December 3, 2025 • 40 mins
Tired of hearing that retirement means retreat? We sit down with Lustre co-founders Erica Baird and Karen Wagner to flip that script and show how midlife can be a launchpad for purpose, community, and power. They walked away from high-profile careers, hit the same identity shock so many of us feel, and built a modern space where women design what comes next with confidence and style.
We dig into the big shifts that happen when the calendar clears and the title disappears, and why a yes-first mindset can turn uncertainty into momentum. Erica and Karen share a practical framework to treat reinvention like real work: audit what lit you up, map the skills you still want to use, and craft a plan that fits a 20 to 30 year runway. We talk about building community on purpose, especially for introverts who want depth over noise, and we offer simple scripts to answer “What are you doing now?” with clarity and pride.
Ageism shows up in subtle and loud ways, so we name it and counter it with visibility, advocacy, and action. You’ll hear how Lustre’s platform connects thousands of women through thoughtful content, interactive expert sessions on health, money, and longevity, a weekly news briefing, and a member directory that sparks real-world meetups. The stories will move you: a marketer who returned to playwriting and made it to Broadway, a finance executive who chased a lifelong dream to fly and now circles the globe.
If you’ve been standing in that cold hallway between what ended and what’s next, this conversation hands you the handle: say yes, find your people, and let purpose steer the next chapter. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs this reframe, and leave a review to help more women retire with attitude.
Erica Baird is a retired lawyer with a career spanning four decades. She was the first woman partner in the General Counsel’s Office of her then Big 6 accounting firm, working in the US and abroad on some of the major financial issues of the day. Erica is a graduate of Carnegie Mellon University and New York University School of Law. Erica has a daughter and lives with her husband in New York City.
Karen E. Wagner was the first woman litigation partner at her global law firm in New York City. She practiced law for forty years, litigating cases involving domestic and international debt, sovereign rights and insolvency. After she retired, she co-founded Lustre, a platform advocating for retired professional women. Karen graduated from the University of Pennsylvania and New York University School of Law. Karen is married, has two wonderful children and lives in New York with her husband.
Website: https://lustre.net
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MiDOViA is dedicated to changing the narrative about menopause by educating, raising awareness & supporting women in this stage of life, both at home and in the workplace. Visit midovia.com to learn more.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
(00:03):
trusted source for informationabout menopause and midlife.
Join us each episode as we havegreat conversations with great
people.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back everyone to the Menopause
Podcast, the space where werewrite the story of midlife,
one honest conversation at thetime.
And today we're diving into atopic that nearly every woman
thinks about, but rarely talksabout it openly.
What comes next?
What does purpose, identity, andcontribution look like after
(00:38):
decades of building a career,raising families, and caring for
others?
And so today we are joined bythe brilliant co-founders of
Luster, Erica Baird and KarenWagner.
They are former seniorexecutives who walked away from
enormous careers in law andfinance only to discover that
retirement or what societythinks retirement should look
(00:58):
like didn't fit.
So they set out to redefine it.
And through Luster, they'vebuilt a bold, modern, stylish
community for women ready tostep into their next chapter
with confidence, attitude, andconnection.
And they're changing thenarrative about what it means to
age with purpose, curiosity, andpower.
Oh, Erica and Karen, thank youso much for being here.
(01:19):
We've admired how you've carvedout this incredible space for
women who aren't done, who wantmore, and want to evolve.
And your mission resonatesdeeply with our listeners.
So thank you.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Thank you.
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
I love having two people on because um April and I
always go at this together.
So it's fun to have four of ustoday.
Listen, your tagline is retirewith attitude, and it's bold and
refreshing.
So what does that attitude looklike for today's midlife and
beyond women?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
So uh we came up with that because uh it really
reflects how we uh we and thewomen that are part of this
community think about thefuture, right?
It it is a downer experience toretire for most of us.
I mean, there are some luckypeople that think, oh yay, I'm
retired, but for most of us,it's kind of a shock to our
(02:15):
system.
And so the question is how onceonce you absorb that shock,
shock and you kind of get overthat hump, how are you going to
approach the next 20 or 30, asyou said, decades of your life?
Yeah.
And so what we mean by thatreally is it's a just a yes
attitude.
You know, it's I'm not old, I'mnot done, I'm not invisible, I
(02:39):
refuse to let people categorizeme or stereotype me like that.
And I'm going to find a way tobe all the things that I want to
be and do all the things that Iwant to do.
So it's it's kind of a takecontrol attitude, saying, I I
can do this, I can do this.
Yes, I can.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
A lot of self-talk, right?
Um, and and building ourselvesup.
I I'm so excited for thisconversation because I just had
a similar conversation with afriend yesterday who is in this
place who um, when I said, Whatdo you want?
did not have an answer.
And Kim and I find that all thetime.
(03:19):
You know, I've been caring forpeople my whole life.
I had my career and I'm ready toretire, but I don't know what I
want.
I don't know what I need.
I don't know what I want.
I don't know what's next.
Um, so I love what you're doing.
And and I would say, um, youknow, midlife can sometimes feel
like it's this um middle place,it's this almost like an
(03:42):
earthquake, um, identityearthquake, so to speak.
And I'm wondering if you canshare with our listeners what
some of the biggest shifts arethat you see women experiencing
as they think about what's nextin their lives.
What are those big shifts?
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Well, some of the shifts are the ones you've
alluded to.
Often at the time that you'reretiring, you're perceived as
getting older.
Your children, if you have had afamily, are growing up and they
don't need you anymoreconstantly.
Your job is disappearing, yourstructure for low these many
years is gone.
What next?
(04:18):
And a lot of people come intothis with a feeling of shock,
like, okay, well, what's what amI doing?
Where am I going?
I can't see the future.
I don't know what's happening.
So, what we're trying to tellwomen is actually you have an
amazing foundation upon which tobuild.
It's not like when you wereentering the workforce when you
(04:41):
were also being revolutionaryand insisting on entering this
place where women hadn't beenwelcome.
You did a great job then, butyou didn't know anything then.
Now you know everything.
So now you have a foundation andyou can build on it.
Now you haven't spent much timethinking about yourself and what
you're going to do becauseyou've been working full-time
(05:01):
and raising your children andlooking after your parents and
everything else.
So you need to take some timeand think and start thinking
what did you like about what youdid?
What did you not like?
What kind of passion do youhave?
Where do you think you mightplay a role?
And take time.
You've earned the time to thinkabout it.
So take time and think.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, without filling that space, right?
I feel like um oftentimes wejump from one thing to the next
to fill space and to feel busybecause it can be a little bit
frightening, depressing.
I mean, you fill in the blankwith the additives to retire and
not have the next thing.
And it does remind me of um theI'm a very visual person.
(05:45):
It reminds me of being in ahallway and one door is closed.
Both doors are actually closed.
So you've walked through a doorthat is closed and you're
standing in the middle of ahallway.
It can feel cold, it can feelempty, it can feel lonely
because there's not another dooropening for you immediately.
And I'm wondering how you, withyour organization, help women to
(06:10):
differentiate that, you know,end of the job here and the
beginning of a new purpose here.
So you reference that a littlebit, Karen, and asking those
questions and finding the spaceand finding the quiet and really
um having that self-reflection.
But what other tips can you givewomen, tangible tips to say this
is what you should do?
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Well, I just to follow up on that, I think April
for second, the I theinteresting part about pausing,
right?
The first thing that we say isyou're not alone.
Because in that hallway, youfeel really alone, and that
you're the only person in theworld that is going through this
sense of loss, this mourningperiod of fabulous loss, like
(06:56):
you've never experienced before.
The second thing is thatnotwithstanding the fact that
you know you have this thesefoundational skills, right,
you've never really had toexercise them in certain kinds
of ways.
You've never had to build acommunity on your own because
you had school and then you hadwork, you know, then you had
your family's friends.
(07:17):
I mean, you you never really hadto do all the things that now
you may have to do on your own.
So, what we basically say is tofollow up on what Karen said,
uh, is uh you know that you'regonna miss community.
I mean, let's just assume thatyou're gonna miss community.
