November 18, 2025 • 55 mins
Burnout doesn't have to be the cost of ambition. In this conversation with repeat guest and facilitator Camille Leek, we explore somatic healing and cyclical living for entrepreneurs balancing work and motherhood. Learn how to restore sustainable productivity by aligning with natural cycles- birth, growth, decay, and death-so your nervous system can support big work without collapse.
Instead of chasing forever-summer energy, we map real rhythms for the working mom across a day, week, month, and year: ramp-up mornings that build capacity, focused midweek production, deliberate wind-down evenings, and honest wintering that composts what no longer serves. This is energy management for the creative entrepreneur who refuses to choose between presence and impact. But this isn't about following our exact business or life blueprint, it's about experiencing and then fine tuning your own,
Camille shares how she left a "successful" corporate path after years of chronic fatigue from 60–80 hour weeks and began designing boundaries that fit her biology: no Monday or Friday meetings, session windows that honor nervous system regulation, and planned hibernation months. We unpack the difference between agency and control, the social pressure to perform like a machine, and the quiet violence of self-colonization when worth equals output.
You'll hear concrete examples for mothers and creatives navigating matrescence—how to swap "can't do the park" for "movie cuddle," how to plan launches around menstrual cycle awareness and true energy, and why ramp-down is the missing link between action and real rest. This is holistic health meets sustainable business strategy.
If burnout has you oscillating between go and collapse, this conversation on embodiment and seasonal living offers a map to smoother waves. Expect practical routines for work-life balance, clear boundary scripts, and compassionate language that reframes PMS/PMDD, seasonal lows, and late-year contraction as natural, intelligent responses. The result is fewer, richer outputs; better sleep; more presence at home; and a grounded sense of enoughness that doesn't disappear when your calendar empties.
This is self-care that actually builds capacity-boundaries that create agency in both motherhood and entrepreneurship.
About Camille:
Camille Leak (she/her) is a Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI) Facilitator & Somatic Trauma Healing Educator. Via her practice, Real Talk & Brave Spaces, she provides group facilitation, workshops, and one-on-one coaching about a variety of DEI topics and trauma healing, cultivating spaces where individuals and groups can fearlessly confront the most uncomfortable elements of life's realities.
If you’re ready to stop living on autopilot and start leading your life with deep presence, I’d love to work with you. Book a free interest call here: Click Here
💌 Want more? Follow me on Instagram @themotherhoodmentor for somatic tools, nervous system support, and real-talk on high-functioning burnout, ambition, healing perfectionism, and motherhood. And also pretty epic meme drops.
🎧 Did you love this episode? Be sure to follow and please take a quick moment to leave a review and send this episode to a friend. I'd love to hear from you on how this podcast impacted you, send me a DM or an email.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and this podcastis for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to healthhealing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do, it's support for who
we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
(00:25):
all of our self and hardhumidity as.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor podcast.
(00:47):
Today I have a repeat guest withme who I'm just so excited to
have back, Camille Leek.
I have just loved ourconversations and connection.
I first met Camille in the HLNHolistic Life Navigation course
and then some of their smallgroups.
And I just, I love the way thatyou teach, the way that you
facilitate.
(01:08):
I just, I love your embodimentthough, and just being in your
presence.
You are just so you.
And I'm just so excited for ourconversation today, especially
about cycles and living withoutburnout and how things need to
shift and even just that likesuperwoman, I can do it all
(01:28):
mentality and embodiment, whichI am super familiar with.
So will you introduce yourselfand just this work a little bit
that we're gonna dig into today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so so happy to be back.
I really dig the space.
So thank you for letting me joinyou again.
And yeah, I'm I'm I work nowwith holistic life navigation,
uh helping folks, because I wasalso helping myself with the
trauma navigation as well asstress management.
(02:00):
But part of what brought me tothis phase of work, this phase
of life was I had a 15-year,quote unquote successful career
in corporate America.
But there came a point wherethat just wasn't sustainable for
me anymore.
Working 60, 70, sometimes 80hour weeks and just all the
(02:22):
other things that that wentalong with it, it hit a point
where my body and my spirit justcouldn't keep going.
I didn't like the way I wasshowing up as a mother, as a
wife, as a person.
And the idea of, well, I justgotta make it to retirement.
It wasn't, it wasn't workinganymore.
The idea of doing that another15 year, well, even the idea of
(02:45):
doing that another five years,let alone another 15 years or
trying to make it to retirement,just put me in so much
overwhelm.
So I I I knew I needed to leave.
Uh, but it wasn't just leavingthat I needed to do differently.
I could start doing my own thingand put myself back in burnout
again.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
By simply doing the same practices.
Uh and that's this, this iswhere cyclical and seasonal
living came in.
And to give you all a sense ofwhere I am in my annual cycle, I
am in the midst of full-on rampdown, decay.
I am autumn mode.
We are slowing down, no newthings are starting here.
This is this is a very slowenergy for me.
(03:27):
But one of the things that Inoticed within myself and within
other people is that we havethis expectation that if I can
do a certain thing at a certainlevel, at a certain intensity
one time, then that means Ishould be able to do it like
that all the time.
And if I can't, that meanssomething's wrong.
(03:47):
And then we get because of thatmindset, we get into this habit
of go, go, go, crash, go, go,go, crash, go, go, go, crash,
where we're oscillating betweenthese really high highs and
these really low lows.
And we wonder why we sink intothese depressions, or we wonder
why we go into collapse and wehave no energy.
But as soon as we start to get alittle energy back, what do we
(04:07):
do?
We go straight into full-ontrying to do everything, all the
things, and then that cycle justcontinues.
And it occurred to me one day,like, what if we just smooth out
that process?
And it really was it was reallysimple.
I just looked at the seasonswhere I live in the northern
hemisphere, like winter, spring,summer, fall.
(04:28):
What if those four seasons, whatif those four phases were built
into my day, my week, my month,my year?
What if there were dedicatedphases for ramping up, for
producing, for ramping down andrest?
And that I go through each ofthose phases in a smooth way
(04:51):
rather than jumping from thebinary of a really high high and
a really low low.
And again, like I said, I reallyjust looked to nature.
And I it actually even took meback to uh the life cycle that
many of us learned in biologyclass and freshman year of high
school or sophomore year of highschool, where it was birth,
growth, decay, death, birth,growth, decay, death, birth,
(05:15):
growth, decay, death.
This is a cycle that all livingthings grow through.
So why should I, as a humanbeing, think I am outside of
that cycle?
So there was a level of humilityto come into relationship with
that cycle, but also a level ofrecognition that, hey, yeah, bad
news, nothing lasts forever.
(05:35):
But hey, good news, nothinglasts forever.
Like just because I go into adeath rest phase doesn't mean
I'm gonna be stuck there becausethat death rest phase gives me
the time that I need to then goback into a birth phase, a ramp
up phase.
And that ramp up phase preparesme for a full-on execution,
production, growth phase.
But that can't last forever.
I'm gonna have to begin to rampdown a little bit to prepare
(05:58):
myself for so it justcontinuously feeds into one
another.
And I've loved reallyintegrating that for myself
professionally as well aspersonally.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
You just said so much good stuff.
I know I rambled my phone.
No, that was the best ramble.
I was like, just keep going.
I'll just be here sipping mycoffee.
You keep talking, I'll keep justlike drinking this in.
You it takes so much humility, Ithink.
And this is one of the thingsthat I have loved that like I
(06:28):
feel like somatics has given mean invitation back into humanity
in a way that I thought I neededto outrun it, outheal it.
And I think, you know, I'm a bigfan of like the personal growth
and development world.
But the more time I've spent in,I guess you could say the
somatics world, the more I haveseen there's just this intensity
(06:52):
of always growing and expansion.
And no one's ever talking aboutthe contraction or the decay and
the death, and how that's notsome, that's not a part we're
supposed to skip by some fancyblueprint of success.
And in fact, I work with a lotof women who have had massive
amounts of success and theirlives look really, really shiny.
(07:14):
And all of a sudden, life putsthem in this position where
they're like, I literally can'tbe in this summer anymore.
And there is so much shame andguilt because I think there's so
much messaging out there to allpeople.
But again, this podcast ismostly for women and mothers.
So I'm gonna speak to that lifeexperience of you can do it all,
(07:34):
you can have it all, and itlooks really easy and it's
always consistent and pretty.
And it's like that that thatthere's not like this, like, oh,
that's not possible for you.
It is this like, okay, butthat's not the full picture.
And we're not talking about theseasons and like what it takes
to get there and the realitythat even once you're quote
unquote there, you're stillgonna maybe have moments where
(07:58):
you want or need to contract orslow down.
And I don't know about you, butI'm a metaphor girl.
And I had this metaphor ofburnout for me where I was like,
it was like I was driving thiscar, and the only options my
body knew were every time I hitthe gas, I go 75.
And every time I hit the brakes,it's like full collapse and
(08:20):
burnout.
And it's like my like my somapersonally and professionally,
it's like I only knew this likeall out or nothing.
Right.
And for me, it's like, okay,going 75 on the highway with
some loud, like millennial rap,like beautiful, love it.
(08:40):
Going 75 in a school zone whenmy kids freaking out in the
back, like, not ideal.
Like, I need to be able to slowdown and speed up.
And the more I think aboutsuccess and safety and nervous
system regulation, which like Iknow you have a thing with
buzzwords.
I loved the podcast episodeswhere you and Luis like talked
about all of the like healingwords.
(09:02):
One of my favorite episodes.
But that like how you stay outof burnout is not that you have
to slam the brakes.
It's that you learn how to usethe gas and the brakes
appropriately when needed.
And I have to laugh because justthis morning I was thinking to
myself, I'm in my follicularlike ovulation phase right now,
(09:22):
and I am like high vibing.
I have all this creative energy.
I like, I feel like I couldconquer the world.
I'm like so sturdy and stable,and I feel so shiny and happy
and sexy.
And I had this moment of like,oh, I just want to feel like
this all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
But that's not reality.
It's not, it's just like, yeah,great ideal, great desire, but
like that's just that's just notwhat life is.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, it's not.
And and I it's nice to have thatdesire.
It's not like, oh, this is thisis this is amazing.
I wish it could last forever.
It's not, but it doesn't meanthat it won't come back around
again.
Like I I personally I'm not adoctor, so y'all don't come for
me.
This is just my personalopinion.
(10:08):
But even when we put labels onthings like seasonal affective
disorder or even PMS, like Idon't think it's necessarily
seasonal affective disorder.
I don't even think it's PMS.
Our bodies are respondingappropriate to that particular
situation.
That is, our bodies are slowingdown because it is getting
colder, because the the days aregetting shorter.
(10:30):
We are going to sleep morebecause it's darker and colder.
I don't think that's a disorder.
I don't even think it'snecessarily a syndrome that when
I'm in my luteal phase, about togo into my menstrual phase, that
I'm a little bit more tired, I'mcrampy.
That's just the cycle.
And we have to put these thesewords, these conditions, these
disorders on things when we'renot quote unquote outside of our
(10:53):
prime.
But I gotta say, I have reallyloved, loved, loved embracing my
phases of decay and death or myphases of ramp down and rest.
I have instituted a practice ofhaving annual depression
hibernation periods.
And I just embrace the factthat, yeah, November, December,
January, it's those are verycontracting periods of the year
(11:18):
for me.
I tell all my Capricorn friends,I love you, but no, I'm not
coming to your birthday parties.
I'm not coming.
That's just not what I do inJanuary.
I don't do external things.
That is a very, very dark monthfor me.
But because I embrace thedarkness of that month, because
I embrace the solitude of thatmonth, I there comes a point
where I start to feel myselflike, you know, actually, I kind
(11:38):
of want to start going out.
