June 24, 2025 • 26 mins
This episode of The Midlife Mud is all about resentment—that sneaky, simmering emotion that drains your energy, messes with your relationships, and makes you feel like the world owes you something.
Morgan and Chris break down where resentment comes from (think: unmet expectations, shaky boundaries, and self-abandonment), how to spot it, and how to start letting it go. With real-life stories, some uncomfortable truths, and a few laughs, they're figuring out how to stop dragging that emotional deadweight through midlife.
Because holding onto resentment doesn’t make you strong—it just makes you tired.
Ready to get muddy? Join our community!
Mentioned in this episode:
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:00):
So today we're gonna open up with a little story. I think
that we were 23 and maybe youwere 19 or 24 and 20, I don't
know, somewhere in that time oflife, and I can recall coming
home. And at the time, I wasliving in New England, and I
would travel back and forth tocome home, but I was visiting
(00:23):
for only a very short period oftime, and we were all going to
go out to dinner, and youwouldn't go to dinner with us.
You didn't want to go. No, Idon't want to go. Bring me some
spinach queso, but I'm notgoing, and I was so resentful at
you for that I'm in town foronly a short amount of time. She
(00:44):
doesn't, she's just gonna sit inher fucking house and watch TV
and she doesn't even want tospend time. And like, I was
really fired up,
Morgan (00:52):
yeah, that's so wild, because I had no idea,
Chris (00:57):
like, I stewed over it for a couple days, which is wild
for me to revisit that now,because I'm like, what you need
to chill out like I would neverreact like that now. So today's
topic is
Morgan (01:12):
resentment. Ooh, this one's juicy, yes. Why are we
talking about
Chris (01:15):
it? Because I think that resentment is one of those
things that can move in to lifeand just color everything. It's
Morgan (01:23):
like a cancer. It can be and if you don't acknowledge and
deal with it, it can really fuckwith things. It
Chris (01:32):
also back to the idea of energy as a finite resource in
life. God dang it. This willjust suck energy out of
everything. Do
Morgan (01:42):
you have stories of resentment other than the hating
my guts for wanting spinachqueso?
Chris (01:48):
Well, I'll pick on you one more time. I don't know if
you even remember this. So nowI'm going way, way, way, way
back. Do you remember when wehad the little kiddie pool on
the back patio area? Yes, I meanwe might be like eight and four
now, and I had this stuffed bearthat I just loved, this stuffed
(02:08):
bear, and you decided, no, no,you didn't mean to you were very
innocently and sweetly, wantedto give the bear a bath. And so
he put it in the pin the pooland totally ruined it. And that
one, like, I didn't really like,it's funny, because the memory
is different than the Queso likethat one, I just remember maybe
(02:30):
there was a little bit ofresentment, but I think actually
I was just really sad anddisappointed that the bear got
ruined and I was mad at you. ButI think the predominant thing
was feeling that sadness well.
And
Morgan (02:42):
that brings up an interesting point, what actually
is resentment? And how do youhow do you know it's resentment?
Resentment
Chris (02:48):
is a funny thing, and it can pop up everywhere. Have you
ever heard that saying that anexpectation is a resentment
waiting to be born? It's true. Ilove that. One
Morgan (02:59):
thing that comes to mind for me is that resentments can
look like sort of an abandoningof yourself when I think of a
resentment, and the times that Ihave had resentment, most often,
not all the time, but most oftenthe reason it's there is because
I failed to set some sort ofboundary, or enforce a boundary
(03:20):
that I have not holding true tomyself, right? There's often a
role that I play in theresentment that can be really
painful sometimes to admit, youknow, but that's one of the
things, when we starteddiscussing this topic for this
episode, is, ooh, I think a lotof times it's me again. It's not
to gaslight anybody, but what'smy part in it?
Chris (03:42):
Right? We gotta hear a story. I've got a lot of them
hit me. So,
Morgan (03:47):
for instance, I have a friend, very good friend. There
was a phase in our friendshipwhere I was kind of becoming the
therapist friend. Yep, all ofour conversations I was
spending, I mean, inordinateamounts of time talking with her
on the phone on a daily basisabout her stuff. And I would say
(04:07):
it was well beyond the I'm beingthe supportive friend. It was me
right, trying to fix her lifefor her, you know. And she was
really leaning into that, and Iwas really leaning into that to
an unhealthy degree. And itreached a point where it was
really frustrating for me,because anytime I gave her
advice, which I thought was justgreat advice, she wouldn't take
(04:29):
it, and then we'd be right backwhere we were in the beginning,
talking about the same thing.
And so I got really resentfulthat I was spending all this
time, my precious time, tryingto help her, and she wasn't
taking my help, you know what Imean? And it took a while. We
had kind of a blow upeventually, and sort of parted
ways for a while. And the moredistance I got from it, the more
(04:50):
I realized, Oh, honey, it's yourfault that you didn't set the
boundary. Yeah, it's her life.
Let her live her life. You canbe. A supportive friend without
giving all of that time andexpecting her to take your
advice on her life. And sincethat time, it's gotten a lot
(05:12):
better, like I know where theline is, and I hold it right,
and I don't have those feelingsat all anymore. Yeah, you know,
Chris (05:18):
going back to the Queso for a minute, one of the things
that was really underneath thatresentment for me, and it wasn't
just in the relationship withyou at that time, I spent a lot
of time, like calling people,maintaining relationships, and I
would do that, and I would setthat tone right. And there was
nothing wrong with setting thattone, but where things went
(05:41):
astray was that, in setting thattone, my expectation was that
you were going to
Morgan (05:46):
do it back right, and what that means if you do or
don't right. And
Chris (05:50):
so my expectation was I'm doing this, and therefore you're
going to you're going to call meback, and you're going to give
me what I gave you. And that'snot fair
Morgan (05:59):
well, and in that there is this unmet, unspoken need,
right, that you had, that'sright, I had no idea. Now
granted. Now I'm like, why thefuck wouldn't I have an idea?