Tell yourself you miss yourcommunity, you miss your work
(07:38):
community, and think about howyou're gonna go about uh uh
finding a new community.
You're not gonna replicate theold one, right?
But what did you like most aboutit?
Did you like that it wasmulti-generational?
Did you like that it was, youknow, out and about?
Did you like the conversations?
Do you want it to be centeredaround uh you know, new
(08:00):
interests?
I mean, I we tell a story thatum uh Karen has one story and I
have another, but I reallywanted to pursue interior
design.
I like visual stuff too, and soI thought, oh, I'll take
classes.
And I, because everything I didwas at night after work, I
signed up for classes at nineo'clock at night at some New
(08:23):
York art school, and you know,everybody in that class is 17.
Right.
unknown (08:31):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
I mean, there's nobody that I wanted to meet.
My people were not gonna betaking classes at nine o'clock
on a weekday night, and so Itook the same exact class during
the day, and I have three newfriends, some of whom I travel
around the world with.
So it you have to, I think ourmessage at Luster is just one
practical example.
(08:52):
You have to think through whereare your people, not just where
are the people, you know.
This is a class of poli sci thatI might be interested in, but
are my people going to go tothat location?
Are they gonna be there?
Are they gonna be virtual?
Do I really want a virtualexperience, or am I looking to
meet people to go out to forcoffee with?
(09:14):
And luster is another thing.
I mean, our people are gettingtogether on luster, finding each
other in their communities andgetting together because they
are having trouble finding womenwho have dispersed.
I guess is the right way to saythat, right?
We all worked, we all were youcould find you, I'd call, you
(09:35):
know, your headquarters and Icould find you now where are
you?
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (09:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah.
And I think um you talk aboutlike what what trying to
identify what you want.
And April referred to that for asecond.
Like, we've never askedourselves that.
We've never asked ourselveslike, what do we want and how do
I go get that?
And that seems so scary forsomething that you've never had
(10:00):
to do before.
And you and yet everyone knowsthat community is important for
longevity.
Um, how do you how do you guidepeople um to f figure out what
it is that they want and how notto, you know, be that person
that stereotypical person whoturns on the TV and that's what
they do all day.
(10:22):
Because that's easier.
That's easier about retirement,right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
How do you help them figure outwhat they want and then how to
take some action on that?
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Well, oddly enough, one way we found to be useful
was to say, think about it asyour job.
Think about it as work.
You've been working for 40 or 50years, whatever it is.
You know how to work.
You know you have to sit down,maybe write something as we did
on a piece of legal pad.
(10:52):
Think about what you reallywant.
It's regard this time as work.
Don't regard it as umself-absorption or um planning
to do something entertaining orwithout purpose.
It's work.
What is it that you would liketo do now for 30 years in the
future?
And by the way, that's anotherthing that a lot of people don't
realize.
(11:12):
Our runways are long.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Yes, you have to have somethought involved in what you
want to do.
For most of us, also, you needpurpose.
Filling your time is notpurposeful.
What is purposeful is thinkingabout doing something that you
want to do or that you thinkother people would like you to
(11:33):
do as long as you want to do ittoo.
And think about how your life isgoing to evolve and how you want
to make it work for you.
And uh what we did, uh luckilywe were we knew each other, so
we did it together.
We found an office.
And we went to the office and wesat in the office and we said,
okay, this is our job today.
(11:53):
We're gonna write this list,we're gonna think, what do we
like about what we want to do?
What did we not like?
How are we gonna get community?
Who do we know that we couldcommune with?
And we really were veryanalytical about it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
I love that you treated it like a job.
Um, I'm an Enneagram one, so Ithat's where I go.
Lists and plans and lists.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Make it to the airplane very early, just so you
know.
I mean that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
You know, but I mean, in all honesty, though, as
we're we're talking throughthis, it's not so easy for some
people.
Even if you are very successfulin your career and you're
retiring, not everyone has thatpersonality.
Um, jobs are different, rolesare different, right?
Maybe you didn't lead a team of50 people, maybe you weren't
(12:47):
C-suite, maybe you preferredbeing in a lab right all day.
And and that's successful, butnow I have this identity crisis
where I don't have work and I'mnot an outgoing person.
I kind of prefer to be alone.
It can be kind of scary when wesay um treat it like a full-time
job, right?
I think it could be a little bitoverwhelming.
(13:09):
So how how do you how do weencourage women to come out of
that shell, to break out of thatshell?
And it's really um taking thatlittle fear monger and and
giving it a tap off theshoulder, right?
Like you're not welcome here.
I don't need you right now.
I don't need you right now.
Thank you for that, but I don'tneed you right now.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
I think that there's some things that are more
important than others, right?
On in that tap on the shoulder.
I think it's as Kim said, weknow that community is important
for longevity.
We know that somebody that wantsto be in the lab all day in a re
whatever the retirement lablooks like is probably not going
(13:54):
to thrive over the years as muchas a person that has people
around.
So I think that the uh thenotion of getting out right of
whatever it is that your cocoonis, if you're that kind of
person.
However, it doesn't mean youhave to go to a cocktail party
every night or go, you can go tothe library and talk to the
(14:16):
librarian.
I mean, you can't it doesn'thave to be noisy activities, it
can be tutoring a kid, you know,at a nonprofit down the street.
It can be literacy stuff, it canbe, it just means finding some
place that you're comfortableuh, but is not uh it's not all
about you.
(14:37):
And that sounds uh kind ofstrange, I guess, but it uh the
minute it's all about you, Ithink you're taking away a big
chunk of what makes the futuresentient and healthy and lively
and interesting and all thethings that we want it to be
going forward.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Well, and I think for women, um, it it's very hard
even when they try to be allabout themselves, right?
They're so used to taking careof other people.
Like I said, I'm I'm watching mymom go through this transition
right now, and she knows whatshe wants, but how to get there
is is feels selfish to her.
And trying to figure out how to,you know, break out of that
(15:20):
feeling of I now can take careof myself and do what I want is
a huge thing.
Um, I guess I'm wondering forpeople that have worked for
decades, what do you what areyou seeing as the hardest part
of loosing loosening or lettinggo of that identity that they
built around work and who theyare around that space?
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
Well, the identity is going to be taken away from
you one way or the other.
And what we have certainlyobserved is that people feel
lost and almost no matter whatthey did before or what they
want to do now, it's veryimportant for them to find
someone to talk to.
Not like a therapist, but afriend who says, and you can go
(16:03):
to your friend and say, I reallymiss my job.
And there are some people whowould say to you, Well, you must
not have had very much of a lifeif you miss your job.
But those those of us who hadjobs that we loved, we do miss
our jobs and we do mourn theloss of them.
And we can talk to each otherabout that.
And somehow we found that thatmakes it more likely that a
(16:28):
woman who's feeling that waywill start feeling like she
could come out of her shell andstart thinking about something
else because she's not alone.
Yeah.
We we tell women like peoplelike that, you're not gonna get
your job back.
You're just not.
And in fact, the great news isin a few months, you're not
gonna want your job back.
(16:48):
That's the great news.
But you are gonna find that thestrengths and skills that the
job gave you are going to leadyou to someplace new.
You can't see it right now, butyou have to work at it.
And once you work at it for awhile, and you might try a few
things and they you might fail.
And you might think you want todo something and you do it, and
(17:09):
it's just horrible, and younever want to do it again.
Fine.
You've been through that.
Keep going, and you will findsomething that will give you
purpose and will give youcommunity at the same time.
And it may be a something quiet,like as as uh Erica says, you
don't have to be at a partyevery night, but you can be with
other people who feel the samepurpose that you do, or at least
(17:31):
a similar purpose, and you cantalk about it and share it, and
you will develop a communitythat way.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
You two are pretty inspirational on that, actually.
How did how did you come to comeup with this realization like
this is what I need to do now inmy post-retirement, or we need
to do now?
I assume that you know you hadsome connection and were
talking, but how did that comeup for you?
SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
You know, it took us a while.
I mean, I I think that um whenwe we had all sorts of ideas of
things we were gonna do when weretired together and age and
stereotypes and ageism got inour way, I think, and that was
(18:16):
stunning to us because wethought, you know, the day
before we were fine.
