September 26, 2024 • 51 mins
In this episode, I'm interviewed by Brandon Love and Tom Moffat for their podcast, Commission Breath. Both successful Mortgage Brokers from Burlington, Ontario, Tom and Brandon also run the Tango Ontario brokerage, which is what my new venture, Wiley Mortgage Team, is under.
We discuss: → What's keeping me busy today, my partnership across businesses with Jason Henneberry, and why I stopped brokering while my business was at it's peak. → Why I started the Wiley Mortgage Team, the first thing that happens when you join my team, and what you should be looking for when you join a team/brokerage. → The mass influx of coaching in the mortgage industry, what Broker's aren't learning to do, and determining what type of stress you want to have as a Broker. → The #1 focus you should have in your business, how to vet potential Realtor partners, why you should go deep on current referral partners, and what I would focus on if he started his mortgage business over again (Realtors or social media).
Tom and Brandon's Email: experts@northshoregroup.ca
Commission Breath Podcast: @CommissionBreath
Commission Breath YouTube: @CommissionBreath
Commission Breath Instagram: @commission.breath
To sign up for live events and coaching, visit: www.iamryanwiley.com
What is Strategy Hub? Visit here>>> https://get.mystrategyhub.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
(00:03):
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness.
(00:26):
So now I want to distill all thatinformation, all the things I've
learned from that and bring itdirectly to you in a simple to
understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom Moffitt
and our good buddy and partnerRyan Wiley.
Ryan was one of my first coachesjumping into the mortgage space
(00:46):
and I learned a ton from him andit's great to come full circle and
be collaborating on stuff withTango now.
In today's episode we're going topull back the curtain on a bunch
of stuff we want to chat about.
What's going on in the coaching
space, what's going on with otherbrokerages, what's going with Team
Wiley, social media.
We're going to kind of bob and
weave through a bunch of differenttopic points, but we've got a
(01:07):
master here to come along for thejourney.
So thanks for joining us, Ryan.
Hey, thanks Ryan.
Hey, thanks guys.
Always a pleasure, man.
I love seeing you guys' faces.
Thanks for having me.
So what's keeping you busy today,Ryan?
What is key?Oh my goodness.
Open-ended question.
I know the answer.
Yeah.
Over the past two, three years,
I've really been focusing on justdistilling down what I do every
(01:28):
day.
And right now it's in three
things.
And it's going to stay these three
things for the foreseeable future.
So we've got Strategy Hub, which
co-founder with Jason Henneberry.
We can talk more about that later.
That's a training platform.
We have over 500 students in that
right now, which we're jackedabout because it's only been one
year.
It hasn't been one year yet.
Number two with the VIP Club,that's our database marketing
(01:49):
company I've had for probablyfive, six years.
Jason is a partner with me on thatas well.
And we have, I think we're in the7,800 agent range and that's
monthly emails we send out on yourbehalf.
And then number three is the mostrecent And that's one.
monthly emails we send out on yourAnd behalf.
then number three is the mostrecent one.
And that is Team Wiley.
I have officially launched my own
mortgage team, as you guys know,because it's under your brokerage.
Go figure.
We're very happy you decided to
make us your home.
(02:09):
I'm happy too.
We're excited to see the thingsyou've got cooking because it's
definitely a unique model comparedto what the Canadian broker space
is used to.
And I'm just curious, like you've
had all of these ventures afterbrokering, you've got Strategy
Hub, you've got VIP Club, mostlycoaching based, like what made you
veer into the team based aspectside of things?
(02:31):
Well, I wanted to solve twoproblems.
One was a problem for me and onewas a problem for other brokers.
Talked to a lot of brokers andover the years, what's the number
one problem at your brokerage?I ask that question all the time.
And you get some of the typicalanswers like, I don't get access
to lenders or this or that.
And those are one-offs here and
(02:51):
there.
But the biggest problem, the
biggest answer I got, the mostcommon answer I got is, Ryan, I
don't know how to get from 10million to 29.
I don't know how to get from 15 to30.
Or I'm at 50, but I'm working 70hours.
How do I pull back my time?There's no one at the brokerage
that can help me with that.
And so they might have a mentor
(03:13):
there, but that mentor can only goso deep because typically the
mentors or the team lead to thebroker owners running their own
book of business.
So they're a competing broker and
they're being pulled in 18 milliondirections.
And they might not even have theskill set to articulate to you how
to get in the day to day from 10million to 25 million.
Whereas for the past couple ofyears, that's all I've been doing.
(03:34):
I've been coaching hundreds andhundreds and hundreds of brokers
on how to do that.
So I'm sitting here going, geez, I
can solve that problem.
Part two of that was the problem.
It's that, and then I don't thinkI'm getting enough value for my
split.
And that's a combo of your split
to the house.
So if you're 80-20, 20 goes to the
house, what am I getting for my 20points?
(03:55):
And then also the monthly fee.
I'm paying this monthly fee, this
advertising fee.
I don't really know what I get
from that.
I'm not sure.
Is it a desk fee?I'm really not entirely sure.
So there's not enough value,perceived value from the agent,
and they don't have thehandholding or mentorship to know
how to grow their business.
So those two problems, I'm like, I
(04:15):
can solve that.
I can do that.
I'm going to start my own team.
And then the second problem I'm
solving, I said there was two.
One was perceived value packaged
with mentorship.
I'm going to solve that.
Part two was a me problem, was I'mcoaching people one-on-one and
people are paying me $500 an hour.
And I have a lineup of people and
I coach them for three hours.
(04:36):
And then they go off and they go,
they just go, they go out thereand they start doing their thing
and they may or may not come back.
But if they would have come back
three months later, then I canshow them more.
But sometimes life happens, youdon't come back.
And then maybe they go from 10 to17 million.
Well, who benefits from that longterm?
(04:58):
Long term, it's the broker ownerwho did nothing in that scenario
outside of give them a place tohang their license and answer a
phone call or a text once in awhile or an email.
And so I'm like, geez, I shouldbenefit from that.
If I'm going to show you how to gofrom 10 to 25 million, I want to
benefit from that long term.
And I can actually show you how to
(05:18):
get even higher than that becauseyou're going to be forced in the
nicest way possible to work andcollaborate with me ongoing, which
you'll want to because it's partof the package deal.
So by starting Team Wiley, it'ssomething that does not exist in
our industry.
Nobody has this model.
If you do, hit me up.
I'd love to see what you're doing,
but nobody does.
Some people have training, but
it's usually around underwriting.
And even if you have some sales
training, I don't know how good itis, but even if you have sales
(05:41):
training, no one's coming intoyour business one-on-one with
mentoring, showing you what to do.
if Do this, do this, do this.
I'm here.
You're at the front of the line.
So that's the model there issomething we're trying
experimenting.
I know it's going to work.
This is a 10, 15, 20 year play.
This will work and it will disrupt
a little bit of what's going onthere.
I'm in a unique position where Ican actually deliver all of that.
(06:02):
And at the't have your own haveyour own business.
Yeah.
So at the end of the day, sales
and marketing is everything.
Like without it, you don't have
the leads coming in.
You're not closing any loans.
So I see that gap in the industryas well.
Like you alluded to the fact thata lot of broker owners and team
leads, they might be successful intheir business because they've
been around for 15, 20 years.
They have their own book of
(06:23):
business with their past The leadsclients.
just kind of flow in for Theyclose it them.
when they come They haven for in.
20 They 15, have their years.
own book of business with theirpast clients.
The leads just kind of flow in forthem.
They close it when they come in.
They haven't prospected in years.
So that side of the business isreally missing from that aspect.
Or you have someone signed up toyour team or your brokerage or
(06:44):
whatever, because they came therethinking they were going to get
all this gory support.
And then little did they know that
the broker owner is running theirAnd book.
then you're like, I thought oh,you were going to get all this
gory support.
And then little did they know that
the broker owners run in theirbook.
And then you're like, Oh, Ithought you were going to be
around.
I'll help you package a deal here
and there.
Yeah.
But how do I get business?Oh yeah.
No, just talk to people, just talkto people.
And that's a common theme.
And so there's a lot of people at
brokerages in bad scenarios thatare being let down in that
scenario.
They're coming in with unrealistic
expectations because it was setastronomically high and the team
(07:04):
was never going to be able todeliver.
Or you have broker owners who aregreat and they're great people.
They're all great people.
Most of them are good people.
They're not doing it on purpose.
They just have to run their life.
But you come in and then they go,oh, don't worry, I'll take care of
you.
And then they bring in a mentor.
They bring in a mentor.
I like the air quotes today.
I they're going to add 10 basispoints or five basis points.
will, oh, We're going to take thatoff and they're going to mentor
(07:28):
you.
The mentor doesn't know what
they're doing half the time.
They don't even have their own
book of business that they'rerunning.
They don't know what they'redoing.
They're not qualified.
They might be qualified to package
a send to a but I'm deal, nottalking lender, about that.
Talking about lead gen genmarketing, sales, soft sales like
building out your process skills,and helping build a team.
systems, I'm not talking aboutlender guidelines and packaging
(07:49):
You can hire people to do that.
deals.
Talk about all the other stuff.
So it's this janky thing that's
built up with a lot of agentsrunning around in the industry,
not having a clue how to buildtheir business.
And so I want to solve that for aselect few.
Yeah, that's the thing I found isa lot of people are just kind of
nomadic wandering kind of lost outthere in the industry.
that's the thing I found is a lotof people are just kind of nomadic
(08:11):
wandering kind of lost out therein the industry.
And the thing I like about yourmodel is, you know, obviously,
you're taking a split from peoplebecause you're providing this
value to them.
But on the brokerage side of
things, once you bring someonefrom 10 to 20 million, their split
changes within the brokerage andthey actually make that money back
up again by getting a better splitgoing that way.
So effectively, you're creatingvalue for yourself and them at the
(08:31):
same time.
And it works out to be as long as
they follow the plan, it'seffectively no cost to to them.
Bingo.
Yeah.
You win, I win.
You come in, we take three steps
back to take 10 forward.
We'll get you up to, as you
pointed out, some people are goingto come in on an 85-15 split
because of where they're at in thetier.
So with our coaching andmentoring, they're going to move
up and now they might be a 90-10and that five basis point
difference, I'm taken care of.
So you're essentially free rolling
(08:51):
it as they call, playing with thehouse's money after that.
And then you get me and my team inyour corner for the rest of your
career.
So yeah, great way to put it, man.
I never actually thought about itat that angle.
So I like that.
There's a new twist for you.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
We'll be seeing that.
He's going to look side of like
the agents maybe we can talk aboutyour agents that you have on your
(09:14):
team what's the main focus forthem obviously might differ for
each agent but the generalconsensus like what's the main
focus for to look side of like theagents maybe we can talk about
your agents that you have on yourteam what's the main focus for
them obviously might differ foreach agent but the general
consensus like what's the mainfocus for them to get more leads
today what are you focusing on forthem yep so there's a of core
(09:35):
foundations you need built in yourmortgage a of core foundations you
need built in your mortgagebusiness, and you're not going to
get them all built right away.
But we look under the hood as soon
as you join the team and we wantto identify where the holes in the
boat are, right?You've got your client journey.
(09:56):
Everyone needs a really goodclient journey.
So you know what you're doing in afile.
The client knows what they'redoing.
So that's one thing we're going tohelp you build out over time.
Your email marketing plan, 95% ofbrokers absolutely suck at this
and are missing out on massiveopportunities.
And so we're going to help youbuild an email marketing plan.
Building your brand on socialmedia.
We're going to help you with thatas well, with consistent content
and putting best practices intoplace.
Crushing your discovery call,learning that what to say, just
because you get 10 leads doesn'tmean you're going to close any of
them.
So how do you stand out from the
bank?We're going to put some advanced
mortgage strategies in front ofyou and coach you up on those so
you're not competing on price andproduct.
But the first thing out of thegate that we're going to do is
(10:18):
we're going to track your time.
We're going to go, what are your
daily non-negotiables?What are the daily things you do
that no matter how busy you get,you're working 12 files, which
very rarely people are.
You're working 12 files.
What's that half hour, 45 minutes?What's the lifeline of your
business, the daily habits you putin there?
And so we map those out forpeople.
We go, do this, do this, do this.
And we literally whiteboard it
(10:39):
out.
And it's specific for each person
because each person yeah they havelike they're more inclined they
have more referral partners thatare more entrenched with some need
more referral partners some needto build a better relationship
with the current people who sendin those one-two straggler deals
every year and so what do we dothere and then some people are
just getting started on socialsome people have content already
so what do we do there?And then some people are just
getting started on social.
(10:59):
Some people have content already.
Well, how do we leverage that inthe relationships you build?
So we put together, that's thefirst thing we do.
It's a one-on-one call with me andwe build out the daily
non-negotiable list that's custombuilt for you and your business.
Yeah.
You're speaking our You're
speaking our language, man.
We've been speaking about that a
lot lately and we're lucky.
We're fortunate enough that we're
(11:20):
always spitballing ideas andbouncing off each other.
And we have each other asaccountability partner, but not
everyone has that.
And that's the key element that's
missing right now.