And it is interesting to thinkwhat would have been different
if you had said, hey, it wouldmean a lot to me if you came
right? So a resentment can besome kind of need of yours
(06:19):
that's not being met well.
Chris (06:21):
And in that you brought up the word is boundary, right?
And learning how to establishthe boundaries, that's what that
is. And sometimes it ironically,it becomes easier and more
comfortable for me to be mad atyou about the fucking case out
then for me to say, Morgan, itwould mean a lot for me. You
(06:43):
would come and have this dinner,because I want to spend time
with you. And the reason whythat's hard is it's vulnerable,
and it's easier for me just toprotect myself. And this
resentment rage about thefucking queso,
Morgan (06:57):
there's something about resentment that really brings up
this concept of being in victimmode, victim
Chris (07:04):
comes up for me. And the other thing is protection,
Morgan (07:06):
yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is a self preserving
thing.
Chris (07:10):
Yeah, there's this indulgence to that, you know,
just like, I'm just gonna stayin my own little shell and fume
about it, feel like I wasvictimized. Yeah,
Morgan (07:20):
it's fine. I don't know why this came up just now in my
head. So have you watched fourseasons on Netflix? Oh my god,
that show was great. I have notfinished it yet, but the episode
where Tina Fey's character andher husband, they're at the
beach and, yeah, so Will Forte,like, goes out on the dance
(07:41):
floor with this, like, group ofyoung, hot girls or something,
and he's out there dancingaround, and she's sitting at the
table, and when he comes back tothe table, she, like, she just
throws a cup at his face. Yes,for some reason that
encapsulates resentment to me inlike, how many times in marriage
(08:06):
in particular, like these reallyold, comfortable, long standing
relationships, ooh, resentmentcan really breed there for a
long time.
Chris (08:16):
Yes, well, and to stay with that, their whole
relationship was infected withresentment in the four season
show, like, she threw a cup ofhis face, and then he, like, got
back at her because he resentedher for throwing the cup. Yeah?
But then there's, like, thisresentment one upmanship thing
that starts to happen.
Morgan (08:35):
Yeah? It's hard to figure out what's this really
about. It
Chris (08:39):
gets very foggy, and after a while of doing that,
you're like, I don't even I justknow I hate them. I'm just
pissed
Morgan (08:45):
off at that, right? Yes, why? Yeah. So I think there's
something valuable aboutrecognizing resentment early on,
yeah, so that you can manage it.
So
Chris (08:57):
one of the things that really came up for me in
preparing and kind of thinkingabout this is the 12 step
program. So, you know, in the 12steps, step four has to do with
taking a personal inventory.
Nowhere in the fourth step doesit say resentment. But actually,
when you really do the fourstep, what you do is you make a
(09:18):
little table, and you list thepeople that you're resentful to,
and then you write down why, andthen you write down like, what
did that thing affect? Like, didit affect my ambitions? Did it
affect, like, my personalrelationships? So you categorize
it. And back to the point ofthings getting foggy, that
(09:39):
exercise is certainly for me, itwas not fun, but wow, it's
really, really enlightening.
Because what happened to me is Iended up like sitting there, and
it was literally like holding amirror, like, Oh, there you are
again. Oh, there you are again.
Oh. Well, so what I realizedwas, oops, that was me.
Morgan (10:06):
Yeah, that's what I mean. And that's not to say that
there wasn't an impact on, Imean, that has a huge impact, or
that that another person isn'tat fault always, you know, or,
or have some, some sort of partin it, but you're right. Like,
where is it? I think theresentment comes the moment that
you compromise somehow orabandon yourself
Chris (10:28):
that's right. And even back to that concept, like, even
in the in the moments wheremaybe someone else is doing
something that's is not right,or whatever, you have the agency
to say, I don't want to do thatin most cases, right, right? But
it's harder sometimes, in thosemoments, to say, Yeah, I'm not
(10:49):
going to do this or or to say noto somebody, than it is to just
be quietly resentful. It's
Morgan (10:55):
uncomfortable. Sometimes I like the idea boundaries as a
way to sort of contain who wereally are. They're a big deal.
Chris (11:04):
Boundaries are just they're a hard concept for me.
You know, I remember one time Ican be a little simple, right?
So somebody took a whiteboardand drew like three stick
figures, and the first stickfigure, it was just a stick
figure. The second stick figurehad a circle drawn around it.
(11:25):
The third stick figure had adotted line. And so the first
picture no circle, just theperson, represents somebody with
no boundaries. That is a crazyfucking place to live. Crazy. Do
you know these people? Well, Iused to be one. I have a lot of
experience. I'm not sure how toput it on my resume, but it's
(11:48):
there. And then the second oneis lockdown mode, right? Which
sometimes is important. There'ssome things like, No, I'm not
doing that. Hard. No, yeah,hard. No. That's the second
picture. The third picture,though, they're all powerful,
but the third one was the ahamoment for me, the dotted line
is you approach something andyou're just not sure. So I need
(12:10):
more time to think about this,so you let it in temporarily,
and you process, what am I doingwith this? Am I gonna keep this
inside my circle or say, No,
Morgan (12:19):
that's a really healthy way to look at it, because
healthy boundaries serve youreally strict. Inflexible
boundaries can actually overprotect you, which can impact
your relationships and the waythat you live your life. You
have to revisit boundaries tosay, is this working for me?
