May 13, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Morgan and Chris dive into the messy reality of time management in midlife — where the days fly by, the to-do list never ends, and energy is the real currency. They talk about procrastination, energy drains vs. energy boosts, and why routines help (but flexibility saves us). As kids get older and the "empty nest" looms, time feels even trickier — and loaded with big questions about purpose and identity.
They don’t promise solutions, but they do offer real talk, a few laughs, and some takeaways:
✔️ Be intentional with your time
✔️ Prioritize what fills you up
✔️ Practice saying no (without guilt)
✔️ Remember: time is not guaranteed
Ask yourself: What am I saying yes and no to this week?
Links:
📚 Atomic Habits by James Clear
👋 Get muddy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:01):
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bring
Morgan (00:06):
the real shit, all the grit and pretty much zero clue
about how to deal with thiscrazy phase of life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and
Unknown (00:22):
join our community, and you'll stay up to date on all
the dirt, and, even better,become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait to
Chris (00:29):
see you there. All right, tighten those boots and let's
get muddy. You.
Good morning.
Morgan (00:47):
Good morning. Wow.
Chris (00:49):
I feel like that was a review of like, basic etiquette.
When I say good morning, yousay, I
Morgan (00:54):
say, I am not a morning person.
Chris (00:59):
I'm not either, but you're, you're better at it than
I am. Though I'm not, I'm notreally a night person,
Morgan (01:06):
I'm a really good between 10 to 12 in the morning
person,
Chris (01:11):
oh shit, maybe I'm not a person.
Morgan (01:16):
How are you this morning?
Chris (01:17):
I'm doing well. I'm drinking tea out of my crab mug,
as one does, it is a mug thathas a big crab on it, because
Morgan (01:26):
you're in Cape Cod.
That's appropriate. It'sappropriate. Yeah, I'm drinking
water. I really wish I weredrinking coffee, but that's
okay. I'm I'm gonna pep up here.
Yeah? All right, well, good luckwith that. Yeah, we've got,
we've got all the derbyfestivities this weekend. At the
time of this recording, that'stoday is oaks day, so I will not
be participating in any of that.
Chris (01:49):
I know it's like little it's like little Christmas there
or something. I don't know. It'sa very big event.
Morgan (01:55):
It's like a mass influx of people. This is when this is
great for our our city, right?
But if you are a local, you'reeither one of those people
that's a die hard, or you areone of those people that's like,
Okay, I'm gonna crawl in a holefor the week. Yeah,
Chris (02:11):
it's interesting, because I was talking to mom last week,
and she said that she didn't shewasn't feeling it this year, and
she thought that part of why shehadn't really been put in the
mood is because thunder didn'thappen. Yeah,
Morgan (02:25):
Thunder over Louisville, which is the big for those of
you that don't know, it's thebig fireworks show that sort of
kicks off all of the derbyevents, usually two to three
weeks before Derby happens. Andit's a big, big, big, big deal.
And, yeah, we were underwater,so we didn't do it. And, yeah,
they also moved around. A lot ofthe events, like the derby
(02:46):
parade was on Sunday instead ofThursday. Yeah, that's weird. I
don't know it was all weird. So
Chris (02:52):
what happens on my side of things is, I think this is
actually fairly common inteachers families, families that
have a lot of teachers, is thechild birthdays are kind of
planned to be in the springsometime, so that you can right,
Morgan (03:08):
because then you can extend your maternity leave into
summer, right? It's a
Chris (03:12):
great plan for the year that the child is born, but when
you have six of them in onefamily, what happens is, there
ends up being a party everyweekend, and that's added on top
of the soccer tournaments, thedance recital, the graduation,
yeah, we already
Morgan (03:28):
talked about how it's a crazy time of year anyway. Oh my
gosh. Well. And also, howseriously do you take birthdays?
You know, like, some people makebirthdays a huge, huge deal, and
then some people are like, Oh,happy birthday. Here's a
present. So there's that too.
But the answer is very serious.
No, I know, I know it's like asport, yes, for for you guys.
Chris (03:49):
So today, given your proclivity towards organization,
tell us what we're talking
Morgan (03:55):
about. Well, you know what? Okay, let's actually just,
let's just bring it down to a,like, a level that everybody
sort of understands. So the factthat we are recording this
morning, right? We have talkedabout how recording in the
evenings is just, it's achallenge for us. We're tired.
There's, it's the end of theday. We're ready to wind down.
And so you and I talked theother day about how, like,
(04:18):
let's, let's see what we can doto change that. And granted,
you've got your schedule, whichis total bonkers, right in terms
of your work, and mine isbonkers for all the reasons it's
bonkers. So for us to be able toconnect during the day during
the week can be a challenge, andwe thought, well, let's try to
do it early in the morningbefore you go to work. So it's
(04:40):
really early. We're gonna seehow this works. But the other
piece of that is like, we'rethis is something that we care
about, and we're trying tomanage our time around it so
that it works and it'ssustainable. So that's what we
want to talk about today, islike, Okay, how do we manage our
time? You know, we are superbusy people in midlife. We're
fucking
Chris (04:59):
time masters. Yes, no,
Morgan (05:02):
we started 20 minutes late.
Chris (05:05):
You're ruining it. You're ruining it. Yeah. Back
Morgan (05:08):
to the the fact that we don't have any answers, but what
we will talk about is, is timein general? You know, like time
is a resource, right? And wethought it was prudent,
especially since we just talkedabout money, money being another
resource. How do we manage ourtime? How do we spend it? And
the reality is that there are abunch of things that we have to
do that we cannot ignore, andthere are things that we want to
(05:31):
do. So we're going to talk alittle bit about that.
Chris (05:34):
Yeah, we talked last time. The last discussion we
left off with was around theemotional relationships that we
have with money. And one of thethings that I carried over into
this conversation, we're nottalking about money anymore,
we're talking about time, butthat's another valuable resource
in our life. And there is thisconcept of, how do I value
(05:55):
myself today and honor beingpresent in this moment, today,
right now, and also the future.
Me, yeah,
Morgan (06:04):
because you have to do both. You have you have to plan
a little bit, but you want to bepresent in the moment that
you're in it at the same time,right?
Chris (06:11):
And particularly in midlife, if you have kids and
family and a career and all ofthose things that you're
balancing for, each one of thosethings comes all these other
things that have to go on thecalendar and or the to do list
every single day, and it justgets really busy, and it's
really easy to just feel likeI'm on a treadmill and there's
(06:34):
nothing that I can do but justfulfill these lists, because
that's all I have time to do.
And somehow what can happen is Iget lost like we can get lost as
who we are and all of that mess.
Morgan (06:48):
That's the particular I don't want to say danger, but
risk in midlife is that I thinkit's easy to start putting your
identity into I am, what Iaccomplish and what I'm doing,
yeah, and, you know, this sortof keeping busy is a distraction
from understanding who we reallyare and what we really want. And
(07:12):
to your point about thetreadmill, you know, like the
treadmill is going, however fastit's going, and if you slow your
pace, you're going to fall offof it, right? Is the feeling,
you know, I know I felt that waybefore, but the reality is, you
know, you can push the button toslow down the speed
Chris (07:27):
you can right what we forget that I don't know about
you. I mean, well, actually,I'll talk about this a little
bit more in a minute, but I feellike I'm maybe in a little bit
different predicament, at leastat the current moment than a lot
of my peers and the people thatI relate to, just in that I have
(07:47):
more time at this particularmoment, I haven't always, yeah,
but it's funny, because when youhave more time, there are still
challenges with time. They'rejust different. But one of the
things before diving into that.
More that I was thinking aboutis earlier in life, I thought of
this analogy of a painting,like, I create this painting of
what I want life to look like.
(08:13):
I'm gonna have three kids, andthey're gonna go to school and,
you know, I want them involvedin activities, and I'm gonna
have a career, and I'm gonna bemarried, whatever those things
are for the individual. I mean,that's kind of what mine looked
like, right? Yeah. And then thatpainting gets sort of frozen in
time. And back to your point,about all I'm doing is just
(08:34):
trying to make sure that I'mliving out that painting. But
the thing is, like, thingschange, like, right? Not the
same painting anymore, but I'mstill hanging on to that. It's
just a blob of paint, right?
It's just a blob of paint andit's black, because that's what
happens when you mix all thecolors.
Morgan (08:55):
They bleed together.
Well, you know, I have alwayshad this, like, when I look
back, okay, I've, I've kept ajournal since I was like eight,
Chris (09:04):
which, by the way, I admire dearly. I cannot do that
shit. Well, I
Morgan (09:10):
don't do it as much anymore in adulthood. You know,
it would be good to do, but whenI look back, I was really good
about it, like all through fromeight through high school into
college even. And it's sointeresting, because when I look
at that, I have always had sortof this weird thing with time,
meaning that, like I I'mdesperate to hold on to it. I
(09:32):
can feel it passing. And thenwhen I had kids, it became even
more in my face. Yeah, I wouldwrite about how, okay, for
instance, like holding my firstson right, like three days after
he was born. I was, I remembersitting in the rocker in the
corner of the nursery. Andgranted, I was hormonal, but
(09:53):
like rocking him and thinkingabout if I told this story
before I may have but you.
