June 10, 2025 • 43 mins
This week on The Midlife Mud, we’re talking about the five love languages—words of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, gifts, and physical touch—and how they might feel different as we move through midlife. Because let’s be honest: what used to feel like love might now just feel like another thing to manage.
We explore:
- What love languages actually mean (and why they still matter)
- How most people have 1–2 dominant ones
- How midlife may or may not shift the way you give and receive love
- Why understanding your love language—and someone else’s—can lead to fewer WTF moments in relationships
- And why your relationship with yourself is just as important
We also get into how our own love languages have evolved over time, especially when it comes to quality time and solo moments of self-connection—and why that awareness can bring more clarity, grace, and connection.
🎯 Take the official Love Languages quiz
📚 Check out The 5 Love Languages book by Gary Chapman
Feeling seen in the mess? Good.
👉 Join the mud at www.themidlifemud.com/join
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Morgan (00:00):
Good morning. Good morning. How are you I'm doing
(00:03):
well. How are you I'mcaffeinating. So I'm doing well.
I'm getting I'm getting well.
Chris (00:10):
I am very feisty this morning because I woke up at 430
which is not just for today, butkind of back to the time
episode, a little bit. Iactually did some homework. It's
funny how these things end upgiving me homework. These things
being our episodes, thispodcast, you know, it gets me
(00:31):
engaged in learning and kind ofgrowing in my own way. And I
listened to the James clearbook.
Morgan (00:38):
It was so good, right? I did too. And, my God, it was
awesome. We're a little behindon this one. We're a little
behind,
Chris (00:45):
but I'm used to being slow, so it's okay, but I really
felt like I'm strong in figuringout, like, what I want in life
right now, right? I'm doing agood job of that, but the piece
that I've been missing is thehabit, so I've just been playing
around with a little bit of anew mantra on life, and some of
(01:06):
it is having to do with physicalfitness and just eating better.
So I've been getting up andreally also obtaining that magic
part of the day for me, where mybrain works the best. I know the
downside is it means I'm gettingup at 430 and I go to bed at
like, 830
Morgan (01:22):
I mean, that's how everybody wants to live their
life, right? I wish I were oneof those people that could do
with four hours of sleep.
Chris (01:30):
It's not bad. I mean, like, what the fuck am I doing
at 10 o'clock at night, fightingto watch something or read
something, or, I don't know,just go to sleep.
Morgan (01:39):
It's something about having downtime though, you
know, yeah, and quality timewith family and stuff for me,
you know, like I if I go to bedat nine, my son's not even home
from work yet, so I can go awhole day without seeing him.
Chris (01:51):
Well, I'm lucky, because we live in a house where we just
shut it down at 830 well, you
Morgan (01:56):
can right now, but that'll change as they get
older. Well,
Chris (01:59):
and here we go. It is getting into the summer vibe, I
know. So the summer vibe isgonna fuck with all of this. So
my little world, all my littleideas, we're gonna really test
them. They're gonna get shit
Morgan (02:13):
all over. Yes, I know, but your intentions are good,
but I love what you're saying,because it's true for me too.
It's not that we're sitting herejust talking about this stuff.
It's actually getting us intoaction too. Yeah. So that's
really cool, because I've alsobeen doing the same thing after
we talked about time, and it waslike, Oh, well, morning time is
sort of my sweet spot in termsof productivity, and I'm
(02:37):
squandering it. Why would I dothat? And so I have started to
get up at 530 I'm not a 430person, and that has been really
good so far. It's like, oh, Ihave this whole day, yeah, after
I get all these things done, andit's, it's a, it's a game
changer. So I like the idea, themain idea of the atomic habits
book, which is that, you know,you put systems in place, and
(03:01):
boy, am I a systems person. Ilove systems. You
Chris (03:04):
really are, like, I think I probably more of a systems
person than I come across. Ireally, you are really, really
like systems, but you take it toa level beyond me, which is
awesome. Like, I love that.
Morgan (03:17):
I mean, it can be to a fault sometimes, because if you,
if you systemize everything,yeah, you're not always thinking
about what you're doing, right?
And so you have to consistentlyevaluate your systems to make
sure they're actually effective.
But I just love getting a systemin place so that I can have more
brain I don't have to think somuch about it, and I have more
(03:38):
brain power for other things. Sothe other
Chris (03:40):
thing that I just love about, like, conceptually, that
that book is talking about, hebrings up this idea of the 4%
all you're really trying to dois get 4% better than the last
time you did something. Yeah?
And it just makes it soapproachable. If you make it 50%
then you're setting yourself upfor failure, and then the
likelihood of doing it again islower, right?
Morgan (04:02):
Yeah, you're overwhelmed. And so this week
it's like, I'm just gonna get upearlier, and then next week
it's, I'm gonna add in data, youknow, right?
Chris (04:09):
So next year, when I take you to a blue run, just when you
before you go down 4% 4% 4% justsay that mantra that was not 4%
Morgan (04:21):
now maybe by then it will be because I got a ski pass
and I'm gonna learn, damn itall.
Chris (04:26):
Right, what are we talking about today? So I'll
start
Morgan (04:30):
with something that happened recently that kind of
made me think of this as aninteresting topic for one of our
episodes. So my daughter, myyoungest, she is 10, yeah, and
she is an interesting soul.
Chris (04:45):
But just to clarify the life that she wandered into,
she's the youngest girl of four,and she has three older
brothers,
Morgan (04:53):
and the next oldest brother right now is 13. So God
bless her. I know a poor thing.
It's. Yeah, but she has thislittle friend who recently had
to put her dog to sleep, who shejust loved and adored, and that
really touched my daughter in away that she wanted to do
something to make it better. Andher version of doing that was to
(05:14):
come to me and say, Hey, Mom, Ineed you to go pick up a basket,
and then we're going to go onAmazon, and we're going to
collect all these little thingsthat my friend really likes. I'm
just, I'm going to make thislittle, this little gift basket
for her. And one of the thingsthat she asked to make was this
pillow customized with a pictureof the dog, which she asked her
(05:39):
friend to send to her. A fewyears ago, I had given all of
the kids one of their owncustomized pillows. All the
kids, by the way, love thatpillow, and so she wanted one
for her friend to have of herdog. And so of course, I just
thought, wow, this is so sweetthat she does this. And she did.
She put together this amazinglittle basket with this big old
(06:01):
dog pillow and these littlecandies that this friend of hers
really likes and her favoritegum and chips and things like
that. It's a care package. Andwhat I notice is like, this is
something my daughter doesroutinely. She puts a ton of
thought into gifts for people.
(06:22):
And it isn't about the materialthing. It's about, hey, I know
you right. I'm I'm thinkingabout you. I see you exactly.
Yeah, she did it for me theother day, like, Okay, so
remember when you and I went on?
Well, we went with the family toGatlinburg, yeah, and I left my
my special neck pillow that Isleep on, which also had, like,
(06:44):
a special pillowcase on it.
Yeah, I left it there. And Ididn't even realize until I got
home, and there was no way I wasgetting that back. And so I
really wanted to get anotherpillowcase, but I didn't for the
longest time. And then about amonth ago, I finally was like,
Okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonnaorder one of those pillowcases.
Yeah, my daughter, when she sawit, she said, When did you get
(07:04):
that? And I said, I just, I justgot it. And she said, You ruined
my Mother's Day present. That'swhat I was gonna get for you.
Chris (07:12):
So she held that from October until Mother's Day. Yes,
that's amazing. And
Morgan (07:16):
she's 10, Wow,
Chris (07:18):
it's amazing. Yeah.
Really is amazing. Yeah.
Morgan (07:21):
So it got me thinking.
And this also stems from aconversation I was having with a
good friend of mine about lovelanguages and how you Yeah, how
you show love and how youreceive love. And so I thought
that's definitely worth talkingabout. I'm sure a lot of people
are familiar with the lovelanguages. But I also kind of
wanted to think about, how doesbeing in midlife impact that, if
at all, right, and it may bedifferent for for different
(07:43):
people, what are they? Well,first of all, there is a book,
I'm sure a lot of people, Ithink this was written like in
the 90s or something. Yeah,it's, it's been around for a
while. Yeah, people know aboutit. Some people know about it.
People do. Yeah, it's out there.
The book is called LoveLanguages by Gary Chapman, for
anyone who who doesn't knowabout it and wants to read it,
(08:04):
but essentially, there are fivedifferent love languages, and
the first one is words ofaffirmation, which is basically
just say something nice aboutme. You know that's that's how I
feel seen. Is for you toacknowledge that I'm working
hard, or that I'm doing well atsomething, or it doesn't have to
be fancy, it doesn't have to bepoetic, just like a hey, I see
(08:28):
you. All
Chris (08:28):
right, let's practice that one. I really appreciate
the way that you organize ouroutlines in our Google Drive in
preparation for these podcasts.
Well,
Morgan (08:39):
thank you. I appreciate that. Would that
Chris (08:41):
count? That would absolutely
Morgan (08:42):
count. Yes, all right, acts of service is another one,
and that's my husband's 100%which is just to show me that
you love me by by doingsomething that I don't have the
energy to do right now. Youknow, it doesn't have to be
again, any big thing. It's likefold the towels that are sitting
in the laundry basket. It's nicethat you're putting in the
(09:05):
effort and trying to lighten the
Chris (09:07):
load. So acts of service is not like my natural language.
