Navigating a job loss or corporate shakeup? In this must-listen episode, career expert John Neral explains the real differences between restructuring, reorganization, layoffs, and RIFs, and how mid-career professionals can stay grounded through uncertain times.
Whether you're affected by government DOGE initiatives, private-sector downsizing, or just sensing change ahead, you'll learn how to:
- Recognize what you can control
- Protect your well-being and set strong boundaries
- Understand how leadership makes tough calls
- Prepare a solid career contingency plan
- Identify your transferable skills and stay marketable
- Build financial security and emotional resilience
This episode offers clarity, compassion, and concrete steps to help you weather workplace change and protect your career.
Learn more and join the Mid-Career GPS Membership Community for coaching, resources, and support: johnneral.com/membership
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Neral (00:00):
Change.
It's unavoidable, but in thisjob market, how do you
effectively implement it?
Everyone reacts to changedifferently, and dealing with
change has been a frequent topicacross many of my coaching
conversations, because so manyof my clients are experiencing
(00:20):
uncertain and chaotic changeduring their mid-career journey,
and whether they be a client ora professional connection.
Here are just some of theemotions they're experiencing
Resentment, anger, fear,opportunity, excitement.
(00:41):
These are all valid emotionsand reactions to whatever change
may be happening inside oftheir organizations, and that's
why, in this episode, I'm takingsome time with you this week to
help you examine organizationalchange through the lenses of
your leadership, your managementand yourself, to help you
(01:02):
navigate any potentialreorganization, restructuring,
layoff or riff.
I have been all sides of it andit is about to get real, so
let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
If you didn't get a chance tohear last week's episode, I had
an exciting announcement aboutlaunching my brand new
membership community.
It is called the Mid-Career GPSMembership Community and it is
(01:54):
for mid-career professionalslike you who are looking for
support, information, resourcesand tools to help you navigate
toward whatever is next for youand your career, as well as your
leadership journey.
So if you want to learn moreabout the membership community
and come on in, all you have todo is go to my website,
(02:15):
johnneral.
com/membership to read all thedetails.
There is a monthly subscriptionoption as well as a yearly
subscription option, and I lookforward to seeing you inside.
Now for this week's topic, thisone.
I gotta say it's been a littledifficult to plan in some ways,
(02:35):
because it seems like everythingis changing so much, and so
what I wanted to do this weekwas to just take a look at some
of the changes that arehappening in this job market and
give you some information tohelp you plan or strategize what
potentially your next move maybe.
So we're going to talk aboutfour things right off the bat.
(02:58):
It's reorganization,restructuring, layoffs and rifts
reorganization, restructuring,layoffs and rifts.
So when it comes toreorganization and restructuring
, a lot of times they are oftenused interchangeably, but there
are some slight differences,especially in a business context
.
So when you think about yourorganization, if it is going
(03:21):
through a restructuring, whatthat basically means it
essentially is a comprehensiveor complete overhaul of your
company's structure, operationand strategy.
I like to think of areorganization as tearing
everything down and building itback up again, and when that
(03:44):
happens, some parts are kept,some parts are not, and so it is
an opportunity to look ateverything from a 30,000-foot
view, as well as from groundzero, to completely restructure
everything within that company.
Now think of a reorganizationas something a little smaller.
(04:08):
Typically a reorganizationtargets a particular division or
business unit and there is arestructuring of, let's say,
departments, units, reassigningteams, looking at staffing
numbers and things like that.
So I like to think of arestructuring as it is
(04:31):
completely tearing everythingdown and building it back up,
and a reorganization is taking asmall part of the organization
and just formatting it in adifferent way.
But then we got to talk aboutlayoffs and rifts and, as you've
been following the news and,I'm certain, as you've been
following what's happeningwithin your own organization,
(04:52):
layoffs and rifts can sometimesbe used interchangeably.
Here is the difference A layofftypically is temporary, so
while we have seen more and morethat it does tend to lead to a
permanent termination, if youwill, of your employment,
(05:12):
typically we see layoffs.
When it comes to temporaryseasonal employees, you work for
a few months, let's say duringthe holidays, you're laid off.
Layoffs typically are notperformance-based just as much
as RIFs are, but RIF R-I-Fstands for reduction in force
and, as you've been followingthings that, let's say, have
been happening within thefederal government, you have
(05:34):
heard the term RIF used quite abit and what that means is that
is a permanent elimination ofyour job and or your department,
and that can be prettytraumatic.
All of a sudden you've had ajob and now you're left without.
(05:54):
So when you think about what'shappening within your agency or
your organization, you'rethinking about whether they're
going through a restructuring, areorganization, a layoff or a
riff.
Let's just take a moment andlook at this from the leadership
or executive leadership lens.
They're making a businessdecision and typically you are
(06:19):
not involved in anyconversations or decisions, more
than likely at your level.