Either way, I immediatelythought about how he was gonna
he was already looking bigger.
He was three days old, and Ithought, Oh my God, he's gonna
go to college, you know? Like, Istart bawling, yeah, and
especially this time of year,like you get into graduations,
(10:16):
you get into, like, themilestone stuff, it grabs at me
like shit. Time is just, it'sgoing and I can't, like, I can't
grab onto it. I think thatspeaks the importance of like,
really trying to be in it. Andso I think I've spent a lot of
my life trying to figure thatout, how, okay, how do I get in
it? How do I get in it and gowith it, instead of trying to
(10:39):
grab onto it? Yeah. And I thinkadulthood feels it just feels
different. Have you noticedthat? Does it? Is it the same
for you? Like that, time seemsto just pass exponentially
faster the older we get. Well,
Chris (10:52):
you know, that's the thing that I've always heard,
and that's absolutely myexperience so far. Yeah, it just
goes faster and faster andfaster. And in fact, you know,
my girlfriend and I were justhaving this conversation about
sort of a mini dilemma aboutvacations. And we had talked
about, like her and I haven'treally had a trip for ourselves
(11:16):
in a while. And we had talkedall this year about putting a
week on the calendar this summerwhere we her and I just took a
trip, which is a great thing todo, and then this other thing
came in, where there's aparticular trip that the kids
just love to do, and they'vereally been asking to do this
trip, and she and I have justbeen racking Our brains with the
(11:40):
calendar trying to figure out,when are we going to do this
trip. And the kids are 14 and11, and that sounds like, oh,
there's time, but really we'regoing to freaking blink. I mean,
I've watched it with your kids,I know. And then they're going
to graduate high school, so weliterally could not come up with
a time for like, two years,unless we really make some
(12:03):
decisions about, like, maybe notdoing our trip she and I this
year, and we just do that one.
And you know what? I'm totallygood with that, because, yeah,
you know, that's an example ofhonoring where we are, and we're
never going to get that timeback. Yeah,
Morgan (12:19):
it's a real thing. You look at your calendar, and also
just the day to day, like, howam I gonna find the time to meal
plan and go to the damn grocerystore and, you know, work out or
spend time with my spouse go tothe kids baseball game? I mean,
it is all very real. Have youever seen that meme where it's
(12:39):
like, it says something like,Okay. Adulthood is, is just
repeatedly telling yourselfthat, okay, after this week,
things are going to settle down.
How I've done that, like, Iliterally will scroll through my
my calendar be like, Oh, right.
Here is where it starts to No.
It gets filled up. Yeah, it's,
Chris (12:59):
it usually manifests itself either in the following
two ways we just have to getthrough this week or another.
Tried and True tradition is thecountdown. We have 18 more days
until Christmas vacation. Wehave 37 days, oh yes, until
we're boarding the ship. Youknow, like the fun stuff on one
hand, I love that, because itsays that you have a fun thing
(13:22):
planned. And that's like areally cool thing to do in life,
is always to have something thatyou're looking forward to, but
it can be dangerous, because youcan miss today.
Morgan (13:33):
Yeah, so back to my point, like, how do you get in
time? How do you get in it andgo with
Chris (13:38):
it? I don't know. There's this other analogy that I use in
my own brain to process thissometimes, and it's like, we've
got a car, and we're driving thecar 65 miles down the freeway,
and we need to keep driving thecar at 65 miles an hour while
changing the tire. Like, how doyou do that?
Morgan (13:59):
That sounds like something my son would do? Well,
he would definitely try. Yeah,so let's talk a little bit about
that. How the fuck do we dothat?
Chris (14:08):
And by the way, if there are any engineers listening and
you actually have an idea of howto do it, send us a note,
because I really want to know.
Morgan (14:16):
I know, for me, one of the common pitfalls I fall into.
Let's just talk about thosefirst, because I think that's
more that's just more real. Weare not time masters. We are not
I am perpetually late forthings, and I think part of that
is because I just procrastinate.
Yeah, you know. And if Iprocrastinate, the one thing
that I'm really not wanting todo, it has a domino effect. It
(14:37):
like delays, everything that Ineed to do. You know,
Chris (14:43):
I do procrastination was like a huge word that came up
for me when I was thinking aboutthis topic. And I have this
really long standingrelationship with depression,
and I don't think that'suncommon, but, you know, it
shows up at. All these differentforms. You know, in one hand,
one way that I've usedprocrastination is, it sounds
(15:06):
weird, but almost as amotivator. Say more I
procrastinate. I procrastinate.
The pressure builds. I feellike, Oh my God. And then the
big thing gets close, andsomehow that energy, that
pressure,
Morgan (15:20):
like, lights of fire under your butt. Lights of fire,
right? Yeah, I do that too, butit's stressful as hell, and it's
not like whatever I end up doingis not nearly what it could have
been. Quality
Chris (15:31):
is never what it could have been. And so then there's
always, in my version ofprocrastination, there's
generally always a level ofguilt or regret, or the
combination of the two thatweighs on me, right? And by the
way, all of that shit takes uptime. Yeah,
Morgan (15:50):
time and energy, which is another thing that we should
really talk about, is like, evenif you have the time, do you
have the energy, that issomething you are also spending.
I think that's part ofprocrastination, is like we're
thinking, I don't want to spendmy energy on that thing right
now, you know, I don't, I don'twant to sit down and plan the
grocery list, right? That is oneof I hate doing that. It is,
(16:14):
like, one of the thingsconsistently week to week that I
absolutely hate doing. It's alsomy responsibility, and I have to
do it. It
Chris (16:21):
is better than going to the grocery without a grocery
list. Oh, well, yeah, that'seven worse than writing, I'm
Morgan (16:27):
coming home with Oreos and
Chris (16:30):
like nothing, and you're gonna spend a lot of money, yes,
Morgan (16:34):
a lot, right? So I get it, and I know that, like, I
it's something that I'mcommitted to doing, but I hate
it, yeah? And so there are timeswhen it's like, I want to
procrastinate it. I want to putit off so that I can put my
energy into something else thatI that I really want to do.
Yeah, and that's fair. I getthat, but you still got to get
(16:55):
it done. Yeah. I
Chris (16:56):
love the idea of thinking about energy and different
activities work out differently.
Like, there are some activitiesthat literally take energy away
from me, like they just take alot of energy to do it. Going to
the grocery is probably one ofthose for me cleaning. Like, I
just don't, I don't love that,but it's something that's got to
be done. And then there's otheractivities that really provide
(17:19):
me with energy, and that couldbe taking a walk, getting
outside, exercising, justsitting still, meditating,
reading a book, having quiettime with, you know, somebody
that I care about. Those are allthings that feed me. But I I
noticed that, like in terms ofthe running budget, what happens
if I'm not really thoughtful, isthe energy sucking things. Those
(17:43):
are all the things that we haveto do, and they tend to take
over. Yeah, now I said to you,like, right now, in my
particular moment in life, I'm alittle bit on sabbatical from
that.
Morgan (17:56):
You're tinkering around with the empty nester mode I am,
yeah, which some of ourlisteners are empty nesters, I
know. So that's relevant. Ican't even imagine it right now.
That's
Chris (18:08):
a whole other thing.
Like, when that treadmill thatyou described, it doesn't start
to slowly, blah, blah, blah. Itjust like it's gone, and you're
like, what?
Morgan (18:16):
And you're a little like, Dizzy, you know, when you
get off a treadmill and youcan't, like, you feel like
you're just got off a boat orsomething, right?
Chris (18:23):
And the bottom line for me is that I will find a way to
bitch about something, whether,no matter what's happening, Oh,
totally I didn't have enoughtime. Now I have too much time.
That is why
Morgan (18:33):
we're here. We are here to bitch, I know so depleting
your energy versus energizingyourself. And the difference
between those types ofactivities, right?
Chris (18:43):
What are some of the energy creating activities for
you? Okay,
Morgan (18:48):
duh. I have to sleep. I have to Oh, I
Chris (18:51):
relate to that so much.
Morgan (18:53):
I wish I were one of those people that can go with,
like, four hours of sleep and beright on top of things.
Chris (18:59):
All right, what's your number? Like, bottom line,
number of hours. Oh, god, you're
Morgan (19:02):
gonna laugh at me. No, I won't. It's like, nine hours.
Oh,
Chris (19:08):
I'm fucking 10. Like, I really, I love to be in the 10
zone,
Morgan (19:13):
which Matt does not understand. He's like, you can
sleep when you're dead. Like,get up. But I do, I prioritize
sleep so that I can be moreawake during the day. Now, there
is a tipping point, right? Thereis such a thing as too much
sleep. You know, if I sleep pastthat, then I'm just gonna feel
(19:35):
that sort of lazy haze all day.
