Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Did the Mayo come? Of course.
OK, great. Did you?
Did you put the salt in the saltin the thing all time?
Yeah. Oh, OK, great.
Things get done. Things are getting done.
Yeah, I mean, our system don't have to worry.
(00:20):
Welcome back to The Most Important Thing.
I'm Danielle. And I'm Greg, and together we're
exploring family, culture and leadership at home.
So we're calling today's episodeHow we Divide, Conquer and
Connect the shared operating system behind our marriage.
And while we've been together for a decade and started some of
these things right in fits and starts, today we're going to
(00:42):
share our framework for how we talk about the things that need
to get done. But we don't necessarily want to
talk about them in the middle ofthe kitchen or right before bed
or me screaming Craig while I'm in the shower, right?
Which? Is legitimately what used to end
up happening. Yeah, yeah.
(01:02):
And still. Does happen a little bit
sometimes. I love this topic because I just
think that it's so great to be able to look back and say we've
got these foundations, we've gotthis, these systems to a point
where we can now share them and other people can copy ours
because like, I copied so many people on the way here.
So true, or at least take ours as like a bad first draft,
(01:24):
right? Because I think that most of our
listeners have certainly their own system, right?
And we're all competent in our own worlds.
I can like speak for myself and say that I have my own system
that starts at 5:00 AM and ends at 8:00 PM.
Where is your schedule is is on the later side of that.
And so this is really about where our two systems overlap
(01:46):
app and how to create a shared system.
That assumes that we talk about really shared leadership, right?
That assumes that we talk about the things that we need to talk
about and where we need support,and then we trust each other
that those things will get done in our own way.
Correct, right? 1 + 1 = 3.
Yeah. And so, like you said, today's
(02:07):
framework is our framework subject to further change and
development, but it's one that we're sharing not because it's a
magic pill, but because we thinkthat it's worthwhile to give you
something to something to hold onto.
Totally. And in preparation for this
episode, we did some digging into research, and there's a ton
(02:30):
of science that backs what we'retalking about today and how
important all this is. Yeah.
So should we get into that? Absolutely.
OK, great. So I did a little bit of
research around kind of the business and and psychological
takeaways, right. So from business, this really
what we're talking about here today is shared leadership.
And one of the key aspects of shared leadership is regular
(02:53):
meetings to on specific topics to build trust, alignment and
connection. Right.
And then kind of translating that at home.
John Gottman and the Gottman Institute has done a lot of
research about couples who establish rituals of connection
reporting higher relationship satisfaction.
(03:15):
And So what does that mean? Rituals of connection doesn't
just have to be, you know, a date night or a long walk.
It can also just be connecting on topics where if you show up
and I show up prepared and present and ready to take
something off one another's plate or or catch a ball that's
(03:36):
in the air, that I mean, I can speak for myself and say that
that is actually the most connecting thing.
The the times where I have felt overwhelmed by something as
little as who gets the meat out of the freezer.
Oh, before bed so that it's defrosted for the morning and
you being able to do that for me.
(03:57):
Now every morning I get up out of and I look at the fridge and
I'm like, oh, Greg prepared thatfor me.
Greg thought about our system the night before and now I'm
ready. It's like a little assembly
line, right? And so now I'm ready to take it
the next step. Yeah, I like the assembly line
(04:17):
analogy 'cause that's what a lotof the work around here is.
I do it, you do it, we do it. Like depends on so many
different things with the kids versus things with the house
versus, you know, the car needs whatever it needs.
Like all of these things just show up and we don't know when
they're going to show up. But it's nice to have a system
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to organize them and put them incompartments so that like, if
you're thinking about something and I'm and I don't have space
for that, like we know when we're going to talk about it.
It's not like, oh, Greg, I was just thinking about this thing
that's going to derail your entire day.
