet off and then I'mflipping, bleed out you know,
what I mean Exactly.
I'm just like don't touch that.
I want to have the presence ofmind to be like do not touch
that, leave that on there untilyou guys are ready to go in
there and freaking cauterizethat shit.

(13:55):
Anyways, pat, we got some badnews this week, dude.
Oh yeah, some bad news thisweek, dude.
Oh, yeah, some bad news, well,other than just the fact that
it's tax season and that justsucks, because you're either
going to get decent news of likeit's not great news, but it's
decent news because thegovernment's like hey, we

(14:16):
charged you too much in taxes,here's some back.
You're like would have beennice to have this money anyways,
like throughout the year, but Iguess I'm happy I got a little
bit back.
And then there's like the worstnews of like oh, hey, by the
way, give us more.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
And you're like oh, dude, no, especially if you
thought you'd done it right likeyou, like you've been paying
into, you've been doing thething and you're like uh-oh bro.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
So here's the thing.
Billy gene and I, we'reapproaching Total household
income, take home Of Almost like200k.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Between the two of us .
You're in a different game thanyou were Back in the college
days.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
When I didn't even have to do taxes Because I
didn't make enough, but likewhen we look at our paychecks, I
mean dude, our paychecks posttaxes this year are like hardly
above I want to say like 120combined income, like we were
taxed an insane amount.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
You got up into the next league of getting smacked.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
It was mind boggling to me how much we paid in taxes
and stuff and I'm just like, ifin the fact that like they might
want more, I'm just like dude,I just it's enough to make a man
start thinking like marvin hemight.
Okay, all right, uh.
But yeah, so we're paying aprofessional to do our taxes
this year because it's just likeit's just too much of a
headache now, uh, especiallylike we're at the phase in life

(15:43):
where we just have more and moreinvestments and things we're
putting money into to try tolike save up for retirement or
family.
Then you have everything withlike property taxes and your
mortgage interest.
It's all a lot more complicated,so much more complicated, like
one w-2 or whatever yeah, andlike, well, originally Billie
Jean learned how to do our taxeswhen our combined income was

(16:06):
like 90 K and it was prettysimple back then.
We didn't have enough moneyleft over from paying rent,
groceries and savings to likemake it complicated, right, you
know.
And so it was easy back then.
And then now, as we've grown inour jobs and have been blessed
with growing in income, that'sawesome.

(16:26):
Like we're super thankful, youknow, praise jesus, that we're
there.
But it's also like why the hell, or why am I even asking billy
june to do this?
Like like this is we?
If we make this money, weshould just be like muscling up
to just like, freaking, pay aprofessional to do it, so that
way it's not a freaking headache.
So I think we're biting thebullet this year and good

(16:48):
nothing.
I know we are.
I just talked to someone andI'm like we're just gonna pay
them whatever it is honestly.
Here's the thing if somehow,let's say, the feds, like you,
owe us four grand, and then Ipay this person three grand to
keep me exactly like to pay himthree grand to make sure I don't

(17:08):
end up having to owe more moneylike then, like that's worth it
.
I don't think it's going to bethat.
I think hopefully it's like ina couple hundred dollars.
But that's just the example, Iguess.
But anyways, that's the sidetangent, the real bad news, the
real bad news uh, the signalgroup chat leak.
Now, pat doesn't know about thisbecause he's been a busy,

(17:29):
hard-working man.
That's a good thing.
It's good to have a job thatkeeps you so busy you can't pay
attention to the bullshit, uh.
But I'm, I'm, you're here now,pat, and I'm gonna get your raw
opinion on air right now whereyou're asking questions.
But this week a uh journalistat the atlanta post was invited

(17:51):
to a signal chat.
Signal is a group chat uhmessaging platform for those who
don't know, and essentiallywhat it does, it encrypts all of
your communications.
So that way, outside of signal,if someone intercepts those
text messages and such, it'scompletely encrypted and they
can't unencrypt it.
And it's very easy like withthe way the uh sending and

(18:13):
receiving uh algorithm iswritten that when you delete a
message it deletes it foreverybody, not just for you.
And if you edit a message itedits it for everybody.
So it's often used by a lot ofpeople who are talking about
things that I'm not sayingcriminal at all, because I
definitely use Signal and Idon't use it for any criminal

(18:35):
stuff, right, but I definitelyuse it for like I would say yeah
, the privacy of knowing, like,hey, I can talk about finance
stuff and I'm not too worriedabout someone intercepting these
messages and be like, oh, sothat's his social security and
his bank account, yada, yada,right.
Um, I also use it for talkingwith like dudes I'm talking

(18:57):
about stocks and investments andstuff just because it's a lot
easier to talk about it therewithout someone on the internet
saying you know, let's say, youpost on Reddit, right, and you
see on Reddit, hey, I'm going tobuy this stock because I think
it's a good investment.
Someone might be like hey, Ilost a lot of money, I think
this was insider trading, yada,yada, right.

(19:18):
And then now you know someone'strying to sue you or whatever.
So it's just a way ofessentially covering your ass,
right, guys?
It someone's trying to see youor whatever.
So it's just a way ofessentially covering your ass,
right, guys?
And it's convenient, because ifyou said something and you have
a typo that's goofy, you canfix your typo and it fixes it
for everybody.
But what happened was that thisAtlanta Post journalist was
invited to the signal chat andthe signal chat was aliased to

(19:41):
some degree of who was in it,but it was mostly people of
trump's cabinet.
Trump wasn't in the chathimself, from what I understand.
Uh, someone had invited him tobe in the chat but he never

(20:08):
joined.
Itouthi rebels were takingplace.
He didn't say where they weregoing, he didn't say you know
what the location of the targetswere, who the targets were.
But he apparently was sayinglike yep, we just did the first
missile.
Like we just did the firststrike.
Like like we just did the firststrike, oh, we just did the
second strike, things are goingwell, you know.