But, yeah, I make it a priorityto sleep. Another one, I think
for me, like the real self carestuff, you know, I'm just, I'll
just list it all so, sleep,exercise, trying to make sure
that I eat enough, yeah, thatkind of stuff. It's not fun,
necessarily. And there aredefinitely times when I'm like,
(19:56):
ugh, rolling my eyes, that Iquote, have to do. It. But to
your point about energy, I thinkfront loading my day with that
kind of stuff propels me, and ithelps me have the energy to do
things in a more efficient way,the stuff that I've got to do.
So that's like one quote hack,right is taking the time to do
(20:19):
the things that give me energyactually helps me get the other
shit done more effectively andfaster. Yeah,
Chris (20:28):
I think one of the struggles with that sometimes is
the notion that getting too muchinto that binary mode, like I'm
gonna take a whole day to justdo stuff for myself and fuck
everything else versus, like,really figuring out how to weave
the two things together, andthat's hard, yeah,
Morgan (20:46):
to work anyway, for me, it has to become part of the
routine. It is part of theroutine. Oh,
Chris (20:52):
fucking Jesus. I love routines. I love them.
Morgan (20:58):
They make me feel
Chris (20:59):
safe. If your kids are listening to this, they are all
rolling their eyes like, Oh myGod, here she goes with the
routine again. I'm sure. I just
Morgan (21:08):
want to say how much my dog appreciates my routine,
because she knows exactly whatto expect from me at all times.
Chris (21:15):
Well, God, put that dog in your life and vice versa. For
a reason. You two are, like,soul sisters or something. Well,
I don't
Morgan (21:24):
know, talk about that like, what is your relationship
with routine? How does that?
Does that? Because that doesn'twork for everybody. Sometimes
that feels really constrictingto people. I
Chris (21:33):
definitely am a routine oriented person. I'm not to the
level that I see you doing it. Ithink that when my routine is
disrupted, I don't get toorattled by that most of the
time. And in fact, I like alittle bit of variability, a
little wiggle room. I like tohave a little spice, you know,
(21:53):
but there is definitely astructure. And I do like to be
organized. And I'm very processminded with a lot of things. You
know, I very much get that waywith work. Like, when I get into
work mode, it is a mode, yeah,like, I don't mess around. I
work and I get my stuff done,and I like it. It's like playing
(22:13):
a little game, like, how can Ibe the most efficient with
getting all this done so thatwhen I'm done with work at
Morgan (22:20):
five o'clock or whatever the time, you're not thinking
about it, you're not
Chris (22:23):
letting it. I'm not coming home, and I'm not doing
my notes at home and all of thatstuff like I'm done. So
Morgan (22:29):
there's a time management factor in there.
There is,
Chris (22:32):
yeah, and I take a lot of pride in that routine around
work and being efficient withthat. And one of the reasons why
that's so important for me isthat I feel that it protects my
time outside of work, yeah,because I don't want to be at
nine o'clock worried about thework that I didn't get done
earlier so that I'm ready fortomorrow. And God forbid that
(22:57):
stacking up day after day afterday, right? It
Morgan (22:59):
takes a toll, right? I'm curious, like, when we talk
about routine and like therelationship to habit forming,
and how that relates to time. Ihave not read that book. What is
that book? Atomic habits. Peoplehave told me it's so good. Oh,
yeah. I'm just randomly bringingthat up because I have an
intention to read it. But youknow, you know, you can form
(23:21):
good habits and you can form badhabits. And I think that's what
it is for me with routine, isit's a way for me to develop
habits, because I am veryintentional, usually, about my
routine, and it's a way for meto develop habits that are going
to serve me, at least, ideally,not always, but, but that's the
goal, right, right? And it isnice to have a little bit of
(23:43):
flex in there so that I'm nottotally disrupted if, if it gets
disrupted. But for those of usthat are not super routine
oriented, I'm curious how, howthey are intentional with their
habit building and so on and soforth. That's just putting a
feeler out there for anybody whois a little bit more fly by the
seat of your pants, which also Irespect, because that is being
(24:06):
in the moment. That's probablywhy I'm so terrible at it,
because I'm too busy structuringmy routine.
Chris (24:12):
It's kind of interesting, because the idea of habits and
bringing that into thisdiscussion is is super critical,
and I just didn't really thatword didn't pop up for me a lot.
Me neither, not until we weretalking about routine, right?
There's this other thing, like,back to, sort of the budget
idea, and thinking about time asa resource, and the idea that I
(24:34):
talked about, that analogy of wemake this painting when we're
really young, and then we'rejust following that narrative a
lot of times, unless we're not.
But I think there's anintentionality around taking
stock of all right, like what amI committed to right now, and
what is the family committed to,and what will going through with
all of those commitments on aweekly basis look like? And
(24:57):
how's. It gonna affect like, Isthere time for us to connect?
Are we just gonna be passingships in the night when kids
come home from baseball, I'malready in bed, and they're
eating dinner out of therefrigerator, and I see them
once a week. Like, that's anextreme scenario, but it
happens. Yeah,
Morgan (25:19):
it's a challenge too, because when you talk about it
that way, within the frameworkof a family, right, as the kids
get older, they have their ownways that they want to spend
their time. That's right, andit's not always with with you.
You know their peers become moreimportant, and so it's a
(25:40):
challenge, because you also haveto be realistic about what
everybody else is going to wantto spend their time doing, at
least in my family right now,it's a pipe dream to think that
we're all going to sit down atthe dinner table together at one
time and have a full mealtogether, right every night.
That's not going to happen, notwith the way our lives are
structured right now. And Idon't know, you know, my kids,
(26:01):
they like the things they'redoing. One of them has a job. He
likes his job. He likes to bethere, he likes to earn money.
And that's good. Yeah, it'sgood. It's a it's good for him
to have a work ethic. And so Ihave to consider in that
context, I have to consider whateverybody is actually going to
want to spend their time doingwell. And
Chris (26:18):
what you're talking about is that changes a lot depending
on what stage of development.
When we're talking about kids,yes, like, how old are they? And
you know, you're you're in thatparticular scenario where you've
got one to two of your kids. Isay it that way because the
older of the two younger isevolving towards that more
independent zone, but stillvacillating a little bit, as
(26:41):
kids do, so you've got to sortof plan for them, and that's a
much more structured processthan planning for the other two,
which is much less structured.
And by the way, the other littlething that's in here, that's not
a little thing, is yourself likethinking about what you want to
do. We're on this treadmill. Andwhen the kids are little, the
(27:03):
treadmill is intense, and allthat's being done is like you're
just thinking about, keep thelights on, keep the career
going, keep the kids going, ontrack, right? Survive. And that
becomes speaking of habits, likea habitual, reflexive thing. And
then all of a sudden theuniverse is like, yeah, we're
changing that. And you don'tneed, in fact, you shouldn't be
(27:27):
putting as much structure inthings for the rest of the
family anymore. So now what areyou going to do?
Morgan (27:33):
Yeah, you have to adapt.
Right, right, yeah. And, well, Iwant to go back for a minute to
what you said about, like, what,what is it that you want to do?
And not just that, but like,when we think, when we think,
what, what are the things that Ireally have to do right? What
are my obligations here? Thelist probably isn't as long as
we actually think that it is, ortell ourselves that it is right.
(27:55):
So there's something here abouthaving boundaries around time,
which is like no new, shockingthing, but it's something that's
easy to let go of, right? And sobeing really mindful about,
okay, when something comes toyou, the PTA comes to you and
says, We need brownies for thebake sale, right? Will you bake
300 brownies? My easy answer is,No, I won't. Some people, they
(28:21):
are yes people, right? Theydon't want to disappoint, and
they, to their credit, they theywant to be everyone, everything
for everyone, as much as theycan. I think this is really
commonly seen with moms. I
Chris (28:36):
think I see it a lot with moms, for sure. And I think
that's a good example of whatI'm trying to say is in that
there's a potential to get lost,like, what's your direction?
Yeah,
Morgan (28:48):
on the flip side of that, maybe your absolute
passion is baking and the ideaof this really gets you excited
and energized. And so is thatsomething you want to pour your
energy into and your time. Maybeit
Chris (29:03):
is. And there's another thing too, like when my kids
were young, it was, I remember.
I don't go there anymore becauseit's gotten too expensive, but a
very popular coffee brand, andthey had this lemon pound cake
with like a royal icing. Oh,yes. And the three of us set out
on this mission to recreate thatlemon pound cake. Oh, to make
(29:26):
it, to make it. And we triedmultiple different recipes, and
finally, through trial anderror, we found that one that
was really good and that wasvery close. In fact, it might
have actually been a little bitbetter than the Starbucks one,
which it should have been,because it's not packaged in a
plastic wrapper for howeverlong. Yeah, but baking was an
(29:46):
experience and a connectingpoint, so I could see how the
brownies could be that too,right? It's taking me to our
tradition around making stickybuns every Christmas. It's a
day. Long process, and one ofthe things that's been really
sometimes a challenge, because Ican be a little bit controlling
(30:06):
about the process like I want itto be. I want to make sure
everything's right in theingredients and but what we've
endeavored to do is to make it agroup activity. You just said
Morgan (30:19):
something really interesting that I want to
follow up on, which is thiswhole thing about relinquishing
control. Yeah, okay. Because forme, as we all know, control is
something I try to maintain, andthat is actually something that
takes up a lot of my time,because when I am the one in
control all the time, I am theone that usually wants to be
(30:40):
doing all the things, because Ijust can't let it go. And so
delegating tasks, letting go,letting things get done a
different way, yes, is crucialto me being able to get more of
my own time back and sanity forthat matter, right? Like when I
think about the kids doingchores around the house. Are
(31:02):
they doing the chores the waythat I would do the chores? No.
