July 3, 2025 • 31 mins
🎙️ TMIT Teammates #1: Jennifer Zelman on Raising a Global Family
Welcome to the very first episode of TMIT Teammates—our new segment where we talk with real families we love and admire about how they’re building culture at home.
Our first guest is our brilliant and adventurous friend Jennifer Zelman. Jen is raising a blended family across two continents—splitting time between New York and Rome—and in this episode, she shares what that experience has taught her about parenting, presence, and letting go of perfection.
We talk about everything from raising culturally open kids to releasing the pressure to optimize, and what it means to stay connected as a family when your environment is constantly shifting.
đź’ˇ Episode Highlights- How Jen and her husband decided to move their family to Rome
- What it’s like raising four kids in a blended household
- Letting travel shape your family values (without over-planning it)
- Teaching kids inclusion, resilience, and perspective through experience
- How Jen’s childhood shaped the kind of mother she wants to be today
- The beauty of doing hard things together—and the gift of slowing down
TMIT Teammates is about making the invisible visible—talking honestly about how families actually work, grow, and support one another in real life.
Thanks for listening—and thank you Jen for kicking this off with us. 🧡
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to a new segment we're calling Teamit Teammates, where
we bring on friends of the podcast to share what family
culture looks like in their homes today.
Our first guest is my dear friend of nearly two decades,
the brilliant and beautiful Jennifer Zelven.
Jen is so smart and thoughtful while also being silly and a
true adventurer. I just love her and I've learned
(00:23):
so much from her over the years and I'm thrilled that she is
here to talk about what family culture looks like in her world
right now. Hi, Jen.
Hi, what a beautiful intro. Thank you.
All from the heart. I love you so much.
Yeah. So to get us started, can you
describe your family to us, who you are, and anything else that
(00:43):
you think we should know? Sure.
Well, I come from quite a blended family.
My husband and I have been married now we just celebrated
11 years and between us we have four children but two of them
are in their early 20s now. They're from his first marriage
but my husband in a unique situation, has full custody of
(01:06):
them. So when I met him they were 10
and 12 so they grew up in our household so they're pretty much
like children to me. And then we had two of our own 2
little girls a few years later and they are now 5 and 10.
So all four of us, I mean, or all six of us now live all
(01:27):
together. And we recently in the last few
years, made a major change wherewe were located in New York
forever. Both my husband and I born and
raised in New York. And during COVID, we kind of saw
that we can be anywhere. So we kind of got the crazy
idea. We say, what are we doing here
in cold New York, which we love,but, you know, we want to extend
(01:51):
our horizons. Life is short.
So we decided to pick up and move our whole clan over to
Italy. So we landed in Rome and we've
been here for the last three years now, on and off for six
months. So we'll do six months in New
York, six months in Rome. And this is now our third year
doing it. And we're actually all packed up
and ready to go back tomorrow. So you caught us on a funny time
(02:16):
when we're in such a transition between the two countries, but
that's been our situation as of late.
I love that. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah, so I feel like it's kind of the most perfectly imperfect
time to talk to you then as far as like how you navigate.
So would love to hear wherever you want to go, but like how it
is how the Zelman's are in Rome versus how they are in the
(02:38):
Hamptons kind of thing and how you manage it all.
Yeah, well, it's, I mean, it's definitely best of all worlds.
I think both New York and Rome have so many different things to
offer. But a lot of times people say,
why Rome? Neither Robert nor I are
(03:00):
Italian. My mother's from Mexico.
My husband is Eastern European Jewish descent.
So Rome doesn't really make sense in any, you know, logical
way. But we said, OK, we want to be
somewhere in Europe and we wanted somewhere with good
weather. We both love the sun.
(03:20):
So we were thinking between Spain and Rome and Rome kind of
just fell into place. We had a great found a great
school, we found a great apartment and we always thought
it would be a one time thing. So it's kind of like a a study
abroad, you know, like a family wise.
But we did it one year we fell so in love.
(03:41):
So we can't imagine not coming back.
So we did it again. Again, we said definitely not
coming back. That's it.
Like we have to. There's lots of going on in New
York. Here we are again, third year,
and already we're talking about coming back next year.
Because I would say the most important reasons are the
(04:02):
friends we've made, of course, through school, having young
kids in school and going to a new country.
You meet so many parents throughschool.
And what I love is that we send the kids to an International
School so they have so much exposure to Italian children
because I think a huge percentage of the school are
Italian, but the rest of the percentage are kids from all
over the world. So my daughters have friends
(04:24):
from Nigeria, Singapore, Japan, like just the name of you.
So the exposure to other cultures is so tremendous and
it's such a gift to them. If that's something really
special that we don't get in NewYork where we live in this
little suburban bubble, which has its, you know, great aspects
as well. But anyway, being at this
(04:45):
International School meeting, the people we're meeting is so
nice because these people that we've been meeting, a lot of
times, they're also on their ownhere in Rome.
So they're really open socially.They're really open to making
connections. So I feel like our social life
here is incredible. You know, everybody's so in New
York, people kind of have their own thing from years past from
(05:07):
this, you know, friends from thecity.
And here everybody's open and wants to hang out, wants to get
to know you and learn about yourculture.
So that's really cool as a family that we all get to
experience. Also, of course, you'd have to
mention the food, the food quality.
Instead of giving my kids bags of goldfish, I'm giving them
brushed prosciutto and parmesan cheese.
(05:29):
It's just the food. The level of food is so
spectacular that that's for me ahuge drop.
And our ability to travel while we're here is also great.
Are we were in Egypt so easily for 10 days.
It's a 3 hour flight. We travel on the almost every
(05:51):
other weekend to different European countries and it is so
simple. Even travelling within Italy, we
hop on a train and each region, Italy is so unique and
different. The cuisine is different, the
people are different, even the dialect.
Sometimes there's mountains, sea, cities.
It's just the exposure we have being in the central location.
(06:13):
Italy is so awesome with no timechanges many times to deal with,
which for families and young children is huge.
So I really though they're just some of the reasons why we find
the quality of life here in Romeso great.
