August 11, 2025 • 26 mins
Why We Started The Most Important Thing (The Backstory Episode)
TMIT 23 🎙️ Every journey has a beginning, and this is ours. We recorded this episode a few days after 01 Family Meetings. We didn’t release it at the time because, well, it felt premature. But we also didn’t want to wait too long, so here we are.
At the time, we really didn’t know where we were going but we did have a feeling: that family culture matters and more people will want to talk about it.
In this conversation, we unpack the moments and micro-decisions that led us here. We talk about:
- Why building a strong family culture feels like our most important work, and why now.
- How our professional experiences with high-performance culture inform what we want to create at home.
- The kind of community we hope to build with this podcast.
- Why this project is as much a time capsule for our kids as it is a resource for other parents.
This episode is a peek at why we’re here and what we hope to create together with all of you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey friends, Before we jump intotoday's episode, we want to
provide some context. So what you're about to hear was
recorded on day three of this project.
That's May 2nd, 2025. Before we even knew what the
most important thing would become.
We didn't know where this conversation would fit in, but
we knew we needed to have it. After all, we're big on making
(00:20):
the implicit explicit around here.
And now that we've completed twoseasons of Family Culture Inside
the Home, and we're currently onour first big family adventure
outside the home, it feels like the right time to share our why.
We hope you'll hear our passion for this project and that it
helps you reflect on your own why the things that matter most
in your family. So let's get to it.
(00:43):
OK? Welcome to the most important
thing. I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld. And together, we're exploring
how high performing families canbuild culture at home.
We sure are, and this is our Foundations episode.
That's right. So let's talk about why we're
here. Yeah.
Let's five years ago we made a lot of micro decisions as the
(01:08):
world was changing from a macro perspective.
And I think that we were making those decisions because those
were the best decisions for our family.
And the reason that the world was changing from a macro
perspective was because of all of these families making Mike
the same or similar micro decisions when faced with their
own mortality, right? So COVID was obviously an
(01:31):
unprecedented event. But for somebody like me feeling
like a provider needing to take care of my family, I made some
very quick choices. And that put us in a fish out of
water position, right? We were very safe and we were
very alone. We were not in New York anymore.
(01:52):
Yeah. You provided and you protected
very well during that time. And you still do Thank you,
Thank you. So now through circuitous,
circuitous, circuitous, circuitous routes, we found
ourselves living in Florida, which is pretty wild in and of
itself. But we're not alone, right?
The post COVID era of reorganization is about people
(02:14):
no longer optimizing for proximity to economic centers,
but for what truly matters over a lifetime.
So we moved closer to family, you and I Many people did.
This is a better environment forour children, right?
It's a place that is nourishing our mind, body and soul.
But it is not an economic center, and we didn't choose it
(02:35):
for its proximity to anything from a work perspective, given
all the advances in remote work.Now, if family culture is
sitting at the heart of this shift, we're asking, and I think
more than ever, people are asking.
This is my hypothesis. How do we build a life and a
family with intention, right? I think that we're not alone
(03:00):
also in experiencing some loneliness, some feelings of
being disconnected from a community, so to speak, from our
previous community of New York City.
It's hard to make friends as parents.
It's difficult to find families that are high performers,
balancing careers with intentional family culture.
(03:24):
And it's been hard to maintain those friendships that we left
behind, right? So my gut tells me that we are
just a microcosm of what's happening all over.
We're talking about it through this podcast, but I think that
(03:46):
it's going to require different approaches.
And I think we're going to be atthe forefront when we look back
in a few years that we're not just looking to connect with
others through work across the country, but we're a family
that's looking to connect with other families and build
community across the country through online connections
rather than traditional geographic proximity.
(04:10):
Yeah, so five years ago, we moved from Midtown Manhattan
with a toddler and an infant, right?
We moved three times in a year to rural Connecticut, to a
rental house in here in Delray Beach, to Delray.
And it was a whirlwind. And then we had our third baby.
(04:30):
We had our first 2 girls at Lenox Hill Hospital in Midtown
Manhattan. And if you had told me that we
were going to have a third childat Boca Regional Hospital, Boca
Raton, FL, I would have never believed you in February of
2020, right? But here we are.
And for a while it was new and exciting and it's still exciting
(04:55):
and wonderful. But we are also, I think we
should talk about like from my perspective and from a family
perspective, a micro perspective, if you will.
Our youngest is 3 1/2 now. So we have a 3 1/2 year old, A5
year old, and a 7 year old. And I feel like we've gone
through that intense blocking and tackling of the infant
(05:17):
toddler stage. And we now have this window of
time. I don't know how long it's going
to last, but I'm hoping that it lasts for a little while before
adolescence where we have this opportunity to impart some
wisdom, if you will, and to set the structures of our family
before they stop wanting to spend time with us and stop
(05:40):
caring what we think as much or what we have to say.
So I'm really excited to jump right into this window and to
make the most of it. Me too, most definitely.
I think we'd probably have 5 to 8 years and more massive action
takers. So yeah, we're starting now.
