May 21, 2024 • 21 mins
Prepare to be inspired as we join forces with Drew Tulchin, the mastermind behind the New Mexico Angels Investors Network, for a deep dive into the profound effects of local investing on both communities and the business world. We celebrate a decade of insights from Impact Alpha, while also shedding light on the darker aspects of corporate dominance in live entertainment, weighing in on the monumental lawsuit the US Department of Justice has brought against Live Nation. Our journey with Drew doesn't stop there; we honor the bold steps taken by Illinois Governor JB Pritzker to clear medical debt, a move that promises to lift many from financial despair and serve as a beacon for the kind of change that can come from mindful governance.
Unlock the potential of impact investments and business sustainability as we spotlight the National Coalition for Community Capital's role in nurturing Michigan's startup culture, and marvel at Drew's transition from Meow Wolf's CFO to leading angel investors into a future where businesses serve more than just their bottom lines. We cast a critical eye on the significance of B Corporations and their parallel to organic certification, reinforcing the need for integrity in our marketplaces. This episode isn't just about dollars and cents; it's about how we measure our true value through happiness indexes, the UN's Sustainable Development Goals, and triple-bottom-line businesses that cherish profit, people, and the planet alike. Join us on this enlightening path to discover how investment can be a powerful tool for societal evolution.
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http://meowwolf.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joel (00:00):
What if investing in each other could change the world?
I'm Joel Skeen with bizradiousand this is the Mindful
Marketplace.
Welcome, welcome to the MindfulMarketplace here on bizradious.
I am your host, joel Skeen.
Very grateful to have you here.
(00:20):
Very grateful for today's show.
I'm going to be talking todaywith Drew Tulchin, who is the
president of the New MexicoAngels Investors Network, and
we're going to be talking a lotabout the growth of local
investing.
But if this is your first timehere with us on this program,
this is where we talk to theentrepreneurs, the advisors, the
industry leaders, investors andeconomic experts, who are all
(00:42):
questioning the assumption thatthere's just one bottom line in
business.
It's where we learn how toconnect our money and our
businesses to our values, ourcommunity and ourselves.
So before we get in with ithere with Drew today, I am going
to go over the balance sheetthe assets, liabilities, debts
and investments All right In theassets column.
(01:04):
Today, I first want to talkabout Impact Alpha.
They are celebrating their10-year anniversary and it
really is a true asset to a moremindful marketplace.
Impact Alpha is essentially theWall Street Journal for impact
investing.
So their about page talks abouthow they are made up of both
trusted insiders but alsoskeptical outsiders, and they
(01:26):
identify solutions worth scalingand balloons that need popping.
Their audience includes assetowners, asset and fund managers,
foundations, advisors,entrepreneurs and advocates.
If you like this show, I'm sureyou would find value in Impact
Alpha, and in addition to thenews, they also have several
(01:46):
different databases of differentkinds of impact investing.
There's a spot for climate tech, local entrepreneurship,
international investmentopportunities.
So happy birthday to ImpactAlpha.
Very congrats to you guys for10 years of reporting on impact
investing.
Congrats to you guys for 10years of reporting on impact
investing.
Next, in the liabilities column.
(02:07):
So the US Department of Justiceis planning to sue Live Nation
over alleged violations offederal antitrust laws.
The lawsuit will allege thatLive Nation has leveraged its
dominance over the live musicindustry and has undermined
competition for ticketing.
Over the live music industryand has undermined competition
(02:27):
for ticketing.
This comes after Live Nationfaced criticism for its handling
of Taylor Swift's Eras tourback in 2022.
And since Live Nation andTicketmaster merged back in 2010
, the company has facedcriticisms for exerting unfair
dominance over the market forlive concerts.
The DOJ approved that merger atthe time, but imposed a consent
degree to prevent the companyfrom abusing its position.
(02:53):
However, these restrictionswere extended after the DOJ
accused Live Nation ofrepeatedly violating the decree.
The DOJ has been investigatingLive Nation for months, focusing
on whether Live Nation imposedanti-competitive agreements on
venues.
It's also hired a veterancompetition attorney to defend
the company against theseallegations, arguing that ticket
(03:15):
prices were set by artists anddriven up by the forces of
supply and demand.
But the entertainment industryhas seen significant
deregulation and monopolizationsince the 1990s.
The merger of Live Nation andTicketmaster in 2010 has been
the focal point of criticism,with allegations of the company
exerting unfair dominance overthe market for live concerts.
(03:36):
The DOJ the planned lawsuit byLive Nation by the DOJ is a
clear indication of the ongoingconcerns about monopolistic
practices in the entertainmentindustry.
The lawsuit alleges that LiveNation leveraged its dominance
for ticketing.
