May 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Tired of wasting time and money on hiring the wrong people? Dr. Michael Neal knows your pain. As both an optometrist running his own practice and the founder of Build My Team, he's cracked the code on finding and keeping top talent without the traditional headaches.
The journey began in rural Alberta, Canada, where Dr. Neal grew up in a town so small it didn't even have a traffic light. His path to entrepreneurship started unexpectedly as a high school co-op student working as a secretary in an eye care office (a position he admits he was terrible at). What drew him to optometry was the perfect combination of helping people while running a business.
But like so many healthcare professionals and business owners, Dr. Neal found himself trapped in the nightmare of constant hiring and rehiring. "Talk to any doctor who's in their own practice. It's the number one problem we all face," he explains. After pulling out his hair in frustration, he began studying how elite hospitality companies like Disney and Four Seasons hired their exceptional staff.
What he discovered fundamentally changed his approach: ditch the resumes, stop trying to "fix" mediocre performers, and focus instead on natural strengths and talents. "Using resumes to hire entry-level positions is a complete waste of time," Dr. Neal asserts. "What does a resume actually tell you? The answer is nothing, virtually nothing."
Perhaps most surprising is Dr. Neal's counterintuitive advice on experience: for most entry-level positions, you're actually better off hiring someone without experience. Why? Because experienced hires bring bad habits that need to be "untrained" before they can adapt to your way of doing things.
The impact of proper hiring extends beyond just individual performance. As Dr. Neal explains, "A players on a team only want to work with A players. They'll tolerate B players, but as soon as you ask them to work with a C player, they're gone." Want to transform your company culture? Start by hiring better people.
Ready to transform your hiring process? Visit buildmyteam.com to schedule a free consultation and learn how their assessment-based approach can help you find the right people with 97% certainty.
Thanks for listening & being part of the Mindset Cafe Community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe.
We all about that mindset.
Gotta stay focused.
Now go settle for the last.
It's all in your head how youthink you manifest.
So get ready to rise, cause weabout to be the best.
Gotta switch it up.
Gotta break the old habits.
Get your mind right.
Turn your dreams into habits.
No negative vibes, onlypositive vibes.
What is up, guys?
(00:20):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Mindset Cafe podcast.
It's your boyin, and today weare joined by a special guest,
dr mike, dr michael neal.
He is a practicing optometrist,he is an entrepreneur and he is
an expert in really the hiringstrategy.
As the founder and ceo of buildmy team, dr neal has
(00:41):
transformed his own hiringstrategies into a game changing
solution that now serves hisclients in eight healthcare
professions across 40 states andCanada.
So that is no small feat.
So you know, without furtherado, I don't want to get too
much into his stories.
I love hearing it from them,you know.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your day.
Thanks so much, evan.
(01:01):
I'm excited to be here.
So let's dive in, right?
You know what was your?
I always like to you knowbefore we get into, like the
accolades and everything likethat.
What was your bring up?
You know what led you to.
You know go the doctor routeand you know entrepreneur route.
But what was your bring up?
What was your childhood like?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, I lived.
So I grew up in rural, likeliterally rural Pennsylvania,
sorry, canada, alberta, canada.
As a kid I lived in a town of500 people.
We didn't have a traffic light,so that gives you an example of
what rural means up there and Ihad a great, just just.
It was a wonderful place togrow up.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Didn't like it at the time, but in hindsight it was
truly fantastic.
That's so awesome.
And what?
What did your parents do whenyou grew up?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So my dad, uh, folks were divorced early.
Uh, mom's a school teacher anddad, uh did sales, essentially.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, and did he?
You know, was it like door todoor sales.
You know, just I'm kind ofpainting a picture right now.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, like life insurance sales, primarily that
type of thing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, very nice.
And so you know, growing upseeing your parents, you know
you had both parents working andreally, you know, had them to
kind of develop you as well.
But what was that Did you go to?
Obviously you went to college.
You're a doctor.
You know what was your initiallike start in college?
Did you always know you wantedto be a doctor?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I started in eye care as a student.
Co-op ed is the program In highschool.
You have a program trying toget you into the workforce, see
if you like something, that typeof thing.
Well, I did that and started,believe it or not, as a
secretary.
I was awful at it.
Looking back, it was uh, youknow, build my team is all about
(02:47):
your natural strengths andtalents.
I had none for that position,zero we.
I mean.
What I was brought on foressentially and I found this out
later was to help computerizethe practice okay and so like,
did you have a background incomputers?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
or just because you were young, they assumed that
you knew computers yeah, a lotof that background in computers.
Or just because you were young,they assumed that you knew
computers yeah, a lot of thatbackground in computers as well,
but like what kid doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But yeah, the practice had no idea how to do
any of that and I helped them dothat.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Okay, so you were working as a secretary.
What was that transition to,you know?
Move into your next step.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, I realized that I really liked iCare and iCare
is a for an entrepreneur.
It's kind of interestingbecause you get to run a
business, but the business ishelping people and making them
see, so it's a hell of a great.
It's kind of.
I honestly think it's a bit ofa noble profession.
That sounds arrogant, but youknow, we're helping people see.
(03:45):
So this isn't something thatthat was a tough decision per se
.
I'm always fascinated by howthe visual system works, and if
you're not fascinated, just readup on it.
And I don't know how a personcouldn't be fascinated by it.
But yeah, I got to help peopleand run a business.
That's really what it came downto, and I knew I wanted to do
both.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
No, that's so awesome .
So now you're running abusiness, and what was that?
I mean because you got intooptometry and you're scaling
that business.
What led into you understandingthat you had a different way to
go about hiring and everythinglike that?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, eye rolls for anybody listening on audio.
So why did we get it?
I didn't get into it on purpose.
I didn't get into it to build acompany.
I got into it to solve the mostmiserable problem you can shake
a stick at for a healthcarepractice, and that's a revolving
door of hiring.
Talk to any doctor who's intheir own practice.
(04:39):
It's the number one problemthat we all face.
And so we just we're just hiringthe wrong people over and over.
We were using resumes to hire,we were interviewing people.
We were manipulated ininterviews.
We tried to fix everybody.
We try to be doctors, not, youknow, not business leaders per
se.
We didn't know we were doing itwrong.
(05:00):
We had no training in this.
So what went right?
Random chance, just a randomly,occasionally, somebody great
would come in and make and makethe cut.
But we really didn't know whatwe were doing at all.
And so that transition to buildmy team.
Oh boy, I got to the point backin 2016, where I just pulled,
(05:24):
as you can see, pulled all myhair out, couldn't believe that
other companies were doing thiswell, and like what the heck was
wrong with our practice?
We were hiring the completewrong way.
We didn't know it, as I said.
So I did some executivecoaching with some organizations
, found out how they were hiring, did some research on companies
(05:46):
like Disney, the Four Seasons,ritz-carlton, like really
high-end customer service typepositions where they take
wonderful care of people.
It's an amazing experience whenyou go to these types of
establishments and over thecourse of a while it took a
while reverse engineered howthey were hiring and that's how
it got started.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
That's interesting.
I mean, it's always interestingto me.
Like entrepreneurs, you don'tnecessarily have to reinvent the
wheel.
Sometimes, right, it'sanalyzing what other people are
doing in different industries.
That's working, and how can Iapply that to my industry?
(06:31):
How can I?
What lessons can I take bitsand pieces of to essentially
make my own masterpiece Right?
And so that's what it kind ofsounds like you did.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, there's a lot of people who can invent stuff
from scratch, and I haveinvented things from scratch but
let me tell you that to takesomething that's working in
another industry, and workingwell, and apply it to your own
industry or your own profession,you don't have to reinvent the
wheel.
It's so much faster and youdon't have to, um, make the the
million mistakes that arerequired to commercialize
(06:57):
something.
You know that type of thing, um.
So we ended up taking thisapproach and it has worked out
really, really well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
No, that's awesome.
So I would say, let's start offwith what were some of your
biggest hiring mistakes that youmade early on that really
impacted this direction that youwent.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, if we've got 10 hours for the podcast, I can
list them all but.
