May 2, 2024 • 61 mins
#73 — John Eriksson is the Director General of Euro-BioImaging. In this episode of The Microscopists, John joins Peter O’Toole to discuss how he fell in love with microscopy and shares some beautiful images from his early career. They also chat about his favorite cities, his liter of tea in the mornings, and Finnish hamburgers.
Watch or listen to all episodes of The Microscopists: http://themicroscopists.bitesizebio.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to The Microscopists, a bite sized bio
podcast hosted by Peter O'Toole,sponsored by Zeiss Microscopy.
Today on The Microscopists
Peter O'Toole (00:14):
Today on The Microscopists, I'm joined by
John Erickson from University ofTurku Turku and Euro Bio
Imaging. And he explains themoment he fell in love with
microscopy.
John Eriksson (00:23):
I was going with my samples. I've looked into the
microscope, it was like, wow.Looked into the microscope, it
was like, wow. Amazing. This is,you know, this is the reason.
Peter O'Toole (00:43):
Talks about his favorite cities.
John Eriksson (00:46):
I don't know if you've been to Chicago, but it's
such a cool place. It has jazz,a lot of music, classical music,
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, lotsof playhouses, a fantastic
place.
Peter O'Toole (01:02):
And doesn't hold back from sharing his caffeine
intake.
John Eriksson (01:06):
In the morning, minimum 1 liter of tea, then, 2
espressos, and then maybe, CokeZero or something. So that's my
sort of morning peak.
Peter O'Toole (01:22):
All in this episode of The Microvoscopists.
Hi. Welcome to The Microscopist.I'm Peter O'Toole. And on today,
I'm joined by John Ericsson,director general of Euro Bio
Imaging and professor of cellbiology, I think it is, John, at
Turku University.
How are you today, John?
John Eriksson (01:41):
Pretty good, Peter, and thanks a lot for the
invite. And I must saycongratulations to a great
podcast because we have manymembers in the team who are big
fan fans of of the podcast.
Peter O'Toole (01:54):
That's lovely to hear. Thank you. I you know, I
don't don't know where to starton this one. I'm gonna maybe
start. Director general is quitea grand name for, the Europe
Biogen side.
So what what does it entail?
John Eriksson (02:11):
So the the the title is is fancy. I agree. And
and I must say that the lookingback on my career and and your
nice invitation made me checkout a little bit. So why did I
become this and that? But onething when I was as an
(02:33):
undergraduate student, I I waspretty sure or especially now in
retrospective.
I could not imagine that one dayI would become director general
because the title itself is isquite pompous. Director general
is quite typical in in, EUcircumstances when you have an
(02:57):
organization which is big, oreven not so big, but that's
that's, the the title that isbeing used. Being, director
general in in my case means thatI'm responsible for an
organization, that has the ERICformat. And the ERIC format has
(03:21):
been, created by the commissionin order to enable this kind of,
international organizations towork a little bit easier in the
landscape of differentcountries. So we have a
jurisdiction which is making ourlife a little bit easier.
But, the, difference, forexample, with, university
(03:48):
department or something likethat institute that we are not
under the umbrella of any,organization, but we are
actually one could say that weare a special purpose company,
obviously, nonprofit. Andlegally, as director general,
I'm responsible for thatorganization. And then, of
(04:11):
course, I'm doing lots of otherthings, but but, that that is
maybe the indication of thetitle, in terms of, the EU
landscape that there's somebodywho is responsible.
Peter O'Toole (04:25):
So I I I think a really good question at this
point. You you did yourundergraduate. You've obviously
gone to be a very successfulacademic career. Why why even
want to be director general ofEurobio Magene? Because it's
it's quite a significant role.
It's not primary research perse. So what what was your
motivation to move into thatposition?
John Eriksson (04:48):
I think, as as it often is in life, and I think
you're familiar with that asmost of us who have a little bit
experience, behind us. Life isquite serendipitous. And, 10, 15
years ago, I could never haveimagined that that, there would
(05:09):
be this opportunity. But this,arose by many different factors,
and, one thing led to the other.And, I hope we can sort of
elucidate this process duringour discussion because,
actually, everything has isbased on something leading one
(05:35):
one thing leading to the necknext one.
But everything is rather random,rather serendipitous. And it was
not like I was aiming for beingdirector general 10, 15 years
ago. I had no no idea that thispossibility would, come to me
(05:57):
and, but it came, and and I tookthe opportunity. But I think it
may be better to come to thatpart of the story with a little
bit background.
Peter O'Toole (06:09):
So I I'm so I'm gonna go way back then. Way,
way, way back. Oh, by by theway, when you said it's, both of
us with a with a bit ofexperience behind us. I love the
way you subtly both called usold in that. That's that's quite
cool.
I thought I'll I'll I'll gonnakeep that one in my mind. If we
go back, I'm gonna take you backbefore you did your
(06:29):
undergraduate. I'm gonna takeyou back to when you were, I
don't know, 8, 10, 12 years ofage. Can you remember what the
first career was that youactually wanted to be? Whether
it be a footballer, a scientist,or an astronaut, or whatever it
was, can you remember the firstjob that you really fancies
being?
John Eriksson (06:48):
First job, chef.
Peter O'Toole (06:50):
Chef?
John Eriksson (06:51):
Yeah. I always liked making food, but I very
soon realized that that's a verytough job. When I became a
little bit older, a few yearsolder, I was interested in in in
a lot of things. So, I was crazyabout books and reading and so
(07:11):
forth. So, I dreamed about beingbecoming an author or a
journalist, and, actually, asan, in high school, I I was
working kind of a freelance fromtime to time in weekend editions
of a local newspaper.
So I I wrote pieces there, andand then I was in the fancy
(07:36):
editorial board of our schooljournal, which translates
something into the blurb. Mhmm.So but I was also very
interested in in naturalsciences and, and, also, biology
a lot, and and actually, I likedmicroscopes, which came into my
(08:01):
career much later, but I likethe microscopes of our school so
much. So, I offered to fix themand clean them and align them
all. They were very, very basic.
You know? This kind of, like, 19twenties, something something
like that that they have,recovered from some hospital or
(08:24):
something. But I had them athome over summer, and and I
thought it was very nice to havemicroscopes at home. So that,
then I went to to to university,and, I like too many things. So
biology, ecology, cell biology,chemistry, computer science.
(08:48):
So I I spent, I'm sure, at least2 more extra years, just reading
many things and so forth. So ittook me a while also to decide
what should I become, whatshould I make out of my life,
because I I like chemistry alot. I like psychology and but I
(09:09):
also loved physiology. So but,of course, the concept of being
on some research vessel somesomewhere, having a cold beer
and saving the world, that was,you know, coming from Jacques
Cousteau and those movies thatwere very popular in those days.
Peter O'Toole (09:29):
Did you ever get onto a a ship, a research ship?
John Eriksson (09:33):
I I actually worked, at the end of my
undergraduate studies. I worked,in a limnology project for a
while. And, again, by purechance that sort of served me a
PhD project, which took me rightinto cell biology and pure
(09:59):
chance again.
Peter O'Toole (10:01):
So so you did a PhD. So did you know when you
were a PhD student, do you wantto be an academic, or were you
just doing a PhD till youenjoyed research, or did you see
a different career ahead of youat that stage?
John Eriksson (10:15):
I was open for both academic and and also maybe
some other direction, evengovernmental. But maybe not so
much in the corporate area, sosomething like that. But I think
as I was learning things duringmy PhD, I got more and more
(10:36):
inspired by the academic life, Imust say.
Peter O'Toole (10:39):
So where where Satya, go go back. Where was
your undergraduate? Where isyour PhD?
John Eriksson (10:44):
So I did my undergraduate here in Turku, and
we have 2 universities here. Wehave University of Turku, and
then we have Abu DhabiUniversity, and I did it in the
latter. And now I've beenworking in both universities,
actually, as a professor in mycareer when I I be be had the
(11:06):
chance of becoming a professor.Have you been in Turkey all your
life? Or No.
So, I'd I've been here as aundergraduate and graduate
student, then I went to Chicagofor almost 4 years, then I came
back. And, but then when,working in Turco, I've been
(11:29):
living between, 3 or 4 blocks,so very very local person.
Peter O'Toole (11:37):
How was that? So what did you what was the move
for Chicago? What stage wasthat? Was that postdoctoral or
first
John Eriksson (11:42):
postdoc. That was postdoc.
Peter O'Toole (11:45):
How did you find that move?
John Eriksson (11:48):
I must say, Chicago was was super nice. It
was really, really, an excellentmove. It was an excellent
choice. And and, again, thechoice was a lot of fun, in
terms of of how it came around.So I can go a little bit back
(12:12):
before I go to Chicago becausethe, the story behind that is is
related to to my topic.
And the, I can define almost bythe day when I saw the light in
terms of microscopy. So thiswas, somewhere in in 1987 or
(12:36):
something. So I'll go back tothe limnology part a little bit.
So the, I was an undergraduatestudent, finishing up my,
master's thesis. Everybody isdoing a master's here, which was
on fish physiology, but then, Itook a job, to collect samples
(13:00):
in a limnology project, and Igot quite inspired, and maybe
that this would be my future.
We were working on on waterreservoirs in on the Holland
Islands, which are between,Finland and Sweden, and they
were heavily, heavily, pollutedwith, cyanobacteria, blue green
(13:23):
algae. Lots of dead birds andfish dead fish in the summer.
That's not nice to have in thein a water reservoir. And I
realized that, there was dataon, toxic algae from way back in
the 1800. The first, paper inNature, 18 something.
(13:49):
I don't remember. 70, maybe. Andthen but I also realized that
the toxins there were notcharacterized at all in those
days. So I was discussing withmy mentor who is a limnologist
that perhaps I'm more interestedin moving into this area of
(14:12):
toxin research, and, so it came,the opportunity of of changing
direction a little bit. And wewrote wrote grants, and we got
grants.
And and, of course, the topic,was quite easy to get grants on
because, water reservoirs areobviously of interest. So cut
(14:34):
the long story short, I managedto isolate these peptides, and
there were other groups alsoworking on on this topic, in the
world and many reports camealong approximately at the same
time. These were cyclicpeptides. And you may know that,
you know, cyclic peptides are,it's a peculiar type of peptide.
(14:59):
It's a very stable because ofthe cyclic form.
And, and they have a usually analteration with d and l, type
of, amino acids. And, thesepeptides were super cool,
because, chemically, I had astrong chem chemistry
(15:20):
background, so I spent at leasta year just on the chemistry and
and isolating this. But then itturned out that these are super
toxins. So they're they'reamazingly powerful. So LD 50 is
in the order of of 50 microgram,meaning meaning that you put 1
(15:40):
microgram in a mouse, and itwill die.
