February 26, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, I share 2 massive mistakes I see brokers make all the time that have a huge impact on their business, and what you can do to mitigate these mistakes moving forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to the Mortgage GamePodcast.
West Coast Wiley coming at youlive from a parking lot.
Yes, indeed.
A parking lot.
My kids go in.
(00:49):
They play so much soccer.
So much soccer.
I can't watch every practice.
So I usually sit out half of itand then go in for the other half.
But when I'm, I'm not just sittinghere and doing nothing.
I'm sitting here doing podcasts orfollowing up with people on
Instagram or emailing people back,or I'm just following up, people
back, or I'm just following up,staying connected, staying in
(01:11):
touch, staying, keeping thetentacles out there.
Or I could sit there and watchpractice for an hour and a half,
or I can come here and doproductive things and then go in,
right.
And watch the game at the end.
So that's what I'm doing.
Okay.
Okay.
Talk about a couple of things
here.
And these are things that are
just.
Man, I'm just always, my brain's
always, always, always firing offaround all these things.
And I'm seeing them happen livetime around me, in front of me.
(01:33):
I'm seeing people, I'm seeingpeople not do it.
And there's two massive, massivemistakes I see people make all the
time.
I see brokers make all the time,
more specifically.
Before we get into that, this
podcast is brought to you byAmericano.
Oh, they want a couple shout outstoday.
It's going to be a couple of thosejust warning you.
So mistake number one, I have likea list of 50 mistakes, but these
(01:59):
are two big mistakes.
Mistake number one.
So I'll talk to a broker and we'llbe like, okay, let's identify your
VIP referral partners.
Let's see who those are.
And, oh, I got these three people.
They send me a lot of deals.
Okay, cool.
And are there other people that,
stragglers, they've sent youstuff.
you know they're doing otherbusiness you're not getting
(02:19):
introduced to all their clientsjust some once in a while you
don't really know what's going onyou've maybe had a phone call
maybe lunch maybe coffee with themuh you see them around maybe a
little bit but like those type howmany of those um we've got four or
five okay so they couldpotentially be vips yeah 100 okay
so what should what do you want totalk about today uh i want to talk
about i want to build a system togo and get other realtors.
(02:44):
Okay.
Well, there is no system for that.
There's a process you could followover and over again.
And then six to 12 months later,you'll potentially have some
really good realtors giving you ashot.
Is that what you mean?Because people think you sent a
text out to a realtor and you'relike, yeah, why didn't they?
No one responded.
This doesn't work.
(03:05):
It's like you sent one text, gosend a thousand and then come back
and talk to me.
But let's get back to the point.
So do you think, so then I alwayspose this question, do you think
your time is better suited tryingto connect with people who don't
know you and get them to trust youwith one of their clients or their
database?Or do you think your time is
(03:26):
better suited building therelationship with those eight
realtors, the three you currentlyalready have locked down, so to
speak, and the other four or fivewho already know you and have
already maybe even sent you a leador two or a deal?
Where do you think your time isbest spent?
Yeah.
Okay.
And so a lot of us, we're outthere.
(03:46):
We're trying to go meet newpeople.
And this isn't just referralpartners.
You're putting all this energy totry to get strangers to work with
you, strangers to partner withyou, which is awesome because you
do have to do that.
At some point in your career, you
have to do that.
The longer you get in your career,
if you actually build a business,You don't have to do that.
(04:06):
Maybe one off here and there, butyou really don't.
You'll just start having a lot ofpeople refer you business if you
set up your business right.
Okay, but early on, you have to do
this.
And so it's shocking to me how
many brokers don't look aroundtheir current world and go, I'm
just going to tighten all this up.
And then if you don't like what
(04:29):
that looks like, if you don't likethe answers you're getting, if you
don't like the business you'regetting, then you go out.
But before you go and startknocking on strangers' doors via
phone call, DM, whatever, focus onthe people around you.
This is your clients.
This is your current referral
partners, the people you've metsomewhere.
that you met at a conference, thatyou met on a real estate team,
(04:51):
that you, right?So it's so bizarre to me.
to me.
This is just because all of our
brains work differently.
My brain always, always, always
goes to who do I know around me?Who have I already had?
I've got a fingerprint on themsomewhere.
(05:12):
I'm going to go do that.
So a lot of you are out there
scrambling.
going, I don't have business.
It's always going to be that way.
There's always going to be 90 % of
you going, I don't have business.
And what?
Okay.
Have you called your database?
(05:33):
Right?Have you emailed them every week?
Have you called your database?I'm not even talking referral
partners.
I'm talking clients.
I'm trying to get strangers offthe street to work with you on
their mortgage.
You're putting energy in over
there, which cool.
Yes.
I love that you're doing that.
But before you do that, prioritize
your energy.
It needs to go to the people who
(05:54):
know your name.
Have you call your database once a
quarter?They pick up the phone one out of
every three times if you're lucky.
So that means if you call them
four times a year, you're going totalk to them one and a quarter.
Talk to them one to two times ayear.
That.
(06:14):
You calling your database,
checking in, and there's otherbetter ways to check in.
Listen to another episode.
I walked through that, I think two
or three back.
That is better, way better time
spent than trying to get completestrangers to work with you.
And now don't forget, when you'reconnecting with your database,
(06:34):
they have friends.
They have family members.
You.
are better off connecting, asking
if they need help, and then askingfor their help.
Hey, I track people's mortgages.
I'm here to make sure you're not
paying more than you should be onyour mortgage.
And so I'm just confirming theinformation I have is correct
because sometimes the data justgets mixed up or it's not accurate
(06:58):
because I don't know what'shappening.
I haven't talked to you in awhile.
Duh.
So, hey, do you know what your
mortgage is?No.
Okay.
I'm going to send you an email
with the info and then I'll trackit for you.
(07:22):
Okay.
So that's why I'm calling.
Do you have any mortgage questionsfor me, by the way?
Well, I gotcha.
Blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
Oh, what do we do?
No. Or no, I don't.
Or yeah, we were thinking about
doing that.
Like these are how these calls go
down.
And then guess what?
The end of the call.
Hey, before I let you go.
I'd love if you could make anintroduction.