So that was kind of a shock toour system.
Um but uh really to clarifysomething I said before, I think
we also realized that this was atime to be selfish in a good
(18:37):
way.
I mean, selfish, Kim to talkingabout your mother, I mean, is
not a bad word.
You know, I I think we've madeit into something that's
negative, but it's notnecessarily negative.
It's it's taking care ofyourself is first and foremost,
right?
If you don't do that, you can'ttake care of anybody else.
I mean, we learned that yearsago.
(18:58):
So I think we said to ourselves,look, you know, here's what's
happening to us.
All these uh things that peoplethink we are, we're not.
And yet slowly we started tointernalize them ourselves.
And strong, we're both prettystrong, uh tough kind of women,
(19:20):
but we found ourselves going outin our, you know, somebody say,
What do you do now?
And we'd say, We're reallytired.
You know, it it we startedaccepting all those things, and
they were internalized.
And that's what we startedreally saying.
We need to fight fight backagainst that.
(19:41):
We need we need together to say,no, they're assuming we're one
kind of person, maybe we're new,maybe they've never seen people
like us before, but we're notthat.
SPEAKER_03 (19:52):
That's where retire with attitude comes from, right?
I I love that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
I want to just I want to just stay right here in
this moment uh for just aminute, because I think you
know, we have listeners of allages um that tune in.
And if we're not at thatpost-menopausal stage, the
average post-menopausal stage,right?
You're a little younger, youmight not really know what we're
(20:19):
talking about here.
Um, so when you say ageism andyou know, fitting into that mold
that society says that we're innow, can you unpack that a
little bit more and tell me whatyou mean by that?
What what are what are somewords that come to mind to help
the audience understand what youfaced at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Well, I think that a couple things.
Retired means older, right?
In in in our world, right?
So if you say that you'reretired, you're you're saying
something about your age, andwhen, and society believes that
when you are of a certain age,uh you uh want to or you're
(21:05):
entitled to or you should be anyof those things, right?
Uh taking retreating, I guess isthe best word.
Retreating.
So you should be making room forthe next generation, you're not
relevant anymore, you don't knowwhat you're talking about, the
(21:25):
world has moved on.
Ageism makes assumptions solelyon the basis of your age about
who you are now.
I think Karen, that's that'skind of how I'd say what ageism
is about.
So instead of saying, and Ithink uh my daughter is in her
(21:45):
early 40s, and I think she wouldfind that too in a way.
I don't think it's there it isuh it is unwarranted and unfair
stereotypes and assumptionsbased solely on age.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
And then women have, I mean, just to say it, women
have a double whammy becauseolder men have historically, at
least in our country, beensilver foxes and all those
procreation things that they cando or continue to do, right or
wrong.
Right.
Um so they're kind of the grayhair, silver foxy guy in the
(22:20):
room, and you know, nobody saysI'd like the gray-haired woman
in the room.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and I I mean you're right.
That's that's fair, uh, Erica.
Even in even in your 40s, Ithink we can feel that ageism
begin to to creep up, to creepin.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
And you don't want to.
You want to, I I mean, I want tobelieve that that's a thing of
the past.
And unfortunately it's not.
And you still see it and youstill battle with it.
And how do you um get past that?
And you know I think that'ssomething that's misunderstood
about aging people.
And I think, you know, you'retrying to break those molds of
(23:02):
what's of what is assumed thereof someone that age.
But what do you think besidesthis ageism thing is the most
misunderstood about people whostill feel energized, ambitious,
full of ideas?
What have you found as you'retrying to implement this and
talk to other people in your in,you know, in in in your
(23:23):
community?
SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
Well, one thing we found, which is sort of the flip
side of all this, is that if yougo back and you look at uh
retirement 100 years ago when itwas sort of invented in the
United States, the people whowere retiring were men mostly.
And a lot of them worked in hardphysical labor.
A lot of them had been throughone or two world wars.
(23:46):
It was a very physical thing,and it was tiring, and they were
tired, and their life expectancywas not long.
So retirement was a couple ofyears of hanging out in the
sunshine and having a good timewith your wife and well
deserved.
Now we're coming at retirementand older age from knowledge
(24:09):
economies.
We're coming at it from withouthaving had the physical stress
that that generation did.
We have much more life ahead ofus.
The the health uh changes in the1950s have resulted in us being
having healthy longevity.
It's not just that we're living,it's that we're living well.
We've we're very healthy, we'revery energetic, we most of us
(24:33):
can still think more or less.
And so we just have a long timeahead of us to use what we have.
And that that's the flip side isa lot of people don't realize we
didn't realize it really when weretired.
We were relatively astonished tohear how what our life
expectancy was going to be.
And it makes a big difference tohow you think about your future.
(24:54):
If you think about it for twoyears, well, fine, and go, you
know, sip your pina coladas andhave a good time.
30 years, you can't do that.
You have to have a plan.
And for women especially, wethink the plan has to involve
purpose of some kind.
And that means some kind ofdevotion to activity that is
(25:14):
outside of you to some extent.
Yeah, make it love.
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
It's real simple how you say that.
I mean, it sounds simple, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:24):
It's hard to figure out what that is, but it sounds
like, okay, yeah, I'll just godo that.
Well, it's it was, I don't meanto suggest it was easy.
I mean, Erica alluded to this.
We the thing that really openedour eyes one day was uh we both
we found a nonprofit we reallyliked, we loved their mission.
We said um we don't want to workat your mission, but we have
(25:47):
many skills that could beapplied to on the sort of
corporate side of it tobroadening your reach.
And we'd like to offer ourservices for free for six months
to do a project that we thinkwill make you better.
And they said, Oh, wonderful,that is so wonderful.
(26:07):
And then they took it to theboard, and the board came back
and said, We don't know where toput you in the org chart because
we don't want you to run theplace, which we didn't want to
do.
We don't see you as interns, andwe didn't either.
We just don't know what to dowith you.
And we that started us thinking,okay, this is an issue here.
(26:28):
They don't know what to do withus, they don't know who we are,
what we can do, what we have tooffer.
All of us women of thisgeneration, they don't know
what's going on here.
So we better explain it.
And that is why one reason westarted Luster was to advocate
in words, but also in pictures.
This is what we look like.
We're not all in rocking chairsand using canes.
(26:51):
We've got all kinds of vitality.
So that was a real eye-openerfor us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Yeah.
And and, you know, we have a lotof talent, we have a lot of
knowledge, we have a lot togive.
I mean, I'm sure that your skillset and your background that
both of you have would have beena huge benefit for that
nonprofit or really in anyorganization.
I've worked in nonprofit foryears and years and years.
(27:16):
Um, and it just um my bloodpressure went up when I just
heard that.
Honestly, like, oh my goodness,what a lost opportunity.
Um, and so I love that youcreated a community.
You created Lester as a resultof what you were experiencing.
I think it's phenomenal to seewomen at our age doing that.
(27:39):
They just fill the gap, which isexactly what Kim and I did as
well.
Community is important, um, andit's a foundation really for
what you do.
Um, you know, women, women womenlose their identity.
We've talked about this, andthey look, they're looking for
that community, and that can bereally hard.
(27:59):
Um, plugging in, we've talked alittle bit about that as well.
Can you give us maybe morespecific ways in which Luster
creates that sisterhood and thatconnection and that belonging so
that our audience understandswhat you do?
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
Sure.
Um, so Luster is a website whichhas a weekly newsletter that
goes out to all our members whopay$65 a year.
And what they get from that isuh a number of things.
And I think by saying thesethings, it kind of gives you a
(28:38):
sense, April, of what we how wecreate community and how people
respond to it.
So it, as Karen said, it has, Iwould call it thought leadership
about how to think aboutretirement, how to redefine it,
how to um reimagine it foryourself.
It's not proscriptive.
We don't have, you know, do thisand do that.
(29:01):
It's just for thinking people tosay, maybe if I looked at it
differently, maybe if I said Idon't want to do this for my
daughter, um, you know, I shouldtake some control and maybe I
should decide where my interestsand her interests are at, you
know, collide and when wherethey don't, um, because filling
up your time is not uh whatwe're about.