So the first experiments we did,we put the mice to sleep,
injected the, the toxin, and theliver explodes. I mean,
literally, so they die byinternal bleeding. So they're
they're very soon it becameobvious that, this is liver
(16:01):
specific, and that was becauseof a transport mechanism that,
the liver cells has bile acid,transport, which is a root for
many toxins, actually. So then Iwent ahead trying to figure out
what is the background, and Itested all the possible, or all
(16:25):
the possibilities in terms of,molecular toxicology that were
around in those days withcalcium metabolism, redox
states, ion transport, butnothing. They were alive.
The cells, nothing happened tothe cells in terms of trypan
(16:47):
blue uptake and so forth. Andthen comes this, moment of
light. And that was sort oftriggering my pathway into
microscopy. So somebody told methat, at some stage, we can have
a look on the on the pictures,but, somebody told me that, why
(17:09):
don't the cells are lookingquite wrinkled, when when you
look in the microscope thatthere is this, compound,
phalloidin, which is rhodaminelabeled. Why don't you stain the
cells with that?
And I realized that follow thelabeling was super easy, I mean,
(17:34):
also currently, it's it's veryeasy be compared to many
antibodies, because it's it'salways working if you don't
screw up. And we had onereasonable microscope in the
building. It had a 40 x lens,epifluorescence microscope. And
I was going with my samples.I've never done a fluorescence
(17:58):
microscopy before.
I was going there, and firsttime I looked into the
microscope, it was like, wow.Amazing. This is, you know, this
is the reason. There'severything that is happening in
the liver is because thecytoskeleton is completely
(18:20):
screwed up. So that made me atrue believer in microscopies
that one should always check-inthe microscope.
That's the first thing you do,and you use all the basic stuff,
that is around, and then youwill always get lots of
information.
Peter O'Toole (18:38):
John, do you still have those images, those
first images?
John Eriksson (18:45):
So because of your invitation, I was looking
in my old old cabinets, and Ifound the first pictures that I
took with with those that Imentioned.
Peter O'Toole (18:58):
They do. I can't do it. Not this one?
John Eriksson (19:02):
Nope. Nope. It's a it's, the first pictures, they
were 2 round cells. Yeah. Andthat that's, that's, the next
next one.
2. Yeah. There we are. So Idon't know if you've ever worked
(19:24):
with liver cells, but you canwork with isolated liver cells.
You perfuse the liver withcollagenase and first flush with
EGTA.
So you snap up the desmosomesand then collagenase, and then,
the liver cells are released.And then you can work with them
(19:45):
for a day approximately.They're, of course, in the
suspension, so they they're notunder the normal conditions. But
this is how at the left side,this is how the, microfilaments
would look like. They're sort ofcortically distributed, no
stress fibers, nothing likethat.
Peter O'Toole (20:04):
They're nicely structured around the sense of
the Yeah. Membrane itself.
John Eriksson (20:09):
Yeah. So that's one liver cell. And then the one
on the right hand side istreated with microcystin, which
is the toxin. So nanomolarlevels and the microfilaments
are completely moved, to onepart of the cell.
Peter O'Toole (20:32):
You know what's fascinating? For those that are
listening, you got an an an anice image which looks a bit
like the sun with a bright edgeto it, and then you've got
another cell where, actually,all that intensity is bunched up
together and bulging down to oneside. It isn't just disrupted,
but it's also relocated to thewhole change of distribution.
(20:52):
And it I kind of expected whenyou were talking about it for
the distribution to sort of justbecome loose and just just stop
binding. Actually, no.
It seems to have almostaggregated into a mass. Is that
what happened?
John Eriksson (21:04):
Yeah. So, that that is a long story, but that's
my story the story of my PhD. Sofirst of all, I realized that
that this is a cytoskeletalelement or event. And the reason
why the liver explodes is thatthe cells cannot keep themselves
together anymore because all theinteractions, obviously, will be
(21:26):
destroyed. At that time, I I wasnot super proficient with with,
the cytoskeleton, but the, I Ithought that, okay, I discovered
phalloidin or cytocalicine orsomething, cytoskeletal
disruptor.
So I went to Una Lindbergh's labin in Stockholm. They were, very
(21:52):
good with microfilaments, and II was hoping that that we could
show that, okay, microfilamentsare being aggregated or
polymerization is disturbed.Nothing. Absolutely no. So, then
we could actually have a look onthe, electron micrographs if
(22:17):
that where they're yeah.
So micrographs that I, I wascollaborating with a group in in
Dundee.
Peter O'Toole (22:28):
So a great looking tennis ball, for one
healthy cell, and then actuallyquite a smooth surface, but a
very, very, what would be theword? This is is is it is just
bulging everywhere, isn't it?
John Eriksson (22:42):
Yeah. It's always collected, this rosette of blebs
at one part of the cell, andthat's where you have the actin
cytoskeleton. And there's atransmission EM also. Yeah.
There we are.
Peter O'Toole (22:57):
Oh, that just makes it look like my head's
exploding. Yeah.
John Eriksson (23:01):
So you can see the ring there, and that's the
actin ring that we were lookingat in the fluorescence.
Peter O'Toole (23:07):
That's okay. So that's 3 different, microscopy
technologies coming togetherjust to resolve the one
question. Yeah.
John Eriksson (23:17):
And all of this got me completely hooked on
microscopy because as you canrealize as you're you're a
microscopist, to get thesepictures, I've stayed quite a
few hours in in, different darkrooms, listening to various
music, and I'm completely hookedto that kind of working
environment and and also primed,I guess.
Peter O'Toole (23:40):
I don't how often do you get on a microscope now?
John Eriksson (23:44):
Last time in 2014. So a little bit
depressing, I must say.
Peter O'Toole (23:52):
I I I was I was yes. Do you remember what the
what your first fluorescencemicroscope was?
John Eriksson (23:58):
So that's that's a I like a microscope, if,
advertising is okay here. But,we used I mean, afterwards, we
have almost all the major brandshere, but I don't remember the
the actual model, but it was avery basic model. And but
Peter O'Toole (24:20):
What about VMs? What about TM and SEM? Do you
remember what they were?
John Eriksson (24:25):
So the, the SEM was gel, 1200. What? Yeah. 1200.
And that, the transmission was,a very basic deal.
Peter O'Toole (24:39):
Mhmm.
John Eriksson (24:39):
And I'd maybe no. I wouldn't say the number, but
really basic. Yeah. But givingpretty good pictures, I must
say.
Peter O'Toole (24:50):
No. I certainly remember my first microscope
since but I'd I'd I'd be hardpushed to say what my favorite
was, like, over the time becausebecause you got a soft spot for
most, I think. Yeah. Goingthrough.
John Eriksson (25:03):
And they are so great machines, and this
nowadays, they are amazing. Butthey were amazing in those days
also. A little bit more tricky,but but, finicky and but great
machines.
Peter O'Toole (25:15):
So why Chicago?
John Eriksson (25:17):
Okay. So now we come to the mechanism. What
happened with this, thesestructures. So the whole basis
of of this, this cytoskeletaldisruption is that, we
discovered that the microcystinacts as a phosphatase inhibitor.
(25:43):
So you may be familiar withochodac acid and caliculin,
which are inhibiting type 1 andtype 2a phosphatases.
And, the reason for thecytoskeletal disruption is
inhibition of proteinphosphatases. And as we now
(26:04):
know, you know, the balance ofany phospholiation event is the
balance between the kinaseactivity and the phosphat
phosphatase activity. And here,you shut off the phosphatases
altogether, and the cytoskeletongets completely screwed up.
Peter O'Toole (26:24):
Mhmm. And
John Eriksson (26:25):
and to me, that was a revelation because I
always thought of,phosphorylation events as, you
know, a little bit static. Sothe kinase is activated.
Something is moved into anotherdirection, and the then the
phosphatase takes back. But Irealized that that the
(26:46):
cytoskeleton is then much moreof, like, a helicopter that is
balanced by these activeactivities, and it, then you
move the joysticks of the cell,and things will move in
different directions. The whenwe were doing and we were
labeling with, p 32 phosphate,we realized that, intermediate
(27:08):
filaments, the keratins in inliver cells, the keratin 8 and
18 are the specific intermediatefilaments of liver cells.
And, then I decided to do mypostdoc on intermediate
filaments because, I was curiousabout intermediate filaments.
(27:32):
They were much less known than,microfilaments and microtubule.
And there was I got an interviewwith with Bob Goldman who worked
at, and still works atNorthwestern University. And I
got an interview, and, then Idecided to go to Chicago. And
(27:55):
that was a a fantastic decision.
Peter O'Toole (27:58):
So how how, were you daunted by the thought of it
to start with? Just excited? Howhow are you how is your sort of
personal feelings about leavingFindham to go to quite a
different culture over in NewYork.
John Eriksson (28:15):
I had no problem. I had absolutely no problem. I
was just like my future wife. Wewere adventurous. We just we had
a few interviews in the UnitedStates.
We went there, interviewing, andI was actually interviewing
supposed to interview with BobGoldman, but he had screwed up
(28:39):
his calendar. So, I was there.He was not there, and I thought
that, okay, forget about thisguy. I will not I will take the
other offer I had in Princeton.But then he he called me up a
little bit later and said, John,why aren't you not here?
(29:00):
You should be on an interview. Iwill and then I said, I was
there 2 weeks ago, but you werenot there. And and he said
that's okay. Sorry about that.My secretary screwed up my
calendar.
He always put the blame Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (29:14):
Blame someone else.
John Eriksson (29:17):
And then I went for another interview, and and
we got along very well. And, Idecided to go there. And I don't
know if you've been to Chicago,but it's such a cool place. It
has, jazz, a lot of music,classical music, Chicago
Symphony Orchestra, lots ofplayhouses, a fantastic place.
(29:40):
And and the science is great.
So we have both University ofChicago and and Northwestern
University, lots of differentopportunities. I was completely
take blown away by this city andand everything else. And, of
course, I had been working undervery, sort of limited
(30:02):
circumstances, and suddenly, I'mmoving in this very
international environment, andyou realize that that you're a
very small fish in a big sea,which is humbling and nice,
because it gives youperspective. And the lab was
also great, wonderful people,wonderful colleagues, super
(30:26):
helpful. There were people whotaught me so much in protein
chemistry, and and, of course,cell biology in terms of
instrumentation compared to theone old Leica I had.
Bob Goldman had everything thatyou could have in those days. So
(30:48):
and he got one of the firstconfocal microscopes. So that
was a size microscope if I ifI'm not mistaken. And so, I got
to see confocal microscope veryearly on. And, also, thanks to,
this postdoc, I was staying 2summers at the Woods Hole Marine
(31:11):
Biological Laboratory, which youmay have Yeah.
