September 9, 2025 • 29 mins
Feeling overwhelmed by the constant barrage of new programs and initiatives hitting your school? You're not alone. In this thought-provoking conversation, Christine and Tammy tackle the challenge of "initiative clutter" that plagues schools everywhere.
The hard truth is that we've created an unsustainable cycle in education. Research clearly shows meaningful change requires 3-5 years for proper implementation, yet schools typically cycle through initiatives every two years. This creates not just fatigue, but genuine frustration as educators invest time mastering approaches only to abandon them before seeing results. As one host points out, "You haven't really had enough time to see from the data whether it is effective or not."
The hosts distinguish between mandated initiatives (those coming from district or state levels) and self-selected ones, exploring how each presents unique challenges. They emphasize the crucial role school leaders play as gatekeepers who set the tone for implementation. Leaders who dictate "front cover to back cover, no questions asked" create resistance, while those who invite collaboration and contextual adaptation foster sustainable change.
Whether you're a classroom teacher feeling whiplashed by constant change or an administrator trying to balance district mandates with your school's unique needs, this episode offers practical strategies for decluttering your approach. Learn how to evaluate initiatives against your school's strategic plan, identify what truly serves your community, and build your capacity to navigate change with purpose.
Ready to break free from the initiative merry-go-round? Subscribe now and join the conversation about teaching and leading with greater clarity, purpose, and joy.
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
Follow on Instagram @PlanZEducation and @minimalist_ed_podcast.
The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on aless-is-more approach to
education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your school
leadership, edit A MinimalistApproach to Rethinking your
School Ecosystem each week, asthey explore practical ways to
simplify your work, sharpen yourfocus and amplify what matters
(00:40):
most, so you can teach and leadwith greater clarity, purpose
and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Schools are bursting with great ideas, but sometimes
all of those great ideas can endup feeling a little bit chaotic
.
In today's episode we'retalking about when it's time to
declutter, not your classroomshelves but the programs,
projects and initiativescompeting for your school's time
and energy.
We'll explore how to spotwhat's no longer serving your
(01:06):
community and share somepractical ways to streamline so
your focus stays sharp and yourimpact stays strong.
Hello and welcome to thisweek's episode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Tammy and I are chattingtogether today.
How are you, tammy?
I am doing well.
Christine, how are you?
I am fantastic.
(01:28):
I always love our chatstogether.
Today we are talking aboutsomething near and dear to our
hearts and that we wrote aboutin our first book, the
Minimalist Teacher.
Yes, I did have to look at thecover of the book to check the
title there whoops.
But yes, we're talking aboutdecluttering initiatives.
(01:52):
So in our busy school contexts,where it sometimes feel like we
have initiatives coming at usthick and fast all the time, it
can feel like maybe it isimpossible to declutter this
area of our work.
(02:12):
But hopefully we can think alittle bit more about that today
and offer a path forward wherewe can declutter a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, that sounds great.
I do think that we've allexperienced this right.
So, whatever role we're in,most of us have started as
teachers.
I started as a TA and in anyrole that you're in in a school,
you're going to feel this.
So it could be office staff,could be TA, classroom teacher,
(02:44):
specialist.
But I think our school leadersfeel this potentially the most
because the filtering oftencomes through them.
If we're talking about thosebigger picture initiatives right
, because we have large scalemandated district initiatives or
you know, however, regionalinitiatives versus our
(03:07):
self-selected ones, so we'llkind of separate those out.
But the school leader reallydoes have a big job in this kind
of initiative clutter situation, I guess we can call it.
I guess we can call it becausethey do have to look at what the
(03:31):
goals of the school are and isthe initiative going to meet the
priorities for the school?
And if it's something that hasbeen mandated, how do you make
that fit into your schoolculture and what you do already
at your school so it doesn'tfeel like this ball of clutter
that doesn't make sense in ourcontext.
(03:53):
So I know we often talk about,you know, there's tons of
initiatives that come throughand so often we think of that
kind of phrase, initiativefatigue which we have all felt
because you know we'veexperienced all these changes
all the time, like especiallyeducation has, you know, kind of
(04:16):
like almost like a two yearcycle with some things right,
whether it's updating curriculummaterials or new pilot programs
for technology or you knowwhatever.
But there can be some elementof excitement in that, and I
think it's important for us torecognize that.
It's okay to get excited abouta new initiative we want to try
(04:40):
or we've learned about, and socan we maybe use that excitement
as a way to help us streamlineor declutter what's coming at us
.
I don't know, what do you thinkabout that?
Have you felt that?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, I think it's.
I think you brought up a lot ofreally interesting points there
.
The idea of new initiativescoming like every two years is
actually crazy.
Very true, I've seen that overand over again 100%.
But it's crazy when you thinkabout it and anytime you read
anything about successful changemanagement.