Is there anyone in your world thatyou think would benefit from my
(07:42):
services?I love an intro.
Why wouldn't you ask that?When people ask you that, how do
you feel?If you did a good job, I'm like,
oh yeah, man, 100%.
You just triggered.
I want to help.
People want to help.
More people want to help you thannot.
But you need to flip the switch intheir brain on.
They're not walking around going,How can I get Ryan a mortgage?
How can I get Ryan?How can I get more clients to run?
They're not doing that.
(08:03):
But in the moment, if you call me
and the experience I had with youwas really good, and you ask me,
you come at me with value, andthen you flip it on the end and
you ask for help, I'm going to belike, oh, yeah.
(08:26):
And right in the way, my brainjust does a full 360 around it.
I start scraping my brain for anymortgage or real estate
conversations I've had or I know.
And then for... A short amount of
time after that call, I don't knowhow long, it could be weeks, could
be days.
If something comes up, you're top
of mind -ish.
So tell me that there's a better
(08:46):
use of your time, right?I have feelings around where to
use your time and in your businessand whatnot.
And you trying to get strangers towork with you versus that, I don't
understand that calculation.
I don't understand how people
default to that.
The people who've already trusted
you.
given you at least you've given
them free advice on a phone callyou've they've given you a sin
number and pulled credit and runthat you know controlled the
(09:08):
largest debt in their lives thispodcast is brought to you by
americano i wish i could reachthrough this podcast and like grab
you and shake you and then likepull you over to your database and
pick up your phone and dial andgiven you a sin number and pulled
credit and run that you knowcontrolled the largest debt in
their lives this podcast isbrought to you by wish i could
(09:31):
reach through this podcast andlike grab you and shake you and
then like pull you over to yourdatabase and pick up your phone
and dial and Like make the callusing an AI software in your
voice.
Like I wish I, and just, and do
300 of those.
And then you'll be like, oh yeah,
(09:51):
Ryan, I get it now.
I get it now.
This is just what I'm going to do.
And then referral partners.
You've got these referral partnerswho are sitting there who have
tried you out or for whateverreason, you're not their guy or
girl.
Well, guess what?
Guess what problem you have?Guess what happened there?
I'll give you three seconds toguess.
One steamboat, two steamboat,three steamboat.
Your relationship's not goodenough.
Your relationship with the peoplethat are sending you all the deals
is really good.
Don't sleep on that though.
Do not sleep on that relationship.
You need to keep building a fence
around those VIP, I'm using airquotes, VIP brokers.
(10:12):
the three that are sending you alot of deals, don't just take for
granted that you're the person.
You still need to keep that
relationship going.
However, whatever version you have
of that.
I have a thing that I do.
I've went over it on otherpodcasts, but if we have time,
I'll talk about it.
That works 1 ,000 ,000 % and
(10:34):
brokers on my team are using itand it's working extremely well
where they're like, Ryan, I gottwo applications today.
I'm like, go figure.
Go fucking figure.
Really?Like, I'm not shocked.
I'm just like, And they're like,yeah, I get it.
I'm like, yeah, go do that.
Go do this and then do that.
Oh, it worked.
(10:55):
Really interesting.
So you're telling me that therealtor that sent you two clients
in the past 12 months and you'veknown them for 18 months and you
know, they're doing other businessbecause you can see it.
You just know they're doing workthat you calling them.
connecting with them and saying,hey, I want to take you out for
lunch.
And then you go for lunch and you
(11:15):
break bread in your belly tobelly, see the whites of their
eyes, you connect on a level, yourrelationship.
They send you two live deals.
Really?
Go figure.
Interesting.
Right?It's one of those things.
So before you start spending yourenergy over there with referral
partners who don't have a fuckingclue who you are, go look in your
(11:35):
world of who knows your name.
So you've got your VIP and then
you have your not so VIP, but theycould be VIP.
So identify the eight and thenbuild a plan around it.
Build a plan.
Use your common sense brain.
How do I make my relationshipsbetter?
I don't know.
Put some effort in.
(11:57):
Act like you care.
Like I said, I've got things to do
that we do there, but that's notwhat I want this podcast to be
about.
You can go find that in other
stuff.
Maybe if we have time, I'll talk
about it.
It's super simple stuff, but it
works very, very well.
But why don't we do that?
(12:17):
Right?So it's so intriguing to me that,
so intriguing to me that, and thenguess what?
You have your VIP realtors, yourthree or four.
Have you ever asked them?Because realtors, no realtors.
I don't know if you know that ornot.
Realtors, no other realtors.
Have you ever asked the people who
already trust you with theirclients?
(12:37):
Hey.
Do you have like another rockstar
agent like you?You know my personality.
Do you know who I jive with?You know what I do.
You and I, we're good.
You're like, is there someone else
you know?Would you mind making an intro for
me?Right?
Why wouldn't you ask that?That's always baffled me too.
I was doing that all the time.
(12:57):
All the freaking time.
Because it worked both ways.
I would always get introductions,
but I would also not getintroductions to the nut bars
because I'd be like, no nut bars.
I don't want any nut bars, okay?
You folks are a quirky breed, therealtors, and they know that.
And this is how I talk to myrealtor.
You guys are a quirky breed, man.
And so I don't want the nut bars.
(13:19):
Can you save me that time, right?So it's going to save me time not
prospecting nut bars.
They're going to just cut through
that noise.
So that was mistake number one.
But this podcast is brought to youby Americana.
See how I just change up mymonotone voice to like different
types of monotone voice with allthese different characters.
(13:40):
It's such a talent.
Okay, so mistake number two now.
So mistake number one is trying toget strangers to work with you
when you haven't even exhaustedyour current circle.
Okay, clients and referralpartners and ask people.
Don't forget, like if you're notasking people, once again, I want
to shake you.
(14:00):
Ask people want to help.
If they like you, they want tohelp you.
It's that simple equation.
People like you, they want to help
you, but you have to flip theswitch on in their brain.
Why would they be walking aroundthinking how they can help your
business?They're not wired like that.
Nobody is.
So flip the switch on.
For a moment's time, flip theswitch on.
(14:21):
Guess what?The switch is going to get flipped
off again.
The breakers, it's going to break.
It's going to flip.
So there you go.
Mistake number two.
