June 3, 2025 • 40 mins
Discover the ancient wisdom of ceremonial cacao as more than just chocolate – a sacred plant medicine with the power to heal your relationship with the divine feminine within. Psychic medium Angelica Grace takes us deep into the world of this heart-opening elixir, sharing how it's transformed her life and the lives of countless women seeking reconnection to their authentic selves.
Angelica reveals how ceremonial cacao differs dramatically from commercial chocolate, carrying the energy of generations of indigenous farmers who cultivate it with reverence and intention. She explains why cacao is referred to as "she," embodying the nurturing energies of Grandmother Moon and Mother Earth, serving as a bridge back to the sacred feminine that many have become disconnected from in our productivity-obsessed society.
For women – especially mothers – cacao offers profound healing for emotional burnout, anxiety, and the people-pleasing tendencies that develop when we've lost touch with our core needs. Through gentle yet powerful ceremonial practices that might incorporate elements like breathwork, movement, or drumming, cacao helps open the heart both physically (through the blood-vessel-dilating theobromine it contains) and emotionally (by creating sacred space for self-reflection).
Unlike some misconceptions, cacao doesn't create psychedelic experiences but instead grounds you deeper into your body and heart. This ancient plant medicine teaches that "there is strength in gentleness" – we can stand in our power without dominating energy. Perhaps most beautifully, cacao helps reawaken our childlike curiosity, encouraging us to follow the breadcrumbs of what brings us alive.
Ready to begin your own journey with cacao? Sometimes all it takes is declaring your intention to the universe. As Angelica shares her recommendations for trusted cacao sources and the ideal times to work with this sacred medicine, you'll feel inspired to explore how this heart-opening practice might transform your relationship with yourself and the world around you.
Episode Links:
- Find out more about Angelica and her offerings & connect with her on Instagram
- Maya Moon Cacao
- Embue Cacao
- Keith's Cacao
- Soul Lift Cacao
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Hi, I'm Lizzie and I'm Nikki.
Have you ever felt that yourlife was missing purpose, joy or
deep connection?
Welcome to the Modern ZenCollective podcast, where we
embrace holistic living for ajoyful, purpose-driven life.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
In this podcast, we'll explore holistic practices
, consciousness expansion andspiritual alignment.
We will dive into personaldevelopment practices that
connect mind, body, spirit andshare secrets that ancient
cultures have known forcenturies.
Together, we aim to guide,educate and connect individuals
eager to transform their lives.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Join us weekly on the Modern Zen Collective podcast
and elevate your mind, body andspirit.
And now on to today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Welcome back everyone to the Modern Zen Collective
Podcast.
I'm Nikki and I'm Lizzie.
Hey everybody.
Today we're opening a sacredspace for a very special
conversation, one that's beencalling Lizzie and I in our
hearts for a while now.
We're diving into the sacredworld of cacao, not just as a
delicious drink or treat, but asa powerful plant medicine, a
(01:27):
heart opener and a guide on thepath of inner healing.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So this is actually the very first time we're
bringing the magic of cacao intoour podcast space, and we
couldn't have a more alignedguest to share her wisdom with
you.
She's just so awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You guys are going to love her so much.
Yes, it's Angelica Grace.
She's on our collective andshe's been on the pod before,
which we are so excited to haveher share today.
Everything about cacao.
She's a psychic, intuitivemedium and co-founder of the
Healing Arts Academy.
She's a devoted student andteacher of cacao, using it as a
sacred tool to nurturereconnection and really to
connect with the divine femininewithin.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So, whether you're brand new to cacao or already
deep in ceremony with her, thisconversation will truly speak to
your soul.
Angelica shares so much beautyaround cacao's ancestral roots,
its spiritual purpose and how wecan all begin to connect with
it in our own intentionalheart-centered way.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So get cozy and join us as we explore the sacred
medicine with the radiantAngelica, grace.
Angelica, we're so excited tohave you back on the podcast
today.
For those who may be new toyour work, can you share a bit
about your journey?
We've talked about it beforewith psychic mediumship and your
transition from you knowhairstyling to what you're doing
(02:45):
now and how the profound impactyou have on so many from your
intuitive abilities.
But how has cacao helped you onyour journey and became a part
of it?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you guys.
Thank you for having me.
As I said before, anytime I cantalk about cacao, I am like
there for it.
So thank you guys.
But yeah, like you said, I'm anintuitive medium and about five
years ago, a little under fiveyears ago, I started a shamanic
apprenticeship, which is nowwith my father-in-law, so that's
(03:18):
how I met my husband, love.
That, yeah, and it's been areally beautiful journey and the
whole apprenticeship really iscentered around the Native
traditions of the North, others.
In a sense, the first step isyour own self-healing and
nurture and love.
And she has been a part of myown self-healing journey and I
(04:08):
do feel this deep, like almostresponsibility in sharing the
healing and the softness and thegentleness that she provides
for people, especially becausemy work ever since becoming a
mom, my work has really takenlike a sharp turn but it really
has been sort of shifted intothe space of supporting women
(04:30):
and mothers and just thefeminine energy in everybody,
because I feel that throughgenerations and our society it
does not create a space tonurture that part of us and I
think so many of us areemotionally burnt out,
physically burnt out and justreally stretched.
And when Cacao found me acouple of years ago.
(04:52):
The best way I could describeit is I feel like she called to
me.
That's the best way I coulddescribe any plant medicines
including chamomile and nettleand linden and lavender Like
these are medicines that are forus, for rebalancing ourselves
and nurturing and self-healing,and cacao being included in that
(05:13):
.
So when I really began thejourney I didn't realize I would
be sharing so much and I feellike the journey has just begun
for me.
So you know, with all respectto the Mayan culture and the
culture of cacao, you know I'lldo my best to share what I've
learned, but in a respectful way, because it is information that
(05:36):
I've learned that I hold verysacred, but also in combination,
my own sort of partnership thatI've grown with cacao.
So what I share is kind of likea blend of both of those.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I absolutely get that Respecting your teacher
because it's you know, it'slike such a huge part of your
development and what you've doneand grown from there.
And I've had my experience withcacao when I started my healing
journey, like, just like you,but not as I don't know as much.
(06:08):
So that's why Lizzie and I havebeen talking about wouldn't it
be amazing with you, with youknow so much in-depth knowledge
right now with cacao, to helpour listeners understand a
little bit more, because we'recurious too about you know the
benefits and the history andeverything that goes along with
it.
So I'm just going to peel itback a little bit to bring it to
(06:32):
such a simple question of howceremonial cacao is different
from what someone might buy interms of cocoa or something at
the grocery store or somethinglike that.
What it, what?
How like?
Obviously it's a plant, it's.
Where is it the origin?
Is it where you know where it'scoming from, the energy?
Can you talk us through that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, it's a great question because in the most
simplest form, it's, it's thepurest form of cacao.
Chocolate, right, it's, butit's so much more than that.
So like, let's say, chocolatethat you find in the grocery
store is added with milk andsugar and like all the ooey good
stuff, cacao is in its purestessence, but there's such a
(07:20):
sacredness and an integrity withthe nurturing of her because it
starts from the seed and itstarts from the land and it
starts with those that plant her, the farmers that plant her and
nourish her.
And it's this beautifulcombination of these generations
of people and families andlineages that this land and soil
(07:44):
and cacao seeds are sort ofpassed through the lineage.
And it comes with this reallybig, sacred responsibility of
caring for her.
And I think you had mentionedbefore we got on, like why was
it called?
Like the milk of the gods?
And it's been used for sincethe dawn of time as as a form of
(08:08):
of healing.
And there's this beautifulquote and I wish, I wish I would
have looked it up before I goton here, cause I'm I'm not going
to say it, I'm going to kind ofput my own little spin on it,
cause I can't remember it.