These are decisions that arehappening above you and, while
you may want to be included, youmay certainly feel as if you're
being left out, and the chancesare you are, and there's a very
specific reason because at yourlevel you are not privy to or
(06:44):
allowed, if you will,organizationally to be included
in those kind of conversations.
This one's really difficult,because so often, when we think
about our thoughts and feelings,about how leadership is
communicating, we can say, oh,they're cold, they're heartless,
they don't care, they didn'tgive any consideration, and, on
(07:07):
some level, I can absolutelyunderstand that.
What I want to offer you,though, is that these decisions
typically are not madecarelessly, and this is not an
easy decision for them.
Not an easy decision for them.
(07:28):
Now.
There are some people, and somepeople in executive leadership
positions, where this justbecomes very transactional, and
it's how they look at thespreadsheet and they look at the
bottom line, and you may be thecasualty of that, and I get
that that, but it's theirthoughts versus your thoughts,
(07:50):
and as much as your thoughts areyou need a job, you need to pay
your bills and everything else.
If the company makes a decisionwhere they cannot afford to keep
you, or they are restructuringto save the company in some way
or cut costs in some way, then,understandably, the decision has
to be made Now from your directmanagement, your immediate
(08:14):
supervisor.
Let's keep in mind they have todeliver some really hard news,
and it is not easy for them.
It is never easy tellingsomeone, they are going to be
losing their job, and oftentimeswhat happens next is for the
people who are being toldthey're being laid off or riffed
(08:37):
and they're losing theiremployment.
They are flooded with a ton ofinformation from HR and the
organization about how they'regoing to continue their benefits
and how long their salary isgoing to be, and what to do with
any kind of investments orpension or retirement account
that they have.
So there's a lot of decisions,all while you are trying to
(09:00):
process that you do not have ajob.
But what if you do?
Let's acknowledge that.
In those situations, you thenhave to figure out all of the
things that are happening whileyou still have a job and how
you're going to get things donewhile perhaps the person sitting
next to you or your work bestieis now no longer employed there
(09:22):
.
So the ton and flood ofemotions that happen in
situations like this cannot beoverlooked, and so when I think
about how we manage that change,it is that delicate balance
between how do you hold spacefor an employee who is staying
(09:44):
with the organization and yetthey still have to get all their
work done because the workflowsdon't stop.
You can't sit around andcomplain and be argumentative
all day.
There comes a time when youhave to get the work done.
But this is an opportunity foryou to show up and be really
clear about what the groundrules are and have those
(10:06):
intentional conversations to ownwhere you are, welcome new
opportunities, use your genius,protect and promote your brand.
Those are my show up sixstrategies to figure out how you
are going to play thissituation moving forward.
As I shared at the top of thisepisode, I have been on both
(10:26):
sides of it.
I have been in those leadershipconversations around
reorganizing and I have been onthe other side of it where I
have been let go from my job orI've been one of the few that
have stayed.
And what I want to share withyou in this moment is this From
(10:47):
a leadership lens.
They want to be transparent,they want to let people have as
much time to make decisions, butI can tell you from my own
personal experiences that I havebeen in conversations where we
have thought we have locked downan org chart, only to change it
(11:09):
the next day.
So that's the reason why,typically as much as you, the
employee want transparency andwant to be let in, and you want
to know now and feel as ifyou're not being told.
One of the hardest things to dois wait until that decision is
final.
Can you imagine the chaos thatwould happen if one thing is
(11:32):
announced and then, all of asudden, it changes?
Management and leadership don'twant that either.
Okay, so here's what you havecontrol over.
So if you're in a situationwhere you are wondering what the
decision is going to be fromthe company about whether or not
you have a job or yourdepartment stays intact, or
(11:54):
what's going to be next, whereis your finger on the pulse of
what's happening?
What do you have control over?
What are you responsible for?
Control over what are youresponsible for?
And where can you get the bestinformation?
Minus all of the drama?
So stay with me on that for aminute, minus all of the drama,
(12:17):
because organizational changelike this can be hugely dramatic
.
You that I can only imagine howmuch drama conversations have
(12:41):
been, both inside and outside ofwork, and the worry, fear and
anxiety about whether or notpeople will have a job or not.
So if you have a really strongrelationship with your direct
supervisor, how do you want toleverage that conversation While
they may not know anything?
Leverage that conversation.
While they may not knowanything, they may be able to
(13:02):
talk to you at least a littlebit about what you're feeling
and experiencing and what'shappening, to help you make a
much better and informeddecision once you ultimately
know what's going to happen toyou, ultimately know what's
going to happen to you.
As a manager and leader who hadto help teams navigate through a
(13:24):
variety of changes aroundreorganizations, one of the
things I always kept in mind wasthat if someone on my team was
emoting and breathing, they werealive, right.
So if they were angry,frustrated, upset, confused,
that was all okay.
I was willing to hold space asmuch as I could to hear them out
(13:46):
.
But there also comes a timewhen you said, okay, look, we're
not going to solve this rightnow.