They think that it's really important to build a foundation,
(06:03):
frame out the house, if you will, so that we can fill it up
over time and put in these reps while the stakes are low.
So as we think about our operating system, if you will,
and the way that we work together as a family, our family
culture, I think it's really going to evolve a lot over the
(06:25):
next 5 to 10 years. And that's what I'm hoping
because right now, you know, andto date, it's really been led by
the two of us and we've reached this point, I believe, where we
can really move from a top down structure to more of a
democracy. I'm actually really excited to
hear their voices and to hear how they will influence our time
(06:46):
together in the way that we operate.
Because how boring would it be if it was just you and me?
Yeah, I was thinking today aboutwhat it must be like to see the
first home that your child movesinto.
Like, how how strange is that tosee a way that they've arranged
even their dorm room in a way that they've arranged their life
(07:10):
with some inspiration from the family culture, but other
inspiration from social culture,from, you know, from their
friends, from, from their hobbies and activities.
What do you got? Do you think that they're going
to have a Heath Ledger laminatedcollage like I did?
Oh man, that's the first thing Ithought of what he said.
Dorm room. I definitely walked into my
(07:31):
college dorm of a giant Heath Ledger laminated collage.
I was so proud of it. That's amazing.
RIP Heath Ledger. RIP.
That's an interesting thought. Yeah, I don't know.
Well, that's that's got to be like the amalgamation of so many
(07:51):
inputs from this age till they go off on their own.
What that first dorm room or first apartment looks like.
I was just reflecting on how proud I was to show my parents
like, yeah, I got this and this and this.
And like, you know, they're so great about patting me on the
(08:12):
back and being really happy for me.
And I'm sure none of it was in their aesthetic.
You know, just like black leather couch black lazy boy
like. Anyway, I digress.
That's all right. So foundations.
Yeah, tell us about I I know that you have some personal
thoughts and reasons why this exploration is important to you.
(08:37):
I do. I'm looking for I think the
first 90 to 100 people that really get what we're putting
down. And I want to be explicitly
deliberate that this early development is for people that
(08:57):
are a lot like us. And maybe we will expand that
remit over time. But right now I just want to
help other people with somethingthat we're really passionate
about and find others who are really passionate about what
we're doing here. So that's that's like, if I took
it take a look at the world, like that's my world
perspective, my selfish perspective were my reflect, my
(09:19):
reflecting on what I wish I had.Is that how amazing for our kids
or how amazing would it have been for me?
I wish I had this to have my parents recording conversations
about the two of them and the way that they have perspective
on how my brother and I should be raised or the things that
(09:43):
they want to implement or their hopes and dreams and belief
systems. Like all of the recordings I
have are them doing wonderful things with me and my brother,
but none of that is of the two of them.
And so I think this is a really nice thing for you and I to be
doing in a time capsule esque type of project if nothing else.
(10:06):
May I? May I?
Add I will please. What I hear you saying, at least
certainly the first part remindsme of one of my favorite quotes
from Paul Graham and How to do great work where he says work
hard on problems primarily driven by curiosity, which is
what we do in the day-to-day value stream, but run a parallel
process of noticing things that are missing where you're on the
(10:27):
frontier. And so I think not only are we
putting this out there on the frontier, but we're looking for
those other folks that are are spending time thinking about
this and are really passionate and motivated to instill
cultural values in within their family and find others and
(10:50):
foster that connection with families that are doing so
alongside of them. Amen.
You had a really good perspective on this about being
raised in or coming up in a culture of high performers and
seeing how that influences the opportunity set.
(11:13):
Sure. And how expansive that
opportunity set gets when you have tremendous culture.
Can you can you speak to that a bit?
Absolutely. So I think the strongest culture
that I was ever that I ever participated in was really in my
20s when I worked at Citadel. It's called Citadel Investment
Group at the time though, Ken, Ken Griffin's hedge fund.
(11:34):
And it was the first time in my life that I experienced what a
strong intentional culture couldfeel like.
And it left a lasting impression.
I think it probably had a lot todo with the time that I was
there. So I started in early 2008 and I
was there through 2016 and that I started right before the
financial crisis and then that was an extremely difficult time
(11:55):
for the firm. But those of us that stayed were
able to work on the hardest problems together.
And it was really, it was a highperforming group.
It was an elite group for sure, but it was one that had
extremely high standards. A-Team spirit a a similar
(12:17):
challenge, which I think and youknow and I'm as I'm reading more
about family culture is also really important is to have a
common enemy. I think a common enemy was
pretty much everybody else. It was this belief that we were
the somehow we became the underdog, which is crazy to
think about now but you know down 55% in 2008 like nobody
wanted that wasn't even possiblenobody else had the
(12:38):
sophisticated treasury and financing operation to actually
be down 55%. Those all those other businesses
were completely wiped out. So we were like the worst left,
right. And so this, this idea that we
were going to show everyone. I digress.