But there's this, there's thisquote that says cacao sort of
leaves the jungle and you knowthat space, when nature and
(08:31):
humans are so out of balance.
And she's here to sort of helpbring that balance and bridge
that balance back together andreconnect us back to nature and
connect us back to thatsimplicity of connection and
love and sacredness.
Us back to that simplicity ofconnection and love and
sacredness.
So to me it's it's as I keepusing the word responsibility,
but it's the sacred medicinethat really calls to you and
(08:54):
with, like, the utmost respectwhile working with her, you know
, particular, some of myintention as I work with her and
share her is to bring thathealing and that sacredness back
to people.
Like, again, we are sodisconnected from our innate
power and our innate wisdom andI'm going to use women just in
(09:16):
this particular conversation,just just for the heck of it but
we've been so disconnected fromour bodies and our wombs and
how we create life, and I feellike she's such a bridge back
into that.
So, like I said, it kind ofstarts from these generations of
families that are reallycultivating and caring for her
(09:37):
and that's part of the medicinethat she then brings to us.
So, depending on what regionand what lineage you are
receiving cacao from, you'regoing to have different healing
medicinal benefits and qualitiesand intentions.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You keep saying her or she, and I'm wondering why
you're saying that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, she to me is feminine energy.
She is correlated and connectedwith Grandmother Moon and
Mother Earth.
She is correlated and connectedwith Grandmother Moon and
Mother Earth so she brings thatessence of that bridge, of the
feminine and the mothernurturing energy.
So a lot of the training andconnection with her has been
this sort of healing of thatfeminine side and healing of
(10:19):
that relationship with MotherEarth and with the moon.
Within ourselves that's sobeautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I mean honestly, when you were sharing about it
before I was tearing up andgetting just really emotional.
Because when you talk about andI don't want to get all choked
up I mean I have my baby righthere with me.
So I totally feel you as a momand all this healing of the
(10:46):
sacred feminine things, and I'mjust like you're speaking to me
so much right now witheverything you're sharing about
cacao, and I'm just so curiousabout how this has helped you
heal.
If you feel open to sharing,like what are some of the ways
that this has helped you heal?
How have you used this andintegrated it into your own
(11:09):
practices to help you heal thesacred feminine?
And even like the women thatyou worked with, because this
just sounds just like incredibleand something that we all, as
women, need.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I, honestly it's.
I have full chills as you weresaying that.
So just confirmation ofeverything that's being spoken.
Cacao, how can I say this?
And I think, as women, let mestart with mothers, because and
(11:42):
this is just my opinion, sothat's again just really
clarifying that Women andmothers do not have the support
that they need and I don't thinkthey have for many, many, many
generations.
And we've sort of gotten out ofthe space of the sacredness that
the feminine provides to lifeitself, because women hold
creation and when mothers don'thave the nourishment that they
(12:07):
need, they're forced into thespace of producing and
overworking themselves, right.
So we have to rely on thatmasculine energy to survive and
we were kind of put into thesurvival mode, and particularly
postpartum, because it's such asacred time for women and
there's no support.
(12:27):
So we're going in now in thisbiggest depletion you know
postpartum is the biggestdepletion in minerals and blood
loss and you know you're caringfor this child and you have this
, you know, wound within youthat you're healing and this
emotional, you know shift andyou've crossed this threshold
(12:48):
into motherhood and we don'thave our elders to like, support
us.
You know Some people do right,but we've sort of gotten out of
that connectivity in thatcommunity and women are forced
back into things so quickly.
So going back, so I'll go, I'llkeep going on a tangent we all
can.
My own journey with cacao.
(13:09):
I come from a background ofdeep abuse, my whole life
dissociated for most of mychildhood and because of that I
had this really sense, this lowsense of self-worth and
people-pleasing tendencies,right, and I've sort of pushed
(13:30):
myself into, you know, to copeand to like my world was
centered around productivity,like I had to prove my worth, I
had to prove who I was, I had tobecome the best at everything,
right, it was all this likeforce and this push, and every
time that I did it it took mefurther and further away from
who I actually was, because Iwas trying to prove myself like
(14:01):
an activated healing space.
But what I mean is like I wasactively working through a lot
of the emotions that come withprocessing trauma which I know
so many of us can understand,you know, anxiety, depression,
really really frazzled andstretched nervous system.
So I was just always in fightor flight, always in the
sympathetic and I was just burntout all the time.
(14:23):
Like when I say emotionally, Imean like I had nothing left to
give and anything that I had Iwould give to others and not to
myself.
So it just prolonged theemotional disconnect, right.
So as I worked with Cacao.
In the beginning I really justlet her teach me.
So I would sit with her in themorning and I would work with
not a full dose of ceremonialcacao, just half of one, and I
(14:47):
would listen, I would use it asmy meditation and my connection
and I would allow her just tolike, help me feel love because
honestly it was.
I had a hard enough time justdoing that and as I progressed
forward over you know a year ortwo, I really worked with her to
help me understand who I was,help me connect back with my
heart, help me connect back with, helping me see my worth and
(15:08):
how I'm helping people and how Ican love myself deeper and
things like that.
So, as I said before, I had suchprofound experiences over that
time of just my own self-healingthat's always, you know,
continuing I was like there's noway I could not not share this
with people, because I know I'mnot the only one who experienced
what I experienced.
(15:29):
I know I'm not the only one whoexperienced fear or shame or
fight or flight or, you know,depleted energy, whatever it may
be.
So fast forward when we go intothis sort of ceremonial space
or this journey, it really issort of a space to do just that,
but in a collective environment.
So what I find with a lot ofpeople that I work with in the
(15:50):
healing space community goingback to right, like mothers and
elders, and you know, you havethe maiden, the mother and the
crone it's like we need thatcommunity to reflect back to
each other ourselves.
So I find when we're sitting ina ceremony or just just a
journey of connection, it'salmost like everything is
(16:11):
heightened.
So we have this collective sortof healing that takes place.
So and I can go deeper if youguys want into like what a
ceremony looks like and thingslike that, but I just wanted to,
yeah, that, actually that wouldbe wonderful.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm super curious, like what your ceremonies and
rituals, like what is workingwith cacao, look like in those,
and are there any other elementsthat you like to you know
incorporate into these, likebreath work or movement, or is
there anything else that youknow you're really an expert in
that you like to weave intothese ceremonies?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Sure.
So each ceremony really isdifferent.
So remember how I mentioned,depending on what cacao you're
working with, you have a littledifferent variation of healing.
That takes place In addition tothe energy of the farmers and
those that cared for cacao andyou know, dry and harvest her
and get her prepared for theopportunity for others to work
(17:06):
with her.
All of that is included in thehealing aspect, in addition to
the energy that I'm sort ofworking with when I'm preparing
the cacao.
So what I always tell eachceremony, each group, because we
do these monthly, what I alwaystell each ceremony, each group,
because we do these monthly, iswhen I'm working with her, I
really have her help, show mewhat the group needs, and what I
(17:33):
mean by that is I work withother healing medicinal plants
in the cacao, so sometimes Imight work with rose petal or
cardamom or lavender or orangepeel, cayenne pepper, honey.
There's different aspects, butall of that sort of brings this
balance and healing to the groupfor whatever they need.
So each journey looks different.
Sometimes it's centered aroundresting, sometimes it's centered
(17:55):
around receiving, sometimesit's, you know, insight into
yourself or your life, or what'sworking, what's not working.
It really is differentdepending on who's attending the
ceremony.
So the night before when I'mpreparing cacao, it's like I'm
receiving the information ofwhat the group needs, which then
includes, like what it actuallywould entail, like in the
(18:16):
ceremony.
