July 24, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode, I discuss the critical importance of defining a niche in the mortgage industry, because without a clear niche, brokers risk becoming irrelevant in a crowded market. I explain the need for specialization, the pros and cons of various strategies, and the significance of building a brand around personal strengths.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right, welcome to the Mortgage
Game Podcast.
West Coast Wiley, Whiteboard Wiley
in the house from the Dodge RamStudio, live at the beachfront.
Let's get to it.
If you don't define your niche,
(00:51):
the market's not going to do itfor you.
If you are not speaking a certainway to your people, your audience,
they're not going to help youdefine it.
You're just going to beirrelevant.
You're never going to cut throughthe noise.
So this is an ongoing topic thatwe've been having internal
conversations around on Team Wileyand just general and coaching.
And it's just starting to smack usin the face more and more and
(01:18):
more.
And I see a lot of people just
running around like chickens withtheir head cut off and doing 18
different things.
Not cutting through the noise.
The barrier on social media now,it is before.
Six, seven years ago, you just didsocial in the mortgage industry.
Let's be honest.
Our industries, we're a bunch of
dinosaurs when it comes to tech.
We're very archaic.
We're behind the real estateindustry in Canada.
(01:38):
And then we're also behind the USloan officers.
We're way behind them in a lot ofthings.
That's okay.
I'm okay with that.
But six years ago, you could gobuild a brand on social.
I know people who started onTikTok during COVID and they blew
up.
And they have a lot of followers
and they get a bunch of businessand a lot of leads from that now.
And so now it's just much harderto get traction from just showing
(02:00):
up and doing things becausethere's a lot of brokers out there
now doing social, which is cool.
But now it's time to like level up
your game.
That next one, you just showing up
talking about all the generalpitfalls of mortgage doesn't
necessarily cut it.
So on this podcast, I don't know.
I just want to.
Get you to start thinking
different.
I want you to think, like get
(02:20):
super serious about your business,about mapping out a plan.
And I want you to use thisframework.
I want you to think that you'regoing out to an investor and that
investor was going to, you'regoing to do a presentation.
They're going to sit across thetable and they're going, okay, you
want us to invest in your company?Let's get into it.
Show us who do you serve.
Right.
Like every business serves aperson.
It solves a problem.
If yours is I help people who need
(02:41):
a mortgage, not going to work.
You might find lightning in a
bottle now.
And we're in a couple of busier
months now where I know somebrokers are crushing it now.
But that's not going to be thegame forever.
And I see you.
I know you see this changing.
So I want to walk through thisconversation and my thinking life.
And this should hopefully.
Open up your eyes a bit where
(03:01):
you're like, ah, I get it now.
Because with every niche, there
are pros and cons.
Each of us have our own strength
as a mortgage broker, as a humanbeing.
Yet some of us are trying to builda mortgage business and not play
into our strengths.
So let's call it what it is.
I'll give you some specificexamples.
But let's call what it is.
And what if we built a business
that was around our strengths?And we become very open to what
(03:23):
the pros and cons are.
So I'll give you an example.
So there's a bunch of differenttypes of niches.
There's super specific strategyniches like cash damming, like
Smith Maneuver, like reversemortgages.
So the pros to those things arethey're going to cut through.
The avatar is defined.
Definitely on cash dam, that's
landlords or people with basementsuites.
It's defined your avatar for you.
If you start talking about it on
(03:47):
social and there's... lots ofpeople doing it and it's all
they're talking about and they'redoing very well.
So look around you.
If you see the same person talking
about the same thing, that shouldbe a, there's a thing in marketing
where you're like, if you seesomeone running ads, because you
can go see everyone's Facebook adsand whatnot under transparency,
(04:08):
page transparency on theirbusiness page.
If you go to that and you seethey're running the ad and they've
been running it for a year, 18months, why do you think they're
running it?Because it works.
If you see someone on social, allthey talk about is reverse
mortgages.
Why do you think that is?
Because it's work.
Do you think it's working?
Do you think there's doing itlike, no, they're just not telling
you what the plan is, but it'sfreaking working.
So you've got those strategic onesand we'll break down some pros and
(04:30):
cons in there.
And then you've got, because I
know there's a lot of you losingdeals to rate.
And so I'm going to give you someexamples of how you can defend
that.
Then you've got some more general
stuff.
You can be, I build a community
-based brand.
This is about building your brand.
Like, what are you going to beknown for in 2028, 2032?
Someone thinks you, they go, ah,got it.
Right.
I always knew there was this
(04:51):
waterfront condo girl back inBurlington.
I knew waterfront condos.
That's who I thought about.
I'm on the water.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
I know you should go to.
I had commercial guys.
I had new construction condo.
I had single family home.
I had people that work certainneighborhoods in real estate, but
for mortgages.
It's like you could get by with
this old business model of justdoing a bunch of everything and
(05:13):
never being phenomenal ateverything and being pulled in 12
different directions.
Well, those days are gone now
because you need to be more of aspecialist.
So you can either get your brandgoing with, hey, I'm so good at
content.
I pump out so much content.
My niche.
is me being good at content, me
being great on a camera, me seeingsocial trends and leaning into it,
me having a videographer thatfollows me around or I work with
(05:35):
once or twice a month that pumpsout awesome stuff, me being super
consistent, me understandingInstagram and what to post versus
me understanding Facebook orLinkedIn or TikTok or YouTube
shorts or YouTube long form, meunderstanding the platform, like
you understanding the algorithms.
and what to post and what not to
and when to post and how to postand what to say and what not to
say, that could be your niche.
(05:56):
And there are brokers who are
doing this who are just okaymortgage brokers.
But guess what's happening?People are coming in because
they're building so much trust andawareness and they're going wide
on their content.
They're talking about prepayment
privileges, fixed versus variable,reverse mortgages, rental cash.
They're all over the place.
But what they're good at, they're
(06:17):
throwing their strength.
and they enjoy it, is making
content.
Their strength isn't brokering
deals.
So hopefully that was like an aha,
like, oh shit, okay.
You could be a five out of 10.
I know five out of 10 mortgagebrokers that are making over a
million dollars a year becausetheir brand is really good.
And that's what they decided tofocus their energy on.
And then they just hire a team tohelp them with the other stuff.
(06:41):
But them themselves, they're notgreat mortgage brokers.
They lose deals all the time.
They lose deals to rate all the
time.
But guess what?
They're okay with it.
Or they're a little better than
the average broker at talkingtheir way through and handling
objections.
