September 3, 2025 • 36 mins
Have you ever found yourself staring into the mirror wondering "Who am I now?" Michele Heffron, transformational life and divorce coach, joins us for a profound conversation about the identity shifts that occur during midlife transitions.
Michele shares how menopause often becomes a catalyst for deeper questioning about relationships, purpose, and fulfillment. "We get to this certain point in time and there's all these shifts taking place not only in our bodies but in who and how we're showing up in the world," she explains. This awakening frequently coincides with major life decisions around relationships, empty nesting, and career paths.
Fear emerges as the primary barrier preventing women from making necessary changes. Financial insecurity, loneliness, and social judgment create powerful resistance. Michele's perspective challenges conventional wisdom: "Life is not short, life is long, and if you are miserable or unhappy, it's a long time to be unhappy." This reframing gives women permission to prioritize their remaining years rather than endure continued dissatisfaction.
The path to rediscovery requires consistent, small efforts. Michele recommends starting with what you don't want, then inverting those points to clarify what you do want. Daily practices like journaling, meditation, and intentional stillness help women reconnect with their authentic selves after years of external focus. "If we don't start safeguarding our own time, we're going to fill it with things that are more important than ourselves—and what could be more important than ourselves?"
Living an aligned life means finding balance between different energies within yourself rather than swinging between compliance and defiance. This alignment allows women to make choices based on their own needs rather than constantly accommodating others' expectations. As Michele reminds us, "We have the right to be, do and have anything we want and desire."
Ready to stop arguing for your limitations? Listen now to gain practical wisdom for navigating midlife transitions with confidence and clarity. Subscribe to the MiDOViA Menopause Podcast for more conversations that help you reclaim your power during this transformative life stage.
Michèle Heffron is a ICF certified transformational life, relationship and divorce coach who supports individuals through some of life’s most defining moments. From navigating the complexities of divorce to rediscovering identity after long-term partnerships, empty nesting, or career shifts, Michèle offers compassionate, strategic guidance through every phase of relationship transition.
Website: www.micheleheffron.com
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MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
trusted source for informationabout menopause and midlife.
Join us each episode, as wehave great conversations with
great people.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
Quick pause here, because thismatters.
Medovia is proud to be thefirst and only organization in
(00:24):
the US offering amenopause-friendly membership
and accreditation for workplaces.
We're not a trend.
We are not check-the-boxbenefit.
We're a movement for lastingchange.
We're helping organizations ofall sizes shift culture, support
their people and retainexperienced talent.
(00:46):
Whether you're looking just toget started or ready to lead the
way, we've built a roadmaprooted in best practices from
hundreds of employers across theglobe.
If you want to learn more, headto menopausefriendlyuscom and
find out how to become aworkplace that doesn't just talk
the talk but walks it, becausemenopause is a workplace issue
(01:08):
and the best organizations knowit.
Hi everyone, welcome to theshow.
Today we have Michelle Heffronon.
She is an ICF certifiedtransformational life,
relationship and divorce coachwho helps individuals navigate
midlife transitions.
Michelle draws from her ownlived experience and decades of
(01:31):
leadership in the corporatenonprofit worlds as she guides
clients through divorce, emptynesting and reinvention to
discover their authentic selves.
We can't wait for thisconversation.
Welcome, michelle.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much, both of you.
It's such an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, we're excited.
We're looking forward to thisconversation.
I know we were on your podcastrecently and we just have more
and more and more to unpack, sothank you for spending the time
with us here today.
As you know, michelle, we workwith midlife women as well who
are navigating menopause, andthis time of life can be very,
(02:09):
very challenging.
Midlife brings a wave of change, with divorce, that empty
nesting that we're so familiarwith.
Career shifts, you name it.
Why do you think that so manyrelationship transitions
converge during this season oflife?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I was just actually thinking about this
within the last couple of days,and I think one of it is is that
we get to this certain point intime and maybe it is menopause,
maybe we don't even know.
That's what it is.
I think there's all theseshifts taking place not only in
our bodies but in just who andhow we're showing up in the
(02:56):
world, and I think why I wasthinking about this is because
it was about the time that Iprobably was going through
menopause and I probably didn'treally even understand.
It is when I made the big shiftand it was when I ended up
leaving my marriage and movingand it was a really scary time
for me.
But I really remember thinking,now that I'm looking back on it
(03:20):
, is that part of it is likewhat am I doing with my life,
kind of.
Is that part of it is like whatam I doing with my life?
And nothing seems to be fittingthe way I thought it was
supposed to be, and I think alot of the women I work with end
up going through this and itmight take years to sort of get
to that point where you're going.
Something's not fulfilling.
(03:41):
I'm not.
I'm feeling empty, I'm feelinginvisible, I don't feel like I'm
myself anymore, and I thinkwhen people are, and women are,
going through menopause, I thinkthere is a disconnect with
their partners a lot of timestoo, because they don't feel
seen or heard or understood, andI think so.
So much of it has, and youprobably see this so much.
(04:03):
But so much of this has to dowith not understanding what's
happening to them, you know, orfor them.
I don't know, that's.
I do think I see that a lot,and after you, after we had our
conversation a few weeks ago,and the more I think about
things, I think, gosh, there's alot more connectivity here than
(04:23):
I even realized just a fewweeks ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, okay.
So for our listeners thataren't familiar with your
podcast, can you tell them whereto find that replay, what's the
name of your podcast and howcan they find that if they want
to go back and listen?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the
podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the
podcast as well.
My podcast is called Getting tothe, just to track that history
and conversation that we havethere, because there is a lot of
dots that connect with women inmidlife and I imagine that
there are a lot of fears thatwomen bring to you as they're
(05:23):
considering divorce.
What are some of those commonfears that they express with you
as they're consideringseparation or divorce in midlife
?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, and fear is one of those things that we don't
even realize, but it plays intoso many parts of our lives.
But when I'm talking, inparticular with women, but when
I'm talking in particular withwomen, they're oh, it's the fear
of the unknown, it's the fearof I don't know if I'm going to
be able to survive on my own.
I'm the fear.
It's the fear of financialsecurity, it's the fear of
(06:00):
stigma around divorce.
It's the fear of being alone.
Even if they were alonesometimes in their marriage, in
so many ways at least they werewith somebody and they didn't
feel like they were on their ownall the time.
There is so much that surroundsthat fear factor that inhibits
(06:23):
us or keeps us stuck from goingto where we really want to go or
even exploring what our real,true needs are.
There's a fear of being able toshow up as who you are, because
then you might rock the boat oryou might not be liked, or you
know you might feel like it'smean, or there's any number of
(06:47):
reasons why that fear factorplays in.