If you just did this, what I'm
telling you here, like, and youcommitted to doing this, you can
change your business.
And mistake number two, same
thing.
It's shocking how many people drop
(14:43):
the ball on this.
And it's basic, basic, basic,
basic shit.
Lack of follow -up.
Yeah, following up in everysituation, situation, personal and
business, the follow -up.
He or she who follows up wins the
game, right?You meet a realtor for lunch, you
follow up.
Thanks for the launch.
It was so nice connecting withyou.
I love what you're doing with theXYZ.
(15:06):
Anyways, I'm going to keep intouch.
I'm not going to be like, We'llkeep until like, I'm just giving
you like lame.
They're pretty lame examples.
I gave you there, but like justsomething as basic.
And then guess what?I'm going to text that person
again, but I'm not going to belike, how's business?
How are you doing?Do you have a good weekend?
Like, don't text me that either.
(15:27):
I hate getting those texts.
It's like, ah, and I usually don'trespond.
And then they just think I don'tlike them.
It's like, no, your fuckingquestion was lame as shit.
And it's a waste of my time.
So ask me something right to the
point.
Did you get that drip campaign set
up?Did you put into, how is the new
(15:53):
lead generation campaign we talkedabout?
How is it working?Are you getting the conversions
that you wanted to get?Don't be the person, and this is,
geez, now I'm going off topichere, but it's okay.
We're going to bring it back tofollow up.
(16:13):
But don't be the person at theparty that's going around just
going, what do you do?Hey, what's your name?
What do you do?Like, Oh my gosh.
It's like jazz it up a bit.
Like, Hey, is there anything
exciting you're working on rightnow?
Say that to a stranger.
Oh yeah.
Like all of a sudden it's aboutthem.
They're going to, I'm going toDave, you asked me that.
(16:34):
I'm like, Oh yeah.
Build the mortgage team.
I fricking, I don't think I'veever been happier than where I am
right now.
And like, someone did ask me this.
It was actually at a, it was at aneighborhood party.
And then he actually asked that.
He said, and I've only met the guy
once before at the previous year'sparty.
And he always stands out becausehe always asks the most
(16:57):
interesting questions.
And he's a smart dude running a
very successful company.
He's the CEO.
He's doing phenomenal.
And I thought that trigger right
there, he asked that the way heasked the question.
And he asked, what's the mostexciting thing you're working on
right now, is what he said.
And I was like, wow.
What an intelligent question.
Because everyone else was boring
the fuck out of me.
And he asked that.
And I was like, dude, you're OK.
(17:19):
OK, you're my people.
Let's talk.
And I chat with him for half hour.
And then I flipped the script onhim.
And I started talking about whathe and I'm like, oh, my God.
And what he was working on wouldactually what he's built would
benefit all mortgage brokers.
It's kind of crazy.
But it was one of the coolestthings I've ever talked to someone
(17:40):
about.
But I'll start with that question.
So that's a sidebar, but that'sokay.
That was a good sidebar.
I'm proud of that sidebar.
I can live with that.
I feel you got value there.
Just please don't be those people.
Send out the lame question stuff.
But the follow -up, the power ofthe follow -up, the power of the
follow -up.
If you show up to a webinar, guess
(18:01):
what happens after the webinar?Now I've got my singing voice on.
This podcast is brought to you byAmericana.
After the webinar, you're going toget a recording of the webinar.
And I'm going to give you a videotalking about one of the slides in
the webinar.
And then guess what happens three
days later after the webinar?You're going to get another email,
(18:22):
email number two.
And it's going to be a case study
of someone who I helped withwhatever the webinar was about.
What their problem was, thesolution I presented, and then
what the outcome was.
problem, solution, outcome,
framework, and with a call toaction to do what I need them to
do, which is book a call on mycalendar.
And then guess what?Three days later, they're going to
get another email.
And it's going to be the same.
(18:43):
It's going to be a case studyshowing.
And guess what?I'm also going to have in there a
testimonial.
I don't know why I'm singing.
I don't know why I'm singing.
But yeah, follow up, follow up.
So that's a webinar.
And then guess what?
Guess what?Drum roll plays.
It doesn't stop there.
But I get them the three emails
after the webinar about stuffabout the webinar.
(19:04):
And then I take their email andtheir name and I zap them over to
my master list.
And it triggers them going through
my master drip, which is abouttalking about a wider version of
things.
And I'm going to get them
eventually.
And that's I'm talking to you.
(19:24):
This is like the mortgage.
This is for a mortgage broker.
This is the model.
So that's the follow -up.
If you follow up, the money's notmade in the show.
It's made in the follow -up.
Money's not made on your discovery
call.
It's made in the follow -up,
right?Staying in touch, following up all
around you, letting people knowyou listen to what they said.
(19:46):
Hey, I'm just checking in.
Everybody, it seems like everybody
out there is fuckingscatterbrained.
There's a bunch of people winginglife.
running around and i don't know ifi'm just seeing it that way i
don't know if it's evolved to thati don't know if i'm just i got
like certain goggles on i'mlooking around but everyone feels
like everybody is scatterbrainedand they're just like drinking
from fire hoses left right andcenter from personal and business
(20:10):
and life and health and mindsetand depression and and then the
good stuff and just like it's justlike it's like one big costco
that's what it feels like And soyou following up with people in
whatever realm all around you,you're doing them a favor.
You're keeping their thoughtsorganized around mortgages.
You're literally doing them afavor.
You're like a reminder that goesoff on their phone.
(20:32):
Oh, yeah, it's the mortgage guy.
The mortgage girl is followed up.
They're asking that question.
They want to see if I need help or
they're seeing where the thing is.
And they're wondering if we want
to.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
So want to do it.
Yeah.
Thank you for following up.
People do that to me.
I'm like, oh man, I appreciate thefollow up.
(20:53):
I really do.
You're like a reminder for me.
I'm not like, what the hell?The nerve of you to follow up with
me.
What the heck?
Sending me an email.
I am offended.
Like you piece of shit.
I got a potty mouth this morning.
Like, how dare you stay in touchwith me?
(21:14):
Send me a text.
And then you send me a voice memo
explaining something you're doingand how you help someone else.
I don't want to hear how you'rehelping people and you showing me.