And a lot of you aren't good at
handling objections around rateand clearly defining your value
(07:03):
adds to a client as to why they'regoing to work with you for a 30
basis point premium.
Some more evolved brokers, they
have that.
They can wordsmith things on the
phone.
They're really slick on the phone.
They've been talking on the phonefor years.
And so they have a comfort level.
I have a comfort level with that.
Handling that conversation, askingpeople, explaining my value ads
very simply and clearly, and thengoing, am I your guy?
I'm going to hold you to that,Bob.
(07:25):
Am I your guy?Because I'm going to do a lot of
work for you, man.
But I'm going to show you how to
be mortgage -free six yearsfaster.
And yeah, my interest rate is notgoing to be as good as RBC.
I just get it all out in the open.
Could you go there and do it
yourself?Good luck.
Give her a go, Bob.
You don't get me.
So I did that.
(07:46):
I built a business building this
unwavering trust with people andhandling those conversations.
And I had no social media.
I had no brand.
I had a webinar.
But I was really good at that.
That was my strength.
So I leaned into it.
Some of you are trying that modelright now.
And a majority of you are.
And you're not good at it.
So call it what it is.
Either you up your freaking game
or you change the game, right?What's that saying?
(08:07):
Don't hate the player, hate thegame.
I hate that saying, but I'm like,you get the idea.
Someone hits you coming at youstrong with, hey, what's your best
rate?What's your best?
Don't feel frustrated by that.
That is going to happen.
That is never going away.
Be prepared to deal with it.
How are you going to deal with it?You should have a five -step plan.
A three, like that should be boom,boom, boom, boom, boom.
(08:27):
You should have role played 30,40, 50 hours of people to handle
that.
Should roll off your tongue like
that.
So if you're not going to do that,
now you start going, okay, isthere a niche I can do where it
takes the rate off the table?My clients value me a lot quicker,
right?There's a lot that we're going to
hit all these different angleshere of all these different
(08:48):
things.
And so you could just throw
yourself into content, knowingyou're going to lose deals to rate
and be okay with it.
But you're going to get 100 swings
of the play.
Baseball analogy, you're going to
get 100 discovery calls that weekversus having the three or four
you're having now and two or threeare losing to rate because you're
not equipped enough.
You don't have the skill set to
handle that conversation.
Ah, this should be like cluing in
(09:09):
here.
It's not one size fits all.
You're not supposed to go out andtalk about 12 different things and
then handle the rate conversationand knock it out of the park.
That's not, not everyone does it.
Not everyone's wired to do that.
And then what ends up happeningwith this?
I was chatting with an agent onthe team and she's like, Ryan,
when I lose a file, I'm not superawesome at what to say on that
(09:30):
rate.
And I have my strategies and I
implement them here, there, butI'm not good at that.
And then when I lose a filebecause it went to rate, even
though I gave them everything andthey didn't see the light, it
wears on me and I lose the wind inmy sails.
I feel a little deflated and itstarts to.
seep into other areas of mybusiness.
(09:52):
Now, all of a sudden, that contentI was going to go make that day, I
don't feel like doing it so much.
Now, all of a sudden, I have to go
chase clients around for paperworkon other files.
I feel less motivated for that.
And now I have to rally the troops
in my head and get back at it forthe next call.
But I feel like I have the sameweapons.
I talked about a couple ofstrategies, but I'm not good at
fighting the client for theirtrust.
I'd rather it be there alreadythrough the strategy.
(10:12):
So she shifted gears, shiftedgears from being a refinance
specialist, showing them how to dodebt console, debt swap, or power
the paycheck, the man won.
That's always going to come back
to interest rate.
At some point, somehow the
conversation comes in.
And if you keep losing files to
that, she's like, I'm going toswitch.
I don't know cash.
I'm going to go to that.
Because now the interest rate'soff the table and they already
value me.
No one else can do what I'm doing.
(10:34):
Very few people can.
And so, but here's the trade -off.
The con of that is this.
The pro is if you're a refinance
specialist and you can talk yourway around interest trading at
people who believe in you and youshow them numbers, you're still
going to lose files.
That's the con.
The pro is when you get them inthe door, it's probably four hours
(10:57):
of file.
Pretty easy peasy, right?
Refinance, no COFs, no referralpartners, money in the bank in 60
days, that kind of jam.
That sounds awesome.
Well, guess what?Another con is you have to cut
through the noise on socialbecause a lot of people are
talking cash flow.
A lot of people talk mortgage
-free faster.
So now your content has to be that
much better to cut through thenoise.
Whereas I'm just giving youexamples.
I'm not telling you what to dohere.
(11:19):
If you're cash down, you cutthrough the noise.
It's, hey, landlords, one or twoproperties.
Hey, people own a principalresidence with a basement suite.
Guess what?And now they come in.
But those files are going to beeight to 12 hours.
But you're not going to lose thefile to rate.
So it's going to be easier to getpeople's attention on social.
You will lose less people when youget working with them.
(11:40):
But you're going to work harderand longer for them.
But you'll have a deal there.
You'll get paid.
So now this becomes a, how do Iget really good at executing the
strategy and learning that and howto put that out on content?
And then how do I build a processthat keeps it super tight so the
client journey is awesome and myteam is awesome?
to execute on the file.
So those start to become your
challenges.
But now your challenge isn't
(12:01):
overcoming the rate objection,because that objection has already
been taken off the table.
Same as reverse mortgages.
Reverse mortgages, by the way,we're going to be doing probably a
six or seven -month deep dive onin Strategy Hub in 2026 at some
point.
There's a lot of ninja strategies
that the boys have around it.
That industry is not going away.
That product is not going away.
(12:21):
It defines your avatar.
55 plus owns a home with equity.
Okay.
Cuts through the noise.
Advanced strategy, you don't lose
on interest rate.
Remember, when I'm talking about
all this stuff, I'm not saying youdon't do any other deals.
But I'm talking about if you'retalking to an investor and you're
showing them your marketing plan,your business plan, this is who
it's geared towards.
But other people are going to come
in the door.
(12:41):
Other people, and you're just
going to decide moment if it'ssomething you want to do.
So you're not saying no to otherbusiness.
But what you are saying yes to isyou're saying yes to clarity.
And clarity will lead toconsistency.
Consistency in peopleunderstanding your message and in
you going out there.
Remember this saying, this is an
important one.
You get tired of your marketing
way before your avatar ever does.