(05:17):
I don't think any expert wouldbe recommending that we, you
know, take on a new math programevery two years or take on a
new literacy approach every twoyears.
Because you know, take on a newmath program every two years or
take on a new literacy approachevery two years because you
know, if you really think aboutit carefully, you need, you know
, at least the first year towrap your head around what it's
trying to do.
(05:37):
What are the nuances, how doesthis fit with me and my program
and my community?
And then you need time afterthat to actually get comfortable
with it, get proficient with it, maybe modify it for your
context and so on.
So the idea of doing that everytwo years is really it is
baffling, but I know it doeshappen for sure.
(06:00):
Also, thinking about, yeah, thatexcitement versus fatigue, I
know within my own career Ithink I was always one of those
early adopter people likegetting really excited and like,
yeah, let's go, let's do thisnew approach, this new plan.
And I think some of thatfatigue has actually set in over
(06:23):
the years of teaching becauseyou keep, it just keeps
happening to you over and overagain.
Right, oh, another new thing.
Oh, another new thing.
Oh, another new thing.
And wait, this feels verysimilar to one we've done before
, but now it has a new name.
And so I think over the courseof a career, you can move from
(06:45):
that fatigue to excitement, orexcitement to fatigue as well,
just through the.
You know the ongoinginteraction with these different
initiatives that come at youyeah, I think so, and we know
that it takes.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
you know there's lots of research behind.
You need three to five years ifyou're trying to implement
change, and so if you're tryingto bring in a worthwhile
initiative, you need the time,like you said, that first couple
of years.
You know it's getting to know,and then how does it fit in your
context?
And then you need to collectsome data to see if it actually
(07:21):
works, to see if it actuallyworks Exactly, exactly.
So you know, I remember we hada two-year pilot when I was at
my school in New York and it wason a couple of technology
programs.
You know it was fairly new ideawhen schools were getting
one-to-one devices and I guessin that time, for what it was,
(07:46):
you could collect enough data inthat couple of years.
But at the same time you don'tget to see the growth of
students for that long, right,cause it's only it.
For us it was like grades threeand four.
And then what you know, likewhat do we do?
So now that data is not usableanymore, we don't use that
(08:06):
anymore, like we want to seecontinued change or growth, or,
you know, or does this work ornot.
You know you need longer thanthat to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, how do you know that your context needs a new
initiative or a new programafter that short amount of time?
Like you, haven't really hadenough time to see from the data
whether it is effective or not.
It's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah.
So I think that's where a lotof that fatigue comes in, right,
so we can start out superexcited about something and then
it becomes part of your routineand you're like, okay, well,
we're done, we're not doing thatanymore.
And then you're like deflatedbecause you invested your time
in it, and then you're just donewith it.
So you're almost like why didwe do that?
(08:53):
What was the point?
Which, I mean, is a lot of whatwe talk about.
What's the purpose behindsomething?
And especially if it seems tobe going well, it's become part
of the routine.
You're getting some interestingdata.
Then why would you discontinuesomething that's providing some
value?
And then you know versus like,oh, here's another one, we're
(09:16):
going to try.
This might be better.
Can we hold off?
Yeah for sure.
So yeah, it's the shiny objectsituation, right?
I think.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I think there is a little bit of that coming in for
sure, absolutely, yeah, yeahI'm wondering we shouldn't let
that fatigue.
You know, if there is somethingreally fantastic coming out,
that is an area that you'reenthusiastic and passionate
about, that has some goodresearch backing behind it, we
(09:50):
shouldn't let that fatigue takeaway that excitement we should
still be like let ourselves havethat enjoyment of what we're
passionate about for sure yeah,I agree, and I think, think like
some of the things that I'veseen recently that are, I don't
want to say coming out, butbecause I think they've already
(10:10):
kind of been in the scene.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
But I think it's sometimes the way we think about
something.
So maybe it's not necessarilythis new initiative, but it's a
way of thinking about somethingor a framework we can use so you
hear those words a lot right Tohelp us kind of rethink what an
initiative might be,particularly when we're looking
(10:38):
at things like SEL, maybebecause we know that's just
something, that that's SEL islife.
So we just should be doing thatall the time.
And I know some schools need tohave some kind of program to
help them move along with that,which is fine.
But I think when we have someinitiatives that feel like
(11:02):
natural, natural fits, you knowit doesn't feel like it's an
exhausting thing.
And I think that's when theself-selected versus mandated is
really valuable, because youreally do then get to have a say
.
Oftentimes teachers will youknow they'll get a form or
something to give some feedbackon new programs or new ideas for
(11:27):
what they want to bring intothe school, and so that can just
have such a greater value whenyou get to have, you get to
choose.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think it is unavoidable that we will come
across some mandated initiatives.
I think you know, no matterwhere you work in the world or
what kind of education systemyou're in, at some point you
will come across somethingthat's mandated.