Yeah,
Chris (12:37):
the challenge that I have had with boundaries is that I'm
going back and forth between thefirst picture and the second
picture. Like, no boundaries,locked down. Fuck you. Go away.
Oh, come on in. Like it there'sYeah. But back to the idea of
resentment. For me, when I startto feel a lot of resentments
(12:59):
creeping in, like, for me, thisis what it looks like I'm
driving down the road and I'mlike, fuck you. Why did you? Why
didn't you put your fuckingblinker? Like, the little things
will start to make me respond.
That's a yellow light for me.
Like, okay, sit down and thinkabout where you're at.
Morgan (13:16):
Do you ever do the thing? This is how I know I'm
getting resentful, where I starthaving a conversation with the
particular person in my head.
This is what I would say, andthis is how I'm gonna I'm, like,
arguing with the person in myhead.
Chris (13:27):
Yeah, it's not happening as much anymore, but that's a
definite flag. Like, when that'shappening, I need to sit down.
There's something that that I'mprobably not doing, that's
totally, by the way, to do withme, right? And that's the other
powerful thing about the threepictures, right? There's only
one person, yeah, in the threepictures, and it's me. You're
(13:49):
right.
Morgan (13:49):
And I think that's what distinguishes resentment versus
just run of the mill anger,yeah, what we do with the
Chris (13:57):
anger? Yeah, I think of anger as momentary. I'm angry
right now. Resentment is aprolonged thing that involves
anger, but it's the timeelement, I think, is the
difference.
Morgan (14:09):
So back to the flags of like, when you know it's
resentment. Because the thingis, I think resentment is
something we can do somethingabout for ourselves, and so it's
helpful to know when it'shappening for you. You said one
thing is, you know, just the waythat you respond in general, in
your life starts to get like,what would you call it? Like,
snappy, like you. Yeah, I feellike you're on edge. Feel
Chris (14:30):
edgy. The other element that happens for me internally
is that my focus is veryexternal. It's on, well, that
person did this, and why didthat person do that? And it's
void of me looking at myself andmy own position. There's a lot
of blame you're throwing out.
There's a lot of blaming, yeah,that's a good word, yeah, yeah,
which
Morgan (14:51):
I think also goes into a little bit of living in that
victim mode. And that's not tosay that people who are true
victims, that's a whole otherthing, and I don't want. To
discount anybody's experience asan actual victim, but when
you're living in that sort ofvictim mentality That colors the
whole way you interact with theworld, everything is happening
to you, and you have zero agencyin that mode. That's what you
(15:15):
think. That's
Chris (15:16):
what you think. And that's a very, very scary place
to live,
Morgan (15:20):
yeah, which means you have your defenses up all the
time.
Chris (15:24):
And we've talked about vulnerability as a gateway to
connection. So when you're inthat mode, you're certainly not
vulnerable. And so then whathappens loneliness, right?
That's fun. And then you startresenting that, you know, I've
had those moments, and then Istart resenting other people
because you wouldn't even cometo the fucking restaurant and
(15:46):
sit down and eat the spinachqueso with me, because you
didn't like me, right?
Morgan (15:50):
Oh, you got a whole story going, Yes, story, yeah,
right. So that's one way, like,when you feel like you're
everything's happening to you,and you're throwing blame out,
and there's this victimmentality that's a red flag for
me, rehashing conversations inmy head, consistent, like I'll
be in the shower and I'm like,and fuck you for this and, you
(16:11):
know? And I'm like, wait aminute. Why am I?
Chris (16:15):
I wish, I wish everybody could actually see I'm washing
my hair.
Morgan (16:21):
Yeah, yeah. So recognizing resentment for what
it is and then acknowledgingthat it does serve, quote,
unquote, serve a kind of purposefor us. That's
Chris (16:31):
an interesting thing to think about. Like, are there
times where resentments havebeen positive? I'm not sure that
I can answer the question yes tothat? Yeah,
Morgan (16:41):
I would say, ultimately, in my case, no, but it's like,
if it didn't quote, serve us insome way, we wouldn't do it.
Yeah, you know what I mean. Andso I think on the surface, it
feels protective,
Chris (16:54):
and it also gives us a way to preserve our own idea of
what our identity is withoutreally looking at who we're
actually being,
Morgan (17:04):
yeah, which, by the way, is way more comfortable than
looking at who we are, way more,way more comfortable. What are
you talking about?
Chris (17:13):
I'm awesome, and it's not that I'm not but I think what's
happened to me in my lifesometimes is I have an idea
about who I want to be, andthat's like my image of myself,
but it's not consistent with whoI'm actually being. And when I
think about my life, and I thinkabout times where there's a
bigger gap between those two,then that's when resentments are
(17:34):
fucking front and center at
Morgan (17:36):
an all time high. Yes, so that's why we do it. It is
more comfortable, quote, unquotecomfortable. A lot of misery
ensues as a result, but it'smore comfortable than having to
really look in the mirror andgo, wait, what what am I? Who am
I being right now? And what amI? What's my part in this?
Chris (17:52):
When we have resentments, does that help us grow?
Personally?
Morgan (17:56):
Obviously, given what we've just been talking about,
there's a huge cost to living inresentment. Yeah, so my common
theme with resentment is thefact that I'm typically an over
functioner. It's how I havelearned to approach life. I'm
getting better at it, but if I'mnot paying attention, I go into
over function mode, which for melooks like absolutely trying to
(18:20):
control everything, and then asa result, resenting that no one
is helping me, right? Andthere's a huge cost in that.