But first of all, it's good forthem to learn those things, to
how to do them on their own,right? But it's also great for
me to just step back and okay, Ican go do what I need to do and
what I want to do, so I don'thave to be right in the middle
of all the activity, conductingit all the time, there's
Chris (31:23):
a beauty there in you allowing yourself to have some
space to be yourself, and alsoyou allowing within some
structure with kids. Anyway, thekids some space to learn and
explore and honestly, like messthings up a little bit so that
they're learning their ownprocess. Yeah, allowing a little
(31:44):
bit of space for everybody is soimportant. And I think in the
context of time, it's superimportant because that is the
gateway to being able to say,okay, like they're gonna handle
it, I don't need to. And I thinkthis is a particular thing with
moms. It is a thing for dadstoo. It just maybe looks
(32:04):
different. I don't need to bethe hero here or the martyr.
Yeah,
Morgan (32:08):
as you were saying that so much of what was coming up to
me is there's this whole imageof just letting go, instead of
trying to hold on to time andgrab it. How do you get into it?
And maybe the answer is, you letit go. When
Chris (32:22):
you say, let it go, I literally have this little
churning in my stomach like,okay, here we go. We're gonna
let go. Like, it's a visceralfeeling. It's a process. Yeah,
it's such a push pull, lettinggo, like I feel impelled to do
it and like I don't want to atthe same time,
Morgan (32:42):
yeah. And yet, when I imagine myself 100 years from
now, on my deathbed,
Chris (32:49):
your routines are very effective. Okay, I'm not gonna
live that long. But
Morgan (32:53):
you know, you have this, this idea that you're gonna have
all these sort of like memoriesflash before your eyes before
you go and I feel like the onlyway that I'm going to have that
is if I let go, you don't reallyget those memories to seep into
your core. At least I don'tunless I'm just there, yeah, and
(33:14):
I can't be there if I'm whiteknuckling it the whole time.
Yes. So we've talked aboutcontrol. We talked about routine
and habit building. We talkedabout energy and like, being
mindful about what we pick. Andso that has something to do with
boundaries. We get to choose howwe spend our time. And
Chris (33:32):
the other thing that we talked about is that life phase
shift towards the emptiness, andit feels like this vacuum gets
left. So
Morgan (33:41):
that is one of my biggest fears. I have said to
people before, okay, I'll put itinto this context, but it kind
of applies, no matter what Ithink about. Like we put so much
of our energy, especially asparents, we're constantly
pouring into our kids, and it'seasy to let that sort of become
our identity. Like, I am a mom,you know, and I am a mom. I wear
(34:03):
that very proudly, but I've,I've always been a little bit
hesitant to just fall full forceinto that the way that some
people do, because I'm like,okay, but they leave, you know,
they grow up and they leave, andthen what am I? Because I still
have half my life left,hopefully. I
Chris (34:21):
mean, come on, where's your math? You're gonna live 100
more years. So you're only athird through. We've actually
not named this podcast correctlyfor you. This is the third life
mud, yeah.
Morgan (34:33):
But I have this fear of like, okay, like I look at my
husband and I go, Well, who areyou and who am I? You know that
that empty nest thing has alwaysbeen a little bit on my radar,
which I think helps me keep holdof me a little bit. But I'm I'm
curious what other people'sexperience with it are. You're
sort of experimenting with it.
I'm sure there are people outthere that have they're full
(34:55):
blown into it. I want to knowmore about that. Yeah.
Chris (35:00):
Yeah, you know, I kind of have my foot in both worlds a
little bit, but I would sayright now, it's a bit more in
the empty nest world, yeah.
Morgan (35:08):
So what's this vacuum that you're talking like, what
does that what challenges doesthat bring up? Well, just
Chris (35:14):
logistically, like all those things that were crammed
in, like, we got to go here, andwe got to do this, and we got to
make sure that, you know, themeal is prepared by 5pm and
we're cleaned up by 530 and thegrind, it's just gone. And then,
from like, more of a socialaspect, all of those things that
you were doing in parallel withother people that had kids are
(35:37):
either not there or it's vastlyless than it was. And so it's
socially different too, andthere's a lot more time at
least. What happens for me isthat question, like, all the
existential stuff, like, what'sthe point? Why am I here? Who am
I? Like? It starts, Oh,
Unknown (35:55):
you mean, starts, like, screaming
Chris (35:57):
at you. Yeah,
Morgan (35:58):
you mean the scary questions, yeah, all the things
that we typically put into thebackground come to the
forefront.
Chris (36:06):
It's interesting, because I don't know how intentional
that is, a lot of times it justwhen things are really busy, you
just not,
Unknown (36:14):
you don't have the the bandwidth, yeah, it gets pushed
in the back,
Chris (36:18):
and then all of a sudden, you look at things and you're
like, Okay, well, I've beenworking for that painting for my
entire life, but now, like, what
Morgan (36:27):
for me that feels a little overwhelming or scary or,
well, it
Chris (36:31):
can, but there is another side to it, and that's the it
can be exciting. There'sopportunity, but it doesn't
always feel good in thebeginning, being
Morgan (36:40):
able to look at that as an opportunity or something
exciting is going to lend itselfto sort of building what you
want for that second phase,right? And being intentional
about how you want to spend yourtime in that second phase. And
by the way, like we haven'treally brought up this whole
concept that time is notpromised to us, right? Like,
(37:03):
there's that too. It's reallynot ours.
Chris (37:05):
There's that and that right? There just hearkens the
importance of We hear it all thetime, and it's easy to just be
like, come on, already, with theone day at a time, and yeah, but
it's so fucking true. And thatdoesn't mean we can just say,
Well, yeah, the world's endingtomorrow. So I'm, I'm just
spending all my money today, andI'm, I'm not doing anything I'm
(37:27):
supposed to do, like, No, that'sno, that's not the thing. So
what's the recap? What are themicronutrients that are with us
on time?
Morgan (37:37):
The big one, I think, that came to light for me, is
the letting go thing, reallyletting go and not trying to
control time, because can't dothat either, is going to help me
be more present in it, insteadof chasing it and continuing to
protect my energy and reallyfront loading my day with
energizing activities. You know,I really it's important to me to
(38:00):
get up and exercise and take awalk and be outside a little
bit. I like to start my day thatway, because I feel I feel
ready, and also being able tosay no to stuff. For sure, my
time is really important to me.
And so I think really takingstock of the value of your time
and protecting that too, you getto choose, oh and also do the
(38:22):
thing you don't want to dofirst. Oh, yeah, after you've
done the energizing things,because otherwise I go into
procrastination land, and thennone of the things on the list
get done. What about you? Well,that
Chris (38:33):
feeds into one of mine, which is limit procrastination,
because procrastination is justa time sucker, really, for me,
and the other big one is justaround being really conscious of
how I'm invested in my time,what I'm committed to, and
remembering there's always roomto be flexible to some degree,
(38:56):
not everything can be changed,and there are certain things
that Need to be prioritized, butwe do have some power in that.
And I think it's easy to forgetbecause we get on the treadmill
and we get the blinders on andwe're just headed to the
destination. That's my bigtakeaway from this, and embedded
in that, I love the talk aboutenergy and self care. And you
(39:17):
know, by the way, just as aquick side note, some of the
things that are energizing forme are also things that I don't
really particularly want to dowhen I set out to do them.
Exercise is one of those. Like,yeah, we get up and go, God, I
want to just go put myself inpain, and I want to, like, pant
all over the place and getsweaty. Like, no, I don't
(39:39):
particularly love that, but Ilove how I feel when I'm
consistently doing that, and theenergy that it gives me
Morgan (39:46):
later. Yeah, it's a little bit of that. Putting
something in the bank for later.
You're honoring your futureself. And
Chris (39:52):
this is sort of a Rando pop culture reference from a
long time ago, but I rememberhearing some interview with
George. Clooney, like, 10 or 15years ago, and he has been, you
know, really committed to hisphysical fitness. And he was
talking about that, and he said,You know, I just want to be able
to do what I want to do. Like ifI want to go out and do a 10
(40:14):
mile hike and see somethingbeautiful, I want to physically
be able to do that. So stayingfit allows that option. I
Morgan (40:21):
just want to be around and I want to be able to do
stuff. So bottom line for peopleto just consider, I want to
leave them with, ask yourselfwhat you're saying yes to and
what you're saying no to when itcomes to your time, like if you
just pay attention this week, ofthose two questions, What are
you saying yes to? What are yousaying no to and
Chris (40:41):
then assess, does that sound right? Yeah, I feel good
about my answers to
Morgan (40:45):
that. Okay, well, that's enough time talking about time,
all right. Well, I'm all out oftime. We're gonna leave you now,
so we'll see you next time
Chris (40:52):
in the mud. Thanks for being with us in the mud today,
Unknown (41:00):
if you liked this episode, do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgoing to make sure you never
miss an episode, and it's goingto help us grow our muddy
community, which would mean theworld to us. See you
Chris (41:11):
next time in the mud you
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bring
Morgan (00:06):
the real shit, all the grit and pretty much zero clue
about how to deal with thiscrazy phase of life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and
Unknown (00:22):
join our community, and you'll stay up to date on all
the dirt, and, even better,become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait to
Chris (00:29):
see you there. All right, tighten those boots and let's
get muddy. You.
