March 4, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of The Midlife Mud, Morgan and Chris dive into the powerful theme of returning to oneself and rediscovering authenticity. They explore how many people, in their younger years, disconnect from their true selves—often using coping mechanisms that become unsustainable in midlife. Drawing from insights by Brené Brown and Mel Robbins, they discuss midlife as a reckoning, a time to shed facades and embrace vulnerability.
Chris shares his deeply personal journey, beginning with a life-altering event in 1992 when he was sent away from home for over two years. He reflects on the emotional impact of separation, feelings of abandonment, and how these early experiences shaped his adult life, leading to patterns of disconnection and self-doubt. His story unfolds through career struggles, the weight of imposter syndrome, and the heartbreaking estrangement from his daughters.
A turning point comes during a backcountry skiing trip in the remote Chic-Chocs of Quebec, where Chris is forced to confront his fears and embrace vulnerability. This experience sparks a transformation—leading him to reassess his values, prioritize authenticity, and build deeper connections with his community.
Morgan and Chris emphasize the power of storytelling, the importance of support systems, and how embracing authenticity can lead to profound personal growth. Tune in for an honest, raw conversation about resilience, midlife shifts, and the messy, necessary work of coming home to yourself.
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Episode Transcript
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Morgan (00:01):
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bringthe real shit, all the grit and
pretty much zero clue about howto deal with this crazy phase of
life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and join ourcommunity, and you'll stay up to
date on all the dirt, and, evenbetter, become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait tosee you there.
Chris (00:30):
All right, tighten those boots and let's get muddy. You.
Unknown (00:45):
Music. Welcome back to the mud,
Chris (00:47):
back to life, back to reality. I
Morgan (00:52):
thought you were gonna say something muddy, damn it.
Well, I'm coming in hot today.
Oh, like your daughter. Like mydaughter, yeah. So we just got
back from this ski trip inVermont, which I lived, I
survived. I'm so excited, yes,and there was a lot of bruh
happening with my teenagers, butI don't know, like, you know
that feeling when you get backfrom a trip and you're just
(01:12):
trying to get caught up. Ofcourse, we had to extend it an
extra day because we got snowedin. So your second ski day,
which I did not participate inbecause I can only commit to
one. Was like extreme sportsskiing, wasn't it? Well,
Chris (01:25):
I don't think an extreme sport skier would call it that,
but we did, and I felt like Iwas stuffed into a time capsule.
I think I turned into a teenageboy for at least, like three
hours.
Morgan (01:37):
It's because you were hanging out with three teenage
boys. I
Chris (01:40):
mean, we just had a freaking blast plowing down the
snowy mountains. It was likepowder day. There was probably
10 inches of fresh snow all ofthese moguls. And we just went
ripping through, hopping off thelittle moguls, and then we
stopped and waited for yourhusband.
Morgan (02:00):
Bless his heart. I really felt he had fun, though
he did. He had fun. He can'tkeep up with you guys, and I
certainly can. I don't even try.
But, you know, I was so proud ofyou. I mean, right? I was proud
of me. You did.
Chris (02:13):
You. You honestly made a lot of improvements over last
year. Yeah, I felt that way too,and I was so proud that you
overcame the mental block thatyou put on yourself about going
to the top of the mountain. Yes,
Morgan (02:27):
although I will say you are a bastard, because you're
like, Okay, we're just gonna goon this green. And I was like,
That green? Are you? Is thatreally green, or is it blue? And
you're like, it's green, and Icould tell there was a little
hint of
Chris (02:44):
there is actually like a double bastard move, which was
the only way that you could getto lunch was by doing that blue
run. And
Morgan (02:53):
it was just mean, because there we are. We had
gotten done with the green part,and all of a sudden it's like,
Wait, it's really steep here,and I'm gonna die, and you're
like, lunch is right down there.
So let's just, you don't, don'teven, don't even look.
Chris (03:06):
Just Just go. I was so proud of you. Anyway,
Morgan (03:10):
let's get started with today's today's topic. Something
really exciting. Uh oh, wow.
Chris (03:18):
Buckle up. V, E, R n, burn. Wasn't that short circuit?
Morgan (03:25):
That's a good question.
But today, we wanted to talkabout something really
important. Really a lot of thisepisode is gonna be coming from
you. Chris, right. Yeah. So wereally have been talking a lot
lately, you know, off the show,with each other, about how when
we were younger, at least, weare aware now of us choosing,
maybe not so consciously, butchoosing to kind of walk away
(03:47):
from ourselves in a way. Wefound ways to cope with life
that took us away from who wereally are. And it wasn't until
more recently, in midlife, thatthat became unsustainable for
Chris (04:02):
us. And here's the thing at the time, I didn't even think
about it as walking away. Oh, ofcourse not. I just thought,
yeah, this is, this is the wayyou walk,
Morgan (04:10):
right? This is what you do. This is what feels safest.
It's the retrospective, exactly,yeah. But then what you realize
is the cost that's coming withit, and it's just harder and
harder to do the older you getand the more experienced in life
you get, yeah. And so it's likeBrene Brown says midlife is like
the universe taking you by theear and saying, I'm not fucking
(04:33):
around. You're halfway to deadAmen. And let's not, let's not
do this anymore, right? And sowe wanted to talk a little bit
about our own personal journeyswith this sort of peeling back
the layers of armor that we'veput on, and this return home to
ourselves, because we've saidbefore, the backbone of this
show is really authenticity. Sothese episodes are going to be
(04:56):
about our journey to reconnectwith our own authenticity. Yeah,
right. Is there anything that Ineed to add to that?
Chris (05:02):
Well, it's also an opportunity just to talk a
little bit more about ourselvesand our story, right, which
Morgan (05:08):
feels i Man, every time you say it, I'm like, Oh, that
feels self indulgent. Like, whywould anybody care? But really,
what we're trying to do, it'snot like, oh, let's me, me, me,
me. It really is a way ofinviting you in being vulnerable
and relating. Because I think alot of the stuff that we have
done is stuff that that a lot ofpeople do in life.
Chris (05:30):
So Mel Robbins has a new book out called let them, and
I've been listening to it onaudiobook, and she talks about
friendships. And in a way, theway that I look at what we're
doing here is, is buildingfriends, building a community,
yeah, and part of that isspending time together. And she
cites some research in therethat even to be a casual friend,
(05:53):
it takes 74 hours. That's a lotof time. It's a lot of time. So
in three years, we'll befriends. But I only bring that
up because the intention of thisis to spend time, yeah, as we
would our friends, and part ofthat is sharing the stories
Morgan (06:09):
absolutely and and that is a two way street it stands
that we invite you to share withus. You know, if you haven't
signed up for for ournewsletter, that's a way to
communicate with us and to kindof know what's going on. And
really what we're wanting to dois is hear about you and your
life. What experiences do weshare as a group? So with all of
(06:30):
that said, I'm going to kind ofturn the floor over to Chris so
he can talk more about this, andthe next episode, I will be
sharing a little bit about me.
Chris (06:38):
So this is really a story of Homecoming. It's a story of
kind of unraveling a way thatI've been doing things for most
of my adult life and then risingfrom that. But in order to
really talk about that, I feellike I've got to go back to the
beginning, not the verybeginning, but kind of the
(06:59):
adolescent zone of my life,where things are getting ready
to launch for me and reallytaking shape. And it's really,
it's interesting how in thattime between 12 and 20, how much
happens, and at the time, youdon't even realize what a mark
that makes no not at all for thetrajectory of your adult life.
(07:19):
But it really, really does. Sowhat I've done is thought about
four stories now realize it goesa lot deeper than that, but I
think these four stories arekind of areas of my life will
help to define that arc that Italked about, where I kind of
walk away a little bit frommyself and develop these
adaptive patterns for living,and then realized sometime later
(07:42):
that maybe I should revisit thatwhole thing, right? So the first
story is November, 1992 I alsogave each story a name. What
Morgan (07:52):
was the top song in 1992 in November? I'm gonna Google
it. Okay. Oh, how do you talk toan angel?
Chris (08:00):
Oh, my God, really, you talk to an angel? Yeah, all
right. So now we're all back in1992 so at that time, I was 15
years old, and had beenstruggling for some time at
home, and things had kind ofcome to a head, yeah, with mom
and dad and me, where mom anddad had made the decision that
(08:23):
they just I think that it wasreally a safety call. They were
afraid and they didn't know whatto do,
Morgan (08:29):
which, by the way, I can relate to now.