I think number one was that wewere hiring fixer uppers works
great in real estate.
You make a bundle of money.
You do that in hiring, you'regetting nowhere.
We would hire the way doctorswould like patients.
We we naturally um are hellbent on helping and fixing
(07:40):
people.
You know them, treating them,all of that stuff.
And what you found out the hardway is that you know we were
looking at the C and D levelperformers and trying to bring
them into a practice and coachthem up to an A and B level
performer.
It doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
You want to be a professionaltime waster?
(08:03):
That's one of the most awesomethings I can think of to waste
time and spin your wheels.
So that's one thing.
The second thing is whencandidates come in and they're
being interviewed by a doctor,they are a lot of times deer in
the headlights type thing.
They aren't going to give youanything close to accurate
(08:23):
answers.
Sometimes we flat out havepretty hardcore manipulation in
those interviews.
They tell you what you want tohear just to get the job, and so
you know again, doctors don'thave any formal experience
interviewing and are very easyto manipulate.
So that was another issue.
Late, so that was another issueand I think also I know this
(08:52):
now, didn't know it then butusing resumes to hire
entry-level positions is acomplete waste of time.
Why do I say that?
Well, what does a resumeactually tell you?
And in the proverbial old daysit used to tell you a decent
amount.
Now it's made up.
There's no way to confirm it.
You try and call references,they're not going to tell you
much of anything.
(09:12):
The resume is entirely authoredby the person trying to get the
job, so they can say whateverthey want.
There's always a level ofembellishment, and the hardest
part was entry-level positions.
Most times the resume doesn'tsay much of anything like
(09:33):
there's just not content onthere.
I worked at this job, I workedat that job, but what does it
tell me about what you're goodat?
And the answer is nothing, likevirtually nothing.
That's the problem with usingresumes to hire for entry-level
positions.
Look, it's a completelydifferent ball game.
If you're hiring a ceo or a cmoor like c-level positions or
senior, senior leaders, that'sdifferent, but for the
(09:54):
entry-level positions it justdidn't work well at all no, it's
.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I mean, I can say from my own experience too I'm
not huge on resumes that with mytrainers and all that kind of
stuff, because you can fluff upyour resume to look amazing, and
then you come in and it's likewhat was all that stuff, all
those words on that paper.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
How many times have you looked at a resume?
You look down, you look up, youlook down, you down, you look
up and you're like are you thesame person that?
Like, am I wrong?
Like, did I print the wrongresume?
Am I like?
The first thing I was thinkingis I screwed something up?
No, actually, this beautifulresume that's now written by
chat gpt and edited by grok andrun through perplexity and
(10:43):
claude, and it's, it's the mostgorgeous thing authored since,
uh, romeo and juliet.
And then you're talking to theperson in front of you.
I'm like hey, bud, you're notshakespeare, you can't even
spell shakespeare.
What is going on here?
There's such a mismatch, youknow this is so true.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
it is so true I've definitely seen a handful of
those and I'm like these aresome big words, you for the
fitness industry that this isjust a base level position.
So I was like this this persondoes know a lot and then all of
a sudden, during the interview,start talking and then you're
like are you, are you certified?
You know, you know what?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Well, the better question is are you certifiable?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Because some of those folks like who, who wrote this
resume, Did mom help you out,right, you know it's, it's so
crazy.
Um, yeah, you know.
So there's a thought, I meanbecause I've heard this saying
and and there's, I guess, twosides of the coin as well for it
.
And I want to get your takewith hiring.
(11:42):
You know, people say that thebest people already have jobs or
aren't looking for jobs.
Right, and I mean to to adegree, I get what, what, why
they would say that, but at thesame time, that's not always the
position.
So how do you weed out, youknow, someone that's good,
someone that's, you know, doingthat fluff?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
fluff.
Yeah, I would argue that thattype of mindset is letting
yourself off the hook when youthink that, oh, all the good
jobs, all the good people aretaken, okay, well, look, as an
entrepreneur, you still got aproblem to solve.
You can't scale a businesswithout people.
It's impossible.
So what we've done with Buildmy team is we created an end to
end process where we will findpeople for our clients based
upon natural strengths andtalents, what they're actually
(12:34):
good at, not what they tell youthey're good at, because that's
usually just made up.
It's what they're actually goodat, and we do that through a
series of assessments.
Um, that's all doneautomatically.
We write the job descriptioninitially for the clients, we
publish it to over 20 differentjob boards and then candidates
just start applying and thosecandidates are asked to take a
(12:57):
set of assessments.
It's all branded for ourclients and they go through the
assessment process or they don't, and that's the first filter.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So it's almost like a pre-screening, essentially.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, we don't only just pre-screen screen, but we
can actually select the peoplewith 97% certainty once they go
through the process.
The whole purpose of it is forour clients to be able to spend
less than an hour's worth of nettime on hiring for a position,
and it's completely automated.
So when we have candidatesapplying, the whole purpose is
(13:39):
to get as many candidates aspossible.
It's a massive filter, if youwill, or funnel I should say,
and so we pour as many peopleinto the top of the funnel as
possible and at the other end ofthe funnel, the bottom end of
it, out pops just a handful ofpeople and by that point in time
we know they can do the job.
Our software literally gives usa thumbs up behind the scenes
(14:00):
on whether or not they can dothe job, and we know that with,
like I said, about 97% certaintydo the job, and we know that
with, like I said, about 97%certainty.
So the next step past that isto do we send them a one-way
video interview and we we'relooking.
We don't care what they looklike, we don't care if they're
male or female, we don't care ifthey're purple, pink, green,
(14:21):
it's completely immaterial.
What we care about is howthey're going to represent your
business.
And you know, luckily, in afitness industry you've got a
lot more leeway than, let's say,a doctor's office.
But what we're really lookingfor is is this person going to
be able to do the job well?
Is it a natural fit for them?
So, for example, we recommendsomebody to your business.
(14:47):
They walk in and we know thatthey can do the job and we know
that it's just a natural fit forthem.
They're just going to show upfor work and be themselves.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Just be themselves all day long and perform.
So why would it be a mistake toI mean looking at a resume
right and doing I mean I get thewhole the screening and're
hiring for a job and you knowthey perform and everything like
that but would it be a mistake?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
to hire someone solely off of experience.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, boy, that's a leading question.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So our feeling on experience company-wide, and
mine personally, is, unless it'sa licensed position, okay, so
you have some certifications,let's say physical trainers or
otherwise I understand that.
But unless it's a licensedposition, you are virtually
always better off to go withsomebody without experience for
(15:40):
entry-level positions.
We've proven that so thoroughlythroughout North America.
I just wouldn't go back to theother way and I'll tell you why.
So for almost all entry levelpositions, you can train the
person very quickly.
Well, one of the things wemeasure because there's a caveat
(16:01):
to this is their speed oflearning.
We actually measure that aspart of the assessments.
If they are not an intelligenthuman being, that's okay, but
they're not going to work formost of our clients.
On the other hand, if they'reimmensely level geniuses, that's
great the world needs a lot ofthose folks but that's also not
going to work because they'regoing to leave most of our
(16:22):
clients because the job isn'tchallenging enough for them.
So there's a sweet spot.
And when it comes to theexperience side of things, now
you get somebody in withexperience.
They tend to be folks who arevery financially motivated.
They can jump from one job toanother, because the people that
(16:43):
do hire experience it's.
It's very easy to get them, butwhen they're coming into your
business you have to untrainthem.
So, especially with smallbusinesses that don't have a lot
of systems and processes inplace, you have somebody coming
in as a business owner.
Do you want them to do it yourway or do you want them to do it
(17:03):
the way that they used to atthe previous business?
Right, right, and sometimesthat can be okay.
Most times it categorically isnot, and so you end up having to
take a person and try andunlearn things, try and stop
those bad habits before youbuild new ones.
It just takes forever to dosomething like that versus
(17:24):
bringing in somebody who doesn'thave those bad habits and is a
natural fit for the position.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
They are off to the races in no time no, I, I agree,
like and I think that's one ofthe biggest things even for,
like our trainers, we, weactually have two levels of
trainers here.