Good morning.
Morgan (00:47):
Good morning. Wow.
Chris (00:49):
I feel like that was a review of like, basic etiquette.
When I say good morning, yousay, I
Morgan (00:54):
say, I am not a morning person.
Chris (00:59):
I'm not either, but you're, you're better at it than
I am. Though I'm not, I'm notreally a night person,
Morgan (01:06):
I'm a really good between 10 to 12 in the morning
person,
Chris (01:11):
oh shit, maybe I'm not a person.
Morgan (01:16):
How are you this morning?
Chris (01:17):
I'm doing well. I'm drinking tea out of my crab mug,
as one does, it is a mug thathas a big crab on it, because
Morgan (01:26):
you're in Cape Cod.
That's appropriate. It'sappropriate. Yeah, I'm drinking
water. I really wish I weredrinking coffee, but that's
okay. I'm I'm gonna pep up here.
Yeah? All right, well, good luckwith that. Yeah, we've got,
we've got all the derbyfestivities this weekend. At the
time of this recording, that'stoday is oaks day, so I will not
be participating in any of that.
Chris (01:49):
I know it's like little it's like little Christmas there
or something. I don't know. It'sa very big event.
Morgan (01:55):
It's like a mass influx of people. This is when this is
great for our our city, right?
But if you are a local, you'reeither one of those people
that's a die hard, or you areone of those people that's like,
Okay, I'm gonna crawl in a holefor the week. Yeah,
Chris (02:11):
it's interesting, because I was talking to mom last week,
and she said that she didn't shewasn't feeling it this year, and
she thought that part of why shehadn't really been put in the
mood is because thunder didn'thappen. Yeah,
Morgan (02:25):
Thunder over Louisville, which is the big for those of
you that don't know, it's thebig fireworks show that sort of
kicks off all of the derbyevents, usually two to three
weeks before Derby happens. Andit's a big, big, big, big deal.
And, yeah, we were underwater,so we didn't do it. And, yeah,
they also moved around. A lot ofthe events, like the derby
(02:46):
parade was on Sunday instead ofThursday. Yeah, that's weird. I
don't know it was all weird. So
Chris (02:52):
what happens on my side of things is, I think this is
actually fairly common inteachers families, families that
have a lot of teachers, is thechild birthdays are kind of
planned to be in the springsometime, so that you can right,
Morgan (03:08):
because then you can extend your maternity leave into
summer, right? It's a
Chris (03:12):
great plan for the year that the child is born, but when
you have six of them in onefamily, what happens is, there
ends up being a party everyweekend, and that's added on top
of the soccer tournaments, thedance recital, the graduation,
yeah, we already
Morgan (03:28):
talked about how it's a crazy time of year anyway. Oh my
gosh. Well. And also, howseriously do you take birthdays?
You know, like, some people makebirthdays a huge, huge deal, and
then some people are like, Oh,happy birthday. Here's a
present. So there's that too.
But the answer is very serious.
No, I know, I know it's like asport, yes, for for you guys.
Chris (03:49):
So today, given your proclivity towards organization,
tell us what we're talking
Morgan (03:55):
about. Well, you know what? Okay, let's actually just,
let's just bring it down to a,like, a level that everybody
sort of understands. So the factthat we are recording this
morning, right? We have talkedabout how recording in the
evenings is just, it's achallenge for us. We're tired.
There's, it's the end of theday. We're ready to wind down.
And so you and I talked theother day about how, like,
(04:18):
let's, let's see what we can doto change that. And granted,
you've got your schedule, whichis total bonkers, right in terms
of your work, and mine isbonkers for all the reasons it's
bonkers. So for us to be able toconnect during the day during
the week can be a challenge, andwe thought, well, let's try to
do it early in the morningbefore you go to work. So it's
(04:40):
really early. We're gonna seehow this works. But the other
piece of that is like, we'rethis is something that we care
about, and we're trying tomanage our time around it so
that it works and it'ssustainable. So that's what we
want to talk about today, islike, Okay, how do we manage our
time? You know, we are superbusy people in midlife. We're
fucking
Chris (04:59):
time masters. Yes, no,
Morgan (05:02):
we started 20 minutes late.
Chris (05:05):
You're ruining it. You're ruining it. Yeah. Back
Morgan (05:08):
to the the fact that we don't have any answers, but what
we will talk about is, is timein general? You know, like time
is a resource, right? And wethought it was prudent,
especially since we just talkedabout money, money being another
resource. How do we manage ourtime? How do we spend it? And
the reality is that there are abunch of things that we have to
do that we cannot ignore, andthere are things that we want to
(05:31):
do. So we're going to talk alittle bit about that.
Chris (05:34):
Yeah, we talked last time. The last discussion we
left off with was around theemotional relationships that we
have with money. And one of thethings that I carried over into
this conversation, we're nottalking about money anymore,
we're talking about time, butthat's another valuable resource
in our life. And there is thisconcept of, how do I value
(05:55):
myself today and honor beingpresent in this moment, today,
right now, and also the future.
Me, yeah,
Morgan (06:04):
because you have to do both. You have you have to plan
a little bit, but you want to bepresent in the moment that
you're in it at the same time,right?
Chris (06:11):
And particularly in midlife, if you have kids and
family and a career and all ofthose things that you're
balancing for, each one of thosethings comes all these other
things that have to go on thecalendar and or the to do list
every single day, and it justgets really busy, and it's
really easy to just feel likeI'm on a treadmill and there's
(06:34):
nothing that I can do but justfulfill these lists, because
that's all I have time to do.
And somehow what can happen is Iget lost like we can get lost as
who we are and all of that mess.
Morgan (06:48):
That's the particular I don't want to say danger, but
risk in midlife is that I thinkit's easy to start putting your
identity into I am, what Iaccomplish and what I'm doing,
yeah, and, you know, this sortof keeping busy is a distraction
from understanding who we reallyare and what we really want. And
(07:12):
to your point about thetreadmill, you know, like the
treadmill is going, however fastit's going, and if you slow your
pace, you're going to fall offof it, right? Is the feeling,
you know, I know I felt that waybefore, but the reality is, you
know, you can push the button toslow down the speed
Chris (07:27):
you can right what we forget that I don't know about
you. I mean, well, actually,I'll talk about this a little
bit more in a minute, but I feellike I'm maybe in a little bit
different predicament, at leastat the current moment than a lot
of my peers and the people thatI relate to, just in that I have
(07:47):
more time at this particularmoment, I haven't always, yeah,
but it's funny, because when youhave more time, there are still
challenges with time. They'rejust different. But one of the
things before diving into that.
More that I was thinking aboutis earlier in life, I thought of
this analogy of a painting,like, I create this painting of
what I want life to look like.
(08:13):
I'm gonna have three kids, andthey're gonna go to school and,
you know, I want them involvedin activities, and I'm gonna
have a career, and I'm gonna bemarried, whatever those things
are for the individual. I mean,that's kind of what mine looked
like, right? Yeah. And then thatpainting gets sort of frozen in
time. And back to your point,about all I'm doing is just
(08:34):
trying to make sure that I'mliving out that painting. But
the thing is, like, thingschange, like, right? Not the
same painting anymore, but I'mstill hanging on to that. It's
just a blob of paint, right?
It's just a blob of paint andit's black, because that's what
happens when you mix all thecolors.
Morgan (08:55):
They bleed together.
Well, you know, I have alwayshad this, like, when I look
back, okay, I've, I've kept ajournal since I was like eight,
Chris (09:04):
which, by the way, I admire dearly. I cannot do that
shit. Well, I
Morgan (09:10):
don't do it as much anymore in adulthood. You know,
it would be good to do, but whenI look back, I was really good
about it, like all through fromeight through high school into
college even. And it's sointeresting, because when I look
at that, I have always had sortof this weird thing with time,
meaning that, like I I'mdesperate to hold on to it. I
(09:32):
can feel it passing. And thenwhen I had kids, it became even
more in my face. Yeah, I wouldwrite about how, okay, for
instance, like holding my firstson right, like three days after
he was born. I was, I remembersitting in the rocker in the
corner of the nursery. Andgranted, I was hormonal, but
(09:53):
like rocking him and thinkingabout if I told this story
before I may have but you.
Either way, I immediatelythought about how he was gonna
he was already looking bigger.
