September 8, 2025 • 44 mins
Senator Lori Urso of Rhode Island takes us behind the scenes of America's first-ever workplace menopause legislation in this powerful conversation about leadership, advocacy, and breaking barriers. Drawing from her personal journey through menopause that nearly derailed her career, Senator Erso reveals how she transformed her struggles into groundbreaking policy change that's now serving as a model for other states.
The conversation moves seamlessly between deeply personal revelations and strategic policy insights. Senator Urso candidly shares how seven years of unmanaged menopause symptoms led her to actually resign from her position before finally finding proper treatment. "I almost quit my job," she reveals, highlighting the real-world consequences when menopausal women lack proper support. This vulnerability becomes the foundation for understanding why workplace accommodations aren't just compassionate—they're economically essential.
What makes this episode particularly valuable is the practical roadmap Senator Urso provides for creating change. Rather than crafting entirely new legislation, she strategically amended existing fair employment practices law to include menopause protections alongside pregnancy and breastfeeding accommodations. This smart approach positions menopause as a normal life transition rather than a disability and offers a template that other states can easily adopt.
Beyond the legislation itself, Senator Urso addresses the cultural shifts needed to truly support women in midlife. "We have to stop the narrative of 'she's crazy,'" she emphasizes, calling for greater compassion and understanding between women. Her wisdom on leadership—from trusting your instincts to considering others' perspectives in negotiations—provides valuable guidance for women navigating their own leadership journeys through the menopause transition and beyond.
Tune in to discover how this landmark legislation is sparking conversations nationwide and learn why supporting women through menopause isn't just the right thing to do—it's smart business practice in our evolving workforce. Whether you're experiencing menopause, supporting someone who is, or making workplace policy, this episode offers essential insights on creating more inclusive, productive environments for all.
Senator Lori Urso is a Democrat representing District 8 (Pawtucket) in the Rhode Island Senate. She was elected in November 2024.
Senator Urso serves as secretary of the Senate Committee on Health & Human Services, and serves as a member of both the Senate Committee on Environment & Agriculture, and the Senate Committee on Artificial Intelligence & Emerging Technologies.
Senator Urso brings a record of leadership and accomplishment in local government and the nonprofit sector.
Senator Urso served on the Rhode Island Historical Records Advisory Board from 2015 to 2025, and has been a founding co-chair of Pawtucket International Women's Day since 2015. She served nine years on the board of the Pawtucket Foundation, and two terms on Pawtucket’s Charter Review Commission. She currently serves on the Pawtucket Riverfront Commission.
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Email Us: info@midovia.com
MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
April Haberman (00:00):
Welcome to the Midovia Menopause Podcast
Business Edition, your trustedsource for insights on menopause
and midlife in the workplace.
Each episode featuresmeaningful conversations with
inspiring guests.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
Hi everyone, did you know?
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(00:22):
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Our program is the benchmark ofexcellence, backed by five
years of experience, workingwith hundreds of employers
around the globe, with ourworldwide partners.
You can join now with a 20%discount off your first year's
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In honor of perimenopause andworld menopause months.
Join before October 31st toreceive your discount by
(00:47):
visiting menopausefriendlyuscom.
Welcome everyone.
We are so happy today to haveSenator Lori Erso of Rhode
Island with us.
Senator Erso's career has beendefined by leadership and
community impact.
Senator Urso has been apassionate champion for women's
(01:11):
leadership and health equity,and she recently made national
headlines by passing thecountry's first workplace
menopause legislation which, bythe way, we're going to dive
deep into in just a moment.
But we're excited for theconversation because we're going
to explore your journey,senator Urso, the significance
(01:31):
of women's representation ingovernment and how your
groundbreaking menopause law ishelping to spark cultural change
across workplaces today.
So thank you so much forjoining us today and spending
time having a conversation aboutsuch an important topic, my
pleasure.
Senator Urso (01:50):
Happy to speak more on it.
April Haberman (01:51):
Yeah, we're looking forward to diving into
the menopause legislation, butI'd like to start off by talking
about your leadership and howthat shapes leadership roles for
other women, because I reallyfeel like you are paving a path
for the next generation and evenour generation here, as many
(02:12):
women in midlife are looking atthis transitional period to
change careers or step up toleadership positions.
So you have been a trailblazerin multiple arenas local
government, historicalpreservation and now in your
role as Rhode Island Senate.
(02:34):
So can I ask you, what hasleadership looked like for you
at different stages of yourcareer?
Senator Urso (02:41):
Sure, well, I have always held leadership roles, I
think my first position as anexecutive director.
I was 28 years old and I'vealways held that role, that
level of leadership position.
I guess it just came verynaturally to me.
Some would probably say you'rebossy.
(03:02):
I think I've heard that before.
You know that's okay.
But you know, I would say whenI was in my 20s and 30s, I had a
different perspective.
Right, perhaps I was a littleless patient, I hadn't had as
many life experiences.
I maybe was trying to achieveeverything and not maybe be as
(03:26):
compassionate or empathetic withpeople and those things you
generate with age.
Right, you go through lifeexperiences.
You have ups and downs.
Occasionally you're knockeddown a peg.
You learn through that processto be more introspective, to
(03:50):
think about what's behindsomebody's own perspective, what
they might be going through ata particular time, and it's less
about you, perhaps, and moreabout those that you are working
with with.
I've also found that as I'veaged, through my work experience
(04:11):
, I've been called on more to bea mentor to younger emerging
leaders, and going through thatprocess also gave me a different
perspective that you know, onceyou're mentoring people, then
you want to be very carefulabout the.
You know the impact you mayhave on their life, the.
You know the role that youwould want them to emulate and
(04:35):
so all of those things reallychange you.
And it was funny Yesterday Ihad a very full day and I said
to my husband you know, Ithought I was peaking in life at
45.
And now here I am.
I just turned 61.
And I feel like I'm goingthrough a new peak, or maybe
(04:57):
this is the peak.
So you know, you're alwaysgrowing and you're always
changing and the possibilitiesare endless, as long as you, you
know, stay involved and try to.
You know work toward thegreater good.
I think that's what's important.
Kim Hart (05:12):
I love that and I think that age is beautiful.
I remember people saying likewhen I got older, I wanted to
keep my wisdom, but I wish mybody was younger and I'm like
whatever, yeah, yeah.
And now I'm like I totallyagree with that.
I love that you're taking onmentoring.
That's such an important thingfor women who want to lead.
(05:35):
What advice are you givingwomen in you know, who are up
and coming right now, in thisenvironment, at this time?
What?
What are some of the keymessages that you're helping
with?
Senator Urso (05:47):
Well, with mentoring, you know I've
mentored some young women and atfirst blush I would meet them
and typically I will mentorwomen who are becoming executive
directors or taking onleadership roles in
organizations, and occasionallyI'll come across and I'll say
you know, you seem like you haveeverything together.
What can I do for you?
(06:08):
And they're like oh no, Ireally don't.
And it's, you know, a matter ofhow to maintain your
self-confidence, to trust yourinstincts.
Trusting your instincts issomething that it took me a long
time to learn, that.
I can't tell you how many timesalong the way my gut was
(06:29):
telling me something and I wasignoring that, and I don't
ignore that anymore.
And I think that, generallyspeaking, you know we have our
experience.
Our education has given usthose skills that we can
determine what's right andwhat's wrong, and I think it's
really important to listen tothat and, of course, never stop
(06:53):
learning.
Be open to every perspective.
You know not to be closed tojust yours, but somebody you
might not agree with or youdon't think you're going to
agree with their perspective,and at the end of a conversation
you may not, but you still willlearn something from why they
feel the way they feel, andthere's value in that, and I
(07:15):
think those are the importantthings, as you're, you know,
coming up in your career and,you know, want to have a
positive experience and be arole model for others.