We have non-certified andcertified, and we took the
doctor approach you know, andyou know we always have to have
(17:49):
one certified trainer on thefloor, but it's like sometimes
we'd rather hire a non-certifiedtrainer that is competent, that
is energetic, that is, allthese things we can teach.
The rest they can get.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
The certification later on you know, yes, yes, and
they're going to love you forit, because you took them from
here and you moved them up tohere, up to here, up to here as
they go through this, versussomebody who comes in, who has
the certification and clockpunches, just walks in punches a
clock.
In the fitness industry,especially, enthusiasm is
(18:21):
critical, so you want to get me.
I'm a I'm a long distancerunner.
Um got the Boston marathoncoming up in April.
When I started running in 2022,there was no enthusiasm.
There was, oh my God, like Ican't even.
(18:42):
No, I don't want to do this, no, and there were some folks in
my life who were unbelievablyenthusiastic about it.
And, lo and behold, Iabsolutely love it now.
Without enthusiasm, I wouldstill be on the couch, running
between the couch and the fridge.
That's hilarious.
It was a very heavy remotecontrol for the TV.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You know what I mean heavy remote control for the TV.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean,it's true.
I mean it is true, but I meanit.
All the other stuff comes later.
But there's certain qualitiesthat you need to have to be
successful in a certain job.
So what would those topperformance factors be that you
could predict, you know long,like a long-term employee's
(19:25):
success?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
that you could predict, you know, like a
long-term employee's success.
Well, I mean, it depends on thetype of business.
So in healthcare, for example,being detail-oriented is
critical.
If you are not detail-oriented,I'm telling you it's not going
to work out.
If you can't follow processgenerally doesn't work so well,
(19:49):
because healthcare is all aboutdetails and following process.
If you are somebody who andnotice, I didn't say personality
at all yet right.
You know, if you're outgoing,terrific.
If you're more of an introvert,terrific.
There are positions foreverybody in those types of
roles.
On the fitness side of things,in terms of things that you look
(20:20):
for for success, I think numberone enthusiasm.
Maybe it's not number one, butit's certainly in the top ones.
You have to be able tocommunicate well, and so one of
the things we measure is thetype of communication preference
a candidate has.
For example, I talk reasonablyquickly now if you're the type
of person that wants to talklike this and you're matched up
(20:42):
with a guy like me or you'rematched up with a guy like me,
or you're matched up withsomebody who talks twice as fast
as I do.
it's not going to work RightRight.
So there are certain thingsthat are relatively
straightforward, that you canpredict the person's success in
any type of business.
Speed of learning is one, butthere's all kinds of other stuff
(21:03):
as well, and that's specific tothe position.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't want to say it's super interesting.
Um, now going into personalitytypes, like you were saying,
because you, you could, I'm not.
I'm not not personality typesper se, like for for hiring
right, but meaning that, meaningthat everybody has their own
personalities right and youmight hire the best person or a
(21:26):
great person to fill the role,but how does that impact overall
, like team culture or energy orall those other you know,
things that you know a companythinks about.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So just a minor correction.
We don't do personality testing.
In in what we do, it's allabout strengths and talents.
Folks love the whole concept ofpersonality testing like it's a
magic bullet.
It is absolutely not, and moreoften than not it leads you in
the wrong direction.
You can have a bubbly personwho is terrible at the job and
(22:00):
personality testing will flylike congrats.
You pass all the thepersonality tests, but you're
terrible at the job because youdon't have natural strengths and
talents for it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So the maybe help me with your question again, um so,
so you hire, you're hiringsomeone, right, but there's a
natural.
There's a natural team culture,a team energy that gets built
and it's obviously not built onday one of someone getting hired
(22:31):
.
But, at the same time, ifyou're hiring someone that has
all the skills and they fit thisrole, but they're they don't
fit with the rest of the team,like the rest of the team, let's
say, would go to a barbecue andthey wouldn't invite this other
person because, right, completepolar opposites to a barbecue
and they wouldn't invite thisother person because they're
complete polar opposites.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So there will always be a component of that that is
is personality driven.
But and here comes the big butwhat we found is that it's more
based upon performance.
So the way I I describe this isthat a players on a team only
want to work with a players.
They will tolerate b players,but as soon as you ask them to
(23:09):
work with a c player, they'regone.
They're just gonna, they'rejust gonna leave, because an a
player won't even begin to thinkabout being, uh, weighted down
by a c or a d player.
And what we found in terms ofculture, the easiest way to
change your culture in yourbusiness is have more a players
(23:32):
on your teams.
Well, okay, great, what's thisguy talking about?
How, what magic wand do we haveto wave uh in order to make
that happen?
Right?
Well, how do you get more aplayers on your team?
You stop repelling.
You stop providing anenvironment where they're like I
can't wait to get the heck outof here.
How do you do that?
Well, you let the D players andthe C players off your team it
(23:55):
doesn't mean they're bad peopleor you change the roles for them
so that they're now in theirstrengths and their natural
strengths and talents and in.
In our practice we've done both.
The vast majority of folks whoaren't performing well are let
go because they're not workingin the particular job.
That's great for them.
(24:15):
And this is before Build myTeam.
Since Build my Team, this isreally not an issue at all
anymore, because we're hiringfor natural strengths and
talents.
So you get those A players.
They walk into your business.
They do what they love to do,they do what's super easy to
them.
They don't realize why it's sospecial that they get these
(24:36):
types of results.
And, on the other hand, youcontrast that to like a C or a D
player which is going to walkin look at the clock, I got
seven more hours.
Look at the clock, I got sixmore hours.
They're going to do like, likethese are the people who require
spoon feeding.
They require you to be a catherder so you can herd cats all
(24:57):
day, in combination with akindergarten teacher.
So if you enjoy both of thoseroles as a kindergarten teacher
and cat herder and professionalspoon feeder the third role,
then cnd players are for you,but otherwise I mean all joking
aside they have to be let offyour team and, by the way, those
folks.
You're doing them a favorbecause you're going to help
(25:18):
them get a role that they'reactually great at and performing
.
Nobody likes to suck at theirjob no, it's, it's definitely
true.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And with like, with that, do you I mean this?
I guess goes away from like youknow, the build my team, but
with your own practices.
Do you have, I mean this?
I guess it goes away from likeyou know, the build my team, but
with your own practices, do youhave?
You know, you have your hiringprocess.
You hire someone and thenthere's the onboarding process.
Right, do you believe in like aprobationary phase essentially,
where it's like the onboardingand essentially a test run is a
(25:47):
bad word for it, but essentiallyyou have a deadline to
basically be able to fulfill theyou know requirements of the
job or at least demonstrate thatyou are capable of, if not, you
know, essentially basicallytrying to weed out the, the dnc
players you know, ahead of time,I guess well, that's what build
my team does.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So our baked into our process is to not have the C&D
players anywhere near what werecommend to clients.
So you simply don't get C&Dplayers with Build my Team.
You get A players and B plus.
That's it.
That's all we're sending overto our clients for them to
interview and hire.
So those types of folks nevermake the teams because we don't
(26:30):
send them in the first place.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Okay so, but do you still, even for A and B players?
They might be an A player, butmaybe not an A player for your
team.
They're an A player for someoneelse's team because of you know
, whatever X factor or theculture or whatever, right.
So do you?
Do you still believe in thoseprobationary periods or anything
like that?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We generally don't have those probationary periods.
What we find like what makes anA player, it's the fit to the
role.
That's the primary requirementfor them to be fantastic.
So if they have an incrediblytight fit for their natural
strengths and talents and therole requires them to be
themselves, then you're off tothe races where you can.
(27:16):
Also, we had this happen in ourpractice a long time ago.
A person who was working ourfront desk had this is before
build my team absolutelyterrible.
Fit for her natural strengthsand talents disastrous almost
almost got fired.
Fit for her natural strengthsand talents Disastrous Almost
got fired.