But I go in and out of all ofthese, and I have practiced some
of the ones that are not mynatural ones. An example that
I'm thinking about this for me,like a way that I try to do acts
of service is if the laundrycomes out of the machine, you
(09:27):
know, out of the dryer, thenI'll take all the clothes and
fold them all up and lay themout. Now, I don't put them away,
because I always do that wrong,but I at least lay them out. So
I'm not sure if I'm reallygetting full credit, or, yeah,
you are. You're gettingsomething there, but the effort
is there, and the other one isjust going to do the grocery
(09:48):
shopping, which is sort of aBelieber task in our house, but
like I, I think literally, justbeing there physically and doing
the grocery shopping side byside. Yeah. Is somewhat of act
of service, Yeah,
Morgan (10:02):
or like, when Matt's driving the kids all over the
country to go to their sportingevent, that is an act of service
to his kids and to me, because Idon't like have the energy and
time to do that all the time, orever so
Chris (10:16):
it honey, it's fine. We can go to St Louis for the day.
It's all we'll be back bymidnight,
Morgan (10:23):
and that's exactly how he is. I know it. But what I
love about that one is that itis, it is walking the talk. It's
not just saying they're gonna dosomething. It is, it's just
doing it. And a lot of timesyou're not even saying you're
gonna do it. You just go do it.
Yeah. And that can mean a wholelot. Another one is quality
time, which speaks for itself,spending time together, actually
being present, though. It'sabout really being with a
(10:44):
person, yeah, instead of lettingall the chaos kind of infiltrate
into your time together, yourrelationship. So
Chris (10:53):
this one really like lights, my soul, me too. This is
kind of one of my primarylanguages. And, you know, I
think about our episode on leveltwo, fun, and the trip that we
took to New Mexico, you justbrought up Tennessee. And I love
that experience that you and Ihad with your daughter riding
the horses through themountains. That was awesome. And
(11:17):
that's worth 1000 things to me,more than 1000 things
Morgan (11:21):
well. And in that case, especially there's, there's some
element of doing something newtogether, exploring something
new that feels very quality, youknow? Because I think when
you're doing something new,you're also really a lot more
present. At least I am. Inoticed that in my marriage too,
like when we when we gosomewhere we've never been.
(11:41):
Yeah? We can both really bethere instead of, oh, we're
going on the same place. Wealways go and ordering the same
food, and it's all the sameexperience. We forget that it
ever happened. Yeah? So gifts,as we talked about at the very
beginning, receiving gifts. Thisone, I don't understand as much.
You know, this is not mine, butI do understand it. Now, when I
(12:03):
look at it, like when I see mydaughter doing it, yeah, because
I can see where it comes from.
If a
Chris (12:09):
gift is really well thought out, and the gift is
saying, I really see you, thatis a special kind of gift. Now,
the other thing is, you cancross these a little bit where,
like if I gave a gift of a trip,that's quality time, but it's
also a gift. It's true,
Morgan (12:28):
it's true. And then the last one is physical touch,
which goes without saying,that's
Chris (12:34):
your primary Oh, my God,
Morgan (12:37):
don't touch me with a 10 foot pole.
Chris (12:40):
Get away from me.
Morgan (12:43):
But some people, like, for you, some people, it's a
really big it's a really bigdeal.
Chris (12:47):
And I just want to put it out here, like, when, when we
talk about physical touch, it'snot, we're not talking about
sexual touch, no, although itcould be, that's included, that
could be, but that's just partof it, like, don't get stuck in
that part. It's, it's literally,
Morgan (13:03):
like, giving your child a hug, patting a friend on the
back when they're really goingthrough something. I mean,
that's physical touch. Yeah. Thereason I wanted to talk about
all of these is number one,like, we all have some of that.
There's usually one or two thatare the most dominant, and you
can actually go take a free quizonline to figure out what yours
is, if you don't already knowit. But what's interesting is
(13:26):
the way that you relate topeople you know their love
language, their dominant one maybe very different than yours,
and so how you show them loveyou're going to want to do it in
their language, and vice versa.
The other piece that I findinteresting is that, you know,
midlife shakes things up. Andfor me, I think it's my my
dominant language has changed alittle bit. And so I was just
(13:49):
curious to kind of talk aboutthat and explore that here with
our little muddy community. WhenI say, like, midlife shakes
things up, I think about how ourpriorities now are often really
different than they were when wewere in our 20s. Things are just
different. Our time is spentdifferently. Time feels a lot
more scarce than it did before.
(14:10):
Yes, we've got the whole thingwhere our physical bodies are
changing, and so does ourrelationship with it. And so
physical touch might be a littleawkward, you know? It just it
changes things a little bit. AndI think it can be really easy to
fall into sort of this autopilotsituation in our relationships,
in midlife in particular,because we're so busy and things
(14:31):
are crazy, and if we're notreally paying attention to the
way that we show love or receivelove, we don't like check in
with ourselves and the otherperson, it can lead to that
disconnection, that resentmentand so really coming back to
evaluate, hey, how do I feelseen in this relationship right
now? I feel like that'simportant. Where
Chris (14:53):
does self compassion fit into all of that? And by saying
that, I mean my relationshipwith myself, you're.
Relationship with yourself, andhow am I loving myself
absolutely, you know, how am Itreating myself? And I think
that is so critical, and that'ssomething that if I really look
at it through that lens, I'vebeen through a big evolution,
(15:15):
you know, from childhood untilnow, around that, and I'm still
going through, yeah,
Morgan (15:19):
so, so you're saying there's been some kind of shift
for you, if you consider thatlove languages can apply to your
relationship with yourself,which I I agree. I think they
do.
Chris (15:29):
Yeah, so often. And this is the way that I always
interpreted the love languagestuff was really how I'm
relating to other people and howthey're relating to me. I never
really thought about it untilrecently, in terms of, how do I
relate to myself, and what I amlearning and experiencing in
life is that the way that Itreat myself cascades out to the
(15:52):
way that I treat others, andthat's really not a very
conscious thing. A lot of timesI'm becoming more conscious
about it, but it's aninteresting little connection.
Yeah,
Morgan (16:02):
it is. So what I'm curious then, what has the shift
been for you?
Chris (16:06):
Well, it's really kind of funny, because I told you that
my key love language is qualitytime, and yet I spent the
predominant amount of my lifebetween 20 and 40 running away
from myself, right? Not spendingquality time. I'm gonna give
myself a gift though. I'm gonnabuy myself a new phone, and I'm
(16:27):
gonna, yeah, right. That's
Morgan (16:28):
really interesting, really interesting.
Chris (16:33):
So the shift is I'm coming back to quality time with
myself. And it's funny, becausewe really were just talking
about that in the beginning ofthis show with time. You know, I
was talking about getting up at430 in the morning. But part of
that is I have time every daywith myself, and I'm at a place
in my life where I I actuallyreally enjoy that. And that has
(16:57):
not always been the case. What's
Morgan (16:59):
different? Do you think what's given you that ability to
do that? I don't
Chris (17:02):
know. I've just been doing a lot of work on it, a lot
of work on just trying to bemore accepting of myself, be
more gentle with myself, be moreclear about who I am and what I
want, and as all of thosedifferent avenues of work kind
of and again, it's the 4%doesn't happen all at once, as
(17:22):
they sort of bleed together. I'mleft in a place where I'm
starting to really enjoy timejust with myself a lot more.
Yeah, and I'm curious about andI can't really answer it, if
other people notice that like isthe way that I'm showing up for
other people different. Iperceive that it is, but I think
so you're not another person.
Morgan (17:44):
I'm not another. To go back through each of those
through a different lens. Sowords of affirmation, the way
that you talk to yourself inyour head, I mean, that can make
a huge, damn difference. Hugeyour thoughts about yourself
really impact
Chris (18:02):
you Well, and that's why I led with the question of where
is self compassion? Because forme, that is a huge it's just a
beast that I've been working on.
I'm not really good about that.
When I get in a moment, I tendto start criticizing myself, and
then that doesn't send things ina good direction, no. And
Morgan (18:21):
I think we all do that to an extent, right? And how
often are you doing that? Howmuch are you repeating that in
your head all day long, everyday? And
Chris (18:29):
the thing about like you were mentioning the concept of
autopilot, that becomes anautopilot thing, yeah,
Morgan (18:35):
you're not even aware of it, right? Yeah, exactly. And
then acts of service. How manytimes have you finished dinner
with the family and thoughtwe'll take care of the dishes
tomorrow? An act of service foryour future self would be to go
ahead and get it done, right? Sothat tomorrow you wake up and
you're like, man, have you everdone that where you're like, Oh
(18:58):
God, I'm so glad I did that lastnight. Thank you to me. The past
me that did that.
Chris (19:02):
Yes, it's super important. And if you're trying
to eat well, or, you know, do itdo anything really, that takes
that daily habit, you have toput in the acts of service. When
I get home, like last night, thesky was just, you know how when
it rains and it's like the skyis literally puking on you, it's
(19:23):
just like sheets of rain flyinginto the car, and they go and
the cars go by, and it's likeyou can't see anything. And yes,
like, I spent my entire 10 hoursin the car, like driving around
in that and I got home and I wasstarving, and the last thing I
wanted to do was, like, theeasiest thing to do would have
(19:45):
been just pick up a burger onthe way home,
Morgan (19:47):
shove it in your face and be done. It's, yeah, right.