But it was, I think you can hearthe passion in my voice that it
was just such a wonderful experience to work with people
(12:58):
on challenging problems, people that had high standards, team
spirit and this drive towards excellence that we all knew that
we could do it. And so it, it permeated the
walls and that, that comeback along with the support that the
firm provided me, they really took care of us from, they took
care of me between subway cards and meals and other gym
(13:21):
memberships, things like that. I really felt like this was a
place that valued me and valued my work and demanded excellence
because they knew I was capable of it.
And Pat really has informed a lot of the way I think about of
our our family culture. I try to tell our kids a la Adam
Grant, that like, I'm going to give you this feedback, but it's
(13:42):
only because I know that you cando it.
I have very high expectations ofyou because I believe in you.
So that's my little Citadel spiel.
Were any of your friends at a firm with similar culture at
that time? Not that I know of, but you
(14:03):
know, we spoke to someone the other day that talked about how
he had a similar ethos he and his wife both did, and how that
really grounded them. And it's something that they
think about a lot. So it exists.
Well, that I think that conversation is what proves
where I was going with that question, which is that talent
density when it comes to businesses is very
idiosyncratic. You can have a building and in
(14:25):
that building you have Citadel and you have another similar
sized firm that doesn't have that culture.
And when the rent renewal comes up in 2009, only one is left.
Similarly, in Silicon Valley, there is a talent density of
lots of amazing businesses, but also lots of really bad
(14:46):
businesses. And so the point that, you know,
as we examine how high performers build culture at
home, we have to go global with this because it's going to be so
idiosyncratic because people don't have the strong culture
experience in a uniform perspective, nor does it rub off
from one friend to another. Because you could tell me that
(15:06):
story about Citadel, but I wasn't there and I can't until
living with you for 10 years, you know, get get that, like get
those lessons. And so I think in order to in
order to really scale what we'redoing here, this is the right
medium. It reinforces my belief that
it's not about a book. It's not about, you know,
(15:27):
classes, It's not about how to's.
It's nothing like that. It's a conversation and it's
creating a global conversation that others can be a part of
where we can welcome them in. And if this isn't their cup of
tea, take what you like, leave the rest, or don't take any at
all. As you're talking, I'm also
thinking about something that's come up in my research lately,
(15:50):
but also was what I would consider to be a, a core tenant
of my time at Citadel, which wasadaptability.
And so I'd like to talk a littlebit about, you know, we're new
to this podcast, how we don't know what we don't know.
And I think that the passion is there and the desire is there to
(16:11):
have a really strong family culture and to find like minded
individuals. But the form of this project may
adapt absolutely, and that's part of the journey.
Of course that's that's what we're signing up for.
I think we're signing up for nota podcast.
We're signing up for an exploration, a start up if you
will. Yeah, and the podcast is how we
(16:32):
make space for this project and hopefully how we.
Find others. Yep.
As Ken Griffin says, research iswhere the glory is made, and you
monetize it through the trading and in this case through the
community. But it's the research that's
going to get us the glory. Interesting.
(16:53):
Love Ken. This is not a Ken Griffin
podcast. Yeah.
And then I think another. So we talked a little bit about
our intentions. I also wanted to talk about why
we're doing this together and how this is actually a place
where our that's much better, where our personal interests
(17:13):
overlap. So, you know, we both listen to
a lot of podcasts and I think weeach love our respective
podcasts, but how often are we listening to the same things or
sending each other podcasts? Yeah, I try not to.
(17:34):
I try not to send you things, but I try to give you my take
away and you do the same and it's really, really helpful.
As opposed to a lot of people that are like, oh, you got to
listen to this, here's an hour long thing.
It's like, do I have to listen to the hour long thing?
Thanks for that respect of my time.
I appreciate that. I wish more people would do
that, that's for sure. But I think, you know, we are
(17:55):
setting out to make content thatis grounded, actionable and fun,
right? With a balanced perspective from
each of us, so that both partners actually want to listen
and maybe try a few things out at home alongside of us.
Absolutely. And we're the Guinea pigs at the
end of the day. I you know there is a bit of the
Tim Ferriss experiment to this. For sure, if Tim Ferriss had a
(18:16):
family right now, he, I hope, would be doing this stuff.
Yeah, I don't think we'd be doing this stuff.
I think we'd be following him. Tim, come join us.
Yeah. Don't have kids?
Tim But like on that topic, sorry, market, no, but on that
point, like I do think that family culture is one of the
most overlooked topics out there.
It is because what's the shape of it?
(18:39):
How do you define it? Like we couldn't even find a
drop down in Spotify for creators.
For what? We're even the category we're
talking. Where does this go?
Where does this fit in? It's not parenting.
Parenting is so one-on-one. It's so reactionary business
podcast. There's so much about the
individual that started the business and there will be some
kind of platitude about how oh, his family was the most
important thing, Ding Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
(19:01):
Am I allowed to say Ding Ding Ding or is armchair expert kind
of cornered that? I think so.
I think it's fair use. OK, great.
Moving on. But rarely do we see a deep,
focused exploration of what family culture actually could be
and how to shape it intentionally.
