April 10, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, we're joined by Sylvia Ho. Sylvia, the "cash damming queen", is a Mortgage Broker from the Greater Toronto Area in Ontario, who has revolutionized her mortgage business after over 2 decades in the industry by exclusively focusing on rental cash damming over the past 2 years. Her transformation from a generalist to a specialist showcases how focusing on a specific niche can lead to both professional success and personal fulfillment, as she now manages to take vacations every 6 weeks, while working only 80 hours a month, and never on evenings and weekends.
Sylvia is here to discuss: → Why the focus on rental cash-damming and changing her business model, building a recession-proof business, and how turning away files helps her business. → Transitioning from running a team to to a simplified process with 1 assistant, how she gets quality leads and protects her time, and building expertise through continuous learning and practice. → Prioritizing peace of mind over traditional business opportunities, achieving better work/life balance, and avoiding burnout.
Sylvia Ho's LinkTree: www.linktr.ee/sylviahomortgages
Sylvia Ho's Instagram: @sylviahomortgages
Sylvia Ho's LinkedIn: @SylviaHo
Sylvia Ho's YouTube: @sylviaho7611
Sylvia Ho's Facebook Group: Cash Flow Mastery for Lazy Landlords
Sylvia Ho's Cash Damming Webinar: www.cashdam.ca
To sign up for live events and coaching, visit: www.iamryanwiley.com
What is Strategy Hub? Visit here>>> https://get.mystrategyhub.ca
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to episode of the MortgageGame podcast.
West Coast Wiley here.
And I have a special guest today
coming to you live.
We've got Sylvia Ho.
Hello, Sylvia.
(00:48):
Hello, hello.
Hello.
So Sylvia, we figured we'd have
her on because Sylvia is the cashdam, cash damming or cash dam
queen.
What are we going with?
Cash damming queen.
How about that?
Cash damming queen.
Okay.
So we wanted to have you onbecause I'm going to start with
where your business is at today.
(01:08):
We're just going to get into it
with where your business is attoday.
And then we'll frame it with whereyou were before.
And then we'll have a chat.
I really want anyone listening
here more than ever.
brokers are getting absolutely
crushed by the banks with thetraditional type of brokering, the
brokering of 10 years ago.
And so Sylvia recognized this many
years ago.
She came up with a different
(01:30):
business model and it has sinceevolved.
And so that's what we want to talkto you about today.
And I want some of you just havesome takeaways, some takeaways of,
hey, if she can do it, I can doit.
Maybe I should look a littledifferently and plan a little
differently.
So let's get into it, Sylvia.
You focus on cash jamming,correct?
Yep.
Yep.
That's all I focus on.
on. And so 2024, can you walk me
(01:51):
through the last calendar yearwith just the focus of cash
jamming, what you were able toaccomplish?
Yeah.
So 2024 last year, my goodness,
it's like, feels like a long timeago.
Last year, all I did was rentalcash damming.
I prospected for clients.
I charged them a fee.
I helped them get their propersetup on their mortgage.
And I helped them through settingup rental cash damming.
(02:14):
And that's it.
That was my simple model.
And I loved it because there wasno stress.
There was no stress involved.
It was, hey.
You want to do rental cash dummy?You want to learn about it?
That's great.
Okay, here's my fee.
Pay it.
Okay, let's onboard you.
Let's have a one -hourconversation.
(02:34):
Let's figure out your numbers.
Let's do some analysis.
Let's do a cash flow analysis, amortgage analysis.
Do you have the right product?Okay, if you don't have the right
product, then I'll put on mymortgage agent hat.
And then from there, I get themthe right product.
It closes 30 days later.
And then now we onboard for rental
cash dummy.
Very simple.
That's it.
That's it.
It's just me.
I have one teammate, but they
handle the mortgage side ofthings.
(02:56):
I take care of the rental cashdebbie side of things.
And so you niched out completelyand you made a conscious decision
to do that.
What sort of volumes did you do
last year?Yeah, so my volumes in 2024
dropped significantly from amortgage perspective from 2023 to
2024, because all I did was justfocus on rental cash damming.
So from a mortgage volumeperspective, I would say about 26,
(03:18):
27 mil.
Okay.
And that commission and consultingfees combined.
And here's the drum roll, please.
How many vacations did you take in
2024?My family and I, we took eight
vacations.
It was incredible.
Every month and a half we wereoff.
And when I say off, my friends, Ihonestly mean off.
(03:39):
Like I'm not answering phonecalls.
I'm not answering emails.
I'm not talking to realtors.
I'm not talking to clients.
I'm not talking to lenders.
I'm not talking to underwriters.
I'm not talking to BDMs.
It's just me and my family.
Every month and a half we were
(04:02):
taking off last year.
And I'm like.
I love this.
I really, really, really do.
Well, yeah, you're, you know,quarter million bucks, give or
take.
And eight weeks of vacation,
working with clients where you'renot competing against other people
or banks or so question for you.
I have a bunch of questions here.
But first, what did you do?So someone comes in your world.
from prior clients or whatnot, andthey're not cash damming.
(04:25):
So what did you do with thoseclients?
Well, at first I, so if a clientcame to me and they're like, hey,
Sylvia, I'm just looking formortgage help.
I would analyze to see if there'san opportunity to talk to them
about rental cash damming.
And if it was no opportunity where
it was just a straight mortgage, Iwould say, I'm sorry, I'm not in
(04:51):
that business anymore.
how would business go and as i
talked to other colleagues in thisbusiness they're like sylvia
you're crazy like why would youlet that business go and i go i
don't know like i i just want tostay in my lane like ryan you've
taught me all about you knowstaying in your lane and there's
(05:11):
always lots of shiny objects likethings to focus on things to do
right but it's a muscle just tostay in your lane and so i had to
say no to that business becauseFor me to like really understand
this new line of work or this newfocus, I had to just focus on
that.
So I let the business go.
People said I was crazy and Iprobably left a lot of money on
(05:34):
the table.
But I don't know.
I don't know if you can put aprice tag to peace of mind that
you're like, hey, this is what I'mdoing.
I'm just staying in this lane andI'm charting along this one lane.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Does that answer the question?
Yeah.
No. Hey, it's one of those things.
If you start taking that on, it'slike, where's the line?
(05:56):
Where's the line being drawn?Because at some point you're going
to get pulled back in and you'rereally doing it not because you
like it.
You're doing it for a paycheck.
When in all reality, you couldjust figure out how to go find
more of your rental cash damningtype clients who probably
appreciate you a hell of a lotmore.
Interesting.
And so take me back before, or
actually I have a question, asmall question here first.
(06:18):
How many, how long did it take youto become an expert, enough of an
expert at cash damming before yourealized you could actually run a
whole business solely off cashdamming?
Like when was that aha moment?Was it 10 hours, 50 hours, three
months?Like, can you even think about
that?is a strategy that is very simple
on the surface.
But we all know that, you know,
something simple is notnecessarily that way.
(06:39):
Like there's a lot more layersinvolved.
Even today, like it's been, Istarted in 2023.
So it's been about two years thatI've just been solely focusing on
rental cash damming.
And even to this day, I'm still
learning new things.
Right.
So it's just like in the mortgagebusiness, you're constantly
learning new things all the time,even though even if like I've been
(07:07):
in the mortgage business for 24years, I'm still learning things.
Right.
So I don't know if you can truly
say, I understand it all.
I know I'm really good at it.
I am really good at it.
I can run different scenarios.
Like I've, I've ran over 400different scenarios in just one
(07:28):
year.
Like it's pretty, like I was
looking at my numbers and I waslike, wow, really Sylvia, did you
really do that?But yeah, I did.
And, and it's a learning process.
Okay.
So you can't say, oh, in twoweeks, oh, I learned how to do
this.
I can do a cartwheel now, or I
could just ride a bike and now I'mfine.
(07:49):
Right.
there's there's more so does that
answer that question yeah yeahyeah no it gives me enough i i
think the thing i admire about youand your situation is you're 24
years in the game um you reinventyourself and then you reinvent
yourself again and we'll get tothat first reinvention but then
you reinvent yourself into theniche of cash damming and then you
(08:10):
realize like yeah yeah yeah no itgives me enough i i think the
thing i admire about you and yoursituation is you're 24 years in
the game um you reinvent yourselfand then you reinvent yourself
again and we'll get to that firstreinvention but then you reinvent
yourself into the niche of cashdamming and then you realize like
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm going to figure it out.
And now I know what I'm doing, butI'm still going to figure it out.
(08:33):
And you're still on the learningcurve and you're not like, you're
not telling yourself, I got it.
I'm good.
You're still, I see you in thecalls.
You're still showing up the calls.
You're still asking questions.
You're still helping other peopleanswer questions and you're two
years into it.
So that's.
I admire that because you couldeasily just go can't teach an old
dog new tricks.
Not that you are an old dog, but
it's one of those things rightnow.
I got it figured out.
We're good.
My clients are good.
You're like, hell no. And you're
actually like paying money tolearn how to do the thing and
you're not slowing down.
So I think that's so cool.
A lot of people should look atthat and be like, heck, if she's
doing that two decades in.
Like, what am I doing?
What's my excuse for not wantingto up my game?
(08:55):
So that's my takeaway on that.
Let's go back to before 2024 and
2023, back when you and I firstmet in coaching and whatnot.
