October 14, 2025 • 33 mins
Dr. Monica Burns joins us to explore how educators can thoughtfully integrate AI tools to simplify their workload and enhance teaching practices. We discuss the evolution of AI in education since our first conversation and examine practical applications that prioritize teacher expertise while leveraging technological assistance.
• AI serves as a thought partner and assistant rather than a replacement for teacher expertise
• Effective AI use requires teachers to maintain their role as content experts, pedagogical specialists, and student advocates
• Starting with your to-do list and wish list helps identify specific areas where AI can make meaningful contributions
• Dictation features provide an excellent way to "brain dump" ideas without worrying about organization
• The "reply to refine" approach helps develop effective prompts by gradually adding specificity
• Privacy considerations are paramount—use district-approved tools and avoid uploading student information to free platforms
• Different AI platforms offer varying features that might better suit certain workflows or preferences
• When introducing AI to colleagues, focus on specific instructional pain points rather than forcing adoption
• Environmental impacts of AI use should be considered alongside convenience and time-saving benefits
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education Services.
Buy The Minimalist Teacher book from ASCD+ISTE.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on aless-is-more approach to
education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week, as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:36):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
On this week's episode we have returning guest
Dr Monica Burns speaking with usabout using AI in our work in
education.
Her pare-down pointer is usingdictate features as a brain dub.
Dr Monica Burns is an EdTechand curriculum consultant,
author of EdTech Essentials 12Strategies for Every Classroom
(01:09):
in the Age of AI, second edition, and former New York City
public school teacher.
She works with schools andorganizations around the world
to support educators withthoughtful technology
integration.
Thoughtful technologyintegration Monica's website
classtechtipscom, an easy edtech podcast help educators
(01:30):
place tasks before apps bypromoting deeper learning with
technology.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome to today's episode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Today, Christine and I aretalking to Dr Monica Burns, who
is a returning guest.
Welcome back, Monica.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We spoke to you quite a while ago.
It was the very beginning ofour first season.
You were one of our I think youwere our first guest actually,
so we're going back a couple ofyears already.
So we're going back a couple ofyears already and we were
talking a little bit about, youknow, ai was kind of coming up
in school.
It was newish then, and so wewanted to get an update on
(02:16):
what's been happening from you.
But before we get into that,just give us a, just in case any
listeners don't know who youare.
Just give us a quick who youare and how you got into ed tech
and AI Absolutely Well.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
As I mentioned, excited to be back here with you
all and congrats on the seasonsin between, the last time us
being together.
If we haven't met before, I'm aformer New York City public
school teacher.
I worked in a classroom where westarted with an overhead
projector and chalk and achalkboard and all those great
(02:53):
things and moved into anenvironment or that environment,
I should say, moved ortransitioned into one that was
one-to-one with iPads so not thevery first school in New York
to do that, but early on in theprocess.
And that's what really got mywheels spinning about what was
possible with educationtechnology.
(03:14):
And so I've been out of theclassroom for several years now
hosting professional developmentfor educators in a variety of
virtual and in-person spaces,creating content both online on
my blog, my Easy EdTech podcast,and in print publications, most
recently for ASCD and ISTE.
(03:35):
And over the past few years,with all the AI on the scene, it
really connected back to whatI've always been focused on,
which is how can we make ed techor classroom technology a
little bit easier for educators,who are already juggling lots
of different things, and with AIon the scene, there's some
(03:56):
direct connections toproductivity and the
administrative components of ourroles as educators, but also
for the instructional designpiece, having a tool as a
thought partner, a collaboratorand something to push us in our
own thinking on what types ofactivities we might bring to
students and how we mightsupport bigger goals like
(04:19):
differentiation.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, there's a lot out there at the moment, a lot
of discussions about um.
You know students using aithemselves and the ethics around
that as well.
As you know, some people arestarting to talk about you know
ai as teachers for the kidsinstead of real people and so on
.
But I am very excited to talkto you about the world of ai as
as as a assistant to us to helpour workload ease off a little
(04:44):
bit.
So you've mentioned a fewthings there about being a
thought partner and to help uswith our planning and things
like that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
But can you tell us maybe a misconception that you
come across of what people thinkAI is doing in that field as
far as being a personalassistant, so I think one big
thing and I appreciate how youframe that as you know, there's
a lot of lanes for thisconversation on AI and what it
means for us in education, andone that I spend a lot of time
(05:15):
on is that idea of what aneducator perhaps a classroom
teacher right can do with theseparticular tools.
So everything from a chatbotthat's really a consumer-facing
tool that anyone could use, allthe way to a tool design
specifically with educators inmind.
So, coming back to yourquestion about what a teacher
(05:37):
you know might do with one ofthese tools from a workflow
standpoint, I like to think ofit first.
As you know, what is it that ison your to-do list and on your
wish list?
And one of those biggestmisconceptions is that this is
just going to do all thosethings automatically or
magically or however you want toframe it, when really it
(06:00):
involves having you as a contentexpert, an expert in the
pedagogy, the expert in yourgroup of students, so really
your expertise in those threecore areas driving what this
thing can do.
And we sometimes say you know,we don't know what, we don't
(06:21):
know right, or I don't even knowwhere to start with what
question to ask, right?
Well, that's where you wouldstart right With these tools is
what is it that I'm hoping toaccomplish?
What's on my to-do list?
Maybe I want to have morevisuals to go with my vocabulary
words for my group of fourthgraders.
I know I could go toemojifindercom but it might not
(06:42):
be the best use of my time.
So if I can go to a chat bot,drop in my list of vocab words.
I know that those visual cuesare going to help my students
with their vocabularyacquisition and this is going to
make that process a lotsmoother.
It's either going to take awaysome of the time of me hunting
and searching for the perfectemoji, or maybe it wasn't even
(07:06):
on my to-do list.
Maybe that's on my I wish I hadtime list and now I can
actually get to that.
And so even in a very simpleexample like that one right,
there is some depth there thatgoes beyond just saying an emoji
.
Right, like, I know what mygoal is, I know who my students
are, I know what these visualsare going to do to help boost
(07:26):
their comprehension.
And I can do it, and it'll takeme a long time.
