Raising Confident Children: The Art Of A Reward System + How To Appropriately Praise Your Child

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Welcome back to the Mom Sense podcast with Molly and Meg.
I am Molly. And I'm Meg.
OK, so an update for you today Ihad a brilliant idea of taking
Penelope to the mall. It was a freaking stupid idea.
Like I was so discouraged today.I was like, so excited to do

(00:32):
something, I don't know, fun. Fun for me.
And like, I had it planned out where she was going to nap in
the car. We were going to go shopping and
it's not like I'm going to shop for a long time.
I needed to get Taylor somethingto wear for our family pictures
this weekend. Gotcha.
And she didn't nap the whole hour drive there.
And she was almost asleep as we pulled into the parking lot.

(00:55):
So I did a quick assessment and I was like, I could drive around
this town for an hour and let her sleep in the car aimlessly
around this town that I don't know because I went to a mall
that's an hour away from my house and she's dozing.
Her eyes are so heavy she's about to fall asleep.
Or I could put her laying down in the wagon and I bet you if I
put her on her belly, she'll suck her thumb and go to sleep.

(01:18):
And that's what I chose. Sounds smart right?
Now she woke right back up and Ishopped for an hour and a half,
never went to bed. I took a lap around the mall
hoping that me walking would puther to sleep and she didn't.
So I'm got Taylor his outfit andI really like really wanted to
find something for myself. I'm glad I got something for
Taylor which is why I went, but I wanted to find something for

(01:40):
myself because I have two options.
Neither I love and it's my firsttime getting pictures taken of
myself postpartum. I just want to feel good about
myself and Penny was not having it.
She was freaking out. I should have stayed home.
I was so frustrated today. You shouldn't have stayed home
because you got something for Taylor, but that is very
frustrating and that is a perfect depiction of what it's

(02:03):
like to do anything with young children.
I was just so mad at myself. I should have just drove around.
I do that all the time where if she falls asleep I just happily
drive around. I should have just done that all
day. It would have went better.
I chose the riskier of the two options and it didn't work out
today. She did sleep for about 45
minutes on the way home. Then we got home, we played for

(02:25):
an hour and a half and I was like, OK, now is the typical
time for her second nap. It's a little bit of a short
awake time between the two naps,but she didn't sleep very much
the first time. So I tried to put her back down
and she never took her second nap.
Just sat up in her crib sucking her thumb, playing with her
hands for an hour. And I was like, dude, she never

(02:47):
cried. She was fine in there.
But like she never took her second nap.
And then I was like, Oh my God, today's been the worst day we've
had in so long. Yeah, it sounds rough.
Also, even though she was fine in her crib, it's still really
rough for you because you probably feel like you can't
really relax or dive into something because at any moment
you're like, I don't know, you're like on guard.

(03:08):
Yeah, I was like, I needed to dodish, I needed to do the bottles
and pump parts. So I did dishes while, you know,
every two minutes when the screen would go dark, clicking
the monitor back on to make sureshe had like, flop over or
something because she's still rusty getting like, in and out
of a seated position. So sometimes she'll just like,
flop over. So anyway, I was watching that

(03:30):
while he's doing the dishes. And then after that, I was like
trying to do laundry, but also not like, want, Yeah, not
wanting to get too deep into anything.
So yeah, I didn't get a whole lot done and.
I'm sorry. It was a hot mess today.
Yeah, I know how that goes. Yeah, question for all the moms
that had postpartum depression. When you come out of it and
you're feeling great and then you have a bad day, does it ring

(03:52):
all the bells? It makes me feel like wow we've
really come so freaking far because I feel like crap today
and I haven't felt like this in a long time and I'm frustrated.
I know that it's day-to-day and it'll probably feel fine
tomorrow, but I. Mean.
Yeah, of course. Frustrating to go back to the
beginning. Of course, that's a possibility.
But yeah, it doesn't alleviate how you're feeling right now.

(04:13):
And there's all this pressure oflike, you have to get enough
sleep tonight, She has to get enough sleep tonight.
You're not, by the way, you're not gonna get enough sleep
tonight. And then like, yeah, it's just
there's a lot of different factors that go into making sure
that you have a good day with young children who are very,
very unpredictable. I know.
And we have a schedule and we stick to it.

(04:34):
And Penny does phenomenally. And I have been better since we
started doing the schedule. And it's just disheartening
that, like, the first time I tryto rock the boat, it's like
this. Yeah.
The first time I try to step outof it and do what other moms do
so easily, and the baby just goes with the flow.
My baby does not. And I need to, you know, stop

(04:55):
trying to change that. It's fine.
We're both happier when we follow the schedule.
I don't know why I tried to messit up.
I yeah, in my experience, Reese didn't go with the flow either,
but it's because I stuck to a really strict schedule.
Her Brooke does go with the flow, but it's because Brooke
has been out and about since since she was a week old.

(05:16):
So I don't know if it has anything to do with your
lifestyle and if you are sticking to a schedule or not.
And that predicts their degree of flexibility or not, but
doesn't make it any easier on you.
Yeah. So today had the potential of
being a really exciting day and I was very excited for it and
then didn't work out. Are you going to have any other
opportunities to go look for another outfit for you?

(05:38):
Taylor said. I could go on Saturday morning,
but our pagers are Saturday night and I just don't know if I
want the pressure of having to find something.
And our pagers are at 6:30 at night, so Penny's naps have to
go good that day so that she'll be willing to participate at
6:30 at night. But I have options, they're just
now I don't know. No, I know exactly what you

(06:01):
mean. Yeah, they're fine.
But it's also very hard for me to find anything that I feel
like great in at the moment. But I wouldn't need like
uninterrupted time to look because there's no way that I'll
just happen to cross something that's perfect.
No, I get what you mean. Fine equates to not great.
Yeah. It covers my body and it matches

(06:23):
the color scheme. That's pretty much what it is.
I mean, for any event, but especially for family photos,
you want to be excited about what you're putting on.
So I get where you're coming from.
I would feel the exact same way.So maybe you maybe you do take
time in the morning. Maybe you figure out what place
like the first place that you can go that you can leave like
early, early and then just have like a cut off time because what

(06:46):
if I mean going thinking I'm notgoing to find anything, but what
if you find something that you're so excited about?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've always go somewhere
close by, like I don't have to go to the mall and I could go
early when they open. So yeah, I'll hang on to that.
Maybe I'll do that. I want to like it.
Of course you do. Yeah, of course you do.

(07:06):
So. All right, maybe trying to think
if I have any other big updates for you.
On Tuesday, Penny had her nine month doctor's appointment and
let me run you through the updates.
She got a little toe poke to check her iron levels and her
iron levels are good. So her dark under eyes are not
from iron, which is what I was worried about.

(07:26):
Yep. Yeah, that's comforting for you,
I bet. Yeah, so it's either hereditary,
poor Penny, because I have superdark under eyes so.
And no clear that work like you said.
No, no, layers of concealer is the only thing that works, and
it works for about 15 minutes and then one doesn't.
Or she has allergies. OK, so we'll see.

(07:47):
Her belly button is just a teenytiny bit herniated.
OK. So like when she's flexing or
something, it like pokes out a little bit.
And I asked the doctor, like, that looks a little herniated to
me. And she was like, yeah, as long
as it's soft to the touch, like a lot of babies get that.
How come? How do you know what a herniated

(08:07):
belly button looks like? I.
Mean it's just like pops. Out.
I've known I watch Grey's Anatomy.
OK, laugh all you want, but the only phrases that I've heard in
relation to Bolly buttons are innies or outies.
So you say herniated. Herniated because Brooke sticks
out. I just I've just been calling it
an outie. I mean, it doesn't stick out all
the time. After she eats particularly.

(08:33):
So what? Useful.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know, Penny's is
an any, but then when she like flexes, it'll just poke out just
a little bit. It's not like it's an Audi, it
just is a little bump. Let me just say that I have
learned since my children's diagnosis that Google and I am.

(08:53):
Of course, everyone says it's not like WebMD or whatever, but
what gives you the worst of the worst when you initially Google
until you refine your search? And let me tell you, the
pictures I'm seeing right now are terrible.
Uncomfortable. Yeah.
I don't like it. Yeah, no, it's very minor.
Taylor didn't notice. Nobody noticed except for me.
It's just because I change her six times a day.