Other things I know about you and Robert is that you both
really value travel, and I feel like from the moment the two of
(06:34):
you met, travel was a huge part of your life.
How has that changed and how hasit stayed the same since you had
kids? Like, how do you bring them
along in that family, culture, love of travel?
It's so funny because I rememberlike back in the day when
Danielle and I were young and wild and travelling abroad and
(06:54):
travelling every weekend and, you know, studying in London.
We, I remember thinking in my mind like, Oh my God, I had to
get everything out of my system now and do all the travelling
because once I get married and once I have kids, it's all over.
Like I'm never travelling again or it's going to be decades
until I can travel again. But it's funny how the universe
works because the complete opposite happened.
(07:15):
Now, since I've had kids, I've never travelled so much in my
entire life. So being here, it's just gone up
10 times. Travel for us is, I think, here
to stay. It's definitely not slowing
down, that's for sure. And as far as the children, each
country I feel like as a different level of how much they
welcome children. So luckily in Italy they're so
(07:38):
welcoming to children. So that's made it very easy.
Other countries you go to are not so welcoming to children.
So it's also you have to pick and choose where you go if
that's a concern, if you have little ones, because that can
make or break a trip. I had friends who just went to
Japan with little ones and they were like, no, they said they
are not. It's a culture of politeness, of
(08:00):
orderliness. So not so toddler friendly.
So if you do have those little ones, Italy is a great one, the
Netherlands it is. Certain places I feel like are
you would have an easier time. So picking strategically is
good, yeah. That's really great advice, Jen.
(08:21):
You mentioned the friends, the food and the proximity to other
places are the things that you and Robert really value.
And obviously the kids are goingto value those things too
because they're having these newexperiences with new people.
The food is, you know, goes without saying, but then
actually the the travel in and of itself for the kids, that
(08:44):
travel represents a certain value to you and Robert about
seeing the world. What I noticed with our kids is
that there's some story that needs to be woven in about the
adventure. And it's usually not the same
story that Danielle and I care about.
So I'm just curious, how do you prepare the family?
How do you prepare for travel tonew places to get everyone on
(09:06):
the same page about the same enthusiastic page, even if it's
not for the same reasons? Yeah, I guess we don't make a
big thing like I want them this to be the exposure to new
cultures and landing in new places.
I want that to be their normal. So I don't want to make it a big
thing that like when we see people who do things
(09:28):
differently, I don't want them to be shocked and alarmed.
Like I want them to be open minded enough to be have that
flexibility of seeing new thingsand seeing new people and
customs and not being shocked and odd and being like, Oh, I
want to just know that things can be done differently.
So honestly, we, I don't, we kind of, I don't really give
them much prep anywhere we go. And I just let them kind of
(09:50):
experience it because a lot of times I feel like when I over
prepare them for things, it's somuch of me projecting my stuff
onto them. They're like a blank slate.
And they I think are born naturally open.
And I don't want to teach them anything or even put ideas in
their head. So I feel like naturally they
(10:10):
just are so absorbed. Like they just absorbed things.
Like for instance, like when we were in like Dubai, we had a
babysitter come and you know, she comes in a, in a burger and
you know, she's asking are thereany men in the house?
And like, and I didn't say anything to the kids to even
prepare them. And they don't, they don't think
(10:32):
anything of it. They're like, oh, she's like, I
don't know. They just say things that are,
they don't make a big issue out of it.
They have questions sometimes, but they're asked in a way where
it's just out of curiosity. It's not like looking down or
afraid. And I don't want them to be
scared and I want them to have that flexible mindset.
(10:55):
And I feel like all this troublehas made them very flexible and
open minded and I'm very happy for that.
I feel like I can drop them anywhere and they would be OK.
I want to circle back to this idea that you mentioned about
the girls having an appreciationfor all types of cultures and
just considering that normal youand I both life psychology and I
(11:16):
would love to know like if you were to psychoanalyze that goal
of yours or that value of yours,where do you think that comes
from? It's.
A great question. It's a beautiful.
Priority, but it's a very specific 1 great question.
No, and honestly, I what popped into my head, I never thought
about that. Like why I put so much.
(11:36):
I think I just thought of something that could be
relevant. So where I grew up, you know, in
suburban town in Westchester and, and then where I've, where
I found he lives in New York nowa little suburb in Long Island
similarities where it's kind of like a bubble.
Everybody, 99% of the student bodies, the same background, 99%
(11:58):
huge percentage are a huge are like the same background.
So this exposure to other cultures is very important to
me. And I think maybe is that
growing up, I, I was where I am,my mother's from Mexico, my
father's Jewish. So I always felt a little bit
(12:22):
like an outsider culturally. Like I always felt weird that
not weird, but just different and not necessarily belonging
that my mom, you know, didn't speak English without an accent.
I was the only Jewish kid reallyto speak of and I with the last
(12:44):
name Schwartz, there was no hiding it.
So I feel like I always felt like I stuck and I think this
was just my an illusion, but I always felt different because of
these cultural background differences.
So maybe it's something linked to that where I want, I always
(13:05):
wanted to feel inclusive. So I want my children, I guess,
to the includers. Yeah, that makes sense.
A lot of sense thought of it. That's so weird.
Yeah. But the maybe that's why it's a
the whole sense of belonging. And I want them to.
Not only that, but I want them to treat others how I wanted to
(13:28):
be treated. That makes a lot of sense.
Makes a lot of. Sense, yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah, I think about also. Am I?
Using my kids as like a tool to heal my aren't.
We all please. Do you?
Think that you are exempt from that.
No, yeah. OK.
(13:49):
No, I think. It's beautiful.
No, that's not true. Because the other thing is that
we've talked about like, you know, your oldest daughter,
Bridget, if I may say it, like she's so resilient, right?
I mean, I think Juliet will be too.
But like, we've talked about howall of this travel, I think has
given her this worldly perspective, if you will, where
it seems like she doesn't, she knows the world is much bigger
(14:11):
than her town in Long Island, right?