You make a choice to dosomething for your future self,
right? Even though, in themoment, you're like, This sucks.
I don't want to do this rightnow.
Chris (19:58):
And what's interesting is. We're talking about all the
different love languages and howthey can play in in a positive
way when they're not evennecessarily like our primary
love language. Service is not myprimary love language, but it
can really help me out. Yeah, Isaid, you know, I gave an
example of how I try to use thatin my relationships, too.
Morgan (20:21):
It's an exercise, yeah, and I think it's one that we we
could all benefit frompracticing each of these,
because you don't know the kindsof people that you are in
relationship with may have adifferent dominant love language
and feel seen in a different waythan you do. So it is a great
exercise, and you benefit too.
We've already talked aboutquality time through that lens
receiving gifts, I'm gonna buymyself a little blah, blah,
(20:41):
blah,
Chris (20:43):
a brand new MacBook.
Morgan (20:47):
I just had to buy a new computer because this thing, my
old one, crapped out on us whenwe tried to record last week.
I'm still a little bitter, but,but, you know, some people are
really good at that, like, oh, Ideserve this. I'm gonna buy
myself this. And granted thatcan go overboard, but
absolutely, there are times whenyou can set yourself up for,
(21:08):
yes, I'm going to give myself areward for whatever I've done,
or to just acknowledge myself,you know.
Chris (21:15):
So I talked about in my younger life, giving myself
these gifts, and, you know,buying the new iPhone, and what
I've kind of evolved to is I,actually, I still do that, but
I'm much more thoughtful, and Itake a lot more time, like, I
don't, I don't use it as a quickfix. I will decide, like, Okay,
this is what I really want, andI'll research it, and I'll spend
(21:37):
months looking at it, which
Morgan (21:38):
also becomes very fun for you, it becomes extremely
Chris (21:43):
fun. I love it. It's like building up to the moment, you
know, where you finally get thething, yeah. And most of the
time for me, the thing has to dowith some experience that I'm
either, you know, getting readyfor, actually going to use
during the experience. It justall culminates together in this
happiness. I
Morgan (22:01):
love that. And then, and then physical touch this one
might feel. This could go thiscould go sideways. But okay, so
I am trained in Ayurvedictechniques. I don't know if
you're familiar with Ayurveda,but like, go look it up. It's an
ancient thing, yeah, but one ofthe things that they do
routinely, is, and don't takethis a weird way, self massage.
(22:26):
It's called Abhyanga, and it'sliterally like you take oils and
you just massage certain areasof your arms and legs, and it is
a key component of wellness. Andso that's, that's just one
example, you know. But also itcould be something as simple as,
you know, wearing a fuzzy robe,just physical sensation. Yeah.
(22:47):
So, all
Chris (22:48):
right, I'm gonna get a little bit primitive for a
second. But one of the thingsthat I really enjoy watching,
maybe this is a sign I'm reallygetting old. But I like watching
those nature shows.
Morgan (23:01):
I will confirm you are getting old. Hold on. I have to
stop you there, because I justsaw this. This funny reel, the
holder backs Holderness, theHolderness family, everybody
knows who this is, except maybeyou. I don't know, but I don't
know it is you don't. But theHolderness family, the the wife,
did this, this video where sheplays both roles, but she's
(23:24):
like, this woman who is enteringher late 40s or early 50s, and
there's this she's going intothis office, and this woman's
like, okay, yep, next Come sitdown. You are now entering later
life, and so your interests willnow be. And then she spins this
(23:45):
wheel, this wheel, and she'slike, you're gonna be into
birds, so you're gonna buy abird feeder with a camera on it,
and you're gonna talk aboutbirds. You're gonna join a bird
group. And oh my god, that's andthen, and then she said, and
this one, I really felt seen.
She said it could have beenpaint by numbers. I just ordered
a canvas that's a paint bynumbers canvas. I'm like, oh my
(24:05):
god, I'm getting old.
Chris (24:12):
You're like, you're not supposed to say that.
Morgan (24:15):
So anyway, yes, you're getting all right.
Chris (24:18):
So bringing us back to touch. And one of the things
that I just love watching isgorillas and the way that they
interact with each other. Andthere's so much about touch, and
they're just very like nurturingwith each other. It's
communicative too. Yeah? It'samazing. It's fascinating to
watch that. Yeah,
Morgan (24:39):
so let's talk about midlife, then, like we talk
about this shift, at least forme, and this may not be true for
what is it for you? I think forme, early on, my dominant one
was words of affirmation thatreally led me. That was the way
I felt seen, is if someone saidyou did a good job, I remember
(24:59):
even right. It back to yourrelationship with yourself, I
would habitually, I didn't evenknow I was doing it. And then I
caught myself doing it one day,like when I was in dental
school. And I thought, what thefuck that's weird. I would
constantly have this voice in myin my head that said, What did
you do? Well, today, what didwhat did you What were you good
at today? Oh, wow, it was. Itwas so bizarre. And I think the
(25:21):
whole point of me saying that isthat I really I identified so
strongly with whatever it wasthat I got done, and being
acknowledged for that meant thatI was being seen. You know, my
identity was what I got done,what I did, what I accomplished.
And so if someone recognizedthat they they saw me. And so
(25:42):
then I felt more connected,whereas now in midlife, given
that time is scarce, things arethings have changed quite a bit,
and I think I'm also a lot moreself aware than I used to be. I
feel like, you know, I'mconstantly a shit passing in the
night with anybody in my life,except maybe you. Because I feel
like we spend, we spend moretime together virtually, than
(26:05):
than I do with anybody. Butquality time. Quality Time has
become so, so valuable. Back tobeing old, I now understand why
people say the only thing theyreally want, it's my birthday.
What do you want for yourbirthday? I want to be around
the people that I love. I thinknow my my sort of metaphor for
quality time is it's kind oflike a time out in, like a
(26:29):
sports game, like a soccer gameor something. I don't play
sports, but let's just pretendthat I did. But it's kind of
like, you know, taking a timeout, having a huddle with your
team, and having the ability tosort of everything else around
you slows down and doesn'tfilter into the conversation
you're having in that huddle,right? Like I think about
(26:50):
Mother's Day was just recently,and Matt decided that he was
gonna take us to brunch as afamily, and then and mom and dad
came too, and so did my motherin law and all four kids, like
we weren't even talking aboutanything amazing, we weren't
having deep conversation, but tojust be present where we were
all there. I don't know, it wasjust it elicits, like, this warm
(27:13):
feeling. It filled me up, youknow, yeah, and I know, you
know, because quality time isone of your big ones, too.
Chris (27:19):
Yeah. I love the huddle, you know, I have this image of
the football players allhuddling, and the camera, the
camera angle where they put thecamera, like in the middle of
the huddle, and you really feelthe intimacy of that moment. And
there's physical closeness withthat too. Interestingly, no,
yeah, not in yours, not in mine.
No, you're wearing a padded suitand, yeah,
Morgan (27:43):
no, but you're, you're right, there's something and it
doesn't, it doesn't have to belong. A timeout is very brief in
the span of a game, right? Butthere they are periodic.
Chris (27:52):
Yeah, well, that's another good point. Is quality
time really doesn't mean thelength of time you could spend
hours and hours and with someoneand not have quality time. Yeah,
it's not quantity time. Youcould spend five minutes and
have really quality time, yeah,
Morgan (28:05):
the drive to the soccer field with your son. You know
that 15 minutes is the only timeI get that day, but that's
quality sometimes, sometimes itis absolutely not. Well, I
remember
Chris (28:16):
back to the Tennessee trip for a second. I flew all
the way down from New Englandfor a three day trip. It was
kind of crazy, and part of itwas, you guys were already
there, so I ended up having todrive the older two boys a four
hour ride from Louisville toTennessee.
Morgan (28:32):
What a joy to spend four hours with them well.
Chris (28:35):
And here's the thing, like both of them were gonna sit
in the back on their phones thewhole time, the very back, the
very back row of a suburban andI'm driving, and I said, I'm not
going to be your driver, so oneof you is going to sit up here,
and your second oldest sat inthe front with me. And it took
about an hour, but all of asudden the words poured forth.
We just talked about everything,a fascinating range of topics,
(29:00):
for three hours, and I thoughtto myself when I parked the car,
that's why I came on this trip.
If nothing else happens of noteon this trip that would be worth
it as an
Morgan (29:11):
aside, if you ever want to talk to a teenager, put them
in the best time to do it is inthe car. I mean, they don't want
to look you straight in the eye.
You've got them confined.
Obviously, you need to taketheir device away. It'd be
really easy for them to justsurf around on that. But I mean,
that is when we have had some ofour best conversations. Yeah,
Chris (29:31):
I have another question, where did words of affirmation
go for you? You talked aboutthat as being it's still
Morgan (29:38):
there. It absolutely is still there, but it's just not
as it's not like a driver forme, it's not the thing I'm
seeking out anymore,
Chris (29:47):
the thing that came up for me, I don't feel like my
primary love languages havereally changed at all. However,
like quality time and physicaltouch in that order, are kind of
my top. Too. And as I said, I doappreciate all of them, but
those are my core ones, and Ithink that that is true both
externally in the way that Igive and receive to and from
(30:10):
others, but also internally, theway that I relate to myself. But
in my life, what came up for mewhen you were talking is I spent
a lot of time, like coming outof the teenage years and into my
career really, really focused onwords of affirmation and
excelling and getting a 4.0 andbeing recognized, as you know,
(30:35):
becoming the chair of a specialinterest group of a national
association like those. Thosewere very important things for
me. I made them important. Andthere were a lot of words of
affirmation around those, yeah,but they did not charge me up.