Yeah, which is so important for us because we live together, we
work together, we and we work from home and we share three
(05:01):
children together, right. So we have a lot of moving
pieces that could easily, and I think this is what happened
during COVID where we had workedtogether for a while, but we
hadn't worked together at home in the presence of our children
until 2020. Right.
And so as someone who loves structured communication, but
(05:23):
then sometimes gets a little offwith it, 'cause I have,
especially when I'm caffeinated,have like random thoughts like
this morning, I truly was about to ask you about corporate
venture capital on our bike, on the bike this morning at 8:00 AM
when I was doing my warm up. And I'm like, wait, no stop.
We talked about that on Friday. And so a lot of this is kind of
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translating because we had to since we work together and live
together, translating some of the core operating principles
that we have in working togetherin the business world, in the
venture capital world to our home, right.
And so I think we should maybe just give an overview of what
we're talking about and then we can get into some of the other
(06:06):
reasons to do it and. How we do it?
I I agree. If I'm, if I'm listening right
now, I want to know, OK, guys, what's your plan?
How does it look like? What?
Buckle up. What are you in for?
Yeah. OK.
So we thought it would make the most sense to talk higher,
highest level down to the minutia.
So on a very high level, we tendto have three to five year
(06:30):
vision conversations and then wehave and those are I would call
them more sporadic like I don't know how often would you say
that we have those. Well, I would say that we check
in on those in in a way we're checking on in on them annually
to see how we're doing against those.
But we're not really changing them at all.
(06:51):
Like we might tweak a little bitor say, hey, let's focus a
little bit more here because youknow, we already we bought this
house. So like check, right?
You know, let's focus a little bit more on socialization, like
on entertaining or something. Like that?
Still to be done, but like, but,you know, those things don't
really change. And that's three to five year
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vision. The reason that we call it
vision is because like it's there's no, there's no like set
goal right there. It's like, what do we want to
what do we want to look back andand say that we're we're really
proud of. Yeah.
And then on a quarterly basis, we each have our own personal
goals and then we we share thosewith one another and really
(07:36):
support each other in making them happen.
I would say rather than actuallyme doing something for you, it's
about allocating space and time.And then the other thing we do
on a quarterly basis is our quarterly investment meeting.
So we review our budget and investments and then on a weekly
basis we talk about logistics. So every Thursday morning we
(07:58):
have what we call our stand up and we talk about the things
that need to happen over the next 7 to 10 days.
That stand up is like, it's verylogistics focused.
It's but, but the first thing that we always check in on is
one another. Yeah.
And then we have a daily tasks system that we share as well.
So that's an outline of our framework.
(08:20):
And I think let's get into it. It's three to five year vision.
I'm going to let you take this one because it's really your
baby. Yeah, three to five year vision
is it's my baby to documents, but I'm really just listening.
I'm I'm listening to myself and I'm listening to you and I'm
listening to our kids about whatit is that we actually care
about and what we want to accomplish.
(08:43):
And taking inventory of what we have good leads us to where we
want to spend more time. And so like taking risks, taking
more risks was actually the big thing that came out of that
conversation. And I think the most important
thing is a risk that we are taking.
Sure. And is a big risk, right?
But but some of the other thingsthat came out of that were
serving community, right, and spending more time with family.
(09:07):
It wasn't just about building family culture, it was about
spending more time with family that we have.
So I think that there's a lot ofgood that comes out of these
conversations. And then once we have that as
our North Star, it's pretty easyto calibrate what we need to be
doing on a quarterly basis to toget towards those goals.
When was the last one before that that you have written down?
(09:28):
The last one would have been February 15th, 2020.
Oh wow, so these really are fiveyear vision setting exercises
and is that did we do that at the Mexican restaurant with jade
and the bassinet? That would make sense, yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly when that happens.
(09:48):
OK. And we, we crushed those things.
I mean, we, we did not know how we were going to get to those
things. But what we had said then is we
want a home where we can entertain family rituals and
rituals for the two of us, the pursuit of self-directed
learning and engagement in that community.