So in the training that I havebeen in and will continue on the
rest of my life, the North andSouth American Native traditions
, with deep respect to them, asI share what I'm about to share.
I am no expert on thetraditions but I hold them very
sacred, as far as what I'velearned this far.
So I always do incorporate someof those traditions into the
(18:40):
ceremonies.
So if that's working withstones or water or flowers or
different herbs, breath work,body movement, dance, meditation
, drumming, journeys, it justreally depends on what the group
needs needs.
(19:04):
So it's kind of this likepartnership with cacao and and
with the universe, of likeproviding the space and then
just kind of opening it, holdingit and guiding people through
it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's great.
Yeah, no, no, it.
It absolutely made sense and ittied in also, you know, your
intuitive psychic mediumshipalso with you know getting the
messages before for what thegroup needs and seeing that
dynamic and how that can helpthem in that way.
So I a question for you.
(19:31):
You know, with many things thatteach us and that have so much
wisdom, if you know, let's say,lizzie and I wanted to do a
cacao ceremony, do we look forsomeone who has, like this cacao
wisdom and has done it for awhile and can facilitate it?
Or are we able to do it, buy itand do it ourselves with like
(19:51):
the tools you're telling us,like what's, what's the respect
for for her?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
That's a great question.
I want to see how I want toanswer that.
That's a great question.
I want to see how I want toanswer that no-transcript.
To me, when working with these,let's say this ancient wisdom, I
(20:21):
always view it as a partnership.
It's the same thing I view withmediumship I think I've said
this before Like I'm inpartnership with the ancestors
and with Mother Earth and withKakao and the moon, and so
there's always this kind of giveand take.
You know it's like I'm showingup, they're showing up, I'm
showing up, they're showing up.
So there's part, this kind ofgive and take.
You know it's like I'm showingup, they're showing up, I'm
showing up, they're showing up.
So there's part of me that wantsto say I do feel like working
with Kakao can be or is your ownpersonal journey with her.
(20:46):
So like I do encourage if shedoes call to you and you're like
I want to know how, you knowhow to do this.
I think, of course, likereaching out to someone who has
(21:13):
worked with cacao, just becauseit can just help guide you into
understanding what it feels like, what to expect, what not to
expect, because there's a coupleof different components to the
ceremonies itself, but alsoyou're continuing to receive
guidance a day, two, three daysafter working with cacao.
So it's almost like workingwith a guide or a facilitator
(21:35):
might just help you, like withexpectations or maybe like what
it could look like, so then youhave a little bit more going
into it and then from there, ofcourse, working with your own
partnership and your ownself-healing I think is a great
place to continue on.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, okay, and a question that popped up that I
was thinking of is there acertain time of day for cacao?
That's better, with the waythat the sun and the moon and
everything aligns with ourenergy, with getting in touch
with the feminine flow of ustrying to get back in with
nature.
When so many things are thrownat us, that is making it
difficult sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, that's another great question.
So I do find so.
Some cacao does have a littlebit of caffeine, but it has
what's called theobromine in thecacao and that is we can say
like that's the stimulant of it.
But what I mean by that is whycacao is called a heart opener
is because that theobromine,when really absorbed in the body
(22:33):
, is actually like opening upthe blood vessels, opening up
the blood, really getting thingsmoving.
So you get a little flushed,you get a little warm and things
start to open.
So that's why it's called thatheart opener.
But what I have found is it canbe stimulating for some people.
So like, if you were, I'mstarting training this week,
(22:53):
actually working with aparticular cacao with actually a
family in Guatemala, which isjust like I can talk about that
in a minute, because that, justhow that all happened, was just
incredible.
But that starts in the eveningtime, but that cacao is meant to
be worked at that time.
Right to the question generallyI say morning and afternoon is
(23:16):
like the best time to work withher, because you will have a
little bit of like an upliftedenergy which could keep you like
awake a little bit longer,because there is a little bit of
a stimulating effect.
With that being said, what alsokind of wants to come through is
the moon is really comingthrough, so, like our moon
cycles, so incredibly nourishingfor women when you're on your
(23:38):
cycle because of the actual,like physical benefits with all
the minerals and antioxidantsthat are in there, it really
helps support the moon cycle.
If you have any symptoms of,you know, cramping or whatever
it may be, it's really reallynourishing for the body.
So I would say morning,afternoon being like the best
time, and then also, if you'reon your moon cycle or about to,
(24:01):
it's a great place.
It would be gorgeous Full moonsyou know what I mean Like just
all of it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Great, and what are some common myths that are out
there about cacao, like anythingyou can think of.
That's just a common thing,that is not true.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's so funny this gets asked a lot actually
is like because it's called aplant medicine, people, and
because you do journey on it,right, and people are like are
you going to be like, journeying?
Like, is it like, are youayahuasca, other, correct,
correct?
Like are you going to be out inthe ethers?
Right, and you could bepotentially Like.
It's not.
(24:40):
You know, cacao is the oneguiding you essentially, but
it's not.
It doesn't have thatstimulating effect.
What it really is doing ishelping you connect back to your
body.
So, if anything, you'llactually feel more grounded,
more centered, more in peace andbecause of that, you have a
deeper sense of clarity ofthings.
So to me, it's like anintuitive, connecting piece to
(25:01):
the physical body and the heart.
But that would be like thebiggest one, because I hear that
all the time they're likewhat's this going to feel like?
And I'm like it's okay, we'lltalk about all this before, yeah
, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, you're like it's plant medicine.
Let's talk about what it'sgoing to be, how it's opening
your heart no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So in person we do at Healing Arts in Batavia,
illinois.
We do them monthly, so I dofacilitate them there.
I also actually created a wholejourney online because I feel
like I want to share this moreand it's centered around like
(26:00):
nurturing and awakening thefeminine energy.
So it's actually like a sixpart journey and it's all
self-paced.
So women when they join it,they kind of do a cacao monthly,
but on their own, like fullyguided, but it's all prerecorded
, so it's like at your own pace.
And all the cacao and the herbsthat we work with because we
work with a couple other plantmedicines are all sent to you.
(26:22):
So it's included in like theworking together.
And I've also done like privateevents, so like groups that
want to have you know, a groupof friends, like if I do group
readings or things like that.
I've had that with cacao aswell so people that want you to
like come into their home andprovide the ceremony itself.
So it's been a couple ofdifferent ways.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I could totally see that being something you know,
for you know, if we get together, you know baby shower, bridal
shower, just thinking becauseLizzie just had a baby, you know
, like things like that thatwould be such a beautiful thing
to have it in the afternoon forsomething like that.
So if someone's listening andthey want to purchase cacao, are
(27:03):
they going to a Whole Foods?
Are they going online?
Are they finding the farmer?
What is your recommendation onsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
So I would recommend going tolike the source.
I have a couple of sources thatI deeply, deeply love and I can
just kind of mention them here.
But one is called Mayan Moon,which is actually really
nourished by mothers in thisparticular village that work
(27:32):
with the cacao.
So it's a very nourishing likemother energy that comes through
.
Mbu is another one and you cango to just like mayanmooncom.
Mbucom, that's another smallfamily owned space that sources
cacao ethically, I think.
Keith's Cacao I've purchasedfrom there but I've never
(27:55):
personally worked with Keith'sCacao, but he's been around
forever.
So that's another local youknow, another source that you
can trust.
And Soul Lift is another one.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And we can link all of these in our show notes, so
that way it'll make it easy forpeople to find what you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So we really appreciate your recommendations.
Yeah, of course.
Again, it's like my intentionwith this was for whoever needed
to hear it for it to be, youknow, whatever they needed to
hear.
