December 10, 2025 • 16 mins
What if the secret to living longer isn’t in your genes… but in your mindset?
In this Wisdom Wednesday episode, Chip Conley reveals the surprising research showing how a simple shift in how we think about aging can add years—yes, actual years—to our lives. From Becca Levy’s longevity findings to Carol Dweck’s growth-mindset principles, Chip breaks down why curiosity, openness, and lifelong learning may be the real fountain of youth.
You’ll learn why “I’m too old to…” is one of the most dangerous beliefs we carry, how anticipated regret can propel us into action, and why midlife is actually one of the most powerful stages for reinvention.
If you’re ready to rethink what’s possible in your next chapter, this episode will change how you see aging forever.
Tune in now and start shaping the mindset that shapes your life.
Timestamps:
00:00 Canadian spelling banter
02:56 Shifting mindset on aging
05:59 Anticipated regret as motivation
07:50 Lifelong learning and curiosity
10:09 What gets better with age
11:21 You’re not “too old” for anything
14:18 Mindset as invisible life framework
15:40 Weekly mindset assignment and closing remarksWhich of the 12 Reasons Most or Least Resonates With You? https://chipconley.com/reasons-quiz/ Learn more about MEA at https://www.meawisdom.com/
#wisdomwednesday #midlifegrowth #agingmindset #growthmindset #proaging #lifelonglearning #longevitymindset #chipconley #meaprogram #mindsetshift #curiosityasapower #midlifetransitions #positiveaging #mindsetmatters #livebetterlonger
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We tend to get so fixated, especially in American culture,
on the idea that the only way wedefine growth is based upon how
our body looks. And as our body doesn't look as
good as it gets older, thereforewe're aging, not growing.
But I think we're growing and aging our whole lives.
Growth is not just something youdo at age 15.
Growth is something you do at 75.
The growth you're doing at 75 isculturally and intellectually
(00:23):
and relationally. So it's all these forms of
growth that don't necessarily have to do with the physical
plane of your body. This is the midlife chrysalis.
Welcome to Wisdom Wednesdays with Chip Conley and Derek Gale,
your weekly conversation about thriving in midlife.
Together, we explore the questions, insights, and
practices that help you live this chapter with more purpose,
(00:44):
vitality, and joy. Welcome to another episode of
Wisdom Wednesday. My name is Derek Gale.
I'm the CEO of MEA, and I'm herewith our founder, Chip Conley.
Good morning. How are you?
Good morning. How are you?
Hi, I'm I'm I'm well good. Why do Canadians out of you to a
lot of words I I I read your memos and sometimes you've
adding extra letters compared tous Americans like.
(01:08):
Give me an example. I mean well like Nur well
nourishment actually has AU so like favorite.
How would you spell favorite? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, FAVOURIT.
E Yeah, OK, because we spell stuff.
Properly in Canada, well. Proper, proper.
English. English.
Oh, God, you know, don't you want did Wait, did you?
Did you have. I mean, the Americans had a
(01:29):
revolution against the English. So you're still a Commonwealth.
We're still Commonwealth. Well, gosh, you're under the
thumb. Yeah, we are.
We are. It's not a very big thumb these
days. No, it's not.
No, maybe you're maybe you're going back to that that
direction because you know well that you're friends to the South
as Americans. Yeah, there's there's been some
months. We are not your favorites.
(01:50):
It's gonna pass. OK.
I do like Mark Kearney though. Mark Kearney, yeah.
He's a solid. Guy.
He seems like so. Smart.
Very smart, very smart. Very even keeled.
Yeah. OK.
Yeah. Who else do I like?
Katie Lang? Yep.
OK. Yeah.
Obviously Justin Bieber. Is he Canadian?
(02:11):
Oh, I no, I don't even. I really.
I barely even know the guy. He's way too young.
Céline Dion. Not really.
Nothing. Shania Twain.
No, none of you're Bryan Adams. Bryan Adams the singer, the the
musician. Yeah.
Who was the band he was in? Bryan Adams.
He was. A solo artist.
I don't like him either. 69 now.Well, like who else?
(02:31):
Oh. My God killing me.
Here, I mean Wayne Gretzky, is he Canadian?
Wayne Gretzky. OK, for sure.