Chris (08:31):
I can totally relate and in telling this story, mom, dad,
if you're listening, in no waydo I want you to feel bad about
this because you made the choicethat you felt like you needed to
make at the time, and myperspective as a 15 year old was
I didn't know what the fuck wasgoing on, either. And one cloudy
day, we went to the Louisvilleairport as a family. You were
(08:54):
there. Mom and Dad were there,and a friend of mine that I
still know, and he now is myfinancial advisor was also
there. He was that I don'tremember, yes, he's in a picture
that dad just uncovered not toolong ago. And I had no idea on
that day the magnitude of whatwas about to happen. But
(09:15):
essentially, mom and dad sent meaway and told me it was only for
a couple of weeks, and I wasgone for two and a half years,
the formative years of yourlife, yeah. And in that span of
time, two and a half years, Iwas in Louisville, a total of, I
don't know, 14 days or somethinglike that, over the course of
three trips, right? And, well,let's go back to the airport for
(09:38):
just a second. Every time I passthat gate, I still physically am
taken back a little bit to thatmoment. There was so much grief
with that. I mean, even at theaspect of leaving for two weeks,
there was something that felt sobig about that, like I felt
terrible. I felt like I justwanted to take it back so that
everything could be okay and Icould just stay home. Home, and
(10:00):
things could just be all right.
And it was the grief of losingmom and dad and you and
everything that I knew, yeah.
Morgan (10:08):
And it really was a very for the family. It was like this
turbulent time, right? And it
Chris (10:14):
was right before fucking Thanksgiving. I mean, literally,
two weeks before something likethat. And so I get on a plane
and go to the other side of thecountry, and six weeks later,
I'm sitting in Oregon, thestate, Oregon, not like a piano.
And
Morgan (10:34):
okay, so we're not in an organ. We're not
Chris (10:36):
in an organ of the body or at a musical instrument.
Morgan (10:39):
We're in the North Pacific Northwest, right? We're
at the Pacific Northwest.
Chris (10:44):
And you know, do you ever have those moments where they
are so profoundly emotional thatyou remember these weird details
very vividly? Yeah, it was asunny day. There was like three
feet of snow on the ground. Iwas at this boarding school in
rural Oregon that was in themiddle of nowhere, literally,
there was not a town for 26miles in either direction. And
(11:07):
even then, those towns were verysmall, and they were just snow
banks piled up all over theplace. And I was wearing this
long sleeved green cotton tshirt with a hood in it, and I
was about to make my first phonecall home with my mentor at the
school at the time, and I wasn'tallowed to have any unsupervised
(11:29):
calls, and we're hovered over adesk. She's on one side, I'm on
the other side, and I'm onspeakerphone talking to mom and
dad, and I can just rememberthat the voice inside of me
said, Chris, just tell thetruth. Tell them what happened.
Tell them that a lot of thethings that were really
happening didn't happen, whichwas actually the truth, and that
(11:51):
you just want to come home andthings will be different. And I
told them all of those things,and I was very honest with them
and authentic. And what I wasmet with at the time was we
can't trust you, and you're notcoming home. And that's kind of
the way it is. And I don't knowexactly what they said, but
(12:11):
that's what I registered fromit. Yeah, and I remember feeling
like something broke inside ofme, and I went to this other
room in the same building thatwas adjoining the office, and
sat on a green couch and justbawled, yeah, for like, two
hours, I didn't know what Iwould do. I just felt
(12:32):
overwhelmed. And I remembertaking a deep breath at some
point and just deciding, okay,Chris, you're just gonna have to
suck it up and figure out a wayto move forward here, because
nobody's gonna
Morgan (12:45):
help. Yeah, what was the dominating feeling sitting on
that couch, bawling?
Chris (12:49):
I just felt abandoned, Yeah, completely abandoned. And
I felt like I had been put in aworld where I was just gonna
have to be alone. And I alsofelt like I showed up as myself,
and that's what it was met with,right? Like, the takeaway for
me, and it wasn't this clear,obviously, is I shouldn't really
risk being that vulnerable.
That's not the way. I need to begood. I need to be seen as good
(13:12):
and just not have this happenagain. So the next bunch of my
life went forward. And, like Isaid, there's a lot of stories
in here along the way, but onepervasive theme, I think, is
that that bit of vulnerabilityand that authenticity that comes
with vulnerability Wasn't therea lot of the time, right? So I
(13:32):
carry on with my life, and youknow, I go through a little
brief window of time where I wasclose to being really authentic,
and that's when I was doing alot of the Outdoor Leadership
work and work with kids, andthen I quickly kind of veered
back into a different zone ofnot being as authentic and
(13:54):
trying to kind of fit myselfinto a mold of what I projected
as being successful, which meantbeing married, having kids,
having a career, having materialthings. Those were the things
that I identified as successful,and none of them I really
attached to being authentic.
Morgan (14:12):
Yeah, it's not that you can't do those things
authentically. It's just thatwhen you're doing it from a
place of trying to fit into amold, right? It's you risk not
being authentic while you'redoing it.
Chris (14:22):
And I really think that inadvertently or subconsciously,
I just hadn't connected theimportance of being authentic.
In fact, I think somehow,without really consciously doing
it, I had connected that Ishouldn't be authentic.
Morgan (14:37):
Yeah, it probably wasn't as cut and dry in front of mind.
No, yeah, you're deep downsomewhere in there. It's like,
oh no. Bad plan. Bad plan.
Abort. Abort. That plan.
Chris (14:49):
So flashing forward now to November of 2019 so I'm at a
point where I have two kids thatare 15 and 13. Divorced with
some conflict for a number ofyears, eight to nine years, I
had gotten to a place at workwhere I was a director level in
(15:11):
a large healthcare systemcompany that employs like 35,000
people climbing the ladder,climbing the ladder, and doing
all the things. And you know,life was feeling just really
stressful. In some ways, I feltaccomplished, like I had made my
goal at work, or at least I wason the way to making my goal,
which at one point was to be avice president, and I had kids,
(15:34):
and I I love my kids, and Ireally try as hard as I can to
love them in the way that I knowhow, and so I would count that
as somewhat of a success. Butthere had been a lot of conflict
back and forth and unrest, andwe kind of we got to this point
where I was standing in thegarage of my girlfriend's house,
(15:57):
and now she has two kids too,which I'm really involved in
their lives as well, and we aregetting ready to decorate for
Christmas. And at that time, mykids would come over every other
weekend, kind of a standard coparenting arrangement, right?
And they would spend some periodof the weekend with us. And I
(16:18):
remember that on that weekend,my oldest, who was 15, hadn't
been coming, and she wanted tocome at the last minute, and I
asked her if we could just wait
Morgan (16:28):
and she hadn't been coming because of some conflict,
right? Because of some conflict,
Chris (16:32):
yeah, and, you know, there were therapists involved
in different folks, and I hadjust asked if we could wait and
talk about this with thetherapist to kind of come up
with a plan. And what happenedwas she got really upset, and
there was never any meeting withthe therapist. And the next
thing that I got was, I wantspace from you. And that turned
(16:55):
into, I haven't really seen hersince 2019 Yeah,
Unknown (16:59):
and it's 2024 right?
2025 actually, shit, shit. Yeah,it's 2025
Morgan (17:05):
well. And back to the like, these are formative years
for her formative
Chris (17:09):
years, and and what I find so sad and tragic is like
it just that's the age that Iwas. Yeah, it's a weird circle,
and the circumstances aredifferent, but it's just eerie
how history repeats itself.
Yeah, this sort of cyclicnature. And there was never any
closure for anybody in thatscenario, really, for her, for
me. And so that happened inNovember, and then in August of
(17:33):
2020, several months later, Igot laid off from my big job. So
yeah, I'm already spinning alittle bit, and then this
happens, and it really justknocks me off balance a lot, and
it has me totally recalculatingeverything. And I remember,
before I lost that job, therewas a woman that I kind of
(17:56):
looked at as a mentor, who, atthat time was a vice president,
then she went on to be a seniorvice president at a different
company, and we would have theseone to ones. And I really liked
her. She was very personable,and I felt like authentic. And I
remember saying to her on morethan one occasion, I will never
go back to physical therapy. Andhere I was being forced to go
(18:17):
back to physical therapy. I hadto, like it was my means of a
living. Yeah,
Morgan (18:24):
what did that? What did you make it mean to have to go
back to physical therapy afterhaving said, I will never do
that? Oh, it
Chris (18:30):
felt like a failure. I was embarrassed, because not
only did I go back to physicaltherapy, but I went back to
physical therapy within thecompany that I had been kind of
elevated in so all the peoplethat before had sort of seen me
climb into this position havenow seen me fall out of it,
yeah, and so every time I wentto a meeting, every time that I
(18:53):
was put on the spot to talk, Iliterally got a dry mouth. I
literally got a stress like astrong stress response, because
I felt like I was an imposter,and that I had been called out,
yeah,
Morgan (19:06):
and you're living that daily, every day, yeah. And
Chris (19:10):
then I got back into a position where I was literally
working in the same office,managing. It was a different
team of people. It's actually avery difficult team of people,
all wonderful people, but itwasn't a very healthy work
environment, and I ended upgetting back into a position
where I was managing them, and Ithink a lot about why did I
(19:30):
agree to do that? And I remembertalking with the guy that hired
me to do that job, who I hadknown for like, 10 years, and
interviewing with him. And evenas I was interviewing, I didn't
really want the job. The thingthat compelled me to take it was
my ego. I felt like I needed tobe in a leadership position. It
Morgan (19:49):
sounds like there was so much of your identity wrapped
up, your worth was wrapped up inthat yes,
Chris (19:57):
and that goes back to like, what did I. To build all
this on,
Morgan (20:01):
right? Because if you admit that you built all this on
something that was faulty, thenyou have to look at everything.