I didn't realize you guys went
that deep in the fact that you'llgo through their actual referral
partners.
And obviously, you're just giving
one example, but you're seeing howmany leads each partner has sent
(11:40):
and where their main lead sourceis.
So I think that's pretty cool.
Yeah, a lot of people are trying
to get these new referral partnersout there where you have people
who are already sending youbusiness.
And so let's call it 10 agents.
And maybe two of them are sending
you majority of their business.
I was talking to a broker a couple
of weeks ago and he's like, I lostmy top referral partner, seven
deals she sent me last year.
I'm like, why?
It's like, I called her and askedwhy.
And she's like, you stoppedreaching out to me to go for
(12:01):
coffee.
We never talked anymore.
So I found someone else.
He's like, but I closed every
deal.
She's like, yeah, but I found
another person who can close everydeal.
So the relationship part wasmissed.
And so you've got these realtors,let's call them realtors for now,
realtors around you that send youa lot of business.
Well, we need to build a fencearound them with a VIP plan.
So what is our plan?So I have a seven point plan.
(12:24):
It's like, let's put this inmotion just for the VIP.
And then we have some people thatsend us one lead a month, one lead
every two months.
Do they have the capability to
send us more?Do they do enough volume that they
can send us more?If the answer is yes, and we give
you ways to figure that out, ifthe answer is yes, then let's add
them into our VIP plan for ourreferral partners.
And let's put them into thosethree, four, five, seven things we
(12:45):
do to nurture the currentrealtors.
Before we go prospect new people,let's take care of the ones that
already love us.
It's like, let's go around to our
family members before we starttelling strangers we love them and
let's make sure they're taken careof.
I feel like we made that mistaketoo.
I know I did in my book last yearwhere I tried to go and get a
bunch of new partners.
I had a few really good ones and
then they kind of fell off.
(13:07):
It was because I wasn't taking
them for drinks.
I wasn't doing all the steps
because I was trying to get moreand then trying to do other things
in the business.
And I kind of forgot the hand that
was feeding my family.
And then this year I became really
aware of it.
I got like super deep with a few
people and my life is so mucheasier now.
last year life is so much easiernow.
I just have a few partners thatsend me all of their deals.
(13:29):
Everything funds and it's likeactually enjoyable to work with
them.
And it's a radically different
experience working this year.
That's a good point, man.
And that's why a lot of brokers,man.
And that's why a lot of brokers,the ones that shit on real, I
don't want to work with realtors.
It's like, you're working with the
wrong ones.
Find the great ones.
It's spectacular.
You end up becoming good friends
with them.
Your families meet, you support
(13:50):
their business and vice versa.
There's a lot of really good
synergy, a lot of good businessideas, a lot of good stuff comes
from it.
It's just you've been working with
the wrong realtors.
Yeah, I've been thinking about
that a lot lately too.
And I think the upfront work to
not just taking on any meetingwith any realtor is something you
should consider too.
I was taking on meetings with
every realtor I could find just soI can build up this huge list
(14:10):
similar to And Brandon.
I think if I can go back and I
wanted to build up my everyrealtor I could find just so I can
build up this huge list similar toBrandon.
And I think if I can go back and Iwanted to build up my list again,
I would probably do some upfrontresearch and see if that person
actually produces and use my timemore wiser and rather go a mile
deep than a mile wide.
Quality over quantity, right?
I'll give you guys two things todo for the listeners listening.
(14:31):
Two things to do if you want tovet a realtor.
There's lots of things you can do,but these are two things I do and
coach on doing is number one, makesure they have minimum 20 Google
reviews, right?Realtors do less ends than
mortgage brokers.
So like if we have 50, it shows
you're pretty decent.
The equivalent's about 20 with a
realtor.
So 20 of those, if they don't have
(14:52):
a Google review page set up, I runfor the hills.
It tells me they're not seriousabout their business.
And then once they have, I see thereviews, then I go check them
online.
And I go check out their Instagram
or their Facebook.
And on Instagram, I'm looking and
I'm seeing how consistent, A, doesit look like you have your shit
together?Does it look like you're serious
about your brand you're puttingenergy into it and then how often
are you posting and are you makingvideos are you just doing
postcards and thinking that socialmedia or are you making videos and
I want to see that you'reconsistently putting videos out
there and if I have that andyou're doing stories you're doing
(15:15):
all that now I go okay I knowyou're doing volume I know you're
doing it you're And you're doingstories, you're doing all that.
Now I go, okay, I know you'redoing volume.
I know you're doing it.
You're serious.
You're going to appreciate the wayI'm going to prospect you the
consistent way I'm going toprospect you with custom videos,
reaching out through social,they'll have like a mutual respect
there.
(15:35):
And I just know.
And so those are the two simplethings that you can whittle that
list down to.
I like that filter.
And I think it's good to kind oflike the idea of sharpening the ax
for longer than it takes to chopdown the tree.
I think a lot of the times peopleare like, it's so hard to get a
meeting.
I'm just going to take all these
meetings.
And if your brand's banking new,
(15:56):
sure, do the 150 meetings becauseyou're going to get so good at
your pitch.
But once you're good at your
pitch, you got to pivot and gotowards finding the quality.
Find the the quality.
And another thing brokers miss out
on is they forget this isn't aforever thing.
You only need to find five rockstars.
Like once you have your rockstars, then you lock them into
(16:17):
your VIP plan where you're justtaking care of them with all the
things you're doing.
And then you're done.
You don't have to prospectrealtors.
And if your social is good anddecent, realtors will start coming
to you and you could sort of siftthrough and filter them out and
choose if you want to take someoneelse on.
So this is only a moment in timeplan.
So if you were to go back on dayone, Ryan, would you focus on
realtors or would you focus onsocial first?
(16:37):
Realtors, without a doubt.
Instant offense, quickest way to,
I'm going to leverage their trustthey've already built in other
databases, in their database, intheir client base, their marketing
dollars, their hours, kissingbabies, shaking hands.
I want to leverage that.
So now all I need to do is, I
don't even have to be a reallygood mortgage broker.
All I have to do is be really goodat relationships.
And so now my focus is not knowingall these things I need to know as
a broker.
It's how do I get that realtor to
(16:59):
like me and want to trust me andsend me a lead.
That's where my focus goes tobuilding relationships with
realtors.
And then behind the scenes, I'm
sharpening my axe, as you say, andI'm getting better at being a
mortgage broker, but I'm nottrying to be a mortgage broker, a
really good one, and then goprospect.
I'm going to focus onrelationships.
So I would do both at the sametime.
But first and foremost, I wouldprospect realtors.
(17:21):
Gotcha.
You wouldn't say, okay, you know
what, I'm just going to maybe putthe social on hold, just focus on
realtors, get to maybe a certainvolume or a certain handful of
core realtors, then start social?You're saying you would do it
alongside that and go all in onboth?
Yeah, I've got time.
You're telling me I just started.
What else am I doing?What's my day look like?
I'm going to do a post, minimumone post a day.
I'll do it on Facebook, Instagram,maybe LinkedIn.
(17:43):
I'm not sure.
I'll probably just start Facebook,
Instagram.
It's very cohesive there.
Easy to do.
I'll do a couple of stories a day.
I'll pump that out consistentlyover and over and over again with
show, don't tell videos, justexplaining what I'm doing in the
day, showing how I'm helpingpeople, stories over and over and
over.
And I'll prospect realtors behind
the scenes as well with customvideos through DM.
And that model there, there's noway that model doesn't work.
(18:06):
There's no way.
I'm seeing it work right now with
agents who are one year in thegame going to close 25 million in
their first year.
And that's what they're doing.
Yeah, I think as long as you'reconsistent, you can get to that 10
to 25 million out the gates.
It's not rocket science.
You just have to stick to theplan.
And the problem is that people dotwo months of the plan and then
(18:27):
they're like, oh fuck, I don'tfeel like doing the plan today.
And then it kind of gets a badhabit.
It falls apart.
And three months later, they're
like, okay, I'm going to stick tothe plan now.
And it's kind of like going intothe gym or, or anything like that.
If you're not consistent with it,you never hold onto the results.
You might see it for a glimmer.
(18:47):
I might look good on the beach,
but in the middle of the winter,beer belly is probably back again.
That's just the reality of life ifyou're not consistent with it.
Yeah, you got it, man.
We all know this too, right?
It's not like we're coming up withcrazy things.
We just have to be reminded and weall know.
So you asked me what I do.
That's what I do, man.
And I just get used to rejectionand I would just make sure I
(19:09):
understand my why that's powerfulenough.
Push through.
So obviously we're throwing out a
lot of ideas of what people we'rethrowing out a lot of ideas of
what people should be doing andthere's no shortage of people
telling you what to do in thisspace.
I don't know.
Everyone here has probably noticed
that there's a ton of differentcoaching options that's popped up
with different courses, differentofferings.
What are you kind of seeing inthis space?
(19:31):
That's quality.
What are you seeing?
That's maybe a little bit morefluffy.
Why are you seeing this massinflux of people starting to offer
coaching?Yeah.
Oh yeah.
It's funny when volumes dip down,
everyone thinks they're a coach,right?
It's like there are phenomenalcoaches in the industry, but
there's also a lot of, right,whatever.
I'm not here to go, hey, they'renot good and they're good.
But it is just interesting whenvolumes go down, instead of
focusing on how to get morebusiness in your own book, you go,
(19:53):
I'm going to teach other people.
It's like, well, it's that old
thing.
Like if the leads are that good,
why don't you just work themyourself?
Why are you selling them?Right.
It's kind of that same thing.
It's interesting.
So obviously, Scott Peckfordexited the coaching industry.
Phenomenal coach.
When it started, Bricks.
He's building that.
And I believe he's coming back I
in.
knew in a matter of time, and he
should.
He's good for the industry.
We're better off with him in it.
Jim Terlucas is coming in.
He's always been there.
(20:13):
I did some things with him and
he's coming in.
I think him and Scott are doing
stuff, which is great.
He's phenomenal.
You can learn from him.
He's like that old school guy, got
it down the words, how to crushthe discovery call, how to find,
you know, sniper rifle into yourdatabase type stuff, social media
over here.
They're like oil and water, right?
So that's like, I'd love to havean open debate with Jim on that
(20:33):
about the merits of social media,running a business versus what
he's doing.
He's got a very unique model, but
he's a phenomenal coach.
I've seen his training.
It was part of what I was doing atone point.
He's great.
You've got Dustin Woodhouse.
I don't know what he's doing.
I think he's either going to go
brokering.
I think he's coaching, maybe not
coaching, maybe more of aplatform, speaking on stages and
(20:54):
stuff like that, because I knowthat's really up his alley and
he's really good at it.
Not sure exactly what he's doing
there, but all that is good.
Everybody in the industry, and
it's a very small industry, havingthose guys in there, they need to
be in there because agents have, Iwant you to have all these
options.
I need you to have different
(21:15):
voices to go learn from anddifferent things.
And it's all part of the journeyof you becoming an awesome
mortgage agent and making moneyfor your family.
Outside of that, I know there'ssome one-off stuff going on.
Nothing I would actually say isworth doing, but all that stuff
there.
And then you've got like the
underwriting coaching and whatnot.
And you've got Jill Mullering who
does that, the mortgage nerd withNewbie Group.
And she's really good.
(21:36):
She has more in her brain on
underwriting than a lot of uscombined.
She's great.
Her coaching is always going to be
there.
I think it's an exciting time.
We were there.
Things kind of dwindled down a
little bit.
And now we're coming back where
there's people coming out.
I think it's an exciting time.
And I'm super excited to see whateveryone's doing.
Yeah, I think it's good to havethe variety there because everyone
has their own little niche andtheir expertise in certain things.
(21:58):
Like you talked about with Jim andthe old school approach and that
versus social.
Like, I think it's good to have
all these different options, but Ido agree you see all these other
ones that pop up for a couplemonths at a time.
You're like, I wonder why this islike happening right now when
everything is very quiet in themortgage industry.
Like, that's just the firstthought that comes to my head.
Maybe they're slow in their ownbook.
And so they're thinking of how canI make more money this way?
(22:21):
So it's funny you thought thattoo.
Everyone wants like the residualincome coming in.
I have a course now, which iscool.
I get I can respect someone tryingthings.
And then, you know, you've gotschools with Hermosi coming out.
And so a lot of people think theycan go build this community of
people that are going to pay themmoney.
It's easy.
easy.
Yeah, it's not easy.
We have a community of over 500
people.
(22:41):
Each of them are paying us
monthly.
It's a lot of freaking work and
you have to continuously deliver.
It's a lot.
And so I just sort of laugh andgo, I hope you make it because I'm
all about supportingentrepreneurs.
But it's way harder than you thinkit is.
To deal with yourself.
And we found too that like, we've
been guilty of this ourselveswhere we try doing Leadvine and
(23:01):
doing different programs outsideof doing our own book.
And we thought our book will keephumming along at the same time.
But the reality was it actuallydoing that shit really hurt our
book for a couple of months to thepoint where we were like, shit, we
got to kill this thing now beforeit goes too far.
