June 16, 2025 • 30 mins
🎧 Episode 14: Boundaries
This week, we’re talking about boundaries—inside our home and outside of it.
The kind that protect our family culture… and the kind that make everyone just a little bit uncomfortable (in the best way).
From Brené Brown’s Wholehearted Parenting Manifesto:
“We will set and respect boundaries. We will honor hard work, hope, and perseverance. Rest and play will be family values, as well as family practices.”
We start with the boundaries that live inside our home—around sleep, late-night conversations, and shared spaces (including one now-infamous, sticker-covered kitchen chair). We talk about the practices that feel solid, the ones we’re still fumbling through, and how family meetings help us navigate the thorny stuff with more intention and less drama.
Then we zoom out to boundaries with the outside world—where things tend to get trickier.
We explore:
- Saying no without over-explaining
- Navigating extended family dynamics
- The tension between being kind and being clear
- Why some boundaries feel easy to hold, and others feel like heartbreak
- What it means to protect the emotional climate of your home
Plus: Why “Spending Saturdays” might be our favorite new family tool
🧡 Try This at HomeBefore setting a boundary, ask yourself:
- How is this aligned with my values—not just my mood or my fear?
- Does this need to be said… by me… right now?
We’re still learning, too.
If you’ve got a family boundary that’s working—or one that’s still in the chaos phase—we’d love to hear about it. Message us on IG @themostimpthing.
And don’t forget to check out TMIT 01: Family Meetings if you haven’t yet—because family meetings > family meltdowns.
📌 Featured Quotes from the Episode“Boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously.” – Prentis Hemphill“You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm.” – Nedra Glover TawwabMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I love your, like, Weston. Jesse.
Look, Yeah. Yeah.
I haven't been watching enough Bravo lately.
I know. Yeah.
Welcome to The Most Important Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld. And I'm Greg Neufeld, and
together we're exploring how ambitious busy families can
build culture at home. Because after all, family is the
most important thing. Hey, Dee.
(00:20):
Hi, Greg. Welcome back to #5.
Yeah, the 5th in our Wholehearted Parenting series.
The Most Important thing Episode14 on boundaries.
Boundaries. It's like I should go Dun Dun
Dun. Really.
Yeah, I love it. OK, great.
Yeah. I'm like boundaries, yay.
And I'm like boundaries. Those have not gone well for me
(00:42):
in the past. I think I need a rewrite.
Yeah. So let's talk about boundaries.
Yeah, let's. From the Wholehearted Parenting
Manifesto, Brene says. We will set and respect
boundaries. We will honor hard work, hope
and perseverance. Rest and play will be family
values as well as family practices.
I love all of that. I think that it's worth framing
(01:02):
our conversation in two parts, the first being boundaries that
we hold within our home, within our nuclear family, and then
boundaries that our family holdsor you and I individually hold
with the outside world. Right.
Yeah, those are pretty important, but very different
mindsets, are they? I think so within our within our
(01:25):
home, I think we are in a lot more control within our home,
there's less volatility. OK.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.I think within our home we have
a common language, Yes, and consistent practices around
mutual respect and accountability and the way we
repair after rupture, for example.
(01:45):
That's right. That may not be the way that
folks outside of our home tend to operate.
Yeah. And I think that within our
home, that allows us to have more flexibility.
I don't love the word flexibility because I don't
think that setting boundaries means you're inflexible.
No, not at all. I The evolution of boundaries is
a unifying principle at home because we can decide on those
(02:08):
together, whereas other people'sboundaries and our boundaries
may come into conflict and we have to decide what we want to
do at those conflict points. Sure.
I mean, we can decide as a family, but I do think that the
boundaries that we hold within our home individually aren't
necessarily decided together. Like I'm thinking of the fact
that we do not let the kids sleep in our bed.
(02:30):
That was a decision that you andI made, really you made.
And I seconded that the kids would probably prefer not to be
our boundary, right. But we are steadfast in that and
choose to instead spend time in their, in their rooms overnight
if, if there's something that they need, because that is, you
know, Brene talks a lot about how boundaries are what enable
(02:51):
me to have compassion and that when I feel safe and that my
space is protected, then I am able to practice loving kindness
towards another person. And a great representation of
that is to how much we both honor and value sleep.
And so for us, it is really important that we keep our bed
(03:13):
just to the two of us, not even Winston is allowed on our bed
right overnight. But that's that's something that
you and I decided based on our values as opposed to and it and
it's something that the kids have have come to respect.
But I don't think that if we hada family meeting about whether
or not the children should be allowed to sleep in our bed, I
think we would be outvoted on Cosleeping.
(03:34):
I bring this up as an example, not because I think that no one
should go sleep, but because I wish I felt as resolved about
other boundaries in my life as Ido about this one.
Yes. So this is an example of within
our home where I think we are doing well.
Yeah. Another one that I've been
thinking about is our boundary with one another around not
(03:56):
having difficult conversations when the sun is down.
So we don't talk about work or money or any other sticky topic
unless the sun is up. That's right.
And I think that's been really helpful because late night
conversations about difficult topics never seem to go well.
No, and it's worked really well for us.
(04:17):
Yeah, well, it's, it's recognizing that our minds, that
our brains need, need rest and that are not, they're not
necessarily working as clearly at night.
Yeah. So let's talk about where we
aren't doing so well on boundaries.
OK, This morning's debacle comesto mind, particularly in this
triangle of you, me and Hunter. Where?
(04:40):
Yeah. And so let me, if I can just
frame for the audience. So yesterday, without us
knowing, while we were upstairs working, Hunter and her little
brother and sister, Jaden Maverick, decided that they were
going to decorate their kitchen chairs with all sorts of
stickers, sticky gem stickers and regular stickers and really
defiling what would be the rightword, really not making them
(05:04):
look aesthetically pleasing, butalso just really junky.
And it's something that they knew that daddy wouldn't like.
And this, let me just say that this really gets to boundaries
within the home and how we all kind of ping pong off of each
other. Because when it comes to our
shared space, you may hold strong more strongly the value
(05:25):
of keeping things very nice and clean than I do or than the kids
do. And so we have to figure out how
to make sure that you feel safe and heard and seen.