And that's really fucking scary,right? Yeah? But,
Chris (20:09):
you know, here's the takeaway from kind of this era
of life, 2019, and 2020, wasthat on multiple levels, my
family life and my work life,there was this yellow zone going
on this blinking light. Hello,your approach is becoming
unsustainable, hazardous,
Morgan (20:28):
right? So then what?
Yeah, so what else started tocome into play here. So
Chris (20:33):
now a little bit of time goes on, and I'm just in that
uncomfortable seat, right thatwe just talked about all day,
every day, all day, every day.
I'm mourning the loss of mydaughter. I'm really wanting to
try to reconnect. I'm feelinglike I don't know how to do
that. And and then things atwork are just coming down right,
and I'm trying to just kind ofduct tape them back together,
(20:54):
but to not really a lot ofsuccess. I'm not feeling
satisfied. And then August 2021like a year after I got laid
off, and I'm managing this otherclinic my buddy Jamie calls now.
Jamie is that guy for me that iswith me for life. You know how
some friends are just with youfor life? He's the ride or die.
(21:16):
He's the guy, right? I don'texactly know why, but in that
little brief window of time thatI described where I was kind of
being my authentic self,following the leadership and
outdoor work, and that's where Imet Jamie, and we spent way
fucking more than 74 hourstogether, doing really intense
outdoor stuff with other people.
(21:37):
And I think it just solidified abond that was probably naturally
already there on some organiclevel. And he has sort of come
in and out of my life. He'salways been there in some level.
And he calls me up and he hesays, I think we need to go on a
trip. And I want to take you,like, up to the chick chocks. I
do this trip every couple years.
And the chick chocks is a littlepeninsula in northern Quebec on
(22:00):
the St Lawrence waterway. It'snorth. It's way north. Yeah, way
way north. And this little partof me lit up when I got that
phone call, like, oh my gosh,
Morgan (22:12):
really, because I just died inside.
Chris (22:16):
It took me away from all of those stresses that we were
just talking about with work andfamily and and it, it opened up
that door of of adventure forme. It
Morgan (22:26):
was the real you going, Oh, I get to come out and play,
Chris (22:30):
yes, like, where you you've locked me away and
breathe, I know. And so this isfunny. I walk upstairs and I
said, Honey, Jamie just called.
I really want to go on this backcountry adventure trip. And she
looked at me, like, physicallyup and down, and said, Well,
honey, that's great, but you'vegot a lot of work to do. Like,
(22:52):
I'm afraid that you might have aheart attack if you actually try
to do that right now. God blessher for her honesty. She is,
yeah, she wasn't wrong. She waskind of supportive, actually, in
her tone. And I did, like, Iworked really hard to go on that
trip. I worked out. I lost like30 pounds, I got stronger. It
really served as a driver forme. It was something that I put
(23:17):
on the calendar, and it kept megoing, helped me kind of march
forward. And I hadn't had avision that was really driven by
that more authentic explorer inme, first since I could
remember, like, since my early20s. And so that's what that ski
trip was for me. I bought allthis new gear, which is always
(23:37):
fun to buy a new gear. Oh, myGod, you wouldn't shut up about
it for like, a year, I would notshut up. Yeah, like it was
really the thing that kept megoing for a long time. And I
drove to Maine, it was actuallythis time of year, and I packed
up the car with all my stuff,drove up there and met Jamie and
a couple of other people, and westuffed the car full of stuff
(24:00):
like we could barely move. Wehad so much gear and food and
things, and just drove 12 hoursthrough New Brunswick, which is
this snowy land. There was snowremoval equipment there that I
had never even imaginedpossible. I mean, things like
the size of garages that wouldmove snow banks. It was amazing.
(24:20):
And we put on all kinds ofmusic. I mean, it was sort of
this really epic trip for me.
And we got there, and the firstcouple days were great. The
third and fourth day, we didsome stuff that was really hard,
and I had never been backcountry skiing before, and we
were climbing, and when youclimb on skis, it's a lot
(24:43):
different than going downhill.
And I was struggling and keptfalling down and getting stuck
in snow, like literally up to mychest, and it was very humbling,
like, back to asking for help.
There was one moment at the endof one of those days where the
rest of the group was like,we're. Ready to go. They just
wanted to go out and go biggerand go a little higher than we
(25:05):
had gone before, and go a littlebit steeper. And as everybody
was gearing up ready to go, Ilooked at Jamie and said, Hey, I
don't want to do this. I don'twant to Yeah, and we just do,
like, a little bit easier andmeet the other people. And for
me to even do that huge, oh myGod, it was fucking huge. And
(25:26):
the thing is, like I wasn'tdoing that anywhere in my life,
like I needed help everywhere inmy life, and I wasn't asking for
it, right? I was just layeringup one thing after another to
just either avoid or delay.
Morgan (25:43):
And it gets so heavy, so
Chris (25:45):
heavy, yeah? So so heavy.
You know, I think one of thethings that I did to distract
myself was just pour, pourmyself into work. And then when
work broke down, I started todrink a lot, yeah? And at first
it was, you know, here andthere, but a lot more than
usual, here and there, and thenit just, kind of like the frog
boiling in water just became alot more here than there, until
(26:09):
it was just a present force inmy life. And I didn't know how
to get away from that, andnobody really knew what was
going on, because I wasn'tasking for help,
Morgan (26:19):
right? You were always so good at, like, keeping all of
this sort of underneath thesurface. That
Chris (26:24):
was my thing. That's right. And in fact, people
recognize me for it, like,you're always so good at just
keeping everything together, andyou're so relaxed. And I'm like,
I'm not fucking relaxed, I'mfreaking out. So on that day
when I asked Jamie to just takea different route down the hill.
That was all I was asking for inthe moment, but it did sort of
(26:44):
unlock something about the ideaof asking for help. For me, it
became more conscious for methat I needed to do that somehow
in a bigger way. But I wasn'tready to do it yet, so I just
packed up after that ski tripand went home and kind of
(27:05):
continued doing the same thingfor a little while longer. But
there was the key takeaway thatI wanted something different,
but I was really fucking scaredand didn't know what to do and
how to get to that next thing.
Morgan (27:17):
Yeah, but suddenly there was the awareness that you
wanted something different,that's
Chris (27:21):
right. And it became palpable that I wanted something
different, that I didn't want tokeep going on the same path, but
I still felt like I had no ideahow I was gonna, like, redirect.
Yeah. So at that point, I thinkthat was February of 2023, so a
few more months go by and we'rein the magical month of November
(27:44):
again, and now my youngestdaughter is, guess what? Age?
Morgan (27:50):
Yeah, 1514, 1514. 1515, yeah, yeah. God dang
Chris (27:55):
it. I mean, it's like, it's crazy. When I went to put
this story together, I was like,What in the who, who wrote this
story universe, what is goingon? And so it's, it's the
Breeders Cup, which, for somereason, horse racing kind of
became a thing as a family. Wewould usually, when there's a
(28:16):
big race like that, Breeders CupDerby, we'd have a little party.
So my youngest daughter, shekept coming to visit every other
weekend, or was at that time,and it was her weekend to come.
And I remember in the beginningof the day, we went to look at
Ski stuff, ironically, and I hadbought her a new pair of boots,
(28:39):
and we were really excited aboutthat, and it was kind of a great
deal. And she expressed that shewas excited about it, and her
feet were finally big enoughthat they had stopped growing,
and she could start having herown equipment now. And so we did
that, and came home, and Icooked kebabs for the family,
and we had some friends comeover, and at that time, not
(29:00):
unlike many teenage kids that Iknow, including yours, she's was
on her screen a lot watchingTiktok, and yeah, you know, but
that's not particularly unusual.
And she had talked about havingsome stress around some things,
but again, nothing like hugelyout of the ordinary. And I was
standing at the sink doing thedishes, and she came up and
(29:23):
said, You know, I want to gohome. And it was her night to
stay there. And she said, I wantto go home, you know, right now.
And I just like, froze. I gothit with this wave of like
paralyzed emotion, because Iimmediately went back to
standing in the garage lookingfor Christmas stuff several
(29:45):
years before, right? It
Morgan (29:48):
was like PTSD from your oldest daughter. Was there
always part of you that thoughtit's only a matter of time
before this happens. It was my
Chris (29:55):
biggest fear. Yeah, like, I don't know if I thought it
would happen or not, but I know.
Told that it was my biggestfear. Yeah, I was really afraid
of it happening. I was afraid ofit happening the first time, and
then that happened, and then nowI was afraid of it happening the
next time. And I had worked sohard in my life as a parent to
try to control this from nothappening, which is like control
(30:16):
is an illusion, but I reallydidn't want it to happen, right?
And I think that in my fear, Ialmost evolved it to happen,
some
Morgan (30:27):
of this layering on, this trying to avoid a certain
path, you know, like this wasthe thing you were scared of,
and so all of your actions withyour daughters were born out of
protecting yourself and thatrelationship, right?