So, there there are also manymany famous scientists, to be,
you know, going out for a bearwith and and, going for quite
amazing parties when the salescycle was being drawn on the
(31:33):
beach because Tim Hunt wasthere. And then, there was
Shinya Inouye, who is, ofcourse, absolutely amazing. So
lots of amazing people, lots ofamazing instruments, and and
skinny dipping among,fluorescent algae and what have
you.
Peter O'Toole (31:53):
And did you say you went over with your wife to
be at the time?
John Eriksson (31:57):
Yes.
Peter O'Toole (31:57):
And what what was did did she find a job over
there as well? Was she alsostudying?
John Eriksson (32:01):
So my wife, is is a molecular biologist, and
molecular geneticist, and sheworked, with Rick Morimoto, in
in, in the Evanston campus ofNorthwestern University. So I
worked at the medical schooldowntown. And, Rick Morimoto is
(32:25):
a stress biologist, so he hasbeen working and one of the
founding fathers of of thestress response. And, and my
wife is still working with thestress response just like I'm
still working with with theintermediate filaments.
Peter O'Toole (32:43):
That's kinda cool. So then you went back to
fit why do you do you alwaysthink you'd go back home?
John Eriksson (32:51):
I think we were both tempted to stay, but then
in terms of of family and soforth, life may be easier here
in Scandinavia. Having a familyin in the US, we felt that it's
quite challenging, but we weretempted to stay. And but we got
(33:11):
a nice offer, both of us at thesame time, at so a place which
is here in the same buildingwhere I'm now, which is called
Turco Bioscience Center. Andthat was a rather visionary
place because it was a corefacility for both universities.
And, it the idea was to combineboth research and core
(33:35):
facilities in the same,department.
And it's it's a big success.More than 200 people working
there now, and and that was thewhole place was the basis of of
core facility activities here inin Turku. And quite early on,
before open access was reallywell defined.
Peter O'Toole (33:57):
Yeah. So
John Eriksson (33:58):
we we got positions there and, and I I got
a position as a cell biologist,which meant that, I should set
up all the instruments, neededfor cell biology. At the time,
there was, an old Nikon reallycrappy, and and, the change was
(34:23):
pretty depressing, you know,coming from
Peter O'Toole (34:26):
I'd like to wonder what it'd be like going
from a very extremely wellresourced lab back to, you know,
not everywhere can be like that,can it?
John Eriksson (34:38):
No. And and, of course, that was my task to
build up, a facility that waswell equipped, but but, we came
in right after the building wasfinished. So my lab didn't even
have a sink. So that was it tooksome time to set up everything.
Peter O'Toole (34:58):
So what out out of your career today, what what
would you say has been thehardest time? What's been the
most difficult time?
John Eriksson (35:08):
So then I was working at Turco Bioscience
Center for a few years, and thatwas fun. We managed to also to
pull in quite a lot of funding,for for the instruments, but
then I, of course, had to applyfor professorships. I became
professor, professor in sology,actually, at University of
Turku, in 1998, and that was ateaching position. So I was, of
(35:33):
course, allowed to do researchand so forth and even supposed
to do that. But, the contacthours were more than 22100 or
easily 250 hours per year.
So that was so much. And then Iwas, in the matriculation
examination board of Finland,which means the, the general
(35:58):
examination after high schoolfor everybody. And I was also,
in the committee evaluating thehigh school students, you know,
their papers. So I got, 4000papers every Easter. And that
was it was, like, crazy.
So and then I I was running alab and doing all kinds of
(36:23):
things, and, also, I was quiteactive in terms of of campus
administration, and we had smallkids. And and, this the nights
were very, very short. So so, II think I looked pretty crappy
at times.
Peter O'Toole (36:44):
So how how did you pull yourself back from
that?
John Eriksson (36:47):
So then 2,006, there was a an opportunity to
get another professorship whichwas much more attractive, And
that was, at the same time, Ibecame head of cell biology,
head of department. I got anice, startup package, really
(37:08):
nice. And so 100 100 of 1,000 ofeuros, and I, put all of that
into microscopes. And, I wasteaming up with Peck Kahanninen,
who was, who is still here, thedean of the medical faculty. And
(37:28):
together, we we bought, LeicaMetrix, s p 8, and then we also
bought an s p 8 stead.
And so with that, Turku suddenlybecame quite strong in Finland.
And we we became wellrecognized. And, and, also, at
(37:52):
that time, we we did a a kind ofcoordination thing, which was a
good idea. So we were thinkingwith a few people here that how
could we make stronger withouttaking away anything from
anybody else. So the way wewould think about what are our
(38:15):
real strongholds.
And microscopy was 1 because,Stefan Heller was working here
at the time, actually, when Iwas recruited back. And so we
had, this tradition, and then wehave have also still, one of
the, biggest pet centers inEurope. So we, decided to
(38:37):
combine this stronghold in in aregional organization, which was
really a virtual organization tobegin with, Torco
Bioengineering. And, TorcoBioengineering took in
everything from, microscopy tomolecular analysis to, even
(38:58):
clinical imaging. And so ourmotto was from, from atoms to
anatomy.
And that's a very similar mottoas as in neurobiology, which we,
of course, didn't know about inthese days. So that that
organization started with half acoordinator, and it was
(39:23):
amazingly successful. Weimmediately became much more
successful in terms of funding.We got the national coordination
of imaging in Finland. Thanks tothe national coordination, there
there's a organization called,BioCentre Finland, which is for
infrastructures.
(39:45):
And I became the coordinator inthat organization of imaging,
and we got a big chunk offunding, not only for Turku, but
for for Finland, for, Turku,Helsinki, Corpio, Tampere, and
Oulu, to improve imaging. Andthat became the the sort of
(40:09):
start of of the national,imaging organization. This
brings me to Eurobangingbecause, there was no national
1800 imaging in Finland. And soif if people were looking for
somebody who would becoordinating, Finnish imaging,
(40:33):
it would be my number. Andthat's how I got to know Jan
Ellenberg, who you have had onon on your podcast, and he had a
very nice and also, AnttiKepler, who is currently
nowadays, my colleague, wastelling about the history and
(40:54):
the early beginnings of ofEurobanging.
But I, quite early on, I gotengaged with with, Eurobanging,
which was a project in thosedays, for ice European project.
And there were 2 preparatoryphases, before the organization,
(41:14):
came to reality. So in thosedays, I was coordinating the
soon to be finished, Eurobangingnode. And then, thanks to that,
I've got to be on theEurobanging board, and then, you
know, things were moving alongslowly. But that took quite a
(41:39):
long time before theorganization came into a reality
and and some parts of the,process were were quite slow.
But, to cut a long story really,really short, it it wasn't
decided to be in the beginning,to be a 3 partite, hub or
(42:03):
headquarters. But, due toseveral political circumstances,
there were there was nobody whowould take the seat, and see it
is the legal body. And, becauseof these circumstances, Finland
came into the picture, andFinland is often, a nice place
(42:25):
to have this kind of legalbodies because Finland is
considered to be neutral andharmless. And and then, now we
have a 3 part at headquarterswith the SEAT, the legal
organization being in in Turku,and then we have biological
imaging in Heidelberg, in EMBL,and Antti Kepler is the director
(42:49):
there. And then we have, medicalimaging in Torino where we have
Linda Chaban.
Wonderful colleagues. Both bothof them, absolutely amazing
colleagues, and, and then alsowe have a wonderful team. But I
was keeping a little bit ofhistory there.
Peter O'Toole (43:08):
No. It's okay. I I I'm gonna ask you a quick one.
Do you regret any of the steps?
John Eriksson (43:22):
Well, I don't know. I don't think I regret
anything. So I was dabbling withquite a few I was dabbling with
quite a few things in thebeginning, you know, as an
undergraduate student. So Icould maybe have done a little
bit fewer, but, you know, it'sokay. Yeah.
(43:42):
No. I well,
Peter O'Toole (43:43):
I think that's probably giving you the breadth
that's probably helped as you asyou've gone forward. I asked
what you wanted to be when youattend. You sort of said a chef,
and then you saw your career,and we've heard other careers,
serendipitously, got you towhere you are today. If you
could do any job in the worldfor a day or a week just to see
(44:03):
what it's like, Is there a jobthat you'd just like to go and
sample? Doesn't have to beinside.
It could be any type of job.What would you like to do for a
day or a week?
John Eriksson (44:17):
I don't know. I would be a scientist. I know
it's a boring answer, but, youknow, I'm I'm quite a die hard
now.
Peter O'Toole (44:29):
That's that's okay. Yep. Okay. Where would you
choose? If you could go anywherein the world and practice your
science for 6 months, wherewould you go?
John Eriksson (44:42):
That's a hard one because there are so wonderful
places around the world nowadayscompared to when I was younger,
and also, I guess, when you'remuch younger than I am, but even
when you were in your earlycareer, I don't know the, you
(45:03):
know, the there are severalplaces in the United States.
And, maybe going into the Bostonarea would be very really cool,
but also London would be nice.
Peter O'Toole (45:22):
John. John. John. York is so much better than
London.
John Eriksson (45:26):
Okay. Okay.
Peter O'Toole (45:28):
If you're gonna come to the UK, go do York. It's
obvious. So quick fire questionsfor me. Are you an early bird or
a night owl?
John Eriksson (45:39):
Sorry.
Peter O'Toole (45:40):
Are you an early bird or a night owl?
John Eriksson (45:42):
I'm really a night owl. But but now I'm often
forced to be an early bird. Sothat that's that's, that's a
little bit of a clash there.
Peter O'Toole (45:55):
PC or Mac? PC. McDonald's or Burger King?
John Eriksson (46:03):
There's a Finnish company called Hasburger.
Peter O'Toole (46:07):
Okay. Good answer. Chicago or Turkey?
John Eriksson (46:13):
I would take turns because I consider that
I'm you know, both cities are myhometowns. So, you know, for
several years, I I I washomesick for cigar Chicago,
especially in the fall. Youknow? Chicago fall is beautiful.
Peter O'Toole (46:33):
I've got I've got to say, I can see why you're
director general. These arepolitically very nice ants.
You're not alienating anyone.Tea or coffee?
John Eriksson (46:44):
Both. Enormous quantities.
Peter O'Toole (46:47):
Tea or coffee?
John Eriksson (46:48):
I'm I'm so addicted to caffeine. So do you
you know, Johann Sebastian Bach,he has a a contact, a coral for
coffee. And I understand why.Because, you know, that's a
magic potion right there. In themorning, minimum 1 liter of tea,
(47:16):
then, 2 espressos, and thenmaybe, Coke Zero or something.
So that's my sort of morningpeak. But then I can manage
quite a long time for that withthat.
Peter O'Toole (47:30):
Okay. Be able why?