(09:15):
So I noticed that it's differentthan it usually is.
I let them know that she's not crawling yet.
She got her vaccine. She did so good.
I was so proud. So when they nicked her toe for
the iron levels, she literally didn't didn't even acknowledge
that they did that. And they're like, oh, look at
you, girlfriend. And she's just so much more
aware than she's been at her other appointments.

(09:35):
So I really expected her to loseit.
And she responded the same way that she always does for
vaccines, where she's perfectly fine.
And then she silent cries and then she has one big yeah wail
and then I pick her up and she'sfine.
So she did really good. I was very proud of her.
Good. I told them that I was really

(09:57):
having to work hard to get her to drink the minimum amount of
Oz that were OK for her and theysaid she's gained a bunch of
weight and the doctor is so happy with how she's grown that
we no longer have to worry aboutit.
We can just feed her what I makeand I don't have to supplement.
That's so nice. Do you feel good about that?
Yeah. OK.

(10:17):
Great. I yes, Penny was born so small
that Live said before, we were just so conscious of how much
she was eating all the time and making sure she got every oz her
little baby body could take. And they finally said that she's
high enough on the growth curve that it's not scary anymore
because until she was four months old, she wasn't even on

(10:38):
the growth curve. She was less than the first
percentile for four months. Wow.
Yeah. So now she's the 34th percentile
and they're very happy. Girl OK.
She's a baby. She's 17 1/2 lbs at nine months
old. Little little girl.
Yeah, she's a baby, but so that made me feel really good.
OK, So her doctor's appointment went real good, OK.

(10:59):
Good, glad to hear that. When's your next one?
I don't remember the cadence of that age. 12 months.
OK, a little bit of a break. Nice.
Yep, Yep. Yeah, I'm excited about.
I mean, I love going to the doctor.
They always made me feel like such a good mom.
Yeah, I know. Same here.
Same here. Did you ask about teeth?
You were. Concerned about that, yes, she

(11:19):
said I don't need to start brushing them like intentionally
until she's like a year old. I can if I if she lets me, which
I just let her suck on a toothbrush pretty much.
And then I don't have to worry about the dentist till she's two
or three. Like she can sit well for a
dentist. That is far different than what

(11:39):
I've heard from two other pediatricians and I'm just
wondering where the hell they'regetting their information and
why there's such a discrepancy. Because my first one said
something different in Oregon, my current one saying something
different here in Michigan. Yours other side of Michigan
something different as well. Regardless, I mean, listen to
your pediatrician. That's good for you.

(12:00):
One less thing you have to worryabout.
Yeah. Wouldn't you think that
everybody should have the same recommendations that make?
Me feel better, that's what I'm saying.
I don't know if there's can we just create like a Google doc
and we can just master? It that's what I don't like,
Something as small as when should I start brushing my kids
teeth is different. I understand that doctors have
different recommendations for different things, but you'd

(12:23):
think that it'd be standard and I wish it was because what do I
trust? The pediatrician on that side of
town or the pediatrician on thatside of town?
Or TikTok. I know, I know.
Oh yeah. I got it.
Yeah, whatever. What has your week been like?
I've had a string of bad luck. Bad luck, Megan.
Yeah, I am. Dare I say it, I'm not an

(12:45):
astrology person. I just need to be that
disclaimer. I'm about to turn to it.
I want to know where my house inwhatever to go through the list.
So I'm driving to see you on Thursday.
No Gemini like you. You have both Geminis.
We're both Geminis, yes. OK.
I think that I would be more into astrology potentially if.
I wasn't a Gemini. We had the.

(13:07):
Worst astrological site. Everyone hates us.
I know when I read the description I would hate it too.
And I like whenever somebody asks me what I am, I'm like, I'm
a Gemini, but I'm not really because I'm like, not at all how
they describe a Gemini, I don't think.
And to my, to my degree of awareness, I'm not.

(13:27):
I don't know. Yeah, maybe I am.
Jeez. We'll clip this and then all the
people who are in astrology you can tell us anyways coming to
see you, which we'll talk about later.
But little pea sized Pebble cameand hit my window, my windshield
on my not even a year old car and cracked the windshield.
That sucked. And then, you know, we've been
in a heat wave here in Michigan for the last.

(13:50):
However, the. Worst.
And so, yeah, I tell you, it's like 4 inches in size.
And then I get in my car after we go to lunch and I'm like,
that's doubled. That's unfortunate.
And at this point, it has since gotten far bigger.
It's getting fixed on Saturday. But anyways, that was one thing
that happened. My dishwasher started to give us

(14:10):
trouble. It was just like, fine,
whatever. But like all these things
combined suck. And then my debit card was
compromised. And when I went in today to get
my new debit card, there were, Ikid you not, four other people
in there going in because they had fraudulent charges on their
account. So something happened.
I don't know, but it's just beena week like.
Sounds like. Annoying.

(14:31):
And then I mentioned that a few weeks ago, Brooke had just for
no apparent reason, toppled off the toilet.
And it was strange yesterday. I don't know what the heck was
going on, but we have one of those like, like kid stepping
stool things where they can likebe at the island or like close
to the counter or whatever. And she used that since she was

(14:53):
a year old. And then, yeah, recently she's
not interested. She wants to sit on our stools,
so she just falls off the stool.Yesterday, you know, that that
was terrible. And then I'm in here editing a
clip and she's in here with me and on my left side here we have
a canvas that has a world map onit and I'm watching her.

(15:15):
My eyes are found her and I watch her come up below it and
just like 2 fingers like push itup and it falls.
And it comes right. Smack dab in between her eyes
and huge red. Well, I'm like, OK, this sucks.
And then I almost don't want to say what happened to her last
because it was horrific, but OK,I'll say it.
So she. Yeah, you didn't tell me this

(15:36):
third one. It was traumatic for I think all
of us recently. The booster seats suspend a
burden. So I pulled the booster seat off
and now she's just sitting on a chair like the rest of us.
For those who aren't familiar with me personally or my
husband, my husband's sick sick,so we also have very tall
children. It works fine for her.
Yes, you do. But she gets down from the

(15:58):
dining room table at dinner lastnight and then and eventually
she goes back to her seat and she's attempting to twist the
chair. And instead she pulls the chair
down on top of her. And of course she does not have
the strength to get it up, so run over.
So I pull it off her and she's crying.
She has blood, tears coming downher cheek.
He's terrible her eye or there'sa.

(16:19):
Cut on the outside. There's a cut right below it and
she's a super healer though I sent you the photo.
It looked rough last night. It progressively got worse and
more swollen, but then this morning it's like it's puffy but
like she just has the cut here and the cut up here.
Oh, she does look so sad. It was rough.
She's still crying, by the way. She's been screaming since well
before. But we started this and yeah,

(16:41):
it's. Still harder.
Yeah, she's usually the kid thatwe put her down, we walk out of
the room, we don't hear from heruntil the next morning at like
8:00 AM. The last like 2 weeks or so it's
been kind of awful and. Slow something.
Yeah, I slept on the beanbag chair in the basement because I
was going into her room so oftenthat.

(17:03):
All night. All night long.
And it was like, it was ridiculous stuff.
Like I bring her to the bathroomand then I'd put her back in a
room and she the second I would leave, she would just start
shrieking. Like sit potty.
Oh jeez. Yeah, it's been rough.
It's been really rough. Anyway, she's giving that to
Colton right now. And then we've done a lot of
stuff. Reset Robot Coder Camp.

(17:26):
So we went, yeah, there's a whole bunch of camps that she
got to choose from. We said, OK, you can choose
three, there was like 9 or something.
And she chose marine biology, robot coder and entrepreneur and
entrepreneurs like create a lemonade stand.
That is so freaking cute. It's cool, yeah.
And then we went to to the library yesterday and we did a

(17:49):
tie dye activity. Reese's best friend, her mom
texted me and was like, are you guys going?
And I was like, if you guys are,we are.
So we went and did the tie dyeing thing.
And I think I've shared this before, but Reese's best friend
is like 1/2 a year older than her.
And then she has a younger sister who is half a year older

(18:09):
than Brooke. So they're all in the same age
range and they all get along so well.
When we were leaving, I got a photo of them.
They're walking, all four of them, and holding hands
together. Cute.
They get along so well and. So cute.
They have no activities in common now, like it's just us
keeping things going because of how sincerely they all click.