But but the major ones are thefinancial piece of it, the
unknown, the what's going tohappen to me and if they have
kids at this during that timetoo, because some people do I
mean many people still have kids.
I work with a lot of women whodon't, but it's it's their adult
(07:10):
children.
How is that going to impactthem?
I mean, everybody worries,women in particular, I think,
worry about what everybody elseis going to think and feel,
rather than what it's going tomean to them.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I want to get back.
I want to get back to that, butfirst I really want to
understand what.
How do you differentiatebetween a life transition and a
true identity shift, like whatis happening, where you really
feel like now is the time tomake a change at midlife and and
this could be divorce, it couldbe job change, it could be
right, it could be a whole bunchof things but how do you
differentiate between you knowwhether this is just a phase
that I'm going through orwhether this is a true sort of
(07:54):
identity in a life transitionthat I really want to like, take
on?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, what a thoughtful question that is Kim.
Because a transition.
What a thoughtful question thatis, kim.
Because a transition.
Now that I've done this workfor so long, it almost requires
a transformation.
And what I mean by that isanytime we are continuing to do
(08:27):
the same thing as we have alwaysdone it, we're going to get
more of the same results In atransition.
Let's just say, for a career,for instance, you're losing an
identity, potentially, or adivorce, or you're losing
identity of being a wife and amother.
Whatever it is, there's alwaysa shift in the identity and it's
learning to become andunderstanding what your real
needs are.
So you can become, and that'swhere the transformation comes
(08:50):
into play.
In my mind, it's like we arealways in flux, we're always
changing and growing and we cantry to stop the tide from coming
in, but the fact is is thatit's going to still come in.
So, rather than fight it, it'sstarting to learn how to go with
the flow of things a little bit.
And transformation doesn'tnecessarily mean you're going to
(09:13):
just throw everything out andstart completely over.
Sometimes it just meansshifting things a bit.
So you're starting to seethings differently, and so our
entire life is hinges ontransitions in our lives, right,
and?
And so nothing ever stays thesame, even though we you know
(09:39):
you could have the same mealMondays for the rest of your
life, or whatever it is some ofthe monotonous kinds of things.
But the fact is we're alwaysaging, we're always changing and
growing.
In some way, we're always doingsomething that's shifting us
from one place to another.
So everything's a transition.
(09:59):
But when you're making thedecision about a transformation,
that starts looking at, well,what else is possible for you,
rather than I'm going to stay inthis box over here, but I want
something to change in my life.
So I don't know if I'veanswered that well, but
(10:20):
oftentimes I see and I've donethis myself Everything I do is
lived experience, with a lot oftraining to back it up, but I've
tried to stay the same and tryto keep the things that I don't
want to let go of because I'mafraid to, but I want something
to change.
Impossible to do that, becauseif you're not willing to sort of
(10:45):
see things differently and moveforward and understand what
your real needs are and startgetting comfortable with, maybe,
the uncomfortability of I'm notsure if that was a word or not,
but then comfortable enough.
Whatever is that?
If you're not willing to get alittle uncomfortable with change
, then it's going to be realhard for you to really kind of
(11:07):
step into what you really wantin your life.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, and I think that we're taught to make a plan
and follow it Right, and soyou've got to follow through and
that's.
You made a commitment andhere's all the things you are.
Are you seeing a differentperspective on women's sort of
point of view, on following whatthey want or thinking outside
(11:31):
the box post-COVID?
Did COVID teach us anythingabout that?
Life is short and we shouldreally think about how we want
to spend the rest of our life.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think COVID did accelerate that a little bit.
I think there's a whole shiftthat I'm seeing anyway in sort
of this whole idea behindpurpose and you know what we
want in the world or what wewant out of life, and I look at
this life as short, from alittle different perspective.
(12:05):
One time and I'll just share alittle story because this
happened to me when I was thiswas years ago and it was when I
was getting I was getting ahaircut and I didn't share very
much about what was going on inmy personal life.
And it was right about the time.
I was in my late forties and Iknew that something wasn't going
(12:28):
well in my marriage.
And I remember saying somethingto my hairdresser she was so
cute with the spiky hair and allthis and she said I said
something about well, I guessthat's all, it's all fine,
because you know life is short.
And she wheeled me around inthat chair and her little barber
chair thing or whatever youknow, her hairdresser chair and
(12:50):
she wagged her little comb at melike this and she said life is
not short, life is long and ifyou are miserable or unhappy,
it's a long ass time to bemiserable and unhappy.
So you know what you get todecide now if you want to change
that or if you want more ofthat same miserable life.
(13:10):
And I went wow, yeah, that wasa big wow and I didn't know what
to do with that at the time.
I really didn't.
But I will tell you, it playsinto so much of the work I do
now because there's a lot ofpeople who just want to wait.
I'm going to wait, I'm justgoing to wait.
It's like what are you waitingfor?
(13:32):
You know what?
If you have five more yearsleft in you, why wait?
Why not do something and have areally, really hellacious time
with what you've got left?
And if you, you know whateverage?
And so that's why now I look atthese things as, like you know,
covid did accelerate that a lot.
(13:55):
It certainly did for me.
It slowed things down in a waythat I needed.
I don't know about you two, butI really needed some of that
downtime.
And there are days when I goback and I wish gosh, I wish it
was that slow for just a week,or you know, just because there
was time to make dinner together, there was time to go for walks
(14:18):
, there was time to just be, andI think for a lot of people
that was a major shift.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you know what you're talking about and
speaking to is mindset.
I think, yeah, it's shiftingour mindset and how we think
about transitions.
You know midlife divorce andyou described divorce not as an
ending but a chance forreinvention, and I'm wondering
(14:49):
what are some ways that midlifedivorcees can reframe that story
.
Midlife divorcees, rather, canreframe that story that they're
telling themselves.
So, as you work with women, howdo you help them change that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Oh that you know that mindset change is a big one and
it takes small little steps andbaby baby steps to do it, but
it's starting to learn a one ofthe things you said about.
You know that redirect isunderstanding and getting very
comfortable with the fact thatas women, as human beings, we
(15:28):
have the right to change ourmind.
So the way we thought thingswere supposed to go was maybe
what it was supposed to do forthe time it did, but now you get
to choose something different.
We always have these choices,so it's learning how to open up
to choice and understanding whatyou want.