It's true the the business podcast that I spend the most
(19:22):
time with these days as foundersand you know, admittedly, David
Senora, the the host says I would, I don't want to be any of
these guys. There's three people I've come
across that I that I actually think had it down when it came
to family. One was Sol price from Costco or
price Club Costco, whose son wrote a biography or did the
(19:45):
forward of the his autobiography.
Another was Name's escaping me, Ed Thorpe.
I don't know why. I don't remember why He had a
good relationship with his wife.You know why?
Because he quit when he had enough.
He decided he had enough. And I forget the 3rd And so, you
(20:05):
know, 400 episodes and three people like we're not talking
about. High performing families led by,
you know, Elon Musk or Ken Griffin here.
Both of whom we love. Both.
Of whom we love. Probably don't want to be in
their family. Culture, and we probably want to
take some of what they believe and apply it to our family
culture, but not what they believe about families.
Well, let's put it this way, notwhat we've heard.
(20:26):
Not what we've heard. Not what we've heard.
They both have quite a few kids who knows what they're doing.
That's very true, would love to know.
Would love to. Know.
But the point is, we both know alot about Elon Musk, for
example, or Ken Griffin. We've listened to podcasts, read
books. I worked there for a while.
We don't know, you know, it's not something that's talked
about. And so part of this also is just
to hopefully bring it more into the zeitgeist.
I would love to hear more about what people are doing at home.
(20:50):
Yeah, me too. OK, so now let's talk about the
name. Yes, the most important thing.
Why is it called that, Greg? It.
Came to me in the middle of the night.
Like the best ideas do. Those the best ideas do.
And I was like, we've got this thing.
It's about family and family culture, but I don't want to put
family culture in the name or either of those words.
(21:14):
And what do people refer to always in business podcasts as
you know, how how do they interpret the Word family?
They always say, oh, family is the most important thing.
And then there's my business. Yeah.
And every founder that we've talked to more recently or even
anyone that we've talked to is someone that would be interested
in listening to this podcast, full stop.
Oh, that's the most important thing.
(21:35):
That's right. So that's where it came from.
And then I thought to arrest thedevelopment, which is starts the
entire show first. First line is what did we always
say is the most important thing?And George Michael Bluth throws
over from sleeping on the floor in his model home and says
breakfast. And Michael Bluth says family.
(21:57):
And he goes family, right? I thought you meant of the
things you eat. So that is not fair use.
But we'll figure out how to use that clip.
And it's comes up throughout thewhole show, the most important.
Follower X, he's going to put. It up follower X eventually,
yes. Cool.
So the most important thing, youheard it time and time again.
You hear it time and time again.Yeah.
(22:18):
No one ever talks about it. That's right, right?
And when you said it to me, I love the most important thing
because it's a framework that heis all the time.
So I thought of it as sure, family is the most important
thing, but what is the most important thing about family,
right? And so this really speaks to a
lot of what we are setting out to do, which is to distill down
(22:42):
the easiest, most actionable, most efficient ways to have
meaningful family culture, something that sticks with each
person. The way that Citadel stuck with
me, right? That's right.
And the first time I came out across this idea of the most
important thing, this heuristic or framework that I really do
(23:03):
think about a lot in my everydaylife was in Sam Zell's
autobiography, Am I Being Too Subtle?
Which is an amazing name, by theway, where he talks about his
approach to risk in deal making.Did he learn from his mentor Jay
Pritzker? And he said, Jay taught me to
use simplicity as a strategy. He had an uncanny ability to
grasp an extremely complex situation and immediately locate
(23:25):
weakness. He always said that if there
were 12 steps in a deal, the whole thing depended on just one
of them. So I don't know too many more
extremely complex situations than the nuclear family.
And what we are setting out to do is figure out which of those
12 steps is the most important one and to experiment with it
(23:49):
ourselves and to share it with the community.
Yep, Yeah, no, it's it's what wedo all day.
Somebody recommends a book that's not a biography.
We go and look up the Ted Talk or listen to the podcast and try
to get the yeah, the the meat ofthe.
Put it in cubby and chat with the AI.
Put it in cubby and chat with the AI.
(24:11):
We're going to try to be your AIhere.
That's right, to still it down for you.
And So what can what can our listeners expect?
Greg, what's this podcast all about?
What makes it unique? Well, one is we're not going to
waste your time. So if we can say it in 10
minutes or 15 minutes, we're going to say it.
And we're not going to ramble onfor an hour about.
(24:33):
Nobody has time. For that, no one has time for
that, I believe in every second should count here.
This is like, like the bear. Every second counts.
Yeah, on this. And so we're going to edit
things down to make sure that weare getting the message across
and that we're not rambling, butyou can also expect
vulnerability. I don't think that this is a
(24:54):
place where we're going to tell you just what the message is or
what the experts think. I think we're going to come back
with what works for us, what we're struggling with,
questions, complications. You'll probably learn a lot
about our family in the process,and we're willing to be a little
bit vulnerable when it comes to opening up that kimono in order
(25:16):
to build this community, right? What else am I missing here?
I don't. I don't really think you are
missing anything. It's just this combination of
distilling down the most important, the highlights, if
(25:38):
you will, of some of these ideasaround family culture and then
experimenting with them at home and reporting back.