(20:29):
And like reporting, likecasualty estimates, which that
is a hundred percent withoutlike there is no debating this,
that is classified information.
That information, regardless ofmy opinion of whether or not
the public has a right to knowthat or not, that's still
government classifiedinformation and that is being

(20:52):
disseminated on, even thoughsignals quote unquote an
encrypted app.
That is not a secure form ofcommunication that is approved
by the Department of Defense forthis level of stuff.
Yeah and like, even though it issecure and, yes, you would not
know what those messages wereunless you were in the chat.
The issue is someone invited ajournalist to it, which means

(21:13):
it's therefore no longer secure.
It is not right.
There is someone there who doesnot have a need to know, that
now knows, and it should havenever happened in the first
place.
This is clearly a breach ofsecurity.
There should have never been agroup chat with these, uh, you
know, politicians involved on it, these cabinet members, uh,

(21:36):
talking about declassifiedinformation.
Um, the fact that there was islooks really bad, because a lot
of these republican, uh, youknow, and these now, I would say
new republicans, because tulsigabbard is apparently one of
them um, a lot of these peopleare the ones that are saying it
should be jail time for howhillary misused her personal

(22:00):
laptop with all these classifiedemails and classified
communications on it, and it wastotally insecure.
And, yes, like, regardless.
I don't care what yourpolitical beliefs are, but like,
russia totally got a hold ofeverything off of hillary's
computer, like.
That has, without a doubt, beenproven.
Um, not, and not just russia, alot of people did.

(22:22):
Um, and so all that said theywere.
They were the people crying forjail time.
There are people crying forjail time for hunter biden, with
all of the uh intelligence, andlike classified documents on
his computer.
And now, yes, this is such asmaller degree and smaller, like
, uh, like it's classifiedinformation, and it's it's

(22:46):
borderline, barely classifiedinformation.
Right, it's classifiedinformation.
In regards to, like, this issomething that the government
itself doesn't report and share,but it can be reported on by
journalists who find out aboutit.
Right, if you're, if you're ajournalist near the houthi
rebels, it's a missile strikescome down and, uh, you intercept

(23:09):
some radio traffic that informsyou, like, these are missile
strikes from the U S.
Like, yeah, you have the rightto report on that.
Right, that is total journalism.
Right, you can report on that.
Um, all that said, though, thatis a way of discovering
information outside ofclassified communications.
It's like the naturalisticjournalistic investigation

(23:32):
process versus someone breachingclassified channels to share
that information.
So, anyways, all that said, alot of people are overblowing it
, saying this is just as bad asHillary, tulsi and Hegseth, and
all these people need to befacing jail time.
And then there's a lot ofpeople underplaying it, saying

(23:57):
this is a nothing burger.
It doesn't matter.
All that was shared was withother people who had the proper
classified like they had theproper clearance to know it was
just a channel used tocommunicate it faster to them
that strikes had begun.
Um, and both are wrong.

(24:18):
Both are wrong, right, like.
The issue is like it's in themiddle here and it's like black
and white and as much as peopledon't want to say it is, it is
black and white and thisseriously denigrates your
ability to have trust goingforward.
Now, I'm not saying hang them upby their shoelaces and like,

(24:39):
fire them and send them to jail.
I personally don't think thisis something that we would see
even myself jailed for.
If I was at this level, I wouldthink I would get a slap on the
wrist for sure.
I think I'd get fired and losemy job, but I don't think I'd be
facing jail time and that isperhaps someone can educate us

(24:59):
on that and be like dude, you'retotally wrong, but from what I
understand out of the a lot ofother leaks that have happened
over time, I do, uh, classifiedcommunications and security
training every year on, like howto make sure you're not
disseminating or sharinginformation that's classified,
even if, like here's a good one,right?

(25:20):
Let's say, for example, the jfkfiles.
They're declassified andthey've been released, but it's
still technically uh, if theywere classified and someone
released them, it would still beagainst protocol for me to even
discuss it.
It would still be illegal forme to discuss it, even though it

(25:41):
it's public information.
You can just get on theinternet and look at it and read
the file, right?
Anything that's stillclassified as illegal for us
that are employed and part ofthis organization of security,
we're still not allowed to talkabout it, and so it is 100%
illegal what they did it, and soit is a hundred percent illegal

(26:06):
what they did.
I am also a hundred percentconfident that anyone else who
did this would not face jailtime.
They would face repercussions,mm-hmm, and I don't know what
those look like when your Peteheads exists.
Secretary of the DoD, right,our Secretary of Defense, or you
know these other cabinetmembers, but I think it could
really look like you know, heavyfine and loss of office.
You could even get your.

(26:28):
I would even say like if theyrevoked clearances for some of
these people, well then, ofcourse, they have to lose their
office.
You can't be secretary ofdefense if you've lost clearance
, which sucks, because I reallylike the agendas that a lot of
them have come forward inproposing.
You know, especially like TulsiGabbard, I've really liked what
she's kind of proposing for heroffice and, um, you know, but I

(26:52):
also gotta be honest withmyself, like this is a huge fuck
up.
So, anyways, that's thesituation, pat, you're hearing
it first time Now it looks likeyou're Googling things up and
scrambling to try to get theinfo.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I just read through the the messages while you were
or giving the breakdown yeah, sowhat are your thoughts?
I mean, yeah, it's, and I was,I was screaming through them,
but the one I feel likeobviously there should be some
other I'm sure there is andthere should be some other place

(27:23):
where these people arecommunicating.
Yeah, and yeah, and there'sliterally microsoft teams on the
dod that you could communicatethis information through, like
there is a secure messenger forit and and at the same time,
though, if they brought ajournalist into that, which I
don't know if you're allowed to,you know know that probably not
, you know give them access tothat right now, Whoever, whoever

(27:45):
invited them, that's the thereally was like the goose, who
was like, ooh, they shouldn't bedoing this.
And rather than going like theproper authority channels,
they're like hey journalists getin here Cause I'd say the
information in here, yes, issensitive.
I would say.
I mean, it all came out so fast.

(28:10):
This was over the course of twohours of talking in the morning
, right, I was like this was aone day, I think, as far as I
can see I'm going through to seeif it.
I'm pretty sure it was all.
Yeah, this was all over thecourse from like 8.30 in the
morning till it did go all theway till that evening, 6.35.

