April 8, 2025 • 30 mins
How can mid-career professionals engage in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) conversations without fear of saying the wrong thing? Bernadette Smith, CEO of the Equality Institute, shares her ARC Method—Ask, Respect, Connect—a simple yet powerful approach to fostering authentic connections while ensuring psychological safety at work.
In This Episode, You'll Learn:
✅ How to navigate DEI discussions with confidence and "kind curiosity"
✅ Why over-apologizing for mistakes can do more harm than good
✅ How to build meaningful relationships in workplaces scaling back DEI efforts
✅ Why progress in social movements includes setbacks—but connections endure
✅ How pickleball (yes, pickleball!) offers surprising lessons in inclusion
Key Takeaways:
✔ The ARC Method makes DEI conversations more approachable and effective
✔ A simple, sincere apology is better than over-apologizing
✔ Asking for help isn’t a weakness—it strengthens relationships
✔ DEI isn’t about political correctness—it’s about harnessing diversity for success
Subscribe to Bernadette’s newsletter → FiveThingsDEI.com
Bernadette Smith’s Website → https://BernadetteSmith.com
Listen to her podcast → Five Things in 15 Minutes
If you're looking to lead with inclusion and confidence, this episode is a must-listen!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
This year, we have seen tremendous changes around
the conversation on DEI.
Yes, we can still talk about itand we will, in this episode,
see.
As mid-career leaders andprofessionals, I know that one
of your biggest concerns is thatyou don't want to make a
mistake.
And what if that mistakeresulted in you potentially
(00:24):
being canceled?
How could you show up withmeaningful intentions and
without fear of being canceledor doing irreputable harm to
your career?
You show up from a place thatmy guest today calls kind
curiosity.
Today, I am joined by BernadetteSmith, the CEO of the Equality
(00:47):
Institute, who is here to talkto us about what it means to
have good vibes in DEI,especially in today's world.
She'll also talk to us aboutwhat DEI truly is, how
unconscious assumptions can behandled.
How unconscious assumptions canbe handled.
She'll share with us her ARCmethod for handling any
(01:08):
situation and why her love ofpickleball has been a great
source of connecting with others.
So let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Bernadette Smith, the CEO, usehumor and relatability to
(02:06):
inspire meaningful action,winning over even the skeptics.
Praised as relatable, authenticand fun, Bernadette's approach
has earned the trust of leadingbrands, including Fortune 500
companies and global leadershipteams.
Her influence as a champion forinclusion and belonging has
(02:29):
been spotlighted by the New YorkTimes, National Public Radio,
CNN and the Today Show, andshe's been named one of
Chicago's notable LGBTQexecutives by Crane's Chicago
Business.
So it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Bernadette
Smith.
Bernadette, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:50):
It's great to have you heretoday.
Bernadette Smith (02:52):
Thanks, John.
It's a treat to be invited, yeswe're going to have a great
conversation.
John Neral (02:57):
I appreciate you being here with us today,
because this whole conversationaround DEI is one that we need
to have and we're going to talkabout it.
Your journey, however, isinteresting to say the least.
You've got a pretty powerfulmid-career moment I would love
for you to share with us.
Bernadette Smith (03:16):
Well, I used to be a wedding planner with an
LGBTQ specialty and now I own asmall management consulting firm
and I'm a speaker and writer.
That's what I love to do isspeak and write, so I left the
weddings behind.
Do you miss it?
Well, I certainly didn't missit during COVID, let's be honest
(03:38):
.
But no, I don't miss it at all.
In fact, I don't really evenhave those skills anymore.
I'm not nearly as organized asI used to be.
(03:59):
It's like those skills fadedaway and now I really think that
I've sort of, and I am, avisionary person.
It's just that the businessthat I chose happened to be
wedding planning, which requiresa lot of attention to detail.
John Neral (04:13):
Without question and I love how you bring up that
sometimes our skills transitionand we don't.
When we don't use thoseparticularly skills, we're not
as good at them that we would benow, as opposed to when we were
years ago.
Bernadette Smith (04:27):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Neral (04:30):
I say the same thing because I used to teach
mathematics and friends will belike can you tutor my kid?
I'm like it's been 15 yearssince I've done it.
I could probably but it's notsomething I want to do, right?
So you kind of have to keepworking those, those muscles and
stuff.
I don't want to.
I don't want to save this untilthe end, because this is just
(04:51):
an interesting fact that you andI had talked about in our
pre-call.
But you love pickleball and I'mwondering if you can just share
with us like what's been thatfor you, especially as an outlet
, but also as for potentiallynetworking.
Bernadette Smith (05:08):
Yeah, so pickleball is a passion of mine.
I play probably six times aweek in the summer or when it's
warm out, and then right now I'mplaying three or four times a
week.
You know I I love it becauseit's the first hobby I've ever
had.
You know, I've been anentrepreneur for 20 years and
(05:30):
that has required a lot ofhustle, energy, a lot of
obsession with my business in anunhealthy way, and I didn't
have an outlet that had everreally stuck before and nothing
really interested me or stuck.
But as soon as I playedpickleball for the first time,
it was an obsession and itrelates to diversity, equity and
inclusion, and so it's sort ofgiven me a lot of stories as
(05:50):
well and a good opportunity tomeet folks and to network.
So, yeah, it's definitely it's.
It brings me into worlds that Iwouldn't otherwise find.
John Neral (06:01):
Talk to us a little bit about how Pickleball
connects to DEI for you.
Bernadette Smith (06:06):
Sure.