And we ended up killing our goldenegg trying to get something new
rolling.
And ignore your referral partners
that were putting food on thetable, like you referenced
(23:23):
earlier, right?Exactly.
Because you're like, ooh, likeyour highest and best use of your
time, if you're an agent, iswithout a doubt in your own book.
Without a doubt.
Yeah.
There's no argument you can giveme there.
It is.
But if you want to scratch an itch
and do something off the side ofyour desk, sure.
But call it what it is.
If you're a broker owner or if
you're a team lead and you'rerunning a book of business, I've
talked to a lot of team leads likethis.
(23:45):
If I could go back in time, theysaid I would scrap the team model,
but I can't because I don't wantto let people down.
But I work double the hours andmake half the money.
That's true.
Double the hours and make half the
money with running a team.
And the same thing with running a
team and the same thing withrunning a course off the side
here's what happened a lot ofpeople watch scott peckford build
from island b and his podcast andthe facebook group and he did
courses and he did a lot of thisstuff and he makes it look easy
(24:08):
right he has a special talentright he's very good at that he's
very good at the marketing likehe's built platforms he's very
good at the marketing.
Like he's built platforms.
He's very good at that.
And I think a lot of people have,
cause I know I could list off aname of people.
I'm not going to, but have dippedtheir toe in and tried it.
And then they're like, oh shit, noone showed up or that was hard or
(24:30):
I can't deliver or, oh, I got todo that again tomorrow.
Yeah.
So Scott was the first guy.
He was the trailblazer in there.
He was so good at it.
He made it look so easy.
And then I've been in there and
now I'm learning and I learnedsome things from him and I taught
him some things.
And I'm like, yeah, I already know
it's not easy, but it's an all inthing, which is why I'm all in.
(24:50):
And I have been for a while.
Yeah.
And And you're kind of a uniquecase where you exited like your
personal book at its peak.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I
think you were just over a hundredmil at the time of exiting
personal brokering.
Yeah. 90 Yeah. 90 mil, 90 mil.
Yeah.
So what was the reasoning behind
you wanting to make that shiftwhen you're making the most money
ever at that point?Quite easy.
I didn't want to get out of bed inthe morning.
And so I wanted to get out threeyears before that.
(25:10):
And my wife could see I was veryunhappy, very stressful.
And being a broker is stressful.
It is stressful, right?
Especially at that volume andyou're pumping out 180 deals a
year and really stressful, eventhough I had fulfillment, which
was fine and she was fulfillment.
But she said, just for three
years, can you buckle down?Because I had a lot of ventures.
I did a lot of things from clientcaller to some mini little
coaching course stuff to ran anAmazon store to running a Facebook
ad agency.
I got all these things.
(25:31):
Like I was trying to get out ofthe broker space.
And she's like, Ryan, you're sogood at it.
Your clients love you.
Can you just commit for three
years, make a bunch of money forthe family and then go do what
makes you happy.
And I was like, deal.
And I shut down everything else.
And the only thing I kept going,
which was five years ago, or theonly thing I started was my
podcast.
So that scratched the itch for me
was one day I just started apodcast, me driving around a
vehicle.
Five years ago, I started that.
(25:52):
At the same time, I started aFacebook group, but I didn't do
anything with the Facebook group.
I did nothing.
I wish I did.
It was a marketing Facebook group,
but I did with the podcast.
And here we are.
I just relaunched the Facebookgroup, which it'll be a big
marketing community for mortgagebrokers in Canada.
But yeah, that's what it was.
And then it was easy for me to
jump ship because I was already,it was part of my master plan to
(26:13):
get out.
And I know with every fiber in me,
doing what I'm doing now,coaching, mentoring agents, and
then having my own team, like I'mgood.
I feel like my cup is full.
I wake up, I know who I'm serving.
I know what I was put on thisplanet to do.
I'm looking nothing but straightahead.
No side.
I'm not getting diverted with any
ideas.
It's do, do, do.
I just deflect.
It's a very peaceful feeling to
have.
I'm at peace with a lot of things.
(26:34):
It's really cool.
I'm there.
And the team Wiley was the finalpiece of the puzzle.
That's awesome.
I love that because so many times
you see people who get to, youknow, that volume and all of a
sudden the golden handcuffs are onand they're like, oh, I'm going to
do another three years.
I'm going to add another three
years after that.
And it's just, they end up hating
(26:55):
their life and never find thatnext fulfilling step because the
money's so good.
So it's quite impressive that
you're actually willing to justwash your hands, leave that on the
table and go to the next thing.
So kudos to you for that.
Well, that's the nice part thenice part about this industry.
Like you don't have to be in itforever.
You can literally, you know, getwhatever the number is that you
want.
Like Brandon and I, we actually
(27:16):
are on our own personal financialindependence journey where we want
to just make a shit ton of moneyand not necessarily retire, but
know that we can, if we everwanted to pivot from our own
personal book of business.
And I think that's the cool part
about this industry is you canmake as much money as you want.
You don't have to be here for a 30year career.
(27:36):
You can crush it in 10 years, makeyour money and then decide to do
something else.
Bingo.
And so, yep.
And for the record, I went from a
million dollars in earnings thatyear down to 150.
Damn.
Right.
A lot of people are like, what?And so if that doesn't tell you
how committed I am, I don't knowwhat else does, man.
I don't know.
I'm assuming you're not there at
this point though, but kudos toyou for that's a huge draw, man.
(27:58):
That's 10% of what you're earning.
Yeah, it was, but I knew I had to
take 15 steps back.
But even more than that was my own
mental health, how I was showingup for my wife and my kids, my own
personal health.
You know, when I was going through
that, that point where I'mcrushing all those out, A, my
fitness wasn't on point.
B, my nutrition, I was drinking
(28:20):
more than I probably should have,you know, having wine every night
and kind of rationalizing it withit's wine time and blah, blah,
blah.
And then short temper with my
kids, not being as present as Ishould be not being there for my
wife.
And she's my best friend and just
stuff like that.
And when I got that off and I got
direction on what my purposes andwho I serve, it was like, ah, and
(28:43):
now it's like everything for me isfricking dialed in.
I am good to go.
So you think there's a way,
obviously you can reduce theamount of stress you have as a
broker, but do you think there's away where you can essentially So
you you can essentially takeyourself out of the day-to-day
files and have your team of, youhave your underwriter,
fulfillment, client carespecialist, however you want to
structure your team.
Do you think there's a way to do
that?Or do you think you're always
(29:03):
going to be dragged into thefiles?
That's a good question.
I think there's a couple of ways
you can play that.
Obviously, if you're a one-man
band or one-woman band, you needfulfillment.
Like, come on, like down paymentdocs, you don't become a better
person grinding through downpayment docs.
Like, you don't come out of thatgoing like skipping down the road,
like you're on the yellow brickroad to do off to see the wizard.
You're not doing that.
Like it just beats you down doing
(29:25):
that stuff.
So you need fulfillment.
And then when you have that, thatwas when I was able to go from
like 20 to 59, it was because offulfillment.
And that's where the 12 hourbroker came from.
So I was working 12 hours a weekdoing that cycle volume because I
had help.
So I could have just pressed pause
there.
I could have said this was great.
And that was very not stressful,but I decided to churn my book
(29:47):
more.
And also COVID was coming in and
rates are going down.
So where we were at in the
environment, my volume justspiked.
But if I could go back, it wouldbe the 40, 50 million, 12 hours a
week, one fulfillment, dialed inwith a webinar, dialed in with
email marketing.
I would be dialed in with social
and I would just be talking aboutthings all the time, but I'd be at
(30:12):
12 hours a week.
And I would only have to put out
so many fires.
I'd only have to put out one or
two fires, three fires a month asopposed to, right?
So it was all relative.
My stress levels were relative to
the volume.
Could I get another person in to
manage?Sure.
But I know brokers who have donethat.
I know brokers who had my modelwent to 200 million, 100 million.
(30:32):
Now they have a team of four orfive and now they have different
stress levels.
It's not the file they're putting
out fires that is hiring someone,trusting them, training them,
coaching them, and then stillmentoring them and then putting
out their own fires.
And now you're an HR specialist.
So the stress is always going tobe there.
It's just which stress do youwant, right?
(30:53):
Do you want the COF stress and theclient freaking out and the lawyer
going, we don't have funds on theday of closing and what's going on
stress?Or do you want the stress of
hiring and firing people anddealing with all that and running
and like building a business?I mean, if I had to pick, I'd go
with option two, but if I had topick, I'd go with neither.
But I do get what you're saying.
I think like there's that kind of
happy volume that you can hit andjust kind of have like that luxury
(31:15):
lifestyle around having enoughincome coming in from the files
you're closing to.
I think the hardest part is trying
to find that and dialing in yourclient journey to make sure you
can get there.
Yep.
Different answer for everyone too.
For sure.
And I think there's also a sweetspot where, you know, you get to a
hundred to 200 million, you addall these people.
By the time you're all said anddone with salaries and all that
(31:37):
jazz, it might actually be thesame amount of money that's left
over.
So then you have to identify, are
you building this for the moneyside of it?
Are you building this for egoside?
What is the why for this?And I think a lot of the time that
shines a light on actually whereyour priorities are.
Yeah, I know.
It's interesting you say that
because the number I gave you,that was net.
That's how I netted out on my lastyear.
(31:58):
I know brokers who have teams offour or five and you think they're
crushing it and their volumes arecrushing it, but they're netting
out four or 500K.
And you might think that's great,
but their volumes are like 130,140, 150, and they're netting out.
That's what I was netting out whenI was doing 50 mil, running eight
files a month with fulfillment whotakes majority of the work off my
plate.
I'm working 10, 12 hours a week,
(32:19):
netting out four or 500 K a year.
That's a glorious thing versus you
build a 120 empire and you backout all the stuff, even a hundred
mil.
Like, yeah.
So it's what you net.
A lot of people live in the gross
world and we've been conditionedto tell people what we earn volume
wise and blah, blah, blah, pumpour chests out.
And what are you doing?And I'm at this volume, but it's
(32:40):
like, dude, what are you nettingout, man?
Yeah.
What are you netting out?
Like, and what's your stresslevel?
And just because you're earningthat much, your volume's there,
where you're earning that muchmoney.
I'll tell you right now, you lookabout 60 pounds overweight.
You don't seem happy.
And like, you're going through
(33:00):
some shit at home with the family,but you're doing a hundred
million.
Oh, good for you.
Like that's quite the sacrifice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're going to lose 50% of that
additional gains when you you getyour divorce.
Right.
We all make choices.
So I was very cognizant of that.
And that's how I built my mall.
And it was like, I'm not lettinganything get into the fortress I
have at home.
And it was, it was getting there.
So I had to get out.
(33:21):
So we we started off this episode
talking about team structures,team leads, different aspects in
the mortgage brokerage space.
For our listeners, some people
might be wondering if they're in agood setup or if they have a good
team structure with where they'reat.
What are some things that youwould say are like the most
important line items that theyshould be looking at when it comes
to joining a brokerage or movingto a new brokerage?
(33:41):
Well, geez, there's some veryobvious ones.
One is if you don't get access toyour underwriters and BDMs, if you
can't submit deals directly,there's a problem.
There's a reason you don't haveaccess to those people.
It's probably because you're notbeing paid volume bonus.
This is still happening, kids.
Still happening, unfortunately.
I remember when I was...
People told me, hey, ryan go start
a team and then people come inunder their team and you do all
this work and you get them on yourteam and then they work for 75
basis finders fee from scotia andguess what you keep the volume
(34:04):
bonus it's your team and theysigned up for that and i'm like
what i'm like i keep the volumebonus why well because you're
doing all the work and i'm'm like,what work am I doing?
They're the ones getting the deal,putting the deal.
And I'm just maybe mentoring them.
That's a mentality.
There's a mentality, but don't letthem talk to the BRM.
(34:26):
I've had BRMs call when I had ateam.
It's a very small team, mind you,one or two agents.
When I had a team, I had BDMs callme and go, hey, Ryan, I'm about to
talk to this agent can i mentionvolume bonus and i'm like yeah i'm
like really are we still doingthat yeah so if you don't have
access to your bdm yourunderwriting you have submitted
(34:46):
that's like red flag 101 red flagnumber one okay yeah we had one
yeah we had one of thoseconversations like two weeks ago
literally two weeks ago a bdmasked that same question i'm like
yes man they can know the volumebonus.
We disclose it it all.
Another one is the scorecard,
which I think like I know atTango, we divide up the Scotia
scorecard between all the agentson the team.
I think Bricks does as well.
But I think that's one in
particular that a lot of teams andbrokerages keep to themselves just
(35:08):
because of the admin side oftrying to split all of it up?
I'm not opposed to you keeping thevolume not opposed to you keeping
the volume bonus.
I'm not opposed to you keeping the
efficiency bonus, but it has to beoutlined up front and signed off
on.
And agents are coming into this
with eyes wide open, knowingexactly in a moment where I go,
(35:29):
what do you earn?What's your split?
And forget that whole other 5%franchise staying on top that's
kind of hidden in everywhere.
What is your net split?
What do you actually get that on?You should be able to articulate
that.