(28:32):
So it was one day of chatting,right or like, but the meat of
it happened in that morning whenthey were talking, talking and

(28:52):
the um I the the biggest thingthat would happen with, I think,
the biggest mistakes on here isone whoever brought in the
journalist that, whoever didthat, dave should face the most
consequence because and I don'tknow how signal works, but I
would assume that, like some ofthese, these people talking on
here didn't know or approve that.
I don't know.
Yeah, no way, right, so like,and in that sense like, even

(29:15):
like, just just taking legal outof it, just to be like all
right, five friends are having agroup chat about something
that's like kind of sensitiveand then they bring their other
friend's wife in who's the mostchatty kathy ever and just put
her in the group chat you knowwhat I mean.
It's like it's like addingsomebody's like the.
It's adding the gossipy wife tothe bros group chat like, like,

(29:37):
like, hey, be careful.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Be careful because our wives love to talk and they
might think we have somethingnot chill in our group chat,
which we may or may not.
Well, we have chill stuff inour group, it's babe.
Babe, hear me out, it's okay,don't listen to Pat.
There's nothing sus in ourgroup chat.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
It's just things you might not like.
You might not want to see theYouTube fart video compilation.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
You might not want to see youtube fart video
compilation you might not wantto see.
You know, yeah, like, but it'snot like we're.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, I get what you're saying, like you know,
when one of our buddies buys agun, he tells us about it.
And like you know, like that'sit, that's sensitive information
, you know.
And then he finds out via hisfriend's wife.
His wife finds out from hisfriend's wife.
Now we've got a big pickle thisis what a big pickle, right.
And so just, I mean just just, Imean based off of like pure

(30:28):
common sense, like what, how didthis happen to?
Um, yes, the things they weretalking about on here, I guess I
don't know the level of likeclassified stuff I'd say, well,
I'd say telling f-18s to launchand drop bombs is probably
pretty like classified as far asjust from.
I don't know all theclassifications or how they talk

(30:48):
about it, but I'd say you don'twant the enemy or anybody else
to know your plans before ithappens, because these are big
operations.
These are pretty serious things.
So, that being said, I don'tknow what the repercussions
should be for it.
They should be on it, theyshould be in a I don't know what
the.

(31:08):
I don't know.
I'm not saying it's right orwrong, I'm just saying I don't
know.
I don't think these peopleshould lose their job for it.
Maybe whoever brought thejournalist in, because that's
just such a big no-no.
And also, yes, use a differentform of communication.
And that being said too, I meanhow many signal chats are there

(31:31):
out right now being used byevery country's secret squirrel
stuff?
Who's using signal?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
They all are secret squirrel stuff, who's using
signal?
They all are.
Worst part about it, man, isthat a lot of people don't get
what is known as and this mayseem on the nose, but it's like
signal signature, which is oftenused for like you have your.
You have your signature, likean electronic signature right,
like are you, do you havesomething going off?
Gps wise, that is a signatureto follow you by.

(32:01):
Do you have your?
Uh, what's a lot of people isknown as like your human
signature, which is honestlylike your voice echoing through
the trees, the smell of youraftershave, um, the reflection
of your skin in the sunlight,like those are all signatures
that someone can use to find you.

(32:22):
Right, and signal signature issuch a huge issue right now that
the actual like United StatesMarine Corps just released a PSA
video for Marines about how tonot like you need to stay off
your phone.
In fact, you need to not bebringing your phone at all on
missions, which is kind of crazy, because I think a lot of
civilians are just like a lot ofcivilians.

(32:44):
I think thought for a long timelike the military just didn't
let you have a cell phone while,like you were deployed, like
you just had to go use like thelike the landline or the sat
phone, right.
But, um, nowadays everyone's ontheir phone texting and they're
literally like in this like psathing, there's a marine behind
enemy lines that's hiding outsomewhere and separated from his

(33:07):
unit and he texts them wherehe's at his location like
coordinates, and his team saysany sign, anything.
It's hours past by.
He's like no, I don't haveanything.
All right, cool, we're movingin and come and get you.
And as they're moving up,freaking drone strike takes them
out and it's's like yeah, youknow why?
Because someone wasintercepting those messages and

(33:28):
knew the exact grid coordinatesyou were going to be at and
waited until you decided togroup up to drop a bomb on you,
Yep, and that's where.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And we didn't know warfare like this really.
I mean it's been around, butlike until the Ukraine war
kicked off, that's when it waslike the common, the cell phones
with like you're bringing itdown to the common soldier, like
you had other operations goingon high.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Uh, like high tech high speed stuff like
triangulating radio figuring newstuff.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
But then it became like you know, yeah, where it
was like, and we saw it I meaninstagram, reddit, everything
was just blowing up with.
We were getting live feeds,basically, of the whole war
going on, until everybodystarted getting droned out
because of their exactly thesewere live streaming on twitch or
instagram.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
You know the war in ukraine.
And then people were like, yeah, we can definitely track, like
where that live stream is comingfrom.
Boom, blow them up.
Yeah, and so, like now it's abig issue, right, and this is it
?
Right because I have to becareful what I say here.
Right, because I'm not reallygoing to discuss the actual
sensitive material of thesemessages at all.

(34:28):
But the issue with these is thatthere is no operation security.
When you were talking aboutoperation security on an
insecure, like unsecured networkthat's not approved and like
there is, like it's, it's unrealhow ironic it is.

(34:51):
And this conversation, you know, in the, in these group
messages and whatever, right,because essentially what's been
reported from the news andjournalism is like they're
focused on trying to makedecisions in this group chat on
signal um, before going publicin conversation with about it

(35:12):
for an appearance of you know,like a unified cabinet, right, a
unified war war cabinet.
And the issue is that whensomething like this leaks
because it's not on a securenetwork, it shows behind the
curtain and how disorganized youare and how not unified you are
and it's like it really is theworst case scenario for any kind

(35:37):
of you know uh, leadership team.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
So and I don't know, did you?
Notice I notice the two veryironic things in this message
thread.
I can't read the message thread.
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Well, because I work in security and this is
technically not declassified soI can't read it.
I'm just going off of what I'vebeen essentially able to read,
without actually discussing orreading the actual sensitive
material From this signal leak.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm not looking at any of the messages able to read
without actually discussing orreading the actual sensitive
material From the signal link.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
I'm not looking at any of the messages.
Oh, you haven't read them.
I can't.
It is literally against the lawfor me to read and discuss the
actual content.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Of this article on the.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
BBC.
I can read the journalism aboutit right, but I cannot
distribute the material ordiscuss material.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right, I will.
I'll say two things that arenot classified, which would be
in this, in this conversation.
Somebody said twice we will doall we can to enforce a hundred
percent OPSEC, that's, operationsecurity, which is they're not
doing in this very moment.
And then he goes on to say, um,we need to make this happen fast

(36:46):
in case this gets leaked, sothat's so now.
So they knew now, you know, asfar as the timeline, this is a
one day thing, but the timelineon this he was saying we need to
get this because the discussionwas going on about whether they
should do it now or later, andthen they decided let's go now.
And they, from what I'munderstanding, and then

(37:08):
basically part of that being,yeah, we need to, basically we
need to get this done in casethis gets leaked, which this I
don't think he was meaning.
This message that I wasthinking Like the news of the
strike.
Or they meant this plan, yeah, Iwas thinking he like the news
of the strike, or they meantthis plan, yeah, but this plan
did get like the actual verything that he didn't realize how