As we've recently seen with thetech industry and with Google,
(03:56):
the cases of Live NationTicketmaster raised significant
concerns about fair competitionand antitrust violations.
This ongoing scrutiny andplanned lawsuit by the
Department of Justice reflectthat challenge of regulating
market monopolization.
All right in the debts column,so Governor JB Pritzker of
(04:16):
Illinois has unveiledsignificant initiative aimed at
eliminating medical debt for asubstantial number of people in
the state.
The governor's plan is focusedon providing relief to those
burdened by medical debt for asubstantial number of people in
the state.
The governor's plan is focusedon providing relief to those
burdened by medical debt, withthe goal of preventing financial
hardship and bankruptcyresulting from health care
expenses.
During his budget address,governor Pritzker proposed
(04:40):
legislation to eliminate $4billion of medical debt for over
a million people in Illinois.
This demonstrates, I think, astrong commitment to addressing
financial challenges associatedwith healthcare expenses.
He emphasized the detrimentalimpact of medical debt on
patients, often leading todamaged credit and the risk of
bankruptcy in the monthsfollowing hospital visits.
(05:02):
The proposed legislation seeksto provide relief for medical
debt for over 3,400 people inIllinois, addressing these
challenges and providingsubstantial relief to a
significant portion of thepopulation burdened by medical
debt.
Pritzker has requested $10million in 2025 fiscal year to
relieve nearly a billion dollarsof medical debt for Illinois
(05:24):
residents.
This allocation is intended tobenefit about 340 individuals
and plans for continued reliefin subsequent years.
The proposed initiative hasgarnered support and
participation from health careinstitutions like Loyola
Medicine, which is alreadycommitted to forgiving a
substantial amount of medicaldebt.
This proactive involvement fromthe health care providers
(05:45):
underscores the collaborativeeffort to alleviate the burden
of medical debt on individualsand families.
In Illinois, ritzker'scomprehensive plan to eliminate
medical debt for a significantportion of the population
reflects a proactive andimpactful approach to addressing
the financial challengesassociated with healthcare
expenses.
And remember, in order to helpcombat the debt crisis, we here
(06:06):
at the Mindful Marketplace areproviding all of our listeners
with a free, customized reporton how you can best eliminate
personal and business debt,based on your unique situation.
So lots of families have usedthis report to eliminate all
their debt, including mortgages,in less than nine years or less
without spending any additionalmoney.
So get debt free by going tomindfulmarketplaceshowcom.
(06:27):
And lastly, in the investmentscolumn, I want to hit on the
National Coalition for CommunityCapital and the work they are
starting in my old home state ofMichigan.
Nc3, or National Coalition forCommunity Capital, will roll out
a statewide educational programin Michigan for startup
businesses to pursue investmentcapital from their community as
part of their two and a halfyear project through the program
(06:49):
, nc3 says the first stage is tointegrate with existing
educational programs conductedby the Michigan Entrepreneurial
Support Organizations.
They recently held an initialcollaboration meeting with
organizers from across Michiganto provide valuable input on
potential organizationalpartners and benefit Michigan
entrepreneurs and communities.
(07:10):
All right, that is the balancesheet and now we're going to get
back to.
I'm looking forward really hereto introducing you all and
getting to learn as much as wecan here from someone who has
quite an extensive background instartup investing in creating
some really cool things.
We had a kind of a connection,because one of my favorite
(07:32):
things in the entire country,one of my favorite businesses,
is an art business and itstarted in Albuquerque, new
Mexico, and I love it.
It's called Meow Wolf.
I've gone to all three of thelocations that they've had, and
so I was very excited to learnit's called Meow Wolf.
I've gone to all three of thelocations that they've had, and
so I was very excited to learn,drew, that you were one of the
original.
You were the original.
You were the CFO of Meow Wolfwhen it first started.
Is that right?
You're?
Drew (07:52):
still muted.
Joel (07:52):
Yeah, okay.
Drew (07:53):
There we go.
Yeah, I got to be first CFO.
The organization had existedbefore me, been together for a
number of years, but I got to bethe first CFO as we start to
formalize and become a realbusiness and get our doors open,
first in Santa Fe, then inDenver, las Vegas, now outside
of Dallas and Grapevine, andsoon in Houston and maybe coming
(08:13):
to a city near where you are,your listeners.
Joel (08:16):
Yeah, I hope so.
It's such a great communityspace In addition to being such
an experience I found if you'reever in, there's one in Vegas,
there's one in Dallas nowColorado and Denver and in Santa
Fe, and if you're ever in anyof those areas, I highly
recommend checking out Meow Wolffor sure.
So, Drew, give us a littlebackground.
(08:39):
I know that you are now thepresident of the New Mexico
Angel Investors.
Talk to us a little bit abouthow you got there out of all
places.