Instead, we created a positionthat used her incredibly strong
(27:37):
natural strengths and talentsand I'm here to tell you she's
perfect.
Wouldn't change a thing.
She's unbelievable.
She was extremely empathetic forpatients working at the front
desk, gave away all kinds ofstuff, put their needs first,
couldn't schedule.
Our schedule was a disasterbecause it was all based around
when patients were available,not when the office, the doctor,
(28:00):
the resources like thedifferent equipment was
available, the instruments, andinstead now she's the patient
coordinator and she'sunbelievable at it.
She will do anything to getthese patients in for surgery,
for like referrals.
She prints maps for them,she'll give them driving
direction.
She will walk like you name it.
We have, out of everybody we'vereferred over the last decade,
(28:26):
I think we have less than fivepeople who didn't actually go
through with their appointments.
It's something ridiculously so,and in healthcare that's
unheard of.
We might be in the top onepercent of the nation, um, but
that's how good she is at herjob, and all we did was move her
from one position to anotherbased upon her natural strengths
and talents no, that I meanthat is huge, because it's not
(28:47):
like, just because she didn'tfulfill one one, it's like, okay
, you have to be let go.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
It's like you noticed a strength that could be an
additional strength, that wasn'teven a current job position or
current thought of the business,and now I mean that's going
above and beyond as a business.
That's what sets a businessapart from another business.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, thanks, yeah, what makes her awesome and what
she does now made her terribleat what she did then Same person
, it's just how it goes.
These were differentrequirements of her and she's an
absolutely wonderful humanbeing.
Think the world of her.
(29:29):
And she was worth it.
She was worth the businessmaking that that pivot, but on
the other hand, the businessneeded that at the time.
So it was not only acombination of the right thing
to do, but it was the right, theright thing to do for her but
it was the right thing to do forthe business at the same time.
And just by coincidence, theyintersected that rarely happens,
(29:50):
let's face it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And just by coincidence, they intersected.
That rarely happens, let's faceit.
Oh yeah, definitely.
I mean that is so awesome.
What are some of the mostrewarding parts?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
for you, you know, with helping other businesses
and other professionals reallyfind their A-team.
I mean, in the healthcare sideof things, it's very
straightforward it's deliveringoutstanding patient care.
So you got all these docs andhere's the.
This isn't just docs, it's anybusiness owner, you buy this
business.
A lot of times you're saddledin debt.
Or if you're a doctor, Iguarantee you you're saddled in
(30:29):
debt from student loans.
You don't get any training onhow to hire these, how to hire
folks.
Your expertise lies in somethingincredibly specific On the
doctor side.
It's in doctoring.
On the fitness side of things,you're going to know all kinds
(30:51):
of stuff about how to trainpeople.
Right, because, like I suck atHR.
It's an incredible thing tohear.
I have a company that findspeople, but I'm terrible at HR.
Well, I have a team who'sunbelievable at it.
They are unbelievable at it andI get out of their way and let
them be unbelievable.
Now, if I had to do somethingthat I was horrible at day in,
(31:18):
day out, over and over again,you just become incredibly
depressed.
It's miserable.
And on the doctor side ofthings, it's not like you can
leave.
You got handcuffs, you got debthandcuffs.
You your names on leases, on,uh, financing arrangements, all
kind of that stuff.
Um, I would imagine it's prettydarn similar in the fitness
(31:39):
industry.
all that, all that fitnessequipment doesn't just show up
for free, right, right you knowa lot of capital and
requirements for that type of,so you need people on your team
that can convert that from justdead time, where equipment's
sitting there, to people usingit and paying the fees.
No, definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You know standing team, yeah, so what were the
some of the mindset shifts thatyou've had along your
entrepreneurial journey, fromstarting your first practice to
you know growing it, and nowwith the whole, you know growing
it, and now with the whole, youknow build my team's company as
well.
What were some of those levelsof mindset, you know shifts,
that you've had to have?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Well, moving away from the resume was critical,
but I didn't know what to moveaway from or what to move away
to.
I should say and build, my teamprovides that as a.
I don't have anything to dowith hiring people in our own
practice now Build, my Teamhandles it all.
So if we need, if somebody'smoving, we say we need a
(32:41):
technician or a secretary, oneshows up and they're fantastic.
I mean, that's, I'm notexaggerating, that's how it
works for us.
So it was moving away from theresume.
The second thing was the conceptof hiring for strengths and
talents.
I cannot tell you how hard itwould get me to go back to being
(33:07):
to the old way.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10foot pole.
So for your listeners out thereand folks watching, imagine you
go to the old way.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10foot pole.
So for for your listeners outthere and folks watching,
imagine you go to the eye doctorand the eye doctor says hey,
what's your glasses prescription?
And you say well, today I thinkit's blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And the eye doctor goes okay,here's your prescription.
It doesn't measure anythingdoesn't measure anything that
(33:31):
sound like a solid plan.
It's a disaster, right, youwouldn't even know where to
start.
But that's how we do hiring.
That's how traditional resumehiring is done.
Build my team.
We measure the heck out of thecandidates that are coming in.
We know exactly what they'regood at and when we send over a
candidate to our clients to hire, they're going to hire them.
We're at about 97% certaintythat they can do the job to that
(33:54):
process.
So the big shift there withstrengths and talents is I would
never, ever, ever, go back tothe regular hiring approach
because I've, you know, ourcompany has discovered a way and
commercialized a way to findthose a players reliably
throughout north america andit's you know, as you try to
(34:15):
scale a business, you realizevery quickly that, um, unless
your team's fantastic, you'renot going anywhere no,
definitely so.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
The final question I have for you right and I know I
didn't give this to you ahead oftime because I like the first
thing that comes to mind I willpreface it by saying it's not a
tombstone.
For some reason, people startto give me that answer.
It is the Dr Mike's legacy wall.
On this legacy wall, it is onelasting message that you would
(34:50):
leave for the up-and-cominggenerations.
Basically, this lesson can beshorter or long.
It's whatever you've learnedalong your life's journey that
you would like to leave.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Holy cow, that's wild .
I have a couple that popped themind right off the bat in terms
of legacy.
I think helped tens ofthousands of candidates get
(35:37):
better jobs.
Helping people.
That's the work legacy From aleadership standpoint,
leadership by example.
Nothing comes touches that.
You have to lead by example, nomatter what.
If you're the type of leaderthat doesn't lead by example, go
get a job, because yourbusiness is going to tank, and I
don't know exceptions to thatat all.
And something else that hasmore personal is be kind and
work your butt off.
Those two things areundervalued in the culture, the
culture today, and I don't knowvery many extremely successful
people who, um, who don't havethose two in their um.
(36:00):
You know their talent sets itis very true.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The lead by example and be kind and work about all
three of those, like people wantto to help you build your
vision.
If, if they know you care aboutthem right, they want to be
that now it's part of theirvision, right?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
so that I I agree with that 100 but you have to
authentically care about themtoo, right?
I mean, you can't just, youcan't just, uh, oh, we care
about you because it's on ourmission statement.
That's garbage.
You either do or you don't.
I mean, one thing that humansare fantastic at is determining
(36:37):
if somebody's authentic or fullof it, and so, as a leader, you
have to be authentic.
Be honest.
All that stuff and things wereyou know the universe will work
very hard to make you successful.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's awesome.
Where can people connect withyou and learn more about what
you have going on, as well asbuild my teams?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Sure Uh build my teamcom.
That's our website.
So for anybody out there in thefitness industry or any other
listeners that wants to uh, totake our approach, best thing to
do is go to build my teamcom,schedule a consultation and just
start telling our team membersit's a free phone call, of
course, but start telling ourteam members just unload,
(37:19):
absolutely unload on them.
Here's all the problems I'mhaving.
I hear like the more honest andcandid you can be, the more we
can help you.
That's awesome and it's okay toadmit you have no idea, or you
have some idea and it's notworking out.
That's totally okay.
That's what we do.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's awesome.
I'll put that in the show notes, guys, as well, as it'll be.