(18:32):
So yeah, I hope I can keep it going.
It's great. Does Brooke and the younger
sister get along? I mean, as well as 2 year olds
plus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're very sweet to one another.
They will play next to one another.
They hug when they see each other.
And when I say we're gonna go see blank and blank Brooke over

(18:53):
the moon about seeing little sister.
So yes. But you know, yeah, yeah.
Limited. That is so.
Cute. It's really, it's really sweet,
I. Can't wait for that stage like
the friend stage that's so. Me, my only other updates is
fall planning. We made the decision to extend
Reese's Co-op so she's going to be doing two days a week in the

(19:13):
fall and on a wait list for a hybrid program.
It's not per I don't know I evenknow how to describe it, but
it's through a local district and if she does that and then
she gets state funding to do allthese different extracurricular.
So I'm hoping to get into that. She could take a cooking class
if she's interested in that, or photography, or robot coding, or

(19:36):
horseback riding, or. OK.
Whatever she wants. And you just apply for it
through the school. Yeah.
So if you want to get into the full time program, they dictate
what curriculum you use for the core subjects and then your
child is effectively deemed a public school child, which is
fine. And they go through state

(19:57):
testing and all that. And I'm not opposed to that.
I like the curriculum that they use a lot.
But part time side is what everybody and their second
cousin is interested in. So there's a multi year long
wait list for it, but we got an e-mail it so that we might find
out if she gets accepted then. Of next month so that's
exciting. Yeah.
Cool, cool yeah. So our falls shaping up.

(20:19):
OK, we are going to get into mentally strong moms make
mentally strong kids because we believe the more we take care of
ourselves, the better we can take care of our kids.
A few weeks ago, Megan and I decided that since we had
started the podcast, we probablyhad done it for like a month by
then. We were really talking about how
much we put into it and how muchprep there is.

(20:42):
So we decided that instead of feeling like we're constantly
behind what we were going to do,these monthly meetings where we
hang out for the day and we talkpodcast pretty much all day
with, of course, lots of sidebars because you know us.
But yeah, we did that on Sunday and it was so fun.
We've been looking forward to itfor a few weeks.
And I mean, I think it lived up to the hype.

(21:02):
Yeah. That was really.
Helpful. I agree.
And it was, yeah, it was very fun and very needed.
And you're always so. And I know that it works out
well because of pennies, nap schedules and whatnot, but
you're always so willing to travel.
Well, we for those who don't know, we live 2 hours apart
almost like on the dot. And so you're always so willing
to come out this way and you always have been that way.

(21:22):
Even before penny piece of me was like, no, it's 100% my turn
to return the favor. And then the other selfish piece
was like, I love the idea of having 2-4 hours in the car
without anybody asking for a snack, potty excavator song or
yeah, to go to the bathroom. So I jumped on the opportunity

(21:43):
to come out your way and yeah, it was great.
It was a really, really nice day.
I look forward to like, keeping the meetings going because,
yeah, I feel like you and I bothget to talk through things and
like, have a weight off of our shoulders and it feels like time
for us, for super. Yeah, Yeah.
We can actually talk about the things that we don't have time
to talk about when we do this. And we planned all of our topics

(22:08):
in advance, which was really nice.
Planned a couple of fun things to do on social media.
Yeah, I just felt like I have a way better grasp on things now
that we did that. And we can work in advance too,
which is nice. Like there's, for those who
don't know, like there's one dayin between when we record and
when we post an episode. So episodes go live on Wednesday

(22:32):
and then we record on Thursdays.And sometimes it feels like
we're just turning to the next episode when the previous
episodes up so we can work in advance to to get ahead of that.
Yeah so on our Sunday meeting wemet at a coffee shop and we had
coffee and talked podcast for like 3 hours before we went to

(22:54):
lunch. Yeah, the whole time I was very
hyper aware I was around us because I was like, I can't
imagine going to a coffee shop and listening to the people next
to us talking about their podcast that would that would
send me into AI. Need to find a hobby for myself,
sort of hyper fixation. See, it would have sent me into
like, listening so intently to see if I could catch the name of

(23:19):
the podcast and then listening to it because I need to know
what they were talking about. And we were putting a lot of
effort into this conversation. So they had to have been like,
if they're putting this much effort and it's got to be good,
right? If we did have things in the
name, they go to our Instagram. We're like.
Just kidding, that's a cute hobby.

(23:42):
I do have a. Question for you, Yeah.
Do you think that there's shift societally or even with our
generation on nurturing young kids friendships?
Because when I was younger, I was always playing with friends
and kids and riding bikes and climbing trees and hanging out
until dark and walking over to afriend's house and knocking on

(24:06):
their door to see if they were available.
Like there was no my mom's calling their mom to see if
they're available. Like I was walking over and
knocking on the door. And as Colton and I consider, I
haven't said this to like hardlyanyone in my life.
So but here's some news. As Colton and I consider moving

(24:27):
potentially, and I'm like romanticizing the idea of living
in a community. I just really want that for my
children. I want them to like have a bunch
of friendships that are very valuable to them at a young age
and I feel like nervous that I'mromanticizing something that

(24:47):
like doesn't exist nowadays. I I don't think that you're
wrong for hoping that that's what happened.
I do think there are kids that have excellent friendships
outside of school. You know, I think the big
difference between when we were kids, we would just go next door
and knock on the kids door and now is cell phones like back

(25:09):
then. Yeah, I you can call their home,
but like, if you're already outside, you just kind of go
over there. I think now people are so
conscious of not wanting to interrupt, not wanting to
impose. And I think that comes from cell
phones. It's so easy to shoot a text and
like, we'll check. Like, I think that's the big
difference between when we were kids and what's going on now.

(25:31):
But I do agree, I think that young friendships are super
important. I think having friends build
confidence. I think having friends build
social maturity and allows for kids to interact with other
family dynamics too. Like seeing how other kids are
and how they are with their families is very different and

(25:53):
or similar to how you are with yours.
And I think that's really beneficial to like their
worldview, you know? Yeah.
So I don't think you're only two.
I like off base by hoping for this.
I do think that you're probably not going to have.
It's not going to be like Reese is going to go over to the
neighbors and knock on the door.I do think that, like, you'll
text to ask if they're available.

(26:13):
But I think that's a societal norm now, yeah.
Well, I would follow. Yes, I would.
If there's not a precedent set by other groups, I would do that
because I would be very concerned about being
considerate. If I move to an area and those
parents are more flexible, I will without hesitation follow.
I loved that about my childhood but now it just feels like

(26:34):
everything so rigid and things changed.
Like people are so concerned about sleepovers and how do.
You feel about sleepovers? Oh, let's talk about that.
OK, I would love to. Yeah, me too.
So do I believe that there are risks with sleepovers?
Yes. In the early years especially, I
feel more prone to having a blanketed approach because I

(26:58):
don't want to have to explain tomy young child why I would allow
it in certain instances and not allow it in others if it's not
age appropriate information. And I personally don't know how
else to navigate that. I don't know what the right
answer is. When I listen to people say that
they are against sleepovers, I'mlike, yeah, I get that.
When I hear people say that theyare for it.

(27:20):
Like I just listened to two parents and a podcast and they
were talking about sleepovers and they were like, it's, it's
situational. They said some of their best
memories from a childhood came from that.
And so like, yeah, same. Would I feel comfortable sending
my child to a group sleepover with somebody that I was only
acquainted with? No, if it was like somebody that
we've known for a long, long time, like, like, like if Brooke

(27:43):
and Penny hit it off. Yeah.
And Penny is going to come over here and you and Taylor are
going to go do something like something like that or like vice
person or whatever. I don't know, without
hesitation, right? It's circumstantial.
How do I explain that to my children?
I don't know. Yeah, I definitely.
Yeah, I agree. Like at a certain age it has to
be all or nothing. I get that.
There was no families when I wasa kid who were anti sleepover.

(28:06):
No, it's new, but I think it's. It's valid.
It's hard, it's very valid. I have heard several people make
the argument which I really agree with.
You might completely trust the parents, but what if the parents
have friends over when your child is over there like that I
would be uneasy with. Yeah, it's not even just adults

(28:28):
that I'd have concerns about. I'd have concerns about a
sibling or you know what I mean?Like.
Yeah. You never know when you're when
you're allowing your children togo there, especially pre phone
because people don't have landlines anymore.
They can't call you if they're feeling unsafe.