Kim Hart (07:27):
That's great, following your intuition.
It's when you don't, when Idon't, I'm like you know what
you were right, right.
So I think that that's trustingGreat point.
April Haberman (07:39):
Yeah, trust your instinct.
It made me, you know, rewind 20years, 30 years, 40 years ago,
when I was early in my careerwith, to your point, kim and
Senator Erso, not following thatinstinct, and I think a lot of
it comes back to self doubt andquestioning your capability and
(08:02):
that comparison.
Am I good enough?
We're really good at doing thatas women, and I think
oftentimes that holds us backfrom taking that next step,
putting our name in the hat fora new position.
And it's important to havewomen in leadership roles, and
(08:23):
I'm wondering what your opinionis with that, senator Erso.
When women step into leadershiproles, it matters.
So can you expand on that alittle bit?
as well, why?
Why do you think that thatmatters?
Senator Urso (08:41):
Well, just, I wanted to go back first and I'll
talk about that to somethingthat you made me think about is
the imposter syndrome that westruggle throughout our careers
and this was something thatreally for my entire career
there probably been times I'mlike you know people are going
to figure out that I'm reallynot that good and I've been
(09:02):
certainly reinforced many timesduring my career, but I have
fallen into that trap ofdoubting myself, have overcome
(09:27):
that at some point.
The self-doubt that sets inwhen you're going through the
transition can be reallydebilitating.
It's just one of those thingsthat, once again, you have to
overcome that.
So, with women in leadership,to get to that point, I mean we
have a unique perspective, right.
I mean where the sex that candeliver babies, right, where we
(09:49):
have that as unique to us, thenurturing aspect, the hormones
that are associated with thatoxytocin, right, and things that
give us that level ofcompassion, empathy, ability to
really have a warmth.
And perhaps you'd say, oh, Iknow plenty of women who are
(10:09):
cold.
Yeah, I'm sure, because they're.
You know they have to be toughin certain scenarios, but I
think you know those drivers areunique to us and also just that
.
Well, I hope that things arechanging as the generations, the
new generations, are coming up.
But as a baby boomer, I had todeal with, you know, when sexual
(10:35):
harassment was okay in theworkplace and was, you know,
quite prevalent.
And when you know women wereoverlooked and we were
considered inferior.
And so you develop, you knowyou might put up a wall in some
cases, but you also get somecalluses Right and you, as you
(10:55):
continue forward, you have astrength about you.
There are challenges for women,of course, that I think men are
not judged similarly.
For example, your likability,right, how often do we talk
about a man's likability, butwhen it's a woman in a
(11:16):
leadership position, is shelikable?
Well, there's just somethingabout her that I don't like,
like or I can't quite put myfinger on, and we tend to be
judged, you know, based on thoseaspects of our personality that
may be rather superficial,obviously, I think.
Still, we're judged byappearance, you know, and
(11:39):
perhaps more harshly so we haveto, as women leaders.
As we're coming up as womenleaders, we're bringing those
types of experiences andbreaking those barriers, and so
I think that's really important,a motivator for having more
(11:59):
women in leadership positions,more women in elected positions
and, you know, bringing those,those types of sensibilities
with us.
Kim Hart (12:11):
I love that.
April Haberman (12:13):
Representation matters?
It definitely matters.
Can I come back to somethingthat you said too, and then I'd
love to dive into the menopausebill that you were highly
involved with.
You noted that the self-doubtin this transitional period with
(12:34):
menopause can really have aneffect on women, and we've seen
it with the clients that we workwith and we've seen it with the
clients that we work with.
Brain fog, you know, lack ofsleep, the fatigue from not
sleeping night after night, youknow, week after week, month
after month, it begins to playgames on you, especially when
(13:05):
you have been performing at yourpeak.
You know, high level, you'requick to the punch and then all
of a sudden, menopause symptomskick in and you have that
self-doubt.
We see that 14% of women don'tput their name in the hat for a
promotion, based on our data.
You know that might look alittle bit different depending
on the report that you'rereading, but it's a significant
amount of women and I believethat that percentage is higher
because there's still stigma andshame associated with menopause
(13:28):
and therefore the data isn'treal.
Women aren't talking aboutmenopause.
So how many more are notputting their name in the ocean
and just not talking about it?
Right, it's the silent ceiling,so to speak, and I think that's
one of the reasons why youadvocated for this menopause
(13:50):
legislation.
So I'd love to shift gears andtalk a little bit more about
that.
Rhode Island became the firststate in the nation to pass a
law requiring employers toprovide menopause support,
thanks to your leadership.
So thank you for that.
Before we move on, tell us whythat was important for you
(14:13):
personally and professionally,sure, so personally, I went
through, you know, quite achallenge once I entered the
menopause transition.
Senator Urso (14:27):
It took me a while to realize and I feel now like
why didn't I realize what wasgoing on with me?
I should have known, but itcomes on so subtly, right.
And then it's just a gradualprogression and of course,
you're dealing with the anxiety,the self-doubt, the panic.
You don't know if maybe you'resick, right um.
(14:48):
And after the first few yearsof that, I was asking my doctor.
You know, I need some support,something's going on.
And I thought I knew hormone,menopausal hormone therapy would
help me, but my first doctorjust laughed at me when I
suggested it.
And after the compounding of thesleeplessness, the cardiac
(15:13):
symptoms night after night, andthe brain fog that was coming
from it, my inability toconcentrate, but also the
irritability that was comingfrom it my inability to
concentrate, but also theirritability I had gotten to a
point where I didn't think Icould function in my job anymore
(15:34):
and I almost quit my job.
I actually did quit my job, butthankfully it was early March
2020.
And the pandemic saved me.
I'd given my boss 30 daysnotice.
He's the chairman of our board,of my organization, and he was,
like you know, I could tell hewas like, why, like what reason
would you have for this?
And I came up with some reasonand then, a couple of weeks into
(15:58):
the 30 days, we had to shutdown the museum I was running a
museum at the time and layeverybody off and I said you
know what?
I think I'll just stay putbecause I knew I could go to
work alone and during that timeI was able to get the treatment
I needed.
But that experience over I mean, it was really about seven
years for me led me to trying tofind information, supportive
(16:24):
information, and at the time inthe United States I found that
to be limited.
So I turned to the UK, ofcourse, which was far more
progressive and open in thisarea, and I started to read
Menopause Matters newsletter andthey were tackling the subject
(16:44):
of menopause in the workplacequite aggressively and I hadn't
to my board members, many ofwhom were men, and try to
(17:05):
explain, you know, thesesymptoms I was having.
So when I earned a seat in theSenate, I knew that this was an
area I really wanted to champion.
And you know, I started to havethose conversations and I knew
I would have to be verystrategic about it, because I
(17:25):
had asked one of the othersenators how can I find out what
types of legislation or, youknow, initiatives had been
proposed surrounding menopause,and she said I've never heard
the word menopause in thischamber and she'd been a senator
for quite a while.
So I said, ok, it's going totake some bravery, I'm going to
(17:50):
have to really open up on thisand I'm going to have to face my
male colleagues, but I think,with the proper strategy and
taking the time to educate them,that I can make progress in
this area.
Frankly, I wasn't sure I couldget a bill passed in the first
year, and so I really wasthoughtful about it and how I
(18:13):
navigated the chamber and builtthe relationships that it
required, but it no longer is anissue for me as an employee.
Right, that ship has sailed,although I still use menopausal
hormone therapy, because when I,when I stop using it, I can see
like my hot flashes, my nightsweats still come back.
(18:35):
So as long as it's safe for meto be on it, I'll continue to
take advantage of that.
But it's really for thegenerations after right, it's
for the Gen Xers, who arebecoming more vocal, and the
millennials, who are going todemand this support, and so
really, that's where I hopewe'll see the impact, and that's
(18:57):
really my motivation for takingthis on.
