Graham Wright (A*STAR Agency for Science, Technology and Research)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro/Outro (00:02):
Welcome to The Microscopists, a bite sized bio
podcast hosted by Peter O'Toole,sponsored

Peter O'Toole (00:16):
about changing from being a PhD from pure
research into about changingfrom being a PhD in pure
research into running a corefacility and what motivated him
to do that.

Graham Wright (00:26):
Over time, we sort of started developing it
more and more in the kind ofcore facility model. So we we
started to share thoseinstruments with the wider
audience, institute neighboringinstitutes or or the wider Aries
star.

Also, what it's like switching from a career in
the UK to Singapore and all theadvantages that that's enabled
him to achieve.

He's got historic links to to to the UK, and
English is the the main, mainleast spoken language. There's 4
official languages, but you youfind with English, everywhere in
Singapore. So so that it wasit's quite an easy place to to
come and either to visit or orto certainly to live and
establish a a kinda, life here.

Plus, we talk about his hobbies and how he
balances his family, both in theUK and over in Singapore as
well.

I think the the the realities of going in
winter, if we've been a fewtimes for Christmas, obviously,
it's a bit of a shock. But eventhat the novelty of being cold
and and Yeah. You know, when youbreathe out and the steam comes
out or condensation comes out,they're they're fascinated by
those sort of things becausethey never get exposed to that
here.

All in this episode of The Microscopists.
Hi. Welcome to the Microscris.Today, I'm joined by Graham
Wright from Astar over inSingapore. Morning, Graham.
Good evening, Graham.

Yeah. Good good afternoon. Good morning to you.
Glad to be here.

So this is quite a lot of people I've I've spoke
to who have gone sort of, whichway which direction, east to
west. But you're one of the fewscientists who've gone west some
way east. What inspired you togo to Singapore?

It's that's a it's a good question. And I as
as you know, and maybe we'll getto, I've been here for quite a
long time. But it was it was achance opportunity, to a large
degree. I was studying, for myPhD in Edinburgh, and, looking
to what to do next. And mysupervisor at the time, Nick
Nick Reid in Edinburgh,connected to me to someone who

(02:31):
was interested in in looking fora microscopist of some sort or
someone to run a microscopyfacility in Singapore.
And kind of the rest is history.It was it was a chance chance
encounter, a meeting at aconference with this person,
Greg Jed, and that that led to,an opportunity to come visit
Singapore and and later to run afacility at Timasek Life Science
Laboratory where I first startedout here.

So what what year was that?

That was at the end of 2007 that I first moved
here. So 16 years ago, which isfrightening to think about that
I've been

here for so long. Look. Do you have children at
that point?

Nope. We the plan during my PhD was that I would
move down to London where mythen, girlfriend was living, if
if, opportunity allowed. Andfortunately, I persuaded her to
come come join me in inSingapore, take a take a chance,
now married to the to that samegirlfriend, Charlotte, and we
have 3 children, together. But,no, it was a much easier

(03:29):
logistical move, moving here,back then.

Yeah. So so we'll come on to that then. So what
what was your degree in?

My my bachelor's was, in plant sciences, which
was also at Edinburgh, but itwas, and the way the biological
sciences is structured atEdinburgh, you go in as bio
biological sciences, and thenyou can specialize into the 3rd
4th year, of the degree course.So I went in not knowing which
of those honors years to do, andfell in love with with plant

(04:00):
science, but specificallymycology, within that, which was
the study of, fungal cellbiology or or fungi as a whole,
partly because of microscopy,because the the lecturer, which
was Nick Reid, who I madereference to earlier, was using
confocal microscopy and imagingthese incredible kind of dynamic
processes in in, filamentousfungi in their, hyphal networks,

(04:25):
and was showing this data whenhe was teaching on the botany
course or on the the plantsciences course, and and showing
this microscopy data in 2 d andin 3 d and in live cell imaging.
And that really sparked apassion for that subject, for
mycology, but really, for theapplication of microscopy to
that subject, which is what led,kind of fortuitously to my to my

(04:47):
PhD project in that group.

So you so you stayed in your undergraduate to
your PhD at the same place then?

Same same place. Yeah. But, obviously, changed
changed a lot in that. So my myundergrad was was plant science
as a whole, but, that that kindaignited my interest, which which
through conversations with Nick,through my final year project
and so on sort of led to thedevelopment of a of a PhD
project, that he he'd, kind ofput together, as a collaboration

(05:18):
between the physics departmentin Edinburgh, who were optical
physicists, implementing andinventing novel microscopy
techniques, and trying to findbiological applications for
that, which was all centeredaround his fungal cell biology
interests. And that's reallywhat defined my my project was
application development for forlaser tweezers or optical

(05:40):
tweezers, and how we can usethem to study fungal cells in
different ways, everything fromhow they grow to how they
germinate, how they communicatewith one another.
So it was really a tool thetools were developed, of course,
but it was really finding novelapplications for those tools.

So technologically speaking, that's
super geeky. Yeah.

A little bit. I mean, there were some
incredible, optical physicistsat Edinburgh who were were
pulling these systems together.So I I can't ever claim to be an
engineer or a physicist, but, itwas that, you know, they were
building systems that were notgenerally that accessible to to
every biologist, but I think Iwas being encouraged to be a
microscopist from from thatearly stage and and get in

(06:23):
there, work with them,understand the systems, and and
make use of them. So I had asupervisor in in the physics
department and a supervisor inthe biology department, and I
would have to have, you know,supervisor meetings with each of
them. And it was great if theywere on their own because I
could talk about biologistsbiology to the physicist, and I
could talk about physics to thebiologist.

(06:44):
When they were in the room atthe same time, it's a bit more
dangerous because they theycould both sort of, properly
understand it more than I couldin both domains.

So I was going to ask about how you found having 2
split supervisors. How often didyour physics supervisor drive
you in one direction, but thebiology will then pull you back
and take you back in a differentdirection? How was that fairly
harmonious, or was theresometimes you you you cherry
pick maybe what you liked onewas saying and what the other

(07:14):
was saying?

Yeah. It's a good one. I I was kind of in the
middle. It was prettyharmonious, relationship. There
was interest on both sidesbecause of the the sort of
novelty that the biology broughtto the physicists physics
department and vice versa.
I I don't remember many, manyparticularly difficult moments.
I think it was, it was anenthusiasm for the project,

(07:36):
because of perhaps the noveloutcomes that that were going on
through it. And as I said, somegreat, physicists. There was
one, Sander Joachim Alt, who wasreally the building these
systems, and I would interactmostly with him. Well, I had to
give, in institutional seminars,internal seminars of of both
forums, which was always alwaysthrough all sorts of different
questions, as you can imagine,from 2 different disciplines.

So so I have a question then. In your current
job, do your users think you area biologist or a physicist? Do
they ask you, oh, did you do aphysics degree, or did you do a
biology degree?