So, absolutely, we'll sharethose websites so you can find
them.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well, and so I think one thing that I'd really like
to know is one sacred lessonthat she has taught you that you
return to often in youreveryday life, like something
that you just fall back on.
Now You're like, oh, it's likeyour quote.
You know how we have thesequotes, do you have one?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh, that's a great question.
I would say, oh, this is sointeresting.
So what's really coming forwardis, um, there is strength in
gentleness and that is actuallyfrom animal medicine tarot deck
(29:15):
that we work a lot with, fromthe Lakota Nation, but that is
similar to deer medicine.
And the reason why I'mmentioning that is because I
think life can really stretch usand harden us and there can be
really really tough moments inlife and I think, as we're
(29:36):
really learning to lean into thefeminine and this intuitive
part and this patience and trust, really learning to stand in
who you are takes a lot ofcourage and it doesn't have to
be done in like a dominating way, because that dominating energy
to me is that masculine, whereit's like this big energy of
like I'm here and this is how itis and we're like throwing the
(29:58):
hammer down, and it's like wecan still be self-expressive and
creative and trustworthy andstill set and still keep people
where you know we want them tobe right, we still protect our
space and our solitude, and Ithink in doing that we can do it
in a really gentle,compassionate way, but still
(30:19):
find strength in ourselves indoing so, and to me that is like
the deepest form ofself-respect and self-worth, and
that has been probably thebiggest game changer, because I
learned over so many years howmuch I was actually abandoning
myself for other people, andthat's really allowed me to like
choose me, which is really hard, I think, when you don't know
(30:41):
how to do that and you werenever taught that.
So that's what I would say tothat.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's beautiful, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
We have what you're saying about women and putting
ourself almost last, and thenlayering anything that's
happened from childhood toadulthood to have that people
pleasing happening, and it justsounds like cacao can really
help you return to yourself andreturn to the rhythms of Mother
Gaia, of you know how we aresupposed to be in this rhythm
(31:16):
and not go against it so muchthat it can do With your, with
being a you know psychic mediumand also with the wisdom of
Cacao.
You said it a few times what'scoming through?
What's coming through for ourlisteners?
What is a message for ourlisteners that are listening now
from Cacao that she would wantto say?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, so the word curiosity is really coming in
and I think when we canreestablish our connection with
curiosity because I think aschildren I mean look at toddlers
, you know watch kids likethat's all they're, so that's
how they discover their world.
And I thought about this theother day with my daughter,
where I'm like where does thatend?
(32:03):
That end, like, where in ourlife did we become disconnected
from that curiosity of like,look at this rock on the ground
and this is so cool, and whydoes the wind blow?
And look at that tree, and it'slike living life, like to me,
motherhood is this likeinitiation to view life from
their eyes, and it's like it wassuch I have full chills.
(32:24):
It was such a game changer forme and such a big lesson that
really whacked me on the top ofthe head when I became a mom and
when I really surrendered intothat.
It allowed me to also regaincuriosity in my life.
And I think when we can getcurious about like, well, what
does my heart wanna do today?
What feels really good?
(32:46):
How do I wanna self-expresstoday?
How, what feels really good?
How do I want to self-expresstoday?
How do I want to create today?
How do I want to speak todayLike.
It's like we get in the space oflike well, how do I feel?
How do I actually feel aboutthat?
And it's like we can get intothe space of like, inner
dialogue.
And to me it's like, if cacao,if you're curious about cacao,
follow it, go Google.
(33:06):
Sometimes all you have to do iscommunicate that to the
universe of like okay, I'm readyto work with cacao, let the
teacher show up, let me knowwhere to go.
And it's like the right peoplethen come into that path.
So sometimes it's just adecision and declaring it.
So sometimes it's just adecision and declaring it.
(33:29):
But I think what really wantsto come in is like cacao, and a
returning like cacao can helpbring you to back to curiosity.
But also, if you're curiousabout something, follow it,
because there's something thatyour soul or your heart is
calling to you and there'ssomething there for you.
And it's like it's.
If you keep doing thatconsistently throughout the day,
it's like you start to findthat you're living in more of an
aligned space, like towardsyour life purpose and like
(33:52):
that's exactly what you said.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I'm like man, you know.
(34:14):
I feel like this wisdom, likeyou're saying it's it can't be
anything else other thanchanneled for people to be
saying and feeling similarthings in different ways and
then following that guidance andthen living this aligned life
that you're embodying right now,like that's who you are, that's
how you show up, that's why youare the person you are in this
moment, sharing this kind ofmedicine and these kinds of
(34:38):
gifts that you have with us, isbecause you've decided to follow
that excitement, follow thatcuriosity, follow those hits
that you're getting.
And now you're married, youhave a child.
Like all of these and thisincredible wisdom that you're
(34:59):
sharing with a differentgeneration, because while all
these people, these wonderfulguides that you're learning from
and other people are learningfrom, you know, nikki and I and
a lot of our listeners, like wedon't have access to that.
You know we have access to you.
So if we weren't able to talkto you, if we weren't here to
(35:20):
share and listen and ask withyou in this moment, who knows
when I would have learned this,when Nikki would have learned
this, and honestly, I'm likegravitating towards this so much
.
I'm like, man, I need to figureout how I can go to one in
person because I really, I'mreally bummed.
(35:40):
I'm not in Illinois.
Like, I'm going to be inMinnesota this summer.
I'm contemplating a mini roadtrip.
I'm going to be in Minnesotathis summer.
I'm contemplating a mini roadtrip.
I'm like, how do I do this?
You know, it's just it's.
I just want to thank you somuch for saying yes, I know
(36:01):
you're experiencing a lot inyour life and we just want to
say thank you so much for beinghere, for sharing with us.
Like I, this is my first time,just so y'all know, this is my
first time talking to.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Angelica and I'm like in love.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So thank you, Nikki, for bringing us all together
Anytime.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'm happy, my two favorite people together on a
podcast I wanted to share.
I wanted to share this too,because I have been.
I guess I'll declaring this now.
Well, the last time Nikki and Iwere on, I had said like, oh,
I'm going to try to travel toGuatemala to like really connect
with the family there, and andI was not ready to leave my baby
just yet, so I couldn't make it.
(36:46):
And now I had this opportunitylike literally I'm not kidding
fall into my lap of like workingwith a woman in Guatemala where
this cacao was passed downthrough her lineage, where, like
, I get to work with herparticular cacao and like listen
to her.
You know everything's beingtranslated and I'm just
listening online, like at theedge of my seat, like how is
(37:07):
this possible that I'm like here, and like it was such a moment
where I'm like I declared that,like I said, I'm going to go
learn from right.
So, going back, I have beentoying around with doing live
online ceremonies as well too.
So, as I say that we'll see nowif that comes to fruition, but,
like I said, if you're inMinnesota, as I say that we'll
(37:28):
see now if that comes tofruition, but, like I said if
you're in Minnesota, please comein person, and if not,
hopefully online versions willcontinue to become easily
available.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yes, well, when you've got one, we're putting it
all over our stuff.
Keep your eyes out, because assoon as there is a virtual one,
we will have it available.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Absolutely, we'd love to share it and your wisdom and
your charms coming in, likeyour charm and your wisdom and
your passion for it and yourrespect for it and your love for
it.
It's just really beautiful.
I feel like Lizzie and I justgot like a 30 minute PhD in
cacao and it was amazing.
(38:08):
Just you know such awell-rounded wisdom and love,
just so much, and we reallyappreciate you, like Lizzie said
, taking the time to chat withus and you know I'm sure this is
the second of many, many moreconversations, of course, Of
course, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Like I said, it's interesting because I am just
following the breadcrumbs whereI'm like I'm so passionate about
this, so I'm just like, okay,guys, you know, declaring it to
the universe, and I just what Iwant to say is it's incredibly
nourishing to hear all of thatfrom you guys, and I just want
(38:45):
to say thank you, becausesometimes this path can be a
little lonely and a little scary, particularly because of the
sacredness and respect towardsthe traditions, and I always
want to maintain that.