If you're watching on YouTubethe video description, make sure
you guys share this episodewith a friend, right?
Make sure you guys help someoneelse understand the mindset of
not only hiring.
But there's a flip side to it.
You know there's the employeeside, right?
You know getting hired.
You know if you want to becomean, a player, you need to
(37:58):
understand what the job actuallyentails and do your best to
fulfill it.
Don't just clock in, clock out,but with you know.
That being said, I want tothank you again, you know, for
taking the time out of your dayto hop on and drop so much
knowledge for the Mindset Cafe.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
This was fantastic.
You're an outstandinginterviewer, by the way.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Outstanding.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
We'll definitely talk soon.
Guys got my mind on the prize.
I can't be distracted.
I stay on my grind, no time tobe slackin'.
I hustle harder, I go againstthe curve Cause I know my mind
(38:37):
is rich to be collected.
Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe.
We all about that mindset.
Gotta stay focused.
Now go settle for the last.
It's all in your head how youthink you manifest.
So get ready to rise, cause weabout to be the best.
Gotta switch it up.
Gotta break the old habits.
Get your mind right.
Turn your dreams into habits.
No negative vibes, onlypositive vibes.
What is up, guys?
(00:20):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Mindset Cafe podcast.
It's your boyin, and today weare joined by a special guest,
dr mike, dr michael neal.
He is a practicing optometrist,he is an entrepreneur and he is
an expert in really the hiringstrategy.
As the founder and ceo of buildmy team, dr neal has
(00:41):
transformed his own hiringstrategies into a game changing
solution that now serves hisclients in eight healthcare
professions across 40 states andCanada.
So that is no small feat.
So you know, without furtherado, I don't want to get too
much into his stories.
I love hearing it from them,you know.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your day.
Thanks so much, evan.
(01:01):
I'm excited to be here.
So let's dive in, right?
You know what was your?
I always like to you knowbefore we get into, like the
accolades and everything likethat.
What was your bring up?
You know what led you to.
You know go the doctor routeand you know entrepreneur route.
But what was your bring up?
What was your childhood like?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, I lived.
So I grew up in rural, likeliterally rural Pennsylvania,
sorry, canada, alberta, canada.
As a kid I lived in a town of500 people.
We didn't have a traffic light,so that gives you an example of
what rural means up there and Ihad a great, just just.
It was a wonderful place togrow up.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Didn't like it at the time, but in hindsight it was
truly fantastic.
That's so awesome.
And what?
What did your parents do whenyou grew up?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So my dad, uh, folks were divorced early.
Uh, mom's a school teacher anddad, uh did sales, essentially.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Okay, and did he?
You know, was it like door todoor sales.
You know, just I'm kind ofpainting a picture right now.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, like life insurance sales, primarily that
type of thing.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Okay, very nice.
And so you know, growing upseeing your parents, you know
you had both parents working andreally, you know, had them to
kind of develop you as well.
But what was that Did you go to?
Obviously you went to college.
You're a doctor.
You know what was your initiallike start in college?
Did you always know you wantedto be a doctor?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I started in eye care as a student.
Co-op ed is the program In highschool.
You have a program trying toget you into the workforce, see
if you like something, that typeof thing.
Well, I did that and started,believe it or not, as a
secretary.
I was awful at it.
Looking back, it was uh, youknow, build my team is all about
(02:47):
your natural strengths andtalents.
I had none for that position,zero we.
I mean.
What I was brought on foressentially and I found this out
later was to help computerizethe practice okay and so like,
did you have a background incomputers?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
or just because you were young, they assumed that
you knew computers yeah, a lotof that background in computers.
Or just because you were young,they assumed that you knew
computers yeah, a lot of thatbackground in computers as well,
but like what kid doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
But yeah, the practice had no idea how to do
any of that and I helped them dothat.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Okay, so you were working as a secretary.
What was that transition to,you know?
Move into your next step.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, I realized that I really liked iCare and iCare
is a for an entrepreneur.
It's kind of interestingbecause you get to run a
business, but the business ishelping people and making them
see, so it's a hell of a great.
It's kind of.
I honestly think it's a bit ofa noble profession.
That sounds arrogant, but youknow, we're helping people see.
(03:45):
So this isn't something thatthat was a tough decision per se
.
I'm always fascinated by howthe visual system works, and if
you're not fascinated, just readup on it.
And I don't know how a personcouldn't be fascinated by it.
But yeah, I got to help peopleand run a business.
That's really what it came downto, and I knew I wanted to do
both.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
No, that's so awesome .
So now you're running abusiness, and what was that?
I mean because you got intooptometry and you're scaling
that business.
What led into you understandingthat you had a different way to
go about hiring and everythinglike that?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, eye rolls for anybody listening on audio.
So why did we get it?
I didn't get into it on purpose.
I didn't get into it to build acompany.
I got into it to solve the mostmiserable problem you can shake
a stick at for a healthcarepractice, and that's a revolving
door of hiring.
Talk to any doctor who's intheir own practice.
(04:39):
It's the number one problemthat we all face.
And so we just we're just hiringthe wrong people over and over.
We were using resumes to hire,we were interviewing people.
We were manipulated ininterviews.
We tried to fix everybody.
We try to be doctors, not, youknow, not business leaders per
se.
We didn't know we were doing itwrong.
(05:00):
We had no training in this.
So what went right?
Random chance, just a randomly,occasionally, somebody great
would come in and make and makethe cut.
But we really didn't know whatwe were doing at all.
And so that transition to buildmy team.
Oh boy, I got to the point backin 2016, where I just pulled,
(05:24):
as you can see, pulled all myhair out, couldn't believe that
other companies were doing thiswell, and like what the heck was
wrong with our practice?
We were hiring the completewrong way.
We didn't know it, as I said.
So I did some executivecoaching with some organizations
, found out how they were hiring, did some research on companies
(05:46):
like Disney, the Four Seasons,ritz-carlton, like really
high-end customer service typepositions where they take
wonderful care of people.
It's an amazing experience whenyou go to these types of
establishments and over thecourse of a while it took a
while reverse engineered howthey were hiring and that's how
it got started.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
That's interesting.
I mean, it's always interestingto me.
Like entrepreneurs, you don'tnecessarily have to reinvent the
wheel.
Sometimes, right, it'sanalyzing what other people are
doing in different industries.
That's working, and how can Iapply that to my industry?
(06:31):
How can I?
What lessons can I take bitsand pieces of to essentially
make my own masterpiece Right?
And so that's what it kind ofsounds like you did.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Well, there's a lot of people who can invent stuff
from scratch, and I haveinvented things from scratch but
let me tell you that to takesomething that's working in
another industry, and workingwell, and apply it to your own
industry or your own profession,you don't have to reinvent the
wheel.
It's so much faster and youdon't have to, um, make the the
million mistakes that arerequired to commercialize
(06:57):
something.
You know that type of thing, um.
So we ended up taking thisapproach and it has worked out
really, really well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
No, that's awesome.
So I would say, let's start offwith what were some of your
biggest hiring mistakes that youmade early on that really
impacted this direction that youwent.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Well, if we've got 10 hours for the podcast, I can
list them all but.
I think number one was that wewere hiring fixer uppers works
great in real estate.
You make a bundle of money.
You do that in hiring, you'regetting nowhere.
We would hire the way doctorswould like patients.
We we naturally um are hellbent on helping and fixing
(07:40):
people.
You know them, treating them,all of that stuff.
And what you found out the hardway is that you know we were
looking at the C and D levelperformers and trying to bring
them into a practice and coachthem up to an A and B level
performer.
It doesn't work.
It just doesn't work.
You want to be a professionaltime waster?
(08:03):
That's one of the most awesomethings I can think of to waste
time and spin your wheels.
So that's one thing.
The second thing is whencandidates come in and they're
being interviewed by a doctor,they are a lot of times deer in
the headlights type thing.
They aren't going to give youanything close to accurate
(08:23):
answers.
Sometimes we flat out havepretty hardcore manipulation in
those interviews.