What that looks like is, whycan't my husband do X, Y, Z, why
can't my kids step up and doblah, blah, blah? Again, back to
it being sort of this cancer. Itcan be a cancer in my
relationship with everyonearound me, why can't Chris do
(18:44):
blah, blah, blah for thepodcast? And so if I'm not
keeping it in check, it isolatesme, and it causes me to continue
creating this story that, youknow, I'm the only one that can
do all the things, what?
Chris (18:58):
And that's part of your protection, right? When I get
addicted to that story that, youknow, so and so's never helping
me, and so and so doesn't care.
And when so and so actually doesdo something, I'm likely to miss
it because I'm so attached tothe story that's extremely
disconnecting. Yeah,
Morgan (19:17):
so there's a huge cost there, not to mention, on top of
that, I'm running myself ragged.
Chris (19:22):
There's this chosen powerlessness that can come out
of all this. And it's funny,because in the moment, I think,
in times of my life whereresentments are running really
deep, I have believed that I'mpowerless and that I don't have
agency and I don't have achoice. But the fact is, I do,
yes, I did then, and I do now.
Morgan (19:42):
And that might look like speaking up and saying
something, it might look likewalking away from something, it
might look like takingownership.
Chris (19:50):
And I think the other thing is decreasing resentments
in life is this ongoingpractice. It's not like building
a house. You don't just go over.
Yep, the house. This is built,not
Morgan (20:00):
a one and done? No, I think, in fact, managing
resentments is a huge way togrow. Yeah, as a human being,
yes, it does take somediscomfort a lot of times, and
it does take some ownership, andonce you're able to do that, you
can fine tune things with theway that you show up. So we've
talked about what resentment is,how we know that's what's going
(20:23):
on, what the cost of it is. Sohow the hell what do you do with
it? How do you get through it?
If you ignore it, it justfesters and grows. I
Chris (20:33):
try to take inventory of what is going on with me on a
regular basis. If I'm reallyrunning hot, and there's a lot
going on, I will literally checkin every day, like, Okay, what
happened today? Am I holdinganything? And if I am, what
happened there? And the firstplace I go is with myself. How
(20:54):
did I behave? Well?
Morgan (20:55):
And one of the common things to consider is, why did
that really bother me? Yeah,what about that really bothers
me is that rubbing up againstsome core value of mine, which
means you kind of have to knowwhat, what are your values,
what's important to you? There'sso much about really
understanding who you are andyour identity, yes, your true
(21:17):
identity, that comes into play.
So there's an element of selfawareness here. And
Chris (21:22):
the more that I'm able to go down that pathway of being
aware of my own stuff, the thingthat that jumps out to me more
and more, if another person'sinvolved, guess what, they have
all of that stuff of their own.
And so the more that I practicekind of processing my own
feelings and not turning theminto resentment, the more
empathetic I get. Now, thatdoesn't mean that I don't draw
(21:45):
boundaries, because I actuallydo that a lot more, but the more
empathetic that I get forothers,
Morgan (21:53):
yeah, because you don't live in a vacuum, right? So if
we have abandoned ourselves insome way, the idea is being able
to come back to ourselves inorder to sort of resolve this
resentment, and a lot of timesthat does look like setting some
kind of boundary, holding thatboundary. The other thing
Chris (22:11):
is, I've had experiences in my life where I need to draw
a boundary with myself. I'm notgoing to engage in this behavior
today, right? I'm not going todo X, Y and Z, because I know
that it will predispose me to,you know, something that I don't
want to do. So I'm not going togo down that path that's really
important. A good friend of minerecently reminded me of
(22:34):
something that Viktor Franklsaid. Viktor Frankl wrote a book
called band search for meaning,and it's very popular book, and
my connection to it is actually,when I was 14 years old, dad
just walked into my room one dayand handed it to me, and he's
like, Here, read this. And it'slike, super deep, so E plus r
(22:55):
equals O, so E stands for eventplus response equals outcome, so
like we always have control ofour Yeah,
Morgan (23:05):
that's our part. All right. Well, what are your
micronutrients? I
Chris (23:09):
forgive you for the case.
Oh,
Morgan (23:10):
thank you. I hope that queso was good. I know well. To
that point, it can be helpful toverbalize your expectations in
advance. Yeah, there's value inthat, and there's grace in that
that gives the other person achance to even try
Chris (23:28):
just the act of expressing the expectation
doesn't mean or presume that
Morgan (23:34):
that should always be met and it won't be, it won't
always be met. It's justpracticing putting it out there.
But there's a chance that thatperson on the other end of it
doesn't even fucking know, or,you know, has has every
intention of trying to connectwith you or live up to your
expectations, but they don'tknow what they are. Yeah, you
know, it's like you can't. It'snot fair to have a one sided
(23:56):
conversation in your head withsomeone and tell yourself, well,
they should know. They shouldalready know that x, y, z, or
that this would matter to
Chris (24:05):
me well, and you're holding the whole thing hostage,
then, right? It's not fair.
Nobody could know anything ifyou don't share it. Yeah, what
else? Yeah. So resentments aredisconnecting. They give us a
false sense of self protection,they promote loneliness. They
take a lot of energy. They takea ton of energy, which, in life,
is such a finite resource, sothere's a huge cost that comes
(24:28):
with it. And then the otherthing is, resentments are often
a mirror.