He was three days old, and Ithought, Oh my God, he's gonna
go to college, you know? Like, Istart bawling, yeah, and
especially this time of year,like you get into graduations,
(10:16):
you get into, like, themilestone stuff, it grabs at me
like shit. Time is just, it'sgoing and I can't, like, I can't
grab onto it. I think thatspeaks the importance of like,
really trying to be in it. Andso I think I've spent a lot of
my life trying to figure thatout, how, okay, how do I get in
it? How do I get in it and gowith it, instead of trying to
(10:39):
grab onto it? Yeah. And I thinkadulthood feels it just feels
different. Have you noticedthat? Does it? Is it the same
for you? Like that, time seemsto just pass exponentially
faster the older we get. Well,
Chris (10:52):
you know, that's the thing that I've always heard,
and that's absolutely myexperience so far. Yeah, it just
goes faster and faster andfaster. And in fact, you know,
my girlfriend and I were justhaving this conversation about
sort of a mini dilemma aboutvacations. And we had talked
about, like her and I haven'treally had a trip for ourselves
(11:16):
in a while. And we had talkedall this year about putting a
week on the calendar this summerwhere we her and I just took a
trip, which is a great thing todo, and then this other thing
came in, where there's aparticular trip that the kids
just love to do, and they'vereally been asking to do this
trip, and she and I have justbeen racking Our brains with the
(11:40):
calendar trying to figure out,when are we going to do this
trip. And the kids are 14 and11, and that sounds like, oh,
there's time, but really we'regoing to freaking blink. I mean,
I've watched it with your kids,I know. And then they're going
to graduate high school, so weliterally could not come up with
a time for like, two years,unless we really make some
(12:03):
decisions about, like, maybe notdoing our trip she and I this
year, and we just do that one.
And you know what? I'm totallygood with that, because, yeah,
you know, that's an example ofhonoring where we are, and we're
never going to get that timeback. Yeah,
Morgan (12:19):
it's a real thing. You look at your calendar, and also
just the day to day, like, howam I gonna find the time to meal
plan and go to the damn grocerystore and, you know, work out or
spend time with my spouse go tothe kids baseball game? I mean,
it is all very real. Have youever seen that meme where it's
(12:39):
like, it says something like,Okay. Adulthood is, is just
repeatedly telling yourselfthat, okay, after this week,
things are going to settle down.
How I've done that, like, Iliterally will scroll through my
my calendar be like, Oh, right.
Here is where it starts to No.
It gets filled up. Yeah, it's,
Chris (12:59):
it usually manifests itself either in the following
two ways we just have to getthrough this week or another.
Tried and True tradition is thecountdown. We have 18 more days
until Christmas vacation. Wehave 37 days, oh yes, until
we're boarding the ship. Youknow, like the fun stuff on one
hand, I love that, because itsays that you have a fun thing
(13:22):
planned. And that's like areally cool thing to do in life,
is always to have something thatyou're looking forward to, but
it can be dangerous, because youcan miss today.
Morgan (13:33):
Yeah, so back to my point, like, how do you get in
time? How do you get in it andgo with
Chris (13:38):
it? I don't know. There's this other analogy that I use in
my own brain to process thissometimes, and it's like, we've
got a car, and we're driving thecar 65 miles down the freeway,
and we need to keep driving thecar at 65 miles an hour while
changing the tire. Like, how doyou do that?
Morgan (13:59):
That sounds like something my son would do? Well,
he would definitely try. Yeah,so let's talk a little bit about
that. How the fuck do we dothat?
Chris (14:08):
And by the way, if there are any engineers listening and
you actually have an idea of howto do it, send us a note,
because I really want to know.
Morgan (14:16):
I know, for me, one of the common pitfalls I fall into.
Let's just talk about thosefirst, because I think that's
more that's just more real. Weare not time masters. We are not
I am perpetually late forthings, and I think part of that
is because I just procrastinate.
Yeah, you know. And if Iprocrastinate, the one thing
that I'm really not wanting todo, it has a domino effect. It
(14:37):
like delays, everything that Ineed to do. You know,
Chris (14:43):
I do procrastination was like a huge word that came up
for me when I was thinking aboutthis topic. And I have this
really long standingrelationship with depression,
and I don't think that'suncommon, but, you know, it
shows up at. All these differentforms. You know, in one hand,
one way that I've usedprocrastination is, it sounds
(15:06):
weird, but almost as amotivator. Say more I
procrastinate. I procrastinate.
The pressure builds. I feellike, Oh my God. And then the
big thing gets close, andsomehow that energy, that
pressure,
Morgan (15:20):
like, lights of fire under your butt. Lights of fire,
right? Yeah, I do that too, butit's stressful as hell, and it's
not like whatever I end up doingis not nearly what it could have
been. Quality
Chris (15:31):
is never what it could have been. And so then there's
always, in my version ofprocrastination, there's
generally always a level ofguilt or regret, or the
combination of the two thatweighs on me, right? And by the
way, all of that shit takes uptime. Yeah,
Morgan (15:50):
time and energy, which is another thing that we should
really talk about, is like, evenif you have the time, do you
have the energy, that issomething you are also spending.
I think that's part ofprocrastination, is like we're
thinking, I don't want to spendmy energy on that thing right
now, you know, I don't, I don'twant to sit down and plan the
grocery list, right? That is oneof I hate doing that. It is,
(16:14):
like, one of the thingsconsistently week to week that I
absolutely hate doing. It's alsomy responsibility, and I have to
do it. It
Chris (16:21):
is better than going to the grocery without a grocery
list. Oh, well, yeah, that'seven worse than writing, I'm
Morgan (16:27):
coming home with Oreos and
Chris (16:30):
like nothing, and you're gonna spend a lot of money, yes,
Morgan (16:34):
a lot, right? So I get it, and I know that, like, I
it's something that I'mcommitted to doing, but I hate
it, yeah? And so there are timeswhen it's like, I want to
procrastinate it. I want to putit off so that I can put my
energy into something else thatI that I really want to do.
Yeah, and that's fair. I getthat, but you still got to get
(16:55):
it done. Yeah. I
Chris (16:56):
love the idea of thinking about energy and different
activities work out differently.
Like, there are some activitiesthat literally take energy away
from me, like they just take alot of energy to do it. Going to
the grocery is probably one ofthose for me cleaning. Like, I
just don't, I don't love that,but it's something that's got to
be done. And then there's otheractivities that really provide
(17:19):
me with energy, and that couldbe taking a walk, getting
outside, exercising, justsitting still, meditating,
reading a book, having quiettime with, you know, somebody
that I care about. Those are allthings that feed me. But I I
noticed that, like in terms ofthe running budget, what happens
if I'm not really thoughtful, isthe energy sucking things. Those
(17:43):
are all the things that we haveto do, and they tend to take
over. Yeah, now I said to you,like, right now, in my
particular moment in life, I'm alittle bit on sabbatical from
that.
Morgan (17:56):
You're tinkering around with the empty nester mode I am,
yeah, which some of ourlisteners are empty nesters, I
know. So that's relevant. Ican't even imagine it right now.
That's
Chris (18:08):
a whole other thing.
Like, when that treadmill thatyou described, it doesn't start
to slowly, blah, blah, blah. Itjust like it's gone, and you're
like, what?
Morgan (18:16):
And you're a little like, Dizzy, you know, when you
get off a treadmill and youcan't, like, you feel like
you're just got off a boat orsomething, right?
Chris (18:23):
And the bottom line for me is that I will find a way to
bitch about something, whether,no matter what's happening, Oh,
totally I didn't have enoughtime. Now I have too much time.
That is why
Morgan (18:33):
we're here. We are here to bitch, I know so depleting
your energy versus energizingyourself. And the difference
between those types ofactivities, right?
Chris (18:43):
What are some of the energy creating activities for
you? Okay,
Morgan (18:48):
duh. I have to sleep. I have to Oh, I
Chris (18:51):
relate to that so much.
Morgan (18:53):
I wish I were one of those people that can go with,
like, four hours of sleep and beright on top of things.
Chris (18:59):
All right, what's your number? Like, bottom line,
number of hours. Oh, god, you're
Morgan (19:02):
gonna laugh at me. No, I won't. It's like, nine hours.
Oh,
Chris (19:08):
I'm fucking 10. Like, I really, I love to be in the 10
zone,
Morgan (19:13):
which Matt does not understand. He's like, you can
sleep when you're dead. Like,get up. But I do, I prioritize
sleep so that I can be moreawake during the day. Now, there
is a tipping point, right? Thereis such a thing as too much
sleep. You know, if I sleep pastthat, then I'm just gonna feel
(19:35):
that sort of lazy haze all day.
But, yeah, I make it a priorityto sleep. Another one, I think
for me, like the real self carestuff, you know, I'm just, I'll
just list it all so, sleep,exercise, trying to make sure
that I eat enough, yeah, thatkind of stuff. It's not fun,
necessarily. And there aredefinitely times when I'm like,
(19:56):
ugh, rolling my eyes, that Iquote, have to do. It. But to
your point about energy, I thinkfront loading my day with that
kind of stuff propels me, and ithelps me have the energy to do
things in a more efficient way,the stuff that I've got to do.
