November 6, 2024 • 37 mins
Curious about how menopause impacts mental health? Carolyn Thayer, a seasoned leader in mental health and wellness, joins us to shed light on the complex interplay between menopause and emotional well-being. Carolyn shares her expertise on how hormonal shifts influence neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine, leading to heightened anxiety and depression risks. We challenge the idea that menopause is merely a physical transformation, advocating for supportive environments that foster open dialogues about mental health in both personal and professional settings.
Discover practical strategies for managing menopause symptoms with a focus on cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, and breath work. Carolyn passionately explains how these tools, akin to strengthening muscles, can enhance emotional regulation and stress management over time through the power of neuroplasticity. By being present without judgment and using breath work as a calming tool, individuals can rewire their brains for better mental health. From recognizing the signs that therapy might be needed to adopting regular mindfulness practices, we explore actionable ways to cope with the challenges of menopause.
The conversation takes a turn towards advocacy, particularly within the workplace, where creating a supportive culture is paramount. Carolyn offers insights on how women can assert their needs amidst menopause-related challenges like mood swings and brain fog. We emphasize the importance of psychological safety, open communication, and proactive solutions to address mental health resource gaps. Balancing personal and professional obligations becomes a theme as Carolyn shares her mantra for prioritizing tasks, along with her love for fall and her favorite drip coffee with oat milk. This episode is a heartfelt journey towards normalizing discussions about menopause and mental health, helping listeners find joy and understanding in their experiences.
Website: https://carolyn.thayer.azof.fr/services.pdf
LINKS:
Website: https://www.midovia.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymidovia
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/midovia
Email Us: info@midovia.com
MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
The information, including but not limited to, text, graphics, images & other material contained on this website are for informational purposes only. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
trusted source forevidence-based, science-backed
information related to menopause.
Medovia is dedicated tochanging the narrative about
menopause by educating, raisingawareness and supporting women
in this stage of life, both athome and in the workplace.
(00:21):
Visit medoviacom to learn morehome and in the workplace.
Visit Medoviacom to learn more.
I'm one of your hosts, aprilHaberman, and I'm joined by Kim
Hart.
We're co-founders of Medovia,certified health coaches,
registered yoga teachers andmidlife mamas specializing in
menopause.
You're listening to anotherepisode of our podcast, where we
(00:43):
offer expert guidance for themost transformative stage of
life, bringing you realconversations, education and
resources to help you overcomechallenges and reach your full
potential through midlife.
Join us and our special guestseach episode as we bring vibrant
, fun and truthful conversationand let us help you have a
(01:07):
deeper understanding ofmenopause.
Hi everyone, today we haveCarolyn Thayer on the show.
Carolyn has over 15 years ofexperience building strategies,
programs and teams in the mentalhealth and wellness space,
including leadership roles instartups through Fortune 50
(01:28):
organizations.
Grounded in her background incounseling and health psychology
, she brings a uniquecombination of successes and
learnings to integrative mentalhealth and well-being program
leadership.
It seems really timely to haveher on the show and we're happy
to share this episode with you.
(01:50):
Carolyn, welcome to the show.
We're so excited to have youtoday.
Hi, april, yeah, great to behere.
Yeah, this is going to be agreat conversation.
I almost said fun conversation.
I hope we have fun, buthopefully we can have fun
talking about mental health.
Right, it's a very serioustopic and it's something that we
really have not discussed atlength on our show here mental
(02:14):
health and menopause.
So we're thrilled to have youhere and I want to dive right in
, because I know that there area lot of questions that are out
there that our audience has andthere's a lot of content to
cover in a short amount of time.
So, if it's okay with you, I'mgoing to dive right in.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Great.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Okay, perfect.
I want to start by having youhelp us understand how hormonal
changes during menopause impactmental health and what some of
the most common healthchallenges women face during
this time are.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I like to start with just ashared definition or
understanding of mental health,right?
So mental health it's acontinuum, right?
So many times when we talkabout mental health, we think of
and are talking about mentalhealth conditions or mental
illness.
(03:12):
But really, you know, thinkingof mental health as something
that we all have, just likephysical health and that is,
from you know, mentally healthythrough mental illness.
And so I think I just like tokind of lay that foundation.
And for most of us, our mentalhealth ebbs and flows throughout
(03:32):
life and so with that, ofcourse, during menopause, our
bodies go through many bigchanges and great, our bodies go
through many big changes.
And with hormones like estrogenand progesterone, you know, as
(03:53):
they go up and down, they alsoaffect neurotransmitters in our
brain which are closely tied toour mood and our emotions.
So serotonin, for example, thisis what helps us be calm and
happy, and dopamine is is, youknow, kind of the pleasure part
of our part of our brain andthings like focus.
And so, as hormones go up anddown throughout transitions and
(04:18):
experiences like menopause,there's that chemical impact on
our mental health.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, we get a lot of questions about this,
especially people that aresurprised about gosh.
My anxiety went through theroof and I'm probably not a very
nice person anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I don't know why and I feel sad and I don't know why.
Like is what's happening in thebrain as the as the hormones
change, and what can we do tosupport ourselves when we
recognize gosh?
This is happening to me.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
So I mean that's a great justmyth to dispel, right?
That menopause yes, it has bigphysical impacts, but there's
also the mental andpsychological impacts and this
is because as estrogen andprogesterone levels change, they
making serotonin and dopaminelevels change as well and drop,
(05:14):
and this can lead to mood swingsand feelings of anxiety,
depression, and that's why womenare at increased risk of
anxiety and depression duringmenopause.
And this is not yes, it doesyou know pre-existing conditions
of anxiety and depression canworsen, but it's not only people
(05:36):
who have had anxiety anddepression before, right.
So, and in terms of you knowways to to support, I mean
there's a lot right at home andand at work.
I think that a big one is justgetting ahead of any shame or
(05:58):
silence around around menopauseand mental health.
I mean there's so manyparallels between the stigmas
that there is around menopauseand mental health and when
you're having mental healthstruggles, and so you know how
can we create that supportiveculture and environment to have
(06:20):
that open conversation andpsychoeducation about the
realities of.
You know the impact on, focuson, you know brain fog on on our
mental well-being, to normalizeand educate and then from there
, you know, empower to to, youknow, to have some really
(06:41):
practical ways to support peoplein those in those times.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm glad you brought that up.
I mean, mental health certainlyhas come a long way.
In just the past couple ofyears, individuals male, female
wouldn't discuss mental healthin the workplace or even with
one another.
Right, it was very much.
It carried a lot of stigma andshame and I feel like menopause
(07:07):
is just kind of coming out rightnow as well.
You know, kim was on a webinaryesterday and someone asked you
know, how do we start to talkabout menopause in the workplace
?