(28:48):
Right. Like that's what worries me.
Right. I guess as we talked about this,
my opinion is that it is circumstantial.
In the younger years widely, no,but there are outliers.
There are certain people said I might bend the rule for.
I just don't know how I would navigate that conversation with
a young child. Yeah, that's similar to how I

(29:10):
feel. I I mean, I think all the way
around, it depends on the people.
Like I couldn't see myself allowing my upper elementary
aged kids to go to a friend's house.
If I'm, if I've met the parents once or twice, I have to have
some kind of relationship with the parents.
Prior to having Penny, I thoughtit was ridiculous that people

(29:31):
wouldn't do sleepovers. I was like, how do you not do
sleepovers? They're the best thing.
Going home with your friend on aFriday after school.
Oh my gosh. Waking up on Saturday and like,
hanging out, that was the best. So the idea of not doing them
was ridiculous. And now that I'm a mom, my gosh,
that is terrifying. Terrifying.

(29:55):
Similar. I feel similarly I.
Hope that I change my mind when it comes to like middle school
because I want her to have thoseexperiences.
I want her to so badly but it's terrifying.
Like I hope that she's AI want to bring them to my house kind
of person. I told Taylor I was so badly
want to be the house that the kids come to.

(30:17):
I want her to feel comfy bringing all of her friends
over. I want them to have fun things
to do at our house. I want them to have their own
space so that they want to come over and want to bring people
over. But that way, I don't know.
I just know that it's safe and that might come across as a
little helicoptery and I don't care.
Like I don't care. It would make me feel better to

(30:40):
know that everything's going good and nobody's going to get
hurt. I mean, if it comes off
helicoptery to somebody, then then you're just judgmental
because to me, I take that as you want Penny to have the
experiences that we're talking about and you want to be able to
be the one who was managing or like.

(31:00):
Overseeing. Overseeing safety.
I also make a bomb ass chocolatechip cookie so.
That's that's what I went to around the bathroom on cookie
cookies because reason I made cookies today.
That is so funny. So we are going to get into our
episode topic now today. We thought it would be
interesting if Megan picked my brain about different questions

(31:22):
and topics that moms of young kids might have about raising
mentally healthy kids. Yeah.
OK. So I have a series of questions
that I think will be valuable. Before I go into that, will you
just run everybody through what your credentials and background
stuff like that because they could have new?
Listeners Yeah, Yeah, that's a good idea.
OK, so I went to undergrad and got a double major in

(31:47):
neuroscience and psychology and decided to do more of a
psychology route. So I got my masters in clinical
behavioral psychology while I did my internship in 2019.
And then I started working at the same company in 2020.
So from 2020 to 2024, I worked full time as a child

(32:07):
psychologist, specializing in Larry's forms of anxiety.
Of course I saw depression and ADHD and OCD and selective
mutism and other things too. But from 2021 to 2024, I saw
mostly anxiety based school refusal.
So those kids that got very anxious to go to school, which

(32:31):
hindered their attendance. So that was my main focus.
Other than that, I specialized in parent training as well.
So I did a lot of parent work onvarious forms of child mental
illness. So if there was a child that was
struggling with something and they didn't want to come to
therapy, I would see the parents.
Or sometimes mental illness can be pretty severe.

(32:53):
And so I would see the child andthen I'd see the parents at a
different time. So lots of parent work.
Yeah. It was one of my favorite
things. I love seeing parents.
Really. Yeah, you get it.
Is it fair to say that you get like more broad picture when you
work with the parents because the kids?
I don't think I would say broad picture.
I think I just see say I'd see it from both sides like the

(33:17):
children and when I say children, like I saw a lot of
adolescence. So it's young kids all the way
up until 18, but I'd see it veryemotionally charged from the
kids. Like they would tell me what's
going on, but with all the emotion behind it.
And the parents were a lot more matter of fact.
They would be very good at telling me like what the

(33:38):
behaviors actually looked like when they were happening, what
elicited them, what made them stop.
Whereas I got a lot of the emotional descriptions from the
kids. So it just gave me a
well-rounded idea. OK, interesting.
Comes to young, young kids, yeah, the parents are needed.
They're not just it's helpful, they're needed because young
kids can't really tell you. That's so interesting.

(33:58):
I did not know that that was, I mean, it makes sense, don't you
say it, But I didn't know that that was an option, that you're
a child could go and see you andthen the parents could as well.
I mean for kids under 6 I would just see the parents anyway.
Oh really? I didn't see kids.
I mean I had a couple kids that were under 6 but it would be for
very specific diagnosis, like not for everything.

(34:20):
And for ADHD specifically it'd be parent only.
I mean, I feel like that's such a good thing to highlight
because truly, if we were experiencing something in our
family, I would think that I need to go find my own therapist
and that a therapist like you would exclusively be for
adolescents. So that's like, that's got to be
really helpful for people. I've already learned something.

(34:41):
So I loved seeing parents that would help with the progress
because the parents were more able to do the goals, you know?
OK, yeah. Or help the child do the goals.
Right. Of course.
OK, that's so cool. Yeah, this is not an A question
that I had written down you Penny and stopped working last

(35:02):
year. At that point, how long was your
wait list? So there was the general wait
list and then if someone called and said hey, I want to see
Molly Marsh, then I'd have a private wait list.
The general wait list was probably like 9 to 12 months,
which is very hard and frustrating.
I would say my private wait list, because of the nature of
the disorder that I treated, which was school refusal, it's

(35:24):
so acute. The longer they go without
treatment, the more school days they miss, the more behind they
are. I tried really hard to get
people in. I also ran the school refusal
department and so I could like push them out to interns and
stuff. I had some interns that worked
with me too. I see.
OK. Yeah.
So my wait list for myself probably wasn't more than like a

(35:46):
month. OK for general is like 9 to 12
months and I think it's very similar through all of the
clinics around my area. Yeah, I mean, just since
becoming a parent and talking topeople who are looking for
treatment for their children, I don't think I've heard anything
that is too far away from what you just said, which I can't.

(36:08):
I can only imagine the difficulties of that presents
for you as a professional and asa parent.
I can only imagine how stressfuland heartbreaking it would be
knowing that you've observed something that needs treatment
in your child and you are seeking that and then you are,
you know, put on a wait list such as that.
That would be so incredibly overwhelming.

(36:29):
What we did at our clinic was after COVID, we realized that
the wait list was just getting longer and out of control.
And so we started doing these intakes right away where you
call and within a couple weeks you get in for an intake.
There was a handful of us withinthe company that did the
intakes, but we would end the session with like a big list of

(36:52):
recommendations, so different things that they could do in the
meantime while they waited. That way.
It doesn't feel so like, thanks for telling me all the horrible
things that are going on. We'll see you next year, right?
Yeah. So a little bit better after
that. Yeah, sure.
And we also developed a lot of programs that was like group
therapy so that we could get a lot of people in at the same
time, and that helped a lot too.OK.

(37:15):
Yeah. OK.
That's, I mean fantastic here that you guys are looking for
like different interim solutionsso that you can help accommodate
this big wait list and get people to help us sooner rather
than later. Yeah, it was so crazy problem
for a while. And like, we would have so many
meetings about how to shorten the wait list because it was
just like, heartbreaking to knowthat there were so many people

(37:36):
waiting. Yeah, right.
OK. Well, that's super helpful.
I bet that's super helpful to get a background and to get an
understanding of what your work environment is like.
So I have a few questions. I will dive into the first one.
You and I have talked about this, but I do assume that all
these are going to pull us into a few different directions
because some of these are a little broad.

(37:56):
I wrote these questions with thethought of what I think a lot of
parents with younger children are gonna wanna know, whether
that be personal conversations that I've had or things that
I've reoccurring topics that I've seen on social media
because my algorithm is saturated with parenting stuff.
So yeah, that's where I came up with these questions.

(38:18):
So the first question that I have is what practices can
parents implement to help build true self-confidence, not just
praise based validation in youngchildren?
Your thoughts on that? So before I get into it, I'm
just going to blanket say one time, I won't say it all the
time, that what Megan and I talkabout today is in no way therapy

(38:39):
or specific advice. If you have a concern, bring it
to your pediatrician and look for recommendations that way.
This is just conversation. OK, so how to build confidence
that isn't solely praise based? I think that it's really
important to set appropriate expectations that a child can

(39:01):
meet, allow them to fail, allow them to pick themselves back up
and try again and succeed. That builds confidence because
it shows that they can overcome something different.
Cult. An analogy that I would use all
the time is you would not take your five year old out into the
yard and say, let's throw a football.
You're not going to go across the yard and say throw it to me
and then expect them to get it to you across the yard.