Morgan (24:35):
Yeah, they are a chance for self discovery and growth.
Chris (24:39):
And it's that realization for me that what my lane is, is
my response. We're just holdingthe R. That's it. That's all I
could do. Okay.
Morgan (24:48):
Well, go out there and slay today. Guys, get it. Go get
it, and we'll see you next timein the mud.
So today we're gonna open up with a little story. I think
that we were 23 and maybe youwere 19 or 24 and 20, I don't
know, somewhere in that time oflife, and I can recall coming
home. And at the time, I wasliving in New England, and I
would travel back and forth tocome home, but I was visiting
(00:23):
for only a very short period oftime, and we were all going to
go out to dinner, and youwouldn't go to dinner with us.
You didn't want to go. No, Idon't want to go. Bring me some
spinach queso, but I'm notgoing, and I was so resentful at
you for that I'm in town foronly a short amount of time. She
(00:44):
doesn't, she's just gonna sit inher fucking house and watch TV
and she doesn't even want tospend time. And like, I was
really fired up,
Morgan (00:52):
yeah, that's so wild, because I had no idea,
Chris (00:57):
like, I stewed over it for a couple days, which is wild
for me to revisit that now,because I'm like, what you need
to chill out like I would neverreact like that now. So today's
topic is
Morgan (01:12):
resentment. Ooh, this one's juicy, yes. Why are we
talking about
Chris (01:15):
it? Because I think that resentment is one of those
things that can move in to lifeand just color everything. It's
Morgan (01:23):
like a cancer. It can be and if you don't acknowledge and
deal with it, it can really fuckwith things. It
Chris (01:32):
also back to the idea of energy as a finite resource in
life. God dang it. This willjust suck energy out of
everything. Do
Morgan (01:42):
you have stories of resentment other than the hating
my guts for wanting spinachqueso?
Chris (01:48):
Well, I'll pick on you one more time. I don't know if
you even remember this. So nowI'm going way, way, way, way
back. Do you remember when wehad the little kiddie pool on
the back patio area? Yes, I meanwe might be like eight and four
now, and I had this stuffed bearthat I just loved, this stuffed
(02:08):
bear, and you decided, no, no,you didn't mean to you were very
innocently and sweetly, wantedto give the bear a bath. And so
he put it in the pin the pooland totally ruined it. And that
one, like, I didn't really like,it's funny, because the memory
is different than the Queso likethat one, I just remember maybe
(02:30):
there was a little bit ofresentment, but I think actually
I was just really sad anddisappointed that the bear got
ruined and I was mad at you. ButI think the predominant thing
was feeling that sadness well.
And
Morgan (02:42):
that brings up an interesting point, what actually
is resentment? And how do youhow do you know it's resentment?
Resentment
Chris (02:48):
is a funny thing, and it can pop up everywhere. Have you
ever heard that saying that anexpectation is a resentment
waiting to be born? It's true. Ilove that. One
Morgan (02:59):
thing that comes to mind for me is that resentments can
look like sort of an abandoningof yourself when I think of a
resentment, and the times that Ihave had resentment, most often,
not all the time, but most oftenthe reason it's there is because
I failed to set some sort ofboundary, or enforce a boundary
(03:20):
that I have not holding true tomyself, right? There's often a
role that I play in theresentment that can be really
painful sometimes to admit, youknow, but that's one of the
things, when we starteddiscussing this topic for this
episode, is, ooh, I think a lotof times it's me again. It's not
to gaslight anybody, but what'smy part in it?
Chris (03:42):
Right? We gotta hear a story. I've got a lot of them
hit me. So,
Morgan (03:47):
for instance, I have a friend, very good friend. There
was a phase in our friendshipwhere I was kind of becoming the
therapist friend. Yep, all ofour conversations I was
spending, I mean, inordinateamounts of time talking with her
on the phone on a daily basisabout her stuff. And I would say
(04:07):
it was well beyond the I'm beingthe supportive friend. It was me
right, trying to fix her lifefor her, you know. And she was
really leaning into that, and Iwas really leaning into that to
an unhealthy degree. And itreached a point where it was
really frustrating for me,because anytime I gave her
advice, which I thought was justgreat advice, she wouldn't take
(04:29):
it, and then we'd be right backwhere we were in the beginning,
talking about the same thing.
And so I got really resentfulthat I was spending all this
time, my precious time, tryingto help her, and she wasn't
taking my help, you know what Imean? And it took a while. We
had kind of a blow upeventually, and sort of parted
ways for a while. And the moredistance I got from it, the more
(04:50):
I realized, Oh, honey, it's yourfault that you didn't set the
boundary. Yeah, it's her life.
Let her live her life. You canbe. A supportive friend without
giving all of that time andexpecting her to take your
advice on her life. And sincethat time, it's gotten a lot
(05:12):
better, like I know where theline is, and I hold it right,
and I don't have those feelingsat all anymore. Yeah, you know,
Chris (05:18):
going back to the Queso for a minute, one of the things
that was really underneath thatresentment for me, and it wasn't
just in the relationship withyou at that time, I spent a lot
of time, like calling people,maintaining relationships, and I
would do that, and I would setthat tone right. And there was
nothing wrong with setting thattone, but where things went
(05:41):
astray was that, in setting thattone, my expectation was that
you were going to
Morgan (05:46):
do it back right, and what that means if you do or
don't right. And
Chris (05:50):
so my expectation was I'm doing this, and therefore you're
going to you're going to call meback, and you're going to give
me what I gave you. And that'snot fair
Morgan (05:59):
well, and in that there is this unmet, unspoken need,
right, that you had, that'sright, I had no idea. Now
granted. Now I'm like, why thefuck wouldn't I have an idea?