They tell you what you want tohear just to get the job, and so
you know again, doctors don'thave any formal experience
interviewing and are very easyto manipulate.
So that was another issue.
Late, so that was another issueand I think also I know this
(08:52):
now, didn't know it then butusing resumes to hire
entry-level positions is acomplete waste of time.
Why do I say that?
Well, what does a resumeactually tell you?
And in the proverbial old daysit used to tell you a decent
amount.
Now it's made up.
There's no way to confirm it.
You try and call references,they're not going to tell you
much of anything.
(09:12):
The resume is entirely authoredby the person trying to get the
job, so they can say whateverthey want.
There's always a level ofembellishment, and the hardest
part was entry-level positions.
Most times the resume doesn'tsay much of anything like
(09:33):
there's just not content onthere.
I worked at this job, I workedat that job, but what does it
tell me about what you're goodat?
And the answer is nothing, likevirtually nothing.
That's the problem with usingresumes to hire for entry-level
positions.
Look, it's a completelydifferent ball game.
If you're hiring a ceo or a cmoor like c-level positions or
senior, senior leaders, that'sdifferent, but for the
(09:54):
entry-level positions it justdidn't work well at all no, it's
.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I mean, I can say from my own experience too I'm
not huge on resumes that with mytrainers and all that kind of
stuff, because you can fluff upyour resume to look amazing, and
then you come in and it's likewhat was all that stuff, all
those words on that paper.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
How many times have you looked at a resume?
You look down, you look up, youlook down, you down, you look
up and you're like are you thesame person that?
Like, am I wrong?
Like, did I print the wrongresume?
Am I like?
The first thing I was thinkingis I screwed something up?
No, actually, this beautifulresume that's now written by
chat gpt and edited by grok andrun through perplexity and
(10:43):
claude, and it's, it's the mostgorgeous thing authored since,
uh, romeo and juliet.
And then you're talking to theperson in front of you.
I'm like hey, bud, you're notshakespeare, you can't even
spell shakespeare.
What is going on here?
There's such a mismatch, youknow this is so true.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
it is so true I've definitely seen a handful of
those and I'm like these aresome big words, you for the
fitness industry that this isjust a base level position.
So I was like this this persondoes know a lot and then all of
a sudden, during the interview,start talking and then you're
like are you, are you certified?
You know, you know what?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Well, the better question is are you certifiable?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Because some of those folks like who, who wrote this
resume, Did mom help you out,right, you know it's, it's so
crazy.
Um, yeah, you know.
So there's a thought, I meanbecause I've heard this saying
and and there's, I guess, twosides of the coin as well for it
.
And I want to get your takewith hiring.
(11:42):
You know, people say that thebest people already have jobs or
aren't looking for jobs.
Right, and I mean to to adegree, I get what, what, why
they would say that, but at thesame time, that's not always the
position.
So how do you weed out, youknow, someone that's good,
someone that's, you know, doingthat fluff?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
fluff.
Yeah, I would argue that thattype of mindset is letting
yourself off the hook when youthink that, oh, all the good
jobs, all the good people aretaken, okay, well, look, as an
entrepreneur, you still got aproblem to solve.
You can't scale a businesswithout people.
It's impossible.
So what we've done with Buildmy team is we created an end to
end process where we will findpeople for our clients based
upon natural strengths andtalents, what they're actually
(12:34):
good at, not what they tell youthey're good at, because that's
usually just made up.
It's what they're actually goodat, and we do that through a
series of assessments.
Um, that's all doneautomatically.
We write the job descriptioninitially for the clients, we
publish it to over 20 differentjob boards and then candidates
just start applying and thosecandidates are asked to take a
(12:57):
set of assessments.
It's all branded for ourclients and they go through the
assessment process or they don't, and that's the first filter.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So it's almost like a pre-screening, essentially.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Well, we don't only just pre-screen screen, but we
can actually select the peoplewith 97% certainty once they go
through the process.
The whole purpose of it is forour clients to be able to spend
less than an hour's worth of nettime on hiring for a position,
and it's completely automated.
So when we have candidatesapplying, the whole purpose is
(13:39):
to get as many candidates aspossible.
It's a massive filter, if youwill, or funnel I should say,
and so we pour as many peopleinto the top of the funnel as
possible and at the other end ofthe funnel, the bottom end of
it, out pops just a handful ofpeople and by that point in time
we know they can do the job.
Our software literally gives usa thumbs up behind the scenes
(14:00):
on whether or not they can dothe job, and we know that with,
like I said, about 97% certaintydo the job, and we know that
with, like I said, about 97%certainty.
So the next step past that isto do we send them a one-way
video interview and we we'relooking.
We don't care what they looklike, we don't care if they're
male or female, we don't care ifthey're purple, pink, green,
(14:21):
it's completely immaterial.
What we care about is howthey're going to represent your
business.
And you know, luckily, in afitness industry you've got a
lot more leeway than, let's say,a doctor's office.
But what we're really lookingfor is is this person going to
be able to do the job well?
Is it a natural fit for them?
So, for example, we recommendsomebody to your business.
(14:47):
They walk in and we know thatthey can do the job and we know
that it's just a natural fit forthem.
They're just going to show upfor work and be themselves.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Just be themselves all day long and perform.
So why would it be a mistake toI mean looking at a resume
right and doing I mean I get thewhole the screening and're
hiring for a job and you knowthey perform and everything like
that but would it be a mistake?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
to hire someone solely off of experience.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, boy, that's a leading question.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So our feeling on experience company-wide, and
mine personally, is, unless it'sa licensed position, okay, so
you have some certifications,let's say physical trainers or
otherwise I understand that.
But unless it's a licensedposition, you are virtually
always better off to go withsomebody without experience for
(15:40):
entry-level positions.
We've proven that so thoroughlythroughout North America.
I just wouldn't go back to theother way and I'll tell you why.
So for almost all entry levelpositions, you can train the
person very quickly.
Well, one of the things wemeasure because there's a caveat
(16:01):
to this is their speed oflearning.
We actually measure that aspart of the assessments.
If they are not an intelligenthuman being, that's okay, but
they're not going to work formost of our clients.
On the other hand, if they'reimmensely level geniuses, that's
great the world needs a lot ofthose folks but that's also not
going to work because they'regoing to leave most of our
(16:22):
clients because the job isn'tchallenging enough for them.
So there's a sweet spot.
And when it comes to theexperience side of things, now
you get somebody in withexperience.
They tend to be folks who arevery financially motivated.
They can jump from one job toanother, because the people that
(16:43):
do hire experience it's.
It's very easy to get them, butwhen they're coming into your
business you have to untrainthem.
So, especially with smallbusinesses that don't have a lot
of systems and processes inplace, you have somebody coming
in as a business owner.
Do you want them to do it yourway or do you want them to do it
(17:03):
the way that they used to atthe previous business?
Right, right, and sometimesthat can be okay.
Most times it categorically isnot, and so you end up having to
take a person and try andunlearn things, try and stop
those bad habits before youbuild new ones.
It just takes forever to dosomething like that versus
(17:24):
bringing in somebody who doesn'thave those bad habits and is a
natural fit for the position.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
They are off to the races in no time no, I, I agree,
like and I think that's one ofthe biggest things even for,
like our trainers, we, weactually have two levels of
trainers here.
We have non-certified andcertified, and we took the
doctor approach you know, andyou know we always have to have
(17:49):
one certified trainer on thefloor, but it's like sometimes
we'd rather hire a non-certifiedtrainer that is competent, that
is energetic, that is, allthese things we can teach.
The rest they can get.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
The certification later on you know, yes, yes, and
they're going to love you forit, because you took them from
here and you moved them up tohere, up to here, up to here as
they go through this, versussomebody who comes in, who has
the certification and clockpunches, just walks in punches a
clock.
In the fitness industry,especially, enthusiasm is
(18:21):
critical, so you want to get me.
I'm a I'm a long distancerunner.
Um got the Boston marathoncoming up in April.
When I started running in 2022,there was no enthusiasm.
There was, oh my God, like Ican't even.