(37:28):
much the leak was going tohappen on the leak, which was
the actual text that said thiscould get leaked, got leaked.
So yeah, pretty, pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, so it's just one of those things of like man,
like it's wrong what they weredoing.
It's also wrong that ithappened and got leaked, but I
get it and it's bound to happen,right.
And like there's going to beugly things.
You know, even if you're youknow pro this administration,

(38:02):
there's going to be things theydo that's ugly're you know pro
this administration.
There's gonna be things they dothat's ugly and you it's you
can't get behind.
And I just honestly don't knowhow you can get behind this kind
of really like, just lack ofsecurity and laissez-faire like.
I don't know.
Man, for me, if I would just bethinking, like on any of my
messages, like do I should, Isay this, should I be saying
this outside of a secure room,outside of a skiff, you know,

(38:27):
and if the answer is notemphatically yeah, that it's
okay, then I then don't evengamble, even if you're like I'm
not sure, maybe I should censorthis part out or whatever, like
and like the fact that thishappened is just, it's so
embarrassing, um, and I feel bad.
I feel bad for, you know, thepeople who entrusted this admin

(38:51):
and cabinet to not do something,this stupid um, because now
I'll say this what is probablyhappening is that they're
doubling down on their security.
But if it got to this point onsignal, I would warrant a guess
that there's some people doingsome dumb ass stuff on their
personal phones, personallaptops, personal computers with

(39:13):
information that's supposed tobe secured and classified no,
definitely, and the um one thing, that's one thing I was
thinking about this was what arethe grounds for charging
somebody with treason and whatare journalists protections?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
On if a legal definition of treason is treason
is the crime of betraying onecountry by attempting to
overthrow the government or byhelping its enemies, and so by
leaking, by putting this in likeI don't.
Like, I mean, I don't thinkthis person should be charged.
The journalist should becharged with treason,

(39:53):
necessarily, but where's theline?

Speaker 1 (39:54):
but where's?

Speaker 2 (39:55):
the line on, like you know what, what.
What's that journalist's umresponsibility to you know a
good question to this you knowas well.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I think it's something like essentially like
First Amendment applies when thejournalism is revealing a crime
taking place.
That's true, and if classifiedinformation leaks out of that,
then that's because it's thefault of the administration or

(40:23):
the United States committing acrime.
If they weren't committing thecrime, the information would
have leaked and the journalistswould have been got a hold of it
.
I think it's the concept ofWatergate, right?
Yeah, had they not beencommitting a crime, that would
have never spilled out, right?
That would have never happened.
Anyways, I don't have a wholelot more to say on that other

(40:43):
than like it sucks.
Um, I think it's pretty muchwhat it is.
You know, it's basic bread andbutter.
Um, like I said, I don't thinkit's more than what it is and I
think people are trying todownplay it as not a crime.
And also, people are trying tomake it sound like it says.

(41:08):
People are trying to make itsound like it's as extreme as
Hillary, like forsaking you know, our people in Benghazi, right,
and it's like it's it's.
It's neither of those.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, yeah, yep, uh, but got to
tighten it up there.
Can't gosh, can't be doing that.
I mean.
Well, I mean it just kind offeels like rookie maneuver, you

(41:39):
know.
Yeah, so wow, well bet thatjournalist is not getting
invited anymore Chats.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Well, yeah, I mean I'm just going off of what I've
read like reported right withoutlike reading into the
classified stuff, so I don'tknow From best what I understood
.
They were invited in by someone.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
It might have been that someone, someone else,
leaked the information to them.
I don't know.
Yep, yep, oh man pretty crazythough, right, pretty crazy,
pretty insane.
And yeah, in the uh, it's funnyhow the pendulum is swinging
back and forth on uh, you knowthat a complete and utter
outrage.

(42:30):
And I mean I read this and I'mnot that outraged.
I'm like, hey, this was bad,can't do that again.
It's bad behavior.
Yeah, I'm, I think I'm, I thinkI'm it's bad behavior.
Yeah, I think I'm aligned withthe activities they were doing,
like as far as like thedecisions they were making and

(42:50):
where they were leading thecountry towards, like you know
now, the operational securityside.
No good, what was being donewas all right, you know.
Unfortunately it was dronestrikes and people were dying,
so I don't know the completefallout of that and but, um,
yeah, we will see what happenswith that, or does it just, you

(43:13):
know, blow over tomorrow?
I don't know, you know how theuh, how these happen, but this
it looks like did this happenbasically yesterday, today,
today, I don't know, seemspretty fairly recent.
Um, the let's see the message.
Message was, messages were on.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Um, oh, there's no date Interesting, huh Well,
alright, I guess you could askthe Houthis yeah, yeah, um,
which is also like interestingin regards like how informed are
you on the Israeli news, rightWith, like, where the Houthis

(43:53):
are from?
Yemen, right, yep, and theceasefire is still in place with
Gaza and Hezbollah, right?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I believe it is still so there but like the houthis
can are kind of threatening thatthat ceasefire yeah, yeah they,
because they, they kind of runaround the red sea and make
stuff bad for for these folks.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
I will say I did watch the video.
I'm pretty sure it was Houthisright when it was, them on a
helicopter landing on an actualSuez Canal ship that was hauling
freight and they were taking itover.
I'm going to see if I can findthis video real quick, because I
feel like if you've seen it youknow exactly what I'm talking

(44:41):
about.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
And the Houthis were on a helicopter.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, they were on helicopters landing on ships to
like.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Take the ships over yep, the uh, the game is
changing over there as far as,like, I feel like it was on a,
it was on recruit mode for along time.
I'm not saying that the warwasn't hard, that people were
fighting over there like in 2003or whatever, but um, you know,
it was like like the ShaneGillis stuff, where he's like
you know the, the guy, you knowwho his feet move when he shoots

(45:13):
and you know out there in flipflops and pajamas, versus now,
like, oh, we got night nightvision and helicopters and um
training off of YouTube, youknow, or whatever.
Like uh, all the things thatare uh it just the game is upped
over there as far as the what'sgoing on and the uh Al Qaeda

(45:33):
Islamic state, um Houthis, umISIS, um, they're all uh Al
Shabaab, they're all gettingmuch stronger.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Better kit.
Yeah, but also like their locusof control.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Their region has grown and they have also started
.
Even the ones who hate eachother are working more and more
together now.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Now, one thing I am curious to on that point while
I'm pulling up this footage ofthis freaking helicopter landing
because it's unreal, I'm tryingto pull it up unedited, um, but
uh, with what you understandabout the relations over there
for the radical islam groups, doyou foresee really like a

(46:19):
potential of like taliban andlike Houthi and Hezbollah and
ISIS-K Like do you reallyimagine like that the heads of
the Hydra can all focus on onething without biting each other?