Just because you keep talking
(13:02):
about whatever you're talkingabout.
If it's reverse mortgages or it'scash down.
If that's all I talk about and Ishow different angles of and 70 %
of my content is that.
I should be breaking down into
like, not where I'm just goingfrom before and after.
one piece of content.
The other one is the nuances of a
calculator, the nuances of aclosing cost, the nuances of the
(13:23):
outcome or the challenge they werehaving or live deals we worked on.
You can split that all up so younever run out of stuff to talk
about.
And that's where your head should
start going on that completelyniched out stuff.
And so those nuances will give youunlimited content to put out
there.
So when we're talking about Going
into your niche, you've got thepros and cons.
(13:43):
You've got, we did cash jamming.
We did reverse mortgage.
You did, you could build acommunity brand where it's all
about the community and youshowcase small businesses in the
community on your social.
You walking up to a coffee shop,
the name of it, showing the menu,showing you order.
You can even talk to the personwho owns about mortgages.
You're going to share it as acollaboration, splice it together
(14:05):
super easy in two, three minutes,fire that off.
The asthma is a collaborator.
They're going to put it out.
You're the community -basedbroker.
right you get people in the doorbecause of the community how you
make them feel you have a heart-based business you just you
always give give give give give noexpectations that's the vibe
that's the energy you're beingseen a local you're just always
just helping everybody when theycome in now you have to a team
(14:27):
that's going to help youunderstand you're going to have a
tight client journey like a lot ofthose community -based brokers do
They end up doing too much workfor the client, but that's like
their secret sauce.
But they don't have strategies up
their sleeve.
Once in a while, they pull
something out.
But they're going to still lose
deals to rate.
But guess what?
They get more swings at the plate.
(14:48):
They get more people in.
So you can have a community -basedthing.
You can have a couple ofstrategies you do on the back end.
And eventually, over time, you'llevolve as a broker getting good at
handling the rate conversation.
But the rate conversation is not
going away.
So then the question is, what are
you going to do with it?Are you going to be a strategy
broker where you could have abunch of strategies?
(15:09):
And that's cool.
You could be strategy specific
broker.
And this can evolve over time.
This isn't something that you arestuck to because you're like, damn
it, I've just been talking aboutcash damming forever.
And that's all I've been.
No, you can change it.
You can shift gears at some point.
You can sprinkle other things in.
But let's not confuse people.
Let's not.
If cash dam is your thing.
I built a whole brand on this in
(15:30):
one of our cash damn boot camps.
It was called, oh my God,
Landlord.
Oh my God, something Landlord.
It was such a good brand, I forgotit.
It actually was a really good, itwas a good brand.
It was something Landlord.
Oh my goodness, how do I not
remember this?My brain's going crazy.
I'm staring at the water and thebeach.
I'm sorry, guys.
It'll hit me eventually at some
point.
But I built a whole thing around.
I'm like, Before I go talkingabout 18 other things, I'm going
(15:53):
to get my content dialed in aroundone thing, the process dialed in
around it, my webinar dialed inaround it.
I'll start a podcast too.
You don't even have to do that.
But the webinar on it, I'm goingto go, what am I committing to
social wise?Who's my avatar referral partner
that I'm going to identify?Because referral partners will
come in your world.
Who am I going to start opening
(16:14):
that's watching my content?Am I doing prospecting?
But I'm just going to sit on thatone thing.
I'm not going to shift gears.
I'm not going to go to reverse
mortgage.
I'm going to go build a brand
around this.
You can build a very spectacular
thing, but you have to cater it toyour strengths.
And so from doing cash hamming,Smith Maneuver, reverse mortgages,
(16:36):
you've taken away the rightconversation.
And a lot of you, that's yourbiggest downfall.
You can't handle the rateconversation.
And it takes 200 swings at theplate to get better at it.
But you don't have to catch 22.
You don't have 200 swings at the
plate coming in.
So every call is that important.
So what does that tell you?Tells you you need more calls.
So maybe you, if that's the worldyou're going to live in, you're
(16:59):
always going to, the rateconversation is never going to go
away.
So then you better get damn good
at content, right?At building out your marketing.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
Everyone's doing it around you insome form, but there is a lot of
content being out there withpeople I see doing nine different
types of things and their contentis just okay.
I'd rather you talk about onething over and over, one avatar
you help and get your contentreally good.
(17:21):
And then you can take that samemodel with a different avatar if
you choose.
But once you get going there,
you'll quickly realize, You don'thave to.
So you have the community -basedbroker, still going to have the
rate conversation.
You've got the content -based
broker, still going to have therate conversation.
You've got cash damming, reversemortgages, Smith Maneuver.
(17:45):
That is the rate conversation goesaway and it clearly defines your
avatar.
The other one, the content -based
and the community -based broker,that being your niche, doesn't
clearly define your avatar.
So now you're back to dealing with
everybody.
right?
Which also, once again, pros andcons to everything puts stress on
your team because now you'retrying to juggle A's, your team
(18:07):
because now you're trying tojuggle A's, B's, privates, being
good at all this stuff and good atcontent.
So this is stuff I highly suggestyou do.
We're going to have a brandingbootcamp, a one day thing here.
I don't know if it's just going tobe internal, if we're going to
bring it out, but we're going totalk about this and we're going to
go, hey, let's have you map outthe pros and cons.
(18:27):
And what are your strengths as amortgage broker?
And what do you like to do?It all stems around content
though.
And so I want to just start this
conversation.
We're going to talk about a lot
more with a lot more specificexamples as we go through more
episodes of this and we do thatbranding bootcamp.
This is how when you sit down withthe investor and you go, this is
who we serve and the problem wesolve.
(18:49):
Cool.
And how do you plan on getting
them?I'm going to do X. How are you
going to do that?You're going to build a brand
social.
How?
How many posts are you doing?What type of posts are you doing?
When are they scheduled?What platform are you sending it
on?How are you getting your email
address?What's the follow -up?
(19:09):
How are you getting them offlineinto your email address?
How are you marketing to themongoing through database
marketing?What are you doing there?
How are you proactively reachingout to those people engaging with
your content?This should all be mapped out, but
it gets really hard.
This is the part I'm really trying
to piece together for you.
It gets hard.
if you're trying to talk toeverybody, to have all these
(19:30):
different levels of discoverycalls.
There's something really, reallynice about people coming in on
discovery calls, and they're therefor one reason, because of the
thing you stand for.
Personally, me, I'm not the
content broker.