Chris (30:43):
And in doing so, I wasn't always authentic, right? And I
had been layering on all kindsof shit. And I'm sure that in
their own way, they could seethat, oh, yeah, they're
perceptive, right? Which is akind of a tragedy in itself,
yeah? And then there's kind ofno time to unpack it, because
Morgan (31:03):
she did ultimately do the same thing, estrange herself
from you, yeah, like,
Chris (31:07):
since that night, with the exception of one or two
conversations, I haven't talkedto her at her request. You know,
she she's asked for space, andI'm respecting that. But dang
it, that was the moment like Ithought, like, that was it? My
biggest fear happened. Themonster came out of the closet
and said, Hi, I'm here to eatyou right now. And I laid in bed
(31:30):
and ached physically to thebone. And I remember the next
morning, the family got up andwent to church, and I couldn't
go. I felt sick, and I called myboss later that week. I wasn't
sleeping. I still had thedrinking problem, and it just
got worse, because now I wasn'teating, I wasn't sleeping, and I
said, I'm going through somestuff and and he just said, your
(31:54):
mental health is the number oneimportant thing, so just do what
you have to do, like, if youneed to take time, just take the
time. Like, take leave. And someautopilot in me took over and
said, Yeah, that's a good idea.
We're gonna do that. Like, Idon't even know that it was me.
I'm not sure what took over atthat point, but some deep part
of me said, Yeah, we're gonnasit down and do this right now.
(32:15):
I
Morgan (32:17):
have this image of you, because up until that point, you
were so desperately grasping andtrying to control and and now
that the scariest thing hadhappened, there was nothing to
hold on to anymore, and like,there's this free falling visual
that I have in that time, youknow. And
Chris (32:37):
the hardest thing, one of the hardest things, was that I
had, I had this whole life, andI felt like I didn't want to
just throw out my life and runaway from it, but I also knew
that I needed to hit the pausebutton hard and just regroup.
Well,
Morgan (32:55):
it's back to what you said earlier about the
foundation, right? There was amajor fucking crack in the
foundation, major
Chris (33:02):
fucking crack. And it wasn't like something that I
could just fill it in with somespackle and right? I had to,
like, drill out the foundationand report, yeah, and
Morgan (33:12):
not knowing what whatever you're gonna build is
gonna look like after that, likeyou just gotta rebuild the
foundation, right?
Chris (33:18):
So the takeaway from that was that it's wake up time.
Morgan (33:24):
Yeah, in the most extreme way, in the most extreme
way. Well, I mean, maybe not themost but in a very extreme way.
Your story is a very extremeversion of this whole midlife
calling to come back toyourself. Yes,
Chris (33:40):
yeah. Because, you know, I had reached a point where it
really felt like life or deathfor me, if I did not make this
decision, I was gonna dieyounger. Yeah, and that, maybe
that's dramatic, and maybe it'snot, but that's the way it felt.
It felt that important. So
Morgan (33:57):
here I am. Where are you now? What is what is here? Well,
Chris (34:01):
I'm just trying to live the most authentic life that I
can, and the new foundationreally comes from a place of who
is Chris at his core, and nowbuild your life around that and
the micronutrients from all ofthis stuff. Like, as I sat down
and thought about like, what,what are the takeaways, I came
(34:21):
up with three things. One thingis that I have a special thing
to bring to the world, but Ican't do it unless I show up as
my authentic self. And in simpleterms, what I call that is a
creative explorer. Creative
Morgan (34:36):
explorer. I'm getting you a t shirt that says that,
okay, I would love that.
Chris (34:41):
The second thing that I came up with is that there are
no shortcuts to authenticity. Ittakes grit and it takes leaning
in to really scary anduncomfortable things. And for
me, that was staring down a skihill in the middle of wilderness
of Canada and it was also beingmet with the best. Biggest fear
of my life, actually happening,actually happening. And you
(35:05):
know, as alluring asdistractions can be, which for
me were all of the above, screentime, work, alcohol,
relationships, romantic, love,all of those things they may
offer, the allure of immediaterelief, but they're dead ends.
Yeah, they're dead ends and so,like, that's not part of my
(35:25):
foundation, yeah, not anymore.
And I'm not perfect, like hell.
You know, I do pick up my screenand
Morgan (35:31):
hell no, you're not. I'm not fucking perfect. But if you
if you had to go back to your 15year old self sitting on that
couch sobbing after that phonecall in in a sentence or two,
what would you say to yourselfin that moment?
Chris (35:47):
I know you're hurting, but don't stop being yourself.
Yeah. Like, show up again. Justkeep showing up. Yeah,
Morgan (35:53):
that's rich stuff.
There's so much there. And it isinteresting when you when you
look at it that way of like,what were the points in my life
when I started to pile on thearmor or abandon myself in some
way, my true self, to protectmyself and for every good reason
in the book, like it's notthere's no judgment for doing
that. I think we all do it to anextent, but inevitably you will
(36:15):
reach a point. Hello, midlife,when it is just not sustainable
anymore. And then you have achoice to make, you know, and is
that choice to lean into thefear of the unknown, of what
happens when you let go of allof that, or is it to really
double down on these, you know,maladaptive coping mechanisms,
right? And I think what you andI are saying by doing this
(36:37):
podcast, and just in the waythat we're living our lives is
that we're in for the unknown.
It's scary as hell, but we webuy into it now. We believe in
the value of it, yeah, and inthe value of ourselves, of what
we really have to offer. Well,
Chris (36:52):
in that that kind of leads me to the third takeaway,
values, yeah, back to valuingmyself, but also having values
for myself. And one of thethings that I really learned to
do in this period of time, inthe last couple years, and it
was crazy, like a couple yearsago, I sat down for the first
(37:16):
time, somebody asked me, Chris,like, here's a bunch of cards
with words on them, literally,like 60 flashcards with
different words on them. Pickout the ones that are your
values. And I was like, What?
What do you mean? It was fuckinghard for me to do that. It was
hard for me to do that, and Ihad never really spent time with
it. And how eye opening was thatfor me, and
Morgan (37:39):
by values, we don't mean, like, what everyone thinks
you should do or care about, orno, like,
Chris (37:44):
what does Chris Peterson think is really important? Like,
what are your what do you wakeup in the morning and it drives
you. It's such a wonderful toolto be able to say, like, these
are what my values are. Andthen, on a day to day basis, all
I really have to do in a givenmoment is just do a little cross
(38:05):
check. Am I acting consistentlywith my values right now? And
that's it like, that's how you
Morgan (38:11):
stay authentic. That's right, yeah. And that that's my
roadmap, yeah. So even ifthere's the unknown and even if
it's scary, at least you knowyou're in alignment with what
matters to you,
Chris (38:22):
right? And even if it's a bunch of stuff that I can't
control, I can always control myreactions, being within my
values. Yes, that's it. I mean,it's not always feeling that
simple.
Morgan (38:36):
It's not easy. We didn't say it was easy, but, holy crap.
But that's, that's, that's whereyou are right now, right? And
that compared to a year and ahalf ago is markedly different,
markedly. You know, I havewatched you totally flip your
life upside down and rebuild,yeah, and you seem, I won't
(38:56):
speak for you, but you seem somuch more genuinely content and
peaceful, even with the shitthat's going on all the time,
right? Like there's still plentyof shit going on, still plenty
of mud, but there's a peace thatyou have now, you know, and it
exudes from you. And I feel likeyou know our relationship has
gotten so much closer as aresult of that. So I just want
(39:19):
to acknowledge the courage thatI know it took to do that,
because not there aren't manypeople that could do it in that
way, and you did like I'vewatched you do it, so major
kudos.
Chris (39:30):
I appreciate that, and I'm super grateful for the
people that I've had around mein my life that have been
supportive. And the other thingthat I would say just quickly in
wrapping this up, is for a longtime, especially when I got to
that the last couple yearsbefore what I called wake up
time in November of 2023 I livedin fear that if I showed up and
(39:55):
was honest about where I was andreally asked for the help that.
I needed from the people that Icounted on that they would walk
away, yeah. And I think that wasthe 15 year old on the couch,
yes. And the thing is, nobodywalked away. And in doing what I
did, I walked towards people,and it just became very clear
(40:19):
that nobody was really everwalking away, except for me, I
was the one walking away, yeah,
Morgan (40:24):
because you had it in your head, you were meant to be
alone, right? And you're not,that's right, and neither is
anybody else, no, for thatmatter. And so that's, that's
part of why we tell this, thisstory. That's why we're telling
about ourselves. Because, youknow, if you are out there
experiencing something similar,feeling alone, feeling like you
built your life on a foundationthat has a huge crack in it, or
(40:46):
whatever it may be, you're notalone. I
Chris (40:48):
mean, damn it, that's in our intro. Yeah, that's the
purpose of this show,
Morgan (40:53):
that is, was what we're doing. We want to be here as a
as a community, to understandthat we're not alone. None of us
are any closing remarks.