Was that sort of where youdecided to go when you were
younger and you set out on apath, or was that a path that
sort of came your way?
Drew (09:03):
of came your way.
Yeah, so I live in Santa Fe,new Mexico, joel, so any of your
listeners who are there, fellowZias, welcome to Drop Me a Line
.
Reach me at.
Drew at mmangelscom and I grewup in North Carolina, so
appreciation to those withinNashville and the whole
Appalachian region.
And I've been in New Mexico for16 years, so for many that still
makes me an outsider in a placethat goes back many generations
or even thousands of years.
So for many, that still makes mean outsider in a place that
goes back many generations oreven thousands of years.
(09:25):
And I've always had a passionfor supporting New Mexico and
making sure that it can be agood place to live for everybody
and a good place for the future.
And my path on AngelDum rightto lead an angel group was the
work that I first did with MeowWolf, which is a company which
raised we were fortunate toraise more than $100 million
(09:47):
during my tenure, and we are aregistered B Corporation, a
certified B Corp right, so weare a socially responsible
company and I've been motivatedaround business for good and
impact for a long, long time.
And then, from my work withthis startup, meow Wolf, I then
did what's called fractionalexec work, where I worked as a
(10:10):
part-time CFO for a number ofstartups.
After Meow Wolf, there's agreat company called Electric
Playhouse, and then Build withRobots, and then DashLX.
And from having done that kindof being on the other side of
the table, so to speak, I thengot asked to lead our angel
network, because I'd worked witha lot of the angels over time.
Joel (10:33):
So you mentioned being a B Corp.
What is it about the work thatyou all were doing that that, I
guess, alleged you made you wantto seek out that certification
and also justified having thatcertification.
Drew (10:46):
Yeah, so do our listeners know about that, or should we
start with some definitions?
Joel (10:49):
Yeah, I think it'd be good to do a brief.
Just a quick overview on whatthat means for anyone who's new.
Yeah.
Drew (10:55):
Right, okay.
So imagine you're in thegrocery store and you're buying
some organic food, right?
And you look at the packagingIf it's certified organic,
there's going to be a littleearth on the back, and so that's
the way you know that it'sactually organic.
Because a lot of people makeclaims about food.
Something might be natural.
What is natural made Stuff likethat, and in the business world
(11:15):
, we were faced with some of thesame challenges.
This has happened in forestry.
This has happened in forestry.
This has happened in organicfood.
This has happened in clothingand business.
The question is how do you knowyou're a good business, right?
So we've got folks likePatagonia Ben and Jerry's that
are really well known and, infact, are stronger businesses
because of their communitymindedness, because of their
(11:37):
leadership, because theirdedication to the environment
and the earth.
But if you're not one of thoseiconic brands, how do you show
your bona fides?
And so there was an effort tocertify as a B corporation, a
beneficial corporation,something that's good for the
world.
In addition, you also canregister your legal
certification as a B Corp.
(11:58):
So those are two differentthings you could be a regular
company and certified, or youcan choose your legal
registration as one of these BCorps and so I started a
consulting firm, first in DC andthen we were the first B Corp
in New Mexico 15 years ago,because I really was committed
around this idea of business forgood.
(12:19):
You can do well by doing good.
You can use business to helpcommunity-minded efforts and
nonprofits and you can makereturns for people beyond just
financial value creation.
Joel (12:32):
Right, and that gets to the phrase that I used at the
top of the show, which is thatthere's more than just one
bottom line, and that's actuallythe phrase that often gets used
by social enterprises or by BCorps is there's an idea of a
triple bottom line, or I've evenheard the idea of the quadruple
bottom line.
What are those other bottomlines in your mind?
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat's in the certification too,
(12:52):
but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom
lines in your mind.
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat's in the certification too,
but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom
lines.
Drew (13:01):
Yeah.
So there was the single, thenthey got to double right, so
there was social and financial.
Then we added the triple onewith the environment, or what
they called the three Ps peopleplanet or what they called the
three Ps people planet purpose.
And I also am an adherent ofthe quadruple bottom line.
There's some information aboutit If you just Google it.
(13:28):
New Zealand, the nation of NewZealand, actually adapted it as
a means to start measuring theirprogress towards UN development
goals and then we wrotesomething about that.
In my consulting firm, which iscalled Upspring Associates, we
have a resources page and we dida little brief on this
quadruple bottom line, or thefour Ps and the fourth one.
It can be spirituality, can becommunity, but the things that
(13:49):
kind of cohere us as a peoples,and I think it's very valuable
because ultimately I think it'swhat's going to make our world a
better place and actually justkeep our world sustainable.
But I think it's really truethat you can do more than just
financial econometrics andequations to show why something
(14:11):
is worthwhile.
Joel (14:13):
Right, what are those other metrics that someone can
use to determine something likea?