John Eriksson (47:34):
Again, I must say, I'm not trying to be
politically correct, but I likeboth.
Peter O'Toole (47:40):
Anything. Anything.
John Eriksson (47:42):
Any I I I'm not so into hard liquor, but but, I
really like beer, especiallynowadays when you have all these
nice microbreweries and soforth. Okay. But, of course, a a
wonderful glass of wine.
Peter O'Toole (47:57):
Metal white. It's
John Eriksson (47:58):
good. White. And that's maybe because I like red
wine also, but but if if I'm alittle little excited or
stressed, then, red wine givesme stomach problems.
Peter O'Toole (48:15):
Okay. Chocolate or cheese?
John Eriksson (48:17):
What was the first one?
Peter O'Toole (48:19):
Chocolate or cheese?
John Eriksson (48:23):
I like cheese a lot and chocolate, at times, but
maybe I would put cheese first.
Peter O'Toole (48:32):
Okay. And what is your, so you're a chef. What is
your favorite food to eat, firstoff?
John Eriksson (48:39):
Oh, gosh. These questions are hard because it
all depends on on the occasionand the season. I like I like
Italian food a lot. But Okay.But, like, right now, here in
Finland, it's time for if youknow this.
Peter O'Toole (49:00):
No. No.
John Eriksson (49:01):
And then this Russian pancakes made of
buckwheat, and you eat thosewith fish roe and pickled
cucumbers and stuff. It's great.
Peter O'Toole (49:13):
Okay. Do do you have a a least favorite food?
John Eriksson (49:18):
If I have an elite baby.
Peter O'Toole (49:20):
Least. Least. What is what is there any food
you don't particularly like? Oh,
John Eriksson (49:27):
there are a few, but but I'm well, you know,
there are, I'm sure, challengingfoods that I couldn't take, but
I I can take take most things.
Peter O'Toole (49:38):
Okay. I think I know this answer from what you
said earlier, but TV or book?
John Eriksson (49:47):
Well, I I get to see TV rarely. I like movies,
old movies and and classicalmovies. And some of the new TV
series are amazing, I mustadmit.
Peter O'Toole (50:02):
So so what what's been your latest TV series?
John Eriksson (50:06):
Babylon Berlin. Okay. And Right. Check it out.
But, I'm warning.
It's seriously addictive.
Peter O'Toole (50:18):
Sounds good. And what what's your favorite film
then?
John Eriksson (50:23):
That would be Citizen Kane and Casablanca.
Peter O'Toole (50:28):
Two good films. And what about a favorite
Christmas film?
John Eriksson (50:34):
A beautiful what is that? A Beautiful Year. Well,
you know the the movie.
Peter O'Toole (50:41):
I don't, but I will find it.
John Eriksson (50:43):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (50:44):
And, if you had to choose between 1 Star Trek
John Eriksson (50:47):
A beautiful life.
Peter O'Toole (50:49):
A Beautiful Life. A Wonderful Life.
John Eriksson (50:51):
Wonderful Life. There you go. Yes.
Peter O'Toole (50:53):
Yep. Nope. I'm there. Star Trek or Star Wars?
John Eriksson (50:57):
I I never, I they came in a period when when I was
so immersed in in studies andother things, so I didn't watch
them.
Peter O'Toole (51:09):
Oh, so neither on that?
John Eriksson (51:10):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (51:11):
Basic color?
John Eriksson (51:14):
Kind of bluish. Bluish? Yep.
Peter O'Toole (51:18):
See, why didn't you just say dappy?
John Eriksson (51:24):
I don't know if it would be Dappy, though. Maybe
her maybe Herx'd rather.
Peter O'Toole (51:30):
Oh, 33342. Yes. What what other hobbies do you
have? You you sent me a pictureactually of, actually, this just
makes it look like I've gotloads of hair and I bit like a a
bear wolf. But is is this yourpet dog?
John Eriksson (51:47):
That's our, Lapland shepherd.
Peter O'Toole (51:50):
Mhmm.
John Eriksson (51:51):
And, there's a story around that. But the,
apart from this guy, hobbies,I'm an all year biker, which in
Finnish conditions can be quitechallenges challenging, but I
really like biking. I read a Itry to read. I play squash every
(52:16):
Monday at 5 o'clock, since 1983or something. And then movies
and stuff.
But, as scientists, we we don'thave so much time for hobbies.
But, the guy there at the back,he's my mentor. So as you can
(52:44):
realize from my small history,I've been director for quite a
few years. So I was first chairof the department, and then
actually in 2016, I became chairor head of the Turku Bioscience
Center. And as that that is abig place with with a big,
(53:08):
budget and more than 200 people,it was really challenging
because I was interim directorat Eurobanging, part of the same
time.
And then I became director ofEurobanging. And being a
director is is really fun also,and it's very rewarding because
(53:30):
you can you realize that you cando things and change change
things. So that's my, you know,driving force. But it can be,
sometimes the blues hits you bigtime, because of funding
circumstances or you have some,fight with some colleague or
something. And, of course, withbig institutions, you always
(53:55):
have conflicts, and that'sthat's the name of the game.
But this guy is teaching me thebasic truth. You know? Every
morning, he gets up and alwayshappy. Okay. Let's go out.
Life is good. And so so, that'sa simple advice, and it's a
(54:19):
great advice.
Peter O'Toole (54:21):
That is that is super cool, actually, here.
Guys, it's not quick firequestion, but what's your
favorite conference?
John Eriksson (54:32):
The Gordon conference on intermediate
filaments.
Peter O'Toole (54:35):
That's your favorite conference. Okay.
John Eriksson (54:37):
And That that's And and also
Peter O'Toole (54:40):
Go on.
John Eriksson (54:41):
Yes. Well, I haven't been on so many Elmi
conferences, but Elmi is supercool,
Peter O'Toole (54:49):
which, of course, you hosted.
John Eriksson (54:51):
Oh. And 2,
Peter O'Toole (54:53):
2 years ago?
John Eriksson (54:55):
Not last year, but the year before.
Peter O'Toole (54:57):
Yeah. 2 years ago. Only it seems really
recent, though. It was anexcellent tell me as well. Well
done on hosting that.
It was a great location. Love tosee Turkey. That was that was
great.
John Eriksson (55:08):
Yeah. And, also, previous year, these 2, because
we have been coming out ofCOVID, they were absolutely
fantastic.
Peter O'Toole (55:17):
So we've asked about the the hard times and
that those those difficulties.You just alluded to there that
the the the politics, andeverything else. With your
current role, with Euro BioImaging, are there still a lot
of politics to to navigate, oris it now much easier sailing? I
know you've listened to Jan. Itwas terribly awful actually,
(55:39):
awfully political.
But have things now got better,or are the politics still
something you have to navigate?
John Eriksson (55:49):
In big international organizations, you
always have the politicalaspect, but it's it's completely
different. So that time that Janwas describing and and he and
other people, including Antia,who was aboard, there, did a
great job. But those times werereally challenging. Now, when we
(56:14):
the organization was formallyaccepted as a European
organization that was at theturn of the year 2019, 2020. We
didn't realize, how tough it wasjust to set up an organization.
But, politically, it was not sotough anymore. It was the board
(56:38):
meetings were getting much moreeasy. They're not we always the
the board is, of course, owningus, the member states. So the
board meetings are alwaysexciting. But once we got
through the period, and that'sour first 5 year period of
establishing the organization,all kinds of recruitment,
(57:01):
setting up systems.
Now we're in our next phase. Sogoing from build up to strategic
development. It's completelydifferent. We have an amazing
situation. I I must say, I'msort of mesmerized each morning.
We we are well resourced. Wehave a fantastic node community.
(57:23):
We have a 9 191 sites aroundEurope. I cannot imagine that
anybody of us here in the hubwill have a chance to meet to to
go to all of these places, butit's an it's an unbelievably
nice community. And I see thatwe can do miracles in the in the
(57:46):
next few years.
Also, because we have we startto learn what we really can do.
So we can do things that werecompletely beyond our
imaginations when when we werein the preparatory phase. So so
now as we say, sometimes in the,in the virtual, pub, which we
(58:10):
have every Friday, which is acommunity meeting that we
sometimes say that, you know,the, the sky is the limit, but
not the resolution. And that'sthat's how I feel the the future
of Eurobanging.
Peter O'Toole (58:25):
And, we are really close to the hour now
already. So I have to ask you,this is interesting question.
When you retire, will you carryon going into a lab? Or will you
when you retire, will you enjoya bit more squash, cycling, and
shifting at home?
John Eriksson (58:46):
So I I hope to do science still when I'm retired,
but, of course, I, I will shiftfocus also a little bit and do
things that I haven't donebefore, or haven't had time to
do. That's for sure, but Ihaven't thought so much about
that.
Peter O'Toole (59:04):
So plenty of time still. It's just an interesting
question. There's no way to findit. Some people and go. Yeah.
Others like to stay inregardless, and it's Yeah.
John Eriksson (59:17):
I have I have a hard time envisioning myself,
you know, just closing the doorsaying, bye bye. This is it.
Peter O'Toole (59:27):
That'll be different. And do you see Euro
BioMeeting and GlobalBioMeeting? Is there any
potential one day that they willmerge and it will just become
glow Euro BioMaging withinGlobal BioMaging?
John Eriksson (59:38):
Well, they are sort of sister. Global Biomg is
a project. Eurobanging is anorganization. But if we call
them projects, they are sisterprojects. And and how that will
develop in the future, I thinkit's it's for us to see.
(59:59):
Obviously, Antia is there,leading that, the global bi
imaging and part of the teammembers are very active there,
and then they the global biimaging also also has its own
team. But I think, we'll see howit goes, what will be the best
(01:00:20):
arrangement. But there's no,like, discrepancy. There's no
nothing conflicting there. Bothare, sort of feeding into each
other, and and there's a veryclose relationship.
Peter O'Toole (01:00:34):
Well, it'd be interesting to see, I think, in
a few years' time just whereeverything has got to. John,
that is we have done the hournow. Okay. Thank you
John Eriksson (01:00:44):
so much
Peter O'Toole (01:00:44):
for joining me. Everyone who's been listening,
thank you for listening orwatching on the podcast. Don't
forget to subscribe to thechannel. And, actually, it's
been great. John's already namedafter Kepler, Stephan Hill, Jan
Eillemberg, all previous guestson the microscopy.
So you can go back and hear farmore details and also about
their backgrounds and theirinspirations. But, John, thank
you very much. I know you'vebeen struggling with a cough as
(01:01:05):
well. So thank you very much forgetting through that hour.
John Eriksson (01:01:09):
No worries. We managed well without coughing.
Peter O'Toole (01:01:14):
John, thank you very much.