That you don't have a lot ofchoice in, for sure.
But there's a lot.
There's a lot still that youcan do within that mandated
(12:03):
initiative.
For sure, yeah, but if you arein a place where you have the
ability to self-select some,that is freeing it's, it creates
, you know, a feeling ofautonomy and self-efficacy and
things like that.
But you can also be a littlebit scary too, because there is
(12:23):
a lot out there and how do youknow you're choosing the best
version of what is out, right?
Yeah.
So I think both, whether it'smandated or self-selected, I
think there are pros and consfor both, for both different
types of initiatives, for sureyeah, because we know that, uh,
(12:46):
decision fatigue is a real thingtoo, right.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So sometimes it's like just tell us what to do,
just give us the thing, andversus right, versus like, oh
man, we have to go through this.
We got to do our research nowbecause this is the thing that
we're trying to find to matchour school, which, you know,
either way it's still, it'sstill a lot of work.
So, can we think of some goodtips?
(13:13):
Or what tips do we have thatmight be from our book?
Maybe not, because we do have adecision-making tree there
about adoption, and we have ourfunnels, which you know, our
triple P funnels, which are, youknow, looking at the purpose of
something.
What are the priorities withinit?
How do we pare it down?
So if you are faced with, let'ssay, you know, at this time of
(13:36):
the year, you've got a new stateinitiative maybe, and you have
a something that you're lookingfor in terms of I can't even
think of a self-selectedschool-wide initiative.
I can think of a lot ofclassroom ones, because that's
there, those are different too,right.
So you really have to look at,kind of, the scope of your
(14:00):
initiatives as well, but I guess, whether it's in your classroom
.
So if you're choosing some kindof system for your classroom or
a system for your school,there's definitely some things
to think about.
We have mentioned.
(14:20):
You know what best fits yourcontext.
So you have to look at yourschool demographics and the
culture you have created withyour community to ensure that,
whatever you choose.
So I mean you and I don't oftenpromote like behavior programs,
(14:42):
but that's what's coming tomind, right Because schools do
use like PBIS or I guess, likesomething like character
building, like character strongor you know there's those kinds
of programs as well which isn'ta behavior program, but you know
it's something that people useand has some value to it.
(15:02):
Does that fit your schoolcontext?
Is that what you're looking for, right?
Is that what your school needs,versus like do you need
something more academic, or doyou need something for
extracurriculars?
Or you know there's just somany buckets that you can be
looking at for your school.
So you really have to look atthe context.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Other thoughts there I think another big one to
consider is your schoolstrategic plan as well, because
if you have got, you know, amission of your school, a
five-year plan for your school,and then this initiative doesn't
align with any of that, you'regoing to have a really hard time
(15:48):
A finding time for it in all ofthe things that are in your
plan and your mission, but alsojust getting the motivation and
buy-in for yourself and forothers if it just seems like
this added on thing.
So I think we always need to begoing back to that big purpose
(16:10):
question and looking at thingslike our school mission and
vision and values and and whatyou, what your plan is in
whatever time frame that yourschool has outlined that in.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, that's so important.
Also, if you're facing amandated initiative, what are
the parts within that thatalready align to what you're
doing at your school?
So, anytime that you canstreamline something, right, so
like kind of really pick apartwhat your initiatives are and
(16:49):
what aligns well, and you know,if you don't have to introduce
something new, then don't justbuild it into what you already
do.
And I'm just trying to think ofan example.
One big initiative that iscoming up in different states is
(17:10):
cell phone use for students inclassrooms, and so I think
there's a couple of schools ofthought on this, right, I've
seen some like Instagram reelsof people talking about it, and
one thought is you know, thekids just don't bring their
phones to school, and if they'rebrought to school, they are
(17:33):
held for parents to come andpick them up.
Now, if this policy isn't onethat aligns with what you've
been doing at your school, right?
So let's say, your schoolalready has a cell phone policy
and it's working well, like,let's say, kids are allowed to
(17:53):
keep it in their backpack, sothey just have to put it in a
bucket, but you know it's beenworking.
But you know it's been working,how do you align with a larger
scale mandate like that, wherenow it's like the complete
opposite end right, like youcan't bring your phone to school
kind of situation.
That might be a tricky one,right?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I think it relates back to what you were saying
earlier about leadership's rolewith all of this, because I
think in a way, they'regatekeeping how we respond and
react to the initiatives andthey really set the tone as well
.
So if the leadership is takingthe approach of like you're
(18:40):
doing this, you're doing ittoday, you have no choice,
you're doing it today, you haveno choice, you're doing it from
front cover to back cover,that's it, no questions asked.
Versus let's look at thistogether, let's tackle it
together, let's pull out what welike, what's going to work for
our context, what matches ourschool plan, the needs of our
(19:02):
community and, you know, seewhat we can, you know, leave
behind a little bit maybe andother ones that need to be at
the forefront and the prioritywithin this initiative.
