December 17, 2024 • 36 mins
What if the very culture you're immersed in is shaping your organization's success more than any strategy or business plan? Join us as we unpack this intriguing notion with Laura Hamill, an eminent organizational psychologist and author of "The Power of Culture." Drawing upon her extensive experience at Microsoft and as a founder of a thriving software company, Laura helps us explore the invisible yet powerful force of workplace culture. We dissect the nuanced difference between culture and climate, and why leaders must intentionally craft an organizational culture that synchronizes with strategic goals to bridge the often-overlooked gap between strategy and organizational ethos.
As we navigate through the challenges of fostering cultural change, particularly concerning flexible work environments and menopause support, Laura shares candid personal stories that illuminate the critical role of senior leadership in fostering a supportive workplace. We examine the concept of "cultural betrayal" and how the misalignment between promised and actual experiences can lead to detrimental outcomes. This episode challenges leaders to scrutinize and evolve workplace programs, urging a transformation towards a culture where employee well-being is prioritized, and everyone feels safe to express their authentic selves.
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/laurahamill
"The Power of Culture” Buy now on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Culture-Economist-Edge-Book/dp/1639367284
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MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast
Business Edition, your trustedsource for insights on menopause
and midlife in the workplace.
Each episode featuresmeaningful conversations with
inspiring guests.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello everybody, Welcome to the show today.
I'm excited to host LauraHamill.
Laura and I worked together atMicrosoft years ago and she just
wrote a book called the Powerof Culture, which is inspiring
for those that want to create agreat culture in the
organizations that they work.
Welcome, Laura, it's nice tosee you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yes, thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to talk with you.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, that's great.
So tell us a little bit aboutwho you are, your background and
why you wrote this book.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, so I am a mom and a wife.
I like to like try to teachmyself, to start with that right
, like I'm something besides mywork.
So I live in the Seattle area,live in Woodinville, washington,
and I am also an organizationalpsychologist, so a psychologist
(01:10):
applied to work, and I've hadsome really cool work
experiences.
I worked at Microsoft for along time.
I helped start a softwarecompany called Limeade.
I also have run my ownconsulting practice for a long
time and right now in the lastkind of iteration of my
consulting practice, I've beenfocused on organizational
(01:33):
culture and how do you reallyget intentional about it, how do
you understand it, and that'swhy I wrote this book.
So I wrote a book called thePower of Culture and it's really
the reason why I wanted towrite it.
There's a couple differentreasons.
One of them is all thedifferent things I've done in my
career.
I've been done, really hadculture at the heart.
(01:56):
Right, if I really wanted tochange something, improve
something, we had to understandculture, and so that was one of
the reasons why because it's soimportant I also have had these
(02:16):
roles in these different youknow, these multiple decades
that I've been working.
I've had roles as being thehead of research or science
groups where I've studiedculture from more of an academic
perspective, but then I alsohave had roles where I was the
head of HR, so the chief peopleofficer, and then trying to
think about it from a practicalperspective, like how does this
(02:38):
really go down?
And there's such a gap between,like, what research and science
says you're supposed to do whenit comes to culture and then
what actually happens, and sothat was another reason I wanted
to try to like bridge that gapa little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Love it.
So when you talk aboutorganization, organizational
culture, how do you define itand why is it important in
today's environment?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So I'd like to use science to define it.
It's the underlying values andnorms and beliefs of an
organization and if you thinkabout an iceberg, it's the stuff
that's down deep, the stuffthat's really hard.
It's not the stuff on thesurface, it's all the whys, whys
, whys that go underneath that.
So if you happen to seesomething at work, you know on
(03:25):
the surface so let's say youwalked into a new office that
you maybe hadn't been to beforeand you look on the surface and
it looks like everybody's superbusy, just running around busy.
That is not culture.
That actually is climate.
That's kind of what thetemperature feels like.
Right, when you are trying tounderstand culture, you have to
(03:46):
start asking why?
So why does it feel that way?
So why does it feel busy?
So it could feel busy becausethere's just a lot of exciting
innovations going on and there'sa lot of really cool stuff
happening.
That could be a really goodreason why it feels busy.
It also could feel busy becauseit's disjointed and people are
disconnected and they're tryingto figure things out.
(04:07):
So that's a very differentreason why it could be busy.
It also could be feeling busybecause just acting like you're
busy and having activity isvalued in the organization
versus really doing things thatare meaningfully important,
right?
So there's a lot of differentreasons why it could feel busy,
and so when we're understandingculture, we have to dig in, we
(04:29):
have to dig really deep to tryto understand that.
And so what's tricky and I think, also super interesting about
culture is that once you'vebecome part of it, you can't
even really see it anymore.
And so the idea you've probablyheard the analogy of you know,
does a goldfish even know it'sswimming in water?
(04:49):
So it's like culture being thewater that we swim in.
It's so natural to us, it's soeasy and obvious around what's
around us that we don't even seeit anymore.
So I think that's one of thebiggest reasons why culture can
be so hard is you don't even seeyour water.
So why is it so important?
So you can think about all ofus working or having worked
(05:14):
before we know.
The obvious reason why it'simportant is that it affects our
experience, right, it affectshow we feel about work.
So that's a big deal From anemployee's perspective.
It really does influence theemployee experience.
But if you think about it fromkind of an organizational
perspective or a leader'sperspective, you're going to
(05:35):
have a culture right.
You have a culture and whatoftentimes leaders don't
understand is that that cultureactually might not be helping
the organization achieve itsgoals.
It might actually be workingagainst some of the things that
you're trying to achieve.
In fact, I see that over andover again a real disconnect
(05:56):
between business strategy andthe actual culture, and a lot of
times it's really like blatant,like big time disconnect
between culture and what you'retrying to achieve Interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Why is it?
Well, I was just going to askon that same note, then why is
it essential for organizationsto proactively shape their
culture?
Otherwise it's going toorganically happen, right?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yes, and I'm thinking about your- latter point that
you just made.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I'll let you answer that, but I think you answered
it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So this is the stuff that I'vebeen fascinated by is when I
start to work with organizationsand I see that disconnect.
I'll just give you a realexample and like a very obvious
one.
So I was working with a largeinsurance company and they had
this big strategic shift andthey were going to work on some
(06:51):
pretty innovative, pretty marketchanging different strategies,
which you know innovation andinsurance doesn't usually go
hand in hand.
You know you don't think ofthose together, but they were
doing some pretty cool things ortrying to write.
That was their plan, that wastheir strategy.
They knew kind ofintellectually that their
(07:12):
culture needed to be alignedwith that.
But so they hired me.
They hired me to come in andhelp them really get more
intentional about their culture.
I walked in on the very firstday and I was meeting with the
leadership team and I was justkind of shocked by what I saw in
front of me.
It was this big long table anda bunch of leaders were around
(07:34):
that table.