I'm not the community broker.
Me, I pick a very specificstrategy, and I go all in on that,
and I become that person.
I still get a lot of other
business and I choose to do it ornot.
If you're BFS, if BFS is yourniche and you're really good at
it, okay, that's cool.
(19:50):
But you're speaking to a lot of
different people and it coverscredit challenge, not credit
challenge, AB private.
Remember, there's takes two to
tangle here.
There's two sides of the story.
You have to cut through the noisewith someone.
You have to want to deal withthem.
You have to be good at dealingwith them.
And then you have to have thepartner with the lender on the
(20:11):
other side.
And so I see the people that are
building the community -basedbrokering and the content -based
brokering.
And it's not my sweet spot because
the sweet spot is I have to have ateam.
And I don't want to manage a teamof four or five people.
Don't want to do it.
It's not something I enjoy doing.
I'd rather crush out 50, 60million working 15 hours a week.
Been there, done that.
That's my jam.
(20:31):
That works for me and mylifestyle.
For other people, they geek out onthat.
I want to be so well known in thecommunity, walk down the street,
have my pumpkin patch giveawaysand have all this.
And I jump in the coffee shop andeveryone's like, Ryan, what's up?
Yeah.
And I'm like, yeah.
Howard Morgan just said, great.
(20:52):
Tony the Tiger here.
And I'm like, yeah, it's toobubbly for me.
Not my thing.
Can we just cut through the fluff
and get to the thing?That's what I want.
So I would be a strategic brokerand I'd have a specific strategy.
And then my marketing's dialed in.
My stories are that.
(21:12):
My reels are that.
The platforms are that.
My podcasts are that.
Everything is talking about that
one thing.
You don't have a choice but to
think about me when that topiccomes across your plate somehow,
someway.
And remember, you're not
pigeonholed to your small town.
Too many of you are like, I live
in a small town.
Bullocks.
You have a province.
And if you've got access to other
provinces, you have otherprovinces.
If you're in Ontario and you're inSault Ste.
(21:32):
Marie, you've got all of Ontario,right?
And referral partners will startcoming out of the weeds.
I'm proving this right now.
I'm a little over two years in on
Instagram, going pretty deep onit.
And I have realtors reaching outto me monthly now going, Ryan,
love to send, love your energy.
They still think I'm brokering.
So maybe my content isn't thatgood.
I'm confusing people.
(21:53):
I guess I must be.
Because I have people sending metheir leads.
They want me to do their ownmortgage.
And I have referral partners,realtors reaching out to me,
going, oh, I'd love to referclients to you.
I love your vibe.
I love how authentic you are.
I just love the energy.
And I'd love my clients would
benefit.
Could we jump on a call?
And I'm like, yeah, man, I don'tbroker anymore.
(22:13):
But I'm proving it behind thescenes.
The same thing happens.
And I just keep talking about the
same thing.
Most of you know, I've been
consuming my content.
You have a very good idea of what
I stand for and what I do.
It's not like wishy -washy.
You kind of know.
You're like, yeah, he's building
(22:34):
the team and he runs strategy huband advanced strategies and he's
good at sales and marketing andhe's building a brand on social.
Like that's what I talk about allday long, like 60 hours a week.
That's what I do.
Very clear, right?
I'm not off there doing otherthings.
I'm not telling you we have anunderwriting hub and I'm so good
at underwriting and structuringfiles and over here.
(22:54):
And I love speaking atconferences.
You know my stance on that.
Ironically, I am speaking at an
upcoming conference.
Just funny again.
I don't shy away from it.
I just don't look for it.
So it's one of those things.
You need to like look yourself in
the mirror here at some point andget real about your business.
And I don't know what story you'retelling yourself.
I don't know who's telling you thestories, but being a generalist is
(23:16):
going to burn you.
It is going to burn you if it
hasn't already.
And the reason we started this
whole conversation because I knowgeneral top brokers who are
generalists who are now calling meand they're asking me to coach
them.
on being a specialist at something
because their books are droppingdramatically.
And the old game of renewal time,turn in the book of renewal or at
the three to four year mark forrefis, that's out the window right
now.
They've shawled their bullets.
(23:37):
It's not working.
So they're like, oh, shit, I have
to switch gears.
Should have done it earlier.
The people that said social is awaste.
I don't understand.
I don't get it.
Oh, shit.
They're two years behind the eight
ball now.
Right.
Talk to a couple of people thisweek who went all in on social in
the last three, four years and 75to 90 percent of their books
coming from their social for thefirst couple of years.
(23:59):
And then it shifts to referralbased stuff coming in.
The social media stuff drops downto 25 to 50 percent because now
you start building up a book andpeople people love, like and trust
you.
And so that's what happens.
And if you pick a niche, guesswhat happens?
You help the person that needsthat strategy.
They know other people that needthe strategy.
You're just not seeing past that.
(24:20):
You're being too selfish.
You want these perfect answers.
If I do this, I get that.
If I do reverse mortgages, Ryan, Igot to say no to all the other
stuff.
No, you don't.
You can do it.
But at some point, you're all in
on reverse.
And there's a big learning curve,
much like cash time.
There's a big learning curve.
Whereas to do refinances, be knownas the refinance expert to
increase cash flow and help youhave your mortgage faster, the
(24:42):
learning curve is a littleshorter.
The amount of time you're going towork on the deals is shorter, but
it's harder to cut through thenoise on social and you're going
to lose deals to rate.
So you have to be okay with that
until you're really, really goodat it, which takes you hundreds of
calls.
Okay, that's it, kids.
We're starting to talk in circlesand I don't want to do that
(25:04):
anymore.
You get the idea.
Brand, brand, brand.
What does your brand stand for?
I should know watching three,four, five of your reels what you
stand for.
And if it's just a mix match, a
blibbity blop, cool.
You can still change that.
But it's like, I'm not investingin your company.
And that's how we're starting tolook at things when we're looking
at who we're going to partnerwith.
It's like, we're investing ourtime.
And we are investing money too,paying people to do things.
(25:27):
It's like, what do you stand for?What are you trying to build?
How can we complement it?Right?
If you're starting from scratch,we're less likely to help.
So anyways, that's it, kids.
Enjoy the rest of your week.
Hopefully you got some from that.
I know I did just going through
this again.
That's it, kids.
Thanks for the support.
Okay, peace out.
Welcome to the mortgage game.
I truly, truly believe that
building a mortgage business, asuccessful one, is like playing a
game.