I think I don't I've never asked, but I I assume
they, they think I'm abiologist. And the conversations
we have are around, aroundbiology, not not so much
physics. We're we're we're notin in the the facility that I
run out here in in Singapore isis the A Star Microscopy
platform, which is a centralcore facility, as as you know.

(08:32):
We're not we're not building andand developing novel microscopy
tools or or building sort of akind of precommercial releases.
We're we're exclusively housingcommercial, microscopes.
So it's so it's I I perhaps Icome across less less as a kind
of physics y person because ofthat.

I think it's fine until you start training them
sort of the depths of confocalor the depths of super bears or
the depths of crap. And at thatpoint, that's when they go, oh,
did you do a physics degreethen?

Yeah. I'll try it. Probably strive to keep it
digestible both for my own sakeand and for theirs. That it's,
you know, it's often theconversations we have with our
users who are who arepredominantly biologists are
about how to use this instrumentfor my, my experiment, how to
get the most out of it, butwithout going into every nuance

(09:24):
of the the kind of technicaldetails, around them.

Yeah. I I don't think I'm going to define
nuances. I just think that theythink I'm such a bad biologist.
I must have been a physicist andthe physicist, the bad piece of
space in the biology. So I thinkI'm hiding somewhere in the
middle.

I think you'd have to ask the users probably
for the inner truth on that one,actually.

So, take I'm going to take you way back. So
when when you were do youremember the first job that you
ever wanted to do as a child?

Yeah. I I think growing up, my parents would
probably back this up. I think Ialways said I wanted to be a
pilot. Mhmm. And in in my mind,from from memory, it was a civil
aviation pilot, and I had thiskind of very kinda romantic
dream of what it was like.
For whatever reason, I pursuedmy interest usually when it when
it came to to school and and,you know, studying and so on. So

(10:19):
I pursued my interest. I lovedbiology always at secondary
school. I I was actually tornbetween biology and geography
when it came to a levels and andapplying to university and so on
and chose chose biology. Butyeah.
So I pursued my interest in whatwhat I was enjoying at the time,
what I was sort of thriving offas a topic, and and, I don't
think biology naturally leads tobeing a pilot. So I went off on

(10:43):
this, this tangent of plantsciences and mycology and
microscopy.

So where did the plant science come from?

Yeah. Good one. So so so as I said, Edinburgh
structure of the degree at thetime, at least in Edinburgh, was
that you entered biologicalsciences. And then through the
choices of courses that you did,that sort of limited the the
honors years available to you.And there were 14 honors years
when you first oh, it's aScottish university, so it's an
extra year.
So you had, 14 available to you.And then as you narrowed it

(11:16):
down, you got less and less. ButI, I was interested in the the
mycology as I explained earlier,and I enjoyed the plant sciences
a lot, not not so much from theecology side more or botany side
more from the kind of, the sortof cell biology level of plant
science. And there was someexcellent teachers, and, faculty

(11:37):
and research going on inEdinburgh, in that space at the
time, which which was reallykind of motivating and
inspiring. And so I againfollowed my interests, which is
perhaps the story of, of mycareer in many respects.

Okay. So you did your degree then onto the PhD,
as you said. Did you go on to apostdoctoral? I didn't.

So in during my PhD, I I kinda made the, the
decision that I wanted to gointo microscopy and facilities
management and and specifically,And at the time, that that was
kind of a quite a newish thingto do, but my my lab had spawned
a few people. So Sam Swift hadgone to Dundee at the time to to

(12:17):
establish a facility there withJason, and a few others had gone
and either worked closely withor or been associated with with
core microscopy facilities. AndI I was very passionate about
the, you you know, microscopy.I'd I'd got involved in teaching
people how to use the confocalthat we had in the lab from all
the all the labs in thedepartment, and sort of set my

(12:39):
sights on this being a potentialopportunity. And then as I as I
explained, the the right chancecame up at the right time.
It just happened to be halfwayaround the world in in
Singapore. But, so, yeah, I wasquite focused. I made a clear
decision not to pursue apostdoc. I think I was I didn't
like how narrow I was gettinginto one particular topic with a

(13:01):
with a PhD and but I did enjoyworking with lots of other
different people and and usingthe the common tool set as it
was the confocal for forstudying all these different
organisms, different, you know,problems and challenges largely
around, plant biology becausethat's the department I was in.
But, yeah, thrived off that.
So so a few people had sort oftreading the path ahead of me

(13:24):
and then opened up my eyes tothis opportunity, and then was
lucky, I guess, with the timing.

Yeah. I think 2007 is quite foresightful to
think that's what you want to doand find a job. And because you
say it was the core facilitiesback in 2007 were only really
emerging. They were only juststarting to gather a bit of
momentum. So to know those jobsexisted at a PhD is quite
impressive.
As you say, so it's yeah. Nick'sLab and

and I think Nick's Lab was a lot of it. He
he'd got me, involved with theRoyal Microscopical Society, of
course, and and I think that'swhere I first met you was a, a
micro science, as it was calledat the time, down in London in
Excel. And and up again, thatopened my eyes to there was a
microscopy community out there.There was a community of people

(14:14):
that was teaching other peoplehow to use microscopes or
facilitating access to advancedmicroscopy. Yeah.
So so I'd sort of been my eyeshave been open to it in that
sense. Lucky that theopportunity came up at the right
time. I I was then very, verylucky. I got secured the job in

(14:35):
Singapore, and there was a hadhad to wait a period of time
while they worked out the visasand the employment pass and so
on. And at the time, the thedirector of the institute I was
moving to is also changing over,and, Steve Cohen from EMBL was
moving to be the director ofthis institute in Singapore.
So he, helped arrange for me tovisit the ALMS in EMBL for a

(14:58):
couple of months, en route, toSingapore, if you like. And I
spent spent a great time there.Stefan Therion was there. Timo
Zimmerman was just leaving, Ithink, at that time.

He was

on a visit back from from Barcelona when he was
going there, and it it wasfantastic opportunity. Right? I
got to see how, you know, one ofthe early facilities, one of the
most developed facilities at thetime was running and how how
well supported it was. Kota wasin the neighboring room doing
the image analysis and and thatside of things. So, really, that

(15:32):
helped set me on a path as Iarrived in Singapore to try and
emulate that in some way or atleast bring bring the relevant
bits of that to the facility inSingapore.

Three megastars of cool facilities there, aren't
they, Stephanie?

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. What a what a a what a on
on a sites was also there. Ithink he was on his way to EPFL
at that time.
So lots of lots of people there,but also that network. Right?
The the people I've just listedwho have been phenomenally
helpful, to me when I arrived inSingapore, I could I could ask
them, you know, for advice andknowledge. Rainer, Peppercock,
of course, was was thereoverseeing AMF at the time. So

(16:08):
some some brilliant connectionsand and subsequently had lots of
chances to interact with thatcommunity at other meetings or
in, you know, opportunities totravel and so on.

So so thinking about oh, we'll come back to
that in a moment, actually. Sonow you see more Raina and Timo
in different meetings now. Butwhen you moved to Singapore,
what did you think you'd missmost?