(46:42):
Because I feel like it's alwaysbeen like either there is
multiple, like either it's, youknow, the U?
S or Israel, or a combinationof you know nations just cutting
heads off the Hydra and tryingto keep more from growing.
But in my lifetime I can'tremember a time where there were
the heads grew big enough andhungry enough that they started
eating each other.

(47:02):
I of I'm trying to remember Ican't remember for sure but back
when isis was like a issue andmaking their you know the
caliphate, the isis state right,weren't they at war with the
taliban for a while?
Technically like, weren't theyum, not conflicting?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
yes and no.
I mean there's the because itgets.
It gets obviously gets supercomplicated in a couple areas,
like taliban.
The best way to think about thetaliban is just a, a government
body, and then the best way tothink about al-qaeda is a
ideological group, and so thosecan a Venn diagram can cross

(47:45):
over there where you can have,you know, like the Taliban is
sympathetic to Al Qaeda and whatthey're doing Now where it gets
confusing.
And if you go back into, likeRussians, 90s and stuff, you
have the Mujahideen who were,you know, like, at one point the
Mujahideen were fighters whowere against groups like the

(48:08):
Taliban.
But then if you the Mujahideenduring like the end of the GWAT
or middle GWAT, like 2006, 2013,like they were, they were
aligned with the Taliban.
So the Al Qaeda the best way tothink about Al-Qaeda is, yeah,
an ideological group that'swidespread.
They go all the way from thewest coast of Africa all the way

(48:35):
over, clear into Pakistan,across the whole continent.
I mean they have groups in um,like all, like established
groups in all those countriesthroughout africa, in the middle
east, um, and then you know,then you have you know, then
isis popped up.
Um, especially syria and iraqis where they they've

(48:56):
specifically popped up initially, um, but those, what's going on
right now actually is osama binladen's son, who we said was
dead, is alive.
He has been marrying groups.
He's been marrying wives he'sbeen setting up.
He's been marrying the wives ofthese other terrorist groups and

(49:17):
setting up the kingdom and andpulling it together, and so that
is a major player.
Um, I'm forgetting his name, uh, hamza hamza bin laden is his
name, and he is basically, uh,one of the key players in
aligning these terrorist groups.
And so the I think, to answeryour question about you know,
kind of the hydra, because youhave, you have lots of

(49:38):
infighting.
You then you have um, you evenhave the issue of the um, shia
and the sunni who hate eachother, but even and not every
shia, not every sunni is withinterrorist groups, right, because
shia and sunni is a huge yeah,those are like muslim people not
like almost like best way tosimplify sunni shia would be

(49:59):
catholic protestant yeah, youknow
just like there was a, there wasa great rift in their religion
and there's two sides.
And then think about those two,like the Catholics and
Protestants, during likemedieval times of, like you know
, fighting over, you know, bigparts of land, and so they have
a bloody history with each other.
But those who have becomeradicalized, but those who have

(50:23):
become radicalized, whateverthey are, sunni Shia, or the
ones who become radicalized, areputting aside their differences
to join forces to be stronger.
And these groups are training,cross-training with each other,
the Taliban basically.
Also, at this point in time too, al-qaeda is pulling all the

(50:46):
strings of the Taliban.
So, like I was saying, you havean ideological group and then
you have a governmentestablishment.
The Taliban is basically ran byby Al Qaeda and what they want
to see happen.
And so I think that eventually,yes, these little factions and

(51:09):
things could fall apart, but forthe moment, they have an enemy
that they can look towards,which would be the last 20 years
of what we've done.
It's a lot easier to unite allthese folks against, you know,
the the west, and so that'swhere they are.
It's a little scary because thefact that in the past you could

(51:33):
rely on their uh, the riftsbetween the groups, and now it's
um there's nothing likemarrying them off to create
allegiances.
Yeah, so it's kind of old worldstyle If you're in a religion
where you can have a harem.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
It's really easy to streamline it.
I just sent you a link to thisvideo.
You can pop it up on your phone, but this is the Guardian News
that has posted this video andit's the footage showing armed
Houthi rebels I don't even knowif you can call them rebels
anymore.

(52:09):
Armed Houthi members droppingoff from a helicopter to seize a
cargo ship in the Red Sea.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
And they have a GoPro on their own helicopter.
Oh yeah, it's their video.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
The cinematography is pretty insane.
Um, they got like drone doingflyby stuff here yeah I mean
this ship was hijacked by thegroup on sunday.
Israel claimed the sea ship wasbritish owned and japanese
operated.
Dude, imagine being a Japaneseman on this ship and just being

(52:44):
like what the fuck is happening?
I will say in this this is agreat video to watch of like how
not to work as a team, becausethere's a lot of moments of
watching it maybe not in thisvideo because of how it's cut,
but there's a lot of momentshere where I see dudes literally
running up to corners withtheir barrel, their AK pointing
at the back of their homie'shead.
Good, that's what we want.

(53:05):
Yeah, we don't want our enemiesto have good tactics, but I'm
just saying this is a good thingto watch, to realize how not to
do this, how not to storm aship.
Wow.
They got the pistol yelling intohis radio, mm-hmm Yelling into
his radio.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, I mean, it was a multi-faceted.
They had helicopters coming in,they had boats coming in.
Yeah, bro, I'm surprised.
I mean you know Pretty crazyright.
What's gonna be good forbusiness in that sense is gonna
be people are gonna start hiringout the.
It's gonna be good for guys whoare trying to find a job, who

(53:53):
used to, who retired out of themilitary and they don't have
anything else better to do.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
They're gonna go sit on those ships and make fifty
thousand dollars in two weeksdefending them yeah, see, the
one thing they don't tell youabout, though, is the rations
when you're on those ships.
Yeah, I talked to a dude whowas a well, he claimed to be
doing a maritime security.
He said there was one time hewas on a ship for a six-month
stint and the crew didn't knowhow to ration the food.

(54:19):
Well, and by the end of it,they were eating chicken feet
and bags of rice for like threemonths, because people just
garbled through like the actual,real food rations.
But yeah, isn't that nuts, dude?
The way they're just stormingthat ship, it's just crazy to me

(54:40):
, gosh.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Wikipedia still says that he's dead.
Hamza bin Laden, hamza bin ship.
It's just crazy to me, gosh.
Wikipedia still says that he'sdead.
Hamza bin Laden, hamza binLaden, he's not dead, he's alive
.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Pat.
Pat, come on, Can you calm down?
Are you telling me you're oneof these conspiracy wackos that
believes I bet you believe Osamabin Laden's still alive?
No, he's dead, okay, but do youbelieve he died from seal team
six?
Yeah, you don't think he diedof a urinary tract or whatever?
Or, if not, your?
Head track he.
What was it?
They said he had failingkidneys right in uh testicular

(55:10):
cancer or something, and that hedied a long time ago have you
heard of this conspiracy?

