August 15, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, I share my opinions on all the negativity I've been seeing in the industry, how nothing in the mortgage industry makes sense, and what Brokers need to do to stop getting crushed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
(00:03):
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness.
(00:26):
So now I want to distill all thatinformation, all the things I've
learned from that and bring itdirectly to you in a simple to
understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to Mortgage Game Podcast.
West Coast Wiley here coming toyou live podcast west coast why
we're here coming to you live backoff camera man technical
(00:48):
difficulties so that's okay it waslike you wait until you get the
perfect setup and then you get theperfect thing where it can hold
the camera inside the truck tofilm you so you get some content
you can repurpose it and thenthat's like a day or two days and
then you talk or you just do thepodcast audio style old school
like we have for hundreds of theseand then you talk or you to, just
do the podcast, audio style, oldschool, like we have for hundreds
of these, fire it off, live tofight another day.
That's where I always go.
I go, as soon as we start getting
too much into something, we go,let's get out.
(01:10):
Because if I make this podcast ornot, it's not going to move the
needle.
But if I don't do it, I start
losing on, hey, the weekly podcastcoming out.
And so we just stick at it, muchlike everything.
And you should in your business.
So this week's podcast, oh, man,
there's so much going on.
It's one thing, right?
I talk with us a lot.
Like, you are the brand of your
(01:32):
company.
You are the negative energy you
put out there, the negativeconversations you have.
People, right or wrong, if youwere right or wrong, they just see
it as negative.
And I see a lot of negativity with
mortgage brokers shitting onlenders, shitting on the branches,
the banks, the big bad evil,putting people down instead of
looking in the mirror and levelingup your own game.
(01:56):
And so we're in a unique situationhere.
This comes around in cycles.
For those who haven't been in this
game long enough, this comes incycles.
The cycles are you're going to getyour ass handed to you by the
banks and the branches, evenbanks.
If you're with Scotiabank, thebranch is going to beat you in a
lot of deals.
Same with TD.
And you can't be like, I don'tunderstand.
(02:16):
I thought we were on the sameteam.
Well, no, because they pay theirinternal banking team, I don't
know, 20, 30, 40 basis points.
They pay you 100, 127 with volume
bonus on President's Club, evenhigher with efficiency bonus, like
whatever those numbers are.
So yeah, they can give lower rates
in the branch.
It doesn't make sense.
No. But I'll tell you this,nothing about the mortgage
(02:39):
industry makes sense.
The quicker you come to terms with
that, the better off you'll be.
I've known this for 10 plus years.
I've been in this game for 15.
This industry, it's backwards.
It is so unsophisticated.
It is so behind the times.
It's so behind the times of theUS.
It's so behind the times for otherindustries.
My wife, Jen, came in fromexecutive recruitment, working
(03:01):
with C-level executives.
And this isn't what the podcast is
about, by the way, but we aregoing to talk about some things.
But she came into this world anddealing with polished people and
polished businesses, financial,you know, consumer packaged goods,
financial services, HR, and it'slike all buttoned up and the
process is do, do, do, do, do.
And then she came in here and
(03:22):
started working.
She's like, Ryan, this is a shit
show.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
She's like, the lenders live in agray area and come out of left
field and ask you for something.
The you're clients, battling
against the branch level plusScotia or TD with your BDM against
BRM, the branch.
And it's internal.
They have internal struggles.
And then the software's nothing
talking over here.
(03:42):
Regulations are changed.
She's like, this is a gong show.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
I go, but guess what?If it wasn't such a shit show, a
large percentage of mortgagebrokers would be out of work
because it would be so dialed in,they wouldn't need us.
And so I want you to think aboutthat for a second.
(04:04):
Yeah, it's frustrating.
It's a very stressful career.
But we also can work from whereveryou want, make as much money as
you want.
Now you just have to work harder
for it.
Oh, poor baby, you have to work
hard now.
Oh, muffin, right?
So I always tell my kids, oh,muffin, that's too bad.
Why don't we like put our nosedown and dig in?
(04:26):
I know $100 million producers thatare doing $20 million a year now.
You know why?Because they're not evolving.
And they got caught and they gotlazy.
And so a lot of you are gettingcrushed.
And we used to get beat by 5, 10basis points, 15.
Now you're getting beat by 20, 30,40, 50, 60.
And here's the problem.
It's a problem with our industry,
but it's also a problem with you.
And you need to look in the
(04:46):
freaking mirror.
And yeah, I got a little energy
right now.
Okay.
I'm coming at you because I'mseeing I'm not this.
chiming in on any place becauseI'm building I got a shit.
little energy right I'm now.
coming Okay.
at you because I'm seeing I'm notthis.
chiming in on any place becauseI'm building shit.
I got stuff I'm building that'sgoing to be fricking spectacular.
I don't have time to chime.
That's why I do it here.
It's a one to many.
If I'm going into Facebook groups
and texts, I'm talking people offto, ah, it's not best use of my
time.
That's not what I'm put on the
(05:06):
planet for.
I'm putting the planet to lead
people, to make people'sbusinesses better.
And I can't do that like that.
So that's why I'm doing it like
this.
And so you're getting crushed.
You're getting crushed becauseyou're reacting to stuff.
What I mean by that is this.
This is absolutely any of you.
I don't care how well you thinkyour business is.
If you're that arrogant that youthink your business is so
phenomenal, well you think yourbusiness is.
If you're that arrogant that youthink your business is so
(05:29):
phenomenal, oh, wow, hey, likemaybe you're a one-off.
I mean, like, good for you.
But I'm like, I'd love like shave
off a slice of that for the restof us.
It's not the case.
Everyone's getting destroyed in
one way or another.
And if it's not getting destroyed
volume-wise, it's gettingdestroyed quality of life and
time-wise.
The time it takes to put in the
energy, the stress, the lessyou're present for the rest of
your life.
You're not a mortgage broker.
You weren't put here to be amortgage broker.
(05:50):
It's not going to be written onyour tombstone.
Ryan Wiley, mortgage broker.
No, that's not.
Father, husband, right?It's going to be that.
And so I need to know that's mynumber one.
I need to make sure that's takencare of.
I need to know I'm there.
Then I build a business around it.
A lot of you are reacting.
You are reacting.
You are dealing with renewals.
If you're looking for a renewal
business, that's like the door yougo knocking on.
(06:11):
Be careful who answers the door.
If you just go around looking for
it, if you find trouble in anycity, any city in the world, like,
ah, there's no trouble here.
It looks good.
No, you, if you want to go findit, you can't.
If you're a biker, Hells Angels,and you go into a city and you put
that energy out, you're going tofind trouble.
(06:33):
I don't know why I picked HellsAngels, but I did.
Okay.
You're going to find that.
And so a lot of you are lookingfor that energy.
You're looking for the renewalenergy.
And so you get that back and guesswhat?
Ah, now you're having the calls.
And now guess what?
Your client's coming in.
Now you're talking price and
product.