So. This is 2 separate boundaries,
and I think boundaries representvalues, right?
And my value sure is keeping ourthings looking nice.
(05:48):
But I'm always open to a conversation about how maybe I
could be more flexible, in particular with things that
they're using that they want to decorate.
Sure, I'm open to those conversations.
However, the boundary that I'm not OK with is represents the
value about telling the truth and about doing the right thing.
(06:08):
And what Hunter did was she toldour nanny that we particularly
that you said it was OK. Which I did not.
We did not have any conversationabout this.
Exactly. And so I felt violated from that
perspective, one, and then two, seeing the total mess that was
made there, and then three, thatI knew that now Denny's going to
(06:31):
have to clean up this mess that shouldn't have been there in the
1st place. So we're paying for somebody to
clean up the mess that shouldn'thave been there in the 1st place
without a conversation about could that have been decorated
in a nice way? Could we, you know, maybe, maybe
painted the chair so that they actually look respectable and
not like all junked up? Yeah, it's a lot, and there's a
(06:53):
there's a lot going on there. I think it put Danny in a weird
position, Danny or Nanny in a weird position.
What comes up for me when you talk about what happened as far
as Hunter not asking and and nottelling the truth about that?
I said it was OK to put stickerson her, on her chair in the
kitchen. A couple things.
(07:13):
One, Hunter does almost everything, at least outside of
this home, to the letter of the law.
And so one thing that I've been working on in my own life that
I've been kind of running a parallel process with Hunter
because I see it with her, is this idea of bending the rules.
And when there are opportunity, when there are rules that you
(07:34):
can bend, like the speed limit, she always asks us what the
speed limit is, right? And we have to explain to her
that like everybody pretty much goes 10 miles over the speed
limit. Like that's not really breaking
the rule, right? And so I see even though she
lied to Denny, which I think is is definitely not OK, I guess I
saw it as one of these rule bending things and an act of
(07:55):
self-expression and staking her claim in our home, which is
another theme that you know, andall of you that are listening
also know that I keep going backto this, you know, family as a
democracy and everyone having a voice.
So I want to encourage her bending the rules.
I want to encourage herself expression.
And so I have definitely feel inconflict and I'm trying to
(08:16):
figure out where is the through line here that will feel right
or at least as a compromise to each member of our family.
Because as I said this morning, I feel like I'm the giant pole
in the center of the circus, like this tent pole.
I don't feel like I have a view on this one.
And there's just like chaos going all around.
Like you're triggered, Hunters triggered.
(08:36):
Danny doesn't know what to do. Jade and Maverick just start
cleaning up because they kind ofknew that daddy wouldn't like it
anyway. And so they but they didn't want
Hunter to be the only one with abeautiful chair.
So everybody's kind of got theirown feelings on the subject.
And I think that this is a greattopic for family meeting, but
also so relevant to our conversation about boundaries
because whose boundary wins? Right.
(09:00):
Who that's a great point. You know, like you have these,
you have these really strong feelings that you just outlined
and across these three differentthree different ways that Hunter
was in conflict with how you want things to operate in.
Our home, if you count the stickers.
Stickers are like the most offensive thing.
Possible. Dads out there know what I'm
(09:21):
talking about. So this is where I really
struggle with boundaries on likewhat are Greg's preferences and
triggers versus boundaries that he has a right to uphold?
Right, yeah, I'm still feeling this out too.
But I it's like pornography. I know it when I see it.
OK, I'm glad that that's where that went once you said that
word. OK, so I don't know that we have
(09:42):
an answer here, but this is really something that I think
consistently comes up in our home.
Today it came up about self-expression and stickers in
the kitchen. It's just a lot to live.
And especially as our kids get older and they still start to
have more of their own opinions and want to take up more space
in our home, which is something,as you know, we are encouraging
trying to figure out. How are we making this a
(10:04):
democracy where everyone's voiceis heard?
But we do, you know, hopefully better than our Congress, not
end up with a giant mishmash, but something that actually is
consistent and makes sense to live in alignment with our
values. Feel very good that with the
structures that we're putting inplace, we can come to terms in
some form of family meeting, family stories, trying to
(10:24):
understand everyone's perspective.
And this is a great example for us to talk through because I do
want there to be an outlet for self-expression and I need to
hold the line when it comes to putting stickers on furniture.
I just have to. Understood.
So as far as what can we commit to working on then I think
having this discussion at familymeeting.
Well, and and also letting Hunter know, hey, like, let's
(10:47):
let's have this conversation. You know, what I really don't
like is you trying to go around us because you know where that's
going to end up. Well, can we take some
accountability and ownership there and say, you know what?
She probably knew from past experience that daddy would just
say no, right? And that mommy would be a in
quote UN quote easygoing pushover.
But. It's a great topic for family
meeting. It's a great topic for.
(11:08):
Family meeting. We've got a family meeting wall,
topic wall right there for for her to write on.
You know I want to decorate my chair.
OK, understood. Well, I do think that you should
give her that feedback then did a different way to go about this
because right now it kind of feels like there's she has this
desire for self-expression or she has this creative idea and
we're stunting that outlet as opposed to sharing with her and
(11:30):
even maybe Co creating with her how this could have gone
differently. Yeah, I get it.
Look, she's also right now she'sthe leader of the of the three
of them. And when we're working and she
comes up with some ideas, she wants to lead and get carried
away with it. It makes total sense to me.
Yeah, Y'all, this is such a weird week because school's out,
but camp hasn't started yet, so everybody's kind of all over the
(11:52):
place. We're working.
They don't have as much structure as they're used to.
So this is just a tough week, but it's an opportunity I think
to really get clear and set intentions for the summer as
well. Agreed.
Cool. Let's frame the episode a little
bit here for a moment. So we're talking about
boundaries. We're, we're talking about those
within the home right now and how we can use some of the tools
(12:16):
that we have, like family meetings to better express what
those boundaries are and the values that they represent.
I think what you did last week around spending was a tremendous
way of showing a boundary. So Jade lost her first tooth.
And with the loss of her first tooth, she got $5 from the tooth
fairy. And Hunter immediately said,
let's go to the dollar store. So Jade can spend her $5.