It was the whole leadershipteam.
At the end was the CEO and theCOO and they were whispering to
each other and everybody elsewas as still as they possibly
could be and like they were notmoving.
It was so fascinating you couldjust cut the tension with a
knife and I immediately said tomyself uh-oh, right, like
(07:58):
there's so much fear in thissystem.
You can see it right here inthis interaction that the
leaders are afraid to talk.
The leaders are afraid of this,and you could tell the CEO and
COO were the ones they wereafraid of.
And so how in the world wouldyou ever expect that employees
(08:19):
would be able to be coming upwith their best ideas, voicing
new opinions, pushing on newinnovation, if people are scared
?
And so that's the kind of stuffthat I see over and over again
is what's been kind of built andcreated and reinforced in the
(08:40):
culture is not going to line upwith.
Think is the primary reasonswhy organizations should care
about this is you have to knowwhat's really happening, what's
really being enforced andreinforced in the culture.
Um, if and to see, is thishelping us?
(09:03):
Is it helping us move forward?
Is it helping us achieve thethings we're trying to achieve,
or is it holding us back?
Um, and a lot of times it'sholding back, holding us back in
like pretty big ways.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, now you in the book you were talking about, you
can't, and I'm holding myKindle because that's how I read
it.
The culture is a surf it.
Culture won't work if it's onthe surface or a tick box
initiative.
Yeah, and some, some companiestry and shortcut the culture
work.
It sounds like you walked intothat situation and you're like
(09:37):
oh man, we have a lot of work todo.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Completely, completely, and that's all I
mean.
There's a whole long storybehind that.
I worked with them for a fewyears.
But it's classic.
And what I see now is lots oforganizations understand that
they need to focus on culture,but the way they do it is
they'll just start with somevalues, maybe spend some time
(10:01):
with a consultant, you know,like me, and you know have, you
know, a leadership conversationand let's just let's agree on
our values and then they're.
They plop them on their website, put them on, you know, big
stickers behind the receptionistand then they're done.
And that's what I'm trying tokind of push on is, if you do
(10:21):
that work with the leadershipteam, that's just the very
beginning, that's just the start.
Then you actually have to dothe heavy lifting of making it
real.
You have to make itconsistently experienced by
people and that's not by, youknow, doing fun parties and
having all hands events andhanding out swag.
(10:41):
You know this is by the hardwork of changing behavior and
changing practices and changingsystems, and that takes a long
time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, well, you're definitely preaching to the
choir here, I'm sure, Kim.
I'm thinking about ourmenopause friendly worship and
accreditation.
You know we introduced thathere in the US so that menopause
friendly isn't just a tick boxor, you know, a badge that you
put behind the receptionist deskor on your website, because
(11:14):
it's really that long term,sustainable cultural shift that
has to happen and you know, onthat note I'm now.
You've got me thinking aboutmenopause, because that's the
space that we sit in.
Yes, every day, right With thatculture change.
I'm wondering if you can sharewith us some practical ways,
(11:36):
maybe in thinking about themenopause space, that
organizations can designpolicies and practices, like the
flexible working environment,for example, so that we can
ensure inclusivity for thosethat are going through menopause
.
If you were to walk into anorganization and do what you did
with the insurance company,what might you say to an
organization that is trying?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
to create that.
Yeah, I love that, and I thinkthat this is what I was kind of
saying at the very beginning.
Of all the work that I've donein my career, I've realized,
like gosh, you could do all thebest design of these really
great programs and approaches,and if the culture is working
against it, it's going to bereally hard for anything as
(12:19):
important as this the menopausework to really be lived, to
really be accepted, and so I'lljust give a really quick what I
think is an example that'ssimilar.
So I was working with a companyand we had done an employee
survey and there was a greathead of HR and this was before
(12:40):
COVID but basically the resultswere the employees wanted
flexible work right, they wantedto be able to have flexible
work arrangements.
And so the head of HR was superexcited and she worked with her
team and developed this wholereally beautiful plan for how
that was gonna work, howmanagers were gonna support it.
Super excited, and she workedwith her team and developed this
whole really beautiful plan forhow that was going to work, how
managers were going to supportit.
I mean, it was as well done asyou can imagine in the design of
(13:02):
this approach and she walled itout and then looked I don't
know if it was like four monthsor five months later and she saw
that there were only a fewpeople who had taken advantage
of the program.
And she was so bummed becauseit was like a huge, like a huge
number of people on the employeesurvey who had said this was a
(13:23):
problem, an issue.
And so then somebody said toher well, you know why that is
right, please tell me.
And she said the person saidwell, it's because the CEO does
the five o'clock walk.
And she's like what she didn'tknow.
(13:46):
I think she was in a differentlocation than the CEO.
The CEO, every day at fiveo'clock would go and see who was
in the office and took a mentalnote and something as simple as
that that you really wouldn'tthink really would have that
much of an impact.
Everybody knew that that'swonderful that we have this
flexible work, but we know it'sreally valued.
(14:06):
It's butts in seats, it's it'syeah, exactly, and so that's
always my worry and concern.
So people who are interested inreally doing work around topics
like menopause, I would say youhave to dig in and see which
aspects of the culture might beholding this work back.
(14:26):
One of them, the most basic, isdo we actually really
fundamentally value human beings?
You know could be a place tostart and sadly I mean luckily
there are a lot of mostcompanies Just a small thing?
(14:47):
Yeah, most companies do, butthere are some companies where
I've been like really realizingthat you actually don't
fundamentally value human beingsand if you don't, then this
work around menopause wouldn'tgo very far right.
I think you know you all couldcome up with a whole set of
(15:10):
cultural attributes that need tobe in place.
There's things that are related, for sure, to do people have a
voice, do people feel like theycan be themselves at work, a lot
of things related to inclusionand psychological safety, for
sure, but finding out, reallyare those valued?
(15:30):
Would that little profile be inplace so that so this kind of
work could be, could be accepted?
So I, so I think that thatwould be a really cool place to
start.
I mean, just to throw in my own, I definitely like love what
you all are doing and reallyappreciate what you're doing and
(15:52):
have had my I think I might'vementioned to both of you in
prior conversations.
I've definitely had my ownstruggles and it was kind of
like afterwards realizing howmuch of my struggle was pretty.
I could attribute a lot of itto menopause.
This was during it was rightwhen COVID hit and menopause hit
(16:15):
me hard on a plane.
I I thought that when peoplewould go through menopause, that
it would be like a slow, veryslowly, I'm going to start
feeling this and for me it wasone plane ride and it hit me
like like a car crash.
It was so bad, like like a carcrash.
It was so bad and um, but thenyou know the the year after that
(16:38):
really struggling with it.
And it was right, when I decidedto leave a job that I was
pretty invested in, um, andthere were it's always complex,
right, it's never just like, oh,it was just that, but um, I
attribute a lot of my decisionsto leave were lack of sleep.