Chris (41:02):
Thank you for listening and
Morgan (41:04):
get ready for my shit show next time. All right. Well,
yeah, we'll see you next time inthe mud.
Chris (41:17):
Thanks for being with us in the mud today.
Morgan (41:19):
If you liked this episode. Do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgoing to make sure you never
miss an episode, and it's goingto help us grow our muddy
community, which would mean theworld to us. See you
Chris (41:30):
next time in the mud you
Hey, I'm Morgan. I'm Chris. Welcome to the midlife
mud, where we promise to bringthe real shit, all the grit and
pretty much zero clue about howto deal with this crazy phase of
life. And
Chris (00:12):
by the way, because this is all about feeling less alone,
what we want most is to connectwith you
Morgan (00:18):
absolutely. So take a few seconds and visit the
midlife mud.com and join ourcommunity, and you'll stay up to
date on all the dirt, and, evenbetter, become a part of the
conversation. We can't wait tosee you there.
Chris (00:30):
All right, tighten those boots and let's get muddy. You.
Unknown (00:45):
Music. Welcome back to the mud,
Chris (00:47):
back to life, back to reality. I
Morgan (00:52):
thought you were gonna say something muddy, damn it.
Well, I'm coming in hot today.
Oh, like your daughter. Like mydaughter, yeah. So we just got
back from this ski trip inVermont, which I lived, I
survived. I'm so excited, yes,and there was a lot of bruh
happening with my teenagers, butI don't know, like, you know
that feeling when you get backfrom a trip and you're just
(01:12):
trying to get caught up. Ofcourse, we had to extend it an
extra day because we got snowedin. So your second ski day,
which I did not participate inbecause I can only commit to
one. Was like extreme sportsskiing, wasn't it? Well,
Chris (01:25):
I don't think an extreme sport skier would call it that,
but we did, and I felt like Iwas stuffed into a time capsule.
I think I turned into a teenageboy for at least, like three
hours.
Morgan (01:37):
It's because you were hanging out with three teenage
boys. I
Chris (01:40):
mean, we just had a freaking blast plowing down the
snowy mountains. It was likepowder day. There was probably
10 inches of fresh snow all ofthese moguls. And we just went
ripping through, hopping off thelittle moguls, and then we
stopped and waited for yourhusband.
Morgan (02:00):
Bless his heart. I really felt he had fun, though
he did. He had fun. He can'tkeep up with you guys, and I
certainly can. I don't even try.
But, you know, I was so proud ofyou. I mean, right? I was proud
of me. You did.
Chris (02:13):
You. You honestly made a lot of improvements over last
year. Yeah, I felt that way too,and I was so proud that you
overcame the mental block thatyou put on yourself about going
to the top of the mountain. Yes,
Morgan (02:27):
although I will say you are a bastard, because you're
like, Okay, we're just gonna goon this green. And I was like,
That green? Are you? Is thatreally green, or is it blue? And
you're like, it's green, and Icould tell there was a little
hint of
Chris (02:44):
there is actually like a double bastard move, which was
the only way that you could getto lunch was by doing that blue
run. And
Morgan (02:53):
it was just mean, because there we are. We had
gotten done with the green part,and all of a sudden it's like,
Wait, it's really steep here,and I'm gonna die, and you're
like, lunch is right down there.
So let's just, you don't, don'teven, don't even look.
Chris (03:06):
Just Just go. I was so proud of you. Anyway,
Morgan (03:10):
let's get started with today's today's topic. Something
really exciting. Uh oh, wow.
Chris (03:18):
Buckle up. V, E, R n, burn. Wasn't that short circuit?
Morgan (03:25):
That's a good question.
But today, we wanted to talkabout something really
important. Really a lot of thisepisode is gonna be coming from
you. Chris, right. Yeah. So wereally have been talking a lot
lately, you know, off the show,with each other, about how when
we were younger, at least, weare aware now of us choosing,
maybe not so consciously, butchoosing to kind of walk away
(03:47):
from ourselves in a way. Wefound ways to cope with life
that took us away from who wereally are. And it wasn't until
more recently, in midlife, thatthat became unsustainable for
Chris (04:02):
us. And here's the thing at the time, I didn't even think
about it as walking away. Oh, ofcourse not. I just thought,
yeah, this is, this is the wayyou walk,
Morgan (04:10):
right? This is what you do. This is what feels safest.
It's the retrospective, exactly,yeah. But then what you realize
is the cost that's coming withit, and it's just harder and
harder to do the older you getand the more experienced in life
you get, yeah. And so it's likeBrene Brown says midlife is like
the universe taking you by theear and saying, I'm not fucking
(04:33):
around. You're halfway to deadAmen. And let's not, let's not
do this anymore, right? And sowe wanted to talk a little bit
about our own personal journeyswith this sort of peeling back
the layers of armor that we'veput on, and this return home to
ourselves, because we've saidbefore, the backbone of this
show is really authenticity. Sothese episodes are going to be
(04:56):
about our journey to reconnectwith our own authenticity. Yeah,
right. Is there anything that Ineed to add to that?
Chris (05:02):
Well, it's also an opportunity just to talk a
little bit more about ourselvesand our story, right, which
Morgan (05:08):
feels i Man, every time you say it, I'm like, Oh, that
feels self indulgent. Like, whywould anybody care? But really,
what we're trying to do, it'snot like, oh, let's me, me, me,
me. It really is a way ofinviting you in being vulnerable
and relating. Because I think alot of the stuff that we have
done is stuff that that a lot ofpeople do in life.
Chris (05:30):
So Mel Robbins has a new book out called let them, and
I've been listening to it onaudiobook, and she talks about
friendships. And in a way, theway that I look at what we're
doing here is, is buildingfriends, building a community,
yeah, and part of that isspending time together. And she
cites some research in therethat even to be a casual friend,
(05:53):
it takes 74 hours. That's a lotof time. It's a lot of time. So
in three years, we'll befriends. But I only bring that
up because the intention of thisis to spend time, yeah, as we
would our friends, and part ofthat is sharing the stories
Morgan (06:09):
absolutely and and that is a two way street it stands
that we invite you to share withus. You know, if you haven't
signed up for for ournewsletter, that's a way to
communicate with us and to kindof know what's going on. And
really what we're wanting to dois is hear about you and your
life. What experiences do weshare as a group? So with all of
(06:30):
that said, I'm going to kind ofturn the floor over to Chris so
he can talk more about this, andthe next episode, I will be
sharing a little bit about me.
Chris (06:38):
So this is really a story of Homecoming. It's a story of
kind of unraveling a way thatI've been doing things for most
of my adult life and then risingfrom that. But in order to
really talk about that, I feellike I've got to go back to the
beginning, not the verybeginning, but kind of the
(06:59):
adolescent zone of my life,where things are getting ready
to launch for me and reallytaking shape. And it's really,
it's interesting how in thattime between 12 and 20, how much
happens, and at the time, youdon't even realize what a mark
that makes no not at all for thetrajectory of your adult life.
(07:19):
But it really, really does. Sowhat I've done is thought about
four stories now realize it goesa lot deeper than that, but I
think these four stories arekind of areas of my life will
help to define that arc that Italked about, where I kind of
walk away a little bit frommyself and develop these
adaptive patterns for living,and then realized sometime later
(07:42):
that maybe I should revisit thatwhole thing, right? So the first
story is November, 1992 I alsogave each story a name. What
Morgan (07:52):
was the top song in 1992 in November? I'm gonna Google
it. Okay. Oh, how do you talk toan angel?
Chris (08:00):
Oh, my God, really, you talk to an angel? Yeah, all
right. So now we're all back in1992 so at that time, I was 15
years old, and had beenstruggling for some time at
home, and things had kind ofcome to a head, yeah, with mom
and dad and me, where mom anddad had made the decision that
(08:23):
they just I think that it wasreally a safety call. They were
afraid and they didn't know whatto do,
Morgan (08:29):
which, by the way, I can relate to now.
Chris (08:31):
I can totally relate and in telling this story, mom, dad,
if you're listening, in no waydo I want you to feel bad about
this because you made the choicethat you felt like you needed to
make at the time, and myperspective as a 15 year old was
I didn't know what the fuck wasgoing on, either. And one cloudy
day, we went to the Louisvilleairport as a family. You were
(08:54):
there. Mom and Dad were there,and a friend of mine that I
still know, and he now is myfinancial advisor was also
there. He was that I don'tremember, yes, he's in a picture
that dad just uncovered not toolong ago. And I had no idea on
that day the magnitude of whatwas about to happen. But
(09:15):
essentially, mom and dad sent meaway and told me it was only for
a couple of weeks, and I wasgone for two and a half years,
the formative years of yourlife, yeah. And in that span of
time, two and a half years, Iwas in Louisville, a total of, I
don't know, 14 days or somethinglike that, over the course of
three trips, right? And, well,let's go back to the airport for
(09:38):
just a second. Every time I passthat gate, I still physically am
taken back a little bit to thatmoment. There was so much grief
with that. I mean, even at theaspect of leaving for two weeks,
there was something that felt sobig about that, like I felt
terrible. I felt like I justwanted to take it back so that
everything could be okay and Icould just stay home. Home, and
(10:00):
things could just be all right.