So you were a mortgage broker andthen you decided to, I said,
reinvent yourself.
Can you walk me through that first
reinvention?Yeah.
So I think the whole reinventionthing came when you were coaching
me.
And this is more than two years
(09:15):
ago, Ryan.
This was like four years ago.
And you taught me OPA, right?Yeah, one property away for anyone
listening.
Anyway, Anyway, for those who
don't know.
So Ryan teaches how to, why don't
you tell what OPA is?And then I'll continue.
Yeah, Yeah, I showed people how tobuy their first investment
property.
The tagline was, you're one
(09:36):
property away from changing yourlife.
And that's what I did.
I showed people I'll do a standard
refi.
People come to me with a renewal.
And before you knew it, they'dcommit to, they don't want to do
anything outside of pay theirmortgage down.
So then I'd go, hey, why don't youlook at this?
(09:56):
Refi, buy a rental, sell it in 10to 15 years, pay your exit costs,
capital gains, pay off yourprincipal residence.
If you do that or not, it doesn'tmatter.
But that's the concept.
Let's leverage, put yourself the
money to work for you, that debtequity.
And so I built the whole thingaround that.
So that's when I started to teachthat to other brokers.
(10:19):
And that's where you took that andran with it, with your own
program.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I ran with that, uh, loved
it.
And it really gave me a different
perspective on mortgage brokeringthat we don't have to just do
like, Oh, what you want your firsttime?
Well, sure.
I'll do it.
Oh, wait, you're doing a switch.
Sure.
I'll do it.
Like, Oh, what be lending?
Sure.
I'll do it.
Oh, private.
I'll absolutely do it.
And like, I used to be thatbroker, um, not that broker
(10:41):
anymore.
And because I just didn't feel joy
in that.
Right.
Maybe when I was earlier on in myyears.
OK, fine.
But now, as I progress through my
career as a mortgage agent, I Ireally loved your concept, Ryan,
the concept that you taught meabout, you know, specializing with
OPA.
And that's where I'm like, OK, I'm
not doing anything else exceptOPA.
That's it.
That's all I did.
So so that was the first kind oftransformation in my business
(11:04):
where I'm like.
unless you're buying a rental
property, I'm not doing it.
Right.
And that was, that was hard,right.
To say no to like first time homebuyers and other business, but
man, that was tough business.
And I'm like, okay, I'll let other
people do that business.
I got to focus on what I love, my
joy, which was.
teaching people how to invest in
real estate and buy rentalproperties.
(11:25):
And it comes down to my ownpersonal story.
Like I'm a landlord myself.
My mom taught me how to get into
landlord business, right?Like when I bought my first
property, I just graduated fromuniversity and my mom was a real
estate agent.
She took me to go see this house
and she's like, Sylvia, this isperfect.
Let's buy it.
And I'm like, who's buying it?
(11:47):
And I'm like, you are.
I'm like, well, I can't buy this
place, mom.
Like I had $50 ,000 of student
loans.
And then she's like, don't worry
about it.
We'll figure it out.
We'll find a mortgage agent andget it done, right?
I got my job.
I borrowed the 5 % down payment.
I did a 40 -year AM, right?High ratio, right?
Borrowed down payment.
I just needed to come up with a
(12:10):
closing cost.
And that was it.
And that's how I got into realestate.
And then from there, I had thatone property.
I've grown in the number ofproperties that I own as a
landlord.
I own seven properties.
I'm proud to say that because thereason I want to own properties is
for my kids and my grandkids.
We live here in the Toronto area.
It's way too expensive for them tobuy by the time my 13 -year -old
(12:30):
becomes 30 and is ready to buy.
It's going to be New York City.
That's the norm, right?So when you opened up my eyes to
Opa, I was like, I want to helpother families, just like how my
mom helped me.
Very cool.
Very cool.
That was phase one of the change
of subspecializing.
Yeah, there's more to it, but I'll
let you ask your questions.
The cool part is you decide, and
(12:51):
this is what a mistake mostmortgage brokers are making,
right?99 % of mortgage brokers are
making is they haven't identifiedwho they want to serve.
And so because they haven'tidentified who they want to serve,
they're trying to be everything toeveryone.
And then it's really hard to bepassionate, get out of bed in the
(13:13):
morning and keep that going, thatcandle lit for so many hours, so
many days, so many years talkingabout stuff you don't really care
about.
And at some point, I think you
piece that together and it wasjust you and me being introduced
and you hearing my story and whatI was doing, you were like, ooh.
I want that.
That's like, now that gets me out
of bed.
So the fact that you piece that
(13:35):
together and then took it to thenext level of the cash damming, so
cool because you've identified whoyou want to serve and you're
saying no to everybody else.
And that's a gutsy thing to do.
I'm not sure most people can dothat, but you're living proof.
It works.
And in your first year of fully
(13:56):
committed to it, with 26, 27million in comp and eight
vacations.
Heck yeah.
Is that working?Heck yeah.
And I can already tell fromtalking to you now versus knowing
the Sylvia before, like yourstress levels back then, what sort
of team did you have?What sort of team structure did
you have?So I had two full -time
underwriters and I had it in mid-person.
(14:17):
So it was us for a team of four.
We did really well.
We did really, really well withthe whole OPA program.
It was a good oiled machine.
But I got burnt out.
Right.
Like, what was I doing?
Like 4850 in volume.
With three staff that you were on.
Were they on payroll?They were on payroll.
Yeah, that's right there.
That's like every month, right?
Or every two weeks, just ding,ding, ding.
(14:38):
I just felt like I was working tomake sure I could pay their
payroll.
And it was stressful.
Yeah, the commissions came in, theclients came in, the product
worked.
It was great.
But I was stressed.
I was like, I can't keep doing
this.
This is not going to work.
(14:59):
And then that is when ratesstarted going up.
And when rates go up, we all knowpeople are not buying investment
properties anymore.
They can barely pay their owner
occupied home.
Right.
So 2022, give or take right now.
Yeah.
The third, fourth quarter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was it was pretty bad.
And to be honest, I was pretty
(15:20):
depressed.
I was just like, I I don't know
how I'm going to do this.
Right.
And that's where I was like, OK.
I need to do that adjustment.
And I think you call it, Irecession -proofed my business,
right?No.
Right.
Where I made that adjustment, I
(15:42):
let my team go.
They're gone.
I have one admin person right nowwho does like just my mortgage
stuff, but she's on per piecemeal,not a salaried individual.
And that was 2022, 2023.
So the first six months in 2023,
that's where I'm like, okay.
I'm going to do cash damming.
I need to figure this out.
Strategy Hub, Jason taught me and
(16:02):
I'm like, okay, I'm going to learnthis really, really well.
And I started getting my foot wetand yeah, it was, it was that,
that was the transition.
So yeah.
So it's been June of this year.
It'll be two years.
And I'm loving what I'm doing,Ryan.
Like I'm, I track what I do now.
(16:23):
And I'm working 80 hours a month.
That's 20 hours a week.
So you're working 20 hours a week,
taking the vacations, working withclients you want to work with, not
competing on rate and gettingcrushed by the banks.
I love that you're, it's easiersaid than done.
We always hear like the onlyconstant is change and your
(16:44):
business needs to evolve.
You are living proof of you
evolving your business real timewith what's going on out there.
A lot of other brokers are sittingthere using the same old tricks.
I'm going to win this on customerservice.
And I answer the phone when peoplecall.
And I'm like, I'm Ned Flanders.
People just like me and work with
(17:05):
me.
And it's like, oh, God, that is
you're going to get crushed.
Your lunch is going to get eaten
if that is your model.
And we're just at the beginning of
it.
So I love that you evolved it and
you took.
three steps back and you went into
learn mode.
(17:25):
You went into like reinventing
yourself is what you did.
That's pretty cool.
Like if you think about it, you'reletting staff go, you're letting
the volumes go.
You're clearly identifying your
avatar and who you want to serve.
And now you're coming, this is you
coming out of the other side of itand you're just getting started.
(17:46):
Your stress levels are down.
I'm guessing you're probably more
present for your husband and yourkids.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
And they probably, just eightvacations.
You're doing more of what Sylviawants to do, working with the
people.
Like, it's like, oh my goodness.
So, so cool.
I have mad respect.
I have mad respect for what you'redoing.
So do you have anything else youwant to add in there before I
(18:09):
switch gears a little?I think the thing that I learned
from you, Ryan, through all theyears that you've coached me is
the fact that It is thespecialization, you know, and
doing the same thing over and overagain and simplifying it.
Right.
I think as mortgage agents, we
make things too.
We make things complicated.
Do you agree?We make things complicated.
(18:30):
Right.
When you're like, it's really like
I love how you when you coach me,like you're always like, well,
it's just this.
Just do this.
just do this that's it that's itlet's just do this and i'm like
really you're like yeah just justdo this and then i'm like oh okay
ryan's right it worked okay got itokay just do this right and just
do more of that yeah exactlyexactly do do more of the same
(18:55):
thing right but make sure thething that you're doing is the
thing that you love to do yeahyeah yeah and then go find more
people that you want to do thething with um so do more of that
exactly exactly do do more of thesame thing right but make sure the
(19:15):
thing that you're doing is thething that you love to do and then
go find more people that you wantto do the thing with um so Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
You've got, you had referral
partners before.