Oh my God. Ryan Reynolds.
Oh. God, these people I don't like.
Oh, OK, I'm. Coming back you.
Know I like you know I like you know I like.
Is Sophie. Sophie Gregor Trudeau yeah yeah,
(02:52):
yeah, An MEA alum yeah. The.
What's Justin Trudeau's wife? That's why, Well, I don't know.
They didn't get divorced. They're sort of separated, but.
Yeah, but he's dating Katy Perryat the.
I know. Is she Canadian too?
No, she's not Canadian. No all.
Right. All right, now that we've got
our little Canadian trivia, yeah.
That's classic. All right, so.
So. Let's let's Sophie, if you're
(03:13):
listening, you know I love you and you know I Katy Perry's
like, oh, such old news and comeon back.
You know, Sophie's been Sophie'sbeen to MEA.
She loves MEA love it. All right, I'm coming back a
list of Canadians. We're going to find some good
ones, so let's let's. Talk.
About aging and mindset. Yeah, in the last episode last
week, last Wednesday, I almost, you know, hinted at it.
(03:35):
And there's a woman named Becca Levy from Yale.
And what she's shown is in 20 years of research is that if you
can shift your mindset on aging from a negative to a positive
such that you can see the upsideof aging, that gains you 7 1/2
years of extended longevity, which is more than if you
actually stop smoking at age 50,that gives you 4 years.
Or if you start exercising at 50, that gives you 2 years.
(03:58):
Yeah. So the idea that you actually
can shift your mindset on aging has a profound impact.
Better than ice baths, better than supplements, better than,
you know, infrared, you know, saunas.
Most people don't know this. Public service announcements to
stop smoking or to start exercising, Sure.
But where are the public serviceannouncements that help people
to see not coming from Hallmark?Yeah, exactly.
(04:18):
It's negative from Hallmark. Where's the pro aging message
out there that just it doesn't exist.
So there's that. And, and, and then there's also
this woman, Carol Dweck from Stanford, a professor who
popularizes idea of mindset. So what is a mindset?
A mindset is a way of a perspective on the world and
yourself. So it's sort of like the the,
the way you see the world and yourself.
(04:41):
And what she's shown is that when you have a fixed mindset,
you often have a tendency to just feel like you have a fixed
amount of capacity or skill or money or time or whatever.
And your job is to optimize that.
So you're trying to prove yourself and win.
But if you have a growth mindset, you have a tendency to
see whatever you're looking at as something that you can
improve and get better at. So you don't have a fixed amount
(05:03):
of that. And also a fixed mindset speaks
to the idea of with new information, I'm not going to
change my mind. Yeah.
So as we get older, not only do we need to sort of look, move,
you know, get rid of our internalized ageism, yeah, and
see the upside of aging, as Becca Levy from Yale suggests.
But we also need to be careful getting stepped in a fixed
(05:24):
mindset. Because for older people, if you
have a fixed mindset, and a lot of older people do, what happens
is you start to close down your options and close down your
openness to new ideas. Curiosity and openness to new
experiences are both very positively correlated to living
at a longer, healthier, happier life.
So growth mindset means that you're not just trying to only
(05:45):
play games that you can win, because if that's what you do,
as you get older, you play less and less games.
Your sandbox gets smaller. So what we really need to look
at is how do we become a beginner and how are we open to
trying new things? Yeah, as we get older.
So. OK.
Well, let's put that in practicebecause I mean, it's easy to
say, oh, you just got to have a growth mindset, not a fixed
mindset. Like what are some practices DAP
(06:08):
that? Change that when I moved to Baja
from San Francisco, not planningon doing an mea.
I just was going to have a home there going to write a book,
wisdom orc, the making of a modern elder.
And I never had a second home before.
So it was sort of fun. I had a point of view.
I had a fixed mindset, which wasI'm too old to learn to surf.
I am too old to learn Spanish. And you know, that sort of was
(06:30):
almost like an externalized ageism because the I'm too old
too is a classic ageism point ofview, that point of view.
And it infected me. And to in order to shift that,
to change that, what I had to say to myself was 10 years from
now, what will I regret if I don't learn it or do it now?