John Eriksson (01:01:16):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Thank you for listening to The Microscopists,
a Bite Size Bio podcastsponsored by Zeiss Microscopy.
To view all audio and videorecordings from this series,
please visitbitesizebio.com/themicroscopists.
Welcome to The Microscopists, a bite sized bio
podcast hosted by Peter O'Toole,sponsored by Zeiss Microscopy.
Today on The Microscopists
Peter O'Toole (00:14):
Today on The Microscopists, I'm joined by
John Erickson from University ofTurku Turku and Euro Bio
Imaging. And he explains themoment he fell in love with
microscopy.
John Eriksson (00:23):
I was going with my samples. I've looked into the
microscope, it was like, wow.Looked into the microscope, it
was like, wow. Amazing. This is,you know, this is the reason.
Peter O'Toole (00:43):
Talks about his favorite cities.
John Eriksson (00:46):
I don't know if you've been to Chicago, but it's
such a cool place. It has jazz,a lot of music, classical music,
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, lotsof playhouses, a fantastic
place.
Peter O'Toole (01:02):
And doesn't hold back from sharing his caffeine
intake.
John Eriksson (01:06):
In the morning, minimum 1 liter of tea, then, 2
espressos, and then maybe, CokeZero or something. So that's my
sort of morning peak.
Peter O'Toole (01:22):
All in this episode of The Microvoscopists.
Hi. Welcome to The Microscopist.I'm Peter O'Toole. And on today,
I'm joined by John Ericsson,director general of Euro Bio
Imaging and professor of cellbiology, I think it is, John, at
Turku University.
How are you today, John?
John Eriksson (01:41):
Pretty good, Peter, and thanks a lot for the
invite. And I must saycongratulations to a great
podcast because we have manymembers in the team who are big
fan fans of of the podcast.
Peter O'Toole (01:54):
That's lovely to hear. Thank you. I you know, I
don't don't know where to starton this one. I'm gonna maybe
start. Director general is quitea grand name for, the Europe
Biogen side.
So what what does it entail?
John Eriksson (02:11):
So the the the title is is fancy. I agree. And
and I must say that the lookingback on my career and and your
nice invitation made me checkout a little bit. So why did I
become this and that? But onething when I was as an
(02:33):
undergraduate student, I I waspretty sure or especially now in
retrospective.
I could not imagine that one dayI would become director general
because the title itself is isquite pompous. Director general
is quite typical in in, EUcircumstances when you have an
(02:57):
organization which is big, oreven not so big, but that's
that's, the the title that isbeing used. Being, director
general in in my case means thatI'm responsible for an
organization, that has the ERICformat. And the ERIC format has
(03:21):
been, created by the commissionin order to enable this kind of,
international organizations towork a little bit easier in the
landscape of differentcountries. So we have a
jurisdiction which is making ourlife a little bit easier.
But, the, difference, forexample, with, university
(03:48):
department or something likethat institute that we are not
under the umbrella of any,organization, but we are
actually one could say that weare a special purpose company,
obviously, nonprofit. Andlegally, as director general,
I'm responsible for thatorganization. And then, of
(04:11):
course, I'm doing lots of otherthings, but but, that that is
maybe the indication of thetitle, in terms of, the EU
landscape that there's somebodywho is responsible.
Peter O'Toole (04:25):
So I I I think a really good question at this
point. You you did yourundergraduate. You've obviously
gone to be a very successfulacademic career. Why why even
want to be director general ofEurobio Magene? Because it's
it's quite a significant role.
It's not primary research perse. So what what was your
motivation to move into thatposition?
John Eriksson (04:48):
I think, as as it often is in life, and I think
you're familiar with that asmost of us who have a little bit
experience, behind us. Life isquite serendipitous. And, 10, 15
years ago, I could never haveimagined that that, there would
(05:09):
be this opportunity. But this,arose by many different factors,
and, one thing led to the other.And, I hope we can sort of
elucidate this process duringour discussion because,
actually, everything has isbased on something leading one
(05:35):
one thing leading to the necknext one.
But everything is rather random,rather serendipitous. And it was
not like I was aiming for beingdirector general 10, 15 years
ago. I had no no idea that thispossibility would, come to me
(05:57):
and, but it came, and and I tookthe opportunity. But I think it
may be better to come to thatpart of the story with a little
bit background.
Peter O'Toole (06:09):
So I I'm so I'm gonna go way back then. Way,
way, way back. Oh, by by theway, when you said it's, both of
us with a with a bit ofexperience behind us. I love the
way you subtly both called usold in that. That's that's quite
cool.
I thought I'll I'll I'll gonnakeep that one in my mind. If we
go back, I'm gonna take you backbefore you did your
(06:29):
undergraduate. I'm gonna takeyou back to when you were, I
don't know, 8, 10, 12 years ofage. Can you remember what the
first career was that youactually wanted to be? Whether
it be a footballer, a scientist,or an astronaut, or whatever it
was, can you remember the firstjob that you really fancies
being?
John Eriksson (06:48):
First job, chef.
Peter O'Toole (06:50):
Chef?
John Eriksson (06:51):
Yeah. I always liked making food, but I very
soon realized that that's a verytough job. When I became a
little bit older, a few yearsolder, I was interested in in in
a lot of things. So, I was crazyabout books and reading and so
(07:11):
forth. So, I dreamed about beingbecoming an author or a
journalist, and, actually, asan, in high school, I I was
working kind of a freelance fromtime to time in weekend editions
of a local newspaper.
So I I wrote pieces there, andand then I was in the fancy
(07:36):
editorial board of our schooljournal, which translates
something into the blurb. Mhmm.So but I was also very
interested in in naturalsciences and, and, also, biology
a lot, and and actually, I likedmicroscopes, which came into my
(08:01):
career much later, but I likethe microscopes of our school so
much. So, I offered to fix themand clean them and align them
all. They were very, very basic.
You know? This kind of, like, 19twenties, something something
like that that they have,recovered from some hospital or
(08:24):
something. But I had them athome over summer, and and I
thought it was very nice to havemicroscopes at home. So that,
then I went to to to university,and, I like too many things. So
biology, ecology, cell biology,chemistry, computer science.
(08:48):
So I I spent, I'm sure, at least2 more extra years, just reading
many things and so forth. So ittook me a while also to decide
what should I become, whatshould I make out of my life,
because I I like chemistry alot. I like psychology and but I
(09:09):
also loved physiology. So but,of course, the concept of being
on some research vessel somesomewhere, having a cold beer
and saving the world, that was,you know, coming from Jacques
Cousteau and those movies thatwere very popular in those days.
Peter O'Toole (09:29):
Did you ever get onto a a ship, a research ship?
John Eriksson (09:33):
I I actually worked, at the end of my
undergraduate studies. I worked,in a limnology project for a
while. And, again, by purechance that sort of served me a
PhD project, which took me rightinto cell biology and pure
(09:59):
chance again.
Peter O'Toole (10:01):
So so you did a PhD. So did you know when you
were a PhD student, do you wantto be an academic, or were you
just doing a PhD till youenjoyed research, or did you see
a different career ahead of youat that stage?
John Eriksson (10:15):
I was open for both academic and and also maybe
some other direction, evengovernmental. But maybe not so
much in the corporate area, sosomething like that. But I think
as I was learning things duringmy PhD, I got more and more
(10:36):
inspired by the academic life, Imust say.
Peter O'Toole (10:39):
So where where Satya, go go back. Where was
your undergraduate? Where isyour PhD?
John Eriksson (10:44):
So I did my undergraduate here in Turku, and
we have 2 universities here. Wehave University of Turku, and
then we have Abu DhabiUniversity, and I did it in the
latter. And now I've beenworking in both universities,
actually, as a professor in mycareer when I I be be had the
(11:06):
chance of becoming a professor.Have you been in Turkey all your
life? Or No.
So, I'd I've been here as aundergraduate and graduate
student, then I went to Chicagofor almost 4 years, then I came
back. And, but then when,working in Turco, I've been
(11:29):
living between, 3 or 4 blocks,so very very local person.
Peter O'Toole (11:37):
How was that? So what did you what was the move
for Chicago? What stage wasthat? Was that postdoctoral or
first
John Eriksson (11:42):
postdoc. That was postdoc.
Peter O'Toole (11:45):
How did you find that move?
John Eriksson (11:48):
I must say, Chicago was was super nice. It
was really, really, an excellentmove. It was an excellent
choice. And and, again, thechoice was a lot of fun, in
terms of of how it came around.So I can go a little bit back
(12:12):
before I go to Chicago becausethe, the story behind that is is
related to to my topic.
And the, I can define almost bythe day when I saw the light in
terms of microscopy. So thiswas, somewhere in in 1987 or
(12:36):
something. So I'll go back tothe limnology part a little bit.
So the, I was an undergraduatestudent, finishing up my,
master's thesis. Everybody isdoing a master's here, which was
on fish physiology, but then, Itook a job, to collect samples
(13:00):
in a limnology project, and Igot quite inspired, and maybe
that this would be my future.
We were working on on waterreservoirs in on the Holland
Islands, which are between,Finland and Sweden, and they
were heavily, heavily, pollutedwith, cyanobacteria, blue green
(13:23):
algae. Lots of dead birds andfish dead fish in the summer.
That's not nice to have in thein a water reservoir. And I
realized that, there was dataon, toxic algae from way back in
the 1800. The first, paper inNature, 18 something.
(13:49):
I don't remember. 70, maybe. Andthen but I also realized that
the toxins there were notcharacterized at all in those
days. So I was discussing withmy mentor who is a limnologist
that perhaps I'm more interestedin moving into this area of
(14:12):
toxin research, and, so it came,the opportunity of of changing
direction a little bit. And wewrote wrote grants, and we got
grants.
And and, of course, the topic,was quite easy to get grants on
because, water reservoirs areobviously of interest. So cut
(14:34):
the long story short, I managedto isolate these peptides, and
there were other groups alsoworking on on this topic, in the
world and many reports camealong approximately at the same
time. These were cyclicpeptides. And you may know that,
you know, cyclic peptides are,it's a peculiar type of peptide.
(14:59):
It's a very stable because ofthe cyclic form.
And, and they have a usually analteration with d and l, type
of, amino acids. And, thesepeptides were super cool,
because, chemically, I had astrong chem chemistry
(15:20):
background, so I spent at leasta year just on the chemistry and
and isolating this. But then itturned out that these are super
toxins. So they're they'reamazingly powerful. So LD 50 is
in the order of of 50 microgram,meaning meaning that you put 1
(15:40):
microgram in a mouse, and itwill die.