(12:38):
Yeah. And so.
Yeah, I freaked out a little bitand I was like, wait, family
money episode #8 what is our process?
And so I thought about living inalignment with our values and
how to normalize money talk. And so yes, me and GPT came
together to come up with a little spending guide around
what can you do? Like first of all, Congrats, you
(12:58):
got $5. What can you do with it?
What can $5 do for you? And of course, we talked about
you can save it, you can spend it, you can share it, or you can
wait until. And it had this great idea of
what it, it called spending Saturdays.
And so like once a month on a Saturday or Sunday, the family
can buy with their money, our family can buy with our money,
(13:21):
something that we've been looking for, something that
we've been wanting, something that's on our wish list.
And so that creates the container.
I love a good container and thatcreates the container for the
things like a dinosaur puzzle ora sun catcher or a Unicorn lamp
that they've been talking about for months.
And rather than immediately upongetting money from the tooth
fairy running to a store to justbuy something, we can schedule a
(13:45):
time to use money if we want to.I think that's so cool.
It's like organizational behavior.
They're like we're teaching themthat we can come together to
decide the best use of funds andthat it doesn't just need to be
spending for one person. It could be for everybody, but
we decide what that money goes to towards together and that
(14:06):
once a month we do that so that you can build up this list over
the month and figure out what isthe highest order thing that you
want to take care of. Yeah, Thanks, GPT, because I
think that was a really good idea.
So cool. I mean, it reminds me of our
quarterly budgeting meetings, right, where you and I, we don't
necessarily talk too much about big budget items or capital
expenditures over the course of 1/4.
But once 1/4, when we assess what we've, what we've brought
(14:29):
in and where things are going, how investments are doing, then
we can also talk about any big budget items that we want to
spend money on. That's right.
Yeah. I love this.
They're learning. Such great.
I wouldn't say it's boundaries here, but this is a a big value
that's going to create the deliberate boundaries in the
home around spending money and when we do and how we do it.
(14:49):
Yeah. Well, another boundary is, no, I
am not taking you to the dollar store on Sunday morning with my
time because you got $5. That's my boundary.
That's a great boundary. The last thing I want to say is
about how grateful I am for the family meetings because one of
the things that I read about that I'm finding so true is this
idea that when you have a familymeeting, you've automatically
(15:13):
made space for these thorny issues that come up.
And so this is 2 weeks in a row where complex multivariate
issues have come up, where different people have different
opinions on things. Last week being commercial
characters and this week being self-expression with stickers on
our kitchen chairs that I'm so excited to have the time and
(15:35):
space allocated so that I don't have to worry about it in the
middle of my work day on Tuesday.
I know that we as a family are going to get off the whiteboard.
We're going to write down everybody's thoughts and
opinions and we are going to come.
We are going to collaborate on an outcome that may not feel
awesome to everyone, but where? What do you like to say that a
(15:56):
great outcome is 1 Where all sides feel uncomfortable?
Negotiation. Is great, yeah.
So to come up with a great negotiation where all sides feel
a little bit uncomfortable. That's right.
But it's clear. And by the way, we can iterate
on that, right? But at least we have something
that we've all formulated together and we can set forth
intentionally. Yeah, it feels really good.
It does. You know, a friend said to me
(16:20):
after listening. Family stories, family meals,
love it. I love it.
I'm putting those into practice.Family meetings feel a little
too formal. I think that what I'm noticing
with our family meetings is thatHunter, who's 7, is a very
active and engaged participant. Jade, sometimes Maverick just
(16:43):
for the snack in the game, but that's OK.
We're modeling the behavior for Maverick.
Jade is easing into participation, and Hunter is
there basically in the tribunal with the two of us making
decisions at age 7. And it's not more than 20
minutes. So to be able to get these
things out of the way and set upthe week for success in 20
(17:04):
minutes, I think is really worthputting that structure around.
So I'd encourage us to keep going here and I am committed to
to continuing here. But anyone that feels a little
bit like sheepish about jumping in, just make it 1 quick
question to solve for one quick problem and have a snack.
That's it. Yeah, because I can almost
(17:24):
guarantee that a problem will come up during the week that you
don't feel like dealing with exactly.
Maybe when you're all together you can allocate 20 minutes on
the weekend. That's right.
Just an idea. OK, great.
So we've spoken a bit about boundaries within our family.
Yep. Now let's talk about now.
I got to lean back for this. One Now let's talk about
(17:46):
boundaries with other adults in our lives and how we as a family
navigate boundaries with other individuals and the external
world. Right, so where do you want to
start here? Well, I'd, I'd like to stick to
our three questions. So where do you think, where do
you think we're doing well? With the outside world, with
(18:09):
anything that touches acquaintances, schools,
business, we do really well. I think just to put a finer
point on that, I'd say anywhere that we have been asked to
commit our time outside of our family, whether that's birthday
parties or extracurriculars or school commitments.
(18:30):
That is a place where I feel like we have been living within
our values, which is listening for the quiet nose and politely
saying no thank you if they are there, not over committing
ourselves and really focusing ontime with our nuclear family.
That's right. I agree.
That's where we're doing well. Where are we not doing so well?
(18:53):
Where compassion creeps in. That's how I would define it.
Say more. If I hold a boundary and I let
that boundary go, or I just let it be a little bit more flexible
because of someone I love, I usually regret it.
I almost always regret it, yeah.And I think that it's the same
(19:18):
as with our kids. Naming something that doesn't
work for you and the value that it represents is an extremely
important skill in life because boundaries, telling somebody no
and not naming why and not naming what that means for you,
that's a failure because you're not communicating anything.
(19:39):
You're just putting up a brick wall.
If you can communicate that you have a value and that this
boundary is set there because ofthat value, because it protects
that value, someone can disagreewith that value, and that's OK.
But at least you've named what that value is.
And so I try to name that value these days.
But what I've noticed is that ifmy value is #7 out of my most
(20:03):
important values and my boundaryof #7 conflicts with somebody's
number one, they will not hear me.
They will not hear me because they will say, oh, you're being
too rigid. Because I care about being the
matriarch of this family. And I'm the most important
person in this family because that's how I was raised, because
(20:24):
I respected my mother and she was the most important person.