And so I'm going to guess that if she has a, you know, has a,
an argument with a friend in Long Island, she knows so much
that she has friends all over the world that she can connect
with. And so it fosters this beautiful
sense of, of meaning and really of, of strength for her so
(14:32):
early. So please talk more about that
'cause I think that that's a huge part of what you're giving
them. Maybe you're, you know, re
parenting or whatever in this like sense of inclusion, but
the. Deepest level, but there are.
So many beautiful parts of it. Yeah, go ahead.
Just. Like, just like what he said,
it's it's this. It's exactly that that I also
think that especially at this preteen age, I see that friends
(14:56):
are everything. I just saw this thing on
Instagram made me cry that it's you only have your kids real.
You're from zero to 10. You are the most important
person in your children's lives.You are their world.
Then I'm telling you, they turned 10 or a little bit before
even and their friends become their worlds.
And it's like goodbye, mom. And I see it my now my daughter,
(15:18):
her world is her are her friends, which is healthy, I
suppose. But just like you said this in
her little world, the stakes arevery high with her friendship.
So if we're somewhere and she gets in gets into a fight with a
friend, well, she has a whole other group of friends from
somewhere else. Like I feel like it's not like
(15:40):
all her eggs in one little basket where, you know, she's a
vast basket of all different places.
So it does, I feel like esteem wise it it it's adds a lot of
value, this big network that she's created.
So I love that because I feel like especially for girls,
esteem is so important self esteem.
(16:00):
So that's a a great product of all of this is is is that
network and all confidence building that she not like
everything in her little tiny world is make or break, you
know, can we? Talk about Bridget turning 10
and like how the family culture is maybe changing as you are as
you have one kid that maybe doesn't want to spend as much
(16:21):
time with you all. Yes, it's so weird.
And I keep thinking back to that10 was a big deal for me that my
parents got divorced when I was turning 10.
And so I don't, I haven't really, I've been thinking about
it, but I haven't really figuredout how that plays into my
relationship with her right now.But I do think that in her
(16:42):
parenting, like how we parent our kids at the stage they're
at, somehow we're like deep downthinking about ourselves at that
age. I couldn't agree.
I don't know. Yeah.
I just know that like at this age was very significant for me.
So I'm just like, OK, maybe you guys can figure this out.
Like for instance, I she's now like I said, preteen, but once
(17:06):
in a while because of like hormones or whatever, she gets
very like attitudy with me. Like she'll say something in a
tone and I just for some reason it's so triggering to me.
I don't know why I can't figure it out.
So if she says something where nothing horrible, he's not like
mom, I hate you. She'll be like, just say
something like God, come on, like don't you know that or
(17:28):
something? I get so triggered and I can't
figure it out, but it's just I'mscared because it's a glimpse
into the teenage years to come very shortly.
And I'm like, oh God, it's goingto be a rough time.
So I'm trying to, again, it's more about focusing on me and
(17:49):
why I'm having those feelings. Everything she's doing is really
normal. And of course I wanted to be
respectful, you know, and not going to be crazy, you know,
there has to be some level whereshe has to be a little respect.
But it's just so crazy how parenting is so much about self
introspection versus what your child is giving you.
(18:11):
It's really about why is this triggering me?
Why is this listening to what isnot healed within myself?
So it's it's a journey. But I do feel like 10 and what
has come have been even more challenging than the younger
years because the younger years are kind of like you do what I
(18:32):
say, I make rules and is it. But now they have opinions.
Now they weigh in. And she honestly, she makes
some, you know, she makes valid points.
Now I feel like I have a more valid contender and I think like
we maybe she's right. When you were little, it's like
you get, you know, go take a shower and because I said so and
that's it, You know, it was just, it's, it's every stage has
(18:55):
their new challenges, but I'm definitely frightened of the
upcoming one. You know, I'm just thinking
like, I know both of you pretty well.
And I would say that the two of you, at least in my
understanding, Greg and Jen, like both of you individuated
from your parents pretty significantly in the teenage
years. Well, Jen, maybe partially
because of the divorce in your family, like when you when I met
(19:16):
you, like I could tell that you had been mature for years.
I don't know how to say it. Do you know what I mean?
So I'd love to talk a little bitabout that.
And I wonder how that is going to influence the next chapter of
your parenting with with Bridgetand with Juliet as she grows,
too. Yeah.
That's a great question. Well, in my like, from my
(19:40):
perspective, I just felt like really strangely from 10 onward,
I felt like my home life is a little bit chaotic.
My parents got divorced and thenright away my dad got remarried
and with a woman and she had a daughter.
So now we had a new sister. Then shortly later my dad got
(20:03):
really sick. And then my mom got sick.
I just felt like for many years,my home life is very chaotic,
unpredictable. So I did feel and I and being
going back to the middle child episode, I'm very much a Jade.
So I also naturally, I think as a middle child was a little bit
(20:26):
forgotten. So being the middle child and
then with all the circumstances that paired together, I felt on
my own and I kind of was like, Igot to do my own thing and then
nobody's there to catch me. I have to make it happen for
myself. So I, I never was like, I don't
(20:48):
think a conscious decision, but I think deep down that was what
why I worked so hard academically.
I just didn't want to have to bereliant on anyone.
And for some reason, I always felt like a I didn't want to be
a burden. I felt like my parents had so
much on their plate and I didn'twant to be another burden to
them. So I was like, if I could take
(21:09):
care of myself and do everythingfor myself, like I don't have to
stress them out anymore than they already are with their own
shit. So that definitely, you know,
will dictated my personality in many ways.
And with my children, luckily, it's like almost
(21:30):
circumstantially, it's like the complete opposite.
My husband and I are so available to the kids.
We don't have a lot going on. So I think we're so there for
them. And it's interesting.
I almost feel like the way it informs my parenting is that
sometimes when my kids are upsetwith me, I get extra angry with
(21:54):
them because I'm like, with everything we've given you and
all these amazing circumstances you created, and like, how could
you still be upset? It's like, I would have killed
to have this when I was young. And I mean, this is, again, this
is all like subconscious, which is I'm trying to like, you know,
sort through it. But yeah, I think it maybe
(22:17):
informs it in that way a little bit that like almost like a how
dare you not be like over the moon.