(29:24):
So we have a lot of thoughtleadership about uh the journey.
You know, what is it like todeal with the shock of
retirement?
How do you get over the hump?
How do you what do you say?
We have lots of stuff about whatdo you say to people who ask,
what are you doing now?
That's a huge issue for us,right?
And we don't want to talk aboutthe past, we want to talk about
(29:44):
the future.
So there's that.
Then we have monthly events thatare um mostly virtual.
We went kind of virtual at postCOVID, but they're and the
community gets together for twokinds of events one is speakers.
That are pretty much expertsthat have something to say about
where we are.
(30:05):
It can be not political, but oninterest, you know, substantive
issues that are of interest inthe world, like economics, um,
but often about things like ourhealth, our well-being, our
economic future, all that kindof stuff.
And those are interactive,although you can listen to them
later.
(30:25):
But there's a lot of questionsthat we have found that people
like to appear before the lusteraudience because, as somebody
said, they're the best questionsI ever get.
So it's a it's a good uh virtualuh event.
So we have those.
Then we have a weekly news showum with a veteran reporter
(30:45):
that's a half an hour, which isa run through of the things that
you probably know, but at leastKaren and I are news junkies,
but we still always always learnsomething we didn't know.
So that's a good half hour wellspent, and that's a lot of
conversation by everybody aboutwhat how people are feeling
about things, what's uh what'sgoing on in the world.
Um, and then Luster has otherresources like um members' tips
(31:11):
and trip tips um about where totravel around the world that are
hidden, you wouldn't be able tofind those on your own.
And finally, and maybe mostimportantly, it's a platform
that has a directory, a memberdirectory that people are
finding other people where theylive and actually getting
together on their own.
(31:32):
Um we realized was uh from ourmembers, I can't find my tribe.
I can't find my people.
And we said, well, we have wehave several thousand members,
um about 2,500 or more now.
(31:54):
We have we know where thesepeople are.
Why don't we find a way to tocreate a platform where you can
find each other?
And they are doing that all overthe country.
They're getting together forcoffee, they're getting together
in museums, they're planningstuff to do.
So they're finding their tribes.
And so I think for most of ourmembers, what the feedback we
(32:16):
get, and we get a lot, is that Ifinally found women like me.
I retired, I lost, I I couldn'tfind them, and now I know where
they are.
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
That's sweet.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
That's probably my favorite part right there.
Yep.
Um, that you're connecting womenacross the country.
Bravo.
SPEAKER_02 (32:36):
Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
Yes.
It's wonderful.
We're gonna stop right there,right?
I mean, no, it's wonderful.
That's important.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if you have anystories.
Can we?
Yeah, I mean, I I love personalstories, and I'm wondering if
you have uh a story, uh it maybe your own story or uh someone
within your community that maybesurprised you, surprised her in
(33:00):
the role that she stepped intoafter retirement.
SPEAKER_03 (33:04):
Well, we have a few.
One of our favorites is a womanwho we got to know a couple
years ago.
She's in her late 60s.
When she was young, she grew upin some small town in Texas.
And when she was 16, she askedher mother if she could come to
New York to learn how to be anactor.
(33:24):
And astonishingly, her mothersaid yes.
So she came along, and after acouple of years, she realized
she couldn't wasn't gonna eat.
So she went back, she went toschool, she um became a
marketer, she was very importantin big institutions and and she
had a great career.
Then she retired and she wentback and started learning
(33:48):
playwriting.
And she wasn't really planningto go anywhere exciting with it,
but she ended up two years ago,her play was produced on
Broadway.
Amazing, which was unbelievable.
Wow, she's extraordinary andshe's remarkable, and she just
(34:10):
decided, well, I'm gonna do thisnow.
And she just did it, and shefound people to do it, and um,
so that's one of our favoritestories.
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
Another one, just a quick one, uh was a woman who
retired, so obviously over 60,and she thought she would do
things consistent with hercareer.
She was in financial services,you know, which is typically you
go on a board or you havesomething like that.
And she kept getting umconflicted out that there were
(34:40):
reasons that she couldn't dothis, and then she couldn't do
that.
So she said, screw it.
I've always wanted to be anairline stewardess or uh it's
not called a stewardess, yeah,yeah.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Um and so she applied and shegot accepted to flight school,
(35:05):
and she's now flying around theworld.
She said, unlike the young,younger folks who are you know
want the stuff close to homebecause they have kids and
husbands, she said, My husband'sfine with this.
I'm going everywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
So she was that's outside the box, and I love
that.
Um, Karen, your story too.
I'm you know, I'm picking I'mreally visual again, but I'm
picturing someone going intotheir closet, right?
How many old boxes and stuff dowe have in the closet of stuff
that we have held on to?
I don't even know what is inthis closet that I'm looking at
in front of me for crying outloud.
(35:39):
But I'm picturing going throughthe closet and pulling out an
old box and dusting it off.
You know, you blow it off andjust say, yeah, let me go back
and see what used to bring mejoy years and years ago before,
you know, kids, before I had tolaunch them in college, before I
started caring for my parents.
What again, it comes back tothat.
(36:00):
Um, what do I want?
What do I love?
It brings me joy, what brings mepurpose?
Um, and I I just I love both ofthese stories because your
story, Erica, is like I didn'texpect that.
So good for her, but caringyours is just remarkable because
she came back to something thatshe really wanted to do,
couldn't afford it.
And look at her full circle andusing it's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
It's never too late.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Never too late.
SPEAKER_02 (36:26):
Never too late.
My um, you'll get a kick out ofthis.
My 20-year-old daughter told methe other day that she should
have gone to med school, it'stoo late now.
And I'm like, what are you evensaying?
Oh, what are you even saying?
You're 20 for crying out loud.
Those stories are great becauseyou know, you don't think that
you can or should, or or youknow, it's too late.
(36:48):
And the message is it's not ifthere's something you want to
do, go after it.
SPEAKER_03 (36:53):
It is never too late.
Yes, absolutely.
And that's what a lot of thesewomen who we have come to know,
they're amazing.
Yeah, it's amazing how they cameto what they came to.
They're indomitable, they willnot be slowed down, they do what
they want to do, and they'reinspiring to all of us.
They really are.
(37:14):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (37:15):
Okay, we could keep talking, but that is that is
like the most inspirational.
I love stories, right?
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
I'm glad that you're glad we shared a few.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
So where can people find you?
Our website is www.lusterlu st-e dot net.
And we're also on social mediaand under various names, but
luster L U S T-R-E will find youall of them.
And we would love to see youthere.
SPEAKER_02 (37:42):
Oh, so good.
Okay.
So we always ask our guests atthe end of our podcast, and
you're both gonna have to answerthis.
So sorry you don't get away withwith it.
Because man.
Yeah.
But what's the best piece ofadvice you've ever received?
SPEAKER_03 (37:59):
Best piece of advice I ever received was work hard
and then keep working harder.
And the faster and harder youwork, the sooner you will get to
where you want to go.
SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
Oh, wow.
Okay, say that again.
SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
Work really hard.
Really hard.
Then the harder you work, thefaster you will get to where you
want to go.
unknown (38:22):
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (38:22):
April.
I know, I'm writing, I'm likewriting on that.
Yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Okay.
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
Erica.
Just say yes.
I think that um a lot of peoplethat had careers like ours, you
were saying no most of the timeto a lot of things in your life.
And when I retired, it was a dia shift in in paradigm of
(38:53):
saying, instead of saying, youknow, do I really want to do
that?
Recognizing that if try it.
You can always say no later.
It kind of it totally shiftedfrom a no to a yes.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Lead with yes, because we are told to say no.
You can always change your mindlater.
Right.
Don't put too much on yourplate, say no.
And that is a complete 180.
Complete.
Um, say yes, and then you canchange your mind later.
And isn't it a blessing that weget to say yes to things that we
(39:28):
use to say no to?
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
So is indeed a blessing.
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
We're heading into the Thanksgiving week.
This will air hopefully beforeThanksgiving.
So just that attitude ofgratitude, we can end on that
note.
I appreciate your time today.