And doesn't matter what you say about no sweets or don't give my
kids cookies or whatever, I willdo what I want because I'm the
matriarch and that is my value. And I don't know what to do in
those situations other than say,OK, I see you.
That is no longer welcome in my home.
(20:44):
And I don't know how to do any better than.
Yeah, that's where you are today.
That's where I am today. Yeah, I got that.
I struggle with this idea of telling people your boundaries.
You know, Brené Brown says clearis kind unclear is unkind, which
is like her version of make the implicit explicit.
And I think this also reminds meof Mel Robbins when she has this
(21:04):
whole let them theory, right? Just just let them.
Let them you can name your boundary, but then let them.
I was talking to a friend the other day and she said, you
know, Danielle, it's hard because the people who need the
most boundaries are those that are least receptive to hearing
them. And that really hit me because
when I have tried to set boundaries with people in my
(21:27):
life that I feel are not supporting my growth, and maybe
I'm not supporting their growth either, I've tended to do it in
a way that is, well, explicit, right?
And thoughtful, but explicit. And it has never been received
well, which has made me gun shy to set boundaries and has made
(21:50):
me kind of want to be haphazard and disorganized with them.
There's this poet, their name isElope, And they say how naive
was I to believe that if you just found the right words and
put them in the appropriate order, it would necessarily lead
to understanding. And that's kind of been my
struggle with boundaries as an adult.
(22:13):
The people that I want to set boundaries with cannot hear me.
They cannot see me. Hence why I need the boundary to
begin with. And so a lot of my work today is
in trying to set those boundaries quietly and doing
them for me without having to explain myself.
(22:36):
Because I know this much that explaining myself only makes
things worse. I get questioned, I get gas lit,
I get told that I am controllingand too rigid.
Yeah, it's it's this. I guess the irony for me is that
I try to set a boundary in orderto be seen.
(22:59):
And if I have to set a boundary with you, it's because you
haven't seen me. That's right.
This must be a common scenario in parenting.
It has to be because there are so many sitcoms about this where
there's the mother-in-law or themother who just does not hear or
(23:21):
see the children. And it's probably worth double
clicking on because we've heard it from a couple of our friends
where they have one grandparent that is extremely doting and
playful and respectful of the parents wishes and another
(23:42):
grandparent who is my way or thehighway.
And how do you deal with that, especially if those two
grandparents are husband and wife?
Yeah, if anybody has the answers, please let us know.
Yeah, what we've found is you have to treat them very
(24:03):
separately and let one in and keep the other away.
If that's what the doting grandparent wants, right, Right.
Because they are a team. And I really respect the
institution of marriage, especially those that have been
married long enough to be grandparents, right?
And so we need to make sure thatwe maintain respect for the
(24:25):
choices that the grandparents inour lives have made as well.
Yeah, but it doesn't mean we need to bend over backwards to
accommodate, no. Absolutely.
There's this great quote from Nedra Glover, TWAB, where she
says you are not required to setyourself on fire to keep other
people warm. So.
True. I love that.
And you know, I think about thatnot Even so much with the toxic
(24:48):
external people in my life, but in the ways that I've tried to
bend over backwards for the doting side.
Does that make any sense? The ways that I've tried to bend
over backwards to accommodate the grandparent that really is
warm and go with the flow and understands our values and where
(25:11):
I am right now when it comes to boundaries, is that, well, I
don't know where I am. I'm still figuring it out.
It's a day at a time right now. I know though, that as my
children get older, as our children get older, they are
more aware of toxic behavior because it is so unusual in our
(25:32):
home. And when it shows up here and it
causes ripples in the way that you and I behave, in the way
that the children behave, it's not acceptable.
And it makes me realize that even if I have been doing my
best to justify toxic behavior, because I think, oh, I can
(25:52):
handle it. I've got my, I've got myself
compassion and self kindness practices, right?
If I can, you know, I can handleit.
And this is just the way it is. There's something that happens
when I look at our children and I say, you know what?
I don't want them to have to handle it.
I don't want them to have to come up with their tool kit for
(26:12):
dealing with toxic people in ourhome.
This is not the place for that type of behavior.
This is your base camp. This is your safe space and you
do not deserve to have toxicity here.
God bless them. In our experience, our kids have
shown up before. We've had to say anything saying
(26:36):
I don't want that here. So true.
That's really weird, right? It's so weird.
Talk about the intergenerationalself.
In all honesty, watching the waythat our daughter stands up for
herself with her grandparents isshocking and beautiful.
Yeah, shocking and beautiful. Well put.
(26:57):
OK. So we talked about things that
we're doing well or talk about things where I don't want to say
we're not doing well, but we really just.
We're we're just learning. We're in the learning.
Space. We're figuring it out.
And what I'd like to commit to is just to keep a pulse on our
children and the way that they see the world as I navigate, as
(27:18):
we navigate how to set boundaries outside of our
family. Most definitely.
I'm not going to. I'm not saying that I'm going to
let them lead us, but I am recognizing in myself that there
still is this kind of inner turmoil that creates a fog, if
you will. And so I really value their
inputs and your input in how we navigate relationships outside
(27:42):
of outside of our immediate family.
It's. Part of why I love the summer,
the kids are shaking off the energy of their peers, whether
that's a good thing or a bad thing.
You know, they've got positive influences and negative
influences as we all do in our peer set, but they're shaking it
all off. And you can really see what's
stuck a couple days in a couple weeks in a month or two in to
(28:04):
having no school. So I'm excited to see how our
kids show up this summer and as we prepare for a couple weeks of
travel, Just the nuclear family,that should be pretty special.
Yeah, summer is a great reset. The space, it's beautiful.
OK, so boundaries, we definitelydon't have this all figured out.
(28:26):
No way. We are bumbling through it, but
we are trying to do it with someintentionality.
Yeah. And call to action is what do
you do in terms of boundaries athome for, for your kids, with
your kids, for helping your kidsset boundaries with their
friends, for setting boundaries between your nuclear family and
(28:46):
your extended family. These are all things that we'd
love to hear about. Yeah.
How are you modeling boundaries with people in your life for
your children? It wasn't modeled great for me,
and so I would love to hear how others are doing it.