Feeling completely like for ayear not sleeping.
(17:02):
That will mess with you.
Anyway, I'm happy to talk moreabout my story because I wish I
had learned more about how muchthis would affect how I felt
about my job.
I never really thought about itbefore and this was only a
couple of years ago.
You know that this happened.
This wasn't like 20 years agoand you know, thinking about,
(17:26):
did I feel like I could speak upabout that?
Did I feel like I could behonest about that?
I don't think so.
I mean it just didn't feel likeI could.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, it's the safe you need, a safe place you need
to feel safe, yeah, and we hearand we recommend to
organizations almost every timethat we share with them, that
senior leadership has to beinvolved and it really does have
(17:59):
to come from senior leadershipor things don't change.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Absolutely, and that's what one of the reasons
why I called this book the Powerof Culture is because power is
completely intricately, you know, entwined with culture.
So that's how really we take.
A lot of our learning inorganizations is looking to
(18:25):
people who we think have made itin the system.
Right, and those people who'vemade it are the people at the
top, and so those people are whowe look to like they figured
this out, so we should do whatthey do, I should, I should like
learn from them, and so it's areally interesting learning and
adapting process that happenswhen we learn about culture.
And so if the people at the topare not talking about anything
(18:49):
like this, right, anythingpersonal, and definitely not
talking about menopausethemselves, you know, um,
anything that's puts them in avulnerable state or like being
honest about something that youknow they can't control, um,
it's, it's, it's really hard,right, and so power is a really
(19:09):
important part of these kinds ofconversations.
We have to have leaders who getunderstand their power and
understand their influence andare supportive and, you know,
really walk the talk around this.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Show, not tell.
We say there's a differencebetween show versus tell.
Yes completely.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Laura, you have been a part of a lot of companies
implementing well-being policiesand processes and procedures
like menopause.
It'd be interesting to get yourperspective on what works for
doing those kinds of things andwhat doesn't.
What should you know whensomebody listening to this works
(19:54):
in a company where this stuffisn't being talked about yet, or
they want to bring it up?
Because one of the things weget asked is how can we make
this happen at our company?
Right, and the studies haveshown the number one reason why
it's not there is because nobodyasks for it.
Nobody asked for it, so you'reexpecting your company to read
(20:17):
your mind on what it is right.
But as a company is rolling thisout and, and you know, it's a
new sort of way in which they'resupporting their employees.
What will make it successfuland what have you seen not
successful in that space?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So the not successful is putting it as a little side
program that's on a websitesomewhere that you know, like
you all are free to go and takeadvantage of that resource.
I mean it's great, it stillwill help some people, but it's
not going to be really usedunless you have a this term that
(20:59):
I use that's it's not my term,but it's organizational support,
right?
Organizational support theoryis this idea that to what extent
does the whole organization,meaning all the human beings at
all different levels, and allthe systems and all the
processes and all the structures, to what extent are those in
(21:21):
support of the human beings thatare there?
And so you can't just have thisgood resource or tool or
program and not haveorganizational support.
If you have organizationalsupport, it's much more likely
that the real outcome will beachieved of, you know, helping
(21:42):
people.
You know live better lifethrough these kinds of things
like menopause, and so thatlooks like manager support.
You know, to what extent does amanager really understand this?
To what extent does a managershow through their actions that
they're supportive, but alsoleadership support and having
(22:04):
leaders, like you were justsaying.
Having leaders, you know, again, not just talk but also act,
and then a big part of that isalso cultural alignment and
making sure that you know thisis working, that the culture is
working in line with this.
So I think that that's, youknow, easier said than done, for
sure, but it's really helpingorganizations understand that
(22:28):
you don't just say yes tosomething like this and then
like, turn it on.
This is what people used tothink when we the company that I
helped start, right Limeadethat was focused on wellbeing,
especially in the beginning is,oh, we're just gonna get your
software and we're gonna turn iton and then everybody's gonna
have wellbeing.
And it was like oh yeah, weneed to teach people something a
(22:51):
little different about this.
We need to help them understandthat.
No, no, no, no.
This is gonna facilitate that,but there's a whole bunch of
things that you need to do andif you really are committed to
this, if you really want thisfor your employees, there are
things that you have to do andit has to become real.
And it's exactly the same thingI'm saying with the culture
work right, you can do, you cancreate these values, you can put
(23:14):
them on your website, but it'snot gonna, it's not gonna matter
unless people experience it.
In fact, I have this term in mybook around when there's a
disconnect between what Ithought I was getting into and
so this could be similar rightto what you all are doing in
your work.
If people think, oh, myorganization actually cares
(23:37):
about this experience I'm havingof going through menopause,
cares about this experience I'mhaving of going through
menopause, and they say they do,but then what actually happens
goes against that.
So I was sold something, Ibought it and that's not what I
got.
That actually can have anegative effect.
It's not just a no effect,right, and from a culture
(23:59):
perspective, I call thatcultural betrayal, right.
So you thought you were gettingthis culture that's on the
website of how amazing thisplace is, and then you get there
and you don't experience it.
It can have a pretty likedramatic effect on people.
So it's it's kind of a big dealto do the work, you know, and I
(24:19):
think I think that's just thething that I see over and over
again is it's it's kind of a bigdeal to do the work, you know,
and I think that's just thething that I see over and over
again.
It's about doing with regard tothe book that I wrote, but it's
doing the culture work.
You gotta roll up your sleeves,you gotta figure this out for
your organization.
There's not this like easyanswer that unfortunately, I
feel like most people don't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Your book didn't tell me like, do one through ten and
you're good, which is fine.
It was really great of like youknow how do you think about
your culture and how do you it.
What is it first off and thenwhat is what is the work that
you need to do?
And I think it was um, you'vegiven lots of great examples,
but I think you give a lot ofgreat examples of that people
(25:02):
can relate to.
I think the idea that you talkabout how, once you're in a
culture, you can't reallyexperience, you don't really
know what the culture is,probably till you leave, I think
that's an interesting, aninteresting place to be too, or
experience something differentright.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And you know, you don't know what you don't know
because you don't see it anymore.
It reminds me when we boughtour first house and it was an
old house, it looks like BradyBunch, right, the avocado, you
know, green refrigerator in thegold countertops.
And you know, I remembersitting around with our friends
and he said to us it was theswitch plates.
(25:40):
They were so awful and Iremember Kevin just saying y'all
need to make a list of thesethings because you're not going
to see the switch plates, right,like you won't the longer
you're here and it's going totake you a while with this house
, you're not going to see theswitch plates anymore.
And it's the same thing, right?
We just don't.
We don't't see the switchplates because it just becomes
(26:02):
part of, you know, coming towork in this culture.