We don't know what the issue is.
So, as much as we can talkabout it, it's not really going
to help for us to perseverate onthis conversation because we
just don't know yet.
I worked in one organizationwhere they were dismantling our
(14:08):
team and there were two roomsset up and, depending on which
room you went to, you either hada job or did not.
That was incredibly stressful,and so for a lot of mid-career
professionals right now and alot of people in general that
(14:29):
are dealing with this kind ofuncertainty in terms of their
job security.
It is okay to not be okay withall of this.
Yes, people are losing theirjobs.
People are having jobsredefined and restructured, some
people are being offered earlyretirement or buyout options and
(14:50):
, of course, we know the quote,unquote fork in the road email
that we heard that went out toso many government employees.
Okay, it is not all glitz andglamour.
I will tell you that.
I have had conversations withcolleagues and friends who have
thought that, oh, earlyretirement's just a great option
(15:10):
.
No, it's not, especially if youare not ready to retire.
Early retirement doesn't mean,okay, you just get to go and you
keep your same salary andeverything.
No, you will take a financialhit.
If you retire early.
You will go through a hugechange in your routine because
(15:34):
you're no longer going to workevery day.
Or you decide, okay, I'm goingto take this buyout and now I've
got to find a new job.
You will make the best decisionpossible for you, but that's
the thing.
You can only make the decisionbased on the parameters and
circumstances that are given toyou.
(15:57):
More often than not for amid-career professional, if they
were told, hey, you can keepyour job for the next 10 years
or take the buyout.
They're going to take the jobfor the next 10 years Because
more often than not mid-careerprofessionals you are not ready
to retire unless you have atremendous amount of financial
(16:19):
security and you're like, okay,let's go, let's go do something
else.
So let's you and I talk alittle bit about the elephant in
the room and I want to talkabout Doge for a few minutes.
So I have read a lot, I havewatched a lot, I have talked to
a lot of people who have beenimpacted in some way by Doge,
(16:46):
and the thing that I want tostart off with and say is this
does any organization have anopportunity to cut costs and
(17:06):
eliminate waste, fraud and abuse?
Absolutely, I think anyorganization can look at their
bottom line and go we could savemoney here, we could cut
expenses over here, and so onand so forth.
But in my opinion, what Dogehas done is completely taken
that proverbial chainsaw andmassacred and decimated
(17:31):
organizations, agencies, forwhatever reason or agenda they
have.
As a former educator of 25 years, my heart breaks over the
dismantling of the Department ofEducation and while this is not
(17:51):
an education, career,profession-centric type podcast,
I can't deny the fact that thatis my background and I do
believe the department has avery specific and functioning
role.
Have they always been efficientand effective at doing it?
No, but I do believe that youneed a national agency to
(18:18):
oversee certain things withineducation so that all of the
states have a resource to go toand they're not operating in
isolation.
So when I see what's happenedto the Department of Ed and what
I have seen happen in that, Ijust sit there and I shake my
head and go.
This is not the way to do itright.
(18:41):
Ideally, when somebody comes inand they want to look at an
organization, they look ateverything that the organization
is doing and its effectivenessand they look at the numbers and
they look at the money comingin and they look and see, okay,
where can we make a cut?
And typically you don't makesuch a massive cut that you then
(19:05):
have to immediately rehire orbring people back in.
You initiate change in wavesand those waves allow you to
ultimately get to the goal youare trying to achieve.
In other words, when you go toinstitute change, how can you
best minimize damage and upset.
(19:28):
And for anybody that's goingthrough this, if you are a
heart-centered leader and youhappen to work in a civil
service or service-orientedprofession right now, this is
difficult.
This is extremely difficult foryou.
And if you don't happen to workwithin a government agency and
(19:51):
you work in a corporation, andmaybe a large corporation like a
Fortune 50, fortune 100,fortune 500 type company, please
know that the ripple effects ofwhat we are seeing happening at
a national level willabsolutely trickle down and
impact what is happening withinyour organization.
(20:13):
That's why, when you hear mesay you are 100% responsible for
your career, you have to take alook at what you are in control
over and what you are not.
So is organizational changenecessary?
Absolutely, it is.
Every company and organizationhas a fiscal responsibility to
(20:34):
itself, its shareholders oremployees and employees to make
sure they are being fiscallyresponsible.
Look, after all, you do a joband you get paid for it.
There is an exchange of valuein terms of the work you do and
how the company compensates you.
(20:55):
If the company doesn't havemoney to pay you, they can't
have you keep working there.
After all, it's a job.
You're not going to do it forfree.
So are we in the midst ofhaving every organization look
at their costs, lean out andsave money and put everything
(21:15):
they're doing under a magnifyingglass?
Of course, but I truly believethat we have to be careful here
to not cut things so deeply, tonot cut staff and not cut
programs so deeply that theorganizations and their
(21:35):
employees are not able to dotheir job effectively.
But again, what do you havecontrol over?