I think those two sorts ofpathways and how you bring in
this mandated initiative aregoing to have very, very
different reactions from yourcommunity as a whole.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, I agree with you, the approach always matters
, right, it doesn't even matterwhat it is, and so if your
context already has somethingfigured out that works, then
that second approach where youknow we're going to look at this
together to see how it alignswith what we do already feels
(19:51):
safer more.
It feels like you're you.
There's a little bit morerespect there, right for you to
be able to make the decisions atyour school um, versus like you
as an expert, to make some goodjudgments.
Yeah, yeah, right lately yeah,and I think that one of the
biggest struggles with cellphones, you know it's just, it's
(20:14):
so different in every school,the thought behind that.
But I had a conversation thissummer with someone about not
banning cell phones inclassrooms because it does take
away someone's autonomy, right,like it takes away someone's
agency.
To like, if you are in Englishclass and you need to find a
(20:34):
quote for something, you canjust like find one on your phone
real quick.
But again it's like setting theparameters Right, find one on
your phone real quick, but againit's like setting the
parameters right, let's it's.
It's sometimes about likeco-creating what the expectation
is, and maybe that's theimportant part with the
initiatives too.
Like, how do you co-create whatthis looks like in your school
(20:56):
or in your classroom so thatit's we're meeting the
expectations of the mandate orthe initiative, whatever?
However you want to look at it,I think we're getting into some
really muddy waters aroundtrying to declutter initiatives
I know we're not possibly notmaking it clearer for anyone.
(21:22):
But I mean it's a goodconversation to have, because
this is how complicated it isoften at schools, and so I think
, as well as collective groups,yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I mean what we're sayingreally is how do you fit
(21:44):
something that's introduced toyou into what you're already
doing, right?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
How can you streamline, how can you take the
pieces that best fit yourcontext and do that
collaboratively, so that voicesare heard For sure, absolutely,
and I think that piece that wewere talking about, of thinking
(22:07):
about the purpose behind it, andthen how are we rolling this
out, how are we introducing itand how are we making it come
alive in our context.
I think that is a really goodanchor point for you to keep
coming back to.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
As these things are coming your way yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So I think for yeah, that's kind of the pare down
pointer right, like you justkind of pinpointing, I guess,
within those initiatives, likereally find the links to your
context.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
That's it.
What is going to benefit yourcommunity the most from this?
What are the real strengthswithin this?
New initiative that you canhighlight, yeah, yeah, in your
community for sure.
New initiative that you canhighlight, yeah, yeah, in your
community for sure?
I think it's important too,when we're talking about this
(23:10):
topic is to think about thatidea of building our individual
capacity, because I think youcould easily fall into this path
of I have no capacity here, Ihave no voice here, this is just
(23:30):
being done to me and I have nosay in this whole situation.
And we do talk about it withinthe book, within the chapter,
but I think it's worthmentioning here as well about
how we can build our capacitywithin our educational context,
so that you don't feel like youwere just at the mercy of the
(23:52):
shifting sands beneath our feetyeah, exactly so what are some
of the ways that individualteachers can build their own
capacity?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Probably one of the most important things would be
to pay attention to what'scoming your way right, get as
much knowledge as you can aboutthe initiative and the way that
it will potentially impact yourschool and then also your
classroom as an individual unitwithin the school, Because I do
(24:35):
think that you know the more youknow, the better off you're
going to be, and then that alsohelps you support your
colleagues as well.
So, just kind of you know,doing thinking collaboratively,
get with people to talk about it, figure out what's going to
(24:55):
work best for your context and,yeah, just getting to know it as
well as you can ask questionstoo and because you know that
you're going to have a part toplay in that initiative.
So you've got to figure outwhat that is as soon as possible
(25:15):
.
I think that's a big piece.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, I think the discussion point is so important
to keep encouraging yourself tohave conversations with people,
whether it's your fellowteachers, whether it's the
parent community, whether it'sthe people above you in the
hierarchy of your context, is tonot shy away from, as you say,
asking the questions and havingthe conversations about it, so
(25:47):
that, yeah, you're keepingyourself informed about what's
going on, but maybe also havinga discourse about, well, what is
the purpose behind this?
What are the threads here thatare the most important parts
that I need to make sure thatI'm doing justice with, and have
(26:08):
you thought about X, y and Zand these other possibilities as
well?
I think, yeah, having thoseconversations, those
professional conversations, arekey to keep building your
capacity as someone who has avoice in these situations.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, I agree, I think those are probably the two
biggest pieces for that.
Yeah, there's just so manythings that we can talk about
with this, because you justmentioned that discourse and it
made me think of something elsewe talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But I'm gonna stop there because we can keep going
we could keep going, but yeah,yeah, as you say it is, it can
get.