It came from my personalchallenges and I knew I wasn't
alone once I started to lookinto it, so you're not alone.
April Haberman (19:11):
You're in company of thousands and
thousands of others that areliterally going through the same
struggle.
I mean, I know Kim has her ownstory, I have my own story.
Um, thankfully, I had a veryflexible working environment at
the time, like you did, when Iwas struggling through those
(19:33):
symptoms or I would have quit myjob as well.
Kim quit her job, so she is theone in 10 that quit her job due
to menopause symptoms, the onein 10 that quit her job due to
menopause symptoms.
And I think it comes back towhat you mentioned we're not
educating where the cultureisn't a safe culture yet, where
(19:55):
we have educated and trainedenough everyone, across all
levels of the organization, toreally understand what menopause
is and what it isn't, and tocreate those environments where
women can say, hey, I'm having ahot flash or I'm having
(20:17):
challenges and it's temporary, Ineed to get the help to
alleviate need, or to step outof the room to grab a cold sip
(20:46):
of water, or maybe to just stepoutside for a moment, right,
until we can get the help thatwe need.
So speak to us a little bitmore about the bill itself,
because I think there are somethat would say we don't need
this legislation.
Some might say that it setswomen up for discrimination.
(21:09):
If we're saying we've got up to34 plus symptoms that we can
experience, that might positionus as lesser than, or incapable
or less productive.
You fill in the blanks.
So what would you say to thosethat are questioning the
legislation?
Senator Urso (21:29):
Well, you know, I felt that women's voices around
the world on this issue now havebecome quite loud.
And for people who say, youknow, where did this come from?
Did this come out of left field?
No, Laurie Urso didn't inventthis and I've told people that.
If you, you know particularlypeople who have doubts, if you
(21:53):
simply Google menopauseworkplace and hit the news link,
you'd be amazed at how far andwide this discussion is
internationally.
And I've noticed, even just inthe past few weeks, as I've been
, you know, tracking the mediaresponse.
New Zealand, Kenya, Ghana,Indonesia, India, Canada,
(22:19):
European countries women arebecoming very vocal about this
and need support in this area.
And in Rhode Island in my state,well, we know, I think
nationally, that the fastestgrowing segment of the workforce
is women over 40, roughlyspeaking.
Rhode Island has an olderworkforce.
(22:40):
Our worker is older.
Our average worker is olderthan the national average and
when you look at the data on ourworkforce, you can extrapolate
that more than 11% of all peopleof working age in the state of
Rhode Island are women betweenthe ages of 45 and 59.
(23:01):
Are women between the ages of45 and 59.
Because of lower birth ratesover a number of decades, there
are fewer workers on the youngend and we keep hearing about
worker shortages.
So it's a lot less costly toretain your talent than to try
to replace and recruit andretrain, and so women in that
(23:26):
demographic have a level ofexperience that's of value to
their teams.
And, as you were saying, thiscan be a very temporary period
of life.
But because of the challengeand perhaps lack of information,
as I said, the menopausetransition comes on very
(23:47):
gradually.
You may not know what's hittingyou, you may think you have
another illness, You're perhapsgetting misdiagnosed, you might
leave the workforce and when youfinally have the treatment you
need or come to the other sideof this, you're like, hey, what
happened?
I blew up my career, everythingI worked for, and now it's
(24:10):
harder to get hired becauseyou're fighting other barriers.
So that's the idea is it's amodicum of support that we're
talking about here and justhelping women get through this
period and remain in theirpositions so that they can
achieve at their highest levels,they can attain a higher pay
(24:33):
grade and, of course, mostimportantly, better prepare for
retirement.
And that's really what my goalis with this legislation is that
we are preserving our workforcein Rhode Island.
Now, Rhode Island, as you know,is the smallest state.
It's very small and often it'sa test market for things like
(24:55):
silently.
We don't always know thatmanufacturers are putting
products into the Rhode Islandmarket as a test, because it's a
very unique.
You know geography and we can.
You know they can test outdifferent products on a small
scale and I think it's the samewith this legislation as we can
(25:16):
see on a smaller scale how itwill play out in the workforce,
what the employers need.
In fact, I'm meeting the weekafter next with our Department
of Labor and Training so that Ican match them up with the
resources that are available foremployers, so that they have
(25:37):
that information at the readyand they can provide that.
Because you know it's one thingto pass the legislation, but
then you can't just leave allthe employers high and dry.
So I really want to be part ofmaking those connections and
making sure that the employershave the tools they need to be
resourceful, you know, to be aresource for their employees, to
(26:00):
understand what their employees, who may be at this period in
their life, are going throughand how to keep them on the job
and help them to succeed attheir highest levels.
And I think if there's anunknown, you know something
that's new may always be scaryor people may be hesitant or
(26:21):
resistant, but I think in timeemployers will see it's not a
big deal and they'll have ahappier workforce, a healthier
workforce and a workforce that'smore loyal to them because they
stepped up and supported them,and that's what I'm looking for
long term.
Kim Hart (26:39):
There's lots of data that says that employees want to
stay when they're treated well.
And the demographic issue youmentioned is is is a problem for
Rhode Island, but it's going tobe a problem everywhere.
Yes, do you see Rhode Island'smove on this model for other
states?
And what?
What do you think it would taketo make menopausal support sort
(27:02):
of a national standard, justlike the UK?
Senator Urso (27:04):
just has right.
Yeah, I know it's becoming amodel because I'm on Zoom calls
quite often with other statesthat are asking me okay, how do
we get this through?
So you know, the first thingabout it is I worked with an
attorney in our legislativecouncil, michelle Kazarian, who
(27:25):
was very helpful, and of course,I had, you know, maybe a bigger
idea in mind, that I was goingto create this new law, and you
know it was going to be whatever, just recraft something new.
And she said you know why don'twe work within an existing
framework that we have, and inour case, it's our fair
(27:47):
employment practices law?
She said we already have theframework, we just need to add a
few things.
It would be very simple and bydoing that we'll be less
vulnerable to, as the bill makesits way through the process, to
people trying to amend the billsubtract from the bill.
So that is, I think, the firstlesson that the other states are
(28:11):
taking from my experience isthey're looking at what is in
the existing framework thatsimply needs to be tweaked to
make this change in their states, and others might not call it
fair employment practices.
It could be a civil rights law,it could be other types of
workplace discrimination, butfor us, we simply added
(28:34):
menopause and menopause-relatedconditions to what already
protects women in pregnancy andduring breastfeeding, and those
types of accommodations.
And it makes sense, right,because the menopause transition
is just on the other end of thearc of what leads us to be able
to get pregnant and bearchildren.
(28:55):
So it's part of that same, youknow, aspect of life that's
unique to women, and I reallythink that was great advice and
that was, you know, the firststep towards success was
approaching it that way, and soI think that's where states can
(29:15):
perhaps be most effective inintroducing it into their state.
April Haberman (29:47):
Right, yeah, and neither did Medovia.
I mean, we've had aconversation, in several
conversations, senator Urso, andwhen Medovia launched our
menopause in the workplaceprogramming, we took lessons
from the UK rather thanreinventing the wheel, and
that's what we're talking abouthere.
You don't have to start atground zero.
There's an easier point ofentry, and I love that you're
sharing that knowledge withother states, because we hope to
see legislation change in all50 states, frankly and it starts
with education.
I'm hearing Educate, educate,educate Not only your
constituents, but in theworkplace as well.
So it starts with you and yourcolleagues and trickles out to
(30:13):
the workplace, and I thinkwithout that education and
awareness, you know, justpassing a legislative bill isn't
as effective as it possiblycould be.
That's an ongoing educationthat needs to happen, and I also
think that this bill really I'mat a loss for words for here I
(30:41):
want to say something, but Iwant to say it differently but
it really is a launchpad.