I want to start seeing people, Iwant to start doing things
rather than just lamenting thefact, like, what's wrong with
me?
How come you don't want to go tothe party?
Just get up, Camille, do thethings.
No, that's just not where we areright now.
And the key part is right nowthat if I can embrace where I am
right now, there will comeanother phase.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Yeah, it's like you're finding safety and
success right there in your bodyand where you are.
Like you're orienting to wheream I?
Who am I in this moment?
I know I used to have everymonth when I would get luteal or
when I'd have those seasons anda slowdown, I would get that
(12:19):
like internal meaning making ofI don't know who I am, or you're
like, I don't feel like myself.
And I remember one of myretreats, I was super luteal.
And I have like a pretty intensePMDD luteal phase where like I
get real dark, real emotional,real sensitive.
(12:39):
And it's hard to explain topeople how learning to embrace
that, learning to realize, like,oh wait, actually today, this is
me.
This is these are my bones, thisis my body, this is my heart,
this is my breath.
Where is my capacity?
What is my actual energy andcompassion?
(13:00):
And that's how I led and startedthe retreat is literally in
tears telling everyone, like,hey, hi, I don't feel like shiny
Becca.
And I'm not gonna make that meananything because if you walked
in the door and you were just amess, I would be like, good, I
love you, messy, bring yourmess.
But then when it's myself, Itend to have a lot of judgment
(13:20):
and like I should be thiscertain way.
But I think I have started tomake meaning that my humanity is
just as worthy and wonderful andnot so terrifying.
Like it's it's really like, butdid you die?
It's like, no, like I'm stillalive.
Can I find the aliveness even inthose, even in those dark, hard
(13:45):
winter or fall months?
It's like that composting issuch an important part.
And I still panic a little.
I still have a little bit ofresistance or fear in me of
like, oh wait, no, but this isjust the life cycle.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And I and I really love thatpart.
This is just a life cycle.
Sometimes we think of decay anddeath as being the opposite of
life.
For me, it is a part of life, itis a part of the life cycle.
I I cannot give birth withoutdeath.
If it is my desire to birthsomething, to grow something, I
(14:21):
also need to go through periodsof decay and death in order for
that to come about.
So it's really for me been animperative not to think of these
as mutually exclusive opposites,but really phases that feed into
one another, that support oneanother.
And by doing that, and peopleare kind of surprised, like when
(14:45):
I describe uh working and livingseasonally and cyclically, that
I am actually much, much moreproductive by doing less because
I have these dedicated phases,these dedicated uh times in my
rhythm where I am producing, butI have these other phases that
help to cultivate so that whatdoes come out of those
(15:08):
production and growth phases isso rich, is so potent, but it
doesn't have to be where I amall the time.
And you know, cyclical livingisn't completely alien to us,
you know.
When I talk to people aboutthis, and they're like, I don't
get it, this doesn't make anysense.
At the very least, what mostpeople can understand is that
(15:30):
the capacity I have at 3 p.m.
in the afternoon is not the samecapacity I have at 3 a.m.
in the morning.
And you generally wouldn'texpect me to show up and be
doing the same things at 3 a.m.
as I would at as you would at 3p.m.
Most people can like, yeah, thatmakes sense.
All it is then is expanding thatto the week, to the month, to
(15:50):
the year.
So even if it seems a littlealien to you, the idea of living
seasonally or cyclically orgetting into a rhythm, think
even just about 3 a.m.
versus 3 p.m.
Oh, generally we are doingdifferent things at those times.
And then what would it be liketo apply that same mindset to
your week, your month, or youryear?
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Yeah, and I'm even thinking seasons of motherhood,
because I know I've worked witha lot of women who, especially
women who built a lot of like itsounds like you experienced this
like corporate success orbusiness success, and like a lot
of their identity was tied intothat, not just of success, but I
think underneath that there's asecurity and safety.
(16:33):
And I think they get into thismotherhood season.
And for some women, theircapacity, their desire, that
piece is so big.
There's some women who lose somecapacity for business or for
work or for their creativeoutlets in motherhood.
But I think there's also somewomen who lose their desire or
(16:53):
their desire shifts.
It's not that it's gone, it'sjust that it's shifted to
something else.
And I think it's so beautiful towitness like this is just a
season, and maybe it changes forgood, but it will be for your
good.
It will be for the good and it'sokay.
But I think it brings, I ourculture has such a selling of
(17:17):
sustained success, and this iswhat it looks like.
And I don't know about you, butI am so tired of seeing here's
the perfect blueprint forsuccess and what it looks like
for me.
And it's like one, it's almostalways this very rigid,
consumeristic, here's a perfect10-step process.
(17:38):
But I think a lot of times whatthey don't what they're not
saying, but that what people arehearing and feeling, because I
work with women who are verysmart and they're still
comparing themselves to theseblueprints or these people
selling it, where there's someway that I can skip the part
where there's composting, wherethere's decay, where there's
(17:58):
death, where there's struggle,where there's a fall or a
winter, or a birth season, whichby the way, like I had I had a
pretty beautiful birth.
Like I think especially of mysecond birth, it was a beautiful
birth.
It was like, couldn't ask forbetter.
That was a shit ton of work.
And I thought my butthole wasgonna rip open and I was in pain
and I had to face parts ofmyself that were overwhelming
(18:21):
and activating, and I was cryingand yelling, and I thought I was
gonna die.
And I was looking at my midwife,was like, is the baby ever gonna
come?
And it was so funny because Ilooked at her and I was like, is
the baby really coming?
She was like, if not, this is apretty weird party.
Like you're naked in a bathtub,your husband's here, there's two
women, like this is weird ifthere's no baby coming.
And I was like, You're right.
(18:43):
But I think, I think we'realways looking for a way to opt
out of the human experience.
Yes, instead of being in thehuman experience.
It's like, wait, no, no, no.
What if we like sunk into it?
And I love this concept ofseasonal living.
And I'm curious, like, if wewant to go in the direction of
like talking about thosedifferent seasons, what they
(19:04):
look like and how we embracethem.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
And yeah, that that idea of okay.
So let me back up.
I was saying, yeah, yeah.
Uh so there are generally likefour seasons I I work with, like
I said, birth, growth, decay,and death, if you're thinking
about it in terms of the lifecycle.
I also talk about it in terms oflike a capacity life cycle.
(19:29):
So you can think of that interms of like a phase to ramp
up, a phase to produce andexecute, a phase to ramp down,
and a phase to rest.
And then if you love analogiesas I do, um, you can just think
of the four seasons that wegenerally experience, like in
the in the northern hemisphere,spring, summer, autumn, and
winter.
And the how these look for eachof us is going to be different
(19:53):
on a daily, weekly, monthly, andyearly space or basis.
And it's going to look differentfor each person.
And I wanted to bring this in,especially to your point around
a blueprint.
Because whenever I teach livingseasonally and cyclically, well,
just tell me what I'm supposedto do on Monday and at 6 a.m.
And what am I supposed to bedoing?
Tell me what to do in winter.
Talk what am I supposed to bedoing in winter?
(20:14):
What is it?
I can't tell you because each ofus are going to have different
rhythms.
Each of us are going to havedifferent cycles.
What I do like to support peoplein doing is coming into
relationship with what yourparticular cycle may be, but I
can't tell you.
Even for women who menstruate,they think, okay, so when I'm
menstruating, I'm supposed to bedoing this.
And when I'm ovulating, this iswhat no, I can't tell you that.
(20:35):
For some people duringmenstruation week, that is going
to be their winter week.
That's going to be their restweek.
But for some people, that'sactually their growth week.
That's when they feel at theirhighest capacity.
And neither one is right,neither one is wrong.
It's about understanding whichone works for you.
unknown (20:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
So less I love I just want to pause there, have
everyone take that in because Ithink that I think so many women
need that permission because weare looking for some expert,
some therapist, some coach, somepodcast, some book to tell us
what to do.
And it's like you and your bodyand your babies and your home
(21:16):
and your relationships arefundamentally different.
And slowing down to payattention and have a
relationship to where are you?
What are you experiencing?
And what does health look likeright here and now?
What does honoring the life inyou, the desire in you, the
(21:36):
capacity, what does it look likeright here and now?
And how can you get to know someof your cycles, your highs, your
lows, the middles, the betweens?
I think that's so important.
And I love that that's like theplace where we start.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Yes.
Yes.
And so what I'll share is kindof a description of the four
phases.
And then I can even give someexamples of how they manifest
for me on different timescales,as well as professionally and
personally.
So let's start with my personalfavorite: the death and rest
phase.
So this is when we're so if youkind of think about it as a
(22:13):
wave, this would be the lowertrough.
So this is when our capacitymight be its lowest.
And for many of us, this is whatwe can overcouple with being
bad, like this is the bad time.
But what if we just look at itfor what it is?
This is when our capacity isgenerally its lowest.
And by capacity, I'm going tomean say, like, you know, energy
and time, because I'll also talkabout capacity and another
(22:35):
concept in a little bit.
But so this is generally whenour capacity is going to be the
lowest.
So death, our death phase, ourrest phase.
Then we can move into our birthphase, our ramp up phase.
And this is a really importantphase that we generally skip
over because most of us go fromzero to a hundred.
Either we're in death or we'rein production.
(22:57):
We jump where we're asleep or wejump out of bed and we do all
the things.
Yeah.
But we really want to institutetransition phases.
This birth phase is importantbecause we are easing out of
rest and death, but we're not,and we're preparing ourselves
for that growth, for thatproduction phase, but we're not
fully there yet.
(23:18):
This is the phase where weactually get to cultivate our
capacity.
That is, what are the things weneed to put in place in order
for that production, in orderfor that growth to actually
happen?
So you can think of this, thisis what might be the
brainstorming phase.
You can also think of this assomewhat of a self-care phase.
Um, so for example, if I thinkabout this on my my daily
(23:41):
schedule, for me, my birthphase, my ramp up phase is 4
a.m.
Yes, I like to work at wake upat 4 a.m.
That's just me.
I'm not telling y'all, y'allgotta get up at 4 a.m.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
This is my cycle.
Thank God, because immediately Iwas like, immediately no.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
So my ramp up phase is from 4 a.m.
to 10 a.m.
So I take those six hours out ofthe day to prepare myself for
the growth, the production.
So in those four hours, likeeven the first four hours of
that six hours from 4 a.m.
to 8 a.m.
That's just my time.
Forget my husband, forget mykids, forget work.
(24:19):
That's just me.
That is my time to get up and Imight go to the gym, I might do
some yoga, I might write in myjournal, I might do some
meditation and prayer, I mightjust sit in the dark and be with
myself.
I might take a bath, what Imight make myself some
breakfast.
And those four hours, that is mytime to tend to my container,
(24:44):
nobody else.
Like I said, no work, nohusband, no kids, no phone, no
email, nothing.
That sounds magic.
It is, it is my favorite time ofthe day.
I love it.
It's my favorite time of day.
People are freaked out when Itell them my favorite time of
day is 4 a.m.
to 6 a.m.
They're like, what are youtalking about?
But I love it.
It is absolute magic.
And I need that phase in orderto then prepare me for the next
(25:07):
phase.
So that's why you could think ofit as a self-care, but this is
also gonna be a brainstormingphase.
So if I think about it on myannual cycle, this kind of for
me aligns with like springtime,so the March, April, May period.
This is when I'm starting likebrainstorming things I might
want to put into fruition, maybeeven just starting to put some
things into fruit to fruition,making connections with people,
(25:31):
talking, setting up the bones ofevents that will be later to
come.
But again, like just setting upthe foundation, putting helping
to create the container.