So a lot of Pickleball isplayed in open play, which is
essentially like a pickup gameyou never know quite who's going
to be there and so it can be anopportunity to meet lots of
different kinds of folks, andone of the first experiences I
had was, you know, gettingdecently good at pickleball and
(06:27):
having starting to have someswagger and some confidence, and
then getting my, my butt beatby a bunch of 70 year olds,
right.
So learning that I'm ageist onthe pickleball court is
certainly, you know, kind of alesson in inclusion or a lesson
even in, you know, my own biases, right.
And so the pickleball brings somany different kinds of people
(06:51):
together.
You know that's the diversity,and, and I've even played with
people in wheelchairs, so it's,it's really been a gift.
A gift Lots of amazing folks, Imean.
Yeah.
John Neral (07:03):
No, thank you.
Thank you for sharing that, andlet's never underestimate the
power of a 70-year-old who'sreally good at pickleball or
other things as well.
Bernadette, I want to let ourlisteners in here, so you and I
are recording this episode onFebruary 20th.
This episode is scheduled todrop in early April and it goes
(07:25):
without question that theconversation around diversity,
equity and inclusion has been abig topic and focus, especially
in the first quarter of thisyear.
In your bio and I mentionedthis a little bit in the
introduction but your intentionis to shine the light on good
(07:46):
vibes in DEI and inspire othersto connect authentically with
those different from themselves,and I love how you phrase that.
But can you let us in in termsof what are good vibes in DEI to
you?
Bernadette Smith (08:06):
what are good vibes in DEI to you?
Oh, good vibes in DEI.
So I have been.
I have a newsletter called FiveThings and a podcast that goes
along with it, called FiveThings in 15 Minutes, and those
five things are always what Iconsider to be good vibes in DEI
, and I started writing it aboutsix years ago, and what I find
are silver linings.
Sometimes it is companiesstanding up when and in the past
(08:32):
I should say I have featured.
You know companies who stood upwhen you know abortion rights
were overturned and they wereproviding travel reimbursements
for their employees travelingout of state, things like that.
You know things that were likeshining lights.
I've everything from firstblack artist to win a country
(08:53):
music award Beyonce or a Grammyfor country music Beyonce.
So that's a good vibe in DEI.
You know some things from thelast Super Bowl.
You know Jalen Hunt's all womenmanagement team, the winning
quarterback right, or JalenHurts.
So those are the types ofthings.
Sometimes they're related tohuman resources policies and
(09:15):
benefits.
Sometimes they're related topublic policies or
anti-discrimination laws thatare passed.
Sometimes they're aboutproducts and marketing.
John Neral (09:26):
When you watch or you read the news or you're
following on social media andyou're seeing the conversations
that are out there around DEI.
What is it that you believepeople are simply missing or
overlooking around theimportance of DEI?
Bernadette Smith (09:49):
I think a lot of folks misunderstand what it
means.
That's sort of the first thingI of weaponized um, but what
it's really about is making surethat we remember that our world
(10:18):
is diverse, you know, and it'sincreasingly diverse, and we
want to be able to seize thepotential of that diversity
right and essentially capitalizeon it, benefit from it.
But we don't get there withoutequity and inclusion right, and
(10:39):
so equity and inclusion are sortof the steps that can harness
the power of diversity andbenefit everyone.
John Neral (10:48):
Absolutely, and we're certainly seeing some
companies stand up and continueto support their DEI initiatives
where others are dismantling,letting them go, not putting
that kind of focus as they oncewere.
Yeah, um, you were.
(11:08):
It was interesting.
You were talking about theSuperbowl and Jalen Hurts's all
female management team and I waslike, oh, and what kind of
popped up for me around that was.
Uh, there was a, arepresentative I'm not going to
say her name, um, but shetweeted out, said you know
something to the fact of doesanybody get this halftime show?
(11:29):
Can we have subtitles?
And those comments were alllike that's DEI, right?
That's one of those kinds ofthings there.
Equity let's talk about equityfor a second, because in the
workplace, especially for amid-career professional,
(11:49):
somebody who is leading teams orthey're leading departments or
organizations, what are some ofthe things, especially by law,
but also simply based onawareness, should they be
focused around equity?
Bernadette Smith (12:08):
Yeah, so in terms of creating a more
equitable environment for othersor leveraging themselves?
John Neral (12:17):
Let's start with for others first.
Bernadette Smith (12:20):
Well, I think when we think about equity,
let's first define it, which isessentially setting others up
for success, or setting peopleup for success keeping in mind
their individual circumstancesor their individual backgrounds,
right.
And so equity can look likeopportunities for those who have
(12:42):
experienced a lot of systemicoppression.
So we've seen, you know,incubator programs and
scholarships and sponsorships.
Those are all examples ofequity.
And scholarships andsponsorships, those are all
examples of equity.
So, specifically for a midcareer professional, I think I
would lean into mentorship andsponsorship.
I think those are sort of thebest places to be able to pay it
(13:04):
forward to others, especiallygiven the wisdom of your own
experience.
John Neral (13:10):
Hey there.
Have you ever been hesitant tolike a LinkedIn post about
finding a new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
Since you're already listeningto this podcast, I want to help
you get an even bigger win inyour career and to do that, I'm
inviting you to join my freeemail community and subscribe to
(13:35):
the Mid-Career GPS newsletter.
It's delivered to your inboxtwice each week with helpful
tips, strategies and resourcesto help you find that job you
love or love the job you have.
It's all free and you cansubscribe by visiting my website
at johnneral.
com.
Check the show notes or myLinkedIn.
(13:57):
For now, let's get back to theepisode.
I don't even want to say yearsago, because I got to catch
myself here, because I findmyself saying that phrase and
I'm like no, we need to keepremembering that, right?