Because of the shame and thestigma and if I'm having brain
fog, I don't want to be lookedat like I have a disease, like I
(07:28):
need an accommodation, like Iam right that person in the
workplace.
I think it is really importantwhat you brought up, that this
is normal and this is a hormonalreaction, what's happening in
our bodies, and not somethingthat we can help.
Right, it's not a disease andnothing's wrong with me.
(07:53):
I just need a little bit ofsupport.
So I mean, that being said, aswe think about anxiety and
depression, whether it's at homeor at the workplace, what are
some of those coping mechanisms?
How do we?
You, you mentioned training,awareness.
I think that's first andforemost what we need to do
(08:14):
everywhere.
But what are some of thosecoping mechanisms?
If I'm at work and I'm feelinganxious, and I'm feeling
depressed, what can I do?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, I just want to.
What you said is so just, youknow we will get to coping
mechanisms, but what you saidabout the like mental health has
really become more on theforefront and I think that you
know, oftentimes we talk aboutthere are, you know, life
(08:43):
transitions that cause increasedlevels of stress or anxiety,
right, whether that be positivestressors like you know,
marriage or moving, these thingsthat our mental health is
impacted or negative, like griefand loss and job loss, right
and thinking about.
But menopause isn't typicallyin those frameworks of just life
(09:04):
transitions, right.
So I think that that's reallyprofound and something that
could be interesting for youknow, just to kind of anchor
into.
So, in terms of copingstrategies, you know, of course
there's.
I mean, always remembering thatour mental and our physical
health are connected, right, andso thing like focusing on your
(09:28):
well-being as an individual, soyour sleep, your nutrition, your
physical activity, right, ofcourse, distress management
techniques, so things that arealways accessible to us, like
breathing or, you know,mindfulness and social is really
(09:48):
huge.
I think that there's greatopportunity to find that space
to talk about your experiencesin that whether that be at work,
right in an employee resourcegroup or, you know, if you have
that level of psychologicalsafety with your manager, with-
coworkers right friends, or youknow, if you have that level of
psychological safety with yourmanager, with coworkers, right,
(10:11):
friends, family, whatever thatlooks like, just having those
open conversations to rememberI'm not alone.
I'm not alone in this experienceand I'm not alone in the
challenges that come with it.
And then, of course, you know,understand what your employer
offers or what's available toyou in terms of mental health
benefits, Right so, therapy,counseling, you know EAPs,
(10:37):
whatever that looks like, anddon't just become aware of them,
but take advantage of themAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I love that you say that the social aspect is so
important, because one of thethings when we get into the
workplace and start doingtraining people are like, oh my
gosh, you're hearing me, you'reseeing me, I feel like I'm not
going crazy.
And when other people starttalking about it, they feel like
okay, me too Right.
They feel like okay, me tooRight.
(11:09):
You mentioned understand whatyour company offers and take
advantage of therapy.
The menopause society has saidthat cognitive behavioral
therapy is one of the best waysto um to help with your
menopause symptoms, and you know, I think that makes sense on
the surface, but can you talk alittle bit about you know when
someone should consider that andwhy it is helpful?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah.
So you know, I would say thatthere's no right or there's no
certainly wrong time to seek outtherapy in my opinion, right,
mental health is something thatwe don't need to be in crisis to
benefit from counseling ortherapy, right, but there are,
(11:50):
and there's also, you know,there's group support, there's
coaching support, there's a widearray of mental health support,
you know, again, across thatcontinuum, but there are some
times that are, you know, thingsto look out for, when it is
especially important to seek outprofessional help, whether that
(12:12):
be for yourself or if a lovedone or a coworker right, if
you're noticing these things inthem to really, you know, show
up with compassion and care andencourage them to, um, to get,
you know, the support that theyneed.
So a lot of it is around justtime and intensity, right, and
really impact on daily life.
(12:33):
So if you're experiencing, youknow, um, persistent, uh,
changes to your mood, so thingslike, you know, ongoing, like
sadness or even heightenedanxiety or panic attacks that
are affecting, that are ongoingand affecting your daily
(12:55):
functioning, definitely Ifyou're feeling chronic fatigue
or insomnia, of course there'sother things that could be
impacting that, but certainly asignal.
And also, we know that, youknow, a lack of sleep impacts
our mental health as well.
So those two things are aren't.
And then, just, you know, ifyou are having a loss of
(13:15):
interest in activities that youtypically enjoy, right, if
you're maybe not as keen on onseeing or connecting with the
people that you're closest to,or if you have a hobby and
you're not doing that.
Those are all things to justpay attention to as signals that
it might be time to seek outsome additional support.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, I want to come back to something that you said
a few minutes ago, where youtalked about coping mechanisms,
and you know, things that arewithin our control, that are at
our fingertips, like breath workand mindfulness.
I think we can often and we, Isay this includes myself say
(13:57):
that.
But for those that aren'tfamiliar with breath work or
mindfulness or have neverpracticed it before, I think
there's two camps A some peoplethink it's woo woo, like that.
What are you talking about?
That is woo woo.
Or B All right, how do Ibreathe Right?
Or what is mindfulness?
(14:19):
I'm going to go have to lookthat up.
What does it mean?
So I think we can kind of justkind of um reign it in a little
bit.
We can talk a little bit aboutbreath work.
Why is that important?
What type of breath work can Ido?
Sitting in my desk at work fora few minutes, or go hide in the
bathroom?
Timeout, what does it look like?
(14:40):
And then, what is mindfulness?
And how can I practice that too?
Just to leave our audience withsome practical tools.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Absolutely, I love it .
So you know, mindfulness at itsmost fundamental level is, you
know, fully attuning to the now,so not being bogged down in.
You know, fully attuning to thenow, so not being bogged down
in you know the past orpreoccupied with the future, but
really being fully attuned tothe now, and without judgment,
(15:13):
so without placing kind of agood or bad on something, and
also with acceptance right, sowithout the desire to change
what is.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And mindfulness, you know it can be.
It helped a lot with with, Imean, stress management,
emotional regulation, selfthings like self-awareness.
There's actually likemindfulness-based stress
reduction can really help withphysical pain.
And so, and the thing aboutmindfulness in terms of
(15:47):
practical tools is it'ssomething that you know, you
don't have to go to a day longsilent mindfulness retreat,
right, it's.
You know, go outside and go.
One of my favorites is just togo on a walk around the block,
leave my phone at my desk.
It's uncomfortable, but um, andand practice, you know, feeling
(16:08):
the ground under my feet.
You know, hearing the birds,hearing the cars, and as my mind
inevitably um jumps to got topick up the kid from school, I
have to answer this email, right, just gently bringing it back
to the now.
Um, there's like mindful eating.
You know, maybe there's someHalloween candy on your counter,
(16:32):
like for me, and sit there withyou know, an M and M or a piece
of chocolate and mindfully eatit.