They did not fill me in ameaningful way. It was like an
empty search, yes, like I wouldget the thing, I would get the
(30:58):
chairship, I would get thepresident's award, I would make
the 4.0 and yeah, I just had toput another one up and try to
get that one. Yeah, it was neverenough.
Morgan (31:09):
Yeah. And I maybe that's what I'm getting at, is that in
seeking it out the way that Iwas, it was more about feeling
valued, yeah, maybe, and aboutmy worthiness than it was about
connection, but the two are soclosely related. I know I can't
tease it out. It's just
Chris (31:28):
a different thing, like when you sit in a room with the
people that you love, when I sitin a room with the people that I
love, and I feel like they cansee me and I can see them, that
is the greatest affirmation.
Yes, I
Morgan (31:40):
don't know like I when I think about early adulthood, was
it really my love language, orwas it me seeking my worthiness?
Well, that's
Chris (31:50):
what came up for me in my own personal journey. Is I
really connected with words ofaffirmation? But that was about
proving myself and proving thatI was worthy. It didn't really
feed me, and it wasn't actuallythere wasn't love involved in
that. In the same way, wasn't alove language thing, yeah,
Morgan (32:10):
when you flip it around to your relationship with
yourself, one thing I was alwaysreally good at was spending
quality time with myself.
Always, I have always done that,and so I don't know, maybe,
maybe it really was, I wish Icould go back. No, I don't, but
for like, five minutes to takethe test in my 20s and see what
my what my dominant lovelanguage would have been. In
(32:32):
reality, maybe it would havebeen quality time, and I
wouldn't have, I just didn'tthink of it that way. What about
you? Like you say there has notbeen a shift. There
Chris (32:41):
hasn't been a shift in what they are like. The core of
me has always really valued timewith others, focused independent
time with others, which includestouch. Sometimes that touch
comes in the form of physicalplay, like I think about the way
that I interact with your kids,grab them on the shoulders,
(33:03):
wrestle, sometimes, hug, likeall of those things are just
natural parts of quality time.
What's changed for me is I'vebecome more aware of how much I
need that, and I think I'mbecoming as I again back to the
idea of a self relationship. AsI explore that more, I feel like
I'm able to see opportunitiesand take advantage of
(33:28):
opportunities to create thosequality times in new ways. And
that's exciting with yourselfand with others. Or how do you
mean both, yeah, with myself andwith others? That's the real
shift, like I'm starting tounderstand it better, which
means
Morgan (33:41):
that you can be intentional with the way, yes,
that's right. That'sinteresting. So with your
partner, like are your all'sdominant love languages
different. There might
Chris (33:50):
be some nuanceal differences, but the one thing,
at least from my perspective,curious, what she said, Yeah, is
that the commonality is qualitytime. We both have that, and
that is both really strong. Andone of the values that she has
helped me bring to my life isthe idea that you should always
(34:11):
have a trip booked. And for her,the trip is about spending that
quality time. Yeah, and thatcarries over just into daily
life, doing stuff together. Thatis something that I love about
our relationship, and thatreally feeds it, yeah,
Morgan (34:27):
and that makes it, that makes it nice. You're on the
same page in terms of the waythat you feed the relationship.
Now,
Chris (34:33):
I will say that sometimes some of the activities that I
think are really cool are alittle not so much. We don't
agree on those, but we have alot of common ground that we can
pull from
Morgan (34:47):
for me and Matt, his are so clearly, he may say
differently. He's never actuallytaken the quiz, I don't think,
but I would say his are acts ofservice and gifts like hands
down, no. Neither of thosethings are mine. And so there
have been plenty of times where,you know, it just is like, Oh, I
(35:11):
don't know, we have to, kind of,we have to sit down and ask for
what we need, you know, like,and so when I pay attention to
the way that he shows me love,I'm taking note now anyway, of
like, that's how he's showing melove, so that's how I need to
show it to him. I need to bedoing acts of service for him or
giving him gifts to show himthat I love him. Quality Time
(35:32):
isn't so much his. I mean,that's not to say he does not
benefit or enjoy quality time,but like, the concept of quality
time, I think for him, is isdifferent than it is for me. You
Chris (35:43):
know, the thing that just flashed into my mind, it's my
perception, and that's all itis, is that there have been
times where Matt has connectedwith quality time, yeah, and
that's been meaningful. And oneof the things that popped into
my mind was the trip that youguys took a couple years ago to
Italy. It was to celebrate ananniversary, yeah, for our 20
Morgan (36:06):
year anniversary, yeah, yeah, yes. That's what I mean,
is when I think about how we canboth show like, how can we hit
two birds with one stone? Backto systems. We're going with
systems on this. I want to beefficient. No, but like, okay,
for example. And this issomething simple. This is, this
(36:26):
is way on a smaller scale than atrip to Italy. Yeah. One of his
is acts of service. One of mineis quality time. And so, for
whatever reason, we have sort ofarbitrarily deemed Wednesday
night when he's able to get homefrom work early enough he will
help me make dinner. Ooh, andthat I like where this is, yeah,
(36:46):
that for him is an act ofservice, which I appreciate. But
you know, what I appreciate moreis the fact that we're in the
same room, we have a commongoal, and we just chat. That is
quality time.
Chris (36:59):
I love it, though, because, yeah, you kind of fused
both of them together. And so
Morgan (37:03):
that's what I mean. It's like, how do you find ways so
that both people in oneexperience, sometimes are
getting what they need from it?
And that might, again, it looksdifferent for everybody, and but
I think it's worth having aconversation with your partner,
or whoever we're talking about,whatever kind of relationship
we're talking about, of justsitting down and saying, Well,
(37:24):
what would be good for both ofus, where we both feel like
we're getting filled
Chris (37:29):
up? Yeah. So what are the micronutrients? I had a couple
of light bulbs.
Morgan (37:34):
One was that, you know, that it's a two way street,
basically, whether you're theone doing the act or receiving,
there's a connection there. Alsothat I really love the idea of
your relationship with yourselfand having an understanding of
what your love language istowards yourself, and building
habits around that, because itdoes impact the way that you
(37:57):
show up in relationships withother people.
Chris (38:00):
Yeah, when we sat down to do this episode and we're
putting it together, I think Ihadn't emphasized that enough
until I started talking aboutit, and then it just hit me over
the head, yeah, how the lovelanguages relate to that self
relationship? And I think thatI've always thought about it
more externally, so it wasinteresting to transfer it,
Morgan (38:21):
turn it towards yourself. Yes, I agree. Any
others, for me, it's that
Chris (38:26):
all of the love languages are important, and I they're fun
to play around with. And it's afun challenge for me to practice
a different one and see what itfeels like. And somehow I feel
like that helps me understand ita little bit more, how someone
else might feel, whose primarylove language could be different
(38:47):
than mine, and that can lend tothe toolbox, so to speak, when
it comes to just creatingexperiences that everybody feels
good about and gains from. And Ilove your cooking analogy. I
thought that was a really goodexample.
Morgan (39:04):
Yeah, as I'm listening to you say that, I'm I'm
thinking it's like, maybe theones, the love languages that
we're less versed in ourselvesare simply opportunities that we
can explore to connect in adifferent way. Yeah, you know.
Chris (39:20):
And the other thing that resonates for me is
intentionality, and just havingintention around how you're
interacting with yourself andothers, and the love languages
is a nice little tool that youcan kind of superimpose and and
look at it through this lens. I
Morgan (39:37):
know another thing that I wanted to say is that giving
grace to the other person in arelationship, because if, if
their love language is differentthan yours, they might be really
trying to show you how much theylove you and to connect with
you, just in a differentlanguage than the one that
you're used to. And so I guesswhat I'm saying is don't throw
(39:58):
the baby out with the bathwater.
You know. Like,
Chris (40:00):
yeah, so I love the word that you said grace, and the
other one that came up actuallyrhymes with grace. It's space.
Morgan (40:12):
We should write poetry.
Chris (40:14):
I am so smart. I love it when I do that. But honestly,
creating the space, yeah, tojust talk about those things and
recognize and even express, likewhat's going on is that is
helpful. There's so many timesin life where we just miss each
other, I know and we're notwe're not meaning.
Morgan (40:36):
It really does feel like sometimes we're standing in an
airport talking differentlanguages, just trying to figure
out the same thing, you know? Sookay,
Chris (40:50):
just drop the mic.
Morgan (40:52):
So I feel good about about love languages. So we're
going to link the quiz. Forthose of you who who have never
taken it, you know, we'll linkit in the show notes. Sit down,
have a conversation. Learn whatyour love language is, if you
don't know
Chris (41:06):
it, write a poem. Write a poem
Morgan (41:09):
with words that rhyme and that is that. So tell us
your love language, success andfailure stories. If you've got
any, we want to hear it. Hittalk to us in the show notes and
leave us a message a littlevoicemail,
Chris (41:25):
and also, just as a reminder, we do send out
correspondence and emails afterevery episode, inviting our
community. So if you are notpart of the community, you can
go to the midlife mud.com/joinand hit the button that says,
get muddy. Get
Morgan (41:43):
muddy with us. Get muddy. Get muddy. And gives us
the opportunity to continue theconversation of whatever we're
talking about an episode. So wehope you join us and have a
wonderful rest of your day, and
Chris (41:56):
we'll see you next time in the mud.