Speaker 2 (55:16):
yeah, yeah I.
Yeah, I have, but I don't he'son dialysis.
Yeah, I, I think, uh, I I think.
So here's what I know I.
You know a dude who was there,yeah, well, yeah, I I I know a
guy, I know, I know he, I knowit happened.

(55:36):
That's all I'm gonna say.
I know, I know that SEAL Team 6got him that night.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Yeah, I'll say this.
I also know of an individualwho has claimed to see Elvis
Presley on the moon.
Just kidding, no, I believe ithappened, because there's a
couple of people I met that havetold me that they've seen the
actual photos.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yeah, that's the thing the osama bin laden with
the round in his brain.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I know someone who got the photos at the same time
the president did so it's likeyou know what I have to say to
that deep state photoshop babydude photoshop but the um, no,
the uh um, but with haza binLaden.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Basically, we claimed to have killed him.
We didn't, and he's.
He's come back around, it'sclear.
There's pictures of him.
Other, like other, governmentagencies around the world have
verified yes, he's there, he'salive.
But the United States has not,has not admitted that he's, or

(56:44):
like I guess, like admitted thathe's alive.
Because, then we'd have to admitwe missed.
Yeah, but he is and yeah, allinformation's coming out that he
is Basically he's not the kingof the whole deal, but he is a
big player in it and he ishelping unite things through
marriages.
Who he's not the king of thewhole deal, but he is a big
player in it and he is helpingunite things through marriages

(57:05):
who he's marrying.
There's tons of guys who we letout of Gontuano Mobe, who were—
Say that again.
Yeah, I know, sorry, I just sawyour hat on your head.
It threw me off.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Gontuano.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Yeah, well, he has your hat over here, over your
headphones.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
It's kind of hurting my hair so I put it on over
there.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
That's fine.
But in Gitmo, as the peoplecall it, there's lots of guys
who were just let out of there,who have just reestablished
terror organizations.
You know part of, like, thepeople who did Abbey Gate stuff.
Some connections too have comeout between isis and um the new

(57:45):
orleans attack you know thatwanted to call a lone wolf
attack.
Um, that's looking like not thecase.
So the hydra is currently kindof united, um, not to freak
anybody out or scare them, butjust you got to be aware of it.
Um, and a ton of them have comeover here over the last, you
know, four years.
But that's another issue thatwe could, you know that uh, to

(58:09):
be addressed.
But yeah, we'll see, we'll seewhat that looks like and
hopefully they kind of the thebeast eats itself, um, because
of their inability to unite, butfor for the time being it's
happening, they're gettingtogether, so we'll see.

(58:30):
Some people think right now thatbasically the attack like we
saw in Israel is very similar toattacks that are being planned
for here in America and thatit's just going to be on a
different scale.

(58:50):
But there's, so there'sinformation from that and lots
of people, resistance fightersin Afghanistan who are still
resisting Taliban fighting.
There are also been warning,you know, of the plans that
people, that you know the umthese terrorist organizations
have for harming America andwe'll see how that plays out

(59:12):
over the next couple years, butkind of crazy, kind of wild yeah
, it is pretty crazy, I thinkthink here's my prediction we're
about to get some really sickrecruitment ads.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah, I think the military and DOD is going to be
like you know what.
We should recruit people whowant to go kill bad guys, and
that's their main driving factor, and they don't even need to
know how to read.
Uh, we just need like, justgive us all of them who want to,

(59:48):
who we can teach how to followorders and shoot a gun.
Uh, because, honestly, like,recruitment's so low.
And why is it so low?
Because there's like not a reallike fear of an enemy abroad.
You, most people, are moreconcerned about what's going on
at home right now, and that'salways going to be more
difficult to have a standingmilitary especially.

(01:00:09):
I mean, I've spoken with so manyveterans that are like you
cannot pay me enough money tojoin back up because I'm more
concerned that I'd be, you know,requested to do something in a
martial law scenario, right, andI'm just not.
I didn't join the military tobe stationed at home.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Now I will say on that note, I know quite a few
dudes who are down in Mexicoright now.
We're on the border, they'restoked, they're like like it's
freaking game time.
Dude, I'm happy to be heredefending my border, you know,
but I don't want to be herepolicing my own people yeah, no
for sure, and man, we'll see onthe border stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
It's interesting the that's some crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
I didn't watch the cario again the other day and it
just made me like, just think,like, dude, it's, it could be so
wild.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Yeah, so yeah I did the same.
I watched the car, like two,three weeks ago also, and I was
like this is this?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
yeah, it's, uh, it's wild down there and because I
don't know where we're at with,like you know, declaring, you
know, cartels, terroristorganizations, all that, and how
that's gonna, that's allowingus to, you know, operate
differently in those situations,um, I think if you declare them
terror organizations, that doeshelp with certain agencies
being able to operate at home,like certain agencies are only

(01:01:32):
allowed to do things againstterror organizations and they're
not allowed to take actionunless that organization is
declared a terror organization.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
But I think, are we also allowed to now this
consistent country sovereigntyissues?
But like are we allowed to?
You know, like, I think,basically we can do more things
and have it not be an act of waragainst that country.
Yeah, right, if we go dosomething in another country, um
, but it has to be, you know,with permission of you know
whatever other countries.
So some thumbs up, yeah, butthe um with the.