And then you send me a video.
Did you seriously just send me a
video where you broke down how yousaved another family $17 ,000?
Like the nerve of you to send thatto me.
(21:35):
Why the hell do you think I'd wantto see that?
Man, like really?Is that what you're thinking?
Follow up.
Like it's all around you.
There's breadcrumbs everywhere.
But you're trying to go get these
out.
And then you, so a lot of you are
(21:56):
doing these awesome things.
You're putting yourself out there.
You're boom, boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom.
But then it's like silence.
Think about it.
When you are, I've got a bunch ofmortgage brokers prospecting
realtors right now.
So I'm going to give you a couple
of examples.
Before I do though, this podcast,
don't know if you know, it'sbrought to you by Americana.
they gave me a venti.
Okay.
I got a drink before it gets cold.
Like this isn't my fault.
Um, and they pay for the show.
(22:19):
Like it's a big budget here.
Um, so they're prospectingrealtors and they started with
phone calls and they shifted gearsto DMS cause people weren't
picking up the calls and that'sjust the story they're telling
themselves, but whatever.
And they sent it out.
I remember we talked after and I'mlike, they're like, yeah, I didn't
(22:42):
get anyone.
I said, okay.
Like, and then what did you do?I didn't, uh, yeah, I didn't do
anything.
Okay, so you thought because you
typed out two -sentence texts andthen you copied that, then you
pasted that somewhere else andthen you sent it.
Like, do you think they owe yousomething?
(23:02):
Like, shit, you send that to me?I'm like, I'm not responding.
I'm like, that's like step one of50.
I got to keep following up withthem, right?
I'm going to hit them with a voicememo.
I'm going to hit them with avideo.
I'm going to have public servicenow.
I'm going to show stuff in myprocess.
I'm going to show my screen in avideo.
I'm going to record and I'm goingto be scrolling through.
(23:23):
I'm like, hey, just want to letyou know, I just pre -approved.
These clients came to me thinkingthey were pre -approved for 500
was the cap.
And when I reworked the numbers
and we restructured some of theirdebt, I now got them to 560 and
they can afford it.
And so this is what I do.
You know, and these clients arehappy now.
They can actually.
find properties in that price
(23:43):
range.
So I'm just letting you know,
that's how I take care.
I would take care of your clients.
Anyways, have a great day andboom.
And that could be a recorded videothat you fire off.
And that's number two, three,four, five DM text, whatever to
the referral partner.
So over and over and over again,
follow up.
Do you think realtors who are in
the same game, same commissiongame, they're like their
businesses or our industries arevery much aligned in a lot of
(24:07):
ways, definitely in how we earnmoney.
They're taught to follow up withpeople.
It's hammered into their brain waymore than the mortgage industry.
We dropped the ball on that.
And so they don't.
But do they do it?Heck no. But they know how the
game is played.
They know what they need to do.
They're just lazy.
They don't want to do it.
(24:29):
But they know.
So when you do it to them, if you
just drop off, they're like, oh,yeah, another mortgage broker
coming in.
I already know what's going to
happen.
They're going to keep.
And like.
It doesn't take you time and
energy to make these videos and tosend them out like it's seconds.
Right?So you're building up respect when
your follow -up game is on pointwith referral partners and you're
trying to get their business.
You're trying to get your foot in
the door and get into their world.
Your follow -up game is how you
(24:49):
show them that.
If your follow -up game was on
point, there's no way.
You don't build up the opportunity
to connect with a bunch ofrealtors.
What you do after you meet them, Idon't know, depends how good you
are, whatever you're pitching.
We're not talking about that, but
you're just trying to get ameeting.
No one's going to send you a lead.
And if they do, I'm a little
worried.
From that, they're going to want
to meet you.
But saying, you're building up
(25:10):
respect with people.
They're like, yeah, wow.
Hey, I'm going to keep, I'm justletting you know, I'm going to
keep staying in touch with youuntil you tell me to piss off.
And I'm doing that because I wantto show you how persistent I am
and what I would do with yourclients as well.
Right?So anyways, on to this week, this
is what I learned.
I learned about this other
(25:31):
mortgage product.
It's actually something I've known
about for a long time and otherclients taking advantage of it.
It's called the home renovationloan.
And it's actually, I'm not goingto say purchase plus improvement,
but it allows your clients, like,do you have any clients that are
like capped at like 600 andthey're not seeing anything?
Well, what if you looked at?for five or 525 and they could get
75 to a hundred thousand dollarsof renovations and they could roll
(25:51):
that in the mortgage.
Would that open up the amount?
So I've done that.
And so this is what it looks like.
Like that's a video I sent.
That's a voice memo I leave.
Like, would that help any of yourclients jump off the fence?
Like just telling them about that.
That's the type of follow -up you
(26:11):
do.
Okay.
This podcast is getting a littlelong, so I'm going to shut this
down shortly here, but I haveother things to follow up.
Like there's other areas allaround you personally in business.
is just stopping in the moment, inthe day, looking at your texts,
scrolling up and down, looking atyour DMs, who I need to connect
with, who I need to connect with.
And you have to do it in those,
(26:32):
the times like I'm doing rightnow, where I could sit there and
do nothing or I could come out andbe productive.
And so if I wasn't making thispodcast, I find these slivers of
time within my day.
If I wasn't making this podcast,
you're going to hear the truckstart here because I'm going to go
inside.
I just got to drive a little bit.
If I wasn't making this podcast, Iwould be following up with people.
(26:54):
I would be sending voice memos.
I'd be thanking people for
following me on Instagram withvoice memos.
I would be connecting with people,looking through.
I'd be checking out emails.
I'd be, hey, since our last
conversation, has anything changedin your world?
Are you still doing this?Are you still doing that?
Are you still seeing the resultsyou like?
Are you blah, blah, blah?Mental notes of everyone I'm
talking to, all the conversations,all the synergy.
everything.
I'm just going to stay connected
(27:14):
in the moment with it.
So I'm going to shut this down
just because I don't like thesepodcasts getting longer than this.
That is the beauty of these is Iusually get in and out a little
quicker.
I started to ramble on with voices
and singing.
So shut this down, Ryan.
That's it, kids.
That's the mortgage game.