But then after ramp up, afterour birth phase, now we get to
go into growth, we get to gointo production.
And like I say, this is whenwe're doing all the things.
This is when when we're we'reclicking on all cylinders.
(25:52):
And so for me, like if I was togive you my weekly schedule,
this is Tuesday, Wednesday, andThursday for me.
So Monday, I like to ramp up.
Like I might check some emails,look at my schedule, but I'm not
really doing all the things onTuesday, Wednesday, and
Thursday.
That's when I'm givingpresentations and workshops.
That's this is when I'm doingone-on-one sessions.
(26:14):
This is might be what I'm doingin-person events.
So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,that is my time of the week
where I'm just kind of likedoing doing the most.
But I need Monday to bedifferent.
I need Monday to be that ramp upto prepare me for Tuesday and
Wednesday and Thursday.
And this is how I knew I wasdoing something different and
magical because I used to, I'mabout to curse again.
(26:37):
I love it.
I used to fucking hate Mondaysat work when I was in the
corporate space.
I hated them.
I hate I even hated Sundaysbecause I would just spend
Sunday, like Monday is coming.
Monday scary, yeah.
Hated it because 8 a.m.
Monday jumped right into doingall the things.
It was just like, oh my God, itjust never stops.
But to consciously create a dayof the week that isn't the most,
(27:01):
that isn't at the height ofeverything, that allows me to
ease into it, creates capacityfor me to do all those things on
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
And you know, for if I thinkabout it on my sort of my
monthly for me, that I whetherit's like with the moon,
sometimes I track the moon, itcan be with the full moon, or
even with my my my inner moonschedule or or or rhythm that
(27:24):
could be my ovulation time.
That's when I'm a bit moreextroverted.
A girlfriend calls is like, hey,you want to go to this event?
Yes, this is the time.
Let's do it.
Like this is when I'm feelingit.
Like I'm a bit more engaged.
So that's when I might plan moresocial events, more networking
events.
But this does not last forever.
And thank God, because it'sexhausting.
(27:46):
It's a lot.
Because then we want to start toramp down.
And again, just like ramp up,ramp down and decay is an
important transition period.
And it's a period we think wedon't need, but we really do.
And this is particularlyimportant if we think about it,
even on a daily schedule.
When we say, like, I just can'tseem to fall asleep.
Well, part of the reason wecan't seem to fall asleep is we
(28:07):
actually don't have thistransition phase.
We don't have this phase fromdoing all the things to actually
going to sleep.
The body needs space totransition, even if it's just
not seeing screens for a littlebit, not having lights at their
full brightness.
So really creating a container,a phase of the day where I
transition out of doing all thethings, running around, to
(28:30):
preparing my body for rest.
It seems like sleep would justbe easy.
And yeah, many of us collapse,but actually letting ourselves
fall asleep, there has to be atransition period.
And so whether it's in the day,which is really important.
So for me, that's going to be 4p.m.
to 10 p.m.
And during that time, there'ssort of like this domino of
(28:53):
things that I like to do ofturning off the computer or
dimming the lights.
There's time to cook dinner,time for me to reconnect with my
husband and my kids, reading abook or listening to a podcast
before I actually fall asleep.
Those kinds of things.
Or if I think about it within,like I shared earlier, within
the year, like right now, thisis I'm in my decay phase where
(29:15):
I'm still working, but not atthe same intensity I was over
the summer.
So this is a time of year wheregenerally I'm no, I'm not going
to be traveling for events.
I'm not going to be doingretreats out of the country.
Um, I'm not starting newprojects.
I'm finishing projects that werealready in place.
And I'm not even really thinkingnecessarily about projects for
next year, but taking a littletime to reflect on this year and
(29:36):
just make notes of some things Imight want to carry into next
year, things I may want to dodifferently.
But this is really anopportunity for me to bring some
things to a close and allowmyself then to enter into my
depression and hibernationperiod.
So I know that was a lot.
I'm gonna pause, check in withyou.
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
I love that.
And I think the pacing of that.
Was so great.
And I loved hearing all of it insync.
It's making me reflect on my owncycles and how they're
different.
And I think that's what'sbeautiful too, is like there's
similarities in like the seasonswe experience.
But like even when you weretalking about like when you
(30:17):
experience them, like my falland winter are pretty normal.
But like for me, summer is notproductive when I think of work.
Now there's a lot of extrovertand like fun, playful energy for
summer.
But when it comes to mybusiness, that shit goes on the
back burner.
Like one from capacity, two,just like my desire to work is
(30:38):
less in the summer.
But I know that season now.
So now I know like don't plan abunch of launches or like new
programs in the summer.
And I think too, honoring,honoring that cycle is so
delicious.
And I think one of the things Iwas thinking of is there's going
to be people who hear this andthey immediately feel permission
(31:00):
to use that privilege of beingable to shape their lives and
their businesses.
And I think there's going to bepeople who are going, my work
doesn't account for that, right?
Like I'm thinking of likeclients who are real estate
agents for a perfect example,where there's like there is,
there is no work life balance.
They're like they're in abusiness where there is a lot of
(31:21):
intensity.
I'm using their phrasing withthose work-life balance.
There, there's a constant needand vision of what I have to do
for success.
For you, how do you help thosewomen and those people figure
out their cyclical living withinwhere they have a little bit
less choice or agency orprivilege there?
(31:42):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Cause I would even gently, gently and with so much
compassion, challenge whether ornot you don't have as much
agency as you think you do.
Whenever we use the term haveto, you gotta get curious.
There's there's very, very, veryfew things in this life.
There's very few things.
(32:04):
Like I I always go back to thisquote from uh there's this
movie.
Morgan Freeman was the actor init, and there's a scene.
He's this great principal, andbut you know, he makes a choice
uh to to uh uh in regards toschool anyway.
He gets thrown in jail becausehe was doing something at the
school, not bad, but justagainst like what other people
(32:24):
would have would have done.
And his friend is there and he'smore of like a politician, and
he's just like, Why can't youjust say you were sorry?
They'll let you out of jail.
You just you have to do this.
And Warrior Freeman jumps up outof the jail bed and says, I
ain't gotta do shit but stayblack and die.
There is nothing, he doesn't, hedoesn't have to do anything.
We don't have to do anything.
He was making a choice, he wasmaking a choice not to acquiesce
(32:46):
and he was making a choice tostay in jail.
He could have made a differentchoice and he could have been
released from jail, but he madea choice.
So we want to get curious aboutour choice because even before I
left corporate America, Istarted integrating some of this
work.
So, like I said, like I used tohate Mondays, and with that
awareness, I decided I'm gonnastart blocking Mondays and
(33:07):
Fridays.
No meetings.
I need time because what I knew,I needed time to actually work,
to create, to like center withinmyself all the expectations,
da-da-da-da-da.
And so I blocked my calendar.
And when people said, like, hey,are you free to meet on Monday?
I would say, nope, I'm not.
And if they said why, I said I'mbusy.
(33:28):
Because I was.
But there was a time where Isaid, like, no, I couldn't do
that.
I can't do that.
I can't block my calendar.
But I could.
So to those folks who like it,like in real estate, I would get
curious about that.
Like, what do you have to do?
Because even now, as a somaticexperiencing practitioner, I've
(33:51):
cultivated my schedule and Ichoose to do one-on-one
engagements Tuesday, Wednesday,and Thursday from 12 p.m.
to 4 p.m.
in Eastern.
Now I get people all the timewho say, Well, that doesn't work
for me.
Are you available at 8 a.m.?
Do you do Saturday sessions?
I do not.
But there could be a part of methat there's a need.
(34:14):
You need to be there for people.
Or the if I'm being real honest,but there's money.
You just gonna let that moneysit out there?
You need to go get that money.
I don't have to.
I don't have to.
I can make a choice to set theseboundaries.
And the real question is what ismy capacity to be with the
discomfort that comes withsetting those boundaries?
(34:34):
The discomfort that it cantrigger in other people, but
even the discomfort that itcauses within me.
So that would be the first placeI'd start.
SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Whole body goosebumps, because I think that
is such a fundamental skill thatI don't think women have
accessed in their body.
They have not.
And we're constantly lookingagain for that blueprint or that
permission or someone else tellme what to do, how to do it,
(35:03):
when to do it.
And I are you a Harry Potterfan?
This is so random.
This is a little side quest.
We are my son and I have startedreading it, and then we were
watching it, and we were readingand watching about Dobby.
Do you remember Dobby?
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yes, one of my favorite characters.
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
And I started having tears go down my face because
all of a sudden I was like, Iused to be like Dobby because he
would do something quote unquotewrong against his masters, and
he would self-punish himself.
And I had this thing in my bodygo, that's what you used to do.
You were so under this illusionof control that you controlled
(35:43):
yourself so fiercely and harshlyby masters that one you didn't
agree with, and two, that didn'tactually own power over you
anymore.
There was a time in my life,right, when you're when I was a
kid, when I was in these victimsituations, and that's been a
huge part of my healing isrecognizing and realizing I have
(36:03):
agency and choice here, and I'mallowed to do whatever the fuck
I want.
I on a regular basis in my mindgo, I remind myself, you are a
grown-ass adult.
No one is telling you what todo, no one is going to come
punish you.
And if they do, you have abackbone, you have a fist, you
have keys to a car.
You could literally do whateverthe hell you want.
(36:24):
And one of my favorite things islike, what's the most random,
offhanded thing I could do rightnow?
I could go do it.
I could go do it.
I don't want to do it.
But all of a sudden, when I saythat, it brings me back into
this.
What is it that I actually wantto do?
And what is it that I actuallyneed?
And it brings us back into thatchoice.
(36:45):
And I think that's so importantfor looking at these seasons
because we we live in a culturethat I think is so counter to
what we're talking about.
It is this always go, here iswhat success looks like, here's
the blueprint for success.
And we never even slow down togo, who told me this?
And do I even want to take theiradvice?
SPEAKER_02 (37:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Like, absolutely.
What?
I I'm I'm doing a littleexperiment in my business of
like, I'm literally allowed todo whatever the hell I want.
That's scary.
There's a little scary.
There's a little bit of Dobbyenergy of like, do I need to go
punish myself now?
Like, am I gonna get in trouble?
Is my business gonna fail?
And it's like, you know what?
(37:27):
Maybe it's a decay season.
I think I'm in a decay seasonfor work and I like it.
You know, it's like I've learnedto like it.
I've learned to like the decayand the winter of I don't know,
I guess it's slow right now.
Why don't I just embrace itinstead of forcing and going
against it or trying to manifestsomething else?
(37:50):
It's like, no, no, no, like whatif this is right where you're
supposed to be?
And I mean, how many women talkabout how they want presence?
Right.
They want they want to bepresent with their kids.
And I think so many women aregoing to miss presence with
their kids, especially we lookat the quote.
I'm using quotes here, theholidays coming up.
I want to throw up every time Ihave to go in a store right now.
(38:13):
I'm just like, can we simmer thefuck down, first of all, at the
expectations and the like newthemes for the season?
And it's like, what do youactually want?
Because last night we had theAurora Borealis.
You could see it from Colorado.
Oh, beautiful.
I am going on the most ADHDthing ever.
I am just off the rails rightnow.
(38:34):
We were outside looking at theAurora Borealis, and I was in so
much awe, and it was cold, and Iwas like, This, this is what I
want more of this winter season.
Right.
unknown (38:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
Staring outside at the Aurora Borealis.
I don't care about what colorChristmas is popular this year.
Like, who, I don't know.
All that to say, I think thatagency piece with if you couple
that with you have choice andwhere, where, where do you have
that?
Yeah, maybe you don't want to goquit your job tomorrow.
