The Mick & Pat Show - Who Killed Truth?

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When discussing the Jeffrey Epstein case, a palpable frustration emerges over what appears to be systemic protection of powerful figures at the expense of victims. The hosts articulate what many Americans feel—a growing disillusionment with institutions that seem increasingly unwilling to pursue justice when it might implicate the elite. This isn't merely conspiracy theorizing but a reasonable response to official narratives that continuously shift and contradict established facts.

The housing crisis receives careful examination through personal examples that highlight how dramatically the American Dream has changed. Homes that once represented attainable stability for middle-class families have transformed into financial fortresses accessible only to the wealthy. What's particularly striking is how this conversation connects economic realities to broader questions about national identity and values—who are we becoming when basic stability requires extraordinary resources?

Public land management, tariffs, and the possibilities of re-industrialization round out a discussion that defies easy political categorization. There's nuanced consideration of government funding models, environmental concerns, and what a sustainable American future might require. Throughout, the hosts maintain a refreshingly honest perspective that acknowledges complexity without succumbing to cynicism.

For listeners concerned about the direction of American society, this episode offers both sobering analysis and cautious hope. The challenges are substantial, but so is the human capacity for resilience and renewal—much like the survivors in King's fictional pandemic. Join us for a conversation that might change how you view our current moment and the choices that lie ahead.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Make it Pat Show.
I'm Mick.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm Pat.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Yeah, pat's turning on our air conditioning in the
studio here.
It's a hot one, it is.
It's toasty.
It's probably the hottest it'sbeen all summer today.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah.
So if the sound quality, if allof a sudden it's like man that
got bad, if we go long, I mightbe occasionally running that AC
in the background.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, also, I just don't care if there's background
sound like like I just don'tcare if, like, there's
background sound like I don'tcare.
You know, people have heard ourdog, my dog in the back and
stuff right our dog.
We're married pat and Iactually got a dog together.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
We're married gay couple um can you be a married
same-sex couple and not be gay?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
yes, are you kidding me?
You asked that question intoday's day and age, I know
there's so many options I couldbe a transgender heterosexual
there's so many ways to thatstill identifies as male there's
so many ways to skin the pickle.
We could be whatever we want,honestly and I'm not even saying
that to like be instigating orinsulting I'm just saying, like

(01:00):
the paperwork is there, right,um, anywho, uh, it's been.
I think it's been not that hotof a summer.
I think it's been a wet summer.
I think it's been more humidand wet out here in the in the
wild.
Uh, like what would we say?
I guess we're technically stillthe west, east of the west,

(01:21):
yeah, but yeah, here in coloradoit's been rain every afternoon,
I feel like, but not nearly ashot as last.
I felt like last summer was waymore days over 100.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, like cooking hot are we in the dog days.
Yet, though, is it gonna.
Oh, you know, it's interesting,you say dog days.
This is a tangent I wasn'texpecting to talk about this.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm listening to a really good book right now
called the stand by.
Stephen King and it's just likeStephen King's magnum opus.
It's like 49 hours long and init there's this like 16, 17 year
old kid who just knows a crapload about everything.
But anyways, the dog days wasway more known back in the day
of what it meant, but do youknow what it means?
I don was way more known backin the day of what it meant, but

(02:06):
do you know what it means?
I don't.
You've never.
How many when have you heard itused for?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
what time frame.
I've heard it in song old songs.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
There's an old song like from like florence, the
machine's not old, okay, no,it's, that's not, that's like a
10 year old song, that's.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's like I've heard it in an older song too, okay,
and then I just heard it, like Idon't know, used colloquially.
What would you guess?

Speaker 1 (02:27):
that it means, and it's really like I'm not trying
to trap you, but I thinkeveryone has a perspective of
what it means, based off of,like you know, florence and the.
Machine's lyrics of the dogdays are over and it's about
like some Girl running out,running away from her problems
or whatever.
Leaving the bad guy.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, I have no idea why.
I just always pictured a dogjust sweating.
Just hot Dogs don't sweat, youknow.
Wishing it could, wishing itcould sweat, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
No, so you just so.
If you were to put a definitionto what dog days are, you would
say it's the days when it's sohot.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
A dog just sweating that's that would be, because
otherwise I've never thoughtabout it.
I just I know what it is.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, I know when it's, I think, a lot of people
don't know what it is.
A lot of people think it alsomeans like the bad days.
The bad times, like when you'redown on your luck or you're in
a rut, but the dog days.
But the dog days were referredto like the ending of July into
end of September, where it wasmost common every year around

(03:34):
that time for rabid dogs to bean issue and it was like
clockwork every year, the dogsthat were stray off of farms or
towns or whatever.
Uh, that's when you would seethe more like increased rabid
dogs come, kind of coming aroundand stuff as like it started
like cooling from the peak heat,but the p, the heat, would also

(03:55):
drive them deranged.
So it's like you know you reachthat peak heat of summer and
then you're going into fall andit's that that like climax and
then descent that has the rabiddogs show up.
And that's what dog days means.
The dog days was that that timeperiod of rabid dogs, which we
kind of just don't have thatanymore, because we just have a

(04:16):
rabies vaccine that we can justgive out to most dogs and
there's not nearly as many likerural countryside packs of dogs
roaming around so, anyways, Ilearned that from the stand
which, by the way, pat do I needto read it, you need to read it
.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I need a break from my french literature it's uh,
it's stephen king.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And stephen king I thought, from like the few
things I've read of his likeshort stories and a couple books
I've always thought he's prettydecent, he's pretty good.
But dude, this is a great bookLike this is very well written
and it's it's gosh.
I would say.
It was 10 hours into the bookbefore the antagonist got

(05:00):
introduced and everythingleading up to that was like just
amazing character and scenariodevelopment.
But let me let me pitch it toyou.
Do you know the stand?
Have you heard of it?
I haven't I haven't a lot ofpeople are familiar with it
because it was a mini series inthe 90s on tv.
And then they did another likereboot of it that flopped really

(05:22):
hard.
It was made for cabletelevision sorry, not cable.
It was made for like abc, likea modern audience on abc or
whatever or cbs, and uh, theyjust toned it down so much that
like it was boring as heck.
Yeah, well, you realize, anapocalypse story about the devil
incarnate versus a uh, not messscience, not a messiah, but the

(05:47):
almost like the john thebaptist.
It's like john the baptistversus like satan, almost, and
it's like grand abstraction andyou realize, without violence
and gore and you know all thatstuff that would not make it on
like normal day television, justvery boring, yeah, because it's
just a lot of dialogue.

(06:07):
But anyways, the book is reallygood.
It takes place.
The one I'm reading is the uncutversion of the book which he
republished in the 90s becausehe originally published it in
the 70s but they just didn'thave actual book binding that
could bind a book as big as thatand sell it for profit like

(06:28):
mass produced.
So you got to cut out 400 pagesso that way we can afford to
sell it at $14.99, and it onlycosts like $3 to make.
And so King cut it out and thenhe added those 400 pages mostly
back in for the uncut version,when he had big money and he
could force a publisher to justpublish it because he's stephen

(06:50):
king and it's gonna sell yeah so, anyways, it takes place in the
90s, this version.
If you read the earlier versionor listen to it, it takes place
in the 70s, but a virus escapes.
It's a flu virus that kills99.7 percent of the human
population.
Wow, and it does it.
That almost happened to us.
Not really, though.

(07:12):
No, you mean 99.7 percent of thepopulation was fine, that's
what you mean, oh yeah, um, no,but um, this, uh, the virus goes
and spreads and all that andthat's probably one of the most
like, inherently fascinatingparts of the book Well-written
parts is like there's a pointwhere you just are going from
person that gets introduced name, background, who they are and

(07:34):
you're like, oh, this might beanother main character.
And then you realize you'relistening to a chapter where
it's just the virus spreadingfrom them to the next person
introduced, to the next personintroduced, spreading from them
to the next person introduced tothe next person introduced, and
he realized all his people aredead and all the kids in the car
with them on their family roadtrip are dead and all the people
they encountered at thebusiness conference are going to
die.
And, um, anyways, this fluvirus incubates and kills pretty

(07:55):
quick, leaving 0.3 percent ofthe world left alive.
And, uh, the survivors afterthat start having these dreams
and they're dreaming aboutMother Abigail.
Mother Abigail on the farm andshe's the oldest woman living in
America.
And she's this sweet old blackwoman who can pick a guitar.

