May 12, 2025 • 25 mins
The Most Important Thing About Family Play
“The opposite of play isn’t work—it’s depression.” — Dr. Stuart BrownIn this episode, we explore why play isn’t just for kids—and why families who play together are more connected, creative, and resilient. Drawing from the work of Dr. Stuart Brown, founder of the National Institute for Play, we unpack how play acts as developmental glue that holds families together.
We discuss:
- What play actually is—not a strict definition, but a state of mind marked by joy, spontaneity, and freedom.
- Dr. Brown’s 7 properties of play, from its purposeless nature to its magnetic pull that makes us want to keep coming back.
- Why play matters for families: it builds emotional safety, strengthens problem-solving, and encourages adaptability.
- TMIT: The power of knowing your play personality (are you a Joker, Explorer, Artist, Director?)—and how it helps reduce resistance and invite connection throughout your family.
- How spectator play (like watching a game or show together) can offer deep intergenerational connection.
Show Notes:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Ready. Rolling.
Welcome to The Most Important Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld. And I'm Greg Neufeld.
And together, we're exploring how ambitious busy families can
build culture at home. Because after all, family is the
most important thing. Hi, Greg.
Hey, Danielle. We have come to my favorite
topic of all. Oh yeah.
(00:22):
Family play. Family play You are a playful 1.
So are you in different ways? Yes, in different ways.
I love games and moving my body and being curious, and you are
very playful with language. With language and with song,
(00:43):
with pop culture. And I can get into a good board
game so long as I'm comfortable.I find that as I am reaching my
old age, the most important thing for me is to be able to
sit comfortably. And for some reason, no one
figured out how to do that with board games.
Really. They're you're usually in some
uncomfortable contorted positionon the floor at a coffee table,
(01:06):
kneeling or like, you know, haveone leg pinned behind you while
you're trying to move a piece orget a card from somebody.
It's just not easy. Dads, can you can you get with
me on this one? Greg, you're laying the
groundwork for my next episode and experiment on family space
and what I'm going to ask of you.
So. Oh yeah.
(01:27):
All right. It involves board games, let's
put it that way. Sounds good.
OK, so family play. Life is play.
Life is play. According to Doctor Stuart
Brown, founder of the National Institute of Play, play isn't
just a fun diversion, it's developmental glue.
And within families, play fosters connection, resilience,
(01:49):
emotional regulation, and creativity across all ages.
In families, this translates to stronger bonds, better
communication, and a more joyfulhome.
So what is play? For me, play is a state of mind.
I have to tell you, I can hop into it in all sorts of
different ways, whether it's Wordle or connections on my
(02:10):
phone or putting a Slack line out front or other types of
competitive challenges that we do with our bodies to a good old
board game or puzzle. I love all of those things and
I'm sure more if I thought aboutit.
What is a slack line for those of you out there who don't know?
I don't know. How would you describe the slack
(02:30):
line? It's a line that you try to walk
on that is very difficult. It's like a tightrope.
It's like a tightrope that you can string between two objects,
like a TRX band that's really, really tight.
But it still has a lot of give and I got to tell you, I can get
like 2 steps on it. Danielle can get it all the way
across now. Not consistently though.
(02:50):
It's hard. The first time I ever saw it, I
was traveling for work in Sao Paulo and I saw these really
athletic surfer guys string up aslack line between who palm
trees and just go at it time after time after time, falling
and falling and falling, and I thought it was so cool.
Yeah, now we have 1. And now we have 1.
So cool. How about you?
(03:12):
What? What do you think of when you
think of play? Growing up, it was a lot of St.
play, whether it was baseball orbasketball or riding bikes, but
I grew up on a quiet street with, with lots of young kids.
So there was a lot of neighborhood activity.
And then we also had woods behind our houses.
So we would play in the woods, we would play manhunt and we had
(03:35):
trampolines. And so I think of outdoorsy
things for sure. That's kind of like what I grew
up with. I we had a basement full of
games too. But to tell you the truth, ping
pong is the one that I remember most fondly.
I can't think of breaking out those Monopoly type games more
than a couple times in my childhood.
Interesting. Yeah.
As a child, I played outside a lot.
(03:56):
Also. We too had woods in our
backyard. And I'm an only child, but my
dad is a play master. He is.
So we spent a lot of time running football plays and
hitting baseballs and playing every type of catch imaginable
between trackball and those things with the sticky suction.
I mean, any type of catch game he was into.
(04:17):
And then I, you know, we made-upgames a lot like me and my
friends growing up. I remember I had a canopy bed
and we used to take all the hatsin the house and put it on top
of the cabin to be and then playthe hat game where we would
count like who could knock off the most hats in 30 seconds?
One of our favorite games. I think about it to this day,
the car game, same thing. How many times can you run up
and down the driveway before another car came?
(04:39):
Lots of fun and creative things that kept us laughing and out of
boredom. I love that.
Yeah, but what about as an adult?