You know, I if I've I've only, Ihad this stability growing up
like that, what I could have done or whatever, right?
But again, it's all relative. And again, with parenting you,
it's really, I think I what I'm constantly trying to do is sort
(22:39):
out what's, you know, what I'm dealing with my children like
sort out what's my shit and thenwhat's what's, what's theirs and
what's appropriate and what's being triggered in me right now.
So yeah, it's interesting. I and I'm good things to think
about. That was a good question.
(23:01):
I love. Your answer.
Thank you. I love you so much.
You're so I mean, when Jen talksabout like, you know, leaning
into academics, this is a girl that got like what a full ride
to NYU and a four point O and the highest like results ever in
NYU Med school. She's not joking.
Like this is not this is like next level threw herself into
academics. This is we are witnessing a
(23:22):
brilliant human being over Zoom right now.
Again, I looked at my like my motivation.
Why was I such a gunner? Why was I like had to get any
and everything and again I I still don't know a picture.
I don't know but but. But but, but I do know it came
(23:44):
from a place of maybe like not enoughness.
Like that's how I got my word. I don't know.
But whatever it is, it it. Even though the results were
great, the motivations were not like psychologically sound for
(24:05):
sure. You know.
It wasn't, it was anything in extreme is going to be, you
know, not not well motivated. So I always examine that as well
as why, why am I pushing myself so hard for something?
And they're so usually because again, what Italy has probably
taught me the most is moderation.
(24:26):
Everything in moderation, balance.
These people are masters at it. They eat pizza, pizza and pasta
every day and drink every day, sometimes at every meal.
But unple. But that's.
Beautiful that you have the opportunity to learn and to
model moderation for your familythere.
Yes. Oh, and another thing I was
going to say is that a great model has been, you know, we've
(24:49):
been, I've been trying to learn Italian.
I speak Spanish from my mother being Mexican.
So. But since we've gotten here,
I've gone to Italian school. I had an Italian tutor, so
that's been really fun for the kids to watch me learn something
new. Yes.
So, you know, I commiserate withthem about homework.
I'm like, oh, I have Italian homework.
(25:10):
I really don't want to do it, but I'll do it.
And then, you know, side by sidewith them.
And just seeing, I think a parent learning and struggling
with a new task is really a valuable lesson as well.
And I think getting that in a foreign country is, you know,
another cool benefit. Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean, we talked a lot about
alignment and what that can looklike in the family.
(25:30):
And I think all of you embarkingon this journey together, one,
just being in Italy together andthat sense of adventure, but 2
going through similar struggles around learning that's that is
very cool and feels like very connecting.
Yes, And even just simple thingslike where do I buy, You know,
this in Rome and you know, we all set out on an adventure
(25:51):
together. Like Mom doesn't know any better
than you do. I'm like, do you guys have any
ideas? You know, so cool.
A lot of. Scavenger Hunt esque escapades
here, that's for sure. That's.
That's huge. I love that.
That's great. Before we let you go in your
travels, I think this is probably 2 questions.
(26:12):
The 1st is what is in the zeitgeist in the international
ambitious family community, right?
Like what are people in? In the US, there's a lot of
protect our children from screens.
You're surrounded by international families of means,
I'm sure that are ambitious thatthat have done well in the
(26:32):
world. You know, what are they talking
about? What are they worried about for
their kids? What are they protective over?
And also what are they exploringthat might not be things that
that we're necessarily tuned into?
So what I've seen is in Americanparents that I know are much
more intentional about how theirchildren are being raised and
(26:58):
are just very thoughtful about what's going on, what their
children are exposed to, what they're doing, constantly
signing them up for activities, making sure they're, you know,
engaged and active and staying ahead and what college you're
going to go to, even though they're three years old.
And so in Italy, I don't see that at all.
(27:21):
Right. But what the conversation, it's
not even conversation. It's more they're just so smart,
steeped in tradition. So it's more that this is how my
Nona raised me. This is how I raised my
daughter. This is how we this is just how
we do it. It's less of a conversation
about and especially it's still very true to at least here.
(27:45):
I don't speak about Rome, where I am in Rome, it's still very
traditional minded. So we always say it's a big
city, but we always say really it's like a provincial town.
So the, the, I even find that the between men and women, like
it's a man's town. You know, it's still very much
(28:07):
they dress the man, everything'scatered to the man and the
woman. You know, it's it's it's very
old school in many ways. And I think with children, it's
not they're not thinking nearly as much.
You're not as preoccupied with what's what their children are
doing. The future of them just now what
(28:28):
got report cards and the one of the mothers was like, the grades
don't matter anyway. Don't worry about it.
Who cares? Like they're just I don't know.
And this is these are like at the top schools at the top.
And not to say that they don't care about grades or certainly
it's not in generalization, but the point is, is that they're
the parents are definitely not over focused on what their kids
(28:49):
are doing. It's more like the parents are
having dinner in here, the kids are playing in there and what
they what they choose to do. Like it's just like out of
sight, out of mind. That's the impression I've
gotten. And then?
Part 2 of the question is, is there anything from your
experiences, your bonds with these families that you've taken
into your family culture, whether it's a saying or a new
(29:12):
way of thinking or you know, anything like that?
Definitely. I wasn't I was pretty good at
this already, but I've gotten even better.
They love my favorite saying here is Dolce Barniente, which
means the pleasure of doing nothing.
So in America, I especially as soon as I land in New York, I
feel like I'm like, OK, like, how can we maximize efficiency
(29:33):
That what do I have at 1:20? What do I have to do later?
What do I have to sign up to getlike?
I would just be like a little robot the stuck in I land I get
here. It's like it's just a different
mindset and it's the focus is not on productivity, It's not on
efficiency. It's about enjoying your life,
enjoying your family, enjoying fine food and wine that's fresh
(29:57):
and local. And I just it really agrees with
me. And I also think that it's is a
nice challenge for me because I,I mean, I still have my planner
here. I'm, I still have my like, you
know, things that I'm like that,like there's urges to be like
super efficient, organized, which of course have their
(30:19):
benefits. But this challenges need to kind
of say, OK, I can like sit back and breathe a little bit and
everything's going to be OK. And keep everything in
perspective too. That you know to always keep in
mind what truly matters in life and that anything can change,
especially with our times today,like you see, things can change
(30:39):
in a second. So I think you'll never regret
keeping those priorities of Stanley lice at the forefront.