(08:19):
She's certified from her birthcertificate 125 years old, and
Reagan sent her a lettercertifying she was the oldest
living American at one point.
And for some reason God hasgiven her the ability to see
some of these people in herdreams.
And then God gives everybodydreams of her and she says you

(08:43):
come, find me now out here innebraska at hemmingford home.
And so everyone's receivingthis dream.
But then everyone's alsoreceiving the dream from the
dark man.
The dark man in their dream isa man with no face.
He smiles wide.
Sometimes he comes as like amanifestation of, like a shadow
in cornfield, or like a giantred uh, they say eye like weasel

(09:08):
eyes, like just a jet black,reflective red eye and the light
.
And he also is calling to peopleto come to him um, and he's
calling for them to come to himin nevada, into into las vegas
and eventually it gets to like aboulder colorado, where they're
.
They got like the free zone inboulder colorado with mother

(09:30):
abigail and the, the maincharacters of the book, and then
there's uh, the antagonist, inlas vegas building his forces
and it's like you realize itgoes from like post-apocalypse
flu epidemic how are we going tosurvive and rebuild?
To like, oh my gosh, like Iguess it is a lot easier for
Christ to come the second timeand everyone, everyone on earth

(09:51):
to see him.
If you know, there's not thatmany people left on earth.
And I'm not saying like I don'tknow how it ends right, I don't
know if Christ, I don't thinkthere is a messianic birth.
I think it's alluded to thatthere could be someone who's
carrying the messiah um, butit's very clear like randall
flag is painted to be the, theincarnation of lucifer, or at

(10:15):
least the version of anantichrist on earth.
Um, and there's a lot ofspiritual warfare.
That's very like well writtenin it.
Like stephen king doesn't justpoop on christianity, like all
the characters are very wellwritten and mother abigail is
not like a cringy, like southerngod-fearing woman like it's
very authentic and there's a lotof characters who are just like

(10:38):
even you know, just as it wouldsay in this in the bible like
they see visions, they seethings manifest in front of them
and miracles, and they're likeI don't believe.
And mother Abigail always saysto them I was like, well, you
don't believe in God, but Godbelieves in you, cause like he's
shown me you and he's told meyou got purpose here and it's
like really good stuff like thatwhere you know characters go on

(10:59):
journeys, but it's reallyfascinating.
I really enjoy it.
It it's really fascinating, Ireally enjoy it.
I'm over halfway through and,uh, the best part of the book is
just like the, the characterbuilding, slice of life,
conversations and dialogue andlike how people are coping with
like, okay, the beginning of thesummer, in june the world ended

(11:19):
, it's now entering intoseptember and, uh, we're all
coming to terms with there islegit going to be a showdown
between good versus evil.
It follows a bunch of people asthey cross the country.
It's pretty good.
It's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Any thoughts on that, do you?

Speaker 1 (11:37):
feel like that sounds dumb.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
No, I'm going to read it, I'm going to listen to it.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's a great use of your credit on Audible.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
It looks like they tried to do it in 2020, a
miniseries on it, yeah it sucked.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I bet it was bad.
It was also something that theywere like let's roll out in
2020 during the flu epidemic,the covid epidemic, and it turns
out like, even with like peopletuning in to watch it because
they're like, oh gosh, covid,like and this is, like you know,
sensational material duringcovid, everyone was so

(12:16):
disappointed.
Everyone's like dude.
This sucks.
It's so boring and the originalminiseries holds up really well
.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
But they're making a movie.
It was announced.
Really, I didn't know.
It was announced Like two daysago oh wow, that's timely.
Yeah, or maybe two weeks ago,whatever, it just happened.
So we'll see what they do.
A lot of people are like youhave to make it into three
movies if you want it to be good.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I feel like it's way too big for one movie.
It's not Lord of the Rings bigacross those three books, but it
is way bigger than I think athree-hour movie could do
justice.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
I think that'll be good.
I'm going to listen to it.
I'm going to listen to it, seehow it goes, and I'm going to
watch the movie be disappointed,as we do when we watch movies
of books we like.
But maybe I won't bedisappointed because I know what
I'm getting into and I coulduse a break from my—I'm just
about to wrap up Les Mis.
I've been on the grind of theFrench literature and I need to—

(13:15):
you have been for like months.
I need a break, it's all—Idon't even know any characters
names anymore.
It's just yeah, it's all.
Just Coruscant, Monsu,Coruscant.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Oui, monsu Coruscant.
My wife has been Listening to abunch of the.
What is it Billy Jeans Gonna bemad that I can't remember?
It's the detective that, thefrench detective, who solves,
like you know, the death on thenile and the murder on the
orient express.

(13:50):
Yeah, the pink panther.
No, not the pink panther okay,never mind um.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Who is that um?

Speaker 1 (13:59):
it's a french guy, it's so french.
His name is obtusely French andhard to pronounce.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh, I don't know.
I guess if you say it I mightknow it, but I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Agatha Christie's the author, which her name doesn't
sound that French.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
The hermit.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Hercule Poirot.
Huh yeah, detective HerculePoirotot didn't know about that
one, but but uh, this is a coolthing.
My wife got like not agathachrissy's entire entire uh
encyclopedia of work for onecredit, but a bunch of it oh wow
.
So she's just got like eight ornine of her crime books to

(14:43):
listen to.
I did the same thing forDostoevsky, fyodor Dostoevsky,
and I just got all of his booksin one Audible credit and it
opens with the banger, opens upwith the Brothers Kasmanov Wow,
which do you know what that oneis?

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Have you heard of it?
I don't know about it.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
It seems like the Russian version almost of East
of Eden, Like brothers allcoming together in the death of
their father and the anger ofinheritance and the suspicion of
murder.
It's very family drama based.
It seems like it's tragicthough, because the book opens

(15:28):
up with like a preface from thenarrator and the hero main
character of the book, uh, wasnamed after uh dostoevsky's son,
who had died of like the flu orsomething at like 13.
And so it was kind of like abook commemorating his son's uh

(15:48):
very optimistic and heroic youngman behavior.
But anyways, I'm, if you guyswant like good use of your
credits, go out and like grabthose big things where they're
like 230 hours long for a single15 credit.
You'll be good and cooking fora while yep, those are the nice

(16:09):
ones.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
You get all those go.
It gives you a.
It's kind of I like to readthrough like the same author's
stuff a few times.
There's a little bit aboutwhat's going on.
Yeah, but I did read crime andpunishment in high school.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
I do not remember it I heard that was a good one too,
because it's like isn't it likesomething someone framed for
murder or something in it andit's like he's on trial and it's
the subject of like a isn't?
Isn't that book all about?
Like it's better for one man tobe sentenced and executed,
better for one innocent man tobe sentenced and executed than a

(16:43):
thousand guilty men to be letoff.
I can't remember.
I remember it was like theinverse perspective of like the
american judicial system and,honestly, like I really I don't
remember.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, I mean, I read it, but maybe I didn't, maybe I
was assigned it, I remember.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
I was reading Milkweed when a friend was
reading Crime and Punishment andI saw Milkweed and how thick it
was, which was like I don'tknow, it's like a 230-page book,
I think.
And then I saw Crime andPunishment.
I'm like why would you everpick that as your book?
I'm out, you dummy yeah dummy.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah the um, so yeah, but I'm, I think, yeah, after
this I'm gonna do uh the uh,russian, the russian books.
Next, maybe some nichi doskiesi.
Let's see, I got started with av.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Oh dostovesky, you're talking about that?
No, there there's another guy.
Vladimir.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Victor, I think Tolstoy is Tolstoy Russian.
No, he's not Eastern European.
Yeah, but you know, I'm justtrying to educate myself.
I think some of the books likeCrime and Punishment and stuff
that in high school I wastotally uninterested in, yeah,
and rightly so.
Rightly so.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
Because I don't think I could comprehend those, and
I'll say, like there's a fewthings I've read now that I
comprehend and appreciate waymore than I did in high school,
when I was like forced to likeread them at home and I'm like
dude, please like.
The last thing I want to sayhere is read this book that
someone's telling me I have toread.
I have no interest in like when.