(15:49):
So I love working with women inmidlife going through this,
because they'll they start torediscover who they were,
because some of you in theirearly 20s and you don't really
even know who you are yet andyou forget all the things that
you really love to do because,for whatever reason, most of the
(16:10):
time we gave it up ourselves,but then we said it was somebody
else's doing and we um, webecame invisible in our own you
know places and when peoplestart to open up to see what
else is possible and they startto welcome in some different and
new ideas about things and somepeople move through that faster
(16:33):
than others.
Some of us who have beeningrained with indoctrinated
belief systems through religiousorganizations or society, we
don't always really know whatwe're allowed to do, and it's
about giving ourselvespermission to start exploring
and seeing what else is outthere.
So that mindset shift is the bigthing and in fact I don't know
(16:57):
if I told you this before butlike, one of the books I have
many of my clients read is by DrCarol Druck and it's called
Mindset and it's a beautifulbook because it really
illustrates so well the way wehave been conditioned to believe
.
And I have to say when I wasreading the book, the last time
I thought I was, I thought I hada pretty, you know, growth
(17:18):
mindset, kind of a but boy.
I sure found a lot of areasthat I didn't, and it's always a
good reminder to kind of seewhat else is possible when you
let go of some of your oldbeliefs.
And so so much of the work isaround identifying patterns and
old beliefs and learning how tomove through those comfortably
(17:40):
and let them go, and there's alot of, you know, identifying
and then releasing things thatno longer fit.
So I'm big on declutteringspace, but decluttering what's
in your head too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's a good book to read another time and then maybe
another time after that,because there's so many things
that some books are meant to beread.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But so someone who's trying to reinvent their life
and trying to rebuild theirconfidence and their sense of
self?
You know you mentioned, youhave them read mindset, but how,
how else do you guide them tobe able to figure out what they
want?
Because we we've seen that whenwe ask women at this stage of
(18:23):
life, what is it that you want,no one's really asked them that
and they haven't considered it.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
But so how do you figure out what you want?
And then how do you helpyourself rebuild once you figure
out what that is?
Because you got down reallywell, the whole, like you know,
deal you had before and that andI'm talking about, even if you
want to stay married and butjust want to right, you just
(18:51):
want to have a different planfor the next phase of your life.
How do we go about that?
How do we go about figuring outwhat we want?
And then, once we do, how do webuild the confidence and the
energy and the sort ofself-actualization to go figure
out how to make that happen?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
We do that.
So first I want to say that I'mnot an advocate for everybody
going through divorce.
I don't.
I mean, I really think there'sa lot of repair work that can be
done when we start tounderstand one another and
understand each other's needs.
So I just wanted to make surethat I put that out there,
because I'm not necessarilyadvocating for every.
I'm a woman of.
(19:31):
I love love.
I mean, love is a big piece andI want people to learn how to
love better and they.
Most of it is starting withloving yourself, and most of us
aren't taught how to loveourselves.
When it gets down to the, youknow what is your, what are your
desires, what do you reallywant?
You're right, I think it'sabout I don't know what it's
like.
95% of us don't know what wewant all the time.
(19:52):
So we start oftentimes byinforming what we want, by
understanding what we don't want, because most people will tell
me they can give me a list ofall the things they don't want
and it's like a list a mile long.
I'm like, okay, let's startwith that, let's change these
(20:12):
things around.
Then, If you want, let's justsay in a marriage, what you
don't want is you don't want tofeel invisible.
Okay, well, if you turn thataround, what is it that you want
?
I want to be seen, I want to beheard, I want to be understood,
(20:38):
and we don't look always atwhat is what is the?
What does it look like,specifically as what does it
feel like when you are in aplace of what you want?
So it's starting out slow andunderstanding that you have to
spend more time visualizing whatyou want in your life and most
of it comes down to how is itmaking you feel?
(21:00):
Because it's an embodiedexperience and most people it
takes some work, I have to say,because we have to spend a lot
of time getting out of our heads, dropping into our hearts and
our bodies and understanding howit's feeling when we're in a
space of being able to grow andlearn and open up to what we do
(21:21):
want and allowing ourselves todo that.
I work, I do a lot of journaling, prompts and things like that
for people to start getting thisstuff up and out, and I get a
lot of resistance from it, youknow, because I think that is
why.
Why?
Because we?
It's like everything else Ifyou're going to get good at
(21:45):
something, you have to practiceit.
It has to become daily.
It's like I tell people I lovewhen I talk to people and I go
yeah, I know that I go.
How's that working out in yourlife then?
What are you doing If you knowthat that needs to be done and
how's that working for you?
Well, I don't actually do it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I know I should do it , but I'm not doing it, right
yeah, yoga practice.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You don't go to yoga one day and get real good at it.
You actually have to work atthis stuff.
So I'll never forget when Ifirst started meditating, I have
to say it was like pullingteeth out of me and I would set
a little timer and I would sitthere in the dark and I would
like, oh, really help me.
And so I get it.
(22:29):
But if we don't startsafeguarding our own time in the
morning or whenever we want todo our work on ourselves, then
we're going to fill it in with abunch of stuff that is more
important than ourselves andwhat could be more important
than ourselves?
So it starts that small.
(22:52):
It's like there's not a list offive things you can do and all
of a sudden, boom, you're goingto know what you want.
It's a slow, gradual getting toknow who you are and listening.
So one of the terms I use a lotis be still.
I like to be still.
I can't do that, I'm ADHD, I'mthis and that, and it's like,
(23:15):
okay, well, look, just likeeverything else.
You know, if you had to sit,and you know, in a bathtub for
two and a half minutes, couldyou do that?
I mean, that's how small it hasto start sometimes is really
getting people into the habit.
But they have to be willing towant to make the shift and the
(23:35):
change in their lives too.
And if you're not willing, ifit's not worth it to you, then
you get more of the same.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, I'm hearing baby steps, which is good.
Just take the step right.
It doesn't matter how big orhow small, but just take the
step, be still, be quiet so thatyou can feel and we don't
acknowledge how we feel if we'reconstantly moving and
constantly thinking.
(24:04):
So that's what I'm hearing fromyou, michelle, and, just for
listeners, that that that'spretty easy Not easy to do in
practice, but it's easy toremember.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, but feeling the feelings.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And feeling the feelings can be scary too.
Right, you're asking me to feel, and I may have stuffed some of
this for a very long time andnow I have to feel it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And that I think that's one of the biggest pieces
of it is is understanding thatfeelings are meant to be felt
that's why they're calledfeelings and understanding that
the emotions that kind of getconnected to feelings sometimes
are the meaning we're makingfrom things.
(24:50):
And it's starting to getcurious about why am I feeling
this way.
And it's really taking and likeyou said, it's baby steps.
It's taking a deeper dive onwhy am I feeling this way.