Or I don't have time to do it,so it won't happen, and here's a
tool that can help meaccomplish a wide variety of
goals.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
That's certainly helpful to just.
It's just a way to like sortout your thinking sometimes like
you said do, and a wish list.
I've certainly been hearing fromteachers who are, I don't want
to say, resistant to new things,but this has really piqued some
(08:02):
interest as a way to help themsave time, and so in my coaching
role I'll, you know, suggest itas a way to, you know, get
lesson ideas or activity ideas.
But sometimes they aren't quitesure how to frame a prompt or
how to get exactly what theyneed or want.
(08:26):
So what are some suggestionsthat you have for teachers who
want to make planning a littlebit easier but just don't know
how to write the prompt?
So like, is there like a kindof like formula for a prompt or
something that you use?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Yeah, there's a few different ways to tackle what's
essentially prompt engineering,and it can be as simple as
starting with a sentence andthen doing something I often
call reply to refine, like nowthis, now this, now this right.
So you might say I'm about toteach a lesson on life cycles.
(09:04):
Give me ideas for my fourthgraders.
Well, that could get you a widerange of responses.
So when you put in somethingthat's just that simple sentence
, then you might follow up andsay my kids are really
interested in basketball and itgives more examples.
And then you say we have accessto Chromebooks and I'd really
love an activity that usesGoogle Slides.
(09:25):
And then it will continue torefine.
And then you say it's reallyimportant that my mini lesson is
just 10 minutes and thatthere's an opportunity for
partner work, right.
So you're kind of building offof that, and that's one way that
you could start kind ofthinking through what even would
go into my prompt, because onceyou go through all those steps
(09:46):
which I think is perfectly fineto do it might take a little bit
longer, but you might need thattime for your own processing to
get to where you're going,right, if you have a vision.
But you could put all of thosethings into a paragraph prompt
at the start, and then what itgives you right away will get
you closer to what you werelooking for.
(10:06):
So it won't be perfect, but ifyou know all those things are
important to you, you can putthem all in that initial prompt.
You could even upload a lessonthat you've taught that you
really love, if you'recomfortable with that, and have
it reference that framework orthat structure and say this is
how I normally like to do mylessons.
This is what I'm thinking forthis.
(10:28):
Help me right with some ideas.
You could even ask for morethan one version, and then you
can kind of pick and choosewhich one you then move forward
from.
So there are some frameworksyou'll hear people say put in
the role or the context, right,and there's others like a who,
what, when, where, why, righttype of framework.
(10:49):
So I think those are helpful,but I don't know that they're as
organic right as it may be toturn to a colleague down the
hall and say this is what I'mstruggling with or this is what
I'm thinking.
So one of the features that I'vebeen really excited about that
has gotten a lot stronger.
I sometimes joke, I know we'rein different time zones.
Today my Long Island accentcreeps up no matter what time
(11:13):
zone I happen to be in, andprobably other people's vowels
too, and most of these toolshave it built into the platform
itself, which is even strongerthan, say, you know, the one
that might be built into yourMac or your iPhone or your
(11:33):
Android device, right?
So if you click on thatdictation button in these tools,
different from voice mode, likea smart home device, where it's
like going to talk back to you,from voice mode, like a smart
home device, where it's likegoing to talk back to you, but
more of a dictation, you can dowhat is essentially a brain dump
, which is like all yourthoughts and feelings and
background knowledge and all ofthe above.
(11:55):
Now, it might be helpful for youto have like a personal
checklist that goes along withthat, but it's a kind of a safe
space to have some messy,unorganized thoughts and then
you just have it all down.
You're not worried about yoursentence structure, you're not
worried about your end this andoh, this is important, right,
all the things you might justkind of throw into this chatbot.
(12:16):
And yeah, it's not as pretty ororganized as, say, a polished
framework, but it will give yousomething much closer to your
goal than if you left out acouple of those pieces of
information.
So, yes, there are frameworksthat you might follow,
fill-in-the-blank style prompts.
I have oodles of them on mywebsite.
(12:38):
There's even a whole appendixof the new version of EdTech
Essentials with the fill on theblanks right.
But even just doing thatdictation and brain dump, if you
will, for lack of a prettierdescription can be powerful for
helping you accomplish your goal.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm so glad to hear you talking about how we can't
just plug anything in and let itdo the work for us.
We actually have to be veryinvolved here in using our
critical thinking skills.
We have to have that expertknowledge in order to use it
correctly.
I'm really really happy to hearyou talking about that, monica,
but I'm wondering as well.
I'm here in Europe where thereare a lot of GDPR rules around
(13:20):
privacy, and I'm starting tothink in my own practice with AI
how might that come down theline for us?
Like if we're putting inpersonal information or even
student names to ask for areport comment about this kid
are we roaming into dangerousterritory?
About this kid Are we roaminginto dangerous territory and
(13:43):
what does that look like forwhat we're inputting in and what
the implications of that couldbe for schools?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I think it's really important to keep this in mind
when we're thinking about ourown data privacy, but
particularly for the privacy ofstudents that we might work with
.
So I tend to err on the side ofmore than less cautious with
this.
I'll make the comparison toposting, say, pictures online
(14:08):
right, just because a studenthas filled out their form right
and their parent says it's okayto put photos on a school
website.
I think it's important to havethat conversation with the
student, too, to say like areyou comfortable if we share this
online, even if you've checked,maybe, the official box, if you
will?
Right of getting permissionfrom their families?
Some people feel comfortablecovering a student's face with
(14:32):
an emoji, but that student'sstill in that picture.
That's on your Instagram, and Idon't feel comfortable with
that.
When I talk about being on themore cautious side, that's kind
of where I sit with, say, photosor privacy, and I think the
same thing goes when it comes tothe use cases here.
You know, at least in mypersonal practice, I'm not
(14:52):
uploading photos with anyone init, asking them to turn them
into a Sesame Street character,right, unless that person has
said yes, let's do that, right,and then I'm probably going to
have a conversation aboutintellectual property or IP and
say did the Jim Henson estatesay it was okay for this right
too, right?
So there's so many lanes here.