There's winners, there's losers,
there's certain things you try.
Some of us are playing checkers,
while others are playing chess.
I've had the ability to coach and
mentor hundreds of mortgagebrokers.
I myself built a very nicebusiness, so now I want to distill
(00:27):
all that information, all thethings I've learned from that, and
bring it directly to you in asimple -to -understand way.
I hope you enjoy.
All right, welcome to the Mortgage
Game Podcast.
West Coast Wiley, Whiteboard Wiley
in the house from the Dodge RamStudio, live at the beachfront.
Let's get to it.
If you don't define your niche,
(00:51):
the market's not going to do itfor you.
If you are not speaking a certainway to your people, your audience,
they're not going to help youdefine it.
You're just going to beirrelevant.
You're never going to cut throughthe noise.
So this is an ongoing topic thatwe've been having internal
conversations around on Team Wileyand just general and coaching.
And it's just starting to smack usin the face more and more and
(01:18):
more.
And I see a lot of people just
running around like chickens withtheir head cut off and doing 18
different things.
Not cutting through the noise.
The barrier on social media now,it is before.
Six, seven years ago, you just didsocial in the mortgage industry.
Let's be honest.
Our industries, we're a bunch of
dinosaurs when it comes to tech.
We're very archaic.
We're behind the real estateindustry in Canada.
(01:38):
And then we're also behind the USloan officers.
We're way behind them in a lot ofthings.
That's okay.
I'm okay with that.
But six years ago, you could gobuild a brand on social.
I know people who started onTikTok during COVID and they blew
up.
And they have a lot of followers
and they get a bunch of businessand a lot of leads from that now.
And so now it's just much harderto get traction from just showing
(02:00):
up and doing things becausethere's a lot of brokers out there
now doing social, which is cool.
But now it's time to like level up
your game.
That next one, you just showing up
talking about all the generalpitfalls of mortgage doesn't
necessarily cut it.
So on this podcast, I don't know.
I just want to.
Get you to start thinking
different.
I want you to think, like get
(02:20):
super serious about your business,about mapping out a plan.
And I want you to use thisframework.
I want you to think that you'regoing out to an investor and that
investor was going to, you'regoing to do a presentation.
They're going to sit across thetable and they're going, okay, you
want us to invest in your company?Let's get into it.
Show us who do you serve.
Right.
Like every business serves aperson.
It solves a problem.
If yours is I help people who need
(02:41):
a mortgage, not going to work.
You might find lightning in a
bottle now.
And we're in a couple of busier
months now where I know somebrokers are crushing it now.
But that's not going to be thegame forever.
And I see you.
I know you see this changing.
So I want to walk through thisconversation and my thinking life.
And this should hopefully.
Open up your eyes a bit where
(03:01):
you're like, ah, I get it now.
Because with every niche, there
are pros and cons.
Each of us have our own strength
as a mortgage broker, as a humanbeing.
Yet some of us are trying to builda mortgage business and not play
into our strengths.
So let's call it what it is.
I'll give you some specificexamples.
But let's call what it is.
And what if we built a business
that was around our strengths?And we become very open to what
(03:23):
the pros and cons are.
So I'll give you an example.
So there's a bunch of differenttypes of niches.
There's super specific strategyniches like cash damming, like
Smith Maneuver, like reversemortgages.
So the pros to those things arethey're going to cut through.
The avatar is defined.
Definitely on cash dam, that's
landlords or people with basementsuites.
It's defined your avatar for you.
If you start talking about it on
(03:47):
social and there's... lots ofpeople doing it and it's all
they're talking about and they'redoing very well.
So look around you.
If you see the same person talking
about the same thing, that shouldbe a, there's a thing in marketing
where you're like, if you seesomeone running ads, because you
can go see everyone's Facebook adsand whatnot under transparency,
(04:08):
page transparency on theirbusiness page.
If you go to that and you seethey're running the ad and they've
been running it for a year, 18months, why do you think they're
running it?Because it works.
If you see someone on social, allthey talk about is reverse
mortgages.
Why do you think that is?
Because it's work.
Do you think it's working?
Do you think there's doing itlike, no, they're just not telling
you what the plan is, but it'sfreaking working.
So you've got those strategic onesand we'll break down some pros and
(04:30):
cons in there.
And then you've got, because I
know there's a lot of you losingdeals to rate.
And so I'm going to give you someexamples of how you can defend
that.
Then you've got some more general
stuff.
You can be, I build a community
-based brand.
This is about building your brand.
Like, what are you going to beknown for in 2028, 2032?
Someone thinks you, they go, ah,got it.
Right.
I always knew there was this
(04:51):
waterfront condo girl back inBurlington.
I knew waterfront condos.
That's who I thought about.
I'm on the water.
Boom, boom, boom, boom.
I know you should go to.
I had commercial guys.
I had new construction condo.
I had single family home.
I had people that work certainneighborhoods in real estate, but
for mortgages.
It's like you could get by with
this old business model of justdoing a bunch of everything and
(05:13):
never being phenomenal ateverything and being pulled in 12
different directions.
Well, those days are gone now
because you need to be more of aspecialist.
So you can either get your brandgoing with, hey, I'm so good at
content.
I pump out so much content.
My niche.
is me being good at content, me
being great on a camera, me seeingsocial trends and leaning into it,
me having a videographer thatfollows me around or I work with
(05:35):
once or twice a month that pumpsout awesome stuff, me being super
consistent, me understandingInstagram and what to post versus
me understanding Facebook orLinkedIn or TikTok or YouTube
shorts or YouTube long form, meunderstanding the platform, like
you understanding the algorithms.
and what to post and what not to
and when to post and how to postand what to say and what not to
say, that could be your niche.
(05:56):
And there are brokers who are
doing this who are just okaymortgage brokers.
But guess what's happening?People are coming in because
they're building so much trust andawareness and they're going wide
on their content.
They're talking about prepayment
privileges, fixed versus variable,reverse mortgages, rental cash.
They're all over the place.
But what they're good at, they're
(06:17):
throwing their strength.
and they enjoy it, is making
content.
Their strength isn't brokering
deals.
So hopefully that was like an aha,
like, oh shit, okay.
You could be a five out of 10.
I know five out of 10 mortgagebrokers that are making over a
million dollars a year becausetheir brand is really good.
And that's what they decided tofocus their energy on.
And then they just hire a team tohelp them with the other stuff.
(06:41):
But them themselves, they're notgreat mortgage brokers.
They lose deals all the time.
