March 18, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of The Midlife Mud, Morgan dives into her lifelong struggle with perfectionism, control, and the fear of failure—common themes for anyone navigating midlife. She unpacks how early coping mechanisms, like meticulously arranging her Lip Smackers as a kid, set the stage for a relentless pursuit of certainty in adulthood. That drive led her to dentistry, not out of passion but because it felt like a “sure thing.” But when her orthodontic practice failed, she was forced to face a hard truth: perfectionism isn’t a safety net—it’s a trap.
Morgan shares the breaking points that finally made her question everything, from the stress-induced shingles that took her down in 2017 to the life-changing car accident in 2024 that forced her to rethink what really matters. She opens up about her shift from fear-based parenting to connection-focused parenting, the lessons she’s learned through coaching, and how midlife has been both a reckoning and a reset.
If you’ve ever tried to control your way to happiness—only to realize it’s exhausting and unsustainable—this episode is for you. Tune in for an honest, unfiltered conversation about perfectionism, failure, resilience, and what it really takes to let go in midlife.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Morgan (00:01):
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bringthe real shit, all the grit and
pretty much zero clue about howto deal with this crazy phase of
life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and join ourcommunity, and you'll stay up to
date on all the dirt, and, evenbetter, become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait to
Chris (00:29):
see you there. All right, tighten those boots and let's
get muddy. You.
Morgan (00:45):
Hello, hello, hello.
Wait. Did you clap?
Unknown (00:49):
Yes, I clapped.
Morgan (00:51):
We must sync up the audio. Okay. So yeah, welcome
back. Obviously, we'rediscombobulated. And by we, I
mean me.
Unknown (01:00):
I fucking clapped. So I did. It was a very
Morgan (01:03):
weenie clap. And you are wrapped in like, 400 grandma
blankets. So I think you havewax in your ears. I probably do.
I have a problem with thatsometimes. Yeah, me too. It's
probably genetic TMI. I don'tknow you know what I am doing
right now, though, is admiringyour hat well
Chris (01:20):
before we talk about the actual hat that you're admiring,
the hat which you should be,yes, I want to talk about an
evolution that I've made in thelast year. I went from being
literally a non hat person,
Morgan (01:32):
no hat professedly. I know you. You professed it to
me. I'm
Chris (01:36):
not a hat person. You're not. But now, now I've turned
into a hat person. And I don'tknow why. I can only say what
was it? Was it the trip? Ithappened in New Mexico. Yeah,
Morgan (01:46):
it was the trip. Yep, we're talking about the hiking
trip, the Philmont trip.
Chris (01:51):
I went out there with a hat, but I wasn't bonded to it
came back hat
Morgan (01:55):
bonded. Yep, you know what I wish we had done, like,
if I could make it look cool,was the branding thing that they
would do to the hats, yes. Butlike, I had this Adidas workout
hat, and it would have lookedreally stupid on that, yeah, but
on a trucker hat or something,it would have looked really
cool. Yes, it would have lookedcool, yeah, and I would have
worn that, but
Chris (02:13):
it sort of inspired me. I I called you recently and said,
I have a vision. We have to makea hat
Morgan (02:20):
for the podcast, for the podcast, yes.
Chris (02:23):
And then we did it together.
Morgan (02:25):
So we now have just two individual hats of our own. A
fun design project. Yeah. Wedesigned it, yeah. And it says
the mud, and it has our taglineon it, yeah.
Unknown (02:37):
And somebody goes, what is that? Oh, that's my podcast.
They're
Morgan (02:42):
like, this is midlife. I love it. I love it. Nobody has
asked me about mine yet, but Idid have
Chris (02:49):
to sort of tamp down the spark a little
Morgan (02:53):
bit. I mean, yeah, I get it. We're like, the only two
people that really know aboutthis podcast, but we're proud,
damn it. So,
Unknown (03:02):
I mean, I am getting fucking ridiculed at home for
that.
Morgan (03:06):
Oh, you are not alone.
My teenage boys are, like,stunning for me anyway, yeah,
what are we doing today? I'mjust gonna stall All right,
Chris (03:16):
so we left off in a heavy pasture of mud that had some
bright spots where I really hadan opportunity to tell some of
my story. Yeah, and we talked alot about the theme of it is
really a homecoming, atransition from all of the
layers that we put on in life,going back to the core of who we
(03:40):
are and the stories thatcorrelate to that,
Morgan (03:43):
yeah, and how that's sort of quintessential midlife.
Yeah, you know how that's thetime that there's a pull to do
that?
Chris (03:50):
Yes, and I'm incredibly pleased to announce that it's
your turn to do it.
Morgan (03:57):
How about no thanks. And I'm kidding, I
Chris (04:00):
will be your wingman.
Never leave your wingman.
Morgan (04:03):
Never All right, goose, is that me? Is that me? Taking
the floor, then you're on.
You're up, I'm on. Okay? So thisties in some as you know, to
your story, the way that youspoke about it was that sort of
pivotal moment that you maybenot consciously, but looking
back, started to use copingmechanisms to protect yourself,
right? Yes. And then you kind ofwent on your journey, and have
(04:25):
come back around to more of whoyou are. For me, it really was
that same time frame when youwere sent away. So
Chris (04:35):
do you have a year in mind? Was it 1992 is what
Morgan (04:38):
you said. 1992 Yeah. So you know, back to your example
of the airport. And if you havenot listened to Episode Six,
then please go back and listento that first that, like I said,
was a tumultuous time in ourfamily. And gosh, how old would
I have been?
Chris (04:53):
12? I was 15, so you would have been 1111. Okay,
Morgan (04:57):
oh my gosh, I was only a year older than my youngest. Is
right now. That's crazy. That'sstartling. It is. So that's an
important time, right? That sortof pre teen, teen time, yeah,
and I got the message then thatif I was gonna stay safe and
protect myself, I was gonna haveto control perfect and excel at
(05:22):
everything I did, because themessage that I sort of absorbed,
even though it was not said tome explicitly in any way, it is
the story that I created,witnessing what I saw. And that
was that if you don't walk theline, you're out, you're going,
you're not part of the familyanymore, right? Yeah, along with
(05:43):
that, there were some beliefsthat I subscribed to, which were
like, I cannot give anybody areason to criticize me. I have
to be good, you know, yes, and Ihave to be prepared for
anything. I have to be vigilantin all ways. So when you piece
all of that together, that is afucking recipe for disaster. Oh,
(06:06):
yeah, for sure, you cannotmaintain that. So
Chris (06:10):
I'm imagining it still is startling to me an 11 year old,
yeah, which is like six monthsolder than my daughter and and
just to add some visual, youknow, you went to a private
school in town, private dayschool, and remember you used to
wear that little outfit toschool, the uniforms, the
uniform? Oh, hell yeah, Iremember that. That's like,
(06:32):
that's, that's my parting visionof you. So I'm imagining you,
yeah, standing in your uniformthat was, like, navy blue or
something with some like skirtand a white shirt. And I'm
wondering, what did that looklike? Can you give an example of
what being good, perfect, safe,like,
Morgan (06:52):
multitude of things?
Yes, so, and I do have a coupleof examples, but, but what I
what I first want to say, otherthan the fact that this is so
difficult to maintain through alifetime, you sign up to do it
for a short period of time, youmight be able to get away with
it, but at some point you'regonna hit a fucking wall. And
the problem here, for me, likethe metaphor I wanna set up here
(07:15):
for everybody, is this is alsobecause I see this so often with
my clients that I coach likethis is a pervasive issue for
people. So I know there areother people out there that are
in this similar situation. Itcreated a situation where I was
sort of in an instant pot, okay,like that was my life. And
what's sort of insidious aboutthis control perfect Excel
(07:39):
tactic is that you are heavilyrewarded for it in our society,
heavily you get pats on the backall the time. Like this is not a
pro. Why would anybody thinkthis is a problem which only
makes you feel like you have tokeep it up? You know? It
increases that pressure evenmore so to your point, example.
So I used to share a room and abathroom with our younger
(08:05):
sister, and I remember, like oneyear for Christmas, in my
stocking, I got a four pack ofthose Lip Smacker chapsticks,
and they were all differentflavors. So in our bathroom, on
that little ledge that's againstthe wall under the light switch.
You know, yes, we call that thebacksplash or something. Yeah, I
would line up my Lip Smackerchapsticks with a label facing
(08:27):
out equidistant apart. Like Iwould take time. Every time I
use one of them, I would makesure that it went back in the
right spot. Part of that was forjust the illusion of perfection,
right? Part of it was becauseif, if our sister were to use
it, you would know. So it was myattempt at vigilance. That's how
(08:49):
I monitored things. And I lookback on that now and I'm like,
Holy hell, girl, like, calmdown. That's just one little
thing I did at a young age thatwas, like, that sort of control
thing. I also part of that beinggood thing. I always believed in
(09:10):
rules, you know, like, I alwaysfollow the rules, and I I still
do, like, one of my good friendskind of makes fun of me for it.