If you can't on the spot, there's
a problem.
But at some point, it's your
responsibility as your ownbusiness owner.
It's not the brokerage, the teamlead.
They're running a business andyou're just falling in line.
(35:51):
What's status quo?I have to go find out.
It's crazy that we have to keephaving that conversation, but I'll
gladly do it.
Hopefully it's one person we save.
And there's been a lot of brokerowners earning a lot of money off
the backs of agents in thisindustry for a long freaking time.
And they're not doing it on the upand up.
And it's crazy.
(36:11):
Or my favorite is this.
You have a tiered system.
This is a good one for everybody
listening.
You have a tiered system within
your brokerage, which is verynormal.
Hey, I'm 75, 25 because I do 5million.
When I get to 10 million, I'm 80,20 and so on and so on up the
plan.
The brokerage should be proactive
(36:32):
and reaching out to you and going,congratulations, you made it.
You've now on the next tier.
But they don't.
Majority of them don't.
They sit there and wait for you to
come.
Months after, work up the courage
to walk into the office or sendthe email or set up a call to then
get on there and go, hey, I'm atvolume, but right?
It shouldn't be that way where youhave to go and fight for the money
you signed up for.
It's crazy.
(36:52):
So I would go check and make surewhatever your volume is, where
does it fall in line on the tier,right?
You might have moved up a notchand not even realize it.
I'd go and ask for yourcommissions by retroactive.
Yeah.
Like every pay Like every pay
period, we send all of the agentstheir year to date commissions and
it shows them exactly wherethey've got different sources from
volume, et cetera.
So you can see exactly, okay, I've
(37:14):
done $10 million and then you'reat your next level there.
It's crystal clear that way.
And I found this before, it
probably drives Tom a littlecrazy, but I'm very nitpicky on
like tracking the basis pointsthat come in the books, doing all
the spreadsheets, just becauseover the years, I found so much
money that would have been left onthe table, just from bonuses not
being paid out or missed by maybethe lender or maybe the brokerage
(37:35):
collected the money, he couldn'tquite figure out how to disperse
it.
So it just got ignored and life
moved But by combing on.
through the books't quite figure
out how to disperse So it just it.
got ignored and life moved on.
But by combing through the booksthere, I was always able to find
money for us.
Yep, reconcile.
That should be something in yourcalendar.
Once a month, you reconcilebecause just because you got paid
X, I need to reverse engineer andmake sure I got what I was
(37:58):
supposed to get.
So go into your submission
platform, find out the beeps youwere supposed to be paid, look at
your pay stub.
And it's either the lender paid
the brokerage wrong, or thebrokerage got the money and then
paid you wrong.
It's no one's fault.
It's usually, it's just humanerror here or there.
But this happened in over a 10month period.
I went back and looked and I wasout over 30K.
(38:21):
And I went back to the lender andmajority of it was one lender.
And I went back and looked and Iwas out over 30K and I went back
to the lender and majority of itwas one lender.
And I went back and said, Hey,these are the files.
And it took me, I remember it wasa whole plane ride back from
Toronto to Kelowna.
So when me and my wife came out to
(38:43):
Kelowna to test it out and checkit out on the way back, she's
like, can you please just, I thinkwe're missing money.
I said, okay, I'll do it.
So on a four and a half hour plane
ride back, I reconciled all thestuff and I came up with $30,000.
And so I wrote out the email,guess what the lender's response
was?My bad.
Okay, cool.
I don't know what I was expecting
(39:03):
to be honest, but I got paid.
I think all the trade records
started to come in, like on thatledger, like scrolling through
pages of stuff.
And I was like, oh my God.
And then some of it was thebrokerage paid me wrong on some
instances.
So I had to go track that down.
But if I don't do that, that's me.
(39:24):
I have to do that, right?
That's my...
Yeah, it comes down to Yeah, it
comes down to the agent.
You do have to have some onus on
it.
But some of it is like, it depends
on the pay stub as an example.
Like the first brokerage I was
with, the pay stub was nottransparent as to like where the
money flowed.
You spoke of the network split
(39:44):
before it gets to the actual teamlead.
And I had no idea I was beingcharged 5% on the house on top of
everything before it got to my netsplit.
I had no idea.
I'm like, why is my net pay lower
than what my actual split is?And it took me a while to figure
out because I was a new agent.
I had no idea until maybe like a
(40:05):
year in.
It was crazy.
It's still out there.
I didn't realize that either.
And I was a new either.
And I was a new agent.
I had no idea until maybe like ayear It in.
was crazy.
It's still out there.
I didn't realize that either.
And I was a producing agent.
And I was like, the math's notadding up.
We're off not a lot, but we're offa little bit.
And I was like, this is crazy thatit's not articulated with my 5%
plus tax off clearly itemized onthere.
(40:25):
Like, where's that money going?I had to do all this gypsy math.
And I was like, this shouldn't bethis way.
It's like 2020 something mortgageworld.
I'm like, oh my God.
And I'm just like, I just never
felt my interests were being takencare of in that type of scenario
when I got to fight and claw andunravel and investigate and all
that for that.
I'm like, there's gotta be an
easier way.
Why can't I just say everything?
(40:45):
Like you said, I'll ask an agent.
I'm talking to agents now all the
time.
Part of the conversation always
gets to what's your split.
And they're like, 80, 20, 90, 10.
Okay, cool.
Is that before or after?
And I'm like, let's pull up a paystub.
Let's look, let's do the math.
And they're like, oh my God, I've
already found people.
They're like, oh, I guess I'm
85-15, not 90-10.
And I'm like, oh, contraire,
you're not 85-15.
You're 84.35, 15.65 because it's
5% plus tax.
But they didn't know that because
(41:05):
it's not there and they're goingaround telling everyone they're
90-10 or they're thinking they're90-10 when really they're netting
out less than 85-15.
Yeah, it's not there and they're
going around telling everyonethey're 90 10 or they're thinking
they're 90 10 when really they'renetting out less than 85 50 yeah
it's wild and then you have theflip side too and you have
scenarios where there's a lot ofreally really they're netting out
less than 85 50 yeah it's wild andthen you have the flip side too
and you have scenarios wherethere's a lot of really honest
(41:26):
transparent people who are payingout all these volume bonuses and
stuff like that i remember thefirst time i got a volume bonus i
messaged scott it was when i wasat bricks and i was like hey man
like it's kind of awkward but likeyou guys paid me too much.
Like I'm just getting started.
So I'm happy to take it.
But like, there's an error beenmade.
I don't want to be that guy tonever come clean about it.
(41:48):
And he's like, it's a volumebonus.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
Like what's the efficiency?efficiency?
Oh, it was a volume.
It was a volume bonus.
it was a It was a volume bonus.
That was Island B mortgage pros.
Yeah.
Undertango.
Funny how Under Yeah.
Yeah.
Tango.
Funny how everything comes full
circle.
So there you go.
Those are a couple of tidbits.
There's obviously more, but we
only got so many hours in the day,but those are some big ones.
Okay.
So you obviously have a
(42:08):
partnership with us through theTango world and that's tied back
to your other partner, JasonHenneberry, who you're working
with on VIP Club, Strategy Hub,and probably have some other stuff
cooking as well.
So why don't we chat a little bit
about your partnership?Because Tom and I are big fans of
forming these alliances in theindustry that create like one plus
one equals three scenarios.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't say enough, man.
So everyone here, you'relistening.
If you don't know JasonHenneberry, as you showed, he
created Lender Spotlight,phenomenal piece of software.
He's a builder.
He's an architect.
He's an operator.
He runs Tango Financial with Dean
Larson and 400 agents, 4 billionvolume plus.
No one ever leaves Tango, by theway, which is crazy.
(42:29):
They just don't leave.
And so you guys started a
brokerage there, Tango Ontario.
You're partnered with Dean and
Jason.
I'm bringing Team Wiley in under
that brokerage in Ontario.
Like I told you, I'm at peace
right now.
I've never been this aligned on
everything in my life and it'sphenomenal.
And a lot of it has to do withHennaberry.
(42:50):
He is a guy I cold called andoffered an opportunity to with VIP
club.
And I'd been using his doc assist,
one of his services before, but Ididn't really know him.
And I called, called him with anopportunity and he jumped on it
and we became partners.
And I quickly saw how he operated.
And then I was sort of like,didn't know what I was going to do
in the coaching space as much.
(43:10):
And he had started a strategy hub
and he pitched an idea to me.
And I was like, that actually
checks a lot of the boxes.
So then I came in and partnered
with him in strategy hub.
That was about a little less than
a year ago, became partners there.
And now we've spent time together
and travel together and done allthese things.
And now mortgage team isinevitably coming under his
(43:36):
brokerage and your guys brokerage.
And so, yeah, with him, I know
what I'm getting.
I love it.
We have similar strengths, but wealso, we have other things we're
good at.
And he is an operator.
He checks a lot of boxes.
First and foremost, he's a family
guy.
I'm a family guy above everything
else.
And that's easy to say.
It's very cliche, but I actuallyfulfill that.
So to see moral compass is set,right?
He's wired the right way.
He's been building phenomenal
relationships in the industry forso many years.
He plays the long game.
I'll come to him with a thing.
Hey, what do we do?And he's like, we got this.
It's calm.
He's like, yeah, we're going to do
this.
(43:56):
And we're going to do that.
It's okay.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so he puts me at ease and atpeace with a lot of things there
too.
And I'm like, okay.
And then he does what he says he'sgoing to do.
I've never met someone so busywhere he's like, oh yeah, I'll get
that to you.
I'm thinking that's like three
days.
And like 10 minutes later, I get
an email with the thing he said.
And I'm like, that's refreshing.
Someone does what they say they'regoing to do.
I'm like, that's cool.
(44:16):
So on a lot of different levels,
and then he's just like a gooddude and we get along.
He's wired the right way for me.
And my wife loves him.
He's stayed at our house.
So it's all those things.
So he's a phenomenal partner.
Everything I'm doing from Team
Wiley to Strategy Hub to VIP Club,we're all moving in the same
direction.
And that's what I want.
(44:37):
Yeah.
Isn't it crazy how it all sprung
from one phone call?My first phone call in the call in
the industry was to Scott Beckfordto say, Hey, I've got an idea to
start a calling company.
He's like, that's on my whiteboard
right now.
Let's do it.
So we did it.
We got investors.
We pitched it.
All of a sudden we're traveling
across Canada, pitching it.
(44:58):
And then we make a bunch of calls.
And then I buy VIP club.
And then my next cold call like
that is to Henneberry to partnerwith me on VIP because I don't
know what I'm doing.
And so it's funny.
Those two, they lean into the nextone.
They came from cold calls for meputting myself out there and
going, hey, with an opportunity.
It's just crazy how that works.
(45:19):
So yeah, now here we are.
And I wouldn't be where I am
without him.
And you guys are partnered with
him.
So you see it firsthand.
But yeah, he's awesome.
So not enough good things to say
about him.
I could keep going, but I won't.
Short podcast.
But yeah, phenomenal.
Great business partner to have.
Yeah, we've noticed the same.
It's funny you said the point ofjust getting things done have yeah
(45:41):
we've noticed the same it's funnyyou said the point of just getting
things done so quickly because wehad the same thought we're like
how the fuck does this guy get somuch shit at the end of the day
it's a rain you know as get somuch shit at the end of the day
it's a rain you know as it like onthe phone with you yeah i'll send
that to you and typically if i'mon the phone with you said yeah
(46:01):
i'll send that i rethink about itlater that night or the next
morning they go oh yeah i'm gonnado that nope his thing comes in
and i'm like, Whoa, that's asuperpower.
Yeah, it is a superpower.
Yeah, good stuff.
Well, Ryan, thank you so much forcoming on today.
I know we touched on a lot ofdifferent points.
So a lot of the podcasts, we liketo do a little recap at the end,
(46:22):
this one, there's quite a bit torecap.
So I'm just going to touch on somehighlights that I had.
Really, I loved seeing sort of howyou transitioned and made that
lifestyle design choice in yourpersonal life to get out of the
book of business and focus on whatactually fulfilled you.
And obviously, I love what you'redoing with the team side and
showing people what they'remissing and how to get to that
(46:44):
next level, finding the rightpartners, picking up the phone and
getting those relationships outthere.
And then just appreciate youshining a light on some of the
hidden nuances and mysteries inthe space and sort of what gets
tucked in the corners or hiddenbehind the curtain.
So thank you for coming on andshining a light on those today.
Yeah, you got it, man.
I appreciate you having me.
I have one last thing to say.
If you are a mortgage agent, you
(47:05):
have a team, a franchise, a youwant to start a a a brokerage,
brokerage, team, franchise, youwant to start a team, doesn't
matter.
You have the best model going.
But if you are one of those peopleand you don't think you're getting
the value where you're at, youcan't put your finger on the value
you're getting.
There's not enough transparency.
Or if you're stuck and you justdon't know how to up your game,
(47:25):
how to get from the next level foryour mortgage business, or you're
just curious.
You're like, hmm, it's probably in
my best interest to just hearwhat's going on over there.