How do you like to play? You know, I can get tunnel
vision on most anything. And so I find that if I find
myself procrastinating with something online, it's usually
(05:04):
my form of play, which is maybe it's reading a certain type of
industry news blog or something like that, or, you know, going
deep on a sub stack or X or. But it's honestly it's so lame
when I say this out loud becausemy play is learning more about
(05:24):
business builders and entrepreneurs and I don't do
enough of the neuroplasticity development when it comes to
expanding my mind through games.I don't know about that.
Well, what I'd like to talk about today is how we can
broaden what we define as play and learn a bit more about how
each of us individually like to play and how our children do and
(05:46):
create these different play groupings, if you will, like
thinking about how to play in a loose but constructive manner.
Cool, yeah. So what is Play?
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown, who, as I mentioned, he's the founder
of the National Institute of Play and quite the guru.
(06:06):
Doctor Brown issues defining play.
I always look for a good opportunity to use that word,
stating that defining play almost defeats its purpose.
But he did give a loose framework of the contours that
distinguish it from other activities.
So as far as the things that areplay, it is apparently
purposeless, done for its own sake, not for a specific
(06:27):
outcome. It's voluntary, freely chosen,
not required. It has an inherent attraction.
It's fun and engaging and we're drawn to it.
You are free from time. You often lose track of time
while playing Diminished self consciousness.
So you're not self critical or worried about how you look while
(06:48):
you're playing. Improvisational potential.
It's flexible and often some spontaneous.
And finally, there's a continuation desire.
You want it to keep going or to come back to it.
I want to change my answer a little bit.
OK, I didn't know what the question was.
About what I think of when I think of play.
So the outdoor play, that was the collaborative, but there's
(07:11):
lots of play that I did as a kidthat just consumed hours and
hours. And interestingly, he was either
setting up or taking apart electronic equipment, trying new
software or recording my own voice.
And I'm like laughing so hard because this to me feels like
(07:34):
play. Oh, there you go.
Yeah, lots of recording, lots ofsinging, lots of just trying to
be on the radio, you know, as a kid and recording music with
friends. I just loved the idea of being
on the microphone. So don't let me take up too much
airtime. Very cool.
Very, very cool. I love hearing that and why play
(07:59):
matters for families because ultimately that's what we're
talking about, right? Couple things.
Play builds emotional safety, soit's about attachment and trust.
Families that play together are creative and adaptable.
It's a great way to stay flexible.
Play rehearses life in low stakes ways so it can bring
(08:19):
forth resilience and the family's ability to problem
solve. And finally, you want to keep
coming back. Indeed.
So these are some reasons why play matters.
Have I convinced you yet that weshould further our exploration
of play? Well, I think it was either
Thanksgiving or Christmas, the first one that we spent together
(08:40):
with your parents. And I was looking around for
your dad and he was nowhere to be found.
And I look in the TV room where at your cousin's house and he's
on the floor with all the littlekids playing.
And I was like, oh man, this is great because when we have kids,
he's going to love this. And that's not really me.
(09:03):
Yeah. So I want to learn a little bit
from that as long as I'm comfortable and engage in play.
So this is this episode is exciting for me because I, I
feel like I'm the Guinea pig here.
Totally. It's exciting for me, too,
because I think I may have stumbled upon a framework that
can be helpful in having you kind of move the ball forward or
(09:25):
integrate play. Because it's true, you are such
a loving, doting father. But playing with our kids or
playing with me, Nope, is not necessarily something that you
currently spend a lot of time doing.
Yeah. And I would guess you're not
alone. I would imagine not.
OK, so how, how do we play within our families?
(09:49):
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown identifies 8 flay personalities
to help people understand how they naturally play.
His insight is that not everyoneplays the same way, and that
recognizing your style and the style of other members in your
family can help you invite more authentic, joyful play into
family life. Cool.
Yeah. So it turns out that they have
(10:11):
identified, as I mentioned, 8 different flay personalities.
And if you're open to it, I would love to have you take the
play personality quiz live so wecan figure out your play style.
Sounds great, let's do it. OK, great.
Should I go through the different play styles?
If that is good precedent, then yes.
(10:32):
I think so. So there's the Joker, who brings
joy and laughter to any room. The Kenneth's feet where your
body leads, the fun, the explorer curiosity.
Is your playground the competitor?
Games and challenges are your jam.
The director you love shaping the play experience, the
(10:52):
collector you find delight in gathering what you love, the
artist or creator making things is your kind of play and the
storyteller. Words and imagination are where
you shine. Yeah, I grew up with a director.
My mom loved to organize the play, just loved it.
And I'd say my dad was probably on the kinesthetic side, you
(11:17):
know, let's go play tennis, let's go play basketball, let's
play baseball. He was my coach and everything.
And he showed up in athletic ways and just always wanted to
be thinking as that as a way forus to connect, OK.
Very cool. Now let's see what you are.
Yep. OK, first question, you have
(11:37):
$50.00 that you have to spend onone of the following items.
What do you get? A ridiculous hat?
A pair of binoculars, a ticket to a writing workshop or a set
of traffic cones. I think a pair of binoculars.