So the words that come up forme are representation matters.
Right, we see people who are atthe table who represent us.
(14:18):
They look like us, they arelike us and things like that.
And one of the things Irepeatedly hear from my clients
and people in my network who, tocharacterize them, they are big
hearted, heart centricindividuals.
(14:38):
They don't want to make amistake, they don't want to
screw up, they don't want tooffend, and so one of the things
that will come up is they'llsometimes get caught with
unintentionally making anassumption and now they feel
like they have to over-apologizebecause they didn't mean to do
(14:58):
that.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout whether that's helpful or
not in the workplace and whatsteps people can do to manage
their assumptions.
Bernadette Smith (15:11):
Yeah, this is a great question.
I talk about this a lot becausewe're unconsciously making
assumptions about others all thetime, about their potential,
about their fit, about what wethink is happening in their
personal life.
I mean, we do it all the time,but those assumptions can
prevent us from establishinggenuine connection, and I think
(15:32):
we've gotten ourselves,unfortunately, into this place
with cancel culture, wherepeople are so afraid of saying
the wrong thing, they're afraidof getting it wrong, and so they
tend to stay in their own laneand, because they don't want to
accidentally offend someone,they don't say anything.
And so really the trick here,especially if you've made a
mistaken assumption and you needto apologize, is do not over
(15:56):
apologize.
First of all, apologize once,keep it really simple and then
move on, change the subject andthen make sure you get it better
next time.
But really don't over apologize, because then that puts the
(16:18):
person that you've accidentallyoffended in a position of you
know, do they have to thencomfort you it?
John Neral (16:26):
just makes it all the more awkward.
Yeah, I could.
I could see that playing out inmy mind, even from from my
experiences.
In some way where you feel likeyou have to overcompensate and
now the energy just shifts andit's not good.
Bernadette Smith (16:40):
Exactly, exactly.
John Neral (16:58):
And then that becomes a barrier.
Us an example before, but canyou give us another one?
Just in terms of what thatmight sound like for somebody to
give that simple and sincereapology apology.
Bernadette Smith (17:15):
I'm so sorry.
I'm working on this.
You know this is this is new tome, but I'm going to get it
right and and really someversion of that, honestly,
whatever's going to be authenticto you, but some version of
that and then ultimately changethe subject.
Listen, I do this with mypartner all the time.
I did it last night, you know Ihad to apologize for something.
I did it last night, you know Ihad to apologize for something,
(17:36):
but I didn't want to sit inthat misery.
You know it works in all sortsof scenarios, right?
But I think that the bottomline is we have to be sincere,
we have to commit to doingbetter, but no one wants the
discomfort to linger.
John Neral (17:51):
No, thank you for that, bernadette.
Something else that you talkabout that really resonated for
me in prepping for ourconversation.
You talk about kind curiosity,and I'd love for you to dig a
little more deeply with that forour listeners today exactly
what is kind curiosity and whyshould people be doing it?
Bernadette Smith (18:14):
Yeah, kind curiosity is so important,
especially as we have kind ofthese silos around us.
You know, like I said, I thinkwe tend to stay in our lanes a
lot of times.
Our personal and ourprofessional networks are people
who check similar demographicboxes to the ones we check.
Works, are people who checksimilar demographic boxes to the
(18:35):
ones we check, and that meansthat we're not listen,
leveraging diversity, we're notexpanding our worldview, we're
not having access to others'experiences and we're not having
as much fun, let's be honest.
But the antidote to all of thatis kind curiosity, and I have a
tool called the ARC method,which stands for Ask, respect,
connect.
We always want to ask from aplace of kind curiosity.
(18:57):
So maybe that starts withsharing a little bit of your own
experience first.
And we know, for example, inthe workplace you might have
someone who seems to bestruggling, maybe they're
missing deadlines, you don'tknow why.
Start with kind curiosity,start with maybe sharing a
little bit of your ownexperience.
Hey, you know it's been reallystrange around here lately, lots
of changes.
(19:18):
How are you holding up?
It's been stressful for me,how's it been for you?
Kind curiosity, but then youwant to respect what you hear.
That's the R, and then C issort of tie it all together and
connect by maybe paraphrasing orvalidating.
So that's the ARC method.
John Neral (19:35):
So ask, respect connect.
Bernadette Smith (19:38):
Connect yes.
John Neral (19:39):
A-R-C and you do a lot of work with sales
professionals, particularlyusing this ARC method correct?
Bernadette Smith (19:49):
Yeah, I love speaking with folks in sales and
client facing roles because youknow they they in particular
are are interacting with anincreasingly diverse client base
, right, and so I want to helpthem build authentic
relationships that they cansustain with their increasingly
diverse clients.
And again, they tend to be theycan be a little bit tight
(20:11):
because they're afraid of sayingthe wrong thing.
They tend to be they can be alittle bit tight because they're
afraid of saying the wrongthing.
They might feel like they'rewalking on eggshells.
But if they bring the arcmethod, if they use kind
curiosity, they can have moremeaningful relationships, more
meaningful client relationships.
John Neral (20:27):
Do you have a success story to share with us
about?
How, be it either through oneof your speaking engagements or
one of your corporaterelationships, if you will, that
kind curiosity or the ARCmethod were adopted that yielded
some great results?
Bernadette Smith (21:09):
no-transcript.
We can also have morepsychological safety, and
psychological safety is a hugedriver of team performance and
innovation.
John Neral (21:24):
Nice, that's good to hear.
So, for the people who arelistening, they may work in an
organization that has changedtheir DEI policy, yeah, and they
may be allies toward a lot ofdifferent cultures, communities.