(39:05):
Okay, but if you stay, how doyou want to stay?
What can you change?
And can you at least?
I think a lot of people getscared to give themselves
permission because they think Ijust have to go jump.
And it's like that's a choice.
Some people do that.
You can also pendulate and takesmall little steps towards it
and see how it feels.
(39:26):
That's also an okay option.
And I think there's some womenwho will avoid taking that and
telling themselves the truth andhealing from burnout because
they're so terrified that myonly two options are stay the
same or burn it all down.
And it's like sometimes burningit all down is great.
And sometimes some women need alittle bit more incremental
(39:46):
building of self-trust andcapacity before they go and do
that.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, like I said, I mean, Idid I take the big jump.
Yeah, but I titrated into it byblocking my schedule by
experimenting with that.
And I want to say, even if youdon't feel like you have
capacity to do it within yourjob to start working cyclically,
start outside of your job, likeyou said, with the decor.
Even now coming into the holidayseason, I want you to play with
(40:11):
that.
I have to, I have to.
There are some things that Ilike to do.
I like to put up decorations,they're great.
I love it.
What I'm not gonna do, what Idon't have the capacity to do,
is do damn elf on the shelf.
I don't have capacity for it, sowe're not gonna do it.
It's just not gonna happen.
And so even my kids understandthat mom is not able to do all
the things all the time.
There are boundaries I have toset with my kids.
(40:32):
I may have the desire, I don'treally have the desire to do elf
on the shelf, but there is adesire to do other things, but I
don't always have the capacity.
It doesn't mean I won't have thecapacity, but I don't have it
right now.
And sometimes I have to tellthem no, or I have to tell them
not right now.
There are going to be days wherethey ask me, hey mom, can we go
to the park?
And I have to say, no, mom can'ttake you to the to the park
(40:54):
right now, but how about wewatch Moana together?
That's what I can do.
So instead of trying to do, likewe were talking about earlier,
trying to do all the things, beall the things, really drop in
and get curious about, no, Idon't have the capacity for that
right now.
But this is what I do have thecapacity for.
And yeah, I don't have thedesire to do all the things all
(41:18):
the time.
I don't want to be every woman.
I don't want to be a superwoman.
Y'all can have that.
Good luck with that.
I wish you the best.
But rather, I'm much, much, muchmore content in working with the
rhythms, the seasons, the wavesof my personal and professional
life.
And to what you were talkingabout earlier, I do want to
(41:41):
acknowledge, yes, the outsideforces of colonization are real.
The outside expectations arereal.
They are not going anywhere,they are there.
The real question though, andthis is the question I had to
ask myself that I find thatreally started to get that sort
of made you go, you know, mindexplode, was not just like the
(42:04):
outside forces of colonization,but I asked myself, how am I
colonizing myself?
How am I dominating myself everyday?
And do I fundamentally do I wantto be in relationship with
myself, in relationship with mybody and my being, or do I want
to be in domination of it?
And if I want to be inrelationship with it, there are
(42:25):
going to be some things thathave to change.
And yes, that means I am goingto be different than the way
some other people are.
I am going to be different thanthe expectations other people
have of me.
Now the question is, what is mycapacity to be with the
discomfort of not meeting theirexpectations?
And that's been been very, veryinteresting to be with when it
(42:45):
when it when it comes to thiswork.
Because like you were saying, wehave agency.
We have so much agency, so muchchoice, more than we realize.
But what we don't have iscontrol.
And the difference is agency ischoice.
Control is a guaranteed outcome.
I cannot control how otherpeople and organizations respond
to my cyclical and seasonalliving.
(43:08):
But I do have agency.
I do have choice as to how Ichoose to be in relationship
with them.
I have choice as to how I chooseto navigate.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Yeah.
Well, and there's there's allthese forces of nature.
And, you know, again, I thinkwe've been sold this message
that there's some way that wecan control or prevent or
sometimes mitigate the death anddecay parts of life.
And that we can always just be,I mean, even if you look at
birth, there's like, here's howwe like mitigate.
(43:39):
And it's like, I it's inherentlydangerous, it's inherently
magical, it's inherently likethere are no guarantees.
Even if you give all the rightgood girl steps, you follow the
rules, you do all the rightthings, it's like you still
might not get the outcome.
That's control.
And I think so many of us wereso intensely perfectionistic and
(43:59):
performance-based.
And you know, I'm speaking ofmyself here, and I consistently
have to remind myself like that,this is what it is.
This is what it is.
And coming back to letting go ofcontrol, it feels terrifying.
And sometimes for me, there's alittle the more I've healed, the
(44:19):
less it's external expectations,and it's more they're either the
externalized expectations thatbecome internalized, and now it
sounds like me, or it's my ownexpectations of I thought this
is how I would be as a mother.
This is how I thought I wouldtake care of the house.
And you know what?
Sometimes there's a little partof me who's also disappointed.
There's a little part of me whowould like to be better at that.
(44:42):
There's a part of me that wouldlove it if everything was shiny
and happy.
And also I know that when thatpart of me was leading my life,
it was more protective control.
Right.
And that stole so much presenceand connection from my life.
We decided that we're hostingThanksgiving for the first time
(45:05):
ever.
And it was wild because thefirst responses in my body was
like absolute pressure and panicof like all the shit I had, like
instant pressure, instantpressure.
And it wasn't in my mind, it waslike in my body.
And all of a sudden, I was like,this gets to look however it
wants to look.
And I truly want to do this, butI really had to like slow down
(45:28):
and remember like so many ofthese outside pressures and
masters, and like, here's whatyou have to do, and here's how
to do it.
It's like none of that matters.
And I looked around my house andI was like, I literally could
leave my house just like thisand host Thanksgiving if I
wanted to.
If you dirty dishes everywhere,I don't have to clean first.
And you know what?
(45:49):
I had this permission of youknow what?
Some of my favorite people hadsome messy houses, and when I
went, I cared not a single lickbecause they were so present and
connected and they were the mostkind people.
And I was like, none of myfamily actually cares either.
We have really great family, andso it's like, but I had to slow
that down of okay, what actuallymatters, what actually will feel
(46:12):
good.
And I think that's so importantin each season because success
is going to look different inevery season.
Personally, in motherhood.
I mean, I know like I've hitseasons of motherhood where I'm
like, we are golden, we aredoing so good.
I've got this.
And then sometimes within aweek, and I'm in this phase
right now, where all of a suddenI'm like, oh, we in a different
(46:35):
ballgame.
We are like the season haschanged.
What was working, it's no longerworking.
And so now we're in thistransition where it goes, okay,
what's not working anymore?
Can we allow that to pass away?
Can we transition in some newthings?
And transitions have a lot oftension to them.
I'm I'm not a huge scienceperson, but it's so interesting.
(46:57):
I was looking at this likeresistance and tension, and all
of a sudden I remembered thatlike the law of motion, every
object in motion stays inmotion.
An object at rest stays at restunless it's acted upon by an
unequal force.
How true is that with life?
There's a transition, it takesmore energy to start and stop.
(47:18):
But so often we just expectourselves to just be able to go
on and off, and we skip thatpart where there's a building or
a slowing of the tension and themovement.
SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, like you said, we justexpect ourselves to go on and
off.
And it's just not the way thehuman body works.
And I mean, uh I'll I'llacknowledge like the culture of
where this came from, you know,particularly within the United
States, or really just uh theWest, the West, if you want to
(47:50):
refer to it that way.
Post-industrialization,post-colonization, like, oh, we
can just have lights on all thetime, like we don't need rest.
If we can make a little, if alittle is good, more must be
better.
And as as as nations, it wasactually a trauma response.
It was like, if we can just keepworking, we'll keep making money
and we'll be safe.
(48:12):
And do we need money?
Yeah, we do.
But with anything, if we put oursafety outside of ourselves,
whether it's in in money,certain level of production,
it's conditional and neverenough.
That's why if a little is good,more must be better.
Well, if I if I produce at 85,then I'll be even safer if I
(48:32):
produce at 95.
Well, if I produce at 95, I'llbe even produ better, safer if I
produce, it'll just keep goingand going and going.
And so that's what's gotten usin the place where we are now,
where we try to trim the fat, soto speak, of those unnecessary
parts, those transitions.
You know, like even if we thinkabout literally the the the
birthing process, if we it'sbecome like a factory model,
(48:55):
we're just trying to do it asquickly and quote unquote
efficiently as possible, toreally uh suck out as much time
because time is money and moneyis time.
But this that is what has thatis what has gotten us in the
position where we are now, yeah,where many of us are
(49:16):
chronically, chronically burntout, we are in collapse, we are
not content, but we don't knowwhy, and we don't know another
way of being.
But I'll I'll I'll close withsaying as individuals and also
as nations, communities, groups,if our safety, if our sense of
(49:40):
self, if our value, if our worthis tied to productivity any form
of slowing down, any form ofrest will inherently be a
threat.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
Yeah, it's like when is enough enough?
And can you feel enoughness?
Like what is contentment, orrecently, like I've been talking
to my kids a lot about like playthat is boredom, like a puzzle.
Like I think so many of us areover and underwhelmed at the
same time.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (50:17):
It's I think there's so many people who are in the
type of burnout where their footis both on the gas and the brake
at the same time.
And it's like there's nosemblance of peace or connection
or safety in body or connectionor family.
And what you are talking aboutis just such a beautiful gift.
(50:40):
I think, especially right now inthis transitional season, I
think in so many ways, I just Ihave I've loved this
conversation with you.
It is just so life-giving to me.
And I hope it will be toeveryone else.
I'm curious, like, what is thebest place for I know people
will love this to learn moreabout you, to follow you.
(51:02):
Like, where is the best place tolike get connected with Camille
these days?
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, if you want to sort ofjust get connected with me, I am
on Instagram, Camille.leak.
You can find me there.
But also come check me out atHolistic Life Navigation, all up
and through there at differentwebinars and retreats.
We'll actually be doing aretreat out in Costa Rica at the
end of February, if you want tocome hang out with us there.
But in particular, if you'rereally interested around the
(51:28):
cyclical and seasonal leaveliving and working, again, go to
Holistic Life Navigation, thewebsite, and go to on-demand
learning.
And there's a 90-minute webinarif you just want to put your
toe, dip your toe in, hear alittle bit more about it.
But if you really, really wantto go a little bit deeper into
it, I have a four-part recordedcourse.
(51:49):
So it's to take you throughhelping you identify your
cycles, your rhythms on a daily,weekly, monthly, and yearly
basis.
So you could check out that thatcourse.
And then if you're really,really, really into this stuff,
keep keep an eye out on my myInstagram page as well as HLN
stuff, because next year I'mgoing to do a six-month uh slow
(52:12):
group.
So this will be a live session.
We'll meet once a week a groupof people who just want to work
with other people and myself toover the course of six months to
really go slow and deep intoidentifying their daily, weekly,
monthly, and yearly rhythms.
And this will be a slow groupand a space where we can
experiment, we can reflect, wecan observe, we can share what
(52:36):
we're playing with, not to justknow because sometimes we think
we, well, I should just knowwhat my rhythms are.
It's an iterative process.
And so we'll have this containerto support you as you go through
those iterations, as you gothrough the experimentation, the
observation, the iterationpivot, and then you do it again.
So those are three differentways in particular when it comes
to seasonal and cyclical livingand working, if you want to
(52:58):
explore it a bit further.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
I mean, that just sounds amazing.
And I just have to say, like, II send people to HLN all the
time.
What you guys, each of youthere, like Luis, you, I just it
has been such a gift to mepersonally and professionally.
And I think what's so beautifulis that it is truly connected
(53:22):
and relational.
