Welcome to an empowering episode that dives deep into the intricate relationship women have with money. Join me as I welcome Jenna Lee and Terra Rose, the dynamic duo behind Gutsy Money. In this episode, we explore how money conversations often feel shrouded in stigma, especially for women. Jenna and Terra shed light on the critical importance of financial literacy for women entrepreneurs, emphasizing the need for a solid financial foundation in personal and business finances.
We discuss the transformative power of money mindset, with insights into how our emotions can dictate our financial behaviors. Jenna and Terra share their personal stories and actionable strategies to help overcome money anxiety, guiding listeners on how to develop a healthier relationship with their finances. If you struggle with finances, with pretending they don't exist, shame about making too much or making too little, about not understanding what a P+ L is, this episode is for you.
Discover why clarity is crucial in maintaining financial health and learn how it paves the way for making gutsy choices in business and life. This episode not only offers practical advice but encourages listeners to embrace authentic conversations about money without shame. Are you ready to take your financial narrative into your own hands? Tune in and join our community of empowered women navigating the complex world of money.
Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review to help us support even more women on their financial journeys!
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About:
Meet Terra Rose and Jenna Lee. With over four decades of combined entrepreneurial experience, they founded Gutsy Money to bridge the financial literacy gap for women entrepreneurs and business owners.
Gutsy Money uniquely blends professional services with community support. Terra Rose and Jenna Lee's approach goes beyond traditional bookkeeping, creating a space for women to build confidence, tackle financial challenges and become masters of their financials.
If you’re ready to stop living on autopilot and start leading your life with deep presence, I’d love to work with you. Book a free interest call here: Click Here
💌 Want more? Follow me on Instagram @themotherhoodmentor for somatic tools, nervous system support, and real-talk on high-functioning burnout, ambition, healing perfectionism, and motherhood. And also pretty epic meme drops.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and thispodcast is for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to health,healing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do.
It's support for who we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
(00:25):
all of our soft and hardhumanity as holy.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to the Motherhood MentorPodcast.
(00:45):
Today I have two guests with me, which is super exciting.
I have the owners and foundersof Gutsy Money, and I am so
excited for this conversationbecause Jenna Lee is just one of
my favorite people in the worldand so anyone she likes, I
usually like them as well, andone of the topics that I know
she has talked about a ton inlike our mastermind and other
(01:08):
things like that is justteaching women about money,
especially in their businesses,and if there is anyone in this
world when I think of like if Iwas struggling with money while
really struggling with anything.
If I think of someone who Iwould want to ask, it'd be her,
because she shoots it straight,but it's from love, like she has
, that she will tell me thetruth about it, but she will do
(01:29):
it in a way that, like I knowshe cares about me, but she can
help me with it, and especiallywith money.
I'm so weird about money.
I'm sure I'm going to get myass handed to me in the best way
in this podcast.
So I'm super excited.
And, Tara Rose, I cannot waitto get to know you.
So will you two both introduceyourselves?
Let's start with Tara Rose,because I want to get to know
(01:50):
you and just introduceyourselves and Gutsy Money.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Awesome.
Okay, so do you do Rebecca orBecca, or either one.
Becca is great.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Becca Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you so much for having us today, and I could
not echo more loudly what youhave to say about Jenna Lee.
She really is the best ever,and so we can just start with
the Jenna Lee party here Agreed,the party you want to be at for
sure.
So I have founded severaldifferent nonprofit
organizations and for-profitcompanies in a variety of
(02:22):
different industries over mycareer, and I've also taught
entrepreneurship at a communitycollege and mentored several
venture startups, and theconversation for me just became
very clear as, especially, Ispoke to more and more women
around how one of their greatestfears, especially as they grow
in their success, is not havinga financial partner that they
(02:43):
can trust.
Who do I turn to when I havesome of these questions about
money and finances and growth,and how do I know I can trust
them?
Because I want to know they'renot just trying to sell me on
something else or this or that.
So that's really how GutsyMoney was born this idea that we
want to go and scoop up thewomen who are the most powerful
(03:05):
and passionate about makingchange in the world, building
solid companies, providing fortheir families and be that money
partner for them so they knowthat they have a place to land
and people that they can trust,and so gutsy.
The reason we're called gutsymoney is the idea that when you
have this solid foundation right, you think of like a volleyball
player going to run and jumpoff a sand.
(03:26):
Right, you have to likesometimes your feet sink in the
sand or you're like, oh my gosh,you're melting.
But if they're on a court andsand, volleyball is rad
generally and I both play, butit's a different game.
Your feet are sinking, it'sdifferent.
But if you have a court whichis equivalent to, like, your
financial foundation and you goand you jump off of that and
it's rock solid, you can makegutsy moves.
(03:47):
That's the whole thing.
Oh my gosh, I know exactly howmuch profit I have, I know
exactly where my revenue is, Iknow exactly what my expenses
are doing, and that means youcan make those really cool moves
in your business.
So, or in your life, you wantto take your kids on around the
world trip.
You want to add this nextservice while you have the
finances to do it, you knowwhere your money's at.
You get to be gutsy becauseyour nervous system is so
(04:10):
fundamentally nourished byknowing your money, and so
that's where gutsy money came in.
And that's just a little bitabout where I come from.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Already obsessed Generally, how would you
introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, so I have known Tara since she was 18 years old
.
We don't need to count thedecades that it's been since
then, but it is plural and shehas been just an extraordinary,
just wise, beyond her yearshuman from the moment I met her,
and I have waited theaforementioned decades for an
opportunity to be activelyinvolved in business with her.
(04:47):
We've always supported eachother in our businesses with
marketing and advice and contentand strategy, but this is the
first time that I have anopportunity to do business with
her, and she came to me with theidea for Gutsy Money and I
don't even think I let herfinish her sentence before I
said yes.
I was like, well, it's you.
So yes, it's money, one of myfavorite topics.
(05:09):
So yes, so double yes, and Ihave.
Also, I do not come from thenonprofit world, but I have
founded and co-founded numerousbusinesses and helped grow about
a dozen other organizationsover my career and time and time
again I have had theopportunity to work with people
(05:31):
who are so skilled at theircraft, who have an amazing idea
for a product or service, whoare legends at what they do, and
then the backend business stuffis really hard for them,
because being amazing at yourcraft does not, does not
necessarily equivalent to beinggreat at business.
And so these people are buildingorganizations, just like I've
(05:53):
built my organizations, and atthe same time that you're
building your organizations andtrying to attract leads and
trying to close those leads ohand then provide the services
for the people that you closeYou're also trying to figure out
all the backend business stuffand, unfortunately, bookkeeping
and tax preparation andanalyzing, like, the finances of
(06:13):
a business.
None of that is stuff that we'retaught in high school and many
of us aren't taught it incollege either.
And so when we embark on thisjourney of entrepreneurship,
there are just fundamentalthings that we can't like, like
good, good attitude our waythrough there, like we actually
have to know the nuts and boltsof them to be effective, and the
result of not knowing those isdecreased profits, it's
(06:35):
unnecessary overhead and, likeTara Rose said, it's missed
opportunities when we have achance to maybe add a service, a
line of service, to our agency,or when we have a chance to
like grow and bring on morecontractors or more employees or
partner with anotherorganization If we don't know
where we stand financially andwe can't make like an informed
(06:56):
decision about whether that'sright for our business and that
can be really detrimental, notto mention just missing out on
tax write offs, because I am afirm believer in giving only the
exact amount of money to thegovernment that they are owed,
and not one penny more.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is the perfect season of taxes.