Yep, that's right. I'm getting bored, let's stop.
Yeah, I agree. Love you, goosey.
Love you, goosey. Hey guys, if you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of person.
Thanks for spending this time with us on The Most Important
(25:59):
Thing. If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to followus wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with someone else.
Building family culture on purpose.
Hey friends, Before we jump intotoday's episode, we want to
provide some context. So what you're about to hear was
recorded on day three of this project.
That's May 2nd, 2025. Before we even knew what the
most important thing would become.
We didn't know where this conversation would fit in, but
we knew we needed to have it. After all, we're big on making
(00:20):
the implicit explicit around here.
And now that we've completed twoseasons of Family Culture Inside
the Home, and we're currently onour first big family adventure
outside the home, it feels like the right time to share our why.
We hope you'll hear our passion for this project and that it
helps you reflect on your own why the things that matter most
in your family. So let's get to it.
(00:43):
OK? Welcome to the most important
thing. I'm Danielle DeMarco Neufeld.
And I'm Greg Neufeld. And together, we're exploring
how high performing families canbuild culture at home.
We sure are, and this is our Foundations episode.
That's right. So let's talk about why we're
here. Yeah.
Let's five years ago we made a lot of micro decisions as the
(01:08):
world was changing from a macro perspective.
And I think that we were making those decisions because those
were the best decisions for our family.
And the reason that the world was changing from a macro
perspective was because of all of these families making Mike
the same or similar micro decisions when faced with their
own mortality, right? So COVID was obviously an
(01:31):
unprecedented event. But for somebody like me feeling
like a provider needing to take care of my family, I made some
very quick choices. And that put us in a fish out of
water position, right? We were very safe and we were
very alone. We were not in New York anymore.
(01:52):
Yeah. You provided and you protected
very well during that time. And you still do Thank you,
Thank you. So now through circuitous,
circuitous, circuitous, circuitous routes, we found
ourselves living in Florida, which is pretty wild in and of
itself. But we're not alone, right?
The post COVID era of reorganization is about people
(02:14):
no longer optimizing for proximity to economic centers,
but for what truly matters over a lifetime.
So we moved closer to family, you and I Many people did.
This is a better environment forour children, right?
It's a place that is nourishing our mind, body and soul.
But it is not an economic center, and we didn't choose it
(02:35):
for its proximity to anything from a work perspective, given
all the advances in remote work.Now, if family culture is
sitting at the heart of this shift, we're asking, and I think
more than ever, people are asking.
This is my hypothesis. How do we build a life and a
family with intention, right? I think that we're not alone
(03:00):
also in experiencing some loneliness, some feelings of
being disconnected from a community, so to speak, from our
previous community of New York City.
It's hard to make friends as parents.
It's difficult to find families that are high performers,
balancing careers with intentional family culture.
(03:24):
And it's been hard to maintain those friendships that we left
behind, right? So my gut tells me that we are
just a microcosm of what's happening all over.
We're talking about it through this podcast, but I think that
(03:46):
it's going to require different approaches.
And I think we're going to be atthe forefront when we look back
in a few years that we're not just looking to connect with
others through work across the country, but we're a family
that's looking to connect with other families and build
community across the country through online connections
rather than traditional geographic proximity.
(04:10):
Yeah, so five years ago, we moved from Midtown Manhattan
with a toddler and an infant, right?
We moved three times in a year to rural Connecticut, to a
rental house in here in Delray Beach, to Delray.
And it was a whirlwind. And then we had our third baby.
(04:30):
We had our first 2 girls at Lenox Hill Hospital in Midtown
Manhattan. And if you had told me that we
were going to have a third childat Boca Regional Hospital, Boca
Raton, FL, I would have never believed you in February of
2020, right? But here we are.
And for a while it was new and exciting and it's still exciting
(04:55):
and wonderful. But we are also, I think we
should talk about like from my perspective and from a family
perspective, a micro perspective, if you will.
Our youngest is 3 1/2 now. So we have a 3 1/2 year old, A5
year old, and a 7 year old. And I feel like we've gone
through that intense blocking and tackling of the infant
(05:17):
toddler stage. And we now have this window of
time. I don't know how long it's going
to last, but I'm hoping that it lasts for a little while before
adolescence where we have this opportunity to impart some
wisdom, if you will, and to set the structures of our family
before they stop wanting to spend time with us and stop
(05:40):
caring what we think as much or what we have to say.
So I'm really excited to jump right into this window and to
make the most of it. Me too, most definitely.
I think we'd probably have 5 to 8 years and more massive action
takers. So yeah, we're starting now.
They think that it's really important to build a foundation,
(06:03):
frame out the house, if you will, so that we can fill it up
over time and put in these reps while the stakes are low.
So as we think about our operating system, if you will,
and the way that we work together as a family, our family
culture, I think it's really going to evolve a lot over the
(06:25):
next 5 to 10 years. And that's what I'm hoping
because right now, you know, andto date, it's really been led by
the two of us and we've reached this point, I believe, where we
can really move from a top down structure to more of a
democracy. I'm actually really excited to
hear their voices and to hear how they will influence our time
(06:46):
together in the way that we operate.