And so sometimes those outsideeyes are really good for
somebody to come in.
And you know my, it would be mysister to say why have you not
changed those switch plates?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Such a great example, and I think also thinking about
new employees when they comeand kind of question things and
say what?
What do you mean?
Nobody asks questions at yourall hands, you know.
Or what do you mean?
That that leader, nobody canask them a question, you know?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Right right what.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, what?
What about those switchblades?
Yeah, I think that's a greatexample.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I think that's a great example.
So, Laura, in your work, whatkind of themes are you seeing
for cultures these days, Likehow are we evolving?
Are we evolving in the rightdirection?
Do you see?
Give us good news.
Yeah, do you see employeewell-being and programs such as
you know, menopause support oryou know, you name the life
event that people go through.
(26:59):
What are sort of the broadertrends that you're seeing?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
There's much more of an openness and understanding of
the human beings that are doingthis work.
We need to value them, and sothat is encouraging, right.
I think there was a time when Iwas first doing culture work
where it was the actualattributes we focused on were
(27:27):
more be a really important partof the conversation, kind of the
(27:48):
center, or at least a core partof the conversations.
It's encouraging.
Now, the way that goes downvaries from company to company
and how much they want toemphasize, you know, specific
things like the well-being oftheir employees is it's more on
a continuum, right.
Like I'm working with this onecompany right now and they
wanted they put wellbeing intotheir values, but I don't think
(28:11):
they really know what it means.
You know, I'm like this isgoing to be hard because you're
going to have to practice this.
You're going to have to like,make this real.
So I would love for you to diginto that.
So, yeah, so, um, yeah, I thinkthat's that's encouraging the
idea of being human centric andthinking about, you know, what
(28:35):
people.
What humans need is isdefinitely, and it could be also
like I probably wouldn't behired by somebody who didn't
think that.
So who knows right I'm probablynot getting all those winning
bro culture things.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But the good news is that there are companies that
are hiring you that do valuethat, so it's good, completely.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, and I think I mean I, I am still super
optimistic about culture workbecause I keep seeing.
So there are definitelycompanies that are not doing
anything related to culture andkeep their head in the sand and
aren't, you know, aren't payingattention to it.
(29:21):
But I, you know, I see thesecompanies that do the work, that
do the heavy lifting and thenstart figuring it out and just
see how awesome it is when itstarts to click right and when
it starts to really land withemployees and that's such a
beautiful thing to be a part of,to see that happen and see how
(29:42):
powerful it is.
That's another reason why Iwanted to call the book the
Power of Culture is because thatthe power of it is.
I use a picture on the front ofthe book of a sunshine.
Right, it's like the sun.
When you have all of this startto become real and experienced
by people, it feels really good.
(30:03):
To become real and experiencedby people, it feels really good
and it feels like we can doanything together right, if we
kind of are united in this way.
So I get to see that, and sothat's why I continue to be
optimistic about it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Cool work.
I love that.
I love that, as I was going toask you what happens on the
other side when that happens,but you just painted that visual
of the sun and coming togetherand answered that question so
beautifully and I didn't evenhave to ask it.
I love that.
Well, laura, how can peoplefind you?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
yeah, so LinkedIn is probably my main way, so
definitely connect with me onLinkedIn.
It it's just Laura Hamill,h-a-m-i-l-l, and also my book
that is on sale on Amazon and onBarnes and Noble and Porchlight
like all the typical kind ofplaces you would buy a book, and
(30:55):
it's called the Power ofCulture.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
So those are the main ways.
So great, what a gift.
Thank you for taking the timeto write the book.
It's that's not an easy task,so congratulations on that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, so much of your time.
Are you ready to move and havea little bit of fun, so we can
get a little bit on a personallevel with our fire round?
Yes, all right, let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Kim, you want me to start?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
fire first.
Are you a morning?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
person or a night owl Morning, big time, early
morning, frighteningly early, Iloved you.
Laura.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I have so many texts from April.
Who's already done so muchthinking before I get out of bed
.
It's crazy.
I see you, laura.
Okay, are you a binge watcher,or do you have to watch the
whole season, or do you want towatch episodes and switch
between shows?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's a hard one, cause I feel like there's
surface level stuff on binge andbetter stuff I do over time
Like if it has a good plot Iwant to savor it, if it has a
crappy plot, I'm okay, justwatching it back to back to back
.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
I just have to ask it's not,it's not on our list, but what's
your favorite thing to binge?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Any recommendations?
Well, after the election, I wasdoing Bridgerton for some
reason.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I just wanted to see, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah just
wanted to see that kind of sexystuff.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's good , bridgerton's good, yeah, okay.
So salty or sweet, oh salty.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yes, we are just like .
Sisters from another mother arelike.
You guys have me out on both ofthose, so okay.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh, I love that.
Okay, and the last questionthat we ask everyone what's the
best piece of advice that you'veever received?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
So this was in some ways it's advice, and sometimes
it's kind of.
In some ways it's kind of anexercise.
The best it was sit down, get ablank piece of paper and design
your perfect day is sit down,get a blank piece of paper and
design your perfect day.
And I did it and I was honestand I was embarrassed.
I remember doing it, going, oh,who gets to do this?
(33:32):
Like this is.
So I feel so like privilegedand so gross by saying, well, I
want to take my time and I wantto drink my two cups of coffee
slow, and then I want toexercise for a couple of hours
and then I want to do somethinking work, and then in the
(33:52):
afternoon maybe I'll meet withpeople and then I want to walk
the dog with my husband and solike something like that Right.
And I remember when I wrote itI was like like that Right.
And I remember when I wrote itI was like, oh, this feels a
little barfy, like who gets tohave a life like this?
So my therapist is the one whosuggested I do that Right, and I
wrote it down and a couple,maybe six months ago, she said
(34:14):
you know, you're actually doingall of the things that you had
written down have all come tofruition.
And it's kind of weird becauseI have this main client that I
work with who is in New Zealand,and they start my start with
them is in the afternoon, and soI just I do a lot of my meeting
time with them.
(34:34):
In the afternoon I have otherclients, but it's they're the
ones that are like the bulk ofmy, of my work and so and then
now I do the take my time andlike it all kind of is happening
.
And so what I realized is thatuntil I could write it down and
like actually, even though itwas hard to do, like say this is
I actually could do this, thismight be possible, I couldn't
(34:57):
even put it into action.
So that was really good advicefrom my therapist.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Wow, yeah, really good.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's great.
I know we should all do that.
I'm thinking gosh, that's agreat exercise for the new year.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Slow coffee in the morning.
For sure man, Slow coffee inthe morning.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Slow coffee and then we'll compare notes.
Kim, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I think it's a great exercisefor all of us to walk through
and thank your therapist as well.
Great advice.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Seriously so good.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, it has been a pleasure having you on.
Thank you for your book.