Until next week.
Enjoy your weekend.
Peace out.
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to the Mortgage GamePodcast.
West Coast Wiley coming at youlive from a parking lot.
Yes, indeed.
A parking lot.
My kids go in.
(00:49):
They play so much soccer.
So much soccer.
I can't watch every practice.
So I usually sit out half of itand then go in for the other half.
But when I'm, I'm not just sittinghere and doing nothing.
I'm sitting here doing podcasts orfollowing up with people on
Instagram or emailing people back,or I'm just following up, people
back, or I'm just following up,staying connected, staying in
(01:11):
touch, staying, keeping thetentacles out there.
Or I could sit there and watchpractice for an hour and a half,
or I can come here and doproductive things and then go in,
right.
And watch the game at the end.
So that's what I'm doing.
Okay.
Okay.
Talk about a couple of things
here.
And these are things that are
just.
Man, I'm just always, my brain's
always, always, always firing offaround all these things.
And I'm seeing them happen livetime around me, in front of me.
(01:33):
I'm seeing people, I'm seeingpeople not do it.
And there's two massive, massivemistakes I see people make all the
time.
I see brokers make all the time,
more specifically.
Before we get into that, this
podcast is brought to you byAmericano.
Oh, they want a couple shout outstoday.
It's going to be a couple of thosejust warning you.
So mistake number one, I have likea list of 50 mistakes, but these
(01:59):
are two big mistakes.
Mistake number one.
So I'll talk to a broker and we'llbe like, okay, let's identify your
VIP referral partners.
Let's see who those are.
And, oh, I got these three people.
They send me a lot of deals.
Okay, cool.
And are there other people that,
stragglers, they've sent youstuff.
you know they're doing otherbusiness you're not getting
(02:19):
introduced to all their clientsjust some once in a while you
don't really know what's going onyou've maybe had a phone call
maybe lunch maybe coffee with themuh you see them around maybe a
little bit but like those type howmany of those um we've got four or
five okay so they couldpotentially be vips yeah 100 okay
so what should what do you want totalk about today uh i want to talk
about i want to build a system togo and get other realtors.
(02:44):
Okay.
Well, there is no system for that.
There's a process you could followover and over again.
And then six to 12 months later,you'll potentially have some
really good realtors giving you ashot.
Is that what you mean?Because people think you sent a
text out to a realtor and you'relike, yeah, why didn't they?
No one responded.
This doesn't work.
(03:05):
It's like you sent one text, gosend a thousand and then come back
and talk to me.
But let's get back to the point.
So do you think, so then I alwayspose this question, do you think
your time is better suited tryingto connect with people who don't
know you and get them to trust youwith one of their clients or their
database?Or do you think your time is
(03:26):
better suited building therelationship with those eight
realtors, the three you currentlyalready have locked down, so to
speak, and the other four or fivewho already know you and have
already maybe even sent you a leador two or a deal?
Where do you think your time isbest spent?
Yeah.
Okay.
And so a lot of us, we're outthere.
(03:46):
We're trying to go meet newpeople.
And this isn't just referralpartners.
You're putting all this energy totry to get strangers to work with
you, strangers to partner withyou, which is awesome because you
do have to do that.
At some point in your career, you
have to do that.
The longer you get in your career,
if you actually build a business,You don't have to do that.
(04:06):
Maybe one off here and there, butyou really don't.
You'll just start having a lot ofpeople refer you business if you
set up your business right.
Okay, but early on, you have to do
this.
And so it's shocking to me how
many brokers don't look aroundtheir current world and go, I'm
just going to tighten all this up.
And then if you don't like what
(04:29):
that looks like, if you don't likethe answers you're getting, if you
don't like the business you'regetting, then you go out.
But before you go and startknocking on strangers' doors via
phone call, DM, whatever, focus onthe people around you.
This is your clients.
This is your current referral
partners, the people you've metsomewhere.
that you met at a conference, thatyou met on a real estate team,
(04:51):
that you, right?So it's so bizarre to me.
to me.
This is just because all of our
brains work differently.
My brain always, always, always
goes to who do I know around me?Who have I already had?
I've got a fingerprint on themsomewhere.
(05:12):
I'm going to go do that.
So a lot of you are out there
scrambling.
going, I don't have business.
It's always going to be that way.
There's always going to be 90 % of
you going, I don't have business.
And what?
Okay.
Have you called your database?
(05:33):
Right?Have you emailed them every week?
Have you called your database?I'm not even talking referral
partners.
I'm talking clients.
I'm trying to get strangers offthe street to work with you on
their mortgage.
You're putting energy in over
there, which cool.
Yes.
I love that you're doing that.
But before you do that, prioritize
your energy.
It needs to go to the people who
(05:54):
know your name.
Have you call your database once a
quarter?They pick up the phone one out of
every three times if you're lucky.
So that means if you call them
four times a year, you're going totalk to them one and a quarter.
Talk to them one to two times ayear.
That.
(06:14):
You calling your database,
checking in, and there's otherbetter ways to check in.
Listen to another episode.
I walked through that, I think two
or three back.
That is better, way better time
spent than trying to get completestrangers to work with you.
And now don't forget, when you'reconnecting with your database,
(06:34):
they have friends.
They have family members.
You.
are better off connecting, asking
if they need help, and then askingfor their help.
Hey, I track people's mortgages.
I'm here to make sure you're not
paying more than you should be onyour mortgage.
And so I'm just confirming theinformation I have is correct
because sometimes the data justgets mixed up or it's not accurate
(06:58):
because I don't know what'shappening.
I haven't talked to you in awhile.
Duh.
So, hey, do you know what your
mortgage is?No.
Okay.
I'm going to send you an email
with the info and then I'll trackit for you.
(07:22):
Okay.
So that's why I'm calling.
Do you have any mortgage questionsfor me, by the way?
Well, I gotcha.
Blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
Oh, what do we do?
No. Or no, I don't.
Or yeah, we were thinking about
doing that.
Like these are how these calls go
down.
And then guess what?
The end of the call.
Hey, before I let you go.
I'd love if you could make anintroduction.
Is there anyone in your world thatyou think would benefit from my
(07:42):
services?I love an intro.