(10:08):
And to find a 'cause we care deeply about to teach our
children about giving back and unifying us on principles.
That's what we came up with in February 2020.
Cool. Pretty cool.
Quite a circuitous path, I know,I always say.
Like if you had told me on February 15th, 2020 that I was
(10:29):
going to have a third child in less than two years born at Boca
Regional Hospital in Boca Raton,FL, I would have thought you
were nuts. Like there was no way that any
of those things were happening. No.
And here we are. I know, and here we are.
And here we are. It's really cool because I
honestly, I feel like you are better at setting the vision,
(10:52):
just like pulling it out like you, you kind of have the North
Star in your pocket at at all times.
And what I'm trying to do is calibrate what we need to do to
get to those things, but also tomake sure that I'm on board and
aligned and understand your position.
If you're ahead of me, which sometimes you are, I know I, I
(11:13):
feel like the times when I'm catching up is through my 12
week plan review and through my quarterly review to get us to
the, the next step in those in those check insurance, right?
And then like you're always kindof calibrating us towards like
the, the next milestone in the vision setting, which is pretty
(11:34):
cool. It feels good.
It does it, I just want to checkin and make sure it does feel
good. I mean, look, I've got a lot of
responsibility and leadership inmy business and with this
family. Like I have lots of opinions,
but I hold on to those opinions pretty weakly because I'm not in
(11:58):
the, I don't like, I don't spendthe hour and a half with our
kids in the morning during theirlearning time to see where they
are, to see if they need more attention and certain things.
You know, I'm not the one that the kids want to have pillow
talk with at night, to girl talkto, to calibrate their innermost
(12:21):
feelings and desires. And so I, I'm kind of trusting
you to take the reins on those sorts of things to really see
our kids and to communicate, Greg, like this is where you can
help. This is where I'm spending time.
This is how I'm thinking about it.
But like, I think that because we have shared, we have shared
goals and the shared vision and that vision is calibrated.
(12:44):
Like, I hope that there's no resentment that you are taking
the lead on those things, you know, because I feel very
supported by your leadership, but I'm doing everything that I
can to make sure that I'm supporting you so that you don't
ever feel like you have too muchon your plate.
If that makes. Sense, yes, absolutely.
And I appreciate that very much.So.
I mean, I think that that's one of the things that in our
(13:06):
research people talk about a lotas women bearing an outsized
portion of the mental load when it comes to the home.
Yeah, and the family and the children.
And I think that I am happy to bear that leadership load
knowing that the conversations, the ones that we'll talk about
today, really help me kind of workshop things with you.
(13:29):
And together we can divide and conquer on those things to do.
So even if I'm the one that's noticing and observing and kind
of acting as the scientist around what everybody seems to
need, that we can then have these conversations,
particularly around our quarterly plans and in our
weekly conversations to support me in those efforts.
(13:50):
Absolutely. OK.
So we were talking about quarterly.
So I, yeah, I would love for youto talk about your 12 week plan,
how you discovered it, how long you've been using it, that kind
of stuff. Yeah, the 12 week plan, I really
love it's AI would say it's a like stripped down version of
business. OK, Rs, but it works for just
(14:11):
about everything. And the reason that it's called
the 12 week plan, it's based on a book called the 12 week year,
which the premise is you can do way more in a year than you than
you realize. Don't set annual goals, set 12
week goals and then crush them and then move on to the next 12
(14:32):
weeks. So that's what I've been doing
for almost 10 years now. And I'd use this mostly as a
function of work, but what I, what I can throw in there are
things that are related to our home life as well, especially if
I want to work on those particular things.
So the way that it's set up and I can link to the book, link to
(14:55):
the template. And hat tip to Scott Britton for
introducing this to me 10 years ago, a good friend and fellow
lifelong learner, if you will. So the way that it's set up is
your three month goal, your 12 week goal is the thing that
you're calibrated that that I'm calibrating towards, but I'm
(15:17):
focused on monthly and weekly. So the monthly thing that I need
to focus on is going to roll up to that 12 week goal.