And and as we practicemindfulness, the beauty of it
and the hope that I find in itis that as we practice it,
thanks to neuroplasticity, right, our brain changes to kind of
default, more to that mindful,that mindful state.
(16:53):
And then breathing is another.
Just it can be a tool formindfulness.
And then breathing is another.
It can be a tool formindfulness, just focusing on
your ins and your outs, evenjust for a minute, and notice
just how that kind of regulatesand calms your body and noticing
(17:14):
whether you're holding yourbreath right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think that's the first.
If I could rest for me, I'mlike, oh, I'm not breathing.
Yeah, oh, my breath Right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I think that's the first like if I rest for me, I'm
like oh, I'm not breathing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
Yes, right, yes, absolutelyyeah.
Yeah, I love that you talkabout neuroplasticity as a way
that breathing and mindfulnesshelps calm your brain.
Um, but it I know the more Imeditate, the better, better I
feel, because it's a sort ofmuscle that you, that you sort
of practice.
And can you talk a little bitabout what it does for your
(17:51):
brain with the stress, becauseit's hard to just pick up and be
present in the moment.
So you're present for thatmoment.
What does it do for the rest ofyour day?
What does it do for tomorrow?
Like what, what?
Why am I going to invest thetime in this when it's just at
this particular moment?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, so I mean breathing, right, and
mindfulness.
There are impacts on kind ofyour, your experience, now,
right, In terms of kind ofemotional regulation.
Even things like, you know,self-awareness so being aware of
you know where am I feelingemotions in my body, right, Can
(18:32):
help us just better, betterself-regulate and better kind of
interact in social situations.
But neuroplasticity, right,it's like thinking about our
brain like a muscle the more wepractice, the stronger it
becomes, and so there's actuallylike structural changes that
happen in our brain in areasrelated to our stress response.
(18:54):
Right, that can, and there'ssome really interesting
resources around this.
But as those areas of our brainare strengthened, then our
stress response becomes, youknow more, I guess, regulated
Right, and it allows us torespond versus react, and so are
(19:19):
, I think I, we could.
I could go into that as much asyou like, but a couple hours
yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
No, but that's I mean .
I think it's really goodbecause it if, when you're
practicing that and some kind ofstress hits, if you can take a
breath remember to take a breathand your brain can be like,
okay, I know how to deal withthese things.
Right, I think that's.
That's really great.
I want to switch gears and talkabout the workplace.
How do women advocate forthemselves during this time when
(19:52):
they're struggling with mentalhealth issues related to
menopause, mood swings, brainfog, which was still and will
ever be my challenge?
What are some of the ways inwhich women can take care of
themselves and advocate forthemselves when they're
struggling with this kind ofmental health challenges around
this age?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a lot that weas women can do to advocate.
I would, and I would also say,you know, this isn't just a
women's issue, it's not also,when people are having mental
health struggles, it's not justsomething for them to to
(20:34):
advocate for Right, and so Ithink that there's um uh, but
there's um a lot that you knowwomen can do to advocate, um,
when they are having mentalhealth challenges related to
menopause, um, or just mentalhealth challenges in general.
Um, I will say that um, a lotof it does require a foundation
(20:57):
of uh psychological safety,right and and psychological
safety being our ability to showup authentically with
vulnerability, without therebeing risk of a negative
consequence, and so that is kindof a really big asterisk to um,
(21:19):
that is a place to start.
I guess you know when, to justmake sure that there is a, an
environment where um people canadvocate for themselves.
You know when they are, whenthey're, when they are having
mental health challenges, um, uh, so, with that kind of known,
and we can talk about ways to tofoster psychological safety as
well, um, uh, so, with that kindof known, and we can talk about
(21:40):
ways to foster psychologicalsafety as well, um, but you know
there's you can talk, to talkto your manager, for example, or
HR, if there is that level oftrust, right, um to to explain,
hey, this is what I'm goingthrough, this is, um, this is
what I'm experiencing, and um,and to really focus on um ways
(22:02):
that you can be supported andasking for those Right.
So, um, I, I could, I could, youknow, uh, benefit from maybe
coming into working from home acouple of days a week, or coming
into work a little later, orhaving a quiet place to be, for
you know when I need it at work,if there is a, you know, if
(22:25):
you're feeling reallyoverwhelmed expressing that, and
maybe there's something interms of a deadline, or you know
something with your workresponsibility that can be
shifted, with your workresponsibility that can be
shifted right, and just havingthat conversation, I think you
know requesting well, first ofall, knowing what mental health
(22:47):
resources you have available andthen vocalizing what else you
might find is helpful for youand for other people A really
great place to do that can startwith, you know, if you have an
employee resource group or kindof a community within work, hr
is obviously a great place tohave those conversations as well
.
And then lastly and this getsback to kind of having that
(23:10):
conversation with your manageror HR but familiarizing yourself
first of all with whateverpolicies are in place, using
them and then advocating forwhat are the gaps.
What are the gaps?
And then you know if you can,maybe being a part of starting
(23:31):
of kind of initiating some ofthose right in your workplace.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that you mentionedemployees bringing solutions to
the table, because I thinkthat's an important piece.
Oftentimes, if we don't do thatand we come to a manager and
say this is what I'mexperiencing and it falls flat,
it's because they don't knowwhat you need right, or they
don't know what to do, or theydon't know how to help.
(23:59):
So that intrinsic knowledge ofself right, self-awareness like
this is what I'm experiencing isreally important, and that's
work that we have to do forourselves so that we can
advocate for what we need right.
I need to listen to me, what'shappening with me, and I think
(24:22):
this is what I need.
So then we advocate in a safeenvironment.
Yes, as you mentioned, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
There's many studies that say that when employers the
reasons why they don't havesome of these benefits is
because no one asked, yeah,interesting.
And so I know April's beenasked several times in some
panel discussions that we'vebeen in what should people do
when they want to have thesebenefits?
And the first word out of hermouth is ask, ask.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You have to ask.
You have to ask for it.
Yeah, they don't know what theydon't know.
We assume that they know, butif no one's speaking up, then I
don't see the importance right.
So we have to speak up andadvocate for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, and I think it's also, I mean so interesting
, because then we can also askthe question why might someone
not speak up Right, what?
(25:24):
And so that, in terms of youknow, there's the fear of the
negative consequences or it'sgoing to be a reflection on my
ability to perform or to grow orto lead, of education about
menopause, about mental health,about mental well-being, into
kind of you know, the globalwellness programs, into the
employee experience, when youtalk about things like growth
(25:46):
and development, just reallykind of integrating it in right
across the employee population,not just for a segment, can, at
a minimum, just just kind of uh,help with a shared foundational
knowledge or shared language,maybe, if things aren't
forgotten, um, right, to get itto um, and also for other people
(26:10):
to advocate for you know these,these not just people who are
experiencing menopause or whowill experience menopause, but
for but for others to as well,kind of holistically across
corporate wellness initiatives.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That fear of retaliation andfear of someone looking at me
like I'm not capable any longer,because it's real and right.