(06:52):
It's a beautiful question because what it does is it
catalyzes you to take action because anticipated regret is a
form of wisdom. Anticipated regret is a form of
wisdom. When I said to myself, gosh, I'm
56 at that time. And if I hope to be living in
Mexico at 6610 years from now, which is a year from now that
(07:13):
you know, I'm 65 now and I haven't learned Spanish, I will
regret that at 56, I didn't Start learning Spanish.
Similarly, I will regret that I didn't Start learning to surf
because as you know, there's a surf break right near Mea.
So at 56, you know, against all odds, I started learning Spanish
and MI espanol is MUI Malo pero estoy mejorando.
(07:34):
It means I'm just, you know, I'mnot good at Spanish, but I am
getting better and I started learning to surf.
There was this wonderful feeling, this beginner's mindset
of saying like, wow, this is something that I didn't think I
could do. And the beauty as we get older
of saying, I'm trying something that we that I didn't think I
could do, gives you the sense ofgives you a sense of confidence.
(07:57):
And it also so opens you up to trying something new.
One of the things that's really important as we get older is to
realize that life, you know, we're supposed to be constantly
learning. There's a getting Dan Gilbert, a
Harvard professor who gives Ted talks and I got to know him
because I've, I give Ted talks too.
And he says human beings are works in progress that
(08:19):
mistakenly think they're finished.
Human beings are works in progress that mistakenly think
they're finished. We are meant to be trying new
things. There's a word called liminal.
To be liminal is to be in between two things.
When we're in adolescence, we know we're liminal.
We're growing so fast. We're going through puberty.
We're trying, you know, having first dates and we're having,
you know, driving a car for the first time.
(08:40):
But when we're in middle essence, which is the adult
version, corollary to adolescence, when we're actually
going through hormonal things aswell, we are liminal.
We're going through all kinds oftransitions.
And yet somehow at that, at thisage, in our 40s, fifties, 60s
and beyond, we think that we're supposed to be too old for
transitions. But to realize that our mindset
(09:02):
of accepting that we are constantly gonna be in
transition allows us and gives license for us to try new
things, Yeah. And I was reading an article, I
can't remember where it was from, but it was just recently.
And they're talking about lifelong learners is a predictor
of longevity and it adds to life.
And it doesn't have to be learning anything productive
like, oh, I'm going to learn this skill to do this.
(09:24):
It's just be learning. Something you're interested in.
Know that. Ask yourself what you're
curious. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, there are so many
things that we can learn. And for some of us, we didn't
have time for curiosity. If you're on the treadmill and
you're in the sandwich generation, taking care of both
adult parents, you know, who areaging and kids at the same time,
you know, you may not have the time.
If you're working 60 hours a week at work, you don't have
(09:45):
time to be curious. But as you get older, you can
start, says, make a list. Make a list of things you're
curious and also make a list of things that get better with age.
I, I made a list in anticipationof our time today.
Here's some things that get better with age.
We know things that don't get better with age, but wine gets
better with age. Pickles get better with age.
Whiskey gets better with age. Beef, certain kinds of beef get
(10:05):
better with age. Cheese, leather, sofas, jeans,
flannel sheets, mattresses, slippers, trees, wow, all those
things get better with age. So like, OK, maybe we get better
with age as well. I mean, I like to say that, you
know, when it comes to trees, wethere's old growth forests, old
(10:26):
growth redwoods, but I think they're old growth humans and
all. We tend to get so fixated,
especially in American culture, on the idea that the only way we
define growth is based upon how our body looks.
And as our body doesn't look as good as it gets older,
therefore, you know, we're aging, not growing, but I think
we're growing and aging our whole lives.
(10:46):
It's not growth. Growth is not just something you
do at age 15. Growth is something you do at
70, 5, but it's the growth you're doing at 75 is culturally
and intellectually and relationally.
So it's all these forms of growth that don't necessarily
have to do with the physical plane of your body.
We really. Have to shut off the societal
narrative, though, that that's pushed on us.
I mean, you know, I remember turning 40 and having all the
(11:08):
people say to me, oh, you're notgoing to be able to do that
anymore. And now I'm heading for 50
people like, oh, you're not going to be able to do that
anymore. I'm like why?