(01:02:03):
I will say, I think thatwhoever's running the like white
house instagram page, they'regetting a little, they're trying
to like.
I haven't been, I'm not oninstagram.
What's going on?
It's just like, I will say it'sjust insensitive.
You know, like they did an asmrvideo of illegal import of of

(01:02:24):
um, of deporting the legals.
No way of like the chainsclinking no way dude that's not
real.
It's just really dehumanizing.
I think, and here's the deal, Idon't want these people here,
like, and when I say thesepeople, I mean illegal
immigrants, yeah, for one, butespecially especially, um, uh,

(01:02:44):
criminals, right, and people whoare dangerous.
Now, if I was on the other sideof the border and I tried for,
and I was trying to get in thiscountry, I'd be trying to get up
here.
Now, yeah, I would probably tryto do it legally, but if I had
to, I understand the plight ofpeople and, on an individual
basis, I might try to get overhere and start.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
You know, just get over here get a job, do the
thing right, so I understandthat if I got booted out of the
US into Mexico, I would beworking pretty hard to get back
into the US right, and I meanjust in general.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
I'm sympathetic towards people trying to come to
this country for a better life.
Now, what I'm'm sympathetictowards people trying to come to
this country for better life,Now, what I'm not sympathetic
towards is, um, violent,dangerous people and who also
people who don't want to adoptthe culture they they move into
either, Um, and I think that, um, that being said, all these
people are humans, even thecriminals, um, and they need to

(01:03:40):
be um either brought to justice,left the country, whatever, but
they still have.
I think they should still beallowed to maintain dignity.
And some of the posts that'sgoing on, you know lots of
people.
It's just classic, where peopleon the right are just, you know
, kind of like hell, yeah, ha ha, laughing about it, and then
people on the left are veryupset about it, and it's not

(01:04:03):
just people on the left, it'speople even like you know, um it
it's just kind of people whosee other people as humans,
going like hey, I don't thinkthat this is how I like I don't
like it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
This is not the image I want for, like the for
position of authority in mycountry, the position of
authority for our country.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
The message to the rest of the world that it sends
and I think that all it does toois Biden got.
You know he was very heavilycriticized for not uniting the
country.
Yeah, you know what elsedoesn't unite the country?
Things like this through anInstagram post that are just
going to fuel the fire of thepeople who aren't on your side

(01:04:43):
within our country, and so theit's not helping bring United
front.
It's not helping you look likea professional and, yeah, show a
video of us supporting them,but don't like make like an,
like a joke, like ASMR videos orlike there's another one they
did of somebody, some randomperson made like an ai video of
gaza with like trump towers andlike people and all this stuff

(01:05:06):
did you see that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
I'm looking on their thing right now on the white
house?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
I thought it was on the white house page, or you
know I'm not seeing this on thewhite house's page.
It was the, it was the, it wasit was being put, or at least
the story straight off oftrump's.
You know, know I, but I the um,um, the um, the Gaza one, too
was like you know, this uh, aigenerated video of like Gaza
basically turning from rubbleinto like casinos and Trump

(01:05:33):
towers and like super rich andwealthy and it.
But it was just weird and causealso the AI people were weird
looking at it.
It was like disrespectful tolike arab culture, the
palestinians there, um, and justreally like you know, it was
really upsetting to a lot ofpeople to see it like that,
where you know, when you know,when trump had come out and said
you know that what they'regoing to do with gaza, you know,
and how they're going to takeyou over and and kind of it.

(01:05:55):
Just, oh, I see it, this gaza.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Gaza 2025.
What's next?

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Yeah, and it's just insensitive and to, I think,
also like to just all sorts ofpeople.
It's just not the thing to beputting forward and like I don't
think that memes and meme-ytype, you know posts are like
the way to go with, like fromour top dogs.

(01:06:24):
Maybe a joke every once in awhile about something that's
maybe less, you know, volatileor less serious.
Sure, post a funny joke, be ahuman, you know, and post
something funny, show thatyou're real.
But when it has to do withthese people's lives and
everything lost, all thesethings just like come on, like

(01:06:45):
it's not gonna, um, it's notgonna win over hearts and minds
of the american people, who arealready the ones who are very,
uh, either mildly opposed orvery adamantly opposed to you,
and so, anyways, it's just uh, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
I think that yeah, dude, whoever is like this has
got to be a psyop.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
I cannot believe somebody made it so just a rando
made it and then it kind ofwent viral and then, like trump,
reposted it.
You know, oh my gosh dude.
So, and you could see whereyeah, okay, some random kid was
messing around or whatever makespart.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Part of me makes me wonder if Trump even knows,
because I got to imagine Trump.
Yes, he's lambastic, but Ihonestly got to wonder if
someone showed him this wholevideo.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
I think he could be tone deaf to it as far as the
fact that he's 80 watching it.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
He's tone deaf to it, Likebeing like oh, oh the kids these
days doing this crazy shit.
Yeah, you know what I meanExactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Again, I mean I don't think he needs me to defend him
.
I'm not trying to defend him.
But I genuinely have a hardtime understanding that, like
this, dude wouldn't grasp thenegative optics that he seems.
Trump strikes me as someonewho's very concerned with optics
and appearance and I got toimagine if he saw that whole

(01:08:04):
thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
He'd think it was pretty, pretty bad optics.
It was as the the white houseasmr video came out on.
It was on x yeah, originallyyeah, that it, that came out,
but it's just yeah, the umanyways, I don't think that it's
helpful.
Um, that's bonkers do that sortof stuff.
You know, even down to like I'msort of indifferent to like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Gulf of america I could give two shits, but things
change.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
well, but meaning like, what was the?
What was the?
Was the goal to actually dosomething good or was the goal
to just rile up a bunch ofpeople about what you're doing
and just to assert your powerand dominance over something?
Right, for real, yeah, but Ithink that Google and Apple on
their maps, both are on board.

(01:08:50):
I mean, I looked on the otherday and it's like it's the Gulf
of America.
Yeah, it is for real.
You zoom out and that's what itsays.
It's wild.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I mean, I get it to an extent right Of, like North
America, south America this isnot just this isn't owned by a
nation.
The Gulf of California isn'towned by California, right, the
Caribbean Sea isn't owned by theCaribbean nations.
You know what I mean?

(01:09:20):
I don't know.
It's kind of and like a lot ofpeople are like wait, isn't the
gulf of california like the sameissue as gulf of mexico?
it's like I'm pretty sure, fromwhat I understand, california,
the name predates it's spanishyou know, yeah, it predates the
existence of the state rightright no, for sure, so uh I'm
not defending, I just don't careat all.

(01:09:42):
I have zero care for it beingcalled the gulf of america or
the gulf of mexico, right, andthat's where I don't get that
been out, shape out.

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
I'm just like what was the?
If you have so many big uh, ifthere's so much to do to
straighten out, was this the?
Was this really the top of thelist on day one?