Good morning. Good morning. How are you I'm doing
(00:03):
well. How are you I'mcaffeinating. So I'm doing well.
I'm getting I'm getting well.
Chris (00:10):
I am very feisty this morning because I woke up at 430
which is not just for today, butkind of back to the time
episode, a little bit. Iactually did some homework. It's
funny how these things end upgiving me homework. These things
being our episodes, thispodcast, you know, it gets me
(00:31):
engaged in learning and kind ofgrowing in my own way. And I
listened to the James clearbook.
Morgan (00:38):
It was so good, right? I did too. And, my God, it was
awesome. We're a little behindon this one. We're a little
behind,
Chris (00:45):
but I'm used to being slow, so it's okay, but I really
felt like I'm strong in figuringout, like, what I want in life
right now, right? I'm doing agood job of that, but the piece
that I've been missing is thehabit, so I've just been playing
around with a little bit of anew mantra on life, and some of
(01:06):
it is having to do with physicalfitness and just eating better.
So I've been getting up andreally also obtaining that magic
part of the day for me, where mybrain works the best. I know the
downside is it means I'm gettingup at 430 and I go to bed at
like, 830
Morgan (01:22):
I mean, that's how everybody wants to live their
life, right? I wish I were oneof those people that could do
with four hours of sleep.
Chris (01:30):
It's not bad. I mean, like, what the fuck am I doing
at 10 o'clock at night, fightingto watch something or read
something, or, I don't know,just go to sleep.
Morgan (01:39):
It's something about having downtime though, you
know, yeah, and quality timewith family and stuff for me,
you know, like I if I go to bedat nine, my son's not even home
from work yet, so I can go awhole day without seeing him.
Chris (01:51):
Well, I'm lucky, because we live in a house where we just
shut it down at 830 well, you
Morgan (01:56):
can right now, but that'll change as they get
older. Well,
Chris (01:59):
and here we go. It is getting into the summer vibe, I
know. So the summer vibe isgonna fuck with all of this. So
my little world, all my littleideas, we're gonna really test
them. They're gonna get shit
Morgan (02:13):
all over. Yes, I know, but your intentions are good,
but I love what you're saying,because it's true for me too.
It's not that we're sitting herejust talking about this stuff.
It's actually getting us intoaction too. Yeah. So that's
really cool, because I've alsobeen doing the same thing after
we talked about time, and it waslike, Oh, well, morning time is
sort of my sweet spot in termsof productivity, and I'm
(02:37):
squandering it. Why would I dothat? And so I have started to
get up at 530 I'm not a 430person, and that has been really
good so far. It's like, oh, Ihave this whole day, yeah, after
I get all these things done, andit's, it's a, it's a game
changer. So I like the idea, themain idea of the atomic habits
book, which is that, you know,you put systems in place, and
(03:01):
boy, am I a systems person. Ilove systems. You
Chris (03:04):
really are, like, I think I probably more of a systems
person than I come across. Ireally, you are really, really
like systems, but you take it toa level beyond me, which is
awesome. Like, I love that.
Morgan (03:17):
I mean, it can be to a fault sometimes, because if you,
if you systemize everything,yeah, you're not always thinking
about what you're doing, right?
And so you have to consistentlyevaluate your systems to make
sure they're actually effective.
But I just love getting a systemin place so that I can have more
brain I don't have to think somuch about it, and I have more
(03:38):
brain power for other things. Sothe other
Chris (03:40):
thing that I just love about, like, conceptually, that
that book is talking about, hebrings up this idea of the 4%
all you're really trying to dois get 4% better than the last
time you did something. Yeah?
And it just makes it soapproachable. If you make it 50%
then you're setting yourself upfor failure, and then the
likelihood of doing it again islower, right?
Morgan (04:02):
Yeah, you're overwhelmed. And so this week
it's like, I'm just gonna get upearlier, and then next week
it's, I'm gonna add in data, youknow, right?
Chris (04:09):
So next year, when I take you to a blue run, just when you
before you go down 4% 4% 4% justsay that mantra that was not 4%
Morgan (04:21):
now maybe by then it will be because I got a ski pass
and I'm gonna learn, damn itall.
Chris (04:26):
Right, what are we talking about today? So I'll
start
Morgan (04:30):
with something that happened recently that kind of
made me think of this as aninteresting topic for one of our
episodes. So my daughter, myyoungest, she is 10, yeah, and
she is an interesting soul.
Chris (04:45):
But just to clarify the life that she wandered into,
she's the youngest girl of four,and she has three older
brothers,
Morgan (04:53):
and the next oldest brother right now is 13. So God
bless her. I know a poor thing.
It's. Yeah, but she has thislittle friend who recently had
to put her dog to sleep, who shejust loved and adored, and that
really touched my daughter in away that she wanted to do
something to make it better. Andher version of doing that was to
(05:14):
come to me and say, Hey, Mom, Ineed you to go pick up a basket,
and then we're going to go onAmazon, and we're going to
collect all these little thingsthat my friend really likes. I'm
just, I'm going to make thislittle, this little gift basket
for her. And one of the thingsthat she asked to make was this
pillow customized with a pictureof the dog, which she asked her
(05:39):
friend to send to her. A fewyears ago, I had given all of
the kids one of their owncustomized pillows. All the
kids, by the way, love thatpillow, and so she wanted one
for her friend to have of herdog. And so of course, I just
thought, wow, this is so sweetthat she does this. And she did.
She put together this amazinglittle basket with this big old
(06:01):
dog pillow and these littlecandies that this friend of hers
really likes and her favoritegum and chips and things like
that. It's a care package. Andwhat I notice is like, this is
something my daughter doesroutinely. She puts a ton of
thought into gifts for people.
(06:22):
And it isn't about the materialthing. It's about, hey, I know
you right. I'm I'm thinkingabout you. I see you exactly.
Yeah, she did it for me theother day, like, Okay, so
remember when you and I went on?
Well, we went with the family toGatlinburg, yeah, and I left my
my special neck pillow that Isleep on, which also had, like,
(06:44):
a special pillowcase on it.
Yeah, I left it there. And Ididn't even realize until I got
home, and there was no way I wasgetting that back. And so I
really wanted to get anotherpillowcase, but I didn't for the
longest time. And then about amonth ago, I finally was like,
Okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonnaorder one of those pillowcases.
Yeah, my daughter, when she sawit, she said, When did you get
(07:04):
that? And I said, I just, I justgot it. And she said, You ruined
my Mother's Day present. That'swhat I was gonna get for you.
Chris (07:12):
So she held that from October until Mother's Day. Yes,
that's amazing. And
Morgan (07:16):
she's 10, Wow,
Chris (07:18):
it's amazing. Yeah.
Really is amazing. Yeah.
Morgan (07:21):
So it got me thinking.
And this also stems from aconversation I was having with a
good friend of mine about lovelanguages and how you Yeah, how
you show love and how youreceive love. And so I thought
that's definitely worth talkingabout. I'm sure a lot of people
are familiar with the lovelanguages. But I also kind of
wanted to think about, how doesbeing in midlife impact that, if
at all, right, and it may bedifferent for for different
(07:43):
people, what are they? Well,first of all, there is a book,
I'm sure a lot of people, Ithink this was written like in
the 90s or something. Yeah,it's, it's been around for a
while. Yeah, people know aboutit. Some people know about it.
People do. Yeah, it's out there.
The book is called LoveLanguages by Gary Chapman, for
anyone who who doesn't knowabout it and wants to read it,
(08:04):
but essentially, there are fivedifferent love languages, and
the first one is words ofaffirmation, which is basically
just say something nice aboutme. You know that's that's how I
feel seen. Is for you toacknowledge that I'm working
hard, or that I'm doing well atsomething, or it doesn't have to
be fancy, it doesn't have to bepoetic, just like a hey, I see
(08:28):
you. All
Chris (08:28):
right, let's practice that one. I really appreciate
the way that you organize ouroutlines in our Google Drive in
preparation for these podcasts.
Well,
Morgan (08:39):
thank you. I appreciate that. Would that
Chris (08:41):
count? That would absolutely
Morgan (08:42):
count. Yes, all right, acts of service is another one,
and that's my husband's 100%which is just to show me that
you love me by by doingsomething that I don't have the
energy to do right now. Youknow, it doesn't have to be
again, any big thing. It's likefold the towels that are sitting
in the laundry basket. It's nicethat you're putting in the
(09:05):
effort and trying to lighten the
Chris (09:07):
load. So acts of service is not like my natural language.