(18:42):
No, I don't want to do this, no, and there were some folks in
my life who were unbelievablyenthusiastic about it.
And, lo and behold, Iabsolutely love it now.
Without enthusiasm, I wouldstill be on the couch, running
between the couch and the fridge.
That's hilarious.
It was a very heavy remotecontrol for the TV.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
You know what I mean heavy remote control for the TV.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean,it's true.
I mean it is true, but I meanit.
All the other stuff comes later.
But there's certain qualitiesthat you need to have to be
successful in a certain job.
So what would those topperformance factors be that you
could predict, you know long,like a long-term employee's
(19:25):
success?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
that you could predict, you know, like a
long-term employee's success.
Well, I mean, it depends on thetype of business.
So in healthcare, for example,being detail-oriented is
critical.
If you are not detail-oriented,I'm telling you it's not going
to work out.
If you can't follow processgenerally doesn't work so well,
(19:49):
because healthcare is all aboutdetails and following process.
If you are somebody who andnotice, I didn't say personality
at all yet right.
You know, if you're outgoing,terrific.
If you're more of an introvert,terrific.
There are positions foreverybody in those types of
roles.
On the fitness side of things,in terms of things that you look
(20:20):
for for success, I think numberone enthusiasm.
Maybe it's not number one, butit's certainly in the top ones.
You have to be able tocommunicate well, and so one of
the things we measure is thetype of communication preference
a candidate has.
For example, I talk reasonablyquickly now if you're the type
of person that wants to talklike this and you're matched up
(20:42):
with a guy like me or you'rematched up with a guy like me,
or you're matched up withsomebody who talks twice as fast
as I do.
it's not going to work RightRight.
So there are certain thingsthat are relatively
straightforward, that you canpredict the person's success in
any type of business.
Speed of learning is one, butthere's all kinds of other stuff
(21:03):
as well, and that's specific tothe position.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I don't want to say it's super interesting.
Um, now going into personalitytypes, like you were saying,
because you, you could, I'm not.
I'm not not personality typesper se, like for for hiring
right, but meaning that, meaningthat everybody has their own
personalities right and youmight hire the best person or a
(21:26):
great person to fill the role,but how does that impact overall
, like team culture or energy orall those other you know,
things that you know a companythinks about.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So just a minor correction.
We don't do personality testing.
In in what we do, it's allabout strengths and talents.
Folks love the whole concept ofpersonality testing like it's a
magic bullet.
It is absolutely not, and moreoften than not it leads you in
the wrong direction.
You can have a bubbly personwho is terrible at the job and
(22:00):
personality testing will flylike congrats.
You pass all the thepersonality tests, but you're
terrible at the job because youdon't have natural strengths and
talents for it.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So the maybe help me with your question again, um so,
so you hire, you're hiringsomeone, right, but there's a
natural.
There's a natural team culture,a team energy that gets built
and it's obviously not built onday one of someone getting hired
(22:31):
.
But, at the same time, ifyou're hiring someone that has
all the skills and they fit thisrole, but they're they don't
fit with the rest of the team,like the rest of the team, let's
say, would go to a barbecue andthey wouldn't invite this other
person because, right, completepolar opposites to a barbecue
and they wouldn't invite thisother person because they're
complete polar opposites.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
So there will always be a component of that that is
is personality driven.
But and here comes the big butwhat we found is that it's more
based upon performance.
So the way I I describe this isthat a players on a team only
want to work with a players.
They will tolerate b players,but as soon as you ask them to
(23:09):
work with a c player, they'regone.
They're just gonna, they'rejust gonna leave, because an a
player won't even begin to thinkabout being, uh, weighted down
by a c or a d player.
And what we found in terms ofculture, the easiest way to
change your culture in yourbusiness is have more a players
(23:32):
on your teams.
Well, okay, great, what's thisguy talking about?
How, what magic wand do we haveto wave uh in order to make
that happen?
Right?
Well, how do you get more aplayers on your team?
You stop repelling.
You stop providing anenvironment where they're like I
can't wait to get the heck outof here.
How do you do that?
Well, you let the D players andthe C players off your team it
(23:55):
doesn't mean they're bad peopleor you change the roles for them
so that they're now in theirstrengths and their natural
strengths and talents and in.
In our practice we've done both.
The vast majority of folks whoaren't performing well are let
go because they're not workingin the particular job.
That's great for them.
(24:15):
And this is before Build myTeam.
Since Build my Team, this isreally not an issue at all
anymore, because we're hiringfor natural strengths and
talents.
So you get those A players.
They walk into your business.
They do what they love to do,they do what's super easy to
them.
They don't realize why it's sospecial that they get these
(24:36):
types of results.
And, on the other hand, youcontrast that to like a C or a D
player which is going to walkin look at the clock, I got
seven more hours.
Look at the clock, I got sixmore hours.
They're going to do like, likethese are the people who require
spoon feeding.
They require you to be a catherder so you can herd cats all
(24:57):
day, in combination with akindergarten teacher.
So if you enjoy both of thoseroles as a kindergarten teacher
and cat herder and professionalspoon feeder the third role,
then cnd players are for you,but otherwise I mean all joking
aside they have to be let offyour team and, by the way, those
folks.
You're doing them a favorbecause you're going to help
(25:18):
them get a role that they'reactually great at and performing
.
Nobody likes to suck at theirjob no, it's, it's definitely
true.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And with like, with that, do you I mean this?
I guess goes away from like youknow, the build my team, but
with your own practices.
Do you have, I mean this?
I guess it goes away from likeyou know, the build my team, but
with your own practices, do youhave?
You know, you have your hiringprocess.
You hire someone and thenthere's the onboarding process.
Right, do you believe in like aprobationary phase essentially,
where it's like the onboardingand essentially a test run is a
(25:47):
bad word for it, but essentiallyyou have a deadline to
basically be able to fulfill theyou know requirements of the
job or at least demonstrate thatyou are capable of, if not, you
know, essentially basicallytrying to weed out the, the dnc
players you know, ahead of time,I guess well, that's what build
my team does.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So our baked into our process is to not have the C&D
players anywhere near what werecommend to clients.
So you simply don't get C&Dplayers with Build my Team.
You get A players and B plus.
That's it.
That's all we're sending overto our clients for them to
interview and hire.
So those types of folks nevermake the teams because we don't
(26:30):
send them in the first place.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Okay so, but do you still, even for A and B players?
They might be an A player, butmaybe not an A player for your
team.
They're an A player for someoneelse's team because of you know
, whatever X factor or theculture or whatever, right.
So do you?
Do you still believe in thoseprobationary periods or anything
like that?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We generally don't have those probationary periods.
What we find like what makes anA player, it's the fit to the
role.
That's the primary requirementfor them to be fantastic.
So if they have an incrediblytight fit for their natural
strengths and talents and therole requires them to be
themselves, then you're off tothe races where you can.
(27:16):
Also, we had this happen in ourpractice a long time ago.
A person who was working ourfront desk had this is before
build my team absolutelyterrible.
Fit for her natural strengthsand talents disastrous almost
almost got fired.
Fit for her natural strengthsand talents Disastrous Almost
got fired.
Instead, we created a positionthat used her incredibly strong
(27:37):
natural strengths and talentsand I'm here to tell you she's
perfect.
Wouldn't change a thing.
She's unbelievable.
She was extremely empathetic forpatients working at the front
desk, gave away all kinds ofstuff, put their needs first,
couldn't schedule.
Our schedule was a disasterbecause it was all based around
when patients were available,not when the office, the doctor,
(28:00):
the resources like thedifferent equipment was
available, the instruments, andinstead now she's the patient
coordinator and she'sunbelievable at it.
She will do anything to getthese patients in for surgery,
for like referrals.
She prints maps for them,she'll give them driving
direction.
She will walk like you name it.
We have, out of everybody we'vereferred over the last decade,
(28:26):
I think we have less than fivepeople who didn't actually go
through with their appointments.
It's something ridiculously so,and in healthcare that's
unheard of.