It is timely, as I mentioned atthe top of the show.
I've had several conversationsthis week with individuals who
really are at a loss.
So thank you for being here, butthank you for doing what you are
(39:57):
doing and creating thatcommunity for women and
inspiration.
You are an inspiration.
So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (40:03):
As are you guys.
Um, thank you for doing for ourdaughters who you're doing what
you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (40:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you very much.
Of course.
Well, I get to be doing peoplelike you.
So yeah, absolutely.
Uh, but until we meet again,listeners, go find joy in the
journey, and we'll talk to younext time.
Take care, Cluster friends.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks very much, ladies.
That was a pleasure.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia Menopumas podcast.
(40:31):
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up,
subscribe for future episodes,leave a review, and share this
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at Medovia.com.
That's M I D O V I A.com.
Welcome to the Medovia Menopause Podcast, your
(00:03):
trusted source for informationabout menopause and midlife.
Join us each episode as we havegreat conversations with great
people.
Tune in and enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Hey, welcome back everyone to the Menopause
Podcast, the space where werewrite the story of midlife,
one honest conversation at thetime.
And today we're diving into atopic that nearly every woman
thinks about, but rarely talksabout it openly.
What comes next?
What does purpose, identity, andcontribution look like after
(00:38):
decades of building a career,raising families, and caring for
others?
And so today we are joined bythe brilliant co-founders of
Luster, Erica Baird and KarenWagner.
They are former seniorexecutives who walked away from
enormous careers in law andfinance only to discover that
retirement or what societythinks retirement should look
(00:58):
like didn't fit.
So they set out to redefine it.
And through Luster, they'vebuilt a bold, modern, stylish
community for women ready tostep into their next chapter
with confidence, attitude, andconnection.
And they're changing thenarrative about what it means to
age with purpose, curiosity, andpower.
Oh, Erica and Karen, thank youso much for being here.
(01:19):
We've admired how you've carvedout this incredible space for
women who aren't done, who wantmore, and want to evolve.
And your mission resonatesdeeply with our listeners.
So thank you.
Thank you for having us.
SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Thank you.
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
I love having two people on because um April and I
always go at this together.
So it's fun to have four of ustoday.
Listen, your tagline is retirewith attitude, and it's bold and
refreshing.
So what does that attitude looklike for today's midlife and
beyond women?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
So uh we came up with that because uh it really
reflects how we uh we and thewomen that are part of this
community think about thefuture, right?
It it is a downer experience toretire for most of us.
I mean, there are some luckypeople that think, oh yay, I'm
retired, but for most of us,it's kind of a shock to our
(02:15):
system.
And so the question is how onceonce you absorb that shock,
shock and you kind of get overthat hump, how are you going to
approach the next 20 or 30, asyou said, decades of your life?
Yeah.
And so what we mean by thatreally is it's a just a yes
attitude.
You know, it's I'm not old, I'mnot done, I'm not invisible, I
(02:39):
refuse to let people categorizeme or stereotype me like that.
And I'm going to find a way tobe all the things that I want to
be and do all the things that Iwant to do.
So it's it's kind of a takecontrol attitude, saying, I I
can do this, I can do this.
Yes, I can.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
A lot of self-talk, right?
Um, and and building ourselvesup.
I I'm so excited for thisconversation because I just had
a similar conversation with afriend yesterday who is in this
place who um, when I said, Whatdo you want?
did not have an answer.
And Kim and I find that all thetime.
(03:19):
You know, I've been caring forpeople my whole life.
I had my career and I'm ready toretire, but I don't know what I
want.
I don't know what I need.
I don't know what I want.
I don't know what's next.
Um, so I love what you're doing.
And and I would say, um, youknow, midlife can sometimes feel
like it's this um middle place,it's this almost like an
(03:42):
earthquake, um, identityearthquake, so to speak.
And I'm wondering if you canshare with our listeners what
some of the biggest shifts arethat you see women experiencing
as they think about what's nextin their lives.
What are those big shifts?
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Well, some of the shifts are the ones you've
alluded to.
Often at the time that you'reretiring, you're perceived as
getting older.
Your children, if you have had afamily, are growing up and they
don't need you anymoreconstantly.
Your job is disappearing, yourstructure for low these many
years is gone.
What next?
(04:18):
And a lot of people come intothis with a feeling of shock,
like, okay, well, what's what amI doing?
Where am I going?
I can't see the future.
I don't know what's happening.
So, what we're trying to tellwomen is actually you have an
amazing foundation upon which tobuild.
It's not like when you wereentering the workforce when you
(04:41):
were also being revolutionaryand insisting on entering this
place where women hadn't beenwelcome.
You did a great job then, butyou didn't know anything then.
Now you know everything.
So now you have a foundation andyou can build on it.
Now you haven't spent much timethinking about yourself and what
you're going to do becauseyou've been working full-time
(05:01):
and raising your children andlooking after your parents and
everything else.
So you need to take some timeand think and start thinking
what did you like about what youdid?
What did you not like?
What kind of passion do youhave?
Where do you think you mightplay a role?
And take time.
You've earned the time to thinkabout it.
So take time and think.
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Yeah, without filling that space, right?
I feel like um oftentimes wejump from one thing to the next
to fill space and to feel busybecause it can be a little bit
frightening, depressing.
I mean, you fill in the blankwith the additives to retire and
not have the next thing.
And it does remind me of um theI'm a very visual person.
(05:45):
It reminds me of being in ahallway and one door is closed.
Both doors are actually closed.
So you've walked through a doorthat is closed and you're
standing in the middle of ahallway.
It can feel cold, it can feelempty, it can feel lonely
because there's not another dooropening for you immediately.
And I'm wondering how you, withyour organization, help women to
(06:10):
differentiate that, you know,end of the job here and the
beginning of a new purpose here.
So you reference that a littlebit, Karen, and asking those
questions and finding the spaceand finding the quiet and really
um having that self-reflection.
But what other tips can you givewomen, tangible tips to say this
is what you should do?
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
Well, I just to follow up on that, I think April
for second, the I theinteresting part about pausing,
right?
The first thing that we say isyou're not alone.
Because in that hallway, youfeel really alone, and that
you're the only person in theworld that is going through this
sense of loss, this mourningperiod of fabulous loss, like
(06:56):
you've never experienced before.
The second thing is thatnotwithstanding the fact that
you know you have this thesefoundational skills, right,
you've never really had toexercise them in certain kinds
of ways.
You've never had to build acommunity on your own because
you had school and then you hadwork, you know, then you had
your family's friends.
(07:17):
I mean, you you never really hadto do all the things that now
you may have to do on your own.
So, what we basically say is tofollow up on what Karen said,
uh, is uh you know that you'regonna miss community.
I mean, let's just assume thatyou're gonna miss community.
Tell yourself you miss yourcommunity, you miss your work
(07:38):
community, and think about howyou're gonna go about uh uh
finding a new community.
You're not gonna replicate theold one, right?
But what did you like most aboutit?
Did you like that it wasmulti-generational?
Did you like that it was, youknow, out and about?
Did you like the conversations?
Do you want it to be centeredaround uh you know, new
(08:00):
interests?
I mean, I we tell a story thatum uh Karen has one story and I
have another, but I reallywanted to pursue interior
design.
I like visual stuff too, and soI thought, oh, I'll take
classes.
And I, because everything I didwas at night after work, I
signed up for classes at nineo'clock at night at some New
(08:23):
York art school, and you know,everybody in that class is 17.
Right.
unknown (08:31):
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (08:31):
I mean, there's nobody that I wanted to meet.
My people were not gonna betaking classes at nine o'clock
on a weekday night, and so Itook the same exact class during
the day, and I have three newfriends, some of whom I travel
around the world with.
So it you have to, I think ourmessage at Luster is just one
practical example.
(08:52):
You have to think through whereare your people, not just where
are the people, you know.
This is a class of poli sci thatI might be interested in, but
are my people going to go tothat location?
Are they gonna be there?
Are they gonna be virtual?
Do I really want a virtualexperience, or am I looking to
meet people to go out to forcoffee with?
(09:14):
And luster is another thing.