You're trying to cut down the
lender they're with.
And you're trying to like say,
well, you shouldn't go there.
(06:54):
You should come over with me.
And a lot of you are living oldschool where you're thinking your
best awesome customer service isgoing to build your business.
Back in the day, and I'm talkinglike three, four, five years ago,
10 years ago, you could build avery, very nice business with
great customer service.
Now, someone's going to wipe the
floor with you at some point.
It's a matter of time before you
have to up your game.
(07:14):
And unfortunately, not a lot of
you are.
So if you're always reacting and
you're dealing with renewals, Iknow if I'm looking for renewal
business, I know that the type ofenergy that's coming to me means
they're going to be an offer isgoing to be made to them.
Okay.
Hear me out.
An offer might've already beenmade.
An offer's coming through anonline portal, through a phone
call, through, and we get thedischarge papers.
They have to talk to them.
(07:36):
An offer is going to be made.
So you're in competition for therenewal with teams that are trying
to keep them.
And you've got like all these
people trying to keep this person.
Then when you go in for purchases
and if you say, hey, I'm lookingfor purchase business and blah,
blah, blah.
Perfect.
You go down that path.
They're going to talk to their
bank at some point.
Like I think we're at that stage
(07:57):
now where everyone knows they'regoing to talk to the bank or
they're talking online tosomebody.
So you're in competition.
So you're always reacting, right?
And you're always going up againstpeople.
And if you don't have your valueads, a lot of you just aren't
really good on your soft salesskills.
And you can't even understand in30 seconds or articulate what your
value ads are.
And it's not that I'm here and I
pick up the phone and I'm this andI'm a good person and I send
(08:18):
regular emails and stay in touch.
Like, sure, that's okay.
But is that going to justify a 40basis point difference?
Is it?Tell me.
Do you think it is you're lying toyourself?
It's not going to happen.
So you're playing in a reactive
world.
And so there's a saying that is
don't hate the player, hate thegame.
You're playing a game right nowand you're hating the player, the
players, the bank and the branchand the people who are beating
you.
And you're hating and you're
(08:39):
shitting on them.
You're like, ah, it's like, no,
look in the mirror.
Come on, look in the mirror.
It's the game.
You have to change the game.
So if I'm always looking for thepeople who are always going to be
having offers put up against them,this is a time and place where you
have to think outside the box.
You have to think differently.
You have to get away from priceand product.
(09:01):
You have to work on refinances.
And yeah, what do you do?
You're restructuring debt.
You're coming up with different
scenarios, showing people how torestructure their debt and why
they should do it.
Is it to build growth?
Is it for debt consolidation?Is it to buy investment
properties?Is it to top up their RSPs?
Is it to take tax advantages?You should have these strategies.
You should understand them.
Or you can just keep going into it
and being really nice on the phoneand making buddy-buddy with them
(09:22):
and thinking, this is all good.
They're sending the application
in.
We get down.
You're like, just skipping downthe road.
I think Wizard of Oz, I'm datingmyself there.
Off to see the wonderful Wizard ofOz.
And then they're like, yeah, we'renot going to do, we got to offer a
cashback in Avion points.
And you're like, son of a bitch.
Right?This is happening.
And then what do you revert backto?
Oh, well, yeah, but they'recompounded daily or monthly and
(09:44):
blah.
And the IRD, the posted rate could
be worse.
And the prepayment privileges,
even though no one uses thosereally, isn't as good.
And you start like scrambling.
And then you're like, really?
I don't really know why I'd workwith myself for 30 basis points.
Difference, $500,000 mortgage,like $1,500 a year, five years,
$7,500.
How do I make that up?
I don't know.
(10:04):
You tell me.
Would you work for yourself for 20basis point or premium?
Would you?Would you?
Like, what's the other thingyou're doing?
And so it's crazy that we are inan industry where we are not held
accountable, where we have toalways be sharpening the knife,
our skills on how to save ourclients money.
We get into this industry with ajoke of a course, we get thrown
(10:29):
into some brokerage that doesn'tknow what the hell they're doing.
And even if they do, good for you,you figured that out, they know
where to place a deal, but they'renot showing you where to get
business.
And so you're scrambling, you're
on an island, and you keep ongoing.
And you keep on plugging.
(10:51):
And then guess what, it comes up
to renew your license.
And you take a two year course.
And you say, or every two years,you take a 40 minute multiple
choice question.
I've done so many of these.
I don't even know what was in thething.
You're just like speed reading andlike B, C, A, D, E, F, right?
(11:12):
There's no strategies in there tohelp you save your client money,
to be an expert on what you do.
And then you pay your 750 and you
pay the cash cow and you carry on,you back out in the wilderness and
you've got a pocket knife andyou're starving and you're like,
where the frick do I go?Should I eat that berry?
I don't know.
It looks wild to me.
Let's let Johnny over here eat it.
(11:33):
Right.
And we'll see what happens to him.
And you're sitting there going, I
don't know, where do we get thedeals?
What do we do?What do we do?
Oh, 30 B. I wouldn't work with us.
This industry sucks.
It's only a matter of time, right?And you start spiraling.
And that's where we're at rightnow.
That's where we're at.
And unfortunately, the industry is
not going to help you.
All of you are on an island.
(11:56):
And the ones who have made it sofar, you've figured some things
out and you've been resourceful,which has been great.
But you still have to keep goingand up in your game.
A lot of us just sit on our handsand we wait for deals.
And then the deal comes in and wehave a conversation and we get an
application and we lose the deal.
And we're sitting there going, oh
shit, this sucks.
This industry sucks.
(12:16):
The banks are screwing us.
It's not the case.
Up your game.
I have a hard time referring
people out in this industry.
There's only so many people I
would actually refer people andput my name on it too, because I
know they've their game.
I know they are absolute experts
at what they do and they will showthe client how to save money.
I don't care about getting itfinanced.
I'm not talking about that.
If you're an underwriting ninja,
phenomenal, great, good for You'reyou.
going to get some deals I'm done.
(12:37):
not talking about If that.
you're an underwriting ninja,phenomenal, great, good for you.
You're going to get some dealsdone.
I'm talking about the people whereit's me against CIBC, RBC, show me
how to sit, show me the money.
Jerry Maguire style.
How are we going to do it?But a lot of you just sit back and
you're like, no. And then you endup inevitably battling it out,
which you're going to lose ninetimes out of 10.
(13:01):
Once in a while, you win, you cutall your commission out, you throw
in legals, you throw in this andyou leave it and you're stressed
out and then you bring that home.
And then you don't know where the
money is coming from, but insteadof trying to up your game and be
better, more of an expert.
How can I strategically get better
and not have conversations aboutproduct and price?
(13:22):
I'm inevitably going to have someof those conversations.
But how do I figure out a way togo after the people who aren't
being pitched, who aren't beingsent offers, the renewals and the
purchases?How do I go after the refinances?
People are sitting there thinkingthey're good.