From a, I guess, from a personal side or a Yeah.
Or culture. What did I think I'dmiss most before I left? I was
really worried you couldn't getYorkshire tea here for a while,
but but it turns out you can. Sothat's okay.
And I I remember, but as I said,my then girlfriend, we're,
we're, you know, we were we'resort of exploring whether you
can get this, that, and theothers. It was comfort foods and

(16:54):
and that sort of thing. Thereality is it's very easy to
live, in Singapore. It's, anincredible place, and and you
can get most things from mostdifferent cultures and parts of
the world. But most of the thefood that is produced locally or
or, you know, served locally isphenomenal.
So, I think I think in truth,probably in in in hindsight, the

(17:16):
the miss the most is probablyfamily. Right? Because it's a
long, long way. There's athere's a big time difference. 8
hours, as you know, at theminute.
And, that that that's we're sortof a long way from home, but
things like, well, it was Skypeoriginally now, Zoom and
FaceTime and so on. It makes itmuch easier to be this far away,

(17:37):
from home because you you get tosee see one another and have
these kind of conversations,which is is quite different to a
an isolated phone call.

And how often do you get back, or how often do
your parents come over visityou?

So pretty much, I'll go home once a year. May
maybe if I'm lucky with aconference that I'm attending in
in in Europe, I get maybe getanother chance. So once once a
year, generally in summer.Winter's a bit of a shock coming
coming from a tropical country,like, you've been away for so
long. But, you know, once ayear, I'd go there, and my
parents, on average, I guess,have visited here, once a year

(18:12):
as well.
So so still still plenty ofplenty of visits, but it's not
not quite down the road. Right?

Yeah. And quality visits because they're longer
probably periods of time that

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so it's in that sense, it's a
long way away, but we've sort ofmaintained that.

And you're paying me to Manchester Way?

Yep. Yeah. I grew I grew up in South Manchester,
and they're still there in inSale. So that's that's still
home. My my wife's parents arebased down in, Farnham in
Surrey, which is obviously a bitbit of a distance away from,
also accessible.

Yeah. But if you go and visit your parents and
from Singapore to Manchester,not only cold but continuously
damp. Not not not the terriblydamp pools.

Yeah. No. It's it's not so short and sharp in
Manchester. It's sort of longand prolonged.

And for Mancunian to actually say you want
Yorkshire tea, is is thatallowed?

Definitely allowed. It's definitely the
best tea. Sure. Don't thinkthere's a Yorkshire tea. An
equivalent of it on his side.

And so when you went to Singapore, what did you
find most challenging on apersonal level rather than work?

Honestly, I think it's the heat. I'm
physiologically not designed tolive in in in the tropical
country. Was born and bred inManchester as we've discussed,
and I think I'm much more suitedto that climate. In terms of,
you know, cultural things toaddress, as I said earlier, it's
it's it's really quite an easyplace to assimilate into.
There's there's a a mix ofeverything here.

(19:46):
It's a very kind of diverseplace. Obviously, it's got
historic links to to to the UKand English is the the main
mainly spoken language. There's4 official languages, but you
you'll find with English,everywhere in Singapore. So so
that it was it's quite an easyplace to to come and either to

(20:07):
visit or or to certainly to liveand establish a a kinda life
here. So I didn't there wasn'tthat much that was challenging
apart from it was just reallyhot and sweaty the whole time.
It's it's continually, you know,over 30 degrees and a 100 or so
percent humidity. So it's it'squite a a a strong climate.
Obviously, it's air conditionedinside, so it helps Inside.

But one of your hobbies is triathlons. You sent
me a picture, which is you withyour because you triathlon.

They're they're my kids. Yep.

Getting a road bike and, your children. How do
you train then if you're not,don't like the heat, and you're
in

Singapore, easy?

Quite warm.

Yeah. I think I think the the when you're
exercising and you get hot andbothered, that's okay because
you're exercising. It's more thethat I find the heat a problem
when you've gotta try and get torush to a meeting, and look
reasonably presentable, and andthat's difficult to do and to so
so I don't mind getting hot on aon a bike or running or
whatever, but it's, you don'twanna plan to arrange an

(21:08):
important meeting an hour laterbecause you're gonna still be
very red faced and andattempting to cool down for a
long, long time. How do you findthe endurance aspect, though?

Endurance aspect, though? Because, like I said,
certainly when I came overSingapore, running was great fun
for 10 ks. Yep. Realizedactually going more than 10 k is
gonna you get I I I was gonnastart to feed. So

how do you It's it's hot. It's hot. And so the
secret so I I cycle mainly. I dodo some triathlons, but mostly I
cycle. And I've got a greatgroup of friends here, that I
cycle with, the weekends.
And the secret is to to go earlyso you get home before the heat
of the day kicks in and beforethe traffic wakes up and the

(21:51):
roads become a bit more kindachaotic. But we go early. We we
meet at 7 o'clock in themorning. We're home by 9 o'clock
in the morning. And with withthat, you can almost do a decent
loop of Singapore because it'snot a very big place.

Yep.

And, yeah, that that's how we deal with it. So I
wouldn't ever go for a bike rideand if I could avoid it in the
the heat of the day. It's justas much less pleasant
experience. And then carry asmany water bottles as you can
conceivably squeeze on the bike.That's the other secret, which
for running is very hard.
Right? Because you tend not torun with a lot of water, and and
it, is extremely

dehydrating. So we saw your children in your
previous picture, and here's apicture of your family. Yeah.
For your children, how old areyour children now?

So Hartley in the middle there, he's, 11 years
old. Then Connie near me is, 9,and Otto has just turned 6.

I suppose they've only known life in Singapore.

Absolutely. Yeah.

What do they make of it when they come back to the
UK?

They they love it. I mean, they it it's always
a visit to the grandparents'houses or to, you know, see
friends that maybe move fromSingapore or otherwise, friends
and family. And and as I saybefore, we always go in summer,
so the weather's usually prettyclement. And they have a great
time, and and it's it's all abig adventure. I think I think
the the the realities of goingin winter, if we've been a few

(23:14):
times for Christmas, obviously,is a bit of a shock.
But even that, the novelty ofbeing cold and and you know,
when you breathe out and thesteam comes out, condensation
comes out, they're they'refascinated by those sort of
things because they never getexposed to that here. And a
funny one is that here, if ifyour windows condense up, it's
on the on the opposite side ofwhat it is at home. It's on the

(23:34):
outside rather than the inside,because the heat is obviously
reversed. But, the things thatthey notice, things like that,
is is always fascinating towatch because they're just not
used to a colder climate. And,you know, the the vegetation's
different.
The trees are different. The thekind of animals you see here are
basically quite different. Wedon't really see many, in
Singapore, popping pets.

So you've you've been there now all, oh, 15, 16,
17, 17 years.

16 at the moment. Yeah. On the way to 17.

How long did you think you would be over there
when you left when we left leftUPenn?