Like I was, I keep.
We were watching a show andevery single ad was like a tax
thing.
And my kids were like why isthis?
And I was like, are people notat least basic keeping track of
their money?
Which also, to be fair, I'mprobably like when you were
describing people, I was likeyou can just say it's me Like
(07:29):
just say you're talking about me, it's fine.
No, but I think money is such abig foundation and it's one of
the core facets of like capacityin this generation Because, if
you think of in the past it wasfood, but in our culture, money
equals everything we need tolive.
(07:49):
So it's foundational for us and, I think, for many women.
I'll speak for myself.
I'm very uncomfortable talkingabout money.
I remember I was working withone of one of my first business
coaches and on the questionnaireshe was like how do you
remember women talking aboutmoney?
And I and I sat there and I waslike I don't, I don't, I, I.
(08:11):
I remember like my familysituation and like my parents
fighting about money.
I remember like the fights aboutspending versus saving and how
much was too much, and the likebudgeter versus the spender,
which I think is such afascinating thing, and like if
we're talking about relationalfinances, but even in like
business finances, in any realmof finances, all of a sudden I
(08:33):
was like I had no idea how muchmoney, drama and money I
wouldn't call, I don't, Iwouldn't say I have money,
trauma, but like I would saythat like there was a lot of
emotional baggage that came witheven just talking about money,
thinking about money, spendingmoney, saving money, how much
money I'm charging for things.
Can you just talk about like theenergetics or like the mental
(08:56):
side about money.
That like because we weretalking before we started
recording of, like because it'sso uncomfortable for so many
women, we just don't think aboutit, we don't talk about it, we
don't want to, we don't want tolook at it, which you know from
my perspective and anything.
As soon as you were saying thatabout money, I was like oh shit
, I know this with other areaswhere I'm like let's not shove
(09:17):
down the emotions, let's notpretend it's not there, cause
that won't help anyone, but talkto me about that with money.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh help anyone.
But talk to me about that withmoney.
Oh my gosh, so good.
And thank you for acknowledgingit and just for your honesty
around your own journey withmoney, because I think that
opens up the conversation evenmore for all of us to be so
authentic with it.
I was on a hike gosh a couple ofyears ago with a client of mine
and she is also a verysuccessful therapist and she's
like I just have to saysomething and I was like do it.
(09:48):
And she says I am going tocelebrate how much money I made
this month.
And she had been through a hugemove and she had gone through
all of these really challengingmoments in time.
And she's like I finally gotback to my $10,000 a month in my
therapy practice and I feelgood about it.
And like we looked at eachother and she burst into tears
(10:10):
and I burst into laughter and wehigh-fived on this hike and it
starts raining and it was likethis I have like full body
goosebumps just talking about it.
It was like this moment in timeof complete release, of like,
okay, okay, like we can just sayit and that's a success story,
right, but it's also just thatlike I can't even celebrate it,
and I think that is actuallypart of a huge part of the
(10:34):
conversation that we're alsomissing.
Oh my gosh, like I made alittle extra this month.
I'm starting to succeed.
But if I say that, someone elsemight feel bad or we might get
into this idea of like, oh, I'mbragging, I'm showing off, and,
like you said, you don't havememories of women talking about
money, because it has sort ofbeen one of those voodoo topics.
(10:54):
And so another instance that Iremember was when Jenna Lee and
I came together and I was like,well, I finally had to come to
grips with all of the debt thatI'm in.
And I shared, like, well, Ifinally had to come to grips
with all of the debt that I'm in, and I shared that with her and
I was like, I have so much debtfrom this venture that I had
done, and I finally calculatedit and even though this number
is six figures of debt, it'sokay.
(11:16):
It's okay because now I'm clearand now I can take the action
to get out of that debt.
And so when we start to say,hey, I just want to have a
conversation with you you beingwhoever that is let's pick a
woman in our lives who feelslike they are a safe container,
they can hold this space with us, just like you are, becca, for
so many of your incredibleclients.
(11:38):
Let's pick somebody and say I'mgoing to sit down and I'm going
to tell you everything about myfinances and I want you to tell
me how does that feel?
I'm going to just say, hey,okay, here's how much debt I
used to have or I do have now.
Here's what I'm scared about,here's what I'm thrilled about.
Here's my biggest damn dream.
Like my dream is to build acompany to this right.
(11:59):
And okay, so say they're,they're in the beauty industry
and they're like I'm going tobuild this company to $10
million and then I'm going tohave an exit.
Okay, like, let's talk aboutthose dreams, let's go there.
So let's go all the things thatare scary and where we're at and
where we're going and whatwe're calling in for ourselves,
and let's just have those moneyconversations and open them up,
(12:19):
because what that does releasesthat heart energy.
It releases the mental energy.
I had a really good friend sayto me several months ago she's
like we're only as sick as oursecrets and I liked that.
It's like gosh, we really are.
We're only trapped by thethings we're unwilling to shine
the light on, and so that's howI would say let's just start
(12:40):
there with opening theconversation, opening the energy
and I do want to emphasize withsomebody who has the capacity
and the container to hold that,and then have them share too,
because never, ever is it thecase that anyone's perfect
Spoiler alert and so what youjust said of I mean cause, I
(13:00):
mean one of the first things Ilearned in the healing world, if
you want to call it that, wasanything in the dark, anything
in the closet feels and looks somuch scarier.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But I think many of us have also faced where we
brought something out of thecloset to someone who couldn't
contain it, to someone whoresponded in a way that actually
made it worse.
And I work with a lot of womenwho are in that position where
they're like I don't talk aboutthis because my life is so good
and grateful, so I'm not goingto talk about the skeletons in
my closet of my marriage becauseI don't want people to get
(13:33):
so-and-so perception of him, soI'm just going to not talk about
it.
And I think money is thatskeleton in the closet.
I mean.
I even think of my own journeyin business and especially in
the beginning of business I wasembarrassed about how little
money I was making, because itfelt insignificant, like it felt
too small to celebrate and yetto me it was like that was the
(13:53):
first, like real big girl moneyI made and like that was.
It was huge for me.
And then it's interesting.
I can remember certain times inmy business where, like, I
reached a marker that I toldmyself would be like the marker,
like I just want to make Xamount of dollars per month.
And it wasn't until the end ofthat year that all of a sudden,
(14:17):
I was like I did that all yearand I didn't even notice it.
I wasn't even celebrating it.
I was just constantly focusedon how I wasn't making my six
figures in my business.
Like every can we just I justwant to.
I love that people are tellingentrepreneurs that they can make
so much money, but the amountof shame that I've had, that
like not now and I know it'sillogical Like my brain knows
(14:40):
there's nothing wrong with yourbusiness, that you haven't made
six figures a year yet by yearfive, and yet so many people
talk about how much you make.
And it's crazy how there's thisshame about making too much or
making too little, but justbringing it into the light and
being able to talk about it withsomeone who will not shame you
(15:01):
but will have thataccountability.