So I just want to say thank youfor your kind words, because it
means more than you know.
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Absolutely, it's from the heart.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
And we feel you so.
Thank you, and thank you to allof our listeners for being with
us for this conversation.
Now, please share this withanyone you think needs to hear
this message today or would findthis interesting.
Um, thank you again and we'llsee you all in the next episode
(39:43):
to the Modern Zen Collectivepodcast on all major platforms
and take the first steps towardselevating your mind, body and
spirit For all resourcesmentioned in this episode and to
connect with us and ourconscious community.
Check out the episode shownotes for all links and our
current offerings.
See y'all next time.
Hi, I'm Lizzie and I'm Nikki.
Have you ever felt that yourlife was missing purpose, joy or
deep connection?
Welcome to the Modern ZenCollective podcast, where we
embrace holistic living for ajoyful, purpose-driven life.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
In this podcast, we'll explore holistic practices
, consciousness expansion andspiritual alignment.
We will dive into personaldevelopment practices that
connect mind, body, spirit andshare secrets that ancient
cultures have known forcenturies.
Together, we aim to guide,educate and connect individuals
eager to transform their lives.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Join us weekly on the Modern Zen Collective podcast
and elevate your mind, body andspirit.
And now on to today's episode.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Welcome back everyone to the Modern Zen Collective
Podcast.
I'm Nikki and I'm Lizzie.
Hey everybody.
Today we're opening a sacredspace for a very special
conversation, one that's beencalling Lizzie and I in our
hearts for a while now.
We're diving into the sacredworld of cacao, not just as a
delicious drink or treat, but asa powerful plant medicine, a
(01:27):
heart opener and a guide on thepath of inner healing.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
So this is actually the very first time we're
bringing the magic of cacao intoour podcast space, and we
couldn't have a more alignedguest to share her wisdom with
you.
She's just so awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
You guys are going to love her so much.
Yes, it's Angelica Grace.
She's on our collective andshe's been on the pod before,
which we are so excited to haveher share today.
Everything about cacao.
She's a psychic, intuitivemedium and co-founder of the
Healing Arts Academy.
She's a devoted student andteacher of cacao, using it as a
sacred tool to nurturereconnection and really to
connect with the divine femininewithin.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So, whether you're brand new to cacao or already
deep in ceremony with her, thisconversation will truly speak to
your soul.
Angelica shares so much beautyaround cacao's ancestral roots,
its spiritual purpose and how wecan all begin to connect with
it in our own intentionalheart-centered way.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
So get cozy and join us as we explore the sacred
medicine with the radiantAngelica, grace.
Angelica, we're so excited tohave you back on the podcast
today.
For those who may be new toyour work, can you share a bit
about your journey?
We've talked about it beforewith psychic mediumship and your
transition from you knowhairstyling to what you're doing
(02:45):
now and how the profound impactyou have on so many from your
intuitive abilities.
But how has cacao helped you onyour journey and became a part
of it?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you guys.
Thank you for having me.
As I said before, anytime I cantalk about cacao, I am like
there for it.
So thank you guys.
But yeah, like you said, I'm anintuitive medium and about five
years ago, a little under fiveyears ago, I started a shamanic
apprenticeship, which is nowwith my father-in-law, so that's
(03:18):
how I met my husband, love.
That, yeah, and it's been areally beautiful journey and the
whole apprenticeship really iscentered around the Native
traditions of the North, others.
In a sense, the first step isyour own self-healing and
nurture and love.
And she has been a part of myown self-healing journey and I
(04:08):
do feel this deep, like almostresponsibility in sharing the
healing and the softness and thegentleness that she provides
for people, especially becausemy work ever since becoming a
mom, my work has really takenlike a sharp turn but it really
has been sort of shifted intothe space of supporting women
(04:30):
and mothers and just thefeminine energy in everybody,
because I feel that throughgenerations and our society it
does not create a space tonurture that part of us and I
think so many of us areemotionally burnt out,
physically burnt out and justreally stretched.
And when Cacao found me acouple of years ago.
(04:52):
The best way I could describeit is I feel like she called to
me.
That's the best way I coulddescribe any plant medicines
including chamomile and nettleand linden and lavender Like
these are medicines that are forus, for rebalancing ourselves
and nurturing and self-healing,and cacao being included in that
(05:13):
.
So when I really began thejourney I didn't realize I would
be sharing so much and I feellike the journey has just begun
for me.
So you know, with all respectto the Mayan culture and the
culture of cacao, you know I'lldo my best to share what I've
learned, but in a respectful way, because it is information that
(05:36):
I've learned that I hold verysacred, but also in combination,
my own sort of partnership thatI've grown with cacao.
So what I share is kind of likea blend of both of those.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, I absolutely get that Respecting your teacher
because it's you know, it'slike such a huge part of your
development and what you've doneand grown from there.
And I've had my experience withcacao when I started my healing
journey, like, just like you,but not as I don't know as much.
(06:08):
So that's why Lizzie and I havebeen talking about wouldn't it
be amazing with you, with youknow so much in-depth knowledge
right now with cacao, to helpour listeners understand a
little bit more, because we'recurious too about you know the
benefits and the history andeverything that goes along with
it.
So I'm just going to peel itback a little bit to bring it to
(06:32):
such a simple question of howceremonial cacao is different
from what someone might buy interms of cocoa or something at
the grocery store or somethinglike that.
What it, what?
How like?
Obviously it's a plant, it's.
Where is it the origin?
Is it where you know where it'scoming from, the energy?
Can you talk us through that alittle bit?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, it's a great question because in the most
simplest form, it's, it's thepurest form of cacao.
Chocolate, right, it's, butit's so much more than that.
So like, let's say, chocolatethat you find in the grocery
store is added with milk andsugar and like all the ooey good
stuff, cacao is in its purestessence, but there's such a
(07:20):
sacredness and an integrity withthe nurturing of her because it
starts from the seed and itstarts from the land and it
starts with those that plant her, the farmers that plant her and
nourish her.
And it's this beautifulcombination of these generations
of people and families andlineages that this land and soil
(07:44):
and cacao seeds are sort ofpassed through the lineage.
And it comes with this reallybig, sacred responsibility of
caring for her.
And I think you had mentionedbefore we got on, like why was
it called?
Like the milk of the gods?
And it's been used for sincethe dawn of time as as a form of
(08:08):
of healing.
And there's this beautifulquote and I wish, I wish I would
have looked it up before I goton here, cause I'm I'm not going
to say it, I'm going to kind ofput my own little spin on it,
cause I can't remember it.
But there's this, there's thisquote that says cacao sort of
leaves the jungle and you knowthat space, when nature and
(08:31):
humans are so out of balance.
And she's here to sort of helpbring that balance and bridge
that balance back together andreconnect us back to nature and
connect us back to thatsimplicity of connection and
love and sacredness.
Us back to that simplicity ofconnection and love and
sacredness.
So to me it's it's as I keepusing the word responsibility,
but it's the sacred medicinethat really calls to you and
(08:54):
with, like, the utmost respectwhile working with her, you know
, particular, some of myintention as I work with her and
share her is to bring thathealing and that sacredness back
to people.
Like, again, we are sodisconnected from our innate
power and our innate wisdom andI'm going to use women just in
(09:16):
this particular conversation,just just for the heck of it but
we've been so disconnected fromour bodies and our wombs and
how we create life, and I feellike she's such a bridge back
into that.