So that's like one quote hack,right is taking the time to do
(20:19):
the things that give me energyactually helps me get the other
shit done more effectively andfaster. Yeah,
Chris (20:28):
I think one of the struggles with that sometimes is
the notion that getting too muchinto that binary mode, like I'm
gonna take a whole day to justdo stuff for myself and fuck
everything else versus, like,really figuring out how to weave
the two things together, andthat's hard, yeah,
Morgan (20:46):
to work anyway, for me, it has to become part of the
routine. It is part of theroutine. Oh,
Chris (20:52):
fucking Jesus. I love routines. I love them.
Morgan (20:58):
They make me feel
Chris (20:59):
safe. If your kids are listening to this, they are all
rolling their eyes like, Oh myGod, here she goes with the
routine again. I'm sure. I just
Morgan (21:08):
want to say how much my dog appreciates my routine,
because she knows exactly whatto expect from me at all times.
Chris (21:15):
Well, God, put that dog in your life and vice versa. For
a reason. You two are, like,soul sisters or something. Well,
I don't
Morgan (21:24):
know, talk about that like, what is your relationship
with routine? How does that?
Does that? Because that doesn'twork for everybody. Sometimes
that feels really constrictingto people. I
Chris (21:33):
definitely am a routine oriented person. I'm not to the
level that I see you doing it. Ithink that when my routine is
disrupted, I don't get toorattled by that most of the
time. And in fact, I like alittle bit of variability, a
little wiggle room. I like tohave a little spice, you know,
(21:53):
but there is definitely astructure. And I do like to be
organized. And I'm very processminded with a lot of things. You
know, I very much get that waywith work. Like, when I get into
work mode, it is a mode, yeah,like, I don't mess around. I
work and I get my stuff done,and I like it. It's like playing
(22:13):
a little game, like, how can Ibe the most efficient with
getting all this done so thatwhen I'm done with work at
Morgan (22:20):
five o'clock or whatever the time, you're not thinking
about it, you're not
Chris (22:23):
letting it. I'm not coming home, and I'm not doing
my notes at home and all of thatstuff like I'm done. So
Morgan (22:29):
there's a time management factor in there.
There is,
Chris (22:32):
yeah, and I take a lot of pride in that routine around
work and being efficient withthat. And one of the reasons why
that's so important for me isthat I feel that it protects my
time outside of work, yeah,because I don't want to be at
nine o'clock worried about thework that I didn't get done
earlier so that I'm ready fortomorrow. And God forbid that
(22:57):
stacking up day after day afterday, right? It
Morgan (22:59):
takes a toll, right? I'm curious, like, when we talk
about routine and like therelationship to habit forming,
and how that relates to time. Ihave not read that book. What is
that book? Atomic habits. Peoplehave told me it's so good. Oh,
yeah. I'm just randomly bringingthat up because I have an
intention to read it. But youknow, you know, you can form
(23:21):
good habits and you can form badhabits. And I think that's what
it is for me with routine, isit's a way for me to develop
habits, because I am veryintentional, usually, about my
routine, and it's a way for meto develop habits that are going
to serve me, at least, ideally,not always, but, but that's the
goal, right, right? And it isnice to have a little bit of
(23:43):
flex in there so that I'm nottotally disrupted if, if it gets
disrupted. But for those of usthat are not super routine
oriented, I'm curious how, howthey are intentional with their
habit building and so on and soforth. That's just putting a
feeler out there for anybody whois a little bit more fly by the
seat of your pants, which also Irespect, because that is being
(24:06):
in the moment. That's probablywhy I'm so terrible at it,
because I'm too busy structuringmy routine.
Chris (24:12):
It's kind of interesting, because the idea of habits and
bringing that into thisdiscussion is is super critical,
and I just didn't really thatword didn't pop up for me a lot.
Me neither, not until we weretalking about routine, right?
There's this other thing, like,back to, sort of the budget
idea, and thinking about time asa resource, and the idea that I
(24:34):
talked about, that analogy of wemake this painting when we're
really young, and then we'rejust following that narrative a
lot of times, unless we're not.
But I think there's anintentionality around taking
stock of all right, like what amI committed to right now, and
what is the family committed to,and what will going through with
all of those commitments on aweekly basis look like? And
(24:57):
how's. It gonna affect like, Isthere time for us to connect?
Are we just gonna be passingships in the night when kids
come home from baseball, I'malready in bed, and they're
eating dinner out of therefrigerator, and I see them
once a week. Like, that's anextreme scenario, but it
happens. Yeah,
Morgan (25:19):
it's a challenge too, because when you talk about it
that way, within the frameworkof a family, right, as the kids
get older, they have their ownways that they want to spend
their time. That's right, andit's not always with with you.
You know their peers become moreimportant, and so it's a
(25:40):
challenge, because you also haveto be realistic about what
everybody else is going to wantto spend their time doing, at
least in my family right now,it's a pipe dream to think that
we're all going to sit down atthe dinner table together at one
time and have a full mealtogether, right every night.
That's not going to happen, notwith the way our lives are
structured right now. And Idon't know, you know, my kids,
(26:01):
they like the things they'redoing. One of them has a job. He
likes his job. He likes to bethere, he likes to earn money.
And that's good. Yeah, it'sgood. It's a it's good for him
to have a work ethic. And so Ihave to consider in that
context, I have to consider whateverybody is actually going to
want to spend their time doingwell. And
Chris (26:18):
what you're talking about is that changes a lot depending
on what stage of development.
When we're talking about kids,yes, like, how old are they? And
you know, you're you're in thatparticular scenario where you've
got one to two of your kids. Isay it that way because the
older of the two younger isevolving towards that more
independent zone, but stillvacillating a little bit, as
(26:41):
kids do, so you've got to sortof plan for them, and that's a
much more structured processthan planning for the other two,
which is much less structured.
And by the way, the other littlething that's in here, that's not
a little thing, is yourself likethinking about what you want to
do. We're on this treadmill. Andwhen the kids are little, the
(27:03):
treadmill is intense, and allthat's being done is like you're
just thinking about, keep thelights on, keep the career
going, keep the kids going, ontrack, right? Survive. And that
becomes speaking of habits, likea habitual, reflexive thing. And
then all of a sudden theuniverse is like, yeah, we're
changing that. And you don'tneed, in fact, you shouldn't be
(27:27):
putting as much structure inthings for the rest of the
family anymore. So now what areyou going to do?
Morgan (27:33):
Yeah, you have to adapt.
Right, right, yeah. And, well, Iwant to go back for a minute to
what you said about, like, what,what is it that you want to do?
And not just that, but like,when we think, when we think,
what, what are the things that Ireally have to do right? What
are my obligations here? Thelist probably isn't as long as
we actually think that it is, ortell ourselves that it is right.
(27:55):
So there's something here abouthaving boundaries around time,
which is like no new, shockingthing, but it's something that's
easy to let go of, right? And sobeing really mindful about,
okay, when something comes toyou, the PTA comes to you and
says, We need brownies for thebake sale, right? Will you bake
300 brownies? My easy answer is,No, I won't. Some people, they
(28:21):
are yes people, right? Theydon't want to disappoint, and
they, to their credit, they theywant to be everyone, everything
for everyone, as much as theycan. I think this is really
commonly seen with moms. I
Chris (28:36):
think I see it a lot with moms, for sure. And I think
that's a good example of whatI'm trying to say is in that
there's a potential to get lost,like, what's your direction?
Yeah,
Morgan (28:48):
on the flip side of that, maybe your absolute
passion is baking and the ideaof this really gets you excited
and energized. And so is thatsomething you want to pour your
energy into and your time. Maybeit
Chris (29:03):
is. And there's another thing too, like when my kids
were young, it was, I remember.
I don't go there anymore becauseit's gotten too expensive, but a
very popular coffee brand, andthey had this lemon pound cake
with like a royal icing. Oh,yes. And the three of us set out
on this mission to recreate thatlemon pound cake. Oh, to make
(29:26):
it, to make it. And we triedmultiple different recipes, and
finally, through trial anderror, we found that one that
was really good and that wasvery close. In fact, it might
have actually been a little bitbetter than the Starbucks one,
which it should have been,because it's not packaged in a
plastic wrapper for howeverlong. Yeah, but baking was an
(29:46):
experience and a connectingpoint, so I could see how the
brownies could be that too,right? It's taking me to our
tradition around making stickybuns every Christmas. It's a
day. Long process, and one ofthe things that's been really
sometimes a challenge, because Ican be a little bit controlling
(30:06):
about the process like I want itto be. I want to make sure
everything's right in theingredients and but what we've
endeavored to do is to make it agroup activity. You just said
Morgan (30:19):
something really interesting that I want to
follow up on, which is thiswhole thing about relinquishing
control. Yeah, okay. Because forme, as we all know, control is
something I try to maintain, andthat is actually something that
takes up a lot of my time,because when I am the one in
control all the time, I am theone that usually wants to be
(30:40):
doing all the things, because Ijust can't let it go. And so
delegating tasks, letting go,letting things get done a
different way, yes, is crucialto me being able to get more of
my own time back and sanity forthat matter, right? Like when I
think about the kids doingchores around the house. Are
(31:02):
they doing the chores the waythat I would do the chores? No.