It can get very muddy and itcan get very emotional for
people as well, because they'reexperiencing this.
(27:05):
So, hopefully we haven't madethe waters more muddy and we
have actually shined a light ona few things that might be
helpful for you when you'reconsidering all the different
initiatives that are coming yourway.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes, thank you for listening, and if you have
questions, you can always sendus a comment about things like
this as well, because you knowwe're open to more discussion
about all of the ideas that wehave on our shows.
So thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education
Services, supporting educatorswith forward-thinking
professional learning that putsboth student impact and teacher
wellness at the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters and
simplify their practice.
Learn more at planzeducationcom.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast, their practice.
Learn more atplansieducationcom.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(28:33):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional, thank you
.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on aless-is-more approach to
education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your school
leadership, edit A MinimalistApproach to Rethinking your
School Ecosystem each week, asthey explore practical ways to
simplify your work, sharpen yourfocus and amplify what matters
(00:40):
most, so you can teach and leadwith greater clarity, purpose
and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Schools are bursting with great ideas, but sometimes
all of those great ideas can endup feeling a little bit chaotic
.
In today's episode we'retalking about when it's time to
declutter, not your classroomshelves but the programs,
projects and initiativescompeting for your school's time
and energy.
We'll explore how to spotwhat's no longer serving your
(01:06):
community and share somepractical ways to streamline so
your focus stays sharp and yourimpact stays strong.
Hello and welcome to thisweek's episode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Tammy and I are chattingtogether today.
How are you, tammy?
I am doing well.
Christine, how are you?
I am fantastic.
(01:28):
I always love our chatstogether.
Today we are talking aboutsomething near and dear to our
hearts and that we wrote aboutin our first book, the
Minimalist Teacher.
Yes, I did have to look at thecover of the book to check the
title there whoops.
But yes, we're talking aboutdecluttering initiatives.
(01:52):
So in our busy school contexts,where it sometimes feel like we
have initiatives coming at usthick and fast all the time, it
can feel like maybe it isimpossible to declutter this
area of our work.
(02:12):
But hopefully we can think alittle bit more about that today
and offer a path forward wherewe can declutter a little bit.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Yeah, that sounds great.
I do think that we've allexperienced this right.
So, whatever role we're in,most of us have started as
teachers.
I started as a TA and in anyrole that you're in in a school,
you're going to feel this.
So it could be office staff,could be TA, classroom teacher,
(02:44):
specialist.
But I think our school leadersfeel this potentially the most
because the filtering oftencomes through them.
If we're talking about thosebigger picture initiatives right
, because we have large scalemandated district initiatives or
you know, however, regionalinitiatives versus our
(03:07):
self-selected ones, so we'llkind of separate those out.
But the school leader reallydoes have a big job in this kind
of initiative clutter situation, I guess we can call it.
I guess we can call it becausethey do have to look at what the
(03:31):
goals of the school are and isthe initiative going to meet the
priorities for the school?
And if it's something that hasbeen mandated, how do you make
that fit into your schoolculture and what you do already
at your school so it doesn'tfeel like this ball of clutter
that doesn't make sense in ourcontext.
(03:53):
So I know we often talk about,you know, there's tons of
initiatives that come throughand so often we think of that
kind of phrase, initiativefatigue which we have all felt
because you know we'veexperienced all these changes
all the time, like especiallyeducation has, you know, kind of
(04:16):
like almost like a two yearcycle with some things right,
whether it's updating curriculummaterials or new pilot programs
for technology or you knowwhatever.
But there can be some elementof excitement in that, and I
think it's important for us torecognize that.
It's okay to get excited abouta new initiative we want to try
(04:40):
or we've learned about, and socan we maybe use that excitement
as a way to help us streamlineor declutter what's coming at us
.
I don't know, what do you thinkabout that?
Have you felt that?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, I think it's.
I think you brought up a lot ofreally interesting points there
.
The idea of new initiativescoming like every two years is
actually crazy.
Very true, I've seen that overand over again 100%.
But it's crazy when you thinkabout it and anytime you read
anything about successful changemanagement.
(05:17):
I don't think any expert wouldbe recommending that we, you
know, take on a new math programevery two years or take on a
new literacy approach every twoyears.
Because you know, take on a newmath program every two years or
take on a new literacy approachevery two years because you
know, if you really think aboutit carefully, you need, you know
, at least the first year towrap your head around what it's
trying to do.
(05:37):
What are the nuances, how doesthis fit with me and my program
and my community?
And then you need time afterthat to actually get comfortable
with it, get proficient with it, maybe modify it for your
context and so on.
So the idea of doing that everytwo years is really it is
baffling, but I know it doeshappen for sure.
(06:00):
Also, thinking about, yeah, thatexcitement versus fatigue, I
know within my own career Ithink I was always one of those
early adopter people likegetting really excited and like,
yeah, let's go, let's do thisnew approach, this new plan.