So the first experiments we did,we put the mice to sleep,
injected the, the toxin, and theliver explodes. I mean,
literally, so they die byinternal bleeding. So they're
they're very soon it becameobvious that, this is liver
(16:01):
specific, and that was becauseof a transport mechanism that,
the liver cells has bile acid,transport, which is a root for
many toxins, actually. So then Iwent ahead trying to figure out
what is the background, and Itested all the possible, or all
(16:25):
the possibilities in terms of,molecular toxicology that were
around in those days withcalcium metabolism, redox
states, ion transport, butnothing. They were alive.
The cells, nothing happened tothe cells in terms of trypan
(16:47):
blue uptake and so forth. Andthen comes this, moment of
light. And that was sort oftriggering my pathway into
microscopy. So somebody told methat, at some stage, we can have
a look on the on the pictures,but, somebody told me that, why
(17:09):
don't the cells are lookingquite wrinkled, when when you
look in the microscope thatthere is this, compound,
phalloidin, which is rhodaminelabeled. Why don't you stain the
cells with that?
And I realized that follow thelabeling was super easy, I mean,
(17:34):
also currently, it's it's veryeasy be compared to many
antibodies, because it's it'salways working if you don't
screw up. And we had onereasonable microscope in the
building. It had a 40 x lens,epifluorescence microscope. And
I was going with my samples.I've never done a fluorescence
(17:58):
microscopy before.
I was going there, and firsttime I looked into the
microscope, it was like, wow.Amazing. This is, you know, this
is the reason. There'severything that is happening in
the liver is because thecytoskeleton is completely
(18:20):
screwed up. So that made me atrue believer in microscopies
that one should always check-inthe microscope.
That's the first thing you do,and you use all the basic stuff,
that is around, and then youwill always get lots of
information.
Peter O'Toole (18:38):
John, do you still have those images, those
first images?
John Eriksson (18:45):
So because of your invitation, I was looking
in my old old cabinets, and Ifound the first pictures that I
took with with those that Imentioned.
Peter O'Toole (18:58):
They do. I can't do it. Not this one?
John Eriksson (19:02):
Nope. Nope. It's a it's, the first pictures, they
were 2 round cells. Yeah. Andthat that's, that's, the next
next one.
2. Yeah. There we are. So Idon't know if you've ever worked
(19:24):
with liver cells, but you canwork with isolated liver cells.
You perfuse the liver withcollagenase and first flush with
EGTA.
So you snap up the desmosomesand then collagenase, and then,
the liver cells are released.And then you can work with them
(19:45):
for a day approximately.They're, of course, in the
suspension, so they they're notunder the normal conditions. But
this is how at the left side,this is how the, microfilaments
would look like. They're sort ofcortically distributed, no
stress fibers, nothing likethat.
Peter O'Toole (20:04):
They're nicely structured around the sense of
the Yeah. Membrane itself.
John Eriksson (20:09):
Yeah. So that's one liver cell. And then the one
on the right hand side istreated with microcystin, which
is the toxin. So nanomolarlevels and the microfilaments
are completely moved, to onepart of the cell.
Peter O'Toole (20:32):
You know what's fascinating? For those that are
listening, you got an an an anice image which looks a bit
like the sun with a bright edgeto it, and then you've got
another cell where, actually,all that intensity is bunched up
together and bulging down to oneside. It isn't just disrupted,
but it's also relocated to thewhole change of distribution.
(20:52):
And it I kind of expected whenyou were talking about it for
the distribution to sort of justbecome loose and just just stop
binding. Actually, no.
It seems to have almostaggregated into a mass. Is that
what happened?
John Eriksson (21:04):
Yeah. So, that that is a long story, but that's
my story the story of my PhD. Sofirst of all, I realized that
that this is a cytoskeletalelement or event. And the reason
why the liver explodes is thatthe cells cannot keep themselves
together anymore because all theinteractions, obviously, will be
(21:26):
destroyed. At that time, I I wasnot super proficient with with,
the cytoskeleton, but the, I Ithought that, okay, I discovered
phalloidin or cytocalicine orsomething, cytoskeletal
disruptor.
So I went to Una Lindbergh's labin in Stockholm. They were, very
(21:52):
good with microfilaments, and II was hoping that that we could
show that, okay, microfilamentsare being aggregated or
polymerization is disturbed.Nothing. Absolutely no. So, then
we could actually have a look onthe, electron micrographs if
(22:17):
that where they're yeah.
So micrographs that I, I wascollaborating with a group in in
Dundee.
Peter O'Toole (22:28):
So a great looking tennis ball, for one
healthy cell, and then actuallyquite a smooth surface, but a
very, very, what would be theword? This is is is it is just
bulging everywhere, isn't it?
John Eriksson (22:42):
Yeah. It's always collected, this rosette of blebs
at one part of the cell, andthat's where you have the actin
cytoskeleton. And there's atransmission EM also. Yeah.
There we are.
Peter O'Toole (22:57):
Oh, that just makes it look like my head's
exploding. Yeah.
John Eriksson (23:01):
So you can see the ring there, and that's the
actin ring that we were lookingat in the fluorescence.
Peter O'Toole (23:07):
That's okay. So that's 3 different, microscopy
technologies coming togetherjust to resolve the one
question. Yeah.
John Eriksson (23:17):
And all of this got me completely hooked on
microscopy because as you canrealize as you're you're a
microscopist, to get thesepictures, I've stayed quite a
few hours in in, different darkrooms, listening to various
music, and I'm completely hookedto that kind of working
environment and and also primed,I guess.
Peter O'Toole (23:40):
I don't how often do you get on a microscope now?
John Eriksson (23:44):
Last time in 2014. So a little bit
depressing, I must say.
Peter O'Toole (23:52):
I I I was I was yes. Do you remember what the
what your first fluorescencemicroscope was?
John Eriksson (23:58):
So that's that's a I like a microscope, if,
advertising is okay here. But,we used I mean, afterwards, we
have almost all the major brandshere, but I don't remember the
the actual model, but it was avery basic model. And but
Peter O'Toole (24:20):
What about VMs? What about TM and SEM? Do you
remember what they were?
John Eriksson (24:25):
So the, the SEM was gel, 1200. What? Yeah. 1200.
And that, the transmission was,a very basic deal.
Peter O'Toole (24:39):
Mhmm.
John Eriksson (24:39):
And I'd maybe no. I wouldn't say the number, but
really basic. Yeah. But givingpretty good pictures, I must
say.
Peter O'Toole (24:50):
No. I certainly remember my first microscope
since but I'd I'd I'd be hardpushed to say what my favorite
was, like, over the time becausebecause you got a soft spot for
most, I think. Yeah. Goingthrough.
John Eriksson (25:03):
And they are so great machines, and this
nowadays, they are amazing. Butthey were amazing in those days
also. A little bit more tricky,but but, finicky and but great
machines.
Peter O'Toole (25:15):
So why Chicago?
John Eriksson (25:17):
Okay. So now we come to the mechanism. What
happened with this, thesestructures. So the whole basis
of of this, this cytoskeletaldisruption is that, we
discovered that the microcystinacts as a phosphatase inhibitor.
(25:43):
So you may be familiar withochodac acid and caliculin,
which are inhibiting type 1 andtype 2a phosphatases.
And, the reason for thecytoskeletal disruption is
inhibition of proteinphosphatases. And as we now
(26:04):
know, you know, the balance ofany phospholiation event is the
balance between the kinaseactivity and the phosphat
phosphatase activity. And here,you shut off the phosphatases
altogether, and the cytoskeletongets completely screwed up.
Peter O'Toole (26:24):
Mhmm. And
John Eriksson (26:25):
and to me, that was a revelation because I
always thought of,phosphorylation events as, you
know, a little bit static. Sothe kinase is activated.
Something is moved into anotherdirection, and the then the
phosphatase takes back. But Irealized that that the
(26:46):
cytoskeleton is then much moreof, like, a helicopter that is
balanced by these activeactivities, and it, then you
move the joysticks of the cell,and things will move in
different directions. The whenwe were doing and we were
labeling with, p 32 phosphate,we realized that, intermediate
(27:08):
filaments, the keratins in inliver cells, the keratin 8 and
18 are the specific intermediatefilaments of liver cells.
And, then I decided to do mypostdoc on intermediate
filaments because, I was curiousabout intermediate filaments.
(27:32):
They were much less known than,microfilaments and microtubule.
And there was I got an interviewwith with Bob Goldman who worked
at, and still works atNorthwestern University. And I
got an interview, and, then Idecided to go to Chicago. And
(27:55):
that was a a fantastic decision.
Peter O'Toole (27:58):
So how how, were you daunted by the thought of it
to start with? Just excited? Howhow are you how is your sort of
personal feelings about leavingFindham to go to quite a
different culture over in NewYork.
John Eriksson (28:15):
I had no problem. I had absolutely no problem. I
was just like my future wife. Wewere adventurous. We just we had
a few interviews in the UnitedStates.
We went there, interviewing, andI was actually interviewing
supposed to interview with BobGoldman, but he had screwed up
(28:39):
his calendar. So, I was there.He was not there, and I thought
that, okay, forget about thisguy. I will not I will take the
other offer I had in Princeton.But then he he called me up a
little bit later and said, John,why aren't you not here?
(29:00):
You should be on an interview. Iwill and then I said, I was
there 2 weeks ago, but you werenot there. And and he said
that's okay. Sorry about that.My secretary screwed up my
calendar.
He always put the blame Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (29:14):
Blame someone else.
John Eriksson (29:17):
And then I went for another interview, and and
we got along very well. And, Idecided to go there. And I don't
know if you've been to Chicago,but it's such a cool place. It
has, jazz, a lot of music,classical music, Chicago
Symphony Orchestra, lots ofplayhouses, a fantastic place.
(29:40):
And and the science is great.
So we have both University ofChicago and and Northwestern
University, lots of differentopportunities. I was completely
take blown away by this city andand everything else. And, of
course, I had been working undervery, sort of limited
(30:02):
circumstances, and suddenly, I'mmoving in this very
international environment, andyou realize that that you're a
very small fish in a big sea,which is humbling and nice,
because it gives youperspective. And the lab was
also great, wonderful people,wonderful colleagues, super
(30:26):
helpful. There were people whotaught me so much in protein
chemistry, and and, of course,cell biology in terms of
instrumentation compared to theone old Leica I had.
Bob Goldman had everything thatyou could have in those days. So
(30:48):
and he got one of the firstconfocal microscopes. So that
was a size microscope if I ifI'm not mistaken. And so, I got
to see confocal microscope veryearly on. And, also, thanks to,
this postdoc, I was staying 2summers at the Woods Hole Marine
(31:11):
Biological Laboratory, which youmay have Yeah.
So, there there are also manymany famous scientists, to be,
you know, going out for a bearwith and and, going for quite
amazing parties when the salescycle was being drawn on the
(31:33):
beach because Tim Hunt wasthere. And then, there was
Shinya Inouye, who is, ofcourse, absolutely amazing. So
lots of amazing people, lots ofamazing instruments, and and
skinny dipping among,fluorescent algae and what have
you.