You know, it's very easy todetermine a financial value,
it's very easy to look at thenumber and say, okay, here's
what it is right, verymeasurable.
That's what's nice about it.
But what are some?
How, how would you measure someof those other, those other
bottom lines, like you know, theenvironment, or like your
(14:35):
community, the things thatreally make life life?
Drew (14:39):
Yeah, there's tons of ways .
It's just that there aren't asmuch social scientists who have
studied it.
So that's where the argumentscome about.
But some people might haveheard of the index of happiness
right, which is the idea thatsome of our smaller countries
are happier than, say, americansor others in another way to
look at value or well-being, andso that's a fun thing to look
(15:00):
at If you're a propeller headlike me, really like data and
statistics.
There's something called theGIN, g-i-i-n, the GIN, and
that's been kind of a centralrepository in a membership
organization to have measurementmechanisms.
The UN, with its sustainabledevelopment goals, sdgs, has
created a number of ways to haverubrics or mechanisms, of ways
(15:22):
to measure stuff towards theirgoals, such as are kids in
school or girls in school?
Do people have access to water?
Is it safe and clean?
Do they have roofs over theirhead?
So these are things that youcan count and from counting them
you can place some sort ofvalue on them.
Things that are closer to theAmerican consciousness is.
(15:44):
I just read an article aboutWest Virginia right and coal
country.
But you can actually look atthe cancer rates, you can look
at the air quality and these arethings that are pretty easy to
measure and you can't argueabout it.
Right, the cancer rates are orthey aren't.
Now you can argue about whythose cancer rates are and who's
to blame or how it came about,but you can't argue with the
(16:07):
fact that West Virginians aredying 15 years on average
earlier than most of America dueto air quality, cancers,
poverty and other healthimplications.
Joel (16:19):
Yeah, it reminds me we actually got to meet for the
audience.
Drew and I got to meet at areally fantastic conference
called Neighborhood Economics,and one of the speakers at that
conference I remember talkedabout showed a map of the city
we were in, which is San Antonio, and showed different
neighborhoods on that map and indifferent neighborhoods, the
(16:43):
rates of all different kinds ofdiseases were different, based
on a variety of factors.
You know income, housing,access to healthcare, access to
you know community services,access to greenery and nature,
but one thing that I took awayfrom that was really stunning
was that you know your zip codedetermines your longevity and
your health and life, more soeven than your DNA code.
(17:03):
I was curious if there'sanything from that conference
that you really that reallyspoke to you or you really took
away from in regards to the workthat you guys are doing.
Drew (17:14):
Yeah.
So Neighborhood Economics ashout out to Kevin Jones and the
people who are organizing that.
My understanding, after beingin Mississippi last year, san
Antonio, this year, they'recoming to Asheville and then
they'll be in other places.
And what really inspired meabout that group, joel, is the
idea of faith-based efforts andthat's not new, right, I mean
(17:35):
the apartheid movements and someof our earliest ESG and faith
and emotional or models-based orvalues-based investing was from
a faith-based community.
Right, and it makes sense.
Right, you should invest thatis in alignment with your
beliefs and you don't have to beradical.
(17:56):
I'm Jewish, I was raised Jewish,I think I'm culturally Jewish,
but also the cultural sides ofthings, whether I'm Native
American or whether I'm Jewish,christian, buddhist, whatever it
is.
I think there's a lot of thingswe can agree upon and so can't
we invest in ways that we feelgood about with our retirement
or other means to be able to seea better community, see a
(18:19):
better local neighborhood and beable to earn a return?
And I think that theconversation around that, with
so many thoughtful peoplenationwide that all had the same
thinking, is very powerful, andI don't think in America we're
encouraged to have theseconversations, right, it's rare,
at least in my circles.
And so for the listeners toexplicitly go out and do a salon
(18:41):
style right, have a dinnerwhere you specifically talk
about with your friends, withyour family, what's your goal
around philanthropy, what's yourgoal around investing what's
important to you and then, withthat shared experience, then can
you share opportunities ofspecifics that you might be able
to actually action thesetheories and ideas.
Joel (19:01):
Yeah, it's like if you take the same idea of a triple
bottom line business that says,hey, I want to make money in my
business, but I also want toserve a social good with that
money or with the service thatwe're providing in the process,
it seems like a naturaltransition from having triple
bottom line businesses to triplebottom line investing, because
(19:23):
businesses often take both.
They both take an entrepreneurand someone who's going to do
the work and have the idea, andthey also take capital that's
going to back that.
And so in part two of thisconversation we're going to
really dive deeper into thatside of things, into the triple
bottom line half of theinvesting, half of triple bottom
line business, I should say.