Go check out IamRyanWiley.com orgo to my link in my bio on
Instagram and you'll see there'llbe something up there by the time
this is up.
There'll be a webinar, 15, 20
(47:46):
minute webinar walking you throughwhat team Wiley is all about.
And if you even qualify.
Okay.
So that's all I got to say.
And broker owners out there,
you've been warned.
It's time to up your fricking game
because I'm coming.
I'm going to eat your lunch.
Up your fucking game boys.
Let's go.
Love it.
Love Love it.
I'm fired up.
Let's go, man.
Let's go.
Game time.
Welcome to the mortgage game.
(00:03):
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness.
(00:26):
So now I want to distill all thatinformation, all the things I've
learned from that and bring itdirectly to you in a simple to
understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome to this week's episode of
Commission Breath.
Brandon Love here with Tom Moffitt
and our good buddy and partnerRyan Wiley.
Ryan was one of my first coachesjumping into the mortgage space
(00:46):
and I learned a ton from him andit's great to come full circle and
be collaborating on stuff withTango now.
In today's episode we're going topull back the curtain on a bunch
of stuff we want to chat about.
What's going on in the coaching
space, what's going on with otherbrokerages, what's going with Team
Wiley, social media.
We're going to kind of bob and
weave through a bunch of differenttopic points, but we've got a
(01:07):
master here to come along for thejourney.
So thanks for joining us, Ryan.
Hey, thanks Ryan.
Hey, thanks guys.
Always a pleasure, man.
I love seeing you guys' faces.
Thanks for having me.
So what's keeping you busy today,Ryan?
What is key?Oh my goodness.
Open-ended question.
I know the answer.
Yeah.
Over the past two, three years,
I've really been focusing on justdistilling down what I do every
(01:28):
day.
And right now it's in three
things.
And it's going to stay these three
things for the foreseeable future.
So we've got Strategy Hub, which
co-founder with Jason Henneberry.
We can talk more about that later.
That's a training platform.
We have over 500 students in that
right now, which we're jackedabout because it's only been one
year.
It hasn't been one year yet.
Number two with the VIP Club,that's our database marketing
(01:49):
company I've had for probablyfive, six years.
Jason is a partner with me on thatas well.
And we have, I think we're in the7,800 agent range and that's
monthly emails we send out on yourbehalf.
And then number three is the mostrecent And that's one.
monthly emails we send out on yourAnd behalf.
then number three is the mostrecent one.
And that is Team Wiley.
I have officially launched my own
mortgage team, as you guys know,because it's under your brokerage.
Go figure.
We're very happy you decided to
make us your home.
(02:09):
I'm happy too.
We're excited to see the thingsyou've got cooking because it's
definitely a unique model comparedto what the Canadian broker space
is used to.
And I'm just curious, like you've
had all of these ventures afterbrokering, you've got Strategy
Hub, you've got VIP Club, mostlycoaching based, like what made you
veer into the team based aspectside of things?
(02:31):
Well, I wanted to solve twoproblems.
One was a problem for me and onewas a problem for other brokers.
Talked to a lot of brokers andover the years, what's the number
one problem at your brokerage?I ask that question all the time.
And you get some of the typicalanswers like, I don't get access
to lenders or this or that.
And those are one-offs here and
(02:51):
there.
But the biggest problem, the
biggest answer I got, the mostcommon answer I got is, Ryan, I
don't know how to get from 10million to 29.
I don't know how to get from 15 to30.
Or I'm at 50, but I'm working 70hours.
How do I pull back my time?There's no one at the brokerage
that can help me with that.
And so they might have a mentor
(03:13):
there, but that mentor can only goso deep because typically the
mentors or the team lead to thebroker owners running their own
book of business.
So they're a competing broker and
they're being pulled in 18 milliondirections.
And they might not even have theskill set to articulate to you how
to get in the day to day from 10million to 25 million.
Whereas for the past couple ofyears, that's all I've been doing.
(03:34):
I've been coaching hundreds andhundreds and hundreds of brokers
on how to do that.
So I'm sitting here going, geez, I
can solve that problem.
Part two of that was the problem.
It's that, and then I don't thinkI'm getting enough value for my
split.
And that's a combo of your split
to the house.
So if you're 80-20, 20 goes to the
house, what am I getting for my 20points?
(03:55):
And then also the monthly fee.
I'm paying this monthly fee, this
advertising fee.
I don't really know what I get
from that.
I'm not sure.
Is it a desk fee?I'm really not entirely sure.
So there's not enough value,perceived value from the agent,
and they don't have thehandholding or mentorship to know
how to grow their business.
So those two problems, I'm like, I
(04:15):
can solve that.
I can do that.
I'm going to start my own team.
And then the second problem I'm
solving, I said there was two.
One was perceived value packaged
with mentorship.
I'm going to solve that.
Part two was a me problem, was I'mcoaching people one-on-one and
people are paying me $500 an hour.
And I have a lineup of people and
I coach them for three hours.
(04:36):
And then they go off and they go,
they just go, they go out thereand they start doing their thing
and they may or may not come back.
But if they would have come back
three months later, then I canshow them more.
But sometimes life happens, youdon't come back.
And then maybe they go from 10 to17 million.
Well, who benefits from that longterm?
(04:58):
Long term, it's the broker ownerwho did nothing in that scenario
outside of give them a place tohang their license and answer a
phone call or a text once in awhile or an email.
And so I'm like, geez, I shouldbenefit from that.
If I'm going to show you how to gofrom 10 to 25 million, I want to
benefit from that long term.
And I can actually show you how to
(05:18):
get even higher than that becauseyou're going to be forced in the
nicest way possible to work andcollaborate with me ongoing, which
you'll want to because it's partof the package deal.
So by starting Team Wiley, it'ssomething that does not exist in
our industry.
Nobody has this model.
If you do, hit me up.
I'd love to see what you're doing,
but nobody does.
Some people have training, but
it's usually around underwriting.
And even if you have some sales
training, I don't know how good itis, but even if you have sales
(05:41):
training, no one's coming intoyour business one-on-one with
mentoring, showing you what to do.
if Do this, do this, do this.
I'm here.
You're at the front of the line.
So that's the model there issomething we're trying
experimenting.
I know it's going to work.
This is a 10, 15, 20 year play.
This will work and it will disrupt
a little bit of what's going onthere.
I'm in a unique position where Ican actually deliver all of that.
(06:02):
And at the't have your own haveyour own business.
Yeah.
So at the end of the day, sales
and marketing is everything.
Like without it, you don't have
the leads coming in.
You're not closing any loans.
So I see that gap in the industryas well.
Like you alluded to the fact thata lot of broker owners and team
leads, they might be successful intheir business because they've
been around for 15, 20 years.
They have their own book of
(06:23):
business with their past The leadsclients.
just kind of flow in for Theyclose it them.
when they come They haven for in.
20 They 15, have their years.
own book of business with theirpast clients.
The leads just kind of flow in forthem.
They close it when they come in.
They haven't prospected in years.
So that side of the business isreally missing from that aspect.
Or you have someone signed up toyour team or your brokerage or
(06:44):
whatever, because they came therethinking they were going to get
all this gory support.
And then little did they know that
the broker owner is running theirAnd book.
then you're like, I thought oh,you were going to get all this
gory support.
And then little did they know that
the broker owners run in theirbook.
And then you're like, Oh, Ithought you were going to be
around.
I'll help you package a deal here
and there.
Yeah.
But how do I get business?Oh yeah.
No, just talk to people, just talkto people.
And that's a common theme.
And so there's a lot of people at
brokerages in bad scenarios thatare being let down in that
scenario.
They're coming in with unrealistic
expectations because it was setastronomically high and the team
(07:04):
was never going to be able todeliver.
Or you have broker owners who aregreat and they're great people.
They're all great people.
Most of them are good people.
They're not doing it on purpose.
They just have to run their life.
But you come in and then they go,oh, don't worry, I'll take care of
you.
And then they bring in a mentor.
They bring in a mentor.
I like the air quotes today.
I they're going to add 10 basispoints or five basis points.
will, oh, We're going to take thatoff and they're going to mentor
(07:28):
you.
The mentor doesn't know what
they're doing half the time.
They don't even have their own
book of business that they'rerunning.
They don't know what they'redoing.
They're not qualified.
They might be qualified to package
a send to a but I'm deal, nottalking lender, about that.
Talking about lead gen genmarketing, sales, soft sales like
building out your process skills,and helping build a team.
systems, I'm not talking aboutlender guidelines and packaging
(07:49):
You can hire people to do that.
deals.
Talk about all the other stuff.
So it's this janky thing that's
built up with a lot of agentsrunning around in the industry,
not having a clue how to buildtheir business.
And so I want to solve that for aselect few.
Yeah, that's the thing I found isa lot of people are just kind of
nomadic wandering kind of lost outthere in the industry.
that's the thing I found is a lotof people are just kind of nomadic
(08:11):
wandering kind of lost out therein the industry.
And the thing I like about yourmodel is, you know, obviously,
you're taking a split from peoplebecause you're providing this
value to them.
But on the brokerage side of
things, once you bring someonefrom 10 to 20 million, their split
changes within the brokerage andthey actually make that money back
up again by getting a better splitgoing that way.
So effectively, you're creatingvalue for yourself and them at the
(08:31):
same time.
And it works out to be as long as
they follow the plan, it'seffectively no cost to to them.
Bingo.
Yeah.
You win, I win.
You come in, we take three steps
back to take 10 forward.
We'll get you up to, as you
pointed out, some people are goingto come in on an 85-15 split
because of where they're at in thetier.
So with our coaching andmentoring, they're going to move
up and now they might be a 90-10and that five basis point
difference, I'm taken care of.
So you're essentially free rolling
(08:51):
it as they call, playing with thehouse's money after that.
And then you get me and my team inyour corner for the rest of your
career.
So yeah, great way to put it, man.
I never actually thought about itat that angle.
So I like that.
There's a new twist for you.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
We'll be seeing that.
He's going to look side of like
the agents maybe we can talk aboutyour agents that you have on your
(09:14):
team what's the main focus forthem obviously might differ for
each agent but the generalconsensus like what's the main
focus for to look side of like theagents maybe we can talk about
your agents that you have on yourteam what's the main focus for
them obviously might differ foreach agent but the general
consensus like what's the mainfocus for them to get more leads
today what are you focusing on forthem yep so there's a of core
(09:35):
foundations you need built in yourmortgage a of core foundations you
need built in your mortgagebusiness, and you're not going to
get them all built right away.
But we look under the hood as soon
as you join the team and we wantto identify where the holes in the
boat are, right?You've got your client journey.
(09:56):
Everyone needs a really goodclient journey.
So you know what you're doing in afile.
The client knows what they'redoing.
So that's one thing we're going tohelp you build out over time.
Your email marketing plan, 95% ofbrokers absolutely suck at this
and are missing out on massiveopportunities.
And so we're going to help youbuild an email marketing plan.
Building your brand on socialmedia.
We're going to help you with thatas well, with consistent content
and putting best practices intoplace.
Crushing your discovery call,learning that what to say, just
because you get 10 leads doesn'tmean you're going to close any of
them.
So how do you stand out from the
bank?We're going to put some advanced
mortgage strategies in front ofyou and coach you up on those so
you're not competing on price andproduct.
But the first thing out of thegate that we're going to do is
(10:18):
we're going to track your time.
We're going to go, what are your
daily non-negotiables?What are the daily things you do
that no matter how busy you get,you're working 12 files, which
very rarely people are.
You're working 12 files.
What's that half hour, 45 minutes?What's the lifeline of your
business, the daily habits you putin there?
And so we map those out forpeople.
We go, do this, do this, do this.
And we literally whiteboard it
(10:39):
out.
And it's specific for each person
because each person yeah they havelike they're more inclined they
have more referral partners thatare more entrenched with some need
more referral partners some needto build a better relationship
with the current people who sendin those one-two straggler deals
every year and so what do we dothere and then some people are
just getting started on socialsome people have content already
so what do we do there?And then some people are just
getting started on social.
(10:59):
Some people have content already.
Well, how do we leverage that inthe relationships you build?
So we put together, that's thefirst thing we do.
It's a one-on-one call with me andwe build out the daily
non-negotiable list that's custombuilt for you and your business.
Yeah.
You're speaking our You're
speaking our language, man.
We've been speaking about that a
lot lately and we're lucky.
We're fortunate enough that we're
(11:20):
always spitballing ideas andbouncing off each other.
And we have each other asaccountability partner, but not
everyone has that.
And that's the key element that's
missing right now.
I didn't realize you guys went
that deep in the fact that you'llgo through their actual referral
partners.
And obviously, you're just giving
one example, but you're seeing howmany leads each partner has sent
(11:40):
and where their main lead sourceis.
So I think that's pretty cool.
Yeah, a lot of people are trying
to get these new referral partnersout there where you have people
who are already sending youbusiness.
And so let's call it 10 agents.
And maybe two of them are sending
you majority of their business.
I was talking to a broker a couple
of weeks ago and he's like, I lostmy top referral partner, seven
deals she sent me last year.
I'm like, why?