They were referring you business.
Now that you've shifted gears tothis sort of avatar with rental
(19:38):
cash jamming, are those referralpartners, are they still, like, is
it resonating with them?Do you still have relationships
with them?Are they still sending some
business in?Like, where do you stand with your
past referral partners?Yeah, that's very interesting that
you asked me.
My 24 years of doing mortgages,
I... was only past referrals frompast clients.
(19:58):
I did not have a database of realestate agents that I worked with
where I was smoothing, buildingrelationships, having
conversations.
I don't even know one real estate
agent that refers to me business.
I think my, yeah, so I didn't have
that.
My business is solely built on
past clients referring people tome.
I remember this one call.
It was so funny.
I got onto the call with this oneclient and I'm like, yeah, I can
(20:22):
definitely help you, but hold onfor a second.
Like, how did you get my contactdetails?
And she's like, oh, it was areferral from a friend.
And I was like, oh, could I havetheir name?
Cause I like to thank them.
And cause I only work on referrals
only.
And all I can hear was her.
typing away in the background,trying to find a name that was
related to me.
And I don't even know if she was
making it up or not.
And I'm not saying this to boast.
I'm just saying that as mortgageagents, we want to spend our time
wisely.
We want to spend our time not with
(20:43):
the rate shoppers, but with theindividuals that truly value the
experience and the knowledge andthe advice that you give.
Right.
So if this lady was a rate
shopper, then I would have been,you know what, I'm not the right
person for you.
I would recommend, you know, going
(21:04):
to your branch.
Right.
But she really wanted to work withme and we got her mortgage done.
That's fine.
Right.
But but yeah, so going back tothat question about referrals, I I
don't even have like a databasethat.
So you didn't even have to makethat transition.
(21:26):
It wasn't like, okay.
So you truly recession proof, you
have a recession proof businessright now.
You're not relying on peopleputting new capital in to buy new
investment properties.
If they do, that's great.
And you walk them through that,but you can go get the business
with just optimizing people'scurrent portfolios.
or their basement suite or theirone rental.
You're not relying on realtors tosend you business because if the
market's down, they're down, whichmeans less referrals.
(21:48):
I love it.
You have full control of
everything right now on your termswith an ocean of clients out there
that you could take advantage of.
So let's shift gears to the
marketing.
Let's talk about, let's get a
little tactical here.
Where do you get your, I know it's
a very broad question, but let'sjust start with that.
Where do you get your current cashdamning clients from?
So I just started tracking whereI'm getting my clients from.
(22:11):
I wasn't very good at tracking itin the last 18, 20 months.
So I just started tracking it.
Right now, what I do is.
Just like what you taught me,webinars, right?
Great.
So you do a webinar.
And is that a live webinar or arecorded webinar?
So I have both, right?So I do live webinars.
How do you get people to the livewebinar?
(22:32):
do you get people to the livewebinar?
Just through email marketing.
through email marketing.
So email marketing, people sign upfor the webinar.
After they watch the webinar, isthe webinar, what, 30, 45 minutes,
something like that?Give or take.
Okay.
It's a live webinar.
You get them from your database.
that you've built up over your
(22:54):
career.
And then after they show up to the
webinar, is there ongoing post-marketing after that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So afterwards, they go into my
weekly drip campaign email.
So something that I've been
getting better at and I can stillimprove on is to constantly write
content for my email, right?It's not an easy muscle to learn
(23:14):
when you don't.
when you've never done it before,
right?But for me, I've been learning how
to write that content.
And I get that content from my
conversations with prospects thatI talk to.
I talk to.
With them.
And then so the goal is to havethem go to the webinar.
(23:34):
get nurtured in a drip campaign,talking about the webinar and cash
damming.
You're not switching gears and
going, hey, let's talk aboutreverse mortgages in this email.
It's all focused on cash damming.
It's all focused on helping
landlords save money.
Okay, that's a great hook.
Helping landlords save money.
(23:55):
And so to get people to the
webinar, the thing I, the hardestpart for us getting people to our
webinars.
people would sign up, it was
getting them to show up.
And so it was really the 48 hours
leading up to the webinar where wehad to like roll our sleeves up
and call and text and email andlike, hey, are you coming?
Are you coming?Are you coming?
Do you have anything in place upfront, like more organic roll your
(24:16):
sleeve up work or are you relyingon the software to just stay in
touch?So definitely the software to send
those reminder emails, you know,48 hours, 72 hours, 48 hours, 24
hours, you know.
Any text messages go out?
I could never figure it out.
Okay.
I would love to figure it out,right?
(24:36):
If you can show me, that'd begreat.
What software do you use for thewebinar?
For the webinar.
So I used to use Webinar Jam and
then the whatever webinar.
Yeah.
And then I switched to Zoom.
And then I, I think I just do it
(24:56):
on Zoom now.
Oh yeah.
So my webinars are just on Zoom,just as a regular meeting.
So it's not a, it's not theupgraded, you know, webinar
version of Zoom.
I just have a Zoom meeting.
Hey, come in.
People don't turn on their videos
anyways.
It's just me talking to like a
bunch of black screens.
So yeah, and then it gets recorded
(25:19):
from there.
And then after it gets recorded, I
will update my website with themost updated recording.
And so now it's on demand.
So do people, if they want to opt
in to watch the recording, are youcapturing email address for that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Gotcha.
And so then they end up in thedrip anyways.
Okay.
and back it up.
And for those listening, there wasa nuance there.
(25:40):
I want to make sure you understandshe's using Zoom and then there's
to use the webinar version ofZoom.
It's an upgrade and it's anywherefrom one to 150 a month.
She's sticking at just a regularmeeting Zoom link, which keeps the
cost low and it's working.
So if you're on the fence, because
I get that question all the time,are you on the fence of I need
(26:01):
this?Start with the meeting.
and work your way up if you thinkit's costing you revenue, but
start like with the bare bones ofwhat you need to get this done.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you have that.
So let me, let's go through, let's
say someone is your call to actionafter the webinar, or what is your
call to action after the webinar?Yeah, book a call with me.
(26:23):
So they get direct access to yourcalendar from the webinar?
Yep.
And if they watch the recorded
version, See, these are thosetactical things no one talks
about, which I love your sharing.
If they get the recorded version,
is there a link to your calendarin there as well?
So they can book a call.
(26:44):
So now they book a call.
How long is the call typically?What do you have it scheduled for?
Yeah, so the discovery call, asyou would call it, right?
The discovery call is typically 45minutes long.
Yeah, so it's 45 minutes long.
I have a conversation with this
individual to try to figure out.
What do they truly want?
(27:04):
And if I feel it's a good fit forthem to do rental cash jamming,
then I'll go through the numberswith them.
And so is there an intake formthey have to fill out to get some
standard?Are you qualified to even have a
conversation about cash jamming?At the beginning, there wasn't.
And my calendar was filling up.
And I'm just like, these are not
(27:26):
really good leads.
So I had to narrow it down on my
questionnaire.
when they fill in it.
So when I, when a client comes into chat with me in the discovery
call, I already know the basicinformation.
How much do we make?What are their goals?
What is their pain point?How much do they owe on their
mortgage?You know, what's the amortization?
What's their rental income?So I already have the basic
(27:47):
information.
And then from there, I'd be able
to assess, okay, yeah, this is agood, a good client for me.
Yeah.
Okay.
Before that, so let's say they'refilling the intake form and
they're not a fit.
Is there logic built in there
where it shuts off the option tobook a call or do they still book
a call, but you just say no earlyon?
It just says, sorry, noappointments available.
(28:08):
So if they answer a certain way,that means they're not the typical
fit.
It just goes, there's no, you
can't book a call.
that a call.
Sorry, no appointments available.
Love it.
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it's funny that you say
that because then there's somepeople are like, Sylvia, I want to
book an appointment with you, butI can't.
I'm like, why?What happened?
He goes, give me your calendar.
(28:28):
And I'm like, oh, sorry.
There's a reason.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I just had to protect my time,Ryan.
Right.
Like I only have so many
appointments in a week.
I take Wednesdays off.
I take Friday afternoons off.
I'm on Monday, Tuesday and
Thursday and it books up soquickly.
And I'm not saying this to boast.
I'm just saying that I have put
(28:51):
these boundaries in place so thatSylvia can serve these clients
full heartedly and not serve thembecause.
I have to serve them.
I want to serve them with my full
heart and my full energy and mymind and not be stressed out and
tired.
I'm like, oh my goodness, I've
been on calls since 7 a .m.
(29:12):
this morning at 7 p .m.
My brain is fried.
I can't talk to them, right?
So I only have 15 appointments,like five on Monday, five on
Tuesday, five on Thursday.
So that's 15.
And then I'll book in two onFriday mornings and then that's
it.
Right.
So I have to be very, very, veryselective about who I'm giving my
time to.
Very cool.
Very cool.
(29:32):
And, and you're, I hear this from
brokers all the time.
And I just, I laugh inside.
It's because you get the brokerswho don't have the business and
they complain about not having thebusiness.
And then you get the brokers, theyget business.
And I remember that I knew Ineeded a change in my career.
When I got to this point, I hadthe business.
(29:55):
but I complained about thebusiness.
We're on a commission -basedbusiness, but I was like, oh,
another three discovery calls.