And so I'm really lookingforward to get to dive in with
(19:46):
Drew on that here and talk moreabout what they're doing with
New Mexico Angels and what itlooks like to expand local and
impact investing away from aplace where just a few people
are doing it towards a placewhere it's something common,
where we can all do it and it'ssomething we can all get
involved in.
So make sure to listen to thatnext week.
(20:08):
Here on Biz Radio US, you canalso listen to all of the back
episodes, obviously on the site,but also on on the site, but
also on Spotify, itunes,iheartradio, youtube.
Now we're up on video onYouTube, so subscribe to us
there and make sure to tune backin next time for part two of my
conversation with Drew Tulchian.
And until next time, rememberwe are each other.
What if investing in each other could change the world?
I'm Joel Skeen with bizradiousand this is the Mindful
Marketplace.
Welcome, welcome to the MindfulMarketplace here on bizradious.
I am your host, joel Skeen.
Very grateful to have you here.
(00:20):
Very grateful for today's show.
I'm going to be talking todaywith Drew Tulchin, who is the
president of the New MexicoAngels Investors Network, and
we're going to be talking a lotabout the growth of local
investing.
But if this is your first timehere with us on this program,
this is where we talk to theentrepreneurs, the advisors, the
industry leaders, investors andeconomic experts, who are all
(00:42):
questioning the assumption thatthere's just one bottom line in
business.
It's where we learn how toconnect our money and our
businesses to our values, ourcommunity and ourselves.
So before we get in with ithere with Drew today, I am going
to go over the balance sheetthe assets, liabilities, debts
and investments All right In theassets column.
(01:04):
Today, I first want to talkabout Impact Alpha.
They are celebrating their10-year anniversary and it
really is a true asset to a moremindful marketplace.
Impact Alpha is essentially theWall Street Journal for impact
investing.
So their about page talks abouthow they are made up of both
trusted insiders but alsoskeptical outsiders, and they
(01:26):
identify solutions worth scalingand balloons that need popping.
Their audience includes assetowners, asset and fund managers,
foundations, advisors,entrepreneurs and advocates.
If you like this show, I'm sureyou would find value in Impact
Alpha, and in addition to thenews, they also have several
(01:46):
different databases of differentkinds of impact investing.
There's a spot for climate tech, local entrepreneurship,
international investmentopportunities.
So happy birthday to ImpactAlpha.
Very congrats to you guys for10 years of reporting on impact
investing.
Congrats to you guys for 10years of reporting on impact
investing.
Next, in the liabilities column.
(02:07):
So the US Department of Justiceis planning to sue Live Nation
over alleged violations offederal antitrust laws.
The lawsuit will allege thatLive Nation has leveraged its
dominance over the live musicindustry and has undermined
competition for ticketing.
Over the live music industryand has undermined competition
(02:27):
for ticketing.
This comes after Live Nationfaced criticism for its handling
of Taylor Swift's Eras tourback in 2022.
And since Live Nation andTicketmaster merged back in 2010
, the company has facedcriticisms for exerting unfair
dominance over the market forlive concerts.
The DOJ approved that merger atthe time, but imposed a consent
degree to prevent the companyfrom abusing its position.
(02:53):
However, these restrictionswere extended after the DOJ
accused Live Nation ofrepeatedly violating the decree.
The DOJ has been investigatingLive Nation for months, focusing
on whether Live Nation imposedanti-competitive agreements on
venues.
It's also hired a veterancompetition attorney to defend
the company against theseallegations, arguing that ticket
(03:15):
prices were set by artists anddriven up by the forces of
supply and demand.
But the entertainment industryhas seen significant
deregulation and monopolizationsince the 1990s.
The merger of Live Nation andTicketmaster in 2010 has been
the focal point of criticism,with allegations of the company
exerting unfair dominance overthe market for live concerts.
(03:36):
The DOJ the planned lawsuit byLive Nation by the DOJ is a
clear indication of the ongoingconcerns about monopolistic
practices in the entertainmentindustry.
The lawsuit alleges that LiveNation leveraged its dominance
for ticketing.
As we've recently seen with thetech industry and with Google,
(03:56):
the cases of Live NationTicketmaster raised significant
concerns about fair competitionand antitrust violations.
This ongoing scrutiny andplanned lawsuit by the
Department of Justice reflectthat challenge of regulating
market monopolization.
All right in the debts column,so Governor JB Pritzker of
(04:16):
Illinois has unveiledsignificant initiative aimed at
eliminating medical debt for asubstantial number of people in
the state.
The governor's plan is focusedon providing relief to those
burdened by medical debt for asubstantial number of people in
the state.
The governor's plan is focusedon providing relief to those
burdened by medical debt, withthe goal of preventing financial
hardship and bankruptcyresulting from health care
expenses.