It's like, I called her and askedwhy.
And she's like, you stoppedreaching out to me to go for
(12:01):
coffee.
We never talked anymore.
So I found someone else.
He's like, but I closed every
deal.
She's like, yeah, but I found
another person who can close everydeal.
So the relationship part wasmissed.
And so you've got these realtors,let's call them realtors for now,
realtors around you that send youa lot of business.
Well, we need to build a fencearound them with a VIP plan.
So what is our plan?So I have a seven point plan.
(12:24):
It's like, let's put this inmotion just for the VIP.
And then we have some people thatsend us one lead a month, one lead
every two months.
Do they have the capability to
send us more?Do they do enough volume that they
can send us more?If the answer is yes, and we give
you ways to figure that out, ifthe answer is yes, then let's add
them into our VIP plan for ourreferral partners.
And let's put them into thosethree, four, five, seven things we
(12:45):
do to nurture the currentrealtors.
Before we go prospect new people,let's take care of the ones that
already love us.
It's like, let's go around to our
family members before we starttelling strangers we love them and
let's make sure they're taken careof.
I feel like we made that mistaketoo.
I know I did in my book last yearwhere I tried to go and get a
bunch of new partners.
I had a few really good ones and
then they kind of fell off.
(13:07):
It was because I wasn't taking
them for drinks.
I wasn't doing all the steps
because I was trying to get moreand then trying to do other things
in the business.
And I kind of forgot the hand that
was feeding my family.
And then this year I became really
aware of it.
I got like super deep with a few
people and my life is so mucheasier now.
last year life is so much easiernow.
I just have a few partners thatsend me all of their deals.
(13:29):
Everything funds and it's likeactually enjoyable to work with
them.
And it's a radically different
experience working this year.
That's a good point, man.
And that's why a lot of brokers,man.
And that's why a lot of brokers,the ones that shit on real, I
don't want to work with realtors.
It's like, you're working with the
wrong ones.
Find the great ones.
It's spectacular.
You end up becoming good friends
with them.
Your families meet, you support
(13:50):
their business and vice versa.
There's a lot of really good
synergy, a lot of good businessideas, a lot of good stuff comes
from it.
It's just you've been working with
the wrong realtors.
Yeah, I've been thinking about
that a lot lately too.
And I think the upfront work to
not just taking on any meetingwith any realtor is something you
should consider too.
I was taking on meetings with
every realtor I could find just soI can build up this huge list
(14:10):
similar to And Brandon.
I think if I can go back and I
wanted to build up my everyrealtor I could find just so I can
build up this huge list similar toBrandon.
And I think if I can go back and Iwanted to build up my list again,
I would probably do some upfrontresearch and see if that person
actually produces and use my timemore wiser and rather go a mile
deep than a mile wide.
Quality over quantity, right?
I'll give you guys two things todo for the listeners listening.
(14:31):
Two things to do if you want tovet a realtor.
There's lots of things you can do,but these are two things I do and
coach on doing is number one, makesure they have minimum 20 Google
reviews, right?Realtors do less ends than
mortgage brokers.
So like if we have 50, it shows
you're pretty decent.
The equivalent's about 20 with a
realtor.
So 20 of those, if they don't have
(14:52):
a Google review page set up, I runfor the hills.
It tells me they're not seriousabout their business.
And then once they have, I see thereviews, then I go check them
online.
And I go check out their Instagram
or their Facebook.
And on Instagram, I'm looking and
I'm seeing how consistent, A, doesit look like you have your shit
together?Does it look like you're serious
about your brand you're puttingenergy into it and then how often
are you posting and are you makingvideos are you just doing
postcards and thinking that socialmedia or are you making videos and
I want to see that you'reconsistently putting videos out
there and if I have that andyou're doing stories you're doing
(15:15):
all that now I go okay I knowyou're doing volume I know you're
doing it you're And you're doingstories, you're doing all that.
Now I go, okay, I know you'redoing volume.
I know you're doing it.
You're serious.
You're going to appreciate the wayI'm going to prospect you the
consistent way I'm going toprospect you with custom videos,
reaching out through social,they'll have like a mutual respect
there.
(15:35):
And I just know.
And so those are the two simplethings that you can whittle that
list down to.
I like that filter.
And I think it's good to kind oflike the idea of sharpening the ax
for longer than it takes to chopdown the tree.
I think a lot of the times peopleare like, it's so hard to get a
meeting.
I'm just going to take all these
meetings.
And if your brand's banking new,
(15:56):
sure, do the 150 meetings becauseyou're going to get so good at
your pitch.
But once you're good at your
pitch, you got to pivot and gotowards finding the quality.
Find the the quality.
And another thing brokers miss out
on is they forget this isn't aforever thing.
You only need to find five rockstars.
Like once you have your rockstars, then you lock them into
(16:17):
your VIP plan where you're justtaking care of them with all the
things you're doing.
And then you're done.
You don't have to prospectrealtors.
And if your social is good anddecent, realtors will start coming
to you and you could sort of siftthrough and filter them out and
choose if you want to take someoneelse on.
So this is only a moment in timeplan.
So if you were to go back on dayone, Ryan, would you focus on
realtors or would you focus onsocial first?
(16:37):
Realtors, without a doubt.
Instant offense, quickest way to,
I'm going to leverage their trustthey've already built in other
databases, in their database, intheir client base, their marketing
dollars, their hours, kissingbabies, shaking hands.
I want to leverage that.
So now all I need to do is, I
don't even have to be a reallygood mortgage broker.
All I have to do is be really goodat relationships.
And so now my focus is not knowingall these things I need to know as
a broker.
It's how do I get that realtor to
(16:59):
like me and want to trust me andsend me a lead.
That's where my focus goes tobuilding relationships with
realtors.
And then behind the scenes, I'm
sharpening my axe, as you say, andI'm getting better at being a
mortgage broker, but I'm nottrying to be a mortgage broker, a
really good one, and then goprospect.
I'm going to focus onrelationships.
So I would do both at the sametime.
But first and foremost, I wouldprospect realtors.
(17:21):
Gotcha.
You wouldn't say, okay, you know
what, I'm just going to maybe putthe social on hold, just focus on
realtors, get to maybe a certainvolume or a certain handful of
core realtors, then start social?You're saying you would do it
alongside that and go all in onboth?
Yeah, I've got time.
You're telling me I just started.
What else am I doing?What's my day look like?
I'm going to do a post, minimumone post a day.
I'll do it on Facebook, Instagram,maybe LinkedIn.
(17:43):
I'm not sure.
I'll probably just start Facebook,
Instagram.
It's very cohesive there.
Easy to do.
I'll do a couple of stories a day.
I'll pump that out consistentlyover and over and over again with
show, don't tell videos, justexplaining what I'm doing in the
day, showing how I'm helpingpeople, stories over and over and
over.
And I'll prospect realtors behind
the scenes as well with customvideos through DM.
And that model there, there's noway that model doesn't work.
(18:06):
There's no way.
I'm seeing it work right now with
agents who are one year in thegame going to close 25 million in
their first year.
And that's what they're doing.
Yeah, I think as long as you'reconsistent, you can get to that 10
to 25 million out the gates.
It's not rocket science.
You just have to stick to theplan.
And the problem is that people dotwo months of the plan and then
(18:27):
they're like, oh fuck, I don'tfeel like doing the plan today.
And then it kind of gets a badhabit.
It falls apart.
And three months later, they're
like, okay, I'm going to stick tothe plan now.
And it's kind of like going intothe gym or, or anything like that.
If you're not consistent with it,you never hold onto the results.
You might see it for a glimmer.
(18:47):
I might look good on the beach,
but in the middle of the winter,beer belly is probably back again.
That's just the reality of life ifyou're not consistent with it.
Yeah, you got it, man.
We all know this too, right?
It's not like we're coming up withcrazy things.
We just have to be reminded and weall know.
So you asked me what I do.
That's what I do, man.
And I just get used to rejectionand I would just make sure I
(19:09):
understand my why that's powerfulenough.
Push through.
So obviously we're throwing out a
lot of ideas of what people we'rethrowing out a lot of ideas of
what people should be doing andthere's no shortage of people
telling you what to do in thisspace.
I don't know.
Everyone here has probably noticed
that there's a ton of differentcoaching options that's popped up
with different courses, differentofferings.
What are you kind of seeing inthis space?
(19:31):
That's quality.
What are you seeing?
That's maybe a little bit morefluffy.
Why are you seeing this massinflux of people starting to offer
coaching?Yeah.
Oh yeah.
It's funny when volumes dip down,
everyone thinks they're a coach,right?
It's like there are phenomenalcoaches in the industry, but
there's also a lot of, right,whatever.
I'm not here to go, hey, they'renot good and they're good.
But it is just interesting whenvolumes go down, instead of
focusing on how to get morebusiness in your own book, you go,
(19:53):
I'm going to teach other people.
It's like, well, it's that old
thing.
Like if the leads are that good,
why don't you just work themyourself?
Why are you selling them?Right.
It's kind of that same thing.
It's interesting.
So obviously, Scott Peckfordexited the coaching industry.
Phenomenal coach.
When it started, Bricks.
He's building that.
And I believe he's coming back I
in.
knew in a matter of time, and he
should.
He's good for the industry.
We're better off with him in it.
Jim Terlucas is coming in.
He's always been there.
(20:13):
I did some things with him and
he's coming in.
I think him and Scott are doing
stuff, which is great.
He's phenomenal.
You can learn from him.
He's like that old school guy, got
it down the words, how to crushthe discovery call, how to find,
you know, sniper rifle into yourdatabase type stuff, social media
over here.
They're like oil and water, right?
So that's like, I'd love to havean open debate with Jim on that
(20:33):
about the merits of social media,running a business versus what
he's doing.
He's got a very unique model, but
he's a phenomenal coach.
I've seen his training.
It was part of what I was doing atone point.
He's great.
You've got Dustin Woodhouse.
I don't know what he's doing.
I think he's either going to go
brokering.
I think he's coaching, maybe not
coaching, maybe more of aplatform, speaking on stages and
(20:54):
stuff like that, because I knowthat's really up his alley and
he's really good at it.
Not sure exactly what he's doing
there, but all that is good.
Everybody in the industry, and
it's a very small industry, havingthose guys in there, they need to
be in there because agents have, Iwant you to have all these
options.
I need you to have different
(21:15):
voices to go learn from anddifferent things.
And it's all part of the journeyof you becoming an awesome
mortgage agent and making moneyfor your family.
Outside of that, I know there'ssome one-off stuff going on.
Nothing I would actually say isworth doing, but all that stuff
there.
And then you've got like the
underwriting coaching and whatnot.
And you've got Jill Mullering who
does that, the mortgage nerd withNewbie Group.
And she's really good.
(21:36):
She has more in her brain on
underwriting than a lot of uscombined.
She's great.
Her coaching is always going to be
there.
I think it's an exciting time.
We were there.
Things kind of dwindled down a
little bit.
And now we're coming back where
there's people coming out.
I think it's an exciting time.
And I'm super excited to see whateveryone's doing.
Yeah, I think it's good to havethe variety there because everyone
has their own little niche andtheir expertise in certain things.
(21:58):
Like you talked about with Jim andthe old school approach and that
versus social.
Like, I think it's good to have
all these different options, but Ido agree you see all these other
ones that pop up for a couplemonths at a time.
You're like, I wonder why this islike happening right now when
everything is very quiet in themortgage industry.
Like, that's just the firstthought that comes to my head.
Maybe they're slow in their ownbook.
And so they're thinking of how canI make more money this way?
(22:21):
So it's funny you thought thattoo.
Everyone wants like the residualincome coming in.
I have a course now, which iscool.
I get I can respect someone tryingthings.
And then, you know, you've gotschools with Hermosi coming out.
And so a lot of people think theycan go build this community of
people that are going to pay themmoney.
It's easy.
easy.
Yeah, it's not easy.
We have a community of over 500
people.
(22:41):
Each of them are paying us
monthly.
It's a lot of freaking work and
you have to continuously deliver.
It's a lot.
And so I just sort of laugh andgo, I hope you make it because I'm
all about supportingentrepreneurs.
But it's way harder than you thinkit is.
To deal with yourself.
And we found too that like, we've
been guilty of this ourselveswhere we try doing Leadvine and
(23:01):
doing different programs outsideof doing our own book.
And we thought our book will keephumming along at the same time.
But the reality was it actuallydoing that shit really hurt our
book for a couple of months to thepoint where we were like, shit, we
got to kill this thing now beforeit goes too far.
And we ended up killing our goldenegg trying to get something new
rolling.
And ignore your referral partners
that were putting food on thetable, like you referenced
(23:23):
earlier, right?Exactly.
Because you're like, ooh, likeyour highest and best use of your
time, if you're an agent, iswithout a doubt in your own book.
Without a doubt.
Yeah.
There's no argument you can giveme there.
It is.
But if you want to scratch an itch
and do something off the side ofyour desk, sure.
But call it what it is.
If you're a broker owner or if
you're a team lead and you'rerunning a book of business, I've
talked to a lot of team leads likethis.