Well, maybe one of the exercisesor experiments someone could do
as a result of this episode is to ask themselves maybe that you
make 2 two columns. What is I'm too old to and see
what comes up. You know, no one's going to look
at this, only you. I'm too old to, you know, I'm
old, too old to find a soulmate.I'm too old to start a business.
(11:31):
And then in the other column, maybe say I'm finally at the age
when I can and write down those and take a look at those two
lists. You know, if you have nothing in
the list of I'm too, I'm finallyat the to the age that I can,
then you really need to come to MBA because you need to really
have, you know, you know, a doseof pro aging medicine.
(11:52):
But also look at your I'm too old to list.
I thought I was too old to surf.I thought I was too old to learn
a new language. And I came to realize that I
wasn't. There's a guy named Jim Flaherty
who's come to Mea five times between 87 and 990.
His first time coming to Mea wasin Baja and he surfed at the end
of the week in a in a Baja workshop.
(12:13):
We take you out surfing if you want to.
If you don't want to, you can just video and take photos and
go for a walk in the beach and body surfing.
But if you want to go on a board, he had 80, seven years
old. Wow.
We have pictures of it. He didn't stand up.
He wasn't even trying to stand up.
He was just holding the board and the white water was bringing
him in. And you know, that kind of
spirit. Yeah, that kind of framework of
(12:35):
like, hey, I'm not too old to try something now at 88.
When he came back, he said, you know what I did that I don't
need to do that again because, because I because I had my
experience. But that's, that's the beauty of
living a fully engaged, flourishing life is when you can
try things and realize, OK, you know what?
I I did it and I don't necessarily have to do it again.
(12:55):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I've watched it's
it's many a cohort. I've gone down to the beach and
watched when I'm down there and it's 70s people actually
standing up and, and, and just the, the sense of, Oh my God,
the accomplishment, the reframe that happens.
If we had started at the at the start of the week, we said like,
OK, we're going surfing today. You know, maybe one out of four
(13:17):
would be people would try it by the end of the week, 3 out of
the four are trying it. Similarly here there's people
who go out horseback riding on the ranch in Santa Fe that have
never tried it before and have been a little bit scared.
Sure. And so by the end of the week,
they're, they're up on a horse if they want, or they're doing
sometimes Equino learning through our partnership with
Equus and the, you know, the, the ability for people to
(13:39):
actually try something new that that they thought was out of
their reach. You know, the way to think about
mindset is the following. Is your mindset serving you?
And sometimes closing down options.
You know, Jim, Jim might have said, like at 88, my mindset if
I don't want to do it again, is serving him because I don't want
to get hurt. Yeah.
That's fine. Yeah.
(13:59):
But often the question is, is your mindset serving you?
And it's if it's closing down your options, that isn't always
the best solution for you. Yeah.
And we live in a society where we're told to retire at 65,
we're told to close down. I think that's going to change.
It has to. Well, and that's why this whole
premise of retirement is, is, isflawed for a lot of people
because it's like, OK, what am Igoing to do?
(14:20):
Totally. You know, I'm, I, I don't, I
don't want to be bored with my life.
So, you know, I, I would just say at the end of the day,
mindset is like the fish for water for a fish.
Yeah, it's something that's totally in your life.
You have, you have it just like the fish has water, but you
don't even notice it. And part of what we do at MEA is
to help people to notice what mindsets we do, an exercise, as
(14:41):
you know, the Great Midlife Edit, where we help people to
see they're limiting beliefs that are mindsets that they're
ready to let go of. And then in a collective ritual
have them just throw it into thefire.
Love it. All right, let's give, let's
give people one assignment this week.
Well, I think the one assignmentI would do is just this idea of
make a list of I'm too old to and make a list.
I am just becoming to the age where I can and see what is in
(15:04):
both of those lists. But especially look at the I'm
too old to list and ask yourself, is that true?
OK. Or you or here's another one.
There's another one that that person do 10 years from now what
I was. Just about to say what about?
10 years from now, what will youregret if you don't learn it or
do it? Yeah, that that one.
That's a good one. With friends.
(15:25):
Maybe that's what the exercise is, is have a meal with your
spouse, with a friend, with yoursister or brother and say like,
hey, let's have a conversation about what is what it is that we
would like to do but we are scared of doing.