During his budget address,governor Pritzker proposed
(04:40):
legislation to eliminate $4billion of medical debt for over
a million people in Illinois.
This demonstrates, I think, astrong commitment to addressing
financial challenges associatedwith healthcare expenses.
He emphasized the detrimentalimpact of medical debt on
patients, often leading todamaged credit and the risk of
bankruptcy in the monthsfollowing hospital visits.
(05:02):
The proposed legislation seeksto provide relief for medical
debt for over 3,400 people inIllinois, addressing these
challenges and providingsubstantial relief to a
significant portion of thepopulation burdened by medical
debt.
Pritzker has requested $10million in 2025 fiscal year to
relieve nearly a billion dollarsof medical debt for Illinois
(05:24):
residents.
This allocation is intended tobenefit about 340 individuals
and plans for continued reliefin subsequent years.
The proposed initiative hasgarnered support and
participation from health careinstitutions like Loyola
Medicine, which is alreadycommitted to forgiving a
substantial amount of medicaldebt.
This proactive involvement fromthe health care providers
(05:45):
underscores the collaborativeeffort to alleviate the burden
of medical debt on individualsand families.
In Illinois, ritzker'scomprehensive plan to eliminate
medical debt for a significantportion of the population
reflects a proactive andimpactful approach to addressing
the financial challengesassociated with healthcare
expenses.
And remember, in order to helpcombat the debt crisis, we here
(06:06):
at the Mindful Marketplace areproviding all of our listeners
with a free, customized reporton how you can best eliminate
personal and business debt,based on your unique situation.
So lots of families have usedthis report to eliminate all
their debt, including mortgages,in less than nine years or less
without spending any additionalmoney.
So get debt free by going tomindfulmarketplaceshowcom.
(06:27):
And lastly, in the investmentscolumn, I want to hit on the
National Coalition for CommunityCapital and the work they are
starting in my old home state ofMichigan.
Nc3, or National Coalition forCommunity Capital, will roll out
a statewide educational programin Michigan for startup
businesses to pursue investmentcapital from their community as
part of their two and a halfyear project through the program
(06:49):
, nc3 says the first stage is tointegrate with existing
educational programs conductedby the Michigan Entrepreneurial
Support Organizations.
They recently held an initialcollaboration meeting with
organizers from across Michiganto provide valuable input on
potential organizationalpartners and benefit Michigan
entrepreneurs and communities.
(07:10):
All right, that is the balancesheet and now we're going to get
back to.
I'm looking forward really hereto introducing you all and
getting to learn as much as wecan here from someone who has
quite an extensive background instartup investing in creating
some really cool things.
We had a kind of a connection,because one of my favorite
(07:32):
things in the entire country,one of my favorite businesses,
is an art business and itstarted in Albuquerque, new
Mexico, and I love it.
It's called Meow Wolf.
I've gone to all three of thelocations that they've had, and
so I was very excited to learnit's called Meow Wolf.
I've gone to all three of thelocations that they've had, and
so I was very excited to learn,drew, that you were one of the
original.
You were the original.
You were the CFO of Meow Wolfwhen it first started.
Is that right?
You're?
Drew (07:52):
still muted.
Joel (07:52):
Yeah, okay.
Drew (07:53):
There we go.
Yeah, I got to be first CFO.
The organization had existedbefore me, been together for a
number of years, but I got to bethe first CFO as we start to
formalize and become a realbusiness and get our doors open,
first in Santa Fe, then inDenver, las Vegas, now outside
of Dallas and Grapevine, andsoon in Houston and maybe coming
(08:13):
to a city near where you are,your listeners.
Joel (08:16):
Yeah, I hope so.
It's such a great communityspace In addition to being such
an experience I found if you'reever in, there's one in Vegas,
there's one in Dallas nowColorado and Denver and in Santa
Fe, and if you're ever in anyof those areas, I highly
recommend checking out Meow Wolffor sure.
So, Drew, give us a littlebackground.
(08:39):
I know that you are now thepresident of the New Mexico
Angel Investors.
Talk to us a little bit abouthow you got there out of all
places.
Was that sort of where youdecided to go when you were
younger and you set out on apath, or was that a path that
sort of came your way?
Drew (09:03):
of came your way.
Yeah, so I live in Santa Fe,new Mexico, joel, so any of your
listeners who are there, fellowZias, welcome to Drop Me a Line
.
Reach me at.
Drew at mmangelscom and I grewup in North Carolina, so
appreciation to those withinNashville and the whole
Appalachian region.
And I've been in New Mexico for16 years, so for many that still
makes me an outsider in a placethat goes back many generations
or even thousands of years.
So for many, that still makes mean outsider in a place that
goes back many generations oreven thousands of years.
(09:25):
And I've always had a passionfor supporting New Mexico and
making sure that it can be agood place to live for everybody
and a good place for the future.