These are like people who are
like, need my help, who are comingin, like thinking I'm going to
help.
And I'm sitting here complaining,
going, oh, I have so much on myplate.
I have so many pre -approvals.
So I don't know if that's like
people putting that out there totry to flex, but it's like, you
(30:17):
should be so grateful that youhave those opportunities.
And if you don't, You need to makea change.
And it always comes back to you'renot serving the right people.
You're not serving your avatar.
not serving your avatar.
You're not serving your avatarbecause you're like, not serving
your avatar because you're like,oh, I got eight files to submit
(30:41):
and I have three compliancepackages and I got these pre
-approvals.
But they're saying it in a
negative way.
And that's a big pet peeve of mine
in our industry.
There's other people that would
like kill their mother -in -law togo get the deals you have.
And here you're complaining aboutit, but it comes back to, like I
(31:02):
said, you're not serving theavatar.
So you're not happy about it andyou're just grinding away.
So very interesting.
After you do your 45 -minute call
or however long that ends upbeing, and do you run the numbers
on the call to give them likedangle a carrot and give them a
taste of what's coming?How do you present the scenario to
(31:23):
them and when do you do it?So if I feel that they're a right
fit.
um, for rental cash, I mean, I
know I feel that it's a right,like they are coachable.
It's very key that a client iscoachable because the strategy is
very different, right?Our everyday, you know, Oh, put
money outside for TFSA.
Right.
Um, then I'll, I'll kind of say, Iwas like, okay, yeah, based on the
(31:46):
numbers that you've given me on avery high level.
And when we apply rental cash, Imean, you can pay off your
mortgage, you know, nine yearsearlier than your 30 year
amortization.
So you'll be mortgage free in 21
years.
What do you think about that?
Right.
And then most people are like,
well, yeah, I want to pay off mymortgage in 21 years.
Right.
And and so that that's kind of
where, you know, we go into likethe number parts, number part of
(32:08):
it.
At the beginning, I used to show
them all the numbers, but now Ifeel like I've gotten to this
point where I can say, yeah, thisis what I can make happen.
And I don't have to go intonumbers as deeply as I used to.
And I think it comes with justconfidence of doing it over and
over and over and over and over.
They're sensing that, over.
They're sensing that, like you'recoming across very like not
(32:29):
sitting on the fence and feelinglike you always have to justify.
what you're saying, you're goingvery matter of fact, this is it.
And people are obviously feelingthat, right?
So very cool.
Okay.
Okay.
Let me see any other question
here.
Okay.
I have two more topics and thenwe'll shut this down because I
don't want these to be too long.
I feel like there is a lot of
(32:50):
value in here for you listening.
I really hope you have a couple of
takeaways here, whatever piece,even if it's just figure out who
you want to serve.
It will prolong your career and
just make you a happier person.
Well, okay.
Social media.
What sort of social media do you
do?It's just Facebook.
I was doing Instagram and then.
How consistent are you?
Is it videos?Is it static posts?
(33:11):
Is it?Yeah.
So I, Facebook is my main.
bread and butter that that's where
i have all of my stuff um and theni'll also post on linkedin and
instagram um so that and then inregards to what type of post so
different types of posts just um iwill do like shift belief posts or
i'll do like a hand raiser postthat and then in regards to what
(33:34):
type of post so different types ofposts just um i will do like shift
belief posts or i'll do like ahand raiser post I'll do regular
Facebook lives.
Oh, let's stop there.
Because the other stuff's theother stuff.
Facebook live, that's interesting.
So is there a formula to that?
Do you just say, hey, I'm going togo live today and you go live and
do people actually come on?Can you maybe speak to that?
(33:57):
Yeah.
I don't know if people actually go
on.
I think I've seen people go on
before, but.
My computer set up in a way that I
don't know if I really actuallyeven see it.
So I should I should see if Icould do it differently.
So I think that was a new musclethat I was learning.
Ryan was to do social mediaregularly.
(34:19):
Encouraging that you don't havethat.
It's like that's for you.
And we'll talk about what's next
for you.
But I'm sitting here going like
you've you built up a lot ofstreet cred with your database.
And that's fed this monster foryou.
And that could continue to dothat, as you know.
But I'm very curious, like if youput some energy into social, I
(34:41):
already know it would work outvery well for you.
So let's do that.
Let's talk about and then we'll
wrap this up.
What's next?
Like what's next for Sylvia Ho?Is this like.
I'm just going to carry on mycurrent path and see what happens.
I feel like doubling my business,but not my expenses.
I still want to take vacations.
I'm just dialing in my skill set.
I don't know where it's going togo.
Like what's next for you?So definitely taking my vacations.
(35:07):
We're constantly on vacation modein the sense where like, okay,
where are we going next?What else is in store for Sylvia
for 2025?I think it's just.
getting better at doing what I'malready doing because it's
working, right?It's working for me.
And it's just, I can refine thingsand make it even more efficient
(35:32):
and better.
Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
Like I, do you see a world, I see
a world, do you see a world whereyou're doing 40 to 50 million with
the same input of time?I would love to do that.
I am sure that it is possible.
Do I see that happening?
I don't know.
Do you see that happening?
Well, you reverse engineer it andyou just go, okay, well, there's
something we need to fix if wewant to get there or maybe tweak.
(35:57):
So it's either I get higherquality.
I either get more book calls in,which would be from social media,
or I get higher quality.
I do less calls, but close the
same amount.
So then I qualify those calls even
more before they make their waythrough to a discovery call.
And I do that.
Or then I leverage my recorded
(36:19):
webinar.
And I go, how can I leverage that
with potentially paid ads goinginto that to then, and maybe it's
a lead magnet.
I put paid ads to a lead magnet
for the five -step guide on howlandlords can turn a cashflow
negative property into a positive.
You get an email, you nurture, but
you push the recorded one becausenow you're getting leverage with
less time.
Yeah, it's probably a very
(36:39):
combination of a bunch of things.
But yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think I need to come backto you from work with you.
Tell me about Team Wiley.
So very cool.
But you're not like you're notshifting gears.
You're not slowing down.
You're just going to keep you're
(36:59):
going to see where this journeytakes you.
Yeah, I think I think I'm just I'mgoing to continue along this path.
I'm going to get even better atwhat I do.
I am going to continually protectmy time.
I don't work evenings.
I don't work weekends.
I don't need to work those times,right?
I think my biggest thing that myfocus is protecting my time.
Yeah.
(37:20):
I have to protect my time.
I have to protect the house.
And you taught me that, by the
way, you know that I have toprotect that.
And I also have to protect mymental space as well.
Right.
There's enough business out there
for everybody.
People can make lots of money.
(37:40):
Right.
But I think you're like for me for
this year, I feel that it's justdoubling down on what I love to
do.
staying focused not looking at
shiny objects everywhere andgetting better at the process
maybe my discovery calls are not45 minutes anymore maybe they're
only half an hour um so that maybei can get a few more extra in
(38:01):
there you know it's just aboutgetting better what i'm already
doing um and then the volumes ithink will just happen yeah they
will and word will spread and thesnowball effect will take over and
your referrals will come in fromyour they will and word will
spread and the snowball effectwill take over and your referrals
will come in from your clients andso my biggest takeaway from this
(38:23):
man i wish like i hope this issome of you listening's biggest
takeaway uh if it wasn't it shouldbe now is you have such extreme
clarity on what you're doing howyou're doing it how like you're
not even like yeah i'll do thisyou're like nope i'm losing first
time home buyers nope I'm losingpurchases with COFs.
(38:43):
Nope, you can't talk to me becauseof this.
Nope, you didn't answer thequestion right.
You're not on my calendar.
Nope, you're not.
And you're just like, and you'reso dialed in with protecting your
time and only talking to the rightpeople.
That is really hard to figure out.
And the fact you've got there, I
can tell it's taken years to getto that.
(39:06):
But man, oh man, what a differenceI see in you.
It's night and day.
And you and I have talked off and
on.
I don't think I've gotten this
much clarity on exactly yourmindset around it all.
And now I have it and I'm like,whoa, good for you.
You've got like a superpower now.
(39:26):
Before you had an idea of a
superpower.
Now you've got an actual
superpower.
So good for you.
Cool.
Congrats.
Yeah, very cool.
Very cool.
Okay, we're going to wrap this up.
Is there anything you wanted to
add in there before we go?I think it just all comes down to
(39:48):
is what do you really want?As like for the listeners out
there, what do you really want?And creating that life that you
want and then your business worksaround that and not have your
business and then have your lifework around that.
It's like.
What is it that Sylvia wants?
Sylvia wants a vacation.
Sylvia doesn't want to work
(40:08):
evenings.
She doesn't want to work weekends.
Okay, well, that means no COS.
That means no realtors, right?
So let's get away from that.
Okay, well, just focusing on what
you really want.
And I guess as we did this podcast
and as you walked me through myjourney, I didn't know that this
(40:30):
is where I would be five yearsago, right?
I think like now that I'm here,I'm like, I, I like this.
I like, I like this.
Right.
So figure out what you want and wemay not get it right the first
time.
Right.
But it's about figuring out, like,just figure out what you want and
then just focusing on that onething and, and stay away from the
(40:51):
shiny object syndrome because it'shard.
You're living proof.
This works like that.
Other people talk a game, they'regoing to do it, but they don't do
it.