(21:45):
Um, what advice would you givethem specifically for how they
might show up in an organizationwhere, culturally, the
organization's beliefs don'tentirely align with theirs?
Bernadette Smith (22:06):
Yeah, I think that that's a struggle that a
lot of people are feeling rightnow.
Attention, it's causing a lotof distrust in the workplace
distrust of their employer.
I think that the importantthing to do right now is to
focus on our relationships, tofocus on building authentic
(22:26):
connections, and it's a greatopportunity to reach out to
people on your team or peoplewithin your department or
function who maybe you don'tknow as well, who might be
having a hard time through allthis.
It's a great time to show yourown um, show your own wisdom,
show your own compassion and andstrengthen relationships.
(22:48):
Um, I think that's what we needto focus on is our
relationships.
John Neral (22:53):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
It's such a great point becausewhen I think back, especially
with the teams that I've ledthroughout my career, people
make judgments, people makecomparisons, especially if
you're on a team where there'sother managers in that same role
.
Bernadette Smith (23:13):
And.
John Neral (23:13):
I would always say look, if you're on my team, this
is how I show up, this is how Ilead, this is what I do.
Other people do it differently,but this is how we play here
and whenever we're in this space, this is how we play, and some
people above me were okay withthat and some people were like
(23:34):
I'm like doesn't matter, my team, my roles, you know, and this
is the roles that we createtogether.
Bernadette Smith (23:40):
In that regard , yeah, and I'm sure the people
on your team loved you for thatright.
John Neral (23:46):
I definitely can say there were.
There were a lot of people whomI've had the chance to work
with and work alongside of thatdefinitely appreciated that, for
for the very simple reason youhighlighted earlier, which was
about creating that safe spacefor them.
Bernadette Smith (24:00):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Neral (24:03):
Bernadette I, I, you know, maybe your crystal ball's
functioning or it's brokenright now or whatever.
I don't know specifically.
But I'd be remissed if I didn'task you to kind of think a
little forward with us for amoment in terms of where this
DEI conversation is heading andif we're going to continue to
(24:27):
find those good vibes in DEI forthose people who are allies and
support DEI for what it trulyis.
What does this look like,moving forward?
Bernadette Smith (24:41):
Well, you know , I think that if we look at the
history of the world, it'salways progress and regression,
and progress and regression,right.
And so, you know, I'mcompletely of the belief that we
ultimately have to keep movingforward and look at how are we
loving each other, how are weshowing up for each other?
(25:02):
And that's what the heart ofDEI is all about.
It's about being better humansand setting other people up for
success, setting ourselves upfor greater success, and so who
doesn't want that?
But we might have to change thewords, we might have to think
about how we can do things alittle more differently, or
(25:22):
measure things differently.
Measure the impact, show theimpact, communicate it
differently, all of that stuff.
There's room for improvement, alot of room for improvement,
but ultimately, I think that thework is still going to need to
be done, and and so I'm I'm herefor it, my team is here for it,
and I know a lot of otherpeople are as well.
(25:43):
So, even if I'm, even if I'mshouting out on my newsletter
firsts or you know things thatseem kind of trivial, I will
take all the good vibes I canget and share them widely.
Nice Now more than ever.
John Neral (25:59):
Absolutely Thank you for that.
Who are the people in thisspace that you tend to look
toward and lean toward asleaders in this space, such as
yourself?
Bernadette Smith (26:11):
So my firm is called Equality Institute but I
would say, you know, follow LilyZhang on LinkedIn.
They are a great pragmaticleader.
They have amazing thoughtleadership, so I would say
follow them.
They just wrote a great articlefor the Harvard Business Review
(26:31):
about sort of the future of DEIthat I would encourage folks to
check out.
John Neral (26:36):
Will do.
I will find that and make surethat's in the show notes as well
.
Bernadette, thank you so muchfor having this conversation
with me and with all of us todayas we start wrapping up here.
Whether it be something you'vealready shared or something you
haven't, what's one piece ofadvice or suggestion you'd love
to give everybody to help thembuild their mid-career GPS?
Bernadette Smith (26:59):
Leverage your relationships, reconnect with
folks and be a resource forothers.
People are afraid of asking forhelp, but asking for help
brings people closer together.
So don't be afraid to askpeople in your world for help,
to show them and to show themthat you're available.
(27:20):
So really leverage yourconnections, leverage your
network by asking for help.
John Neral (27:29):
That's very sound and much needed advice, so thank
you for that.
I appreciate it.
Bernadette, if people want toconnect with you, find you learn
more about you.
I'm going to turn the mic overto you right now.
Please tell us all the greatplaces where people can connect.
Bernadette Smith (27:44):
You can find more about my speaking business
and my firm atBernadetteSmithcom and to get
the Five Things newsletter, youcan subscribe at
FiveThingsDEIcom and check outthe podcast Five Things in 15
Minutes, anywhere you listen topodcasts.
John Neral (28:01):
I will make sure all of that is in the show notes.
Bernadette Smith, thank you somuch for this conversation.
Thank you for being a greatguest on the Mid-Career GPS
podcast.
Bernadette Smith (28:10):
My pleasure, John.
Thanks so much for having me.
John Neral (28:13):
Absolutely so.
My friends, this was a muchneeded conversation we needed to
have today and I thank you forsticking with us and listening
to all of this.
If there's one big takeawaythat I have here, it's really
it's Bernadette's tactic aboutshowing up from a place of kind
(28:33):
curiosity, you know, being thatperson, that ally, that support,
that leader within yourorganization and your life,
where you can ask respect andconnect and use that to build
those relationships.