OK, your new podcast is most likely to be called It Started
(11:58):
with one My quest to complete mycollection the neighborhood.
Fascinating backstories I have made-up for people I don't know.
You can't make a podcast about that.
My journey in making abstract art or how to do stuff.
Weekly Instructions for doing stuff.
The neighborhood. Fascinating backstories I've
(12:19):
made-up for people I don't know.Sweet, you're already excited.
About that, I really, yeah. Stay tuned.
A couple episodes. OK, next question.
Surprise. Your home suddenly has a new
spacious bedroom. You immediately set to work
converting it into a space to organize and display your
collection. A dance studio, A decked out
(12:40):
space for your gaming PC, or an art studio.
If I have to take all those literally, then it would be a
space to organize and display your collection.
OK, I bet it had if it had said some type of electronics if.
It was like a CrossFit studio or, you know, elect, you know,
something that wasn't. Your CrossFit stuff is kind of
(13:00):
your collection. Yeah.
Cool. OK, you haven't seen your long
distance best friend in months. You pick them up at the airport
and take them straight to a place you've never been before
so you can check it out together.
Your latest eBay purchase for your collection?
Show them your latest bargain find from online classifieds or
show them a painting you've beenworking on.
(13:21):
Place I've never been before, but it is one of the best places
in the world. Oh cool.
Yeah, you're so good at that. OK, your new YouTube series
features you performing tricks you learned in your circus arts
class, discussing the nuances ofa highly specific niche
interest. Just three minutes of making
weird faces explaining how you managed to beat a video game
(13:44):
that you just came out of. Explaining how I managed to beat
a video game. OK.
Sorry that that just came out. OK, three more.
Questions. I loved that.
I loved playing games growing upon N64 and the Wii and stuff
like that. But my favorite was following
the book hacks about how to beatthose games.
Like the online guides. I forget the website but that
(14:07):
was that was my favorite. Cool, me too.
Super Mario hacks I loved. OK, you work at an elementary
school now, but at least you getto pick your position.
You're the librarian, art teacher, PE instructor,
principal, or janitor that everyone adores because you're
hilarious. Interesting.
(14:31):
I guess I'm the principal. Of course you are.
Everyone at your school or work has to join a club.
What club do you join? The fiction writing club, Improv
group trading card club, Marathon trading club?
Or I'm starting a club for the people who think they shouldn't
have to join clubs. Improv group all day.
Last question, you just parked at your favorite City Park, what
(14:53):
is next? Find some folks for a pickup
game of something. Find a new hiking trail and give
it a try. Go for a run and try to beat
your time from your last visit, or go make up backstories for
the squabbling ducks. Go for a run and try to beat my
time. What?
Is my play type. Your play type is explorer.
(15:14):
The explorer plays through learning.
They want to know and understand.
This type of play is a way of orienting to the world as a
learner. Explorer type play personalities
may enjoy leisure time spent reading non fiction, traipsing
through a forest looking for a particular bug or Fern, or
tracking tides to know exactly when to time their best
beachcombing adventure. OK.
(15:37):
How does that resonate with you?I mean I did make a tides app
for our beach so that and not a tides app but a beach flag.
App you did. So that tracks.
I think that if you abstract outthe nature part, that's very
much me, yeah. I don't think it has to be
nature to be an explorer, because I like nature, but it's
(15:57):
not where I grew up. I grew up playing on the street
or inside with my toys. Yeah, yeah, I think nature could
be substituted for technology. I also think that quizzes like
this are are fun and helpful to show maybe your dominant play
characteristics. Because I came up Explorer too.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
(16:18):
But I would say I'm probably like 60% Explorer, 20%
kinesthetic. What about the 90% competitor?
I was going to give myself like 10% anyway.
Low key competitor. Yeah, I love all of these
things. And we'll link into the show
notes, to the quiz, and then also to the little graphic that
(16:39):
they have on the way that adultsplay.
But to me it's much more of a love language kind of thing,
where maybe you have your dominant love language, but your
top three or four are all relevant too.
Because humans are complex, right?
Sure. So I don't know if you looking
at this little infographic that I have in front of you, if there
(16:59):
are any besides Explorer that resonate with you.
The storyteller I would say too,I really do like making up silly
stories and improving with the kids and just in general and.
Then what about thinking about our kids?
Maybe we can certainly ask them as well.
But. They would say I'm the joke.
(17:19):
They would say I'm the Joker. They would say you're the Joker.
That's just I know you Facetimedevery funny face today already.
Exactly. Little kids and FaceTime emojis
are just putty in my hand. Yeah.
And I think they would definitely say that I'm the
director. Right.
I do a lot of play galvanizing if you will.
(17:40):
So there's a lot here. What are we trying to advance
and take away? So I think why this matters is
that knowing your family's play personalities can reduce
resistance to play, knowing thatyou're not forcing yourself into
someone else's play style and itinvites connection.
For sure, yeah. So again, knowing your style,
(18:00):
knowing the style of the other folks in your family, you can
say I see you, I'm going to playwith you your way for now and
we're going to play my way later, you know?