How can I explain to them there'sa better way to do X, Y, and Z?
There's a better way to increaseyour net worth, to retire quicker,
to be mortgage-free faster, to getmore money from CRA to pay your
mortgage off, to do X, Y, Z.
(13:44):
That's what I need to do because
the people who are doing that arenot having the same conversations
you are over here.
Where you're grinding away,
getting extremely frustrated, andyou're frustrating everybody
around you.
So, unfortunately, that's the
industry we're in.
Where you are on a freaking
island.
You are.
Nobody is sitting there teachingyou these advanced strategies now
obviously i have a coachingcompany i have a training company
we do some of this stuff that'snot why i'm here talking to you
(14:07):
about this this is me just goinglike i recognized in my career
halfway through that i don't wantto be the person that does that
and i'm trying to always sortthrough 40 things to find the good
five or six deals and haveunderwriters on my team and
fulfillment and call intake peopleand manage four or five people and
all their personalities andpayroll to sort through all the
shit to find the people that I canhelp.
(14:29):
I'm just going to go find thepeople I love working with.
And it's going to be around doinga refinance.
They need me to get to where theywant to go.
And I'm going to point out youhave a problem, a problem they
don't realize yet.
And if I get good at that, then
(14:50):
they will work with me for thepremium.
Because they can go to RBC, butthey don't get me.
So you've heard me talk about allthis in the avatar.
And this is just me sitting in theback.
I'm in the back eating popcorn.
I'm eating popcorn and I'm seeing,
and here's the thing.
(15:11):
I can't save everyone.
I cannot save everyone.
I can't.
I'm not even going to save any ofyou on this call or this podcast.
I'm not.
It's not what this is about.
This is about just, I want you togo into this with eyes wide open.
Right?This isn't anyone else's This is
about I want you to go into fault.
(15:34):
this with eyes wide just, right?
open, This isn't anyone else'sfault.
It's not your team your brokeryour you the licensing lead, body.
owner, network, know, It's it'syour like, fault.
it's, Everything comes back to youmuch like a deal itself.
It's interesting.
We had, I was on a training call
and a guy came on who I have madrespect for and he came in and we
were talking about the strategycall.
So this is when you have a livedeal, like it's actual refinance,
(15:57):
ready to go, submit to a lender,or here's the APS MLS, let's jump
on a call.
And you jump in, I walked him
through how we did it, where we'dwalk him through the budget and
then we'd show him differentoffers from different lenders on
the paper, we'd get them down tolike one option to choose from.
And he brought up a point, he'slike, Hey, Ryan, because of where
we're at right now, early in thepre approval process that when I
first pre approved him, I sendthem the budget and outline the
(16:20):
offers for them.
Like, here's what you're pre
approved for.
Here's all your numbers.
I actually put the side I go,here's my pre approval for you.
Here's RBC.
And he's like, so I actually if
that side.
I here's go, my pre-approval for
you.
Here's RBC.
And he's so I if that's theirlike, I find out actually, who
they're banking with.
(16:40):
bank, And then I here's what we're
seeing with go, RBC.
This is their offer if you went
there.
And his rationale I don't was,
want them going into the bank.
I'm just going to show them the
rate already.
He says, so it's far, been
working.
And I'm it's interesting.
like, OK, So there's two thingswith this.
It's interesting because I get it.
To some degree, I like it.
I'm going to throw, I know youbank with RBC, Tom.
That's why I threw that here, RBC,right beside my pre-approval.
(17:01):
And you can see the interest rate.
I think that's too early to have a
conversation because it's still apre-approval and they might not
buy for seven months, right?I encourage them to go on.
But here's the thing.
You've already, from day one,
turned the conversation back toprice and product because you're
showing what they have and whatyou have.
And the only difference you'reshowing is the interest rate.
So that's my major flaw with thatidea.
But this just tells me, and thisis a smart broker, by the way,
(17:22):
knows what he's doing, thinksoutside the box, love how he does,
how he brokers.
He's going to that.
So I'm like, what's the averagemortgage broker going to?
I'm like, oh God, this is, this isgoing to be bad.
This is going to be bad.
You are going to get swallowed up
and spit out.
And so I always come back to, man,
change how, the conversation.
That's all you should swallowed up
and spit And out.
so I always come back to, how man,
change the conversation?That's all you should be trying to
(17:45):
figure out.
How do I change the conversation?
What are my 10 questions?I might not go through them all.
There might be two, three, four,five.
Maybe I use two here, three here,four there.
I've given you so many of thesequestions, but the ones I'm seeing
who are crushing it now are theones who are changing the
conversation.
Now, would you rather work with
people who didn't real thoughtthey were good with their
(18:06):
mortgage, you present a scenarioto them, and they go, huh,
interesting.
And guess what the outcome is your
mortgage free four years faster,payments don't increase.
Do you want to talk?And they're like, yeah, let's
talk.
Boom, you present it to them, you
get their application.
You run through.
You're going to save them$200,000, $80,000, $300,000
because you've learned thestrategy.
You've learned how to sell it.
You've learned how to position it.
(18:28):
You've learned how to take hooksout of it.
You've learned to talk about thatand only that.
What do you think is going tohappen?
That's who you're going to beworking with.
It's going to change theconversation.
Could they go back to the bank?Sure.
If you're not going to execute anyof the plan for them, right?
I'm not going to lay it out likestep by step.
I'm going to go, hey, this is theplan.
So we talked about a plan in ourlast training, and it's called a
ladder strategy.
And other people call it a cascade
(18:49):
strategy.
And it's not my strategy.
It's what I've learned, right?Some of these things I come up
with myself and put into practiceand I talk about and train on.
This one I did not, but we aregoing to train on.
We are building tools around it.
But I'm going to lay out very
quickly what the strategy is.
And it's up to you to decide if
you think that would be a greattool to have in your toolbox.
(19:10):
It's something we're going to beteaching on, I think, September
11th.
We have a renewal boot camp, a
virtual one.
Yeah, you don't have to fly
anywhere.
You don't have to meet us.
Do it virtually.
We're going to do it.
We're going to give you three,four strategies you can use, not
just for renewal, but at refinanceand purchases and all that stuff.
(19:31):
So this is a cascade one.
I'm going to fly through it fast.
Before I do, this podcast isbrought to you by H2O with a
little salt in there for someelectrolytes.
H2O with a little salt in therefor some electrolytes.
so let's say it's Okay, anuninsured deal, and let's just say
the loan devalues whatever, 70%.
Okay, I'm just going to use easy
math.
Let's go 80%.
80%, you set them up $500,000mortgage.
Okay, put them in a step program.
Now they pay down the mortgage,
and let's say after the first yearthere and let's is, say you put
(19:53):
them in a step Now program.
they pay down the And mortgage.
let's say after the first yearthere is, and let's say you put
them in a five-year fixed, this isgoing to allow you to get all the
benefits of a fixed plus interestrates are coming down.
So you're going to be able to getlower interest rates as well.