And this question will help helpus to see the anticipated regret
if we don't do it. Love it.
(15:45):
All right, everybody, there's your assignment for the week.
And this has been another episode of Wisdom Wednesdays
with Chip Conley. And thank you for listening.
Chip, any final words? No Join us on Friday, my next
interview. And if you like what you hear,
leave us a rating, leave us a review on your favorite podcast
platform, and we'll see you again next week.
Yeah. Thanks, Derek.
Thanks for listening to Wisdom Wednesdays on the Midlife
(16:06):
Chrysalis. This show is produced by Midlife
Media. If you have a question you'd
like us to explore in a future episode, please send it to
podcast@meawisdom.com. And if you enjoyed this episode,
help us spread the word by subscribing and leaving a review
on your favorite platform.
We tend to get so fixated, especially in American culture,
on the idea that the only way wedefine growth is based upon how
our body looks. And as our body doesn't look as
good as it gets older, thereforewe're aging, not growing.
But I think we're growing and aging our whole lives.
Growth is not just something youdo at age 15.
Growth is something you do at 75.
The growth you're doing at 75 isculturally and intellectually
(00:23):
and relationally. So it's all these forms of
growth that don't necessarily have to do with the physical
plane of your body. This is the midlife chrysalis.
Welcome to Wisdom Wednesdays with Chip Conley and Derek Gale,
your weekly conversation about thriving in midlife.
Together, we explore the questions, insights, and
practices that help you live this chapter with more purpose,
(00:44):
vitality, and joy. Welcome to another episode of
Wisdom Wednesday. My name is Derek Gale.
I'm the CEO of MEA, and I'm herewith our founder, Chip Conley.
Good morning. How are you?
Good morning. How are you?
Hi, I'm I'm I'm well good. Why do Canadians out of you to a
lot of words I I I read your memos and sometimes you've
adding extra letters compared tous Americans like.
(01:08):
Give me an example. I mean well like Nur well
nourishment actually has AU so like favorite.
How would you spell favorite? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, FAVOURIT.
E Yeah, OK, because we spell stuff.
Properly in Canada, well. Proper, proper.
English. English.
Oh, God, you know, don't you want did Wait, did you?
Did you have. I mean, the Americans had a
(01:29):
revolution against the English. So you're still a Commonwealth.
We're still Commonwealth. Well, gosh, you're under the
thumb. Yeah, we are.
We are. It's not a very big thumb these
days. No, it's not.
No, maybe you're maybe you're going back to that that
direction because you know well that you're friends to the South
as Americans. Yeah, there's there's been some
months. We are not your favorites.
(01:50):
It's gonna pass. OK.
I do like Mark Kearney though. Mark Kearney, yeah.
He's a solid. Guy.
He seems like so. Smart.
Very smart, very smart. Very even keeled.
Yeah. OK.
Yeah. Who else do I like?
Katie Lang? Yep.
OK. Yeah.
Obviously Justin Bieber. Is he Canadian?
(02:11):
Oh, I no, I don't even. I really.
I barely even know the guy. He's way too young.
Céline Dion. Not really.
Nothing. Shania Twain.
No, none of you're Bryan Adams. Bryan Adams the singer, the the
musician. Yeah.
Who was the band he was in? Bryan Adams.
He was. A solo artist.
I don't like him either. 69 now.Well, like who else?
(02:31):
Oh. My God killing me.
Here, I mean Wayne Gretzky, is he Canadian?
Wayne Gretzky. OK, for sure.
Oh my God. Ryan Reynolds.
Oh. God, these people I don't like.
Oh, OK, I'm. Coming back you.
Know I like you know I like you know I like.
Is Sophie. Sophie Gregor Trudeau yeah yeah,
(02:52):
yeah, An MEA alum yeah. The.
What's Justin Trudeau's wife? That's why, Well, I don't know.
They didn't get divorced. They're sort of separated, but.
Yeah, but he's dating Katy Perryat the.
I know. Is she Canadian too?
No, she's not Canadian. No all.
Right. All right, now that we've got
our little Canadian trivia, yeah.
That's classic. All right, so.
So. Let's let's Sophie, if you're
(03:13):
listening, you know I love you and you know I Katy Perry's
like, oh, such old news and comeon back.