All right, so to recap, the mostimportant thing about
boundaries, The point of a boundary isn't to push people
away, it's to make it safe enough to stay connected.
(29:09):
There's a pretty famous quote atthis point by Prentice Hemphill
who says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you
and me simultaneously. And sometimes with my children
that distance is centimeters andsometimes it is states.
States. So I think both are important
and just knowing, knowing where we're at can be really
(29:33):
clarifying. Absolutely.
OK, more to be revealed on this one.
Leave it here for now. More to be revealed.
Love you, goosey love. You goosey.
Hey guys, if you're still here, you're definitely our kind of
person. Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important Thing.
If this episode resonated with you, we'd love for you to follow
(29:54):
us wherever you get your podcasts and share it with
someone else. Building family culture on
purpose.
I love your, like, Weston. Jesse.
Look, Yeah. Yeah.
I haven't been watching enough Bravo lately.
I know. Yeah.
Welcome to The Most Important Thing.
I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld. And I'm Greg Neufeld, and
together we're exploring how ambitious busy families can
build culture at home. Because after all, family is the
most important thing. Hey, Dee.
(00:20):
Hi, Greg. Welcome back to #5.
Yeah, the 5th in our Wholehearted Parenting series.
The Most Important thing Episode14 on boundaries.
Boundaries. It's like I should go Dun Dun
Dun. Really.
Yeah, I love it. OK, great.
Yeah. I'm like boundaries, yay.
And I'm like boundaries. Those have not gone well for me
(00:42):
in the past. I think I need a rewrite.
Yeah. So let's talk about boundaries.
Yeah, let's. From the Wholehearted Parenting
Manifesto, Brene says. We will set and respect
boundaries. We will honor hard work, hope
and perseverance. Rest and play will be family
values as well as family practices.
I love all of that. I think that it's worth framing
(01:02):
our conversation in two parts, the first being boundaries that
we hold within our home, within our nuclear family, and then
boundaries that our family holdsor you and I individually hold
with the outside world. Right.
Yeah, those are pretty important, but very different
mindsets, are they? I think so within our within our
(01:25):
home, I think we are in a lot more control within our home,
there's less volatility. OK.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.I think within our home we have
a common language, Yes, and consistent practices around
mutual respect and accountability and the way we
repair after rupture, for example.
(01:45):
That's right. That may not be the way that
folks outside of our home tend to operate.
Yeah. And I think that within our
home, that allows us to have more flexibility.
I don't love the word flexibility because I don't
think that setting boundaries means you're inflexible.
No, not at all. I The evolution of boundaries is
a unifying principle at home because we can decide on those
(02:08):
together, whereas other people'sboundaries and our boundaries
may come into conflict and we have to decide what we want to
do at those conflict points. Sure.
I mean, we can decide as a family, but I do think that the
boundaries that we hold within our home individually aren't
necessarily decided together. Like I'm thinking of the fact
that we do not let the kids sleep in our bed.
(02:30):
That was a decision that you andI made, really you made.
And I seconded that the kids would probably prefer not to be
our boundary, right. But we are steadfast in that and
choose to instead spend time in their, in their rooms overnight
if, if there's something that they need, because that is, you
know, Brene talks a lot about how boundaries are what enable
(02:51):
me to have compassion and that when I feel safe and that my
space is protected, then I am able to practice loving kindness
towards another person. And a great representation of
that is to how much we both honor and value sleep.
And so for us, it is really important that we keep our bed
(03:13):
just to the two of us, not even Winston is allowed on our bed
right overnight. But that's that's something that
you and I decided based on our values as opposed to and it and
it's something that the kids have have come to respect.
But I don't think that if we hada family meeting about whether
or not the children should be allowed to sleep in our bed, I
think we would be outvoted on Cosleeping.
(03:34):
I bring this up as an example, not because I think that no one
should go sleep, but because I wish I felt as resolved about
other boundaries in my life as Ido about this one.
Yes. So this is an example of within
our home where I think we are doing well.
Yeah. Another one that I've been
thinking about is our boundary with one another around not
(03:56):
having difficult conversations when the sun is down.
So we don't talk about work or money or any other sticky topic
unless the sun is up. That's right.
And I think that's been really helpful because late night
conversations about difficult topics never seem to go well.
No, and it's worked really well for us.
(04:17):
Yeah, well, it's, it's recognizing that our minds, that
our brains need, need rest and that are not, they're not
necessarily working as clearly at night.
Yeah. So let's talk about where we
aren't doing so well on boundaries.
OK, This morning's debacle comesto mind, particularly in this
triangle of you, me and Hunter. Where?
(04:40):
Yeah. And so let me, if I can just
frame for the audience. So yesterday, without us
knowing, while we were upstairs working, Hunter and her little
brother and sister, Jaden Maverick, decided that they were
going to decorate their kitchen chairs with all sorts of
stickers, sticky gem stickers and regular stickers and really
defiling what would be the rightword, really not making them
(05:04):
look aesthetically pleasing, butalso just really junky.
And it's something that they knew that daddy wouldn't like.
And this, let me just say that this really gets to boundaries
within the home and how we all kind of ping pong off of each
other. Because when it comes to our
shared space, you may hold strong more strongly the value
(05:25):
of keeping things very nice and clean than I do or than the kids
do. And so we have to figure out how
to make sure that you feel safe and heard and seen.
So. This is 2 separate boundaries,
and I think boundaries representvalues, right?
And my value sure is keeping ourthings looking nice.
(05:48):
But I'm always open to a conversation about how maybe I
could be more flexible, in particular with things that
they're using that they want to decorate.
Sure, I'm open to those conversations.
However, the boundary that I'm not OK with is represents the
value about telling the truth and about doing the right thing.
(06:08):
And what Hunter did was she toldour nanny that we particularly
that you said it was OK. Which I did not.
We did not have any conversationabout this.
Exactly. And so I felt violated from that
perspective, one, and then two, seeing the total mess that was
made there, and then three, thatI knew that now Denny's going to
(06:31):
have to clean up this mess that shouldn't have been there in the
1st place. So we're paying for somebody to
clean up the mess that shouldn'thave been there in the 1st place
without a conversation about could that have been decorated
in a nice way? Could we, you know, maybe, maybe
painted the chair so that they actually look respectable and
not like all junked up? Yeah, it's a lot, and there's a
(06:53):
there's a lot going on there. I think it put Danny in a weird
position, Danny or Nanny in a weird position.