And we can also get your paymentslower as well.
If you need that extra cashflowthroughout your five-year term,
(20:14):
they're going to be like, yeah, Iwant all that.
All the benefits of all of it,zero downside.
Yeah.
I'm going to show you how.
So half a million dollar mortgage,they pay down there.
Let's just say I'm using numbershere.
They pay their mortgage down$30,000.
Okay.
So they have 30,000 becomes
available on the home equity line.
So at the end of year one, you
have in your calendar, you reachout and you go, Hey, it's time to
do this now for this year.
(20:34):
They go and they take the 30K
that's available on the HELOC.
Doesn't matter what the interest
rate is on the HELOC, does notmatter.
They take it and they prepay themortgage down.
So instead of 470, because we wentfrom five, paid it down to 470
after year one, you're going toprepay it down to 430 or 440.
Okay.
And you'll carry, so 440 at the
five-year fixed number, and you'llhave 30K in the HELOC.
(20:56):
And then you're going to go in,you're going to lock the HELOC
number, the 30K in the HELOC intoa four, you're going to align it
with the remaining term into afour-year fixed.
Because the four-year fixed hascome down.
The fixed rates have come downover that year.
That's when this strategy works.
So you start dollar cost averaging
in lower interest rates.
Then year two, you do the same
thing.
And year three and year four.
And then guess what?If they want lower payments
because if something came up, X,Y, Z, lost a job, need cash or
whatever, because it's with thepreferred lender you have, you can
(21:18):
re-amortize the payments.
You can bring the payment back up
to 30 years.
But they're getting all these
interest rates averaged in lowerinterest rates.
And if I talk too fast there, goback and listen.
So imagine you had some of those60% loan to value.
They're going to, out of the gate,after year one, they're going to
be able to maximize theirprepayment privilege.
So in that example I gave you,let's just say they had 300K
(21:39):
mortgage, and they had a 200K oreven 100K HELOC.
Well, 20% prepayment on the 300,that's 60 pulled a 60 000 off the
heloc they would have paid it downas well but you get what i'm
saying right this wasn't a podcaston teaching you the inner workings
of this stuff this is stuff wetrain on and teach on and coach on
this stuff that everyone on myteam and yeah i said my team and
i'll talk about that next montheveryone on my team is going to
(22:01):
know this strategy inside out.
This is part of, as a team lead,
coaching and mentoring onstrategies showing you how to save
the client money and change theconversation from product and
price to restructuring debt andhow they win.
This is what we should belearning.
But instead, we're not.
We've been bamboozled into
learning all these other lenderproducts.
And we've been thrown into lunchand learns and trips and go to
this event and go over here and dothis and these golfing days and go
(22:23):
do that.
And it's just like, it's like
drugging us.
We're like, ah, so many products,
so awesome.
And then you're like, but I have
no clients.
I have no clients and I'm not even
an expert.
I'm an expert at understanding
some of these products and whereto place a deal once in a while
and which lender to go with, whichis a part of our job description.
So that's cool.
But I'm not an expert at saving my
client money.
I'm an expert at getting an
(22:44):
approval that I'll ultimatelylose.
Ah, there should be like somelight bulbs going off and on here.
There should be.
They're going off for me.
So this is what I wanted to talkabout.
I'm going to keep talking aboutthat here and there.
Oh, man, I don't know if there's amoral to the story here.
You know, don't hate the player.
Hate the game.
You know, there's a moral to thestory here you know donate the
(23:08):
player hate the game you knowthat's kind of where i go with
this this isn't their thing thisis a you thing as i tell my kids
all the time this is a you thingum but and i'm here to help i'm
here to help you figure it outthough but this isn't you thing
it's nothing else okay the reasonyou only have so much money your
bank account is because of you.
It's not because RBC gave your
(23:30):
client $5,000.
We had a call like this on one of
our last training.
And you'll know who you are if
you're listening and it's nothingagainst you.
This is like 99% of brokers arelike this.
It is, hey, I lost the deal and Igot undercut and I lost my 30, 40
basis points.
(23:51):
So I always reverse engineer that.
And they're like, Ryan, what couldI have done?
And I'm like, well, I don't knowexactly how we got here.
But if I reverse engineer it, andI go, okay, what sort of
handholding did you do?Did you present?
Did you I go right to thebeginning?
I go, okay, did you tell them thatyou're going to ask for a
(24:13):
commitment to work with you andget their word?
Did you show them snippets of whatyou do?
Did you present after thepre-approval certain scenarios
where they might be able to savemoney on their taxes or top up
their RSPs or pull money out toinvest here or write stuff off
because you did this here or theladder down strategy here?
Like, did you present that stuff?And then did you actually ask for
(24:35):
the commitment?And did they tell you, yeah,
you're our guy, you're our girl,let's go.
And then they go out and shop.
And then did you jump on a
strategy call with them, whereyou're eye to eye with them, and
you're going through the finalbudget, and you're answering, and
they're coming up going, hey, RBCis giving me this now.
And you're like, cool, remember,you gave your word.
Plus, we're also going to be usingthis strategy here.
And so we're going to make thatmoney back.
And then some plus you get me in,like, have you done all that?
And the answer is always no. Orit's, I did this or this, but I
(24:58):
didn't do that, that, that.
So I tell you, most of the times
when you lost the deal, you lostit at the beginning.
You had already lost it.
You were always going to lose that
deal, right?So that's a process thing you need
to pick up at the beginning.
I'd rather know if I'm going to
work with this client in the firsthalf hour or not.
And so, but I have to arm myselfwith these expert strategies.
And if I'm not, then what am Idoing?
(25:19):
I'm just pushing paper, walkingaround going, I've got 30 lenders.
Come work with me.
I'll get a deal done.
But you can get one betteryourself if you walk into the
branch, even though you're not anexpert.
But I'm an expert.
I'll get deals done for you,
right?Like when you say that out loud,
it's actually pretty embarrassing.
It's kind of like, oh yeah, yeah,
I get it, right?And so I'm a little spicy on this
(25:40):
one.
You can tell.
And it's, it's been a bill not fora bit, right?
And I saved the spiciness forthis.
So I want to leave you with that,okay?
I'm going to end this podcast.
I hope you got some from that.
I hope you're just signing up yourgame and not just renewing your
license every two years and takingthat course.
I hope you're actually looking forways to save your clients money
(26:02):
and not all maximize prepaymentprivileges, right?
And I'll do that.
Like the people who figured it
out, they're not having theproblems you are, but they've
upped their game.
Okay.
Takes time, time to do that.
And the will that you want to do
and get better at it.
I don't know any other career
where you don't have toconsistently up your game.
Like FAs, they're constantly beingshown new strategies.
They're constantly doing, goingthrough training, shown new
strategies.
They're constantly doing going
through training, very extensivetraining.
They're constantly having newcertifications.
We are not.
(26:22):
It's complete bullshit.
But this is the world we chose tobe in.
As my wife said, this is a gongshow.