Usually we're thinking about experiments that are measurable
and time bound. Is that the case here or is this
something else? I don't think so.
(18:22):
I think this is the most intentionally abstract
experiment that we could ask for.
I mean, I, like I said, the guy who is the play guru hates
defining it and says that it almost defeats its purpose.
He said that defining play is like explaining a joke.
It kind of loses it. So I keep going to this idea of
(18:45):
a playful state of mind. I've heard it, you know, and Amy
Mccready's positive parenting solution, she just talks about
it as the child state as opposedto the adult ego state.
But it's this feeling of playfulness, I think that you,
you know, when you were in it. And So what I am asking, however
(19:07):
you want to structure the experiment works for me, but is
to bring moments of playfulness to your day.
And this is really an ask of me to you.
Not just with our children. That's great.
But I think for yourself and forthe two of us together, I think
we play when we're working out. We love playing at work.
(19:29):
We love playing on this podcast.But I was scared to ask you if
you would played Settlers of Catan with me last week.
I know. So if we could just lower the
barrier to entry there, that would be great.
I think personally, selfishly, Iappreciate that.
Yeah, what's showing up here is invitations for play.
So our kids all went to and two of them still go to this amazing
(19:52):
outdoor nature pre-K program called Sunflower Creative Arts.
And throughout the playscape there are invitations for play.
Some are crafts, some are naturebased, some are adventure based,
but then they switch them up. I'm looking at them funny
because crafts that they would hate if you said that word
crafts. They're open-ended invitations,
(20:14):
right? So they'll put out a lot of
things. I meant like putting out shaving
cream and like, you know. But how you use them is up to
the personality. That's the whole point is that
they're not contrived. Yes.
And so I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for us to create
invitations for play for ourselves, not necessarily for
(20:37):
the kids, but I know that you have some plans when it comes to
space, and I believe that's going to integrate with what
we're talking about here. Easter egg for future episode.
Yep, but also Greg, what do you think the slack line is?
I know, but I mean for me, so I'm thinking you are very good
at asking for what you need withinvitations for play for
(21:00):
yourself and for the kids. Yes, Those things usually do not
appeal to me. And so I think that if I can
look for some invitations for play, which would be really nice
because it's not all on you to to come up with those.
And you and I can talk about what some of those invitations
for play that I would like to engage in both for me and our
(21:22):
kids and for you around the house.
I think that would that would feel really like the right type
of experiment. That's awesome.
I love hearing that. Yeah, I would love, and I'm
happy to help you with this, butI would love if we had some
invitations for play that appealto you around our home the way
(21:44):
that we do for me and the kids. Whether we have a slack line or
a sensory swing or balance boards or puzzles in every room,
board games around every corner,there are constant reminders to
the rest of us that life is play.
And I think we haven't necessarily tapped in to what
(22:07):
puts you in that playful state. And I would love to explore that
further with you. Yeah, no, totally.
I think there's probably some toys from growing up that I
could get down with, Lego sets that we work on as a family,
just like the puzzles that we work on as a family.
I think Legos are my version of puzzles and even some relics.
(22:30):
Like I had the huge collection of baseball cards and pogs and
all those things. I love collecting things so not
saying that we need to collect the baseball cards, but.
Collector is one of the types ofplayers, by the way.
Collector is one of the types ofplayers.
I mean, I collected Ninja Turtles, GI Joes, Legos,
baseball cards, Pogs, you name it, I was collecting them.
(22:53):
I. Didn't know that about you.
How cool. Yeah, fun.
I just love displaying them. I loved having them out.
I love looking through them. I think that we could extend
that to photo albums and scrapbooks for the family,
putting those together. That's something that I could
see being really good for us. I mean, our kids love looking
through our wedding album, right?
(23:14):
And it's really hard these days with just all the photos on the
phone. So maybe we could do some
printing and get a photo printerset up or something like that.
Just that's fun. Yeah, I love that idea.
Write that down. I mean 3D printer would be
awesome too at some point. OK, you're on a roll.
Well, you know, I just think about these things that I'm
like, I've come up with lots of exciting ideas for a someday
(23:38):
rainy day thing in my mind, and this is bringing them out.
Yeah. The time is now.
Yeah, for sure. Cool.
Wow, Greg, I love that. I love that we opened this space
for play and you jumped right in.
I think it just opening the dialogue about what it was that
I like to do really was the inspiration there.
So thanks for doing that. Absolutely.
(23:59):
Yeah, it's cool. I have one more note that is
particularly impactful for intergenerational play, and
that's spectator play. So Doctor Brown talks about some
of his fondest boyhood memories are around watching games with
his dad. And so I, I don't want to
overlook that one as well, that it's especially for
intergenerational connection, Spectator sports can be a way to
(24:25):
regularly experience mutual joy and share those experiences with
others. Yeah.
This summer we can hit some of the minor league games.
Yes. I really do like baseball games.
We took Hunter with some of our work colleagues to a baseball
game and she had absolutely no frame of reference for a
baseball game and loved it, loved it, loved it, and we all
had a great day. It was great.