I'll call it.
It's a spark that we can fan tobegin the conversation in the
workplace, because without it itmight not happen.
Let's face it, organizationsare not anxious to talk about
(31:03):
menopause in the workplace, andthis is really a spark that
starts that conversation, ratherthan handcuffs, if you will.
I don't see this bill ashandcuffs and I think it's
perspective on how people cancan view this.
We view it as something that'ssensational, fantastic.
(31:24):
It's going to spark thatconversation and I love that you
are providing resources on theback end as well.
To say it's not hard.
We're not asking for you tospend millions of dollars to
implement menopause programmingin the workplace.
There's simple changes thatthey can implement that can make
(31:47):
a huge difference in theworkplace, and we talked a
couple weeks ago about the ISO45,010, the international
standard that's getting ready tobe released sometime next year.
Adobe has been highly involvedwith that and we're very much
looking forward to releasingthat.
That's a free document that'sgoing to be out there for any
(32:07):
employer to download.
It's not something we want toread, you know, at midnight
because it's a lengthy document,but the resources are there.
There are free resources thatare available all over the place
, and there are organizationslike Madobia and others that are
helping organizations to comealong.
(32:28):
So thank you again for the workthat you're doing.
I'm wondering what feedbackyou've heard, just generally
speaking.
What feedback are you hearingfrom businesses, from women's
health advocates across thenation.
What's the feedback been?
Senator Urso (32:46):
I mean generally very positive.
There have been many articlesnationwide that have, you know,
obviously applauded the conceptof what we're doing.
There have been some that arejust quite factual, that are
resources for employers.
(33:07):
Rhode Island has passed thisnew law.
Here's some ideas that youshould this type of information
readily available, because Ithink the narrative is that this
(33:33):
will sort of propel change inother states and so other states
should perhaps be prepared.
I haven't heard much to thenegative.
You know, occasionally I'llhear a comment.
There was one opinion piecethat was released that was, you
(33:54):
know, kind of questioned whetherI was classifying menopause as
a disability.
And you know, all press is goodpress.
I'm glad everybody's writingand it's fine to hear all
perspectives, but there isnothing in the legislation that
we pass that even uses the worddisability.
(34:16):
So we're certainly notclassifying or categorizing
menopause as a disability, whereit's a part of life, a normal
part of life.
That's what we want it to berecognized as.
We want to make sure that womencan discuss it without feeling
they'll be discriminated in theworkplace, and that's one of the
(34:37):
protections that's provided inthe bill.
And look, you know, we're inwork a third of our lives.
I mean, I'm in work every dayduring the day, so this is an
important part of our day andwe're interacting with more
people perhaps than we do athome, and you know, we just want
to feel supported through aperiod in our life, just like if
(35:01):
we were trying to have a babyor if we'd become pregnant.
Our employers know that theyprobably would consider if we
had a dangerous job, that they'dwant to protect us in our state
of pregnancy, that they're notdiscriminating against us for
(35:21):
that, knowing that we'll needfamily leave following the
pregnancy, which some statesprovide or some employers
provide and that perhaps, ifwe're breastfeeding, we need
accommodations.
People aren't discriminatingagainst women because of that
and we're not treating them likethey're disabled.
(35:41):
So it's the same thing with themenopause transition we're not
suggesting it's a disability,nor does this legislation treat
it that way.
Kim Hart (35:52):
I love that description.
That's really, that's reallygreat.
That really helps clarify whythis isn't a discrimination
protection that you know.
This is that you treateverybody equally and how, and
actually how you'd want to betreated in those situations,
right.
April Haberman (36:08):
And it sounds like mostly the feedback has
been positive.
So that's good to hear.
You know we often aftertraining sessions, we have a lot
of men that attend the sessionsas well as women, and that's
important that everyone iseducated and understands
(36:30):
menopause.
But you know we often have themost questions after our
sessions from males who truly,for the first time, understand
menopause.
You know it's beyond the imageof an old woman fanning herself.
It goes much, much deeper thanthat and they're thankful for
(36:55):
this education and thatinformation because they do
understand it and they trulywant to support and help
employees, colleagues and theirspouses and partners.
You know we did a session acouple months colleagues and
their spouses and partners.
You know we did a session acouple months ago and the line
after the session to askquestions was all men.
(37:15):
Yeah, we had questions abouttheir partners and their spouses
and how can I help, and thelight bulb went off.
So again, I think this is thatconduit to a greater support
system and normalizing theconversation and helping people
to understand that this isnormal, it's not a disability to
(37:36):
your point, and it doesn't takemuch to accommodate an employee
.
And why wouldn't you as anorganization?
Because it benefits you as faras the employee.
There's a huge business case tobe made and this isn't the
platform for that today, but weall know that there's a return
(38:02):
on the investment there inretaining that talent, as you
mentioned, Senator Urso, andemployees are more productive
when they have the support thatthey need.
So, and employees are moreproductive when they have the
support that they need.
And if we don't have to see five, six, seven, eight healthcare
physicians to get the answersthat we need to help with
symptoms, healthcare support isin place right.
That saves an organizationmoney on their healthcare costs.
So it's a broader picture thatyou're painting here.
(38:27):
I think you you have taken, ifI can just say, the first few
brushstrokes on this canvas tocreate this beautiful picture,
and we are so thankful for that.
Our time is coming to an end,but I want to just ask you if
there's anything that you wouldlike to share with our listeners
(38:48):
, if you would like to say toorganizations before we sign off
is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you really
have a burning desire to say?
You know what they need to knowthis?
Senator Urso (39:01):
Yeah, I don't know , but I would just say that, you
know, first of all, we have tostop the narrative of she's
crazy OK, that's a big one, andthat's a big one in the
workplace.
She's not crazy, she's justgoing through a natural
transition in life and we needto support her.
And I would say that especiallyto women.
(39:23):
Ok, my experience is that, youknow, women can be harsh, women
can be negative.
We need to uplift each otherand stop being part of that
narrative just to impress otherpeople or, you know, join in a
chorus of negativity.
I think that's really important, I know.
(39:45):
You know, when I went throughmy struggles, some women, like,
turned away from me somefriendships, and after the fact
I thought I'm sure that personmust have gone through what I
went through.
Where was the compassion, youknow?
So I think that's reallyimportant at work and just in
life that we, you know, continueto support each other, empower
(40:08):
each other, help each otherthrough a challenging time, and
I just think that will make allthe difference for all of us.
Kim Hart (40:17):
Really, I love that.
So where can people find youand this bill and the work that
you're doing?
I'm sure that if you want to,oh, no go ahead, please, okay.
Senator Urso (40:37):
Well, if you want to look up the bill, the website
rilegislaturegov leads you to aplatform.
You can go to bills and lawsand just type in number 361.
This is Senate Bill 361.
So if you'd like to read thebill, you can find it there.
I believe my bio and a link tomy email is on the Rhode Island
Legislature website.
(40:57):
You can connect with me thereand perhaps my office number is
on there.
People are finding me, so it'snot that hard yeah.
Kim Hart (41:09):
I have a feeling you're not done with this.
April Haberman (41:13):
I have a feeling you're going to have a lot more
in the future.
Kim Hart (41:16):
You are going to take some leadership space in this,
and it's amazing.
Well, I'm happy to.
Senator Urso (41:21):
Yeah, I think it's really important and I know, as
I said, I learned through mydiscovery that I'm not alone in
this.
This is a dialogue that isgoing on around the world and
I'm happy to contribute to thegreater knowledge on this
subject, the dialogue andhelping women to feel
(41:44):
comfortable speaking about itand helping employers to
participate in a way that youknow is beneficial to them as
well as their workforce.
April Haberman (41:55):
So good, you're leaving a legacy, so thank you.
Yeah, you are.
You know, we ask every guest,before we sign off, what the
best piece of advice you've everreceived or given has been.