(18:23):
When you come to a book and youhave an already inherent
interest in it, it's far moreengaging and investing than like
it being an assignment.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, definitely so I do.
I need a break break from theFrench stuff.
So I guess I'll just listen toa long, epic tale of darkness of
humanity through the eyes ofStephen King.
But also sounds like there's alot of you know, light in there.
Gotta get your fight on.
So we'll see at the.

(18:54):
Uh, I was trying to find whenthe movie's coming out.
I don't think they know yet.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, I don't think so either.
I was looking it up.
They will, we'll see.
But I will say for anyone whowas listening and cares, the
stand does has have depictionsof like some pretty I mean
there's graphic depictions ofpeople dying from illness,
people being murdered.
Uh, there is like some sexuallanguage or description that

(19:22):
comes out of like left field.
Sometimes you're like, oh, Iguess I mean this just could be
this person's thoughts, kind ofweird.
I don't think I needed to knowthat was their thoughts or how
they're viewing someone else.
And then there is a couple likesex scenes that are like easily
skippable if you just want tofast forward it and are
interested.
I just always fast throughbecause I feel weird listening

(19:43):
to that stuff when I'm likewalking my dog, yeah just like I
always, for some reason and Idon't think this is a bad thing
for some reason, whenever I,whatever I um like hear a sex
scene being narrated in a book,I just think of that scene from
the office where, like, theycatch meredith listening to.
Um, not meredith, uh, what'sher name?

(20:05):
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Uh, angela, no, not angela, the bigger, heavier
woman oh, oh, my gosh, I'mforgetting, uh, what's her name?

Speaker 1 (20:17):
what's her?
Name uh, she's married to bobvance yeah, I got bob vance
refrigeration.
Yeah um it's an old lady name,anyways.
Uh, she's listening to it andthey catch her because she's
making weird sounds of faces andstarting to sweat and they're
like what are you doing, ed?
uh, they phyllis phyllis, yeah,and then andy confiscates it

(20:40):
from her and he's listening toit later in his office.
He's going like because he'sthe boss at this point and his
eyes are closed, and he's like,oh, and then dwight dumps water
out of him like get it out, getit over, and stuff.
So funny.
And now I just always think ofthat scene and I just I'm like I
don't want to be andy gettingcaught listening to this weird

(21:03):
stuff by anybody.
Yeah, so I just skipped throughit.
Um, there's also, I'm prettysure, a single rape scene that
I've fast forwarded past.
It was just to the point whereI was like I'm pretty sure this
person is about to get raped andI just skipped through it and
it was done in like two skips orwhatever.
So, anyways, all I said, it'snot like super visceral, graphic

(21:24):
or like excessive, but it islike, hey, this happens in a
world where there's no longerlaw and order, like there's
sometimes bad people who arealso immune to the virus and
survive, and you're gonna haveto deal with those bad people
yep, man.
Well, speaking of of that stuff,I mean, there's a lot of people
mad right now no, yeah,speaking of, uh, speaking of

(21:46):
people mad about a sexualpredator getting off scot-free,
kind of diddy.
Well did he did get up, oh didhe but yeah, did he?
Yeah, that is frustrating, thatdid he?
Got off scot-free, basicallycharged on one thing.
That one, to me, though, is alittle bit more clear of why he

(22:09):
got cut off because they triedto get him with the racketeering
thing that they go after allthe mobsters with.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, the.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Not FOIA, it's another acronym RICO.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
RICO.
Racketeering somethingsomething and it's like.
It's kind of like when somepolitical party brings a bill
and they just want to stack itall in there, yeah, hey, this
can shut down if you put it onthere, but some of the stuff he
did, he is getting sentenced inOctober.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, but it's weak man.
He only got found convicted onlike some weak charges of like.
What was it?

Speaker 2 (22:47):
It was like transporting a prostitute.
Whatever he could get up tolike probably 25 years, though I
thought.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Oh really, maximum sentencing.
I thought it went down to liketime served basically.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Well, I think that's max, that's the thing too.
Served basically.
Well, I think that's max,that's the thing too like.
Yeah, you know you can get.
You can get 10 years in prisonfor like and carrying around an
unauthorized weapon, or tenthousand dollars up to yeah,
yeah, you're probably not goinglike so you're probably not
gonna or whatever.
But um, so, but no, not him.
The uh, the big guy, the bigdead guy, old Epstein is living

(23:22):
on through.
You know the continued lack ofinformation coming out that's
been promised to the people.
Stuff that people was part ofwhat they ran on politically to
be able to, you know, getelected was part of what they

(23:42):
ran on politically to be able to, you know, get elected.
And so this last week, thestuff that Trump said and that
other people in his cabinet andyou know, some of the FBI
director, other people sayingthat this list doesn't exist,
maybe never did.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Which is crazy.
I mean, it's a totalgaslighting man.
You can't say it doesn't existafter at least dozens of people,
maybe hundreds I've seen it andsaid, like I've seen the list
trump's on it, I've seen thelist, biden's on it, I've seen
the list.
Here are the people who werelisted on it and referenced in
it, and it's just like, okay,like, and now it's like there is

(24:17):
no list.
Oh, by the way, there's notjust no list.
Uh, there's no one else in thevideo footage we've looked at.
It's just, it's just epsteinand these kiddos, no one else,
just them.
I'm just like, dude, this is atravesty.
I'm actually this is.
This could make me not vote foranyone else in this.
Admin ever again like itlegitimately could like if it's

(24:39):
not right and not corrected heresoon, I could really see myself
not voting for vance ever again.
I could see myself not votingfor certainly any of these dudes
who are in director roles ordeputy director roles for the
fbi, if they ever decided to gopolitical.
Um, it's just pretty nasty andit feels it especially when

(24:59):
trump dismissed it as likeyou're still talking about that
guy.
I was just like are you kiddingme, dude?
We're talking about the guy whoruined the lives and probably
he's easily ruined the lives ofthousands of children by
trafficking them.
He's likely murdered or isresponsible for the murder of
probably thousands of people.
You know, either through likeblackmail or through like just

(25:24):
covering up getting rid ofpeople who would have been a
problem.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
And then his right hand, Maxwell, going to prison
for she's what?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
25 years or 20 years for trafficking children?

Speaker 2 (25:34):
To nobody.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, to nobody.
She trafficked the kids, but itwas from Epstein back to
Epstein.
It was never to anyone else.
And I'm just like that makes nosense at all and we all know it
makes no sense.
And they're like just lookingat us like we should just forget
about it, like we're idiots,and while I might be an idiot,
not that dumb, you know yes, as,as Stu Redman says in the stand

(25:59):
, country don't mean dumb.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Exactly, exactly, and so I think that I mean you know
lots of conjecture on whywhat's going on.
I think a big part of it isthat, yeah, so many people and
it's what everybody said so manypeople on both sides of the
aisle are involved to the pointwhere they're just not going to

(26:23):
out themselves and out theirpeople.
The other piece being, I dobelieve it has a lot to do with
our intelligence arm and othercountries' intelligence arms.
Other countries, multiple othercountries.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Other countries.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
And there's actually a really good podcast by Daryl
Cooper, the Martyr Made podcast.
He does an Epstein series andhe kind of he breaks down all
these it's hours and hours longwhere he really gets into lots
of details, kind of like Epsteinstuff, but alongside that like
other trafficking rings andthings like that over time and

(27:01):
like big players over historywho've been involved in it, and
really gets into epstein'shistory also as well as lane
maxwell's um history and herdad's history, um where he came
from and um there's, you know,just the fact that epstein
wasn't an anybody, he was anobody.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
There's no evidence for where any of his money came
from.
He's literally nobody.
His stock exchange stuff islike one day he had money to
really put in to some hedgefunds, but he didn't make that
initial money from those funds.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
His money came out of thin air like and his money
came out of thin air and theschool he got his first job at,
where he he wasn't even licensedlike teacher ever got.
He got a job there and theheadmaster was oh, I forget his
last name is comer.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Which which guy um andrew comer or the other one,
the, the dude who is running tobe mayor of new york city, or
the or was running no maybe Ihave the last name wrong, but
it's an old guy, he's old, he'sdead and gone.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
But he was the headmaster of the school and he
had written a novel like a spacesci-fi novel, basically, that
had a lot of underage sexUnderage is the wrong word.
It had pedophilia.
It had stuff in there and ithad a lot of pet, it had

(28:30):
pedophilia, had stuff in thereand it had, um you know, a lot
of gross stuff and he was theone who first master was donald
bar bar.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yep, so look up, his son wasn't, isn't donald bar
also giz?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
lane's dad.
No, his name.
He changed his name.
He was originally from europeand he um during the zionist
movement came over relations.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, space primitive man?