So this this is definitely conducive for that message.
So I I love that. I love.
That too. Well, thank you so so much.
This has been. Wonderful.
I love you. I'm so grateful for you.
(30:59):
Awesome. Yay.
That sounds great. Wonderful.
OK. All right.
Thanks, John. Thank.
You bye.
Welcome to a new segment we're calling Teamit Teammates, where
we bring on friends of the podcast to share what family
culture looks like in their homes today.
Our first guest is my dear friend of nearly two decades,
the brilliant and beautiful Jennifer Zelven.
Jen is so smart and thoughtful while also being silly and a
true adventurer. I just love her and I've learned
(00:23):
so much from her over the years and I'm thrilled that she is
here to talk about what family culture looks like in her world
right now. Hi, Jen.
Hi, what a beautiful intro. Thank you.
All from the heart. I love you so much.
Yeah. So to get us started, can you
describe your family to us, who you are, and anything else that
(00:43):
you think we should know? Sure.
Well, I come from quite a blended family.
My husband and I have been married now we just celebrated
11 years and between us we have four children but two of them
are in their early 20s now. They're from his first marriage
but my husband in a unique situation, has full custody of
(01:06):
them. So when I met him they were 10
and 12 so they grew up in our household so they're pretty much
like children to me. And then we had two of our own 2
little girls a few years later and they are now 5 and 10.
So all four of us, I mean, or all six of us now live all
(01:27):
together. And we recently in the last few
years, made a major change wherewe were located in New York
forever. Both my husband and I born and
raised in New York. And during COVID, we kind of saw
that we can be anywhere. So we kind of got the crazy
idea. We say, what are we doing here
in cold New York, which we love,but, you know, we want to extend
(01:51):
our horizons. Life is short.
So we decided to pick up and move our whole clan over to
Italy. So we landed in Rome and we've
been here for the last three years now, on and off for six
months. So we'll do six months in New
York, six months in Rome. And this is now our third year
doing it. And we're actually all packed up
and ready to go back tomorrow. So you caught us on a funny time
(02:16):
when we're in such a transition between the two countries, but
that's been our situation as of late.
I love that. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah, so I feel like it's kind of the most perfectly imperfect
time to talk to you then as far as like how you navigate.
So would love to hear wherever you want to go, but like how it
is how the Zelman's are in Rome versus how they are in the
(02:38):
Hamptons kind of thing and how you manage it all.
Yeah, well, it's, I mean, it's definitely best of all worlds.
I think both New York and Rome have so many different things to
offer. But a lot of times people say,
why Rome? Neither Robert nor I are
(03:00):
Italian. My mother's from Mexico.
My husband is Eastern European Jewish descent.
So Rome doesn't really make sense in any, you know, logical
way. But we said, OK, we want to be
somewhere in Europe and we wanted somewhere with good
weather. We both love the sun.
(03:20):
So we were thinking between Spain and Rome and Rome kind of
just fell into place. We had a great found a great
school, we found a great apartment and we always thought
it would be a one time thing. So it's kind of like a a study
abroad, you know, like a family wise.
But we did it one year we fell so in love.
(03:41):
So we can't imagine not coming back.
So we did it again. Again, we said definitely not
coming back. That's it.
Like we have to. There's lots of going on in New
York. Here we are again, third year,
and already we're talking about coming back next year.
Because I would say the most important reasons are the
(04:02):
friends we've made, of course, through school, having young
kids in school and going to a new country.
You meet so many parents throughschool.
And what I love is that we send the kids to an International
School so they have so much exposure to Italian children
because I think a huge percentage of the school are
Italian, but the rest of the percentage are kids from all
over the world. So my daughters have friends
(04:24):
from Nigeria, Singapore, Japan, like just the name of you.
So the exposure to other cultures is so tremendous and
it's such a gift to them. If that's something really
special that we don't get in NewYork where we live in this
little suburban bubble, which has its, you know, great aspects
as well. But anyway, being at this
(04:45):
International School meeting, the people we're meeting is so
nice because these people that we've been meeting, a lot of
times, they're also on their ownhere in Rome.
So they're really open socially.They're really open to making
connections. So I feel like our social life
here is incredible. You know, everybody's so in New
York, people kind of have their own thing from years past from
(05:07):
this, you know, friends from thecity.
And here everybody's open and wants to hang out, wants to get
to know you and learn about yourculture.
So that's really cool as a family that we all get to
experience. Also, of course, you'd have to
mention the food, the food quality.
Instead of giving my kids bags of goldfish, I'm giving them
brushed prosciutto and parmesan cheese.
(05:29):
It's just the food. The level of food is so
spectacular that that's for me ahuge drop.
And our ability to travel while we're here is also great.
Are we were in Egypt so easily for 10 days.
It's a 3 hour flight. We travel on the almost every
(05:51):
other weekend to different European countries and it is so
simple. Even travelling within Italy, we
hop on a train and each region, Italy is so unique and
different. The cuisine is different, the
people are different, even the dialect.
Sometimes there's mountains, sea, cities.
It's just the exposure we have being in the central location.
(06:13):
Italy is so awesome with no timechanges many times to deal with,
which for families and young children is huge.
So I really though they're just some of the reasons why we find
the quality of life here in Romeso great.
Other things I know about you and Robert is that you both
really value travel, and I feel like from the moment the two of
(06:34):
you met, travel was a huge part of your life.
How has that changed and how hasit stayed the same since you had
kids? Like, how do you bring them
along in that family, culture, love of travel?
It's so funny because I rememberlike back in the day when
Danielle and I were young and wild and travelling abroad and
(06:54):
travelling every weekend and, you know, studying in London.
We, I remember thinking in my mind like, Oh my God, I had to
get everything out of my system now and do all the travelling
because once I get married and once I have kids, it's all over.