(39:24):
Of course not. You're going to stand a couple
feet from them and have them throw it to you, and over time
you're going to back up and allow them to strengthen their
skills and not you're not going to expect them to get it right
to your chest in a perfect spiral every single time.
They're going to mess up every once in a while and that's fine.
You just try again and the repetition is what would build

(39:45):
that confidence. So I think it's important to
find the correct opportunities. Something that balances their
interest, but it's also a challenge.
Enough to spark that drive, but it's not too much of a challenge
where they get worked out right away.
Yeah, it makes total sense. What is your suggestion to
parents about what that languagelooks like?

(40:06):
You ends up in your analogy and you stand closer and then as
they get more confident with their skills, you back up, you
back up, you back up. But like as the parent, how are
you encouraging that? How would you recommend to
parents to encourage that process as opposed to just you
got it, but. I think that you follow their
lead. You don't want to be the parent

(40:27):
that pressures them because thenthey're doing it for you.
They're not doing it for them. Even if they're really good at
it, if you're forcing them to doit, it, it's not for them and it
doesn't build confidence the wayyou want it to.
So I don't think you shy away from praise, but I think it has
to be genuine. I think that kids can pick up
when you say great job. That was incredible after every

(40:48):
single attempt, right? Like I think that when you
praise, it needs to be warranted.
But I do think praise moves mountains.
Like you can tell the kids that are praised regularly and the
kids that have never heard that kind of thing.
So I do think it's really important to praise your kids,
but I think it's equally as important for it to be a genuine
praise. And when it comes to picking the

(41:10):
opportunities that help build confidence, I think you have to
listen to your kid and give themoptions.
So don't pick an activity simplybecause it's what everybody else
does or it's because it's what you want your kid to do.
Give them options, allow them totry various things, whatever
they seem the most excited about, try a few more times.
I do think it's important to give kids a lot of opportunity

(41:32):
to try things before you have them.
Like fully commit to stuff because of course we want to
teach our kids. Like you don't quit, but you I
also don't want to teach them they have to stick something out
that they genuinely don't like. Not just because it's hard, but
like even if it's not hard for them, they just really don't
like it. You don't want them to have to
be forced to engage in it for weeks on end.

(41:53):
OK. So what I'm hearing from you is
to help them build self-confidence.
That is like a true self-confidence.
What you recommend is finding something that is a good fit for
their interests and their capabilities given their age and
experience, whatever, and to letthem go through the process and
whatever that looks like. If they do it the first time and

(42:16):
you know they take off, great. Or if that means that they are
failing but you let them go through that process and you are
there to support and praise is not bad thing, but if it's
coming from a sincere place, it is helping to push them in the
right direction. Do I have that right?
Yeah, I do think praise is important.

(42:36):
I would never tell somebody to not praise their kid.
I think that's very great to help with the relationship
between parent and child. I do think that confidence also
comes from when other people praise.
Like just imagine you're playinga sport and your coach tells you
how great you're doing. That is 10 times better than
when your parent tells you how great you're doing.

(42:57):
Sure, having a kid overcome something hard is one of the key
factors. So something that they're
nervous about or they're scared about or they haven't done from
the past, all of those things are key factors in building
confidence. OK, got it.
There's a lot of a conversation on TikTok specifically that I've
seen that talks about not praising your kids.

(43:18):
But the example they always use is don't say never say good job,
don't say good job. And I can see potentially why
they would make that argument. And I feel like explaining what
you're seeing in your praise, it's probably more beneficial.
Is that correct? I was yes.
I do think the best form of praise is labeled praise, which

(43:39):
is, yes, you state what you're praising instead of your child
puts their dishes in the sink. Instead of saying good job, you
can say thank you so much for putting your dishes in the sink.
That was super helpful. That's a way better way because
it's not just this blanket statement, it's showing that
you're paying attention to what they're doing and what's good
about it. Yeah, It also doesn't leave it

(44:01):
into their interpretation of what you're praising, because if
you say good job to them, they could take that as, oh, you're
saying good job about the time frame in which I decided to do
this or about how I executed it or about my language around what
I was doing. Like they have no idea.
But if you're specific about it,it helps, helps them grow in the
direction that you're trying to support.

(44:21):
Yeah, I mean, logically that makes total sense to me, but.
Going to work and nobody ever appreciating what you do or how
you do it or saying that you're doing a good job.
Like nobody's ever validating you.
That's not you. You would hate that.
Right, of course. Yeah.
OK, cool. So we'll move on to the next

(44:41):
question then, which is what steps can parents take to help a
child feel less resistant to parental guidance?
And then is there a balance or parenting style that works best
for this approach? I don't want to speak to a
parenting style necessarily because I think it's hard to put
everybody in a shoe box of what parenting style they have.

(45:04):
However. Fair enough.
One thing that I talked with parents about Auton was the
pushback that you get, the powerstruggles that you get in, and
how am I supposed to make my kiddo this thing that they don't
want to do? So I have two thoughts.
One that I always tell people isto allow your child, no matter
what age they are, some level ofautonomy.

(45:24):
So let's say it's bedtime routine and every elementary
aged kid fights bedtime. I would tell parents you want
them to put their pajamas on andyou want them to brush their
teeth. Does it matter which pajamas
they wear? Does it matter where they put
them on? Whether it's the bathroom or the
bedroom or the laundry room, doesn't matter which order they

(45:45):
do it. Brush teeth or then PJ's or
PJ's, then brush teeth, doesn't matter.
Those are all choices that you could give your child to make it
a little bit more their idea. And that's all a child wants.
They want some say in what's going on as opposed to being
told what to do. If it's a matter of I can't get
my kid to stop doing whatever they're doing to get ready for

(46:05):
bed, then I usually will advise them to use a do you want to do
you want to go right now and pick out your pajamas?
Or do you want me to bring your pajamas to you?
And do you want to go pick out your own or do you want me to
bring you a pair? Right.
So there's two options. They still get jammies on, but
they get to choose. So one way to to dial back on

(46:26):
the protesting is to give them some autonomy in the decision
making. However, the big general idea
for this is a very behavioral technique, meaning if you want
someone to do something, you have to reinforce them for it,
right? They have to give them a reason
to want to do it. So usually what we would do is
if depends on how severe the behavior is, right?

(46:48):
But I would come up with some kind of reward system.
And if you're having really, really hard time, you're
increase the frequency of the rewards.
So that means that they would get a reward for putting their
jammies on, they'd get one for putting brushing their teeth,
they'd get one for bath time, that kind of thing.
And these don't have to be tangible rewards for somebody

(47:10):
that's on this schedule where you get something for every
single thing you do. We use like beads in a jar.
And then at the end of the week you go do something fun as your
weekly reward. However, if they just need a
nudge to get started, then you can give them one thing at the
end of their whole routine. So that could be an extra book

(47:31):
at bedtime. That could be an extra song.
Also not a tangible, more like aone-on-one time kind of thing.
But I would say if you're havinga really hard time getting kids
to do something, pair it with a.Reward.
Interesting. Kids are not internally
motivated the way adults are. They have you have to use extra
extrinsic motivation, which means something outside of their

(47:54):
body. So that's what we recommend is
some kind of reward system. OK, you saying that made me
think of this question and we can use the bedtime example.
What's your opinion on rewards versus consequences?
So let's say a child is having adifficult time with getting
through their bedtime routine. Should a parent approach it by

(48:16):
saying, hey, I know we've been having some struggles with our
bedtime routine lately ahead of ahead of the process starting.
I know we found having some struggles lately.
If you are to fill in the blank insert expectation, you will get
an extra book tonight versus youknow what the expectation is you
did not fulfill that there is a consequence, whether it be a

(48:37):
natural consequence or a consequence of a parent is
pulling out like is it situational or do you like
what's the preferred approach always reward.
So I'll let you know the hierarchy of what I would
recommend. It really depends on the
severity of the issue. So my first recommendation is
always to do rewards first. So the language is very rewards

(48:58):
based. We're going to start our bedtime
routine. Don't forget that if we put away
our toys, get jammies on, brush teeth, get in bed, we get a bead
for every step of the process. And for younger kids, probably
like 8 and younger, depending onthe kid, I would make a visual
chart. So a picture of Jimmy's, picture

(49:19):
of toothbrush, right, That kind of thing.
You'd get a bead in the jar for everything and the kid gets to
pick the bead out and put it in the jar.
It's a very like motor based thing.
They get to see how many beads they're accumulating if you put
them to bed and then you go put 4 beads in the jar.
They're so far removed from thatactivity that they don't even
care. OK.