So I'm going to ask you thatsame question before we sign off
.
Senator Urso (42:13):
Probably the advice I've used most was during
a workshop on negotiation wherethey said before you begin a
negotiation, think verycarefully about what you think
the position of the other sideis and I alluded to that even
earlier and conversing withpeople that perhaps don't agree
(42:34):
with you what's their motivation, or what do you imagine is
their motivation, what do youthink is their perspective,
what's driving them?
And I think that's reallyimportant advice.
I certainly have used thatthroughout my career.
I learned it when I wasvolunteering for the League of
Women Voters, actually probably40 years ago, and I've always
(42:55):
held on to that.
So I would just encourage youto think about the other
person's perspective and whatyou know, their motivations and
what their motivations and whattheir experience may be, and
take that to heart.
April Haberman (43:08):
Yeah, it's the curiosity piece right.
Curiosity and learning andgrowing and understanding and
having compassion.
That's great.
Well, thank you for taking thetime once again to be here with
us today.
We're looking forward to moreconversations to come on this
topic, but until we meet again,listeners, go have a joy in the
(43:31):
journey, take care.
Senator Urso (43:35):
Thank you very much.
April Haberman (43:38):
Thank you for listening to the Medovia
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If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
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That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
Welcome to the Midovia Menopause Podcast
Business Edition, your trustedsource for insights on menopause
and midlife in the workplace.
Each episode featuresmeaningful conversations with
inspiring guests.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
Hi everyone, did you know?
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(00:22):
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Our program is the benchmark ofexcellence, backed by five
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You can join now with a 20%discount off your first year's
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Join before October 31st toreceive your discount by
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visiting menopausefriendlyuscom.
Welcome everyone.
We are so happy today to haveSenator Lori Erso of Rhode
Island with us.
Senator Erso's career has beendefined by leadership and
community impact.
Senator Urso has been apassionate champion for women's
(01:11):
leadership and health equity,and she recently made national
headlines by passing thecountry's first workplace
menopause legislation which, bythe way, we're going to dive
deep into in just a moment.
But we're excited for theconversation because we're going
to explore your journey,senator Urso, the significance
(01:31):
of women's representation ingovernment and how your
groundbreaking menopause law ishelping to spark cultural change
across workplaces today.
So thank you so much forjoining us today and spending
time having a conversation aboutsuch an important topic, my
pleasure.
Senator Urso (01:50):
Happy to speak more on it.
April Haberman (01:51):
Yeah, we're looking forward to diving into
the menopause legislation, butI'd like to start off by talking
about your leadership and howthat shapes leadership roles for
other women, because I reallyfeel like you are paving a path
for the next generation and evenour generation here, as many
(02:12):
women in midlife are looking atthis transitional period to
change careers or step up toleadership positions.
So you have been a trailblazerin multiple arenas local
government, historicalpreservation and now in your
role as Rhode Island Senate.
(02:34):
So can I ask you, what hasleadership looked like for you
at different stages of yourcareer?
Senator Urso (02:41):
Sure, well, I have always held leadership roles, I
think my first position as anexecutive director.
I was 28 years old and I'vealways held that role, that
level of leadership position.
I guess it just came verynaturally to me.
Some would probably say you'rebossy.
(03:02):
I think I've heard that before.
You know that's okay.
But you know, I would say whenI was in my 20s and 30s, I had a
different perspective.
Right, perhaps I was a littleless patient, I hadn't had as
many life experiences.
I maybe was trying to achieveeverything and not maybe be as
(03:26):
compassionate or empathetic withpeople and those things you
generate with age.
Right, you go through lifeexperiences.
You have ups and downs.
Occasionally you're knockeddown a peg.
You learn through that processto be more introspective, to
(03:50):
think about what's behindsomebody's own perspective, what
they might be going through ata particular time, and it's less
about you, perhaps, and moreabout those that you are working
with with.
I've also found that as I'veaged, through my work experience
(04:11):
, I've been called on more to bea mentor to younger emerging
leaders, and going through thatprocess also gave me a different
perspective that you know, onceyou're mentoring people, then
you want to be very carefulabout the.
You know the impact you mayhave on their life, the.
You know the role that youwould want them to emulate and
(04:35):
so all of those things reallychange you.
And it was funny Yesterday Ihad a very full day and I said
to my husband you know, Ithought I was peaking in life at
45.
And now here I am.
I just turned 61.
And I feel like I'm goingthrough a new peak, or maybe
(04:57):
this is the peak.
So you know, you're alwaysgrowing and you're always
changing and the possibilitiesare endless, as long as you, you
know, stay involved and try to.
You know work toward thegreater good.
I think that's what's important.
Kim Hart (05:12):
I love that and I think that age is beautiful.
I remember people saying likewhen I got older, I wanted to
keep my wisdom, but I wish mybody was younger and I'm like
whatever, yeah, yeah.
And now I'm like I totallyagree with that.
I love that you're taking onmentoring.
That's such an important thingfor women who want to lead.
(05:35):
What advice are you givingwomen in you know, who are up
and coming right now, in thisenvironment, at this time?
What?
What are some of the keymessages that you're helping
with?
Senator Urso (05:47):
Well, with mentoring, you know I've
mentored some young women and atfirst blush I would meet them
and typically I will mentorwomen who are becoming executive
directors or taking onleadership roles in
organizations, and occasionallyI'll come across and I'll say
you know, you seem like you haveeverything together.
What can I do for you?
(06:08):
And they're like oh no, Ireally don't.
And it's, you know, a matter ofhow to maintain your
self-confidence, to trust yourinstincts.
Trusting your instincts issomething that it took me a long
time to learn, that.
I can't tell you how many timesalong the way my gut was
(06:29):
telling me something and I wasignoring that, and I don't
ignore that anymore.
And I think that, generallyspeaking, you know we have our
experience.
Our education has given usthose skills that we can
determine what's right andwhat's wrong, and I think it's
really important to listen tothat and, of course, never stop
(06:53):
learning.
Be open to every perspective.
You know not to be closed tojust yours, but somebody you
might not agree with or youdon't think you're going to
agree with their perspective,and at the end of a conversation
you may not, but you still willlearn something from why they
feel the way they feel, andthere's value in that, and I
(07:15):
think those are the importantthings, as you're, you know,
coming up in your career and,you know, want to have a
positive experience and be arole model for others.
Kim Hart (07:27):
That's great, following your intuition.
It's when you don't, when Idon't, I'm like you know what
you were right, right.
So I think that that's trustingGreat point.
April Haberman (07:39):
Yeah, trust your instinct.
It made me, you know, rewind 20years, 30 years, 40 years ago,
when I was early in my careerwith, to your point, kim and
Senator Erso, not following thatinstinct, and I think a lot of
it comes back to self doubt andquestioning your capability and
(08:02):
that comparison.
Am I good enough?
We're really good at doing thatas women, and I think
oftentimes that holds us backfrom taking that next step,
putting our name in the hat fora new position.
And it's important to havewomen in leadership roles, and
(08:23):
I'm wondering what your opinionis with that, senator Erso.
When women step into leadershiproles, it matters.
So can you expand on that alittle bit?
as well, why?
Why do you think that thatmatters?
Senator Urso (08:41):
Well, just, I wanted to go back first and I'll
talk about that to somethingthat you made me think about is
the imposter syndrome that westruggle throughout our careers
and this was something thatreally for my entire career
there probably been times I'mlike you know people are going
to figure out that I'm reallynot that good and I've been
(09:02):
certainly reinforced many timesduring my career, but I have
fallen into that trap ofdoubting myself, have overcome
(09:27):
that at some point.
The self-doubt that sets inwhen you're going through the
transition can be reallydebilitating.
It's just one of those thingsthat, once again, you have to
overcome that.