That's it, kids.
Peace out.
you
Welcome to the mortgage game.
(00:03):
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness.
(00:26):
So now I want to distill all thatinformation, all the things I've
learned from that and bring itdirectly to you in a simple to
understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to Mortgage Game Podcast.
West Coast Wiley here coming toyou live podcast west coast why
we're here coming to you live backoff camera man technical
(00:48):
difficulties so that's okay it waslike you wait until you get the
perfect setup and then you get theperfect thing where it can hold
the camera inside the truck tofilm you so you get some content
you can repurpose it and thenthat's like a day or two days and
then you talk or you just do thepodcast audio style old school
like we have for hundreds of theseand then you talk or you to, just
do the podcast, audio style, oldschool, like we have for hundreds
of these, fire it off, live tofight another day.
That's where I always go.
I go, as soon as we start getting
too much into something, we go,let's get out.
(01:10):
Because if I make this podcast ornot, it's not going to move the
needle.
But if I don't do it, I start
losing on, hey, the weekly podcastcoming out.
And so we just stick at it, muchlike everything.
And you should in your business.
So this week's podcast, oh, man,
there's so much going on.
It's one thing, right?
I talk with us a lot.
Like, you are the brand of your
(01:32):
company.
You are the negative energy you
put out there, the negativeconversations you have.
People, right or wrong, if youwere right or wrong, they just see
it as negative.
And I see a lot of negativity with
mortgage brokers shitting onlenders, shitting on the branches,
the banks, the big bad evil,putting people down instead of
looking in the mirror and levelingup your own game.
(01:56):
And so we're in a unique situationhere.
This comes around in cycles.
For those who haven't been in this
game long enough, this comes incycles.
The cycles are you're going to getyour ass handed to you by the
banks and the branches, evenbanks.
If you're with Scotiabank, thebranch is going to beat you in a
lot of deals.
Same with TD.
And you can't be like, I don'tunderstand.
(02:16):
I thought we were on the sameteam.
Well, no, because they pay theirinternal banking team, I don't
know, 20, 30, 40 basis points.
They pay you 100, 127 with volume
bonus on President's Club, evenhigher with efficiency bonus, like
whatever those numbers are.
So yeah, they can give lower rates
in the branch.
It doesn't make sense.
No. But I'll tell you this,nothing about the mortgage
(02:39):
industry makes sense.
The quicker you come to terms with
that, the better off you'll be.
I've known this for 10 plus years.
I've been in this game for 15.
This industry, it's backwards.
It is so unsophisticated.
It is so behind the times.
It's so behind the times of theUS.
It's so behind the times for otherindustries.
My wife, Jen, came in fromexecutive recruitment, working
(03:01):
with C-level executives.
And this isn't what the podcast is
about, by the way, but we aregoing to talk about some things.
But she came into this world anddealing with polished people and
polished businesses, financial,you know, consumer packaged goods,
financial services, HR, and it'slike all buttoned up and the
process is do, do, do, do, do.
And then she came in here and
(03:22):
started working.
She's like, Ryan, this is a shit
show.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
She's like, the lenders live in agray area and come out of left
field and ask you for something.
The you're clients, battling
against the branch level plusScotia or TD with your BDM against
BRM, the branch.
And it's internal.
They have internal struggles.
And then the software's nothing
talking over here.
(03:42):
Regulations are changed.
She's like, this is a gong show.
I'm like, yeah, I know.
I go, but guess what?If it wasn't such a shit show, a
large percentage of mortgagebrokers would be out of work
because it would be so dialed in,they wouldn't need us.
And so I want you to think aboutthat for a second.
(04:04):
Yeah, it's frustrating.
It's a very stressful career.
But we also can work from whereveryou want, make as much money as
you want.
Now you just have to work harder
for it.
Oh, poor baby, you have to work
hard now.
Oh, muffin, right?
So I always tell my kids, oh,muffin, that's too bad.
Why don't we like put our nosedown and dig in?
(04:26):
I know $100 million producers thatare doing $20 million a year now.
You know why?Because they're not evolving.
And they got caught and they gotlazy.
And so a lot of you are gettingcrushed.
And we used to get beat by 5, 10basis points, 15.
Now you're getting beat by 20, 30,40, 50, 60.
And here's the problem.
It's a problem with our industry,
but it's also a problem with you.
And you need to look in the
(04:46):
freaking mirror.
And yeah, I got a little energy
right now.
Okay.
I'm coming at you because I'mseeing I'm not this.
chiming in on any place becauseI'm building I got a shit.
little energy right I'm now.
coming Okay.
at you because I'm seeing I'm notthis.
chiming in on any place becauseI'm building shit.
I got stuff I'm building that'sgoing to be fricking spectacular.
I don't have time to chime.
That's why I do it here.
It's a one to many.
If I'm going into Facebook groups
and texts, I'm talking people offto, ah, it's not best use of my
time.
That's not what I'm put on the
(05:06):
planet for.
I'm putting the planet to lead
people, to make people'sbusinesses better.
And I can't do that like that.
So that's why I'm doing it like
this.
And so you're getting crushed.
You're getting crushed becauseyou're reacting to stuff.
What I mean by that is this.
This is absolutely any of you.
I don't care how well you thinkyour business is.
If you're that arrogant that youthink your business is so
phenomenal, well you think yourbusiness is.
If you're that arrogant that youthink your business is so
(05:29):
phenomenal, oh, wow, hey, likemaybe you're a one-off.
I mean, like, good for you.
But I'm like, I'd love like shave
off a slice of that for the restof us.
It's not the case.
Everyone's getting destroyed in
one way or another.
And if it's not getting destroyed
volume-wise, it's gettingdestroyed quality of life and
time-wise.
The time it takes to put in the
energy, the stress, the lessyou're present for the rest of
your life.
You're not a mortgage broker.
You weren't put here to be amortgage broker.
(05:50):
It's not going to be written onyour tombstone.
Ryan Wiley, mortgage broker.
No, that's not.
Father, husband, right?It's going to be that.
And so I need to know that's mynumber one.
I need to make sure that's takencare of.
I need to know I'm there.
Then I build a business around it.
A lot of you are reacting.
You are reacting.
You are dealing with renewals.
If you're looking for a renewal
business, that's like the door yougo knocking on.
(06:11):
Be careful who answers the door.
If you just go around looking for
it, if you find trouble in anycity, any city in the world, like,
ah, there's no trouble here.
It looks good.
No, you, if you want to go findit, you can't.
If you're a biker, Hells Angels,and you go into a city and you put
that energy out, you're going tofind trouble.
(06:33):
I don't know why I picked HellsAngels, but I did.
Okay.
You're going to find that.
And so a lot of you are lookingfor that energy.
You're looking for the renewalenergy.
And so you get that back and guesswhat?
Ah, now you're having the calls.
And now guess what?
Your client's coming in.
Now you're talking price and
product.
You're trying to cut down the
lender they're with.
