There's a powerful moment in our conversation with John Spencer when he captures what so many educators are feeling: "It's like you're designing for depth while the system keeps dragging everything to the surface." This sentiment strikes at the heart of teaching today – fighting against a culture of distraction to create meaningful learning experiences.
Spencer, whose journey from middle school teacher to professor and influential education content creator began with his own transformative project-based learning experience as a student, offers a refreshingly honest perspective on student engagement. Moving beyond simplistic advice to "make class more engaging" or "remember your why," he presents a nuanced framework for understanding the difference between compliance and true engagement.
What makes Spencer's approach so valuable is his practical wisdom about building student ownership gradually. "Ask yourself what am I doing for students that they could be doing themselves," he advises, suggesting educators build a year-long plan for incrementally releasing responsibility. This might mean starting with simplified choice activities before progressing to more complex, self-directed projects – creating a pathway for developing the skills and habits students need to engage deeply.
Spencer also challenges common misconceptions about creative learning: that it takes more time (it actually allows for layering standards together), that it's impossible to assess (formative assessment works well), or that it leads to chaos (structure remains essential). His concept of "vintage innovation" – the productive overlap between traditional and progressive approaches – offers a refreshing alternative to polarized education debates.
Ready to fight back against the "dopamine casino" of constant digital distraction? Spencer's insights provide both the understanding and practical strategies needed to help students develop focus, resilience and self-direction in a world that increasingly pulls them toward shallow engagement. Listen now to discover how you can create conditions for deeper learning in your classroom.
Find our book The Minimalist Teacher and Your School Leadership Edit: A Minimalist Approach to Rethinking Your School's Ecosystem at the links!
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The Minimalist Educator Podcast is a Plan Z Education Services adventure.
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