Like I'm never travelling again or it's going to be decades
until I can travel again. But it's funny how the universe
works because the complete opposite happened.
(07:15):
Now, since I've had kids, I've never travelled so much in my
entire life. So being here, it's just gone up
10 times. Travel for us is, I think, here
to stay. It's definitely not slowing
down, that's for sure. And as far as the children, each
country I feel like as a different level of how much they
welcome children. So luckily in Italy they're so
(07:38):
welcoming to children. So that's made it very easy.
Other countries you go to are not so welcoming to children.
So it's also you have to pick and choose where you go if
that's a concern, if you have little ones, because that can
make or break a trip. I had friends who just went to
Japan with little ones and they were like, no, they said they
are not. It's a culture of politeness, of
(08:00):
orderliness. So not so toddler friendly.
So if you do have those little ones, Italy is a great one, the
Netherlands it is. Certain places I feel like are
you would have an easier time. So picking strategically is
good, yeah. That's really great advice, Jen.
(08:21):
You mentioned the friends, the food and the proximity to other
places are the things that you and Robert really value.
And obviously the kids are goingto value those things too
because they're having these newexperiences with new people.
The food is, you know, goes without saying, but then
actually the the travel in and of itself for the kids, that
(08:44):
travel represents a certain value to you and Robert about
seeing the world. What I noticed with our kids is
that there's some story that needs to be woven in about the
adventure. And it's usually not the same
story that Danielle and I care about.
So I'm just curious, how do you prepare the family?
How do you prepare for travel tonew places to get everyone on
(09:06):
the same page about the same enthusiastic page, even if it's
not for the same reasons? Yeah, I guess we don't make a
big thing like I want them this to be the exposure to new
cultures and landing in new places.
I want that to be their normal. So I don't want to make it a big
thing that like when we see people who do things
(09:28):
differently, I don't want them to be shocked and alarmed.
Like I want them to be open minded enough to be have that
flexibility of seeing new thingsand seeing new people and
customs and not being shocked and odd and being like, Oh, I
want to just know that things can be done differently.
So honestly, we, I don't, we kind of, I don't really give
them much prep anywhere we go. And I just let them kind of
(09:50):
experience it because a lot of times I feel like when I over
prepare them for things, it's somuch of me projecting my stuff
onto them. They're like a blank slate.
And they I think are born naturally open.
And I don't want to teach them anything or even put ideas in
their head. So I feel like naturally they
(10:10):
just are so absorbed. Like they just absorbed things.
Like for instance, like when we were in like Dubai, we had a
babysitter come and you know, she comes in a, in a burger and
you know, she's asking are thereany men in the house?
And like, and I didn't say anything to the kids to even
prepare them. And they don't, they don't think
(10:32):
anything of it. They're like, oh, she's like, I
don't know. They just say things that are,
they don't make a big issue out of it.
They have questions sometimes, but they're asked in a way where
it's just out of curiosity. It's not like looking down or
afraid. And I don't want them to be
scared and I want them to have that flexible mindset.
(10:55):
And I feel like all this troublehas made them very flexible and
open minded and I'm very happy for that.
I feel like I can drop them anywhere and they would be OK.
I want to circle back to this idea that you mentioned about
the girls having an appreciationfor all types of cultures and
just considering that normal youand I both life psychology and I
(11:16):
would love to know like if you were to psychoanalyze that goal
of yours or that value of yours,where do you think that comes
from? It's.
A great question. It's a beautiful.
Priority, but it's a very specific 1 great question.
No, and honestly, I what popped into my head, I never thought
about that. Like why I put so much.
(11:36):
I think I just thought of something that could be
relevant. So where I grew up, you know, in
suburban town in Westchester and, and then where I've, where
I found he lives in New York nowa little suburb in Long Island
similarities where it's kind of like a bubble.
Everybody, 99% of the student bodies, the same background, 99%
(11:58):
huge percentage are a huge are like the same background.
So this exposure to other cultures is very important to
me. And I think maybe is that
growing up, I, I was where I am,my mother's from Mexico, my
father's Jewish. So I always felt a little bit
(12:22):
like an outsider culturally. Like I always felt weird that
not weird, but just different and not necessarily belonging
that my mom, you know, didn't speak English without an accent.
I was the only Jewish kid reallyto speak of and I with the last
(12:44):
name Schwartz, there was no hiding it.
So I feel like I always felt like I stuck and I think this
was just my an illusion, but I always felt different because of
these cultural background differences.
So maybe it's something linked to that where I want, I always
(13:05):
wanted to feel inclusive. So I want my children, I guess,
to the includers. Yeah, that makes sense.
A lot of sense thought of it. That's so weird.
Yeah. But the maybe that's why it's a
the whole sense of belonging. And I want them to.
Not only that, but I want them to treat others how I wanted to
(13:28):
be treated. That makes a lot of sense.
Makes a lot of. Sense, yeah.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah, I think about also. Am I?
Using my kids as like a tool to heal my aren't.
We all please. Do you?
Think that you are exempt from that.
No, yeah. OK.
(13:49):
No, I think. It's beautiful.
No, that's not true. Because the other thing is that
we've talked about like, you know, your oldest daughter,
Bridget, if I may say it, like she's so resilient, right?
I mean, I think Juliet will be too.
But like, we've talked about howall of this travel, I think has
given her this worldly perspective, if you will, where
it seems like she doesn't, she knows the world is much bigger
(14:11):
than her town in Long Island, right?
And so I'm going to guess that if she has a, you know, has a,
an argument with a friend in Long Island, she knows so much
that she has friends all over the world that she can connect
with. And so it fosters this beautiful
sense of, of meaning and really of, of strength for her so
(14:32):
early. So please talk more about that
'cause I think that that's a huge part of what you're giving
them. Maybe you're, you know, re
parenting or whatever in this like sense of inclusion, but
the. Deepest level, but there are.
So many beautiful parts of it. Yeah, go ahead.
Just. Like, just like what he said,
it's it's this. It's exactly that that I also
think that especially at this preteen age, I see that friends
(14:56):
are everything. I just saw this thing on
Instagram made me cry that it's you only have your kids real.