And the slowness part, I thinkis actually so important because
I think there's a million placesyou can go to get information.
Very few places, I think, whereyou can go and get integration
and actual building of the skillin your own body, not just of
the, oh, Camille or Luis isgoing to give you a 10-step
(53:46):
blueprint.
It's like they are going to helpyou connect to the relationship
of you, yourself, your life.
And it's just such a gift, andit has just been such a
beautiful thing for me.
And just having you on thepodcast again has just been such
a joy.
So thank you so much for beingwith me today.
And if you guys love thispodcast, if you'll take a
(54:06):
moment, leave a review, share itwith a friend.
If you want to message me onsocial, definitely go follow
Camille.
We'd we'd love to hear from youand definitely share it about
with your friends.
So thank you so much for beinghere, and we'll see you next
time.
Thanks for joining me on today'sepisode of the Motherhood Mentor
(54:28):
Podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment, one
small tangible piece of workthat you can bring into your
life to get your hands a littledirty, to get your skin in the
game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
(54:51):
If this podcast moved you, if itinspired you, if it encouraged
you, please do me a favor andleave a review.
Send an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women.
And that's what we're doinghere.
So I hope you have an awesomeday.
(55:12):
Take really good care ofyourself, and I'll see you next
time.
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and this podcastis for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to healthhealing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do, it's support for who
we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
(00:25):
all of our self and hardhumidity as.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor podcast.
(00:47):
Today I have a repeat guest withme who I'm just so excited to
have back, Camille Leek.
I have just loved ourconversations and connection.
I first met Camille in the HLNHolistic Life Navigation course
and then some of their smallgroups.
And I just, I love the way thatyou teach, the way that you
facilitate.
(01:08):
I just, I love your embodimentthough, and just being in your
presence.
You are just so you.
And I'm just so excited for ourconversation today, especially
about cycles and living withoutburnout and how things need to
shift and even just that likesuperwoman, I can do it all
(01:28):
mentality and embodiment, whichI am super familiar with.
So will you introduce yourselfand just this work a little bit
that we're gonna dig into today?
SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so so happy to be back.
I really dig the space.
So thank you for letting me joinyou again.
And yeah, I'm I'm I work nowwith holistic life navigation,
uh helping folks, because I wasalso helping myself with the
trauma navigation as well asstress management.
(02:00):
But part of what brought me tothis phase of work, this phase
of life was I had a 15-year,quote unquote successful career
in corporate America.
But there came a point wherethat just wasn't sustainable for
me anymore.
Working 60, 70, sometimes 80hour weeks and just all the
(02:22):
other things that that wentalong with it, it hit a point
where my body and my spirit justcouldn't keep going.
I didn't like the way I wasshowing up as a mother, as a
wife, as a person.
And the idea of, well, I justgotta make it to retirement.
It wasn't, it wasn't workinganymore.
The idea of doing that another15 year, well, even the idea of
(02:45):
doing that another five years,let alone another 15 years or
trying to make it to retirement,just put me in so much
overwhelm.
So I I I knew I needed to leave.
Uh, but it wasn't just leavingthat I needed to do differently.
I could start doing my own thingand put myself back in burnout
again.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
By simply doing the same practices.
Uh and that's this, this iswhere cyclical and seasonal
living came in.
And to give you all a sense ofwhere I am in my annual cycle, I
am in the midst of full-on rampdown, decay.
I am autumn mode.
We are slowing down, no newthings are starting here.
This is this is a very slowenergy for me.
(03:27):
But one of the things that Inoticed within myself and within
other people is that we havethis expectation that if I can
do a certain thing at a certainlevel, at a certain intensity
one time, then that means Ishould be able to do it like
that all the time.
And if I can't, that meanssomething's wrong.
(03:47):
And then we get because of thatmindset, we get into this habit
of go, go, go, crash, go, go,go, crash, go, go, go, crash,
where we're oscillating betweenthese really high highs and
these really low lows.
And we wonder why we sink intothese depressions, or we wonder
why we go into collapse and wehave no energy.
But as soon as we start to get alittle energy back, what do we
(04:07):
do?
We go straight into full-ontrying to do everything, all the
things, and then that cycle justcontinues.
And it occurred to me one day,like, what if we just smooth out
that process?
And it really was it was reallysimple.
I just looked at the seasonswhere I live in the northern
hemisphere, like winter, spring,summer, fall.
(04:28):
What if those four seasons, whatif those four phases were built
into my day, my week, my month,my year?
What if there were dedicatedphases for ramping up, for
producing, for ramping down andrest?
And that I go through each ofthose phases in a smooth way
(04:51):
rather than jumping from thebinary of a really high high and
a really low low.
And again, like I said, I reallyjust looked to nature.
And I it actually even took meback to uh the life cycle that
many of us learned in biologyclass and freshman year of high
school or sophomore year of highschool, where it was birth,
growth, decay, death, birth,growth, decay, death, birth,
(05:15):
growth, decay, death.
This is a cycle that all livingthings grow through.
So why should I, as a humanbeing, think I am outside of
that cycle?
So there was a level of humilityto come into relationship with
that cycle, but also a level ofrecognition that, hey, yeah, bad
news, nothing lasts forever.
(05:35):
But hey, good news, nothinglasts forever.
Like just because I go into adeath rest phase doesn't mean
I'm gonna be stuck there becausethat death rest phase gives me
the time that I need to then goback into a birth phase, a ramp
up phase.
And that ramp up phase preparesme for a full-on execution,
production, growth phase.
But that can't last forever.
I'm gonna have to begin to rampdown a little bit to prepare
(05:58):
myself for so it justcontinuously feeds into one
another.
And I've loved reallyintegrating that for myself
professionally as well aspersonally.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
You just said so much good stuff.
I know I rambled my phone.
No, that was the best ramble.
I was like, just keep going.
I'll just be here sipping mycoffee.
You keep talking, I'll keep justlike drinking this in.
You it takes so much humility, Ithink.
And this is one of the thingsthat I have loved that like I
(06:28):
feel like somatics has given mean invitation back into humanity
in a way that I thought I neededto outrun it, outheal it.
And I think, you know, I'm a bigfan of like the personal growth
and development world.
But the more time I've spent in,I guess you could say the
somatics world, the more I haveseen there's just this intensity
(06:52):
of always growing and expansion.
And no one's ever talking aboutthe contraction or the decay and
the death, and how that's notsome, that's not a part we're
supposed to skip by some fancyblueprint of success.
And in fact, I work with a lotof women who have had massive
amounts of success and theirlives look really, really shiny.
(07:14):
And all of a sudden, life putsthem in this position where
they're like, I literally can'tbe in this summer anymore.
And there is so much shame andguilt because I think there's so
much messaging out there to allpeople.
But again, this podcast ismostly for women and mothers.
So I'm gonna speak to that lifeexperience of you can do it all,
(07:34):
you can have it all, and itlooks really easy and it's
always consistent and pretty.
And it's like that that thatthere's not like this, like, oh,
that's not possible for you.
It is this like, okay, butthat's not the full picture.
And we're not talking about theseasons and like what it takes
to get there and the realitythat even once you're quote
unquote there, you're stillgonna maybe have moments where
(07:58):
you want or need to contract orslow down.
And I don't know about you, butI'm a metaphor girl.
And I had this metaphor ofburnout for me where I was like,
it was like I was driving thiscar, and the only options my
body knew were every time I hitthe gas, I go 75.
And every time I hit the brakes,it's like full collapse and
(08:20):
burnout.
And it's like my like my somapersonally and professionally,
it's like I only knew this likeall out or nothing.
Right.
And for me, it's like, okay,going 75 on the highway with
some loud, like millennial rap,like beautiful, love it.
(08:40):
Going 75 in a school zone whenmy kids freaking out in the
back, like, not ideal.
Like, I need to be able to slowdown and speed up.
And the more I think aboutsuccess and safety and nervous
system regulation, which like Iknow you have a thing with
buzzwords.
I loved the podcast episodeswhere you and Luis like talked
about all of the like healingwords.
(09:02):
One of my favorite episodes.
But that like how you stay outof burnout is not that you have
to slam the brakes.
It's that you learn how to usethe gas and the brakes
appropriately when needed.
And I have to laugh because justthis morning I was thinking to
myself, I'm in my follicularlike ovulation phase right now,
(09:22):
and I am like high vibing.
I have all this creative energy.
I like, I feel like I couldconquer the world.
I'm like so sturdy and stable,and I feel so shiny and happy
and sexy.
And I had this moment of like,oh, I just want to feel like
this all the time.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
But that's not reality.
It's not, it's just like, yeah,great ideal, great desire, but
like that's just that's just notwhat life is.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Yeah, yeah.
No, no, it's not.
And and I it's nice to have thatdesire.
It's not like, oh, this is thisis this is amazing.
I wish it could last forever.
It's not, but it doesn't meanthat it won't come back around
again.
Like I I personally I'm not adoctor, so y'all don't come for
me.
This is just my personalopinion.
(10:08):
But even when we put labels onthings like seasonal affective
disorder or even PMS, like Idon't think it's necessarily
seasonal affective disorder.
I don't even think it's PMS.
Our bodies are respondingappropriate to that particular
situation.
That is, our bodies are slowingdown because it is getting
colder, because the the days aregetting shorter.
(10:30):
We are going to sleep morebecause it's darker and colder.
I don't think that's a disorder.
I don't even think it'snecessarily a syndrome that when
I'm in my luteal phase, about togo into my menstrual phase, that
I'm a little bit more tired, I'mcrampy.
That's just the cycle.
And we have to put these thesewords, these conditions, these
disorders on things when we'renot quote unquote outside of our
(10:53):
prime.
But I gotta say, I have reallyloved, loved, loved embracing my
phases of decay and death or myphases of ramp down and rest.
I have instituted a practice ofhaving annual depression
hibernation periods.
And I just embrace the factthat, yeah, November, December,
January, it's those are verycontracting periods of the year
(11:18):
for me.
I tell all my Capricorn friends,I love you, but no, I'm not
coming to your birthday parties.
I'm not coming.
That's just not what I do inJanuary.
I don't do external things.
That is a very, very dark monthfor me.
But because I embrace thedarkness of that month, because
I embrace the solitude of thatmonth, I there comes a point
where I start to feel myselflike, you know, actually, I kind
(11:38):
of want to start going out.
I want to start seeing people, Iwant to start doing things
rather than just lamenting thefact, like, what's wrong with
me?
How come you don't want to go tothe party?
Just get up, Camille, do thethings.
No, that's just not where we areright now.
And the key part is right nowthat if I can embrace where I am
right now, there will comeanother phase.
SPEAKER_00 (11:58):
Yeah, it's like you're finding safety and
success right there in your bodyand where you are.
Like you're orienting to wheream I?
Who am I in this moment?
I know I used to have everymonth when I would get luteal or
when I'd have those seasons anda slowdown, I would get that
(12:19):
like internal meaning making ofI don't know who I am, or you're
like, I don't feel like myself.
And I remember one of myretreats, I was super luteal.
And I have like a pretty intensePMDD luteal phase where like I
get real dark, real emotional,real sensitive.
(12:39):
And it's hard to explain topeople how learning to embrace
that, learning to realize, like,oh wait, actually today, this is
me.
This is these are my bones, thisis my body, this is my heart,
this is my breath.
Where is my capacity?
What is my actual energy andcompassion?
(13:00):
And that's how I led and startedthe retreat is literally in
tears telling everyone, like,hey, hi, I don't feel like shiny
Becca.
And I'm not gonna make that meananything because if you walked
in the door and you were just amess, I would be like, good, I
love you, messy, bring yourmess.
But then when it's myself, Itend to have a lot of judgment
(13:20):
and like I should be thiscertain way.