And it was the grief of losingmom and dad and you and
everything that I knew, yeah.
Morgan (10:08):
And it really was a very for the family. It was like this
turbulent time, right? And it
Chris (10:14):
was right before fucking Thanksgiving. I mean, literally,
two weeks before something likethat. And so I get on a plane
and go to the other side of thecountry, and six weeks later,
I'm sitting in Oregon, thestate, Oregon, not like a piano.
And
Morgan (10:34):
okay, so we're not in an organ. We're not
Chris (10:36):
in an organ of the body or at a musical instrument.
Morgan (10:39):
We're in the North Pacific Northwest, right? We're
at the Pacific Northwest.
Chris (10:44):
And you know, do you ever have those moments where they
are so profoundly emotional thatyou remember these weird details
very vividly? Yeah, it was asunny day. There was like three
feet of snow on the ground. Iwas at this boarding school in
rural Oregon that was in themiddle of nowhere, literally,
there was not a town for 26miles in either direction. And
(11:07):
even then, those towns were verysmall, and they were just snow
banks piled up all over theplace. And I was wearing this
long sleeved green cotton tshirt with a hood in it, and I
was about to make my first phonecall home with my mentor at the
school at the time, and I wasn'tallowed to have any unsupervised
(11:29):
calls, and we're hovered over adesk. She's on one side, I'm on
the other side, and I'm onspeakerphone talking to mom and
dad, and I can just rememberthat the voice inside of me
said, Chris, just tell thetruth. Tell them what happened.
Tell them that a lot of thethings that were really
happening didn't happen, whichwas actually the truth, and that
(11:51):
you just want to come home andthings will be different. And I
told them all of those things,and I was very honest with them
and authentic. And what I wasmet with at the time was we
can't trust you, and you're notcoming home. And that's kind of
the way it is. And I don't knowexactly what they said, but
(12:11):
that's what I registered fromit. Yeah, and I remember feeling
like something broke inside ofme, and I went to this other
room in the same building thatwas adjoining the office, and
sat on a green couch and justbawled, yeah, for like, two
hours, I didn't know what Iwould do. I just felt
(12:32):
overwhelmed. And I remembertaking a deep breath at some
point and just deciding, okay,Chris, you're just gonna have to
suck it up and figure out a wayto move forward here, because
nobody's gonna
Morgan (12:45):
help. Yeah, what was the dominating feeling sitting on
that couch, bawling?
Chris (12:49):
I just felt abandoned, Yeah, completely abandoned. And
I felt like I had been put in aworld where I was just gonna
have to be alone. And I alsofelt like I showed up as myself,
and that's what it was met with,right? Like, the takeaway for
me, and it wasn't this clear,obviously, is I shouldn't really
risk being that vulnerable.
That's not the way. I need to begood. I need to be seen as good
(13:12):
and just not have this happenagain. So the next bunch of my
life went forward. And, like Isaid, there's a lot of stories
in here along the way, but onepervasive theme, I think, is
that that bit of vulnerabilityand that authenticity that comes
with vulnerability Wasn't therea lot of the time, right? So I
(13:32):
carry on with my life, and youknow, I go through a little
brief window of time where I wasclose to being really authentic,
and that's when I was doing alot of the Outdoor Leadership
work and work with kids, andthen I quickly kind of veered
back into a different zone ofnot being as authentic and
(13:54):
trying to kind of fit myselfinto a mold of what I projected
as being successful, which meantbeing married, having kids,
having a career, having materialthings. Those were the things
that I identified as successful,and none of them I really
attached to being authentic.
Morgan (14:12):
Yeah, it's not that you can't do those things
authentically. It's just thatwhen you're doing it from a
place of trying to fit into amold, right? It's you risk not
being authentic while you'redoing it.
Chris (14:22):
And I really think that inadvertently or subconsciously,
I just hadn't connected theimportance of being authentic.
In fact, I think somehow,without really consciously doing
it, I had connected that Ishouldn't be authentic.
Morgan (14:37):
Yeah, it probably wasn't as cut and dry in front of mind.
No, yeah, you're deep downsomewhere in there. It's like,
oh no. Bad plan. Bad plan.
Abort. Abort. That plan.
Chris (14:49):
So flashing forward now to November of 2019 so I'm at a
point where I have two kids thatare 15 and 13. Divorced with
some conflict for a number ofyears, eight to nine years, I
had gotten to a place at workwhere I was a director level in
(15:11):
a large healthcare systemcompany that employs like 35,000
people climbing the ladder,climbing the ladder, and doing
all the things. And you know,life was feeling just really
stressful. In some ways, I feltaccomplished, like I had made my
goal at work, or at least I wason the way to making my goal,
which at one point was to be avice president, and I had kids,
(15:34):
and I I love my kids, and Ireally try as hard as I can to
love them in the way that I knowhow, and so I would count that
as somewhat of a success. Butthere had been a lot of conflict
back and forth and unrest, andwe kind of we got to this point
where I was standing in thegarage of my girlfriend's house,
(15:57):
and now she has two kids too,which I'm really involved in
their lives as well, and we aregetting ready to decorate for
Christmas. And at that time, mykids would come over every other
weekend, kind of a standard coparenting arrangement, right?
And they would spend some periodof the weekend with us. And I
(16:18):
remember that on that weekend,my oldest, who was 15, hadn't
been coming, and she wanted tocome at the last minute, and I
asked her if we could just wait
Morgan (16:28):
and she hadn't been coming because of some conflict,
right? Because of some conflict,
Chris (16:32):
yeah, and, you know, there were therapists involved
in different folks, and I hadjust asked if we could wait and
talk about this with thetherapist to kind of come up
with a plan. And what happenedwas she got really upset, and
there was never any meeting withthe therapist. And the next
thing that I got was, I wantspace from you. And that turned
(16:55):
into, I haven't really seen hersince 2019 Yeah,
Unknown (16:59):
and it's 2024 right?
2025 actually, shit, shit. Yeah,it's 2025
Morgan (17:05):
well. And back to the like, these are formative years
for her formative
Chris (17:09):
years, and and what I find so sad and tragic is like
it just that's the age that Iwas. Yeah, it's a weird circle,
and the circumstances aredifferent, but it's just eerie
how history repeats itself.
Yeah, this sort of cyclicnature. And there was never any
closure for anybody in thatscenario, really, for her, for
me. And so that happened inNovember, and then in August of
(17:33):
2020, several months later, Igot laid off from my big job. So
yeah, I'm already spinning alittle bit, and then this
happens, and it really justknocks me off balance a lot, and
it has me totally recalculatingeverything. And I remember,
before I lost that job, therewas a woman that I kind of
(17:56):
looked at as a mentor, who, atthat time was a vice president,
then she went on to be a seniorvice president at a different
company, and we would have theseone to ones. And I really liked
her. She was very personable,and I felt like authentic. And I
remember saying to her on morethan one occasion, I will never
go back to physical therapy. Andhere I was being forced to go
(18:17):
back to physical therapy. I hadto, like it was my means of a
living. Yeah,
Morgan (18:24):
what did that? What did you make it mean to have to go
back to physical therapy afterhaving said, I will never do
that? Oh, it
Chris (18:30):
felt like a failure. I was embarrassed, because not
only did I go back to physicaltherapy, but I went back to
physical therapy within thecompany that I had been kind of
elevated in so all the peoplethat before had sort of seen me
climb into this position havenow seen me fall out of it,
yeah, and so every time I wentto a meeting, every time that I
(18:53):
was put on the spot to talk, Iliterally got a dry mouth. I
literally got a stress like astrong stress response, because
I felt like I was an imposter,and that I had been called out,
yeah,
Morgan (19:06):
and you're living that daily, every day, yeah. And
Chris (19:10):
then I got back into a position where I was literally
working in the same office,managing. It was a different
team of people. It's actually avery difficult team of people,
all wonderful people, but itwasn't a very healthy work
environment, and I ended upgetting back into a position
where I was managing them, and Ithink a lot about why did I
(19:30):
agree to do that? And I remembertalking with the guy that hired
me to do that job, who I hadknown for like, 10 years, and
interviewing with him. And evenas I was interviewing, I didn't
really want the job. The thingthat compelled me to take it was
my ego. I felt like I needed tobe in a leadership position. It
Morgan (19:49):
sounds like there was so much of your identity wrapped
up, your worth was wrapped up inthat yes,
Chris (19:57):
and that goes back to like, what did I. To build all
this on,
Morgan (20:01):
right? Because if you admit that you built all this on
something that was faulty, thenyou have to look at everything.
And that's really fucking scary,right? Yeah? But,
Chris (20:09):
you know, here's the takeaway from kind of this era
of life, 2019, and 2020, wasthat on multiple levels, my
family life and my work life,there was this yellow zone going
on this blinking light. Hello,your approach is becoming
unsustainable, hazardous,
Morgan (20:28):
right? So then what?