And then my weekly tasks all need to roll up to that monthly
thing. And these are very specific
things with metrics, not like, you know, write the business
plan. It's like, OK, set time with
(15:40):
Danielle to focus on X. And I spelled this out for the
three to four areas of my life that are where my business that
are most pressing and I score them.
And every every Saturday or Sunday, I set up a new one.
And when I'm reviewing the previous week, the scores, if
(16:00):
I'm scoring in the upper 90s, that means that I haven't gone
hard enough. And if I'm in the 60s, then I
probably put too much on my plate.
But the sweet spot is like like high 70s, low 80s, like kind of
where I used to score in middle school.
And so I find that that gives methe intentionality to to
(16:27):
understand why I'm doing things,not just put things on my plate,
because that monthly goal is really what I'm calibrating
towards, if that makes. Sense.
Yeah, No, it makes a lot of sense.
I love how disciplined you are about that.
I was telling you earlier, just point me to somebody who's done
something well and I will copy it and execute because I'd, I'd
(16:48):
rather take something that is good enough and just make it
work for me. And I've shown this to, you
know, dozens of people over the last 10 years and people have
picked it up and, you know, manyhave started and stopped.
Like, I just find that it's as good as anything.
And I, I love it. So I'm I'm going to keep using.
So that's your share, that is your individual system.
(17:10):
I don't have a system for 12 week plan.
It's interesting, you know, we were talking earlier today about
how if we had met five years prior than what we did.
So say 15 years ago, I think I would be the one with the very
intense 12 week plan with OK Rs and KPIs and would be trying to
control my own destiny. And you might be the one that's
(17:33):
more resistant to that type of plan, right?
That's right. And so for me, while I see so
much growth in you in staying disciplined and focused in that
manner, and I see how much, how much relief it gives you.
Is relief the right word? Do you know what I'm saying is
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how much comfort, how much safety, how much safety is found
in that system? For me, my growth is actually
not having a spreadsheet that dictates my my goals because I
can usually tell you off the topof my head the things that I'm
working on currently, but it's more of a vibe and less of a
(18:16):
metric based system. And so that is what we talk
about. So what?
So we have two very different systems when it comes to
quarterly goals. But quarterly, typically when we
talk about your 12 week plan, wetalk about what are, what are my
goals as well and how are we going to make space for one
another to, to support those efforts.
(18:39):
So this most recently, I know that we're coming into like the
last time we talked about it, school was about to start and
some of my volunteering efforts were about to start at school
and outside of school, right? And so the conversation that we
had that was so helpful to me islike Greg, I'm Co chairing a
focus area for Impact 100 this year.
(19:02):
I'm signed up to do math games at Coco Plum, which I love.
And by the way, the local hospital just started a sweet
treat cart where I could push around a cart full of yummy
goodies for moms that have just given birth.
And I want to do all of these things.
Oh, and oh, by the way, I want to foster puppies too, Again.
So that was a great conversationwhere you really supported me
(19:27):
in. OK, so can you do math once a
month or twice a month instead of every week like last year?
And yes, the hospital says you have to come weekly, but guess
what, Danielle, you're a volunteer.
And so if you tell them that youwant to come twice a month, like
that's OK. And so now for this next, for
(19:48):
these next few months, I have mythe service piece of my pie,
which is such an important pieceto me really full thanks to our
conversation because I was. You know, racking in my brain at
3:00 AM constantly like how am Igoing to get all these things
done in addition to my job and all the other things that I have
to do. And so that's I think a great
(20:11):
example of where our quarterly goal setting systems are so
different. But that time that we come
together is so important becausewe are able to support one
another in creating space and sometimes really doing, you know
(20:35):
this quarter you're going to be travelling more because it's
something that we decided that we together talked about and
decided that you is important for value stream.