But I think I have started tomake meaning that my humanity is
just as worthy and wonderful andnot so terrifying.
Like it's it's really like, butdid you die?
It's like, no, like I'm stillalive.
Can I find the aliveness even inthose, even in those dark, hard
(13:45):
winter or fall months?
It's like that composting issuch an important part.
And I still panic a little.
I still have a little bit ofresistance or fear in me of
like, oh wait, no, but this isjust the life cycle.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah.
And I and I really love thatpart.
This is just a life cycle.
Sometimes we think of decay anddeath as being the opposite of
life.
For me, it is a part of life, itis a part of the life cycle.
I I cannot give birth withoutdeath.
If it is my desire to birthsomething, to grow something, I
(14:21):
also need to go through periodsof decay and death in order for
that to come about.
So it's really for me been animperative not to think of these
as mutually exclusive opposites,but really phases that feed into
one another, that support oneanother.
And by doing that, and peopleare kind of surprised, like when
(14:45):
I describe uh working and livingseasonally and cyclically, that
I am actually much, much moreproductive by doing less because
I have these dedicated phases,these dedicated uh times in my
rhythm where I am producing, butI have these other phases that
help to cultivate so that whatdoes come out of those
(15:08):
production and growth phases isso rich, is so potent, but it
doesn't have to be where I amall the time.
And you know, cyclical livingisn't completely alien to us,
you know.
When I talk to people aboutthis, and they're like, I don't
get it, this doesn't make anysense.
At the very least, what mostpeople can understand is that
(15:30):
the capacity I have at 3 p.m.
in the afternoon is not the samecapacity I have at 3 a.m.
in the morning.
And you generally wouldn'texpect me to show up and be
doing the same things at 3 a.m.
as I would at as you would at 3p.m.
Most people can like, yeah, thatmakes sense.
All it is then is expanding thatto the week, to the month, to
(15:50):
the year.
So even if it seems a littlealien to you, the idea of living
seasonally or cyclically orgetting into a rhythm, think
even just about 3 a.m.
versus 3 p.m.
Oh, generally we are doingdifferent things at those times.
And then what would it be liketo apply that same mindset to
your week, your month, or youryear?
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Yeah, and I'm even thinking seasons of motherhood,
because I know I've worked witha lot of women who, especially
women who built a lot of like itsounds like you experienced this
like corporate success orbusiness success, and like a lot
of their identity was tied intothat, not just of success, but I
think underneath that there's asecurity and safety.
(16:33):
And I think they get into thismotherhood season.
And for some women, theircapacity, their desire, that
piece is so big.
There's some women who lose somecapacity for business or for
work or for their creativeoutlets in motherhood.
But I think there's also somewomen who lose their desire or
(16:53):
their desire shifts.
It's not that it's gone, it'sjust that it's shifted to
something else.
And I think it's so beautiful towitness like this is just a
season, and maybe it changes forgood, but it will be for your
good.
It will be for the good and it'sokay.
But I think it brings, I ourculture has such a selling of
(17:17):
sustained success, and this iswhat it looks like.
And I don't know about you, butI am so tired of seeing here's
the perfect blueprint forsuccess and what it looks like
for me.
And it's like one, it's almostalways this very rigid,
consumeristic, here's a perfect10-step process.
(17:38):
But I think a lot of times whatthey don't what they're not
saying, but that what people arehearing and feeling, because I
work with women who are verysmart and they're still
comparing themselves to theseblueprints or these people
selling it, where there's someway that I can skip the part
where there's composting, wherethere's decay, where there's
(17:58):
death, where there's struggle,where there's a fall or a
winter, or a birth season, whichby the way, like I had I had a
pretty beautiful birth.
Like I think especially of mysecond birth, it was a beautiful
birth.
It was like, couldn't ask forbetter.
That was a shit ton of work.
And I thought my butthole wasgonna rip open and I was in pain
and I had to face parts ofmyself that were overwhelming
(18:21):
and activating, and I was cryingand yelling, and I thought I was
gonna die.
And I was looking at my midwife,was like, is the baby ever gonna
come?
And it was so funny because Ilooked at her and I was like, is
the baby really coming?
She was like, if not, this is apretty weird party.
Like you're naked in a bathtub,your husband's here, there's two
women, like this is weird ifthere's no baby coming.
And I was like, You're right.
(18:43):
But I think, I think we'realways looking for a way to opt
out of the human experience.
Yes, instead of being in thehuman experience.
It's like, wait, no, no, no.
What if we like sunk into it?
And I love this concept ofseasonal living.
And I'm curious, like, if wewant to go in the direction of
like talking about thosedifferent seasons, what they
(19:04):
look like and how we embracethem.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (19:09):
And yeah, that that idea of okay.
So let me back up.
I was saying, yeah, yeah.
Uh so there are generally likefour seasons I I work with, like
I said, birth, growth, decay,and death, if you're thinking
about it in terms of the lifecycle.
I also talk about it in terms oflike a capacity life cycle.
(19:29):
So you can think of that interms of like a phase to ramp
up, a phase to produce andexecute, a phase to ramp down,
and a phase to rest.
And then if you love analogiesas I do, um, you can just think
of the four seasons that wegenerally experience, like in
the in the northern hemisphere,spring, summer, autumn, and
winter.
And the how these look for eachof us is going to be different
(19:53):
on a daily, weekly, monthly, andyearly space or basis.
And it's going to look differentfor each person.
And I wanted to bring this in,especially to your point around
a blueprint.
Because whenever I teach livingseasonally and cyclically, well,
just tell me what I'm supposedto do on Monday and at 6 a.m.
And what am I supposed to bedoing?
Tell me what to do in winter.
Talk what am I supposed to bedoing in winter?
(20:14):
What is it?
I can't tell you because each ofus are going to have different
rhythms.
Each of us are going to havedifferent cycles.
What I do like to support peoplein doing is coming into
relationship with what yourparticular cycle may be, but I
can't tell you.
Even for women who menstruate,they think, okay, so when I'm
menstruating, I'm supposed to bedoing this.
And when I'm ovulating, this iswhat no, I can't tell you that.
(20:35):
For some people duringmenstruation week, that is going
to be their winter week.
That's going to be their restweek.
But for some people, that'sactually their growth week.
That's when they feel at theirhighest capacity.
And neither one is right,neither one is wrong.
It's about understanding whichone works for you.
unknown (20:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
So less I love I just want to pause there, have
everyone take that in because Ithink that I think so many women
need that permission because weare looking for some expert,
some therapist, some coach, somepodcast, some book to tell us
what to do.
And it's like you and your bodyand your babies and your home
(21:16):
and your relationships arefundamentally different.
And slowing down to payattention and have a
relationship to where are you?
What are you experiencing?
And what does health look likeright here and now?
What does honoring the life inyou, the desire in you, the
(21:36):
capacity, what does it look likeright here and now?
And how can you get to know someof your cycles, your highs, your
lows, the middles, the betweens?
I think that's so important.
And I love that that's like theplace where we start.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Yes.
Yes.
And so what I'll share is kindof a description of the four
phases.
And then I can even give someexamples of how they manifest
for me on different timescales,as well as professionally and
personally.
So let's start with my personalfavorite: the death and rest
phase.
So this is when we're so if youkind of think about it as a
(22:13):
wave, this would be the lowertrough.
So this is when our capacitymight be its lowest.
And for many of us, this is whatwe can overcouple with being
bad, like this is the bad time.
But what if we just look at itfor what it is?
This is when our capacity isgenerally its lowest.
And by capacity, I'm going tomean say, like, you know, energy
and time, because I'll also talkabout capacity and another
(22:35):
concept in a little bit.
But so this is generally whenour capacity is going to be the
lowest.
So death, our death phase, ourrest phase.
Then we can move into our birthphase, our ramp up phase.
And this is a really importantphase that we generally skip
over because most of us go fromzero to a hundred.
Either we're in death or we'rein production.
(22:57):
We jump where we're asleep or wejump out of bed and we do all
the things.
Yeah.
But we really want to institutetransition phases.
This birth phase is importantbecause we are easing out of
rest and death, but we're not,and we're preparing ourselves
for that growth, for thatproduction phase, but we're not
fully there yet.
(23:18):
This is the phase where weactually get to cultivate our
capacity.
That is, what are the things weneed to put in place in order
for that production, in orderfor that growth to actually
happen?
So you can think of this, thisis what might be the
brainstorming phase.
You can also think of this assomewhat of a self-care phase.
Um, so for example, if I thinkabout this on my my daily
(23:41):
schedule, for me, my birthphase, my ramp up phase is 4
a.m.
Yes, I like to work at wake upat 4 a.m.
That's just me.
I'm not telling y'all, y'allgotta get up at 4 a.m.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
This is my cycle.
Thank God, because immediately Iwas like, immediately no.
SPEAKER_02 (23:56):
So my ramp up phase is from 4 a.m.
to 10 a.m.
So I take those six hours out ofthe day to prepare myself for
the growth, the production.
So in those four hours, likeeven the first four hours of
that six hours from 4 a.m.
to 8 a.m.
That's just my time.
Forget my husband, forget mykids, forget work.
(24:19):
That's just me.
That is my time to get up and Imight go to the gym, I might do
some yoga, I might write in myjournal, I might do some
meditation and prayer, I mightjust sit in the dark and be with
myself.
I might take a bath, what Imight make myself some
breakfast.
And those four hours, that is mytime to tend to my container,
(24:44):
nobody else.
Like I said, no work, nohusband, no kids, no phone, no
email, nothing.
That sounds magic.
It is, it is my favorite time ofthe day.
I love it.
It's my favorite time of day.
People are freaked out when Itell them my favorite time of
day is 4 a.m.
to 6 a.m.
They're like, what are youtalking about?
But I love it.
It is absolute magic.
And I need that phase in orderto then prepare me for the next
(25:07):
phase.
So that's why you could think ofit as a self-care, but this is
also gonna be a brainstormingphase.
So if I think about it on myannual cycle, this kind of for
me aligns with like springtime,so the March, April, May period.
This is when I'm starting likebrainstorming things I might
want to put into fruition, maybeeven just starting to put some
things into fruit to fruition,making connections with people,
(25:31):
talking, setting up the bones ofevents that will be later to
come.
But again, like just setting upthe foundation, putting helping
to create the container.
But then after ramp up, afterour birth phase, now we get to
go into growth, we get to gointo production.
And like I say, this is whenwe're doing all the things.
This is when when we're we'reclicking on all cylinders.
(25:52):
And so for me, like if I was togive you my weekly schedule,
this is Tuesday, Wednesday, andThursday for me.
So Monday, I like to ramp up.
Like I might check some emails,look at my schedule, but I'm not
really doing all the things onTuesday, Wednesday, and
Thursday.
That's when I'm givingpresentations and workshops.
That's this is when I'm doingone-on-one sessions.
(26:14):
This is might be what I'm doingin-person events.
So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,that is my time of the week
where I'm just kind of likedoing doing the most.
But I need Monday to bedifferent.
I need Monday to be that ramp upto prepare me for Tuesday and
Wednesday and Thursday.
And this is how I knew I wasdoing something different and
magical because I used to, I'mabout to curse again.
(26:37):
I love it.
I used to fucking hate Mondaysat work when I was in the
corporate space.
I hated them.
I hate I even hated Sundaysbecause I would just spend
Sunday, like Monday is coming.
Monday scary, yeah.
Hated it because 8 a.m.
Monday jumped right into doingall the things.
It was just like, oh my God, itjust never stops.
But to consciously create a dayof the week that isn't the most,
(27:01):
that isn't at the height ofeverything, that allows me to
ease into it, creates capacityfor me to do all those things on
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.