So, like I said, it kind ofstarts from these generations of
families that are reallycultivating and caring for her
(09:37):
and that's part of the medicinethat she then brings to us.
So, depending on what regionand what lineage you are
receiving cacao from, you'regoing to have different healing
medicinal benefits and qualitiesand intentions.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
You keep saying her or she, and I'm wondering why
you're saying that.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, she to me is feminine energy.
She is correlated and connectedwith Grandmother Moon and
Mother Earth.
She is correlated and connectedwith Grandmother Moon and
Mother Earth so she brings thatessence of that bridge, of the
feminine and the mothernurturing energy.
So a lot of the training andconnection with her has been
this sort of healing of thatfeminine side and healing of
(10:19):
that relationship with MotherEarth and with the moon.
Within ourselves that's sobeautiful.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
I mean honestly, when you were sharing about it
before I was tearing up andgetting just really emotional.
Because when you talk about andI don't want to get all choked
up I mean I have my baby righthere with me.
So I totally feel you as a momand all this healing of the
(10:46):
sacred feminine things, and I'mjust like you're speaking to me
so much right now witheverything you're sharing about
cacao, and I'm just so curiousabout how this has helped you
heal.
If you feel open to sharing,like what are some of the ways
that this has helped you heal?
How have you used this andintegrated it into your own
(11:09):
practices to help you heal thesacred feminine?
And even like the women thatyou worked with, because this
just sounds just like incredibleand something that we all, as
women, need.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I, honestly it's.
I have full chills as you weresaying that.
So just confirmation ofeverything that's being spoken.
Cacao, how can I say this?
And I think, as women, let mestart with mothers, because and
(11:42):
this is just my opinion, sothat's again just really
clarifying that Women andmothers do not have the support
that they need and I don't thinkthey have for many, many, many
generations.
And we've sort of gotten out ofthe space of the sacredness that
the feminine provides to lifeitself, because women hold
creation and when mothers don'thave the nourishment that they
(12:07):
need, they're forced into thespace of producing and
overworking themselves, right.
So we have to rely on thatmasculine energy to survive and
we were kind of put into thesurvival mode, and particularly
postpartum, because it's such asacred time for women and
there's no support.
(12:27):
So we're going in now in thisbiggest depletion you know
postpartum is the biggestdepletion in minerals and blood
loss and you know you're caringfor this child and you have this
, you know, wound within youthat you're healing and this
emotional, you know shift andyou've crossed this threshold
(12:48):
into motherhood and we don'thave our elders to like, support
us.
You know Some people do right,but we've sort of gotten out of
that connectivity in thatcommunity and women are forced
back into things so quickly.
So going back, so I'll go, I'llkeep going on a tangent we all
can.
My own journey with cacao.
(13:09):
I come from a background ofdeep abuse, my whole life
dissociated for most of mychildhood and because of that I
had this really sense, this lowsense of self-worth and
people-pleasing tendencies,right, and I've sort of pushed
(13:30):
myself into, you know, to copeand to like my world was
centered around productivity,like I had to prove my worth, I
had to prove who I was, I had tobecome the best at everything,
right, it was all this likeforce and this push, and every
time that I did it it took mefurther and further away from
who I actually was, because Iwas trying to prove myself like
(14:01):
an activated healing space.
But what I mean is like I wasactively working through a lot
of the emotions that come withprocessing trauma which I know
so many of us can understand,you know, anxiety, depression,
really really frazzled andstretched nervous system.
So I was just always in fightor flight, always in the
sympathetic and I was just burntout all the time.
(14:23):
Like when I say emotionally, Imean like I had nothing left to
give and anything that I had Iwould give to others and not to
myself.
So it just prolonged theemotional disconnect, right.
So as I worked with Cacao.
In the beginning I really justlet her teach me.
So I would sit with her in themorning and I would work with
not a full dose of ceremonialcacao, just half of one, and I
(14:47):
would listen, I would use it asmy meditation and my connection
and I would allow her just tolike, help me feel love because
honestly it was.
I had a hard enough time justdoing that and as I progressed
forward over you know a year ortwo, I really worked with her to
help me understand who I was,help me connect back with my
heart, help me connect back with, helping me see my worth and
(15:08):
how I'm helping people and how Ican love myself deeper and
things like that.
So, as I said before, I had suchprofound experiences over that
time of just my own self-healingthat's always, you know,
continuing I was like there's noway I could not not share this
with people, because I know I'mnot the only one who experienced
what I experienced.
(15:29):
I know I'm not the only one whoexperienced fear or shame or
fight or flight or, you know,depleted energy, whatever it may
be.
So fast forward when we go intothis sort of ceremonial space
or this journey, it really issort of a space to do just that,
but in a collective environment.
So what I find with a lot ofpeople that I work with in the
(15:50):
healing space community goingback to right, like mothers and
elders, and you know, you havethe maiden, the mother and the
crone it's like we need thatcommunity to reflect back to
each other ourselves.
So I find when we're sitting ina ceremony or just just a
journey of connection, it'salmost like everything is
(16:11):
heightened.
So we have this collective sortof healing that takes place.
So and I can go deeper if youguys want into like what a
ceremony looks like and thingslike that, but I just wanted to,
yeah, that, actually that wouldbe wonderful.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I'm super curious, like what your ceremonies and
rituals, like what is workingwith cacao, look like in those,
and are there any other elementsthat you like to you know
incorporate into these, likebreath work or movement, or is
there anything else that youknow you're really an expert in
that you like to weave intothese ceremonies?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Sure.
So each ceremony really isdifferent.
So remember how I mentioned,depending on what cacao you're
working with, you have a littledifferent variation of healing.
That takes place In addition tothe energy of the farmers and
those that cared for cacao andyou know, dry and harvest her
and get her prepared for theopportunity for others to work
(17:06):
with her.
All of that is included in thehealing aspect, in addition to
the energy that I'm sort ofworking with when I'm preparing
the cacao.
So what I always tell eachceremony, each group, because we
do these monthly, what I alwaystell each ceremony, each group,
because we do these monthly, iswhen I'm working with her, I
really have her help, show mewhat the group needs, and what I
(17:33):
mean by that is I work withother healing medicinal plants
in the cacao, so sometimes Imight work with rose petal or
cardamom or lavender or orangepeel, cayenne pepper, honey.
There's different aspects, butall of that sort of brings this
balance and healing to the groupfor whatever they need.
So each journey looks different.
Sometimes it's centered aroundresting, sometimes it's centered
(17:55):
around receiving, sometimesit's, you know, insight into
yourself or your life, or what'sworking, what's not working.
It really is differentdepending on who's attending the
ceremony.
So the night before when I'mpreparing cacao, it's like I'm
receiving the information ofwhat the group needs, which then
includes, like what it actuallywould entail, like in the
(18:16):
ceremony.
So in the training that I havebeen in and will continue on the
rest of my life, the North andSouth American Native traditions
, with deep respect to them, asI share what I'm about to share.
I am no expert on thetraditions but I hold them very
sacred, as far as what I'velearned this far.
So I always do incorporate someof those traditions into the
(18:40):
ceremonies.
So if that's working withstones or water or flowers or
different herbs, breath work,body movement, dance, meditation
, drumming, journeys, it justreally depends on what the group
needs needs.
(19:04):
So it's kind of this likepartnership with cacao and and
with the universe, of likeproviding the space and then
just kind of opening it, holdingit and guiding people through
it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's great.
Yeah, no, no, it.
It absolutely made sense and ittied in also, you know, your
intuitive psychic mediumshipalso with you know getting the
messages before for what thegroup needs and seeing that
dynamic and how that can helpthem in that way.
So I a question for you.