But I go in and out of all ofthese, and I have practiced some
of the ones that are not mynatural ones. An example that
I'm thinking about this for me,like a way that I try to do acts
of service is if the laundrycomes out of the machine, you
(09:27):
know, out of the dryer, thenI'll take all the clothes and
fold them all up and lay themout. Now, I don't put them away,
because I always do that wrong,but I at least lay them out. So
I'm not sure if I'm reallygetting full credit, or, yeah,
you are. You're gettingsomething there, but the effort
is there, and the other one isjust going to do the grocery
(09:48):
shopping, which is sort of aBelieber task in our house, but
like I, I think literally, justbeing there physically and doing
the grocery shopping side byside. Yeah. Is somewhat of act
of service, Yeah,
Morgan (10:02):
or like, when Matt's driving the kids all over the
country to go to their sportingevent, that is an act of service
to his kids and to me, because Idon't like have the energy and
time to do that all the time, orever so
Chris (10:16):
it honey, it's fine. We can go to St Louis for the day.
It's all we'll be back bymidnight,
Morgan (10:23):
and that's exactly how he is. I know it. But what I
love about that one is that itis, it is walking the talk. It's
not just saying they're gonna dosomething. It is, it's just
doing it. And a lot of timesyou're not even saying you're
gonna do it. You just go do it.
Yeah. And that can mean a wholelot. Another one is quality
time, which speaks for itself,spending time together, actually
being present, though. It'sabout really being with a
(10:44):
person, yeah, instead of lettingall the chaos kind of infiltrate
into your time together, yourrelationship. So
Chris (10:53):
this one really like lights, my soul, me too. This is
kind of one of my primarylanguages. And, you know, I
think about our episode on leveltwo, fun, and the trip that we
took to New Mexico, you justbrought up Tennessee. And I love
that experience that you and Ihad with your daughter riding
the horses through themountains. That was awesome. And
(11:17):
that's worth 1000 things to me,more than 1000 things
Morgan (11:21):
well. And in that case, especially there's, there's some
element of doing something newtogether, exploring something
new that feels very quality, youknow? Because I think when
you're doing something new,you're also really a lot more
present. At least I am. Inoticed that in my marriage too,
like when we when we gosomewhere we've never been.
(11:41):
Yeah? We can both really bethere instead of, oh, we're
going on the same place. Wealways go and ordering the same
food, and it's all the sameexperience. We forget that it
ever happened. Yeah? So gifts,as we talked about at the very
beginning, receiving gifts. Thisone, I don't understand as much.
You know, this is not mine, butI do understand it. Now, when I
(12:03):
look at it, like when I see mydaughter doing it, yeah, because
I can see where it comes from.
If a
Chris (12:09):
gift is really well thought out, and the gift is
saying, I really see you, thatis a special kind of gift. Now,
the other thing is, you cancross these a little bit where,
like if I gave a gift of a trip,that's quality time, but it's
also a gift. It's true,
Morgan (12:28):
it's true. And then the last one is physical touch,
which goes without saying,that's
Chris (12:34):
your primary Oh, my God,
Morgan (12:37):
don't touch me with a 10 foot pole.
Chris (12:40):
Get away from me.
Morgan (12:43):
But some people, like, for you, some people, it's a
really big it's a really bigdeal.
Chris (12:47):
And I just want to put it out here, like, when, when we
talk about physical touch, it'snot, we're not talking about
sexual touch, no, although itcould be, that's included, that
could be, but that's just partof it, like, don't get stuck in
that part. It's, it's literally,
Morgan (13:03):
like, giving your child a hug, patting a friend on the
back when they're really goingthrough something. I mean,
that's physical touch. Yeah. Thereason I wanted to talk about
all of these is number one,like, we all have some of that.
There's usually one or two thatare the most dominant, and you
can actually go take a free quizonline to figure out what yours
is, if you don't already knowit. But what's interesting is
(13:26):
the way that you relate topeople you know their love
language, their dominant one maybe very different than yours,
and so how you show them loveyou're going to want to do it in
their language, and vice versa.
The other piece that I findinteresting is that, you know,
midlife shakes things up. Andfor me, I think it's my my
dominant language has changed alittle bit. And so I was just
(13:49):
curious to kind of talk aboutthat and explore that here with
our little muddy community. WhenI say, like, midlife shakes
things up, I think about how ourpriorities now are often really
different than they were when wewere in our 20s. Things are just
different. Our time is spentdifferently. Time feels a lot
more scarce than it did before.
(14:10):
Yes, we've got the whole thingwhere our physical bodies are
changing, and so does ourrelationship with it. And so
physical touch might be a littleawkward, you know? It just it
changes things a little bit. AndI think it can be really easy to
fall into sort of this autopilotsituation in our relationships,
in midlife in particular,because we're so busy and things
(14:31):
are crazy, and if we're notreally paying attention to the
way that we show love or receivelove, we don't like check in
with ourselves and the otherperson, it can lead to that
disconnection, that resentmentand so really coming back to
evaluate, hey, how do I feelseen in this relationship right
now? I feel like that'simportant. Where
Chris (14:53):
does self compassion fit into all of that? And by saying
that, I mean my relationshipwith myself, you're.
Relationship with yourself, andhow am I loving myself
absolutely, you know, how am Itreating myself? And I think
that is so critical, and that'ssomething that if I really look
at it through that lens, I'vebeen through a big evolution,
(15:15):
you know, from childhood untilnow, around that, and I'm still
going through, yeah,
Morgan (15:19):
so, so you're saying there's been some kind of shift
for you, if you consider thatlove languages can apply to your
relationship with yourself,which I I agree. I think they
do.
Chris (15:29):
Yeah, so often. And this is the way that I always
interpreted the love languagestuff was really how I'm
relating to other people and howthey're relating to me. I never
really thought about it untilrecently, in terms of, how do I
relate to myself, and what I amlearning and experiencing in
life is that the way that Itreat myself cascades out to the
(15:52):
way that I treat others, andthat's really not a very
conscious thing. A lot of timesI'm becoming more conscious
about it, but it's aninteresting little connection.
Yeah,
Morgan (16:02):
it is. So what I'm curious then, what has the shift
been for you?
Chris (16:06):
Well, it's really kind of funny, because I told you that
my key love language is qualitytime, and yet I spent the
predominant amount of my lifebetween 20 and 40 running away
from myself, right? Not spendingquality time. I'm gonna give
myself a gift though. I'm gonnabuy myself a new phone, and I'm
(16:27):
gonna, yeah, right. That's
Morgan (16:28):
really interesting, really interesting.
Chris (16:33):
So the shift is I'm coming back to quality time with
myself. And it's funny, becausewe really were just talking
about that in the beginning ofthis show with time. You know, I
was talking about getting up at430 in the morning. But part of
that is I have time every daywith myself, and I'm at a place
in my life where I I actuallyreally enjoy that. And that has
(16:57):
not always been the case. What's
Morgan (16:59):
different? Do you think what's given you that ability to
do that? I don't
Chris (17:02):
know. I've just been doing a lot of work on it, a lot
of work on just trying to bemore accepting of myself, be
more gentle with myself, be moreclear about who I am and what I
want, and as all of thosedifferent avenues of work kind
of and again, it's the 4%doesn't happen all at once, as
(17:22):
they sort of bleed together. I'mleft in a place where I'm
starting to really enjoy timejust with myself a lot more.
Yeah, and I'm curious about andI can't really answer it, if
other people notice that like isthe way that I'm showing up for
other people different. Iperceive that it is, but I think
so you're not another person.
Morgan (17:44):
I'm not another. To go back through each of those
through a different lens. Sowords of affirmation, the way
that you talk to yourself inyour head, I mean, that can make
a huge, damn difference. Hugeyour thoughts about yourself
really impact
Chris (18:02):
you Well, and that's why I led with the question of where
is self compassion? Because forme, that is a huge it's just a
beast that I've been working on.
I'm not really good about that.
When I get in a moment, I tendto start criticizing myself, and
then that doesn't send things ina good direction, no. And
Morgan (18:21):
I think we all do that to an extent, right? And how
often are you doing that? Howmuch are you repeating that in
your head all day long, everyday? And
Chris (18:29):
the thing about like you were mentioning the concept of
autopilot, that becomes anautopilot thing, yeah,
Morgan (18:35):
you're not even aware of it, right? Yeah, exactly. And
then acts of service. How manytimes have you finished dinner
with the family and thoughtwe'll take care of the dishes
tomorrow? An act of service foryour future self would be to go
ahead and get it done, right? Sothat tomorrow you wake up and
you're like, man, have you everdone that where you're like, Oh
(18:58):
God, I'm so glad I did that lastnight. Thank you to me. The past
me that did that.
Chris (19:02):
Yes, it's super important. And if you're trying
to eat well, or, you know, do itdo anything really, that takes
that daily habit, you have toput in the acts of service. When
I get home, like last night, thesky was just, you know how when
it rains and it's like the skyis literally puking on you, it's
(19:23):
just like sheets of rain flyinginto the car, and they go and
the cars go by, and it's likeyou can't see anything. And yes,
like, I spent my entire 10 hoursin the car, like driving around
in that and I got home and I wasstarving, and the last thing I
wanted to do was, like, theeasiest thing to do would have
(19:45):
been just pick up a burger onthe way home,
Morgan (19:47):
shove it in your face and be done. It's, yeah, right.
You make a choice to dosomething for your future self,
right? Even though, in themoment, you're like, This sucks.
I don't want to do this rightnow.
Chris (19:58):
And what's interesting is. We're talking about all the
different love languages and howthey can play in in a positive
way when they're not evennecessarily like our primary
love language. Service is not myprimary love language, but it
can really help me out. Yeah, Isaid, you know, I gave an
example of how I try to use thatin my relationships, too.