And you know, for if I thinkabout it on my sort of my
monthly for me, that I whetherit's like with the moon,
sometimes I track the moon, itcan be with the full moon, or
even with my my my inner moonschedule or or or rhythm that
(27:24):
could be my ovulation time.
That's when I'm a bit moreextroverted.
A girlfriend calls is like, hey,you want to go to this event?
Yes, this is the time.
Let's do it.
Like this is when I'm feelingit.
Like I'm a bit more engaged.
So that's when I might plan moresocial events, more networking
events.
But this does not last forever.
And thank God, because it'sexhausting.
(27:46):
It's a lot.
Because then we want to start toramp down.
And again, just like ramp up,ramp down and decay is an
important transition period.
And it's a period we think wedon't need, but we really do.
And this is particularlyimportant if we think about it,
even on a daily schedule.
When we say, like, I just can'tseem to fall asleep.
Well, part of the reason wecan't seem to fall asleep is we
(28:07):
actually don't have thistransition phase.
We don't have this phase fromdoing all the things to actually
going to sleep.
The body needs space totransition, even if it's just
not seeing screens for a littlebit, not having lights at their
full brightness.
So really creating a container,a phase of the day where I
transition out of doing all thethings, running around, to
(28:30):
preparing my body for rest.
It seems like sleep would justbe easy.
And yeah, many of us collapse,but actually letting ourselves
fall asleep, there has to be atransition period.
And so whether it's in the day,which is really important.
So for me, that's going to be 4p.m.
to 10 p.m.
And during that time, there'ssort of like this domino of
(28:53):
things that I like to do ofturning off the computer or
dimming the lights.
There's time to cook dinner,time for me to reconnect with my
husband and my kids, reading abook or listening to a podcast
before I actually fall asleep.
Those kinds of things.
Or if I think about it within,like I shared earlier, within
the year, like right now, thisis I'm in my decay phase where
(29:15):
I'm still working, but not atthe same intensity I was over
the summer.
So this is a time of year wheregenerally I'm no, I'm not going
to be traveling for events.
I'm not going to be doingretreats out of the country.
Um, I'm not starting newprojects.
I'm finishing projects that werealready in place.
And I'm not even really thinkingnecessarily about projects for
next year, but taking a littletime to reflect on this year and
(29:36):
just make notes of some things Imight want to carry into next
year, things I may want to dodifferently.
But this is really anopportunity for me to bring some
things to a close and allowmyself then to enter into my
depression and hibernationperiod.
So I know that was a lot.
I'm gonna pause, check in withyou.
SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
I love that.
And I think the pacing of that.
Was so great.
And I loved hearing all of it insync.
It's making me reflect on my owncycles and how they're
different.
And I think that's what'sbeautiful too, is like there's
similarities in like the seasonswe experience.
But like even when you weretalking about like when you
(30:17):
experience them, like my falland winter are pretty normal.
But like for me, summer is notproductive when I think of work.
Now there's a lot of extrovertand like fun, playful energy for
summer.
But when it comes to mybusiness, that shit goes on the
back burner.
Like one from capacity, two,just like my desire to work is
(30:38):
less in the summer.
But I know that season now.
So now I know like don't plan abunch of launches or like new
programs in the summer.
And I think too, honoring,honoring that cycle is so
delicious.
And I think one of the things Iwas thinking of is there's going
to be people who hear this andthey immediately feel permission
(31:00):
to use that privilege of beingable to shape their lives and
their businesses.
And I think there's going to bepeople who are going, my work
doesn't account for that, right?
Like I'm thinking of likeclients who are real estate
agents for a perfect example,where there's like there is,
there is no work life balance.
They're like they're in abusiness where there is a lot of
(31:21):
intensity.
I'm using their phrasing withthose work-life balance.
There, there's a constant needand vision of what I have to do
for success.
For you, how do you help thosewomen and those people figure
out their cyclical living withinwhere they have a little bit
less choice or agency orprivilege there?
(31:42):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Cause I would even gently, gently and with so much
compassion, challenge whether ornot you don't have as much
agency as you think you do.
Whenever we use the term haveto, you gotta get curious.
There's there's very, very, veryfew things in this life.
There's very few things.
(32:04):
Like I I always go back to thisquote from uh there's this
movie.
Morgan Freeman was the actor init, and there's a scene.
He's this great principal, andbut you know, he makes a choice
uh to to uh uh in regards toschool anyway.
He gets thrown in jail becausehe was doing something at the
school, not bad, but justagainst like what other people
(32:24):
would have would have done.
And his friend is there and he'smore of like a politician, and
he's just like, Why can't youjust say you were sorry?
They'll let you out of jail.
You just you have to do this.
And Warrior Freeman jumps up outof the jail bed and says, I
ain't gotta do shit but stayblack and die.
There is nothing, he doesn't, hedoesn't have to do anything.
We don't have to do anything.
He was making a choice, he wasmaking a choice not to acquiesce
(32:46):
and he was making a choice tostay in jail.
He could have made a differentchoice and he could have been
released from jail, but he madea choice.
So we want to get curious aboutour choice because even before I
left corporate America, Istarted integrating some of this
work.
So, like I said, like I used tohate Mondays, and with that
awareness, I decided I'm gonnastart blocking Mondays and
(33:07):
Fridays.
No meetings.
I need time because what I knew,I needed time to actually work,
to create, to like center withinmyself all the expectations,
da-da-da-da-da.
And so I blocked my calendar.
And when people said, like, hey,are you free to meet on Monday?
I would say, nope, I'm not.
And if they said why, I said I'mbusy.
(33:28):
Because I was.
But there was a time where Isaid, like, no, I couldn't do
that.
I can't do that.
I can't block my calendar.
But I could.
So to those folks who like it,like in real estate, I would get
curious about that.
Like, what do you have to do?
Because even now, as a somaticexperiencing practitioner, I've
(33:51):
cultivated my schedule and Ichoose to do one-on-one
engagements Tuesday, Wednesday,and Thursday from 12 p.m.
to 4 p.m.
in Eastern.
Now I get people all the timewho say, Well, that doesn't work
for me.
Are you available at 8 a.m.?
Do you do Saturday sessions?
I do not.
But there could be a part of methat there's a need.
(34:14):
You need to be there for people.
Or the if I'm being real honest,but there's money.
You just gonna let that moneysit out there?
You need to go get that money.
I don't have to.
I don't have to.
I can make a choice to set theseboundaries.
And the real question is what ismy capacity to be with the
discomfort that comes withsetting those boundaries?
(34:34):
The discomfort that it cantrigger in other people, but
even the discomfort that itcauses within me.
So that would be the first placeI'd start.
SPEAKER_00 (34:42):
Whole body goosebumps, because I think that
is such a fundamental skill thatI don't think women have
accessed in their body.
They have not.
And we're constantly lookingagain for that blueprint or that
permission or someone else tellme what to do, how to do it,
(35:03):
when to do it.
And I are you a Harry Potterfan?
This is so random.
This is a little side quest.
We are my son and I have startedreading it, and then we were
watching it, and we were readingand watching about Dobby.
Do you remember Dobby?
SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yes, one of my favorite characters.
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
And I started having tears go down my face because
all of a sudden I was like, Iused to be like Dobby because he
would do something quote unquotewrong against his masters, and
he would self-punish himself.
And I had this thing in my bodygo, that's what you used to do.
You were so under this illusionof control that you controlled
(35:43):
yourself so fiercely and harshlyby masters that one you didn't
agree with, and two, that didn'tactually own power over you
anymore.
There was a time in my life,right, when you're when I was a
kid, when I was in these victimsituations, and that's been a
huge part of my healing isrecognizing and realizing I have
(36:03):
agency and choice here, and I'mallowed to do whatever the fuck
I want.
I on a regular basis in my mindgo, I remind myself, you are a
grown-ass adult.
No one is telling you what todo, no one is going to come
punish you.
And if they do, you have abackbone, you have a fist, you
have keys to a car.
You could literally do whateverthe hell you want.
(36:24):
And one of my favorite things islike, what's the most random,
offhanded thing I could do rightnow?
I could go do it.
I could go do it.
I don't want to do it.
But all of a sudden, when I saythat, it brings me back into
this.
What is it that I actually wantto do?
And what is it that I actuallyneed?
And it brings us back into thatchoice.
(36:45):
And I think that's so importantfor looking at these seasons
because we we live in a culturethat I think is so counter to
what we're talking about.
It is this always go, here iswhat success looks like, here's
the blueprint for success.
And we never even slow down togo, who told me this?
And do I even want to take theiradvice?
SPEAKER_02 (37:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Like, absolutely.
What?
I I'm I'm doing a littleexperiment in my business of
like, I'm literally allowed todo whatever the hell I want.
That's scary.
There's a little scary.
There's a little bit of Dobbyenergy of like, do I need to go
punish myself now?
Like, am I gonna get in trouble?
Is my business gonna fail?
And it's like, you know what?
(37:27):
Maybe it's a decay season.
I think I'm in a decay seasonfor work and I like it.
You know, it's like I've learnedto like it.
I've learned to like the decayand the winter of I don't know,
I guess it's slow right now.
Why don't I just embrace itinstead of forcing and going
against it or trying to manifestsomething else?
(37:50):
It's like, no, no, no, like whatif this is right where you're
supposed to be?
And I mean, how many women talkabout how they want presence?
Right.
They want they want to bepresent with their kids.
And I think so many women aregoing to miss presence with
their kids, especially we lookat the quote.
I'm using quotes here, theholidays coming up.
I want to throw up every time Ihave to go in a store right now.
(38:13):
I'm just like, can we simmer thefuck down, first of all, at the
expectations and the like newthemes for the season?
And it's like, what do youactually want?
Because last night we had theAurora Borealis.
You could see it from Colorado.
Oh, beautiful.
I am going on the most ADHDthing ever.
I am just off the rails rightnow.
(38:34):
We were outside looking at theAurora Borealis, and I was in so
much awe, and it was cold, and Iwas like, This, this is what I
want more of this winter season.
Right.
unknown (38:44):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
Staring outside at the Aurora Borealis.
I don't care about what colorChristmas is popular this year.
Like, who, I don't know.
All that to say, I think thatagency piece with if you couple
that with you have choice andwhere, where, where do you have
that?
Yeah, maybe you don't want to goquit your job tomorrow.
(39:05):
Okay, but if you stay, how doyou want to stay?
What can you change?
And can you at least?
I think a lot of people getscared to give themselves
permission because they think Ijust have to go jump.
And it's like that's a choice.
Some people do that.
You can also pendulate and takesmall little steps towards it
and see how it feels.
(39:26):
That's also an okay option.
And I think there's some womenwho will avoid taking that and
telling themselves the truth andhealing from burnout because
they're so terrified that myonly two options are stay the
same or burn it all down.
And it's like sometimes burningit all down is great.
And sometimes some women need alittle bit more incremental
(39:46):
building of self-trust andcapacity before they go and do
that.
SPEAKER_02 (39:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, like I said, I mean, Idid I take the big jump.
Yeah, but I titrated into it byblocking my schedule by
experimenting with that.
And I want to say, even if youdon't feel like you have
capacity to do it within yourjob to start working cyclically,
start outside of your job, likeyou said, with the decor.
Even now coming into the holidayseason, I want you to play with
(40:11):
that.
I have to, I have to.
There are some things that Ilike to do.
I like to put up decorations,they're great.
I love it.
What I'm not gonna do, what Idon't have the capacity to do,
is do damn elf on the shelf.
I don't have capacity for it, sowe're not gonna do it.
It's just not gonna happen.