Peter O'Toole (31:53):
And did you say you went over with your wife to
be at the time?
John Eriksson (31:57):
Yes.
Peter O'Toole (31:57):
And what what was did did she find a job over
there as well? Was she alsostudying?
John Eriksson (32:01):
So my wife, is is a molecular biologist, and
molecular geneticist, and sheworked, with Rick Morimoto, in
in, in the Evanston campus ofNorthwestern University. So I
worked at the medical schooldowntown. And, Rick Morimoto is
(32:25):
a stress biologist, so he hasbeen working and one of the
founding fathers of of thestress response. And, and my
wife is still working with thestress response just like I'm
still working with with theintermediate filaments.
Peter O'Toole (32:43):
That's kinda cool. So then you went back to
fit why do you do you alwaysthink you'd go back home?
John Eriksson (32:51):
I think we were both tempted to stay, but then
in terms of of family and soforth, life may be easier here
in Scandinavia. Having a familyin in the US, we felt that it's
quite challenging, but we weretempted to stay. And but we got
(33:11):
a nice offer, both of us at thesame time, at so a place which
is here in the same buildingwhere I'm now, which is called
Turco Bioscience Center. Andthat was a rather visionary
place because it was a corefacility for both universities.
And, it the idea was to combineboth research and core
(33:35):
facilities in the same,department.
And it's it's a big success.More than 200 people working
there now, and and that was thewhole place was the basis of of
core facility activities here inin Turku. And quite early on,
before open access was reallywell defined.
Peter O'Toole (33:57):
Yeah. So
John Eriksson (33:58):
we we got positions there and, and I I got
a position as a cell biologist,which meant that, I should set
up all the instruments, neededfor cell biology. At the time,
there was, an old Nikon reallycrappy, and and, the change was
(34:23):
pretty depressing, you know,coming from
Peter O'Toole (34:26):
I'd like to wonder what it'd be like going
from a very extremely wellresourced lab back to, you know,
not everywhere can be like that,can it?
John Eriksson (34:38):
No. And and, of course, that was my task to
build up, a facility that waswell equipped, but but, we came
in right after the building wasfinished. So my lab didn't even
have a sink. So that was it tooksome time to set up everything.
Peter O'Toole (34:58):
So what out out of your career today, what what
would you say has been thehardest time? What's been the
most difficult time?
John Eriksson (35:08):
So then I was working at Turco Bioscience
Center for a few years, and thatwas fun. We managed to also to
pull in quite a lot of funding,for for the instruments, but
then I, of course, had to applyfor professorships. I became
professor, professor in sology,actually, at University of
Turku, in 1998, and that was ateaching position. So I was, of
(35:33):
course, allowed to do researchand so forth and even supposed
to do that. But, the contacthours were more than 22100 or
easily 250 hours per year.
So that was so much. And then Iwas, in the matriculation
examination board of Finland,which means the, the general
(35:58):
examination after high schoolfor everybody. And I was also,
in the committee evaluating thehigh school students, you know,
their papers. So I got, 4000papers every Easter. And that
was it was, like, crazy.
So and then I I was running alab and doing all kinds of
(36:23):
things, and, also, I was quiteactive in terms of of campus
administration, and we had smallkids. And and, this the nights
were very, very short. So so, II think I looked pretty crappy
at times.
Peter O'Toole (36:44):
So how how did you pull yourself back from
that?
John Eriksson (36:47):
So then 2,006, there was a an opportunity to
get another professorship whichwas much more attractive, And
that was, at the same time, Ibecame head of cell biology,
head of department. I got anice, startup package, really
(37:08):
nice. And so 100 100 of 1,000 ofeuros, and I, put all of that
into microscopes. And, I wasteaming up with Peck Kahanninen,
who was, who is still here, thedean of the medical faculty. And
(37:28):
together, we we bought, LeicaMetrix, s p 8, and then we also
bought an s p 8 stead.
And so with that, Turku suddenlybecame quite strong in Finland.
And we we became wellrecognized. And, and, also, at
(37:52):
that time, we we did a a kind ofcoordination thing, which was a
good idea. So we were thinkingwith a few people here that how
could we make stronger withouttaking away anything from
anybody else. So the way wewould think about what are our
(38:15):
real strongholds.
And microscopy was 1 because,Stefan Heller was working here
at the time, actually, when Iwas recruited back. And so we
had, this tradition, and then wehave have also still, one of
the, biggest pet centers inEurope. So we, decided to
(38:37):
combine this stronghold in in aregional organization, which was
really a virtual organization tobegin with, Torco
Bioengineering. And, TorcoBioengineering took in
everything from, microscopy tomolecular analysis to, even
(38:58):
clinical imaging. And so ourmotto was from, from atoms to
anatomy.
And that's a very similar mottoas as in neurobiology, which we,
of course, didn't know about inthese days. So that that
organization started with half acoordinator, and it was
(39:23):
amazingly successful. Weimmediately became much more
successful in terms of funding.We got the national coordination
of imaging in Finland. Thanks tothe national coordination, there
there's a organization called,BioCentre Finland, which is for
infrastructures.
(39:45):
And I became the coordinator inthat organization of imaging,
and we got a big chunk offunding, not only for Turku, but
for for Finland, for, Turku,Helsinki, Corpio, Tampere, and
Oulu, to improve imaging. Andthat became the the sort of
(40:09):
start of of the national,imaging organization. This
brings me to Eurobangingbecause, there was no national
1800 imaging in Finland. And soif if people were looking for
somebody who would becoordinating, Finnish imaging,
(40:33):
it would be my number. Andthat's how I got to know Jan
Ellenberg, who you have had onon on your podcast, and he had a
very nice and also, AnttiKepler, who is currently
nowadays, my colleague, wastelling about the history and
(40:54):
the early beginnings of ofEurobanging.
But I, quite early on, I gotengaged with with, Eurobanging,
which was a project in thosedays, for ice European project.
And there were 2 preparatoryphases, before the organization,
(41:14):
came to reality. So in thosedays, I was coordinating the
soon to be finished, Eurobangingnode. And then, thanks to that,
I've got to be on theEurobanging board, and then, you
know, things were moving alongslowly. But that took quite a
(41:39):
long time before theorganization came into a reality
and and some parts of the,process were were quite slow.
But, to cut a long story really,really short, it it wasn't
decided to be in the beginning,to be a 3 partite, hub or
(42:03):
headquarters. But, due toseveral political circumstances,
there were there was nobody whowould take the seat, and see it
is the legal body. And, becauseof these circumstances, Finland
came into the picture, andFinland is often, a nice place
(42:25):
to have this kind of legalbodies because Finland is
considered to be neutral andharmless. And and then, now we
have a 3 part at headquarterswith the SEAT, the legal
organization being in in Turku,and then we have biological
imaging in Heidelberg, in EMBL,and Antti Kepler is the director
(42:49):
there. And then we have, medicalimaging in Torino where we have
Linda Chaban.
Wonderful colleagues. Both bothof them, absolutely amazing
colleagues, and, and then alsowe have a wonderful team. But I
was keeping a little bit ofhistory there.
Peter O'Toole (43:08):
No. It's okay. I I I'm gonna ask you a quick one.
Do you regret any of the steps?
John Eriksson (43:22):
Well, I don't know. I don't think I regret
anything. So I was dabbling withquite a few I was dabbling with
quite a few things in thebeginning, you know, as an
undergraduate student. So Icould maybe have done a little
bit fewer, but, you know, it'sokay. Yeah.
(43:42):
No. I well,
Peter O'Toole (43:43):
I think that's probably giving you the breadth
that's probably helped as you asyou've gone forward. I asked
what you wanted to be when youattend. You sort of said a chef,
and then you saw your career,and we've heard other careers,
serendipitously, got you towhere you are today. If you
could do any job in the worldfor a day or a week just to see
(44:03):
what it's like, Is there a jobthat you'd just like to go and
sample? Doesn't have to beinside.
It could be any type of job.What would you like to do for a
day or a week?
John Eriksson (44:17):
I don't know. I would be a scientist. I know
it's a boring answer, but, youknow, I'm I'm quite a die hard
now.
Peter O'Toole (44:29):
That's that's okay. Yep. Okay. Where would you
choose? If you could go anywherein the world and practice your
science for 6 months, wherewould you go?
John Eriksson (44:42):
That's a hard one because there are so wonderful
places around the world nowadayscompared to when I was younger,
and also, I guess, when you'remuch younger than I am, but even
when you were in your earlycareer, I don't know the, you
(45:03):
know, the there are severalplaces in the United States.
And, maybe going into the Bostonarea would be very really cool,
but also London would be nice.
Peter O'Toole (45:22):
John. John. John. York is so much better than
London.
John Eriksson (45:26):
Okay. Okay.
Peter O'Toole (45:28):
If you're gonna come to the UK, go do York. It's
obvious. So quick fire questionsfor me. Are you an early bird or
a night owl?
John Eriksson (45:39):
Sorry.
Peter O'Toole (45:40):
Are you an early bird or a night owl?
John Eriksson (45:42):
I'm really a night owl. But but now I'm often
forced to be an early bird. Sothat that's that's, that's a
little bit of a clash there.
Peter O'Toole (45:55):
PC or Mac? PC. McDonald's or Burger King?
John Eriksson (46:03):
There's a Finnish company called Hasburger.
Peter O'Toole (46:07):
Okay. Good answer. Chicago or Turkey?
John Eriksson (46:13):
I would take turns because I consider that
I'm you know, both cities are myhometowns. So, you know, for
several years, I I I washomesick for cigar Chicago,
especially in the fall. Youknow? Chicago fall is beautiful.
Peter O'Toole (46:33):
I've got I've got to say, I can see why you're
director general. These arepolitically very nice ants.
You're not alienating anyone.Tea or coffee?
John Eriksson (46:44):
Both. Enormous quantities.
Peter O'Toole (46:47):
Tea or coffee?
John Eriksson (46:48):
I'm I'm so addicted to caffeine. So do you
you know, Johann Sebastian Bach,he has a a contact, a coral for
coffee. And I understand why.Because, you know, that's a
magic potion right there. In themorning, minimum 1 liter of tea,
(47:16):
then, 2 espressos, and thenmaybe, Coke Zero or something.
So that's my sort of morningpeak. But then I can manage
quite a long time for that withthat.
Peter O'Toole (47:30):
Okay. Be able why?
John Eriksson (47:34):
Again, I must say, I'm not trying to be
politically correct, but I likeboth.
Peter O'Toole (47:40):
Anything. Anything.