We have to start.
We have to start advocating forourselves.
Organizations have to starttalking about it so that it is a
part of a common language andhave allies Right yes, inner
(26:48):
corner as well that can helpspeak for us and with us, not
for us, actually.
I'm going to retract that, if Ican delete that from this.
For us, actually.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm going to retract that, if I can delete that from
this.
That's important though beingaware of our language and
learning out loud.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Here we go.
I know Right, I just want totake that back because nobody
needs to speak for me.
But with me right To get froman arm, I think is important
yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, and when you have other people in the
workforce with you, you feelmore psychologically safe, which
is something you pointed out,carolyn, which I think is really
important.
Feeling safe enough to havethose conversations is a huge
part of it, and I know it's notalways an easy conversation, but
it's worth having to help youso that you can flourish while
(27:37):
you're in this stage.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Absolutely, I mean so many parallels with just kind
of the mental health movement.
And you're, while you're inthis stage, absolutely I mean so
many parallels with just kindof the mental health movement.
And you know, bringing it is isthat you know that leadership
is talking about their ownexperiences with mental health
and and just that, normalization, destigmatization and bringing
that into the conversation ofthe life experience of many
(28:00):
employee experience.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, I think it is important.
Senior leadership and listen,we're at an age I say we.
I'll fold you in too, carolyn.
I don't know how old you are,but I know how old Kim is.
You're the oldest one in theroom April, so go ahead, darn it
.
Darn it by a couple of dayshere.
I just turned right.
But I think, you know, we getto this age and we get to a
(28:29):
point in our careers too, wherewe are brave enough to talk
about it, and it is okay to talkabout it because you know, we
kind of have this I don't give a.
You know, we kind of have thisI don't give a, you know what
anymore attitude, and we knowthat nothing's going to happen.
Right, you have this historicalwork experience where you, you
(28:52):
do feel safer speaking up.
So we really need for thosethat have gone before us, that
are older and wiser, to speak upand share their story.
I think storytelling is really,really important, yeah
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I mean I know for me, I'm on the, I mean it is in my
future and fast approaching,right, but just having these
types of conversations isincredibly informative and
empowering to me, right to lookahead and to just to have this,
(29:30):
to have the conversation as areality, and it's something that
is not an issue, it's just it'ssomething that is inevitable.
And, and then the key is, andif I also then feel supported
right In that, beyond the waysthat I can advocate for myself,
yeah, yeah, and so using thosepositions of kind of tenure and
(29:53):
career and leadership as a partof just being a leader is also
sharing that human experience.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
And a person is hard, as I sayto my kids all the time.
Person is hard, isn't?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
it, yeah, yeah.
So what I'm hearing isawareness is key first.
Is awareness is key first,educating awareness so that we
begin to normalize any menopausesymptoms, whether that is
anxiety, depression, mentalhealth, that it is a part, it
could be a part of the journeyfor someone.
(30:27):
So understanding that and thenreally becoming in tune with
ourselves, knowing ourselveswhat do I need advocating for
that?
Having those conversations inthe workplace and utilizing
benefits that you have withinthe workplace and support groups
are really, really important.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah.
Is there anything else that wehaven't asked you that you wish
that our audience knew or knows,or you want to share with them?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think that, you know, one thing that's just
really striking is, yes, it'sabout, I mean, and this goes to
supporting women with menopause,you know, who are experiencing
menopause, people who are havingmental health struggles, right,
is that it is the right thingto do to support them right,
(31:28):
with the right benefits andresources and kind of supportive
culture and environment.
But it's also just an incrediblyimportant kind of strategic
play, right, I mean, to helppeople show up as their best at
work and continue to work, right, and so I think that that is um
(31:52):
, and for women, especiallywomen, to continue to thrive and
grow um and be uh at work.
And so I think that that is uhis one thing that's standing up
for me.
And I also think I mean this isvery raw, but just the
intersection of, you know,menopause and mental health and
(32:15):
well-being, right, and really atthe individual level, as mental
health has kind of become morenormalized, more destigmatized,
with menopause kind ofthankfully in women's health
just getting more of a spotlight, just how can those two things
be a part of the sameconversation?
Um, right, and so that's areally exciting, uh, exciting
(32:40):
opportunity, I think, for um,for everybody, not just women,
for all people who are in theworkforce and for employers as
well.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So great Agreed.
How can people find you if theywant to get more information
about the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
yeah, um, thanks for asking.
I would just.
I think the best place andyou'll find all the links and
everything is just to connectwith me on linkedin.
Um, so find me on linkedin.
Carolyn thayer azoff,t-h-a-y-e-r-a-z-o-f-f.
There's not many times thathyphenating becomes long winded,
but that's one.
And just mention that you I'dlove to hear how you found me
(33:19):
and that you heard thisconversation on the podcast and
I'd love to hear what stood outto you.
So that'd be a great place.
And then there's links andeverything else from there.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Perfect, and we'll put that in the show notes too,
so that folks can find you aswell, so look in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Are you ready to have some fun?
Carolyn, we're gonna do a rapidfire.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Let's do it a little bit better.
So I'm gonna dive right in andjust ask what your favorite
season is oh, I love fall.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I love the the cup.
I oh I guess it's rapid fire.
You probably don't wantcommentary.
You know the crisp air, theleaves are changing colors.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I just, I, really, I really love fall well, I mean,
I'm glad you said that, becausemy next question is what's your
favorite fall drink?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
oh my gosh.
I mean, I think my favoritedrink all year long is coffee.
And I'm just drip, drip coffeewith oat milk.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Simple, simon, I know Me too.
None of that pumpkin stuff, Imean.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I feel like I'm obligated to have one pumpkin
spice latte every year, but Iwould, yeah.
I then tend to want to stickjust with my coffee, all right,
oh, I kind of felt disappointed,like why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, I know I'm so sweet, you, carolyn.
Yeah, okay, this one is a uh,this or that um, would you?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
prefer skiing or ski lodge skiing?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
good for you.
Hey, I know like you go girl.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I mean, I do look forward to the you the post
skiing festivities as well.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Both, both yeah, skiing first.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Skiing first, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
And our final and favorite question what's the
best piece of advice you've everreceived or given?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, I think it's a mantra that I start most days
with.
Every day is what's the highestand best use of my time?
There will always be, and itwas given to me by a somebody
that I worked with and it was asI was actually entering the
(35:28):
workforce now, as a new mom, Inow have two little little ones,
but you know, there will alwaysbe more to do, um, more to and
just really focusing whetherthat be at work or in my or my
personal life just what is thehighest and best use of my time.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
and anchoring on that , Prioritize things that you
think are important, but they'reprobably not, probably not.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Prioritize every day, things will always drop right,
just hopefully they're not themost important ones.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, absolutely, I love that one.