It's getting curious about it.
Getting curious, yeah, beingcurious about curious, yeah.
And when you can factor in thatcuriosity and start asking
(25:10):
yourself, without trying to comeup with the answer, letting
that come to you, that's howslow we have to make it.
We have to slow it way down soyou can actually change the
frame.
You know it's like watching afilm frame by frame by frame,
but if you start to put adifferent frame for the picture,
it's going to start changingwhat happens, um, you know, and
(25:32):
what is getting projected, andfeelings can't really hurt you
right, you know I feel like theycan when you're feeling them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, and there's so much data on the fact that if
you just sit with the feeling,it will pass.
Yes, and I've seen that happen.
In the first few times thatthat happened to me, I was like,
oh wow, that was arollercoaster ride, right.
I'm like deep in this feelingand I'm just okay, let me just
feel this, because this reallysucks.
(26:03):
And then I'm like, okay, I'mokay, it's not that bad yeah, we
anticipate the pain, um, andit's usually what.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What do they say?
Reality is usually kinder thanour thoughts about it.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
The anticipation of something happening is is always
worse than it actuallyhappening.
Like you will live through it.
You talk about alignment asbeing really important to live
an aligned life.
What does that mean and how doyou do that?
After a big change, whetherit's a relationship shift, a job
(26:47):
shift, your kids leaving, howdo you live an aligned life?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Alignment has become my place now, rather than people
often think they're brokenafter something.
They're broken after arelationship change, they're
broken after their kids leavehome, but it's actually not
broken, it's coming back intowho you are.
So I look at balance in termsof sort of feminine and
(27:25):
masculine energies in a way, andif one is pulling us too far
over to one side, we're out ofalignment with ourselves, and so
then that's where fear startsto come in and there's like this
defiant part of us and thenthere's this compliant part of
us.
So we even shift between thosethings sometimes.
So if you think about whenyou're being compliant, those
(27:45):
things sometimes.
So if you think about whenyou're being compliant, you know
it's.
It's wearing your hair acertain way.
This is a silly example,because your husband wants you
to and not doing it the way youwant to, but if you're in
defiance, you're going to screwhim.
I'm going to shave it all offtoday and do whatever the hell I
want, but neither one of themare in alliance with who you are
(28:06):
.
You know your true self wouldjust say you know what?
Here's what I really.
This is me.
You can take me as I am kind ofa person or you can not like me
, but I can't be impacted bywhether or not you accept me,
because I have to accept me.
I'm the most important personhere.
So helping people get intoalliance or alignment with
(28:27):
themselves is getting more andmore true to who they truly are.
And that takes some time andeffort, because we have become
who we identify with in thatrelationship or in that
particular situation and we haveto learn how we're going to be
(28:52):
safe and okay on our own becausewe know what's true to us.
So happiness is part of that isbeing in alignment with your
own self, because the idea is isthat it shouldn't take somebody
else to make you happy.
Your happiness comes fromwithin.
And learning that is a verychallenging thing when we've
(29:16):
always been looking to theoutside for our kids to make us
happy or our spouse to make ushappy or whoever else, and so um
, and that's why you youprobably know I mean this work,
I mean we fill in voids wherewe're unhappy with other things
that come in, and you know itcomes in, and it's also a way to
(29:36):
mask or cover up feelings.
It's like, you know, drinking orovereating or whatever the
different vices.
We do these things so we don'thave to feel.
And when we're doing that we'rekind of glazing over what's
really going on and it's gettingkind of more true to our own
selves.
(29:56):
And that's what I mean inalignment is balancing out that
defiant and compliant piece ofus, letting go of the fear so we
can come back into our own selfand be completely at peace with
who we are and not alwaystrying to figure out what
everybody else needs from us, sowe can be who they need us to
(30:22):
be but not who we need us to be.
So there's always a cost, youknow, in all, for all this,
because you have to be willingto be uncomfortable with that,
you have to be unwilling tosometimes disappoint other
people, but yeah as women moms,caretakers
Speaker 3 (30:44):
that's the last thing we want to do.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, and constantly justifying why we're doing it
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, that alignment piece, though it makes me think
of we're on one side or theother, right Masculine feminine,
rather than coming to thecenter.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, because there's a balance.
It it's not a gender thing,it's a energetic thing, it's
it's we.
We all have both in us, rightas it's meant to be.
And sometimes, when we'reexercising more of the feminine
side that's when the creativepieces come out More masculine
side, we're getting stuff done.
I mean, there's those kinds ofthings, and so when you can
(31:32):
balance those things out, it's abeautiful alignment with who
you are meant to be.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Right, we're much happier.
Yes, because we're aligned.
I'm wondering, as we wrap uphere, if you can give our
listeners one piece of advicefor anybody that might be
standing here at the crossroadsof divorce, empty nesting,
reinvention.
What would that one piece ofadvice be if I'm here at this
(31:59):
crossroad?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
give yourself permission to see things
differently and to stop arguingfor your limitations and
understanding that the fears anddoubts aren't really facts.
They're just echoes of yourpast trying to take you off
(32:29):
course, and all those fears haveno right to design your life.
Only you know what's the bestfor you and it's so really not
taking a poll of what everybodyelse thinks you should do is
really spending some time withyou and understanding what it is
that you need in your life.
I love that.
(32:50):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah, I realized that when I my intuition speaks for
me there, I don't need anybody'sopinion about it, it just is
that right.
And so when you're still andyou can listen, you know I don't
need to go.
You know, do a socialexperiment of asking everybody
what they think about it.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
A survey, let's say yeah, what do you think about it
?
No, we're true to our hearts.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, michelle, this is such a great conversation and
we could go on for a long time.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Thank you, yes, so my website is michelleheffroncom.
Thank you, yes, so my websiteis michelleheffroncom.
I'm on the socials on LinkedIn,instagram and Facebook.
I have my podcast Getting tothe Heart and gosh what else.
And I do have.
I'm launching a book club.
I don't know when this is goingto air, but the first book
(33:44):
we're reading for my book clubis Untamed and I think it's a
good book, best one Spot on forthis conversation.
We're happy that's a book I'veread over and over again.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
It's another one to keep on the shelf, right, don't
get the Kindle copy.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
We need a hard copy of that book.
I have it in hard copy, kindleand audio book.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
I do, and I'm taking it this weekend.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Oh, good, good, you have a nice good book we're
recording over Labor Day weekend, so nice reading time Before we
let you go.
Michelle, though, we ask everyguest what the best piece of
advice you've ever received orgiven has been.
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Best piece of advice?
Gosh, I've gotten so muchadvice over the years.