They lose deals to rate all the
time.
But guess what?
They're okay with it.
Or they're a little better than
the average broker at talkingtheir way through and handling
objections.
And a lot of you aren't good at
handling objections around rateand clearly defining your value
(07:03):
adds to a client as to why they'regoing to work with you for a 30
basis point premium.
Some more evolved brokers, they
have that.
They can wordsmith things on the
phone.
They're really slick on the phone.
They've been talking on the phonefor years.
And so they have a comfort level.
I have a comfort level with that.
Handling that conversation, askingpeople, explaining my value ads
very simply and clearly, and thengoing, am I your guy?
I'm going to hold you to that,Bob.
(07:25):
Am I your guy?Because I'm going to do a lot of
work for you, man.
But I'm going to show you how to
be mortgage -free six yearsfaster.
And yeah, my interest rate is notgoing to be as good as RBC.
I just get it all out in the open.
Could you go there and do it
yourself?Good luck.
Give her a go, Bob.
You don't get me.
So I did that.
(07:46):
I built a business building this
unwavering trust with people andhandling those conversations.
And I had no social media.
I had no brand.
I had a webinar.
But I was really good at that.
That was my strength.
So I leaned into it.
Some of you are trying that modelright now.
And a majority of you are.
And you're not good at it.
So call it what it is.
Either you up your freaking game
or you change the game, right?What's that saying?
(08:07):
Don't hate the player, hate thegame.
I hate that saying, but I'm like,you get the idea.
Someone hits you coming at youstrong with, hey, what's your best
rate?What's your best?
Don't feel frustrated by that.
That is going to happen.
That is never going away.
Be prepared to deal with it.
How are you going to deal with it?You should have a five -step plan.
A three, like that should be boom,boom, boom, boom, boom.
(08:27):
You should have role played 30,40, 50 hours of people to handle
that.
Should roll off your tongue like
that.
So if you're not going to do that,
now you start going, okay, isthere a niche I can do where it
takes the rate off the table?My clients value me a lot quicker,
right?There's a lot that we're going to
hit all these different angleshere of all these different
(08:48):
things.
And so you could just throw
yourself into content, knowingyou're going to lose deals to rate
and be okay with it.
But you're going to get 100 swings
of the play.
Baseball analogy, you're going to
get 100 discovery calls that weekversus having the three or four
you're having now and two or threeare losing to rate because you're
not equipped enough.
You don't have the skill set to
handle that conversation.
Ah, this should be like cluing in
(09:09):
here.
It's not one size fits all.
You're not supposed to go out andtalk about 12 different things and
then handle the rate conversationand knock it out of the park.
That's not, not everyone does it.
Not everyone's wired to do that.
And then what ends up happeningwith this?
I was chatting with an agent onthe team and she's like, Ryan,
when I lose a file, I'm not superawesome at what to say on that
(09:30):
rate.
And I have my strategies and I
implement them here, there, butI'm not good at that.
And then when I lose a filebecause it went to rate, even
though I gave them everything andthey didn't see the light, it
wears on me and I lose the wind inmy sails.
I feel a little deflated and itstarts to.
seep into other areas of mybusiness.
(09:52):
Now, all of a sudden, that contentI was going to go make that day, I
don't feel like doing it so much.
Now, all of a sudden, I have to go
chase clients around for paperworkon other files.
I feel less motivated for that.
And now I have to rally the troops
in my head and get back at it forthe next call.
But I feel like I have the sameweapons.
I talked about a couple ofstrategies, but I'm not good at
fighting the client for theirtrust.
I'd rather it be there alreadythrough the strategy.
(10:12):
So she shifted gears, shiftedgears from being a refinance
specialist, showing them how to dodebt console, debt swap, or power
the paycheck, the man won.
That's always going to come back
to interest rate.
At some point, somehow the
conversation comes in.
And if you keep losing files to
that, she's like, I'm going toswitch.
I don't know cash.
I'm going to go to that.
Because now the interest rate'soff the table and they already
value me.
No one else can do what I'm doing.
(10:34):
Very few people can.
And so, but here's the trade -off.
The con of that is this.
The pro is if you're a refinance
specialist and you can talk yourway around interest trading at
people who believe in you and youshow them numbers, you're still
going to lose files.
That's the con.
The pro is when you get them inthe door, it's probably four hours
(10:57):
of file.
Pretty easy peasy, right?
Refinance, no COFs, no referralpartners, money in the bank in 60
days, that kind of jam.
That sounds awesome.
Well, guess what?Another con is you have to cut
through the noise on socialbecause a lot of people are
talking cash flow.
A lot of people talk mortgage
-free faster.
So now your content has to be that
much better to cut through thenoise.
Whereas I'm just giving youexamples.
I'm not telling you what to dohere.
(11:19):
If you're cash down, you cutthrough the noise.
It's, hey, landlords, one or twoproperties.
Hey, people own a principalresidence with a basement suite.
Guess what?And now they come in.
But those files are going to beeight to 12 hours.
But you're not going to lose thefile to rate.
So it's going to be easier to getpeople's attention on social.
You will lose less people when youget working with them.
(11:40):
But you're going to work harderand longer for them.
But you'll have a deal there.
You'll get paid.
So now this becomes a, how do Iget really good at executing the
strategy and learning that and howto put that out on content?
And then how do I build a processthat keeps it super tight so the
client journey is awesome and myteam is awesome?
to execute on the file.
So those start to become your
challenges.
But now your challenge isn't
(12:01):
overcoming the rate objection,because that objection has already
been taken off the table.
Same as reverse mortgages.
Reverse mortgages, by the way,we're going to be doing probably a
six or seven -month deep dive onin Strategy Hub in 2026 at some
point.
There's a lot of ninja strategies
that the boys have around it.
That industry is not going away.
That product is not going away.
(12:21):
It defines your avatar.
55 plus owns a home with equity.
Okay.
Cuts through the noise.
Advanced strategy, you don't lose
on interest rate.
Remember, when I'm talking about
all this stuff, I'm not saying youdon't do any other deals.
But I'm talking about if you'retalking to an investor and you're
showing them your marketing plan,your business plan, this is who
it's geared towards.
But other people are going to come
in the door.
(12:41):
Other people, and you're just
going to decide moment if it'ssomething you want to do.
So you're not saying no to otherbusiness.
But what you are saying yes to isyou're saying yes to clarity.
And clarity will lead toconsistency.
Consistency in peopleunderstanding your message and in
you going out there.