Well, caroline, it has been ajoy having you on the show.
Thanks so much for coming andtalking about mental health and
menopause and for what you doand helping so many people.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'm really grateful that you both had me, and I
think that I look forward tomore conversations in the future
.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
We do too.
But until we meet again, that'slistening.
Go find joy in the journey.
Take care.
Bye everyone.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
(36:50):
episode with a friend.
There are more than 50 millionwomen in the US who are
navigating the menopausetransition.
The situation is compounded bythe presence of stigma, shame
and secrecy surroundingmenopause, posing significant
challenges and disruptions inwomen's personal and
(37:10):
professional spheres.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
trusted source forevidence-based, science-backed
information related to menopause.
Medovia is dedicated tochanging the narrative about
menopause by educating, raisingawareness and supporting women
in this stage of life, both athome and in the workplace.
(00:21):
Visit medoviacom to learn morehome and in the workplace.
Visit Medoviacom to learn more.
I'm one of your hosts, aprilHaberman, and I'm joined by Kim
Hart.
We're co-founders of Medovia,certified health coaches,
registered yoga teachers andmidlife mamas specializing in
menopause.
You're listening to anotherepisode of our podcast, where we
(00:43):
offer expert guidance for themost transformative stage of
life, bringing you realconversations, education and
resources to help you overcomechallenges and reach your full
potential through midlife.
Join us and our special guestseach episode as we bring vibrant
, fun and truthful conversationand let us help you have a
(01:07):
deeper understanding ofmenopause.
Hi everyone, today we haveCarolyn Thayer on the show.
Carolyn has over 15 years ofexperience building strategies,
programs and teams in the mentalhealth and wellness space,
including leadership roles instartups through Fortune 50
(01:28):
organizations.
Grounded in her background incounseling and health psychology
, she brings a uniquecombination of successes and
learnings to integrative mentalhealth and well-being program
leadership.
It seems really timely to haveher on the show and we're happy
to share this episode with you.
(01:50):
Carolyn, welcome to the show.
We're so excited to have youtoday.
Hi, april, yeah, great to behere.
Yeah, this is going to be agreat conversation.
I almost said fun conversation.
I hope we have fun, buthopefully we can have fun
talking about mental health.
Right, it's a very serioustopic and it's something that we
really have not discussed atlength on our show here mental
(02:14):
health and menopause.
So we're thrilled to have youhere and I want to dive right in
, because I know that there area lot of questions that are out
there that our audience has andthere's a lot of content to
cover in a short amount of time.
So, if it's okay with you, I'mgoing to dive right in.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Great.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Okay, perfect.
I want to start by having youhelp us understand how hormonal
changes during menopause impactmental health and what some of
the most common healthchallenges women face during
this time are.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I like to start with just ashared definition or
understanding of mental health,right?
So mental health it's acontinuum, right?
So many times when we talkabout mental health, we think of
and are talking about mentalhealth conditions or mental
illness.
(03:12):
But really, you know, thinkingof mental health as something
that we all have, just likephysical health and that is,
from you know, mentally healthythrough mental illness.
And so I think I just like tokind of lay that foundation.
And for most of us, our mentalhealth ebbs and flows throughout
(03:32):
life and so with that, ofcourse, during menopause, our
bodies go through many bigchanges and great, our bodies go
through many big changes.
And with hormones like estrogenand progesterone, you know, as
(03:53):
they go up and down, they alsoaffect neurotransmitters in our
brain which are closely tied toour mood and our emotions.
So serotonin, for example, thisis what helps us be calm and
happy, and dopamine is is, youknow, kind of the pleasure part
of our part of our brain andthings like focus.
And so, as hormones go up anddown throughout transitions and
(04:18):
experiences like menopause,there's that chemical impact on
our mental health.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, we get a lot of questions about this,
especially people that aresurprised about gosh.
My anxiety went through theroof and I'm probably not a very
nice person anymore.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
I don't know why and I feel sad and I don't know why.
Like is what's happening in thebrain as the as the hormones
change, and what can we do tosupport ourselves when we
recognize gosh?
This is happening to me.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
So I mean that's a great justmyth to dispel, right?
That menopause yes, it has bigphysical impacts, but there's
also the mental andpsychological impacts and this
is because as estrogen andprogesterone levels change, they
making serotonin and dopaminelevels change as well and drop,
(05:14):
and this can lead to mood swingsand feelings of anxiety,
depression, and that's why womenare at increased risk of
anxiety and depression duringmenopause.
And this is not yes, it doesyou know pre-existing conditions
of anxiety and depression canworsen, but it's not only people
(05:36):
who have had anxiety anddepression before, right.
So, and in terms of you knowways to to support, I mean
there's a lot right at home andand at work.
I think that a big one is justgetting ahead of any shame or
(05:58):
silence around around menopauseand mental health.
I mean there's so manyparallels between the stigmas
that there is around menopauseand mental health and when
you're having mental healthstruggles, and so you know how
can we create that supportiveculture and environment to have
(06:20):
that open conversation andpsychoeducation about the
realities of.
You know the impact on, focuson, you know brain fog on on our
mental well-being, to normalizeand educate and then from there
, you know, empower to to, youknow, to have some really
(06:41):
practical ways to support peoplein those in those times.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm glad you brought that up.
I mean, mental health certainlyhas come a long way.
In just the past couple ofyears, individuals male, female
wouldn't discuss mental healthin the workplace or even with
one another.
Right, it was very much.
It carried a lot of stigma andshame and I feel like menopause
(07:07):
is just kind of coming out rightnow as well.
You know, kim was on a webinaryesterday and someone asked you
know, how do we start to talkabout menopause in the workplace
?
Because of the shame and thestigma and if I'm having brain
fog, I don't want to be lookedat like I have a disease, like I
(07:28):
need an accommodation, like Iam right that person in the
workplace.
I think it is really importantwhat you brought up, that this
is normal and this is a hormonalreaction, what's happening in
our bodies, and not somethingthat we can help.
Right, it's not a disease andnothing's wrong with me.
(07:53):
I just need a little bit ofsupport.
So I mean, that being said, aswe think about anxiety and
depression, whether it's at homeor at the workplace, what are
some of those coping mechanisms?
How do we?
You, you mentioned training,awareness.
I think that's first andforemost what we need to do
(08:14):
everywhere.
But what are some of thosecoping mechanisms?
If I'm at work and I'm feelinganxious, and I'm feeling
depressed, what can I do?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, I just want to.