Typically, if you're listeningto this podcast, you are a
mid-career, mid-levelprofessional and you feel like
you're probably stuck between arock and a hard place between
all the stuff leadership isdoing above you and having to
(21:58):
take care of the teams that arereporting to you, and wondering,
oh my gosh, what the heck'sgonna come next.
Okay, so, as much as this isextremely stressful and
disheartening on so many levels,I do wanna take a moment to
(22:19):
just share something of a littlepositive nature with you.
Once we get through this wave,I believe that the larger
conversation in the next wave isgoing to be about the
frustration that a company andits employees are feeling and
(22:43):
the lack of services becausethey can't get things done.
They can't get things done theway they used to and while the
way they used to do it was beingchanged or has been changed.
We have to look at the waythings are now, and is it
(23:06):
actually better or worse?
So I do believe the pendulum isgoing to swing.
I don't believe anyorganization, be it a federal
agency, state agency, privatecompany, publicly traded company
, is going to want to go backwhere they are spending and
spending and spending over andover and over again and feel
(23:30):
like as if they're just flushingmoney down the drain.
That's not going to be the case.
That's not going to be the case.
But if you are currently workingin an organization that is
going through some type oforganizational upheaval or
change, your firstresponsibility is to yourself.
(23:55):
Put your oxygen mask on firstbefore you help everybody else.
Take care of yourself.
Put your oxygen mask on firstbefore you help everybody else.
Take care of yourself.
Know the rules, play the game,but set your ground rules that
ensure you are taking care ofyourself first so you can go
ahead and do the job you need todo.
(24:15):
That is the most importantthing in dealing with all of
this organizational change rightnow.
How are you taking care ofyourself and build your support
network and as much.
As you go home at the end ofthe day and you talk to your
(24:37):
spouse, your significant other,your loved ones, your close
friends.
You need to be building acircle of support as well.
Who are your colleagues thatyou can commiserate with?
You can share thoughts andstrategies and ideas, and even a
good cry sometimes, whateverthat might be, because right now
(24:58):
this is hard, this is sodifficult and I want to leave
you with this.
I am a worrier by nature.
This has been my goal this yearis to not worry as much as I
have been because I worry somuch.
(25:18):
My mother, before she passedaway, had given me this book
called the Worry Warts Handbookand she's like.
I just wish you would stopworrying so much.
My mother, before she passedaway, had given me this book
called the Worry Warts Handbookand she's like.
I just wish you would stopworrying so much.
But I often say when we worry,we care.
And when I was employed with aW-2 position and working in
different organizations andhearing that there was going to
be some change, I could not stopmy brain from initially going
(25:43):
to this place of oh my gosh,what am I going to do if I lose
my job?
How am I going to take care ofmyself?
How am I going to pay my bills?
And that's why we hear thingslike we should have an emergency
fund right.
We should have several monthsof our living expenses stocked
(26:04):
away in a savings account orsomewhere we can easily get to
it that, if we need it, we canaccess it.
But that's not everybody'ssituation.
I get that right.
So I share all this with youbecause I remember this being
incredibly stressful when I wasgoing through it, and now, as
(26:25):
I'm helping my clients navigateit and I'm helping people in my
network go through this as well,I cannot overlook the fact that
this feels like it is 10 timesheavier.
It is 10 times more stressfulthan what it has ever been.
It is 10 times more stressfulthan what it has ever been.
But think about what you havecontrol over.
(26:47):
Think about what you would doif.
Have your plan B, have yourexit strategy, have that next
plan, that okay, if I stay, andthis is how my role is going to
be what does that mean for meand my employment moving forward
?
Lots of options.
(27:07):
You are not the proverbialsquare peg in a round hole that
doesn't fit anymore.
You are talented and versatileand you have experiences that
either your company wants orsomebody else will.
But navigating this job marketas we've said throughout this
(27:30):
entire year and my guests haveconfirmed this it is trickier
and more complex than ever, butit is still able to be navigated
, and that's why building yourmid-career GPS is more important
than ever.
So if there's anything I can doto help you beyond this free
podcast, I invite you to go tomy website, johnneral.
(27:54):
com.
If you click on the resourcestab, you will see things like
joining my free email community,where I email different
leadership and career tips twicea week.
You can join my membershipcommunity, which is a paid
membership, and come in thereand get access to me and a
completely different level ofsupport and join a membership
(28:15):
community of like-mindedmid-career professionals who,
like you are all, trying tofigure out whatever is next.
Okay, there are digital coursesthere and guides there on my
website at johnneral.
com to help you as well.
And if I can help you in anyway, shape or form, know that I
am here for you, because my goalis to help every mid-career
(28:39):
professional strategize andfigure out whatever is next for
them and their career bybuilding their mid-career GPS.
So, as we go through thisorganizational change together,
I want to leave you with thisyou will build your mid-career
GPS one mile or one step at atime, and how you show up
(29:01):
matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
(29:24):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Neral Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
Change.