Speaker 2 (28:45):
yeah, was the book written by a guy who's in charge
of a school, philip pedophilia?
Uh, maxwell's dad.
He came from, uh, easterneurope, or did he come from
britain?
He's, uh, jewish.
He came over through zion withthe zionist movement and changed
his name and was most likelylinked to Mossad and some other
things.
And then, but for the, hisheadmaster guy, for bar, he

(29:10):
really is kind of where you see,wall Epstein was under him for
a while and then he leaves andthen all of a sudden Epstein's
careers kind of explodes.
And then who's bar son?
Bar son was a big dog inpolitics.
He was like the director of.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
William Barr.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
William Barr.
Yeah, and he was the one whoStephen Barr as well.
Oh, what was his job?

Speaker 1 (29:36):
He served as 77th US Attorney General for George Bush
and 85th US Attorney Generalfor Donald Trump.
Yeah, he was Attorney Generaland he'd get up there and lie
about stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
So, anyways, these guys, now high society elites,
are all tied together anyways.
Whether they're good or badpeople, whatever it is, they
know each other, their kids goto school together, whatever.
But the Martyr Made podcastreally draws some.
It just takes a really goodhistory lesson and pulls you

(30:07):
through kind of everything thathappened, but the yeah, I think
a lot of people are let down, alot of people are upset.
It's like it was something thatwas kind of promised and ran on,
that we would have, you knowsome, something that would be
released.
Much less like the whole thingwould be released.

(30:27):
And so I think it has to dowith the fact that it's it's
non-party related, it's eliterelated and it is.
I think it does have to do withour intelligence agencies.
I mean, like, and that's how,that's how intelligence agencies
run.
Like you know, you deal withpeople in big power, you deal

(30:47):
with gross stuff, you deal withblackmail, lie all the time,
lying and deceit and thesethings, and so to put pressure
on people and to put pressure on, you know, people who run big
companies or have big influence,and so that's just what it is.
You know people who run bigcompanies or have big influence,
and so that's just what it is,you know yeah, no, I agree, and
it's.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
It's super sad and disheartening because I don't
think it leaves any room forfaith in the government to look
after you like.
This pretty much just says likeoh, if the government's not
going to seek justice forchildren who were trafficked and
raped by you know like aninsane magnitude.
I mean, we're talking thousandsof people who cross paths with

(31:29):
epstein and like worked on hisisland and you know, his.
He knew everybody.
It seems like, um, and ifthey're not going to seek
justice for those people whowere victims of that, you know
the most heinous thing on earth,uh, I don't think anyone has
faith in them, doing anythingright by them and getting
justice for anything else.
You know what I mean, um,because, like you, you you're

(31:51):
supposed to think like and havethe faith in the judicial part
of your government.
Um, you're supposed to have thefaith in them that it doesn't
matter how expensive andinconvenient and how little
there is to be gained in doingthe right thing.
The judicial arm of thegovernment is supposed to judge

(32:12):
and prosecute and pursue thosewho have broken the law and to
see that it doesn't do it.
If there's nothing to be gainedwhich the truth is, is like,
what is there to be gained otherother than like?
If we talk about thisobjectively, like what is there
to be gained other than people'sapproval?
Well, you lose, like there isnothing, like.

(32:32):
You get the approval and trustof the people, but you lose all
of those people and assets thatnow you have dirt on and have
information of blackmail on thatnow you can use epstein's black
book of you know blackmailagainst them, right like it's.
Like epstein kept all thesepeople doing whatever he wanted

(32:52):
and giving him money and youknow, he catered and probably
blackmailed all these people fordecades.
And now, all of a sudden, it'sin our hands.
We can use it too, because whywould we prosecute I don't know
schmil, schmil gates, why wouldwe prosecute him when we could

(33:13):
just put our thumb on him andown him?
You know what I mean?
Um, that's, that's the way Isee it and I get like if anyone
feels like this is conspiracystuff, great, who cares?
Like I don't, like you can takeit to the bank At this point.
It just seems like it doesn'tseem conspiratorial at all to me
.
It just seems like them's thestakes there bud, them's how the

(33:37):
dice roll out, and it does feellike I was let on pretty hard,
and I think that's what a lot ofpeople feel like.
A lot of people feel like, damn, we really thought we get this
fresh blood in there, dudes whoaren't career politicians, that
they would do the right thingand under like know what to do,
and then now cash patel gets inthere, rolls over immediately

(34:00):
like a dog for a treat or Idon't know, maybe not a dog for
a treat.
Maybe he is sitting doe-eyed,terrified, like a deer in the
headlights, praying that theydon't hit him and praying that
he's going to be spared.
He really honestly like and Iknow we're talking offline about
this, but like dan bogeen, howdo?

Speaker 2 (34:18):
you say it on gino.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Bongino, dan Bongino and Cash Patel.
Both were such big talkers,enthusiastic, passionate about,
you know, getting into theEpstein files and all the
information they've heard on itand their sources, before they
got into the FBI and now asdirector and deputy director.
They don't look like they'veexhaled in weeks, like they look

(34:43):
to me like they're stillholding their breath.
Their eyes are bloodshot.
Dude dan looks like he is onthe verge of crying or exploding
and screaming and yelling umand for him to do stew like uh.
I was never a big follower ofhim but like I've seen the you
know episodes of his podcastwhere he was talking about like
or clips of it where he'stalking about how, like Epstein

(35:03):
did not kill himself.
There's no way.
And like here's the reason why.
Yada, yada, yada, and we haveit, like from Epstein's friend
who told, like Epstein said hey,man, just know, I'm not
suicidal, I don't plan to killmyself.
Like I'll win this in court,and I think it was Epstein's
brother who said that actually.
And then all of a sudden he'sin there and he's holding his

(35:23):
breath, holding a turd in tryingnot to poop his pants, and he's
at the camera.
He's like he committed suicide.
He committed suicide.
No one killed him, he killedhimself.
And it's just like he's not.
I'm like waiting, I'm watching.
I'm like when's he going toexhale?
He'll be like oh okay, I saidit.
Now will you let my family go,now will you stop blackmailing

(35:43):
me?
I don't know.
Actually, I say I don't know.
I do know.
I know that these dudes gotfreaking, picked over, because
that's the total 180 of theirbody language and everything
right.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they're not.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
That would show that they're not just like fake
actors not saying they're notlying, but just like if it was.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
If it was, you think they're trying to blink at us,
no meaning, like some guy, helpme yeah you know I can't tell
you exactly where it's like, butthere's some guys charismatic
and pull the wool over your eyes, whatever when everything he
does versus somebody who, like,is charismatic and speaking this
certain way and then is notthat way when they're not
anymore like in this other, notafter.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
They got shown just the amount of lizards that live
among us.
They honestly do look like itwas crazy.
I just thought it was funnyoutside of this whole scenario
or situation.
But I did see like a before andafter of like kash patel before
he got sworn in to be directorof the fbi and like it was like