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Let me ask you this Pat yeah, as a Trump voter man,
what's the priority you want?
What is at the top?
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah, just anything that makes differences to what's
already, like what's if there's.
The problem is the list is sobig, right?
So things like the Doge stuffwe've talked about on here
already, it's like we there's alot of it like what we're seeing
, you know, and efficiency stuff, you know, um, some of it I

(01:10:30):
personally don't, like you know,the approach, but, um, but the
need for it I see, or, like youknow, in, uh, hardening our
borders, you know that'simportant, you know, and the
thing they're doing, they'redoing a lot of that.
And then then it's like Cheapereggs, it's coming, cheaper eggs
.
Eggs are coming down a lotalready.
So those sorts of things,economical stability, all these

(01:10:50):
things, and so I just think that, anyways, I just don't know if
these semi-petty or power movethings are uniting or actually
moves the needle forward in somecases.
But you know, and same with,like you know, the big beef, you
know, flaring up with our 51ststate, you know, incoming from

(01:11:11):
the great white north.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
I know this is also going to piss people off I could
care less.
I could care less of Canada's.
Here's the thing I pretty muchwholly entirely agree with the
Trump admins point on likeCanada wouldn't exist without
the US, like Canada existssolely because the US is here

(01:11:34):
and Canada could have beensteamrolled by the USSR and
could be steamrolled now byChina or Russia, right, like if
it wasn't for the US.
So I don't think we need to ownCanada.
I don't think we currently ownCanada.
I do think, however, thatCanada I know like they're
seriously in debt to the USbeyond what they could ever pay,

(01:11:55):
and that we send them so muchmoney on loan for them to
essentially fix things thatshould be under their purview of
the government, such as, liketheir, a lot of.
It is like their oceanic border, like their coastal borders.

(01:12:16):
They have just almost zerosecurity for it and they
struggle a lot and we send themmoney on loan to try to build
that up and prevent illegalsmuggling.
Um, anyways, all I said, I couldcare less.
I don't necessarily think weneed to own canada.
I could see a benefit to it,yeah.
Um, I tell you what I honestlythink if we owned canada, we

(01:12:38):
could see an insane explosion inpeople leaving the US
quote-unquote right to go up toBC.
If people knew they could justgo up into BC and just live
there and still be an Americanand just retreat, I think we

(01:12:59):
would see an insane amount ofpeople leave other places,
retreat, I think we'll.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
we would see an insane amount of people leave
the other places and, uh, thewhat's what the power, the big,
the big d power move to is, likeyou know, the classic like
trump wins, I'm moving to canadaand then for like, the very
well, the very, the very smallpopulation that actually stuck
to their word, yeah, and then he, just just a couple months
later, just just thwarted.

(01:13:24):
But, um, I I do think there's anissue with, uh, respecting
country sovereignty and beingflippant with it.
You know, and yes, you know I,I'd rather have a good, strong
ally than just like um kind ofsomething that could be
contentious or whatever.
So but, and definitely, and Ithink that like, and Canada
definitely like knows, I thinkthat the people there know and

(01:13:47):
see and appreciate America forlike what we do and who we are
to them and why they the livesthey have because of the success
of America, and I think they,lots of them, do see United
States as like, kind of the bigbrother you know, and and and so
, and so I think there's ahurtful to a lot of those people
to be like hey, we were alreadylike, yeah, we're fans, but

(01:14:08):
like, but you're like, butyou're the way you're treating
me right now.
It's kind of like it's like youknow the, just just just hurtful
, and so then just throwingstuff off, you know and, but,
and you know the, we'll see.
I don't think we're takingcanada, but there's been lots of

(01:14:30):
?
I don't think we are, but it'dbe crazy, oh yeah and that, and
that's also already cooling off,and part of that too was like
that was a lot of that was trumpcoming after trudeau oh, yeah,
and as he's, you know, fizzlingout.
You know that that's going tocool off.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
One thing I do think, though, would be pretty
advantageous, especially if theywant to do this, Greenland.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah, greenland would be pretty sick.
Get that icy patch going.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Yeah, anyways, all pretty crazy stuff, man.
The world of politics is prettybonkers, ever evolving, um, and
you know what?
If anything, this is just alesson, I think to, not even a
lesson.
This just reinforces the pointof like politicians are people,
and often what I've heard isthat they're just the people who

(01:15:23):
are willing to start walkingand setting foot into the
political sphere because they'rejust so sick and tired of doing
like what you know the rest ofus enjoy doing.
Like so many people I hear likeI've been told, like I have a.
I have someone I know who worksin politics and he was saying

(01:15:43):
that his wording is that mostpoliticians are stupid.
They're very dumb, stupid peoplewho could never succeed at a
blue-collar job, let alone areal, like PhD-level
white-collar job, and they getinto politics because everyone
else is too busy working theirjobs and they're like I don't

(01:16:04):
have time to get involved withbeing running from air, let
alone being my county'streasurer, let alone xyz, right
and um, he's like I wish peoplewould, because all we need is
smart people to be in politics.
Most of the smart people are inbusiness and manipulating the
dumb politicians and I'm justlike, okay, I don't know enough

(01:16:26):
to.
I don't know, I don't knowenough politicians to agree with
them, but that's what he says,um, and he is a politician, so
it's kind of ironic, but, um,but uh, it was one of those
things where I hear that and Ijust think this kind of this
kind of stuff reinforces that.
You know what I mean.
Like, these are people.
These are not, you know,remotely close to divine, you

(01:16:50):
know godlike beings thatsometimes they were like, looked
at throughout all history, andthey're going to be dumb and
they're going to do dumb things.
They're going to have badopinions and sometimes we hope
that they get it right for therest of us, um, and they do the
right thing for the majority.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
But, all that said, we'll see for sure and like like
one of the classified things orone of the probably not
classified things on this group.
This goal group chat was uh, um, fist bump things on this group
chat was a fist bump Americanflag fire emoji Crazy.
Just like people just on thebro chat just dropping bombs in

(01:17:35):
the Middle East Absolutelyunreal.
It's wild, super wild.
Oh, but I think we covered afew things today.
Yeah, yeah A lot of drama,definitely, and I think we'll be
checking back in Probably nextepisode we'll be checking in on

(01:17:57):
probably go over talk throughsome of how that training went,
what we learned break down whatwe saw, what we, what we uh,
where we were falling short, andkind of what the tips and
tricks we picked up were.
And it'll be fun to go overthat and, um, just see uh
debrief that.
And you know if you're, uh, ifyou've made it this far on the

(01:18:18):
podcast, thank you, weappreciate you guys tuning in Um
and you can check us out on,you know, all the normal spots
where you can get.
You can listen to us.
We've got some on YouTube.
There's going to be, when thisis airing, we're going to have
some more videos out there,video format for you to be able
to look at the kind of ourvirtual studio that we've built.

(01:18:41):
And you can check out thewebsite.
We've got you know some linksand deals on there.
Get yourself equipped with youknow stuff and things.
And yeah, we're just glad to bedoing this, we enjoy it and
anything else.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
I guess I'll do your line Till next time.