We might be in the top onepercent of the nation, um, but
that's how good she is at herjob, and all we did was move her
from one position to anotherbased upon her natural strengths
and talents no, that I meanthat is huge, because it's not
(28:47):
like, just because she didn'tfulfill one one, it's like, okay
, you have to be let go.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
It's like you noticed a strength that could be an
additional strength, that wasn'teven a current job position or
current thought of the business,and now I mean that's going
above and beyond as a business.
That's what sets a businessapart from another business.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, thanks, yeah, what makes her awesome and what
she does now made her terribleat what she did then Same person
, it's just how it goes.
These were differentrequirements of her and she's an
absolutely wonderful humanbeing.
Think the world of her.
(29:29):
And she was worth it.
She was worth the businessmaking that that pivot, but on
the other hand, the businessneeded that at the time.
So it was not only acombination of the right thing
to do, but it was the right, theright thing to do for her but
it was the right thing to do forthe business at the same time.
And just by coincidence, theyintersected that rarely happens,
(29:50):
let's face it.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And just by coincidence, they intersected.
That rarely happens, let's faceit.
Oh yeah, definitely.
I mean that is so awesome.
What are some of the mostrewarding parts?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
for you, you know, with helping other businesses
and other professionals reallyfind their A-team.
I mean, in the healthcare sideof things, it's very
straightforward it's deliveringoutstanding patient care.
So you got all these docs andhere's the.
This isn't just docs, it's anybusiness owner, you buy this
business.
A lot of times you're saddledin debt.
Or if you're a doctor, Iguarantee you you're saddled in
(30:29):
debt from student loans.
You don't get any training onhow to hire these, how to hire
folks.
Your expertise lies in somethingincredibly specific On the
doctor side.
It's in doctoring.
On the fitness side of things,you're going to know all kinds
(30:51):
of stuff about how to trainpeople.
Right, because, like I suck atHR.
It's an incredible thing tohear.
I have a company that findspeople, but I'm terrible at HR.
Well, I have a team who'sunbelievable at it.
They are unbelievable at it andI get out of their way and let
them be unbelievable.
Now, if I had to do somethingthat I was horrible at day in,
(31:18):
day out, over and over again,you just become incredibly
depressed.
It's miserable.
And on the doctor side ofthings, it's not like you can
leave.
You got handcuffs, you got debthandcuffs.
You your names on leases, on,uh, financing arrangements, all
kind of that stuff.
Um, I would imagine it's prettydarn similar in the fitness
(31:39):
industry.
all that, all that fitnessequipment doesn't just show up
for free, right, right you knowa lot of capital and
requirements for that type of,so you need people on your team
that can convert that from justdead time, where equipment's
sitting there, to people usingit and paying the fees.
No, definitely.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You know standing team, yeah, so what were the
some of the mindset shifts thatyou've had along your
entrepreneurial journey, fromstarting your first practice to
you know growing it, and nowwith the whole, you know growing
it, and now with the whole, youknow build my team's company as
well.
What were some of those levelsof mindset, you know shifts,
that you've had to have?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Well, moving away from the resume was critical,
but I didn't know what to moveaway from or what to move away
to.
I should say and build, my teamprovides that as a.
I don't have anything to dowith hiring people in our own
practice now Build, my Teamhandles it all.
So if we need, if somebody'smoving, we say we need a
(32:41):
technician or a secretary, oneshows up and they're fantastic.
I mean, that's, I'm notexaggerating, that's how it
works for us.
So it was moving away from theresume.
The second thing was the conceptof hiring for strengths and
talents.
I cannot tell you how hard itwould get me to go back to being
(33:07):
to the old way.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10foot pole.
So for your listeners out thereand folks watching, imagine you
go to the old way.
I wouldn't touch it with a 10foot pole.
So for for your listeners outthere and folks watching,
imagine you go to the eye doctorand the eye doctor says hey,
what's your glasses prescription?
And you say well, today I thinkit's blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.
And the eye doctor goes okay,here's your prescription.
It doesn't measure anythingdoesn't measure anything that
(33:31):
sound like a solid plan.
It's a disaster, right, youwouldn't even know where to
start.
But that's how we do hiring.
That's how traditional resumehiring is done.
Build my team.
We measure the heck out of thecandidates that are coming in.
We know exactly what they'regood at and when we send over a
candidate to our clients to hire, they're going to hire them.
We're at about 97% certaintythat they can do the job to that
(33:54):
process.
So the big shift there withstrengths and talents is I would
never, ever, ever, go back tothe regular hiring approach
because I've, you know, ourcompany has discovered a way and
commercialized a way to findthose a players reliably
throughout north america andit's you know, as you try to
(34:15):
scale a business, you realizevery quickly that, um, unless
your team's fantastic, you'renot going anywhere no,
definitely so.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
The final question I have for you right and I know I
didn't give this to you ahead oftime because I like the first
thing that comes to mind I willpreface it by saying it's not a
tombstone.
For some reason, people startto give me that answer.
It is the Dr Mike's legacy wall.
On this legacy wall, it is onelasting message that you would
(34:50):
leave for the up-and-cominggenerations.
Basically, this lesson can beshorter or long.
It's whatever you've learnedalong your life's journey that
you would like to leave.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Holy cow, that's wild .
I have a couple that popped themind right off the bat in terms
of legacy.
I think helped tens ofthousands of candidates get
(35:37):
better jobs.
Helping people.
That's the work legacy From aleadership standpoint,
leadership by example.
Nothing comes touches that.
You have to lead by example, nomatter what.
If you're the type of leaderthat doesn't lead by example, go
get a job, because yourbusiness is going to tank, and I
don't know exceptions to thatat all.
And something else that hasmore personal is be kind and
work your butt off.
Those two things areundervalued in the culture, the
culture today, and I don't knowvery many extremely successful
people who, um, who don't havethose two in their um.
(36:00):
You know their talent sets itis very true.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
The lead by example and be kind and work about all
three of those, like people wantto to help you build your
vision.
If, if they know you care aboutthem right, they want to be
that now it's part of theirvision, right?
Speaker 2 (36:17):
so that I I agree with that 100 but you have to
authentically care about themtoo, right?
I mean, you can't just, youcan't just, uh, oh, we care
about you because it's on ourmission statement.
That's garbage.
You either do or you don't.
I mean, one thing that humansare fantastic at is determining
(36:37):
if somebody's authentic or fullof it, and so, as a leader, you
have to be authentic.
Be honest.
All that stuff and things wereyou know the universe will work
very hard to make you successful.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's awesome.
Where can people connect withyou and learn more about what
you have going on, as well asbuild my teams?
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Sure Uh build my teamcom.
That's our website.
So for anybody out there in thefitness industry or any other
listeners that wants to uh, totake our approach, best thing to
do is go to build my teamcom,schedule a consultation and just
start telling our team membersit's a free phone call, of
course, but start telling ourteam members just unload,
(37:19):
absolutely unload on them.
Here's all the problems I'mhaving.
I hear like the more honest andcandid you can be, the more we
can help you.
That's awesome and it's okay toadmit you have no idea, or you
have some idea and it's notworking out.
That's totally okay.
That's what we do.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's awesome.
I'll put that in the show notes, guys, as well, as it'll be.
If you're watching on YouTubethe video description, make sure
you guys share this episodewith a friend, right?
Make sure you guys help someoneelse understand the mindset of
not only hiring.
But there's a flip side to it.
You know there's the employeeside, right?
You know getting hired.
You know if you want to becomean, a player, you need to
(37:58):
understand what the job actuallyentails and do your best to
fulfill it.
Don't just clock in, clock out,but with you know.
That being said, I want tothank you again, you know, for
taking the time out of your dayto hop on and drop so much
knowledge for the Mindset Cafe.
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
This was fantastic.
You're an outstandinginterviewer, by the way.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Outstanding.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
We'll definitely talk soon.
Guys got my mind on the prize.
I can't be distracted.
I stay on my grind, no time tobe slackin'.
I hustle harder, I go againstthe curve Cause I know my mind
(38:37):
is rich to be collected.
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