Why wouldn't you ask that?When people ask you that, how do
you feel?If you did a good job, I'm like,
oh yeah, man, 100%.
You just triggered.
I want to help.
People want to help.
More people want to help you thannot.
But you need to flip the switch intheir brain on.
They're not walking around going,How can I get Ryan a mortgage?
How can I get Ryan?How can I get more clients to run?
They're not doing that.
(08:03):
But in the moment, if you call me
and the experience I had with youwas really good, and you ask me,
you come at me with value, andthen you flip it on the end and
you ask for help, I'm going to belike, oh, yeah.
(08:26):
And right in the way, my brainjust does a full 360 around it.
I start scraping my brain for anymortgage or real estate
conversations I've had or I know.
And then for... A short amount of
time after that call, I don't knowhow long, it could be weeks, could
be days.
If something comes up, you're top
of mind -ish.
So tell me that there's a better
(08:46):
use of your time, right?I have feelings around where to
use your time and in your businessand whatnot.
And you trying to get strangers towork with you versus that, I don't
understand that calculation.
I don't understand how people
default to that.
The people who've already trusted
you.
given you at least you've given
them free advice on a phone callyou've they've given you a sin
number and pulled credit and runthat you know controlled the
(09:08):
largest debt in their lives thispodcast is brought to you by
americano i wish i could reachthrough this podcast and like grab
you and shake you and then likepull you over to your database and
pick up your phone and dial andgiven you a sin number and pulled
credit and run that you knowcontrolled the largest debt in
their lives this podcast isbrought to you by wish i could
(09:31):
reach through this podcast andlike grab you and shake you and
then like pull you over to yourdatabase and pick up your phone
and dial and Like make the callusing an AI software in your
voice.
Like I wish I, and just, and do
300 of those.
And then you'll be like, oh yeah,
(09:51):
Ryan, I get it now.
I get it now.
This is just what I'm going to do.
And then referral partners.
You've got these referral partnerswho are sitting there who have
tried you out or for whateverreason, you're not their guy or
girl.
Well, guess what?
Guess what problem you have?Guess what happened there?
I'll give you three seconds toguess.
One steamboat, two steamboat,three steamboat.
Your relationship's not goodenough.
Your relationship with the peoplethat are sending you all the deals
is really good.
Don't sleep on that though.
Do not sleep on that relationship.
You need to keep building a fence
around those VIP, I'm using airquotes, VIP brokers.
(10:12):
the three that are sending you alot of deals, don't just take for
granted that you're the person.
You still need to keep that
relationship going.
However, whatever version you have
of that.
I have a thing that I do.
I've went over it on otherpodcasts, but if we have time,
I'll talk about it.
That works 1 ,000 ,000 % and
(10:34):
brokers on my team are using itand it's working extremely well
where they're like, Ryan, I gottwo applications today.
I'm like, go figure.
Go fucking figure.
Really?Like, I'm not shocked.
I'm just like, And they're like,yeah, I get it.
I'm like, yeah, go do that.
Go do this and then do that.
Oh, it worked.
(10:55):
Really interesting.
So you're telling me that therealtor that sent you two clients
in the past 12 months and you'veknown them for 18 months and you
know, they're doing other businessbecause you can see it.
You just know they're doing workthat you calling them.
connecting with them and saying,hey, I want to take you out for
lunch.
And then you go for lunch and you
(11:15):
break bread in your belly tobelly, see the whites of their
eyes, you connect on a level, yourrelationship.
They send you two live deals.
Really?
Go figure.
Interesting.
Right?It's one of those things.
So before you start spending yourenergy over there with referral
partners who don't have a fuckingclue who you are, go look in your
(11:35):
world of who knows your name.
So you've got your VIP and then
you have your not so VIP, but theycould be VIP.
So identify the eight and thenbuild a plan around it.
Build a plan.
Use your common sense brain.
How do I make my relationshipsbetter?
I don't know.
Put some effort in.
(11:57):
Act like you care.
Like I said, I've got things to do
that we do there, but that's notwhat I want this podcast to be
about.
You can go find that in other
stuff.
Maybe if we have time, I'll talk
about it.
It's super simple stuff, but it
works very, very well.
But why don't we do that?
(12:17):
Right?So it's so intriguing to me that,
so intriguing to me that, and thenguess what?
You have your VIP realtors, yourthree or four.
Have you ever asked them?Because realtors, no realtors.
I don't know if you know that ornot.
Realtors, no other realtors.
Have you ever asked the people who
already trust you with theirclients?
(12:37):
Hey.
Do you have like another rockstar
agent like you?You know my personality.
Do you know who I jive with?You know what I do.
You and I, we're good.
You're like, is there someone else
you know?Would you mind making an intro for
me?Right?
Why wouldn't you ask that?That's always baffled me too.
I was doing that all the time.
(12:57):
All the freaking time.
Because it worked both ways.
I would always get introductions,
but I would also not getintroductions to the nut bars
because I'd be like, no nut bars.
I don't want any nut bars, okay?
You folks are a quirky breed, therealtors, and they know that.
And this is how I talk to myrealtor.
You guys are a quirky breed, man.
And so I don't want the nut bars.
(13:19):
Can you save me that time, right?So it's going to save me time not
prospecting nut bars.
They're going to just cut through
that noise.
So that was mistake number one.
But this podcast is brought to youby Americana.
See how I just change up mymonotone voice to like different
types of monotone voice with allthese different characters.
(13:40):
It's such a talent.
Okay, so mistake number two now.
So mistake number one is trying toget strangers to work with you
when you haven't even exhaustedyour current circle.
Okay, clients and referralpartners and ask people.
Don't forget, like if you're notasking people, once again, I want
to shake you.
(14:00):
Ask people want to help.
If they like you, they want tohelp you.
It's that simple equation.
People like you, they want to help
you, but you have to flip theswitch on in their brain.
Why would they be walking aroundthinking how they can help your
business?They're not wired like that.
Nobody is.
So flip the switch on.
For a moment's time, flip theswitch on.
(14:21):
Guess what?The switch is going to get flipped
off again.
The breakers, it's going to break.
It's going to flip.
So there you go.
Mistake number two.
If you just did this, what I'm
telling you here, like, and youcommitted to doing this, you can
change your business.