She's like, Oh, I think theworst thing I have ever done was
sneak into a movie. And it feltlike, oh to me. So again,
attached to that is this beliefthat if you do what you're
(09:35):
supposed to do, quote, unquote,everything's going to be fine.
Yeah, right. It doesn't giveanybody any room to send you
away or ostracize you or punishyou, any of that. And I also, as
a result of that, I think,passed judgment on people that
did break the rules, yeah, likethey're bad, I'm good, you know,
(09:55):
which I think also made ourrelationship really complex.
Six, oh, early on, big time,yeah, because it was a little
bit like, well, he didn't followthe rules. So now that makes
sense, that he's gone and thenlater in life, it was like,
Wait, hold on a second. But we
Chris (10:13):
went through a little bump we did for a few years
where we had to get over that,yeah, I don't know that we ever
really explicitly talked a tonabout that, yeah, but I like the
Lip Smacker example, and I'mhearing a lot of like, internal
monitoring, right? You'remonitoring yourself. Are there
examples of external forces thatreinforce this belief?
Morgan (10:35):
I told myself that story. I mean,
Chris (10:38):
I think your 15 year old brother randomly getting shipped
off across the country that didit good enough. That was
Morgan (10:45):
really that was really scary for me, because I thought,
holy shit, I am also very muchan introverted person. And the
thought of being ripped up frommy comfort zone and sent
somewhere where I didn't knowanyone, away from my family,
away from my friends, feltabsolutely terrifying, yeah? So
yeah. I think it was that. Ithink that had just a really
(11:07):
incredible, huge impact on me,and it followed me. When I got
into dental school, I was whatthey call a gunner. You
Chris (11:15):
say that term was such affection? Yeah? Yeah. Everybody
loves
Morgan (11:19):
a gunner. Anybody who's been in professional, at least
professional school. I don'tknow if it's a term that's used
other places, but at least inprofessional school, the term
gunner means that you are thatperson who will almost gun other
people down to get the bestgrade possible, right? I didn't
ever see it as myself. I wasnever trying to put anyone else
(11:42):
down, but I was very hyperfocused on doing extremely well,
and there was so much underneaththat it also means I was not
very well liked. Nobody reallywants to be around those people.
Most people kind of look at youwith either disdain or jealousy,
whatever it is. They don't likeyou. I'm in my 20s, like I'm a
grown ass woman. Who's I wasmarried by this point? Well,
Chris (12:04):
we're technically not really grown until now.
Morgan (12:07):
I thought it was when the frontal lobe thing, well,
there's
Chris (12:10):
actually neuroscience that suggests 25 right? And I've
heard different things aboutthis. I've heard that it's a
little bit sooner for girls thanit is for Yeah, guys, I don't
know, but still, but early 20sis still not fully caught,
Morgan (12:25):
but it's still old enough to understand that, yeah,
you don't need to go to youroral surgery professor and argue
a one point test question withhim. I did that. Wow.
Chris (12:37):
What drove that? Like?
What if you got that point? Whatwas gonna happen, I
Morgan (12:41):
imagine, I can't remember exactly, but I imagine
it was the difference between megetting an A or a B in the
class, which would impact myclass rank, which would impact
my ego and my potential abilityto get into a specialty program.
I mean, I've just very, veryfocused, and so I carried that
in through what specialty Ichose, like I chose
(13:05):
orthodontics, perfectionisticgalore. Yeah, okay, we're
talking about straighteningteeth millimeters at a time into
exactly the right I mean, and iteven in my career as an
orthodontist, it has shot me inthe foot many times, because
sometimes in the past, I'm a lotbetter about it now, but I would
(13:26):
hold patients hostage because Iwas like, Oh, that incisor is a
little bit off. You know, theydon't fucking care. They don't
even notice it, but I notice it,and by golly, I'm not going to
have one of my patients walkingaround with that. So the bottom
line to all of that is thatthere was always this really
quiet intensity and innerturmoil in me. And it really did
(13:51):
separate me from people. Youknow, there was a disconnect
between me and other people. Forthat reason, it also made me so
focused on the goal, very goaloriented, very driven. Again,
all great things in our society,and it took me far. But damn it,
disconnection, anxiety, all ofmy self worth was tied to my
(14:13):
achievements. And guess what,even when I achieved the things
that boost in self worth wouldonly last for like a microsecond
before it was now, I got to dothis, you know? Then you
Chris (14:23):
noticed the insider was cooking, right?
Morgan (14:26):
Gotta fix that inside.
So when you
Chris (14:28):
walked in as a freshman in dental school, did you have
like, the next blah, blah, blahyears mapped
Morgan (14:35):
out? No, okay, because here's the thing, I never really
wanted to do
Chris (14:38):
dentistry. Wait, I thought you were super
passionate about Dennis, right?
Gave that five,
Morgan (14:43):
didn't I? No, I really think it was a sure thing. You
know, our mom worked at thedental school as the clinical
Dean. That's a loaded issue.
Yeah, I had a summer job therein college in the admissions
office, so I was exposed to it,even though I wasn't. At that
time, my college track wasn'ttaking me in that direction. And
then I started dating myhusband, who I met there, and he
(15:04):
is a dentist. And so it sort offelt like, well, okay, everybody
else is doing it. And also it's,it's perfect for someone like me
that's a perfectionist anddetail oriented. And it's, it's
challenging, and it sayssomething about who I am if I
can accomplish this, right? Sothat's all I knew. It's just,
I'm gonna do the best of thebest and then pick the most
(15:26):
competitive specialty that youknow. It was just, it was a
proving myself thing, like, did
Chris (15:34):
you have an idea of what you were proving? Who knows? Who
knows?
Morgan (15:38):
Just that I could do it and that I was good enough,
really. And kind of to yourpoint, when you were talking
about your story, all of thisreally kept me from even
entertaining the idea ofexploring whatever the hell it
is I'm actually meant to bedoing here with this life,
because it ain't straighteningteeth. You know, it's not. I'm
(15:59):
going to do that. I've beendoing that, but that is not the
reason that I'm here. And then,of course, the pressure just
continued to build to the pointwhere it wasn't sustainable. And
so I had various tipping points.
I am 43 right now. I'd probablysay the last 12 to 15 years have
have had these tipping points.
(16:21):
And so the first one, and I willsay each one, kind of released a
little bit of the pressure inthat pressure pot. But not, not
like a full blown release, youknow, it's just like a little
whoop. And then close it backup. The first one was in 2014
when I had to sell my orthopractice. I remember visiting
(16:42):
you there, yeah, and I put a lotof I knew. I knew my senior year
of dental school, when we did apractice management course, and
I knew when I graduated from myorthodontic residency, I had no
interest, none whatsoever, inowning my own dental practice,
and yet, I opened my own dentalpractice. Tell me why the fuck
that makes sense, yeah, whatdrove you in that moment there
(17:05):
was, again, probably some ofthat got to prove myself. I also
didn't want to. I don't know. Ididn't want to. I didn't want to
feel like a sellout. Yeah, atthe time, a lot of people that I
knew were going and working asassociates in big corporate
companies, and I, I just didn'twant to do that. I thought that
would be selling out, but what Idid made zero sense, so I opened
(17:26):
up this ortho practice, and Ihad this practice for four
years.
Chris (17:30):
I mean, that thing was like an Apple store.
Morgan (17:34):
What I did is I didn't skimp on expenses, and it was a
nightmare. It was a nightmare.
Every month I would have to textmy husband to say, okay, in
order to cover my bills at thepractice this month, I need
$10,000 and so he would float me$10,000 from his practice. And
the dynamic that that set up inour marriage felt really gross
(17:57):
to me. I mean, he was sogenerous and so caring, and he
did not make a thing of it. Imade a thing of it. It's like,
oh my god, again. Hyperindependence is also a problem
of mine. So, no, I've neverobserved that. So I saw, I mean,
I was fortunate enough to havethe opportunity to sell the
practice and sort of get outfrom underneath the debt, which
(18:19):
I should have seen as a totaltriumph, but I didn't. At first,
I felt like it was just an utterfailure. Like, oh, I set out to
do this thing, and it didn'twork. I wasn't good at it. And
what's funny looking back now islike, Why the hell did I do this
when I knew I didn't want to doit, I knew way deep down, what
are you doing? And why was I soupset over failing at something
(18:43):
I never wanted to do in thefirst place? Right? It doesn't
make sense. And yet, I think itwas really linked to that
perfectionism thing. And thatwas probably the first time I
really understood, okay, this,this perfectionism thing is,
it's a myth. You know, I reallycan't be great at everything,
and this didn't kill me, like, Iquote, unquote, failed at having
(19:05):
my own practice. And I'm notdead. In fact, I'm relieved that
I'm out from under it. So thatwas the first sort of tipping
point for me.
Chris (19:15):
So you went in to that wanting to kind of, or at least,
what I heard you say, is provethat you could do it right a
private practice, and then youcame out of that. And there was
obviously some failure involved.