I mean, one of the things thatwe talk about all the time
generally, like in groups ofwomen, is, like I want to talk
about this in a room that canhold responsibility, not
victimhood, but also not thetoxic positivity shit, like
there's no room for that.
I'm curious generally like whatdo you what?
Generally, what is yourviewpoint on money mindset and
(15:22):
the way we feel about money?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, what I think is really interesting about money
mindset is that it very rarelyhas anything to do with how much
money we made or how much moneywe netted.
And I have worked with peoplein business who have hit all of
their financial goals, who haveblown the lid off those
financial goals in terms ofincome, who have, at the end of
(15:45):
the year, had almost nothing toshow for it.
And it wasn't because they, itwasn't because they had to have
that level of expenses.
It was because their mindsetabout their about themselves
regarding money was they weren'tworthy of it.
It was going.
Their mindset about themselvesregarding money was they weren't
worthy of it.
It was going to be hard, theywere never going to have enough,
and oftentimes this type ofthing starts in our childhood
(16:08):
with how the money thermostatwas set in our childhood in our
family home.
If we haven't worked on thatand they took actions that
ensured that at the end of theyear, despite how much they made
, year over year I watched themdouble their business, and year
over year I watched theirprofits, what they had left
(16:28):
after their expenses, be aboutthe same, and so I think it's
critical that we really excavateour money mindset, how finances
were talked about and expressedin our childhood and how we
have approached money ever sincethen.
Because we're going to returnto, we're going to land on like
(16:51):
where we expect to be, and Ithink that that.
Likewise, I think we all knowthose people who just I have
this friend in Arizona who shejust can't not make money.
Like it's just amazing, likeshe just everything she touches
and she's smart and capable andamazing.
But she's not more smart andcapable and amazing than me or
(17:12):
than that other friend I had whojust ended every year barely
scraping by.
She just has an abundancemindset and she does the work.
I'm putting that in quotesbecause I get tired of hearing
it sometimes.
But there's a reality that ourmindset and our beliefs about
money dictate our results, justlike how we actually execute and
(17:33):
earn money and how we manageour expenses also generates our
results.
So I think it's twofold andputting all of our like eggs,
all of our eggs in one basketcalled I'm just going to have an
abundant mindset and you know,like put pictures of rich people
all over my office and it'sgoing to come to me, is
dangerous.
Likewise, saying look, I'm justgoing to make a bunch of money
(17:54):
and perfectly manage my financesand expect that I'm going to
have a different result when Ireally don't believe I'm worthy
of being wealthy or comfortableor at ease with money.
That's not going to work either.
So I think they're bothcritical.
What we help people with atGutsy Money is more the
fundamentals, the nuts and boltsof let's get a very clear
(18:16):
picture of your finances.
But once you have a clearpicture of your finances, if
they're not where you want themto be, that gives you a really
clear path forward.
Then, to analyze your moneymindset Okay, I've got this
great product or serviceoffering.
People want to pay me for it.
My expenses are fairly low, butI keep finding excuses to blow
money on a new wardrobe when Idon't need it, or to throw money
(18:36):
into, you know, a bunch ofadvertising that doesn't really
have a high ROI and, lo andbehold, my profitability is
really low.
All right.
Well then, something'shappening between those good
numbers and your end results,and that's something that's
happening in between those isyou.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And I'm curious too, especially with like money
anxiety, like that anxiousnessand even I think that avoidance
of money.
You know, when I think ofanxious about money, it's not
just I'm feeling anxious whenI'm thinking about money, it's
I'm going to avoid thinkingabout it altogether.
Talk to me about that moneyanxiety, that people yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So I have actually been there.
I um, I sold an agency a fewyears ago and I had a lot of
money in the bank, and so Ididn't have this, like you know.
Compared to when I lived incollege and I was living
paycheck to paycheck and I hadto perfectly manage my finances
in order to pay all my bills andhave the spending money I
desired, I was in a differentposition, where the money was
there.
(19:33):
I didn't know how much money wasthere, I didn't know how
quickly I was spending it.
I didn't notice.
This is embarrassing.
I didn't notice that I had like$3,000 in recurring
subscriptions for the businessthat I had sold.
That didn't get canceled by myex-business partner and just ran
through on my account like thatI had.
I was.
I was in total avoidance on myfinances in a positive way,
(19:58):
Cause I was like there's plentyof money, I just won't look.
And then by the time I looked,abundance, abundance, right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It's all there, but like.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
No, I don't think.
I hope I'm never a level ofrich that I don't mourn $3,000
being wasted on software that Ididn't use Like that was a total
waste of resources.
I could do Even if I gave that$3,000 to charity.
Obviously I could do so muchgood in the world with $3,000
that flew out the window tothese unneeded subscriptions.
(20:25):
And so while I was in avoidance, despite having more than
enough resources to cover mylifestyle, I had more anxiety
than when I lived in.
I was in college and I wasliving paycheck to paycheck, but
I accounted for every.
I was in college and I wasliving paycheck to paycheck, but
I accounted for every penny,which is fascinating, right to
have a shitload of money in thebank and be more anxious about
your finances than when you weremaking $7.30 an hour at a
(20:48):
tanning salon in college.
So and so what I ultimately hadto do was I had to take action
on that.
So I'm a big believer that theonly antidote to anxiety is
action, because anxiety isfuture-based, it's
uncertainty-based.
When we're anxious, we're notanxious about the problem
directly in front of us that wecan do something about.
(21:11):
We're anxious about theunexpected.
We're anxious about thepotential future scenario that
may or may not happen.
We're anxious about the things,that scenario that may or may
not happen.
We're anxious about the thingsthat are cloudy or obscured from
us, that we're not, that wedon't quite have a handle on
right.
That's what gives us anxiety,and so what we can do by taking
action in the moment is it givesus a sense of control over
(21:35):
those uncertain, unexpected,unpredictable future outcomes.
It gives us in our body.
It shows us maybe I can'tpredict everything that will
happen, maybe I can't engineermy perfect long-term outcome,
but I can do something right now, and for me it was signing up
for Monarch, a financialmonitoring software, pulling all
(21:56):
of my accounts into one placeand spending hours and hours and
hours looking at everytransaction that had come
through my accounts in the lasttwo years and categorizing them,
and I had to face not only thethree plus thousand dollars of
unnecessary software I'daccidentally stayed subscribed
to, but a lot of wastefulspending I had to confront.
(22:17):
You know, here's what theaverage family of four spends to
eat out at restaurants, and I'ma single mom with one
six-year-old daughter andsomehow we're spending that same
amount.
That's perplexing.
So I had to confront a lot ofthings, and some things were
worse than I expected.
But you know what, as this is,we find this often for our
clients some things were so muchbetter than I expected.
Often, for our clients, somethings were so much better than
(22:38):
I expected, but my wholefeelings about my finances were
holistically better because Ihad clarity, because I took the
appropriate action in order toget clarity about.
Here's actually where I amright now.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah Well, and you took responsibility, which is
just the ability to respond,which you can't do if you're
ignoring what's going on.
And I think to speaking to themoney anxiety part.
Money is still cloudy for meand I'm still figuring it out
and it's getting more and morecomfortable because you know
it's a process.