And mistake number two, same
thing.
It's shocking how many people drop
(14:43):
the ball on this.
And it's basic, basic, basic,
basic shit.
Lack of follow -up.
Yeah, following up in everysituation, situation, personal and
business, the follow -up.
He or she who follows up wins the
game, right?You meet a realtor for lunch, you
follow up.
Thanks for the launch.
It was so nice connecting withyou.
I love what you're doing with theXYZ.
(15:06):
Anyways, I'm going to keep intouch.
I'm not going to be like, We'llkeep until like, I'm just giving
you like lame.
They're pretty lame examples.
I gave you there, but like justsomething as basic.
And then guess what?I'm going to text that person
again, but I'm not going to belike, how's business?
How are you doing?Do you have a good weekend?
Like, don't text me that either.
(15:27):
I hate getting those texts.
It's like, ah, and I usually don'trespond.
And then they just think I don'tlike them.
It's like, no, your fuckingquestion was lame as shit.
And it's a waste of my time.
So ask me something right to the
point.
Did you get that drip campaign set
up?Did you put into, how is the new
(15:53):
lead generation campaign we talkedabout?
How is it working?Are you getting the conversions
that you wanted to get?Don't be the person, and this is,
geez, now I'm going off topichere, but it's okay.
We're going to bring it back tofollow up.
(16:13):
But don't be the person at theparty that's going around just
going, what do you do?Hey, what's your name?
What do you do?Like, Oh my gosh.
It's like jazz it up a bit.
Like, Hey, is there anything
exciting you're working on rightnow?
Say that to a stranger.
Oh yeah.
Like all of a sudden it's aboutthem.
They're going to, I'm going toDave, you asked me that.
(16:34):
I'm like, Oh yeah.
Build the mortgage team.
I fricking, I don't think I'veever been happier than where I am
right now.
And like, someone did ask me this.
It was actually at a, it was at aneighborhood party.
And then he actually asked that.
He said, and I've only met the guy
once before at the previous year'sparty.
And he always stands out becausehe always asks the most
(16:57):
interesting questions.
And he's a smart dude running a
very successful company.
He's the CEO.
He's doing phenomenal.
And I thought that trigger right
there, he asked that the way heasked the question.
And he asked, what's the mostexciting thing you're working on
right now, is what he said.
And I was like, wow.
What an intelligent question.
Because everyone else was boring
the fuck out of me.
And he asked that.
And I was like, dude, you're OK.
(17:19):
OK, you're my people.
Let's talk.
And I chat with him for half hour.
And then I flipped the script onhim.
And I started talking about whathe and I'm like, oh, my God.
And what he was working on wouldactually what he's built would
benefit all mortgage brokers.
It's kind of crazy.
But it was one of the coolestthings I've ever talked to someone
(17:40):
about.
But I'll start with that question.
So that's a sidebar, but that'sokay.
That was a good sidebar.
I'm proud of that sidebar.
I can live with that.
I feel you got value there.
Just please don't be those people.
Send out the lame question stuff.
But the follow -up, the power ofthe follow -up, the power of the
follow -up.
If you show up to a webinar, guess
(18:01):
what happens after the webinar?Now I've got my singing voice on.
This podcast is brought to you byAmericana.
After the webinar, you're going toget a recording of the webinar.
And I'm going to give you a videotalking about one of the slides in
the webinar.
And then guess what happens three
days later after the webinar?You're going to get another email,
(18:22):
email number two.
And it's going to be a case study
of someone who I helped withwhatever the webinar was about.
What their problem was, thesolution I presented, and then
what the outcome was.
problem, solution, outcome,
framework, and with a call toaction to do what I need them to
do, which is book a call on mycalendar.
And then guess what?Three days later, they're going to
get another email.
And it's going to be the same.
(18:43):
It's going to be a case studyshowing.
And guess what?I'm also going to have in there a
testimonial.
I don't know why I'm singing.
I don't know why I'm singing.
But yeah, follow up, follow up.
So that's a webinar.
And then guess what?
Guess what?Drum roll plays.
It doesn't stop there.
But I get them the three emails
after the webinar about stuffabout the webinar.
(19:04):
And then I take their email andtheir name and I zap them over to
my master list.
And it triggers them going through
my master drip, which is abouttalking about a wider version of
things.
And I'm going to get them
eventually.
And that's I'm talking to you.
(19:24):
This is like the mortgage.
This is for a mortgage broker.
This is the model.
So that's the follow -up.
If you follow up, the money's notmade in the show.
It's made in the follow -up.
Money's not made on your discovery
call.
It's made in the follow -up,
right?Staying in touch, following up all
around you, letting people knowyou listen to what they said.
(19:46):
Hey, I'm just checking in.
Everybody, it seems like everybody
out there is fuckingscatterbrained.
There's a bunch of people winginglife.
running around and i don't know ifi'm just seeing it that way i
don't know if it's evolved to thati don't know if i'm just i got
like certain goggles on i'mlooking around but everyone feels
like everybody is scatterbrainedand they're just like drinking
from fire hoses left right andcenter from personal and business
(20:10):
and life and health and mindsetand depression and and then the
good stuff and just like it's justlike it's like one big costco
that's what it feels like And soyou following up with people in
whatever realm all around you,you're doing them a favor.
You're keeping their thoughtsorganized around mortgages.
You're literally doing them afavor.
You're like a reminder that goesoff on their phone.
(20:32):
Oh, yeah, it's the mortgage guy.
The mortgage girl is followed up.
They're asking that question.
They want to see if I need help or
they're seeing where the thing is.
And they're wondering if we want
to.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
So want to do it.
Yeah.
Thank you for following up.
People do that to me.
I'm like, oh man, I appreciate thefollow up.
(20:53):
I really do.
You're like a reminder for me.
I'm not like, what the hell?The nerve of you to follow up with
me.
What the heck?
Sending me an email.
I am offended.
Like you piece of shit.
I got a potty mouth this morning.
Like, how dare you stay in touchwith me?
(21:14):
Send me a text.
And then you send me a voice memo
explaining something you're doingand how you help someone else.
I don't want to hear how you'rehelping people and you showing me.
And then you send me a video.