(19:31):
You know, with many things thatteach us and that have so much
wisdom, if you know, let's say,lizzie and I wanted to do a
cacao ceremony, do we look forsomeone who has, like this cacao
wisdom and has done it for awhile and can facilitate it?
Or are we able to do it, buy itand do it ourselves with like
(19:51):
the tools you're telling us,like what's, what's the respect
for for her?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
That's a great question.
I want to see how I want toanswer that.
That's a great question.
I want to see how I want toanswer that no-transcript.
To me, when working with these,let's say this ancient wisdom, I
(20:21):
always view it as a partnership.
It's the same thing I view withmediumship I think I've said
this before Like I'm inpartnership with the ancestors
and with Mother Earth and withKakao and the moon, and so
there's always this kind of giveand take.
You know it's like I'm showingup, they're showing up, I'm
showing up, they're showing up.
So there's part, this kind ofgive and take.
You know it's like I'm showingup, they're showing up, I'm
showing up, they're showing up.
So there's part of me that wantsto say I do feel like working
with Kakao can be or is your ownpersonal journey with her.
(20:46):
So like I do encourage if shedoes call to you and you're like
I want to know how, you knowhow to do this.
I think, of course, likereaching out to someone who has
(21:13):
worked with cacao, just becauseit can just help guide you into
understanding what it feels like, what to expect, what not to
expect, because there's a coupleof different components to the
ceremonies itself, but alsoyou're continuing to receive
guidance a day, two, three daysafter working with cacao.
So it's almost like workingwith a guide or a facilitator
(21:35):
might just help you, like withexpectations or maybe like what
it could look like, so then youhave a little bit more going
into it and then from there, ofcourse, working with your own
partnership and your ownself-healing I think is a great
place to continue on.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, okay, and a question that popped up that I
was thinking of is there acertain time of day for cacao?
That's better, with the waythat the sun and the moon and
everything aligns with ourenergy, with getting in touch
with the feminine flow of ustrying to get back in with
nature.
When so many things are thrownat us, that is making it
difficult sometimes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, that's another great question.
So I do find so.
Some cacao does have a littlebit of caffeine, but it has
what's called theobromine in thecacao and that is we can say
like that's the stimulant of it.
But what I mean by that is whycacao is called a heart opener
is because that theobromine,when really absorbed in the body
(22:33):
, is actually like opening upthe blood vessels, opening up
the blood, really getting thingsmoving.
So you get a little flushed,you get a little warm and things
start to open.
So that's why it's called thatheart opener.
But what I have found is it canbe stimulating for some people.
So like, if you were, I'mstarting training this week,
(22:53):
actually working with aparticular cacao with actually a
family in Guatemala, which isjust like I can talk about that
in a minute, because that, justhow that all happened, was just
incredible.
But that starts in the eveningtime, but that cacao is meant to
be worked at that time.
Right to the question generallyI say morning and afternoon is
(23:16):
like the best time to work withher, because you will have a
little bit of like an upliftedenergy which could keep you like
awake a little bit longer,because there is a little bit of
a stimulating effect.
With that being said, what alsokind of wants to come through is
the moon is really comingthrough, so, like our moon
cycles, so incredibly nourishingfor women when you're on your
(23:38):
cycle because of the actual,like physical benefits with all
the minerals and antioxidantsthat are in there, it really
helps support the moon cycle.
If you have any symptoms of,you know, cramping or whatever
it may be, it's really reallynourishing for the body.
So I would say morning,afternoon being like the best
time, and then also, if you'reon your moon cycle or about to,
(24:01):
it's a great place.
It would be gorgeous Full moonsyou know what I mean Like just
all of it, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Great, and what are some common myths that are out
there about cacao, like anythingyou can think of.
That's just a common thing,that is not true.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah, it's so funny this gets asked a lot actually
is like because it's called aplant medicine, people, and
because you do journey on it,right, and people are like are
you going to be like, journeying?
Like, is it like, are youayahuasca, other, correct,
correct?
Like are you going to be out inthe ethers?
Right, and you could bepotentially Like.
It's not.
(24:40):
You know, cacao is the oneguiding you essentially, but
it's not.
It doesn't have thatstimulating effect.
What it really is doing ishelping you connect back to your
body.
So, if anything, you'llactually feel more grounded,
more centered, more in peace andbecause of that, you have a
deeper sense of clarity ofthings.
So to me, it's like anintuitive, connecting piece to
(25:01):
the physical body and the heart.
But that would be like thebiggest one, because I hear that
all the time they're likewhat's this going to feel like?
And I'm like it's okay, we'lltalk about all this before, yeah
, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, you're like it's plant medicine.
Let's talk about what it'sgoing to be, how it's opening
your heart no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So in person we do at Healing Arts in Batavia,
illinois.
We do them monthly, so I dofacilitate them there.
I also actually created a wholejourney online because I feel
like I want to share this moreand it's centered around like
(26:00):
nurturing and awakening thefeminine energy.
So it's actually like a sixpart journey and it's all
self-paced.
So women when they join it,they kind of do a cacao monthly,
but on their own, like fullyguided, but it's all prerecorded
, so it's like at your own pace.
And all the cacao and the herbsthat we work with because we
work with a couple other plantmedicines are all sent to you.
(26:22):
So it's included in like theworking together.
And I've also done like privateevents, so like groups that
want to have you know, a groupof friends, like if I do group
readings or things like that.
I've had that with cacao aswell so people that want you to
like come into their home andprovide the ceremony itself.
So it's been a couple ofdifferent ways.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I could totally see that being something you know,
for you know, if we get together, you know baby shower, bridal
shower, just thinking becauseLizzie just had a baby, you know
, like things like that thatwould be such a beautiful thing
to have it in the afternoon forsomething like that.
So if someone's listening andthey want to purchase cacao, are
(27:03):
they going to a Whole Foods?
Are they going online?
Are they finding the farmer?
What is your recommendation onsomething like that?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah.
So I would recommend going tolike the source.
I have a couple of sources thatI deeply, deeply love and I can
just kind of mention them here.
But one is called Mayan Moon,which is actually really
nourished by mothers in thisparticular village that work
(27:32):
with the cacao.
So it's a very nourishing likemother energy that comes through
.
Mbu is another one and you cango to just like mayanmooncom.
Mbucom, that's another smallfamily owned space that sources
cacao ethically, I think.
Keith's Cacao I've purchasedfrom there but I've never
(27:55):
personally worked with Keith'sCacao, but he's been around
forever.
So that's another local youknow, another source that you
can trust.
And Soul Lift is another one.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And we can link all of these in our show notes, so
that way it'll make it easy forpeople to find what you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
So we really appreciate your recommendations.
Yeah, of course.
Again, it's like my intentionwith this was for whoever needed
to hear it for it to be, youknow, whatever they needed to
hear.
So, absolutely, we'll sharethose websites so you can find
them.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Well, and so I think one thing that I'd really like
to know is one sacred lessonthat she has taught you that you
return to often in youreveryday life, like something
that you just fall back on.
Now You're like, oh, it's likeyour quote.
You know how we have thesequotes, do you have one?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Oh, that's a great question.
I would say, oh, this is sointeresting.
So what's really coming forwardis, um, there is strength in
gentleness and that is actuallyfrom animal medicine tarot deck
(29:15):
that we work a lot with, fromthe Lakota Nation, but that is
similar to deer medicine.