I mean, our people are gettingtogether on luster, finding each
other in their communities andgetting together because they
are having trouble finding womenwho have dispersed.
I guess is the right way to saythat, right?
We all worked, we all were youcould find you, I'd call, you
(09:35):
know, your headquarters and Icould find you now where are
you?
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (09:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah.
And I think um you talk aboutlike what what trying to
identify what you want.
And April referred to that for asecond.
Like, we've never askedourselves that.
We've never asked ourselveslike, what do we want and how do
I go get that?
And that seems so scary forsomething that you've never had
(10:00):
to do before.
And you and yet everyone knowsthat community is important for
longevity.
Um, how do you how do you guidepeople um to f figure out what
it is that they want and how notto, you know, be that person
that stereotypical person whoturns on the TV and that's what
they do all day.
(10:22):
Because that's easier.
That's easier about retirement,right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
How do you help them figure outwhat they want and then how to
take some action on that?
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Well, oddly enough, one way we found to be useful
was to say, think about it asyour job.
Think about it as work.
You've been working for 40 or 50years, whatever it is.
You know how to work.
You know you have to sit down,maybe write something as we did
on a piece of legal pad.
(10:52):
Think about what you reallywant.
It's regard this time as work.
Don't regard it as umself-absorption or um planning
to do something entertaining orwithout purpose.
It's work.
What is it that you would liketo do now for 30 years in the
future?
And by the way, that's anotherthing that a lot of people don't
realize.
(11:12):
Our runways are long.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Yes, you have to have somethought involved in what you
want to do.
For most of us, also, you needpurpose.
Filling your time is notpurposeful.
What is purposeful is thinkingabout doing something that you
want to do or that you thinkother people would like you to
(11:33):
do as long as you want to do ittoo.
And think about how your life isgoing to evolve and how you want
to make it work for you.
And uh what we did, uh luckilywe were we knew each other, so
we did it together.
We found an office.
And we went to the office and wesat in the office and we said,
okay, this is our job today.
(11:53):
We're gonna write this list,we're gonna think, what do we
like about what we want to do?
What did we not like?
How are we gonna get community?
Who do we know that we couldcommune with?
And we really were veryanalytical about it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
I love that you treated it like a job.
Um, I'm an Enneagram one, so Ithat's where I go.
Lists and plans and lists.
SPEAKER_02 (12:18):
Make it to the airplane very early, just so you
know.
I mean that's great.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
You know, but I mean, in all honesty, though, as
we're we're talking throughthis, it's not so easy for some
people.
Even if you are very successfulin your career and you're
retiring, not everyone has thatpersonality.
Um, jobs are different, rolesare different, right?
Maybe you didn't lead a team of50 people, maybe you weren't
(12:47):
C-suite, maybe you preferredbeing in a lab right all day.
And and that's successful, butnow I have this identity crisis
where I don't have work and I'mnot an outgoing person.
I kind of prefer to be alone.
It can be kind of scary when wesay um treat it like a full-time
job, right?
I think it could be a little bitoverwhelming.
(13:09):
So how how do you how do weencourage women to come out of
that shell, to break out of thatshell?
And it's really um taking thatlittle fear monger and and
giving it a tap off theshoulder, right?
Like you're not welcome here.
I don't need you right now.
I don't need you right now.
Thank you for that, but I don'tneed you right now.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
I think that there's some things that are more
important than others, right?
On in that tap on the shoulder.
I think it's as Kim said, weknow that community is important
for longevity.
We know that somebody that wantsto be in the lab all day in a re
whatever the retirement lablooks like is probably not going
(13:54):
to thrive over the years as muchas a person that has people
around.
So I think that the uh thenotion of getting out right of
whatever it is that your cocoonis, if you're that kind of
person.
However, it doesn't mean youhave to go to a cocktail party
every night or go, you can go tothe library and talk to the
(14:16):
librarian.
I mean, you can't it doesn'thave to be noisy activities, it
can be tutoring a kid, you know,at a nonprofit down the street.
It can be literacy stuff, it canbe, it just means finding some
place that you're comfortableuh, but is not uh it's not all
about you.
(14:37):
And that sounds uh kind ofstrange, I guess, but it uh the
minute it's all about you, Ithink you're taking away a big
chunk of what makes the futuresentient and healthy and lively
and interesting and all thethings that we want it to be
going forward.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Well, and I think for women, um, it it's very hard
even when they try to be allabout themselves, right?
They're so used to taking careof other people.
Like I said, I'm I'm watching mymom go through this transition
right now, and she knows whatshe wants, but how to get there
is is feels selfish to her.
And trying to figure out how to,you know, break out of that
(15:20):
feeling of I now can take careof myself and do what I want is
a huge thing.
Um, I guess I'm wondering forpeople that have worked for
decades, what do you what areyou seeing as the hardest part
of loosing loosening or lettinggo of that identity that they
built around work and who theyare around that space?
SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
Well, the identity is going to be taken away from
you one way or the other.
And what we have certainlyobserved is that people feel
lost and almost no matter whatthey did before or what they
want to do now, it's veryimportant for them to find
someone to talk to.
Not like a therapist, but afriend who says, and you can go
(16:03):
to your friend and say, I reallymiss my job.
And there are some people whowould say to you, Well, you must
not have had very much of a lifeif you miss your job.
But those those of us who hadjobs that we loved, we do miss
our jobs and we do mourn theloss of them.
And we can talk to each otherabout that.
And somehow we found that thatmakes it more likely that a
(16:28):
woman who's feeling that waywill start feeling like she
could come out of her shell andstart thinking about something
else because she's not alone.
Yeah.
We we tell women like peoplelike that, you're not gonna get
your job back.
You're just not.
And in fact, the great news isin a few months, you're not
gonna want your job back.
(16:48):
That's the great news.
But you are gonna find that thestrengths and skills that the
job gave you are going to leadyou to someplace new.
You can't see it right now, butyou have to work at it.
And once you work at it for awhile, and you might try a few
things and they you might fail.
And you might think you want todo something and you do it, and
(17:09):
it's just horrible, and younever want to do it again.
Fine.
You've been through that.
Keep going, and you will findsomething that will give you
purpose and will give youcommunity at the same time.
And it may be a something quiet,like as as uh Erica says, you
don't have to be at a partyevery night, but you can be with
other people who feel the samepurpose that you do, or at least
(17:31):
a similar purpose, and you cantalk about it and share it, and
you will develop a communitythat way.
SPEAKER_02 (17:37):
You two are pretty inspirational on that, actually.
How did how did you come to comeup with this realization like
this is what I need to do now inmy post-retirement, or we need
to do now?
I assume that you know you hadsome connection and were
talking, but how did that comeup for you?
SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
You know, it took us a while.
I mean, I I think that um whenwe we had all sorts of ideas of
things we were gonna do when weretired together and age and
stereotypes and ageism got inour way, I think, and that was
(18:16):
stunning to us because wethought, you know, the day
before we were fine.
So that was kind of a shock toour system.
Um but uh really to clarifysomething I said before, I think
we also realized that this was atime to be selfish in a good
(18:37):
way.
I mean, selfish, Kim to talkingabout your mother, I mean, is
not a bad word.
You know, I I think we've madeit into something that's
negative, but it's notnecessarily negative.
It's it's taking care ofyourself is first and foremost,
right?
If you don't do that, you can'ttake care of anybody else.
I mean, we learned that yearsago.
(18:58):
So I think we said to ourselves,look, you know, here's what's
happening to us.
All these uh things that peoplethink we are, we're not.
And yet slowly we started tointernalize them ourselves.
And strong, we're both prettystrong, uh tough kind of women,
(19:20):
but we found ourselves going outin our, you know, somebody say,
What do you do now?
And we'd say, We're reallytired.
You know, it it we startedaccepting all those things, and
they were internalized.
And that's what we startedreally saying.
We need to fight fight backagainst that.
(19:41):
We need we need together to say,no, they're assuming we're one
kind of person, maybe we're new,maybe they've never seen people
like us before, but we're notthat.
SPEAKER_03 (19:52):
That's where retire with attitude comes from, right?