So, with women in leadership,to get to that point, I mean we
have a unique perspective, right.
I mean where the sex that candeliver babies, right, where we
(09:49):
have that as unique to us, thenurturing aspect, the hormones
that are associated with thatoxytocin, right, and things that
give us that level ofcompassion, empathy, ability to
really have a warmth.
And perhaps you'd say, oh, Iknow plenty of women who are
(10:09):
cold.
Yeah, I'm sure, because they're.
You know they have to be toughin certain scenarios, but I
think you know those drivers areunique to us and also just that
.
Well, I hope that things arechanging as the generations, the
new generations, are coming up.
But as a baby boomer, I had todeal with, you know, when sexual
(10:35):
harassment was okay in theworkplace and was, you know,
quite prevalent.
And when you know women wereoverlooked and we were
considered inferior.
And so you develop, you knowyou might put up a wall in some
cases, but you also get somecalluses Right and you, as you
(10:55):
continue forward, you have astrength about you.
There are challenges for women,of course, that I think men are
not judged similarly.
For example, your likability,right, how often do we talk
about a man's likability, butwhen it's a woman in a
(11:16):
leadership position, is shelikable?
Well, there's just somethingabout her that I don't like,
like or I can't quite put myfinger on, and we tend to be
judged, you know, based on thoseaspects of our personality that
may be rather superficial,obviously, I think.
Still, we're judged byappearance, you know, and
(11:39):
perhaps more harshly so we haveto, as women leaders.
As we're coming up as womenleaders, we're bringing those
types of experiences andbreaking those barriers, and so
I think that's really important,a motivator for having more
(11:59):
women in leadership positions,more women in elected positions
and, you know, bringing those,those types of sensibilities
with us.
Kim Hart (12:11):
I love that.
April Haberman (12:13):
Representation matters?
It definitely matters.
Can I come back to somethingthat you said too, and then I'd
love to dive into the menopausebill that you were highly
involved with.
You noted that the self-doubtin this transitional period with
(12:34):
menopause can really have aneffect on women, and we've seen
it with the clients that we workwith and we've seen it with the
clients that we work with.
Brain fog, you know, lack ofsleep, the fatigue from not
sleeping night after night, youknow, week after week, month
after month, it begins to playgames on you, especially when
(13:05):
you have been performing at yourpeak.
You know, high level, you'requick to the punch and then all
of a sudden, menopause symptomskick in and you have that
self-doubt.
We see that 14% of women don'tput their name in the hat for a
promotion, based on our data.
You know that might look alittle bit different depending
on the report that you'rereading, but it's a significant
amount of women and I believethat that percentage is higher
because there's still stigma andshame associated with menopause
(13:28):
and therefore the data isn'treal.
Women aren't talking aboutmenopause.
So how many more are notputting their name in the ocean
and just not talking about it?
Right, it's the silent ceiling,so to speak, and I think that's
one of the reasons why youadvocated for this menopause
(13:50):
legislation.
So I'd love to shift gears andtalk a little bit more about
that.
Rhode Island became the firststate in the nation to pass a
law requiring employers toprovide menopause support,
thanks to your leadership.
So thank you for that.
Before we move on, tell us whythat was important for you
(14:13):
personally and professionally,sure, so personally, I went
through, you know, quite achallenge once I entered the
menopause transition.
Senator Urso (14:27):
It took me a while to realize and I feel now like
why didn't I realize what wasgoing on with me?
I should have known, but itcomes on so subtly, right.
And then it's just a gradualprogression and of course,
you're dealing with the anxiety,the self-doubt, the panic.
You don't know if maybe you'resick, right um.
(14:48):
And after the first few yearsof that, I was asking my doctor.
You know, I need some support,something's going on.
And I thought I knew hormone,menopausal hormone therapy would
help me, but my first doctorjust laughed at me when I
suggested it.
And after the compounding of thesleeplessness, the cardiac
(15:13):
symptoms night after night, andthe brain fog that was coming
from it, my inability toconcentrate, but also the
irritability that was comingfrom it my inability to
concentrate, but also theirritability I had gotten to a
point where I didn't think Icould function in my job anymore
(15:34):
and I almost quit my job.
I actually did quit my job, butthankfully it was early March
2020.
And the pandemic saved me.
I'd given my boss 30 daysnotice.
He's the chairman of our board,of my organization, and he was,
like you know, I could tell hewas like, why, like what reason
would you have for this?
And I came up with some reasonand then, a couple of weeks into
(15:58):
the 30 days, we had to shutdown the museum I was running a
museum at the time and layeverybody off and I said you
know what?
I think I'll just stay putbecause I knew I could go to
work alone and during that timeI was able to get the treatment
I needed.
But that experience over I mean, it was really about seven
years for me led me to trying tofind information, supportive
(16:24):
information, and at the time inthe United States I found that
to be limited.
So I turned to the UK, ofcourse, which was far more
progressive and open in thisarea, and I started to read
Menopause Matters newsletter andthey were tackling the subject
(16:44):
of menopause in the workplacequite aggressively and I hadn't
to my board members, many ofwhom were men, and try to
(17:05):
explain, you know, thesesymptoms I was having.
So when I earned a seat in theSenate, I knew that this was an
area I really wanted to champion.
And you know, I started to havethose conversations and I knew
I would have to be verystrategic about it, because I
(17:25):
had asked one of the othersenators how can I find out what
types of legislation or, youknow, initiatives had been
proposed surrounding menopause,and she said I've never heard
the word menopause in thischamber and she'd been a senator
for quite a while.
So I said, ok, it's going totake some bravery, I'm going to
(17:50):
have to really open up on thisand I'm going to have to face my
male colleagues, but I think,with the proper strategy and
taking the time to educate them,that I can make progress in
this area.
Frankly, I wasn't sure I couldget a bill passed in the first
year, and so I really wasthoughtful about it and how I
(18:13):
navigated the chamber and builtthe relationships that it
required, but it no longer is anissue for me as an employee.
Right, that ship has sailed,although I still use menopausal
hormone therapy, because when I,when I stop using it, I can see
like my hot flashes, my nightsweats still come back.
(18:35):
So as long as it's safe for meto be on it, I'll continue to
take advantage of that.
But it's really for thegenerations after right, it's
for the Gen Xers, who arebecoming more vocal, and the
millennials, who are going todemand this support, and so
really, that's where I hopewe'll see the impact, and that's
(18:57):
really my motivation for takingthis on.
It came from my personalchallenges and I knew I wasn't
alone once I started to lookinto it, so you're not alone.
April Haberman (19:11):
You're in company of thousands and
thousands of others that areliterally going through the same
struggle.
I mean, I know Kim has her ownstory, I have my own story.
Um, thankfully, I had a veryflexible working environment at
the time, like you did, when Iwas struggling through those
(19:33):
symptoms or I would have quit myjob as well.
Kim quit her job, so she is theone in 10 that quit her job due
to menopause symptoms, the onein 10 that quit her job due to
menopause symptoms.
And I think it comes back towhat you mentioned we're not
educating where the cultureisn't a safe culture yet, where
(19:55):
we have educated and trainedenough everyone, across all
levels of the organization, toreally understand what menopause
is and what it isn't, and tocreate those environments where
women can say, hey, I'm having ahot flash or I'm having
(20:17):
challenges and it's temporary, Ineed to get the help to
alleviate need, or to step outof the room to grab a cold sip
(20:46):
of water, or maybe to just stepoutside for a moment, right,
until we can get the help thatwe need.
So speak to us a little bitmore about the bill itself,
because I think there are somethat would say we don't need
this legislation.
Some might say that it setswomen up for discrimination.
(21:09):
If we're saying we've got up to34 plus symptoms that we can
experience, that might positionus as lesser than, or incapable
or less productive.
You fill in the blanks.
So what would you say to thosethat are questioning the
legislation?