And they get jumbled up into all
the same bullshit.
You're living proof of, and you
just, you clearly outlined whatyou said no to and how you said
it.
You made some sacrifices.
You took three steps back to take10 forward.
(41:12):
So freaking awesome.
Sylvia, thank you so much for
joining us.
I got stuff out of that.
So I know for sure peoplelistening got stuff out of it.
Yeah, I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
you.
Thanks, Ryan.
Thanks for helping me on this
journey.
Thanks for helping me.
Thanks for believing in me to helpyou, help you, you know what I'm
saying.
Anyways, that's it, kids.
(41:32):
Thank you for listening to TheMortgage Game.
We'll be back next week.
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right.
Welcome to episode of the MortgageGame podcast.
West Coast Wiley here.
And I have a special guest today
coming to you live.
We've got Sylvia Ho.
Hello, Sylvia.
(00:48):
Hello, hello.
Hello.
So Sylvia, we figured we'd have
her on because Sylvia is the cashdam, cash damming or cash dam
queen.
What are we going with?
Cash damming queen.
How about that?
Cash damming queen.
Okay.
So we wanted to have you onbecause I'm going to start with
where your business is at today.
(01:08):
We're just going to get into it
with where your business is attoday.
And then we'll frame it with whereyou were before.
And then we'll have a chat.
I really want anyone listening
here more than ever.
brokers are getting absolutely
crushed by the banks with thetraditional type of brokering, the
brokering of 10 years ago.
And so Sylvia recognized this many
years ago.
She came up with a different
(01:30):
business model and it has sinceevolved.
And so that's what we want to talkto you about today.
And I want some of you just havesome takeaways, some takeaways of,
hey, if she can do it, I can doit.
Maybe I should look a littledifferently and plan a little
differently.
So let's get into it, Sylvia.
You focus on cash jamming,correct?
Yep.
Yep.
That's all I focus on.
on. And so 2024, can you walk me
(01:51):
through the last calendar yearwith just the focus of cash
jamming, what you were able toaccomplish?
Yeah.
So 2024 last year, my goodness,
it's like, feels like a long timeago.
Last year, all I did was rentalcash damming.
I prospected for clients.
I charged them a fee.
I helped them get their propersetup on their mortgage.
And I helped them through settingup rental cash damming.
(02:14):
And that's it.
That was my simple model.
And I loved it because there wasno stress.
There was no stress involved.
It was, hey.
You want to do rental cash dummy?You want to learn about it?
That's great.
Okay, here's my fee.
Pay it.
Okay, let's onboard you.
Let's have a one -hourconversation.
(02:34):
Let's figure out your numbers.
Let's do some analysis.
Let's do a cash flow analysis, amortgage analysis.
Do you have the right product?Okay, if you don't have the right
product, then I'll put on mymortgage agent hat.
And then from there, I get themthe right product.
It closes 30 days later.
And then now we onboard for rental
cash dummy.
Very simple.
That's it.
That's it.
It's just me.
I have one teammate, but they
handle the mortgage side ofthings.
(02:56):
I take care of the rental cashdebbie side of things.
And so you niched out completelyand you made a conscious decision
to do that.
What sort of volumes did you do
last year?Yeah, so my volumes in 2024
dropped significantly from amortgage perspective from 2023 to
2024, because all I did was justfocus on rental cash damming.
So from a mortgage volumeperspective, I would say about 26,
(03:18):
27 mil.
Okay.
And that commission and consultingfees combined.
And here's the drum roll, please.
How many vacations did you take in
2024?My family and I, we took eight
vacations.
It was incredible.
Every month and a half we wereoff.
And when I say off, my friends, Ihonestly mean off.
(03:39):
Like I'm not answering phonecalls.
I'm not answering emails.
I'm not talking to realtors.
I'm not talking to clients.
I'm not talking to lenders.
I'm not talking to underwriters.
I'm not talking to BDMs.
It's just me and my family.
Every month and a half we were
(04:02):
taking off last year.
And I'm like.
I love this.
I really, really, really do.
Well, yeah, you're, you know,quarter million bucks, give or
take.
And eight weeks of vacation,
working with clients where you'renot competing against other people
or banks or so question for you.
I have a bunch of questions here.
But first, what did you do?So someone comes in your world.
from prior clients or whatnot, andthey're not cash damming.
(04:25):
So what did you do with thoseclients?
Well, at first I, so if a clientcame to me and they're like, hey,
Sylvia, I'm just looking formortgage help.
I would analyze to see if there'san opportunity to talk to them
about rental cash damming.
And if it was no opportunity where
it was just a straight mortgage, Iwould say, I'm sorry, I'm not in
(04:51):
that business anymore.
how would business go and as i
talked to other colleagues in thisbusiness they're like sylvia
you're crazy like why would youlet that business go and i go i
don't know like i i just want tostay in my lane like ryan you've
taught me all about you knowstaying in your lane and there's
(05:11):
always lots of shiny objects likethings to focus on things to do
right but it's a muscle just tostay in your lane and so i had to
say no to that business becauseFor me to like really understand
this new line of work or this newfocus, I had to just focus on
that.
So I let the business go.
People said I was crazy and Iprobably left a lot of money on
(05:34):
the table.
But I don't know.
I don't know if you can put aprice tag to peace of mind that
you're like, hey, this is what I'mdoing.
I'm just staying in this lane andI'm charting along this one lane.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
Does that answer the question?
Yeah.
No. Hey, it's one of those things.
If you start taking that on, it'slike, where's the line?
(05:56):
Where's the line being drawn?Because at some point you're going
to get pulled back in and you'rereally doing it not because you
like it.
You're doing it for a paycheck.
When in all reality, you couldjust figure out how to go find
more of your rental cash damningtype clients who probably
appreciate you a hell of a lotmore.
Interesting.
And so take me back before, or
actually I have a question, asmall question here first.
(06:18):
How many, how long did it take youto become an expert, enough of an
expert at cash damming before yourealized you could actually run a
whole business solely off cashdamming?
Like when was that aha moment?Was it 10 hours, 50 hours, three
months?Like, can you even think about
that?is a strategy that is very simple
on the surface.
But we all know that, you know,
something simple is notnecessarily that way.
(06:39):
Like there's a lot more layersinvolved.
Even today, like it's been, Istarted in 2023.
So it's been about two years thatI've just been solely focusing on
rental cash damming.
And even to this day, I'm still
learning new things.
Right.
So it's just like in the mortgagebusiness, you're constantly
learning new things all the time,even though even if like I've been
(07:07):
in the mortgage business for 24years, I'm still learning things.
Right.
So I don't know if you can truly
say, I understand it all.
I know I'm really good at it.
I am really good at it.
I can run different scenarios.
Like I've, I've ran over 400different scenarios in just one
(07:28):
year.
Like it's pretty, like I was
looking at my numbers and I waslike, wow, really Sylvia, did you
really do that?But yeah, I did.
And, and it's a learning process.
Okay.
So you can't say, oh, in twoweeks, oh, I learned how to do
this.
I can do a cartwheel now, or I
could just ride a bike and now I'mfine.
(07:49):
Right.
there's there's more so does that
answer that question yeah yeahyeah no it gives me enough i i
think the thing i admire about youand your situation is you're 24
years in the game um you reinventyourself and then you reinvent
yourself again and we'll get tothat first reinvention but then
you reinvent yourself into theniche of cash damming and then you
(08:10):
realize like yeah yeah yeah no itgives me enough i i think the
thing i admire about you and yoursituation is you're 24 years in
the game um you reinvent yourselfand then you reinvent yourself
again and we'll get to that firstreinvention but then you reinvent
yourself into the niche of cashdamming and then you realize like
I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm going to figure it out.
And now I know what I'm doing, butI'm still going to figure it out.
(08:33):
And you're still on the learningcurve and you're not like, you're
not telling yourself, I got it.
I'm good.
You're still, I see you in thecalls.
You're still showing up the calls.
You're still asking questions.
You're still helping other peopleanswer questions and you're two
years into it.
So that's.
I admire that because you couldeasily just go can't teach an old
dog new tricks.
Not that you are an old dog, but
it's one of those things rightnow.
I got it figured out.
We're good.
My clients are good.
You're like, hell no. And you're
actually like paying money tolearn how to do the thing and
you're not slowing down.
So I think that's so cool.
A lot of people should look atthat and be like, heck, if she's
doing that two decades in.
Like, what am I doing?
What's my excuse for not wantingto up my game?
(08:55):
So that's my takeaway on that.
Let's go back to before 2024 and
2023, back when you and I firstmet in coaching and whatnot.
So you were a mortgage broker andthen you decided to, I said,
reinvent yourself.
Can you walk me through that first
reinvention?Yeah.
So I think the whole reinventionthing came when you were coaching
me.
And this is more than two years
(09:15):
ago, Ryan.
This was like four years ago.
And you taught me OPA, right?Yeah, one property away for anyone
listening.
Anyway, Anyway, for those who
don't know.
So Ryan teaches how to, why don't
you tell what OPA is?And then I'll continue.
Yeah, Yeah, I showed people how tobuy their first investment
property.
The tagline was, you're one
(09:36):
property away from changing yourlife.
And that's what I did.
I showed people I'll do a standard
refi.
People come to me with a renewal.
And before you knew it, they'dcommit to, they don't want to do
anything outside of pay theirmortgage down.