I think the best piece ofadvice is one I got from my
coach, and several years ago,and it is as women, as humans,
(34:48):
we have the right to be, do andhave anything we want and desire
, and that doesn't mean in agreedy way, it just means that
we don't turn ourselves insideout to please other people.
We actually can have it and wedeserve it, and I think that's
(35:11):
the one thing that people misssometimes is that we deserve to
have love in our lives.
We deserve to have peoplesurround us who care and are
kind and compassionate, and wedeserve abundance and all kinds
of goodness.
And when you understand thatyou are deserving of these
(35:33):
things as hard as that can be ifyou've been conditioned
differently that opens up somany more doors and possibility.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
It's a great reminder .
It's a good reminder.
It's hard to, it's hard tobelieve that sometimes, but it's
good to try on every once in awhile.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
It is.
Yeah, Put that jacket on everyday.
You are deserving and you areenough.
Exactly.
Thank you for that, Michelle,and thank you so much for being
on the show.
I'm sure that our paths willcross again and for listeners
until we meet again, go find joyin the journey.
I'm sure that our paths willcross again.
And for listeners until we meetagain, go find joy in the
journey.
Take care now.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
(36:16):
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subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
episode with a friend.
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Learn more at Medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
trusted source for informationabout menopause and midlife.
Join us each episode, as wehave great conversations with
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Tune in and enjoy the show.
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(00:24):
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(01:08):
and the best organizations knowit.
Hi everyone, welcome to theshow.
Today we have Michelle Heffronon.
She is an ICF certifiedtransformational life,
relationship and divorce coachwho helps individuals navigate
midlife transitions.
Michelle draws from her ownlived experience and decades of
(01:31):
leadership in the corporatenonprofit worlds as she guides
clients through divorce, emptynesting and reinvention to
discover their authentic selves.
We can't wait for thisconversation.
Welcome, michelle.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Thank you so much, both of you.
It's such an honor to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, we're excited.
We're looking forward to thisconversation.
I know we were on your podcastrecently and we just have more
and more and more to unpack, sothank you for spending the time
with us here today.
As you know, michelle, we workwith midlife women as well who
are navigating menopause, andthis time of life can be very,
(02:09):
very challenging.
Midlife brings a wave of change, with divorce, that empty
nesting that we're so familiarwith.
Career shifts, you name it.
Why do you think that so manyrelationship transitions
converge during this season oflife?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I was just actually thinking about this
within the last couple of days,and I think one of it is is that
we get to this certain point intime and maybe it is menopause,
maybe we don't even know.
That's what it is.
I think there's all theseshifts taking place not only in
our bodies but in just who andhow we're showing up in the
(02:56):
world, and I think why I wasthinking about this is because
it was about the time that Iprobably was going through
menopause and I probably didn'treally even understand.
It is when I made the big shiftand it was when I ended up
leaving my marriage and movingand it was a really scary time
for me.
But I really remember thinking,now that I'm looking back on it
(03:20):
, is that part of it is likewhat am I doing with my life,
kind of.
Is that part of it is like whatam I doing with my life?
And nothing seems to be fittingthe way I thought it was
supposed to be, and I think alot of the women I work with end
up going through this and itmight take years to sort of get
to that point where you're going.
Something's not fulfilling.
(03:41):
I'm not.
I'm feeling empty, I'm feelinginvisible, I don't feel like I'm
myself anymore, and I thinkwhen people are, and women are,
going through menopause, I thinkthere is a disconnect with
their partners a lot of timestoo, because they don't feel
seen or heard or understood, andI think so.
So much of it has, and youprobably see this so much.
(04:03):
But so much of this has to dowith not understanding what's
happening to them, you know, orfor them.
I don't know, that's.
I do think I see that a lot,and after you, after we had our
conversation a few weeks ago,and the more I think about
things, I think, gosh, there's alot more connectivity here than
(04:23):
I even realized just a fewweeks ago.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, okay.
So for our listeners thataren't familiar with your
podcast, can you tell them whereto find that replay, what's the
name of your podcast and howcan they find that if they want
to go back and listen?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the
podcast as well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Oh, my goodness, and I will send you that link to the
podcast as well.
My podcast is called Getting tothe, just to track that history
and conversation that we havethere, because there is a lot of
dots that connect with women inmidlife and I imagine that
there are a lot of fears thatwomen bring to you as they're
(05:23):
considering divorce.
What are some of those commonfears that they express with you
as they're consideringseparation or divorce in midlife
?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, and fear is one of those things that we don't
even realize, but it plays intoso many parts of our lives.
But when I'm talking, inparticular with women, but when
I'm talking in particular withwomen, they're oh, it's the fear
of the unknown, it's the fearof I don't know if I'm going to
be able to survive on my own.
I'm the fear.
It's the fear of financialsecurity, it's the fear of
(06:00):
stigma around divorce.
It's the fear of being alone.
Even if they were alonesometimes in their marriage, in
so many ways at least they werewith somebody and they didn't
feel like they were on their ownall the time.
There is so much that surroundsthat fear factor that inhibits
(06:23):
us or keeps us stuck from goingto where we really want to go or
even exploring what our real,true needs are.
There's a fear of being able toshow up as who you are, because
then you might rock the boat oryou might not be liked, or you
know you might feel like it'smean, or there's any number of
(06:47):
reasons why that fear factorplays in.
But but the major ones are thefinancial piece of it, the
unknown, the what's going tohappen to me and if they have
kids at this during that timetoo, because some people do I
mean many people still have kids.
I work with a lot of women whodon't, but it's it's their adult
(07:10):
children.
How is that going to impactthem?
I mean, everybody worries,women in particular, I think,
worry about what everybody elseis going to think and feel,
rather than what it's going tomean to them.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, yeah, and I want to get back.
I want to get back to that, butfirst I really want to
understand what.
How do you differentiatebetween a life transition and a
true identity shift, like whatis happening, where you really
feel like now is the time tomake a change at midlife and and
this could be divorce, it couldbe job change, it could be
right, it could be a whole bunchof things but how do you
differentiate between you knowwhether this is just a phase
that I'm going through orwhether this is a true sort of
(07:54):
identity in a life transitionthat I really want to like, take
on?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, what a thoughtful question that is Kim.
Because a transition.
What a thoughtful question thatis, kim.
Because a transition.
Now that I've done this workfor so long, it almost requires
a transformation.
And what I mean by that isanytime we are continuing to do
(08:27):
the same thing as we have alwaysdone it, we're going to get
more of the same results In atransition.