Sometimes it's like little bylittle I'm growing and getting
(23:12):
better and I'm phenomenallybetter than I was five years ago
, for sure, especially on theentrepreneur side of financials,
because of course, I had noidea what I was doing right and
I was learning how to be a coachand a business owner, which are
two very different roles andthey both had to support each
other.
But like the coach part, Icould.
I could do that all day, everyday.
(23:32):
Like the entrepreneur side isactually the side that has been
so much harder for me.
But what I wanted to say withthe anxiety piece you know I
talk about this in coaching allof the time, but it's like
anxiety is you can't think yourway out of anxiety.
You can't think your way out ofit because, yes, it's mental
but it's also emotional in thatyour body is trying to avoid
(23:56):
something bad happening in thefuture.
But the problem with anxiety isit can't actually respond to
the future.
Your body can't act onsomething that's not actively
happening and it doesn't matterhow anxious you get, it won't
help that thing get better.
And so, with anxiety, so manypeople are trying to calm
themselves down and it's like,well, I don't know when I'm
(24:19):
super, super stressed andsomeone looks at me and they're
like calm down, I've never feltbetter.
I just feel now I'm anxious andpissed off, right Versus if
someone were to say okay, butwhat are you doing right now and
can you trust yourself?
And how you learn to trustyourself is by taking action
according to your values, evenif it's small and insignificant
is by taking action according toyour values, even if it's small
(24:41):
and insignificant.
When you take some small action, it provides this reminder to
your body that I will act.
I will respond If and whensomething bad does happen, which
it will.
This is life.
Your body is very wise.
It knows shitty things aregoing to happen, and then your
brain is like but we can preventit.
And it's like sometimes, butalso sometimes not, and so I
(25:03):
love that approach.
I'm curious, tara Rose, whatyou would add to that or what
you would say.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Sure, it really struck me before when you had
mentioned about, you know, allof the shame that you had
experienced, which I would.
Would you agree that shame canalso lead to anxiety and be
mixed up together?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Oh yeah, because it, because it's I need to avoid
this part of myself.
It's what do I need to put inthe shadows?
What do I need to make sure?
What do I need to repress?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And that and that really struckme because we do live in a
culture of just high cognitivedissonance.
You know people are saying, hey, here, create this immediate
six figure business and you havepeople spouting it off.
And so also earlier, when I wasmentioning owning your big
(25:55):
dreams, I hope it was clear thatI didn't mean like you have to
have a dream of a certain youknow money amount.
But I also feel like sometimeswe try to some of the most
authentic among us try to ignorethose big dreams because it's
like, oh well, I don't reallywant to get classified or put
into this container or this boxwith these things that maybe
feel a little bit untrue.
(26:16):
And so, just what you werementioning about seeing all
those things and feeling allthose things, I think it's so
important for us to also takesuch clear stock which I'm sure
you do very well in yourbusiness and for all of us to
like who are we listening to andare they telling the truth and
what are like when they'resaying something?
Are they telling the truth andwhat are like when they're
(26:37):
saying something?
How aligned is it to both myown values and to their own?
And sometimes we have todecipher that because, like you
were mentioning, like thesethings are out there and yet
they're not always true.
They're just not like there'sso much out there.
But then we internalize it andthink, oh my gosh, as these
people, as these go-getters, asthese women, that should be
(26:58):
immediately true for me too.
And then, oh, something's wrongwith me because it isn't.
And so, coming just back aroundto the action Jenna's talk
generally is talking about withyou know, taking the action for
the anxiety, starting withhaving that conversation like we
kind of mentioned, and hey, whoare we listening to and looking
at?
And, if there's any, anythingwe need to trim off from our
(27:20):
awareness and our senses tosupport ourselves so that we're
not being bombarded by thingsthat are creating that cognitive
dissonance, with or without ourimmediate knowledge, but maybe
even in our subconscious.
And then, from there, whatmoves can I make to create that
foundation and then begin togrow it incrementally and that's
(27:41):
the other thing too that I haveseen cause so much anxiety is
like it's almost like businessgrowth and making money becomes
a mystery.
Sometimes it's like huh, thisseems kind of mysterious.
I know I need paying clientsand I know I need these pieces,
but how do I put them alltogether?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It's not a mystery.
You're telling me that it's nota mystery.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It feels like one, though right, it's like 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm sitting here like no, but I like it does feel
like a mystery to me and I dothink I mean part of that I I'm
aware of, like part of that isbecause I still have a a lack of
awareness and it's kind of oneof those I'm aware that I'm not
aware and you know I don't havea lot of the capacity to get
there.
But I'm curious where would youstart someone with the
(28:29):
foundation?
So like, let's say, someonecomes to you and they're just
like I don't know what I'm doingwith money.
I'm confused, I'm overwhelmed,I feel embarrassed, I don't know
what I'm doing.
What, like, are some of thosefoundations of financial health,
whether that's like personalbusiness?
Do you feel like personal andbusiness need to always mix?
I'm curious, like, what aresome of those foundations of,
(28:51):
like, healthy finances?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well, so with Through Gutsy Money, we only work with
women business owners currently,so we don't address people's
personal finances.
But as an entrepreneur, youknow the line between business
and personal finances when youown your own business is a lot
fuzzier than I go to work.
I get a W-2 paycheck and allthe business finances have
really nothing to do with me.
(29:14):
My money's in my account everytwo weeks and so there's always
conversations about personalfinances with our clients.
But they do have to be businessowners, and we feel the best
place to start is firstunderstanding people's.
We actually always start withtheir mindset.
(29:35):
So, like, what are your painpoints?
What feels scary?
What are like?
What are your concerns?
What are some of the thingsmaybe that you haven't said to
anybody else?
Say them to us first, becausewe've got to sort of.
It's sort of like sweeping theroom of the dust bunnies before
you put a new coat of paint up.
Right, you got to get likeclean the whole area and then we
can paint it.
But if we paint it with all thedust bunnies, we're going to get
(29:55):
those stuck in the paint.
It's not going to look good,it's going to be a mess.
And so we start there.
We sort of clear out thecobwebs of shame, of guilt, of
misunderstanding.
One thing I think you weretalking about earlier with the
mystery of business, it's Idon't think it's that business
is so mysterious.
I think we have a misconceptionand an incorrect expectation
(30:18):
that business growth is likethis, like if this is our, this
is our graph, the businessgrowth is like this and a
reality business growth.
I love how Terry Rose used theword incremental.
It's more like a hockey stick.
That's my favorite thing that Ipicture.
And a hockey stick, if you, ifyou set it on the ground, it's
flat, it's flat, it's flat, it'sflat, it's flat for freaking
ever.
And then, when you don't wantit to be flat anymore, it's
still flat.
(30:38):
And then, finally, after allthis consistent effort and
building and growing and notgiving up and, by the way, most
people give up up near thehandle, mid stick, some people
give up right right at thebottom, right before it climbs.
But that that's the expectationfor business growth and it's
not what we're going to be soldin an Instagram reel when
somebody wants us to buy theirtotally unoriginal but they put
(31:01):
a spin on it.
Marketing package right, justdo these 10 things and you know
you'll have six figures in twomonths.
That's total crap.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
But then you go why isn't it working?