And you're trying to like say,
well, you shouldn't go there.
(06:54):
You should come over with me.
And a lot of you are living oldschool where you're thinking your
best awesome customer service isgoing to build your business.
Back in the day, and I'm talkinglike three, four, five years ago,
10 years ago, you could build avery, very nice business with
great customer service.
Now, someone's going to wipe the
floor with you at some point.
It's a matter of time before you
have to up your game.
(07:14):
And unfortunately, not a lot of
you are.
So if you're always reacting and
you're dealing with renewals, Iknow if I'm looking for renewal
business, I know that the type ofenergy that's coming to me means
they're going to be an offer isgoing to be made to them.
Okay.
Hear me out.
An offer might've already beenmade.
An offer's coming through anonline portal, through a phone
call, through, and we get thedischarge papers.
They have to talk to them.
(07:36):
An offer is going to be made.
So you're in competition for therenewal with teams that are trying
to keep them.
And you've got like all these
people trying to keep this person.
Then when you go in for purchases
and if you say, hey, I'm lookingfor purchase business and blah,
blah, blah.
Perfect.
You go down that path.
They're going to talk to their
bank at some point.
Like I think we're at that stage
(07:57):
now where everyone knows they'regoing to talk to the bank or
they're talking online tosomebody.
So you're in competition.
So you're always reacting, right?
And you're always going up againstpeople.
And if you don't have your valueads, a lot of you just aren't
really good on your soft salesskills.
And you can't even understand in30 seconds or articulate what your
value ads are.
And it's not that I'm here and I
pick up the phone and I'm this andI'm a good person and I send
(08:18):
regular emails and stay in touch.
Like, sure, that's okay.
But is that going to justify a 40basis point difference?
Is it?Tell me.
Do you think it is you're lying toyourself?
It's not going to happen.
So you're playing in a reactive
world.
And so there's a saying that is
don't hate the player, hate thegame.
You're playing a game right nowand you're hating the player, the
players, the bank and the branchand the people who are beating
you.
And you're hating and you're
(08:39):
shitting on them.
You're like, ah, it's like, no,
look in the mirror.
Come on, look in the mirror.
It's the game.
You have to change the game.
So if I'm always looking for thepeople who are always going to be
having offers put up against them,this is a time and place where you
have to think outside the box.
You have to think differently.
You have to get away from priceand product.
(09:01):
You have to work on refinances.
And yeah, what do you do?
You're restructuring debt.
You're coming up with different
scenarios, showing people how torestructure their debt and why
they should do it.
Is it to build growth?
Is it for debt consolidation?Is it to buy investment
properties?Is it to top up their RSPs?
Is it to take tax advantages?You should have these strategies.
You should understand them.
Or you can just keep going into it
and being really nice on the phoneand making buddy-buddy with them
(09:22):
and thinking, this is all good.
They're sending the application
in.
We get down.
You're like, just skipping downthe road.
I think Wizard of Oz, I'm datingmyself there.
Off to see the wonderful Wizard ofOz.
And then they're like, yeah, we'renot going to do, we got to offer a
cashback in Avion points.
And you're like, son of a bitch.
Right?This is happening.
And then what do you revert backto?
Oh, well, yeah, but they'recompounded daily or monthly and
(09:44):
blah.
And the IRD, the posted rate could
be worse.
And the prepayment privileges,
even though no one uses thosereally, isn't as good.
And you start like scrambling.
And then you're like, really?
I don't really know why I'd workwith myself for 30 basis points.
Difference, $500,000 mortgage,like $1,500 a year, five years,
$7,500.
How do I make that up?
I don't know.
(10:04):
You tell me.
Would you work for yourself for 20basis point or premium?
Would you?Would you?
Like, what's the other thingyou're doing?
And so it's crazy that we are inan industry where we are not held
accountable, where we have toalways be sharpening the knife,
our skills on how to save ourclients money.
We get into this industry with ajoke of a course, we get thrown
(10:29):
into some brokerage that doesn'tknow what the hell they're doing.
And even if they do, good for you,you figured that out, they know
where to place a deal, but they'renot showing you where to get
business.
And so you're scrambling, you're
on an island, and you keep ongoing.
And you keep on plugging.
(10:51):
And then guess what, it comes up
to renew your license.
And you take a two year course.
And you say, or every two years,you take a 40 minute multiple
choice question.
I've done so many of these.
I don't even know what was in thething.
You're just like speed reading andlike B, C, A, D, E, F, right?
(11:12):
There's no strategies in there tohelp you save your client money,
to be an expert on what you do.
And then you pay your 750 and you
pay the cash cow and you carry on,you back out in the wilderness and
you've got a pocket knife andyou're starving and you're like,
where the frick do I go?Should I eat that berry?
I don't know.
It looks wild to me.
Let's let Johnny over here eat it.
(11:33):
Right.
And we'll see what happens to him.
And you're sitting there going, I
don't know, where do we get thedeals?
What do we do?What do we do?
Oh, 30 B. I wouldn't work with us.
This industry sucks.
It's only a matter of time, right?And you start spiraling.
And that's where we're at rightnow.
That's where we're at.
And unfortunately, the industry is
not going to help you.
All of you are on an island.
(11:56):
And the ones who have made it sofar, you've figured some things
out and you've been resourceful,which has been great.
But you still have to keep goingand up in your game.
A lot of us just sit on our handsand we wait for deals.
And then the deal comes in and wehave a conversation and we get an
application and we lose the deal.
And we're sitting there going, oh
shit, this sucks.
This industry sucks.
(12:16):
The banks are screwing us.
It's not the case.
Up your game.
I have a hard time referring
people out in this industry.
There's only so many people I
would actually refer people andput my name on it too, because I
know they've their game.
I know they are absolute experts
at what they do and they will showthe client how to save money.
I don't care about getting itfinanced.
I'm not talking about that.
If you're an underwriting ninja,
phenomenal, great, good for You'reyou.
going to get some deals I'm done.
(12:37):
not talking about If that.
you're an underwriting ninja,phenomenal, great, good for you.
You're going to get some dealsdone.
I'm talking about the people whereit's me against CIBC, RBC, show me
how to sit, show me the money.
Jerry Maguire style.
How are we going to do it?But a lot of you just sit back and
you're like, no. And then you endup inevitably battling it out,
which you're going to lose ninetimes out of 10.
(13:01):
Once in a while, you win, you cutall your commission out, you throw
in legals, you throw in this andyou leave it and you're stressed
out and then you bring that home.
And then you don't know where the
money is coming from, but insteadof trying to up your game and be
better, more of an expert.
How can I strategically get better
and not have conversations aboutproduct and price?
(13:22):
I'm inevitably going to have someof those conversations.
But how do I figure out a way togo after the people who aren't
being pitched, who aren't beingsent offers, the renewals and the
purchases?How do I go after the refinances?
People are sitting there thinkingthey're good.
How can I explain to them there'sa better way to do X, Y, and Z?