Let's just say, for a career,for instance, you're losing an
identity, potentially, or adivorce, or you're losing
identity of being a wife and amother.
Whatever it is, there's alwaysa shift in the identity and it's
learning to become andunderstanding what your real
needs are.
So you can become, and that'swhere the transformation comes
(08:50):
into play.
In my mind, it's like we arealways in flux, we're always
changing and growing and we cantry to stop the tide from coming
in, but the fact is is thatit's going to still come in.
So, rather than fight it, it'sstarting to learn how to go with
the flow of things a little bit.
And transformation doesn'tnecessarily mean you're going to
(09:13):
just throw everything out andstart completely over.
Sometimes it just meansshifting things a bit.
So you're starting to seethings differently, and so our
entire life is hinges ontransitions in our lives, right,
and?
And so nothing ever stays thesame, even though we you know
(09:39):
you could have the same mealMondays for the rest of your
life, or whatever it is some ofthe monotonous kinds of things.
But the fact is we're alwaysaging, we're always changing and
growing.
In some way, we're always doingsomething that's shifting us
from one place to another.
So everything's a transition.
(09:59):
But when you're making thedecision about a transformation,
that starts looking at, well,what else is possible for you,
rather than I'm going to stay inthis box over here, but I want
something to change in my life.
So I don't know if I'veanswered that well, but
(10:20):
oftentimes I see and I've donethis myself Everything I do is
lived experience, with a lot oftraining to back it up, but I've
tried to stay the same and tryto keep the things that I don't
want to let go of because I'mafraid to, but I want something
to change.
Impossible to do that, becauseif you're not willing to sort of
(10:45):
see things differently and moveforward and understand what
your real needs are and startgetting comfortable with, maybe,
the uncomfortability of I'm notsure if that was a word or not,
but then comfortable enough.
Whatever is that?
If you're not willing to get alittle uncomfortable with change
, then it's going to be realhard for you to really kind of
(11:07):
step into what you really wantin your life.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, and I think that we're taught to make a plan
and follow it Right, and soyou've got to follow through and
that's.
You made a commitment andhere's all the things you are.
Are you seeing a differentperspective on women's sort of
point of view, on following whatthey want or thinking outside
(11:31):
the box post-COVID?
Did COVID teach us anythingabout that?
Life is short and we shouldreally think about how we want
to spend the rest of our life.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I think COVID did accelerate that a little bit.
I think there's a whole shiftthat I'm seeing anyway in sort
of this whole idea behindpurpose and you know what we
want in the world or what wewant out of life, and I look at
this life as short, from alittle different perspective.
(12:05):
One time and I'll just share alittle story because this
happened to me when I was thiswas years ago and it was when I
was getting I was getting ahaircut and I didn't share very
much about what was going on inmy personal life.
And it was right about the time.
I was in my late forties and Iknew that something wasn't going
(12:28):
well in my marriage.
And I remember saying somethingto my hairdresser she was so
cute with the spiky hair and allthis and she said I said
something about well, I guessthat's all, it's all fine,
because you know life is short.
And she wheeled me around inthat chair and her little barber
chair thing or whatever youknow, her hairdresser chair and
(12:50):
she wagged her little comb at melike this and she said life is
not short, life is long and ifyou are miserable or unhappy,
it's a long ass time to bemiserable and unhappy.
So you know what you get todecide now if you want to change
that or if you want more ofthat same miserable life.
(13:10):
And I went wow, yeah, that wasa big wow and I didn't know what
to do with that at the time.
I really didn't.
But I will tell you, it playsinto so much of the work I do
now because there's a lot ofpeople who just want to wait.
I'm going to wait, I'm justgoing to wait.
It's like what are you waitingfor?
(13:32):
You know what?
If you have five more yearsleft in you, why wait?
Why not do something and have areally, really hellacious time
with what you've got left?
And if you, you know whateverage?
And so that's why now I look atthese things as, like you know,
covid did accelerate that a lot.
(13:55):
It certainly did for me.
It slowed things down in a waythat I needed.
I don't know about you two, butI really needed some of that
downtime.
And there are days when I goback and I wish gosh, I wish it
was that slow for just a week,or you know, just because there
was time to make dinner together, there was time to go for walks
(14:18):
, there was time to just be, andI think for a lot of people
that was a major shift.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you know what you're talking about and
speaking to is mindset.
I think, yeah, it's shiftingour mindset and how we think
about transitions.
You know midlife divorce andyou described divorce not as an
ending but a chance forreinvention, and I'm wondering
(14:49):
what are some ways that midlifedivorcees can reframe that story
.
Midlife divorcees, rather, canreframe that story that they're
telling themselves.
So, as you work with women, howdo you help them change that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Oh that you know that mindset change is a big one and
it takes small little steps andbaby baby steps to do it, but
it's starting to learn a one ofthe things you said about.
You know that redirect isunderstanding and getting very
comfortable with the fact thatas women, as human beings, we
(15:28):
have the right to change ourmind.
So the way we thought thingswere supposed to go was maybe
what it was supposed to do forthe time it did, but now you get
to choose something different.
We always have these choices,so it's learning how to open up
to choice and understanding whatyou want.
(15:49):
So I love working with women inmidlife going through this,
because they'll they start torediscover who they were,
because some of you in theirearly 20s and you don't really
even know who you are yet andyou forget all the things that
you really love to do because,for whatever reason, most of the
(16:10):
time we gave it up ourselves,but then we said it was somebody
else's doing and we um, webecame invisible in our own you
know places and when peoplestart to open up to see what
else is possible and they startto welcome in some different and
new ideas about things and somepeople move through that faster
(16:33):
than others.
Some of us who have beeningrained with indoctrinated
belief systems through religiousorganizations or society, we
don't always really know whatwe're allowed to do, and it's
about giving ourselvespermission to start exploring
and seeing what else is outthere.
So that mindset shift is the bigthing and in fact I don't know
(16:57):
if I told you this before butlike, one of the books I have
many of my clients read is by DrCarol Druck and it's called
Mindset and it's a beautifulbook because it really
illustrates so well the way wehave been conditioned to believe
.
And I have to say when I wasreading the book, the last time
I thought I was, I thought I hada pretty, you know, growth
(17:18):
mindset, kind of a but boy.
I sure found a lot of areasthat I didn't, and it's always a
good reminder to kind of seewhat else is possible when you
let go of some of your oldbeliefs.
And so so much of the work isaround identifying patterns and
old beliefs and learning how tomove through those comfortably
(17:40):
and let them go, and there's alot of, you know, identifying
and then releasing things thatno longer fit.