And I think some of thatfatigue has actually set in over
(06:23):
the years of teaching becauseyou keep, it just keeps
happening to you over and overagain.
Right, oh, another new thing.
Oh, another new thing.
Oh, another new thing.
And wait, this feels verysimilar to one we've done before
, but now it has a new name.
And so I think over the courseof a career, you can move from
(06:45):
that fatigue to excitement, orexcitement to fatigue as well,
just through the.
You know the ongoinginteraction with these different
initiatives that come at youyeah, I think so, and we know
that it takes.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
you know there's lots of research behind.
You need three to five years ifyou're trying to implement
change, and so if you're tryingto bring in a worthwhile
initiative, you need the time,like you said, that first couple
of years.
You know it's getting to know,and then how does it fit in your
context?
And then you need to collectsome data to see if it actually
(07:21):
works, to see if it actuallyworks Exactly, exactly.
So you know, I remember we hada two-year pilot when I was at
my school in New York and it wason a couple of technology
programs.
You know it was fairly new ideawhen schools were getting
one-to-one devices and I guessin that time, for what it was,
(07:46):
you could collect enough data inthat couple of years.
But at the same time you don'tget to see the growth of
students for that long, right,cause it's only it.
For us it was like grades threeand four.
And then what you know, likewhat do we do?
So now that data is not usableanymore, we don't use that
(08:06):
anymore, like we want to seecontinued change or growth, or,
you know, or does this work ornot.
You know you need longer thanthat to figure that out.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, how do you know that your context needs a new
initiative or a new programafter that short amount of time?
Like you, haven't really hadenough time to see from the data
whether it is effective or not.
It's a very good point.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah.
So I think that's where a lotof that fatigue comes in, right,
so we can start out superexcited about something and then
it becomes part of your routineand you're like, okay, well,
we're done, we're not doing thatanymore.
And then you're like deflatedbecause you invested your time
in it, and then you're just donewith it.
So you're almost like why didwe do that?
(08:53):
What was the point?
Which, I mean, is a lot of whatwe talk about.
What's the purpose behindsomething?
And especially if it seems tobe going well, it's become part
of the routine.
You're getting some interestingdata.
Then why would you discontinuesomething that's providing some
value?
And then you know versus like,oh, here's another one, we're
(09:16):
going to try.
This might be better.
Can we hold off?
Yeah for sure.
So yeah, it's the shiny objectsituation, right?
I think.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I think there is a little bit of that coming in for
sure, absolutely, yeah, yeahI'm wondering we shouldn't let
that fatigue.
You know, if there is somethingreally fantastic coming out,
that is an area that you'reenthusiastic and passionate
about, that has some goodresearch backing behind it, we
(09:50):
shouldn't let that fatigue takeaway that excitement we should
still be like let ourselves havethat enjoyment of what we're
passionate about for sure yeah,I agree, and I think, think like
some of the things that I'veseen recently that are, I don't
want to say coming out, butbecause I think they've already
(10:10):
kind of been in the scene.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
But I think it's sometimes the way we think about
something.
So maybe it's not necessarilythis new initiative, but it's a
way of thinking about somethingor a framework we can use so you
hear those words a lot right Tohelp us kind of rethink what an
initiative might be,particularly when we're looking
(10:38):
at things like SEL, maybebecause we know that's just
something, that that's SEL islife.
So we just should be doing thatall the time.
And I know some schools need tohave some kind of program to
help them move along with that,which is fine.
But I think when we have someinitiatives that feel like
(11:02):
natural, natural fits, you knowit doesn't feel like it's an
exhausting thing.
And I think that's when theself-selected versus mandated is
really valuable, because youreally do then get to have a say
.
Oftentimes teachers will youknow they'll get a form or
something to give some feedbackon new programs or new ideas for
(11:27):
what they want to bring intothe school, and so that can just
have such a greater value whenyou get to have, you get to
choose.
Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think it is unavoidable that we will come
across some mandated initiatives.
I think you know, no matterwhere you work in the world or
what kind of education systemyou're in, at some point you
will come across somethingthat's mandated.
That you don't have a lot ofchoice in, for sure.
But there's a lot.
There's a lot still that youcan do within that mandated
(12:03):
initiative.
For sure, yeah, but if you arein a place where you have the
ability to self-select some,that is freeing it's, it creates
, you know, a feeling ofautonomy and self-efficacy and
things like that.
But you can also be a littlebit scary too, because there is
(12:23):
a lot out there and how do youknow you're choosing the best
version of what is out, right?
Yeah.
So I think both, whether it'smandated or self-selected, I
think there are pros and consfor both, for both different
types of initiatives, for sureyeah, because we know that, uh,
(12:46):
decision fatigue is a real thingtoo, right.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
So sometimes it's like just tell us what to do,
just give us the thing, andversus right, versus like, oh
man, we have to go through this.