I think we we thought we'd be here for, like,
2 or 3 years, and go and enjoyit and then probably come back.
And we we haven't. Right? I'vechanged jobs once I or changed
employers once I moved from TeamAssek Life Science Laboratory
after 3 years to Astar, which isthe agency for science,
technology, and research where Iwhere I still am, although my

(24:31):
role has changed significantlyover that time. And the jobs are
typically based on a acontracted period, so 3 years of
plus.
And every time we've got to thepoint of renewing, we've, it's
been a no brainer. We've chosenand wanted to to renew and and
stay for longer. And thensuddenly you look back and
you're like, what? We've beenhere for 15 15 plus years. Yeah.

(24:54):
It was never in the pan, but,it's been a lot of fun and I
think testament to how much wewe've enjoyed our time here as
well.

So you mentioned lots of role changes within
Astar. What have those changesbeen?

So so when I came across, to Astar, I I joined an
institute called the Instituteof Medical Biology, which is
within well, is within, Astar,one of the one of the biomedical
research institutes. And Ijoined as their microscopy
facility manager, I think waswas my title. And they had a

(25:27):
microscopy facility called theIMB microscopy unit, which, was
overseen by a PI called SuhailAhmed, who is a great great
mentor and person to work withwho who helped, had had
established this facility in arelatively young institute. And
it was sort of it was a bit of acore facility, but it was some

(25:49):
of the instrumentation was veryfocused on his lab's own
interest, which were around ftechniques, FCS, FLIM, etcetera,
and upon pushing thosetechniques, for those
applications. But it also hadconfocals that were shared with
the rest of the institute, livecell imaging systems, and so on.
So that that's where I startedin 8 Star. And over time, we

(26:10):
sort of started developing itmore and more in the kind of
core facility model. So we westarted to share those
instruments with the wideraudience, into neighboring
institutes or or the widerAstar, then more broadly with
the Singapore community, the thebig 2 big universities here, the
NUS and NTU, that started usingsome of the instrumentation
tapping onto our expertise,particularly when it was a

(26:32):
unique capability, of course.And then we started to charge
and and have the cost recoverand some of the other factors of
of running a facility started tocome to bear because it was
growing in scale and size anduser base. And it sort of
evolved over time, and I Istayed doing doing that for
many, many years of growing therole, expanding to cover all the

(26:54):
techniques.
We we added an electronmicroscopy capability. We, you
know, accumulated more noveltechniques, super resolution,
and and so on. And then westarted kind of merging some of
these capabilities with otherinstitutes, capabilities to make
sure it was a kind of moreholistic, core facility or
central facility. So in in thattime frame, my my my title

(27:17):
changes a little bit as as wellas did my roles and
responsibilities as we sort ofevolved the facility. And then
more recently, I've I'vechanged, and I now sadly don't
do much microscopy in terms ofvery hands on actually using the
microscopes myself, but I'vetransitioned over to an
organization called the ResearchSupport Center, which as the

(27:39):
name suggests, we're here to tosupport research, and that takes
various different forms.
Everything from overseeing andand making sure the core
facilities or technologyplatforms, as we call them, are
well run and coordinated andavailable to the community. We
also try and alleviate the a lotof the administrative burden of
the the scientists that arerunning the facilities. We do

(28:00):
their billing, for example, andsome of the marketing promotion,
inquiry handling, things frontoffice and back office, the way
we refer to it. And that that's,sort of more managerial kind of
over oversight role. And thenRSC, the research support
support center, does lots ofother things.
We run a consumables business,so we buy in bulk, the best

(28:21):
price possible and sell it tothe research community to to
drive efficiencies and make surethat we're getting a good price
for for these goods. We run realcritical central support
services like a glasswarewashing facility, and
sterilization facility,biohazard waste handling, and so
on, and that's, you know, reallykind of bread and butter

(28:42):
facility that keeps keeps theresearch moving. And, you know,
all these other supportivefunctions, very kind of
operational, hands on, but butreally driven by helping the
researchers crack on and do somedo some great research while we
take care of some of the theother tasks. But microscopy is
still part, I'm pleased to say.

So are you still leading the microscopy side?

I am. So it's it's about to be transferred
actually to another institute,but I'll still remain involved
and, on the steering committeeand and helping to advise and
consult Xiaozhiao Ma who nowruns that facility at an
operational level, together withwith with the colleagues there.
So I'll I'll be a little bitfurther from it, going forward,

(29:28):
but I still teach on thecourses, and, take part in some
of the initiatives we run. We'vegot a a national, national level
partnership, between the majormicroscopy facilities in
Singapore, which is calledSingoscope, and that brings
together this community. Andthat I'll still be very actively
involved in in that sort ofcoordination as well.

(29:51):
So this is interesting.

I see your role. It it it's what's been really
good to hear is how your yourcareer has been developed and
how Astar have helped youdevelop your career as well.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So it's not for everyone, but you've been able
to progress. I presume these areupward steps.

Yep. That makes sense. Absolutely.

But now you're kind of leaving the hands on,
leaving the need for technicalexpertise to an extent Yeah.
Because you now have otherscoming in. So does that mean the
conferences you go to are goingto change? So instead of being
the as you mentioned earlier,microcytes and MMCs, which is in
your hometown of Manchester now.

Yes. I know. No, no, no.

Your your LMEs, your things like that. Are you
going to have and form are yougoing to have to leave those
behind and start going to theABRF or the CTLS called
technologies for life sciencesor the even in the UK, the
technical specialist network.You can are you are you gonna
invite migrate to those now andprioritize those brothers?

I it's been happening, I guess, again, with
hindsight. I I have, kind ofembraced those opportunities. I
haven't been to ABRS yet, but Ihave been to CTLS meetings,

in the past.

I think the last one I went to was in Ghent,
which was a a great meeting.But, the I was running up and up
until now, I've been runningthat in parallel with attending
microscopy meetings and andthese more kind of facilities or
core facility orientatedmeetings. The and I've added on

(31:30):
to that the the globalbioimaging meetings which they
call the exchange of experience,which has been a, fantastic
community to get involved in.Thanks to, yeah. Thank you very
much.

Global one of the global bioging meetings, which
would in Singapore itself,wasn't it, in this case? It was

in Singapore. Yeah. So so the Singerscope,
partnership that I referred toearlier, which was a kind of,
Singapore wide, coordination ofall the different, light
microscopy capabilities, gaverise to me getting involved in
in global bioimaging, and it wasby the director of IMB that I
referred to earlier was wasBirgit Lane, at the time, and

(32:08):
she was instrumental inintroducing me to John Erickson,
who's in the center right ofthat photograph, who was heavily
involved with Euro Bio Imaging,was was was had helped develop
this global bio bio bioimaginginitiative together with, Jan
and Ellenberg and and Anja andothers that were involved in the
early days of Euro BioMFG. And,through Synoscope, we got tuned

(32:32):
into this. I went to a few oftheir meetings, and then we were
asked whether we'd be interestedto host the meeting in
Singapore, which gave rise tothe one on screen.
And that they're very differentconversations. It's all around,
bioimaging of some sort, whetherit's, LM electron microscopy or
or the more kind of clinicalpreclinical methodologies. But
it brings together thiscommunity who who many of whom

(32:54):
are running and hands on withmicroscopy, but also there's the
facilities angle. There's thepolicy and funding angle.
There's a lot lot of differentinterest in that group, and
they've proven to be reallygreat meetings.
Lots of good people there on thepicture that have have changed.
Is it quite differentconversation as well to we have
at some of the others. A bit abit like the the satellite

(33:16):
meetings we see at LME, the corefacilities satellite meetings.
It's similar conversationsamongst these groups as well.