But what tipped like, if youcould drill it down, like to a
thing, what was different aboutyour mindset, walking away from
that, versus walking into it?
Morgan (19:37):
Well, I think it was the the fact that I didn't succeed
at it, and it did not kill me,right? There was the
acknowledgement that it wasokay.
Chris (19:46):
So where was that perfectionistic element for you
at that moment in the postpractice? Yeah,
Morgan (19:53):
it wasn't gone. I mean, I'm still fighting with it, to
be 100% honest. It's part of mystory. It's part of who I am.
Yeah. Yeah. The difference isthat that was like the first
chink in the armor where it waslike, this is not helping you.
You know what? I mean, yeah. Andit was a very, very small, very
soft voice. And I didn't justembrace that and run and totally
(20:16):
morph into this different personfrom that moment on. It was just
a little acknowledgement of,Hey, didn't kill you. Hey,
you're okay. But then I went onwith life. Yeah,
Chris (20:25):
I recall a lot of turmoil about that, yeah, where you felt
really relieved, and then youwere like, oh my god, I'm a
failure. I was embarrassed.
Morgan (20:34):
It was to the point where even if I went to
professional conferences, dentalconferences, I avoided them
because I didn't or, you know,reunions with my residency
mates, I didn't want to have tosay, Yeah, I couldn't hack it.
Like it just really felt likeshit. I can
Chris (20:50):
relate to that so much.
Yeah, maybe not exactly what theperfectionistic thing? Yeah,
although someone did call meanal today, which is progress
for me. But that, that idea of,oh my god, like people are gonna
look at me as having failed, andI'm gonna avoid situations. Yes,
Morgan (21:07):
and what it really was, was me. It was me. I don't know
what the who the care like, whocares? What they said, what they
thought likely that they reallydidn't care enough to think
anything about it. But movinginto 2017 2017 let's set the
stage. This was January 2017 soI'm not getting political, but
it was, it was literally on theday of the inauguration of
(21:31):
Donald Trump. Yeah. So that timewas a time of a lot of
divisiveness, a lot of stress inour country in particular. And
you know, I certainly wasn'timmune to that. And then you add
on all the other stress I wasputting on myself just from
operating the way that I was.
There was a ton of uncertaintyand just toxicity and negativity
(21:51):
going around. And I gotshingles. I was 35 shingles is
not something I recommend toanybody. I had a really, a
really, really severe case. Iremember I was eating lunch in
my car, Chick fil A, of allthings, and I was talking to one
of my friends. She was coming tome to fix every problem in her
(22:13):
life, and I was taking thatrole. It was so unhealthy. We
have since come a long way. ButI was listening to her talk
about her life and her problems.
I was eating Chick fil A in mycar. This was during a work day,
and I had this headache that waslike lightning going through my
(22:33):
neck and into the front rightpart of my head, just on the one
side. And I was like, this isweird. So I remember I tried to
book a massage. I was like,Maybe I just like, have a crick
in my neck or something. And bythe next day, I woke up and I
had these really light red markson my forehead. And I was like,
(22:54):
so I texted our dad, who is aphysician, by the way, it's just
awesome to have a dad that's aphysician, it
Chris (23:00):
is, but there are some dark sides to it. Like, once you
get him going and you turn onthat program, it's never coming
off,
Morgan (23:08):
then you're about to die. Yeah, he's a little bit of
a hyper contract. But I sent himthe picture, and I was like, Is
this anything? Well, shingles isin my differential. I'm like,
what the shingles people over 65get shingles? So I went to
urgent care because it gotreally, really bad. And sure
enough, by then, the vesicularstuff started breaking up. It
got into my eye. Had tobasically stay in the dark for a
(23:30):
couple of months. I couldn'tdrive, I couldn't do anything
that required me to be in thelight, right? Not Weeks, months.
Yeah, I mean, it really was liketwo months. And bless my I mean,
Matt just took the wheel. We,you know, we, we had four kids,
and our youngest was three. Atthat time, she didn't understand
why I was bedridden. And I tellthis story because the story
(23:54):
that I have attached to this,whether it's true or not, it was
clear to me in that moment thatI wasn't the way I was living my
life. I couldn't do it that wayanymore. I wasn't taking care of
myself physically, I wasn'ttaking my care of myself
emotionally, the level of stressthat I was putting myself under.
And I say it that way becausethat's exactly what I was doing.
(24:15):
I was putting myself under thatstress. I needed to do it
differently. And I God, Iremember pleading I couldn't
sleep at night. A lot of thetime I was up in the middle of
the night. I remember justpleading with God, please, I
will do anything. I will do itright this time, please, just
(24:36):
let me get over this. Not that Iwas suicidal, but I had a little
bit of an understanding of beingin so much pain that you would
want to be gone, and that reallyscared me, because I had these
four kids, I have this beautifullife, and here I was in such
pain, and I say it because I hadset myself up in a way. Me that
(25:00):
I was suffering and it didn'thave to be that way. Yeah, the
little exclamation point on thatwas, you know, I did finally
heal from that, thank God. Butthen 2020, comes along in the
pandemic, and it's like, oh,yeah, you're not in control,
bitch. I think from all of that,it was okay. The only thing I'm
in control of is myself. Yeah,that's it, and I am the one that
(25:21):
chose to live the way that I wasliving, and I didn't have to do
that anymore. So more of thatpressure was let out a little
bit again, not not completely. I
Chris (25:31):
am curious, because I know that one of the things that
you found amidst these littlemoments is coaching. When did
you find
Morgan (25:39):
that it was in 2020 that I found coaching. And there was,
I was so convinced I'm like,this, this is what I'm supposed
to do. It was so clear to me,and it still is, I'm like, this
is the thing. Why? Some of it, Ithink, has to do with
understanding what I havelearned through this experience
(26:03):
of my life that it was a choice.
I think a lot of people don'tsee that, and the second I
recognize that, hey, this is achoice and I can do it
differently, that's when thingsreally started to shift for me.
And I want other people to dothat. You know, I, I really want
other people to connect with whothey really are and what they're
(26:23):
really meant to be doing. It's apay it forward thing. I think,
yeah. And, you know, now we cometo 2024, where I've got three
teenagers, three teenage boys,two of which are doing what
they're supposed to be doing asteenagers, meaning that they are
really testing the boundariesand leaning into their
increasing independence, yeah,but it got really scary, and I
(26:48):
won't say a lot in terms ofdetails, because I want to
respect their privacy, but forme as a parent, there were some
things that they were involvedin that were not safe, we're not
healthy, and back to this cyclicnature that you and I talked
about last time I was so likewounded from what happened with
(27:09):
you when you were a teenager,that I was so terrified they
were going to go down sort of asimilar path, while also
understanding from a parentperspective, that I really
didn't want to make them feelabandoned in any way, so I was
constantly juggling this, like,how do I guide them in a in the
(27:32):
right way, but also have theirback? Yeah, you know, I didn't
want to be like a punitiveparent or a parent that didn't
know like what to do. You know
Chris (27:45):
no parent knows what to do. I know they don't, and
there's no book about
Morgan (27:50):
it. And each kid is different. It's different too,
yeah, but it took me some work.
It took me being coached some aswell. Where did
Chris (27:58):
perfectionism live in that process of trying to figure
out how to maintain a connectionwith your boys,
Morgan (28:04):
it got in the way of it, right, right? Well, some of my
reaction was so fear based.
Yeah, I just really didn't wantthem to get hurt. Yeah, it was
less about image. I mean,there's always that. There is a
little bit of like, oh, people,people know what's going on, and
people are talking, you know,that doesn't always feel great,
yeah, but for me, it was morefear about if I don't get it
(28:26):
right there, something will goreally wrong. It wasn't so much
about me as much as it was. I'mjust really scared they're gonna
get hurt or hurt someone else,for that matter. And so we had a
really, a really rough year,year and a half, I would say it
was hell, but through, throughbeing coached, and through a lot
(28:48):
of trial and error, getting itwrong, sometimes getting it
right, and then getting slappedin the face with the next thing,
yeah, is a very dynamicsituation, I came to the
understanding that the absolutemost important thing above all
else was just being connected tothem. And I think part of what
(29:10):
really brought that home for methis past August, my husband and
I were on our way with our justturned 15 year old. Oh,
Chris (29:25):
there's
Morgan (29:26):
there's that age again.
I know isn't that crazy, blessbut one of our traditions, once
the kids become teenagers, fortheir birthday, Matt and I take
them out to dinner, to whereverthey want to go. Some are
usually somewhere really nice,and so that's what we were
doing. We were celebrating. Thisis my second son, his birthday.