Because, as you're buildingyour mid-career GPS, we know
(28:54):
time and time again that it isthe relationships you build
along the way that those peoplebecome huge advocates for the
work you are doing.
And in this job market rightnow, how you stand out, how you
are different, how are you beingthat light for other people, in
addition to the quality of thework you are doing, will
(29:17):
absolutely continue to get younoticed.
So until next time, my friends,remember this, you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters Make it a greatrest of your day.
How you show up matters, makeit a great rest of your day.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS podcast.
(29:37):
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
(29:58):
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank, you.
This year, we have seen tremendous changes around
the conversation on DEI.
Yes, we can still talk about itand we will, in this episode,
see.
As mid-career leaders andprofessionals, I know that one
of your biggest concerns is thatyou don't want to make a
mistake.
And what if that mistakeresulted in you potentially
(00:24):
being canceled?
How could you show up withmeaningful intentions and
without fear of being canceledor doing irreputable harm to
your career?
You show up from a place thatmy guest today calls kind
curiosity.
Today, I am joined by BernadetteSmith, the CEO of the Equality
(00:47):
Institute, who is here to talkto us about what it means to
have good vibes in DEI,especially in today's world.
She'll also talk to us aboutwhat DEI truly is, how
unconscious assumptions can behandled.
How unconscious assumptions canbe handled.
She'll share with us her ARCmethod for handling any
(01:08):
situation and why her love ofpickleball has been a great
source of connecting with others.
So let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
Bernadette Smith, the CEO, usehumor and relatability to
(02:06):
inspire meaningful action,winning over even the skeptics.
Praised as relatable, authenticand fun, Bernadette's approach
has earned the trust of leadingbrands, including Fortune 500
companies and global leadershipteams.
Her influence as a champion forinclusion and belonging has
(02:29):
been spotlighted by the New YorkTimes, National Public Radio,
CNN and the Today Show, andshe's been named one of
Chicago's notable LGBTQexecutives by Crane's Chicago
Business.
So it is my pleasure tointroduce you to Bernadette
Smith.
Bernadette, welcome to thepodcast.
(02:50):
It's great to have you heretoday.
Bernadette Smith (02:52):
Thanks, John.
It's a treat to be invited, yeswe're going to have a great
conversation.
John Neral (02:57):
I appreciate you being here with us today,
because this whole conversationaround DEI is one that we need
to have and we're going to talkabout it.
Your journey, however, isinteresting to say the least.
You've got a pretty powerfulmid-career moment I would love
for you to share with us.
Bernadette Smith (03:16):
Well, I used to be a wedding planner with an
LGBTQ specialty and now I own asmall management consulting firm
and I'm a speaker and writer.
That's what I love to do isspeak and write, so I left the
weddings behind.
Do you miss it?
Well, I certainly didn't missit during COVID, let's be honest
(03:38):
.
But no, I don't miss it at all.
In fact, I don't really evenhave those skills anymore.
I'm not nearly as organized asI used to be.
(03:59):
It's like those skills fadedaway and now I really think that
I've sort of, and I am, avisionary person.
It's just that the businessthat I chose happened to be
wedding planning, which requiresa lot of attention to detail.
John Neral (04:13):
Without question and I love how you bring up that
sometimes our skills transitionand we don't.
When we don't use thoseparticularly skills, we're not
as good at them that we would benow, as opposed to when we were
years ago.
Bernadette Smith (04:27):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Neral (04:30):
I say the same thing because I used to teach
mathematics and friends will belike can you tutor my kid?
I'm like it's been 15 yearssince I've done it.
I could probably but it's notsomething I want to do, right?
So you kind of have to keepworking those, those muscles and
stuff.
I don't want to.
I don't want to save this untilthe end, because this is just
(04:51):
an interesting fact that you andI had talked about in our
pre-call.
But you love pickleball and I'mwondering if you can just share
with us like what's been thatfor you, especially as an outlet
, but also as for potentiallynetworking.
Bernadette Smith (05:08):
Yeah, so pickleball is a passion of mine.
I play probably six times aweek in the summer or when it's
warm out, and then right now I'mplaying three or four times a
week.
You know I I love it becauseit's the first hobby I've ever
had.
You know, I've been anentrepreneur for 20 years and
(05:30):
that has required a lot ofhustle, energy, a lot of
obsession with my business in anunhealthy way, and I didn't
have an outlet that had everreally stuck before and nothing
really interested me or stuck.
But as soon as I playedpickleball for the first time,
it was an obsession and itrelates to diversity, equity and
inclusion, and so it's sort ofgiven me a lot of stories as
(05:50):
well and a good opportunity tomeet folks and to network.
So, yeah, it's definitely it's.
It brings me into worlds that Iwouldn't otherwise find.
John Neral (06:01):
Talk to us a little bit about how Pickleball
connects to DEI for you.
Bernadette Smith (06:06):
Sure.
So a lot of Pickleball isplayed in open play, which is
essentially like a pickup gameyou never know quite who's going
to be there and so it can be anopportunity to meet lots of
different kinds of folks, andone of the first experiences I
had was, you know, gettingdecently good at pickleball and
(06:27):
having starting to have someswagger and some confidence, and
then getting my, my butt beatby a bunch of 70 year olds,
right.
So learning that I'm ageist onthe pickleball court is
certainly, you know, kind of alesson in inclusion or a lesson
even in, you know, my own biases, right.
And so the pickleball brings somany different kinds of people
(06:51):
together.
You know that's the diversity,and, and I've even played with
people in wheelchairs, so it's,it's really been a gift.
A gift Lots of amazing folks, Imean.
Yeah.
John Neral (07:03):
No, thank you.