Remember this saying, this is an
important one.
You get tired of your marketing
way before your avatar ever does.
Just because you keep talking
(13:02):
about whatever you're talkingabout.
If it's reverse mortgages or it'scash down.
If that's all I talk about and Ishow different angles of and 70 %
of my content is that.
I should be breaking down into
like, not where I'm just goingfrom before and after.
one piece of content.
The other one is the nuances of a
calculator, the nuances of aclosing cost, the nuances of the
(13:23):
outcome or the challenge they werehaving or live deals we worked on.
You can split that all up so younever run out of stuff to talk
about.
And that's where your head should
start going on that completelyniched out stuff.
And so those nuances will give youunlimited content to put out
there.
So when we're talking about Going
into your niche, you've got thepros and cons.
(13:43):
You've got, we did cash jamming.
We did reverse mortgage.
You did, you could build acommunity brand where it's all
about the community and youshowcase small businesses in the
community on your social.
You walking up to a coffee shop,
the name of it, showing the menu,showing you order.
You can even talk to the personwho owns about mortgages.
You're going to share it as acollaboration, splice it together
(14:05):
super easy in two, three minutes,fire that off.
The asthma is a collaborator.
They're going to put it out.
You're the community -basedbroker.
right you get people in the doorbecause of the community how you
make them feel you have a heart-based business you just you
always give give give give give noexpectations that's the vibe
that's the energy you're beingseen a local you're just always
just helping everybody when theycome in now you have to a team
(14:27):
that's going to help youunderstand you're going to have a
tight client journey like a lot ofthose community -based brokers do
They end up doing too much workfor the client, but that's like
their secret sauce.
But they don't have strategies up
their sleeve.
Once in a while, they pull
something out.
But they're going to still lose
deals to rate.
But guess what?
They get more swings at the plate.
(14:48):
They get more people in.
So you can have a community -basedthing.
You can have a couple ofstrategies you do on the back end.
And eventually, over time, you'llevolve as a broker getting good at
handling the rate conversation.
But the rate conversation is not
going away.
So then the question is, what are
you going to do with it?Are you going to be a strategy
broker where you could have abunch of strategies?
(15:09):
And that's cool.
You could be strategy specific
broker.
And this can evolve over time.
This isn't something that you arestuck to because you're like, damn
it, I've just been talking aboutcash damming forever.
And that's all I've been.
No, you can change it.
You can shift gears at some point.
You can sprinkle other things in.
But let's not confuse people.
Let's not.
If cash dam is your thing.
I built a whole brand on this in
(15:30):
one of our cash damn boot camps.
It was called, oh my God,
Landlord.
Oh my God, something Landlord.
It was such a good brand, I forgotit.
It actually was a really good, itwas a good brand.
It was something Landlord.
Oh my goodness, how do I not
remember this?My brain's going crazy.
I'm staring at the water and thebeach.
I'm sorry, guys.
It'll hit me eventually at some
point.
But I built a whole thing around.
I'm like, Before I go talkingabout 18 other things, I'm going
(15:53):
to get my content dialed in aroundone thing, the process dialed in
around it, my webinar dialed inaround it.
I'll start a podcast too.
You don't even have to do that.
But the webinar on it, I'm goingto go, what am I committing to
social wise?Who's my avatar referral partner
that I'm going to identify?Because referral partners will
come in your world.
Who am I going to start opening
(16:14):
that's watching my content?Am I doing prospecting?
But I'm just going to sit on thatone thing.
I'm not going to shift gears.
I'm not going to go to reverse
mortgage.
I'm going to go build a brand
around this.
You can build a very spectacular
thing, but you have to cater it toyour strengths.
And so from doing cash hamming,Smith Maneuver, reverse mortgages,
(16:36):
you've taken away the rightconversation.
And a lot of you, that's yourbiggest downfall.
You can't handle the rateconversation.
And it takes 200 swings at theplate to get better at it.
But you don't have to catch 22.
You don't have 200 swings at the
plate coming in.
So every call is that important.
So what does that tell you?Tells you you need more calls.
So maybe you, if that's the worldyou're going to live in, you're
(16:59):
always going to, the rateconversation is never going to go
away.
So then you better get damn good
at content, right?At building out your marketing.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
Everyone's doing it around you insome form, but there is a lot of
content being out there withpeople I see doing nine different
types of things and their contentis just okay.
I'd rather you talk about onething over and over, one avatar
you help and get your contentreally good.
(17:21):
And then you can take that samemodel with a different avatar if
you choose.
But once you get going there,
you'll quickly realize, You don'thave to.
So you have the community -basedbroker, still going to have the
rate conversation.
You've got the content -based
broker, still going to have therate conversation.
You've got cash damming, reversemortgages, Smith Maneuver.
(17:45):
That is the rate conversation goesaway and it clearly defines your
avatar.
The other one, the content -based
and the community -based broker,that being your niche, doesn't
clearly define your avatar.
So now you're back to dealing with
everybody.
right?
Which also, once again, pros andcons to everything puts stress on
your team because now you'retrying to juggle A's, your team
(18:07):
because now you're trying tojuggle A's, B's, privates, being
good at all this stuff and good atcontent.
So this is stuff I highly suggestyou do.
We're going to have a brandingbootcamp, a one day thing here.
I don't know if it's just going tobe internal, if we're going to
bring it out, but we're going totalk about this and we're going to
go, hey, let's have you map outthe pros and cons.
(18:27):
And what are your strengths as amortgage broker?
And what do you like to do?It all stems around content
though.
And so I want to just start this
conversation.
We're going to talk about a lot
more with a lot more specificexamples as we go through more
episodes of this and we do thatbranding bootcamp.
This is how when you sit down withthe investor and you go, this is
who we serve and the problem wesolve.
(18:49):
Cool.
And how do you plan on getting
them?I'm going to do X. How are you
going to do that?You're going to build a brand
social.
How?
How many posts are you doing?What type of posts are you doing?
When are they scheduled?What platform are you sending it
on?How are you getting your email
address?What's the follow -up?
(19:09):
How are you getting them offlineinto your email address?
How are you marketing to themongoing through database
marketing?What are you doing there?
How are you proactively reachingout to those people engaging with
your content?This should all be mapped out, but
it gets really hard.
This is the part I'm really trying
to piece together for you.
It gets hard.
if you're trying to talk toeverybody, to have all these
(19:30):
different levels of discoverycalls.