(36:49):
a month later.
And bro, that guy looks like heaged 20 years, maybe not 20.
He looks like he aged probablyfive years and put on 10, 15
pounds of just stress.
You know what I mean.
I'm sure it's a lot of smokingand eating and sitting, you know
what I mean.
Not having a lot of time to goand exercise and get some fresh

(37:11):
air.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you see that with all
guys, everybody goes intopolitics, they all get old fast.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, I remember Obama was the biggest one,
starkest change you could see.
See him just age and likebefore he was president and then
after his first term and he'slike he literally looked like 15
, 20 years older.
Um, anyways, all that's prettyfrustrating.
Also, you know the whole shitwith the big beautiful bill and

(37:40):
the only thing that I actuallycared about that was in that
bill.
Um, I mean, the tax breaks arenice.
Still, like, maintaining thosetax breaks from his first admin
are nice because otherwise wewere about to like, as soon as
those expired, we're about toget taxed out of the wazoo,
especially for small business,and a lot of people just don't
care because a lot of peopledon't understand tax law and

(38:00):
policy and how, like you know,you can have, uh, tax exemptions
and policies and tax ratesexpire after a certain amount of
time.
Like they're not laws.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Um.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
And so it was nice that that was in the bill.
But the thing I cared about themost, of course, was the stuff
that would gut the NFA, which isknown the National Firearms Act
, and it would essentially allowus to buy suppressors and have
shorter ARs or shotguns thanwhat is currently the legal

(38:34):
limit before you have to filepaperwork and get it added into
a registry and pay a stamp forit.
Um and anyways, all that said,like I was looking forward to
that, because, guess what?
Every other freaking firstworld country that you know you
can own a firearm in mandates.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
You use a suppressor when you hunt yeah, all the ones
that make it like incredible.
It's incredibly difficult toget us get a rifle.
To get a little blinker rifleyou have to have a suppressor
yeah, but you could get asuppressor in the hardware store
.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yep, um, and so, anyways.
All that said, I was lookingforward to that because the nfa
is a very outdated bill.
Um, or outdated like piece oflegislature is from 1934 yeah,
and it came around because theywanted to make it a crime to
possess, uh, essentially,machine guns from, like you know

(39:26):
, thompson machine guns and likethe bar when it was coming out
and all that.
They wanted it like to just bean extra crime they could charge
uh the mobsters with, becausethey knew none of the mobsters
were going to file thatpaperwork.
And also, 200 back then was theequivalent of like four
thousand five hundred dollarstoday.
Yeah, um, but anyways, thatlanguage is in there.

(39:48):
Uh, it got gutted out in reviewin the house and then, uh,
rather than overruling theparliamentarian secretary I
believe is her name, well, isher title, which is an appointed
position, she's not evenelected rather than overruling
her and she was appointed duringa democratic they just let it

(40:10):
slide and be like alright, yep,she says like we can't have any
of this like language in here.
That will you know.
Like make it legal to likepurchase and not have to
register suppressors, and makeit okay to like have sbrs, which
sbrs still would be a firearmthat needs a background check.
You still go get a backgroundcheck.
Yep, you just wouldn't have topay this tax stamp to the queen,

(40:31):
you know, kiss the queen'sfinger to get your gun and let
it be a little bit shorter.
Um, you wouldn't have to do thatanymore because of you know,
this bill.
That would have passed in thelegislation, that would have
passed through it.
And now, instead of overrulingher, like, uh, senator john
thune could have done, since hewas sitting on the panel for the
house in review, or like vicepresident vance could have done,

(40:53):
since he's overseeing thesenate and the vote on the bill
they just were like, yeah, Iguess she says it's not there
and we're we're not going to putit back in.
So it was super, superfrustrating.
Uh made me very upset, uh,because it felt like they just
didn't put any effort intofighting it.
The good news, however, though,is the big passed, and it
passed with language that takesthat $200 tax stamp, gets rid of

(41:17):
it, goes to zero, and it alsopassed with our tax exemption
rates and all that stuff.
And the most dangerous part ofthe bill I thought was the part
that was put in to sell uhbureau of land management and
forestry land that got pulledout.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
That got pulled out.
That was the, that was the bigone, that everybody was yeah,
that was bipartisan.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Everyone was like you don't get, don't, don't sell to
the highest bidder yeah and itwasn't even gonna sell that much
land.
I think we talked about this onthe last episode, maybe a
little bit, but it was.
It was gonna sell somewhere inthe neighborhood of like one to
two percent of the forestservices land.
No sorry, it wasn't even thatmuch, it was like 0.2 percent

(42:01):
there's still like millions ofacres yeah, millions of acres,
but when we're talking about 0.2, it's not like someone's gonna
be able to privately buy estes.
It was like there was landavailable along highways, there
was land available that'salready been checkerboarded from
other hunting like some other,like plots and stuff, that that
land's also not even likegetting used by anyone publicly

(42:23):
and so stuff like that.
That was like, yeah, sure, sellit, fund the forestry service.
I wasn't super anti that.
I was anti some of the otherareas I saw that were for sale,
that are like reservations oryou know national like grassland
stuff and that stuff.
I'm like, ok, that's notcheckerboarded.
Yet If you put that up for saleas well and someone just buys

(42:45):
their cut, then we start gettingit checkerboarded and that's
dangerous.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yep, yep, and that's the hard thing about.
Even like the kind of morenon-desirable spots they would
be selling, it wouldn't be aplace like yellowstone yeah it's
still the hard thing about.
It's just like you never get itback, so you just have to keep
like a hard line drawn you donever get it back um and so and

(43:09):
with the, the checkerboardingstuff is interesting they'll
have, have you heard of.
You know what corner crossingis?

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I, as far as I understand it, you're crossing
along the edge or corners of afarmer's land to get into the,
you know, public land forhunting and a lot of farmers
don't like that because you aregoing through their fence or you
know around at the edge oftheir property and they don't

(43:36):
want you to do that.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
It would be literal.
When you find these plots ofland, it's actually crazy.
It actually is like perfectcheckerboard.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah and so Like, because it's fence post to fence
post.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yep, and it was when it had.
Most of it came from railroad,basically to fund the railroad.
They checkerboarded it up andjust sold off plots.
And then what happens with thatis?

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Well, you think about any board game.
It makes sense, like in Go,where you've got to flip your
enemies.
You flip your opponent's tokens.
It's like I don't need to go ina straight line, I can just
corner you on all sides and thenI don't even need to buy the
one in the center.
I essentially own the one inthe center because I've cut off
all access to it yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
And so farmers don't like it, but also guys who own
that stuff, who like to hunt onit don't like when guys are
getting on the public land andwhat it is is basically right at
that corner where those fourcorners meet.
You can technically go.
It's legal, it's, this is likethere's it's law, it's in, it
defends it, it's been it.
Well, it's actually it'sactually a fairly recent, over

(44:44):
the past two years, uh likewhere it's gone to court, uh
where, basically, if you go tothat corner and then step over
the fence caddy corner so youyour leg swings over the fence,
over two fences, and then dropsback down on the back on public
land and then you get on there,it's basically you came into
their airspace and you're sothat's illegally trespassed, um,

(45:06):
by swinging your leg overthat's pretty crazy.
So, um, there were these guyswho actually built a special
ladder that, like they'd bringwith them oh, I saw that to just
like set over the fence andthey could just go over it and
they'd gotten to.
They'd been getting into it,this landowner, for a while and
then it it went to court and itwent up to I think went up real

(45:29):
high, I don't know, maybeSupreme court, but where the I
don't know what it ended upfinally getting ruled on it if
it was legal or not.
But basically it just became abig.
It's been becoming a bigger,bigger thing and it is legal in
Colorado and then I think it'slegal in other states as well

(45:51):
now.
So it's starting to beprotected.
And so what some people aredoing with it is they are
proposing land trades whereyou'd go okay, how about you
trade the left side of yourcheckerboard for the right side,
so we can have this chunk, justbe all public and you can have
all this other.
So there's things like thatwhere they're trying to make