Thank you for sharing that, andlet's never underestimate the
power of a 70-year-old who'sreally good at pickleball or
other things as well.
Bernadette, I want to let ourlisteners in here, so you and I
are recording this episode onFebruary 20th.
This episode is scheduled todrop in early April and it goes
(07:25):
without question that theconversation around diversity,
equity and inclusion has been abig topic and focus, especially
in the first quarter of thisyear.
In your bio and I mentionedthis a little bit in the
introduction but your intentionis to shine the light on good
(07:46):
vibes in DEI and inspire othersto connect authentically with
those different from themselves,and I love how you phrase that.
But can you let us in in termsof what are good vibes in DEI to
you?
Bernadette Smith (08:06):
what are good vibes in DEI to you?
Oh, good vibes in DEI.
So I have been.
I have a newsletter called FiveThings and a podcast that goes
along with it, called FiveThings in 15 Minutes, and those
five things are always what Iconsider to be good vibes in DEI
, and I started writing it aboutsix years ago, and what I find
are silver linings.
Sometimes it is companiesstanding up when and in the past
(08:32):
I should say I have featured.
You know companies who stood upwhen you know abortion rights
were overturned and they wereproviding travel reimbursements
for their employees travelingout of state, things like that.
You know things that were likeshining lights.
I've everything from firstblack artist to win a country
(08:53):
music award Beyonce or a Grammyfor country music Beyonce.
So that's a good vibe in DEI.
You know some things from thelast Super Bowl.
You know Jalen Hunt's all womenmanagement team, the winning
quarterback right, or JalenHurts.
So those are the types ofthings.
Sometimes they're related tohuman resources policies and
(09:15):
benefits.
Sometimes they're related topublic policies or
anti-discrimination laws thatare passed.
Sometimes they're aboutproducts and marketing.
John Neral (09:26):
When you watch or you read the news or you're
following on social media andyou're seeing the conversations
that are out there around DEI.
What is it that you believepeople are simply missing or
overlooking around theimportance of DEI?
Bernadette Smith (09:49):
I think a lot of folks misunderstand what it
means.
That's sort of the first thingI of weaponized um, but what
it's really about is making surethat we remember that our world
(10:18):
is diverse, you know, and it'sincreasingly diverse, and we
want to be able to seize thepotential of that diversity
right and essentially capitalizeon it, benefit from it.
But we don't get there withoutequity and inclusion right, and
(10:39):
so equity and inclusion are sortof the steps that can harness
the power of diversity andbenefit everyone.
John Neral (10:48):
Absolutely, and we're certainly seeing some
companies stand up and continueto support their DEI initiatives
where others are dismantling,letting them go, not putting
that kind of focus as they oncewere.
Yeah, um, you were.
(11:08):
It was interesting.
You were talking about theSuperbowl and Jalen Hurts's all
female management team and I waslike, oh, and what kind of
popped up for me around that was.
Uh, there was a, arepresentative I'm not going to
say her name, um, but shetweeted out, said you know
something to the fact of doesanybody get this halftime show?
(11:29):
Can we have subtitles?
And those comments were alllike that's DEI, right?
That's one of those kinds ofthings there.
Equity let's talk about equityfor a second, because in the
workplace, especially for amid-career professional,
(11:49):
somebody who is leading teams orthey're leading departments or
organizations, what are some ofthe things, especially by law,
but also simply based onawareness, should they be
focused around equity?
Bernadette Smith (12:08):
Yeah, so in terms of creating a more
equitable environment for othersor leveraging themselves?
John Neral (12:17):
Let's start with for others first.
Bernadette Smith (12:20):
Well, I think when we think about equity,
let's first define it, which isessentially setting others up
for success, or setting peopleup for success keeping in mind
their individual circumstancesor their individual backgrounds,
right.
And so equity can look likeopportunities for those who have
(12:42):
experienced a lot of systemicoppression.
So we've seen, you know,incubator programs and
scholarships and sponsorships.
Those are all examples ofequity.
And scholarships andsponsorships, those are all
examples of equity.
So, specifically for a midcareer professional, I think I
would lean into mentorship andsponsorship.
I think those are sort of thebest places to be able to pay it
(13:04):
forward to others, especiallygiven the wisdom of your own
experience.
John Neral (13:10):
Hey there.
Have you ever been hesitant tolike a LinkedIn post about
finding a new job because you'refearful of being seen by your
employer or colleague?
I get it.
I see you, my friend.
Since you're already listeningto this podcast, I want to help
you get an even bigger win inyour career and to do that, I'm
inviting you to join my freeemail community and subscribe to
(13:35):
the Mid-Career GPS newsletter.
It's delivered to your inboxtwice each week with helpful
tips, strategies and resourcesto help you find that job you
love or love the job you have.
It's all free and you cansubscribe by visiting my website
at johnneral.
com.
Check the show notes or myLinkedIn.
(13:57):
For now, let's get back to theepisode.
I don't even want to say yearsago, because I got to catch
myself here, because I findmyself saying that phrase and
I'm like no, we need to keepremembering that, right?
So the words that come up forme are representation matters.
Right, we see people who are atthe table who represent us.
(14:18):
They look like us, they arelike us and things like that.
And one of the things Irepeatedly hear from my clients
and people in my network who, tocharacterize them, they are big
hearted, heart centricindividuals.
(14:38):
They don't want to make amistake, they don't want to
screw up, they don't want tooffend, and so one of the things
that will come up is they'llsometimes get caught with
unintentionally making anassumption and now they feel
like they have to over-apologizebecause they didn't mean to do
(14:58):
that.
Can you talk to us a little bitabout whether that's helpful or
not in the workplace and whatsteps people can do to manage
their assumptions.