There's something really, reallynice about people coming in on
discovery calls, and they're therefor one reason, because of the
thing you stand for.
Personally, me, I'm not the
content broker.
I'm not the community broker.
Me, I pick a very specificstrategy, and I go all in on that,
and I become that person.
I still get a lot of other
business and I choose to do it ornot.
If you're BFS, if BFS is yourniche and you're really good at
it, okay, that's cool.
(19:50):
But you're speaking to a lot of
different people and it coverscredit challenge, not credit
challenge, AB private.
Remember, there's takes two to
tangle here.
There's two sides of the story.
You have to cut through the noisewith someone.
You have to want to deal withthem.
You have to be good at dealingwith them.
And then you have to have thepartner with the lender on the
(20:11):
other side.
And so I see the people that are
building the community -basedbrokering and the content -based
brokering.
And it's not my sweet spot because
the sweet spot is I have to have ateam.
And I don't want to manage a teamof four or five people.
Don't want to do it.
It's not something I enjoy doing.
I'd rather crush out 50, 60million working 15 hours a week.
Been there, done that.
That's my jam.
(20:31):
That works for me and mylifestyle.
For other people, they geek out onthat.
I want to be so well known in thecommunity, walk down the street,
have my pumpkin patch giveawaysand have all this.
And I jump in the coffee shop andeveryone's like, Ryan, what's up?
Yeah.
And I'm like, yeah.
Howard Morgan just said, great.
(20:52):
Tony the Tiger here.
And I'm like, yeah, it's toobubbly for me.
Not my thing.
Can we just cut through the fluff
and get to the thing?That's what I want.
So I would be a strategic brokerand I'd have a specific strategy.
And then my marketing's dialed in.
My stories are that.
(21:12):
My reels are that.
The platforms are that.
My podcasts are that.
Everything is talking about that
one thing.
You don't have a choice but to
think about me when that topiccomes across your plate somehow,
someway.
And remember, you're not
pigeonholed to your small town.
Too many of you are like, I live
in a small town.
Bullocks.
You have a province.
And if you've got access to other
provinces, you have otherprovinces.
If you're in Ontario and you're inSault Ste.
(21:32):
Marie, you've got all of Ontario,right?
And referral partners will startcoming out of the weeds.
I'm proving this right now.
I'm a little over two years in on
Instagram, going pretty deep onit.
And I have realtors reaching outto me monthly now going, Ryan,
love to send, love your energy.
They still think I'm brokering.
So maybe my content isn't thatgood.
I'm confusing people.
(21:53):
I guess I must be.
Because I have people sending metheir leads.
They want me to do their ownmortgage.
And I have referral partners,realtors reaching out to me,
going, oh, I'd love to referclients to you.
I love your vibe.
I love how authentic you are.
I just love the energy.
And I'd love my clients would
benefit.
Could we jump on a call?
And I'm like, yeah, man, I don'tbroker anymore.
(22:13):
But I'm proving it behind thescenes.
The same thing happens.
And I just keep talking about the
same thing.
Most of you know, I've been
consuming my content.
You have a very good idea of what
I stand for and what I do.
It's not like wishy -washy.
You kind of know.
You're like, yeah, he's building
(22:34):
the team and he runs strategy huband advanced strategies and he's
good at sales and marketing andhe's building a brand on social.
Like that's what I talk about allday long, like 60 hours a week.
That's what I do.
Very clear, right?
I'm not off there doing otherthings.
I'm not telling you we have anunderwriting hub and I'm so good
at underwriting and structuringfiles and over here.
(22:54):
And I love speaking atconferences.
You know my stance on that.
Ironically, I am speaking at an
upcoming conference.
Just funny again.
I don't shy away from it.
I just don't look for it.
So it's one of those things.
You need to like look yourself in
the mirror here at some point andget real about your business.
And I don't know what story you'retelling yourself.
I don't know who's telling you thestories, but being a generalist is
(23:16):
going to burn you.
It is going to burn you if it
hasn't already.
And the reason we started this
whole conversation because I knowgeneral top brokers who are
generalists who are now calling meand they're asking me to coach
them.
on being a specialist at something
because their books are droppingdramatically.
And the old game of renewal time,turn in the book of renewal or at
the three to four year mark forrefis, that's out the window right
now.
They've shawled their bullets.
(23:37):
It's not working.
So they're like, oh, shit, I have
to switch gears.
Should have done it earlier.
The people that said social is awaste.
I don't understand.
I don't get it.
Oh, shit.
They're two years behind the eight
ball now.
Right.
Talk to a couple of people thisweek who went all in on social in
the last three, four years and 75to 90 percent of their books
coming from their social for thefirst couple of years.
(23:59):
And then it shifts to referralbased stuff coming in.
The social media stuff drops downto 25 to 50 percent because now
you start building up a book andpeople people love, like and trust
you.
And so that's what happens.
And if you pick a niche, guesswhat happens?
You help the person that needsthat strategy.
They know other people that needthe strategy.
You're just not seeing past that.
(24:20):
You're being too selfish.
You want these perfect answers.
If I do this, I get that.
If I do reverse mortgages, Ryan, Igot to say no to all the other
stuff.
No, you don't.
You can do it.
But at some point, you're all in
on reverse.
And there's a big learning curve,
much like cash time.
There's a big learning curve.
Whereas to do refinances, be knownas the refinance expert to
increase cash flow and help youhave your mortgage faster, the
(24:42):
learning curve is a littleshorter.
The amount of time you're going towork on the deals is shorter, but
it's harder to cut through thenoise on social and you're going
to lose deals to rate.
So you have to be okay with that
until you're really, really goodat it, which takes you hundreds of
calls.
Okay, that's it, kids.
We're starting to talk in circlesand I don't want to do that
(25:04):
anymore.
You get the idea.
Brand, brand, brand.
What does your brand stand for?
I should know watching three,four, five of your reels what you
stand for.
And if it's just a mix match, a
blibbity blop, cool.
You can still change that.
But it's like, I'm not investingin your company.
And that's how we're starting tolook at things when we're looking
at who we're going to partnerwith.
It's like, we're investing ourtime.
And we are investing money too,paying people to do things.
(25:27):
It's like, what do you stand for?What are you trying to build?
How can we complement it?Right?
If you're starting from scratch,we're less likely to help.
So anyways, that's it, kids.
Enjoy the rest of your week.
Hopefully you got some from that.
I know I did just going through
this again.
That's it, kids.
Thanks for the support.
Okay, peace out.
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