(15:14):
When it comes to student pieces, I would not upload a class
list unless you're using avetted, approved district tool
where you already have the greenlight or approval to upload
private sensitive informationthat may connect back to GDPR
(15:34):
compliance in the EU right thatmight connect to COPA compliance
or EdLaw2D compliance state bystate right.
Things vary in the US as well.
So, using that same baseline ofwhat are my approved tools,
uploading a class list to Geminiand saying make a group of
(15:57):
these students, even if you'rejust using first names, doesn't
make me feel comfortable, right?
If you're using a GoogleWorkspace version that's
approved by your district thathas a walled garden, you might
hear enterprise account or teamaccount, sometimes right.
Interchangeably with that, Iwould feel differently because I
(16:18):
know that it's been approved.
Typically those are paidbecause it just takes more
energy and capital to make surethat those are secure spaces,
right?
So, particularly for free tools, that's where my kind of spidey
sense would say like this mightnot be something my district or
school has said okay to.
(16:39):
I want to double check right,even if it's on my approved tool
list from a school or districtthat what I'm putting in here
right is actually okay.
So those are my kind ofpersonal rules as I navigate
these spaces.
But particularly with studentdata, you'll want to defer to
what your school districtorganization has said is okay,
(17:05):
right.
And if you are not gettinganswers that are really clear
from the people who should begiving you answers right from a
district level, then I wouldjust step back right and not do
anything that you, you know,don't feel comfortable doing.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, thank you for kind of breaking that down,
because I think it's easy, youknow, to just think that what we
do is going to be safe, but notnecessarily so kind of in line
with that, there's a lot ofdifferent ways or different
platforms to use AI, and so canyou share with us just kind of
(17:48):
like you know, there's Geminithat you mentioned, chatgpt,
claude's Magic School, whichlots of teachers get to use now,
and tons of them.
So can you kind of give abreakdown of which tool you
might use for something and thatmight be like a crossover
between, like, administrativetasks or lesson planning or in
(18:08):
educators' personal lives too?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah.
So, starting off with what Ithink of as the chatbot category
, right, your chat GPT, yourGemini, your Cloud, right
there's a handful that do verysimilar things.
In most cases it's like 90% thesame, with a few
differentiators that might meana lot to your workflow or might
(18:31):
mean very little to yourworkflow.
So, for example, chatgpt has,you know, projects in the plus
version which you would pay for,which is great.
So if you are using itpersonally for a lot of the same
sort of projects and you thinkit's worth it to invest in that
might be one that you decide touse.
If you are a Google-y person,you might just love Gemini,
(18:54):
because you can press a buttonand it'll turn the response into
a Google Doc, which makes itreally easy to edit and share.
So there's that like 5 to 10%feature differentiator across
the board.
When I work with teachers and Iwas just in Brooklyn, new York,
yesterday, with a group and ifthey're a mixed group where they
(19:15):
haven't quite decided ifthey're using one chatbot or
another, everyone was from thesame school but kind of
different experiences.
You know, I'll also share toolsthat you don't have to log into
, because some people justaren't comfortable with the idea
of logging in, even thoughthere might be the pro of it
saving your memory right or yourhistory to come back to.
(19:35):
You know they just want to tryit out and they don't want to
commit to something history tocome back to.
You know they just want to tryit out and they don't want to
commit to something, which Icompletely understand.
So Chachi PT you can usewithout logging in and try out
some prompts, which is one Isometimes share for that reason.
There's another called Duck,like quack quack Duck AI, from
the folks at DuckDuckGo, whichis a popular search engine.
(19:58):
Theirs doesn't have to log in.
It'll save your history thesame way like your cookies are
saved on a browser, so you couldalways just jump into incognito
mode or clear your cache.
It'll go away, and that oneactually lets you play with some
of the free models.
You just like toggle betweenGPT.
Chachit's model from Llama isin there.
(20:21):
There's a handful of them, andso it also gives you a sense of
what is out there.
So, from a chatbot perspective,some differentiators, and
sometimes ones I'll share justbecause you don't have to log in
.
When it comes to the categoryof, say, media generation, like
making images, making music,making audio.
(20:44):
There's also a handful thatfall in that category.
When I work with schools,sometimes I'll say to them ahead
of time you know, is Canva apopular tool?
Is Adobe Express a popular tool?
I'm happy to show you a bunchof things, but if there's one
your educators are already using, let's look at this idea of
creating an image in a tool thatyou're already in and
(21:06):
comfortable with.
So that's one kind of acategory, more to that, of
course, with the music and otherfun things you can do.
But then the third category isreally the education-powered
tools.
These are the ones that aregoing to help you create
supplemental resources thatwould automatically format a
slide deck for you or aninteractive journal you could
(21:30):
share with students all of them,but most of them do.
Many of them are Google singlesign-on, which is useful if
you're a googly person.
Some of them are Chrome browserextensions, which are hard to
try out without a largerdeployment because you have to
(21:50):
install the Chrome extension.
So those are the threecategories.
Those are things I think aboutwithin each of those categories,
and if you are dabbling from apersonal perspective, you might
start with a chatbot.
Then maybe you jump to an imagegenerator and make a picture to
text a friend or to put on abarbecue invitation, and then
(22:13):
maybe, if you're coming in witha more professional lens, you're
looking at an AI-powered tool.
Maybe that's DiffBit or Briskor MagicSchool, like you
mentioned, tammy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What sort of advice would you have if you found
yourself in a community ofteachers where you have some
people who have just jumpedright in, they're using it for
planning, they're makingassessment tools and rubrics.
They're, you know,communication, whether it's
(22:45):
newsletters or weekly blogs butthen you also have people in the
same building who are like thisis terrifying and I don't want
to have anything to do with it.
How do you kind of find?
What sort of advice do you haveto find, like a collective
approach or something that'scomfortable for everybody?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, and I would say I'm in a lot of environments,
maybe not full time with thesame group all the time, but
over the course, you know, of afew weeks I'm probably popping
into a couple right that fitthat profile that you described,
christine.
So you know, I think it'sreally important to acknowledge
that it's okay to have these bigfeelings about technology
(23:19):
that's evolving and changingpretty rapidly.
It's easy to make a comparisonto bringing in a calculator or
when Wikipedia came on the scene, but I don't think that that
tells the full picture of thistechnology that's really
infiltrated lots of differentindustries and is continuing to
(23:39):
evolve at a pretty rapid pace.