You know, Sophie's been Sophie'sbeen to MEA.
She loves MEA love it. All right, I'm coming back a
list of Canadians. We're going to find some good
ones, so let's let's. Talk.
About aging and mindset. Yeah, in the last episode last
week, last Wednesday, I almost, you know, hinted at it.
(03:35):
And there's a woman named Becca Levy from Yale.
And what she's shown is in 20 years of research is that if you
can shift your mindset on aging from a negative to a positive
such that you can see the upsideof aging, that gains you 7 1/2
years of extended longevity, which is more than if you
actually stop smoking at age 50,that gives you 4 years.
Or if you start exercising at 50, that gives you 2 years.
(03:58):
Yeah. So the idea that you actually
can shift your mindset on aging has a profound impact.
Better than ice baths, better than supplements, better than,
you know, infrared, you know, saunas.
Most people don't know this. Public service announcements to
stop smoking or to start exercising, Sure.
But where are the public serviceannouncements that help people
to see not coming from Hallmark?Yeah, exactly.
(04:18):
It's negative from Hallmark. Where's the pro aging message
out there that just it doesn't exist.
So there's that. And, and, and then there's also
this woman, Carol Dweck from Stanford, a professor who
popularizes idea of mindset. So what is a mindset?
A mindset is a way of a perspective on the world and
yourself. So it's sort of like the the,
the way you see the world and yourself.
(04:41):
And what she's shown is that when you have a fixed mindset,
you often have a tendency to just feel like you have a fixed
amount of capacity or skill or money or time or whatever.
And your job is to optimize that.
So you're trying to prove yourself and win.
But if you have a growth mindset, you have a tendency to
see whatever you're looking at as something that you can
improve and get better at. So you don't have a fixed amount
(05:03):
of that. And also a fixed mindset speaks
to the idea of with new information, I'm not going to
change my mind. Yeah.
So as we get older, not only do we need to sort of look, move,
you know, get rid of our internalized ageism, yeah, and
see the upside of aging, as Becca Levy from Yale suggests.
But we also need to be careful getting stepped in a fixed
(05:24):
mindset. Because for older people, if you
have a fixed mindset, and a lot of older people do, what happens
is you start to close down your options and close down your
openness to new ideas. Curiosity and openness to new
experiences are both very positively correlated to living
at a longer, healthier, happier life.
So growth mindset means that you're not just trying to only
(05:45):
play games that you can win, because if that's what you do,
as you get older, you play less and less games.
Your sandbox gets smaller. So what we really need to look
at is how do we become a beginner and how are we open to
trying new things? Yeah, as we get older.
So. OK.
Well, let's put that in practicebecause I mean, it's easy to
say, oh, you just got to have a growth mindset, not a fixed
mindset. Like what are some practices DAP
(06:08):
that? Change that when I moved to Baja
from San Francisco, not planningon doing an mea.
I just was going to have a home there going to write a book,
wisdom orc, the making of a modern elder.
And I never had a second home before.
So it was sort of fun. I had a point of view.
I had a fixed mindset, which wasI'm too old to learn to surf.
I am too old to learn Spanish. And you know, that sort of was
(06:30):
almost like an externalized ageism because the I'm too old
too is a classic ageism point ofview, that point of view.
And it infected me. And to in order to shift that,
to change that, what I had to say to myself was 10 years from
now, what will I regret if I don't learn it or do it now?
(06:52):
It's a beautiful question because what it does is it
catalyzes you to take action because anticipated regret is a
form of wisdom. Anticipated regret is a form of
wisdom. When I said to myself, gosh, I'm
56 at that time. And if I hope to be living in
Mexico at 6610 years from now, which is a year from now that
(07:13):
you know, I'm 65 now and I haven't learned Spanish, I will
regret that at 56, I didn't Start learning Spanish.
Similarly, I will regret that I didn't Start learning to surf
because as you know, there's a surf break right near Mea.
So at 56, you know, against all odds, I started learning Spanish
and MI espanol is MUI Malo pero estoy mejorando.
(07:34):
It means I'm just, you know, I'mnot good at Spanish, but I am
getting better and I started learning to surf.