(49:42):
I always start with that. So don't forget that you're
going to get a bead. The language is very upbeat.
It's very like we want to earn the bead.
Let's go. Remember at the end of the week
we get to turn our beads in and we can go to a movie.
We could get ice cream after school, fun things like that.
If they came back to me after a week, 2 weeks and it's working a

(50:04):
little bit. That's still forward progress
and that's good. We want to see it repeat.
If it's not working at all, thenwe can change the situation a
little bit. A couple other things that I do
recommend is if then statements,so you always warn the child
that there's going to be a consequence before you
administer 1. So let's say they bite their

(50:24):
sister, they would need to know there's going to be a
consequence when they bite theirsister before they bite the
sister, right? If it's just a rule in your
house, if you bite, then you geta time out.
If you bite, then you get whatever taken away.
That's all you need. You don't need to make sure you
verbally say it ahead of time. But if you've never administered
A consequence before and then all of a sudden you do it, that

(50:45):
breaks trust and that leaves thechild confused.
So if it's a house rule, that's fine, you don't need to say it
again, but make sure they know what they're getting themselves
into, is how I like to phrase it.
Yeah, I completely understand what you're saying.
And then for somebody that's on more of a structured behavioral
plan, I call it the ABC method, it just made sense in my head

(51:06):
when I started doing this kind of work and it took off.
And that's what I call it. And my clients all know what I'm
talking about when I say that. But let's say you're on more of
a strict behavioral plan where you have specific goals for the
day. And the child knows this, right?
They know that they're supposed to get up and have breakfast.
They know they're supposed to take their laundry to the
laundry room. They're supposed to put their
dishes in the sink. They're supposed to take the

(51:28):
trash out, right? Like do all these things.
Those are plan A. If they complete plan A by the
end of the day, then they get a reward.
And whatever that reward is, whether it's dessert, an extra
book, a show before bed, a lot of older kids, it's like a
certain amount of time of screentime.
So finish plan A, get a reward. And that reward should be fairly
beefy because Plan A is usually hard.

(51:50):
Plan B would be pretty much anything between optimal, so
Plan A and nothing. So let's say that they get up
and they do their laundry, but they don't put their dishes away
and they don't take the trash out.
That would fit under the Plan B category.
They don't get the reward, but they do get praise.

(52:10):
You can thank them for what theydid do.
You can spend extra one-on-one time with them, but they don't
get the thing that they're really working for.
The idea of this is that it still creates motivation to
complete Plan A because they still want that other reward.
But you're not just ignoring thefact that they did do some
stuff, because otherwise they'renot going to do anything if you

(52:31):
don't acknowledge that they tried.
Sure. So then Plan C would be
consequences, which is they did absolutely nothing.
They did not get up on time, they didn't put their laundry
away, they didn't do their dishes, and they didn't take
trash out, and there was no effort made toward doing any of
that. Then you could administer A
consequence, and the consequenceconsequence that I always
recommend is taking something away.

(52:52):
OK, that is super helpful. I bet a lot of people find value
in that because I think a lot ofparents find themselves stuck in
this cycle where they are constantly reminding of what the
process should be and there's some degree of reliance on that.
Like I wonder sometimes if kids wait for the reminder and they

(53:13):
think up until that reminder is delivered, I have all this time
to fill however I see fit. But once they sit and the
parents as a reminder, then they're serious about it.
I wonder if people get stuck in that cycle because they are
constantly administering those reminders for their kids and
their kids are like, you'll tellme when it's important, right?
Let's use that as an example. That's a good one.

(53:34):
So a lot of parents are like, I'm constantly reminding them
and a lot of parents say the bedtime routine goes fine.
It's the fight of getting them to stop doing what they're doing
and get ready for bed. Usually I would say OK, then
plan A would be that they are acknowledging what time of night
it is and they start their bedtime routine, they put their
toys away, they stop doing theirstuff on their own without you

(53:56):
having to tell them. Then they would get a reward,
whatever you guys had already decided.
If you have to remind them, that's Plan B.
So as long as they do it right, but you have to remind them,
that's Plan B where you can praise them.
You can say thank you for getting up when I asked the
first time, but they don't get their reward.
And then if you have to tell them X amount of times, then

(54:18):
that's C. OK.
It's cold. Yeah.
The reward part should be pre disclosed also.
So what I had mentioned earlier is that you don't administer A
consequence unless they know it's coming.
The reward should be known. So when a client would come to
session and we had this thing that we've been working on and I
say what are you working for? They should always be able to

(54:39):
tell me. So if I went to your house and
said, Reese, I hear you're having a hard time getting ready
for bed. If you get yourself ready for
bed without mom having to tell you, what do you get?
She should know. Yeah, that makes sense.
Yeah, because. That way that there's no drive.
Right. No.
Right. Yeah, so after they do the
thing, it shouldn't be this conversation of, well, what do

(54:59):
you want? We have these three options.
They shouldn't be. They already know what they
arguing for. That's where all the motivation
comes from. So it should be amped up with
young kids. I'll start talking about the
reward in the morning, and then they're not even posed with the
opportunity to earn it until later that night, right?
But they're excited about it allday.
Sure. And give some examples again of

(55:20):
what of what those rewards wouldbe extra book potentially a
little bit of screen time maybe,OK.
I would say it really depends onthe kid because I know and kids
love books at bedtime. Some kids are TV kids or if you
have a YouTube kid, an extra video, a board game you guys
could play after the bath beforebed.
You can color a picture before bed.

(55:41):
Of course, for the kids that struggle with sleep, I don't
ever recommend screen based rewards, but coloring a picture
before bed or hot chocolate before bed or something like
that. OK yeah.
So like fun things that you don't do every night Got.
It got it. OK, that is so helpful.
Yeah, there's a couple of thingsthat are important about

(56:03):
rewards, the frequency in which they're given.
So whether you give a lot withina short period of time to kind
of keep the momentum going, and it needs to be given
immediately. So as soon as they complete the
task, it needs to be given. It's not like do your bedtime
routine and you'll get pancakes for breakfast tomorrow morning.
Yeah, it needs to be like you finish brushing your teeth,

(56:24):
you're watching us put the bead in the jar.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, that makes.
Sense. So there's there's a difference.
Because that might not come to mind.
Got it. OK.
Because for adults, you asked meto work extra hours tonight and
you pay me in 2 weeks. Like we can handle that.
Kids cannot handle waiting a long time before they get it.

(56:45):
Right. OK.
So one other question for you, which is how can parents guide
their children to develop emotional awareness?
Common recommendations that I'veheard, I'm sure a lot of other
people have heard, are naming the feelings for them as well as
validating their feelings. Do you agree with that?

(57:05):
And do you have anything or do you have anything to add?
No, I mean this is the first technique that I use with young
kids. I tell parents, validate all
emotions that they name, even ifthey're wrong.
Like don't correct them, just validate that.
However, I've had lots of clients that shy away from
sharing their own feelings. But to get that skill down,

(57:27):
acknowledging a feeling, noticing it, being able to name
it, sometimes we'll use other techniques.
So if I have a kid that's like obsessed with Bluey or obsessed
with, I don't know, Paw Patrol, other kinds of little kid shows,
we'll watch a clip and then I'llask, what do you think Bluey was
feeling? I'll try to have them name

(57:48):
emotions in a third party, and that usually goes pretty well.
OK, Yeah. So we start, I mean, of course
I'd like to start with themselves, but if they're not
able to do that, then we'll do it with a, a third party.
I'll share feelings and I'll sayI dropped my favorite mug this
morning and at first I was really angry and then I got
really sad. I'll talk about my own feelings

(58:11):
and then we can look at stock photos too and make up a fake
story about how they got to that.
So we will practice that way too.
OK, can you explain what the process of validating a feeling
is? What if the situation is the
behavior that a parent is struggling with and the child is
naming their feelings? What if they're saying, well, I

(58:33):
didn't, I didn't meet that expectation because I was
feeling blank, OK. So if they're using an emotion
as an excuse for not doing whatever they're supposed to be
doing, I would meet that with, I'm really sorry that you're
feeling that way. But that doesn't mean we don't
do what we have to do what we have to do.