We got to do our research nowbecause this is the thing that
we're trying to find to matchour school, which, you know,
either way it's still, it'sstill a lot of work.
So, can we think of some goodtips?
(13:13):
Or what tips do we have thatmight be from our book?
Maybe not, because we do have adecision-making tree there
about adoption, and we have ourfunnels, which you know, our
triple P funnels, which are, youknow, looking at the purpose of
something.
What are the priorities withinit?
How do we pare it down?
So if you are faced with, let'ssay, you know, at this time of
(13:36):
the year, you've got a new stateinitiative maybe, and you have
a something that you're lookingfor in terms of I can't even
think of a self-selectedschool-wide initiative.
I can think of a lot ofclassroom ones, because that's
there, those are different too,right.
So you really have to look at,kind of, the scope of your
(14:00):
initiatives as well, but I guess, whether it's in your classroom
.
So if you're choosing some kindof system for your classroom or
a system for your school,there's definitely some things
to think about.
We have mentioned.
(14:20):
You know what best fits yourcontext.
So you have to look at yourschool demographics and the
culture you have created withyour community to ensure that,
whatever you choose.
So I mean you and I don't oftenpromote like behavior programs,
(14:42):
but that's what's coming tomind, right Because schools do
use like PBIS or I guess, likesomething like character
building, like character strongor you know there's those kinds
of programs as well which isn'ta behavior program, but you know
it's something that people useand has some value to it.
(15:02):
Does that fit your schoolcontext?
Is that what you're looking for, right?
Is that what your school needs,versus like do you need
something more academic, or doyou need something for
extracurriculars?
Or you know there's just somany buckets that you can be
looking at for your school.
So you really have to look atthe context.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Other thoughts there I think another big one to
consider is your schoolstrategic plan as well, because
if you have got, you know, amission of your school, a
five-year plan for your school,and then this initiative doesn't
align with any of that, you'regoing to have a really hard time
(15:48):
A finding time for it in all ofthe things that are in your
plan and your mission, but alsojust getting the motivation and
buy-in for yourself and forothers if it just seems like
this added on thing.
So I think we always need to begoing back to that big purpose
(16:10):
question and looking at thingslike our school mission and
vision and values and and whatyou, what your plan is in
whatever time frame that yourschool has outlined that in.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, that's so important.
Also, if you're facing amandated initiative, what are
the parts within that thatalready align to what you're
doing at your school?
So, anytime that you canstreamline something, right, so
like kind of really pick apartwhat your initiatives are and
(16:49):
what aligns well, and you know,if you don't have to introduce
something new, then don't justbuild it into what you already
do.
And I'm just trying to think ofan example.
One big initiative that iscoming up in different states is
(17:10):
cell phone use for students inclassrooms, and so I think
there's a couple of schools ofthought on this, right, I've
seen some like Instagram reelsof people talking about it, and
one thought is you know, thekids just don't bring their
phones to school, and if they'rebrought to school, they are
(17:33):
held for parents to come andpick them up.
Now, if this policy isn't onethat aligns with what you've
been doing at your school, right?
So let's say, your schoolalready has a cell phone policy
and it's working well, like,let's say, kids are allowed to
(17:53):
keep it in their backpack, sothey just have to put it in a
bucket, but you know it's beenworking.
But you know it's been working,how do you align with a larger
scale mandate like that, wherenow it's like the complete
opposite end right, like youcan't bring your phone to school
kind of situation.
That might be a tricky one,right?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I think it relates back to what you were saying
earlier about leadership's rolewith all of this, because I
think in a way, they'regatekeeping how we respond and
react to the initiatives andthey really set the tone as well
.
So if the leadership is takingthe approach of like you're
(18:40):
doing this, you're doing ittoday, you have no choice,
you're doing it today, you haveno choice, you're doing it from
front cover to back cover,that's it, no questions asked.
Versus let's look at thistogether, let's tackle it
together, let's pull out what welike, what's going to work for
our context, what matches ourschool plan, the needs of our
(19:02):
community and, you know, seewhat we can, you know, leave
behind a little bit maybe andother ones that need to be at
the forefront and the prioritywithin this initiative.
I think those two sorts ofpathways and how you bring in
this mandated initiative aregoing to have very, very
different reactions from yourcommunity as a whole.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Yeah, I agree with you, the approach always matters
, right, it doesn't even matterwhat it is, and so if your
context already has somethingfigured out that works, then
that second approach where youknow we're going to look at this
together to see how it alignswith what we do already feels
(19:51):
safer more.
It feels like you're you.
There's a little bit morerespect there, right for you to
be able to make the decisions atyour school um, versus like you
as an expert, to make some goodjudgments.
Yeah, yeah, right lately yeah,and I think that one of the
biggest struggles with cellphones, you know it's just, it's
(20:14):
so different in every school,the thought behind that.