And, obviously, we've got the LM facilities
meetings, which are earlyJanuary, so still fit in with
trip home as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and, I certainly advocate
those to to colleagues and soon. And I know some of my
colleagues have been to jointhem in there. That community is
is brilliant.
Right? Is is again sharingexperience of running a running
a facility. We will have thesame problems in or same
challenges in in different kindof ways, but but I'm a great

(33:52):
advocate of sharing that. Andvisiting each other's facilities
is always an extremely usefulthing to do to to get insights
in how it's run, how theyapproach different, sorry, the
same problems in different ways.These are things extremely
valuable.

I and I think what's interesting as well is
the problems so so you'll know,I guess, not just microscopy.
You've got other core facilitiesby presumably in genomics, in
mass spectrometry and othertechnologies out there. And even
though they meet like globalbioimaging, it's imaging, it's
microscopy, it's for the lifesciences. But I presume that the

(34:31):
discussions you have actuallyare completely relatable. It's
just the name microscope can bechanged for genomics.
The name of genomics can bechanged from aspect. You know,
you hear sometimes electronmicroscopy say how they're cool
is so different to lightmicroscopy cool. Actually, I
don't think they are. There's adifferent bias, a different
balance of instruments and staffratios and time and demands. But

(34:54):
ultimately, the fundamentals,the basics are the same.
Those meetings are still superuseful for no matter what your
technology biases. Yeah.

You can it's very translatable. I I totally agree
with that. I think, we we see itis very, very kind of what
applies here can apply there. Ithink what we see in this
oversight, or coordination rolethat we have is that they the
techniques are obviously verydifferent. The way samples are
prepared and processed and so oncan be very different.

(35:25):
We also have 2 sort of majordifferent modes of operation.
Some that are training followedby self use of the instruments
or your supported self use as itmay be, but, you know they'll
teach it to a user. It can betaught in a in a matter of hours
or a couple of days, differentsessions and so on, a way that
it can you can get on and usethe instrument at least at a

(35:47):
certain level of proficiency.And that's perhaps typical of,
microscopy, and and flowcytometry to some degree, I
think. And then we have otherfacilities or platforms that are
much more kind of service orcollaboratively oriented that
they'll it's not a case of we'llteach you how to use it and on
you go.
It's it's very much we'll we'lleither do it for you or or

(36:07):
perhaps with you, better in inmany cases, and really spend the
time together trying tounderstand, is it this we need
to do? Is it this we need to do?Or or helping alleviate the the
the kind of huge hurdletechnological hurdle is to get
get running on thoseinstruments, effectively. So
coordinating that, it obviouslyis this than different

(36:28):
challenges that come with it,but but the, I think
appreciating that andappreciating it. Okay.
But the expectations of thiswill be quite different to to
another facility is importantand somewhere we're trying to
develop at the minute. And thisis built off ideas coming out of
ABRF and and other publicationsfrom from those sort of groups,
particularly Phil Hochberger, inNorthwestern. We've had a lot of

(36:53):
conversation with him and andIan Smith who used to be at
Monash University in Australia,they is how to fairly kind of
assess these platforms in termsof their performance or at least
set set kind of expectations.And it's what we've come to
realize, and it's obviouslyquite clear, is that they're not
all working to the same aims.Right?

(37:13):
They they all work in differentmodels. They they may, you know,
publish a lot of papers ascoauthors versus they may earn a
lot of revenue versus they mayhave a hugely wide user base
that they can share theirinstruments with or or maybe a a
narrow one. They're all verydifferent in what we can see and
expect from that. So we try andtake a very kind of fair view

(37:34):
and and and measure them on lotsof different attributes and then
then sort of judge what what isthe most appropriate targets or
or aims for for for thattechnology versus that
technology is where we're sortof working at the minute.

It's it's a I I you may not want to answer this.
What's the most difficulttechnology of the core facility
to which one doesn't have thesame income compared to the
others, doesn't have the same ofco authorship, so the
collaborative side. And yet it'sstill fundamentally vital, but
But for whatever reason, whichone's the most challenging?

Yeah. I probably shouldn't answer that, should I?
That's a good question. I andthey've all got their own, you
know Strengths? Strengths andand, challenges, let's say, or
opportunities.
I don't think there's one thatstands out as the hardest one or

(38:33):
the most difficult one. I Imean, looking back, electron
microscopy is is phenomenallyexpensive, to run, and and, that
that's one factor, of course,that, you know, keeping up with
equipment in that space is verydifficult. I think I think, if
we'd say take a different youknow, maybe a different extreme
is that we have have ahistopathology facility, which

(38:54):
is called the advanced molecularpathology laboratory. And they
they they can do much kindahigher throughput, or or or much
larger amount of samples, andand therefore can, you know, the
the metrics are very different.Same same in even within
microscopy.
Right? We have some systems thatrequire a lot of dedication to
sit down and use and reallyunderstand things like live cell

(39:17):
imaging or the or more extreme,the super resolution,
techniques. And then we alsohave a slide scanner, which
which sits there and just runsautomatically the entire time.
And if we drill down to the kindof if you look to the financial
metrics, the productivity ofthat versus that is very
different just because thenature of the instruments are
very different.

No. I I don't I'm not gonna say which one I it's
not the most challenging. Notthe most challenging to manage.
Just their metrics are always nomatter what metric you use,
their metrics will be lower thanwhoever's tapped. They never top
any of those metric pilots.
And that's not the lab. It'sjust the science.

Technology. Yeah. And the user base. The user base

in some place will be very different. And so
that change. We still have tohave it. It's still an under
underpinned vital asset. So itdoesn't mean the lab's not
successful.
Just by any metric, it's nevergonna be the best.

Yeah. That that's why we developed this sort of
collective of metrics, ratherthan 1. Right? Because if you
look at 1, then it's flawed todo so because they may be
producing very differentexpectations, learn different,
you know, things acrossdifferent metrics very
differently. And it's a sort of,you know, balanced scorecard
type approach.
We we're trying to build it nowinto dashboards so that the the

(40:36):
platforms and it's really tohelp the platforms. The
platforms can put this togetherand help justify, their
resistance, their funding, theirsupport that they get to the the
powers that be, and and reallyshow the value and the impact
and the the underlying sort ofvalue they're bringing to the
organization through throughthat work, which is I mean,

(40:58):
we're preaching to the converteda little bit here, but it's, of
course, extremely high andextremely valuable.