John Eriksson (47:42):
Any I I I'm not so into hard liquor, but but, I
really like beer, especiallynowadays when you have all these
nice microbreweries and soforth. Okay. But, of course, a a
wonderful glass of wine.
Peter O'Toole (47:57):
Metal white. It's
John Eriksson (47:58):
good. White. And that's maybe because I like red
wine also, but but if if I'm alittle little excited or
stressed, then, red wine givesme stomach problems.
Peter O'Toole (48:15):
Okay. Chocolate or cheese?
John Eriksson (48:17):
What was the first one?
Peter O'Toole (48:19):
Chocolate or cheese?
John Eriksson (48:23):
I like cheese a lot and chocolate, at times, but
maybe I would put cheese first.
Peter O'Toole (48:32):
Okay. And what is your, so you're a chef. What is
your favorite food to eat, firstoff?
John Eriksson (48:39):
Oh, gosh. These questions are hard because it
all depends on on the occasionand the season. I like I like
Italian food a lot. But Okay.But, like, right now, here in
Finland, it's time for if youknow this.
Peter O'Toole (49:00):
No. No.
John Eriksson (49:01):
And then this Russian pancakes made of
buckwheat, and you eat thosewith fish roe and pickled
cucumbers and stuff. It's great.
Peter O'Toole (49:13):
Okay. Do do you have a a least favorite food?
John Eriksson (49:18):
If I have an elite baby.
Peter O'Toole (49:20):
Least. Least. What is what is there any food
you don't particularly like? Oh,
John Eriksson (49:27):
there are a few, but but I'm well, you know,
there are, I'm sure, challengingfoods that I couldn't take, but
I I can take take most things.
Peter O'Toole (49:38):
Okay. I think I know this answer from what you
said earlier, but TV or book?
John Eriksson (49:47):
Well, I I get to see TV rarely. I like movies,
old movies and and classicalmovies. And some of the new TV
series are amazing, I mustadmit.
Peter O'Toole (50:02):
So so what what's been your latest TV series?
John Eriksson (50:06):
Babylon Berlin. Okay. And Right. Check it out.
But, I'm warning.
It's seriously addictive.
Peter O'Toole (50:18):
Sounds good. And what what's your favorite film
then?
John Eriksson (50:23):
That would be Citizen Kane and Casablanca.
Peter O'Toole (50:28):
Two good films. And what about a favorite
Christmas film?
John Eriksson (50:34):
A beautiful what is that? A Beautiful Year. Well,
you know the the movie.
Peter O'Toole (50:41):
I don't, but I will find it.
John Eriksson (50:43):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (50:44):
And, if you had to choose between 1 Star Trek
John Eriksson (50:47):
A beautiful life.
Peter O'Toole (50:49):
A Beautiful Life. A Wonderful Life.
John Eriksson (50:51):
Wonderful Life. There you go. Yes.
Peter O'Toole (50:53):
Yep. Nope. I'm there. Star Trek or Star Wars?
John Eriksson (50:57):
I I never, I they came in a period when when I was
so immersed in in studies andother things, so I didn't watch
them.
Peter O'Toole (51:09):
Oh, so neither on that?
John Eriksson (51:10):
Yeah.
Peter O'Toole (51:11):
Basic color?
John Eriksson (51:14):
Kind of bluish. Bluish? Yep.
Peter O'Toole (51:18):
See, why didn't you just say dappy?
John Eriksson (51:24):
I don't know if it would be Dappy, though. Maybe
her maybe Herx'd rather.
Peter O'Toole (51:30):
Oh, 33342. Yes. What what other hobbies do you
have? You you sent me a pictureactually of, actually, this just
makes it look like I've gotloads of hair and I bit like a a
bear wolf. But is is this yourpet dog?
John Eriksson (51:47):
That's our, Lapland shepherd.
Peter O'Toole (51:50):
Mhmm.
John Eriksson (51:51):
And, there's a story around that. But the,
apart from this guy, hobbies,I'm an all year biker, which in
Finnish conditions can be quitechallenges challenging, but I
really like biking. I read a Itry to read. I play squash every
(52:16):
Monday at 5 o'clock, since 1983or something. And then movies
and stuff.
But, as scientists, we we don'thave so much time for hobbies.
But, the guy there at the back,he's my mentor. So as you can
(52:44):
realize from my small history,I've been director for quite a
few years. So I was first chairof the department, and then
actually in 2016, I became chairor head of the Turku Bioscience
Center. And as that that is abig place with with a big,
(53:08):
budget and more than 200 people,it was really challenging
because I was interim directorat Eurobanging, part of the same
time.
And then I became director ofEurobanging. And being a
director is is really fun also,and it's very rewarding because
(53:30):
you can you realize that you cando things and change change
things. So that's my, you know,driving force. But it can be,
sometimes the blues hits you bigtime, because of funding
circumstances or you have some,fight with some colleague or
something. And, of course, withbig institutions, you always
(53:55):
have conflicts, and that'sthat's the name of the game.
But this guy is teaching me thebasic truth. You know? Every
morning, he gets up and alwayshappy. Okay. Let's go out.
Life is good. And so so, that'sa simple advice, and it's a
(54:19):
great advice.
Peter O'Toole (54:21):
That is that is super cool, actually, here.
Guys, it's not quick firequestion, but what's your
favorite conference?
John Eriksson (54:32):
The Gordon conference on intermediate
filaments.
Peter O'Toole (54:35):
That's your favorite conference. Okay.
John Eriksson (54:37):
And That that's And and also
Peter O'Toole (54:40):
Go on.
John Eriksson (54:41):
Yes. Well, I haven't been on so many Elmi
conferences, but Elmi is supercool,
Peter O'Toole (54:49):
which, of course, you hosted.
John Eriksson (54:51):
Oh. And 2,
Peter O'Toole (54:53):
2 years ago?
John Eriksson (54:55):
Not last year, but the year before.
Peter O'Toole (54:57):
Yeah. 2 years ago. Only it seems really
recent, though. It was anexcellent tell me as well. Well
done on hosting that.
It was a great location. Love tosee Turkey. That was that was
great.
John Eriksson (55:08):
Yeah. And, also, previous year, these 2, because
we have been coming out ofCOVID, they were absolutely
fantastic.
Peter O'Toole (55:17):
So we've asked about the the hard times and
that those those difficulties.You just alluded to there that
the the the politics, andeverything else. With your
current role, with Euro BioImaging, are there still a lot
of politics to to navigate, oris it now much easier sailing? I
know you've listened to Jan. Itwas terribly awful actually,
(55:39):
awfully political.
But have things now got better,or are the politics still
something you have to navigate?
John Eriksson (55:49):
In big international organizations, you
always have the politicalaspect, but it's it's completely
different. So that time that Janwas describing and and he and
other people, including Antia,who was aboard, there, did a
great job. But those times werereally challenging. Now, when we
(56:14):
the organization was formallyaccepted as a European
organization that was at theturn of the year 2019, 2020. We
didn't realize, how tough it wasjust to set up an organization.
But, politically, it was not sotough anymore. It was the board
(56:38):
meetings were getting much moreeasy. They're not we always the
the board is, of course, owningus, the member states. So the
board meetings are alwaysexciting. But once we got
through the period, and that'sour first 5 year period of
establishing the organization,all kinds of recruitment,
(57:01):
setting up systems.
Now we're in our next phase. Sogoing from build up to strategic
development. It's completelydifferent. We have an amazing
situation. I I must say, I'msort of mesmerized each morning.
We we are well resourced. Wehave a fantastic node community.
(57:23):
We have a 9 191 sites aroundEurope. I cannot imagine that
anybody of us here in the hubwill have a chance to meet to to
go to all of these places, butit's an it's an unbelievably
nice community. And I see thatwe can do miracles in the in the
(57:46):
next few years.
Also, because we have we startto learn what we really can do.
So we can do things that werecompletely beyond our
imaginations when when we werein the preparatory phase. So so
now as we say, sometimes in the,in the virtual, pub, which we
(58:10):
have every Friday, which is acommunity meeting that we
sometimes say that, you know,the, the sky is the limit, but
not the resolution. And that'sthat's how I feel the the future
of Eurobanging.
Peter O'Toole (58:25):
And, we are really close to the hour now
already. So I have to ask you,this is interesting question.
When you retire, will you carryon going into a lab? Or will you
when you retire, will you enjoya bit more squash, cycling, and
shifting at home?
John Eriksson (58:46):
So I I hope to do science still when I'm retired,
but, of course, I, I will shiftfocus also a little bit and do
things that I haven't donebefore, or haven't had time to
do. That's for sure, but Ihaven't thought so much about
that.
Peter O'Toole (59:04):
So plenty of time still. It's just an interesting
question. There's no way to findit. Some people and go. Yeah.
Others like to stay inregardless, and it's Yeah.
John Eriksson (59:17):
I have I have a hard time envisioning myself,
you know, just closing the doorsaying, bye bye. This is it.
Peter O'Toole (59:27):
That'll be different. And do you see Euro
BioMeeting and GlobalBioMeeting? Is there any
potential one day that they willmerge and it will just become
glow Euro BioMaging withinGlobal BioMaging?
John Eriksson (59:38):
Well, they are sort of sister. Global Biomg is
a project. Eurobanging is anorganization. But if we call
them projects, they are sisterprojects. And and how that will
develop in the future, I thinkit's it's for us to see.
(59:59):
Obviously, Antia is there,leading that, the global bi
imaging and part of the teammembers are very active there,
and then they the global biimaging also also has its own
team. But I think, we'll see howit goes, what will be the best
(01:00:20):
arrangement. But there's no,like, discrepancy. There's no
nothing conflicting there. Bothare, sort of feeding into each
other, and and there's a veryclose relationship.
Peter O'Toole (01:00:34):
Well, it'd be interesting to see, I think, in
a few years' time just whereeverything has got to. John,
that is we have done the hournow. Okay. Thank you
John Eriksson (01:00:44):
so much
Peter O'Toole (01:00:44):
for joining me. Everyone who's been listening,
thank you for listening orwatching on the podcast. Don't
forget to subscribe to thechannel. And, actually, it's
been great. John's already namedafter Kepler, Stephan Hill, Jan
Eillemberg, all previous guestson the microscopy.
So you can go back and hear farmore details and also about
their backgrounds and theirinspirations. But, John, thank
you very much. I know you'vebeen struggling with a cough as
(01:01:05):
well. So thank you very much forgetting through that hour.
John Eriksson (01:01:09):
No worries. We managed well without coughing.
Peter O'Toole (01:01:14):
John, thank you very much.
John Eriksson (01:01:16):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Thank you for listening to The Microscopists,
a Bite Size Bio podcastsponsored by Zeiss Microscopy.
To view all audio and videorecordings from this series,
please visitbitesizebio.com/themicroscopists.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.