So I'm big on declutteringspace, but decluttering what's
in your head too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
It's a good book to read another time and then maybe
another time after that,because there's so many things
that some books are meant to beread.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But so someone who's trying to reinvent their life
and trying to rebuild theirconfidence and their sense of
self?
You know you mentioned, youhave them read mindset, but how,
how else do you guide them tobe able to figure out what they
want?
Because we we've seen that whenwe ask women at this stage of
(18:23):
life, what is it that you want,no one's really asked them that
and they haven't considered it.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
But so how do you figure out what you want?
And then how do you helpyourself rebuild once you figure
out what that is?
Because you got down reallywell, the whole, like you know,
deal you had before and that andI'm talking about, even if you
want to stay married and butjust want to right, you just
(18:51):
want to have a different planfor the next phase of your life.
How do we go about that?
How do we go about figuring outwhat we want?
And then, once we do, how do webuild the confidence and the
energy and the sort ofself-actualization to go figure
out how to make that happen?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
We do that.
So first I want to say that I'mnot an advocate for everybody
going through divorce.
I don't.
I mean, I really think there'sa lot of repair work that can be
done when we start tounderstand one another and
understand each other's needs.
So I just wanted to make surethat I put that out there,
because I'm not necessarilyadvocating for every.
I'm a woman of.
(19:31):
I love love.
I mean, love is a big piece andI want people to learn how to
love better and they.
Most of it is starting withloving yourself, and most of us
aren't taught how to loveourselves.
When it gets down to the, youknow what is your, what are your
desires, what do you reallywant?
You're right, I think it'sabout I don't know what it's
like.
95% of us don't know what wewant all the time.
(19:52):
So we start oftentimes byinforming what we want, by
understanding what we don't want, because most people will tell
me they can give me a list ofall the things they don't want
and it's like a list a mile long.
I'm like, okay, let's startwith that, let's change these
(20:12):
things around.
Then, If you want, let's justsay in a marriage, what you
don't want is you don't want tofeel invisible.
Okay, well, if you turn thataround, what is it that you want
?
I want to be seen, I want to beheard, I want to be understood,
(20:38):
and we don't look always atwhat is what is the?
What does it look like,specifically as what does it
feel like when you are in aplace of what you want?
So it's starting out slow andunderstanding that you have to
spend more time visualizing whatyou want in your life and most
of it comes down to how is itmaking you feel?
(21:00):
Because it's an embodiedexperience and most people it
takes some work, I have to say,because we have to spend a lot
of time getting out of our heads, dropping into our hearts and
our bodies and understanding howit's feeling when we're in a
space of being able to grow andlearn and open up to what we do
(21:21):
want and allowing ourselves todo that.
I work, I do a lot of journaling, prompts and things like that
for people to start getting thisstuff up and out, and I get a
lot of resistance from it, youknow, because I think that is
why.
Why?
Because we?
It's like everything else Ifyou're going to get good at
(21:45):
something, you have to practiceit.
It has to become daily.
It's like I tell people I lovewhen I talk to people and I go
yeah, I know that I go.
How's that working out in yourlife then?
What are you doing If you knowthat that needs to be done and
how's that working for you?
Well, I don't actually do it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I know I should do it , but I'm not doing it, right
yeah, yoga practice.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You don't go to yoga one day and get real good at it.
You actually have to work atthis stuff.
So I'll never forget when Ifirst started meditating, I have
to say it was like pullingteeth out of me and I would set
a little timer and I would sitthere in the dark and I would
like, oh, really help me.
And so I get it.
(22:29):
But if we don't startsafeguarding our own time in the
morning or whenever we want todo our work on ourselves, then
we're going to fill it in with abunch of stuff that is more
important than ourselves andwhat could be more important
than ourselves?
So it starts that small.
(22:52):
It's like there's not a list offive things you can do and all
of a sudden, boom, you're goingto know what you want.
It's a slow, gradual getting toknow who you are and listening.
So one of the terms I use a lotis be still.
I like to be still.
I can't do that, I'm ADHD, I'mthis and that, and it's like,
(23:15):
okay, well, look, just likeeverything else.
You know, if you had to sit,and you know, in a bathtub for
two and a half minutes, couldyou do that?
I mean, that's how small it hasto start sometimes is really
getting people into the habit.
But they have to be willing towant to make the shift and the
(23:35):
change in their lives too.
And if you're not willing, ifit's not worth it to you, then
you get more of the same.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, I'm hearing baby steps, which is good.
Just take the step right.
It doesn't matter how big orhow small, but just take the
step, be still, be quiet so thatyou can feel and we don't
acknowledge how we feel if we'reconstantly moving and
constantly thinking.
(24:04):
So that's what I'm hearing fromyou, michelle, and, just for
listeners, that that that'spretty easy Not easy to do in
practice, but it's easy toremember.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Yeah, but feeling the feelings.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And feeling the feelings can be scary too.
Right, you're asking me to feel, and I may have stuffed some of
this for a very long time andnow I have to feel it.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And that I think that's one of the biggest pieces
of it is is understanding thatfeelings are meant to be felt
that's why they're calledfeelings and understanding that
the emotions that kind of getconnected to feelings sometimes
are the meaning we're makingfrom things.
(24:50):
And it's starting to getcurious about why am I feeling
this way.
And it's really taking and likeyou said, it's baby steps.
It's taking a deeper dive onwhy am I feeling this way.
It's getting curious about it.
Getting curious, yeah, beingcurious about curious, yeah.
And when you can factor in thatcuriosity and start asking
(25:10):
yourself, without trying to comeup with the answer, letting
that come to you, that's howslow we have to make it.
We have to slow it way down soyou can actually change the
frame.
You know it's like watching afilm frame by frame by frame,
but if you start to put adifferent frame for the picture,
it's going to start changingwhat happens, um, you know, and
(25:32):
what is getting projected, andfeelings can't really hurt you
right, you know I feel like theycan when you're feeling them.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, and there's so much data on the fact that if
you just sit with the feeling,it will pass.
Yes, and I've seen that happen.
In the first few times thatthat happened to me, I was like,
oh wow, that was arollercoaster ride, right.
I'm like deep in this feelingand I'm just okay, let me just
feel this, because this reallysucks.
(26:03):
And then I'm like, okay, I'mokay, it's not that bad yeah, we
anticipate the pain, um, andit's usually what.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What do they say?
Reality is usually kinder thanour thoughts about it.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
The anticipation of something happening is is always
worse than it actuallyhappening.
Like you will live through it.
You talk about alignment asbeing really important to live
an aligned life.
What does that mean and how doyou do that?