I I love that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
I want to just I want to just stay right here in
this moment uh for just aminute, because I think you
know, we have listeners of allages um that tune in.
And if we're not at thatpost-menopausal stage, the
average post-menopausal stage,right?
You're a little younger, youmight not really know what we're
(20:19):
talking about here.
Um, so when you say ageism andyou know, fitting into that mold
that society says that we're innow, can you unpack that a
little bit more and tell me whatyou mean by that?
What what are what are somewords that come to mind to help
the audience understand what youfaced at that point?
SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Well, I think that a couple things.
Retired means older, right?
In in in our world, right?
So if you say that you'reretired, you're you're saying
something about your age, andwhen, and society believes that
when you are of a certain age,uh you uh want to or you're
(21:05):
entitled to or you should be anyof those things, right?
Uh taking retreating, I guess isthe best word.
Retreating.
So you should be making room forthe next generation, you're not
relevant anymore, you don't knowwhat you're talking about, the
(21:25):
world has moved on.
Ageism makes assumptions solelyon the basis of your age about
who you are now.
I think Karen, that's that'skind of how I'd say what ageism
is about.
So instead of saying, and Ithink uh my daughter is in her
(21:45):
early 40s, and I think she wouldfind that too in a way.
I don't think it's there it isuh it is unwarranted and unfair
stereotypes and assumptionsbased solely on age.
SPEAKER_03 (21:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
And then women have, I mean, just to say it, women
have a double whammy becauseolder men have historically, at
least in our country, beensilver foxes and all those
procreation things that they cando or continue to do, right or
wrong.
Right.
Um so they're kind of the grayhair, silver foxy guy in the
(22:20):
room, and you know, nobody saysI'd like the gray-haired woman
in the room.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and I I mean you're right.
That's that's fair, uh, Erica.
Even in even in your 40s, Ithink we can feel that ageism
begin to to creep up, to creepin.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
And you don't want to.
You want to, I I mean, I want tobelieve that that's a thing of
the past.
And unfortunately it's not.
And you still see it and youstill battle with it.
And how do you um get past that?
And you know I think that'ssomething that's misunderstood
about aging people.
And I think, you know, you'retrying to break those molds of
(23:02):
what's of what is assumed thereof someone that age.
But what do you think besidesthis ageism thing is the most
misunderstood about people whostill feel energized, ambitious,
full of ideas?
What have you found as you'retrying to implement this and
talk to other people in your in,you know, in in in your
(23:23):
community?
SPEAKER_03 (23:25):
Well, one thing we found, which is sort of the flip
side of all this, is that if yougo back and you look at uh
retirement 100 years ago when itwas sort of invented in the
United States, the people whowere retiring were men mostly.
And a lot of them worked in hardphysical labor.
A lot of them had been throughone or two world wars.
(23:46):
It was a very physical thing,and it was tiring, and they were
tired, and their life expectancywas not long.
So retirement was a couple ofyears of hanging out in the
sunshine and having a good timewith your wife and well
deserved.
Now we're coming at retirementand older age from knowledge
(24:09):
economies.
We're coming at it from withouthaving had the physical stress
that that generation did.
We have much more life ahead ofus.
The the health uh changes in the1950s have resulted in us being
having healthy longevity.
It's not just that we're living,it's that we're living well.
We've we're very healthy, we'revery energetic, we most of us
(24:33):
can still think more or less.
And so we just have a long timeahead of us to use what we have.
And that that's the flip side isa lot of people don't realize we
didn't realize it really when weretired.
We were relatively astonished tohear how what our life
expectancy was going to be.
And it makes a big difference tohow you think about your future.
(24:54):
If you think about it for twoyears, well, fine, and go, you
know, sip your pina coladas andhave a good time.
30 years, you can't do that.
You have to have a plan.
And for women especially, wethink the plan has to involve
purpose of some kind.
And that means some kind ofdevotion to activity that is
(25:14):
outside of you to some extent.
Yeah, make it love.
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
It's real simple how you say that.
I mean, it sounds simple, right?
SPEAKER_03 (25:24):
It's hard to figure out what that is, but it sounds
like, okay, yeah, I'll just godo that.
Well, it's it was, I don't meanto suggest it was easy.
I mean, Erica alluded to this.
We the thing that really openedour eyes one day was uh we both
we found a nonprofit we reallyliked, we loved their mission.
We said um we don't want to workat your mission, but we have
(25:47):
many skills that could beapplied to on the sort of
corporate side of it tobroadening your reach.
And we'd like to offer ourservices for free for six months
to do a project that we thinkwill make you better.
And they said, Oh, wonderful,that is so wonderful.
(26:07):
And then they took it to theboard, and the board came back
and said, We don't know where toput you in the org chart because
we don't want you to run theplace, which we didn't want to
do.
We don't see you as interns, andwe didn't either.
We just don't know what to dowith you.
And we that started us thinking,okay, this is an issue here.
(26:28):
They don't know what to do withus, they don't know who we are,
what we can do, what we have tooffer.
All of us women of thisgeneration, they don't know
what's going on here.
So we better explain it.
And that is why one reason westarted Luster was to advocate
in words, but also in pictures.
This is what we look like.
We're not all in rocking chairsand using canes.
(26:51):
We've got all kinds of vitality.
So that was a real eye-openerfor us.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Yeah.
And and, you know, we have a lotof talent, we have a lot of
knowledge, we have a lot togive.
I mean, I'm sure that your skillset and your background that
both of you have would have beena huge benefit for that
nonprofit or really in anyorganization.
I've worked in nonprofit foryears and years and years.
(27:16):
Um, and it just um my bloodpressure went up when I just
heard that.
Honestly, like, oh my goodness,what a lost opportunity.
Um, and so I love that youcreated a community.
You created Lester as a resultof what you were experiencing.
I think it's phenomenal to seewomen at our age doing that.
(27:39):
They just fill the gap, which isexactly what Kim and I did as
well.
Community is important, um, andit's a foundation really for
what you do.
Um, you know, women, women womenlose their identity.
We've talked about this, andthey look, they're looking for
that community, and that can bereally hard.
(27:59):
Um, plugging in, we've talked alittle bit about that as well.
Can you give us maybe morespecific ways in which Luster
creates that sisterhood and thatconnection and that belonging so
that our audience understandswhat you do?
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
Sure.
Um, so Luster is a website whichhas a weekly newsletter that
goes out to all our members whopay$65 a year.
And what they get from that isuh a number of things.
And I think by saying thesethings, it kind of gives you a
(28:38):
sense, April, of what we how wecreate community and how people
respond to it.
So it, as Karen said, it has, Iwould call it thought leadership
about how to think aboutretirement, how to redefine it,
how to um reimagine it foryourself.
It's not proscriptive.
We don't have, you know, do thisand do that.
(29:01):
It's just for thinking people tosay, maybe if I looked at it
differently, maybe if I said Idon't want to do this for my
daughter, um, you know, I shouldtake some control and maybe I
should decide where my interestsand her interests are at, you
know, collide and when wherethey don't, um, because filling
up your time is not uh whatwe're about.
(29:24):
So we have a lot of thoughtleadership about uh the journey.
You know, what is it like todeal with the shock of
retirement?
How do you get over the hump?
How do you what do you say?
We have lots of stuff about whatdo you say to people who ask,
what are you doing now?
That's a huge issue for us,right?
And we don't want to talk aboutthe past, we want to talk about
(29:44):
the future.
So there's that.
Then we have monthly events thatare um mostly virtual.
We went kind of virtual at postCOVID, but they're and the
community gets together for twokinds of events one is speakers.
That are pretty much expertsthat have something to say about
where we are.
(30:05):
It can be not political, but oninterest, you know, substantive
issues that are of interest inthe world, like economics, um,
but often about things like ourhealth, our well-being, our
economic future, all that kindof stuff.
And those are interactive,although you can listen to them
later.
(30:25):
But there's a lot of questionsthat we have found that people
like to appear before the lusteraudience because, as somebody
said, they're the best questionsI ever get.
So it's a it's a good uh virtualuh event.
So we have those.