There's a better way to increaseyour net worth, to retire quicker,
to be mortgage-free faster, to getmore money from CRA to pay your
mortgage off, to do X, Y, Z.
(13:44):
That's what I need to do because
the people who are doing that arenot having the same conversations
you are over here.
Where you're grinding away,
getting extremely frustrated, andyou're frustrating everybody
around you.
So, unfortunately, that's the
industry we're in.
Where you are on a freaking
island.
You are.
Nobody is sitting there teachingyou these advanced strategies now
obviously i have a coachingcompany i have a training company
we do some of this stuff that'snot why i'm here talking to you
(14:07):
about this this is me just goinglike i recognized in my career
halfway through that i don't wantto be the person that does that
and i'm trying to always sortthrough 40 things to find the good
five or six deals and haveunderwriters on my team and
fulfillment and call intake peopleand manage four or five people and
all their personalities andpayroll to sort through all the
shit to find the people that I canhelp.
(14:29):
I'm just going to go find thepeople I love working with.
And it's going to be around doinga refinance.
They need me to get to where theywant to go.
And I'm going to point out youhave a problem, a problem they
don't realize yet.
And if I get good at that, then
(14:50):
they will work with me for thepremium.
Because they can go to RBC, butthey don't get me.
So you've heard me talk about allthis in the avatar.
And this is just me sitting in theback.
I'm in the back eating popcorn.
I'm eating popcorn and I'm seeing,
and here's the thing.
(15:11):
I can't save everyone.
I cannot save everyone.
I can't.
I'm not even going to save any ofyou on this call or this podcast.
I'm not.
It's not what this is about.
This is about just, I want you togo into this with eyes wide open.
Right?This isn't anyone else's This is
about I want you to go into fault.
(15:34):
this with eyes wide just, right?
open, This isn't anyone else'sfault.
It's not your team your brokeryour you the licensing lead, body.
owner, network, know, It's it'syour like, fault.
it's, Everything comes back to youmuch like a deal itself.
It's interesting.
We had, I was on a training call
and a guy came on who I have madrespect for and he came in and we
were talking about the strategycall.
So this is when you have a livedeal, like it's actual refinance,
(15:57):
ready to go, submit to a lender,or here's the APS MLS, let's jump
on a call.
And you jump in, I walked him
through how we did it, where we'dwalk him through the budget and
then we'd show him differentoffers from different lenders on
the paper, we'd get them down tolike one option to choose from.
And he brought up a point, he'slike, Hey, Ryan, because of where
we're at right now, early in thepre approval process that when I
first pre approved him, I sendthem the budget and outline the
(16:20):
offers for them.
Like, here's what you're pre
approved for.
Here's all your numbers.
I actually put the side I go,here's my pre approval for you.
Here's RBC.
And he's like, so I actually if
that side.
I here's go, my pre-approval for
you.
Here's RBC.
And he's so I if that's theirlike, I find out actually, who
they're banking with.
(16:40):
bank, And then I here's what we're
seeing with go, RBC.
This is their offer if you went
there.
And his rationale I don't was,
want them going into the bank.
I'm just going to show them the
rate already.
He says, so it's far, been
working.
And I'm it's interesting.
like, OK, So there's two thingswith this.
It's interesting because I get it.
To some degree, I like it.
I'm going to throw, I know youbank with RBC, Tom.
That's why I threw that here, RBC,right beside my pre-approval.
(17:01):
And you can see the interest rate.
I think that's too early to have a
conversation because it's still apre-approval and they might not
buy for seven months, right?I encourage them to go on.
But here's the thing.
You've already, from day one,
turned the conversation back toprice and product because you're
showing what they have and whatyou have.
And the only difference you'reshowing is the interest rate.
So that's my major flaw with thatidea.
But this just tells me, and thisis a smart broker, by the way,
(17:22):
knows what he's doing, thinksoutside the box, love how he does,
how he brokers.
He's going to that.
So I'm like, what's the averagemortgage broker going to?
I'm like, oh God, this is, this isgoing to be bad.
This is going to be bad.
You are going to get swallowed up
and spit out.
And so I always come back to, man,
change how, the conversation.
That's all you should swallowed up
and spit And out.
so I always come back to, how man,
change the conversation?That's all you should be trying to
(17:45):
figure out.
How do I change the conversation?
What are my 10 questions?I might not go through them all.
There might be two, three, four,five.
Maybe I use two here, three here,four there.
I've given you so many of thesequestions, but the ones I'm seeing
who are crushing it now are theones who are changing the
conversation.
Now, would you rather work with
people who didn't real thoughtthey were good with their
(18:06):
mortgage, you present a scenarioto them, and they go, huh,
interesting.
And guess what the outcome is your
mortgage free four years faster,payments don't increase.
Do you want to talk?And they're like, yeah, let's
talk.
Boom, you present it to them, you
get their application.
You run through.
You're going to save them$200,000, $80,000, $300,000
because you've learned thestrategy.
You've learned how to sell it.
You've learned how to position it.
(18:28):
You've learned how to take hooksout of it.
You've learned to talk about thatand only that.
What do you think is going tohappen?
That's who you're going to beworking with.
It's going to change theconversation.
Could they go back to the bank?Sure.
If you're not going to execute anyof the plan for them, right?
I'm not going to lay it out likestep by step.
I'm going to go, hey, this is theplan.
So we talked about a plan in ourlast training, and it's called a
ladder strategy.
And other people call it a cascade
(18:49):
strategy.
And it's not my strategy.
It's what I've learned, right?Some of these things I come up
with myself and put into practiceand I talk about and train on.
This one I did not, but we aregoing to train on.
We are building tools around it.
But I'm going to lay out very
quickly what the strategy is.
And it's up to you to decide if
you think that would be a greattool to have in your toolbox.
(19:10):
It's something we're going to beteaching on, I think, September
11th.
We have a renewal boot camp, a
virtual one.
Yeah, you don't have to fly
anywhere.
You don't have to meet us.
Do it virtually.
We're going to do it.
We're going to give you three,four strategies you can use, not
just for renewal, but at refinanceand purchases and all that stuff.
(19:31):
So this is a cascade one.
I'm going to fly through it fast.
Before I do, this podcast isbrought to you by H2O with a
little salt in there for someelectrolytes.
H2O with a little salt in therefor some electrolytes.
so let's say it's Okay, anuninsured deal, and let's just say
the loan devalues whatever, 70%.
Okay, I'm just going to use easy
math.
Let's go 80%.
80%, you set them up $500,000mortgage.
Okay, put them in a step program.
Now they pay down the mortgage,
and let's say after the first yearthere and let's is, say you put
(19:53):
them in a step Now program.
they pay down the And mortgage.
let's say after the first yearthere is, and let's say you put
them in a five-year fixed, this isgoing to allow you to get all the
benefits of a fixed plus interestrates are coming down.
So you're going to be able to getlower interest rates as well.
And we can also get your paymentslower as well.