We were taking him to dinner. Itwas a beautiful Sunday, late
afternoon, early evening, thesun was shining. I mean, it was
(29:51):
a gorgeous day, and we'redriving along in my Tahoe, Matt
was driving, and we got intothis scary. As hell. Car
accident was not our fault, butour car completely flipped over
and spun around and skidded halfa block on its roof, yeah. And I
mean, we were all okay, which isa miracle, but I really did see
(30:16):
it in slow motion, and it feltlike, it felt like we were
skating along for like 30minutes. And my thought was,
what the hell are we going tohit or this is how I die? There
was just such a back to midlife,calling you and saying you're
halfway to dead. I felt likeyou're going to die. Now, is
this? Is this what you want?
(30:38):
Have you done what you want todo? Because you're dead now,
damn it, that's a wake up call.
Yeah. And so after I went Ifound out about myself that when
I go into shock, I'm real goodunder pressure. I was like, We
need to get out of the carbefore it blows up. There was
some guy that was had seen theaccident, and he's like, Is
everybody okay? I mean, course,all of our air airbags had
(30:59):
deployed. We could not seeanything. We're hanging upside
down, right? And there's like,this dust and smoke. And I'm
like, oh my god, the car's gonnaexplode. So he's like, Is
everybody okay? How many are inthere? Matt was kind of like,
uh, we're okay. We're if I saidthere's three of us, we need to
get out of this car. Yeah. It'sjust very like, barking orders,
(31:20):
you know, and like, the emotiondidn't hit me until we got out
and we were standing there onthe side of the street, and I
saw my son standing there, andoh my god, like I grabbed him
and just squeezed him as tightas I could and sobbed, which I
think scared the shit out ofhim, because he had never seen
(31:40):
me cry like that. Yeah, that waswhen I was just like, it could
it could just be gone. You know,it could all be gone. And these
humans that I'm raising are,they're coming into adulthood,
and they have choices that theyare gonna make, and I may not
agree with them, yeah, I canguide them, but I can only guide
(32:01):
them if I'm really connected tothem and if I'm willing to
accept whatever decision theymake, you know? So the takeaway
there was really that I can behyper vigilant, I can control,
yeah, I can perfect. I can excelall I want to, and then I'm
dead. What's the point? And sowhere I am today, I'm still in
(32:22):
the pot. You know, this is stillan evolving process, but I think
the lid is actually thepressure's out, and the lid is
kind of cracked open. I feellike I have really let go of the
hustle, yeah? And I know it,because I just feel so much more
relaxed, like, for instance,over the ski trip, we were
(32:43):
snowed in, and we were supposedto get up at like 430 in the
morning and take a two wheeldrive, 12 passenger van down a
mountain in 40 mile per hourwinds in the dark, negative teen
wind chill on snow covered roadsto drive for three hours and go
to the airport. And I just wokeup, and I was like, No, we're
(33:04):
not gonna do that. And it wasokay. We I knew we would figure
something out. Yeah, I think oldme control freak me would have
been like, what do we do? Weneed to figure this out, you
know? And instead, I was able tobe present. I was there. I we
had an extra day. It was moretime. It was a lovely day.
Chris (33:25):
So there was a beautiful moment in that last day. That
was what I'm gonna call theextra day, yeah, the day, bonus
day. You said, Yeah, we're notgonna do that. And you rented
real genius, yeah, because wehad just talked about it. And
you said, We're gonna sit downand watch this movie together. I
thought that your husband mightjump out the window, but he but,
(33:47):
but we all did it, and, youknow, it was a shared
experience. And I looked at thatas such a bonus, yeah, and I
think, you know, more and more,there's just so much beauty in
being able to let go of an ideaor a plan that you had so that
you can be present for what'sactually happening and unfolding
instead, yeah,
Morgan (34:08):
absolutely being able to relax into just being where you
are. Yes, there's so much there.
It's right in front of yourfucking face, every
Chris (34:20):
day, every day, every day, yeah, even on the bad days,
right?
Morgan (34:24):
And so I think that is where I am. You know, I have
learned that, not just that,I've learned I'm actually I'm
practicing that idea of justbeing where I am and being
connected. And I really do thinkthat I found my my calling, my
purpose, the reason that I'mhere, yeah, and what's
interesting about that callingis that it applies in every area
(34:47):
of my life. It's not just like acareer. It is something that is
infused into my relationshipswith every person in my life. It
shows up in my coaching work. Itshows up in this podcast. Yes,
and it just feels so good toknow that I have come back to
who I really am and what I'mreally meant to be doing, what
(35:11):
I'm really meant to be givingand offering, whether people
take it or not, I'm putting itout there, and I was not doing
that before, yeah, because I wastoo scared. It was too scary. It
felt too unsafe. I have been
Chris (35:23):
honored to watch you, and it's just been a joy approach
parenting and really trying tofigure out that balance of
establishing a connection,allowing for some independence,
letting go of some control,yeah, with your kids. And even
though I really have been on theperiphery of that, there's an
(35:47):
aspect of it that has just beenso fucking healing, given where
we came from, and to watch youstand up and really push to
change that mold, has, it's justbeen a joy to watch. Really has
Morgan (36:02):
Well, thank you. You have been instrumental. You and
I have had many talks
Chris (36:08):
about this stuff. Never leave your wing, man.
Morgan (36:13):
But I think it's interesting, and this kind of
brings us into themicronutrient. I want to tie
together our stories here, yeah.
And I told you this before, whatI notice when I look at our
stories is we start asourselves, and then because of
this one event that thatimpacted both of us in different
ways, we went these differentroutes, like almost opposite
(36:33):
ways. Yeah. And on the outside,people might have looked at me
and been like, well, Damn, she'skilling it like no problem
there. And they might havelooked at you and been like, Oh,
he's really struggling with thedivorce and the this and
whatever. And yet, what wasreally true is there was
suffering happening regardless,because both of us were armored
(36:56):
up in different ways to staysafe, to protect ourselves,
Chris (37:01):
yeah, I was thinking of this analogy of, like, you
really had that story of beingthe athlete with the perfect
record, and I was the athletethat had a hell of a lot of
potential, but my record waskind of shaky, yeah, right, and
so I was afraid that I wouldnever be able to climb out of
(37:22):
that, and you were afraid oflosing your title, yeah? So
there's like, the consistency offear across both absolutely and
the thing that is sointeresting, you and I are very
different people in a lot ofways, but there are some core
ingredients, hashtag, fuckinggrit, yeah. That show up for
(37:42):
both of us, yeah and yeah. Thatmaybe translated on the surface,
looking a little bit different,but Jesus, we both really worked
hard, yeah, to try to producesomething Yeah,
Morgan (37:54):
and I it's crazy that we're both in this place. Within
the last six months to a year,this has been the culmination,
yeah, all of that kind ofcoming, coming off, like,
putting all of that crap down,yes. And so was born the
podcast.
Chris (38:10):
And I kind of feel in some ways, like we're back in
the suburban again. I know,yeah, I'm still waiting for you
to put paper towels in your I
Morgan (38:19):
have some right here, like you used to do, no, it was
my nostrils and my ears. Like
Chris (38:24):
back to that core aspect, yeah, of us and who we are
individually and who we areinteracting. Yeah.
Morgan (38:32):
And I know this story, our stories, I would venture to
say, a hell of a lot of peopleout there in this age group, and
not in this age group for thatmatter. Yeah, it's not unique,
yeah, you know. But
Chris (38:44):
it's also, it's like, this being on top of the ski run
where you're like, god damn it,I have to go down that to get
lunch. Do you want lunch or not?
I don't want to do that. I'm nothungry, you know. And for you,
is a blue run. And for me, I hadthe exact same experience and
the wilderness of Canada justscary.
Morgan (39:04):
It's it is scary. It's scary to put all that shit down,
right? But ultimately, I thinkthe quintessential midlife
experience is that the shit getstoo heavy. It's not working
anymore. In fact, it's workingagainst you, and you hit some
kind of wall where youunderstand that, and you're
called to come home, yeah. And Iwould love to know, for those
(39:24):
who are listening, have you beencalled
Chris (39:26):
at this stage, and are you answering that call exactly
and how? Yeah. Andfundamentally, it's a
fascinating thing, because Ifeel this evolution in me, this
return to myself. But you know,a lot of it's looking back over
my shoulder in the last sixmonths and like realizing how I
feel inside, day to day now, ascompared to how I felt inside,
(39:50):
like a year ago. And I don'tknow that there's always like
this, crash, bang, lightningthing that happens. No,
Morgan (39:58):
it's just, I would say it's probably not. Like that
most of the time, it's just
Chris (40:02):
back to the values thing, yeah. And you didn't explicitly
talk about values tonight, butit absolutely connection was
there. You didn't call themthat, but you talked about Yeah.
And you talked about them in theway that you approach being a
parent,
Morgan (40:14):
yeah. So there you go.
That's, uh, that's a little bitabout my journey. Any other take
home, points, invitations,jokes,
Chris (40:26):
haikus. I don't even know what a haiku is.
Morgan (40:31):
I would have to look it up. I kind of know there's
something about syllables. Ooh,I thought you were gonna bust it
out. You had this. I'm notperfect, damn it. I don't know
everything. I
Unknown (40:41):
just wanted to prove it.