And my path on AngelDum rightto lead an angel group was the
work that I first did with MeowWolf, which is a company which
raised we were fortunate toraise more than $100 million
(09:47):
during my tenure, and we are aregistered B Corporation, a
certified B Corp right, so weare a socially responsible
company and I've been motivatedaround business for good and
impact for a long, long time.
And then, from my work withthis startup, meow Wolf, I then
did what's called fractionalexec work, where I worked as a
(10:10):
part-time CFO for a number ofstartups.
After Meow Wolf, there's agreat company called Electric
Playhouse, and then Build withRobots, and then DashLX.
And from having done that kindof being on the other side of
the table, so to speak, I thengot asked to lead our angel
network, because I'd worked witha lot of the angels over time.
Joel (10:33):
So you mentioned being a B Corp.
What is it about the work thatyou all were doing that that, I
guess, alleged you made you wantto seek out that certification
and also justified having thatcertification.
Drew (10:46):
Yeah, so do our listeners know about that, or should we
start with some definitions?
Joel (10:49):
Yeah, I think it'd be good to do a brief.
Just a quick overview on whatthat means for anyone who's new.
Yeah.
Drew (10:55):
Right, okay.
So imagine you're in thegrocery store and you're buying
some organic food, right?
And you look at the packagingIf it's certified organic,
there's going to be a littleearth on the back, and so that's
the way you know that it'sactually organic.
Because a lot of people makeclaims about food.
Something might be natural.
What is natural made Stuff likethat, and in the business world
(11:15):
, we were faced with some of thesame challenges.
This has happened in forestry.
This has happened in forestry.
This has happened in organicfood.
This has happened in clothingand business.
The question is how do you knowyou're a good business, right?
So we've got folks likePatagonia Ben and Jerry's that
are really well known and, infact, are stronger businesses
because of their communitymindedness, because of their
(11:37):
leadership, because theirdedication to the environment
and the earth.
But if you're not one of thoseiconic brands, how do you show
your bona fides?
And so there was an effort tocertify as a B corporation, a
beneficial corporation,something that's good for the
world.
In addition, you also canregister your legal
certification as a B Corp.
(11:58):
So those are two differentthings you could be a regular
company and certified, or youcan choose your legal
registration as one of these BCorps and so I started a
consulting firm, first in DC andthen we were the first B Corp
in New Mexico 15 years ago,because I really was committed
around this idea of business forgood.
(12:19):
You can do well by doing good.
You can use business to helpcommunity-minded efforts and
nonprofits and you can makereturns for people beyond just
financial value creation.
Joel (12:32):
Right, and that gets to the phrase that I used at the
top of the show, which is thatthere's more than just one
bottom line, and that's actuallythe phrase that often gets used
by social enterprises or by BCorps is there's an idea of a
triple bottom line, or I've evenheard the idea of the quadruple
bottom line.
What are those other bottomlines in your mind?
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat's in the certification too,
(12:52):
but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom
lines in your mind.
I mean, we can talk aboutwhat's in the certification too,
but I'm also interested in what, to you, are those other bottom
lines.
Drew (13:01):
Yeah.
So there was the single, thenthey got to double right, so
there was social and financial.
Then we added the triple onewith the environment, or what
they called the three Ps peopleplanet or what they called the
three Ps people planet purpose.
And I also am an adherent ofthe quadruple bottom line.
There's some information aboutit If you just Google it.
(13:28):
New Zealand, the nation of NewZealand, actually adapted it as
a means to start measuring theirprogress towards UN development
goals and then we wrotesomething about that.
In my consulting firm, which iscalled Upspring Associates, we
have a resources page and we dida little brief on this
quadruple bottom line, or thefour Ps and the fourth one.
It can be spirituality, can becommunity, but the things that
(13:49):
kind of cohere us as a peoples,and I think it's very valuable
because ultimately I think it'swhat's going to make our world a
better place and actually justkeep our world sustainable.
But I think it's really truethat you can do more than just
financial econometrics andequations to show why something
(14:11):
is worthwhile.
Joel (14:13):
Right, what are those other metrics that someone can
use to determine something likea?
You know, it's very easy todetermine a financial value,
it's very easy to look at thenumber and say, okay, here's
what it is right, verymeasurable.
That's what's nice about it.
But what are some?
How, how would you measure someof those other, those other
bottom lines, like you know, theenvironment, or like your
(14:35):
community, the things thatreally make life life?
Drew (14:39):
Yeah, there's tons of ways .
It's just that there aren't asmuch social scientists who have
studied it.
So that's where the argumentscome about.
But some people might haveheard of the index of happiness
right, which is the idea thatsome of our smaller countries
are happier than, say, americansor others in another way to
look at value or well-being, andso that's a fun thing to look
(15:00):
at If you're a propeller headlike me, really like data and
statistics.