Thank you for the content thatyou've provided for our audience
.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Laura, and thank you for the support that you've
given to April and I throughoutour process of our forming to
where we are now.
You were, you've beeninvaluable in in supporting us
there, so we appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I love that and I love what you both are doing.
Thank you both for what you'redoing.
It's really, really importantand I think it's going to help
so many people.
So thank you, thanks for havingme.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, happy holiday and listeners until we meet
again.
Go find joy in the journey.
Bye, laura, take care.
Bye, laura, thank you.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
(36:24):
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast
Business Edition, your trustedsource for insights on menopause
and midlife in the workplace.
Each episode featuresmeaningful conversations with
inspiring guests.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello everybody, Welcome to the show today.
I'm excited to host LauraHamill.
Laura and I worked together atMicrosoft years ago and she just
wrote a book called the Powerof Culture, which is inspiring
for those that want to create agreat culture in the
organizations that they work.
Welcome, Laura, it's nice tosee you.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yes, thanks so much for having me.
I'm excited to talk with you.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh, that's great.
So tell us a little bit aboutwho you are, your background and
why you wrote this book.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, so I am a mom and a wife.
I like to like try to teachmyself, to start with that right
, like I'm something besides mywork.
So I live in the Seattle area,live in Woodinville, washington,
and I am also an organizationalpsychologist, so a psychologist
(01:10):
applied to work, and I've hadsome really cool work
experiences.
I worked at Microsoft for along time.
I helped start a softwarecompany called Limeade.
I also have run my ownconsulting practice for a long
time and right now in the lastkind of iteration of my
consulting practice, I've beenfocused on organizational
(01:33):
culture and how do you reallyget intentional about it, how do
you understand it, and that'swhy I wrote this book.
So I wrote a book called thePower of Culture and it's really
the reason why I wanted towrite it.
There's a couple differentreasons.
One of them is all thedifferent things I've done in my
career.
I've been done, really hadculture at the heart.
(01:56):
Right, if I really wanted tochange something, improve
something, we had to understandculture, and so that was one of
the reasons why because it's soimportant I also have had these
(02:16):
roles in these different youknow, these multiple decades
that I've been working.
I've had roles as being thehead of research or science
groups where I've studiedculture from more of an academic
perspective, but then I alsohave had roles where I was the
head of HR, so the chief peopleofficer, and then trying to
think about it from a practicalperspective, like how does this
(02:38):
really go down?
And there's such a gap between,like, what research and science
says you're supposed to do whenit comes to culture and then
what actually happens, and sothat was another reason I wanted
to try to like bridge that gapa little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Love it.
So when you talk aboutorganization, organizational
culture, how do you define itand why is it important in
today's environment?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
So I'd like to use science to define it.
It's the underlying values andnorms and beliefs of an
organization and if you thinkabout an iceberg, it's the stuff
that's down deep, the stuffthat's really hard.
It's not the stuff on thesurface, it's all the whys, whys
, whys that go underneath that.
So if you happen to seesomething at work, you know on
(03:25):
the surface so let's say youwalked into a new office that
you maybe hadn't been to beforeand you look on the surface and
it looks like everybody's superbusy, just running around busy.
That is not culture.
That actually is climate.
That's kind of what thetemperature feels like.
Right, when you are trying tounderstand culture, you have to
(03:46):
start asking why?
So why does it feel that way?
So why does it feel busy?
So it could feel busy becausethere's just a lot of exciting
innovations going on and there'sa lot of really cool stuff
happening.
That could be a really goodreason why it feels busy.
It also could feel busy becauseit's disjointed and people are
disconnected and they're tryingto figure things out.
(04:07):
So that's a very differentreason why it could be busy.
It also could be feeling busybecause just acting like you're
busy and having activity isvalued in the organization
versus really doing things thatare meaningfully important,
right?
So there's a lot of differentreasons why it could feel busy,
and so when we're understandingculture, we have to dig in, we
(04:29):
have to dig really deep to tryto understand that.
And so what's tricky and I think, also super interesting about
culture is that once you'vebecome part of it, you can't
even really see it anymore.
And so the idea you've probablyheard the analogy of you know,
does a goldfish even know it'sswimming in water?
(04:49):
So it's like culture being thewater that we swim in.
It's so natural to us, it's soeasy and obvious around what's
around us that we don't even seeit anymore.
So I think that's one of thebiggest reasons why culture can
be so hard is you don't even seeyour water.
So why is it so important?
So you can think about all ofus working or having worked
(05:14):
before we know.
The obvious reason why it'simportant is that it affects our
experience, right, it affectshow we feel about work.
So that's a big deal From anemployee's perspective.
It really does influence theemployee experience.
But if you think about it fromkind of an organizational
perspective or a leader'sperspective, you're going to
(05:35):
have a culture right.
You have a culture and whatoftentimes leaders don't
understand is that that cultureactually might not be helping
the organization achieve itsgoals.
It might actually be workingagainst some of the things that
you're trying to achieve.
In fact, I see that over andover again a real disconnect
(05:56):
between business strategy andthe actual culture, and a lot of
times it's really like blatant,like big time disconnect
between culture and what you'retrying to achieve Interesting.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Why is it?
Well, I was just going to askon that same note, then why is
it essential for organizationsto proactively shape their
culture?
Otherwise it's going toorganically happen, right?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yes, and I'm thinking about your- latter point that
you just made.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I'll let you answer that, but I think you answered
it a little bit.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So this is the stuff that I'vebeen fascinated by is when I
start to work with organizationsand I see that disconnect.
I'll just give you a realexample and like a very obvious
one.
So I was working with a largeinsurance company and they had
this big strategic shift andthey were going to work on some
(06:51):
pretty innovative, pretty marketchanging different strategies,
which you know innovation andinsurance doesn't usually go
hand in hand.
You know you don't think ofthose together, but they were
doing some pretty cool things ortrying to write.
That was their plan, that wastheir strategy.
They knew kind ofintellectually that their
(07:12):
culture needed to be alignedwith that.
But so they hired me.
They hired me to come in andhelp them really get more
intentional about their culture.
I walked in on the very firstday and I was meeting with the
leadership team and I was justkind of shocked by what I saw in
front of me.
It was this big long table anda bunch of leaders were around
(07:34):
that table.
It was the whole leadershipteam.
At the end was the CEO and theCOO and they were whispering to
each other and everybody elsewas as still as they possibly
could be and like they were notmoving.
It was so fascinating you couldjust cut the tension with a
knife and I immediately said tomyself uh-oh, right, like
(07:58):
there's so much fear in thissystem.
You can see it right here inthis interaction that the
leaders are afraid to talk.
The leaders are afraid of this,and you could tell the CEO and
COO were the ones they wereafraid of.
And so how in the world wouldyou ever expect that employees
(08:19):
would be able to be coming upwith their best ideas, voicing
new opinions, pushing on newinnovation, if people are scared
?