Chris (40:45):
Now we can end the show
Morgan (40:47):
all right, and with that, we will see you next time
Unknown (40:51):
in the mud.
Chris (40:59):
Thanks for being with us in the mud today.
Morgan (41:02):
If you liked this episode, do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgonna make sure you never miss
an episode, and it's gonna helpus grow our muddy community,
which would mean the world tous. See you next
Chris (41:12):
time in the mud you
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bringthe real shit, all the grit and
pretty much zero clue about howto deal with this crazy phase of
life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and join ourcommunity, and you'll stay up to
date on all the dirt, and, evenbetter, become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait to
Chris (00:29):
see you there. All right, tighten those boots and let's
get muddy. You.
Morgan (00:45):
Hello, hello, hello.
Wait. Did you clap?
Unknown (00:49):
Yes, I clapped.
Morgan (00:51):
We must sync up the audio. Okay. So yeah, welcome
back. Obviously, we'rediscombobulated. And by we, I
mean me.
Unknown (01:00):
I fucking clapped. So I did. It was a very
Morgan (01:03):
weenie clap. And you are wrapped in like, 400 grandma
blankets. So I think you havewax in your ears. I probably do.
I have a problem with thatsometimes. Yeah, me too. It's
probably genetic TMI. I don'tknow you know what I am doing
right now, though, is admiringyour hat well
Chris (01:20):
before we talk about the actual hat that you're admiring,
the hat which you should be,yes, I want to talk about an
evolution that I've made in thelast year. I went from being
literally a non hat person,
Morgan (01:32):
no hat professedly. I know you. You professed it to
me. I'm
Chris (01:36):
not a hat person. You're not. But now, now I've turned
into a hat person. And I don'tknow why. I can only say what
was it? Was it the trip? Ithappened in New Mexico. Yeah,
Morgan (01:46):
it was the trip. Yep, we're talking about the hiking
trip, the Philmont trip.
Chris (01:51):
I went out there with a hat, but I wasn't bonded to it
came back hat
Morgan (01:55):
bonded. Yep, you know what I wish we had done, like,
if I could make it look cool,was the branding thing that they
would do to the hats, yes. Butlike, I had this Adidas workout
hat, and it would have lookedreally stupid on that, yeah, but
on a trucker hat or something,it would have looked really
cool. Yes, it would have lookedcool, yeah, and I would have
worn that, but
Chris (02:13):
it sort of inspired me. I I called you recently and said,
I have a vision. We have to makea hat
Morgan (02:20):
for the podcast, for the podcast, yes.
Chris (02:23):
And then we did it together.
Morgan (02:25):
So we now have just two individual hats of our own. A
fun design project. Yeah. Wedesigned it, yeah. And it says
the mud, and it has our taglineon it, yeah.
Unknown (02:37):
And somebody goes, what is that? Oh, that's my podcast.
They're
Morgan (02:42):
like, this is midlife. I love it. I love it. Nobody has
asked me about mine yet, but Idid have
Chris (02:49):
to sort of tamp down the spark a little
Morgan (02:53):
bit. I mean, yeah, I get it. We're like, the only two
people that really know aboutthis podcast, but we're proud,
damn it. So,
Unknown (03:02):
I mean, I am getting fucking ridiculed at home for
that.
Morgan (03:06):
Oh, you are not alone.
My teenage boys are, like,stunning for me anyway, yeah,
what are we doing today? I'mjust gonna stall All right,
Chris (03:16):
so we left off in a heavy pasture of mud that had some
bright spots where I really hadan opportunity to tell some of
my story. Yeah, and we talked alot about the theme of it is
really a homecoming, atransition from all of the
layers that we put on in life,going back to the core of who we
(03:40):
are and the stories thatcorrelate to that,
Morgan (03:43):
yeah, and how that's sort of quintessential midlife.
Yeah, you know how that's thetime that there's a pull to do
that?
Chris (03:50):
Yes, and I'm incredibly pleased to announce that it's
your turn to do it.
Morgan (03:57):
How about no thanks. And I'm kidding, I
Chris (04:00):
will be your wingman.
Never leave your wingman.
Morgan (04:03):
Never All right, goose, is that me? Is that me? Taking
the floor, then you're on.
You're up, I'm on. Okay? So thisties in some as you know, to
your story, the way that youspoke about it was that sort of
pivotal moment that you maybenot consciously, but looking
back, started to use copingmechanisms to protect yourself,
right? Yes. And then you kind ofwent on your journey, and have
(04:25):
come back around to more of whoyou are. For me, it really was
that same time frame when youwere sent away. So
Chris (04:35):
do you have a year in mind? Was it 1992 is what
Morgan (04:38):
you said. 1992 Yeah. So you know, back to your example
of the airport. And if you havenot listened to Episode Six,
then please go back and listento that first that, like I said,
was a tumultuous time in ourfamily. And gosh, how old would
I have been?
Chris (04:53):
12? I was 15, so you would have been 1111. Okay,
Morgan (04:57):
oh my gosh, I was only a year older than my youngest. Is
right now. That's crazy. That'sstartling. It is. So that's an
important time, right? That sortof pre teen, teen time, yeah,
and I got the message then thatif I was gonna stay safe and
protect myself, I was gonna haveto control perfect and excel at
(05:22):
everything I did, because themessage that I sort of absorbed,
even though it was not said tome explicitly in any way, it is
the story that I created,witnessing what I saw. And that
was that if you don't walk theline, you're out, you're going,
you're not part of the familyanymore, right? Yeah, along with
(05:43):
that, there were some beliefsthat I subscribed to, which were
like, I cannot give anybody areason to criticize me. I have
to be good, you know, yes, and Ihave to be prepared for
anything. I have to be vigilantin all ways. So when you piece
all of that together, that is afucking recipe for disaster. Oh,
(06:06):
yeah, for sure, you cannotmaintain that. So
Chris (06:10):
I'm imagining it still is startling to me an 11 year old,
yeah, which is like six monthsolder than my daughter and and
just to add some visual, youknow, you went to a private
school in town, private dayschool, and remember you used to
wear that little outfit toschool, the uniforms, the
uniform? Oh, hell yeah, Iremember that. That's like,
(06:32):
that's, that's my parting visionof you. So I'm imagining you,
yeah, standing in your uniformthat was, like, navy blue or
something with some like skirtand a white shirt. And I'm
wondering, what did that looklike? Can you give an example of
what being good, perfect, safe,like,
Morgan (06:52):
multitude of things?
Yes, so, and I do have a coupleof examples, but, but what I
what I first want to say, otherthan the fact that this is so
difficult to maintain through alifetime, you sign up to do it
for a short period of time, youmight be able to get away with
it, but at some point you'regonna hit a fucking wall. And
the problem here, for me, likethe metaphor I wanna set up here
(07:15):
for everybody, is this is alsobecause I see this so often with
my clients that I coach likethis is a pervasive issue for
people. So I know there areother people out there that are
in this similar situation. Itcreated a situation where I was
sort of in an instant pot, okay,like that was my life. And
what's sort of insidious aboutthis control perfect Excel
(07:39):
tactic is that you are heavilyrewarded for it in our society,
heavily you get pats on the backall the time. Like this is not a
pro. Why would anybody thinkthis is a problem which only
makes you feel like you have tokeep it up? You know? It
increases that pressure evenmore so to your point, example.
So I used to share a room and abathroom with our younger
(08:05):
sister, and I remember, like oneyear for Christmas, in my
stocking, I got a four pack ofthose Lip Smacker chapsticks,
and they were all differentflavors. So in our bathroom, on
that little ledge that's againstthe wall under the light switch.
You know, yes, we call that thebacksplash or something. Yeah, I
would line up my Lip Smackerchapsticks with a label facing
(08:27):
out equidistant apart. Like Iwould take time. Every time I
use one of them, I would makesure that it went back in the
right spot. Part of that was forjust the illusion of perfection,
right? Part of it was becauseif, if our sister were to use
it, you would know. So it was myattempt at vigilance. That's how
(08:49):
I monitored things. And I lookback on that now and I'm like,
Holy hell, girl, like, calmdown. That's just one little
thing I did at a young age thatwas, like, that sort of control
thing. I also part of that beinggood thing. I always believed in
(09:10):
rules, you know, like, I alwaysfollow the rules, and I I still
do, like, one of my good friendskind of makes fun of me for it.
She's like, Oh, I think theworst thing I have ever done was
sneak into a movie. And it feltlike, oh to me. So again,
attached to that is this beliefthat if you do what you're
(09:35):
supposed to do, quote, unquote,everything's going to be fine.
Yeah, right. It doesn't giveanybody any room to send you
away or ostracize you or punishyou, any of that. And I also, as
a result of that, I think,passed judgment on people that
did break the rules, yeah, likethey're bad, I'm good, you know,
(09:55):
which I think also made ourrelationship really complex.