(24:46):
So I think that that's also a great way to bond and share
connection. Yeah, cool.
OK, more to come I guess. Yeah, absolutely.
I look forward to reporting backon these experiments around
play. Stay tuned for next time when we
will have some exeriments to report back on.
Yes, absolutely. All right, that's it for now, ye
(25:08):
all. Right.
Love you, Goosey. Love you, goosey.
Ready. Rolling.
Welcome to The Most Important Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld. And I'm Greg Neufeld.
And together, we're exploring how ambitious busy families can
build culture at home. Because after all, family is the
most important thing. Hi, Greg.
Hey, Danielle. We have come to my favorite
topic of all. Oh yeah.
(00:22):
Family play. Family play You are a playful 1.
So are you in different ways? Yes, in different ways.
I love games and moving my body and being curious, and you are
very playful with language. With language and with song,
(00:43):
with pop culture. And I can get into a good board
game so long as I'm comfortable.I find that as I am reaching my
old age, the most important thing for me is to be able to
sit comfortably. And for some reason, no one
figured out how to do that with board games.
Really. They're you're usually in some
uncomfortable contorted positionon the floor at a coffee table,
(01:06):
kneeling or like, you know, haveone leg pinned behind you while
you're trying to move a piece orget a card from somebody.
It's just not easy. Dads, can you can you get with
me on this one? Greg, you're laying the
groundwork for my next episode and experiment on family space
and what I'm going to ask of you.
So. Oh yeah.
(01:27):
All right. It involves board games, let's
put it that way. Sounds good.
OK, so family play. Life is play.
Life is play. According to Doctor Stuart
Brown, founder of the National Institute of Play, play isn't
just a fun diversion, it's developmental glue.
And within families, play fosters connection, resilience,
(01:49):
emotional regulation, and creativity across all ages.
In families, this translates to stronger bonds, better
communication, and a more joyfulhome.
So what is play? For me, play is a state of mind.
I have to tell you, I can hop into it in all sorts of
different ways, whether it's Wordle or connections on my
(02:10):
phone or putting a Slack line out front or other types of
competitive challenges that we do with our bodies to a good old
board game or puzzle. I love all of those things and
I'm sure more if I thought aboutit.
What is a slack line for those of you out there who don't know?
I don't know. How would you describe the slack
(02:30):
line? It's a line that you try to walk
on that is very difficult. It's like a tightrope.
It's like a tightrope that you can string between two objects,
like a TRX band that's really, really tight.
But it still has a lot of give and I got to tell you, I can get
like 2 steps on it. Danielle can get it all the way
across now. Not consistently though.
(02:50):
It's hard. The first time I ever saw it, I
was traveling for work in Sao Paulo and I saw these really
athletic surfer guys string up aslack line between who palm
trees and just go at it time after time after time, falling
and falling and falling, and I thought it was so cool.
Yeah, now we have 1. And now we have 1.
So cool. How about you?
(03:12):
What? What do you think of when you
think of play? Growing up, it was a lot of St.
play, whether it was baseball orbasketball or riding bikes, but
I grew up on a quiet street with, with lots of young kids.
So there was a lot of neighborhood activity.
And then we also had woods behind our houses.
So we would play in the woods, we would play manhunt and we had
(03:35):
trampolines. And so I think of outdoorsy
things for sure. That's kind of like what I grew
up with. I we had a basement full of
games too. But to tell you the truth, ping
pong is the one that I remember most fondly.
I can't think of breaking out those Monopoly type games more
than a couple times in my childhood.
Interesting. Yeah.
As a child, I played outside a lot.
(03:56):
Also. We too had woods in our
backyard. And I'm an only child, but my
dad is a play master. He is.
So we spent a lot of time running football plays and
hitting baseballs and playing every type of catch imaginable
between trackball and those things with the sticky suction.
I mean, any type of catch game he was into.
(04:17):
And then I, you know, we made-upgames a lot like me and my
friends growing up. I remember I had a canopy bed
and we used to take all the hatsin the house and put it on top
of the cabin to be and then playthe hat game where we would
count like who could knock off the most hats in 30 seconds?
One of our favorite games. I think about it to this day,
the car game, same thing. How many times can you run up
and down the driveway before another car came?
(04:39):
Lots of fun and creative things that kept us laughing and out of
boredom. I love that.
Yeah, but what about as an adult?
How do you like to play? You know, I can get tunnel
vision on most anything. And so I find that if I find
myself procrastinating with something online, it's usually
(05:04):
my form of play, which is maybe it's reading a certain type of
industry news blog or something like that, or, you know, going
deep on a sub stack or X or. But it's honestly it's so lame
when I say this out loud becausemy play is learning more about
(05:24):
business builders and entrepreneurs and I don't do
enough of the neuroplasticity development when it comes to
expanding my mind through games.I don't know about that.
Well, what I'd like to talk about today is how we can
broaden what we define as play and learn a bit more about how
each of us individually like to play and how our children do and
(05:46):
create these different play groupings, if you will, like
thinking about how to play in a loose but constructive manner.