And it is interesting to thinkwhat would have been different
if you had said, hey, it wouldmean a lot to me if you came
right? So a resentment can besome kind of need of yours
(06:19):
that's not being met well.
Chris (06:21):
And in that you brought up the word is boundary, right?
And learning how to establishthe boundaries, that's what that
is. And sometimes it ironically,it becomes easier and more
comfortable for me to be mad atyou about the fucking case out
then for me to say, Morgan, itwould mean a lot for me. You
(06:43):
would come and have this dinner,because I want to spend time
with you. And the reason whythat's hard is it's vulnerable,
and it's easier for me just toprotect myself. And this
resentment rage about thefucking queso,
Morgan (06:57):
there's something about resentment that really brings up
this concept of being in victimmode, victim
Chris (07:04):
comes up for me. And the other thing is protection,
Morgan (07:06):
yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is a self preserving
thing.
Chris (07:10):
Yeah, there's this indulgence to that, you know,
just like, I'm just gonna stayin my own little shell and fume
about it, feel like I wasvictimized. Yeah,
Morgan (07:20):
it's fine. I don't know why this came up just now in my
head. So have you watched fourseasons on Netflix? Oh my god,
that show was great. I have notfinished it yet, but the episode
where Tina Fey's character andher husband, they're at the
beach and, yeah, so Will Forte,like, goes out on the dance
(07:41):
floor with this, like, group ofyoung, hot girls or something,
and he's out there dancingaround, and she's sitting at the
table, and when he comes back tothe table, she, like, she just
throws a cup at his face. Yes,for some reason that
encapsulates resentment to me inlike, how many times in marriage
(08:06):
in particular, like these reallyold, comfortable, long standing
relationships, ooh, resentmentcan really breed there for a
long time.
Chris (08:16):
Yes, well, and to stay with that, their whole
relationship was infected withresentment in the four season
show, like, she threw a cup ofhis face, and then he, like, got
back at her because he resentedher for throwing the cup. Yeah?
But then there's, like, thisresentment one upmanship thing
that starts to happen.
Morgan (08:35):
Yeah? It's hard to figure out what's this really
about. It
Chris (08:39):
gets very foggy, and after a while of doing that,
you're like, I don't even I justknow I hate them. I'm just
pissed
Morgan (08:45):
off at that, right? Yes, why? Yeah. So I think there's
something valuable aboutrecognizing resentment early on,
yeah, so that you can manage it.
So
Chris (08:57):
one of the things that really came up for me in
preparing and kind of thinkingabout this is the 12 step
program. So, you know, in the 12steps, step four has to do with
taking a personal inventory.
Nowhere in the fourth step doesit say resentment. But actually,
when you really do the fourstep, what you do is you make a
(09:18):
little table, and you list thepeople that you're resentful to,
and then you write down why, andthen you write down like, what
did that thing affect? Like, didit affect my ambitions? Did it
affect, like, my personalrelationships? So you categorize
it. And back to the point ofthings getting foggy, that
(09:39):
exercise is certainly for me, itwas not fun, but wow, it's
really, really enlightening.
Because what happened to me is Iended up like sitting there, and
it was literally like holding amirror, like, Oh, there you are
again. Oh, there you are again.
Oh. Well, so what I realizedwas, oops, that was me.
Morgan (10:06):
Yeah, that's what I mean. And that's not to say that
there wasn't an impact on, Imean, that has a huge impact, or
that that another person isn'tat fault always, you know, or,
or have some, some sort of partin it, but you're right. Like,
where is it? I think theresentment comes the moment that
you compromise somehow orabandon yourself
Chris (10:28):
that's right. And even back to that concept, like, even
in the in the moments wheremaybe someone else is doing
something that's is not right,or whatever, you have the agency
to say, I don't want to do thatin most cases, right, right? But
it's harder sometimes, in thosemoments, to say, Yeah, I'm not
(10:49):
going to do this or or to say noto somebody, than it is to just
be quietly resentful. It's
Morgan (10:55):
uncomfortable. Sometimes I like the idea boundaries as a
way to sort of contain who wereally are. They're a big deal.
Chris (11:04):
Boundaries are just they're a hard concept for me.
You know, I remember one time Ican be a little simple, right?
So somebody took a whiteboardand drew like three stick
figures, and the first stickfigure, it was just a stick
figure. The second stick figurehad a circle drawn around it.
(11:25):
The third stick figure had adotted line. And so the first
picture no circle, just theperson, represents somebody with
no boundaries. That is a crazyfucking place to live. Crazy. Do
you know these people? Well, Iused to be one. I have a lot of
experience. I'm not sure how toput it on my resume, but it's
(11:48):
there. And then the second oneis lockdown mode, right? Which
sometimes is important. There'ssome things like, No, I'm not
doing that. Hard. No, yeah,hard. No. That's the second
picture. The third picture,though, they're all powerful,
but the third one was the ahamoment for me, the dotted line
is you approach something andyou're just not sure. So I need
(12:10):
more time to think about this,so you let it in temporarily,
and you process, what am I doingwith this? Am I gonna keep this
inside my circle or say, No,
Morgan (12:19):
that's a really healthy way to look at it, because
healthy boundaries serve youreally strict. Inflexible
boundaries can actually overprotect you, which can impact
your relationships and the waythat you live your life. You
have to revisit boundaries tosay, is this working for me?