Six, oh, early on, big time,yeah, because it was a little
bit like, well, he didn't followthe rules. So now that makes
sense, that he's gone and thenlater in life, it was like,
Wait, hold on a second. But we
Chris (10:13):
went through a little bump we did for a few years
where we had to get over that,yeah, I don't know that we ever
really explicitly talked a tonabout that, yeah, but I like the
Lip Smacker example, and I'mhearing a lot of like, internal
monitoring, right? You'remonitoring yourself. Are there
examples of external forces thatreinforce this belief?
Morgan (10:35):
I told myself that story. I mean,
Chris (10:38):
I think your 15 year old brother randomly getting shipped
off across the country that didit good enough. That was
Morgan (10:45):
really that was really scary for me, because I thought,
holy shit, I am also very muchan introverted person. And the
thought of being ripped up frommy comfort zone and sent
somewhere where I didn't knowanyone, away from my family,
away from my friends, feltabsolutely terrifying, yeah? So
yeah. I think it was that. Ithink that had just a really
(11:07):
incredible, huge impact on me,and it followed me. When I got
into dental school, I was whatthey call a gunner. You
Chris (11:15):
say that term was such affection? Yeah? Yeah. Everybody
loves
Morgan (11:19):
a gunner. Anybody who's been in professional, at least
professional school. I don'tknow if it's a term that's used
other places, but at least inprofessional school, the term
gunner means that you are thatperson who will almost gun other
people down to get the bestgrade possible, right? I didn't
ever see it as myself. I wasnever trying to put anyone else
(11:42):
down, but I was very hyperfocused on doing extremely well,
and there was so much underneaththat it also means I was not
very well liked. Nobody reallywants to be around those people.
Most people kind of look at youwith either disdain or jealousy,
whatever it is. They don't likeyou. I'm in my 20s, like I'm a
grown ass woman. Who's I wasmarried by this point? Well,
Chris (12:04):
we're technically not really grown until now.
Morgan (12:07):
I thought it was when the frontal lobe thing, well,
there's
Chris (12:10):
actually neuroscience that suggests 25 right? And I've
heard different things aboutthis. I've heard that it's a
little bit sooner for girls thanit is for Yeah, guys, I don't
know, but still, but early 20sis still not fully caught,
Morgan (12:25):
but it's still old enough to understand that, yeah,
you don't need to go to youroral surgery professor and argue
a one point test question withhim. I did that. Wow.
Chris (12:37):
What drove that? Like?
What if you got that point? Whatwas gonna happen, I
Morgan (12:41):
imagine, I can't remember exactly, but I imagine
it was the difference between megetting an A or a B in the
class, which would impact myclass rank, which would impact
my ego and my potential abilityto get into a specialty program.
I mean, I've just very, veryfocused, and so I carried that
in through what specialty Ichose, like I chose
(13:05):
orthodontics, perfectionisticgalore. Yeah, okay, we're
talking about straighteningteeth millimeters at a time into
exactly the right I mean, and iteven in my career as an
orthodontist, it has shot me inthe foot many times, because
sometimes in the past, I'm a lotbetter about it now, but I would
(13:26):
hold patients hostage because Iwas like, Oh, that incisor is a
little bit off. You know, theydon't fucking care. They don't
even notice it, but I notice it,and by golly, I'm not going to
have one of my patients walkingaround with that. So the bottom
line to all of that is thatthere was always this really
quiet intensity and innerturmoil in me. And it really did
(13:51):
separate me from people. Youknow, there was a disconnect
between me and other people. Forthat reason, it also made me so
focused on the goal, very goaloriented, very driven. Again,
all great things in our society,and it took me far. But damn it,
disconnection, anxiety, all ofmy self worth was tied to my
(14:13):
achievements. And guess what,even when I achieved the things
that boost in self worth wouldonly last for like a microsecond
before it was now, I got to dothis, you know? Then you
Chris (14:23):
noticed the insider was cooking, right?
Morgan (14:26):
Gotta fix that inside.
So when you
Chris (14:28):
walked in as a freshman in dental school, did you have
like, the next blah, blah, blahyears mapped
Morgan (14:35):
out? No, okay, because here's the thing, I never really
wanted to do
Chris (14:38):
dentistry. Wait, I thought you were super
passionate about Dennis, right?
Gave that five,
Morgan (14:43):
didn't I? No, I really think it was a sure thing. You
know, our mom worked at thedental school as the clinical
Dean. That's a loaded issue.
Yeah, I had a summer job therein college in the admissions
office, so I was exposed to it,even though I wasn't. At that
time, my college track wasn'ttaking me in that direction. And
then I started dating myhusband, who I met there, and he
(15:04):
is a dentist. And so it sort offelt like, well, okay, everybody
else is doing it. And also it's,it's perfect for someone like me
that's a perfectionist anddetail oriented. And it's, it's
challenging, and it sayssomething about who I am if I
can accomplish this, right? Sothat's all I knew. It's just,
I'm gonna do the best of thebest and then pick the most
(15:26):
competitive specialty that youknow. It was just, it was a
proving myself thing, like, did
Chris (15:34):
you have an idea of what you were proving? Who knows? Who
knows?
Morgan (15:38):
Just that I could do it and that I was good enough,
really. And kind of to yourpoint, when you were talking
about your story, all of thisreally kept me from even
entertaining the idea ofexploring whatever the hell it
is I'm actually meant to bedoing here with this life,
because it ain't straighteningteeth. You know, it's not. I'm
(15:59):
going to do that. I've beendoing that, but that is not the
reason that I'm here. And then,of course, the pressure just
continued to build to the pointwhere it wasn't sustainable. And
so I had various tipping points.
I am 43 right now. I'd probablysay the last 12 to 15 years have
have had these tipping points.
(16:21):
And so the first one, and I willsay each one, kind of released a
little bit of the pressure inthat pressure pot. But not, not
like a full blown release, youknow, it's just like a little
whoop. And then close it backup. The first one was in 2014
when I had to sell my orthopractice. I remember visiting
(16:42):
you there, yeah, and I put a lotof I knew. I knew my senior year
of dental school, when we did apractice management course, and
I knew when I graduated from myorthodontic residency, I had no
interest, none whatsoever, inowning my own dental practice,
and yet, I opened my own dentalpractice. Tell me why the fuck
that makes sense, yeah, whatdrove you in that moment there
(17:05):
was, again, probably some ofthat got to prove myself. I also
didn't want to. I don't know. Ididn't want to. I didn't want to
feel like a sellout. Yeah, atthe time, a lot of people that I
knew were going and working asassociates in big corporate
companies, and I, I just didn'twant to do that. I thought that
would be selling out, but what Idid made zero sense, so I opened
(17:26):
up this ortho practice, and Ihad this practice for four
years.
Chris (17:30):
I mean, that thing was like an Apple store.
Morgan (17:34):
What I did is I didn't skimp on expenses, and it was a
nightmare. It was a nightmare.
Every month I would have to textmy husband to say, okay, in
order to cover my bills at thepractice this month, I need
$10,000 and so he would float me$10,000 from his practice. And
the dynamic that that set up inour marriage felt really gross
(17:57):
to me. I mean, he was sogenerous and so caring, and he
did not make a thing of it. Imade a thing of it. It's like,
oh my god, again. Hyperindependence is also a problem
of mine. So, no, I've neverobserved that. So I saw, I mean,
I was fortunate enough to havethe opportunity to sell the
practice and sort of get outfrom underneath the debt, which
(18:19):
I should have seen as a totaltriumph, but I didn't. At first,
I felt like it was just an utterfailure. Like, oh, I set out to
do this thing, and it didn'twork. I wasn't good at it. And
what's funny looking back now islike, Why the hell did I do this
when I knew I didn't want to doit, I knew way deep down, what
are you doing? And why was I soupset over failing at something
(18:43):
I never wanted to do in thefirst place? Right? It doesn't
make sense. And yet, I think itwas really linked to that
perfectionism thing. And thatwas probably the first time I
really understood, okay, this,this perfectionism thing is,
it's a myth. You know, I reallycan't be great at everything,
and this didn't kill me, like, Iquote, unquote, failed at having
(19:05):
my own practice. And I'm notdead. In fact, I'm relieved that
I'm out from under it. So thatwas the first sort of tipping
point for me.
Chris (19:15):
So you went in to that wanting to kind of, or at least,
what I heard you say, is provethat you could do it right a
private practice, and then youcame out of that. And there was
obviously some failure involved.
But what tipped like, if youcould drill it down, like to a
thing, what was different aboutyour mindset, walking away from
that, versus walking into it?
Morgan (19:37):
Well, I think it was the the fact that I didn't succeed
at it, and it did not kill me,right? There was the
acknowledgement that it wasokay.
Chris (19:46):
So where was that perfectionistic element for you
at that moment in the postpractice? Yeah,
Morgan (19:53):
it wasn't gone. I mean, I'm still fighting with it, to
be 100% honest. It's part of mystory. It's part of who I am.