You're from zero to 10. You are the most important
person in your children's lives.You are their world.
Then I'm telling you, they turned 10 or a little bit before
even and their friends become their worlds.
And it's like goodbye, mom. And I see it my now my daughter,
(15:18):
her world is her are her friends, which is healthy, I
suppose. But just like you said this in
her little world, the stakes arevery high with her friendship.
So if we're somewhere and she gets in gets into a fight with a
friend, well, she has a whole other group of friends from
somewhere else. Like I feel like it's not like
(15:40):
all her eggs in one little basket where, you know, she's a
vast basket of all different places.
So it does, I feel like esteem wise it it it's adds a lot of
value, this big network that she's created.
So I love that because I feel like especially for girls,
esteem is so important self esteem.
(16:00):
So that's a a great product of all of this is is is that
network and all confidence building that she not like
everything in her little tiny world is make or break, you
know, can we? Talk about Bridget turning 10
and like how the family culture is maybe changing as you are as
you have one kid that maybe doesn't want to spend as much
(16:21):
time with you all. Yes, it's so weird.
And I keep thinking back to that10 was a big deal for me that my
parents got divorced when I was turning 10.
And so I don't, I haven't really, I've been thinking about
it, but I haven't really figuredout how that plays into my
relationship with her right now.But I do think that in her
(16:42):
parenting, like how we parent our kids at the stage they're
at, somehow we're like deep downthinking about ourselves at that
age. I couldn't agree.
I don't know. Yeah.
I just know that like at this age was very significant for me.
So I'm just like, OK, maybe you guys can figure this out.
Like for instance, I she's now like I said, preteen, but once
(17:06):
in a while because of like hormones or whatever, she gets
very like attitudy with me. Like she'll say something in a
tone and I just for some reason it's so triggering to me.
I don't know why I can't figure it out.
So if she says something where nothing horrible, he's not like
mom, I hate you. She'll be like, just say
something like God, come on, like don't you know that or
(17:28):
something? I get so triggered and I can't
figure it out, but it's just I'mscared because it's a glimpse
into the teenage years to come very shortly.
And I'm like, oh God, it's goingto be a rough time.
So I'm trying to, again, it's more about focusing on me and
(17:49):
why I'm having those feelings. Everything she's doing is really
normal. And of course I wanted to be
respectful, you know, and not going to be crazy, you know,
there has to be some level whereshe has to be a little respect.
But it's just so crazy how parenting is so much about self
introspection versus what your child is giving you.
(18:11):
It's really about why is this triggering me?
Why is this listening to what isnot healed within myself?
So it's it's a journey. But I do feel like 10 and what
has come have been even more challenging than the younger
years because the younger years are kind of like you do what I
(18:32):
say, I make rules and is it. But now they have opinions.
Now they weigh in. And she honestly, she makes
some, you know, she makes valid points.
Now I feel like I have a more valid contender and I think like
we maybe she's right. When you were little, it's like
you get, you know, go take a shower and because I said so and
that's it, You know, it was just, it's, it's every stage has
(18:55):
their new challenges, but I'm definitely frightened of the
upcoming one. You know, I'm just thinking
like, I know both of you pretty well.
And I would say that the two of you, at least in my
understanding, Greg and Jen, like both of you individuated
from your parents pretty significantly in the teenage
years. Well, Jen, maybe partially
because of the divorce in your family, like when you when I met
(19:16):
you, like I could tell that you had been mature for years.
I don't know how to say it. Do you know what I mean?
So I'd love to talk a little bitabout that.
And I wonder how that is going to influence the next chapter of
your parenting with with Bridgetand with Juliet as she grows,
too. Yeah.
That's a great question. Well, in my like, from my
(19:40):
perspective, I just felt like really strangely from 10 onward,
I felt like my home life is a little bit chaotic.
My parents got divorced and thenright away my dad got remarried
and with a woman and she had a daughter.
So now we had a new sister. Then shortly later my dad got
(20:03):
really sick. And then my mom got sick.
I just felt like for many years,my home life is very chaotic,
unpredictable. So I did feel and I and being
going back to the middle child episode, I'm very much a Jade.
So I also naturally, I think as a middle child was a little bit
(20:26):
forgotten. So being the middle child and
then with all the circumstances that paired together, I felt on
my own and I kind of was like, Igot to do my own thing and then
nobody's there to catch me. I have to make it happen for
myself. So I, I never was like, I don't
(20:48):
think a conscious decision, but I think deep down that was what
why I worked so hard academically.
I just didn't want to have to bereliant on anyone.
And for some reason, I always felt like a I didn't want to be
a burden. I felt like my parents had so
much on their plate and I didn'twant to be another burden to
them. So I was like, if I could take
(21:09):
care of myself and do everythingfor myself, like I don't have to
stress them out anymore than they already are with their own
shit. So that definitely, you know,
will dictated my personality in many ways.
And with my children, luckily, it's like almost
(21:30):
circumstantially, it's like the complete opposite.
My husband and I are so available to the kids.
We don't have a lot going on. So I think we're so there for
them. And it's interesting.
I almost feel like the way it informs my parenting is that
sometimes when my kids are upsetwith me, I get extra angry with
(21:54):
them because I'm like, with everything we've given you and
all these amazing circumstances you created, and like, how could
you still be upset? It's like, I would have killed
to have this when I was young. And I mean, this is, again, this
is all like subconscious, which is I'm trying to like, you know,
sort through it. But yeah, I think it maybe
(22:17):
informs it in that way a little bit that like almost like a how
dare you not be like over the moon.
You know, I if I've I've only, Ihad this stability growing up
like that, what I could have done or whatever, right?
But again, it's all relative. And again, with parenting you,
it's really, I think I what I'm constantly trying to do is sort
(22:39):
out what's, you know, what I'm dealing with my children like
sort out what's my shit and thenwhat's what's, what's theirs and
what's appropriate and what's being triggered in me right now.
So yeah, it's interesting. I and I'm good things to think
about. That was a good question.
(23:01):
I love. Your answer.
Thank you. I love you so much.