And so that's the kind of stuffthat I see over and over again
is what's been kind of built andcreated and reinforced in the
(08:40):
culture is not going to line upwith.
Think is the primary reasonswhy organizations should care
about this is you have to knowwhat's really happening, what's
really being enforced andreinforced in the culture.
Um, if and to see, is thishelping us?
(09:03):
Is it helping us move forward?
Is it helping us achieve thethings we're trying to achieve,
or is it holding us back?
Um, and a lot of times it'sholding back, holding us back in
like pretty big ways.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, now you in the book you were talking about, you
can't, and I'm holding myKindle because that's how I read
it.
The culture is a surf it.
Culture won't work if it's onthe surface or a tick box
initiative.
Yeah, and some, some companiestry and shortcut the culture
work.
It sounds like you walked intothat situation and you're like
(09:37):
oh man, we have a lot of work todo.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Completely, completely, and that's all I
mean.
There's a whole long storybehind that.
I worked with them for a fewyears.
But it's classic.
And what I see now is lots oforganizations understand that
they need to focus on culture,but the way they do it is
they'll just start with somevalues, maybe spend some time
(10:01):
with a consultant, you know,like me, and you know have, you
know, a leadership conversationand let's just let's agree on
our values and then they're.
They plop them on their website, put them on, you know, big
stickers behind the receptionistand then they're done.
And that's what I'm trying tokind of push on is, if you do
(10:21):
that work with the leadershipteam, that's just the very
beginning, that's just the start.
Then you actually have to dothe heavy lifting of making it
real.
You have to make itconsistently experienced by
people and that's not by, youknow, doing fun parties and
having all hands events andhanding out swag.
(10:41):
You know this is by the hardwork of changing behavior and
changing practices and changingsystems, and that takes a long
time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah, well, you're definitely preaching to the
choir here, I'm sure, Kim.
I'm thinking about ourmenopause friendly worship and
accreditation.
You know we introduced thathere in the US so that menopause
friendly isn't just a tick boxor, you know, a badge that you
put behind the receptionist deskor on your website, because
(11:14):
it's really that long term,sustainable cultural shift that
has to happen and you know, onthat note I'm now.
You've got me thinking aboutmenopause, because that's the
space that we sit in.
Yes, every day, right With thatculture change.
I'm wondering if you can sharewith us some practical ways,
(11:36):
maybe in thinking about themenopause space, that
organizations can designpolicies and practices, like the
flexible working environment,for example, so that we can
ensure inclusivity for thosethat are going through menopause
.
If you were to walk into anorganization and do what you did
with the insurance company,what might you say to an
organization that is trying?
Speaker 3 (11:58):
to create that.
Yeah, I love that, and I thinkthat this is what I was kind of
saying at the very beginning.
Of all the work that I've donein my career, I've realized,
like gosh, you could do all thebest design of these really
great programs and approaches,and if the culture is working
against it, it's going to bereally hard for anything as
(12:19):
important as this the menopausework to really be lived, to
really be accepted, and so I'lljust give a really quick what I
think is an example that'ssimilar.
So I was working with a companyand we had done an employee
survey and there was a greathead of HR and this was before
(12:40):
COVID but basically the resultswere the employees wanted
flexible work right, they wantedto be able to have flexible
work arrangements.
And so the head of HR was superexcited and she worked with her
team and developed this wholereally beautiful plan for how
that was gonna work, howmanagers were gonna support it.
Super excited, and she workedwith her team and developed this
whole really beautiful plan forhow that was going to work, how
managers were going to supportit.
I mean, it was as well done asyou can imagine in the design of
(13:02):
this approach and she walled itout and then looked I don't
know if it was like four monthsor five months later and she saw
that there were only a fewpeople who had taken advantage
of the program.
And she was so bummed becauseit was like a huge, like a huge
number of people on the employeesurvey who had said this was a
(13:23):
problem, an issue.
And so then somebody said toher well, you know why that is
right, please tell me.
And she said the person saidwell, it's because the CEO does
the five o'clock walk.
And she's like what she didn'tknow.
(13:46):
I think she was in a differentlocation than the CEO.
The CEO, every day at fiveo'clock would go and see who was
in the office and took a mentalnote and something as simple as
that that you really wouldn'tthink really would have that
much of an impact.
Everybody knew that that'swonderful that we have this
flexible work, but we know it'sreally valued.
(14:06):
It's butts in seats, it's it'syeah, exactly, and so that's
always my worry and concern.
So people who are interested inreally doing work around topics
like menopause, I would say youhave to dig in and see which
aspects of the culture might beholding this work back.
(14:26):
One of them, the most basic, isdo we actually really
fundamentally value human beings?
You know could be a place tostart and sadly I mean luckily
there are a lot of mostcompanies Just a small thing?
(14:47):
Yeah, most companies do, butthere are some companies where
I've been like really realizingthat you actually don't
fundamentally value human beingsand if you don't, then this
work around menopause wouldn'tgo very far right.
I think you know you all couldcome up with a whole set of
(15:10):
cultural attributes that need tobe in place.
There's things that are related, for sure, to do people have a
voice, do people feel like theycan be themselves at work, a lot
of things related to inclusionand psychological safety, for
sure, but finding out, reallyare those valued?
(15:30):
Would that little profile be inplace so that so this kind of
work could be, could be accepted?
So I, so I think that thatwould be a really cool place to
start.
I mean, just to throw in my own, I definitely like love what
you all are doing and reallyappreciate what you're doing and
(15:52):
have had my I think I might'vementioned to both of you in
prior conversations.
I've definitely had my ownstruggles and it was kind of
like afterwards realizing howmuch of my struggle was pretty.
I could attribute a lot of itto menopause.
This was during it was rightwhen COVID hit and menopause hit
(16:15):
me hard on a plane.
I I thought that when peoplewould go through menopause, that
it would be like a slow, veryslowly, I'm going to start
feeling this and for me it wasone plane ride and it hit me
like like a car crash.
It was so bad, like like a carcrash.
It was so bad and um, but thenyou know the the year after that
(16:38):
really struggling with it.
And it was right, when I decidedto leave a job that I was
pretty invested in, um, andthere were it's always complex,
right, it's never just like, oh,it was just that, but um, I
attribute a lot of my decisionsto leave were lack of sleep.
Feeling completely like for ayear not sleeping.
(17:02):
That will mess with you.
Anyway, I'm happy to talk moreabout my story because I wish I
had learned more about how muchthis would affect how I felt
about my job.
I never really thought about itbefore and this was only a
couple of years ago.
You know that this happened.
This wasn't like 20 years agoand you know, thinking about,
(17:26):
did I feel like I could speak upabout that?
Did I feel like I could behonest about that?
I don't think so.