Morgan (20:21):
It's an exercise, yeah, and I think it's one that we we
could all benefit frompracticing each of these,
because you don't know the kindsof people that you are in
relationship with may have adifferent dominant love language
and feel seen in a different waythan you do. So it is a great
exercise, and you benefit too.
We've already talked aboutquality time through that lens
receiving gifts, I'm gonna buymyself a little blah, blah,
(20:41):
blah,
Chris (20:43):
a brand new MacBook.
Morgan (20:47):
I just had to buy a new computer because this thing, my
old one, crapped out on us whenwe tried to record last week.
I'm still a little bitter, but,but, you know, some people are
really good at that, like, oh, Ideserve this. I'm gonna buy
myself this. And granted thatcan go overboard, but
absolutely, there are times whenyou can set yourself up for,
(21:08):
yes, I'm going to give myself areward for whatever I've done,
or to just acknowledge myself,you know.
Chris (21:15):
So I talked about in my younger life, giving myself
these gifts, and, you know,buying the new iPhone, and what
I've kind of evolved to is I,actually, I still do that, but
I'm much more thoughtful, and Itake a lot more time, like, I
don't, I don't use it as a quickfix. I will decide, like, Okay,
this is what I really want, andI'll research it, and I'll spend
(21:37):
months looking at it, which
Morgan (21:38):
also becomes very fun for you, it becomes extremely
Chris (21:43):
fun. I love it. It's like building up to the moment, you
know, where you finally get thething, yeah. And most of the
time for me, the thing has to dowith some experience that I'm
either, you know, getting readyfor, actually going to use
during the experience. It justall culminates together in this
happiness. I
Morgan (22:01):
love that. And then, and then physical touch this one
might feel. This could go thiscould go sideways. But okay, so
I am trained in Ayurvedictechniques. I don't know if
you're familiar with Ayurveda,but like, go look it up. It's an
ancient thing, yeah, but one ofthe things that they do
routinely, is, and don't takethis a weird way, self massage.
(22:26):
It's called Abhyanga, and it'sliterally like you take oils and
you just massage certain areasof your arms and legs, and it is
a key component of wellness. Andso that's, that's just one
example, you know. But also itcould be something as simple as,
you know, wearing a fuzzy robe,just physical sensation. Yeah.
(22:47):
So, all
Chris (22:48):
right, I'm gonna get a little bit primitive for a
second. But one of the thingsthat I really enjoy watching,
maybe this is a sign I'm reallygetting old. But I like watching
those nature shows.
Morgan (23:01):
I will confirm you are getting old. Hold on. I have to
stop you there, because I justsaw this. This funny reel, the
holder backs Holderness, theHolderness family, everybody
knows who this is, except maybeyou. I don't know, but I don't
know it is you don't. But theHolderness family, the the wife,
did this, this video where sheplays both roles, but she's
(23:24):
like, this woman who is enteringher late 40s or early 50s, and
there's this she's going intothis office, and this woman's
like, okay, yep, next Come sitdown. You are now entering later
life, and so your interests willnow be. And then she spins this
(23:45):
wheel, this wheel, and she'slike, you're gonna be into
birds, so you're gonna buy abird feeder with a camera on it,
and you're gonna talk aboutbirds. You're gonna join a bird
group. And oh my god, that's andthen, and then she said, and
this one, I really felt seen.
She said it could have beenpaint by numbers. I just ordered
a canvas that's a paint bynumbers canvas. I'm like, oh my
(24:05):
god, I'm getting old.
Chris (24:12):
You're like, you're not supposed to say that.
Morgan (24:15):
So anyway, yes, you're getting all right.
Chris (24:18):
So bringing us back to touch. And one of the things
that I just love watching isgorillas and the way that they
interact with each other. Andthere's so much about touch, and
they're just very like nurturingwith each other. It's
communicative too. Yeah? It'samazing. It's fascinating to
watch that. Yeah,
Morgan (24:39):
so let's talk about midlife, then, like we talk
about this shift, at least forme, and this may not be true for
what is it for you? I think forme, early on, my dominant one
was words of affirmation thatreally led me. That was the way
I felt seen, is if someone saidyou did a good job, I remember
(24:59):
even right. It back to yourrelationship with yourself, I
would habitually, I didn't evenknow I was doing it. And then I
caught myself doing it one day,like when I was in dental
school. And I thought, what thefuck that's weird. I would
constantly have this voice in myin my head that said, What did
you do? Well, today, what didwhat did you What were you good
at today? Oh, wow, it was. Itwas so bizarre. And I think the
(25:21):
whole point of me saying that isthat I really I identified so
strongly with whatever it wasthat I got done, and being
acknowledged for that meant thatI was being seen. You know, my
identity was what I got done,what I did, what I accomplished.
And so if someone recognizedthat they they saw me. And so
(25:42):
then I felt more connected,whereas now in midlife, given
that time is scarce, things arethings have changed quite a bit,
and I think I'm also a lot moreself aware than I used to be. I
feel like, you know, I'mconstantly a shit passing in the
night with anybody in my life,except maybe you. Because I feel
like we spend, we spend moretime together virtually, than
(26:05):
than I do with anybody. Butquality time. Quality Time has
become so, so valuable. Back tobeing old, I now understand why
people say the only thing theyreally want, it's my birthday.
What do you want for yourbirthday? I want to be around
the people that I love. I thinknow my my sort of metaphor for
quality time is it's kind oflike a time out in, like a
(26:29):
sports game, like a soccer gameor something. I don't play
sports, but let's just pretendthat I did. But it's kind of
like, you know, taking a timeout, having a huddle with your
team, and having the ability tosort of everything else around
you slows down and doesn'tfilter into the conversation
you're having in that huddle,right? Like I think about
(26:50):
Mother's Day was just recently,and Matt decided that he was
gonna take us to brunch as afamily, and then and mom and dad
came too, and so did my motherin law and all four kids, like
we weren't even talking aboutanything amazing, we weren't
having deep conversation, but tojust be present where we were
all there. I don't know, it wasjust it elicits, like, this warm
(27:13):
feeling. It filled me up, youknow, yeah, and I know, you
know, because quality time isone of your big ones, too.
Chris (27:19):
Yeah. I love the huddle, you know, I have this image of
the football players allhuddling, and the camera, the
camera angle where they put thecamera, like in the middle of
the huddle, and you really feelthe intimacy of that moment. And
there's physical closeness withthat too. Interestingly, no,
yeah, not in yours, not in mine.
No, you're wearing a padded suitand, yeah,
Morgan (27:43):
no, but you're, you're right, there's something and it
doesn't, it doesn't have to belong. A timeout is very brief in
the span of a game, right? Butthere they are periodic.
Chris (27:52):
Yeah, well, that's another good point. Is quality
time really doesn't mean thelength of time you could spend
hours and hours and with someoneand not have quality time. Yeah,
it's not quantity time. Youcould spend five minutes and
have really quality time, yeah,
Morgan (28:05):
the drive to the soccer field with your son. You know
that 15 minutes is the only timeI get that day, but that's
quality sometimes, sometimes itis absolutely not. Well, I
remember
Chris (28:16):
back to the Tennessee trip for a second. I flew all
the way down from New Englandfor a three day trip. It was
kind of crazy, and part of itwas, you guys were already
there, so I ended up having todrive the older two boys a four
hour ride from Louisville toTennessee.
Morgan (28:32):
What a joy to spend four hours with them well.
Chris (28:35):
And here's the thing, like both of them were gonna sit
in the back on their phones thewhole time, the very back, the
very back row of a suburban andI'm driving, and I said, I'm not
going to be your driver, so oneof you is going to sit up here,
and your second oldest sat inthe front with me. And it took
about an hour, but all of asudden the words poured forth.
We just talked about everything,a fascinating range of topics,
(29:00):
for three hours, and I thoughtto myself when I parked the car,
that's why I came on this trip.
If nothing else happens of noteon this trip that would be worth
it as an
Morgan (29:11):
aside, if you ever want to talk to a teenager, put them
in the best time to do it is inthe car. I mean, they don't want
to look you straight in the eye.
You've got them confined.
Obviously, you need to taketheir device away. It'd be
really easy for them to justsurf around on that. But I mean,
that is when we have had some ofour best conversations. Yeah,
Chris (29:31):
I have another question, where did words of affirmation
go for you? You talked aboutthat as being it's still
Morgan (29:38):
there. It absolutely is still there, but it's just not
as it's not like a driver forme, it's not the thing I'm
seeking out anymore,
Chris (29:47):
the thing that came up for me, I don't feel like my
primary love languages havereally changed at all. However,
like quality time and physicaltouch in that order, are kind of
my top. Too. And as I said, I doappreciate all of them, but
those are my core ones, and Ithink that that is true both
externally in the way that Igive and receive to and from
(30:10):
others, but also internally, theway that I relate to myself. But
in my life, what came up for mewhen you were talking is I spent
a lot of time, like coming outof the teenage years and into my
career really, really focused onwords of affirmation and
excelling and getting a 4.0 andbeing recognized, as you know,
(30:35):
becoming the chair of a specialinterest group of a national
association like those. Thosewere very important things for
me. I made them important. Andthere were a lot of words of
affirmation around those, yeah,but they did not charge me up.