But I had a conversation thissummer with someone about not
banning cell phones inclassrooms because it does take
away someone's autonomy, right,like it takes away someone's
agency.
To like, if you are in Englishclass and you need to find a
(20:34):
quote for something, you canjust like find one on your phone
real quick.
But again it's like setting theparameters Right, find one on
your phone real quick, but againit's like setting the
parameters right, let's it's.
It's sometimes about likeco-creating what the expectation
is, and maybe that's theimportant part with the
initiatives too.
Like, how do you co-create whatthis looks like in your school
(20:56):
or in your classroom so thatit's we're meeting the
expectations of the mandate orthe initiative, whatever?
However you want to look at it,I think we're getting into some
really muddy waters aroundtrying to declutter initiatives
I know we're not possibly notmaking it clearer for anyone.
(21:22):
But I mean it's a goodconversation to have, because
this is how complicated it isoften at schools, and so I think
, as well as collective groups,yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I mean what we're sayingreally is how do you fit
(21:44):
something that's introduced toyou into what you're already
doing, right?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
How can you streamline, how can you take the
pieces that best fit yourcontext and do that
collaboratively, so that voicesare heard For sure, absolutely,
and I think that piece that wewere talking about, of thinking
(22:07):
about the purpose behind it, andthen how are we rolling this
out, how are we introducing itand how are we making it come
alive in our context.
I think that is a really goodanchor point for you to keep
coming back to.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
As these things are coming your way yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
So I think for yeah, that's kind of the pare down
pointer right, like you justkind of pinpointing, I guess,
within those initiatives, likereally find the links to your
context.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
That's it.
What is going to benefit yourcommunity the most from this?
What are the real strengthswithin this?
New initiative that you canhighlight, yeah, yeah, in your
community for sure.
New initiative that you canhighlight, yeah, yeah, in your
community for sure?
I think it's important too,when we're talking about this
(23:10):
topic is to think about thatidea of building our individual
capacity, because I think youcould easily fall into this path
of I have no capacity here, Ihave no voice here, this is just
(23:30):
being done to me and I have nosay in this whole situation.
And we do talk about it withinthe book, within the chapter,
but I think it's worthmentioning here as well about
how we can build our capacitywithin our educational context,
so that you don't feel like youwere just at the mercy of the
(23:52):
shifting sands beneath our feetyeah, exactly so what are some
of the ways that individualteachers can build their own
capacity?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Probably one of the most important things would be
to pay attention to what'scoming your way right, get as
much knowledge as you can aboutthe initiative and the way that
it will potentially impact yourschool and then also your
classroom as an individual unitwithin the school, Because I do
(24:35):
think that you know the more youknow, the better off you're
going to be, and then that alsohelps you support your
colleagues as well.
So, just kind of you know,doing thinking collaboratively,
get with people to talk about it, figure out what's going to
(24:55):
work best for your context and,yeah, just getting to know it as
well as you can ask questionstoo and because you know that
you're going to have a part toplay in that initiative.
So you've got to figure outwhat that is as soon as possible
(25:15):
.
I think that's a big piece.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, I think the discussion point is so important
to keep encouraging yourself tohave conversations with people,
whether it's your fellowteachers, whether it's the
parent community, whether it'sthe people above you in the
hierarchy of your context, is tonot shy away from, as you say,
asking the questions and havingthe conversations about it, so
(25:47):
that, yeah, you're keepingyourself informed about what's
going on, but maybe also havinga discourse about, well, what is
the purpose behind this?
What are the threads here thatare the most important parts
that I need to make sure thatI'm doing justice with, and have
(26:08):
you thought about X, y and Zand these other possibilities as
well?
I think, yeah, having thoseconversations, those
professional conversations, arekey to keep building your
capacity as someone who has avoice in these situations.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah, I agree, I think those are probably the two
biggest pieces for that.
Yeah, there's just so manythings that we can talk about
with this, because you justmentioned that discourse and it
made me think of something elsewe talked about.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
But I'm gonna stop there because we can keep going
we could keep going, but yeah,yeah, as you say it is, it can
get.
It can get very muddy and itcan get very emotional for
people as well, because they'reexperiencing this.
(27:05):
So, hopefully we haven't madethe waters more muddy and we
have actually shined a light ona few things that might be
helpful for you when you'reconsidering all the different
initiatives that are coming yourway.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes, thank you for listening, and if you have
questions, you can always sendus a comment about things like
this as well, because you knowwe're open to more discussion
about all of the ideas that wehave on our shows.
So thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education
Services, supporting educatorswith forward-thinking
professional learning that putsboth student impact and teacher
wellness at the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters and
simplify their practice.
Learn more at planzeducationcom.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast, their practice.
Learn more atplansieducationcom.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(28:33):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional, thank you
.
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