Bernadette Smith (15:11):
Yeah, this is a great question.
I talk about this a lot becausewe're unconsciously making
assumptions about others all thetime, about their potential,
about their fit, about what wethink is happening in their
personal life.
I mean, we do it all the time,but those assumptions can
prevent us from establishinggenuine connection, and I think
(15:32):
we've gotten ourselves,unfortunately, into this place
with cancel culture, wherepeople are so afraid of saying
the wrong thing, they're afraidof getting it wrong, and so they
tend to stay in their own laneand, because they don't want to
accidentally offend someone,they don't say anything.
And so really the trick here,especially if you've made a
mistaken assumption and you needto apologize, is do not over
(15:56):
apologize.
First of all, apologize once,keep it really simple and then
move on, change the subject andthen make sure you get it better
next time.
But really don't over apologize, because then that puts the
(16:18):
person that you've accidentallyoffended in a position of you
know, do they have to thencomfort you it?
John Neral (16:26):
just makes it all the more awkward.
Yeah, I could.
I could see that playing out inmy mind, even from from my
experiences.
In some way where you feel likeyou have to overcompensate and
now the energy just shifts andit's not good.
Bernadette Smith (16:40):
Exactly, exactly.
John Neral (16:58):
And then that becomes a barrier.
Us an example before, but canyou give us another one?
Just in terms of what thatmight sound like for somebody to
give that simple and sincereapology apology.
Bernadette Smith (17:15):
I'm so sorry.
I'm working on this.
You know this is this is new tome, but I'm going to get it
right and and really someversion of that, honestly,
whatever's going to be authenticto you, but some version of
that and then ultimately changethe subject.
Listen, I do this with mypartner all the time.
I did it last night, you know Ihad to apologize for something.
I did it last night, you know Ihad to apologize for something,
(17:36):
but I didn't want to sit inthat misery.
You know it works in all sortsof scenarios, right?
But I think that the bottomline is we have to be sincere,
we have to commit to doingbetter, but no one wants the
discomfort to linger.
John Neral (17:51):
No, thank you for that, bernadette.
Something else that you talkabout that really resonated for
me in prepping for ourconversation.
You talk about kind curiosity,and I'd love for you to dig a
little more deeply with that forour listeners today exactly
what is kind curiosity and whyshould people be doing it?
Bernadette Smith (18:14):
Yeah, kind curiosity is so important,
especially as we have kind ofthese silos around us.
You know, like I said, I thinkwe tend to stay in our lanes a
lot of times.
Our personal and ourprofessional networks are people
who check similar demographicboxes to the ones we check.
Works, are people who checksimilar demographic boxes to the
(18:35):
ones we check, and that meansthat we're not listen,
leveraging diversity, we're notexpanding our worldview, we're
not having access to others'experiences and we're not having
as much fun, let's be honest.
But the antidote to all of thatis kind curiosity, and I have a
tool called the ARC method,which stands for Ask, respect,
connect.
We always want to ask from aplace of kind curiosity.
(18:57):
So maybe that starts withsharing a little bit of your own
experience first.
And we know, for example, inthe workplace you might have
someone who seems to bestruggling, maybe they're
missing deadlines, you don'tknow why.
Start with kind curiosity,start with maybe sharing a
little bit of your ownexperience.
Hey, you know it's been reallystrange around here lately, lots
of changes.
(19:18):
How are you holding up?
It's been stressful for me,how's it been for you?
Kind curiosity, but then youwant to respect what you hear.
That's the R, and then C issort of tie it all together and
connect by maybe paraphrasing orvalidating.
So that's the ARC method.
John Neral (19:35):
So ask, respect connect.
Bernadette Smith (19:38):
Connect yes.
John Neral (19:39):
A-R-C and you do a lot of work with sales
professionals, particularlyusing this ARC method correct?
Bernadette Smith (19:49):
Yeah, I love speaking with folks in sales and
client facing roles because youknow they they in particular
are are interacting with anincreasingly diverse client base
, right, and so I want to helpthem build authentic
relationships that they cansustain with their increasingly
diverse clients.
And again, they tend to be theycan be a little bit tight
(20:11):
because they're afraid of sayingthe wrong thing.
They tend to be they can be alittle bit tight because they're
afraid of saying the wrongthing.
They might feel like they'rewalking on eggshells.
But if they bring the arcmethod, if they use kind
curiosity, they can have moremeaningful relationships, more
meaningful client relationships.
John Neral (20:27):
Do you have a success story to share with us
about?
How, be it either through oneof your speaking engagements or
one of your corporaterelationships, if you will, that
kind curiosity or the ARCmethod were adopted that yielded
some great results?
Bernadette Smith (21:09):
no-transcript.
We can also have morepsychological safety, and
psychological safety is a hugedriver of team performance and
innovation.
John Neral (21:24):
Nice, that's good to hear.
So, for the people who arelistening, they may work in an
organization that has changedtheir DEI policy, yeah, and they
may be allies toward a lot ofdifferent cultures, communities.
(21:45):
Um, what advice would you givethem specifically for how they
might show up in an organizationwhere, culturally, the
organization's beliefs don'tentirely align with theirs?
Bernadette Smith (22:06):
Yeah, I think that that's a struggle that a
lot of people are feeling rightnow.
Attention, it's causing a lotof distrust in the workplace
distrust of their employer.
I think that the importantthing to do right now is to
focus on our relationships, tofocus on building authentic
(22:26):
connections, and it's a greatopportunity to reach out to
people on your team or peoplewithin your department or
function who maybe you don'tknow as well, who might be
having a hard time through allthis.