Then we have a weekly news showum with a veteran reporter
(30:45):
that's a half an hour, which isa run through of the things that
you probably know, but at leastKaren and I are news junkies,
but we still always always learnsomething we didn't know.
So that's a good half hour wellspent, and that's a lot of
conversation by everybody aboutwhat how people are feeling
about things, what's uh what'sgoing on in the world.
Um, and then Luster has otherresources like um members' tips
(31:11):
and trip tips um about where totravel around the world that are
hidden, you wouldn't be able tofind those on your own.
And finally, and maybe mostimportantly, it's a platform
that has a directory, a memberdirectory that people are
finding other people where theylive and actually getting
together on their own.
(31:32):
Um we realized was uh from ourmembers, I can't find my tribe.
I can't find my people.
And we said, well, we have wehave several thousand members,
um about 2,500 or more now.
(31:54):
We have we know where thesepeople are.
Why don't we find a way to tocreate a platform where you can
find each other?
And they are doing that all overthe country.
They're getting together forcoffee, they're getting together
in museums, they're planningstuff to do.
So they're finding their tribes.
And so I think for most of ourmembers, what the feedback we
(32:16):
get, and we get a lot, is that Ifinally found women like me.
I retired, I lost, I I couldn'tfind them, and now I know where
they are.
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
That's sweet.
SPEAKER_00 (32:27):
That's probably my favorite part right there.
Yep.
Um, that you're connecting womenacross the country.
Bravo.
SPEAKER_02 (32:36):
Yeah, really.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
Yes.
It's wonderful.
We're gonna stop right there,right?
I mean, no, it's wonderful.
That's important.
Yeah.
I'm wondering if you have anystories.
Can we?
Yeah, I mean, I I love personalstories, and I'm wondering if
you have uh a story, uh it maybe your own story or uh someone
within your community that maybesurprised you, surprised her in
(33:00):
the role that she stepped intoafter retirement.
SPEAKER_03 (33:04):
Well, we have a few.
One of our favorites is a womanwho we got to know a couple
years ago.
She's in her late 60s.
When she was young, she grew upin some small town in Texas.
And when she was 16, she askedher mother if she could come to
New York to learn how to be anactor.
(33:24):
And astonishingly, her mothersaid yes.
So she came along, and after acouple of years, she realized
she couldn't wasn't gonna eat.
So she went back, she went toschool, she um became a
marketer, she was very importantin big institutions and and she
had a great career.
Then she retired and she wentback and started learning
(33:48):
playwriting.
And she wasn't really planningto go anywhere exciting with it,
but she ended up two years ago,her play was produced on
Broadway.
Amazing, which was unbelievable.
Wow, she's extraordinary andshe's remarkable, and she just
(34:10):
decided, well, I'm gonna do thisnow.
And she just did it, and shefound people to do it, and um,
so that's one of our favoritestories.
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
Another one, just a quick one, uh was a woman who
retired, so obviously over 60,and she thought she would do
things consistent with hercareer.
She was in financial services,you know, which is typically you
go on a board or you havesomething like that.
And she kept getting umconflicted out that there were
(34:40):
reasons that she couldn't dothis, and then she couldn't do
that.
So she said, screw it.
I've always wanted to be anairline stewardess or uh it's
not called a stewardess, yeah,yeah.
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
Um and so she applied and shegot accepted to flight school,
(35:05):
and she's now flying around theworld.
She said, unlike the young,younger folks who are you know
want the stuff close to homebecause they have kids and
husbands, she said, My husband'sfine with this.
I'm going everywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
So she was that's outside the box, and I love
that.
Um, Karen, your story too.
I'm you know, I'm picking I'mreally visual again, but I'm
picturing someone going intotheir closet, right?
How many old boxes and stuff dowe have in the closet of stuff
that we have held on to?
I don't even know what is inthis closet that I'm looking at
in front of me for crying outloud.
(35:39):
But I'm picturing going throughthe closet and pulling out an
old box and dusting it off.
You know, you blow it off andjust say, yeah, let me go back
and see what used to bring mejoy years and years ago before,
you know, kids, before I had tolaunch them in college, before I
started caring for my parents.
What again, it comes back tothat.
(36:00):
Um, what do I want?
What do I love?
It brings me joy, what brings mepurpose?
Um, and I I just I love both ofthese stories because your
story, Erica, is like I didn'texpect that.
So good for her, but caringyours is just remarkable because
she came back to something thatshe really wanted to do,
couldn't afford it.
And look at her full circle andusing it's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
It's never too late.
SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Never too late.
SPEAKER_02 (36:26):
Never too late.
My um, you'll get a kick out ofthis.
My 20-year-old daughter told methe other day that she should
have gone to med school, it'stoo late now.
And I'm like, what are you evensaying?
Oh, what are you even saying?
You're 20 for crying out loud.
Those stories are great becauseyou know, you don't think that
you can or should, or or youknow, it's too late.
(36:48):
And the message is it's not ifthere's something you want to
do, go after it.
SPEAKER_03 (36:53):
It is never too late.
Yes, absolutely.
And that's what a lot of thesewomen who we have come to know,
they're amazing.
Yeah, it's amazing how they cameto what they came to.
They're indomitable, they willnot be slowed down, they do what
they want to do, and they'reinspiring to all of us.
They really are.
(37:14):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (37:15):
Okay, we could keep talking, but that is that is
like the most inspirational.
I love stories, right?
SPEAKER_00 (37:21):
I'm glad that you're glad we shared a few.
SPEAKER_03 (37:24):
So where can people find you?
Our website is www.lusterlu st-e dot net.
And we're also on social mediaand under various names, but
luster L U S T-R-E will find youall of them.
And we would love to see youthere.
SPEAKER_02 (37:42):
Oh, so good.
Okay.
So we always ask our guests atthe end of our podcast, and
you're both gonna have to answerthis.
So sorry you don't get away withwith it.
Because man.
Yeah.
But what's the best piece ofadvice you've ever received?
SPEAKER_03 (37:59):
Best piece of advice I ever received was work hard
and then keep working harder.
And the faster and harder youwork, the sooner you will get to
where you want to go.
SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
Oh, wow.
Okay, say that again.
SPEAKER_03 (38:12):
Work really hard.
Really hard.
Then the harder you work, thefaster you will get to where you
want to go.
unknown (38:22):
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (38:22):
April.
I know, I'm writing, I'm likewriting on that.
Yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Okay.
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (38:31):
Erica.
Just say yes.
I think that um a lot of peoplethat had careers like ours, you
were saying no most of the timeto a lot of things in your life.
And when I retired, it was a dia shift in in paradigm of
(38:53):
saying, instead of saying, youknow, do I really want to do
that?
Recognizing that if try it.
You can always say no later.
It kind of it totally shiftedfrom a no to a yes.
SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
Lead with yes, because we are told to say no.
You can always change your mindlater.
Right.
Don't put too much on yourplate, say no.
And that is a complete 180.
Complete.
Um, say yes, and then you canchange your mind later.
And isn't it a blessing that weget to say yes to things that we
(39:28):
use to say no to?
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
So is indeed a blessing.
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
We're heading into the Thanksgiving week.
This will air hopefully beforeThanksgiving.
So just that attitude ofgratitude, we can end on that
note.
I appreciate your time today.
It is timely, as I mentioned atthe top of the show.
I've had several conversationsthis week with individuals who
really are at a loss.
So thank you for being here, butthank you for doing what you are
(39:57):
doing and creating thatcommunity for women and
inspiration.
You are an inspiration.
So thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (40:03):
As are you guys.
Um, thank you for doing for ourdaughters who you're doing what
you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (40:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you very much.
Of course.
Well, I get to be doing peoplelike you.
So yeah, absolutely.
Uh, but until we meet again,listeners, go find joy in the
journey, and we'll talk to younext time.
Take care, Cluster friends.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks very much, ladies.
That was a pleasure.
Thank you for listening to theMedovia Menopumas podcast.
(40:31):
If you enjoyed today's show,please give it a thumbs up,
subscribe for future episodes,leave a review, and share this
episode with a friend.
Medovia is out to change thenarrative.
Learn more at Medovia.com.
That's M I D O V I A.com.
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