Cause I'm doing things and I'vebeen doing them consistently
for how long now?
And you're looking, going.
How long is this going to take?
I don't know if you guys areMadagascar fans, but I can't say
that without, how long is thisgoing to take?
Like King Julian, I alwaysthink that in my head, like when
it when we're talking about,like business success, and I
feel like that is such a goodanalogy.
(31:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah.
So the hockey shirt that saysdon't stop mid stick.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yes, oh my gosh, so many different meetings for that
shirt too, and I will wear itproudly.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I love that, I love that so much and also I'm yes,
yes, please.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, so so we start by cleaning out the, the
emotional cobwebs, the, themindsets, the limiting beliefs,
all of that and that, and notnecessarily clearing those out
like they go away, but justmaking sure that everybody who's
involved is aware of them.
And then it's the setup.
So you need a structure inwhich to contain everything, and
so we set up, we help them setup a chart of accounts.
(32:11):
We talk about these are yourdifferent kinds of expenses, and
this is the difference betweena cost of good and an expense,
and this is why that matters.
And, by the way, it reallymatters.
One of those should fluctuateaccording to how many services
or products you sell, and one ofthose shouldn't.
And here's why that matters.
And so we were always seekingto not only do for our clients,
(32:32):
but to educate them on the why.
Because some people go on toDIY and they stay in the gutsy
money crew for accountabilityand support, and then some
people stay with us for fullservice bookkeeping and we
handle it all.
But even when we handle it all,we never want one of our
clients to be able to say toanyone in their life yeah, I
don't know, I just here's thenet number, and they tell me
(32:52):
every month that it's good orbad.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Absolutely.
As an example, the person whodoes my taxes for my business
they're connected to myhusband's business, which is
much, much more substantial andlong, long, they're in the high
of the the hockey stick Rightand my process for my taxes is
here is my PNL and I don't.
(33:15):
I don't know.
Not maybe that feelsembarrassing to say, but to say
like I don't know, like I don'tknow any things, and I feel so
silly.
And here's the thing I think ofmyself as someone who's like
pretty good at like awkward,difficult conversations, but I
feel like the biggest ass hat inthe world to go in and talk to.
I can't think of his actualname.
We'll call him Kyle Chad.
(33:36):
Yeah, we'll call him Chad.
That's good and he's not.
I'm sure he's perfectly nice,but I feel so silly to go in and
be like can you explain all ofthis?
Because I don't like can youtalk to me about my business
finances?
Like I feel so weird talking tohim because, again, I don't
know if he's going to evenhandle that.
Versus here's the actualnumbers, versus like here's.
(33:56):
Like he wouldn't hold my handlike you would.
So it feels like intimidatingto go to someone who feels like
they only deal in the structurewho won't talk to me about like
what this actually means when,like I'm, my business is a baby.
You know it's, it's a child,it's one one.
It's obviously not as equal tomy children, but it is.
(34:19):
It is this baby that I've built.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, and what if someone came in and told you
these are all the things youneed to do for parenting, but
I'm not going to tell you whyright and yeah, and defining
right and being able to defineall of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
It's money, is a language, right, it's an, it's
energy and it's a language.
And most of us aren't, likegenerally mentioned.
We're not taught this in highschool.
We're never taught thislanguage.
You know we go to class tolearn Spanish or German or
French or whatever.
Our you know first language isnot, but we don't go.
You know people are throwingaround EBITDA and you know like
(34:55):
like generally has a really funreel on Instagram about PNLs and
you know like like generallyhas a really fun reel on
Instagram about PNLs and youknow she thought it was PNL, not
profit and loss.
But how would we know that?
And we can't grow if ournervous systems are in the
freeze or the fight or flightstate, like you're saying, if
you're feeling like a massivedum-dum because this guy is just
going to like rattle a bunch ofstuff off, you have no idea
(35:17):
about how are you going to learn?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
And here's the wild part I don't even want to ask
that's right, like that's howweird money is for people and
I'm sharing that, so hopefullysomeone else out there doesn't
feel alone or like their failure.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, Jenna Lee and I .
Can I share the story aboutbeing naked or talking about
money?
So I call Jenna Lee.
After I talked to um, one ofour prospective clients and I
was like generally it justdawned on me that talking about
money is as hard or harder forsomebody as, like the first time
(35:51):
of getting naked in a room withlights, and generally says to
me she says, oh no, no, talkingabout money is way harder than
getting naked in front ofsomebody for the first time with
lights on.
I can do that, that, that I cando money.
Nope, and it was just in, itwas just a and we were, it was
(36:12):
tongue in cheek and we werejoking, right, but it's.
It's one of those things whereit really truly is one of the
toughest conversations for somany of us to have.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And it feels so exposing of things that I feel
like I should know, Like I feellike it's like putting on
display, like how bad I'madulting or like that I don't
care about my business which, bythe way, neither are true Like
it's just this one facet.
This is so random and possiblyoff topic, but for me money felt
so hard until I startedrealizing that there's other
(36:42):
concepts that I know how to takecare of and I just started
applying it to money.
For example, I'll remember Iwas at a women's business
conference and someone wassharing something about pricing
your offers.
She didn't say it, but she wasdescribing pricing your offers
in this one way and all of asudden my brain and my body went
my pricing is my boundary, Idon't I.
(37:06):
And back then I used to have somuch drama around how, how I was
pricing my offers and what Icharged women.
I was so dramatic about it.
But ever since that came to methis like oh, but boundaries,
because oh, if I'm undercharging and they're crossing my
boundary on accident, I willresent them and I will not be
able to show up to therelationship cleanly.
(37:27):
And so like I have to have whatI'm charging be over my level
of resentment and I can't everbe charging under that or it
will.
It doesn't.
Yes, it impacts me deeply, butyou know, I'm I'm a recovering
Enneagram too, so sometimes Ihave to remember, like, oh, that
it doesn't just impact me, itimpacts them as well, and I
(37:50):
think money is something thatprobably is influencing our
businesses and even our lives ina really big way, but, again,
people don't really talk aboutthat, even in, like the business
courses.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Right, they're very.
They're either very they'reusually very vague or they're
telling part of the story, andthat's the part that really gets
my goat right.
They don't describe the wholehockey stick.
They describe the 10 minutesbefore the hockey stick shot up,
and that's really damaging.
And so to Tara Rose's earlierpoint, like, um, guarding
against who we allow toinfluence us is really damaging.
And so to Tara Rose's earlierpoint, like, guarding against
who we allow to influence us isreally important.
And I also think that's why thevalue of there's such a strong
(38:25):
value for in-person, or at leastlive, one-on-one mentorship.
And so I think the best advicethat I would give, like an
up-and-coming young woman, highschool college graduate, is find
someone who's where you want tobe and get in close
relationship with them.
Because when you're in closerelationship with them and you
ask them for that mentorship andthey agree to it, you're going
(38:46):
to see the stuff that is nevergoing to make it in an Instagram
reel, right, you're going tosee the struggles that they
continue to have.
They're just different as youget more successful.
It doesn't ever get easy.
It just gets different thingsand more expensive.
Get more successful.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
It doesn't ever get easy it just gets different
things and more expensive andmore expensive, as it turns out,
the more money you're making,the more money you're handling
and the more money you're losing, sometimes right Like, and you
know, more money, more problems,or what is the More money, more
problems.