(23:45):
If I could go back in time, theysaid I would scrap the team model,
but I can't because I don't wantto let people down.
But I work double the hours andmake half the money.
That's true.
Double the hours and make half the
money with running a team.
And the same thing with running a
team and the same thing withrunning a course off the side
here's what happened a lot ofpeople watch scott peckford build
from island b and his podcast andthe facebook group and he did
courses and he did a lot of thisstuff and he makes it look easy
(24:08):
right he has a special talentright he's very good at that he's
very good at the marketing likehe's built platforms he's very
good at the marketing.
Like he's built platforms.
He's very good at that.
And I think a lot of people have,
cause I know I could list off aname of people.
I'm not going to, but have dippedtheir toe in and tried it.
And then they're like, oh shit, noone showed up or that was hard or
(24:30):
I can't deliver or, oh, I got todo that again tomorrow.
Yeah.
So Scott was the first guy.
He was the trailblazer in there.
He was so good at it.
He made it look so easy.
And then I've been in there and
now I'm learning and I learnedsome things from him and I taught
him some things.
And I'm like, yeah, I already know
it's not easy, but it's an all inthing, which is why I'm all in.
(24:50):
And I have been for a while.
Yeah.
And And you're kind of a uniquecase where you exited like your
personal book at its peak.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I
think you were just over a hundredmil at the time of exiting
personal brokering.
Yeah. 90 Yeah. 90 mil, 90 mil.
Yeah.
So what was the reasoning behind
you wanting to make that shiftwhen you're making the most money
ever at that point?Quite easy.
I didn't want to get out of bed inthe morning.
And so I wanted to get out threeyears before that.
(25:10):
And my wife could see I was veryunhappy, very stressful.
And being a broker is stressful.
It is stressful, right?
Especially at that volume andyou're pumping out 180 deals a
year and really stressful, eventhough I had fulfillment, which
was fine and she was fulfillment.
But she said, just for three
years, can you buckle down?Because I had a lot of ventures.
I did a lot of things from clientcaller to some mini little
coaching course stuff to ran anAmazon store to running a Facebook
ad agency.
I got all these things.
(25:31):
Like I was trying to get out ofthe broker space.
And she's like, Ryan, you're sogood at it.
Your clients love you.
Can you just commit for three
years, make a bunch of money forthe family and then go do what
makes you happy.
And I was like, deal.
And I shut down everything else.
And the only thing I kept going,
which was five years ago, or theonly thing I started was my
podcast.
So that scratched the itch for me
was one day I just started apodcast, me driving around a
vehicle.
Five years ago, I started that.
(25:52):
At the same time, I started aFacebook group, but I didn't do
anything with the Facebook group.
I did nothing.
I wish I did.
It was a marketing Facebook group,
but I did with the podcast.
And here we are.
I just relaunched the Facebookgroup, which it'll be a big
marketing community for mortgagebrokers in Canada.
But yeah, that's what it was.
And then it was easy for me to
jump ship because I was already,it was part of my master plan to
(26:13):
get out.
And I know with every fiber in me,
doing what I'm doing now,coaching, mentoring agents, and
then having my own team, like I'mgood.
I feel like my cup is full.
I wake up, I know who I'm serving.
I know what I was put on thisplanet to do.
I'm looking nothing but straightahead.
No side.
I'm not getting diverted with any
ideas.
It's do, do, do.
I just deflect.
It's a very peaceful feeling to
have.
I'm at peace with a lot of things.
(26:34):
It's really cool.
I'm there.
And the team Wiley was the finalpiece of the puzzle.
That's awesome.
I love that because so many times
you see people who get to, youknow, that volume and all of a
sudden the golden handcuffs are onand they're like, oh, I'm going to
do another three years.
I'm going to add another three
years after that.
And it's just, they end up hating
(26:55):
their life and never find thatnext fulfilling step because the
money's so good.
So it's quite impressive that
you're actually willing to justwash your hands, leave that on the
table and go to the next thing.
So kudos to you for that.
Well, that's the nice part thenice part about this industry.
Like you don't have to be in itforever.
You can literally, you know, getwhatever the number is that you
want.
Like Brandon and I, we actually
(27:16):
are on our own personal financialindependence journey where we want
to just make a shit ton of moneyand not necessarily retire, but
know that we can, if we everwanted to pivot from our own
personal book of business.
And I think that's the cool part
about this industry is you canmake as much money as you want.
You don't have to be here for a 30year career.
(27:36):
You can crush it in 10 years, makeyour money and then decide to do
something else.
Bingo.
And so, yep.
And for the record, I went from a
million dollars in earnings thatyear down to 150.
Damn.
Right.
A lot of people are like, what?And so if that doesn't tell you
how committed I am, I don't knowwhat else does, man.
I don't know.
I'm assuming you're not there at
this point though, but kudos toyou for that's a huge draw, man.
(27:58):
That's 10% of what you're earning.
Yeah, it was, but I knew I had to
take 15 steps back.
But even more than that was my own
mental health, how I was showingup for my wife and my kids, my own
personal health.
You know, when I was going through
that, that point where I'mcrushing all those out, A, my
fitness wasn't on point.
B, my nutrition, I was drinking
(28:20):
more than I probably should have,you know, having wine every night
and kind of rationalizing it withit's wine time and blah, blah,
blah.
And then short temper with my
kids, not being as present as Ishould be not being there for my
wife.
And she's my best friend and just
stuff like that.
And when I got that off and I got
direction on what my purposes andwho I serve, it was like, ah, and
(28:43):
now it's like everything for me isfricking dialed in.
I am good to go.
So you think there's a way,
obviously you can reduce theamount of stress you have as a
broker, but do you think there's away where you can essentially So
you you can essentially takeyourself out of the day-to-day
files and have your team of, youhave your underwriter,
fulfillment, client carespecialist, however you want to
structure your team.
Do you think there's a way to do
that?Or do you think you're always
(29:03):
going to be dragged into thefiles?
That's a good question.
I think there's a couple of ways
you can play that.
Obviously, if you're a one-man
band or one-woman band, you needfulfillment.
Like, come on, like down paymentdocs, you don't become a better
person grinding through downpayment docs.
Like, you don't come out of thatgoing like skipping down the road,
like you're on the yellow brickroad to do off to see the wizard.
You're not doing that.
Like it just beats you down doing
(29:25):
that stuff.
So you need fulfillment.
And then when you have that, thatwas when I was able to go from
like 20 to 59, it was because offulfillment.
And that's where the 12 hourbroker came from.
So I was working 12 hours a weekdoing that cycle volume because I
had help.
So I could have just pressed pause
there.
I could have said this was great.
And that was very not stressful,but I decided to churn my book
(29:47):
more.
And also COVID was coming in and
rates are going down.
So where we were at in the
environment, my volume justspiked.
But if I could go back, it wouldbe the 40, 50 million, 12 hours a
week, one fulfillment, dialed inwith a webinar, dialed in with
email marketing.
I would be dialed in with social
and I would just be talking aboutthings all the time, but I'd be at
(30:12):
12 hours a week.
And I would only have to put out
so many fires.
I'd only have to put out one or
two fires, three fires a month asopposed to, right?
So it was all relative.
My stress levels were relative to
the volume.
Could I get another person in to
manage?Sure.
But I know brokers who have donethat.
I know brokers who had my modelwent to 200 million, 100 million.
(30:32):
Now they have a team of four orfive and now they have different
stress levels.
It's not the file they're putting
out fires that is hiring someone,trusting them, training them,
coaching them, and then stillmentoring them and then putting
out their own fires.
And now you're an HR specialist.
So the stress is always going tobe there.
It's just which stress do youwant, right?
(30:53):
Do you want the COF stress and theclient freaking out and the lawyer
going, we don't have funds on theday of closing and what's going on
stress?Or do you want the stress of
hiring and firing people anddealing with all that and running
and like building a business?I mean, if I had to pick, I'd go
with option two, but if I had topick, I'd go with neither.
But I do get what you're saying.
I think like there's that kind of
happy volume that you can hit andjust kind of have like that luxury
(31:15):
lifestyle around having enoughincome coming in from the files
you're closing to.
I think the hardest part is trying
to find that and dialing in yourclient journey to make sure you
can get there.
Yep.
Different answer for everyone too.
For sure.
And I think there's also a sweetspot where, you know, you get to a
hundred to 200 million, you addall these people.
By the time you're all said anddone with salaries and all that
(31:37):
jazz, it might actually be thesame amount of money that's left
over.
So then you have to identify, are
you building this for the moneyside of it?
Are you building this for egoside?
What is the why for this?And I think a lot of the time that
shines a light on actually whereyour priorities are.
Yeah, I know.
It's interesting you say that
because the number I gave you,that was net.
That's how I netted out on my lastyear.
(31:58):
I know brokers who have teams offour or five and you think they're
crushing it and their volumes arecrushing it, but they're netting
out four or 500K.
And you might think that's great,
but their volumes are like 130,140, 150, and they're netting out.
That's what I was netting out whenI was doing 50 mil, running eight
files a month with fulfillment whotakes majority of the work off my
plate.
I'm working 10, 12 hours a week,
(32:19):
netting out four or 500 K a year.
That's a glorious thing versus you
build a 120 empire and you backout all the stuff, even a hundred
mil.
Like, yeah.
So it's what you net.
A lot of people live in the gross
world and we've been conditionedto tell people what we earn volume
wise and blah, blah, blah, pumpour chests out.
And what are you doing?And I'm at this volume, but it's
(32:40):
like, dude, what are you nettingout, man?
Yeah.
What are you netting out?
Like, and what's your stresslevel?
And just because you're earningthat much, your volume's there,
where you're earning that muchmoney.
I'll tell you right now, you lookabout 60 pounds overweight.
You don't seem happy.
And like, you're going through
(33:00):
some shit at home with the family,but you're doing a hundred
million.
Oh, good for you.
Like that's quite the sacrifice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're going to lose 50% of that
additional gains when you you getyour divorce.
Right.
We all make choices.
So I was very cognizant of that.
And that's how I built my mall.
And it was like, I'm not lettinganything get into the fortress I
have at home.
And it was, it was getting there.
So I had to get out.
(33:21):
So we we started off this episode
talking about team structures,team leads, different aspects in
the mortgage brokerage space.
For our listeners, some people
might be wondering if they're in agood setup or if they have a good
team structure with where they'reat.
What are some things that youwould say are like the most
important line items that theyshould be looking at when it comes
to joining a brokerage or movingto a new brokerage?
(33:41):
Well, geez, there's some veryobvious ones.
One is if you don't get access toyour underwriters and BDMs, if you
can't submit deals directly,there's a problem.
There's a reason you don't haveaccess to those people.
It's probably because you're notbeing paid volume bonus.
This is still happening, kids.
Still happening, unfortunately.
I remember when I was...
People told me, hey, ryan go start
a team and then people come inunder their team and you do all
this work and you get them on yourteam and then they work for 75
basis finders fee from scotia andguess what you keep the volume
(34:04):
bonus it's your team and theysigned up for that and i'm like
what i'm like i keep the volumebonus why well because you're
doing all the work and i'm'm like,what work am I doing?
They're the ones getting the deal,putting the deal.
And I'm just maybe mentoring them.
That's a mentality.
There's a mentality, but don't letthem talk to the BRM.
(34:26):
I've had BRMs call when I had ateam.
It's a very small team, mind you,one or two agents.
When I had a team, I had BDMs callme and go, hey, Ryan, I'm about to
talk to this agent can i mentionvolume bonus and i'm like yeah i'm
like really are we still doingthat yeah so if you don't have
access to your bdm yourunderwriting you have submitted
(34:46):
that's like red flag 101 red flagnumber one okay yeah we had one
yeah we had one of thoseconversations like two weeks ago
literally two weeks ago a bdmasked that same question i'm like
yes man they can know the volumebonus.
We disclose it it all.
Another one is the scorecard,
which I think like I know atTango, we divide up the Scotia
scorecard between all the agentson the team.
I think Bricks does as well.
But I think that's one in
particular that a lot of teams andbrokerages keep to themselves just
(35:08):
because of the admin side oftrying to split all of it up?
I'm not opposed to you keeping thevolume not opposed to you keeping
the volume bonus.
I'm not opposed to you keeping the
efficiency bonus, but it has to beoutlined up front and signed off
on.
And agents are coming into this
with eyes wide open, knowingexactly in a moment where I go,
(35:29):
what do you earn?What's your split?
And forget that whole other 5%franchise staying on top that's
kind of hidden in everywhere.
What is your net split?
What do you actually get that on?You should be able to articulate
that.
If you can't on the spot, there's
a problem.
But at some point, it's your
responsibility as your ownbusiness owner.
It's not the brokerage, the teamlead.
They're running a business andyou're just falling in line.
(35:51):
What's status quo?I have to go find out.
It's crazy that we have to keephaving that conversation, but I'll
gladly do it.
Hopefully it's one person we save.
And there's been a lot of brokerowners earning a lot of money off
the backs of agents in thisindustry for a long freaking time.
And they're not doing it on the upand up.
And it's crazy.
(36:11):
Or my favorite is this.