So how is our family going to shift with you being out of the
house more and on business trips.
So that is another thing that wetalked about during our
quarterly goal setting time. Yep, absolutely.
(20:57):
And I'm supportive of all the the service that you're doing.
And I also know how important itis to the kids that you are
there doing math with them. And I know how important it is
to the school. And I know how important the
school is to this family. And so that you get to check up
on it every two weeks is also very helpful.
(21:19):
Yeah, no, absolutely so. But it's just.
Trying to figure out all the pieces of the pie like I tend.
Especially when it comes to being of service, I tend to be a
bit overly aspirational. Yeah.
Well, I think that you, you are overly aspirational at times.
But other times you sign up because you don't think anyone
(21:39):
else is going to pull their weight.
And so I think that you need a little bit of like space to say,
it's OK if I only give what I can give to.
I don't need to give 100% to every bucket here because I will
have 0% left. I and I'm so grateful to you
truly for helping me recognize that especially in places where
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I am of service, like this is not a job.
I can decide what works for me, not some program head on high
telling me how frequently I willbe participating, correct?
Yeah, Yeah, you're still the customer.
Yes, exactly. So that is our quarterly, that's
our quarterly process around personal goals, right.
And sometimes we'll have a shared family goal that you'll
(22:23):
put on your 12 week plan and then hold me accountable to it
as well. But then the other quarterly
system that we've recently over the past couple of years
instituted really since we got this house.
So gosh, I guess it's been five years.
Yeah, the financial. Review.
We could probably have a whole separate episode on that, but
suffice it to say we do budget actual versus what we forecasted
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and then like the go forward budget forecast, but also
including what I call capital expenditures.
So like one time large items like turfing our front yard or
getting our pool relined. It usually has to do with house
stuff, right? But you know, school tuition for
Maverick, right, having last year it was like his first full
year of preschool, which was much more expensive than his one
(23:13):
day a week program, things like that, Talking about how we are
going to save for our budget forthat.
Yeah, so the the financial review is one of my favourites
in a weird way because it's sucha airtight container.
And if we follow the thread which I have created an e-mail
thread that gives the updates every quarter and what we
(23:36):
resolved to do for the followingquarter, it's just like so
clean. It's like we resolved to do
this, We did this, we resolved to do this, we did this.
And between a simple budgeting app, which I don't use for
budgeting, I just use for counting, it's just know where
the money went and then calibrate for the next quarter.
So if I know where the money went, we can track our
(23:57):
investments in a spreadsheet we can send, we can put all that
into GPT and create a nice little e-mail, have a quick 5
minute meeting about what's beengoing on, any resolutions,
anything that we want to focus on, anything that we want to
save towards put that in our, inour thread.
And then when it comes three months from from now, like you
(24:17):
know, in next month when we do it again, I just look back at
the thread and I know what we're, what we've been focused
on. It's like, honestly, it takes
the, the financial, what I thinkof as like the financial load,
the mental load of, of managing finances, which seems to be so
huge and daunting with all of the extra curriculars, all the
(24:39):
extra schooling, all the, you know, the stuff for the kids
like, and it just makes it so streamlined and I love that.
But I think the real innovation is that we're relying on facts,
not emotions. And we're looking at the whole
picture. We're not looking at one off, Oh
my gosh, we're now paying $800 amonth for jiu jitsu lessons.
How? How does that work right?
(25:01):
Yep, totally. And there are some things that
come up that we have to talk about whether it's financial or
otherwise. And this, this is where the
weekly stand up I think acts as a wonderful container because I
don't necessarily want to be bothering you when the girls
orthodontist calls one of us in the middle of the work day about
(25:21):
when we're going to schedule ournext appointment.
But I know that on Thursday mornings at our weekly stand up,
that is where we can have conversations like that.
So it just goes in my little to do system to Thursday morning.