So, first off, I wouldacknowledge the valid concerns
that your community members havearound this technology.
I would not encourage you toforce something on everyone.
This is a little bit differentthan saying we're all going to
(24:00):
adopt this one learningmanagement system.
Please stop using this otherone on your own.
It's confusing the kids andfamilies, right.
This is a little bit different.
So you might start or I often doin working with schools and
district, which is looking atthis through an instructional
lens, identifying pain points,like the to-do list, like the
(24:20):
wish list, and then looking atways where we can really scale
our impact strategically aroundlarger initiatives like
formative assessment, arounddifferentiated instruction even
for a teacher who might havesome hesitation here but is also
being asked to infuse literacyskills in their science
(24:42):
classroom and they're likehitting a wall with how to do
that.
Just showing them how a chat botcan make a connection between
cause and effect and the rockcycle that, once they see it,
might seem obvious like that'sgoing to change their
perspective on what's possiblewith these tools and what a use
case might be for them.
So keeping it super relevant andanchored in their practice.
(25:06):
They might hear you share thatand say okay, but not for me, or
I'm still not comfortable orI'm concerned about these other
aspects, and I think it's justimportant to keep that
conversation open and make surethat people have oodles of
examples of what this looks likein their practice.
I think one big piece here andmy work is less around student
(25:30):
use cases and more on theeducator, adult use cases is to
see this or frame this for yourgroup as a way to really empower
them for conversations withstudents, with families and with
colleagues around theirobservations on AI use.
If you're teaching first graderight, you might not have the
(25:52):
same sort of everyday concernsand experiences as a 10th grade
teacher with what students aredoing with AI, but it doesn't
mean that you want to completelyavoid, right, something that's
very present in the everydaylives of your school community.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, it's such a big shift to have to think through
and make and eventually I feellike eventually people will get
to that point where there's somelevel of comfort even just
using it for, like, generatinglesson ideas or something.
Um but I do like that idea ofjust making sure it's connected
(26:32):
and relevant directly to theirrole.
I think that's a great point.
Um, I'm wondering this is likea related and unrelated question
but I'm wondering if, in yourjust like keeping up with how AI
impacts, you know not only ourworkspaces, but have you seen
(26:56):
much research on, like theimpact on the environment?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
on the environment.
This is an area where I've youknow, I usually frame my
conversations with educators inthis, you know healthy
hesitations, right.
These are reasons why youshould and you may already be
hesitant about this technology,and I've been mentioning the
environmental impact casually,right, just like I would say you
should be concerned about biasfor these reasons and
hallucinations or deep fakes forthese reasons.
(27:28):
So I've been mentioning it, youknow, not doing a deep dive,
but on my list of things forquite a while now.
But I would say and I don'tknow if something specific has
shifted or there's been morenational coverage, but the
amount that this has come up inconversations recently with
educators as an area where theyare rightfully concerned has
(27:52):
increased substantially over thepast I would say six weeks or
so, which I think is a greatthing, and I don't know that
there are great specific numbersto share around what the impact
looks like, because part ofthis is moving really quickly,
(28:12):
or Bitcoin mining kind of, ifyou follow that in the past
decade or so also has somesimilarities in terms of the
environmental consumption thewater consumption, which is
sometimes curious for folks whoare like what does water have to
(28:35):
do with this?
Plants.
It's pretty substantial and ittakes way more energy to add
emojis to a list of vocabularywords than it does to Google
what vocab words should I teachin my rock cycle unit?
So my not perfect answer, rightwith these conversations I've
(28:58):
been having with educators, isto keep talking, keep asking,
keep thinking about this and,just like you may cut corners in
your own life in terms ofsaying I accept the terms of
this app so that I can use thisapp to help me do this thing in
my life a little bit better,even if I understand I'm giving
(29:22):
in a bit on my own privacy oryou know something to that
nature.
It's something that most of usdo in different aspects of our
life.
You know, we have to make thatsame sort of same sort of
agreement with ourselves on whatwe're comfortable with in terms
of interacting with thistechnology, just like which
(29:42):
lights we leave on in our homeas we move through a space right
throughout the day.
So not a perfect answer, but areally important area to
continue to think about and towatch, and I've you know, I've
seen people give comparisonslike well, maybe do a meatless
(30:03):
Monday, or we consume moreenergy doing these other things,
and I'm just like thatWikipedia and calculator
comparison.
I'm not quite sure that all ofthose things are the same, even
if it might make us feel betterto say so.
Those are just a couple maybethought starters you could label
them around this topic a couplemaybe thought starters you
(30:26):
could label them around thistopic.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, I think it's just an important thing to be
aware of, right, Like, we knowthat just everything we do has
an impact on the environment,whether we realize it or not,
and so I think it's just one ofthose other things to just make
sure people are aware and wedon't.
You know, it's still fairly a afairly new phenomenon and we
there's lots of research thatstill has to be done around it,
(30:48):
Um, and maybe in the end it'snot a significant change or
difference, you know, on theplanet as we think, Um, but I
just, yeah, I just was curiousif you've had teachers bring
that up and kind of what's beenfor you.
Um, so thank you for sharingthat.
We are at the end of ourepisode recording time, which,
you know, is flies by, as usual,but if you could give a quick
(31:14):
pare down pointer to ourlisteners something that came up
in conversation today orsomething else that comes up for
you, that would be awesomesomething else that comes up for
you, that would be awesome.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
So my one thing I talked about it before is using
voice to text or dictation.
It may be in another tech toolthat you love that just makes it
a little quicker to jot down anote, or it may be that brain
dump into a chatbot.
It's a great thing to add intoyour workflow, particularly if
you are exploring tools andhaven't, you know, picked your
(31:49):
favorite one just yet.
If you're into that idea ofdropping some information into a
space a little bit quicker,maybe on the go, that would be
my one thing to try out.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Thank you so much for joining us today, monica.
That was a fascinatingdiscussion, as always.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education
Services, supporting educatorswith forward thinking.
Professional learning that putsboth student impact and teacher
wellness at the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters and
simplify their practice.