There was this wonderful feeling, this beginner's mindset
of saying like, wow, this is something that I didn't think I
could do. And the beauty as we get older
of saying, I'm trying something that we that I didn't think I
could do, gives you the sense ofgives you a sense of confidence.
(07:57):
And it also so opens you up to trying something new.
One of the things that's really important as we get older is to
realize that life, you know, we're supposed to be constantly
learning. There's a getting Dan Gilbert, a
Harvard professor who gives Ted talks and I got to know him
because I've, I give Ted talks too.
And he says human beings are works in progress that
(08:19):
mistakenly think they're finished.
Human beings are works in progress that mistakenly think
they're finished. We are meant to be trying new
things. There's a word called liminal.
To be liminal is to be in between two things.
When we're in adolescence, we know we're liminal.
We're growing so fast. We're going through puberty.
We're trying, you know, having first dates and we're having,
you know, driving a car for the first time.
(08:40):
But when we're in middle essence, which is the adult
version, corollary to adolescence, when we're actually
going through hormonal things aswell, we are liminal.
We're going through all kinds oftransitions.
And yet somehow at that, at thisage, in our 40s, fifties, 60s
and beyond, we think that we're supposed to be too old for
transitions. But to realize that our mindset
(09:02):
of accepting that we are constantly gonna be in
transition allows us and gives license for us to try new
things, Yeah. And I was reading an article, I
can't remember where it was from, but it was just recently.
And they're talking about lifelong learners is a predictor
of longevity and it adds to life.
And it doesn't have to be learning anything productive
like, oh, I'm going to learn this skill to do this.
(09:24):
It's just be learning. Something you're interested in.
Know that. Ask yourself what you're
curious. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, there are so many
things that we can learn. And for some of us, we didn't
have time for curiosity. If you're on the treadmill and
you're in the sandwich generation, taking care of both
adult parents, you know, who areaging and kids at the same time,
you know, you may not have the time.
If you're working 60 hours a week at work, you don't have
(09:45):
time to be curious. But as you get older, you can
start, says, make a list. Make a list of things you're
curious and also make a list of things that get better with age.
I, I made a list in anticipationof our time today.
Here's some things that get better with age.
We know things that don't get better with age, but wine gets
better with age. Pickles get better with age.
Whiskey gets better with age. Beef, certain kinds of beef get
(10:05):
better with age. Cheese, leather, sofas, jeans,
flannel sheets, mattresses, slippers, trees, wow, all those
things get better with age. So like, OK, maybe we get better
with age as well. I mean, I like to say that, you
know, when it comes to trees, wethere's old growth forests, old
(10:26):
growth redwoods, but I think they're old growth humans and
all. We tend to get so fixated,
especially in American culture, on the idea that the only way we
define growth is based upon how our body looks.
And as our body doesn't look as good as it gets older,
therefore, you know, we're aging, not growing, but I think
we're growing and aging our whole lives.
(10:46):
It's not growth. Growth is not just something you
do at age 15. Growth is something you do at
70, 5, but it's the growth you're doing at 75 is culturally
and intellectually and relationally.
So it's all these forms of growth that don't necessarily
have to do with the physical plane of your body.
We really. Have to shut off the societal
narrative, though, that that's pushed on us.
I mean, you know, I remember turning 40 and having all the
(11:08):
people say to me, oh, you're notgoing to be able to do that
anymore. And now I'm heading for 50
people like, oh, you're not going to be able to do that
anymore. I'm like why?
Well, maybe one of the exercisesor experiments someone could do
as a result of this episode is to ask themselves maybe that you
make 2 two columns. What is I'm too old to and see
what comes up. You know, no one's going to look
at this, only you. I'm too old to, you know, I'm
old, too old to find a soulmate.I'm too old to start a business.
(11:31):
And then in the other column, maybe say I'm finally at the age
when I can and write down those and take a look at those two
lists. You know, if you have nothing in
the list of I'm too, I'm finallyat the to the age that I can,
then you really need to come to MBA because you need to really
have, you know, you know, a doseof pro aging medicine.
(11:52):
But also look at your I'm too old to list.
I thought I was too old to surf.I thought I was too old to learn
a new language. And I came to realize that I
wasn't. There's a guy named Jim Flaherty
who's come to Mea five times between 87 and 990.