What comes up for me when you talk about what happened as far
as Hunter not asking and and nottelling the truth about that?
I said it was OK to put stickerson her, on her chair in the
kitchen. A couple things.
(07:13):
One, Hunter does almost everything, at least outside of
this home, to the letter of the law.
And so one thing that I've been working on in my own life that
I've been kind of running a parallel process with Hunter
because I see it with her, is this idea of bending the rules.
And when there are opportunity, when there are rules that you
(07:34):
can bend, like the speed limit, she always asks us what the
speed limit is, right? And we have to explain to her
that like everybody pretty much goes 10 miles over the speed
limit. Like that's not really breaking
the rule, right? And so I see even though she
lied to Denny, which I think is is definitely not OK, I guess I
saw it as one of these rule bending things and an act of
(07:55):
self-expression and staking her claim in our home, which is
another theme that you know, andall of you that are listening
also know that I keep going backto this, you know, family as a
democracy and everyone having a voice.
So I want to encourage her bending the rules.
I want to encourage herself expression.
And so I have definitely feel inconflict and I'm trying to
(08:16):
figure out where is the through line here that will feel right
or at least as a compromise to each member of our family.
Because as I said this morning, I feel like I'm the giant pole
in the center of the circus, like this tent pole.
I don't feel like I have a view on this one.
And there's just like chaos going all around.
Like you're triggered, Hunters triggered.
(08:36):
Danny doesn't know what to do. Jade and Maverick just start
cleaning up because they kind ofknew that daddy wouldn't like it
anyway. And so they but they didn't want
Hunter to be the only one with abeautiful chair.
So everybody's kind of got theirown feelings on the subject.
And I think that this is a greattopic for family meeting, but
also so relevant to our conversation about boundaries
because whose boundary wins? Right.
(09:00):
Who that's a great point. You know, like you have these,
you have these really strong feelings that you just outlined
and across these three differentthree different ways that Hunter
was in conflict with how you want things to operate in.
Our home, if you count the stickers.
Stickers are like the most offensive thing.
Possible. Dads out there know what I'm
(09:21):
talking about. So this is where I really
struggle with boundaries on likewhat are Greg's preferences and
triggers versus boundaries that he has a right to uphold?
Right, yeah, I'm still feeling this out too.
But I it's like pornography. I know it when I see it.
OK, I'm glad that that's where that went once you said that
word. OK, so I don't know that we have
(09:42):
an answer here, but this is really something that I think
consistently comes up in our home.
Today it came up about self-expression and stickers in
the kitchen. It's just a lot to live.
And especially as our kids get older and they still start to
have more of their own opinions and want to take up more space
in our home, which is something,as you know, we are encouraging
trying to figure out. How are we making this a
(10:04):
democracy where everyone's voiceis heard?
But we do, you know, hopefully better than our Congress, not
end up with a giant mishmash, but something that actually is
consistent and makes sense to live in alignment with our
values. Feel very good that with the
structures that we're putting inplace, we can come to terms in
some form of family meeting, family stories, trying to
(10:24):
understand everyone's perspective.
And this is a great example for us to talk through because I do
want there to be an outlet for self-expression and I need to
hold the line when it comes to putting stickers on furniture.
I just have to. Understood.
So as far as what can we commit to working on then I think
having this discussion at familymeeting.
Well, and and also letting Hunter know, hey, like, let's
(10:47):
let's have this conversation. You know, what I really don't
like is you trying to go around us because you know where that's
going to end up. Well, can we take some
accountability and ownership there and say, you know what?
She probably knew from past experience that daddy would just
say no, right? And that mommy would be a in
quote UN quote easygoing pushover.
But. It's a great topic for family
meeting. It's a great topic for.
(11:08):
Family meeting. We've got a family meeting wall,
topic wall right there for for her to write on.
You know I want to decorate my chair.
OK, understood. Well, I do think that you should
give her that feedback then did a different way to go about this
because right now it kind of feels like there's she has this
desire for self-expression or she has this creative idea and
we're stunting that outlet as opposed to sharing with her and
(11:30):
even maybe Co creating with her how this could have gone
differently. Yeah, I get it.
Look, she's also right now she'sthe leader of the of the three
of them. And when we're working and she
comes up with some ideas, she wants to lead and get carried
away with it. It makes total sense to me.
Yeah, Y'all, this is such a weird week because school's out,
but camp hasn't started yet, so everybody's kind of all over the
(11:52):
place. We're working.
They don't have as much structure as they're used to.
So this is just a tough week, but it's an opportunity I think
to really get clear and set intentions for the summer as
well. Agreed.
Cool. Let's frame the episode a little
bit here for a moment. So we're talking about
boundaries. We're, we're talking about those
within the home right now and how we can use some of the tools
(12:16):
that we have, like family meetings to better express what
those boundaries are and the values that they represent.
I think what you did last week around spending was a tremendous
way of showing a boundary. So Jade lost her first tooth.
And with the loss of her first tooth, she got $5 from the tooth
fairy. And Hunter immediately said,
let's go to the dollar store. So Jade can spend her $5.
(12:38):
Yeah. And so.
Yeah, I freaked out a little bitand I was like, wait, family
money episode #8 what is our process?
And so I thought about living inalignment with our values and
how to normalize money talk. And so yes, me and GPT came
together to come up with a little spending guide around
what can you do? Like first of all, Congrats, you
(12:58):
got $5. What can you do with it?
What can $5 do for you? And of course, we talked about
you can save it, you can spend it, you can share it, or you can
wait until. And it had this great idea of
what it, it called spending Saturdays.
And so like once a month on a Saturday or Sunday, the family
can buy with their money, our family can buy with our money,
(13:21):
something that we've been looking for, something that
we've been wanting, something that's on our wish list.
And so that creates the container.
I love a good container and thatcreates the container for the
things like a dinosaur puzzle ora sun catcher or a Unicorn lamp
that they've been talking about for months.