Learn more atplansieducationcom.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(32:57):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
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Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
You.
Welcome to the Minimalist Educator podcast,
where the focus is on aless-is-more approach to
education.
Join your hosts, christineArnold and Tammy Musiawski,
authors of the MinimalistTeacher and your School
Leadership.
Edit a minimalist approach torethinking your school ecosystem
each week, as they explorepractical ways to simplify your
(00:36):
work, sharpen your focus andamplify what matters most so you
can teach and lead with greaterclarity, purpose and joy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
On this week's episode we have returning guest
Dr Monica Burns speaking with usabout using AI in our work in
education.
Her pare-down pointer is usingdictate features as a brain dub.
Dr Monica Burns is an EdTechand curriculum consultant,
author of EdTech Essentials 12Strategies for Every Classroom
(01:09):
in the Age of AI, second edition, and former New York City
public school teacher.
She works with schools andorganizations around the world
to support educators withthoughtful technology
integration.
Thoughtful technologyintegration Monica's website
classtechtipscom, an easy edtech podcast help educators
(01:30):
place tasks before apps bypromoting deeper learning with
technology.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome to today's episode of the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Today, Christine and I aretalking to Dr Monica Burns, who
is a returning guest.
Welcome back, Monica.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We spoke to you quite a while ago.
It was the very beginning ofour first season.
You were one of our I think youwere our first guest actually,
so we're going back a couple ofyears already.
So we're going back a couple ofyears already and we were
talking a little bit about, youknow, ai was kind of coming up
in school.
It was newish then, and so wewanted to get an update on
(02:16):
what's been happening from you.
But before we get into that,just give us a, just in case any
listeners don't know who youare.
Just give us a quick who youare and how you got into ed tech
and AI Absolutely Well.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
As I mentioned, excited to be back here with you
all and congrats on the seasonsin between, the last time us
being together.
If we haven't met before, I'm aformer New York City public
school teacher.
I worked in a classroom where westarted with an overhead
projector and chalk and achalkboard and all those great
(02:53):
things and moved into anenvironment or that environment,
I should say, moved ortransitioned into one that was
one-to-one with iPads so not thevery first school in New York
to do that, but early on in theprocess.
And that's what really got mywheels spinning about what was
possible with educationtechnology.
(03:14):
And so I've been out of theclassroom for several years now
hosting professional developmentfor educators in a variety of
virtual and in-person spaces,creating content both online on
my blog, my Easy EdTech podcast,and in print publications, most
recently for ASCD and ISTE.
(03:35):
And over the past few years,with all the AI on the scene, it
really connected back to whatI've always been focused on,
which is how can we make ed techor classroom technology a
little bit easier for educators,who are already juggling lots
of different things, and with AIon the scene, there's some
(03:56):
direct connections toproductivity and the
administrative components of ourroles as educators, but also
for the instructional designpiece, having a tool as a
thought partner, a collaboratorand something to push us in our
own thinking on what types ofactivities we might bring to
students and how we mightsupport bigger goals like
(04:19):
differentiation.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, there's a lot out there at the moment, a lot
of discussions about um.
You know students using aithemselves and the ethics around
that as well.
As you know, some people arestarting to talk about you know
ai as teachers for the kidsinstead of real people and so on
.
But I am very excited to talkto you about the world of ai as
as as a assistant to us to helpour workload ease off a little
(04:44):
bit.
So you've mentioned a fewthings there about being a
thought partner and to help uswith our planning and things
like that.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
But can you tell us maybe a misconception that you
come across of what people thinkAI is doing in that field as
far as being a personalassistant, so I think one big
thing and I appreciate how youframe that as you know, there's
a lot of lanes for thisconversation on AI and what it
means for us in education, andone that I spend a lot of time
(05:15):
on is that idea of what aneducator perhaps a classroom
teacher right can do with theseparticular tools.
So everything from a chatbotthat's really a consumer-facing
tool that anyone could use, allthe way to a tool design
specifically with educators inmind.
So, coming back to yourquestion about what a teacher
(05:37):
you know might do with one ofthese tools from a workflow
standpoint, I like to think ofit first.
As you know, what is it that ison your to-do list and on your
wish list?
And one of those biggestmisconceptions is that this is
just going to do all thosethings automatically or
magically or however you want toframe it, when really it
(06:00):
involves having you as a contentexpert, an expert in the
pedagogy, the expert in yourgroup of students, so really
your expertise in those threecore areas driving what this
thing can do.
And we sometimes say you know,we don't know what, we don't
(06:21):
know right, or I don't even knowwhere to start with what
question to ask, right?
Well, that's where you wouldstart right With these tools is
what is it that I'm hoping toaccomplish?
What's on my to-do list?
Maybe I want to have morevisuals to go with my vocabulary
words for my group of fourthgraders.
I know I could go toemojifindercom but it might not
(06:42):
be the best use of my time.
So if I can go to a chat bot,drop in my list of vocab words.
I know that those visual cuesare going to help my students
with their vocabularyacquisition and this is going to
make that process a lotsmoother.
It's either going to take awaysome of the time of me hunting
and searching for the perfectemoji, or maybe it wasn't even
(07:06):
on my to-do list.
Maybe that's on my I wish I hadtime list and now I can
actually get to that.
And so even in a very simpleexample like that one right,
there is some depth there thatgoes beyond just saying an emoji
.
Right, like, I know what mygoal is, I know who my students
are, I know what these visualsare going to do to help boost
(07:26):
their comprehension.
And I can do it, and it'll takeme a long time.
Or I don't have time to do it,so it won't happen, and here's a
tool that can help meaccomplish a wide variety of
goals.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
That's certainly helpful to just.
It's just a way to like sortout your thinking sometimes like
you said do, and a wish list.
I've certainly been hearing fromteachers who are, I don't want
to say, resistant to new things,but this has really piqued some
(08:02):
interest as a way to help themsave time, and so in my coaching
role I'll, you know, suggest itas a way to, you know, get
lesson ideas or activity ideas.
But sometimes they aren't quitesure how to frame a prompt or
how to get exactly what theyneed or want.
(08:26):
So what are some suggestionsthat you have for teachers who
want to make planning a littlebit easier but just don't know
how to write the prompt?