Yeah,
Chris (12:37):
the challenge that I have had with boundaries is that I'm
going back and forth between thefirst picture and the second
picture. Like, no boundaries,locked down. Fuck you. Go away.
Oh, come on in. Like it there'sYeah. But back to the idea of
resentment. For me, when I startto feel a lot of resentments
(12:59):
creeping in, like, for me, thisis what it looks like I'm
driving down the road and I'mlike, fuck you. Why did you? Why
didn't you put your fuckingblinker? Like, the little things
will start to make me respond.
That's a yellow light for me.
Like, okay, sit down and thinkabout where you're at.
Morgan (13:16):
Do you ever do the thing? This is how I know I'm
getting resentful, where I starthaving a conversation with the
particular person in my head.
This is what I would say, andthis is how I'm gonna I'm, like,
arguing with the person in myhead.
Chris (13:27):
Yeah, it's not happening as much anymore, but that's a
definite flag. Like, when that'shappening, I need to sit down.
There's something that that I'mprobably not doing, that's
totally, by the way, to do withme, right? And that's the other
powerful thing about the threepictures, right? There's only
one person, yeah, in the threepictures, and it's me. You're
(13:49):
right.
Morgan (13:49):
And I think that's what distinguishes resentment versus
just run of the mill anger,yeah, what we do with the
Chris (13:57):
anger? Yeah, I think of anger as momentary. I'm angry
right now. Resentment is aprolonged thing that involves
anger, but it's the timeelement, I think, is the
difference.
Morgan (14:09):
So back to the flags of like, when you know it's
resentment. Because the thingis, I think resentment is
something we can do somethingabout for ourselves, and so it's
helpful to know when it'shappening for you. You said one
thing is, you know, just the waythat you respond in general, in
your life starts to get like,what would you call it? Like,
snappy, like you. Yeah, I feellike you're on edge. Feel
Chris (14:30):
edgy. The other element that happens for me internally
is that my focus is veryexternal. It's on, well, that
person did this, and why didthat person do that? And it's
void of me looking at myself andmy own position. There's a lot
of blame you're throwing out.
There's a lot of blaming, yeah,that's a good word, yeah, yeah,
which
Morgan (14:51):
I think also goes into a little bit of living in that
victim mode. And that's not tosay that people who are true
victims, that's a whole otherthing, and I don't want. To
discount anybody's experience asan actual victim, but when
you're living in that sort ofvictim mentality That colors the
whole way you interact with theworld, everything is happening
to you, and you have zero agencyin that mode. That's what you
(15:15):
think. That's
Chris (15:16):
what you think. And that's a very, very scary place
to live,
Morgan (15:20):
yeah, which means you have your defenses up all the
time.
Chris (15:24):
And we've talked about vulnerability as a gateway to
connection. So when you're inthat mode, you're certainly not
vulnerable. And so then whathappens loneliness, right?
That's fun. And then you startresenting that, you know, I've
had those moments, and then Istart resenting other people
because you wouldn't even cometo the fucking restaurant and
(15:46):
sit down and eat the spinachqueso with me, because you
didn't like me, right?
Morgan (15:50):
Oh, you got a whole story going, Yes, story, yeah,
right. So that's one way, like,when you feel like you're
everything's happening to you,and you're throwing blame out,
and there's this victimmentality that's a red flag for
me, rehashing conversations inmy head, consistent, like I'll
be in the shower and I'm like,and fuck you for this and, you
(16:11):
know? And I'm like, wait aminute. Why am I?
Chris (16:15):
I wish, I wish everybody could actually see I'm washing
my hair.
Morgan (16:21):
Yeah, yeah. So recognizing resentment for what
it is and then acknowledgingthat it does serve, quote,
unquote, serve a kind of purposefor us. That's
Chris (16:31):
an interesting thing to think about. Like, are there
times where resentments havebeen positive? I'm not sure that
I can answer the question yes tothat? Yeah,
Morgan (16:41):
I would say, ultimately, in my case, no, but it's like,
if it didn't quote, serve us insome way, we wouldn't do it.
Yeah, you know what I mean. Andso I think on the surface, it
feels protective,
Chris (16:54):
and it also gives us a way to preserve our own idea of
what our identity is withoutreally looking at who we're
actually being,
Morgan (17:04):
yeah, which, by the way, is way more comfortable than
looking at who we are, way more,way more comfortable. What are
you talking about?
Chris (17:13):
I'm awesome, and it's not that I'm not but I think what's
happened to me in my lifesometimes is I have an idea
about who I want to be, andthat's like my image of myself,
but it's not consistent with whoI'm actually being. And when I
think about my life, and I thinkabout times where there's a
bigger gap between those two,then that's when resentments are
(17:34):
fucking front and center at
Morgan (17:36):
an all time high. Yes, so that's why we do it. It is
more comfortable, quote, unquotecomfortable. A lot of misery
ensues as a result, but it'smore comfortable than having to
really look in the mirror andgo, wait, what what am I? Who am
I being right now? And what amI? What's my part in this?
Chris (17:52):
When we have resentments, does that help us grow?
Personally?
Morgan (17:56):
Obviously, given what we've just been talking about,
there's a huge cost to living inresentment. Yeah, so my common
theme with resentment is thefact that I'm typically an over
functioner. It's how I havelearned to approach life. I'm
getting better at it, but if I'mnot paying attention, I go into
over function mode, which for melooks like absolutely trying to
(18:20):
control everything, and then asa result, resenting that no one
is helping me, right? Andthere's a huge cost in that.