(58:54):
So then we talk about like, it'sOK to have your feelings and
still do certain things. Having your feelings is 100%
always OK, but the way you behave is not.
So usually what I would say is it is 100% OK to be angry.
You can always be angry. Angry is good, hitting is not.

(59:14):
This is something else you can do with your body when you're
angry, that kind of thing. Another thing, if your child is
having their feelings loudly, you have to let them calm down
before you redirect. So you have to say, OK, it seems
like you're really upset, let's take a moment, calm down, and
then we'll talk about it. So whether that's setting them
to their room, having them do a quiet activity, redirecting

(59:38):
their attention to doing something else, then when
they're calm, then we can say it's OK to have your feelings,
but let's talk them through whenyou're feeling better.
So I would say when when you do redirect, it's really important
to make sure that they're regulated again, cuz if they're
dysregulated while you're tryingto have a teaching moment, it's
going over their head. They don't care.
Sure. OK.

(59:59):
I like the examples that you gave of you can go to your room
to quiet down or you can do quiet activity because.
I'm sure there are a wide range of cases, 3 specifically if I
were to say go to your room and that would send her like the
isolation of it does not work for her.
So the alternative idea I'm sureis going to be helpful for a lot
of people. Yeah, with the kids that throw

(01:00:19):
fits for attention, my best recommendation is to ignore.
If they're in the same room and they're throwing their fit over
in the corner and you're with your other child playing a game,
doing a craft, you're just engaging with that other child,
letting that one have their moment.
And the other kid that you're engaging with is going to be
very distracted. They're going to be like, what
the heck is that kid doing? But I think that it's important

(01:00:40):
to like engage with that. They wouldn't be like, it's OK,
you and I are still playing. They'll feel better soon.
Engage them so that they're not providing attention to this
child that's throwing their fit.Yeah, sure, right.
Good lesson for kid #2 as well. When someone's having big
emotions, that's theirs to own, and you do not need to get
wrapped up in that. You you can focus on yourself.

(01:01:02):
Yeah. The other thing going on because
things that I keep remembering but I love it, never say don't
like, don't cry. Why are you crying?
Stop crying. Crying is OK.
Crying is an expression of an emotion, especially for kids.
You don't want them to learn that crying is embarrassing or
crying is wrong or it's bad by any means.

(01:01:24):
It's OK to criticize, of course,like hitting, yelling, saying
mean things. But it's OK that kids cry.
Makes some sense. Yeah, good.
I'm glad. When it comes to the emotion
conversation, my question to youis, does this advice, is it
gender specific or could it go, it goes across the board, right?

(01:01:45):
Like would you approach a cat? I think people need to hear that
because they know that there's alot of at least in adults, adult
males, there's a lot of emotion suppression that is happening in
our generation. And I think that parents, from
what I've seen, are becoming more mindful to that and looking
at ways that they can help theiryoung boy become more

(01:02:06):
emotionally aware of themselves.And so just wanted to call that
out because I knew that you weresaying it for both.
I do think that teaching them emotion identification early is
really important. And I think a lot of social and
emotional curriculums in schoolsare newer in the last 20 years,
right? I don't remember having any of
that when we went to school. So I do think that they're kind

(01:02:29):
of trying to catch on. A lot of school districts are
not great at it, or it's like 5 minutes once a week.
It's not built into the curriculums.
So I do think that paying attention at home on naming your
feelings in front of your kids, expressing that feelings are OK,
asking kids of all ages how they're feeling and having them

(01:02:49):
describe it to you only makes them in a more emotionally
intelligent adult. And I do think it's really
important for especially young men to learn how to talk about
their feelings. That way they're not as physical
about their feelings. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, yeah, for so many reasons.
One, it's because it helps you to understand yourself and
problem solve and to create deepand meaningful relationships.

(01:03:13):
So there's so much value to whatwe're talking.
About All right, what other things do you have for?
Me, No. I can't think of anything else
to cover. Is there anything else that you
feel like we didn't talk about that you want to like?
So you want to go over get anything that you saw commonly
that you're like I know widely this is an area of concern?
Okay, one general principle thatI would come back to it is the

(01:03:36):
job of the parent is to be a mixture of comforting,
supportive and firm and the facilitator.
So with an anxious child, they're scared to give me
something a kid scared of. Going into the basement to.
OK, OK, that's a good one. A lot of kids are scared of the

(01:03:57):
dark. So let's use the example of
going into the basement. They're scared.
It's really important to validate their feelings.
So they're saying, I don't want to go, I'm scared, it's dark,
can you go with me? And it's really important to
say, I know you're scared. You're so brave and so strong.
I'm going to stand right here atthe top of the stairs.
I'm so sure that you can do it and then have them do it right.

(01:04:20):
So it's really important not to cave.
It's also really important to validate their feelings.
They're not ridiculous for beingscared.
So never say you shouldn't feel that way or there's no need to
be scared. You can say it's OK to be
scared. I know you're scared, but I also
know you're brave. And then have them do it anyway.
That's how you build confidence full circle.

(01:04:41):
Yeah, sure. And this is definitely a started
early process, right? Like got to be way harder if you
are becoming aware of the need for this and starting at an
older age. Because I know in my case,
Reese, for example, if we're going through something like
that and there's resistance and she eventually does decide, OK,

(01:05:02):
I'm going to go attempt this thing that's being asked and she
achieves it. She's over the moon, proud of
herself. The confidence that she gets
from pushing through is wonderful, and I'm sure you
know, there's probably not that much excitement to be gained
with an older age group, but at a young age, I feel like it's
serves multiple purposes. Get a job.

(01:05:23):
I would. Confidence Builder.
Say that I think that kids that are older have struggled with
things for so long that when they're finally able to make
forward progress on whatever that is, there's quite a bit of
like relief. I wouldn't say it looks the
same, of course. It's not like jumping up and
down. I'm so proud of myself, but it
is acknowledging that they're working really hard and getting

(01:05:46):
something out of it. So I do think it's pretty
exciting for them too. But I would say if you're
starting this process when the child is older, it's really
important to sit down with them and have a conversation ahead of
time and say, hey, we're going to be doing things a little bit
differently from now on. We're going to set goals.
They're going to be accomplished.

(01:06:06):
But I'm able to help you in whatever way we just we agree
on. So I would have kids set goals
and then there would be plan A and Plan B Plan B would be to
have a little bit more parent help than you originally
planned. And parents can modify their
expectations so that it's a little bit easier to accomplish.

(01:06:27):
That's fine. That would just be plan BI.
Do think it's all about like making sure goals aren't too far
out of reach. You can build a confident child
with successful attempts at whatever you're trying to do.
And you just have to make sure that those are, like,
reasonable. You're not going to ask somebody
that's just starting a fitness journey to run a half marathon.

(01:06:48):
That's ridiculous. Sure, I'm so motivated for
parenting. The ABC thing I feel is so
valuable for me personally. I've seen forward movement in a
lot of areas. I feel like we could be
exponentially farther if I wouldhave considered that as well.
I wasn't covering all three bases is what I mean.
I used to give workshops on thattechnique and I, I mean, it was

(01:07:10):
helpful for everybody. I loved explaining it that way.
That way I felt like it was verydigestible and easy to implement
because you can use that framework for pretty much any
concern that you're having. Yeah.
When you say that you used to workshops on that, would you do
workshops specifically for clients of yours or is this just
for the general public? I would do them for who hired

(01:07:30):
me. So schools would also hire me to
come talk to their staff. And then some schools hired me
to do parent workshops, things like that.
And then I put on parent workshop where parents would
come to the clinic once a week at night and I would do group
thing. Goodness, I didn't realize that
schools would hire you to do stuff like that.
Like so like teachers for example would be the ones who

(01:07:52):
sat in I. Or like the mental health staff
usually like the counselors and the social.
Workers OK, I was going to say I'm already of the opinion that
teachers do so much and by and large they're incredible people
who have far more patience than I and are doing probably more
than the yes, God's work more than the best and they have or

(01:08:15):
fathom possibly be able to do with little resources.
But the thought of like them also taking out and thinking
about like emotional and social well-being of your kids.
It's like what the We're asking so much of these people and
there's so many kids in their classes.
With being at the peak of my career post COVID and building

(01:08:35):
relationships with teachers, I have heard from a lot of
teachers that that they spend more time managing behavior than
they do teaching. Now one of their biggest jobs is
managing behavior and thinking about emotional well-being.
It's way more of a big deal thanit was before COVID.