It's unavoidable, but in thisjob market, how do you
effectively implement it?
Everyone reacts to changedifferently, and dealing with
change has been a frequent topicacross many of my coaching
conversations, because so manyof my clients are experiencing
(00:20):
uncertain and chaotic changeduring their mid-career journey,
and whether they be a client ora professional connection.
Here are just some of theemotions they're experiencing
Resentment, anger, fear,opportunity, excitement.
(00:41):
These are all valid emotionsand reactions to whatever change
may be happening inside oftheir organizations, and that's
why, in this episode, I'm takingsome time with you this week to
help you examine organizationalchange through the lenses of
your leadership, your managementand yourself, to help you
(01:02):
navigate any potentialreorganization, restructuring,
layoff or riff.
I have been all sides of it andit is about to get real, so
let's get started.
Hello, my friends, this is theMid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm
(01:33):
your host, John Neral.
I help mid-career professionalslike you find a job they love,
or love the job they have, usingmy proven four-step formula.
If you didn't get a chance tohear last week's episode, I had
an exciting announcement aboutlaunching my brand new
membership community.
It is called the Mid-Career GPSMembership Community and it is
(01:54):
for mid-career professionalslike you who are looking for
support, information, resourcesand tools to help you navigate
toward whatever is next for youand your career, as well as your
leadership journey.
So if you want to learn moreabout the membership community
and come on in, all you have todo is go to my website,
(02:15):
johnneral.
com/membership to read all thedetails.
There is a monthly subscriptionoption as well as a yearly
subscription option, and I lookforward to seeing you inside.
Now for this week's topic, thisone.
I gotta say it's been a littledifficult to plan in some ways,
(02:35):
because it seems like everythingis changing so much, and so
what I wanted to do this weekwas to just take a look at some
of the changes that arehappening in this job market and
give you some information tohelp you plan or strategize what
potentially your next move maybe.
So we're going to talk aboutfour things right off the bat.
(02:58):
It's reorganization,restructuring, layoffs and rifts
reorganization, restructuring,layoffs and rifts.
So when it comes toreorganization and restructuring
, a lot of times they are oftenused interchangeably, but there
are some slight differences,especially in a business context
.
So when you think about yourorganization, if it is going
(03:21):
through a restructuring, whatthat basically means it
essentially is a comprehensiveor complete overhaul of your
company's structure, operationand strategy.
I like to think of areorganization as tearing
everything down and building itback up again, and when that
(03:44):
happens, some parts are kept,some parts are not, and so it is
an opportunity to look ateverything from a 30,000-foot
view, as well as from groundzero, to completely restructure
everything within that company.
Now think of a reorganizationas something a little smaller.
(04:08):
Typically a reorganizationtargets a particular division or
business unit and there is arestructuring of, let's say,
departments, units, reassigningteams, looking at staffing
numbers and things like that.
So I like to think of arestructuring as it is
(04:31):
completely tearing everythingdown and building it back up,
and a reorganization is taking asmall part of the organization
and just formatting it in adifferent way.
But then we got to talk aboutlayoffs and rifts and, as you've
been following the news and,I'm certain, as you've been
following what's happeningwithin your own organization,
(04:52):
layoffs and rifts can sometimesbe used interchangeably.
Here is the difference A layofftypically is temporary, so
while we have seen more and morethat it does tend to lead to a
permanent termination, if youwill, of your employment,
(05:12):
typically we see layoffs.
When it comes to temporaryseasonal employees, you work for
a few months, let's say duringthe holidays, you're laid off.
Layoffs typically are notperformance-based just as much
as RIFs are, but RIF R-I-Fstands for reduction in force
and, as you've been followingthings that, let's say, have
been happening within thefederal government, you have
(05:34):
heard the term RIF used quite abit and what that means is that
is a permanent elimination ofyour job and or your department,
and that can be prettytraumatic.
All of a sudden you've had ajob and now you're left without.
(05:54):
So when you think about what'shappening within your agency or
your organization, you'rethinking about whether they're
going through a restructuring, areorganization, a layoff or a
riff.
Let's just take a moment andlook at this from the leadership
or executive leadership lens.
They're making a businessdecision and typically you are
(06:19):
not involved in anyconversations or decisions, more
than likely at your level.
These are decisions that arehappening above you and, while
you may want to be included, youmay certainly feel as if you're
being left out, and the chancesare you are, and there's a very
specific reason because at yourlevel you are not privy to or
(06:44):
allowed, if you will,organizationally to be included
in those kind of conversations.
This one's really difficult,because so often, when we think
about our thoughts and feelings,about how leadership is
communicating, we can say, oh,they're cold, they're heartless,
they don't care, they didn'tgive any consideration, and, on
(07:07):
some level, I can absolutelyunderstand that.
What I want to offer you,though, is that these decisions
typically are not madecarelessly, and this is not an
easy decision for them.
Not an easy decision for them.