What you said is so just, youknow we will get to coping
mechanisms, but what you saidabout the like mental health has
really become more on theforefront and I think that you
know, oftentimes we talk aboutthere are, you know, life
(08:43):
transitions that cause increasedlevels of stress or anxiety,
right, whether that be positivestressors like you know,
marriage or moving, these thingsthat our mental health is
impacted or negative, like griefand loss and job loss, right
and thinking about.
But menopause isn't typicallyin those frameworks of just life
(09:04):
transitions, right.
So I think that that's reallyprofound and something that
could be interesting for youknow, just to kind of anchor
into.
So, in terms of copingstrategies, you know, of course
there's.
I mean, always remembering thatour mental and our physical
health are connected, right, andso thing like focusing on your
(09:28):
well-being as an individual, soyour sleep, your nutrition, your
physical activity, right, ofcourse, distress management
techniques, so things that arealways accessible to us, like
breathing or, you know,mindfulness and social is really
(09:48):
huge.
I think that there's greatopportunity to find that space
to talk about your experiencesin that whether that be at work,
right in an employee resourcegroup or, you know, if you have
that level of psychologicalsafety with your manager, with-
coworkers right friends, or youknow, if you have that level of
psychological safety with yourmanager, with coworkers, right,
(10:11):
friends, family, whatever thatlooks like, just having those
open conversations to rememberI'm not alone.
I'm not alone in this experienceand I'm not alone in the
challenges that come with it.
And then, of course, you know,understand what your employer
offers or what's available toyou in terms of mental health
benefits, Right so, therapy,counseling, you know EAPs,
(10:37):
whatever that looks like, anddon't just become aware of them,
but take advantage of themAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I love that you say that the social aspect is so
important, because one of thethings when we get into the
workplace and start doingtraining people are like, oh my
gosh, you're hearing me, you'reseeing me, I feel like I'm not
going crazy.
And when other people starttalking about it, they feel like
okay, me too Right.
They feel like okay, me tooRight.
(11:09):
You mentioned understand whatyour company offers and take
advantage of therapy.
The menopause society has saidthat cognitive behavioral
therapy is one of the best waysto um to help with your
menopause symptoms, and you know, I think that makes sense on
the surface, but can you talk alittle bit about you know when
someone should consider that andwhy it is helpful?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah.
So you know, I would say thatthere's no right or there's no
certainly wrong time to seek outtherapy in my opinion, right,
mental health is something thatwe don't need to be in crisis to
benefit from counseling ortherapy, right, but there are,
(11:50):
and there's also, you know,there's group support, there's
coaching support, there's a widearray of mental health support,
you know, again, across thatcontinuum, but there are some
times that are, you know, thingsto look out for, when it is
especially important to seek outprofessional help, whether that
(12:12):
be for yourself or if a lovedone or a coworker right, if
you're noticing these things inthem to really, you know, show
up with compassion and care andencourage them to, um, to get,
you know, the support that theyneed.
So a lot of it is around justtime and intensity, right, and
really impact on daily life.
(12:33):
So if you're experiencing, youknow, um, persistent, uh,
changes to your mood, so thingslike, you know, ongoing, like
sadness or even heightenedanxiety or panic attacks that
are affecting, that are ongoingand affecting your daily
(12:55):
functioning, definitely Ifyou're feeling chronic fatigue
or insomnia, of course there'sother things that could be
impacting that, but certainly asignal.
And also, we know that, youknow, a lack of sleep impacts
our mental health as well.
So those two things are aren't.
And then, just, you know, ifyou are having a loss of
(13:15):
interest in activities that youtypically enjoy, right, if
you're maybe not as keen on onseeing or connecting with the
people that you're closest to,or if you have a hobby and
you're not doing that.
Those are all things to justpay attention to as signals that
it might be time to seek outsome additional support.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, I want to come back to something that you said
a few minutes ago, where youtalked about coping mechanisms,
and you know, things that arewithin our control, that are at
our fingertips, like breath workand mindfulness.
I think we can often and we, Isay this includes myself say
(13:57):
that.
But for those that aren'tfamiliar with breath work or
mindfulness or have neverpracticed it before, I think
there's two camps A some peoplethink it's woo woo, like that.
What are you talking about?
That is woo woo.
Or B All right, how do Ibreathe Right?
Or what is mindfulness?
(14:19):
I'm going to go have to lookthat up.
What does it mean?
So I think we can kind of justkind of um reign it in a little
bit.
We can talk a little bit aboutbreath work.
Why is that important?
What type of breath work can Ido?
Sitting in my desk at work fora few minutes, or go hide in the
bathroom?
Timeout, what does it look like?
(14:40):
And then, what is mindfulness?
And how can I practice that too?
Just to leave our audience withsome practical tools.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Absolutely, I love it .
So you know, mindfulness at itsmost fundamental level is, you
know, fully attuning to the now,so not being bogged down in.
You know, fully attuning to thenow, so not being bogged down
in you know the past orpreoccupied with the future, but
really being fully attuned tothe now, and without judgment,
(15:13):
so without placing kind of agood or bad on something, and
also with acceptance right, sowithout the desire to change
what is.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And mindfulness, you know it can be.
It helped a lot with with, Imean, stress management,
emotional regulation, selfthings like self-awareness.
There's actually likemindfulness-based stress
reduction can really help withphysical pain.
And so, and the thing aboutmindfulness in terms of
(15:47):
practical tools is it'ssomething that you know, you
don't have to go to a day longsilent mindfulness retreat,
right, it's.
You know, go outside and go.
One of my favorites is just togo on a walk around the block,
leave my phone at my desk.
It's uncomfortable, but um, andand practice, you know, feeling
(16:08):
the ground under my feet.
You know, hearing the birds,hearing the cars, and as my mind
inevitably um jumps to got topick up the kid from school, I
have to answer this email, right, just gently bringing it back
to the now.
Um, there's like mindful eating.
You know, maybe there's someHalloween candy on your counter,
(16:32):
like for me, and sit there withyou know, an M and M or a piece
of chocolate and mindfully eatit.
And and as we practicemindfulness, the beauty of it
and the hope that I find in itis that as we practice it,
thanks to neuroplasticity, right, our brain changes to kind of
default, more to that mindful,that mindful state.
(16:53):
And then breathing is another.
Just it can be a tool formindfulness.
And then breathing is another.
It can be a tool formindfulness, just focusing on
your ins and your outs, evenjust for a minute, and notice
just how that kind of regulatesand calms your body and noticing
(17:14):
whether you're holding yourbreath right.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
I think that's the first.
If I could rest for me, I'mlike, oh, I'm not breathing.
Yeah, oh, my breath Right.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I think that's the first like if I rest for me, I'm
like oh, I'm not breathing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
Yes, right, yes, absolutelyyeah.
Yeah, I love that you talkabout neuroplasticity as a way
that breathing and mindfulnesshelps calm your brain.
Um, but it I know the more Imeditate, the better, better I
feel, because it's a sort ofmuscle that you, that you sort
of practice.