What that looks like is, whycan't my husband do X, Y, Z, why
can't my kids step up and doblah, blah, blah? Again, back to
it being sort of this cancer. Itcan be a cancer in my
relationship with everyonearound me, why can't Chris do
(18:44):
blah, blah, blah for thepodcast? And so if I'm not
keeping it in check, it isolatesme, and it causes me to continue
creating this story that, youknow, I'm the only one that can
do all the things, what?
Chris (18:58):
And that's part of your protection, right? When I get
addicted to that story that, youknow, so and so's never helping
me, and so and so doesn't care.
And when so and so actually doesdo something, I'm likely to miss
it because I'm so attached tothe story that's extremely
disconnecting. Yeah,
Morgan (19:17):
so there's a huge cost there, not to mention, on top of
that, I'm running myself ragged.
Chris (19:22):
There's this chosen powerlessness that can come out
of all this. And it's funny,because in the moment, I think,
in times of my life whereresentments are running really
deep, I have believed that I'mpowerless and that I don't have
agency and I don't have achoice. But the fact is, I do,
yes, I did then, and I do now.
Morgan (19:42):
And that might look like speaking up and saying
something, it might look likewalking away from something, it
might look like takingownership.
Chris (19:50):
And I think the other thing is decreasing resentments
in life is this ongoingpractice. It's not like building
a house. You don't just go over.
Yep, the house. This is built,not
Morgan (20:00):
a one and done? No, I think, in fact, managing
resentments is a huge way togrow. Yeah, as a human being,
yes, it does take somediscomfort a lot of times, and
it does take some ownership, andonce you're able to do that, you
can fine tune things with theway that you show up. So we've
talked about what resentment is,how we know that's what's going
(20:23):
on, what the cost of it is. Sohow the hell what do you do with
it? How do you get through it?
If you ignore it, it justfesters and grows. I
Chris (20:33):
try to take inventory of what is going on with me on a
regular basis. If I'm reallyrunning hot, and there's a lot
going on, I will literally checkin every day, like, Okay, what
happened today? Am I holdinganything? And if I am, what
happened there? And the firstplace I go is with myself. How
(20:54):
did I behave? Well?
Morgan (20:55):
And one of the common things to consider is, why did
that really bother me? Yeah,what about that really bothers
me is that rubbing up againstsome core value of mine, which
means you kind of have to knowwhat, what are your values,
what's important to you? There'sso much about really
understanding who you are andyour identity, yes, your true
(21:17):
identity, that comes into play.
So there's an element of selfawareness here. And
Chris (21:22):
the more that I'm able to go down that pathway of being
aware of my own stuff, the thingthat that jumps out to me more
and more, if another person'sinvolved, guess what, they have
all of that stuff of their own.
And so the more that I practicekind of processing my own
feelings and not turning theminto resentment, the more
empathetic I get. Now, thatdoesn't mean that I don't draw
(21:45):
boundaries, because I actuallydo that a lot more, but the more
empathetic that I get forothers,
Morgan (21:53):
yeah, because you don't live in a vacuum, right? So if
we have abandoned ourselves insome way, the idea is being able
to come back to ourselves inorder to sort of resolve this
resentment, and a lot of timesthat does look like setting some
kind of boundary, holding thatboundary. The other thing
Chris (22:11):
is, I've had experiences in my life where I need to draw
a boundary with myself. I'm notgoing to engage in this behavior
today, right? I'm not going todo X, Y and Z, because I know
that it will predispose me to,you know, something that I don't
want to do. So I'm not going togo down that path that's really
important. A good friend of minerecently reminded me of
(22:34):
something that Viktor Franklsaid. Viktor Frankl wrote a book
called band search for meaning,and it's very popular book, and
my connection to it is actually,when I was 14 years old, dad
just walked into my room one dayand handed it to me, and he's
like, Here, read this. And it'slike, super deep, so E plus r
(22:55):
equals O, so E stands for eventplus response equals outcome, so
like we always have control ofour Yeah,
Morgan (23:05):
that's our part. All right. Well, what are your
micronutrients? I
Chris (23:09):
forgive you for the case.
Oh,
Morgan (23:10):
thank you. I hope that queso was good. I know well. To
that point, it can be helpful toverbalize your expectations in
advance. Yeah, there's value inthat, and there's grace in that
that gives the other person achance to even try
Chris (23:28):
just the act of expressing the expectation
doesn't mean or presume that
Morgan (23:34):
that should always be met and it won't be, it won't
always be met. It's justpracticing putting it out there.
But there's a chance that thatperson on the other end of it
doesn't even fucking know, or,you know, has has every
intention of trying to connectwith you or live up to your
expectations, but they don'tknow what they are. Yeah, you
know, it's like you can't. It'snot fair to have a one sided
(23:56):
conversation in your head withsomeone and tell yourself, well,
they should know. They shouldalready know that x, y, z, or
that this would matter to
Chris (24:05):
me well, and you're holding the whole thing hostage,
then, right? It's not fair.
Nobody could know anything ifyou don't share it. Yeah, what
else? Yeah. So resentments aredisconnecting. They give us a
false sense of self protection,they promote loneliness. They
take a lot of energy. They takea ton of energy, which, in life,
is such a finite resource, sothere's a huge cost that comes
(24:28):
with it. And then the otherthing is, resentments are often
a mirror.
Morgan (24:35):
Yeah, they are a chance for self discovery and growth.
Chris (24:39):
And it's that realization for me that what my lane is, is
my response. We're just holdingthe R. That's it. That's all I
could do. Okay.
Morgan (24:48):
Well, go out there and slay today. Guys, get it. Go get
it, and we'll see you next timein the mud.
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