(01:08:57):
I spoke at a conference for teachers two years ago.
And I mean, the whole thing was mental health based.
That's why I was there and therewas 100 people there.
And they're all there to find better ways to provide mental
health services within schools. It's wild.
I wonder what's I mean. I guess I'm assuming that it's

(01:09:20):
progressively gotten worse over the years, so I wonder what's
contributing to that. I know I have like initial
ideas, but I don't. I have no facts, so I wonder
what the reason. True reason.
Is read The Anxious Generation. Yeah, we want to, right?
Yeah, I mean, like it'll, it explains a lot of like why
mental health has gotten so bad in the last 15.
Yeah, but well, then what? Is it just going to get worse?

(01:09:41):
I do think that because the people that are parents now are
were teenagers then I think things will change the way that
people parent. And like when we were kids was
the first teenage generation that had social media and had
technology the way we do now. And it's only gotten worse.
And now we're growing up to be the parent.

(01:10:02):
And I think we're going to have this cycle of less Internet
savvy kids. And then they they're not going
to have had it a lot. So then their kids are going to
be very Internet savvy and just going to go in this like cycle.
That's my theory. Oh yeah, I can see that for
sure. Because you've said that you
guys are anti screen, that meansno iPad, stuff like that in your
house, right? Same.

(01:10:23):
OK, Yeah, I'm very much in the mindset that I have to
irregulate screen usage. It's not a free for all.
And then I pull back. It is AI regulate how much is
given and I'm mindful of what's consumed.
But you're right. But you just go in cycles.
OK, So anything else that you want to add to this
conversation? I don't think so.
I think you asked some pretty good questions.
That's nice to. Hear OK, I have a question.

(01:10:44):
I feel like I know the answer because you're like top to your
mom, but I have this terrible habit of I will get groceries
and when I come in from that car, I have the diaper bag.
I have probably believe my Stanley.
I have penny and X amount of other things.
I go through my groceries and I find the food items, of course,

(01:11:04):
and the refrigerated items and Itake those in.
I don't come back out for the laundry detergent or the toilet
paper or the 24 case of water bottles.
Like that happens more times than I'd care to admit.
And at this time I have a case of 50 water bottles in my car.
I have a ton of toys that Penny has thrown around the car and I

(01:11:26):
have not retrieved 2 strollers, 3 jackets.
How do you choose what you take in when you have so much to take
in? And then how do you have the
diligence to go back out and getall this crap?
I don't. My car is a mess.
Same here. I think I told you that if you
get in my car and my car is straightened up, it's because I

(01:11:48):
did it for you and it's not because that is how it looks all
the time. So I if we go grocery shopping
that's different because and I have older kids now too.
So Reese will go in on her own. I get Brooke out first and let
her go inside and then I'll start to carry groceries in.
But when I am bringing in a tired child that I'm carrying

(01:12:10):
and all the other stuff like purse, water bottle, the stuff
that they decided they had to bring for a 5 minute car ride,
all of that stays in the car. I don't care, I don't have time
for it. Socks, all of it.
Reese knows to grab the stuff inher that she carried in, But for
Brooklyn, I just bring her in and then I start to carry my

(01:12:31):
other things. But my car is a mess as well.
Have you seen the clean with me that people post online?
Like most moms, it's all about, you know, what's a priority to
you and. I mean like a messy car.
I understand my car has always been messy, but I think what I'm
getting at is like half of my grocery order is still in my car
for quite a bit bit of time. Like I'll leave jugs of laundry

(01:12:55):
detergent in there until we absolutely need them, or I've
left a box of diapers in there until I've went and bought more
groceries and they're still in there.
Stuff that I don't need at this moment and isn't perishable.
It's not going to go bad sittingin the car.
It will live in my car for a while.
Yeah, that doesn't happen to me,but if I were you, it would

(01:13:16):
happen. It would happen the same way
because you're excluding the fact that you're parking your
car 1520 feet from. Your front door?
Yeah. We don't have an attached
garage. I hate it.
Right, right. So like you, I mean, it's a
journey and you're probably trying to be diligent about how
many trips you're doing. I would leave that stuff in the
cartoon if I were in your position.

(01:13:36):
I also get lazy. Penny's at that age where I
can't put her down and then go back out to the car.
So I have to wait till she goes down for a nap and then half the
time I forget. So then I get back in the car.
I'm like, it's still in there. Yeah.
I mean, you could pop the door open so that she's getting air
and run a few things in if it's a top priority to you, but I

(01:13:57):
wouldn't. I would do what you're doing.
Usually if I have groceries likefood, I'll put her like in her
bouncer and then I'll run out and grab the important things.
But she's learned to unhook the thing on her bouncer.
Every time I turn around, she's unhooked and I'm like, you're
going to fall on your. Face unhook the thing on our
bouncer. So I have a Baby Bjorn bouncer.

(01:14:18):
You know what that is? She sits out right.
Such a lounge thing that bouncesmushy kids.
Yeah, yeah. It's got like a little, yeah,
yeah. It's got little hooks.
And she's found a way to get thehook off.
Yeah. She's like a little eye to go.
She's like learned all this stuff.
There's no way to. There's no way to, Yep, there's
no way to fix it. Like to harness it so that she

(01:14:38):
can't get it off and now I just have to like I have no way to
put her anywhere where I know she's safe.
I hate. That because you got rid of the
little like gated thing too. Yeah, I used to have a big
playpen, but I was worried it was hindering her crawling, so I
took it out. Yeah, So yeah, here's one for
you, too. Reese and Brooke are both

(01:14:59):
getting their shoes on when it'stime for us to go somewhere, and
they go out into the garage while they're waiting for me to
walk downstairs, put my shoes on, then remember something else
that I needed to grab. Take my shoes off, go upstairs,
grab it, rinse and repeat. And so Reese can of course, open
up the car door, get herself in,buckle herself in entirety and

(01:15:23):
then close her own door. She's decided now that she needs
to help her sister and get into her car seat by going around and
opening up Brooke's car door. And then Brooke climbs.
I mean, I don't have a huge SUV.I have a small SUV.
And so it's you know, for a 2 year old, even though she's
tall, it's a big thing. She climbs up.
I'm like Reese, you can't do that when I'm not in the crutch.

(01:15:44):
One time I've already said this kids accident, Broome, one time
of her falling backwards and hitting her head on the concrete
that she's calling from three four feet.
Yeah, maybe that's. Terrifying.
Terrifying. She's like, I'm just trying to
help. I'm just trying to help my
sister. I'm like, because I tell this
girl, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart all day long,
I'm telling her what a good big sister she is.
She looks out for that kid. She cares about her.

(01:16:07):
She loves her. She's sweet to her.
She's also a demon to her. Oh, gosh, here comes the storm.
But yeah, she's been doing that lately.
And so now I have to be really mindful about how many trips I
want to make in and out. And now my wife wants to climb
in. When I let her into she's like
no I do it. And then I have to stand there
and watch her climb in. Cuz pick your battles.
And then explain to Reese why it's OK if you're watching her,

(01:16:29):
but it's not OK if Reese is watching her.
I have no struggles with that though, because you know, I can
catch. I'm capable of catching her.
I'm staying there and watching her.
Reese, There's Reese. Like there's reasons.
Does she handle that well by yousaying well This is why I can do
it and you can't? Yeah, yes, yes, she has no
problem with that. She has no problem in the moment
when I'm telling her reasons foras to why that's not safe, but

(01:16:53):
she has struggles to carry that into the next instance of like
she just said, she forgets that the conversation happened just.
She's like, it might be different today, yeah.
And honestly, she's not wrong. It could be different.
Okay, do you wanna wrap it up? Yes, I was gonna say help us
build a culture with moms at theforefront by sharing our
episodes with the moms in your life who could use a little

(01:17:15):
extra girl time. We're the ones who keep the
world turning, so might as well have something fun to listen to
while you do it. Meet us here every Wednesday for
a new episode and in the meantime, we'd love to keep the
conversation going with you on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
You can find us there at Momsense Pod and you can also
find us on YouTube at Momsense Podcast.
Also, please follow and rate ourshow on your podcast platform of

(01:17:40):
choice, it helps us out. Great deal.
We hope you have a great day anddon't forget to quarter your
kids grapes.

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