Mhmm. Okay. Switch it for a minute because I
know we're getting quite deepinto our

I think we

can carry this on at another point. There were
some quick fire questions.You're an early bird or night
owl?

Early bird.

It's got to be if you're going out exercising
early as well. Yep. Yep. PC orMac?

Oh, Mac. My choice, but I'm on a PC now.

So McDonald's or Burger King? Oh,

probably McDonald's, I think.

Okay. Coffee or tea?

Tea. Yorkshire tea.

Well, I I I I've heard we said that earlier
That's to be done doing that.

That's a so if if if my family members come and
visit me, they're not allowed inthe house unless they brought a
box box of your Yorkshire teawith them.

Beer or wine?

Beer. Chocolate or cheese?

Oh, cheese. Oh, cool. You're nice and decisive.
This is good. Is there any foodyou don't like?

No. Not much. I think when I I suppose if you
spoke to my mom, she'd probablysay when I was younger, I was
quite fussy, but now I'm I'mgame for trying everything. And
I think living here, in thisreally kind of melting pot of
all these different cultures andand this part of the world.
Right?
There's some incredible foodoptions to explore. So I'll I'll

(42:33):
try it. I'm I'm on it. Say Ilove it all, but I'll give it a
go.

Okay. It's it's interesting question from my
recent report. How often do youeat at home? How often do you
eat out?

Probably 2 phases of life here. Pre kids was
eating out a lot more thaneating at home. I think post
post kids, we eat at home a lotmore. My my wife, Charlie, loves
to cook. So she, you know, sheshe, by choice, would probably
eat at home and preparesomething delicious That's
that's always the case.
Make sure I say that.

Tell you what, the culture in Singapore is far
more an 18 Yeah.

And, actually, your it's a good point. You the
the socializing here is oftendone over food, whereas, back
back in the UK, it was perhapsmore kinda go for a pint or, you
know, go for a drink. Here, alot of the socializing is done
done over food, perhaps less ofa kind of drinking drinking
culture in that sense, but butalso the food is is a real kinda

(43:31):
center point culturally here. Sosome some of Singapore is very
proud of and does very well forsure. And you have these these,
food courts or hawker centers,which are kinda communally
shared tables, but with allthose food stalls around the
outside.
So you can kinda pick and chooseyour favorites from that, which
is good good ways to socialize.

And what's your favorite food? Do you have a top

food? That's a good one. I I, I suppose so
there's a place here where youcan go for satay, so, chicken
satay, etcetera. And it's a it'sa I think it used to be a
Glaswegian market that wasshipped over to Singapore way
way back and rebuilt here calledLau Pa Sat. And every night,

(44:17):
they close off one street nextto Lau Pa Sat, and then they put
out all these barbecues, andthey start cooking the satay.
And it's it's a greatatmosphere. You're surrounded by
all the skyscrapers of the CBD,in Singapore. And, but then
there's this kind of, you know,lo fi barbecue going on with
great satay. So that's always aa great place to bring visitors

(44:38):
and and family love it. I thinkfamily favorite is if we said
what what what do we wanna gofor, I think dumplings, would be
pretty high up on the agenda, athome.
For me, I love a good curry aswell, and that's always a
delicious thing to do.

Do you cook yourself?

Bad badly and rarely, I think, is probably
fair. I think, like, the, mywife is much better better at
that, so I don't do it veryoften.

Does she work over there?

She she does. Yeah. Yeah. She's a she's a
teacher now. When we first movedthere, she was in, medical
communications and publications,but she switched a few years
back to become a teacher.
She retrained in the PGCEI andis our teacher in the
international school, one of theinternational schools where
where the kids also attend, andis loving. She's she's a

(45:29):
scientist by background. That'swhen we met back in Edinburgh
and teaches biology and scienceto secondary school students. So
the opportunities over there

have been really quite good, haven't they?

Yeah. It's, it's been it's been a good run. And
and I think the this like I say,the ability to kind of retrain,
I suppose I did that to somedegree with studying on top of
top of my biological background.I went and did an MBA as well by
distance learning, and I thinkthat that has helped also breed

(46:02):
breed some opportunities or orhelped change direction
slightly.

So, Humphrey, I'll I'll come back to the quick
five. So I was gonna ask aboutthe MBA side. How much time did
that require outside of the dayjob?

Well, a lot. So so I did it, I did it at
Warwick, University in the UK,by distance learning, and this
was pre pre COVID. So it wasdone done by distance because I
sort of selected it based onthe, you know, the reputation of
the business school being onlineand then I could be a be a move

(46:38):
around and do it if the needarose. And it was a 3 a 3 year
course on top of work full time.And it was a lot of commitments,
a lot of late nights both toattend live live lectures as
well, and it worked also tocover the material.

(46:59):
It was a lot of work a lot ofwork. And we're, ridiculously,
Otto, our youngest, was born inamongst all that. So there was
some very late nights for thatreason as well, which was was
probably a bit of a challenge.That was why did you feel you
needed it? As we've described,I'd I'd I'd done, running a I've

(47:20):
been running a facility for along time and kinda grown it to
a certain point from a from a myown seniority perspective as
well as how it was organized andran.
And I wanted and I thinkprobably a lot of facility
managers would agree it's a bitlike running a small business,
in a sense that you're, youknow, you're in charge of it as
a domain, and you've gotincomes, outgoings, cost

(47:41):
balance, getting funding,etcetera. And some of that I'd
I'd sort of highlighted that Iwas interested in that that side
of it, as well as I wanted tohave perhaps a formal education
and experience in how to do itproperly or how to do elements
of kind of businessadministration properly, and to
open opportunities to where Icould take it next. So chose to

(48:04):
do it, and it was great. Reallysort of enjoyable. I learned a
lot, but it was hard work, bothfor being out of my comfort
zone, going back to studyingmany, many, many years after
doing it previously, and acompletely new topic.
Right? You know, being abiologist and scientist entirely
by background. It was suddenlydoing marketing and doing

(48:25):
accountancy, which strangely Ienjoyed quite a lot. And all
these other disciplines,strategic thinking. But but a
lot of it has been very useful,in running a facility, but also
taking taking the job to whereI've gone now, which as we
discussed is much more kind ofadministrative and managerial.

And did you pay for that personally? It was

yeah. The and it's expensive. I I got a I
think, some support or ascholarship from from Warwick,
because they activelyencouraged, applicants from sort
of varied and differentdisciplines or different
backgrounds. So that helped abit, but, yeah, I was, funded
personally. And but because ofthis requirement to have this,

(49:07):
these diverse backgrounds or thedesire to have these diverse
backgrounds, the cohort ofstudents was a fascinating,
bunch of people.
And they all I think you all hadto have 5 years plus experience
of managing something, or somepeople. And that brought a real
wealth of experience to the tothe conversations, not not, you
know, teamwork and group groupwork as well.

I presume you had to get permission from ASTAR to
take this on?