So then I'd go, hey, why don't youlook at this?
(09:56):
Refi, buy a rental, sell it in 10to 15 years, pay your exit costs,
capital gains, pay off yourprincipal residence.
If you do that or not, it doesn'tmatter.
But that's the concept.
Let's leverage, put yourself the
money to work for you, that debtequity.
And so I built the whole thingaround that.
So that's when I started to teachthat to other brokers.
(10:19):
And that's where you took that andran with it, with your own
program.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I, I ran with that, uh, loved
it.
And it really gave me a different
perspective on mortgage brokeringthat we don't have to just do
like, Oh, what you want your firsttime?
Well, sure.
I'll do it.
Oh, wait, you're doing a switch.
Sure.
I'll do it.
Like, Oh, what be lending?
Sure.
I'll do it.
Oh, private.
I'll absolutely do it.
And like, I used to be thatbroker, um, not that broker
(10:41):
anymore.
And because I just didn't feel joy
in that.
Right.
Maybe when I was earlier on in myyears.
OK, fine.
But now, as I progress through my
career as a mortgage agent, I Ireally loved your concept, Ryan,
the concept that you taught meabout, you know, specializing with
OPA.
And that's where I'm like, OK, I'm
not doing anything else exceptOPA.
That's it.
That's all I did.
So so that was the first kind oftransformation in my business
(11:04):
where I'm like.
unless you're buying a rental
property, I'm not doing it.
Right.
And that was, that was hard,right.
To say no to like first time homebuyers and other business, but
man, that was tough business.
And I'm like, okay, I'll let other
people do that business.
I got to focus on what I love, my
joy, which was.
teaching people how to invest in
real estate and buy rentalproperties.
(11:25):
And it comes down to my ownpersonal story.
Like I'm a landlord myself.
My mom taught me how to get into
landlord business, right?Like when I bought my first
property, I just graduated fromuniversity and my mom was a real
estate agent.
She took me to go see this house
and she's like, Sylvia, this isperfect.
Let's buy it.
And I'm like, who's buying it?
(11:47):
And I'm like, you are.
I'm like, well, I can't buy this
place, mom.
Like I had $50 ,000 of student
loans.
And then she's like, don't worry
about it.
We'll figure it out.
We'll find a mortgage agent andget it done, right?
I got my job.
I borrowed the 5 % down payment.
I did a 40 -year AM, right?High ratio, right?
Borrowed down payment.
I just needed to come up with a
(12:10):
closing cost.
And that was it.
And that's how I got into realestate.
And then from there, I had thatone property.
I've grown in the number ofproperties that I own as a
landlord.
I own seven properties.
I'm proud to say that because thereason I want to own properties is
for my kids and my grandkids.
We live here in the Toronto area.
It's way too expensive for them tobuy by the time my 13 -year -old
(12:30):
becomes 30 and is ready to buy.
It's going to be New York City.
That's the norm, right?So when you opened up my eyes to
Opa, I was like, I want to helpother families, just like how my
mom helped me.
Very cool.
Very cool.
That was phase one of the change
of subspecializing.
Yeah, there's more to it, but I'll
let you ask your questions.
The cool part is you decide, and
(12:51):
this is what a mistake mostmortgage brokers are making,
right?99 % of mortgage brokers are
making is they haven't identifiedwho they want to serve.
And so because they haven'tidentified who they want to serve,
they're trying to be everything toeveryone.
And then it's really hard to bepassionate, get out of bed in the
(13:13):
morning and keep that going, thatcandle lit for so many hours, so
many days, so many years talkingabout stuff you don't really care
about.
And at some point, I think you
piece that together and it wasjust you and me being introduced
and you hearing my story and whatI was doing, you were like, ooh.
I want that.
That's like, now that gets me out
of bed.
So the fact that you piece that
(13:35):
together and then took it to thenext level of the cash damming, so
cool because you've identified whoyou want to serve and you're
saying no to everybody else.
And that's a gutsy thing to do.
I'm not sure most people can dothat, but you're living proof.
It works.
And in your first year of fully
(13:56):
committed to it, with 26, 27million in comp and eight
vacations.
Heck yeah.
Is that working?Heck yeah.
And I can already tell fromtalking to you now versus knowing
the Sylvia before, like yourstress levels back then, what sort
of team did you have?What sort of team structure did
you have?So I had two full -time
underwriters and I had it in mid-person.
(14:17):
So it was us for a team of four.
We did really well.
We did really, really well withthe whole OPA program.
It was a good oiled machine.
But I got burnt out.
Right.
Like, what was I doing?
Like 4850 in volume.
With three staff that you were on.
Were they on payroll?They were on payroll.
Yeah, that's right there.
That's like every month, right?
Or every two weeks, just ding,ding, ding.
(14:38):
I just felt like I was working tomake sure I could pay their
payroll.
And it was stressful.
Yeah, the commissions came in, theclients came in, the product
worked.
It was great.
But I was stressed.
I was like, I can't keep doing
this.
This is not going to work.
(14:59):
And then that is when ratesstarted going up.
And when rates go up, we all knowpeople are not buying investment
properties anymore.
They can barely pay their owner
occupied home.
Right.
So 2022, give or take right now.
Yeah.
The third, fourth quarter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was it was pretty bad.
And to be honest, I was pretty
(15:20):
depressed.
I was just like, I I don't know
how I'm going to do this.
Right.
And that's where I was like, OK.
I need to do that adjustment.
And I think you call it, Irecession -proofed my business,
right?No.
Right.
Where I made that adjustment, I
(15:42):
let my team go.
They're gone.
I have one admin person right nowwho does like just my mortgage
stuff, but she's on per piecemeal,not a salaried individual.
And that was 2022, 2023.
So the first six months in 2023,
that's where I'm like, okay.
I'm going to do cash damming.
I need to figure this out.
Strategy Hub, Jason taught me and
(16:02):
I'm like, okay, I'm going to learnthis really, really well.
And I started getting my foot wetand yeah, it was, it was that,
that was the transition.
So yeah.
So it's been June of this year.
It'll be two years.
And I'm loving what I'm doing,Ryan.
Like I'm, I track what I do now.
(16:23):
And I'm working 80 hours a month.
That's 20 hours a week.
So you're working 20 hours a week,
taking the vacations, working withclients you want to work with, not
competing on rate and gettingcrushed by the banks.
I love that you're, it's easiersaid than done.
We always hear like the onlyconstant is change and your
(16:44):
business needs to evolve.
You are living proof of you
evolving your business real timewith what's going on out there.
A lot of other brokers are sittingthere using the same old tricks.
I'm going to win this on customerservice.
And I answer the phone when peoplecall.
And I'm like, I'm Ned Flanders.
People just like me and work with
(17:05):
me.
And it's like, oh, God, that is
you're going to get crushed.
Your lunch is going to get eaten
if that is your model.
And we're just at the beginning of
it.
So I love that you evolved it and
you took.
three steps back and you went into
learn mode.
(17:25):
You went into like reinventing
yourself is what you did.
That's pretty cool.
Like if you think about it, you'reletting staff go, you're letting
the volumes go.
You're clearly identifying your
avatar and who you want to serve.
And now you're coming, this is you
coming out of the other side of itand you're just getting started.
(17:46):
Your stress levels are down.
I'm guessing you're probably more
present for your husband and yourkids.
Yeah, yeah.
Right?
And they probably, just eightvacations.
You're doing more of what Sylviawants to do, working with the
people.
Like, it's like, oh my goodness.
So, so cool.
I have mad respect.
I have mad respect for what you'redoing.
So do you have anything else youwant to add in there before I
(18:09):
switch gears a little?I think the thing that I learned
from you, Ryan, through all theyears that you've coached me is
the fact that It is thespecialization, you know, and
doing the same thing over and overagain and simplifying it.
Right.
I think as mortgage agents, we
make things too.
We make things complicated.
Do you agree?We make things complicated.
(18:30):
Right.
When you're like, it's really like
I love how you when you coach me,like you're always like, well,
it's just this.
Just do this.
just do this that's it that's itlet's just do this and i'm like
really you're like yeah just justdo this and then i'm like oh okay
ryan's right it worked okay got itokay just do this right and just
do more of that yeah exactlyexactly do do more of the same
(18:55):
thing right but make sure thething that you're doing is the
thing that you love to do yeahyeah yeah and then go find more
people that you want to do thething with um so do more of that
exactly exactly do do more of thesame thing right but make sure the
(19:15):
thing that you're doing is thething that you love to do and then
go find more people that you wantto do the thing with um so Yeah.
So let me ask you this.
You've got, you had referral
partners before.
They were referring you business.
Now that you've shifted gears tothis sort of avatar with rental
(19:38):
cash jamming, are those referralpartners, are they still, like, is
it resonating with them?Do you still have relationships
with them?Are they still sending some
business in?Like, where do you stand with your
past referral partners?Yeah, that's very interesting that
you asked me.
My 24 years of doing mortgages,
I... was only past referrals frompast clients.
(19:58):
I did not have a database of realestate agents that I worked with
where I was smoothing, buildingrelationships, having
conversations.
I don't even know one real estate
agent that refers to me business.
I think my, yeah, so I didn't have
that.
My business is solely built on
past clients referring people tome.
I remember this one call.
It was so funny.