Cool, yeah. So what is Play?
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown, who, as I mentioned, he's the founder
of the National Institute of Play and quite the guru.
(06:06):
Doctor Brown issues defining play.
I always look for a good opportunity to use that word,
stating that defining play almost defeats its purpose.
But he did give a loose framework of the contours that
distinguish it from other activities.
So as far as the things that areplay, it is apparently
purposeless, done for its own sake, not for a specific
(06:27):
outcome. It's voluntary, freely chosen,
not required. It has an inherent attraction.
It's fun and engaging and we're drawn to it.
You are free from time. You often lose track of time
while playing Diminished self consciousness.
So you're not self critical or worried about how you look while
(06:48):
you're playing. Improvisational potential.
It's flexible and often some spontaneous.
And finally, there's a continuation desire.
You want it to keep going or to come back to it.
I want to change my answer a little bit.
OK, I didn't know what the question was.
About what I think of when I think of play.
So the outdoor play, that was the collaborative, but there's
(07:11):
lots of play that I did as a kidthat just consumed hours and
hours. And interestingly, he was either
setting up or taking apart electronic equipment, trying new
software or recording my own voice.
And I'm like laughing so hard because this to me feels like
(07:34):
play. Oh, there you go.
Yeah, lots of recording, lots ofsinging, lots of just trying to
be on the radio, you know, as a kid and recording music with
friends. I just loved the idea of being
on the microphone. So don't let me take up too much
airtime. Very cool.
Very, very cool. I love hearing that and why play
(07:59):
matters for families because ultimately that's what we're
talking about, right? Couple things.
Play builds emotional safety, soit's about attachment and trust.
Families that play together are creative and adaptable.
It's a great way to stay flexible.
Play rehearses life in low stakes ways so it can bring
(08:19):
forth resilience and the family's ability to problem
solve. And finally, you want to keep
coming back. Indeed.
So these are some reasons why play matters.
Have I convinced you yet that weshould further our exploration
of play? Well, I think it was either
Thanksgiving or Christmas, the first one that we spent together
(08:40):
with your parents. And I was looking around for
your dad and he was nowhere to be found.
And I look in the TV room where at your cousin's house and he's
on the floor with all the littlekids playing.
And I was like, oh man, this is great because when we have kids,
he's going to love this. And that's not really me.
(09:03):
Yeah. So I want to learn a little bit
from that as long as I'm comfortable and engage in play.
So this is this episode is exciting for me because I, I
feel like I'm the Guinea pig here.
Totally. It's exciting for me, too,
because I think I may have stumbled upon a framework that
can be helpful in having you kind of move the ball forward or
(09:25):
integrate play. Because it's true, you are such
a loving, doting father. But playing with our kids or
playing with me, Nope, is not necessarily something that you
currently spend a lot of time doing.
Yeah. And I would guess you're not
alone. I would imagine not.
OK, so how, how do we play within our families?
(09:49):
Well, Doctor Stuart Brown identifies 8 flay personalities
to help people understand how they naturally play.
His insight is that not everyoneplays the same way, and that
recognizing your style and the style of other members in your
family can help you invite more authentic, joyful play into
family life. Cool.
Yeah. So it turns out that they have
(10:11):
identified, as I mentioned, 8 different flay personalities.
And if you're open to it, I would love to have you take the
play personality quiz live so wecan figure out your play style.
Sounds great, let's do it. OK, great.
Should I go through the different play styles?
If that is good precedent, then yes.
(10:32):
I think so. So there's the Joker, who brings
joy and laughter to any room. The Kenneth's feet where your
body leads, the fun, the explorer curiosity.
Is your playground the competitor?
Games and challenges are your jam.
The director you love shaping the play experience, the
(10:52):
collector you find delight in gathering what you love, the
artist or creator making things is your kind of play and the
storyteller. Words and imagination are where
you shine. Yeah, I grew up with a director.
My mom loved to organize the play, just loved it.
And I'd say my dad was probably on the kinesthetic side, you
(11:17):
know, let's go play tennis, let's go play basketball, let's
play baseball. He was my coach and everything.
And he showed up in athletic ways and just always wanted to
be thinking as that as a way forus to connect, OK.
Very cool. Now let's see what you are.
Yep. OK, first question, you have
(11:37):
$50.00 that you have to spend onone of the following items.
What do you get? A ridiculous hat?
A pair of binoculars, a ticket to a writing workshop or a set
of traffic cones. I think a pair of binoculars.
OK, your new podcast is most likely to be called It Started
(11:58):
with one My quest to complete mycollection the neighborhood.
Fascinating backstories I have made-up for people I don't know.
You can't make a podcast about that.
My journey in making abstract art or how to do stuff.
Weekly Instructions for doing stuff.
The neighborhood. Fascinating backstories I've
(12:19):
made-up for people I don't know.Sweet, you're already excited.
About that, I really, yeah. Stay tuned.
A couple episodes. OK, next question.