After a big change, whetherit's a relationship shift, a job
(26:47):
shift, your kids leaving, howdo you live an aligned life?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Alignment has become my place now, rather than people
often think they're brokenafter something.
They're broken after arelationship change, they're
broken after their kids leavehome, but it's actually not
broken, it's coming back intowho you are.
So I look at balance in termsof sort of feminine and
(27:25):
masculine energies in a way, andif one is pulling us too far
over to one side, we're out ofalignment with ourselves, and so
then that's where fear startsto come in and there's like this
defiant part of us and thenthere's this compliant part of
us.
So we even shift between thosethings sometimes.
So if you think about whenyou're being compliant, those
(27:45):
things sometimes.
So if you think about whenyou're being compliant, you know
it's.
It's wearing your hair acertain way.
This is a silly example,because your husband wants you
to and not doing it the way youwant to, but if you're in
defiance, you're going to screwhim.
I'm going to shave it all offtoday and do whatever the hell I
want, but neither one of themare in alliance with who you are
(28:06):
.
You know your true self wouldjust say you know what?
Here's what I really.
This is me.
You can take me as I am kind ofa person or you can not like me
, but I can't be impacted bywhether or not you accept me,
because I have to accept me.
I'm the most important personhere.
So helping people get intoalliance or alignment with
(28:27):
themselves is getting more andmore true to who they truly are.
And that takes some time andeffort, because we have become
who we identify with in thatrelationship or in that
particular situation and we haveto learn how we're going to be
(28:52):
safe and okay on our own becausewe know what's true to us.
So happiness is part of that isbeing in alignment with your
own self, because the idea is isthat it shouldn't take somebody
else to make you happy.
Your happiness comes fromwithin.
And learning that is a verychallenging thing when we've
(29:16):
always been looking to theoutside for our kids to make us
happy or our spouse to make ushappy or whoever else, and so um
, and that's why you youprobably know I mean this work,
I mean we fill in voids wherewe're unhappy with other things
that come in, and you know itcomes in, and it's also a way to
(29:36):
mask or cover up feelings.
It's like, you know, drinking orovereating or whatever the
different vices.
We do these things so we don'thave to feel.
And when we're doing that we'rekind of glazing over what's
really going on and it's gettingkind of more true to our own
selves.
(29:56):
And that's what I mean inalignment is balancing out that
defiant and compliant piece ofus, letting go of the fear so we
can come back into our own selfand be completely at peace with
who we are and not alwaystrying to figure out what
everybody else needs from us, sowe can be who they need us to
(30:22):
be but not who we need us to be.
So there's always a cost, youknow, in all, for all this,
because you have to be willingto be uncomfortable with that,
you have to be unwilling tosometimes disappoint other
people, but yeah as women moms,caretakers
Speaker 3 (30:44):
that's the last thing we want to do.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, and constantly justifying why we're doing it
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah, that alignment piece, though it makes me think
of we're on one side or theother, right Masculine feminine,
rather than coming to thecenter.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yes, because there's a balance.
It it's not a gender thing,it's a energetic thing, it's
it's we.
We all have both in us, rightas it's meant to be.
And sometimes, when we'reexercising more of the feminine
side that's when the creativepieces come out More masculine
side, we're getting stuff done.
I mean, there's those kinds ofthings, and so when you can
(31:32):
balance those things out, it's abeautiful alignment with who
you are meant to be.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Right, we're much happier.
Yes, because we're aligned.
I'm wondering, as we wrap uphere, if you can give our
listeners one piece of advicefor anybody that might be
standing here at the crossroadsof divorce, empty nesting,
reinvention.
What would that one piece ofadvice be if I'm here at this
(31:59):
crossroad?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
give yourself permission to see things
differently and to stop arguingfor your limitations and
understanding that the fears anddoubts aren't really facts.
They're just echoes of yourpast trying to take you off
(32:29):
course, and all those fears haveno right to design your life.
Only you know what's the bestfor you and it's so really not
taking a poll of what everybodyelse thinks you should do is
really spending some time withyou and understanding what it is
that you need in your life.
I love that.
(32:50):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah, I realized that when I my intuition speaks for
me there, I don't need anybody'sopinion about it, it just is
that right.
And so when you're still andyou can listen, you know I don't
need to go.
You know, do a socialexperiment of asking everybody
what they think about it.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
A survey, let's say yeah, what do you think about it
?
No, we're true to our hearts.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, michelle, this is such a great conversation and
we could go on for a long time.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Thank you, yes, so my website is michelleheffroncom.
Thank you, yes, so my websiteis michelleheffroncom.
I'm on the socials on LinkedIn,instagram and Facebook.
I have my podcast Getting tothe Heart and gosh what else.
And I do have.
I'm launching a book club.
I don't know when this is goingto air, but the first book
(33:44):
we're reading for my book clubis Untamed and I think it's a
good book, best one Spot on forthis conversation.
We're happy that's a book I'veread over and over again.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
It's another one to keep on the shelf, right, don't
get the Kindle copy.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
We need a hard copy of that book.
I have it in hard copy, kindleand audio book.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
I do, and I'm taking it this weekend.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Oh, good, good, you have a nice good book we're
recording over Labor Day weekend, so nice reading time Before we
let you go.
Michelle, though, we ask everyguest what the best piece of
advice you've ever received orgiven has been.
What would you say to that?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Best piece of advice?
Gosh, I've gotten so muchadvice over the years.
I think the best piece ofadvice is one I got from my
coach, and several years ago,and it is as women, as humans,
(34:48):
we have the right to be, do andhave anything we want and desire
, and that doesn't mean in agreedy way, it just means that
we don't turn ourselves insideout to please other people.
We actually can have it and wedeserve it, and I think that's
(35:11):
the one thing that people misssometimes is that we deserve to
have love in our lives.
We deserve to have peoplesurround us who care and are
kind and compassionate, and wedeserve abundance and all kinds
of goodness.
And when you understand thatyou are deserving of these
(35:33):
things as hard as that can be ifyou've been conditioned
differently that opens up somany more doors and possibility.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
It's a great reminder .
It's a good reminder.
It's hard to, it's hard tobelieve that sometimes, but it's
good to try on every once in awhile.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
It is.
Yeah, Put that jacket on everyday.
You are deserving and you areenough.
Exactly.
Thank you for that, Michelle,and thank you so much for being
on the show.
I'm sure that our paths willcross again and for listeners
until we meet again, go find joyin the journey.
I'm sure that our paths willcross again.
And for listeners until we meetagain, go find joy in the
journey.
Take care now.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia menopause podcast.
(36:16):
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up,
subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at Medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
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