If you need that extra cashflowthroughout your five-year term,
(20:14):
they're going to be like, yeah, Iwant all that.
All the benefits of all of it,zero downside.
Yeah.
I'm going to show you how.
So half a million dollar mortgage,they pay down there.
Let's just say I'm using numbershere.
They pay their mortgage down$30,000.
Okay.
So they have 30,000 becomes
available on the home equity line.
So at the end of year one, you
have in your calendar, you reachout and you go, Hey, it's time to
do this now for this year.
(20:34):
They go and they take the 30K
that's available on the HELOC.
Doesn't matter what the interest
rate is on the HELOC, does notmatter.
They take it and they prepay themortgage down.
So instead of 470, because we wentfrom five, paid it down to 470
after year one, you're going toprepay it down to 430 or 440.
Okay.
And you'll carry, so 440 at the
five-year fixed number, and you'llhave 30K in the HELOC.
(20:56):
And then you're going to go in,you're going to lock the HELOC
number, the 30K in the HELOC intoa four, you're going to align it
with the remaining term into afour-year fixed.
Because the four-year fixed hascome down.
The fixed rates have come downover that year.
That's when this strategy works.
So you start dollar cost averaging
in lower interest rates.
Then year two, you do the same
thing.
And year three and year four.
And then guess what?If they want lower payments
because if something came up, X,Y, Z, lost a job, need cash or
whatever, because it's with thepreferred lender you have, you can
(21:18):
re-amortize the payments.
You can bring the payment back up
to 30 years.
But they're getting all these
interest rates averaged in lowerinterest rates.
And if I talk too fast there, goback and listen.
So imagine you had some of those60% loan to value.
They're going to, out of the gate,after year one, they're going to
be able to maximize theirprepayment privilege.
So in that example I gave you,let's just say they had 300K
(21:39):
mortgage, and they had a 200K oreven 100K HELOC.
Well, 20% prepayment on the 300,that's 60 pulled a 60 000 off the
heloc they would have paid it downas well but you get what i'm
saying right this wasn't a podcaston teaching you the inner workings
of this stuff this is stuff wetrain on and teach on and coach on
this stuff that everyone on myteam and yeah i said my team and
i'll talk about that next montheveryone on my team is going to
(22:01):
know this strategy inside out.
This is part of, as a team lead,
coaching and mentoring onstrategies showing you how to save
the client money and change theconversation from product and
price to restructuring debt andhow they win.
This is what we should belearning.
But instead, we're not.
We've been bamboozled into
learning all these other lenderproducts.
And we've been thrown into lunchand learns and trips and go to
this event and go over here and dothis and these golfing days and go
(22:23):
do that.
And it's just like, it's like
drugging us.
We're like, ah, so many products,
so awesome.
And then you're like, but I have
no clients.
I have no clients and I'm not even
an expert.
I'm an expert at understanding
some of these products and whereto place a deal once in a while
and which lender to go with, whichis a part of our job description.
So that's cool.
But I'm not an expert at saving my
client money.
I'm an expert at getting an
(22:44):
approval that I'll ultimatelylose.
Ah, there should be like somelight bulbs going off and on here.
There should be.
They're going off for me.
So this is what I wanted to talkabout.
I'm going to keep talking aboutthat here and there.
Oh, man, I don't know if there's amoral to the story here.
You know, don't hate the player.
Hate the game.
You know, there's a moral to thestory here you know donate the
(23:08):
player hate the game you knowthat's kind of where i go with
this this isn't their thing thisis a you thing as i tell my kids
all the time this is a you thingum but and i'm here to help i'm
here to help you figure it outthough but this isn't you thing
it's nothing else okay the reasonyou only have so much money your
bank account is because of you.
It's not because RBC gave your
(23:30):
client $5,000.
We had a call like this on one of
our last training.
And you'll know who you are if
you're listening and it's nothingagainst you.
This is like 99% of brokers arelike this.
It is, hey, I lost the deal and Igot undercut and I lost my 30, 40
basis points.
(23:51):
So I always reverse engineer that.
And they're like, Ryan, what couldI have done?
And I'm like, well, I don't knowexactly how we got here.
But if I reverse engineer it, andI go, okay, what sort of
handholding did you do?Did you present?
Did you I go right to thebeginning?
I go, okay, did you tell them thatyou're going to ask for a
(24:13):
commitment to work with you andget their word?
Did you show them snippets of whatyou do?
Did you present after thepre-approval certain scenarios
where they might be able to savemoney on their taxes or top up
their RSPs or pull money out toinvest here or write stuff off
because you did this here or theladder down strategy here?
Like, did you present that stuff?And then did you actually ask for
(24:35):
the commitment?And did they tell you, yeah,
you're our guy, you're our girl,let's go.
And then they go out and shop.
And then did you jump on a
strategy call with them, whereyou're eye to eye with them, and
you're going through the finalbudget, and you're answering, and
they're coming up going, hey, RBCis giving me this now.
And you're like, cool, remember,you gave your word.
Plus, we're also going to be usingthis strategy here.
And so we're going to make thatmoney back.
And then some plus you get me in,like, have you done all that?
And the answer is always no. Orit's, I did this or this, but I
(24:58):
didn't do that, that, that.
So I tell you, most of the times
when you lost the deal, you lostit at the beginning.
You had already lost it.
You were always going to lose that
deal, right?So that's a process thing you need
to pick up at the beginning.
I'd rather know if I'm going to
work with this client in the firsthalf hour or not.
And so, but I have to arm myselfwith these expert strategies.
And if I'm not, then what am Idoing?
(25:19):
I'm just pushing paper, walkingaround going, I've got 30 lenders.
Come work with me.
I'll get a deal done.
But you can get one betteryourself if you walk into the
branch, even though you're not anexpert.
But I'm an expert.
I'll get deals done for you,
right?Like when you say that out loud,
it's actually pretty embarrassing.
It's kind of like, oh yeah, yeah,
I get it, right?And so I'm a little spicy on this
(25:40):
one.
You can tell.
And it's, it's been a bill not fora bit, right?
And I saved the spiciness forthis.
So I want to leave you with that,okay?
I'm going to end this podcast.
I hope you got some from that.
I hope you're just signing up yourgame and not just renewing your
license every two years and takingthat course.
I hope you're actually looking forways to save your clients money
(26:02):
and not all maximize prepaymentprivileges, right?
And I'll do that.
Like the people who figured it
out, they're not having theproblems you are, but they've
upped their game.
Okay.
Takes time, time to do that.
And the will that you want to do
and get better at it.
I don't know any other career
where you don't have toconsistently up your game.
Like FAs, they're constantly beingshown new strategies.
They're constantly doing, goingthrough training, shown new
strategies.
They're constantly doing going
through training, very extensivetraining.
They're constantly having newcertifications.
We are not.
(26:22):
It's complete bullshit.
But this is the world we chose tobe in.
As my wife said, this is a gongshow.
That's it, kids.
Peace out.
you
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