Surprise. Your home suddenly has a new
spacious bedroom. You immediately set to work
converting it into a space to organize and display your
collection. A dance studio, A decked out
(12:40):
space for your gaming PC, or an art studio.
If I have to take all those literally, then it would be a
space to organize and display your collection.
OK, I bet it had if it had said some type of electronics if.
It was like a CrossFit studio or, you know, elect, you know,
something that wasn't. Your CrossFit stuff is kind of
(13:00):
your collection. Yeah.
Cool. OK, you haven't seen your long
distance best friend in months. You pick them up at the airport
and take them straight to a place you've never been before
so you can check it out together.
Your latest eBay purchase for your collection?
Show them your latest bargain find from online classifieds or
show them a painting you've beenworking on.
(13:21):
Place I've never been before, but it is one of the best places
in the world. Oh cool.
Yeah, you're so good at that. OK, your new YouTube series
features you performing tricks you learned in your circus arts
class, discussing the nuances ofa highly specific niche
interest. Just three minutes of making
weird faces explaining how you managed to beat a video game
(13:44):
that you just came out of. Explaining how I managed to beat
a video game. OK.
Sorry that that just came out. OK, three more.
Questions. I loved that.
I loved playing games growing upon N64 and the Wii and stuff
like that. But my favorite was following
the book hacks about how to beatthose games.
Like the online guides. I forget the website but that
(14:07):
was that was my favorite. Cool, me too.
Super Mario hacks I loved. OK, you work at an elementary
school now, but at least you getto pick your position.
You're the librarian, art teacher, PE instructor,
principal, or janitor that everyone adores because you're
hilarious. Interesting.
(14:31):
I guess I'm the principal. Of course you are.
Everyone at your school or work has to join a club.
What club do you join? The fiction writing club, Improv
group trading card club, Marathon trading club?
Or I'm starting a club for the people who think they shouldn't
have to join clubs. Improv group all day.
Last question, you just parked at your favorite City Park, what
(14:53):
is next? Find some folks for a pickup
game of something. Find a new hiking trail and give
it a try. Go for a run and try to beat
your time from your last visit, or go make up backstories for
the squabbling ducks. Go for a run and try to beat my
time. What?
Is my play type. Your play type is explorer.
(15:14):
The explorer plays through learning.
They want to know and understand.
This type of play is a way of orienting to the world as a
learner. Explorer type play personalities
may enjoy leisure time spent reading non fiction, traipsing
through a forest looking for a particular bug or Fern, or
tracking tides to know exactly when to time their best
beachcombing adventure. OK.
(15:37):
How does that resonate with you?I mean I did make a tides app
for our beach so that and not a tides app but a beach flag.
App you did. So that tracks.
I think that if you abstract outthe nature part, that's very
much me, yeah. I don't think it has to be
nature to be an explorer, because I like nature, but it's
(15:57):
not where I grew up. I grew up playing on the street
or inside with my toys. Yeah, yeah, I think nature could
be substituted for technology. I also think that quizzes like
this are are fun and helpful to show maybe your dominant play
characteristics. Because I came up Explorer too.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
(16:18):
But I would say I'm probably like 60% Explorer, 20%
kinesthetic. What about the 90% competitor?
I was going to give myself like 10% anyway.
Low key competitor. Yeah, I love all of these
things. And we'll link into the show
notes, to the quiz, and then also to the little graphic that
(16:39):
they have on the way that adultsplay.
But to me it's much more of a love language kind of thing,
where maybe you have your dominant love language, but your
top three or four are all relevant too.
Because humans are complex, right?
Sure. So I don't know if you looking
at this little infographic that I have in front of you, if there
(16:59):
are any besides Explorer that resonate with you.
The storyteller I would say too,I really do like making up silly
stories and improving with the kids and just in general and.
Then what about thinking about our kids?
Maybe we can certainly ask them as well.
But. They would say I'm the joke.
(17:19):
They would say I'm the Joker. They would say you're the Joker.
That's just I know you Facetimedevery funny face today already.
Exactly. Little kids and FaceTime emojis
are just putty in my hand. Yeah.
And I think they would definitely say that I'm the
director. Right.
I do a lot of play galvanizing if you will.
(17:40):
So there's a lot here. What are we trying to advance
and take away? So I think why this matters is
that knowing your family's play personalities can reduce
resistance to play, knowing thatyou're not forcing yourself into
someone else's play style and itinvites connection.
For sure, yeah. So again, knowing your style,
(18:00):
knowing the style of the other folks in your family, you can
say I see you, I'm going to playwith you your way for now and
we're going to play my way later, you know?
Usually we're thinking about experiments that are measurable
and time bound. Is that the case here or is this
something else? I don't think so.
(18:22):
I think this is the most intentionally abstract
experiment that we could ask for.
I mean, I, like I said, the guy who is the play guru hates
defining it and says that it almost defeats its purpose.
He said that defining play is like explaining a joke.
It kind of loses it. So I keep going to this idea of
(18:45):
a playful state of mind. I've heard it, you know, and Amy
Mccready's positive parenting solution, she just talks about
it as the child state as opposedto the adult ego state.