I mean it just didn't feel likeI could.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, it's the safe you need, a safe place you need
to feel safe, yeah, and we hearand we recommend to
organizations almost every timethat we share with them, that
senior leadership has to beinvolved and it really does have
(17:59):
to come from senior leadershipor things don't change.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Absolutely, and that's what one of the reasons
why I called this book the Powerof Culture is because power is
completely intricately, you know, entwined with culture.
So that's how really we take.
A lot of our learning inorganizations is looking to
(18:25):
people who we think have made itin the system.
Right, and those people who'vemade it are the people at the
top, and so those people are whowe look to like they figured
this out, so we should do whatthey do, I should, I should like
learn from them, and so it's areally interesting learning and
adapting process that happenswhen we learn about culture.
And so if the people at the topare not talking about anything
(18:49):
like this, right, anythingpersonal, and definitely not
talking about menopausethemselves, you know, um,
anything that's puts them in avulnerable state or like being
honest about something that youknow they can't control, um,
it's, it's, it's really hard,right, and so power is a really
(19:09):
important part of these kinds ofconversations.
We have to have leaders who getunderstand their power and
understand their influence andare supportive and, you know,
really walk the talk around this.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Show, not tell.
We say there's a differencebetween show versus tell.
Yes completely.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Laura, you have been a part of a lot of companies
implementing well-being policiesand processes and procedures
like menopause.
It'd be interesting to get yourperspective on what works for
doing those kinds of things andwhat doesn't.
What should you know whensomebody listening to this works
(19:54):
in a company where this stuffisn't being talked about yet, or
they want to bring it up?
Because one of the things weget asked is how can we make
this happen at our company?
Right, and the studies haveshown the number one reason why
it's not there is because nobodyasks for it.
Nobody asked for it, so you'reexpecting your company to read
(20:17):
your mind on what it is right.
But as a company is rolling thisout and, and you know, it's a
new sort of way in which they'resupporting their employees.
What will make it successfuland what have you seen not
successful in that space?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
So the not successful is putting it as a little side
program that's on a websitesomewhere that you know, like
you all are free to go and takeadvantage of that resource.
I mean it's great, it stillwill help some people, but it's
not going to be really usedunless you have a this term that
(20:59):
I use that's it's not my term,but it's organizational support,
right?
Organizational support theoryis this idea that to what extent
does the whole organization,meaning all the human beings at
all different levels, and allthe systems and all the
processes and all the structures, to what extent are those in
(21:21):
support of the human beings thatare there?
And so you can't just have thisgood resource or tool or
program and not haveorganizational support.
If you have organizationalsupport, it's much more likely
that the real outcome will beachieved of, you know, helping
(21:42):
people.
You know live better lifethrough these kinds of things
like menopause, and so thatlooks like manager support.
You know, to what extent does amanager really understand this?
To what extent does a managershow through their actions that
they're supportive, but alsoleadership support and having
(22:04):
leaders, like you were justsaying.
Having leaders, you know, again, not just talk but also act,
and then a big part of that isalso cultural alignment and
making sure that you know thisis working, that the culture is
working in line with this.
So I think that that's, youknow, easier said than done, for
sure, but it's really helpingorganizations understand that
(22:28):
you don't just say yes tosomething like this and then
like, turn it on.
This is what people used tothink when we the company that I
helped start, right Limeadethat was focused on wellbeing,
especially in the beginning is,oh, we're just gonna get your
software and we're gonna turn iton and then everybody's gonna
have wellbeing.
And it was like oh yeah, weneed to teach people something a
(22:51):
little different about this.
We need to help them understandthat.
No, no, no, no.
This is gonna facilitate that,but there's a whole bunch of
things that you need to do andif you really are committed to
this, if you really want thisfor your employees, there are
things that you have to do andit has to become real.
And it's exactly the same thingI'm saying with the culture
work right, you can do, you cancreate these values, you can put
(23:14):
them on your website, but it'snot gonna, it's not gonna matter
unless people experience it.
In fact, I have this term in mybook around when there's a
disconnect between what Ithought I was getting into and
so this could be similar rightto what you all are doing in
your work.
If people think, oh, myorganization actually cares
(23:37):
about this experience I'm havingof going through menopause,
cares about this experience I'mhaving of going through
menopause, and they say they do,but then what actually happens
goes against that.
So I was sold something, Ibought it and that's not what I
got.
That actually can have anegative effect.
It's not just a no effect,right, and from a culture
(23:59):
perspective, I call thatcultural betrayal, right.
So you thought you were gettingthis culture that's on the
website of how amazing thisplace is, and then you get there
and you don't experience it.
It can have a pretty likedramatic effect on people.
So it's it's kind of a big dealto do the work, you know, and I
(24:19):
think I think that's just thething that I see over and over
again is it's it's kind of a bigdeal to do the work, you know,
and I think that's just thething that I see over and over
again.
It's about doing with regard tothe book that I wrote, but it's
doing the culture work.
You gotta roll up your sleeves,you gotta figure this out for
your organization.
There's not this like easyanswer that unfortunately, I
feel like most people don't.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Your book didn't tell me like, do one through ten and
you're good, which is fine.
It was really great of like youknow how do you think about
your culture and how do you it.
What is it first off and thenwhat is what is the work that
you need to do?
And I think it was um, you'vegiven lots of great examples,
but I think you give a lot ofgreat examples of that people
(25:02):
can relate to.
I think the idea that you talkabout how, once you're in a
culture, you can't reallyexperience, you don't really
know what the culture is,probably till you leave, I think
that's an interesting, aninteresting place to be too, or
experience something differentright.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And you know, you don't know what you don't know
because you don't see it anymore.
It reminds me when we boughtour first house and it was an
old house, it looks like BradyBunch, right, the avocado, you
know, green refrigerator in thegold countertops.
And you know, I remembersitting around with our friends
and he said to us it was theswitch plates.
(25:40):
They were so awful and Iremember Kevin just saying y'all
need to make a list of thesethings because you're not going
to see the switch plates, right,like you won't the longer
you're here and it's going totake you a while with this house
, you're not going to see theswitch plates anymore.
And it's the same thing, right?
We just don't.
We don't't see the switchplates because it just becomes
(26:02):
part of, you know, coming towork in this culture.
And so sometimes those outsideeyes are really good for
somebody to come in.
And you know my, it would be mysister to say why have you not
changed those switch plates?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Such a great example, and I think also thinking about
new employees when they comeand kind of question things and
say what?
What do you mean?
Nobody asks questions at yourall hands, you know.
Or what do you mean?
That that leader, nobody canask them a question, you know?
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Right right what.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Yeah, what?
What about those switchblades?
Yeah, I think that's a greatexample.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I think that's a great example.
So, Laura, in your work, whatkind of themes are you seeing
for cultures these days, Likehow are we evolving?