And the reason why I'mmentioning that is because I
think life can really stretch usand harden us and there can be
really really tough moments inlife and I think, as we're
(29:36):
really learning to lean into thefeminine and this intuitive
part and this patience and trust, really learning to stand in
who you are takes a lot ofcourage and it doesn't have to
be done in like a dominating way, because that dominating energy
to me is that masculine, whereit's like this big energy of
like I'm here and this is how itis and we're like throwing the
(29:58):
hammer down, and it's like wecan still be self-expressive and
creative and trustworthy andstill set and still keep people
where you know we want them tobe right, we still protect our
space and our solitude, and Ithink in doing that we can do it
in a really gentle,compassionate way, but still
(30:19):
find strength in ourselves indoing so, and to me that is like
the deepest form ofself-respect and self-worth, and
that has been probably thebiggest game changer, because I
learned over so many years howmuch I was actually abandoning
myself for other people, andthat's really allowed me to like
choose me, which is really hard, I think, when you don't know
(30:41):
how to do that and you werenever taught that.
So that's what I would say tothat.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
That's beautiful, thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
We have what you're saying about women and putting
ourself almost last, and thenlayering anything that's
happened from childhood toadulthood to have that people
pleasing happening, and it justsounds like cacao can really
help you return to yourself andreturn to the rhythms of Mother
Gaia, of you know how we aresupposed to be in this rhythm
(31:16):
and not go against it so muchthat it can do With your, with
being a you know psychic mediumand also with the wisdom of
Cacao.
You said it a few times what'scoming through?
What's coming through for ourlisteners?
What is a message for ourlisteners that are listening now
from Cacao that she would wantto say?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, so the word curiosity is really coming in
and I think when we canreestablish our connection with
curiosity because I think aschildren I mean look at toddlers
, you know watch kids likethat's all they're, so that's
how they discover their world.
And I thought about this theother day with my daughter,
where I'm like where does thatend?
(32:03):
That end, like, where in ourlife did we become disconnected
from that curiosity of like,look at this rock on the ground
and this is so cool, and whydoes the wind blow?
And look at that tree, and it'slike living life, like to me,
motherhood is this likeinitiation to view life from
their eyes, and it's like it wassuch I have full chills.
(32:24):
It was such a game changer forme and such a big lesson that
really whacked me on the top ofthe head when I became a mom and
when I really surrendered intothat.
It allowed me to also regaincuriosity in my life.
And I think when we can getcurious about like, well, what
does my heart wanna do today?
What feels really good?
(32:46):
How do I wanna self-expresstoday?
How, what feels really good?
How do I want to self-expresstoday?
How do I want to create today?
How do I want to speak todayLike.
It's like we get in the space oflike well, how do I feel?
How do I actually feel aboutthat?
And it's like we can get intothe space of like, inner
dialogue.
And to me it's like, if cacao,if you're curious about cacao,
follow it, go Google.
(33:06):
Sometimes all you have to do iscommunicate that to the
universe of like okay, I'm readyto work with cacao, let the
teacher show up, let me knowwhere to go.
And it's like the right peoplethen come into that path.
So sometimes it's just adecision and declaring it.
So sometimes it's just adecision and declaring it.
(33:29):
But I think what really wantsto come in is like cacao, and a
returning like cacao can helpbring you to back to curiosity.
But also, if you're curiousabout something, follow it,
because there's something thatyour soul or your heart is
calling to you and there'ssomething there for you.
And it's like it's.
If you keep doing thatconsistently throughout the day,
it's like you start to findthat you're living in more of an
aligned space, like towardsyour life purpose and like
(33:52):
that's exactly what you said.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I'm like man, you know.
(34:14):
I feel like this wisdom, likeyou're saying it's it can't be
anything else other thanchanneled for people to be
saying and feeling similarthings in different ways and
then following that guidance andthen living this aligned life
that you're embodying right now,like that's who you are, that's
how you show up, that's why youare the person you are in this
moment, sharing this kind ofmedicine and these kinds of
(34:38):
gifts that you have with us, isbecause you've decided to follow
that excitement, follow thatcuriosity, follow those hits
that you're getting.
And now you're married, youhave a child.
Like all of these and thisincredible wisdom that you're
(34:59):
sharing with a differentgeneration, because while all
these people, these wonderfulguides that you're learning from
and other people are learningfrom, you know, nikki and I and
a lot of our listeners, like wedon't have access to that.
You know we have access to you.
So if we weren't able to talkto you, if we weren't here to
(35:20):
share and listen and ask withyou in this moment, who knows
when I would have learned this,when Nikki would have learned
this, and honestly, I'm likegravitating towards this so much
.
I'm like, man, I need to figureout how I can go to one in
person because I really, I'mreally bummed.
(35:40):
I'm not in Illinois.
Like, I'm going to be inMinnesota this summer.
I'm contemplating a mini roadtrip.
I'm going to be in Minnesotathis summer.
I'm contemplating a mini roadtrip.
I'm like, how do I do this?
You know, it's just it's.
I just want to thank you somuch for saying yes, I know
(36:01):
you're experiencing a lot inyour life and we just want to
say thank you so much for beinghere, for sharing with us.
Like I, this is my first time,just so y'all know, this is my
first time talking to.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Angelica and I'm like in love.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So thank you, Nikki, for bringing us all together
Anytime.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I'm happy, my two favorite people together on a
podcast I wanted to share.
I wanted to share this too,because I have been.
I guess I'll declaring this now.
Well, the last time Nikki and Iwere on, I had said like, oh,
I'm going to try to travel toGuatemala to like really connect
with the family there, and andI was not ready to leave my baby
just yet, so I couldn't make it.
(36:46):
And now I had this opportunitylike literally I'm not kidding
fall into my lap of like workingwith a woman in Guatemala where
this cacao was passed downthrough her lineage, where, like
, I get to work with herparticular cacao and like listen
to her.
You know everything's beingtranslated and I'm just
listening online, like at theedge of my seat, like how is
(37:07):
this possible that I'm like here, and like it was such a moment
where I'm like I declared that,like I said, I'm going to go
learn from right.
So, going back, I have beentoying around with doing live
online ceremonies as well too.
So, as I say that we'll see nowif that comes to fruition, but,
like I said, if you're inMinnesota, as I say that we'll
(37:28):
see now if that comes tofruition, but, like I said if
you're in Minnesota, please comein person, and if not,
hopefully online versions willcontinue to become easily
available.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Yes, well, when you've got one, we're putting it
all over our stuff.
Keep your eyes out, because assoon as there is a virtual one,
we will have it available.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Absolutely, we'd love to share it and your wisdom and
your charms coming in, likeyour charm and your wisdom and
your passion for it and yourrespect for it and your love for
it.
It's just really beautiful.
I feel like Lizzie and I justgot like a 30 minute PhD in
cacao and it was amazing.
(38:08):
Just you know such awell-rounded wisdom and love,
just so much, and we reallyappreciate you, like Lizzie said
, taking the time to chat withus and you know I'm sure this is
the second of many, many moreconversations, of course, Of
course, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Like I said, it's interesting because I am just
following the breadcrumbs whereI'm like I'm so passionate about
this, so I'm just like, okay,guys, you know, declaring it to
the universe, and I just what Iwant to say is it's incredibly
nourishing to hear all of thatfrom you guys, and I just want
(38:45):
to say thank you, becausesometimes this path can be a
little lonely and a little scary, particularly because of the
sacredness and respect towardsthe traditions, and I always
want to maintain that.
So I just want to say thank youfor your kind words, because it
means more than you know.
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Absolutely, it's from the heart.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
And we feel you so.
Thank you, and thank you to allof our listeners for being with
us for this conversation.
Now, please share this withanyone you think needs to hear
this message today or would findthis interesting.
Um, thank you again and we'llsee you all in the next episode
(39:43):
to the Modern Zen Collectivepodcast on all major platforms
and take the first steps towardselevating your mind, body and
spirit For all resourcesmentioned in this episode and to
connect with us and ourconscious community.
Check out the episode shownotes for all links and our
current offerings.
See y'all next time.
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