I remember at the time, yes, I sought permission
from my supervising, kindanetwork, and and they were very
supportive, in doing it in sortof a personal development angle.
I don't think and I hope itdidn't impinge too much on my
day job. I I I think I still getthat get that going well, but
and then I used annual leave andso on to go and visit the

(49:54):
course. The course required youevery semester to go back and do
a week in person, which wasobviously very valuable. I think
I used personal leave for forfor all of those trips.

And more of expense.

Yes. Also true. I I always tag on a visit home to
to make sure. So I said hello toeverybody.

Toto. Okay. I lived

down to Coventry. That was part of the problem.

It's kind of in the middle of both of them,
isn't it? In laws and blue. Butagain, it's good that Astar
being supportive. And

obviously, you

need that. Yeah. You know, that that rewards
because now you're in adifferent position where that
those skills and expertise areeven more useful.

Yeah. Astar have been fantastic as as a as a
supporting entity and giving meopportunities, I think, shaped
by some of the people that I'veworked closely with, as well as
the, you know, organizationallyopen to to me pursuing these
things or fulfilling quitedifferent positions to to, you
know, my background. And, yeah.So I I would say we've been here

(50:57):
for such a long time. It's clearclearly something's going going
well.
Right?

You, can we see yourself coming back to the UK?

Yeah. That's a that's a question we get asked
now. You know, we've always saidyes at some point, and we've
never clearly never pulled thetrigger on that one. Yeah. And,
we don't have a plan.
Right? We we always we alwaysthink about it and talk about
it, but we haven't got anythingset in stone. I guess with the
kids growing up and and, youknow, families getting older and

(51:27):
so on, at some point, it'llbecome a perhaps more real
pressure. But, for the timebeing, we're very happy.

Enjoy it while you're there. Back to the quick

part of it.

TV or book?

Oh, TV. I'm quite bad at picking up a book and
reading it, although I should bebetter.

Thank you. Do you have a secret TV VICE trash TV
that you watch?

No. Not so much on TV. I'm I I think I'm drawn
into, you know, videos online.They're they're a complete waste
of time, but but, you know, mademe laugh quite a lot. So that's
probably my advice rather thanthan TV per se.
We we try and stay tuned intokind of British culture a little
bit in the TV we watch, I guess.Still watch Have I Got News For

(52:14):
You and We Can Get It and thesesort of things.

And children's TV, I presume. Some children's
TV.

Yep. Yeah. Although, you know, the Internet
and streaming services havechanged how that's watched
significantly as well. We have amuch better access to things
than when we were first here.Yeah.
Still watch still watch the oddMan City game and football game
as well.

I was gonna ask you, what's your football team?
So Man City, I think.

Yeah. Which which, you know, 30 plus years
ago when I chose to to supportthem, it was, a decision based
on the fact my brother mybrother was a United fan, so I
thought I'll go the other way.But, it was a terrible choice
for a while, but it's come goodfinally.

Don't go. I told him I'm a Man U fan.

Well, there you go. There's many Man U fans
around there.

We don't get I I started in the early eighties,
late seventies, early eighties,and there wasn't much success
around then either.

No. Well, I so I had to tolerate my brother for
for a long, long time underFerguson's, years. It was, like,
late eighties, nineties of, whenthey were phenomenally, of
course, but it's it's the tableshave turned, I'm glad to say.
Yeah.

Could be turning back again. I like to leave you
always an optimist. What's yourfavorite what's your favorite
film?

Woah. I love the Indiana Jones films, so I could
watch them infinitely, I think.So probably one of them. I kinda
wish one. Latest one.

You must have seen the latest one.

Yeah. The newer ones aren't as good, are they?
The, the old ones like Temple ofDoom, etcetera is, classics.

Okay. Favorite Christmas film?

I don't that's a good question.

Do you have fun to sit down with the family and
watch each year?

Yeah. So the yeah. I don't know if we've got
a a solid favorite. I alwaysremember Santa Claus the movie
with, probably, more and stufflike that. That was a classic
growing up.
Now we there there's a lot, thatwe watch now. Not sure if we
have a family favorite,actually. I think we've sort of
churn through them all.

Let's see as they get older, whether it becomes
one steady. Star Trek or StarWars?

Star Wars. Yeah. I know it was never a Trekkie.
It never got my attention,strangely. And I know people on
this podcast have saidotherwise, but, yeah, I never
captured my attention.

It it it's pretty, it's pretty 5050.

Oh, is it? Okay. Fair enough.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Star Wars, Star Trek is
pretty close. What's yourfavorite color?

I always say green. And when I think of it,
I'm thinking of British racinggreen, when I when I when I say
it as well.

See so why don't you go floristy?

Yes. Could've said that.

It's a bit bright, though, isn't it?
British racing green. I haven'theard of a fluorescent dye
called British racing green.

Quite like yellow as well, but that's probably
cycling related these days.Don't get to wear it ever.

Do you have any regrets at work? Oh,

no. I don't think so. I think in preparation for
this talking to you today, Ithought about that and thought
about, you know, what I'veenjoyed and not enjoyed. I think
I've enjoyed it all. I reallyreally have loved my job at many
different times and continue todo so, and and have hence

(55:38):
continued it and pursued pursuedmy interest.
And and, yeah, I don't I don'tthink I have regrets on it. I
think, it's still still good.

And it has you sent me a picture and you sent
me a few things. And one was amontage of lots and lots of
people in the community, notjust Global Biomagene, but all
around. And is that a TEDx talkas well?

Yeah. Yeah. 1 of the schools here hosted that. It
was a good, excitingopportunity. So I I yeah.
This slide sums up, I suppose,the teams that I've worked with
or the outreach and, educationaland training events we've done
as a as a team. And lots ofdiverse ones that right above
your head is we did an artexhibition using sort of

(56:23):
scientific images that we'vetaken on the microscopes, an art
gallery here in Singapore,giving talks and lectures at
different events, whether it'sbeen at sort of the science
center or in kind of moreinformal settings or these, you
know, like science cafes and soon. And then, some other people
like like Sarah, the over yourright shoulder, that's hosting a

(56:44):
school visit that came and andlooked around the facility. We
do quite a lot of this as asmuch as we can kind of outreach
initiatives as well as the sortof formal courses like top left
and, and so on. So, yeah, it's ait's a it's a it's a kind of
drive that we do that, but butit's always very enjoyable to
interact with people about aboutwhat we do.
We must spread the spread theword.

I should say thank you as well. Because like
to Sarah have been obviously toyour con different courses as
well. So that's quite nice toread that point.

Yeah. We often we've sent people to your the
the light microscopy summerschool just to I think when when
Sarah was new and she joined us,she really to get that kind of
grounding and education, whichstarts it for many of us. Right?
I think the attending a course,for me, it was years ago, Nick
arranged, Peter Evinert from theRMS to come to Edinburgh and to

(57:32):
teach, one of his microscopycourses, which I was looking to
attend, I think, as as anundergrad or maybe a summer
internship or something. And,that I think these these courses
are are going, you know, goingto get an education are
phenomenal for that.
I think it's also good. To getthis final.