You're so I mean, when Jen talksabout like, you know, leaning
into academics, this is a girl that got like what a full ride
to NYU and a four point O and the highest like results ever in
NYU Med school. She's not joking.
Like this is not this is like next level threw herself into
academics. This is we are witnessing a
(23:22):
brilliant human being over Zoom right now.
Again, I looked at my like my motivation.
Why was I such a gunner? Why was I like had to get any
and everything and again I I still don't know a picture.
I don't know but but. But but, but I do know it came
(23:44):
from a place of maybe like not enoughness.
Like that's how I got my word. I don't know.
But whatever it is, it it. Even though the results were
great, the motivations were not like psychologically sound for
(24:05):
sure. You know.
It wasn't, it was anything in extreme is going to be, you
know, not not well motivated. So I always examine that as well
as why, why am I pushing myself so hard for something?
And they're so usually because again, what Italy has probably
taught me the most is moderation.
(24:26):
Everything in moderation, balance.
These people are masters at it. They eat pizza, pizza and pasta
every day and drink every day, sometimes at every meal.
But unple. But that's.
Beautiful that you have the opportunity to learn and to
model moderation for your familythere.
Yes. Oh, and another thing I was
going to say is that a great model has been, you know, we've
(24:49):
been, I've been trying to learn Italian.
I speak Spanish from my mother being Mexican.
So. But since we've gotten here,
I've gone to Italian school. I had an Italian tutor, so
that's been really fun for the kids to watch me learn something
new. Yes.
So, you know, I commiserate withthem about homework.
I'm like, oh, I have Italian homework.
(25:10):
I really don't want to do it, but I'll do it.
And then, you know, side by sidewith them.
And just seeing, I think a parent learning and struggling
with a new task is really a valuable lesson as well.
And I think getting that in a foreign country is, you know,
another cool benefit. Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean, we talked a lot about
alignment and what that can looklike in the family.
(25:30):
And I think all of you embarkingon this journey together, one,
just being in Italy together andthat sense of adventure, but 2
going through similar struggles around learning that's that is
very cool and feels like very connecting.
Yes, And even just simple thingslike where do I buy, You know,
this in Rome and you know, we all set out on an adventure
(25:51):
together. Like Mom doesn't know any better
than you do. I'm like, do you guys have any
ideas? You know, so cool.
A lot of. Scavenger Hunt esque escapades
here, that's for sure. That's.
That's huge. I love that.
That's great. Before we let you go in your
travels, I think this is probably 2 questions.
(26:12):
The 1st is what is in the zeitgeist in the international
ambitious family community, right?
Like what are people in? In the US, there's a lot of
protect our children from screens.
You're surrounded by international families of means,
I'm sure that are ambitious thatthat have done well in the
(26:32):
world. You know, what are they talking
about? What are they worried about for
their kids? What are they protective over?
And also what are they exploringthat might not be things that
that we're necessarily tuned into?
So what I've seen is in Americanparents that I know are much
more intentional about how theirchildren are being raised and
(26:58):
are just very thoughtful about what's going on, what their
children are exposed to, what they're doing, constantly
signing them up for activities, making sure they're, you know,
engaged and active and staying ahead and what college you're
going to go to, even though they're three years old.
And so in Italy, I don't see that at all.
(27:21):
Right. But what the conversation, it's
not even conversation. It's more they're just so smart,
steeped in tradition. So it's more that this is how my
Nona raised me. This is how I raised my
daughter. This is how we this is just how
we do it. It's less of a conversation
about and especially it's still very true to at least here.
(27:45):
I don't speak about Rome, where I am in Rome, it's still very
traditional minded. So we always say it's a big
city, but we always say really it's like a provincial town.
So the, the, I even find that the between men and women, like
it's a man's town. You know, it's still very much
(28:07):
they dress the man, everything'scatered to the man and the
woman. You know, it's it's it's very
old school in many ways. And I think with children, it's
not they're not thinking nearly as much.
You're not as preoccupied with what's what their children are
doing. The future of them just now what
(28:28):
got report cards and the one of the mothers was like, the grades
don't matter anyway. Don't worry about it.
Who cares? Like they're just I don't know.
And this is these are like at the top schools at the top.
And not to say that they don't care about grades or certainly
it's not in generalization, but the point is, is that they're
the parents are definitely not over focused on what their kids
(28:49):
are doing. It's more like the parents are
having dinner in here, the kids are playing in there and what
they what they choose to do. Like it's just like out of
sight, out of mind. That's the impression I've
gotten. And then?
Part 2 of the question is, is there anything from your
experiences, your bonds with these families that you've taken
into your family culture, whether it's a saying or a new
(29:12):
way of thinking or you know, anything like that?
Definitely. I wasn't I was pretty good at
this already, but I've gotten even better.
They love my favorite saying here is Dolce Barniente, which
means the pleasure of doing nothing.
So in America, I especially as soon as I land in New York, I
feel like I'm like, OK, like, how can we maximize efficiency
(29:33):
That what do I have at 1:20? What do I have to do later?
What do I have to sign up to getlike?
I would just be like a little robot the stuck in I land I get
here. It's like it's just a different
mindset and it's the focus is not on productivity, It's not on
efficiency. It's about enjoying your life,
enjoying your family, enjoying fine food and wine that's fresh
(29:57):
and local. And I just it really agrees with
me. And I also think that it's is a
nice challenge for me because I,I mean, I still have my planner
here. I'm, I still have my like, you
know, things that I'm like that,like there's urges to be like
super efficient, organized, which of course have their
(30:19):
benefits. But this challenges need to kind
of say, OK, I can like sit back and breathe a little bit and
everything's going to be OK. And keep everything in
perspective too. That you know to always keep in
mind what truly matters in life and that anything can change,
especially with our times today,like you see, things can change
(30:39):
in a second. So I think you'll never regret
keeping those priorities of Stanley lice at the forefront.
So this this is definitely conducive for that message.
So I I love that. I love.
That too. Well, thank you so so much.
This has been. Wonderful.
I love you. I'm so grateful for you.
(30:59):
Awesome. Yay.
That sounds great. Wonderful.
OK. All right.
Thanks, John. Thank.
You bye.
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