I got onto the call with this oneclient and I'm like, yeah, I can
(20:22):
definitely help you, but hold onfor a second.
Like, how did you get my contactdetails?
And she's like, oh, it was areferral from a friend.
And I was like, oh, could I havetheir name?
Cause I like to thank them.
And cause I only work on referrals
only.
And all I can hear was her.
typing away in the background,trying to find a name that was
related to me.
And I don't even know if she was
making it up or not.
And I'm not saying this to boast.
I'm just saying that as mortgageagents, we want to spend our time
wisely.
We want to spend our time not with
(20:43):
the rate shoppers, but with theindividuals that truly value the
experience and the knowledge andthe advice that you give.
Right.
So if this lady was a rate
shopper, then I would have been,you know what, I'm not the right
person for you.
I would recommend, you know, going
(21:04):
to your branch.
Right.
But she really wanted to work withme and we got her mortgage done.
That's fine.
Right.
But but yeah, so going back tothat question about referrals, I I
don't even have like a databasethat.
So you didn't even have to makethat transition.
(21:26):
It wasn't like, okay.
So you truly recession proof, you
have a recession proof businessright now.
You're not relying on peopleputting new capital in to buy new
investment properties.
If they do, that's great.
And you walk them through that,but you can go get the business
with just optimizing people'scurrent portfolios.
or their basement suite or theirone rental.
You're not relying on realtors tosend you business because if the
market's down, they're down, whichmeans less referrals.
(21:48):
I love it.
You have full control of
everything right now on your termswith an ocean of clients out there
that you could take advantage of.
So let's shift gears to the
marketing.
Let's talk about, let's get a
little tactical here.
Where do you get your, I know it's
a very broad question, but let'sjust start with that.
Where do you get your current cashdamning clients from?
So I just started tracking whereI'm getting my clients from.
(22:11):
I wasn't very good at tracking itin the last 18, 20 months.
So I just started tracking it.
Right now, what I do is.
Just like what you taught me,webinars, right?
Great.
So you do a webinar.
And is that a live webinar or arecorded webinar?
So I have both, right?So I do live webinars.
How do you get people to the livewebinar?
(22:32):
do you get people to the livewebinar?
Just through email marketing.
through email marketing.
So email marketing, people sign upfor the webinar.
After they watch the webinar, isthe webinar, what, 30, 45 minutes,
something like that?Give or take.
Okay.
It's a live webinar.
You get them from your database.
that you've built up over your
(22:54):
career.
And then after they show up to the
webinar, is there ongoing post-marketing after that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So afterwards, they go into my
weekly drip campaign email.
So something that I've been
getting better at and I can stillimprove on is to constantly write
content for my email, right?It's not an easy muscle to learn
(23:14):
when you don't.
when you've never done it before,
right?But for me, I've been learning how
to write that content.
And I get that content from my
conversations with prospects thatI talk to.
I talk to.
With them.
And then so the goal is to havethem go to the webinar.
(23:34):
get nurtured in a drip campaign,talking about the webinar and cash
damming.
You're not switching gears and
going, hey, let's talk aboutreverse mortgages in this email.
It's all focused on cash damming.
It's all focused on helping
landlords save money.
Okay, that's a great hook.
Helping landlords save money.
(23:55):
And so to get people to the
webinar, the thing I, the hardestpart for us getting people to our
webinars.
people would sign up, it was
getting them to show up.
And so it was really the 48 hours
leading up to the webinar where wehad to like roll our sleeves up
and call and text and email andlike, hey, are you coming?
Are you coming?Are you coming?
Do you have anything in place upfront, like more organic roll your
(24:16):
sleeve up work or are you relyingon the software to just stay in
touch?So definitely the software to send
those reminder emails, you know,48 hours, 72 hours, 48 hours, 24
hours, you know.
Any text messages go out?
I could never figure it out.
Okay.
I would love to figure it out,right?
(24:36):
If you can show me, that'd begreat.
What software do you use for thewebinar?
For the webinar.
So I used to use Webinar Jam and
then the whatever webinar.
Yeah.
And then I switched to Zoom.
And then I, I think I just do it
(24:56):
on Zoom now.
Oh yeah.
So my webinars are just on Zoom,just as a regular meeting.
So it's not a, it's not theupgraded, you know, webinar
version of Zoom.
I just have a Zoom meeting.
Hey, come in.
People don't turn on their videos
anyways.
It's just me talking to like a
bunch of black screens.
So yeah, and then it gets recorded
(25:19):
from there.
And then after it gets recorded, I
will update my website with themost updated recording.
And so now it's on demand.
So do people, if they want to opt
in to watch the recording, are youcapturing email address for that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Gotcha.
And so then they end up in thedrip anyways.
Okay.
and back it up.
And for those listening, there wasa nuance there.
(25:40):
I want to make sure you understandshe's using Zoom and then there's
to use the webinar version ofZoom.
It's an upgrade and it's anywherefrom one to 150 a month.
She's sticking at just a regularmeeting Zoom link, which keeps the
cost low and it's working.
So if you're on the fence, because
I get that question all the time,are you on the fence of I need
(26:01):
this?Start with the meeting.
and work your way up if you thinkit's costing you revenue, but
start like with the bare bones ofwhat you need to get this done.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you have that.
So let me, let's go through, let's
say someone is your call to actionafter the webinar, or what is your
call to action after the webinar?Yeah, book a call with me.
(26:23):
So they get direct access to yourcalendar from the webinar?
Yep.
And if they watch the recorded
version, See, these are thosetactical things no one talks
about, which I love your sharing.
If they get the recorded version,
is there a link to your calendarin there as well?
So they can book a call.
(26:44):
So now they book a call.
How long is the call typically?What do you have it scheduled for?
Yeah, so the discovery call, asyou would call it, right?
The discovery call is typically 45minutes long.
Yeah, so it's 45 minutes long.
I have a conversation with this
individual to try to figure out.
What do they truly want?
(27:04):
And if I feel it's a good fit forthem to do rental cash jamming,
then I'll go through the numberswith them.
And so is there an intake formthey have to fill out to get some
standard?Are you qualified to even have a
conversation about cash jamming?At the beginning, there wasn't.
And my calendar was filling up.
And I'm just like, these are not
(27:26):
really good leads.
So I had to narrow it down on my
questionnaire.
when they fill in it.
So when I, when a client comes into chat with me in the discovery
call, I already know the basicinformation.
How much do we make?What are their goals?
What is their pain point?How much do they owe on their
mortgage?You know, what's the amortization?
What's their rental income?So I already have the basic
(27:47):
information.
And then from there, I'd be able
to assess, okay, yeah, this is agood, a good client for me.
Yeah.
Okay.
Before that, so let's say they'refilling the intake form and
they're not a fit.
Is there logic built in there
where it shuts off the option tobook a call or do they still book
a call, but you just say no earlyon?
It just says, sorry, noappointments available.
(28:08):
So if they answer a certain way,that means they're not the typical
fit.
It just goes, there's no, you
can't book a call.
that a call.
Sorry, no appointments available.
Love it.
Love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it's funny that you say
that because then there's somepeople are like, Sylvia, I want to
book an appointment with you, butI can't.
I'm like, why?What happened?
He goes, give me your calendar.
(28:28):
And I'm like, oh, sorry.
There's a reason.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I just had to protect my time,Ryan.
Right.
Like I only have so many
appointments in a week.
I take Wednesdays off.
I take Friday afternoons off.
I'm on Monday, Tuesday and
Thursday and it books up soquickly.
And I'm not saying this to boast.
I'm just saying that I have put
(28:51):
these boundaries in place so thatSylvia can serve these clients
full heartedly and not serve thembecause.
I have to serve them.
I want to serve them with my full
heart and my full energy and mymind and not be stressed out and
tired.
I'm like, oh my goodness, I've
been on calls since 7 a .m.
(29:12):
this morning at 7 p .m.
My brain is fried.
I can't talk to them, right?
So I only have 15 appointments,like five on Monday, five on
Tuesday, five on Thursday.
So that's 15.
And then I'll book in two onFriday mornings and then that's
it.
Right.
So I have to be very, very, veryselective about who I'm giving my
time to.
Very cool.
Very cool.
(29:32):
And, and you're, I hear this from
brokers all the time.
And I just, I laugh inside.
It's because you get the brokerswho don't have the business and
they complain about not having thebusiness.
And then you get the brokers, theyget business.
And I remember that I knew Ineeded a change in my career.
When I got to this point, I hadthe business.
(29:55):
but I complained about thebusiness.
We're on a commission -basedbusiness, but I was like, oh,
another three discovery calls.
These are like people who are
like, need my help, who are comingin, like thinking I'm going to
help.
And I'm sitting here complaining,
going, oh, I have so much on myplate.
I have so many pre -approvals.
So I don't know if that's like
people putting that out there totry to flex, but it's like, you
(30:17):
should be so grateful that youhave those opportunities.
And if you don't, You need to makea change.
And it always comes back to you'renot serving the right people.
You're not serving your avatar.
not serving your avatar.
You're not serving your avatarbecause you're like, not serving
your avatar because you're like,oh, I got eight files to submit
(30:41):
and I have three compliancepackages and I got these pre
-approvals.
But they're saying it in a
negative way.
And that's a big pet peeve of mine
in our industry.