But it's this feeling of playfulness, I think that you,
you know, when you were in it. And So what I am asking, however
(19:07):
you want to structure the experiment works for me, but is
to bring moments of playfulness to your day.
And this is really an ask of me to you.
Not just with our children. That's great.
But I think for yourself and forthe two of us together, I think
we play when we're working out. We love playing at work.
(19:29):
We love playing on this podcast.But I was scared to ask you if
you would played Settlers of Catan with me last week.
I know. So if we could just lower the
barrier to entry there, that would be great.
I think personally, selfishly, Iappreciate that.
Yeah, what's showing up here is invitations for play.
So our kids all went to and two of them still go to this amazing
(19:52):
outdoor nature pre-K program called Sunflower Creative Arts.
And throughout the playscape there are invitations for play.
Some are crafts, some are naturebased, some are adventure based,
but then they switch them up. I'm looking at them funny
because crafts that they would hate if you said that word
crafts. They're open-ended invitations,
(20:14):
right? So they'll put out a lot of
things. I meant like putting out shaving
cream and like, you know. But how you use them is up to
the personality. That's the whole point is that
they're not contrived. Yes.
And so I'm wondering if there's an opportunity for us to create
invitations for play for ourselves, not necessarily for
(20:37):
the kids, but I know that you have some plans when it comes to
space, and I believe that's going to integrate with what
we're talking about here. Easter egg for future episode.
Yep, but also Greg, what do you think the slack line is?
I know, but I mean for me, so I'm thinking you are very good
at asking for what you need withinvitations for play for
(21:00):
yourself and for the kids. Yes, Those things usually do not
appeal to me. And so I think that if I can
look for some invitations for play, which would be really nice
because it's not all on you to to come up with those.
And you and I can talk about what some of those invitations
for play that I would like to engage in both for me and our
(21:22):
kids and for you around the house.
I think that would that would feel really like the right type
of experiment. That's awesome.
I love hearing that. Yeah, I would love, and I'm
happy to help you with this, butI would love if we had some
invitations for play that appealto you around our home the way
(21:44):
that we do for me and the kids. Whether we have a slack line or
a sensory swing or balance boards or puzzles in every room,
board games around every corner,there are constant reminders to
the rest of us that life is play.
And I think we haven't necessarily tapped in to what
(22:07):
puts you in that playful state. And I would love to explore that
further with you. Yeah, no, totally.
I think there's probably some toys from growing up that I
could get down with, Lego sets that we work on as a family,
just like the puzzles that we work on as a family.
I think Legos are my version of puzzles and even some relics.
(22:30):
Like I had the huge collection of baseball cards and pogs and
all those things. I love collecting things so not
saying that we need to collect the baseball cards, but.
Collector is one of the types ofplayers, by the way.
Collector is one of the types ofplayers.
I mean, I collected Ninja Turtles, GI Joes, Legos,
baseball cards, Pogs, you name it, I was collecting them.
(22:53):
I. Didn't know that about you.
How cool. Yeah, fun.
I just love displaying them. I loved having them out.
I love looking through them. I think that we could extend
that to photo albums and scrapbooks for the family,
putting those together. That's something that I could
see being really good for us. I mean, our kids love looking
through our wedding album, right?
(23:14):
And it's really hard these days with just all the photos on the
phone. So maybe we could do some
printing and get a photo printerset up or something like that.
Just that's fun. Yeah, I love that idea.
Write that down. I mean 3D printer would be
awesome too at some point. OK, you're on a roll.
Well, you know, I just think about these things that I'm
like, I've come up with lots of exciting ideas for a someday
(23:38):
rainy day thing in my mind, and this is bringing them out.
Yeah. The time is now.
Yeah, for sure. Cool.
Wow, Greg, I love that. I love that we opened this space
for play and you jumped right in.
I think it just opening the dialogue about what it was that
I like to do really was the inspiration there.
So thanks for doing that. Absolutely.
(23:59):
Yeah, it's cool. I have one more note that is
particularly impactful for intergenerational play, and
that's spectator play. So Doctor Brown talks about some
of his fondest boyhood memories are around watching games with
his dad. And so I, I don't want to
overlook that one as well, that it's especially for
intergenerational connection, Spectator sports can be a way to
(24:25):
regularly experience mutual joy and share those experiences with
others. Yeah.
This summer we can hit some of the minor league games.
Yes. I really do like baseball games.
We took Hunter with some of our work colleagues to a baseball
game and she had absolutely no frame of reference for a
baseball game and loved it, loved it, loved it, and we all
had a great day. It was great.
(24:46):
So I think that that's also a great way to bond and share
connection. Yeah, cool.
OK, more to come I guess. Yeah, absolutely.
I look forward to reporting backon these experiments around
play. Stay tuned for next time when we
will have some exeriments to report back on.
Yes, absolutely. All right, that's it for now, ye
(25:08):
all. Right.
Love you, Goosey. Love you, goosey.
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