That's not what I was trying tosay.
I was trying to say, likethere's a really good quote
about, like the bigger, theresponsibility.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Oh, just given much as expected yeah, that one.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And instead I said more money, more problems.
I actually sneaky beliefs arecoming out right like oh hey,
hey, you and they are from a rapsong, so that that kind of
works, that works perfectly.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Oh, my goodness, Maybe mo money different
problems, which?
Because, right, if we see moneyis like our savior and it's
going to solve all the problems.
That's another mindset that youknow we have to overcome
because, yeah, yeah, and I am.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I'm grateful in that like I've gotten to work with
women who are way further alongin their businesses.
I've worked with some women who, like they, were making the
kind of money I wanted to makein like similar industries, and
I realized like, oh, they'vemade it to where they said they
always wanted to be and it stilldoesn't feel like enough.
It still doesn't, it stillisn't creating that safety that
(40:18):
they thought it would.
And so I really do think thatmindset is such a big thing
because it is.
It is just numbers andthankfully, like there is some
structure to it of like it's notthat mysterious, like I, like
I'm, that's my new.
Okay, I'm going to stop makingit mysterious, it's not that
mysterious, it's actually reallytangible.
See, I think okay, I'm going offon a tangent from what I was
(40:40):
originally talking about I thinkone of the beliefs for me I was
not very good at math and Istill am not Numbers confound me
, like I just even, like theydon't.
My brain doesn't retain them,and that's not me being
self-defeating, that's like alegitimate, like people's
emotions.
I got you numbers Like my brainand my body just like feel very
(41:03):
confused and weird and likepart of that, yeah, I'm sure, is
belief, but like part of it isjust like it's not.
It's not my gifting.
So I'm curious for those peoplewho feel like numbers just are
really hard for them.
What would you say for, like,is there any special, I don't
know, not approach, but whatwould you say to them?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I would say thank goodness we're not still doing
business finances on abacuses,because that would be.
I'll let Tara Rose answer this.
But the but, the like, the net,net.
The punchline is it's not hardanymore, the software does it
for you.
I mean, once you have anexperienced bookkeeper set
everything up for you, itbecomes much easier with the use
(41:46):
of software like QuickBooks todo the actual math.
You're not going to be doingany adding or subtracting or
multiplying.
All of those type of thingswill be handled by the software.
And so you just need a crystalclear, accurate chart of
accounts and you know map to forhow you categorize your
transactions, and the systemdoes all of the.
Any actual mapping is run in areport by your accounting
(42:09):
software, which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So all the people panicking right now for taxes,
who are like I'm not going to dothis again next year, how do
they make sure they don't panicagain this time next year with
taxes, like have someone helpset up an automated system?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Definitely, and that's what gutsy money can do.
Right then, when you doapproach numbers, you say you
(42:53):
know, what kind of newrelationship can I have with you
?
Because I feel like we havedifferent relationships with
everything in our lives.
Like you are so good atrelating to people's emotions,
like that's your jam, you cansit there, you can dive in, you
could do that probably all day,every day, forever.
And so with numbers, it's like,okay, you're just a little
relationship and we're different, you know, like, okay, I'm
(43:13):
going to relate to youdifferently.
I'm going to name you maybe myfinances, or like, can we
personify it?
Because I think, when we werereally empathic and you're able
to connect in, like let'spersonify that money.
Like you have a little money,honey, or like, so he could be
like super hot, like so sexy,like, oh, these, like so he
(43:33):
could be like super hot, like sosexy, like, oh, these curves.
Like you could talk to him like, hey, like Bruce, my money,
honey, okay, with your six packabs, I love it, why not, you
know?
And like, hey, I'm going topersonify it and I'm going to
say, bruce, I need you to go togutsy money today and I need you
to.
You know, get your, get yournumbers all done right, but we
can have fun with it, we canhave a new relationship with it
and we can own that.
This relationship is just hasto be different than other ones,
(43:55):
because it's it's we functiondifferently within.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I love that so much, and while you, while you were
sharing that, what came up forme too is like that's
co-regulation, and I think I'm Itend to be this, and so many of
my clients do too of I'll do itmyself, I'll figure it out
myself, or at least I'll get themajority of the work done first
, and then I'll bring you mymore cleaned up version.
I'm not a mess, anybody.
(44:21):
I'll do the high functioningand then, once I have it figured
out, once I have a problem thatI can like bring to you really
simply, once I have like, oh, Iknow my solution, then I'll
bring my vulnerability, but,like I won't bring it when it's
all raw, I won't bring it whenit's all like just everywhere,
I'm just flopping around, andit's like when we get together
(44:42):
with other humans in that place,it rewires us, it changes us,
especially when you're in a roomof people who can hold it, for
people who have capacity andcompassion to not just be like
oh, you're fine, just stay messy.
Because actually, like I avoidthose conversations, like don't
get me wrong, I want people tobe compassionate and I want them
(45:02):
to honor where I'm at, but Iwant to be with people who also
say here's where you're at,here's how we make it better.
That's just.
It's just what's innate in me,like I just I want to make
everything better.
And so I'm sitting here nowthinking like why can't I just
apply that to money, of course.
Of course it can get better.
And I think too, the idea ofbeing in a room of of people
(45:26):
talking about this and sharingand doing it together, it's so
much easier because so many ofus don't, especially when you're
an entrepreneur, it can bereally easy, even when you have
community, to not be utilizingthat community, to have a
community that's only connectingon the surface level, versus
like linking arms and like doingtheir books together, like
(45:48):
that's powerful.
And I think that breaks so muchof the shame and the mindset
because you start being in aroom with people you look up to
who are going through the samethings as you and it kills
imposter syndrome and it killsall of that shame of I'm making
too much or I'm making toolittle.
Because as soon as you'resitting across from Jenna Lee
and she says how much she'smaking and you feel elation over
(46:09):
it, your body literally says,well, if it's okay for her, it's
okay for me, there is built inpermission and I think how cool
that you're doing that withmoney for entrepreneurs, because
I don't, I don't know if that'ssomething that really exists
out there.
I think most of the things thatI see, at least and maybe I'm
not following the right things,but it's like so much of the
business is how to make money,how to make money.
(46:30):
How to make money and, by theway, almost all of those sound
exactly the same and, by the way, I've been doing that for five
years.
So it's like how, how do I getdeeper and how do I build this
financial health?
I, you know, I've never reallythought of like the financial
health of my business, of what'scoming in and what's going out
(46:50):
and that energetic flow ofthings Talk to me a little bit
about, like the energy of moneyand like the exchange of money.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
One of the things that.
So you talked about boundariesearlier and charging that and
that was like for you and theone for me.
So how many times have we heardcharge what you're worth Charge
?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
what you're worth.
Oh my gosh, Just all the timeand I'm like that's not All the
time.
Okay, tell an insecurecodependent to what I'm worth
it's not going to be a highnumber.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
The worst, the worst, it's the worst.
And so somebody said chargebased on the results you get for
people.
You're not charging what you'reworth.
Your, your worth is just beyondthe beyond, right?
We can't put a number on yourworth.
What's the result you'regetting?