Because how boring would it be if it was just you and me?
Yeah, I was thinking today aboutwhat it must be like to see the
first home that your child movesinto.
Like, how how strange is that tosee a way that they've arranged
even their dorm room in a way that they've arranged their life
(07:10):
with some inspiration from the family culture, but other
inspiration from social culture,from, you know, from their
friends, from, from their hobbies and activities.
What do you got? Do you think that they're going
to have a Heath Ledger laminatedcollage like I did?
Oh man, that's the first thing Ithought of what he said.
Dorm room. I definitely walked into my
(07:31):
college dorm of a giant Heath Ledger laminated collage.
I was so proud of it. That's amazing.
RIP Heath Ledger. RIP.
That's an interesting thought. Yeah, I don't know.
Well, that's that's got to be like the amalgamation of so many
(07:51):
inputs from this age till they go off on their own.
What that first dorm room or first apartment looks like.
I was just reflecting on how proud I was to show my parents
like, yeah, I got this and this and this.
And like, you know, they're so great about patting me on the
(08:12):
back and being really happy for me.
And I'm sure none of it was in their aesthetic.
You know, just like black leather couch black lazy boy
like. Anyway, I digress.
That's all right. So foundations.
Yeah, tell us about I I know that you have some personal
thoughts and reasons why this exploration is important to you.
(08:37):
I do. I'm looking for I think the
first 90 to 100 people that really get what we're putting
down. And I want to be explicitly
deliberate that this early development is for people that
(08:57):
are a lot like us. And maybe we will expand that
remit over time. But right now I just want to
help other people with somethingthat we're really passionate
about and find others who are really passionate about what
we're doing here. So that's that's like, if I took
it take a look at the world, like that's my world
perspective, my selfish perspective were my reflect, my
(09:19):
reflecting on what I wish I had.Is that how amazing for our kids
or how amazing would it have been for me?
I wish I had this to have my parents recording conversations
about the two of them and the way that they have perspective
on how my brother and I should be raised or the things that
(09:43):
they want to implement or their hopes and dreams and belief
systems. Like all of the recordings I
have are them doing wonderful things with me and my brother,
but none of that is of the two of them.
And so I think this is a really nice thing for you and I to be
doing in a time capsule esque type of project if nothing else.
(10:06):
May I? May I?
Add I will please. What I hear you saying, at least
certainly the first part remindsme of one of my favorite quotes
from Paul Graham and How to do great work where he says work
hard on problems primarily driven by curiosity, which is
what we do in the day-to-day value stream, but run a parallel
process of noticing things that are missing where you're on the
(10:27):
frontier. And so I think not only are we
putting this out there on the frontier, but we're looking for
those other folks that are are spending time thinking about
this and are really passionate and motivated to instill
cultural values in within their family and find others and
(10:50):
foster that connection with families that are doing so
alongside of them. Amen.
You had a really good perspective on this about being
raised in or coming up in a culture of high performers and
seeing how that influences the opportunity set.
(11:13):
Sure. And how expansive that
opportunity set gets when you have tremendous culture.
Can you can you speak to that a bit?
Absolutely. So I think the strongest culture
that I was ever that I ever participated in was really in my
20s when I worked at Citadel. It's called Citadel Investment
Group at the time though, Ken, Ken Griffin's hedge fund.
(11:34):
And it was the first time in my life that I experienced what a
strong intentional culture couldfeel like.
And it left a lasting impression.
I think it probably had a lot todo with the time that I was
there. So I started in early 2008 and I
was there through 2016 and that I started right before the
financial crisis and then that was an extremely difficult time
(11:55):
for the firm. But those of us that stayed were
able to work on the hardest problems together.
And it was really, it was a highperforming group.
It was an elite group for sure, but it was one that had
extremely high standards. A-Team spirit a a similar
(12:17):
challenge, which I think and youknow and I'm as I'm reading more
about family culture is also really important is to have a
common enemy. I think a common enemy was
pretty much everybody else. It was this belief that we were
the somehow we became the underdog, which is crazy to
think about now but you know down 55% in 2008 like nobody
wanted that wasn't even possiblenobody else had the
(12:38):
sophisticated treasury and financing operation to actually
be down 55%. Those all those other businesses
were completely wiped out. So we were like the worst left,
right. And so this, this idea that we
were going to show everyone. I digress.
But it was, I think you can hearthe passion in my voice that it
was just such a wonderful experience to work with people
(12:58):
on challenging problems, people that had high standards, team
spirit and this drive towards excellence that we all knew that
we could do it. And so it, it permeated the
walls and that, that comeback along with the support that the
firm provided me, they really took care of us from, they took
care of me between subway cards and meals and other gym
(13:21):
memberships, things like that. I really felt like this was a
place that valued me and valued my work and demanded excellence
because they knew I was capable of it.
And Pat really has informed a lot of the way I think about of
our our family culture. I try to tell our kids a la Adam
Grant, that like, I'm going to give you this feedback, but it's
(13:42):
only because I know that you cando it.