(07:28):
Now.
There are some people, and somepeople in executive leadership
positions, where this justbecomes very transactional, and
it's how they look at thespreadsheet and they look at the
bottom line, and you may be thecasualty of that, and I get
that that, but it's theirthoughts versus your thoughts,
(07:50):
and as much as your thoughts areyou need a job, you need to pay
your bills and everything else.
If the company makes a decisionwhere they cannot afford to keep
you, or they are restructuringto save the company in some way
or cut costs in some way, then,understandably, the decision has
to be made Now from your directmanagement, your immediate
(08:14):
supervisor.
Let's keep in mind they have todeliver some really hard news,
and it is not easy for them.
It is never easy tellingsomeone, they are going to be
losing their job, and oftentimeswhat happens next is for the
people who are being toldthey're being laid off or riffed
(08:37):
and they're losing theiremployment.
They are flooded with a ton ofinformation from HR and the
organization about how they'regoing to continue their benefits
and how long their salary isgoing to be, and what to do with
any kind of investments orpension or retirement account
that they have.
So there's a lot of decisions,all while you are trying to
(09:00):
process that you do not have ajob.
But what if you do?
Let's acknowledge that.
In those situations, you thenhave to figure out all of the
things that are happening whileyou still have a job and how
you're going to get things donewhile perhaps the person sitting
next to you or your work bestieis now no longer employed there
(09:22):
.
So the ton and flood ofemotions that happen in
situations like this cannot beoverlooked, and so when I think
about how we manage that change,it is that delicate balance
between how do you hold spacefor an employee who is staying
(09:44):
with the organization and yetthey still have to get all their
work done because the workflowsdon't stop.
You can't sit around andcomplain and be argumentative
all day.
There comes a time when youhave to get the work done.
But this is an opportunity foryou to show up and be really
clear about what the groundrules are and have those
(10:06):
intentional conversations to ownwhere you are, welcome new
opportunities, use your genius,protect and promote your brand.
Those are my show up sixstrategies to figure out how you
are going to play thissituation moving forward.
As I shared at the top of thisepisode, I have been on both
(10:26):
sides of it.
I have been in those leadershipconversations around
reorganizing and I have been onthe other side of it where I
have been let go from my job orI've been one of the few that
have stayed.
And what I want to share withyou in this moment is this From
(10:47):
a leadership lens.
They want to be transparent,they want to let people have as
much time to make decisions, butI can tell you from my own
personal experiences that I havebeen in conversations where we
have thought we have locked downan org chart, only to change it
(11:09):
the next day.
So that's the reason why,typically as much as you, the
employee want transparency andwant to be let in, and you want
to know now and feel as ifyou're not being told.
One of the hardest things to dois wait until that decision is
final.
Can you imagine the chaos thatwould happen if one thing is
(11:32):
announced and then, all of asudden, it changes?
Management and leadership don'twant that either.
Okay, so here's what you havecontrol over.
So if you're in a situationwhere you are wondering what the
decision is going to be fromthe company about whether or not
you have a job or yourdepartment stays intact, or
(11:54):
what's going to be next, whereis your finger on the pulse of
what's happening?
What do you have control over?
What are you responsible for?
Control over what are youresponsible for?
And where can you get the bestinformation?
Minus all of the drama?
So stay with me on that for aminute, minus all of the drama,
(12:17):
because organizational changelike this can be hugely dramatic
.
You that I can only imagine howmuch drama conversations have
(12:41):
been, both inside and outside ofwork, and the worry, fear and
anxiety about whether or notpeople will have a job or not.
So if you have a really strongrelationship with your direct
supervisor, how do you want toleverage that conversation While
they may not know anything?
Leverage that conversation.
While they may not knowanything, they may be able to
(13:02):
talk to you at least a littlebit about what you're feeling
and experiencing and what'shappening, to help you make a
much better and informeddecision once you ultimately
know what's going to happen toyou, ultimately know what's
going to happen to you.
As a manager and leader who hadto help teams navigate through a
(13:24):
variety of changes aroundreorganizations, one of the
things I always kept in mind wasthat if someone on my team was
emoting and breathing, they werealive, right.
So if they were angry,frustrated, upset, confused,
that was all okay.
I was willing to hold space asmuch as I could to hear them out
(13:46):
.
But there also comes a timewhen you said, okay, look, we're
not going to solve this rightnow.
We don't know what the issue is.
So, as much as we can talkabout it, it's not really going
to help for us to perseverate onthis conversation because we
just don't know yet.
I worked in one organizationwhere they were dismantling our
(14:08):
team and there were two roomsset up and, depending on which
room you went to, you either hada job or did not.
That was incredibly stressful,and so for a lot of mid-career
professionals right now and alot of people in general that
(14:29):
are dealing with this kind ofuncertainty in terms of their
job security.
It is okay to not be okay withall of this.
Yes, people are losing theirjobs.