So like, is there like a kindof like formula for a prompt or
something that you use?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Yeah, there's a few different ways to tackle what's
essentially prompt engineering,and it can be as simple as
starting with a sentence andthen doing something I often
call reply to refine, like nowthis, now this, now this right.
So you might say I'm about toteach a lesson on life cycles.
(09:04):
Give me ideas for my fourthgraders.
Well, that could get you a widerange of responses.
So when you put in somethingthat's just that simple sentence
, then you might follow up andsay my kids are really
interested in basketball and itgives more examples.
And then you say we have accessto Chromebooks and I'd really
love an activity that usesGoogle Slides.
(09:25):
And then it will continue torefine.
And then you say it's reallyimportant that my mini lesson is
just 10 minutes and thatthere's an opportunity for
partner work, right.
So you're kind of building offof that, and that's one way that
you could start kind ofthinking through what even would
go into my prompt, because onceyou go through all those steps
(09:46):
which I think is perfectly fineto do it might take a little bit
longer, but you might need thattime for your own processing to
get to where you're going,right, if you have a vision.
But you could put all of thosethings into a paragraph prompt
at the start, and then what itgives you right away will get
you closer to what you werelooking for.
(10:06):
So it won't be perfect, but ifyou know all those things are
important to you, you can putthem all in that initial prompt.
You could even upload a lessonthat you've taught that you
really love, if you'recomfortable with that, and have
it reference that framework orthat structure and say this is
how I normally like to do mylessons.
This is what I'm thinking forthis.
(10:28):
Help me right with some ideas.
You could even ask for morethan one version, and then you
can kind of pick and choosewhich one you then move forward
from.
So there are some frameworksyou'll hear people say put in
the role or the context, right,and there's others like a who,
what, when, where, why, righttype of framework.
(10:49):
So I think those are helpful,but I don't know that they're as
organic right as it may be toturn to a colleague down the
hall and say this is what I'mstruggling with or this is what
I'm thinking.
So one of the features that I'vebeen really excited about that
has gotten a lot stronger.
I sometimes joke, I know we'rein different time zones.
Today my Long Island accentcreeps up no matter what time
(11:13):
zone I happen to be in, andprobably other people's vowels
too, and most of these toolshave it built into the platform
itself, which is even strongerthan, say, you know, the one
that might be built into yourMac or your iPhone or your
(11:33):
Android device, right?
So if you click on thatdictation button in these tools,
different from voice mode, likea smart home device, where it's
like going to talk back to you,from voice mode, like a smart
home device, where it's likegoing to talk back to you, but
more of a dictation, you can dowhat is essentially a brain dump
, which is like all yourthoughts and feelings and
background knowledge and all ofthe above.
(11:55):
Now, it might be helpful for youto have like a personal
checklist that goes along withthat, but it's a kind of a safe
space to have some messy,unorganized thoughts and then
you just have it all down.
You're not worried about yoursentence structure, you're not
worried about your end this andoh, this is important, right,
all the things you might justkind of throw into this chatbot.
(12:16):
And yeah, it's not as pretty ororganized as, say, a polished
framework, but it will give yousomething much closer to your
goal than if you left out acouple of those pieces of
information.
So, yes, there are frameworksthat you might follow,
fill-in-the-blank style prompts.
I have oodles of them on mywebsite.
(12:38):
There's even a whole appendixof the new version of EdTech
Essentials with the fill on theblanks right.
But even just doing thatdictation and brain dump, if you
will, for lack of a prettierdescription can be powerful for
helping you accomplish your goal.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I'm so glad to hear you talking about how we can't
just plug anything in and let itdo the work for us.
We actually have to be veryinvolved here in using our
critical thinking skills.
We have to have that expertknowledge in order to use it
correctly.
I'm really really happy to hearyou talking about that, monica,
but I'm wondering as well.
I'm here in Europe where thereare a lot of GDPR rules around
(13:20):
privacy, and I'm starting tothink in my own practice with AI
how might that come down theline for us?
Like if we're putting inpersonal information or even
student names to ask for areport comment about this kid
are we roaming into dangerousterritory?
About this kid Are we roaminginto dangerous territory and
(13:43):
what does that look like forwhat we're inputting in and what
the implications of that couldbe for schools?
Speaker 4 (13:48):
I think it's really important to keep this in mind
when we're thinking about ourown data privacy, but
particularly for the privacy ofstudents that we might work with
.
So I tend to err on the side ofmore than less cautious with
this.
I'll make the comparison toposting, say, pictures online
(14:08):
right, just because a studenthas filled out their form right
and their parent says it's okayto put photos on a school
website.
I think it's important to havethat conversation with the
student, too, to say like areyou comfortable if we share this
online, even if you've checked,maybe, the official box, if you
will?
Right of getting permissionfrom their families?
Some people feel comfortablecovering a student's face with
(14:32):
an emoji, but that student'sstill in that picture.
That's on your Instagram, and Idon't feel comfortable with
that.
When I talk about being on themore cautious side, that's kind
of where I sit with, say, photosor privacy, and I think the
same thing goes when it comes tothe use cases here.
You know, at least in mypersonal practice, I'm not
(14:52):
uploading photos with anyone init, asking them to turn them
into a Sesame Street character,right, unless that person has
said yes, let's do that, right,and then I'm probably going to
have a conversation aboutintellectual property or IP and
say did the Jim Henson estatesay it was okay for this right
too, right?
So there's so many lanes here.
(15:14):
When it comes to student pieces, I would not upload a class
list unless you're using avetted, approved district tool
where you already have the greenlight or approval to upload
private sensitive informationthat may connect back to GDPR
(15:34):
compliance in the EU right thatmight connect to COPA compliance
or EdLaw2D compliance state bystate right.
Things vary in the US as well.
So, using that same baseline ofwhat are my approved tools,
uploading a class list to Geminiand saying make a group of
(15:57):
these students, even if you'rejust using first names, doesn't
make me feel comfortable, right?
If you're using a GoogleWorkspace version that's
approved by your district thathas a walled garden, you might
hear enterprise account or teamaccount, sometimes right.
Interchangeably with that, Iwould feel differently because I
(16:18):
know that it's been approved.