They did not fill me in ameaningful way. It was like an
empty search, yes, like I wouldget the thing, I would get the
(30:58):
chairship, I would get thepresident's award, I would make
the 4.0 and yeah, I just had toput another one up and try to
get that one. Yeah, it was neverenough.
Morgan (31:09):
Yeah. And I maybe that's what I'm getting at, is that in
seeking it out the way that Iwas, it was more about feeling
valued, yeah, maybe, and aboutmy worthiness than it was about
connection, but the two are soclosely related. I know I can't
tease it out. It's just
Chris (31:28):
a different thing, like when you sit in a room with the
people that you love, when I sitin a room with the people that I
love, and I feel like they cansee me and I can see them, that
is the greatest affirmation.
Yes, I
Morgan (31:40):
don't know like I when I think about early adulthood, was
it really my love language, orwas it me seeking my worthiness?
Well, that's
Chris (31:50):
what came up for me in my own personal journey. Is I
really connected with words ofaffirmation? But that was about
proving myself and proving thatI was worthy. It didn't really
feed me, and it wasn't actuallythere wasn't love involved in
that. In the same way, wasn't alove language thing, yeah,
Morgan (32:10):
when you flip it around to your relationship with
yourself, one thing I was alwaysreally good at was spending
quality time with myself.
Always, I have always done that,and so I don't know, maybe,
maybe it really was, I wish Icould go back. No, I don't, but
for like, five minutes to takethe test in my 20s and see what
my what my dominant lovelanguage would have been. In
(32:32):
reality, maybe it would havebeen quality time, and I
wouldn't have, I just didn'tthink of it that way. What about
you? Like you say there has notbeen a shift. There
Chris (32:41):
hasn't been a shift in what they are like. The core of
me has always really valued timewith others, focused independent
time with others, which includestouch. Sometimes that touch
comes in the form of physicalplay, like I think about the way
that I interact with your kids,grab them on the shoulders,
(33:03):
wrestle, sometimes, hug, likeall of those things are just
natural parts of quality time.
What's changed for me is I'vebecome more aware of how much I
need that, and I think I'mbecoming as I again back to the
idea of a self relationship. AsI explore that more, I feel like
I'm able to see opportunitiesand take advantage of
(33:28):
opportunities to create thosequality times in new ways. And
that's exciting with yourselfand with others. Or how do you
mean both, yeah, with myself andwith others? That's the real
shift, like I'm starting tounderstand it better, which
means
Morgan (33:41):
that you can be intentional with the way, yes,
that's right. That'sinteresting. So with your
partner, like are your all'sdominant love languages
different. There might
Chris (33:50):
be some nuanceal differences, but the one thing,
at least from my perspective,curious, what she said, Yeah, is
that the commonality is qualitytime. We both have that, and
that is both really strong. Andone of the values that she has
helped me bring to my life isthe idea that you should always
(34:11):
have a trip booked. And for her,the trip is about spending that
quality time. Yeah, and thatcarries over just into daily
life, doing stuff together. Thatis something that I love about
our relationship, and thatreally feeds it, yeah,
Morgan (34:27):
and that makes it, that makes it nice. You're on the
same page in terms of the waythat you feed the relationship.
Now,
Chris (34:33):
I will say that sometimes some of the activities that I
think are really cool are alittle not so much. We don't
agree on those, but we have alot of common ground that we can
pull from
Morgan (34:47):
for me and Matt, his are so clearly, he may say
differently. He's never actuallytaken the quiz, I don't think,
but I would say his are acts ofservice and gifts like hands
down, no. Neither of thosethings are mine. And so there
have been plenty of times where,you know, it just is like, Oh, I
(35:11):
don't know, we have to, kind of,we have to sit down and ask for
what we need, you know, like,and so when I pay attention to
the way that he shows me love,I'm taking note now anyway, of
like, that's how he's showing melove, so that's how I need to
show it to him. I need to bedoing acts of service for him or
giving him gifts to show himthat I love him. Quality Time
(35:32):
isn't so much his. I mean,that's not to say he does not
benefit or enjoy quality time,but like, the concept of quality
time, I think for him, is isdifferent than it is for me. You
Chris (35:43):
know, the thing that just flashed into my mind, it's my
perception, and that's all itis, is that there have been
times where Matt has connectedwith quality time, yeah, and
that's been meaningful. And oneof the things that popped into
my mind was the trip that youguys took a couple years ago to
Italy. It was to celebrate ananniversary, yeah, for our 20
Morgan (36:06):
year anniversary, yeah, yeah, yes. That's what I mean,
is when I think about how we canboth show like, how can we hit
two birds with one stone? Backto systems. We're going with
systems on this. I want to beefficient. No, but like, okay,
for example. And this issomething simple. This is, this
(36:26):
is way on a smaller scale than atrip to Italy. Yeah. One of his
is acts of service. One of mineis quality time. And so, for
whatever reason, we have sort ofarbitrarily deemed Wednesday
night when he's able to get homefrom work early enough he will
help me make dinner. Ooh, andthat I like where this is, yeah,
(36:46):
that for him is an act ofservice, which I appreciate. But
you know, what I appreciate moreis the fact that we're in the
same room, we have a commongoal, and we just chat. That is
quality time.
Chris (36:59):
I love it, though, because, yeah, you kind of fused
both of them together. And so
Morgan (37:03):
that's what I mean. It's like, how do you find ways so
that both people in oneexperience, sometimes are
getting what they need from it?
And that might, again, it looksdifferent for everybody, and but
I think it's worth having aconversation with your partner,
or whoever we're talking about,whatever kind of relationship
we're talking about, of justsitting down and saying, Well,
(37:24):
what would be good for both ofus, where we both feel like
we're getting filled
Chris (37:29):
up? Yeah. So what are the micronutrients? I had a couple
of light bulbs.
Morgan (37:34):
One was that, you know, that it's a two way street,
basically, whether you're theone doing the act or receiving,
there's a connection there. Alsothat I really love the idea of
your relationship with yourselfand having an understanding of
what your love language istowards yourself, and building
habits around that, because itdoes impact the way that you
(37:57):
show up in relationships withother people.
Chris (38:00):
Yeah, when we sat down to do this episode and we're
putting it together, I think Ihadn't emphasized that enough
until I started talking aboutit, and then it just hit me over
the head, yeah, how the lovelanguages relate to that self
relationship? And I think thatI've always thought about it
more externally, so it wasinteresting to transfer it,
Morgan (38:21):
turn it towards yourself. Yes, I agree. Any
others, for me, it's that
Chris (38:26):
all of the love languages are important, and I they're fun
to play around with. And it's afun challenge for me to practice
a different one and see what itfeels like. And somehow I feel
like that helps me understand ita little bit more, how someone
else might feel, whose primarylove language could be different
(38:47):
than mine, and that can lend tothe toolbox, so to speak, when
it comes to just creatingexperiences that everybody feels
good about and gains from. And Ilove your cooking analogy. I
thought that was a really goodexample.
Morgan (39:04):
Yeah, as I'm listening to you say that, I'm I'm
thinking it's like, maybe theones, the love languages that
we're less versed in ourselvesare simply opportunities that we
can explore to connect in adifferent way. Yeah, you know.
Chris (39:20):
And the other thing that resonates for me is
intentionality, and just havingintention around how you're
interacting with yourself andothers, and the love languages
is a nice little tool that youcan kind of superimpose and and
look at it through this lens. I
Morgan (39:37):
know another thing that I wanted to say is that giving
grace to the other person in arelationship, because if, if
their love language is differentthan yours, they might be really
trying to show you how much theylove you and to connect with
you, just in a differentlanguage than the one that
you're used to. And so I guesswhat I'm saying is don't throw
(39:58):
the baby out with the bathwater.
You know. Like,
Chris (40:00):
yeah, so I love the word that you said grace, and the
other one that came up actuallyrhymes with grace. It's space.
Morgan (40:12):
We should write poetry.
Chris (40:14):
I am so smart. I love it when I do that. But honestly,
creating the space, yeah, tojust talk about those things and
recognize and even express, likewhat's going on is that is
helpful. There's so many timesin life where we just miss each
other, I know and we're notwe're not meaning.
Morgan (40:36):
It really does feel like sometimes we're standing in an
airport talking differentlanguages, just trying to figure
out the same thing, you know? Sookay,
Chris (40:50):
just drop the mic.
Morgan (40:52):
So I feel good about about love languages. So we're
going to link the quiz. Forthose of you who who have never
taken it, you know, we'll linkit in the show notes. Sit down,
have a conversation. Learn whatyour love language is, if you
don't know
Chris (41:06):
it, write a poem. Write a poem
Morgan (41:09):
with words that rhyme and that is that. So tell us
your love language, success andfailure stories. If you've got
any, we want to hear it. Hittalk to us in the show notes and
leave us a message a littlevoicemail,
Chris (41:25):
and also, just as a reminder, we do send out
correspondence and emails afterevery episode, inviting our
community. So if you are notpart of the community, you can
go to the midlife mud.com/joinand hit the button that says,
get muddy. Get
Morgan (41:43):
muddy with us. Get muddy. Get muddy. And gives us
the opportunity to continue theconversation of whatever we're
talking about an episode. So wehope you join us and have a
wonderful rest of your day, and
Chris (41:56):
we'll see you next time in the mud.
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