Yeah, so what else started tocome into play here. So
Chris (20:33):
now a little bit of time goes on, and I'm just in that
uncomfortable seat, right thatwe just talked about all day,
every day, all day, every day.
I'm mourning the loss of mydaughter. I'm really wanting to
try to reconnect. I'm feelinglike I don't know how to do
that. And and then things atwork are just coming down right,
and I'm trying to just kind ofduct tape them back together,
(20:54):
but to not really a lot ofsuccess. I'm not feeling
satisfied. And then August 2021like a year after I got laid
off, and I'm managing this otherclinic my buddy Jamie calls now.
Jamie is that guy for me that iswith me for life. You know how
some friends are just with youfor life? He's the ride or die.
(21:16):
He's the guy, right? I don'texactly know why, but in that
little brief window of time thatI described where I was kind of
being my authentic self,following the leadership and
outdoor work, and that's where Imet Jamie, and we spent way
fucking more than 74 hourstogether, doing really intense
outdoor stuff with other people.
(21:37):
And I think it just solidified abond that was probably naturally
already there on some organiclevel. And he has sort of come
in and out of my life. He'salways been there in some level.
And he calls me up and he hesays, I think we need to go on a
trip. And I want to take you,like, up to the chick chocks. I
do this trip every couple years.
And the chick chocks is a littlepeninsula in northern Quebec on
(22:00):
the St Lawrence waterway. It'snorth. It's way north. Yeah, way
way north. And this little partof me lit up when I got that
phone call, like, oh my gosh,
Morgan (22:12):
really, because I just died inside.
Chris (22:16):
It took me away from all of those stresses that we were
just talking about with work andfamily and and it, it opened up
that door of of adventure forme. It
Morgan (22:26):
was the real you going, Oh, I get to come out and play,
Chris (22:30):
yes, like, where you you've locked me away and
breathe, I know. And so this isfunny. I walk upstairs and I
said, Honey, Jamie just called.
I really want to go on this backcountry adventure trip. And she
looked at me, like, physicallyup and down, and said, Well,
honey, that's great, but you'vegot a lot of work to do. Like,
(22:52):
I'm afraid that you might have aheart attack if you actually try
to do that right now. God blessher for her honesty. She is,
yeah, she wasn't wrong. She waskind of supportive, actually, in
her tone. And I did, like, Iworked really hard to go on that
trip. I worked out. I lost like30 pounds, I got stronger. It
really served as a driver forme. It was something that I put
(23:17):
on the calendar, and it kept megoing, helped me kind of march
forward. And I hadn't had avision that was really driven by
that more authentic explorer inme, first since I could
remember, like, since my early20s. And so that's what that ski
trip was for me. I bought allthis new gear, which is always
(23:37):
fun to buy a new gear. Oh, myGod, you wouldn't shut up about
it for like, a year, I would notshut up. Yeah, like it was
really the thing that kept megoing for a long time. And I
drove to Maine, it was actuallythis time of year, and I packed
up the car with all my stuff,drove up there and met Jamie and
a couple of other people, and westuffed the car full of stuff
(24:00):
like we could barely move. Wehad so much gear and food and
things, and just drove 12 hoursthrough New Brunswick, which is
this snowy land. There was snowremoval equipment there that I
had never even imaginedpossible. I mean, things like
the size of garages that wouldmove snow banks. It was amazing.
(24:20):
And we put on all kinds ofmusic. I mean, it was sort of
this really epic trip for me.
And we got there, and the firstcouple days were great. The
third and fourth day, we didsome stuff that was really hard,
and I had never been backcountry skiing before, and we
were climbing, and when youclimb on skis, it's a lot
(24:43):
different than going downhill.
And I was struggling and keptfalling down and getting stuck
in snow, like literally up to mychest, and it was very humbling,
like, back to asking for help.
There was one moment at the endof one of those days where the
rest of the group was like,we're. Ready to go. They just
wanted to go out and go biggerand go a little higher than we
(25:05):
had gone before, and go a littlebit steeper. And as everybody
was gearing up ready to go, Ilooked at Jamie and said, Hey, I
don't want to do this. I don'twant to Yeah, and we just do,
like, a little bit easier andmeet the other people. And for
me to even do that huge, oh myGod, it was fucking huge. And
(25:26):
the thing is, like I wasn'tdoing that anywhere in my life,
like I needed help everywhere inmy life, and I wasn't asking for
it, right? I was just layeringup one thing after another to
just either avoid or delay.
Morgan (25:43):
And it gets so heavy, so
Chris (25:45):
heavy, yeah? So so heavy.
You know, I think one of thethings that I did to distract
myself was just pour, pourmyself into work. And then when
work broke down, I started todrink a lot, yeah? And at first
it was, you know, here andthere, but a lot more than
usual, here and there, and thenit just, kind of like the frog
boiling in water just became alot more here than there, until
(26:09):
it was just a present force inmy life. And I didn't know how
to get away from that, andnobody really knew what was
going on, because I wasn'tasking for help,
Morgan (26:19):
right? You were always so good at, like, keeping all of
this sort of underneath thesurface. That
Chris (26:24):
was my thing. That's right. And in fact, people
recognize me for it, like,you're always so good at just
keeping everything together, andyou're so relaxed. And I'm like,
I'm not fucking relaxed, I'mfreaking out. So on that day
when I asked Jamie to just takea different route down the hill.
That was all I was asking for inthe moment, but it did sort of
(26:44):
unlock something about the ideaof asking for help. For me, it
became more conscious for methat I needed to do that somehow
in a bigger way. But I wasn'tready to do it yet, so I just
packed up after that ski tripand went home and kind of
(27:05):
continued doing the same thingfor a little while longer. But
there was the key takeaway thatI wanted something different,
but I was really fucking scaredand didn't know what to do and
how to get to that next thing.
Morgan (27:17):
Yeah, but suddenly there was the awareness that you
wanted something different,that's
Chris (27:21):
right. And it became palpable that I wanted something
different, that I didn't want tokeep going on the same path, but
I still felt like I had no ideahow I was gonna, like, redirect.
Yeah. So at that point, I thinkthat was February of 2023, so a
few more months go by and we'rein the magical month of November
(27:44):
again, and now my youngestdaughter is, guess what? Age?
Morgan (27:50):
Yeah, 1514, 1514. 1515, yeah, yeah. God dang
Chris (27:55):
it. I mean, it's like, it's crazy. When I went to put
this story together, I was like,What in the who, who wrote this
story universe, what is goingon? And so it's, it's the
Breeders Cup, which, for somereason, horse racing kind of
became a thing as a family. Wewould usually, when there's a
(28:16):
big race like that, Breeders CupDerby, we'd have a little party.
So my youngest daughter, shekept coming to visit every other
weekend, or was at that time,and it was her weekend to come.
And I remember in the beginningof the day, we went to look at
Ski stuff, ironically, and I hadbought her a new pair of boots,
(28:39):
and we were really excited aboutthat, and it was kind of a great
deal. And she expressed that shewas excited about it, and her
feet were finally big enoughthat they had stopped growing,
and she could start having herown equipment now. And so we did
that, and came home, and Icooked kebabs for the family,
and we had some friends comeover, and at that time, not
(29:00):
unlike many teenage kids that Iknow, including yours, she's was
on her screen a lot watchingTiktok, and yeah, you know, but
that's not particularly unusual.
And she had talked about havingsome stress around some things,
but again, nothing like hugelyout of the ordinary. And I was
standing at the sink doing thedishes, and she came up and
(29:23):
said, You know, I want to gohome. And it was her night to
stay there. And she said, I wantto go home, you know, right now.
And I just like, froze. I gothit with this wave of like
paralyzed emotion, because Iimmediately went back to
standing in the garage lookingfor Christmas stuff several
(29:45):
years before, right? It
Morgan (29:48):
was like PTSD from your oldest daughter. Was there
always part of you that thoughtit's only a matter of time
before this happens. It was my
Chris (29:55):
biggest fear. Yeah, like, I don't know if I thought it
would happen or not, but I know.
Told that it was my biggestfear. Yeah, I was really afraid
of it happening. I was afraid ofit happening the first time, and
then that happened, and then nowI was afraid of it happening the
next time. And I had worked sohard in my life as a parent to
try to control this from nothappening, which is like control
(30:16):
is an illusion, but I reallydidn't want it to happen, right?
And I think that in my fear, Ialmost evolved it to happen,
some
Morgan (30:27):
of this layering on, this trying to avoid a certain
path, you know, like this wasthe thing you were scared of,
and so all of your actions withyour daughters were born out of
protecting yourself and thatrelationship, right?