It's a great time to show yourown um, show your own wisdom,
show your own compassion and andstrengthen relationships.
(22:48):
Um, I think that's what we needto focus on is our
relationships.
John Neral (22:53):
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
It's such a great point becausewhen I think back, especially
with the teams that I've ledthroughout my career, people
make judgments, people makecomparisons, especially if
you're on a team where there'sother managers in that same role
.
Bernadette Smith (23:13):
And.
John Neral (23:13):
I would always say look, if you're on my team, this
is how I show up, this is how Ilead, this is what I do.
Other people do it differently,but this is how we play here
and whenever we're in this space, this is how we play, and some
people above me were okay withthat and some people were like
(23:34):
I'm like doesn't matter, my team, my roles, you know, and this
is the roles that we createtogether.
Bernadette Smith (23:40):
In that regard , yeah, and I'm sure the people
on your team loved you for thatright.
John Neral (23:46):
I definitely can say there were.
There were a lot of people whomI've had the chance to work
with and work alongside of thatdefinitely appreciated that, for
for the very simple reason youhighlighted earlier, which was
about creating that safe spacefor them.
Bernadette Smith (24:00):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Neral (24:03):
Bernadette I, I, you know, maybe your crystal ball's
functioning or it's brokenright now or whatever.
I don't know specifically.
But I'd be remissed if I didn'task you to kind of think a
little forward with us for amoment in terms of where this
DEI conversation is heading andif we're going to continue to
(24:27):
find those good vibes in DEI forthose people who are allies and
support DEI for what it trulyis.
What does this look like,moving forward?
Bernadette Smith (24:41):
Well, you know , I think that if we look at the
history of the world, it'salways progress and regression,
and progress and regression,right.
And so, you know, I'mcompletely of the belief that we
ultimately have to keep movingforward and look at how are we
loving each other, how are weshowing up for each other?
(25:02):
And that's what the heart ofDEI is all about.
It's about being better humansand setting other people up for
success, setting ourselves upfor greater success, and so who
doesn't want that?
But we might have to change thewords, we might have to think
about how we can do things alittle more differently, or
(25:22):
measure things differently.
Measure the impact, show theimpact, communicate it
differently, all of that stuff.
There's room for improvement, alot of room for improvement,
but ultimately, I think that thework is still going to need to
be done, and and so I'm I'm herefor it, my team is here for it,
and I know a lot of otherpeople are as well.
(25:43):
So, even if I'm, even if I'mshouting out on my newsletter
firsts or you know things thatseem kind of trivial, I will
take all the good vibes I canget and share them widely.
Nice Now more than ever.
John Neral (25:59):
Absolutely Thank you for that.
Who are the people in thisspace that you tend to look
toward and lean toward asleaders in this space, such as
yourself?
Bernadette Smith (26:11):
So my firm is called Equality Institute but I
would say, you know, follow LilyZhang on LinkedIn.
They are a great pragmaticleader.
They have amazing thoughtleadership, so I would say
follow them.
They just wrote a great articlefor the Harvard Business Review
(26:31):
about sort of the future of DEIthat I would encourage folks to
check out.
John Neral (26:36):
Will do.
I will find that and make surethat's in the show notes as well
.
Bernadette, thank you so muchfor having this conversation
with me and with all of us todayas we start wrapping up here.
Whether it be something you'vealready shared or something you
haven't, what's one piece ofadvice or suggestion you'd love
to give everybody to help thembuild their mid-career GPS?
Bernadette Smith (26:59):
Leverage your relationships, reconnect with
folks and be a resource forothers.
People are afraid of asking forhelp, but asking for help
brings people closer together.
So don't be afraid to askpeople in your world for help,
to show them and to show themthat you're available.
(27:20):
So really leverage yourconnections, leverage your
network by asking for help.
John Neral (27:29):
That's very sound and much needed advice, so thank
you for that.
I appreciate it.
Bernadette, if people want toconnect with you, find you learn
more about you.
I'm going to turn the mic overto you right now.
Please tell us all the greatplaces where people can connect.
Bernadette Smith (27:44):
You can find more about my speaking business
and my firm atBernadetteSmithcom and to get
the Five Things newsletter, youcan subscribe at
FiveThingsDEIcom and check outthe podcast Five Things in 15
Minutes, anywhere you listen topodcasts.
John Neral (28:01):
I will make sure all of that is in the show notes.
Bernadette Smith, thank you somuch for this conversation.
Thank you for being a greatguest on the Mid-Career GPS
podcast.
Bernadette Smith (28:10):
My pleasure, John.
Thanks so much for having me.
John Neral (28:13):
Absolutely so.
My friends, this was a muchneeded conversation we needed to
have today and I thank you forsticking with us and listening
to all of this.
If there's one big takeawaythat I have here, it's really
it's Bernadette's tactic aboutshowing up from a place of kind
(28:33):
curiosity, you know, being thatperson, that ally, that support,
that leader within yourorganization and your life,
where you can ask respect andconnect and use that to build
those relationships.
Because, as you're buildingyour mid-career GPS, we know
(28:54):
time and time again that it isthe relationships you build
along the way that those peoplebecome huge advocates for the
work you are doing.
And in this job market rightnow, how you stand out, how you
are different, how are you beingthat light for other people, in
addition to the quality of thework you are doing, will
(29:17):
absolutely continue to get younoticed.
So until next time, my friends,remember this, you will build
your mid-career GPS one mile orone step at a time, and how you
show up matters Make it a greatrest of your day.
How you show up matters, makeit a great rest of your day.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS podcast.
(29:37):
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
podcasts.
Visit johnnerrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
(29:58):
social at John Darrell Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank, you.
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