And can you talk a little bitabout what it does for your
(17:51):
brain with the stress, becauseit's hard to just pick up and be
present in the moment.
So you're present for thatmoment.
What does it do for the rest ofyour day?
What does it do for tomorrow?
Like what, what?
Why am I going to invest thetime in this when it's just at
this particular moment?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, so I mean breathing, right, and
mindfulness.
There are impacts on kind ofyour, your experience, now,
right, In terms of kind ofemotional regulation.
Even things like, you know,self-awareness so being aware of
you know where am I feelingemotions in my body, right, Can
(18:32):
help us just better, betterself-regulate and better kind of
interact in social situations.
But neuroplasticity, right,it's like thinking about our
brain like a muscle the more wepractice, the stronger it
becomes, and so there's actuallylike structural changes that
happen in our brain in areasrelated to our stress response.
(18:54):
Right, that can, and there'ssome really interesting
resources around this.
But as those areas of our brainare strengthened, then our
stress response becomes, youknow more, I guess, regulated
Right, and it allows us torespond versus react, and so are
(19:19):
, I think I, we could.
I could go into that as much asyou like, but a couple hours
yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
No, but that's I mean .
I think it's really goodbecause it if, when you're
practicing that and some kind ofstress hits, if you can take a
breath remember to take a breathand your brain can be like,
okay, I know how to deal withthese things.
Right, I think that's.
That's really great.
I want to switch gears and talkabout the workplace.
How do women advocate forthemselves during this time when
(19:52):
they're struggling with mentalhealth issues related to
menopause, mood swings, brainfog, which was still and will
ever be my challenge?
What are some of the ways inwhich women can take care of
themselves and advocate forthemselves when they're
struggling with this kind ofmental health challenges around
this age?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a lot that weas women can do to advocate.
I would, and I would also say,you know, this isn't just a
women's issue, it's not also,when people are having mental
health struggles, it's not justsomething for them to to
(20:34):
advocate for Right, and so Ithink that there's um uh, but
there's um a lot that you knowwomen can do to advocate, um,
when they are having mentalhealth challenges related to
menopause, um, or just mentalhealth challenges in general.
Um, I will say that um, a lotof it does require a foundation
(20:57):
of uh psychological safety,right and and psychological
safety being our ability to showup authentically with
vulnerability, without therebeing risk of a negative
consequence, and so that is kindof a really big asterisk to um,
(21:19):
that is a place to start.
I guess you know when, to justmake sure that there is a, an
environment where um people canadvocate for themselves.
You know when they are, whenthey're, when they are having
mental health challenges, um, uh, so, with that kind of known,
and we can talk about ways to tofoster psychological safety as
well, um, uh, so, with that kindof known, and we can talk about
(21:40):
ways to foster psychologicalsafety as well, um, but you know
there's you can talk, to talkto your manager, for example, or
HR, if there is that level oftrust, right, um to to explain,
hey, this is what I'm goingthrough, this is, um, this is
what I'm experiencing, and um,and to really focus on um ways
(22:02):
that you can be supported andasking for those Right.
So, um, I, I could, I could, youknow, uh, benefit from maybe
coming into working from home acouple of days a week, or coming
into work a little later, orhaving a quiet place to be, for
you know when I need it at work,if there is a, you know, if
(22:25):
you're feeling reallyoverwhelmed expressing that, and
maybe there's something interms of a deadline, or you know
something with your workresponsibility that can be
shifted, with your workresponsibility that can be
shifted right, and just havingthat conversation, I think you
know requesting well, first ofall, knowing what mental health
(22:47):
resources you have available andthen vocalizing what else you
might find is helpful for youand for other people A really
great place to do that can startwith, you know, if you have an
employee resource group or kindof a community within work, hr
is obviously a great place tohave those conversations as well
.
And then lastly and this getsback to kind of having that
(23:10):
conversation with your manageror HR but familiarizing yourself
first of all with whateverpolicies are in place, using
them and then advocating forwhat are the gaps.
What are the gaps?
And then you know if you can,maybe being a part of starting
(23:31):
of kind of initiating some ofthose right in your workplace.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that you mentionedemployees bringing solutions to
the table, because I thinkthat's an important piece.
Oftentimes, if we don't do thatand we come to a manager and
say this is what I'mexperiencing and it falls flat,
it's because they don't knowwhat you need right, or they
don't know what to do, or theydon't know how to help.
(23:59):
So that intrinsic knowledge ofself right, self-awareness like
this is what I'm experiencing isreally important, and that's
work that we have to do forourselves so that we can
advocate for what we need right.
I need to listen to me, what'shappening with me, and I think
(24:22):
this is what I need.
So then we advocate in a safeenvironment.
Yes, as you mentioned, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
There's many studies that say that when employers the
reasons why they don't havesome of these benefits is
because no one asked, yeah,interesting.
And so I know April's beenasked several times in some
panel discussions that we'vebeen in what should people do
when they want to have thesebenefits?
And the first word out of hermouth is ask, ask.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
You have to ask.
You have to ask for it.
Yeah, they don't know what theydon't know.
We assume that they know, butif no one's speaking up, then I
don't see the importance right.
So we have to speak up andadvocate for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, and I think it's also, I mean so interesting
, because then we can also askthe question why might someone
not speak up Right, what?
(25:24):
And so that, in terms of youknow, there's the fear of the
negative consequences or it'sgoing to be a reflection on my
ability to perform or to grow orto lead, of education about
menopause, about mental health,about mental well-being, into
kind of you know, the globalwellness programs, into the
employee experience, when youtalk about things like growth
(25:46):
and development, just reallykind of integrating it in right
across the employee population,not just for a segment, can, at
a minimum, just just kind of uh,help with a shared foundational
knowledge or shared language,maybe, if things aren't
forgotten, um, right, to get itto um, and also for other people
(26:10):
to advocate for you know these,these not just people who are
experiencing menopause or whowill experience menopause, but
for but for others to as well,kind of holistically across
corporate wellness initiatives.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That fear of retaliation andfear of someone looking at me
like I'm not capable any longer,because it's real and right.
We have to start.
We have to start advocating forourselves.
Organizations have to starttalking about it so that it is a
part of a common language andhave allies Right yes, inner
(26:48):
corner as well that can helpspeak for us and with us, not
for us, actually.
I'm going to retract that, if Ican delete that from this.
For us, actually.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm going to retract that, if I can delete that from
this.
That's important though beingaware of our language and
learning out loud.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Here we go.
I know Right, I just want totake that back because nobody
needs to speak for me.
But with me right To get froman arm, I think is important
yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, and when you have other people in the
workforce with you, you feelmore psychologically safe, which
is something you pointed out,carolyn, which I think is really
important.