(46:12):
that work better.
But in general, just any timewe sell off any public public
land.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
it's not going public again, it's private, which you
know.
That's kind of also like Ican't be a hundred percent
against that because I do thinkthat if the federal government
we want to fund itself andessentially get rid of all
taxation because I really dowant to get to a day where I
don't pay anything in taxes Iwant all taxation to go away and
the government needs to be ableto fund itself and support

(46:41):
itself with what it does and theservices it offers.
I do think if it wants to sellthe land it owns and someone can
afford to buy it, then that iscapitalism, baby.
You know what I mean.
One day, if I have the money todo that, I don't know, but if I
do have that, I'd want to beable to take advantage of that
and buy some nice plot of landwhere I get to fish and hunt and

(47:05):
shoot on um, which you know Iknow is like the argument
against like yo, texas is likethere's.
There is no public land in texas, everything is owned in texas
you want to go shoot somewhere,you're going on someone's land
and paying them.
Or you're going to a shootingrange, indoor or outdoor, um,
but there's no free place to goshoot your guns.
Same with hunting in texasanywhere you go and hunt in

(47:28):
texas, you're paying to hunt onsomeone's land, um, and I guess
I also.
I like, yeah, it's capitalism,baby.
Like I don't necessarily havean outright problem with it, but
I understand the frustrationand I understand the draw and
desire to like keep thingsreserved or not reserved,

(47:49):
preserved in a way to make sureeveryone can use it, even those
who don't have the money to buyland and stuff like that, which
I think is important.
And so it's kind of one of thosethings where you want to know
how I really feel.
I feel like I should be allowedto hunt in rocky mountain
national park.
That's how I really feel I feellike I should be allowed to
pull up there in the parking lotand go hunt in that park my

(48:10):
taxes pay for it if I get thetag, I should be able to go in
there and get myself a elk.
Yeah, you know and I'm sayingthis as someone who's never gone
on a super serious hunting tripbefore, right, I've never done
like a multiple, like a 10-daycamp out to pursue an elk tag or
something like that, right.
But I also know it'd be veryhypocritical if I just say

(48:30):
outright yeah, we should neversell those lands, because I do
think there is a time and placewhere it makes sense for the
government to sell land to payfor itself.
So I don't know, yeah, I'm opento your feedback and if that's
totally off base in your opinion.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
I think it's.
It's not off base, it's justthat the it's.
For me it comes into like thethe slippery slope stuff, where
it's basically just like onceit's you know.
Or the the salami sliceapproach, where it's just like
and once you let that guard downand let it continue like then

(49:06):
it does get.
When does it get to the pointwhere it is selling off?
all of it all you know, all ofit or certain places and things
like that, yeah, and so, and sothere's you know those, and I
think that there probably is.
Maybe there's a time and placefor it.
But I think that I guess that'swhere you would hope that your

(49:28):
representatives are actuallyrepresenting what you want for
it, like representing thepopulace you know, like, if you
know, this part of Utah decidedthey want to get rid of it, they
want to sell it, like okay, youknow, but you just have to hope
that you're represented well inwhat you want.
And I think that for me, itbasically comes down to just
that don't want to see anymoreget sliced away, yeah, and I

(49:52):
think that I don't think thatwhat it would sell for would
fund much of a darn thing Likewhat's our debt right now?

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, our debt's like what like 35 trillion.
Yeah, but it wasn't to likefund that, it was to fund the
parks.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Right, right, but it's yeah, so it's still like it
could go places, but it's justlike.
Either way, like looking at thefederal government holistically
, just being like this is notgoing to move the needle for
what we need in general to.
Would it pay for the parks fortwo years, 10 years, 100 years,
you know, or would it?
You know?
And so I think it's.

(50:32):
That's one, definitely onespace where I like for being
like right-leaning wheneverRepublicans bring it up, it's
like no, no, thank you.
But what I do want to, I wantto talk about something too was
for how our federal governmentis funded is and I didn't know

(50:52):
this until the other day that weused to be fully funded off of
tariffs, like there was, likethe federal government Before we
got to gold standard and shit.
Yeah, we funded our governmentfrom 1790 to 1860 just on
tariffs.
Tariffs were 90% of the federalrevenue.
That's pretty wild.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
It's because we were exporting a lot of stuff.
It was the new world man andthe government was tiny, as it
should be.
It was tiny, Well, and then,you know, it changed in 1860-ish
.
The government got divided inhalf.
Yeah yeah, it had to have alittle fight with itself.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Mm-hmm, there was for that too, I learned the other
day too.
Was that for the Civil War war?
I didn't know that like it waslike spain and there was like
france and france and a coupleof those were getting on board
with the south.
Oh yeah, everyone got on boardwith the south.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
No one's giving them crap for that and there was, it
was russia got on board with thenorth well, you and this is
unpopular right yeah, and Ireally don't care how people
feel, but it it was likesomething um, 3% of Americans,
uh, own slaves at the time whenthe civil war broke out and it
was like you know, I don't, Ithink in the North it was

(52:05):
something like 2% of Northaligned States had slaves.
Uh, 3% of like the SouthernConfederate aligned States had
slaves.
And then it was like it wasironic, Most of the States that
sat it out and didn't pick aside had way higher rates of
slavery ownership.
But, um, when people were askedlike why did you fight in the

(52:28):
civil war on the South?
Like, were you pro slavery?
No one who was down likeinterviewed in, who fought in
that like none of the soldiersin the confederacy owned slaves.
Like, if you were a soldier inthe confederacy, especially if
you were like drafted when theywere coming through town, like
we need men and boys, likeyou're gonna get put, you're

(52:50):
gonna wear these greys and comethrough, uh, those were not the
people who were of the class whocould afford slaves.
But they all said the ones whovolunteered even to sign up,
they said, well, we foughtbecause they they invaded.
We fought because we were beinginvaded, the.
It wasn't that we werepro-slavery, it was that we were
anti them and blue coatsinvading and taking our land in

(53:14):
our towns and telling us this isthe way it was going to be.
Um, and I found that reallyinteresting.
Like that's the most cited likeand this isn't me like making
shit up, like you can look it uplike the most statistically
referenced reason for soldiersenlisting was due to the uh like
antagonist invasion and uhthreats of the north of the
government.
Essentially, it was just abunch of boys who were like the

(53:36):
government doesn't just get tomark that, march down here and
take my shit away.
Um, and I say that, andsomeone's like someone's
immediately gonna be like takemy shit away, you're talking
about slaves.
I'm like no again, these guysdidn't own slaves.
What the government did do isthey come down and like well, we
are going to take your businessand we are going to take your
dollars and we are going to takeyour food and your crops and
whatever to fund, you know, thewar effort to secure the rest of

(53:58):
this place and lock it down andpeople are like no dude, that's
not happening.
I'd rather die than watch youtake everything away from me.
Um, so now am I happy?
The north one, absolutely, butdo I will I always like try to
clear that up when people makethat misassumption?