And rather than immediately upongetting money from the tooth
fairy running to a store to justbuy something, we can schedule a
(13:45):
time to use money if we want to.I think that's so cool.
It's like organizational behavior.
They're like we're teaching themthat we can come together to
decide the best use of funds andthat it doesn't just need to be
spending for one person. It could be for everybody, but
we decide what that money goes to towards together and that
(14:06):
once a month we do that so that you can build up this list over
the month and figure out what isthe highest order thing that you
want to take care of. Yeah, Thanks, GPT, because I
think that was a really good idea.
So cool. I mean, it reminds me of our
quarterly budgeting meetings, right, where you and I, we don't
necessarily talk too much about big budget items or capital
expenditures over the course of 1/4.
But once 1/4, when we assess what we've, what we've brought
(14:29):
in and where things are going, how investments are doing, then
we can also talk about any big budget items that we want to
spend money on. That's right.
Yeah. I love this.
They're learning. Such great.
I wouldn't say it's boundaries here, but this is a a big value
that's going to create the deliberate boundaries in the
home around spending money and when we do and how we do it.
(14:49):
Yeah. Well, another boundary is, no, I
am not taking you to the dollar store on Sunday morning with my
time because you got $5. That's my boundary.
That's a great boundary. The last thing I want to say is
about how grateful I am for the family meetings because one of
the things that I read about that I'm finding so true is this
idea that when you have a familymeeting, you've automatically
(15:13):
made space for these thorny issues that come up.
And so this is 2 weeks in a row where complex multivariate
issues have come up, where different people have different
opinions on things. Last week being commercial
characters and this week being self-expression with stickers on
our kitchen chairs that I'm so excited to have the time and
(15:35):
space allocated so that I don't have to worry about it in the
middle of my work day on Tuesday.
I know that we as a family are going to get off the whiteboard.
We're going to write down everybody's thoughts and
opinions and we are going to come.
We are going to collaborate on an outcome that may not feel
awesome to everyone, but where? What do you like to say that a
(15:56):
great outcome is 1 Where all sides feel uncomfortable?
Negotiation. Is great, yeah.
So to come up with a great negotiation where all sides feel
a little bit uncomfortable. That's right.
But it's clear. And by the way, we can iterate
on that, right? But at least we have something
that we've all formulated together and we can set forth
intentionally. Yeah, it feels really good.
It does. You know, a friend said to me
(16:20):
after listening. Family stories, family meals,
love it. I love it.
I'm putting those into practice.Family meetings feel a little
too formal. I think that what I'm noticing
with our family meetings is thatHunter, who's 7, is a very
active and engaged participant. Jade, sometimes Maverick just
(16:43):
for the snack in the game, but that's OK.
We're modeling the behavior for Maverick.
Jade is easing into participation, and Hunter is
there basically in the tribunal with the two of us making
decisions at age 7. And it's not more than 20
minutes. So to be able to get these
things out of the way and set upthe week for success in 20
(17:04):
minutes, I think is really worthputting that structure around.
So I'd encourage us to keep going here and I am committed to
to continuing here. But anyone that feels a little
bit like sheepish about jumping in, just make it 1 quick
question to solve for one quick problem and have a snack.
That's it. Yeah, because I can almost
(17:24):
guarantee that a problem will come up during the week that you
don't feel like dealing with exactly.
Maybe when you're all together you can allocate 20 minutes on
the weekend. That's right.
Just an idea. OK, great.
So we've spoken a bit about boundaries within our family.
Yep. Now let's talk about now.
I got to lean back for this. One Now let's talk about
(17:46):
boundaries with other adults in our lives and how we as a family
navigate boundaries with other individuals and the external
world. Right, so where do you want to
start here? Well, I'd, I'd like to stick to
our three questions. So where do you think, where do
you think we're doing well? With the outside world, with
(18:09):
anything that touches acquaintances, schools,
business, we do really well. I think just to put a finer
point on that, I'd say anywhere that we have been asked to
commit our time outside of our family, whether that's birthday
parties or extracurriculars or school commitments.
(18:30):
That is a place where I feel like we have been living within
our values, which is listening for the quiet nose and politely
saying no thank you if they are there, not over committing
ourselves and really focusing ontime with our nuclear family.
That's right. I agree.
That's where we're doing well. Where are we not doing so well?
(18:53):
Where compassion creeps in. That's how I would define it.
Say more. If I hold a boundary and I let
that boundary go, or I just let it be a little bit more flexible
because of someone I love, I usually regret it.
I almost always regret it, yeah.And I think that it's the same
(19:18):
as with our kids. Naming something that doesn't
work for you and the value that it represents is an extremely
important skill in life because boundaries, telling somebody no
and not naming why and not naming what that means for you,
that's a failure because you're not communicating anything.
(19:39):
You're just putting up a brick wall.
If you can communicate that you have a value and that this
boundary is set there because ofthat value, because it protects
that value, someone can disagreewith that value, and that's OK.
But at least you've named what that value is.
And so I try to name that value these days.
But what I've noticed is that ifmy value is #7 out of my most
(20:03):
important values and my boundaryof #7 conflicts with somebody's
number one, they will not hear me.
They will not hear me because they will say, oh, you're being
too rigid. Because I care about being the
matriarch of this family. And I'm the most important
person in this family because that's how I was raised, because
(20:24):
I respected my mother and she was the most important person.
And doesn't matter what you say about no sweets or don't give my
kids cookies or whatever, I willdo what I want because I'm the
matriarch and that is my value. And I don't know what to do in
those situations other than say,OK, I see you.
That is no longer welcome in my home.
(20:44):
And I don't know how to do any better than.
Yeah, that's where you are today.
That's where I am today. Yeah, I got that.
I struggle with this idea of telling people your boundaries.
You know, Brené Brown says clearis kind unclear is unkind, which
is like her version of make the implicit explicit.
And I think this also reminds meof Mel Robbins when she has this
(21:04):
whole let them theory, right? Just just let them.
Let them you can name your boundary, but then let them.