You have a tiered system.
This is a good one for everybody
listening.
You have a tiered system within
your brokerage, which is verynormal.
Hey, I'm 75, 25 because I do 5million.
When I get to 10 million, I'm 80,20 and so on and so on up the
plan.
The brokerage should be proactive
(36:32):
and reaching out to you and going,congratulations, you made it.
You've now on the next tier.
But they don't.
Majority of them don't.
They sit there and wait for you to
come.
Months after, work up the courage
to walk into the office or sendthe email or set up a call to then
get on there and go, hey, I'm atvolume, but right?
It shouldn't be that way where youhave to go and fight for the money
you signed up for.
It's crazy.
(36:52):
So I would go check and make surewhatever your volume is, where
does it fall in line on the tier,right?
You might have moved up a notchand not even realize it.
I'd go and ask for yourcommissions by retroactive.
Yeah.
Like every pay Like every pay
period, we send all of the agentstheir year to date commissions and
it shows them exactly wherethey've got different sources from
volume, et cetera.
So you can see exactly, okay, I've
(37:14):
done $10 million and then you'reat your next level there.
It's crystal clear that way.
And I found this before, it
probably drives Tom a littlecrazy, but I'm very nitpicky on
like tracking the basis pointsthat come in the books, doing all
the spreadsheets, just becauseover the years, I found so much
money that would have been left onthe table, just from bonuses not
being paid out or missed by maybethe lender or maybe the brokerage
(37:35):
collected the money, he couldn'tquite figure out how to disperse
it.
So it just got ignored and life
moved But by combing on.
through the books't quite figure
out how to disperse So it just it.
got ignored and life moved on.
But by combing through the booksthere, I was always able to find
money for us.
Yep, reconcile.
That should be something in yourcalendar.
Once a month, you reconcilebecause just because you got paid
X, I need to reverse engineer andmake sure I got what I was
(37:58):
supposed to get.
So go into your submission
platform, find out the beeps youwere supposed to be paid, look at
your pay stub.
And it's either the lender paid
the brokerage wrong, or thebrokerage got the money and then
paid you wrong.
It's no one's fault.
It's usually, it's just humanerror here or there.
But this happened in over a 10month period.
I went back and looked and I wasout over 30K.
(38:21):
And I went back to the lender andmajority of it was one lender.
And I went back and looked and Iwas out over 30K and I went back
to the lender and majority of itwas one lender.
And I went back and said, Hey,these are the files.
And it took me, I remember it wasa whole plane ride back from
Toronto to Kelowna.
So when me and my wife came out to
(38:43):
Kelowna to test it out and checkit out on the way back, she's
like, can you please just, I thinkwe're missing money.
I said, okay, I'll do it.
So on a four and a half hour plane
ride back, I reconciled all thestuff and I came up with $30,000.
And so I wrote out the email,guess what the lender's response
was?My bad.
Okay, cool.
I don't know what I was expecting
(39:03):
to be honest, but I got paid.
I think all the trade records
started to come in, like on thatledger, like scrolling through
pages of stuff.
And I was like, oh my God.
And then some of it was thebrokerage paid me wrong on some
instances.
So I had to go track that down.
But if I don't do that, that's me.
(39:24):
I have to do that, right?
That's my...
Yeah, it comes down to Yeah, it
comes down to the agent.
You do have to have some onus on
it.
But some of it is like, it depends
on the pay stub as an example.
Like the first brokerage I was
with, the pay stub was nottransparent as to like where the
money flowed.
You spoke of the network split
(39:44):
before it gets to the actual teamlead.
And I had no idea I was beingcharged 5% on the house on top of
everything before it got to my netsplit.
I had no idea.
I'm like, why is my net pay lower
than what my actual split is?And it took me a while to figure
out because I was a new agent.
I had no idea until maybe like a
(40:05):
year in.
It was crazy.
It's still out there.
I didn't realize that either.
And I was a new either.
And I was a new agent.
I had no idea until maybe like ayear It in.
was crazy.
It's still out there.
I didn't realize that either.
And I was a producing agent.
And I was like, the math's notadding up.
We're off not a lot, but we're offa little bit.
And I was like, this is crazy thatit's not articulated with my 5%
plus tax off clearly itemized onthere.
(40:25):
Like, where's that money going?I had to do all this gypsy math.
And I was like, this shouldn't bethis way.
It's like 2020 something mortgageworld.
I'm like, oh my God.
And I'm just like, I just never
felt my interests were being takencare of in that type of scenario
when I got to fight and claw andunravel and investigate and all
that for that.
I'm like, there's gotta be an
easier way.
Why can't I just say everything?
(40:45):
Like you said, I'll ask an agent.
I'm talking to agents now all the
time.
Part of the conversation always
gets to what's your split.
And they're like, 80, 20, 90, 10.
Okay, cool.
Is that before or after?
And I'm like, let's pull up a paystub.
Let's look, let's do the math.
And they're like, oh my God, I've
already found people.
They're like, oh, I guess I'm
85-15, not 90-10.
And I'm like, oh, contraire,
you're not 85-15.
You're 84.35, 15.65 because it's
5% plus tax.
But they didn't know that because
(41:05):
it's not there and they're goingaround telling everyone they're
90-10 or they're thinking they're90-10 when really they're netting
out less than 85-15.
Yeah, it's not there and they're
going around telling everyonethey're 90 10 or they're thinking
they're 90 10 when really they'renetting out less than 85 50 yeah
it's wild and then you have theflip side too and you have
scenarios where there's a lot ofreally really they're netting out
less than 85 50 yeah it's wild andthen you have the flip side too
and you have scenarios wherethere's a lot of really honest
(41:26):
transparent people who are payingout all these volume bonuses and
stuff like that i remember thefirst time i got a volume bonus i
messaged scott it was when i wasat bricks and i was like hey man
like it's kind of awkward but likeyou guys paid me too much.
Like I'm just getting started.
So I'm happy to take it.
But like, there's an error beenmade.
I don't want to be that guy tonever come clean about it.
(41:48):
And he's like, it's a volumebonus.
I'm like, what are you talkingabout?
Like what's the efficiency?efficiency?
Oh, it was a volume.
It was a volume bonus.
it was a It was a volume bonus.
That was Island B mortgage pros.
Yeah.
Undertango.
Funny how Under Yeah.
Yeah.
Tango.
Funny how everything comes full
circle.
So there you go.
Those are a couple of tidbits.
There's obviously more, but we
only got so many hours in the day,but those are some big ones.
Okay.
So you obviously have a
(42:08):
partnership with us through theTango world and that's tied back
to your other partner, JasonHenneberry, who you're working
with on VIP Club, Strategy Hub,and probably have some other stuff
cooking as well.
So why don't we chat a little bit
about your partnership?Because Tom and I are big fans of
forming these alliances in theindustry that create like one plus
one equals three scenarios.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't say enough, man.
So everyone here, you'relistening.
If you don't know JasonHenneberry, as you showed, he
created Lender Spotlight,phenomenal piece of software.
He's a builder.
He's an architect.
He's an operator.
He runs Tango Financial with Dean
Larson and 400 agents, 4 billionvolume plus.
No one ever leaves Tango, by theway, which is crazy.
(42:29):
They just don't leave.
And so you guys started a
brokerage there, Tango Ontario.
You're partnered with Dean and
Jason.
I'm bringing Team Wiley in under
that brokerage in Ontario.
Like I told you, I'm at peace
right now.
I've never been this aligned on
everything in my life and it'sphenomenal.
And a lot of it has to do withHennaberry.
(42:50):
He is a guy I cold called andoffered an opportunity to with VIP
club.
And I'd been using his doc assist,
one of his services before, but Ididn't really know him.
And I called, called him with anopportunity and he jumped on it
and we became partners.
And I quickly saw how he operated.
And then I was sort of like,didn't know what I was going to do
in the coaching space as much.
(43:10):
And he had started a strategy hub
and he pitched an idea to me.
And I was like, that actually
checks a lot of the boxes.
So then I came in and partnered
with him in strategy hub.
That was about a little less than
a year ago, became partners there.
And now we've spent time together
and travel together and done allthese things.
And now mortgage team isinevitably coming under his
(43:36):
brokerage and your guys brokerage.
And so, yeah, with him, I know
what I'm getting.
I love it.
We have similar strengths, but wealso, we have other things we're
good at.
And he is an operator.
He checks a lot of boxes.
First and foremost, he's a family
guy.
I'm a family guy above everything
else.
And that's easy to say.
It's very cliche, but I actuallyfulfill that.
So to see moral compass is set,right?
He's wired the right way.
He's been building phenomenal
relationships in the industry forso many years.
He plays the long game.
I'll come to him with a thing.
Hey, what do we do?And he's like, we got this.
It's calm.
He's like, yeah, we're going to do
this.
(43:56):
And we're going to do that.
It's okay.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so he puts me at ease and atpeace with a lot of things there
too.
And I'm like, okay.
And then he does what he says he'sgoing to do.
I've never met someone so busywhere he's like, oh yeah, I'll get
that to you.
I'm thinking that's like three
days.
And like 10 minutes later, I get
an email with the thing he said.
And I'm like, that's refreshing.
Someone does what they say they'regoing to do.
I'm like, that's cool.
(44:16):
So on a lot of different levels,
and then he's just like a gooddude and we get along.
He's wired the right way for me.
And my wife loves him.
He's stayed at our house.
So it's all those things.
So he's a phenomenal partner.
Everything I'm doing from Team
Wiley to Strategy Hub to VIP Club,we're all moving in the same
direction.
And that's what I want.
(44:37):
Yeah.
Isn't it crazy how it all sprung
from one phone call?My first phone call in the call in
the industry was to Scott Beckfordto say, Hey, I've got an idea to
start a calling company.
He's like, that's on my whiteboard
right now.
Let's do it.
So we did it.
We got investors.
We pitched it.
All of a sudden we're traveling
across Canada, pitching it.
(44:58):
And then we make a bunch of calls.
And then I buy VIP club.
And then my next cold call like
that is to Henneberry to partnerwith me on VIP because I don't
know what I'm doing.
And so it's funny.
Those two, they lean into the nextone.
They came from cold calls for meputting myself out there and
going, hey, with an opportunity.
It's just crazy how that works.
(45:19):
So yeah, now here we are.
And I wouldn't be where I am
without him.
And you guys are partnered with
him.
So you see it firsthand.
But yeah, he's awesome.
So not enough good things to say
about him.
I could keep going, but I won't.
Short podcast.
But yeah, phenomenal.
Great business partner to have.
Yeah, we've noticed the same.
It's funny you said the point ofjust getting things done have yeah
(45:41):
we've noticed the same it's funnyyou said the point of just getting
things done so quickly because wehad the same thought we're like
how the fuck does this guy get somuch shit at the end of the day
it's a rain you know as get somuch shit at the end of the day
it's a rain you know as it like onthe phone with you yeah i'll send
that to you and typically if i'mon the phone with you said yeah
(46:01):
i'll send that i rethink about itlater that night or the next
morning they go oh yeah i'm gonnado that nope his thing comes in
and i'm like, Whoa, that's asuperpower.
Yeah, it is a superpower.
Yeah, good stuff.
Well, Ryan, thank you so much forcoming on today.
I know we touched on a lot ofdifferent points.
So a lot of the podcasts, we liketo do a little recap at the end,
(46:22):
this one, there's quite a bit torecap.
So I'm just going to touch on somehighlights that I had.
Really, I loved seeing sort of howyou transitioned and made that
lifestyle design choice in yourpersonal life to get out of the
book of business and focus on whatactually fulfilled you.
And obviously, I love what you'redoing with the team side and
showing people what they'remissing and how to get to that
(46:44):
next level, finding the rightpartners, picking up the phone and
getting those relationships outthere.
And then just appreciate youshining a light on some of the
hidden nuances and mysteries inthe space and sort of what gets
tucked in the corners or hiddenbehind the curtain.
So thank you for coming on andshining a light on those today.
Yeah, you got it, man.
I appreciate you having me.
I have one last thing to say.
If you are a mortgage agent, you
(47:05):
have a team, a franchise, a youwant to start a a a brokerage,
brokerage, team, franchise, youwant to start a team, doesn't
matter.
You have the best model going.
But if you are one of those peopleand you don't think you're getting
the value where you're at, youcan't put your finger on the value
you're getting.
There's not enough transparency.
Or if you're stuck and you justdon't know how to up your game,
(47:25):
how to get from the next level foryour mortgage business, or you're
just curious.
You're like, hmm, it's probably in
my best interest to just hearwhat's going on over there.
Go check out IamRyanWiley.com orgo to my link in my bio on
Instagram and you'll see there'llbe something up there by the time
this is up.
There'll be a webinar, 15, 20
(47:46):
minute webinar walking you throughwhat team Wiley is all about.
And if you even qualify.
Okay.
So that's all I got to say.
And broker owners out there,
you've been warned.
It's time to up your fricking game
because I'm coming.
I'm going to eat your lunch.
Up your fucking game boys.
Let's go.
Love it.
Love Love it.
I'm fired up.
Let's go, man.
Let's go.
Game time.
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