There's other people that would
like kill their mother -in -law togo get the deals you have.
And here you're complaining aboutit, but it comes back to, like I
(31:02):
said, you're not serving theavatar.
So you're not happy about it andyou're just grinding away.
So very interesting.
After you do your 45 -minute call
or however long that ends upbeing, and do you run the numbers
on the call to give them likedangle a carrot and give them a
taste of what's coming?How do you present the scenario to
(31:23):
them and when do you do it?So if I feel that they're a right
fit.
um, for rental cash, I mean, I
know I feel that it's a right,like they are coachable.
It's very key that a client iscoachable because the strategy is
very different, right?Our everyday, you know, Oh, put
money outside for TFSA.
Right.
Um, then I'll, I'll kind of say, Iwas like, okay, yeah, based on the
(31:46):
numbers that you've given me on avery high level.
And when we apply rental cash, Imean, you can pay off your
mortgage, you know, nine yearsearlier than your 30 year
amortization.
So you'll be mortgage free in 21
years.
What do you think about that?
Right.
And then most people are like,
well, yeah, I want to pay off mymortgage in 21 years.
Right.
And and so that that's kind of
where, you know, we go into likethe number parts, number part of
(32:08):
it.
At the beginning, I used to show
them all the numbers, but now Ifeel like I've gotten to this
point where I can say, yeah, thisis what I can make happen.
And I don't have to go intonumbers as deeply as I used to.
And I think it comes with justconfidence of doing it over and
over and over and over and over.
They're sensing that, over.
They're sensing that, like you'recoming across very like not
(32:29):
sitting on the fence and feelinglike you always have to justify.
what you're saying, you're goingvery matter of fact, this is it.
And people are obviously feelingthat, right?
So very cool.
Okay.
Okay.
Let me see any other question
here.
Okay.
I have two more topics and thenwe'll shut this down because I
don't want these to be too long.
I feel like there is a lot of
(32:50):
value in here for you listening.
I really hope you have a couple of
takeaways here, whatever piece,even if it's just figure out who
you want to serve.
It will prolong your career and
just make you a happier person.
Well, okay.
Social media.
What sort of social media do you
do?It's just Facebook.
I was doing Instagram and then.
How consistent are you?
Is it videos?Is it static posts?
(33:11):
Is it?Yeah.
So I, Facebook is my main.
bread and butter that that's where
i have all of my stuff um and theni'll also post on linkedin and
instagram um so that and then inregards to what type of post so
different types of posts just um iwill do like shift belief posts or
i'll do like a hand raiser postthat and then in regards to what
(33:34):
type of post so different types ofposts just um i will do like shift
belief posts or i'll do like ahand raiser post I'll do regular
Facebook lives.
Oh, let's stop there.
Because the other stuff's theother stuff.
Facebook live, that's interesting.
So is there a formula to that?
Do you just say, hey, I'm going togo live today and you go live and
do people actually come on?Can you maybe speak to that?
(33:57):
Yeah.
I don't know if people actually go
on.
I think I've seen people go on
before, but.
My computer set up in a way that I
don't know if I really actuallyeven see it.
So I should I should see if Icould do it differently.
So I think that was a new musclethat I was learning.
Ryan was to do social mediaregularly.
(34:19):
Encouraging that you don't havethat.
It's like that's for you.
And we'll talk about what's next
for you.
But I'm sitting here going like
you've you built up a lot ofstreet cred with your database.
And that's fed this monster foryou.
And that could continue to dothat, as you know.
But I'm very curious, like if youput some energy into social, I
(34:41):
already know it would work outvery well for you.
So let's do that.
Let's talk about and then we'll
wrap this up.
What's next?
Like what's next for Sylvia Ho?Is this like.
I'm just going to carry on mycurrent path and see what happens.
I feel like doubling my business,but not my expenses.
I still want to take vacations.
I'm just dialing in my skill set.
I don't know where it's going togo.
Like what's next for you?So definitely taking my vacations.
(35:07):
We're constantly on vacation modein the sense where like, okay,
where are we going next?What else is in store for Sylvia
for 2025?I think it's just.
getting better at doing what I'malready doing because it's
working, right?It's working for me.
And it's just, I can refine thingsand make it even more efficient
(35:32):
and better.
Does that make sense?
Oh, yeah.
Like I, do you see a world, I see
a world, do you see a world whereyou're doing 40 to 50 million with
the same input of time?I would love to do that.
I am sure that it is possible.
Do I see that happening?
I don't know.
Do you see that happening?
Well, you reverse engineer it andyou just go, okay, well, there's
something we need to fix if wewant to get there or maybe tweak.
(35:57):
So it's either I get higherquality.
I either get more book calls in,which would be from social media,
or I get higher quality.
I do less calls, but close the
same amount.
So then I qualify those calls even
more before they make their waythrough to a discovery call.
And I do that.
Or then I leverage my recorded
(36:19):
webinar.
And I go, how can I leverage that
with potentially paid ads goinginto that to then, and maybe it's
a lead magnet.
I put paid ads to a lead magnet
for the five -step guide on howlandlords can turn a cashflow
negative property into a positive.
You get an email, you nurture, but
you push the recorded one becausenow you're getting leverage with
less time.
Yeah, it's probably a very
(36:39):
combination of a bunch of things.
But yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I think I need to come backto you from work with you.
Tell me about Team Wiley.
So very cool.
But you're not like you're notshifting gears.
You're not slowing down.
You're just going to keep you're
(36:59):
going to see where this journeytakes you.
Yeah, I think I think I'm just I'mgoing to continue along this path.
I'm going to get even better atwhat I do.
I am going to continually protectmy time.
I don't work evenings.
I don't work weekends.
I don't need to work those times,right?
I think my biggest thing that myfocus is protecting my time.
Yeah.
(37:20):
I have to protect my time.
I have to protect the house.
And you taught me that, by the
way, you know that I have toprotect that.
And I also have to protect mymental space as well.
Right.
There's enough business out there
for everybody.
People can make lots of money.
(37:40):
Right.
But I think you're like for me for
this year, I feel that it's justdoubling down on what I love to
do.
staying focused not looking at
shiny objects everywhere andgetting better at the process
maybe my discovery calls are not45 minutes anymore maybe they're
only half an hour um so that maybei can get a few more extra in
(38:01):
there you know it's just aboutgetting better what i'm already
doing um and then the volumes ithink will just happen yeah they
will and word will spread and thesnowball effect will take over and
your referrals will come in fromyour they will and word will
spread and the snowball effectwill take over and your referrals
will come in from your clients andso my biggest takeaway from this
(38:23):
man i wish like i hope this issome of you listening's biggest
takeaway uh if it wasn't it shouldbe now is you have such extreme
clarity on what you're doing howyou're doing it how like you're
not even like yeah i'll do thisyou're like nope i'm losing first
time home buyers nope I'm losingpurchases with COFs.
(38:43):
Nope, you can't talk to me becauseof this.
Nope, you didn't answer thequestion right.
You're not on my calendar.
Nope, you're not.
And you're just like, and you'reso dialed in with protecting your
time and only talking to the rightpeople.
That is really hard to figure out.
And the fact you've got there, I
can tell it's taken years to getto that.
(39:06):
But man, oh man, what a differenceI see in you.
It's night and day.
And you and I have talked off and
on.
I don't think I've gotten this
much clarity on exactly yourmindset around it all.
And now I have it and I'm like,whoa, good for you.
You've got like a superpower now.
(39:26):
Before you had an idea of a
superpower.
Now you've got an actual
superpower.
So good for you.
Cool.
Congrats.
Yeah, very cool.
Very cool.
Okay, we're going to wrap this up.
Is there anything you wanted to
add in there before we go?I think it just all comes down to
(39:48):
is what do you really want?As like for the listeners out
there, what do you really want?And creating that life that you
want and then your business worksaround that and not have your
business and then have your lifework around that.
It's like.
What is it that Sylvia wants?
Sylvia wants a vacation.
Sylvia doesn't want to work
(40:08):
evenings.
She doesn't want to work weekends.
Okay, well, that means no COS.
That means no realtors, right?
So let's get away from that.
Okay, well, just focusing on what
you really want.
And I guess as we did this podcast
and as you walked me through myjourney, I didn't know that this
(40:30):
is where I would be five yearsago, right?
I think like now that I'm here,I'm like, I, I like this.
I like, I like this.
Right.
So figure out what you want and wemay not get it right the first
time.
Right.
But it's about figuring out, like,just figure out what you want and
then just focusing on that onething and, and stay away from the
(40:51):
shiny object syndrome because it'shard.
You're living proof.
This works like that.
Other people talk a game, they'regoing to do it, but they don't do
it.
And they get jumbled up into all
the same bullshit.
You're living proof of, and you
just, you clearly outlined whatyou said no to and how you said
it.
You made some sacrifices.
You took three steps back to take10 forward.
(41:12):
So freaking awesome.
Sylvia, thank you so much for
joining us.
I got stuff out of that.
So I know for sure peoplelistening got stuff out of it.
Yeah, I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
you.
Thanks, Ryan.
Thanks for helping me on this
journey.
Thanks for helping me.
Thanks for believing in me to helpyou, help you, you know what I'm
saying.
Anyways, that's it, kids.
(41:32):
Thank you for listening to TheMortgage Game.
We'll be back next week.
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