Feeling safe enough to havethose conversations is a huge
part of it, and I know it's notalways an easy conversation, but
it's worth having to help youso that you can flourish while
(27:37):
you're in this stage.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Absolutely, I mean so many parallels with just kind
of the mental health movement.
And you're, while you're inthis stage, absolutely I mean so
many parallels with just kindof the mental health movement.
And you know, bringing it is isthat you know that leadership
is talking about their ownexperiences with mental health
and and just that, normalization, destigmatization and bringing
that into the conversation ofthe life experience of many
(28:00):
employee experience.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yeah, I think it is important.
Senior leadership and listen,we're at an age I say we.
I'll fold you in too, carolyn.
I don't know how old you are,but I know how old Kim is.
You're the oldest one in theroom April, so go ahead, darn it
.
Darn it by a couple of dayshere.
I just turned right.
But I think, you know, we getto this age and we get to a
(28:29):
point in our careers too, wherewe are brave enough to talk
about it, and it is okay to talkabout it because you know, we
kind of have this I don't give a.
You know, we kind of have thisI don't give a, you know what
anymore attitude, and we knowthat nothing's going to happen.
Right, you have this historicalwork experience where you, you
(28:52):
do feel safer speaking up.
So we really need for thosethat have gone before us, that
are older and wiser, to speak upand share their story.
I think storytelling is really,really important, yeah
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
I mean I know for me, I'm on the, I mean it is in my
future and fast approaching,right, but just having these
types of conversations isincredibly informative and
empowering to me, right to lookahead and to just to have this,
(29:30):
to have the conversation as areality, and it's something that
is not an issue, it's just it'ssomething that is inevitable.
And, and then the key is, andif I also then feel supported
right In that, beyond the waysthat I can advocate for myself,
yeah, yeah, and so using thosepositions of kind of tenure and
(29:53):
career and leadership as a partof just being a leader is also
sharing that human experience.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah.
And a person is hard, as I sayto my kids all the time.
Person is hard, isn't?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
it, yeah, yeah.
So what I'm hearing isawareness is key first.
Is awareness is key first,educating awareness so that we
begin to normalize any menopausesymptoms, whether that is
anxiety, depression, mentalhealth, that it is a part, it
could be a part of the journeyfor someone.
(30:27):
So understanding that and thenreally becoming in tune with
ourselves, knowing ourselveswhat do I need advocating for
that?
Having those conversations inthe workplace and utilizing
benefits that you have withinthe workplace and support groups
are really, really important.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah.
Is there anything else that wehaven't asked you that you wish
that our audience knew or knows,or you want to share with them?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think that, you know, one thing that's just
really striking is, yes, it'sabout, I mean, and this goes to
supporting women with menopause,you know, who are experiencing
menopause, people who are havingmental health struggles, right,
is that it is the right thingto do to support them right,
(31:28):
with the right benefits andresources and kind of supportive
culture and environment.
But it's also just an incrediblyimportant kind of strategic
play, right, I mean, to helppeople show up as their best at
work and continue to work, right, and so I think that that is um
(31:52):
, and for women, especiallywomen, to continue to thrive and
grow um and be uh at work.
And so I think that that is uhis one thing that's standing up
for me.
And I also think I mean this isvery raw, but just the
intersection of, you know,menopause and mental health and
(32:15):
well-being, right, and really atthe individual level, as mental
health has kind of become morenormalized, more destigmatized,
with menopause kind ofthankfully in women's health
just getting more of a spotlight, just how can those two things
be a part of the sameconversation?
Um, right, and so that's areally exciting, uh, exciting
(32:40):
opportunity, I think, for um,for everybody, not just women,
for all people who are in theworkforce and for employers as
well.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So great Agreed.
How can people find you if theywant to get more information
about the work that you do?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
yeah, um, thanks for asking.
I would just.
I think the best place andyou'll find all the links and
everything is just to connectwith me on linkedin.
Um, so find me on linkedin.
Carolyn thayer azoff,t-h-a-y-e-r-a-z-o-f-f.
There's not many times thathyphenating becomes long winded,
but that's one.
And just mention that you I'dlove to hear how you found me
(33:19):
and that you heard thisconversation on the podcast and
I'd love to hear what stood outto you.
So that'd be a great place.
And then there's links andeverything else from there.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Perfect, and we'll put that in the show notes too,
so that folks can find you aswell, so look in the show notes.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Are you ready to have some fun?
Carolyn, we're gonna do a rapidfire.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Let's do it a little bit better.
So I'm gonna dive right in andjust ask what your favorite
season is oh, I love fall.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I love the the cup.
I oh I guess it's rapid fire.
You probably don't wantcommentary.
You know the crisp air, theleaves are changing colors.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
I just, I, really, I really love fall well, I mean,
I'm glad you said that, becausemy next question is what's your
favorite fall drink?
Speaker 2 (34:08):
oh my gosh.
I mean, I think my favoritedrink all year long is coffee.
And I'm just drip, drip coffeewith oat milk.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Simple, simon, I know Me too.
None of that pumpkin stuff, Imean.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I feel like I'm obligated to have one pumpkin
spice latte every year, but Iwould, yeah.
I then tend to want to stickjust with my coffee, all right,
oh, I kind of felt disappointed,like why did I do that?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, I know I'm so sweet, you, carolyn.
Yeah, okay, this one is a uh,this or that um, would you?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
prefer skiing or ski lodge skiing?
Speaker 1 (34:48):
good for you.
Hey, I know like you go girl.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Yeah, I mean, I do look forward to the you the post
skiing festivities as well.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Both, both yeah, skiing first.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Skiing first, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
And our final and favorite question what's the
best piece of advice you've everreceived or given?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, I think it's a mantra that I start most days
with.
Every day is what's the highestand best use of my time?
There will always be, and itwas given to me by a somebody
that I worked with and it was asI was actually entering the
(35:28):
workforce now, as a new mom, Inow have two little little ones,
but you know, there will alwaysbe more to do, um, more to and
just really focusing whetherthat be at work or in my or my
personal life just what is thehighest and best use of my time.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
and anchoring on that , Prioritize things that you
think are important, but they'reprobably not, probably not.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Prioritize every day, things will always drop right,
just hopefully they're not themost important ones.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, absolutely, I love that one.
Well, caroline, it has been ajoy having you on the show.
Thanks so much for coming andtalking about mental health and
menopause and for what you doand helping so many people.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'm really grateful that you both had me, and I
think that I look forward tomore conversations in the future
.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
We do too.
But until we meet again, that'slistening.
Go find joy in the journey.
Take care.
Bye everyone.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
(36:50):
episode with a friend.
There are more than 50 millionwomen in the US who are
navigating the menopausetransition.
The situation is compounded bythe presence of stigma, shame
and secrecy surroundingmenopause, posing significant
challenges and disruptions inwomen's personal and
(37:10):
professional spheres.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.