I have very high expectations ofyou because I believe in you.
So that's my little Citadel spiel.
Were any of your friends at a firm with similar culture at
that time? Not that I know of, but you
(14:03):
know, we spoke to someone the other day that talked about how
he had a similar ethos he and his wife both did, and how that
really grounded them. And it's something that they
think about a lot. So it exists.
Well, that I think that conversation is what proves
where I was going with that question, which is that talent
density when it comes to businesses is very
idiosyncratic. You can have a building and in
(14:25):
that building you have Citadel and you have another similar
sized firm that doesn't have that culture.
And when the rent renewal comes up in 2009, only one is left.
Similarly, in Silicon Valley, there is a talent density of
lots of amazing businesses, but also lots of really bad
(14:46):
businesses. And so the point that, you know,
as we examine how high performers build culture at
home, we have to go global with this because it's going to be so
idiosyncratic because people don't have the strong culture
experience in a uniform perspective, nor does it rub off
from one friend to another. Because you could tell me that
(15:06):
story about Citadel, but I wasn't there and I can't until
living with you for 10 years, you know, get get that, like get
those lessons. And so I think in order to in
order to really scale what we'redoing here, this is the right
medium. It reinforces my belief that
it's not about a book. It's not about, you know,
(15:27):
classes, It's not about how to's.
It's nothing like that. It's a conversation and it's
creating a global conversation that others can be a part of
where we can welcome them in. And if this isn't their cup of
tea, take what you like, leave the rest, or don't take any at
all. As you're talking, I'm also
thinking about something that's come up in my research lately,
(15:50):
but also was what I would consider to be a, a core tenant
of my time at Citadel, which wasadaptability.
And so I'd like to talk a littlebit about, you know, we're new
to this podcast, how we don't know what we don't know.
And I think that the passion is there and the desire is there to
(16:11):
have a really strong family culture and to find like minded
individuals. But the form of this project may
adapt absolutely, and that's part of the journey.
Of course that's that's what we're signing up for.
I think we're signing up for nota podcast.
We're signing up for an exploration, a start up if you
will. Yeah, and the podcast is how we
(16:32):
make space for this project and hopefully how we.
Find others. Yep.
As Ken Griffin says, research iswhere the glory is made, and you
monetize it through the trading and in this case through the
community. But it's the research that's
going to get us the glory. Interesting.
(16:53):
Love Ken. This is not a Ken Griffin
podcast. Yeah.
And then I think another. So we talked a little bit about
our intentions. I also wanted to talk about why
we're doing this together and how this is actually a place
where our that's much better, where our personal interests
(17:13):
overlap. So, you know, we both listen to
a lot of podcasts and I think weeach love our respective
podcasts, but how often are we listening to the same things or
sending each other podcasts? Yeah, I try not to.
(17:34):
I try not to send you things, but I try to give you my take
away and you do the same and it's really, really helpful.
As opposed to a lot of people that are like, oh, you got to
listen to this, here's an hour long thing.
It's like, do I have to listen to the hour long thing?
Thanks for that respect of my time.
I appreciate that. I wish more people would do
that, that's for sure. But I think, you know, we are
(17:55):
setting out to make content thatis grounded, actionable and fun,
right? With a balanced perspective from
each of us, so that both partners actually want to listen
and maybe try a few things out at home alongside of us.
Absolutely. And we're the Guinea pigs at the
end of the day. I you know there is a bit of the
Tim Ferriss experiment to this. For sure, if Tim Ferriss had a
(18:16):
family right now, he, I hope, would be doing this stuff.
Yeah, I don't think we'd be doing this stuff.
I think we'd be following him. Tim, come join us.
Yeah. Don't have kids?
Tim But like on that topic, sorry, market, no, but on that
point, like I do think that family culture is one of the
most overlooked topics out there.
It is because what's the shape of it?
(18:39):
How do you define it? Like we couldn't even find a
drop down in Spotify for creators.
For what? We're even the category we're
talking. Where does this go?
Where does this fit in? It's not parenting.
Parenting is so one-on-one. It's so reactionary business
podcast. There's so much about the
individual that started the business and there will be some
kind of platitude about how oh, his family was the most
important thing, Ding Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
(19:01):
Am I allowed to say Ding Ding Ding or is armchair expert kind
of cornered that? I think so.
I think it's fair use. OK, great.
Moving on. But rarely do we see a deep,
focused exploration of what family culture actually could be
and how to shape it intentionally.
It's true the the business podcast that I spend the most
(19:22):
time with these days as foundersand you know, admittedly, David
Senora, the the host says I would, I don't want to be any of
these guys. There's three people I've come
across that I that I actually think had it down when it came
to family. One was Sol price from Costco or
price Club Costco, whose son wrote a biography or did the
(19:45):
forward of the his autobiography.
Another was Name's escaping me, Ed Thorpe.
I don't know why. I don't remember why He had a
good relationship with his wife.You know why?
Because he quit when he had enough.