Chris (30:43):
And in doing so, I wasn't always authentic, right? And I
had been layering on all kindsof shit. And I'm sure that in
their own way, they could seethat, oh, yeah, they're
perceptive, right? Which is akind of a tragedy in itself,
yeah? And then there's kind ofno time to unpack it, because
Morgan (31:03):
she did ultimately do the same thing, estrange herself
from you, yeah, like,
Chris (31:07):
since that night, with the exception of one or two
conversations, I haven't talkedto her at her request. You know,
she she's asked for space, andI'm respecting that. But dang
it, that was the moment like Ithought, like, that was it? My
biggest fear happened. Themonster came out of the closet
and said, Hi, I'm here to eatyou right now. And I laid in bed
(31:30):
and ached physically to thebone. And I remember the next
morning, the family got up andwent to church, and I couldn't
go. I felt sick, and I called myboss later that week. I wasn't
sleeping. I still had thedrinking problem, and it just
got worse, because now I wasn'teating, I wasn't sleeping, and I
said, I'm going through somestuff and and he just said, your
(31:54):
mental health is the number oneimportant thing, so just do what
you have to do, like, if youneed to take time, just take the
time. Like, take leave. And someautopilot in me took over and
said, Yeah, that's a good idea.
We're gonna do that. Like, Idon't even know that it was me.
I'm not sure what took over atthat point, but some deep part
of me said, Yeah, we're gonnasit down and do this right now.
(32:15):
I
Morgan (32:17):
have this image of you, because up until that point, you
were so desperately grasping andtrying to control and and now
that the scariest thing hadhappened, there was nothing to
hold on to anymore, and like,there's this free falling visual
that I have in that time, youknow. And
Chris (32:37):
the hardest thing, one of the hardest things, was that I
had, I had this whole life, andI felt like I didn't want to
just throw out my life and runaway from it, but I also knew
that I needed to hit the pausebutton hard and just regroup.
Well,
Morgan (32:55):
it's back to what you said earlier about the
foundation, right? There was amajor fucking crack in the
foundation, major
Chris (33:02):
fucking crack. And it wasn't like something that I
could just fill it in with somespackle and right? I had to,
like, drill out the foundationand report, yeah, and
Morgan (33:12):
not knowing what whatever you're gonna build is
gonna look like after that, likeyou just gotta rebuild the
foundation, right?
Chris (33:18):
So the takeaway from that was that it's wake up time.
Morgan (33:24):
Yeah, in the most extreme way, in the most extreme
way. Well, I mean, maybe not themost but in a very extreme way.
Your story is a very extremeversion of this whole midlife
calling to come back toyourself. Yes,
Chris (33:40):
yeah. Because, you know, I had reached a point where it
really felt like life or deathfor me, if I did not make this
decision, I was gonna dieyounger. Yeah, and that, maybe
that's dramatic, and maybe it'snot, but that's the way it felt.
It felt that important. So
Morgan (33:57):
here I am. Where are you now? What is what is here? Well,
Chris (34:01):
I'm just trying to live the most authentic life that I
can, and the new foundationreally comes from a place of who
is Chris at his core, and nowbuild your life around that and
the micronutrients from all ofthis stuff. Like, as I sat down
and thought about like, what,what are the takeaways, I came
(34:21):
up with three things. One thingis that I have a special thing
to bring to the world, but Ican't do it unless I show up as
my authentic self. And in simpleterms, what I call that is a
creative explorer. Creative
Morgan (34:36):
explorer. I'm getting you a t shirt that says that,
okay, I would love that.
Chris (34:41):
The second thing that I came up with is that there are
no shortcuts to authenticity. Ittakes grit and it takes leaning
in to really scary anduncomfortable things. And for
me, that was staring down a skihill in the middle of wilderness
of Canada and it was also beingmet with the best. Biggest fear
of my life, actually happening,actually happening. And you
(35:05):
know, as alluring asdistractions can be, which for
me were all of the above, screentime, work, alcohol,
relationships, romantic, love,all of those things they may
offer, the allure of immediaterelief, but they're dead ends.
Yeah, they're dead ends and so,like, that's not part of my
(35:25):
foundation, yeah, not anymore.
And I'm not perfect, like hell.
You know, I do pick up my screenand
Morgan (35:31):
hell no, you're not. I'm not fucking perfect. But if you
if you had to go back to your 15year old self sitting on that
couch sobbing after that phonecall in in a sentence or two,
what would you say to yourselfin that moment?
Chris (35:47):
I know you're hurting, but don't stop being yourself.
Yeah. Like, show up again. Justkeep showing up. Yeah,
Morgan (35:53):
that's rich stuff.
There's so much there. And it isinteresting when you when you
look at it that way of like,what were the points in my life
when I started to pile on thearmor or abandon myself in some
way, my true self, to protectmyself and for every good reason
in the book, like it's notthere's no judgment for doing
that. I think we all do it to anextent, but inevitably you will
(36:15):
reach a point. Hello, midlife,when it is just not sustainable
anymore. And then you have achoice to make, you know, and is
that choice to lean into thefear of the unknown, of what
happens when you let go of allof that, or is it to really
double down on these, you know,maladaptive coping mechanisms,
right? And I think what you andI are saying by doing this
(36:37):
podcast, and just in the waythat we're living our lives is
that we're in for the unknown.
It's scary as hell, but we webuy into it now. We believe in
the value of it, yeah, and inthe value of ourselves, of what
we really have to offer. Well,
Chris (36:52):
in that that kind of leads me to the third takeaway,
values, yeah, back to valuingmyself, but also having values
for myself. And one of thethings that I really learned to
do in this period of time, inthe last couple years, and it
was crazy, like a couple yearsago, I sat down for the first
(37:16):
time, somebody asked me, Chris,like, here's a bunch of cards
with words on them, literally,like 60 flashcards with
different words on them. Pickout the ones that are your
values. And I was like, What?
What do you mean? It was fuckinghard for me to do that. It was
hard for me to do that, and Ihad never really spent time with
it. And how eye opening was thatfor me, and
Morgan (37:39):
by values, we don't mean, like, what everyone thinks
you should do or care about, orno, like,
Chris (37:44):
what does Chris Peterson think is really important? Like,
what are your what do you wakeup in the morning and it drives
you. It's such a wonderful toolto be able to say, like, these
are what my values are. Andthen, on a day to day basis, all
I really have to do in a givenmoment is just do a little cross
(38:05):
check. Am I acting consistentlywith my values right now? And
that's it like, that's how you
Morgan (38:11):
stay authentic. That's right, yeah. And that that's my
roadmap, yeah. So even ifthere's the unknown and even if
it's scary, at least you knowyou're in alignment with what
matters to you,
Chris (38:22):
right? And even if it's a bunch of stuff that I can't
control, I can always control myreactions, being within my
values. Yes, that's it. I mean,it's not always feeling that
simple.
Morgan (38:36):
It's not easy. We didn't say it was easy, but, holy crap.
But that's, that's, that's whereyou are right now, right? And
that compared to a year and ahalf ago is markedly different,
markedly. You know, I havewatched you totally flip your
life upside down and rebuild,yeah, and you seem, I won't
(38:56):
speak for you, but you seem somuch more genuinely content and
peaceful, even with the shitthat's going on all the time,
right? Like there's still plentyof shit going on, still plenty
of mud, but there's a peace thatyou have now, you know, and it
exudes from you. And I feel likeyou know our relationship has
gotten so much closer as aresult of that. So I just want
(39:19):
to acknowledge the courage thatI know it took to do that,
because not there aren't manypeople that could do it in that
way, and you did like I'vewatched you do it, so major
kudos.
Chris (39:30):
I appreciate that, and I'm super grateful for the
people that I've had around mein my life that have been
supportive. And the other thingthat I would say just quickly in
wrapping this up, is for a longtime, especially when I got to
that the last couple yearsbefore what I called wake up
time in November of 2023 I livedin fear that if I showed up and
(39:55):
was honest about where I was andreally asked for the help that.
I needed from the people that Icounted on that they would walk
away, yeah. And I think that wasthe 15 year old on the couch,
yes. And the thing is, nobodywalked away. And in doing what I
did, I walked towards people,and it just became very clear
(40:19):
that nobody was really everwalking away, except for me, I
was the one walking away, yeah,
Morgan (40:24):
because you had it in your head, you were meant to be
alone, right? And you're not,that's right, and neither is
anybody else, no, for thatmatter. And so that's, that's
part of why we tell this, thisstory. That's why we're telling
about ourselves. Because, youknow, if you are out there
experiencing something similar,feeling alone, feeling like you
built your life on a foundationthat has a huge crack in it, or
(40:46):
whatever it may be, you're notalone. I
Chris (40:48):
mean, damn it, that's in our intro. Yeah, that's the
purpose of this show,
Morgan (40:53):
that is, was what we're doing. We want to be here as a
as a community, to understandthat we're not alone. None of us
are any closing remarks.
Chris (41:02):
Thank you for listening and
Morgan (41:04):
get ready for my shit show next time. All right. Well,
yeah, we'll see you next time inthe mud.
Chris (41:17):
Thanks for being with us in the mud today.
Morgan (41:19):
If you liked this episode. Do us a HUGE favor and
subscribe to the show. This isgoing to make sure you never
miss an episode, and it's goingto help us grow our muddy
community, which would mean theworld to us. See you
Chris (41:30):
next time in the mud you
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.