People are having jobsredefined and restructured, some
people are being offered earlyretirement or buyout options and
(14:50):
, of course, we know the quote,unquote fork in the road email
that we heard that went out toso many government employees.
Okay, it is not all glitz andglamour.
I will tell you that.
I have had conversations withcolleagues and friends who have
thought that, oh, earlyretirement's just a great option
(15:10):
.
No, it's not, especially if youare not ready to retire.
Early retirement doesn't mean,okay, you just get to go and you
keep your same salary andeverything.
No, you will take a financialhit.
If you retire early.
You will go through a hugechange in your routine because
(15:34):
you're no longer going to workevery day.
Or you decide, okay, I'm goingto take this buyout and now I've
got to find a new job.
You will make the best decisionpossible for you, but that's
the thing.
You can only make the decisionbased on the parameters and
circumstances that are given toyou.
(15:57):
More often than not for amid-career professional, if they
were told, hey, you can keepyour job for the next 10 years
or take the buyout.
They're going to take the jobfor the next 10 years Because
more often than not mid-careerprofessionals you are not ready
to retire unless you have atremendous amount of financial
(16:19):
security and you're like, okay,let's go, let's go do something
else.
So let's you and I talk alittle bit about the elephant in
the room and I want to talkabout Doge for a few minutes.
So I have read a lot, I havewatched a lot, I have talked to
a lot of people who have beenimpacted in some way by Doge,
(16:46):
and the thing that I want tostart off with and say is this
does any organization have anopportunity to cut costs and
(17:06):
eliminate waste, fraud and abuse?
Absolutely, I think anyorganization can look at their
bottom line and go we could savemoney here, we could cut
expenses over here, and so onand so forth.
But in my opinion, what Dogehas done is completely taken
that proverbial chainsaw andmassacred and decimated
(17:31):
organizations, agencies, forwhatever reason or agenda they
have.
As a former educator of 25 years, my heart breaks over the
dismantling of the Department ofEducation and while this is not
(17:51):
an education, career,profession-centric type podcast,
I can't deny the fact that thatis my background and I do
believe the department has avery specific and functioning
role.
Have they always been efficientand effective at doing it?
No, but I do believe that youneed a national agency to
(18:18):
oversee certain things withineducation so that all of the
states have a resource to go toand they're not operating in
isolation.
So when I see what's happenedto the Department of Ed and what
I have seen happen in that, Ijust sit there and I shake my
head and go.
This is not the way to do itright.
(18:41):
Ideally, when somebody comes inand they want to look at an
organization, they look ateverything that the organization
is doing and its effectivenessand they look at the numbers and
they look at the money comingin and they look and see, okay,
where can we make a cut?
And typically you don't makesuch a massive cut that you then
(19:05):
have to immediately rehire orbring people back in.
You initiate change in wavesand those waves allow you to
ultimately get to the goal youare trying to achieve.
In other words, when you go toinstitute change, how can you
best minimize damage and upset.
(19:28):
And for anybody that's goingthrough this, if you are a
heart-centered leader and youhappen to work in a civil
service or service-orientedprofession right now, this is
difficult.
This is extremely difficult foryou.
And if you don't happen to workwithin a government agency and
(19:51):
you work in a corporation, andmaybe a large corporation like a
Fortune 50, fortune 100,fortune 500 type company, please
know that the ripple effects ofwhat we are seeing happening at
a national level willabsolutely trickle down and
impact what is happening withinyour organization.
(20:13):
That's why, when you hear mesay you are 100% responsible for
your career, you have to take alook at what you are in control
over and what you are not.
So is organizational changenecessary?
Absolutely, it is.
Every company and organizationhas a fiscal responsibility to
(20:34):
itself, its shareholders oremployees and employees to make
sure they are being fiscallyresponsible.
Look, after all, you do a joband you get paid for it.
There is an exchange of valuein terms of the work you do and
how the company compensates you.
(20:55):
If the company doesn't havemoney to pay you, they can't
have you keep working there.
After all, it's a job.
You're not going to do it forfree.
So are we in the midst ofhaving every organization look
at their costs, lean out andsave money and put everything
(21:15):
they're doing under a magnifyingglass?
Of course, but I truly believethat we have to be careful here
to not cut things so deeply, tonot cut staff and not cut
programs so deeply that theorganizations and their
(21:35):
employees are not able to dotheir job effectively.
But again, what do you havecontrol over?
Typically, if you're listeningto this podcast, you are a
mid-career, mid-levelprofessional and you feel like
you're probably stuck between arock and a hard place between
all the stuff leadership isdoing above you and having to
(21:58):
take care of the teams that arereporting to you, and wondering,
oh my gosh, what the heck'sgonna come next.
Okay, so, as much as this isextremely stressful and
disheartening on so many levels,I do wanna take a moment to
(22:19):
just share something of a littlepositive nature with you.
Once we get through this wave,I believe that the larger
conversation in the next wave isgoing to be about the
frustration that a company andits employees are feeling and
(22:43):
the lack of services becausethey can't get things done.