Typically those are paidbecause it just takes more
energy and capital to make surethat those are secure spaces,
right?
So, particularly for free tools, that's where my kind of spidey
sense would say like this mightnot be something my district or
school has said okay to.
(16:39):
I want to double check right,even if it's on my approved tool
list from a school or districtthat what I'm putting in here
right is actually okay.
So those are my kind ofpersonal rules as I navigate
these spaces.
But particularly with studentdata, you'll want to defer to
what your school districtorganization has said is okay,
(17:05):
right.
And if you are not gettinganswers that are really clear
from the people who should begiving you answers right from a
district level, then I wouldjust step back right and not do
anything that you, you know,don't feel comfortable doing.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, thank you for kind of breaking that down,
because I think it's easy, youknow, to just think that what we
do is going to be safe, but notnecessarily so kind of in line
with that, there's a lot ofdifferent ways or different
platforms to use AI, and so canyou share with us just kind of
(17:48):
like you know, there's Geminithat you mentioned, chatgpt,
claude's Magic School, whichlots of teachers get to use now,
and tons of them.
So can you kind of give abreakdown of which tool you
might use for something and thatmight be like a crossover
between, like, administrativetasks or lesson planning or in
(18:08):
educators' personal lives too?
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah.
So, starting off with what Ithink of as the chatbot category
, right, your chat GPT, yourGemini, your Cloud, right
there's a handful that do verysimilar things.
In most cases it's like 90% thesame, with a few
differentiators that might meana lot to your workflow or might
(18:31):
mean very little to yourworkflow.
So, for example, chatgpt has,you know, projects in the plus
version which you would pay for,which is great.
So if you are using itpersonally for a lot of the same
sort of projects and you thinkit's worth it to invest in that
might be one that you decide touse.
If you are a Google-y person,you might just love Gemini,
(18:54):
because you can press a buttonand it'll turn the response into
a Google Doc, which makes itreally easy to edit and share.
So there's that like 5 to 10%feature differentiator across
the board.
When I work with teachers and Iwas just in Brooklyn, new York,
yesterday, with a group and ifthey're a mixed group where they
(19:15):
haven't quite decided ifthey're using one chatbot or
another, everyone was from thesame school but kind of
different experiences.
You know, I'll also share toolsthat you don't have to log into
, because some people justaren't comfortable with the idea
of logging in, even thoughthere might be the pro of it
saving your memory right or yourhistory to come back to.
(19:35):
You know they just want to tryit out and they don't want to
commit to something history tocome back to.
You know they just want to tryit out and they don't want to
commit to something, which Icompletely understand.
So Chachi PT you can usewithout logging in and try out
some prompts, which is one Isometimes share for that reason.
There's another called Duck,like quack quack Duck AI, from
the folks at DuckDuckGo, whichis a popular search engine.
(19:58):
Theirs doesn't have to log in.
It'll save your history thesame way like your cookies are
saved on a browser, so you couldalways just jump into incognito
mode or clear your cache.
It'll go away, and that oneactually lets you play with some
of the free models.
You just like toggle betweenGPT.
Chachit's model from Llama isin there.
(20:21):
There's a handful of them, andso it also gives you a sense of
what is out there.
So, from a chatbot perspective,some differentiators, and
sometimes ones I'll share justbecause you don't have to log in
.
When it comes to the categoryof, say, media generation, like
making images, making music,making audio.
(20:44):
There's also a handful thatfall in that category.
When I work with schools,sometimes I'll say to them ahead
of time you know, is Canva apopular tool?
Is Adobe Express a popular tool?
I'm happy to show you a bunchof things, but if there's one
your educators are already using, let's look at this idea of
creating an image in a tool thatyou're already in and
(21:06):
comfortable with.
So that's one kind of acategory, more to that, of
course, with the music and otherfun things you can do.
But then the third category isreally the education-powered
tools.
These are the ones that aregoing to help you create
supplemental resources thatwould automatically format a
slide deck for you or aninteractive journal you could
(21:30):
share with students all of them,but most of them do.
Many of them are Google singlesign-on, which is useful if
you're a googly person.
Some of them are Chrome browserextensions, which are hard to
try out without a largerdeployment because you have to
(21:50):
install the Chrome extension.
So those are the threecategories.
Those are things I think aboutwithin each of those categories,
and if you are dabbling from apersonal perspective, you might
start with a chatbot.
Then maybe you jump to an imagegenerator and make a picture to
text a friend or to put on abarbecue invitation, and then
(22:13):
maybe, if you're coming in witha more professional lens, you're
looking at an AI-powered tool.
Maybe that's DiffBit or Briskor MagicSchool, like you
mentioned, tammy.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What sort of advice would you have if you found
yourself in a community ofteachers where you have some
people who have just jumpedright in, they're using it for
planning, they're makingassessment tools and rubrics.
They're, you know,communication, whether it's
(22:45):
newsletters or weekly blogs butthen you also have people in the
same building who are like thisis terrifying and I don't want
to have anything to do with it.
How do you kind of find?
What sort of advice do you haveto find, like a collective
approach or something that'scomfortable for everybody?
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Yeah, and I would say I'm in a lot of environments,
maybe not full time with thesame group all the time, but
over the course, you know, of afew weeks I'm probably popping
into a couple right that fitthat profile that you described,
christine.
So you know, I think it'sreally important to acknowledge
that it's okay to have these bigfeelings about technology
(23:19):
that's evolving and changingpretty rapidly.
It's easy to make a comparisonto bringing in a calculator or
when Wikipedia came on the scene, but I don't think that that
tells the full picture of thistechnology that's really
infiltrated lots of differentindustries and is continuing to
(23:39):
evolve at a pretty rapid pace.
So, first off, I wouldacknowledge the valid concerns
that your community members havearound this technology.
I would not encourage you toforce something on everyone.
This is a little bit differentthan saying we're all going to
(24:00):
adopt this one learningmanagement system.
Please stop using this otherone on your own.
It's confusing the kids andfamilies, right.
This is a little bit different.