And so even my kids understandthat mom is not able to do all
the things all the time.
There are boundaries I have toset with my kids.
(40:32):
I may have the desire, I don'treally have the desire to do elf
on the shelf, but there is adesire to do other things, but I
don't always have the capacity.
It doesn't mean I won't have thecapacity, but I don't have it
right now.
And sometimes I have to tellthem no, or I have to tell them
not right now.
There are going to be days wherethey ask me, hey mom, can we go
to the park?
And I have to say, no, mom can'ttake you to the to the park
(40:54):
right now, but how about wewatch Moana together?
That's what I can do.
So instead of trying to do, likewe were talking about earlier,
trying to do all the things, beall the things, really drop in
and get curious about, no, Idon't have the capacity for that
right now.
But this is what I do have thecapacity for.
And yeah, I don't have thedesire to do all the things all
(41:18):
the time.
I don't want to be every woman.
I don't want to be a superwoman.
Y'all can have that.
Good luck with that.
I wish you the best.
But rather, I'm much, much, muchmore content in working with the
rhythms, the seasons, the wavesof my personal and professional
life.
And to what you were talkingabout earlier, I do want to
(41:41):
acknowledge, yes, the outsideforces of colonization are real.
The outside expectations arereal.
They are not going anywhere,they are there.
The real question though, andthis is the question I had to
ask myself that I find thatreally started to get that sort
of made you go, you know, mindexplode, was not just like the
(42:04):
outside forces of colonization,but I asked myself, how am I
colonizing myself?
How am I dominating myself everyday?
And do I fundamentally do I wantto be in relationship with
myself, in relationship with mybody and my being, or do I want
to be in domination of it?
And if I want to be inrelationship with it, there are
(42:25):
going to be some things thathave to change.
And yes, that means I am goingto be different than the way
some other people are.
I am going to be different thanthe expectations other people
have of me.
Now the question is, what is mycapacity to be with the
discomfort of not meeting theirexpectations?
And that's been been very, veryinteresting to be with when it
(42:45):
when it when it comes to thiswork.
Because like you were saying, wehave agency.
We have so much agency, so muchchoice, more than we realize.
But what we don't have iscontrol.
And the difference is agency ischoice.
Control is a guaranteed outcome.
I cannot control how otherpeople and organizations respond
to my cyclical and seasonalliving.
(43:08):
But I do have agency.
I do have choice as to how Ichoose to be in relationship
with them.
I have choice as to how I chooseto navigate.
SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Yeah.
Well, and there's there's allthese forces of nature.
And, you know, again, I thinkwe've been sold this message
that there's some way that wecan control or prevent or
sometimes mitigate the death anddecay parts of life.
And that we can always just be,I mean, even if you look at
birth, there's like, here's howwe like mitigate.
(43:39):
And it's like, I it's inherentlydangerous, it's inherently
magical, it's inherently likethere are no guarantees.
Even if you give all the rightgood girl steps, you follow the
rules, you do all the rightthings, it's like you still
might not get the outcome.
That's control.
And I think so many of us wereso intensely perfectionistic and
(43:59):
performance-based.
And you know, I'm speaking ofmyself here, and I consistently
have to remind myself like that,this is what it is.
This is what it is.
And coming back to letting go ofcontrol, it feels terrifying.
And sometimes for me, there's alittle the more I've healed, the
(44:19):
less it's external expectations,and it's more they're either the
externalized expectations thatbecome internalized, and now it
sounds like me, or it's my ownexpectations of I thought this
is how I would be as a mother.
This is how I thought I wouldtake care of the house.
And you know what?
Sometimes there's a little partof me who's also disappointed.
There's a little part of me whowould like to be better at that.
(44:42):
There's a part of me that wouldlove it if everything was shiny
and happy.
And also I know that when thatpart of me was leading my life,
it was more protective control.
Right.
And that stole so much presenceand connection from my life.
We decided that we're hostingThanksgiving for the first time
(45:05):
ever.
And it was wild because thefirst responses in my body was
like absolute pressure and panicof like all the shit I had, like
instant pressure, instantpressure.
And it wasn't in my mind, it waslike in my body.
And all of a sudden, I was like,this gets to look however it
wants to look.
And I truly want to do this, butI really had to like slow down
(45:28):
and remember like so many ofthese outside pressures and
masters, and like, here's whatyou have to do, and here's how
to do it.
It's like none of that matters.
And I looked around my house andI was like, I literally could
leave my house just like thisand host Thanksgiving if I
wanted to.
If you dirty dishes everywhere,I don't have to clean first.
And you know what?
(45:49):
I had this permission of youknow what?
Some of my favorite people hadsome messy houses, and when I
went, I cared not a single lickbecause they were so present and
connected and they were the mostkind people.
And I was like, none of myfamily actually cares either.
We have really great family, andso it's like, but I had to slow
that down of okay, what actuallymatters, what actually will feel
(46:12):
good.
And I think that's so importantin each season because success
is going to look different inevery season.
Personally, in motherhood.
I mean, I know like I've hitseasons of motherhood where I'm
like, we are golden, we aredoing so good.
I've got this.
And then sometimes within aweek, and I'm in this phase
right now, where all of a suddenI'm like, oh, we in a different
(46:35):
ballgame.
We are like the season haschanged.
What was working, it's no longerworking.
And so now we're in thistransition where it goes, okay,
what's not working anymore?
Can we allow that to pass away?
Can we transition in some newthings?
And transitions have a lot oftension to them.
I'm I'm not a huge scienceperson, but it's so interesting.
(46:57):
I was looking at this likeresistance and tension, and all
of a sudden I remembered thatlike the law of motion, every
object in motion stays inmotion.
An object at rest stays at restunless it's acted upon by an
unequal force.
How true is that with life?
There's a transition, it takesmore energy to start and stop.
(47:18):
But so often we just expectourselves to just be able to go
on and off, and we skip thatpart where there's a building or
a slowing of the tension and themovement.
SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean, like you said, we justexpect ourselves to go on and
off.
And it's just not the way thehuman body works.
And I mean, uh I'll I'llacknowledge like the culture of
where this came from, you know,particularly within the United
States, or really just uh theWest, the West, if you want to
(47:50):
refer to it that way.
Post-industrialization,post-colonization, like, oh, we
can just have lights on all thetime, like we don't need rest.
If we can make a little, if alittle is good, more must be
better.
And as as as nations, it wasactually a trauma response.
It was like, if we can just keepworking, we'll keep making money
and we'll be safe.
(48:12):
And do we need money?
Yeah, we do.
But with anything, if we put oursafety outside of ourselves,
whether it's in in money,certain level of production,
it's conditional and neverenough.
That's why if a little is good,more must be better.
Well, if I if I produce at 85,then I'll be even safer if I
(48:32):
produce at 95.
Well, if I produce at 95, I'llbe even produ better, safer if I
produce, it'll just keep goingand going and going.
And so that's what's gotten usin the place where we are now,
where we try to trim the fat, soto speak, of those unnecessary
parts, those transitions.
You know, like even if we thinkabout literally the the the
birthing process, if we it'sbecome like a factory model,
(48:55):
we're just trying to do it asquickly and quote unquote
efficiently as possible, toreally uh suck out as much time
because time is money and moneyis time.
But this that is what has thatis what has gotten us in the
position where we are now, yeah,where many of us are
(49:16):
chronically, chronically burntout, we are in collapse, we are
not content, but we don't knowwhy, and we don't know another
way of being.
But I'll I'll I'll close withsaying as individuals and also
as nations, communities, groups,if our safety, if our sense of
(49:40):
self, if our value, if our worthis tied to productivity any form
of slowing down, any form ofrest will inherently be a
threat.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
Yeah, it's like when is enough enough?
And can you feel enoughness?
Like what is contentment, orrecently, like I've been talking
to my kids a lot about like playthat is boredom, like a puzzle.
Like I think so many of us areover and underwhelmed at the
same time.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (50:17):
It's I think there's so many people who are in the
type of burnout where their footis both on the gas and the brake
at the same time.
And it's like there's nosemblance of peace or connection
or safety in body or connectionor family.
And what you are talking aboutis just such a beautiful gift.
(50:40):
I think, especially right now inthis transitional season, I
think in so many ways, I just Ihave I've loved this
conversation with you.
It is just so life-giving to me.
And I hope it will be toeveryone else.
I'm curious, like, what is thebest place for I know people
will love this to learn moreabout you, to follow you.
(51:02):
Like, where is the best place tolike get connected with Camille
these days?
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, if you want to sort ofjust get connected with me, I am
on Instagram, Camille.leak.
You can find me there.
But also come check me out atHolistic Life Navigation, all up
and through there at differentwebinars and retreats.
We'll actually be doing aretreat out in Costa Rica at the
end of February, if you want tocome hang out with us there.
But in particular, if you'rereally interested around the
(51:28):
cyclical and seasonal leaveliving and working, again, go to
Holistic Life Navigation, thewebsite, and go to on-demand
learning.
And there's a 90-minute webinarif you just want to put your
toe, dip your toe in, hear alittle bit more about it.
But if you really, really wantto go a little bit deeper into
it, I have a four-part recordedcourse.
(51:49):
So it's to take you throughhelping you identify your
cycles, your rhythms on a daily,weekly, monthly, and yearly
basis.
So you could check out that thatcourse.
And then if you're really,really, really into this stuff,
keep keep an eye out on my myInstagram page as well as HLN
stuff, because next year I'mgoing to do a six-month uh slow
(52:12):
group.
So this will be a live session.
We'll meet once a week a groupof people who just want to work
with other people and myself toover the course of six months to
really go slow and deep intoidentifying their daily, weekly,
monthly, and yearly rhythms.
And this will be a slow groupand a space where we can
experiment, we can reflect, wecan observe, we can share what
(52:36):
we're playing with, not to justknow because sometimes we think
we, well, I should just knowwhat my rhythms are.
It's an iterative process.
And so we'll have this containerto support you as you go through
those iterations, as you gothrough the experimentation, the
observation, the iterationpivot, and then you do it again.
So those are three differentways in particular when it comes
to seasonal and cyclical livingand working, if you want to
(52:58):
explore it a bit further.
SPEAKER_00 (52:59):
I mean, that just sounds amazing.
And I just have to say, like, II send people to HLN all the
time.
What you guys, each of youthere, like Luis, you, I just it
has been such a gift to mepersonally and professionally.
And I think what's so beautifulis that it is truly connected
(53:22):
and relational.
And the slowness part, I thinkis actually so important because
I think there's a million placesyou can go to get information.
Very few places, I think, whereyou can go and get integration
and actual building of the skillin your own body, not just of
the, oh, Camille or Luis isgoing to give you a 10-step
(53:46):
blueprint.
It's like they are going to helpyou connect to the relationship
of you, yourself, your life.
And it's just such a gift, andit has just been such a
beautiful thing for me.
And just having you on thepodcast again has just been such
a joy.
So thank you so much for beingwith me today.
And if you guys love thispodcast, if you'll take a
(54:06):
moment, leave a review, share itwith a friend.
If you want to message me onsocial, definitely go follow
Camille.
We'd we'd love to hear from youand definitely share it about
with your friends.
So thank you so much for beinghere, and we'll see you next
time.
Thanks for joining me on today'sepisode of the Motherhood Mentor
(54:28):
Podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment, one
small tangible piece of workthat you can bring into your
life to get your hands a littledirty, to get your skin in the
game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
(54:51):
If this podcast moved you, if itinspired you, if it encouraged
you, please do me a favor andleave a review.
Send an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women.
And that's what we're doinghere.
So I hope you have an awesomeday.
(55:12):
Take really good care ofyourself, and I'll see you next
time.
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