Senator Urso (21:29):
Well, you know, I felt that women's voices around
the world on this issue now havebecome quite loud.
And for people who say, youknow, where did this come from?
Did this come out of left field?
No, Laurie Urso didn't inventthis and I've told people that.
If you, you know particularlypeople who have doubts, if you
(21:53):
simply Google menopauseworkplace and hit the news link,
you'd be amazed at how far andwide this discussion is
internationally.
And I've noticed, even just inthe past few weeks, as I've been
, you know, tracking the mediaresponse.
New Zealand, Kenya, Ghana,Indonesia, India, Canada,
(22:19):
European countries women arebecoming very vocal about this
and need support in this area.
And in Rhode Island in my state,well, we know, I think
nationally, that the fastestgrowing segment of the workforce
is women over 40, roughlyspeaking.
Rhode Island has an olderworkforce.
(22:40):
Our worker is older.
Our average worker is olderthan the national average and
when you look at the data on ourworkforce, you can extrapolate
that more than 11% of all peopleof working age in the state of
Rhode Island are women betweenthe ages of 45 and 59.
(23:01):
Are women between the ages of45 and 59.
Because of lower birth ratesover a number of decades, there
are fewer workers on the youngend and we keep hearing about
worker shortages.
So it's a lot less costly toretain your talent than to try
to replace and recruit andretrain, and so women in that
(23:26):
demographic have a level ofexperience that's of value to
their teams.
And, as you were saying, thiscan be a very temporary period
of life.
But because of the challengeand perhaps lack of information,
as I said, the menopausetransition comes on very
(23:47):
gradually.
You may not know what's hittingyou, you may think you have
another illness, You're perhapsgetting misdiagnosed, you might
leave the workforce and when youfinally have the treatment you
need or come to the other sideof this, you're like, hey, what
happened?
I blew up my career, everythingI worked for, and now it's
(24:10):
harder to get hired becauseyou're fighting other barriers.
So that's the idea is it's amodicum of support that we're
talking about here and justhelping women get through this
period and remain in theirpositions so that they can
achieve at their highest levels,they can attain a higher pay
(24:33):
grade and, of course, mostimportantly, better prepare for
retirement.
And that's really what my goalis with this legislation is that
we are preserving our workforcein Rhode Island.
Now, Rhode Island, as you know,is the smallest state.
It's very small and often it'sa test market for things like
(24:55):
silently.
We don't always know thatmanufacturers are putting
products into the Rhode Islandmarket as a test, because it's a
very unique.
You know geography and we can.
You know they can test outdifferent products on a small
scale and I think it's the samewith this legislation as we can
(25:16):
see on a smaller scale how itwill play out in the workforce,
what the employers need.
In fact, I'm meeting the weekafter next with our Department
of Labor and Training so that Ican match them up with the
resources that are available foremployers, so that they have
(25:37):
that information at the readyand they can provide that.
Because you know it's one thingto pass the legislation, but
then you can't just leave allthe employers high and dry.
So I really want to be part ofmaking those connections and
making sure that the employershave the tools they need to be
resourceful, you know, to be aresource for their employees, to
(26:00):
understand what their employees, who may be at this period in
their life, are going throughand how to keep them on the job
and help them to succeed attheir highest levels.
And I think if there's anunknown, you know something
that's new may always be scaryor people may be hesitant or
(26:21):
resistant, but I think in timeemployers will see it's not a
big deal and they'll have ahappier workforce, a healthier
workforce and a workforce that'smore loyal to them because they
stepped up and supported them,and that's what I'm looking for
long term.
Kim Hart (26:39):
There's lots of data that says that employees want to
stay when they're treated well.
And the demographic issue youmentioned is is is a problem for
Rhode Island, but it's going tobe a problem everywhere.
Yes, do you see Rhode Island'smove on this model for other
states?
And what?
What do you think it would taketo make menopausal support sort
(27:02):
of a national standard, justlike the UK?
Senator Urso (27:04):
just has right.
Yeah, I know it's becoming amodel because I'm on Zoom calls
quite often with other statesthat are asking me okay, how do
we get this through?
So you know, the first thingabout it is I worked with an
attorney in our legislativecouncil, michelle Kazarian, who
(27:25):
was very helpful, and of course,I had, you know, maybe a bigger
idea in mind, that I was goingto create this new law, and you
know it was going to be whatever, just recraft something new.
And she said you know why don'twe work within an existing
framework that we have, and inour case, it's our fair
(27:47):
employment practices law?
She said we already have theframework, we just need to add a
few things.
It would be very simple and bydoing that we'll be less
vulnerable to, as the bill makesits way through the process, to
people trying to amend the billsubtract from the bill.
So that is, I think, the firstlesson that the other states are
(28:11):
taking from my experience isthey're looking at what is in
the existing framework thatsimply needs to be tweaked to
make this change in their states, and others might not call it
fair employment practices.
It could be a civil rights law,it could be other types of
workplace discrimination, butfor us, we simply added
(28:34):
menopause and menopause-relatedconditions to what already
protects women in pregnancy andduring breastfeeding, and those
types of accommodations.
And it makes sense, right,because the menopause transition
is just on the other end of thearc of what leads us to be able
to get pregnant and bearchildren.
(28:55):
So it's part of that same, youknow, aspect of life that's
unique to women, and I reallythink that was great advice and
that was, you know, the firststep towards success was
approaching it that way, and soI think that's where states can
(29:15):
perhaps be most effective inintroducing it into their state.
April Haberman (29:47):
Right, yeah, and neither did Medovia.
I mean, we've had aconversation, in several
conversations, senator Urso, andwhen Medovia launched our
menopause in the workplaceprogramming, we took lessons
from the UK rather thanreinventing the wheel, and
that's what we're talking abouthere.
You don't have to start atground zero.
There's an easier point ofentry, and I love that you're
sharing that knowledge withother states, because we hope to
see legislation change in all50 states, frankly and it starts
with education.
I'm hearing Educate, educate,educate Not only your
constituents, but in theworkplace as well.
So it starts with you and yourcolleagues and trickles out to
(30:13):
the workplace, and I thinkwithout that education and
awareness, you know, justpassing a legislative bill isn't
as effective as it possiblycould be.
That's an ongoing educationthat needs to happen, and I also
think that this bill really I'mat a loss for words for here I
(30:41):
want to say something, but Iwant to say it differently but
it really is a launchpad.
I'll call it.
It's a spark that we can fan tobegin the conversation in the
workplace, because without it itmight not happen.
Let's face it, organizationsare not anxious to talk about
(31:03):
menopause in the workplace, andthis is really a spark that
starts that conversation, ratherthan handcuffs, if you will.
I don't see this bill ashandcuffs and I think it's
perspective on how people cancan view this.
We view it as something that'ssensational, fantastic.
(31:24):
It's going to spark thatconversation and I love that you
are providing resources on theback end as well.
To say it's not hard.
We're not asking for you tospend millions of dollars to
implement menopause programmingin the workplace.
There's simple changes thatthey can implement that can make
(31:47):
a huge difference in theworkplace, and we talked a
couple weeks ago about the ISO45,010, the international
standard that's getting ready tobe released sometime next year.
Adobe has been highly involvedwith that and we're very much
looking forward to releasingthat.
That's a free document that'sgoing to be out there for any
(32:07):
employer to download.
It's not something we want toread, you know, at midnight
because it's a lengthy document,but the resources are there.
There are free resources thatare available all over the place
, and there are organizationslike Madobia and others that are
helping organizations to comealong.
(32:28):
So thank you again for the workthat you're doing.
I'm wondering what feedbackyou've heard, just generally
speaking.
What feedback are you hearingfrom businesses, from women's
health advocates across thenation.
What's the feedback been?
Senator Urso (32:46):
I mean generally very positive.