I was talking to a friend the other day and she said, you
know, Danielle, it's hard because the people who need the
most boundaries are those that are least receptive to hearing
them. And that really hit me because
when I have tried to set boundaries with people in my
(21:27):
life that I feel are not supporting my growth, and maybe
I'm not supporting their growth either, I've tended to do it in
a way that is, well, explicit, right?
And thoughtful, but explicit. And it has never been received
well, which has made me gun shy to set boundaries and has made
(21:50):
me kind of want to be haphazard and disorganized with them.
There's this poet, their name isElope, And they say how naive
was I to believe that if you just found the right words and
put them in the appropriate order, it would necessarily lead
to understanding. And that's kind of been my
struggle with boundaries as an adult.
(22:13):
The people that I want to set boundaries with cannot hear me.
They cannot see me. Hence why I need the boundary to
begin with. And so a lot of my work today is
in trying to set those boundaries quietly and doing
them for me without having to explain myself.
(22:36):
Because I know this much that explaining myself only makes
things worse. I get questioned, I get gas lit,
I get told that I am controllingand too rigid.
Yeah, it's it's this. I guess the irony for me is that
I try to set a boundary in orderto be seen.
(22:59):
And if I have to set a boundary with you, it's because you
haven't seen me. That's right.
This must be a common scenario in parenting.
It has to be because there are so many sitcoms about this where
there's the mother-in-law or themother who just does not hear or
(23:21):
see the children. And it's probably worth double
clicking on because we've heard it from a couple of our friends
where they have one grandparent that is extremely doting and
playful and respectful of the parents wishes and another
(23:42):
grandparent who is my way or thehighway.
And how do you deal with that, especially if those two
grandparents are husband and wife?
Yeah, if anybody has the answers, please let us know.
Yeah, what we've found is you have to treat them very
(24:03):
separately and let one in and keep the other away.
If that's what the doting grandparent wants, right, Right.
Because they are a team. And I really respect the
institution of marriage, especially those that have been
married long enough to be grandparents, right?
And so we need to make sure thatwe maintain respect for the
(24:25):
choices that the grandparents inour lives have made as well.
Yeah, but it doesn't mean we need to bend over backwards to
accommodate, no. Absolutely.
There's this great quote from Nedra Glover, TWAB, where she
says you are not required to setyourself on fire to keep other
people warm. So.
True. I love that.
And you know, I think about thatnot Even so much with the toxic
(24:48):
external people in my life, but in the ways that I've tried to
bend over backwards for the doting side.
Does that make any sense? The ways that I've tried to bend
over backwards to accommodate the grandparent that really is
warm and go with the flow and understands our values and where
(25:11):
I am right now when it comes to boundaries, is that, well, I
don't know where I am. I'm still figuring it out.
It's a day at a time right now. I know though, that as my
children get older, as our children get older, they are
more aware of toxic behavior because it is so unusual in our
(25:32):
home. And when it shows up here and it
causes ripples in the way that you and I behave, in the way
that the children behave, it's not acceptable.
And it makes me realize that even if I have been doing my
best to justify toxic behavior, because I think, oh, I can
(25:52):
handle it. I've got my, I've got myself
compassion and self kindness practices, right?
If I can, you know, I can handleit.
And this is just the way it is. There's something that happens
when I look at our children and I say, you know what?
I don't want them to have to handle it.
I don't want them to have to come up with their tool kit for
(26:12):
dealing with toxic people in ourhome.
This is not the place for that type of behavior.
This is your base camp. This is your safe space and you
do not deserve to have toxicity here.
God bless them. In our experience, our kids have
shown up before. We've had to say anything saying
(26:36):
I don't want that here. So true.
That's really weird, right? It's so weird.
Talk about the intergenerationalself.
In all honesty, watching the waythat our daughter stands up for
herself with her grandparents isshocking and beautiful.
Yeah, shocking and beautiful. Well put.
(26:57):
OK. So we talked about things that
we're doing well or talk about things where I don't want to say
we're not doing well, but we really just.
We're we're just learning. We're in the learning.
Space. We're figuring it out.
And what I'd like to commit to is just to keep a pulse on our
children and the way that they see the world as I navigate, as
(27:18):
we navigate how to set boundaries outside of our
family. Most definitely.
I'm not going to. I'm not saying that I'm going to
let them lead us, but I am recognizing in myself that there
still is this kind of inner turmoil that creates a fog, if
you will. And so I really value their
inputs and your input in how we navigate relationships outside
(27:42):
of outside of our immediate family.
It's. Part of why I love the summer,
the kids are shaking off the energy of their peers, whether
that's a good thing or a bad thing.
You know, they've got positive influences and negative
influences as we all do in our peer set, but they're shaking it
all off. And you can really see what's
stuck a couple days in a couple weeks in a month or two in to
(28:04):
having no school. So I'm excited to see how our
kids show up this summer and as we prepare for a couple weeks of
travel, Just the nuclear family,that should be pretty special.
Yeah, summer is a great reset. The space, it's beautiful.
OK, so boundaries, we definitelydon't have this all figured out.
(28:26):
No way. We are bumbling through it, but
we are trying to do it with someintentionality.
Yeah. And call to action is what do
you do in terms of boundaries athome for, for your kids, with
your kids, for helping your kidsset boundaries with their
friends, for setting boundaries between your nuclear family and
(28:46):
your extended family. These are all things that we'd
love to hear about. Yeah.
How are you modeling boundaries with people in your life for
your children? It wasn't modeled great for me,
and so I would love to hear how others are doing it.
All right, so to recap, the mostimportant thing about
boundaries, The point of a boundary isn't to push people
away, it's to make it safe enough to stay connected.
(29:09):
There's a pretty famous quote atthis point by Prentice Hemphill
who says boundaries are the distance at which I can love you
and me simultaneously. And sometimes with my children
that distance is centimeters andsometimes it is states.
States. So I think both are important
and just knowing, knowing where we're at can be really
(29:33):
clarifying. Absolutely.
OK, more to be revealed on this one.
Leave it here for now. More to be revealed.
Love you, goosey love. You goosey.
Hey guys, if you're still here, you're definitely our kind of
person. Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important Thing.
If this episode resonated with you, we'd love for you to follow
(29:54):
us wherever you get your podcasts and share it with
someone else. Building family culture on
purpose.
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