(47:45):
And we can then say, okay, I'mgetting a result for somebody
faster and more clearly, and Iam taking all this time away
from them having to learn itclearly and I am taking all this
time away from them having tolearn it.
All the headache, all the pain,that's what we're charging for.
Oh, okay.
And so energy is emotion, right?
Or emotion is energy in motion.
So we have that emotion aroundmoney.
When we have that energy, it'sa flow, it's an exchange, okay,
(48:10):
so, and it's an exchange for aresult.
It's not an exchange for ourvalue, that so and so.
When we separate those thingsand we say, okay, here we are
with money and this energy iscoming from them to me or from
me to them, and then it has this, these pathways, right.
So if you walk into a house andyour foundation is set, which is
(48:30):
that money foundation, it's setand you've decorated it
beautifully with this moneymindset, and then you can walk
through the halls and you'relike I love these pictures on
the walls of these things I'vedone and these services I offer
and the people I love around me,and it's beautiful.
And you go out into the backyardand you see something.
Well, it's great because youcould go in the front door and
walk through the house and comeout the back door and enjoy it,
(48:51):
because it's clear, the pathwaysare clear, and that's also why
we clarify our finances.
That's the energy, so thatthings can flow, just like we
walk into a beautiful house.
And now, if we don't havethings clear and we haven't had
the conversations or set up thefoundations, it's like walking
into a house with boxes andgarbage everywhere and it smells
kind of funny and we can't.
(49:12):
We can't get to the back doorand even if we do, the yards
overgrown, and so that's whatthat energy around money is.
It's the clarification, it's thefree flow.
Now the money can flow becauseit has its spaces to go, and
then we say here's what it's for, and more money knows what it's
for.
So now our money, more money,wants to be with us.
Money's like I can't wait to bewith that person, that woman,
(49:33):
because she knows what she'sdoing, because you're taking
care of it, you're taking careof it, and it grows and grows.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Okay, when you were talking, though, about pricing
things based off of the resultsthat people get, I think of the
work that I do and I'm likewhat's the monetary value?
Value Like it doesn't.
That doesn't feel obvious to meat all.
That feels very mysterious.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
What would you guys say to that?
I would say that's a.
It's a great.
It's why we do market research,because we let our clients tell
us the value it provides tothem.
So I also have been in coachingroles and there's I've been in
a.
Most of the services I'veoffered in my career have not
had a direct ROI.
It's not like saying I comeinto your business and I
increase your leads by 10%,which we can do the math for how
(50:23):
much that'll increase yoursales, and so thus your revenue
is going to go up X, y, z byworking with me.
And I even remember when I waswriting copy, like when I was
writing when I started mycopywriting career and I was
like well, I would pay 35 bucksan hour for somebody to write
this copy for me.
So I priced my services at 35bucks an hour.
And then, about a year into mybusiness, I realized everybody
(50:45):
who wanted to work with me isnot a writer, so their value of
my copy is much higher than myvalue.
I'm a freaking writer.
Of course, I'm not going to paysomeone very much money to do
what I could do for myself, butI'm definitely people are going
to pay me two, three times thatmuch and now pay me much more
than that to to write the copyfor them.
Because the value, because theyhave determined the value.
(51:08):
And I got to that by literallyasking, by talking to business
owners and finding out like whatis it worth to you to know that
the copy on your website isgoing to, perfectly, you know,
represent your brand and tellyour story and make it and allow
people to get a sense for youbefore they've actually
interacted with you?
What is that worth to you?
(51:28):
And sometimes you have to playaround with it.
Sometimes you increase too muchand you hit a ceiling and you
find out it's not working andyou bring it back down.
But most times I would say ninetimes out of 10, people are
undercharging in all theindustries I've worked in.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a.
I would like at some point loveto dive into that with you.
I think it's a pretty longconversation and I have lots of
questions and things.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I know he loves that conversation with me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Just always like whatever you're charging, charge
more, cause I would pay it.
I mean I pay Becca or to bepart of mastermind with her and
to work with her, and I lovewhat I'm paying her.
It works for me, but I wouldpay her more.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yep, yeah, and, and.
So there there's that component.
And then also digging into allof the knowns and the unknowns
of the results.
Meaning, like one of myfavorite things Steve Jobs said
was like if I would have askedthe market about having a tiny
computer in your hand and I gettheir feedback, how do you think
that would have gone?
Terribly, terribly.
(52:28):
Not a single person could haveimagined the iPhone, except for
him, right?
And so that's the other piece ofit is saying like, yes,
question those people likegenerally saying who are in your
world and what they like see asthe value and all that, and
then articulate to and pull inthose other pieces that maybe
aren't as noticeable but very,very, very much part of that
(52:51):
value that you give, all of thethings you know and the ways you
just intricately show up withpeople and and you know how that
result then you know 10 timesis their life, because now they
can, they know whatco-regulation is and how to
co-regulate and how to do it onthe spot, whereas before they
couldn't.
So it's taking hours or days oftheir life away.
Well, how do you place a valueon that?
(53:11):
Well, that's priceless.
So we got to at least put thatinto what's charged, because
that's a result.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
That's so good, okay.
What have we not talked aboutor named about money in this
podcast that you would want toadd or share?
What have we not said?
What have we not asked?
Speaker 3 (53:30):
I think what's really interesting and I don't know
that I've actually ever putwords to this before, but it's
come to me as we've been on thiscall today what's really
interesting is we live in a timewhere it is easier than ever to
be financially irresponsibleand unhealthy.
If you think about the duration, the majority of humanity you
(53:52):
had the coins you had in yourcoin purse and when they were
gone you starved.
Or you went out and got morecoins right, like that was kind
of that.
For most of humanity it's beenhere's what you have and here's
what you can get for it for mostpeople.
And now we live in a time whereit's not just kings and queens
who can buy things on reputationor credit.
(54:13):
Anybody can.
Anybody can live well beyondtheir means and can run their
business well beyond their means.
And we are constantly bombarded.
It's not just a few vendors atthe town market.
We are bombarded on everydevice, on every social media
platform with how we should begiving our money to someone else
(54:33):
in order for them to help ushave more money.
And so I think I have so muchempathy for people who are in
the stage you described earlier,because I've lived it where
you're really great at what youdo and the hardest part of
building your business has beenthe business part.
And yeah, what, what, the, the,the best antidote to all of
(55:00):
that?
I think the best, the best wayto navigate all of that is to be
very, very clear about yourfinances so that when the
emotional play is happening andsomebody is like, just give me
$10,000 and I'll be your coachand I'll give you this whole
platform this year and by nextyear you'll be making a million
dollars, you can feel theemotional draw of yearning, of
like I want that, I want that sobadly and it would be easy.
(55:22):
I could put it on a credit card.
I could put it on three creditcards maybe, but I could have it
.
No one's like there's nonatural stopping me.
I could have it in a way thatwould not contribute to my
financial health, but havingthat clarity and being able to
go back to the business and sayyou know what, the business
actually just can't afford that.
Or when it's a, sometimes youknow you do stretch yourself and
(55:44):
you say the business can'tafford that because here's how
we can pay it off in an amountof time that works for my
nervous system and also worksfor my business goals.