And so I'm going to put our weekly stand up agenda in the
show notes and we'll we'll do a post about that as well because
that is an agenda that I think that is such an important
(25:44):
meeting because it, it kind of bridges the gap between these
quarterly high level conversations that we're having
and the daily tasks and minutia that we have to kind of divide
and conquer on completely. Yeah, no, the the weekly stand
up is key. It's, it's what are we eating?
What are, what are we doing thisweekend?
(26:06):
What do we have next week? When are we seeing each other?
When are we not? How do we schedule our
extracurriculars Like, you know,our exercise or our walks with a
friend or whatever? Physical therapy.
Like anything like that and, youknow, it's just kind of like a
place to bring up some things that we might have noticed over
the week or bring up some questions that we have for one
(26:27):
another that weren't really, youknow, fitting into like the
day-to-day conversation. Yeah, I think this is where the
sharing of house chores, it's like really important.
So, you know, the water filtration company needs to come
out this week. When are we scheduling that
appointment? Hunter needs to go to the
orthodontist and like, should wedo speech therapy for Maverick?
All the things kind of in the same way that our our family
(26:49):
meeting that we have with the kids.
If there's a problem that comes up during the week, we write it
on the board in the kitchen and then we can decide which one to
take care of. I know that if there are things
that come up during the week that are more than just a one
minute conversation and passing while we're brushing our teeth
kind of thing that we can use Thursday morning as a way to
have, you know, not an hour longconversation, but 5 to 10
(27:11):
minutes to really get aligned onwhat makes sense.
Yeah. No, it's it's perfect.
And and that's when we breakdowntasks and assign those tasks.
Yeah, that's where the real sharing of house chores is, I
believe. And then also of course, food
shopping and meal planning. So we are, we like to plan for
the week from a, we like to planfor the next week usually.
(27:35):
So we do it on Thursday morningsand then we'll plan what's going
on that that weekend and then the following week.
So it's meal planning, who needsthe car when because we share,
we share a car and who has like early mornings or late nights.
If I have like a volunteering opportunity or Greg has a drinks
event in Miami, thinking about, you know, who's going to handle
(27:56):
bedtime or mornings during during those times.
So it's, it's a really nice container to take a look at the
at the week ahead and make and just make sure that we're on the
same page without necessarily involving the kids.
The kids are our children are 7 to 5:00 and 3:00.
They don't really need to spend time with us on the weekends
(28:17):
talking about the week ahead. I don't even like to talk about
it on the weekend in on the weekend.
Honestly, we do it intentionally.
You know, we take half an hour during the week intentionally
because it feels more kind of like that's the time, like we're
not taking away from our relaxation on the weekend to do
that. Yep, exactly.
And then the the tasks, so tasksare flying left and right.
(28:42):
They are in our shared to do a system, which is a system that
we built kind of together based on David Allen's getting things
done. But honestly?
I don't know if we built it together, Greg, when we when we
had our first date, you were like, you need to read this book
getting things done and you and I think you even like downloaded
(29:05):
To Do List onto my phone. I did so, but no, it's a it's a
wonderful system. I think that you've really
gotten me focused on keeping things out of my head and I
would love to kind of get into the psychology behind that a
little bit. So the there's two different
effects at play here. I mean, I'm sure there are tons,
(29:25):
but two that I would like to highlight from using A to do
list system. And that's one cognitive load
theory, which is that humans have limited working memory.
So when we externalize tasks into systems, it reduces our
cognitive load, which frees us up to be so much more creative
and peaceful. And I have certainly seen that
(29:47):
in my life. I try to keep nothing in my
brain. And and the the cognitive load
is going to be there if you if, if we create tasks that are not
tasks. And so I'd like to talk about
that a lot, which is like, it's not get Maverick a new bike.
That is not a task. You cannot put that in To Do
List. That is not a thing.