Yeah. Yeah. The difference isthat that was like the first
chink in the armor where it waslike, this is not helping you.
You know what? I mean, yeah. Andit was a very, very small, very
soft voice. And I didn't justembrace that and run and totally
(20:16):
morph into this different personfrom that moment on. It was just
a little acknowledgement of,Hey, didn't kill you. Hey,
you're okay. But then I went onwith life. Yeah,
Chris (20:25):
I recall a lot of turmoil about that, yeah, where you felt
really relieved, and then youwere like, oh my god, I'm a
failure. I was embarrassed.
Morgan (20:34):
It was to the point where even if I went to
professional conferences, dentalconferences, I avoided them
because I didn't or, you know,reunions with my residency
mates, I didn't want to have tosay, Yeah, I couldn't hack it.
Like it just really felt likeshit. I can
Chris (20:50):
relate to that so much.
Yeah, maybe not exactly what theperfectionistic thing? Yeah,
although someone did call meanal today, which is progress
for me. But that, that idea of,oh my god, like people are gonna
look at me as having failed, andI'm gonna avoid situations. Yes,
Morgan (21:07):
and what it really was, was me. It was me. I don't know
what the who the care like, whocares? What they said, what they
thought likely that they reallydidn't care enough to think
anything about it. But movinginto 2017 2017 let's set the
stage. This was January 2017 soI'm not getting political, but
it was, it was literally on theday of the inauguration of
(21:31):
Donald Trump. Yeah. So that timewas a time of a lot of
divisiveness, a lot of stress inour country in particular. And
you know, I certainly wasn'timmune to that. And then you add
on all the other stress I wasputting on myself just from
operating the way that I was.
There was a ton of uncertaintyand just toxicity and negativity
(21:51):
going around. And I gotshingles. I was 35 shingles is
not something I recommend toanybody. I had a really, a
really, really severe case. Iremember I was eating lunch in
my car, Chick fil A, of allthings, and I was talking to one
of my friends. She was coming tome to fix every problem in her
(22:13):
life, and I was taking thatrole. It was so unhealthy. We
have since come a long way. ButI was listening to her talk
about her life and her problems.
I was eating Chick fil A in mycar. This was during a work day,
and I had this headache that waslike lightning going through my
(22:33):
neck and into the front rightpart of my head, just on the one
side. And I was like, this isweird. So I remember I tried to
book a massage. I was like,Maybe I just like, have a crick
in my neck or something. And bythe next day, I woke up and I
had these really light red markson my forehead. And I was like,
(22:54):
so I texted our dad, who is aphysician, by the way, it's just
awesome to have a dad that's aphysician, it
Chris (23:00):
is, but there are some dark sides to it. Like, once you
get him going and you turn onthat program, it's never coming
off,
Morgan (23:08):
then you're about to die. Yeah, he's a little bit of
a hyper contract. But I sent himthe picture, and I was like, Is
this anything? Well, shingles isin my differential. I'm like,
what the shingles people over 65get shingles? So I went to
urgent care because it gotreally, really bad. And sure
enough, by then, the vesicularstuff started breaking up. It
got into my eye. Had tobasically stay in the dark for a
(23:30):
couple of months. I couldn'tdrive, I couldn't do anything
that required me to be in thelight, right? Not Weeks, months.
Yeah, I mean, it really was liketwo months. And bless my I mean,
Matt just took the wheel. We,you know, we, we had four kids,
and our youngest was three. Atthat time, she didn't understand
why I was bedridden. And I tellthis story because the story
(23:54):
that I have attached to this,whether it's true or not, it was
clear to me in that moment thatI wasn't the way I was living my
life. I couldn't do it that wayanymore. I wasn't taking care of
myself physically, I wasn'ttaking my care of myself
emotionally, the level of stressthat I was putting myself under.
And I say it that way becausethat's exactly what I was doing.
(24:15):
I was putting myself under thatstress. I needed to do it
differently. And I God, Iremember pleading I couldn't
sleep at night. A lot of thetime I was up in the middle of
the night. I remember justpleading with God, please, I
will do anything. I will do itright this time, please, just
(24:36):
let me get over this. Not that Iwas suicidal, but I had a little
bit of an understanding of beingin so much pain that you would
want to be gone, and that reallyscared me, because I had these
four kids, I have this beautifullife, and here I was in such
pain, and I say it because I hadset myself up in a way. Me that
(25:00):
I was suffering and it didn'thave to be that way. Yeah, the
little exclamation point on thatwas, you know, I did finally
heal from that, thank God. Butthen 2020, comes along in the
pandemic, and it's like, oh,yeah, you're not in control,
bitch. I think from all of that,it was okay. The only thing I'm
in control of is myself. Yeah,that's it, and I am the one that
(25:21):
chose to live the way that I wasliving, and I didn't have to do
that anymore. So more of thatpressure was let out a little
bit again, not not completely. I
Chris (25:31):
am curious, because I know that one of the things that
you found amidst these littlemoments is coaching. When did
you find
Morgan (25:39):
that it was in 2020 that I found coaching. And there was,
I was so convinced I'm like,this, this is what I'm supposed
to do. It was so clear to me,and it still is, I'm like, this
is the thing. Why? Some of it, Ithink, has to do with
understanding what I havelearned through this experience
(26:03):
of my life that it was a choice.
I think a lot of people don'tsee that, and the second I
recognize that, hey, this is achoice and I can do it
differently, that's when thingsreally started to shift for me.
And I want other people to dothat. You know, I, I really want
other people to connect with whothey really are and what they're
(26:23):
really meant to be doing. It's apay it forward thing. I think,
yeah. And, you know, now we cometo 2024, where I've got three
teenagers, three teenage boys,two of which are doing what
they're supposed to be doing asteenagers, meaning that they are
really testing the boundariesand leaning into their
increasing independence, yeah,but it got really scary, and I
(26:48):
won't say a lot in terms ofdetails, because I want to
respect their privacy, but forme as a parent, there were some
things that they were involvedin that were not safe, we're not
healthy, and back to this cyclicnature that you and I talked
about last time I was so likewounded from what happened with
(27:09):
you when you were a teenager,that I was so terrified they
were going to go down sort of asimilar path, while also
understanding from a parentperspective, that I really
didn't want to make them feelabandoned in any way, so I was
constantly juggling this, like,how do I guide them in a in the
(27:32):
right way, but also have theirback? Yeah, you know, I didn't
want to be like a punitiveparent or a parent that didn't
know like what to do. You know
Chris (27:45):
no parent knows what to do. I know they don't, and
there's no book about
Morgan (27:50):
it. And each kid is different. It's different too,
yeah, but it took me some work.
It took me being coached some aswell. Where did
Chris (27:58):
perfectionism live in that process of trying to figure
out how to maintain a connectionwith your boys,
Morgan (28:04):
it got in the way of it, right, right? Well, some of my
reaction was so fear based.
Yeah, I just really didn't wantthem to get hurt. Yeah, it was
less about image. I mean,there's always that. There is a
little bit of like, oh, people,people know what's going on, and
people are talking, you know,that doesn't always feel great,
yeah, but for me, it was morefear about if I don't get it
(28:26):
right there, something will goreally wrong. It wasn't so much
about me as much as it was. I'mjust really scared they're gonna
get hurt or hurt someone else,for that matter. And so we had a
really, a really rough year,year and a half, I would say it
was hell, but through, throughbeing coached, and through a lot
(28:48):
of trial and error, getting itwrong, sometimes getting it
right, and then getting slappedin the face with the next thing,
yeah, is a very dynamicsituation, I came to the
understanding that the absolutemost important thing above all
else was just being connected tothem. And I think part of what
(29:10):
really brought that home for methis past August, my husband and
I were on our way with our justturned 15 year old. Oh,
Chris (29:25):
there's
Morgan (29:26):
there's that age again.
I know isn't that crazy, blessbut one of our traditions, once
the kids become teenagers, fortheir birthday, Matt and I take
them out to dinner, to whereverthey want to go. Some are
usually somewhere really nice,and so that's what we were
doing. We were celebrating. Thisis my second son, his birthday.
We were taking him to dinner. Itwas a beautiful Sunday, late
afternoon, early evening, thesun was shining. I mean, it was
(29:51):
a gorgeous day, and we'redriving along in my Tahoe, Matt
was driving, and we got intothis scary. As hell. Car
accident was not our fault, butour car completely flipped over
and spun around and skidded halfa block on its roof, yeah. And I
mean, we were all okay, which isa miracle, but I really did see
(30:16):
it in slow motion, and it feltlike, it felt like we were
skating along for like 30minutes. And my thought was,
what the hell are we going tohit or this is how I die? There
was just such a back to midlife,calling you and saying you're
halfway to dead. I felt likeyou're going to die. Now, is
this? Is this what you want?
(30:38):
Have you done what you want todo? Because you're dead now,
damn it, that's a wake up call.