(54:19):
For sure, 100, without a doubt.
Uh, relating back to what wewere talking about, though, I
think that's like you know thatthat's the kind of uh, well,
actually I can't remember howthat related back.
You might have to edit this.
What were you saying that?
And now I got on the south side.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Oh, the 1860s.
Yeah, yep, tariffs, tariffs,yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
That happened, and then we needed all of a sudden a
lot more money to fund thegovernment.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
And then half of the nation was very poor because
they lost the war.
So the government needed moremoney to go and rebuild the
nation.
And it all changed, man.
It all changed.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
It did, and so I was just yeah with the tariffs.
Everybody's getting real allpuckered on tariffs lately, but
that's just because we'veunfortunately completely become
reliant on little plasticdoohickeys coming over from
China and getting on my porch in10 seconds after I push a
button um and it's.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
It's a sad thing because, like uh, you know,
today I shoot, I shoot guns alot and I saw that, uh, it was
announced, trump is doing a likewhat?
50 tariff on copper as a importinto the us from china.
I think and it's like, yeah,that does suck and it is going
to make it more expensive, butthat tariff is there to also

(55:42):
incentivize copper productionhere at home.
You know, that's like that'sthe big thing, as well as like,
yes, tariff imports to taximports, uh, but also have more
domestic production, so that waywe can revitalize independence
and self-reliance in the USindustry as a whole, which then

(56:06):
leads to more revenue and stuffinternally and less spending
externally.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, we have to start re-industrializing America
.
Yeah, we have to startre-industrializing America.
The pickle of that is what we'vegotten ourselves into with like
kind of like environmentalistsuing battles Like it's going to

(56:35):
be— was like thinking aboutwhat would it take to bring back
you know forms ofindustrialization to America,
and it like I never got very farin my thought process because
everything I come up with wouldjust get like a meat, Even if
you had like huge budgets, itjust like immediately halted by
someone saying you can't buildthat here, or this is the

(56:57):
regulation, or we want thispiece of the pie for it, and
it's just like, oh man, we mightbe in a position where we can't
do that anymore, and I thinkthat's not necessarily true.
I think it would just be very,very difficult and everything
would have to be automatedbecause no one's going to go do
that job in a factory or in awarehouse, and maybe that's not

(57:21):
true, I think there's a lot ofGen Zers or whatever you want to
call them, zoomers, whateverthat are going to end up
enthusiastically findingmeditative work in blue collar
quote unquote factory work.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Meditative work in blue collar Quote unquote
factory work.
That you know what Is going tobe paying good money Because
they're going to need laborersin the US to do it, and it's
going to, I think you know.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Who has 14 degrees and is very capable but can't
get a job to buy a house, right,the new era of basement dweller
, not like the old one, you know, like it just so.
It's like, um, I don't knowwhat that looks like, but I do
think that, um, the kind of olduh thoughts of you know, like
living within your means, youknow, and you know waste not

(58:12):
want, not, you know, or whatthese sorts of of things are we
capable of, even having that asour expectations?
Or or what we see as like athriving uh life, as a as
reaching, like you know, a goodlife.
Or is it like no man, I needthe, I need like the uh, you
know whatever, I need a yacht orI need a this or that or

(58:32):
whatever.
Or you know all the lies of theworld that we've like that we
TikTok or Instagrammed ourselvesinto what is like quote unquote
a normal life, and it's likethat's not normal, that's
extravagant.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Well, and I think you know, I think that's, though,
not like anything new.
You know what I mean.
I think that's the way it'sbeen.
I think the guys who you knowtheer simpsons, back in the 60s,
70s, who could 80s, 90s I don'tknow like the how, the howls
from malcolm in the middle yeah,who their wife could be a
supermarket manager, and theycould be.

(59:07):
Uh, what did hal do?
I can't remember what he didall of a sudden.
Uh, but homer simpson, you know, marge would stay a
stay-at-home mom and HomerSimpson worked at the power
plant and that dude made enoughmoney to have a house and pay
the bills and feed his familyand yada, yada, I think that
lifestyle.

(59:27):
Those people who were there andstill got to live through that
point of time in America wouldstill say like yeah, you know
what?
Like we didn't know we wereliving the american dream,
because we always thought theamerican dream was that like a
little bit more.
The american dream was actuallythat timeshare in aspen.
The american dream was like thetwo jet skis that were down at
the condo in florida, you knowwhatever right.

(59:50):
And now a lot of us look backand they're like holy shit, I
was living the american dreambecause I was working one job,
wife got to stay home, raise mykids.
I was never worried about whowas looking after them, were
their safety and, uh, theyweren't getting indoctrinated
into like weird shit at school,oh, and also like I had a roof
over my head, food in my bellyand it was enough money to also

(01:00:11):
save up for retirement pension,whatever.
And now I think a lot of peoplelook back on that and see like,
oh, like it's borderline,impossible to be making less
than like a household income ofsix figure plus to even feel
stable, let alone to feel likeyou got enough to feed everybody

(01:00:32):
, clothe everybody, you know.
Get out of the know, get out ofthe debt cycle, get out of the
you know renting cycle, um, andget into like serious, like
freedom, uh, or financialsecurity.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yep, and that's the it's, a it's.
It is a hard conversationbecause it is gotten to the
point where, yeah, owning islike seems like a uh, uh goal
post, always moving forward, orlike something just astronomical
or something that you, youcould get, but you're just gonna
have to, totally, you know,sign, your, you know be, house

(01:01:08):
poor, you know and uh orwhatever, all the way over to
the god, especially piecesespecially in places like
colorado dude like I thinkthere's some places in colorado
you can afford to live, butyou're still paying more than
the equivalent to like nebraska,like you can live in the plains
of colorado and you could do sofor rather affordably.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Comparatively, you're paying more money than you
would to do that in nebraska andhave better quality of living
there in a better sized town andmore convenient.
Um, dude, I saw, I see stuff inour town here that's just, oh,
my god, it's just insulting.
I'm talking like 1300 squarefoot old school houses that need
completely renovated on theinside.

(01:01:49):
You know foundation is leaningand seeking.
They flood once a year in thebasement.
750, yeah, and I'm just likethis is outrageous, dude.
Like who's paying for that?
I don't know anyone who'sbuying that stuff.
You know what I mean.
Everyone I know who's purchaseda house in the last few years
has actually made pretty decentpurchases on like cost of square

(01:02:10):
footage.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
They just wait around and wait for them to show up
and I understand, like inflationcost of you know into you know
uh, rise in market pricing.
But like when I was a kid, notall that long ago, we used to
have a phrase called milliondollar house.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
You'd be like yeah, I live in a million dollars, a
million dollar house, you knowyeah and it was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
It was like, you know , huge, you know 4 000 square
foot house, freaking, made outof huge like wood timbers.
They got a theater roomdownstairs, you know, whole up,
the whole upstairs is a masterbedroom, you know whatever.
And you know that 40 foot longkitchen island, that's.
You know, granite countertop,whatever.
You know the house with theback deck and the hot tub, you

(01:02:57):
know all that stuff.
But now it's like I don't knowwe were pushing like.
Now it's like, yeah, man, helives in a three million dollar
house, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
It's like tripled, that's crazy yeah, I uh, you
know what?
That's a good point.
I'm gonna look at and just seea couple things here I just want
to see I I'm now aware that Ididn't know that I was living in
a million dollar home.
Oh yeah, my grandparents house2700, uh, about 2800 square feet

(01:03:26):
, three bedroom, two bathroomhome, uh, down in like south
denver area is the story you'rereading.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
No, no, this is my house.
Oh, this is your house this ismy grandparents house.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Oh, okay, I think my grandfather sold it for, like, I
think he bought it and like Iknow I mean, I know he bought it
and then they did built onadditions or something it was.
At the time I thought it was alot of money it was like five
hundred thousand dollars to buythe house and the land it was on
and do the additional garageand renovations in it.
Um and uh, now it seems likethey've done some stuff like put

(01:03:56):
up some fences and stuff likethat Solar.
Uh, it's over a million dollars.
It's a $1.1 million home, whichis insane to me because I'm
like I lived in that and Ididn't think I was living in a
million dollar house.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Yeah, um we'll look at a couple other ones here just
to see.
But she kept it and rented it.
But that's funny about it too,too that looking back and
there's all these differentproperty scenes over time I'll
talk with, like my family, otherpeople, like man, we should
have kept that and rented it.
Or everybody's like, yeah, wejust we didn't know that it was
gonna triple, you know, and thewages haven't tripled, so it's

(01:04:33):
wild yeah, it's pretty, it'spretty crazy, uh, to see that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
I mean I know we've talked about it before too, but
it is just mind-boggling to me,um, the like uh, rate at which
wages have fallen behind.
Um, you know, because youalways hear it and it's like,
yeah, okay, everyone's stillpissing and moaning about they
don't make enough money, yada,yada, I don't make enough money,
I, you don't see me pissing andwhining.