Are we evolving in the rightdirection?
Do you see?
Give us good news.
Yeah, do you see employeewell-being and programs such as
you know, menopause support oryou know, you name the life
event that people go through.
(26:59):
What are sort of the broadertrends that you're seeing?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
There's much more of an openness and understanding of
the human beings that are doingthis work.
We need to value them, and sothat is encouraging, right.
I think there was a time when Iwas first doing culture work
where it was the actualattributes we focused on were
(27:27):
more be a really important partof the conversation, kind of the
(27:48):
center, or at least a core partof the conversations.
It's encouraging.
Now, the way that goes downvaries from company to company
and how much they want toemphasize, you know, specific
things like the well-being oftheir employees is it's more on
a continuum, right.
Like I'm working with this onecompany right now and they
wanted they put wellbeing intotheir values, but I don't think
(28:11):
they really know what it means.
You know, I'm like this isgoing to be hard because you're
going to have to practice this.
You're going to have to like,make this real.
So I would love for you to diginto that.
So, yeah, so, um, yeah, I thinkthat's that's encouraging the
idea of being human centric andthinking about, you know, what
(28:35):
people.
What humans need is isdefinitely, and it could be also
like I probably wouldn't behired by somebody who didn't
think that.
So who knows right I'm probablynot getting all those winning
bro culture things.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
But the good news is that there are companies that
are hiring you that do valuethat, so it's good, completely.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, and I think I mean I, I am still super
optimistic about culture workbecause I keep seeing.
So there are definitelycompanies that are not doing
anything related to culture andkeep their head in the sand and
aren't, you know, aren't payingattention to it.
(29:21):
But I, you know, I see thesecompanies that do the work, that
do the heavy lifting and thenstart figuring it out and just
see how awesome it is when itstarts to click right and when
it starts to really land withemployees and that's such a
beautiful thing to be a part of,to see that happen and see how
(29:42):
powerful it is.
That's another reason why Iwanted to call the book the
Power of Culture is because thatthe power of it is.
I use a picture on the front ofthe book of a sunshine.
Right, it's like the sun.
When you have all of this startto become real and experienced
by people, it feels really good.
(30:03):
To become real and experiencedby people, it feels really good
and it feels like we can doanything together right, if we
kind of are united in this way.
So I get to see that, and sothat's why I continue to be
optimistic about it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Cool work.
I love that.
I love that, as I was going toask you what happens on the
other side when that happens,but you just painted that visual
of the sun and coming togetherand answered that question so
beautifully and I didn't evenhave to ask it.
I love that.
Well, laura, how can peoplefind you?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
yeah, so LinkedIn is probably my main way, so
definitely connect with me onLinkedIn.
It it's just Laura Hamill,h-a-m-i-l-l, and also my book
that is on sale on Amazon and onBarnes and Noble and Porchlight
like all the typical kind ofplaces you would buy a book, and
(30:55):
it's called the Power ofCulture.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
So those are the main ways.
So great, what a gift.
Thank you for taking the timeto write the book.
It's that's not an easy task,so congratulations on that.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, so much of your time.
Are you ready to move and havea little bit of fun, so we can
get a little bit on a personallevel with our fire round?
Yes, all right, let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Kim, you want me to start?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
fire first.
Are you a morning?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
person or a night owl Morning, big time, early
morning, frighteningly early, Iloved you.
Laura.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I have so many texts from April.
Who's already done so muchthinking before I get out of bed
.
It's crazy.
I see you, laura.
Okay, are you a binge watcher,or do you have to watch the
whole season, or do you want towatch episodes and switch
between shows?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's a hard one, cause I feel like there's
surface level stuff on binge andbetter stuff I do over time
Like if it has a good plot Iwant to savor it, if it has a
crappy plot, I'm okay, justwatching it back to back to back
.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, yeah, okay.
I just have to ask it's not,it's not on our list, but what's
your favorite thing to binge?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Any recommendations?
Well, after the election, I wasdoing Bridgerton for some
reason.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I just wanted to see, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah just
wanted to see that kind of sexystuff.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's good , bridgerton's good, yeah, okay.
So salty or sweet, oh salty.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yes, we are just like .
Sisters from another mother arelike.
You guys have me out on both ofthose, so okay.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh, I love that.
Okay, and the last questionthat we ask everyone what's the
best piece of advice that you'veever received?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
So this was in some ways it's advice, and sometimes
it's kind of.
In some ways it's kind of anexercise.
The best it was sit down, get ablank piece of paper and design
your perfect day is sit down,get a blank piece of paper and
design your perfect day.
And I did it and I was honestand I was embarrassed.
I remember doing it, going, oh,who gets to do this?
(33:32):
Like this is.
So I feel so like privilegedand so gross by saying, well, I
want to take my time and I wantto drink my two cups of coffee
slow, and then I want toexercise for a couple of hours
and then I want to do somethinking work, and then in the
(33:52):
afternoon maybe I'll meet withpeople and then I want to walk
the dog with my husband and solike something like that Right.
And I remember when I wrote itI was like like that Right.
And I remember when I wrote itI was like, oh, this feels a
little barfy, like who gets tohave a life like this?
So my therapist is the one whosuggested I do that Right, and I
wrote it down and a couple,maybe six months ago, she said
(34:14):
you know, you're actually doingall of the things that you had
written down have all come tofruition.
And it's kind of weird becauseI have this main client that I
work with who is in New Zealand,and they start my start with
them is in the afternoon, and soI just I do a lot of my meeting
time with them.
(34:34):
In the afternoon I have otherclients, but it's they're the
ones that are like the bulk ofmy, of my work and so and then
now I do the take my time andlike it all kind of is happening
.
And so what I realized is thatuntil I could write it down and
like actually, even though itwas hard to do, like say this is
I actually could do this, thismight be possible, I couldn't
(34:57):
even put it into action.
So that was really good advicefrom my therapist.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Wow, yeah, really good.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's great.
I know we should all do that.
I'm thinking gosh, that's agreat exercise for the new year.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Slow coffee in the morning.
For sure man, Slow coffee inthe morning.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Slow coffee and then we'll compare notes.
Kim, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
I think it's a great exercisefor all of us to walk through
and thank your therapist as well.
Great advice.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Seriously so good.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, it has been a pleasure having you on.
Thank you for your book.
Thank you for the content thatyou've provided for our audience
.
We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Laura, and thank you for the support that you've
given to April and I throughoutour process of our forming to
where we are now.
You were, you've beeninvaluable in in supporting us
there, so we appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I love that and I love what you both are doing.
Thank you both for what you'redoing.
It's really, really importantand I think it's going to help
so many people.
So thank you, thanks for havingme.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, happy holiday and listeners until we meet
again.
Go find joy in the journey.
Bye, laura, take care.
Bye, laura, thank you.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
(36:24):
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
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