His first time coming to Mea wasin Baja and he surfed at the end
of the week in a in a Baja workshop.
(12:13):
We take you out surfing if you want to.
If you don't want to, you can just video and take photos and
go for a walk in the beach and body surfing.
But if you want to go on a board, he had 80, seven years
old. Wow.
We have pictures of it. He didn't stand up.
He wasn't even trying to stand up.
He was just holding the board and the white water was bringing
him in. And you know, that kind of
spirit. Yeah, that kind of framework of
(12:35):
like, hey, I'm not too old to try something now at 88.
When he came back, he said, you know what I did that I don't
need to do that again because, because I because I had my
experience. But that's, that's the beauty of
living a fully engaged, flourishing life is when you can
try things and realize, OK, you know what?
I I did it and I don't necessarily have to do it again.
(12:55):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I've watched it's
it's many a cohort. I've gone down to the beach and
watched when I'm down there and it's 70s people actually
standing up and, and, and just the, the sense of, Oh my God,
the accomplishment, the reframe that happens.
If we had started at the at the start of the week, we said like,
OK, we're going surfing today. You know, maybe one out of four
(13:17):
would be people would try it by the end of the week, 3 out of
the four are trying it. Similarly here there's people
who go out horseback riding on the ranch in Santa Fe that have
never tried it before and have been a little bit scared.
Sure. And so by the end of the week,
they're, they're up on a horse if they want, or they're doing
sometimes Equino learning through our partnership with
Equus and the, you know, the, the ability for people to
(13:39):
actually try something new that that they thought was out of
their reach. You know, the way to think about
mindset is the following. Is your mindset serving you?
And sometimes closing down options.
You know, Jim, Jim might have said, like at 88, my mindset if
I don't want to do it again, is serving him because I don't want
to get hurt. Yeah.
That's fine. Yeah.
(13:59):
But often the question is, is your mindset serving you?
And it's if it's closing down your options, that isn't always
the best solution for you. Yeah.
And we live in a society where we're told to retire at 65,
we're told to close down. I think that's going to change.
It has to. Well, and that's why this whole
premise of retirement is, is, isflawed for a lot of people
because it's like, OK, what am Igoing to do?
(14:20):
Totally. You know, I'm, I, I don't, I
don't want to be bored with my life.
So, you know, I, I would just say at the end of the day,
mindset is like the fish for water for a fish.
Yeah, it's something that's totally in your life.
You have, you have it just like the fish has water, but you
don't even notice it. And part of what we do at MEA is
to help people to notice what mindsets we do, an exercise, as
(14:41):
you know, the Great Midlife Edit, where we help people to
see they're limiting beliefs that are mindsets that they're
ready to let go of. And then in a collective ritual
have them just throw it into thefire.
Love it. All right, let's give, let's
give people one assignment this week.
Well, I think the one assignmentI would do is just this idea of
make a list of I'm too old to and make a list.
I am just becoming to the age where I can and see what is in
(15:04):
both of those lists. But especially look at the I'm
too old to list and ask yourself, is that true?
OK. Or you or here's another one.
There's another one that that person do 10 years from now what
I was. Just about to say what about?
10 years from now, what will youregret if you don't learn it or
do it? Yeah, that that one.
That's a good one. With friends.
(15:25):
Maybe that's what the exercise is, is have a meal with your
spouse, with a friend, with yoursister or brother and say like,
hey, let's have a conversation about what is what it is that we
would like to do but we are scared of doing.
And this question will help helpus to see the anticipated regret
if we don't do it. Love it.
(15:45):
All right, everybody, there's your assignment for the week.
And this has been another episode of Wisdom Wednesdays
with Chip Conley. And thank you for listening.
Chip, any final words? No Join us on Friday, my next
interview. And if you like what you hear,
leave us a rating, leave us a review on your favorite podcast
platform, and we'll see you again next week.
Yeah. Thanks, Derek.
Thanks for listening to Wisdom Wednesdays on the Midlife
(16:06):
Chrysalis. This show is produced by Midlife
Media. If you have a question you'd
like us to explore in a future episode, please send it to
podcast@meawisdom.com. And if you enjoyed this episode,
help us spread the word by subscribing and leaving a review
on your favorite platform.
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