(01:04:57):
And then you like, look at thestatistics.
You're just like, oh, my god,like wages have not kept up.
This is insane how far behindthey are.
You know, how are we supposedto afford anything?
Um, you know, with the waythese have inflated and it's
just, uh, it's sad, but it isthe way it is right now.
Um, and hopefully I'm a dreamer, you know what I mean, but I'm

(01:05:19):
saying hopefully tariffs helpkind of rebalance a lot of this
stuff again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Yeah, because, like here's, let's break it down
1980s we got rent, you know, 200bucks.
Now, 2025, this is kind of likeaverage across America, 2,000.
All right, now it's funny thingTVs back in the day, yeah, 3
000 versus today's tv of 600,comparatively, yep.

(01:05:45):
For the same size tv, cd player, 500, music, 100 bucks, all
right.
You know, a cell phone, twothousand dollars, you know, now
it's a thousand.
You see, computer, 2500.
I guess this is breaking downkind of the, the shift in
luxuries, um, where we go to, uh, a computer, uh, $2,500.

(01:06:05):
Now you can get the samecomputer for 500 bucks.
Microwave 500 bucks microwave,now 200 bucks.
Um, and so the oh, where's therest of this breakdown?
Where did it go?
But then, so that's kind ofspeaking to like luxuries and
things, how we've seen stuffflip from that.
That goes to back to, you know,china's, our dependency on, on

(01:06:29):
china, um, but then where wehave, you know where, home sales
price 1980 average was 600 or60, sorry, 64 000 up to now.
Average home price 2023 426 000.
That is, that's crazy, a bigincrease, um.
And average wages.

(01:06:50):
I have to set average wages onit.
Let's look at average wages of1980 versus 2025.
Oh, where's this little picture?
Show me the picture.
I can't read a whole articleright now.
Oh, there's nothing greatcoming up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
I know we looked at it before yeah.
And it's like all the differentinflation rates, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
You know these are oh huh, these are all too
complicated, they're not showingstuff.
Just give me the two numbers.
It was one of the.
Really the AI Googler wasgetting too far, but the we know
what it is.
You know it was like averagewage was like, you know, $20,000

(01:07:35):
.
I was like 70 or whatever, andit's like that's not quite
cutting the it's not cutting themustard yeah, exactly oh, here
we go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Found my grandparents house before they moved into
that one uh-huh it's a 2 555square foot home in uh highlands
ranch, colorado.
I remember they bought it forlike $300,000.
Big deal back then, you knowwhat I mean and it was gosh, I
wonder.
I'm looking here for thehistory to see what they sold it
for.
But nowadays it is worthestimated $715,000.

(01:08:12):
That's unreal to me, man.
That's like a 50% markup.
Yeah, they sold it.
They sold it.
Sorry, they bought it for justunder 300 000, sold it for 335
and now it's worth 715 in 20years that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
I mean what the craziest thing would be if you
looked at it like over the lastLooked at my grandfather's
salary.
Then or that.
And if you looked at the lastsix years, yeah, what it kind of
bumped in there, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
But hey, the crazy thing too is the new builds man.
They're built so bad.
I watched this guy on YouTubeso bad.
Who does it's like this homeinspector who?
Just he has this big floppy haton have?
Who does it's like this homeinspector who?

Speaker 1 (01:08:57):
just he has this big floppy hat on, have you?

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
seen the big floppy hat home inspector guy.
Yeah, yeah, sigh, uh, and hejust goes around and just tears,
these.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
I can't tell you who the builder is.
Yeah, he like just walks pastthe front sign.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
Yeah, it's always the best I mean they slap these
things together and they are notawesome.
I'm in new builds all the time.
I was looking around likethey're so bad.
Dude, what are they doing?
Yeah, it's rough.
So if you want a brand newhouse, bite the bullet and get a
custom home builder yeah,honestly, that's just better.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
It's gonna save you more money in the long run,
because the new builds areinsanely overpriced now anyways
and if you just get a customhome built, you're way better on
luck.
I've heard a lot of good things, too, from people who have
bought in our.
I mean, of course there's abias, right, you buy it and you
don't want to live in a badhouse and have a bad opinion of
house.
But I've heard a lot of goodthings that people buy in and

(01:09:46):
living in the um like, uh, kindof like manufactured homes where
you like, they're like kithomes right Like you build like
your basic floor plan.
That gets mailed and getsassembled and then you expand it
to whatever plan or design youwant to do, and they used to be
an alternative to how expensiveit was to just buy a home or buy

(01:10:10):
a custom home.
They were seen as a cheaperthing and now they're seen as
the more reliable, moreconsistent manufacturing than
you are getting with random JoeBlow contractors out there just
building stuff and not buildingit up to code or spec at all.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Yeah part of the reason why they they new builds
can hike their prices so high iswhat?
It's a game they're playing, isthey they?
They hike up that price but andwhat they're doing is they sell
you the home and and they sothey make money on it.
But also, what they're doing ishave in.
You probably saw this while youwere looking at some spots.
I don't know if you looked intoit, but in a new development,

(01:10:52):
they will finance the house foryou, yeah, and they will come in
way below way below on thepercentage rate I remember that
was the thing that was thebiggest red flag to me when we
were looking at stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
They're like, yeah, we'll, we'll come in at.
Uh, you know, we'll offer ittoday at a five, five point five
percent rate.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Uh and, as opposed to today's, we'll give you a
hundred thousand dollars downpayment.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I was like what?
You're gonna give me $100,000to go towards the down payment.
They're like yeah, yeah, we'llmark it off, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
So what this really looks like is Did I just walk
into a car dealership?
What's happening here?

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Exactly right.
And you see how everything elseis done with the oh yeah.
By the way, none of thesethings are in the home for you,
but you can just add them on theback of the sheet and they add
into the home cost.
And yeah, we are getting thecheapest from China washer and
dryer and stove.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Toilet.
I got to add the toilet.
Yeah, you got to add a toilet.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
But we're getting the cheapest one and we're gonna
see on the when, when it comesto closing costs, that washer
and dryer, thirty thousanddollars of the hundred thousand
dollars they marked off, oh yeah, it's just bonkers, it's
insanity.
Anyways, you know what?
We've covered a lot of stuffhere at today.
We've covered a lot ofdisgruntled results from our

(01:12:17):
current admin, which is sadbecause I think you know there's
so many people who voted forthis admin to deliver on things
that for the most part I feellike they were delivering on and
I say that's someone who didn'tvote for him like with like the
ambition or hope that theywould deliver on it.
But once they got in therethere was a lot I saw that they

(01:12:38):
were promising.
I'm like, hey, all right, youwon, let's see you deliver.
Here I'm still holding out formaha.
I'm still holding out hope that, like we truly do see all of
the dyes and all that removed.
I'm really fingers crossedhoping for and I know a lot of
people aren't gonna like thisbut just more thorough vetting
and review of the vaccinationsand the trials that were done on

(01:13:01):
them, because already there'sstuff coming out about, like the
Hep B trials and stuff andmandates and how Hep B is kind
of sketchy.
But all that said, I hope thehealth movement succeeds the
most.
That's the one I'mfinger-crossing the most,
because at least if we're notgetting cancer from the toxins

(01:13:22):
in our potato chips, then we'lllive long enough to hopefully
try to fix whatever the fuck upthey make.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
You know what I mean.
Yep, yep, I agree, that's theone that I think that lots of
people could get behind, youknow, and there's big money in
that that's gonna try to stop it, but that's the one that could
could have some, you know, havesome positive outcomes, and we
will see.
We'll see if, uh, if he, theold guy, gets it done you know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Sorry, bro.
Um, all right, well.
Well, hey, thanks for listening.
Ken, let us know what you'rehappy or unhappy with in the
current admin.
Um, oh gosh, and if you're outthere and you know some stuff
about Epstein and the list andyou know what, you're just ready
to spill the beans on it, letus know.

(01:14:14):
We'd love to have you talkabout it.
I'm making a giant call.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
I'm making a casting call right now.
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
We're like try it, dude, try it honestly, try it.
No, actually I'll say thisright now if you want to kill us
for talking about it, try it.
All, right, um with that.
Uh, yeah, we, we have a lot offun.
We had a lot of laughs here.
Thanks for listening.
We appreciate you, ken.
Pat, you got anything.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Till next time, folks .