So you might start or I often doin working with schools and
district, which is looking atthis through an instructional
lens, identifying pain points,like the to-do list, like the
(24:20):
wish list, and then looking atways where we can really scale
our impact strategically aroundlarger initiatives like
formative assessment, arounddifferentiated instruction even
for a teacher who might havesome hesitation here but is also
being asked to infuse literacyskills in their science
(24:42):
classroom and they're likehitting a wall with how to do
that.
Just showing them how a chat botcan make a connection between
cause and effect and the rockcycle that, once they see it,
might seem obvious like that'sgoing to change their
perspective on what's possiblewith these tools and what a use
case might be for them.
So keeping it super relevant andanchored in their practice.
(25:06):
They might hear you share thatand say okay, but not for me, or
I'm still not comfortable orI'm concerned about these other
aspects, and I think it's justimportant to keep that
conversation open and make surethat people have oodles of
examples of what this looks likein their practice.
I think one big piece here andmy work is less around student
(25:30):
use cases and more on theeducator, adult use cases is to
see this or frame this for yourgroup as a way to really empower
them for conversations withstudents, with families and with
colleagues around theirobservations on AI use.
If you're teaching first graderight, you might not have the
(25:52):
same sort of everyday concernsand experiences as a 10th grade
teacher with what students aredoing with AI, but it doesn't
mean that you want to completelyavoid, right, something that's
very present in the everydaylives of your school community.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, it's such a big shift to have to think through
and make and eventually I feellike eventually people will get
to that point where there's somelevel of comfort even just
using it for, like, generatinglesson ideas or something.
Um but I do like that idea ofjust making sure it's connected
(26:32):
and relevant directly to theirrole.
I think that's a great point.
Um, I'm wondering this is likea related and unrelated question
but I'm wondering if, in yourjust like keeping up with how AI
impacts, you know not only ourworkspaces, but have you seen
(26:56):
much research on, like theimpact on the environment?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
on the environment.
This is an area where I've youknow, I usually frame my
conversations with educators inthis, you know healthy
hesitations, right.
These are reasons why youshould and you may already be
hesitant about this technology,and I've been mentioning the
environmental impact casually,right, just like I would say you
should be concerned about biasfor these reasons and
hallucinations or deep fakes forthese reasons.
(27:28):
So I've been mentioning it, youknow, not doing a deep dive,
but on my list of things forquite a while now.
But I would say and I don'tknow if something specific has
shifted or there's been morenational coverage, but the
amount that this has come up inconversations recently with
educators as an area where theyare rightfully concerned has
(27:52):
increased substantially over thepast I would say six weeks or
so, which I think is a greatthing, and I don't know that
there are great specific numbersto share around what the impact
looks like, because part ofthis is moving really quickly,
(28:12):
or Bitcoin mining kind of, ifyou follow that in the past
decade or so also has somesimilarities in terms of the
environmental consumption thewater consumption, which is
sometimes curious for folks whoare like what does water have to
(28:35):
do with this?
Plants.
It's pretty substantial and ittakes way more energy to add
emojis to a list of vocabularywords than it does to Google
what vocab words should I teachin my rock cycle unit?
So my not perfect answer, rightwith these conversations I've
(28:58):
been having with educators, isto keep talking, keep asking,
keep thinking about this and,just like you may cut corners in
your own life in terms ofsaying I accept the terms of
this app so that I can use thisapp to help me do this thing in
my life a little bit better,even if I understand I'm giving
(29:22):
in a bit on my own privacy oryou know something to that
nature.
It's something that most of usdo in different aspects of our
life.
You know, we have to make thatsame sort of same sort of
agreement with ourselves on whatwe're comfortable with in terms
of interacting with thistechnology, just like which
(29:42):
lights we leave on in our homeas we move through a space right
throughout the day.
So not a perfect answer, but areally important area to
continue to think about and towatch, and I've you know, I've
seen people give comparisonslike well, maybe do a meatless
(30:03):
Monday, or we consume moreenergy doing these other things,
and I'm just like thatWikipedia and calculator
comparison.
I'm not quite sure that all ofthose things are the same, even
if it might make us feel betterto say so.
Those are just a couple maybethought starters you could label
them around this topic a couplemaybe thought starters you
(30:26):
could label them around thistopic.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah, I think it's just an important thing to be
aware of, right, Like, we knowthat just everything we do has
an impact on the environment,whether we realize it or not,
and so I think it's just one ofthose other things to just make
sure people are aware and wedon't.
You know, it's still fairly a afairly new phenomenon and we
there's lots of research thatstill has to be done around it,
(30:48):
Um, and maybe in the end it'snot a significant change or
difference, you know, on theplanet as we think, Um, but I
just, yeah, I just was curiousif you've had teachers bring
that up and kind of what's beenfor you.
Um, so thank you for sharingthat.
We are at the end of ourepisode recording time, which,
you know, is flies by, as usual,but if you could give a quick
(31:14):
pare down pointer to ourlisteners something that came up
in conversation today orsomething else that comes up for
you, that would be awesomesomething else that comes up for
you, that would be awesome.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
So my one thing I talked about it before is using
voice to text or dictation.
It may be in another tech toolthat you love that just makes it
a little quicker to jot down anote, or it may be that brain
dump into a chatbot.
It's a great thing to add intoyour workflow, particularly if
you are exploring tools andhaven't, you know, picked your
(31:49):
favorite one just yet.
If you're into that idea ofdropping some information into a
space a little bit quicker,maybe on the go, that would be
my one thing to try out.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Thank you so much for joining us today, monica.
That was a fascinatingdiscussion, as always.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
This episode is sponsored by Plan Z Education
Services, supporting educatorswith forward thinking.
Professional learning that putsboth student impact and teacher
wellness at the center.
Driven by a vision to teachless, impact more, they help
educators find purpose,prioritize what matters and
simplify their practice.
Learn more atplansieducationcom.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Thank you for listening to the Minimalist
Educator Podcast.
Join Christine and Tammy andguests again next time for more
conversations about how tosimplify and clarify the
responsibilities and tasks inyour role.
If today's episode helped yourethink, reimagine, reduce or
realign something in yourpractice, share it in a comment
(32:57):
or with a colleague.
For resources and updates,visit planzeducationcom and
subscribe to receive weeklyemails.
Until next time, keep it simpleand stay intentional.
You.
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