They can't get things done theway they used to and while the
way they used to do it was beingchanged or has been changed.
We have to look at the waythings are now, and is it
(23:06):
actually better or worse?
So I do believe the pendulum isgoing to swing.
I don't believe anyorganization, be it a federal
agency, state agency, privatecompany, publicly traded company
, is going to want to go backwhere they are spending and
spending and spending over andover and over again and feel
(23:30):
like as if they're just flushingmoney down the drain.
That's not going to be the case.
That's not going to be the case.
But if you are currently workingin an organization that is
going through some type oforganizational upheaval or
change, your firstresponsibility is to yourself.
(23:55):
Put your oxygen mask on firstbefore you help everybody else.
Take care of yourself.
Put your oxygen mask on firstbefore you help everybody else.
Take care of yourself.
Know the rules, play the game,but set your ground rules that
ensure you are taking care ofyourself first so you can go
ahead and do the job you need todo.
(24:15):
That is the most importantthing in dealing with all of
this organizational change rightnow.
How are you taking care ofyourself and build your support
network and as much.
As you go home at the end ofthe day and you talk to your
(24:37):
spouse, your significant other,your loved ones, your close
friends.
You need to be building acircle of support as well.
Who are your colleagues thatyou can commiserate with?
You can share thoughts andstrategies and ideas, and even a
good cry sometimes, whateverthat might be, because right now
(24:58):
this is hard, this is sodifficult and I want to leave
you with this.
I am a worrier by nature.
This has been my goal this yearis to not worry as much as I
have been because I worry somuch.
(25:18):
My mother, before she passedaway, had given me this book
called the Worry Warts Handbookand she's like.
I just wish you would stopworrying so much.
My mother, before she passedaway, had given me this book
called the Worry Warts Handbookand she's like.
I just wish you would stopworrying so much.
But I often say when we worry,we care.
And when I was employed with aW-2 position and working in
different organizations andhearing that there was going to
be some change, I could not stopmy brain from initially going
(25:43):
to this place of oh my gosh,what am I going to do if I lose
my job?
How am I going to take care ofmyself?
How am I going to pay my bills?
And that's why we hear thingslike we should have an emergency
fund right.
We should have several monthsof our living expenses stocked
(26:04):
away in a savings account orsomewhere we can easily get to
it that, if we need it, we canaccess it.
But that's not everybody'ssituation.
I get that right.
So I share all this with youbecause I remember this being
incredibly stressful when I wasgoing through it, and now, as
(26:25):
I'm helping my clients navigateit and I'm helping people in my
network go through this as well,I cannot overlook the fact that
this feels like it is 10 timesheavier.
It is 10 times more stressfulthan what it has ever been.
It is 10 times more stressfulthan what it has ever been.
But think about what you havecontrol over.
(26:47):
Think about what you would doif.
Have your plan B, have yourexit strategy, have that next
plan, that okay, if I stay, andthis is how my role is going to
be what does that mean for meand my employment moving forward
?
Lots of options.
(27:07):
You are not the proverbialsquare peg in a round hole that
doesn't fit anymore.
You are talented and versatileand you have experiences that
either your company wants orsomebody else will.
But navigating this job marketas we've said throughout this
(27:30):
entire year and my guests haveconfirmed this it is trickier
and more complex than ever, butit is still able to be navigated
, and that's why building yourmid-career GPS is more important
than ever.
So if there's anything I can doto help you beyond this free
podcast, I invite you to go tomy website, johnneral.
(27:54):
com.
If you click on the resourcestab, you will see things like
joining my free email community,where I email different
leadership and career tips twicea week.
You can join my membershipcommunity, which is a paid
membership, and come in thereand get access to me and a
completely different level ofsupport and join a membership
(28:15):
community of like-mindedmid-career professionals who,
like you are all, trying tofigure out whatever is next.
Okay, there are digital coursesthere and guides there on my
website at johnneral.
com to help you as well.
And if I can help you in anyway, shape or form, know that I
am here for you, because my goalis to help every mid-career
(28:39):
professional strategize andfigure out whatever is next for
them and their career bybuilding their mid-career GPS.
So, as we go through thisorganizational change together,
I want to leave you with thisyou will build your mid-career
GPS one mile or one step at atime, and how you show up
(29:01):
matters.
Make it a great rest of yourday.
Thank you for listening to theMid-Career GPS Podcast.
Make sure to follow on yourfavorite listening platform and,
if you have a moment, I'd loveto hear your comments on Apple
Podcasts.
Visit johnnarrellcom for moreinformation about how I can help
you build your mid-career GPSor how I can help you and your
(29:24):
organization with your nextworkshop or public speaking
event.
Don't forget to connect with meon LinkedIn and follow me on
social at John Neral Coaching.
I look forward to being backwith you next week.
Until then, take care andremember how we show up matters.
Thank you.
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