Did you seriously just send me a
video where you broke down how yousaved another family $17 ,000?
Like the nerve of you to send thatto me.
(21:35):
Why the hell do you think I'd wantto see that?
Man, like really?Is that what you're thinking?
Follow up.
Like it's all around you.
There's breadcrumbs everywhere.
But you're trying to go get these
out.
And then you, so a lot of you are
(21:56):
doing these awesome things.
You're putting yourself out there.
You're boom, boom, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom.
But then it's like silence.
Think about it.
When you are, I've got a bunch ofmortgage brokers prospecting
realtors right now.
So I'm going to give you a couple
of examples.
Before I do though, this podcast,
don't know if you know, it'sbrought to you by Americana.
they gave me a venti.
Okay.
I got a drink before it gets cold.
Like this isn't my fault.
Um, and they pay for the show.
(22:19):
Like it's a big budget here.
Um, so they're prospectingrealtors and they started with
phone calls and they shifted gearsto DMS cause people weren't
picking up the calls and that'sjust the story they're telling
themselves, but whatever.
And they sent it out.
I remember we talked after and I'mlike, they're like, yeah, I didn't
(22:42):
get anyone.
I said, okay.
Like, and then what did you do?I didn't, uh, yeah, I didn't do
anything.
Okay, so you thought because you
typed out two -sentence texts andthen you copied that, then you
pasted that somewhere else andthen you sent it.
Like, do you think they owe yousomething?
(23:02):
Like, shit, you send that to me?I'm like, I'm not responding.
I'm like, that's like step one of50.
I got to keep following up withthem, right?
I'm going to hit them with a voicememo.
I'm going to hit them with avideo.
I'm going to have public servicenow.
I'm going to show stuff in myprocess.
I'm going to show my screen in avideo.
I'm going to record and I'm goingto be scrolling through.
(23:23):
I'm like, hey, just want to letyou know, I just pre -approved.
These clients came to me thinkingthey were pre -approved for 500
was the cap.
And when I reworked the numbers
and we restructured some of theirdebt, I now got them to 560 and
they can afford it.
And so this is what I do.
You know, and these clients arehappy now.
They can actually.
find properties in that price
(23:43):
range.
So I'm just letting you know,
that's how I take care.
I would take care of your clients.
Anyways, have a great day andboom.
And that could be a recorded videothat you fire off.
And that's number two, three,four, five DM text, whatever to
the referral partner.
So over and over and over again,
follow up.
Do you think realtors who are in
the same game, same commissiongame, they're like their
businesses or our industries arevery much aligned in a lot of
(24:07):
ways, definitely in how we earnmoney.
They're taught to follow up withpeople.
It's hammered into their brain waymore than the mortgage industry.
We dropped the ball on that.
And so they don't.
But do they do it?Heck no. But they know how the
game is played.
They know what they need to do.
They're just lazy.
They don't want to do it.
(24:29):
But they know.
So when you do it to them, if you
just drop off, they're like, oh,yeah, another mortgage broker
coming in.
I already know what's going to
happen.
They're going to keep.
And like.
It doesn't take you time and
energy to make these videos and tosend them out like it's seconds.
Right?So you're building up respect when
your follow -up game is on pointwith referral partners and you're
trying to get their business.
You're trying to get your foot in
the door and get into their world.
Your follow -up game is how you
(24:49):
show them that.
If your follow -up game was on
point, there's no way.
You don't build up the opportunity
to connect with a bunch ofrealtors.
What you do after you meet them, Idon't know, depends how good you
are, whatever you're pitching.
We're not talking about that, but
you're just trying to get ameeting.
No one's going to send you a lead.
And if they do, I'm a little
worried.
From that, they're going to want
to meet you.
But saying, you're building up
(25:10):
respect with people.
They're like, yeah, wow.
Hey, I'm going to keep, I'm justletting you know, I'm going to
keep staying in touch with youuntil you tell me to piss off.
And I'm doing that because I wantto show you how persistent I am
and what I would do with yourclients as well.
Right?So anyways, on to this week, this
is what I learned.
I learned about this other
(25:31):
mortgage product.
It's actually something I've known
about for a long time and otherclients taking advantage of it.
It's called the home renovationloan.
And it's actually, I'm not goingto say purchase plus improvement,
but it allows your clients, like,do you have any clients that are
like capped at like 600 andthey're not seeing anything?
Well, what if you looked at?for five or 525 and they could get
75 to a hundred thousand dollarsof renovations and they could roll
(25:51):
that in the mortgage.
Would that open up the amount?
So I've done that.
And so this is what it looks like.
Like that's a video I sent.
That's a voice memo I leave.
Like, would that help any of yourclients jump off the fence?
Like just telling them about that.
That's the type of follow -up you
(26:11):
do.
Okay.
This podcast is getting a littlelong, so I'm going to shut this
down shortly here, but I haveother things to follow up.
Like there's other areas allaround you personally in business.
is just stopping in the moment, inthe day, looking at your texts,
scrolling up and down, looking atyour DMs, who I need to connect
with, who I need to connect with.
And you have to do it in those,
(26:32):
the times like I'm doing rightnow, where I could sit there and
do nothing or I could come out andbe productive.
And so if I wasn't making thispodcast, I find these slivers of
time within my day.
If I wasn't making this podcast,
you're going to hear the truckstart here because I'm going to go
inside.
I just got to drive a little bit.
If I wasn't making this podcast, Iwould be following up with people.
(26:54):
I would be sending voice memos.
I'd be thanking people for
following me on Instagram withvoice memos.
I would be connecting with people,looking through.
I'd be checking out emails.
I'd be, hey, since our last
conversation, has anything changedin your world?
Are you still doing this?Are you still doing that?
Are you still seeing the resultsyou like?
Are you blah, blah, blah?Mental notes of everyone I'm
talking to, all the conversations,all the synergy.
everything.
I'm just going to stay connected
(27:14):
in the moment with it.
So I'm going to shut this down
just because I don't like thesepodcasts getting longer than this.
That is the beauty of these is Iusually get in and out a little
quicker.
I started to ramble on with voices
and singing.
So shut this down, Ryan.
That's it, kids.
That's the mortgage game.
Until next week.
Enjoy your weekend.
Peace out.
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