There have been many articlesnationwide that have, you know,
obviously applauded the conceptof what we're doing.
There have been some that arejust quite factual, that are
resources for employers.
(33:07):
Rhode Island has passed thisnew law.
Here's some ideas that youshould this type of information
readily available, because Ithink the narrative is that this
(33:33):
will sort of propel change inother states and so other states
should perhaps be prepared.
I haven't heard much to thenegative.
You know, occasionally I'llhear a comment.
There was one opinion piecethat was released that was, you
(33:54):
know, kind of questioned whetherI was classifying menopause as
a disability.
And you know, all press is goodpress.
I'm glad everybody's writingand it's fine to hear all
perspectives, but there isnothing in the legislation that
we pass that even uses the worddisability.
(34:16):
So we're certainly notclassifying or categorizing
menopause as a disability, whereit's a part of life, a normal
part of life.
That's what we want it to berecognized as.
We want to make sure that womencan discuss it without feeling
they'll be discriminated in theworkplace, and that's one of the
(34:37):
protections that's provided inthe bill.
And look, you know, we're inwork a third of our lives.
I mean, I'm in work every dayduring the day, so this is an
important part of our day andwe're interacting with more
people perhaps than we do athome, and you know, we just want
to feel supported through aperiod in our life, just like if
(35:01):
we were trying to have a babyor if we'd become pregnant.
Our employers know that theyprobably would consider if we
had a dangerous job, that they'dwant to protect us in our state
of pregnancy, that they're notdiscriminating against us for
(35:21):
that, knowing that we'll needfamily leave following the
pregnancy, which some statesprovide or some employers
provide and that perhaps, ifwe're breastfeeding, we need
accommodations.
People aren't discriminatingagainst women because of that
and we're not treating them likethey're disabled.
(35:41):
So it's the same thing with themenopause transition we're not
suggesting it's a disability,nor does this legislation treat
it that way.
Kim Hart (35:52):
I love that description.
That's really, that's reallygreat.
That really helps clarify whythis isn't a discrimination
protection that you know.
This is that you treateverybody equally and how, and
actually how you'd want to betreated in those situations,
right.
April Haberman (36:08):
And it sounds like mostly the feedback has
been positive.
So that's good to hear.
You know we often aftertraining sessions, we have a lot
of men that attend the sessionsas well as women, and that's
important that everyone iseducated and understands
(36:30):
menopause.
But you know we often have themost questions after our
sessions from males who truly,for the first time, understand
menopause.
You know it's beyond the imageof an old woman fanning herself.
It goes much, much deeper thanthat and they're thankful for
(36:55):
this education and thatinformation because they do
understand it and they trulywant to support and help
employees, colleagues and theirspouses and partners.
You know we did a session acouple months colleagues and
their spouses and partners.
You know we did a session acouple months ago and the line
after the session to askquestions was all men.
(37:15):
Yeah, we had questions abouttheir partners and their spouses
and how can I help, and thelight bulb went off.
So again, I think this is thatconduit to a greater support
system and normalizing theconversation and helping people
to understand that this isnormal, it's not a disability to
(37:36):
your point, and it doesn't takemuch to accommodate an employee
.
And why wouldn't you as anorganization?
Because it benefits you as faras the employee.
There's a huge business case tobe made and this isn't the
platform for that today, but weall know that there's a return
(38:02):
on the investment there inretaining that talent, as you
mentioned, Senator Urso, andemployees are more productive
when they have the support thatthey need.
So, and employees are moreproductive when they have the
support that they need.
And if we don't have to see five, six, seven, eight healthcare
physicians to get the answersthat we need to help with
symptoms, healthcare support isin place right.
That saves an organizationmoney on their healthcare costs.
So it's a broader picture thatyou're painting here.
(38:27):
I think you you have taken, ifI can just say, the first few
brushstrokes on this canvas tocreate this beautiful picture,
and we are so thankful for that.
Our time is coming to an end,but I want to just ask you if
there's anything that you wouldlike to share with our listeners
(38:48):
, if you would like to say toorganizations before we sign off
is there anything we haven'ttalked about that you really
have a burning desire to say?
You know what they need to knowthis?
Senator Urso (39:01):
Yeah, I don't know , but I would just say that, you
know, first of all, we have tostop the narrative of she's
crazy OK, that's a big one, andthat's a big one in the
workplace.
She's not crazy, she's justgoing through a natural
transition in life and we needto support her.
And I would say that especiallyto women.
(39:23):
Ok, my experience is that, youknow, women can be harsh, women
can be negative.
We need to uplift each otherand stop being part of that
narrative just to impress otherpeople or, you know, join in a
chorus of negativity.
I think that's really important, I know.
(39:45):
You know, when I went throughmy struggles, some women, like,
turned away from me somefriendships, and after the fact
I thought I'm sure that personmust have gone through what I
went through.
Where was the compassion, youknow?
So I think that's reallyimportant at work and just in
life that we, you know, continueto support each other, empower
(40:08):
each other, help each otherthrough a challenging time, and
I just think that will make allthe difference for all of us.
Kim Hart (40:17):
Really, I love that.
So where can people find youand this bill and the work that
you're doing?
I'm sure that if you want to,oh, no go ahead, please, okay.
Senator Urso (40:37):
Well, if you want to look up the bill, the website
rilegislaturegov leads you to aplatform.
You can go to bills and lawsand just type in number 361.
This is Senate Bill 361.
So if you'd like to read thebill, you can find it there.
I believe my bio and a link tomy email is on the Rhode Island
Legislature website.
(40:57):
You can connect with me thereand perhaps my office number is
on there.
People are finding me, so it'snot that hard yeah.
Kim Hart (41:09):
I have a feeling you're not done with this.
April Haberman (41:13):
I have a feeling you're going to have a lot more
in the future.
Kim Hart (41:16):
You are going to take some leadership space in this,
and it's amazing.
Well, I'm happy to.
Senator Urso (41:21):
Yeah, I think it's really important and I know, as
I said, I learned through mydiscovery that I'm not alone in
this.
This is a dialogue that isgoing on around the world and
I'm happy to contribute to thegreater knowledge on this
subject, the dialogue andhelping women to feel
(41:44):
comfortable speaking about itand helping employers to
participate in a way that youknow is beneficial to them as
well as their workforce.
April Haberman (41:55):
So good, you're leaving a legacy, so thank you.
Yeah, you are.
You know, we ask every guest,before we sign off, what the
best piece of advice you've everreceived or given has been.
So I'm going to ask you thatsame question before we sign off
.
Senator Urso (42:13):
Probably the advice I've used most was during
a workshop on negotiation wherethey said before you begin a
negotiation, think verycarefully about what you think
the position of the other sideis and I alluded to that even
earlier and conversing withpeople that perhaps don't agree
(42:34):
with you what's their motivation, or what do you imagine is
their motivation, what do youthink is their perspective,
what's driving them?
And I think that's reallyimportant advice.
I certainly have used thatthroughout my career.
I learned it when I wasvolunteering for the League of
Women Voters, actually probably40 years ago, and I've always
(42:55):
held on to that.
So I would just encourage youto think about the other
person's perspective and whatyou know, their motivations and
what their motivations and whattheir experience may be, and
take that to heart.
April Haberman (43:08):
Yeah, it's the curiosity piece right.
Curiosity and learning andgrowing and understanding and
having compassion.
That's great.
Well, thank you for taking thetime once again to be here with
us today.
We're looking forward to moreconversations to come on this
topic, but until we meet again,listeners, go have a joy in the
(43:31):
journey, take care.
Senator Urso (43:35):
Thank you very much.
April Haberman (43:38):
Thank you for listening to the Medovia
menopause podcast.
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up.
Subscribe for future episodes,leave a review and share this
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at medoviacom.
That's M-I-D-O-V-I-A dot com.
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