What is the next step? And the next step needs to go
(30:09):
in. And then you can write out the
the steps after that if you wantto or not, but only write down
the next step that you have to do for anything.
Otherwise, like cognitive load is right back on you.
It's just now showing up in yourTo Do List.
Yeah, that's such a great point.So what would the first step be
like? Research a bike for Maverick.
Or something. So what size does he currently
have? You know, it's the the first
(30:31):
step, the first like. Look up what size average bike.
Currently is look at look at, look at his current size bike,
right? Like what when 1 and then go
from there. But like that's, that's the kind
of stuff that I see in lots of people's systems.
And I see all these systems for couples around finances and
around tasks and around this andthat.
And I'm like, the principles arenot taught in these systems that
(30:51):
they're putting out there. They're just creating what you
and I have created and are charging a premium, but aren't
giving people the tools to actually make them work for
them. So I think that, you know, the
cognitive load theory is exactlywhat we're talking about.
It's not just the cognitive loadon writing something down, which
is great. You've written something down,
but it's actually, did you writedown what you need to do next?
(31:12):
Did you actually think through? And if you haven't thought it
through, do what we do. Ring the AI bell, Ask GBT, ask
Grok. Hey, I need to get my kid a new
bike. What are the next steps?
Yeah. Or put it in your inbox, right.
I think that's one of the key innovations of David Allen's
system, which is if you do not have time to think about what's
the tiniest next step or what isthe right, it's just throwing it
(31:36):
in the top. Throw it in the top and then
process it later. And then process it later.
Agreed, but what I've learned inbeing around friends and
relatives that are on their phone for like 5 to 10 minutes
at a time when they think of something is that no task is 1
minute or less. Almost no task and I.
Think that's something that is something that I've really seen
(31:57):
you change where it used to be, Greg, we need Mayo.
And you would go to Walmart and order Mayo and you'd think it
would take you a minute, but it would actually take 5.
Especially because then you maybe forgot the fact that we
need distilled water. Or maybe I'm like, oh, is it
cheaper on Amazon? Yeah, exactly.
Exactly so. So just write it down and that
(32:17):
like I don't even like that ruleof it.
It's less than a minute. Like do it now.
Not anymore, not anymore. The do delegate defer thing is
really delegate defer and and schedule.
Those are the three things that I do.
I don't basically if, if you know, if I get a text from
somebody being like, hey, I needAK1 like I write it down.
(32:37):
I don't rush and run to my computer and download the K1.
Yeah, it's more containers. The inbox is a container.
Exactly. The inbox is a container.
Yeah, OK. And then the other one is
there's a Garnick effect, which I love because I didn't know
this was a thing, but it's so a thing, which is that unfinished
or unassigned tasks linger in the mind, increasing stress and
intrusive thoughts. I know this so much to be true,
(33:02):
which is why being able to put something in To Do List really
does relieve that mental load. Unfortunately for like personal
relationships and things like that, I find that the Zagarnik
effect like all I find it so difficult.
This is a tangent but like so difficult to not think about a
problem I'm having with a friendor a family member if I cannot
(33:25):
solve said problem. Like it just stays on loop in my
brain. Yes.
Yeah, yeah. The the anticipatory stress
research that Sweeney and Kavanaugh did in 2012 says that
where he spikes when uncertaintyis high.
And so that's part of it is because of that high
uncertainty. And when you don't have anything
(33:46):
that's predictable, like, you know, hey, I know how this is
going to get resolved. It's going to keep going.
But this is also why our weekly stand ups and quarterly planning
work is because if you have a thought on the bike about, you
know, jiu jitsu classes and budgeting for those like, you
know, where that container livesand when it's going to be talked
about and you can even name it out loud, you'd be like, hey, I
(34:07):
just had this worry show up about jiu jitsu.
I'm excited to talk about it in our quarterly budget review.
Yeah. You know, yes.
And then I think that relieves the stress on you.