But first of all, it's good forthem to learn those things, to
how to do them on their own,right? But it's also great for
me to just step back and okay, Ican go do what I need to do and
what I want to do, so I don'thave to be right in the middle
of all the activity, conductingit all the time, there's
Chris (31:23):
a beauty there in you allowing yourself to have some
space to be yourself, and alsoyou allowing within some
structure with kids. Anyway, thekids some space to learn and
explore and honestly, like messthings up a little bit so that
they're learning their ownprocess. Yeah, allowing a little
(31:44):
bit of space for everybody is soimportant. And I think in the
context of time, it's superimportant because that is the
gateway to being able to say,okay, like they're gonna handle
it, I don't need to. And I thinkthis is a particular thing with
moms. It is a thing for dadstoo. It just maybe looks
(32:04):
different. I don't need to bethe hero here or the martyr.
Yeah,
Morgan (32:08):
as you were saying that so much of what was coming up to
me is there's this whole imageof just letting go, instead of
trying to hold on to time andgrab it. How do you get into it?
And maybe the answer is, you letit go. When
Chris (32:22):
you say, let it go, I literally have this little
churning in my stomach like,okay, here we go. We're gonna
let go. Like, it's a visceralfeeling. It's a process. Yeah,
it's such a push pull, lettinggo, like I feel impelled to do
it and like I don't want to atthe same time,
Morgan (32:42):
yeah. And yet, when I imagine myself 100 years from
now, on my deathbed,
Chris (32:49):
your routines are very effective. Okay, I'm not gonna
live that long. But
Morgan (32:53):
you know, you have this, this idea that you're gonna have
all these sort of like memoriesflash before your eyes before
you go and I feel like the onlyway that I'm going to have that
is if I let go, you don't reallyget those memories to seep into
your core. At least I don'tunless I'm just there, yeah, and
(33:14):
I can't be there if I'm whiteknuckling it the whole time.
Yes. So we've talked aboutcontrol. We talked about routine
and habit building. We talkedabout energy and like, being
mindful about what we pick. Andso that has something to do with
boundaries. We get to choose howwe spend our time. And
Chris (33:32):
the other thing that we talked about is that life phase
shift towards the emptiness, andit feels like this vacuum gets
left. So
Morgan (33:41):
that is one of my biggest fears. I have said to
people before, okay, I'll put itinto this context, but it kind
of applies, no matter what Ithink about. Like we put so much
of our energy, especially asparents, we're constantly
pouring into our kids, and it'seasy to let that sort of become
our identity. Like, I am a mom,you know, and I am a mom. I wear
(34:03):
that very proudly, but I've,I've always been a little bit
hesitant to just fall full forceinto that the way that some
people do, because I'm like,okay, but they leave, you know,
they grow up and they leave, andthen what am I? Because I still
have half my life left,hopefully. I
Chris (34:21):
mean, come on, where's your math? You're gonna live 100
more years. So you're only athird through. We've actually
not named this podcast correctlyfor you. This is the third life
mud, yeah.
Morgan (34:33):
But I have this fear of like, okay, like I look at my
husband and I go, Well, who areyou and who am I? You know that
that empty nest thing has alwaysbeen a little bit on my radar,
which I think helps me keep holdof me a little bit. But I'm I'm
curious what other people'sexperience with it are. You're
sort of experimenting with it.
I'm sure there are people outthere that have they're full
(34:55):
blown into it. I want to knowmore about that. Yeah.
Chris (35:00):
Yeah, you know, I kind of have my foot in both worlds a
little bit, but I would sayright now, it's a bit more in
the empty nest world, yeah.
Morgan (35:08):
So what's this vacuum that you're talking like, what
does that what challenges doesthat bring up? Well, just
Chris (35:14):
logistically, like all those things that were crammed
in, like, we got to go here, andwe got to do this, and we got to
make sure that, you know, themeal is prepared by 5pm and
we're cleaned up by 530 and thegrind, it's just gone. And then,
from like, more of a socialaspect, all of those things that
you were doing in parallel withother people that had kids are
(35:37):
either not there or it's vastlyless than it was. And so it's
socially different too, andthere's a lot more time at
least. What happens for me isthat question, like, all the
existential stuff, like, what'sthe point? Why am I here? Who am
I? Like? It starts, Oh,
Unknown (35:55):
you mean, starts, like, screaming
Chris (35:57):
at you. Yeah,
Morgan (35:58):
you mean the scary questions, yeah, all the things
that we typically put into thebackground come to the
forefront.
Chris (36:06):
It's interesting, because I don't know how intentional
that is, a lot of times it justwhen things are really busy, you
just not,
Unknown (36:14):
you don't have the the bandwidth, yeah, it gets pushed
in the back,
Chris (36:18):
and then all of a sudden, you look at things and you're
like, Okay, well, I've beenworking for that painting for my
entire life, but now, like, what
Morgan (36:27):
for me that feels a little overwhelming or scary or,
well, it
Chris (36:31):
can, but there is another side to it, and that's the it
can be exciting. There'sopportunity, but it doesn't
always feel good in thebeginning, being
Morgan (36:40):
able to look at that as an opportunity or something
exciting is going to lend itselfto sort of building what you
want for that second phase,right? And being intentional
about how you want to spend yourtime in that second phase. And
by the way, like we haven'treally brought up this whole
concept that time is notpromised to us, right? Like,
(37:03):
there's that too. It's reallynot ours.
Chris (37:05):
There's that and that right? There just hearkens the
importance of We hear it all thetime, and it's easy to just be
like, come on, already, with theone day at a time, and yeah, but
it's so fucking true. And thatdoesn't mean we can just say,
Well, yeah, the world's endingtomorrow. So I'm, I'm just
spending all my money today, andI'm, I'm not doing anything I'm
(37:27):
supposed to do, like, No, that'sno, that's not the thing. So
what's the recap? What are themicronutrients that are with us
on time?
Morgan (37:37):
The big one, I think, that came to light for me, is
the letting go thing, reallyletting go and not trying to
control time, because can't dothat either, is going to help me
be more present in it, insteadof chasing it and continuing to
protect my energy and reallyfront loading my day with
energizing activities. You know,I really it's important to me to
(38:00):
get up and exercise and take awalk and be outside a little
bit. I like to start my day thatway, because I feel I feel
ready, and also being able tosay no to stuff. For sure, my
time is really important to me.
And so I think really takingstock of the value of your time
and protecting that too, you getto choose, oh and also do the
(38:22):
thing you don't want to dofirst. Oh, yeah, after you've
done the energizing things,because otherwise I go into
procrastination land, and thennone of the things on the list
get done. What about you? Well,that
Chris (38:33):
feeds into one of mine, which is limit procrastination,
because procrastination is justa time sucker, really, for me,
and the other big one is justaround being really conscious of
how I'm invested in my time,what I'm committed to, and
remembering there's always roomto be flexible to some degree,
(38:56):
not everything can be changed,and there are certain things
that Need to be prioritized, butwe do have some power in that.
And I think it's easy to forgetbecause we get on the treadmill
and we get the blinders on andwe're just headed to the
destination. That's my bigtakeaway from this, and embedded
in that, I love the talk aboutenergy and self care. And you
(39:17):
know, by the way, just as aquick side note, some of the
things that are energizing forme are also things that I don't
really particularly want to dowhen I set out to do them.
Exercise is one of those. Like,yeah, we get up and go, God, I
want to just go put myself inpain, and I want to, like, pant
all over the place and getsweaty. Like, no, I don't
(39:39):
particularly love that, but Ilove how I feel when I'm
consistently doing that, and theenergy that it gives me
Morgan (39:46):
later. Yeah, it's a little bit of that. Putting
something in the bank for later.
You're honoring your futureself. And
Chris (39:52):
this is sort of a Rando pop culture reference from a
long time ago, but I rememberhearing some interview with
George. Clooney, like, 10 or 15years ago, and he has been, you
know, really committed to hisphysical fitness. And he was
talking about that, and he said,You know, I just want to be able
to do what I want to do. Like ifI want to go out and do a 10
(40:14):
mile hike and see somethingbeautiful, I want to physically
be able to do that. So stayingfit allows that option. I
Morgan (40:21):
just want to be around and I want to be able to do
stuff. So bottom line for peopleto just consider, I want to
leave them with, ask yourselfwhat you're saying yes to and
what you're saying no to when itcomes to your time, like if you
just pay attention this week, ofthose two questions, What are
you saying yes to? What are yousaying no to and
Chris (40:41):
then assess, does that sound right? Yeah, I feel good
about my answers to
Morgan (40:45):
that. Okay, well, that's enough time talking about time,
all right. Well, I'm all out oftime. We're gonna leave you now,
so we'll see you next time
Chris (40:52):
in the mud. Thanks for being with us in the mud today,
Unknown (41:00):
if you liked this episode, do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgoing to make sure you never
miss an episode, and it's goingto help us grow our muddy
community, which would mean theworld to us. See you
Chris (41:11):
next time in the mud you
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