He decided he had enough. And I forget the 3rd And so, you
(20:05):
know, 400 episodes and three people like we're not talking
about. High performing families led by,
you know, Elon Musk or Ken Griffin here.
Both of whom we love. Both.
Of whom we love. Probably don't want to be in
their family. Culture, and we probably want to
take some of what they believe and apply it to our family
culture, but not what they believe about families.
Well, let's put it this way, notwhat we've heard.
(20:26):
Not what we've heard. Not what we've heard.
They both have quite a few kids who knows what they're doing.
That's very true, would love to know.
Would love to. Know.
But the point is, we both know alot about Elon Musk, for
example, or Ken Griffin. We've listened to podcasts, read
books. I worked there for a while.
We don't know, you know, it's not something that's talked
about. And so part of this also is just
to hopefully bring it more into the zeitgeist.
I would love to hear more about what people are doing at home.
(20:50):
Yeah, me too. OK, so now let's talk about the
name. Yes, the most important thing.
Why is it called that, Greg? It.
Came to me in the middle of the night.
Like the best ideas do. Those the best ideas do.
And I was like, we've got this thing.
It's about family and family culture, but I don't want to put
family culture in the name or either of those words.
(21:14):
And what do people refer to always in business podcasts as
you know, how how do they interpret the Word family?
They always say, oh, family is the most important thing.
And then there's my business. Yeah.
And every founder that we've talked to more recently or even
anyone that we've talked to is someone that would be interested
in listening to this podcast, full stop.
Oh, that's the most important thing.
(21:35):
That's right. So that's where it came from.
And then I thought to arrest thedevelopment, which is starts the
entire show first. First line is what did we always
say is the most important thing?And George Michael Bluth throws
over from sleeping on the floor in his model home and says
breakfast. And Michael Bluth says family.
(21:57):
And he goes family, right? I thought you meant of the
things you eat. So that is not fair use.
But we'll figure out how to use that clip.
And it's comes up throughout thewhole show, the most important.
Follower X, he's going to put. It up follower X eventually,
yes. Cool.
So the most important thing, youheard it time and time again.
You hear it time and time again.Yeah.
(22:18):
No one ever talks about it. That's right, right?
And when you said it to me, I love the most important thing
because it's a framework that heis all the time.
So I thought of it as sure, family is the most important
thing, but what is the most important thing about family,
right? And so this really speaks to a
lot of what we are setting out to do, which is to distill down
(22:42):
the easiest, most actionable, most efficient ways to have
meaningful family culture, something that sticks with each
person. The way that Citadel stuck with
me, right? That's right.
And the first time I came out across this idea of the most
important thing, this heuristic or framework that I really do
(23:03):
think about a lot in my everydaylife was in Sam Zell's
autobiography, Am I Being Too Subtle?
Which is an amazing name, by theway, where he talks about his
approach to risk in deal making.Did he learn from his mentor Jay
Pritzker? And he said, Jay taught me to
use simplicity as a strategy. He had an uncanny ability to
grasp an extremely complex situation and immediately locate
(23:25):
weakness. He always said that if there
were 12 steps in a deal, the whole thing depended on just one
of them. So I don't know too many more
extremely complex situations than the nuclear family.
And what we are setting out to do is figure out which of those
12 steps is the most important one and to experiment with it
(23:49):
ourselves and to share it with the community.
Yep, Yeah, no, it's it's what wedo all day.
Somebody recommends a book that's not a biography.
We go and look up the Ted Talk or listen to the podcast and try
to get the yeah, the the meat ofthe.
Put it in cubby and chat with the AI.
Put it in cubby and chat with the AI.
(24:11):
We're going to try to be your AIhere.
That's right, to still it down for you.
And So what can what can our listeners expect?
Greg, what's this podcast all about?
What makes it unique? Well, one is we're not going to
waste your time. So if we can say it in 10
minutes or 15 minutes, we're going to say it.
And we're not going to ramble onfor an hour about.
(24:33):
Nobody has time. For that, no one has time for
that, I believe in every second should count here.
This is like, like the bear. Every second counts.
Yeah, on this. And so we're going to edit
things down to make sure that weare getting the message across
and that we're not rambling, butyou can also expect
vulnerability. I don't think that this is a
(24:54):
place where we're going to tell you just what the message is or
what the experts think. I think we're going to come back
with what works for us, what we're struggling with,
questions, complications. You'll probably learn a lot
about our family in the process,and we're willing to be a little
bit vulnerable when it comes to opening up that kimono in order
(25:16):
to build this community, right? What else am I missing here?
I don't. I don't really think you are
missing anything. It's just this combination of
distilling down the most important, the highlights, if
(25:38):
you will, of some of these ideasaround family culture and then
experimenting with them at home and reporting back.
Yep, that's right. I'm getting bored, let's stop.
Yeah, I agree. Love you, goosey.
Love you, goosey. Hey guys, if you're still here,
you're definitely our kind of person.
Thanks for spending this time with us on The Most Important
(25:59):
Thing. If this episode resonated with
you, we'd love for you to followus wherever you get your
podcasts and share it with someone else.
Building family culture on purpose.
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