Yeah. Not not just for learning the skills,
but learning how to teach aswell.

Yep. And get the passion for the subject. Right?
Like everyone that teaches onthese courses are they love it.
Right?
And they they infuse about itand they pass that on to the to
the students, for sure.

And, obviously, you you've named quite a few of
the people in here. So you alsosent a picture of, I just
thought I'd put it on justquickly. Lots of the people who
you work with over time, theteams that you're you're working
with.

Yeah. I've been really lucky to have some
fantastic colleagues captured inmany of these pictures. That
I've been fun to work with. Sayagain?

I love the 3 d glasses.

Yes. We attended a seminar, and someone gave out
3 d glasses to everyone in theaudience to watch their 3 d
movies, which I thought was a agood good delivery method. But,
yes, some superb colleaguesthere that that have been part
of my team formally or have beenassociated or linked to us, and
it makes it enjoyable, makes itfun, and there have been
phenomenal people doing theirtheir job, supporting the

(58:52):
microscopy, within Astar and andbeyond.

So we are nearly up to the hour. I've got a
couple of questions I reallywant to ask you. Have you had
when has been the mostchallenging time in your career?

That's a good question. Probably goes back
like, I can't think of achallenging time in terms of,
like, the, you know, the theworkload or well, maybe the
workload, but the, you know,anything specific. I think the
the combination of doing the MBAwhile doing a full time job
whilst having a baby wasprobably the most challenging
into because of physical and andexhaustion levels. But I as I

(59:34):
said, I really enjoy what I doand have have done. I've been
very, very lucky in that regard.
But so I haven't had any realkind of, oh, that was a really
tough tough period of time. I'veI've sort of generally, had
quite a good time doing it.

If you could do any job for a day, not in
Science Lab, what job would youfancy trying? Yeah. You look at
only different jobs out there inthe world. Is there anyone you
think, oh, I really wish I couldjust sample it for a day or a
week just to get to know whatit's like?

Graham Wright (01:00:05):
I reckon being being a cameraman for, the
latest David Attenboroughdocumentary, whatever that may
be, would be superb or orprobably one of the underwater
ones by by choice on Blue Planetor something. So I I when we
were first here, we did a lot ofdiving, and there's some
phenomenal places to scuba divearound this part of the world.

(01:00:26):
But, yeah, taking it to thatlevel would be incredible. I
think that'd be that'd be a funfun few days out.

Peter O'Toole (01:00:35):
That's different one to others. I've had that's
quite yeah. Cool job to to.What's your favorite conference?

Oh, good one. I think ELMI is is a fantastic
conference, the European LightMicroscopy Initiative, both for
the science, for the access tothe instrumentation, for the for
the core facilities, satelliteday. There's a lot to be said
for it and the commuteobviously, the community that
that attends these meetings. Iused to go quite religiously,

(01:01:06):
like, annually to make a tripover to Europe to do to attend,
and and it was, quite less sonow, but we we've discussed that
a little bit. So that's that tome, that's always been a great
meeting, and I would recommendall kinda, like, microscopists
do so even if their place islimited as soon as we talked
about earlier.
The the other one is the the theGBI, the Global Biomaging ones,
the EOE. Again, similarly forthe the network is is

(01:01:29):
incredible. And it and also I'vebeen involved with it not since
the start, but for long enoughto see it really grow from
strength to strength as thesethese more countries have been
added. Whole new regions of theworld have kinda come into that
community. And I've I've beenlucky to lead one of the work
groups on career paths in thatand that, again, coordinating
and working with this, greatbunch of bunch of people has

(01:01:52):
been superb.

And that's nearly got a publication, has it not?

I hope hopefully, fingers crossed. It should be it
should be soon. And so we wepublished what we call the white
paper kinda internationalrecommendation, which is already
available, which is a very longform of the paper. But, yeah,
we've we've got it under reviewin the minute with, the Journal
of Microscopy. So we keep keepour fingers crossed.
That's all good. Yep.

First comments back are promising.

That's Yeah. Yeah. It's looking looking good.

As you'll see, by the time this goes live, who
knows? It could actually beimpressed, which would be kinda
cool. And one final question. Inscience, is there anything you
would change in the way thatscience works or within science?

I've never thought about that. What would I
change? I think I think the thethe best bits or the most
enjoyable bits of sciencescience to to see and do or be
involved with is is when whencollaborations are really kind
of productive. Right? That youcan see that 2 or more people
have come around the table andand, both got ideas and are

(01:02:57):
stimulating and bouncing offeach other.
So and and as actually, as a asa core facility, you can
sometimes facilitate that andintroduce people and kinda make
these things happen. That thatis always a a real pleasure and
a joy to watch. So if there wasmore of that, not that there is
a lack of collaboration inscience, but if there was more
of that, that would be great tosee. And and I suppose the

(01:03:21):
interdisciplinary side of it, asas I've been involved in at
times in in in my own work is isreally good as well when you can
really put 2 people who almostspeak a different language
scientifically together, and yetthey can be, you know, really,
really bound thrive off oneanother. I think that that's,
has not really changed, is it?
Sorry, Pete. But it's it'ssomething very No.

No. No. No. It is because I guess what you're
saying is more collaboration,less competition. Competition is
healthy, but as scientists,we're competing against time And
we don't need to compete againsteach other.
There's always that urgency toget results out. So the
competition is internal, to becompeting, repeating, and, yeah,

(01:04:03):
collaborating.

Yeah. I guess it wasn't I wasn't coming from that
angle necessarily about the theexpense of competition, but but
just I think I think that'swhere the magic happens a little
bit sometimes when whendifferent disciplines come
together or different, evenresearch groups. Right? There
can be really some valuablethings in there. And I think
with microscopy, you see thatwhether it's the physicists or
the bioinformaticians or the,you know, the, the data

(01:04:27):
scientists that you you get thismarrying of capabilities is is
is very good.

So on that note, Graham, I should say thank you.
And thank you for everyone who'swatched or listened. Please
subscribe. You know what? Idon't think anyone has name
dropped so many previous guests.
I I kept telling you, we hadStefan, we had Timo, we had
Kota, We had Jon Erickson. Wehad Jan Enenberg, and Keppler.
And I probably missed 1 or 2others that you've name dropped,
but there's loads to catch up onthe series. Graham, you've also

(01:04:56):
been so easy to talk to. Youkind of talked

your way through it.

It's just been really great. And I hope for
those listening, you understanda different career track and
some of the nuances and thepotential to develop a career.
Add to that, and I think you'veyou've I've I got lucky at your
you've seen obviously got verylucky at Astar and a very
supportive community within thatas well. So, Graham, thank you

(01:05:20):
very much.

Thank you very much. It's been an absolute
pleasure. Thanks.

Intro/Outro (01:05:24):
Thank you for listening to The Microscopists,
a Bite Size Bio podcastsponsored by Zeiss Microscopy.
To view all audio and videorecordings from this series,
please visitbitesizebio.comforward/v
dashmicroscopists.

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