So it's not like Danielle's coming to you in the middle of
our workout. Because I just want to solve
things for you. And so if you text me, you know,
need Mayo, you know the verses put it in.
So this is the the other part ofto do is that we love is we
(34:31):
assign tasks to one another and we assign it for the day that we
that we think of it so that the other person sees it, but we do
not expect that to be done that day.
That's just like a normal, like when you have a chance type of
thing, which is which is beautiful.
So instead of waking up to 40 text messages from Danielle
(34:51):
being like we're out of this, this happened, this light bulbs
out, whatever. Like I'll just see it in my To
Do List when I scan that and then I can move that around as
necessary. Yeah.
And that's a recent innovation that I'm still working on, which
is the fact that I get up a couple hours before you and you
go to bed a few hours after me. So often I will wake up, pick up
(35:11):
text messages from you about something that you're very
excited about at 10:00 at night.Yeah.
And I will. Yeah, too often you will wake up
to like logistics things from me, right?
Yeah, you know, I started putting.
I even did this last night. I went to text you this article
about Trump shutting down the the Florida vaccine, religious
(35:32):
exemption, whatever. And I went to text it to you and
be like, Trump saved the day. But I didn't.
I put it in my inbox so that when I saw it, I could have a
conversation with you about it because I was like, this is
something that I don't want you to just like, see, I like, I
want to talk about. This.
But it was a thing for me to talk to about you because that's
a place where we build connection.
We're not just looking to, you know, have these to do.
(35:55):
This or just like don't you lovethe people that just like send
you articles with no Oh my God, like you just gave me homework
like I. Don't understand?
So that's not helpful. Yeah, it happens all the Oh my
God, don't get me started. This is a productivity house.
If y'all can't tell already. We love this kind of stuff.
We love being able to connect with one another and not having
(36:15):
this noise. Like, what I'm trying to get
better at is listening and not having my phone in front of me.
I find that, you know, writing things down instead of doing
them on my phone is such a greatway to be present for my loved
ones. And I find that, like, my whole
life just works better if I'm present for you, if I'm present
(36:36):
for our kids. Like that's really what this is
about. That's why we're doing this.
That's why we have these vision settings.
That's what like the vision is that we get to spend more time
together as a family. And so how do we do that?
Like we have to put these containers around all of the
things that can jump into our lives so that we approach those
(36:57):
with the care that is needed, but not before the time that
they're needed to be addressed. Yes, well said.
Absolutely. Well said.
And I think that's really the point of this is that this
episode could be called Ways to spend more time together.
What is all the what is all the productivity for?
(37:19):
And what it's really for is so that we are not thinking about
those things at the time that weare connecting, right.
So that when we're working out, we're working out.
When we're working, we're working.
When we're sitting on the beach or relaxing in the ocean, we're
really there. The resentment thing is real
(37:39):
too. And I'm so glad that we don't
have that anymore. Like I know in so many
relationships, like even friendships, it's just so hard
when you feel like you're pulling more of the weight than
someone else's. Like I'm just so glad that we
don't have that. And I'm, I'm very, very grateful
for the for that we're on the same page with having these
(38:00):
systems and that we've designed them together.
It really has alleviated almost all, if not all of the
resentment. So great.
Well, thank you everybody for listening and we hope that we've
given you something to think about today.
Like I have no doubt that everyone listening has their own
system that works well. It might look like your
partner's, it might be completely different than your
(38:22):
partner's, but I think the most important thing is really to
develop a shared system to talk about the things that need to
get talked about so that you canspend the rest of the time
connecting in in more fun ways. Exactly.
Yeah, like without headphones. Yeah, we tried it today.
Let's see how it works. Hope you can hear us, yeah?
(38:44):
OK. All right, great.
Love you, Goosey. Love you, Goosey.
Hey, guys, if you're still here,you're definitely our kind of
person. Thanks for spending this time
with us on The Most Important Thing.
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purpose.