There's something called theGIN, g-i-i-n, the GIN, and
that's been kind of a centralrepository in a membership
organization to have measurementmechanisms.
The UN, with its sustainabledevelopment goals, sdgs, has
created a number of ways to haverubrics or mechanisms, of ways
(15:22):
to measure stuff towards theirgoals, such as are kids in
school or girls in school?
Do people have access to water?
Is it safe and clean?
Do they have roofs over theirhead?
So these are things that youcan count and from counting them
you can place some sort ofvalue on them.
Things that are closer to theAmerican consciousness is.
(15:44):
I just read an article aboutWest Virginia right and coal
country.
But you can actually look atthe cancer rates, you can look
at the air quality and these arethings that are pretty easy to
measure and you can't argueabout it.
Right, the cancer rates are orthey aren't.
Now you can argue about whythose cancer rates are and who's
to blame or how it came about,but you can't argue with the
(16:07):
fact that West Virginians aredying 15 years on average
earlier than most of America dueto air quality, cancers,
poverty and other healthimplications.
Joel (16:19):
Yeah, it reminds me we actually got to meet for the
audience.
Drew and I got to meet at areally fantastic conference
called Neighborhood Economics,and one of the speakers at that
conference I remember talkedabout showed a map of the city
we were in, which is San Antonio, and showed different
neighborhoods on that map and indifferent neighborhoods, the
(16:43):
rates of all different kinds ofdiseases were different, based
on a variety of factors.
You know income, housing,access to healthcare, access to
you know community services,access to greenery and nature,
but one thing that I took awayfrom that was really stunning
was that you know your zip codedetermines your longevity and
your health and life, more soeven than your DNA code.
(17:03):
I was curious if there'sanything from that conference
that you really that reallyspoke to you or you really took
away from in regards to the workthat you guys are doing.
Drew (17:14):
Yeah.
So Neighborhood Economics ashout out to Kevin Jones and the
people who are organizing that.
My understanding, after beingin Mississippi last year, san
Antonio, this year, they'recoming to Asheville and then
they'll be in other places.
And what really inspired meabout that group, joel, is the
idea of faith-based efforts andthat's not new, right, I mean
(17:35):
the apartheid movements and someof our earliest ESG and faith
and emotional or models-based orvalues-based investing was from
a faith-based community.
Right, and it makes sense.
Right, you should invest thatis in alignment with your
beliefs and you don't have to beradical.
(17:56):
I'm Jewish, I was raised Jewish,I think I'm culturally Jewish,
but also the cultural sides ofthings, whether I'm Native
American or whether I'm Jewish,christian, buddhist, whatever it
is.
I think there's a lot of thingswe can agree upon and so can't
we invest in ways that we feelgood about with our retirement
or other means to be able to seea better community, see a
(18:19):
better local neighborhood and beable to earn a return?
And I think that theconversation around that, with
so many thoughtful peoplenationwide that all had the same
thinking, is very powerful, andI don't think in America we're
encouraged to have theseconversations, right, it's rare,
at least in my circles.
And so for the listeners toexplicitly go out and do a salon
(18:41):
style right, have a dinnerwhere you specifically talk
about with your friends, withyour family, what's your goal
around philanthropy, what's yourgoal around investing what's
important to you and then, withthat shared experience, then can
you share opportunities ofspecifics that you might be able
to actually action thesetheories and ideas.
Joel (19:01):
Yeah, it's like if you take the same idea of a triple
bottom line business that says,hey, I want to make money in my
business, but I also want toserve a social good with that
money or with the service thatwe're providing in the process,
it seems like a naturaltransition from having triple
bottom line businesses to triplebottom line investing, because
(19:23):
businesses often take both.
They both take an entrepreneurand someone who's going to do
the work and have the idea, andthey also take capital that's
going to back that.
And so in part two of thisconversation we're going to
really dive deeper into thatside of things, into the triple
bottom line half of theinvesting, half of triple bottom
line business, I should say.
And so I'm really lookingforward to get to dive in with
(19:46):
Drew on that here and talk moreabout what they're doing with
New Mexico Angels and what itlooks like to expand local and
impact investing away from aplace where just a few people
are doing it towards a placewhere it's something common,
where we can all do it and it'ssomething we can all get
involved in.
So make sure to listen to thatnext week.
(20:08):
Here on Biz Radio US, you canalso listen to all of the back
episodes, obviously on the site,but also on on the site, but
also on Spotify, itunes,iheartradio, youtube.
Now we're up on video onYouTube, so subscribe to us
there and make sure to tune backin next time for part two of my
conversation with Drew Tulchian.
And until next time, rememberwe are each other.
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