Yeah. And so after I went Ifound out about myself that when
I go into shock, I'm real goodunder pressure. I was like, We
need to get out of the carbefore it blows up. There was
some guy that was had seen theaccident, and he's like, Is
everybody okay? I mean, course,all of our air airbags had
(30:59):
deployed. We could not seeanything. We're hanging upside
down, right? And there's like,this dust and smoke. And I'm
like, oh my god, the car's gonnaexplode. So he's like, Is
everybody okay? How many are inthere? Matt was kind of like,
uh, we're okay. We're if I saidthere's three of us, we need to
get out of this car. Yeah. It'sjust very like, barking orders,
(31:20):
you know, and like, the emotiondidn't hit me until we got out
and we were standing there onthe side of the street, and I
saw my son standing there, andoh my god, like I grabbed him
and just squeezed him as tightas I could and sobbed, which I
think scared the shit out ofhim, because he had never seen
(31:40):
me cry like that. Yeah, that waswhen I was just like, it could
it could just be gone. You know,it could all be gone. And these
humans that I'm raising are,they're coming into adulthood,
and they have choices that theyare gonna make, and I may not
agree with them, yeah, I canguide them, but I can only guide
(32:01):
them if I'm really connected tothem and if I'm willing to
accept whatever decision theymake, you know? So the takeaway
there was really that I can behyper vigilant, I can control,
yeah, I can perfect. I can excelall I want to, and then I'm
dead. What's the point? And sowhere I am today, I'm still in
(32:22):
the pot. You know, this is stillan evolving process, but I think
the lid is actually thepressure's out, and the lid is
kind of cracked open. I feellike I have really let go of the
hustle, yeah? And I know it,because I just feel so much more
relaxed, like, for instance,over the ski trip, we were
(32:43):
snowed in, and we were supposedto get up at like 430 in the
morning and take a two wheeldrive, 12 passenger van down a
mountain in 40 mile per hourwinds in the dark, negative teen
wind chill on snow covered roadsto drive for three hours and go
to the airport. And I just wokeup, and I was like, No, we're
(33:04):
not gonna do that. And it wasokay. We I knew we would figure
something out. Yeah, I think oldme control freak me would have
been like, what do we do? Weneed to figure this out, you
know? And instead, I was able tobe present. I was there. I we
had an extra day. It was moretime. It was a lovely day.
Chris (33:25):
So there was a beautiful moment in that last day. That
was what I'm gonna call theextra day, yeah, the day, bonus
day. You said, Yeah, we're notgonna do that. And you rented
real genius, yeah, because wehad just talked about it. And
you said, We're gonna sit downand watch this movie together. I
thought that your husband mightjump out the window, but he but,
(33:47):
but we all did it, and, youknow, it was a shared
experience. And I looked at thatas such a bonus, yeah, and I
think, you know, more and more,there's just so much beauty in
being able to let go of an ideaor a plan that you had so that
you can be present for what'sactually happening and unfolding
instead, yeah,
Morgan (34:08):
absolutely being able to relax into just being where you
are. Yes, there's so much there.
It's right in front of yourfucking face, every
Chris (34:20):
day, every day, every day, yeah, even on the bad days,
right?
Morgan (34:24):
And so I think that is where I am. You know, I have
learned that, not just that,I've learned I'm actually I'm
practicing that idea of justbeing where I am and being
connected. And I really do thinkthat I found my my calling, my
purpose, the reason that I'mhere, yeah, and what's
interesting about that callingis that it applies in every area
(34:47):
of my life. It's not just like acareer. It is something that is
infused into my relationshipswith every person in my life. It
shows up in my coaching work. Itshows up in this podcast. Yes,
and it just feels so good toknow that I have come back to
who I really am and what I'mreally meant to be doing, what
(35:11):
I'm really meant to be givingand offering, whether people
take it or not, I'm putting itout there, and I was not doing
that before, yeah, because I wastoo scared. It was too scary. It
felt too unsafe. I have been
Chris (35:23):
honored to watch you, and it's just been a joy approach
parenting and really trying tofigure out that balance of
establishing a connection,allowing for some independence,
letting go of some control,yeah, with your kids. And even
though I really have been on theperiphery of that, there's an
(35:47):
aspect of it that has just beenso fucking healing, given where
we came from, and to watch youstand up and really push to
change that mold, has, it's justbeen a joy to watch. Really has
Morgan (36:02):
Well, thank you. You have been instrumental. You and
I have had many talks
Chris (36:08):
about this stuff. Never leave your wing, man.
Morgan (36:13):
But I think it's interesting, and this kind of
brings us into themicronutrient. I want to tie
together our stories here, yeah.
And I told you this before, whatI notice when I look at our
stories is we start asourselves, and then because of
this one event that thatimpacted both of us in different
ways, we went these differentroutes, like almost opposite
(36:33):
ways. Yeah. And on the outside,people might have looked at me
and been like, well, Damn, she'skilling it like no problem
there. And they might havelooked at you and been like, Oh,
he's really struggling with thedivorce and the this and
whatever. And yet, what wasreally true is there was
suffering happening regardless,because both of us were armored
(36:56):
up in different ways to staysafe, to protect ourselves,
Chris (37:01):
yeah, I was thinking of this analogy of, like, you
really had that story of beingthe athlete with the perfect
record, and I was the athletethat had a hell of a lot of
potential, but my record waskind of shaky, yeah, right, and
so I was afraid that I wouldnever be able to climb out of
(37:22):
that, and you were afraid oflosing your title, yeah? So
there's like, the consistency offear across both absolutely and
the thing that is sointeresting, you and I are very
different people in a lot ofways, but there are some core
ingredients, hashtag, fuckinggrit, yeah. That show up for
(37:42):
both of us, yeah and yeah. Thatmaybe translated on the surface,
looking a little bit different,but Jesus, we both really worked
hard, yeah, to try to producesomething Yeah,
Morgan (37:54):
and I it's crazy that we're both in this place. Within
the last six months to a year,this has been the culmination,
yeah, all of that kind ofcoming, coming off, like,
putting all of that crap down,yes. And so was born the
podcast.
Chris (38:10):
And I kind of feel in some ways, like we're back in
the suburban again. I know,yeah, I'm still waiting for you
to put paper towels in your I
Morgan (38:19):
have some right here, like you used to do, no, it was
my nostrils and my ears. Like
Chris (38:24):
back to that core aspect, yeah, of us and who we are
individually and who we areinteracting. Yeah.
Morgan (38:32):
And I know this story, our stories, I would venture to
say, a hell of a lot of peopleout there in this age group, and
not in this age group for thatmatter. Yeah, it's not unique,
yeah, you know. But
Chris (38:44):
it's also, it's like, this being on top of the ski run
where you're like, god damn it,I have to go down that to get
lunch. Do you want lunch or not?
I don't want to do that. I'm nothungry, you know. And for you,
is a blue run. And for me, I hadthe exact same experience and
the wilderness of Canada justscary.
Morgan (39:04):
It's it is scary. It's scary to put all that shit down,
right? But ultimately, I thinkthe quintessential midlife
experience is that the shit getstoo heavy. It's not working
anymore. In fact, it's workingagainst you, and you hit some
kind of wall where youunderstand that, and you're
called to come home, yeah. And Iwould love to know, for those
(39:24):
who are listening, have you beencalled
Chris (39:26):
at this stage, and are you answering that call exactly
and how? Yeah. Andfundamentally, it's a
fascinating thing, because Ifeel this evolution in me, this
return to myself. But you know,a lot of it's looking back over
my shoulder in the last sixmonths and like realizing how I
feel inside, day to day now, ascompared to how I felt inside,
(39:50):
like a year ago. And I don'tknow that there's always like
this, crash, bang, lightningthing that happens. No,
Morgan (39:58):
it's just, I would say it's probably not. Like that
most of the time, it's just
Chris (40:02):
back to the values thing, yeah. And you didn't explicitly
talk about values tonight, butit absolutely connection was
there. You didn't call themthat, but you talked about Yeah.
And you talked about them in theway that you approach being a
parent,
Morgan (40:14):
yeah. So there you go.
That's, uh, that's a little bitabout my journey. Any other take
home, points, invitations,jokes,
Chris (40:26):
haikus. I don't even know what a haiku is.
Morgan (40:31):
I would have to look it up. I kind of know there's
something about syllables. Ooh,I thought you were gonna bust it
out. You had this. I'm notperfect, damn it. I don't know
everything. I
Unknown (40:41):
just wanted to prove it.
Chris (40:45):
Now we can end the show
Morgan (40:47):
all right, and with that, we will see you next time
Unknown (40:51):
in the mud.
Chris (40:59):
Thanks for being with us in the mud today.
Morgan (41:02):
If you liked this episode, do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgonna make sure you never miss
an episode, and it's gonna helpus grow our muddy community,
which would mean the world tous. See you next
Chris (41:12):
time in the mud you
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.