But without clarity and businessfinances we're just grasping at
straws and we're much morelikely to grab the shiny thing
that sounds really good, thatmakes our heartbeat faster, that
makes us excited, or somebodysaying I've got you, just give
(56:04):
me an unreasonable amount ofmoney and I've got you.
We're much more likely topursue those things versus
making an informed decision.
So I just think that, having alittle grace for ourselves that
it's really easy to befinancially unhealthy in this,
it's the easiest it's ever beento be living beyond our means
and be financially unhealthy,and that's not an excuse, that's
(56:27):
just an acknowledgement of areality.
What are we going to do aboutit?
We've got to get financialclarity so we can make informed
decisions.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
I mean it's countercultural, like the people
don't even really talk aboutmoney unless it's how much money
they make, or they're literallylike it's a normal thing in our
culture for celebrities to beor influencers to be showing
these halls and it's like youhave no idea if they're actually
making money or how muchthey're spending.
And like let's not even go tolike the consumerism and like
(56:55):
the like how many objects wehave and how overwhelming it is,
but like the self-control, likethere's just there's so many
things vying for our attentionand truly like our money and our
energy.
And I'm I like the way you weretalking about that Cause it's
making me me think, like ifmoney is an energy, like I don't
want that energy to be goingout of me faster than it's
(57:17):
coming in, like that's not good.
Nor is it good to have tons ofmoney coming in and then to like
be terrified to let any comeout, to not be like circulating
back into the world either.
I'm curious, tara Rose, whatwould you say?
What have we missed?
What else would you add aboutmoney and finances?
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Um, I, I love what you're both talking about.
I love the idea of of makingsure that you have, you know,
more coming in than than goingout, and also that clarity, so
that we're not it and yeah, notscattering the mind in all of
these different directions.
(57:58):
I think that is a really,really potent thing.
And to talk about money in thesense of health, I like how
Jenna Lee did that yeah, I don'tknow that I'd add anything else
other than starting to reallythink about how we can all
relate to money in a way whereit feels more like a
relationship than such a burden.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I love that a relationship and not a burden.
You guys, this has been such afun podcast.
I've loved this so much.
I don't know about you.
Thank you so so much for beinghere.
For those of you who arelistening, please, please, share
this on.
Share this on Instagram.
Tag us tag gutsy money.
Send us your questions, send usyour aha moments, like what
(58:42):
stood out to you, what resonated.
Take the time, leave a reviewand follow.
Make sure you get futureepisodes.
Definitely, go check out theother episode with Jenna Lee.
We talked about screen freedrevolution and it was one of the
first episodes, but it was sucha good one where we were
talking very like, very similar,but like totally different
topic at the same time.
And, tara Rose, it was so greatto meet you, the two of you
(59:05):
together.
I just I knew this about JennaLee, but I can see it in you too
.
You are women who love otherwomen.
Like there is not an ounce ofcompetition or comparison or
like who's better than who.
It's like how do we help eachother, how do we truly genuinely
pour into each other, and Ithink it's just so.
(59:26):
It gives me so much like myheart is so full, in the best
way of just like.
It's just so refreshing whenyou get to have conversations
where we're not we're notskirting around the issue, we're
telling the truth about hardshit, but we're talking about it
in a way that makes it not feelso hard, it makes it not feel
so complex, it's not so heavyLike.
(59:47):
This is a topic that for me,like even in the beginning of
the podcast, I was like I couldfeel my emotional like oh, this
is vulnerable.
Or like when I've shared acouple of things about myself, I
was like this is a littlevulnerable, this is a little
spiky, this is a little bit likeoh, I feel a little insecure
right now.
And yet there was this like butthis is a space where you can
talk about it, this is we canactually talk about it and make
(01:00:10):
it better for all of us.
So thank you both.
Is there anything else youwould say before we go?
Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
You're amazing.
Thank you so much for having us.
It's been really, really great.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment,
one small, tangible piece ofwork that you can bring into
your life, to get your hands alittle dirty, to get your skin
(01:00:47):
in the game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
If this podcast moved you, ifit inspired you, if it
encouraged you, please do me afavor and leave a review, send
an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women, and that's
(01:01:10):
what we're doing here.
So I hope you have an awesomeday, take really good care of
yourself and I'll see you nexttime.
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and thispodcast is for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to health,healing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do.
It's support for who we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
(00:25):
all of our soft and hardhumanity as holy.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to the Motherhood MentorPodcast.
(00:45):
Today I have two guests with me, which is super exciting.
I have the owners and foundersof Gutsy Money, and I am so
excited for this conversationbecause Jenna Lee is just one of
my favorite people in the worldand so anyone she likes, I
usually like them as well, andone of the topics that I know
she has talked about a ton inlike our mastermind and other
(01:08):
things like that is justteaching women about money,
especially in their businesses,and if there is anyone in this
world when I think of like if Iwas struggling with money while
really struggling with anything.
If I think of someone who Iwould want to ask, it'd be her,
because she shoots it straight,but it's from love, like she has
, that she will tell me thetruth about it, but she will do
(01:29):
it in a way that, like I knowshe cares about me, but she can
help me with it, and especiallywith money.
I'm so weird about money.
I'm sure I'm going to get myass handed to me in the best way
in this podcast.
So I'm super excited.
And, Tara Rose, I cannot waitto get to know you.
So will you two both introduceyourselves?
Let's start with Tara Rose,because I want to get to know
(01:50):
you and just introduceyourselves and Gutsy Money.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Awesome.
Okay, so do you do Rebecca orBecca, or either one.
Becca is great.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Becca Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you so much for having us today, and I could
not echo more loudly what youhave to say about Jenna Lee.
She really is the best ever,and so we can just start with
the Jenna Lee party here Agreed,the party you want to be at for
sure.
So I have founded severaldifferent nonprofit
organizations and for-profitcompanies in a variety of
(02:22):
different industries over mycareer, and I've also taught
entrepreneurship at a communitycollege and mentored several
venture startups, and theconversation for me just became
very clear as, especially, Ispoke to more and more women
around how one of their greatestfears, especially as they grow
in their success, is not havinga financial partner that they
(02:43):
can trust.
Who do I turn to when I havesome of these questions about
money and finances and growth,and how do I know I can trust
them?
Because I want to know they'renot just trying to sell me on
something else or this or that.
So that's really how GutsyMoney was born this idea that we
want to go and scoop up thewomen who are the most powerful
(03:05):
and passionate about makingchange in the world, building
solid companies, providing fortheir families and be that money
partner for them so they knowthat they have a place to land
and people that they can trust,and so gutsy.
The reason we're called gutsymoney is the idea that when you
have this solid foundation right, you think of like a volleyball
player going to run and jumpoff a sand.
(03:26):
Right, you have to likesometimes your feet sink in the
sand or you're like, oh my gosh,you're melting.
But if they're on a court andsand, volleyball is rad
generally and I both play, butit's a different game.
Your feet are sinking, it'sdifferent.
But if you have a court whichis equivalent to, like, your
financial foundation and you goand you jump off of that and
it's rock solid, you can makegutsy moves.
(03:47):
That's the whole thing.
Oh my gosh, I know exactly howmuch profit I have, I know
exactly where my revenue is, Iknow exactly what my expenses
are doing, and that means youcan make those really cool moves
in your business.
So, or in your life, you wantto take your kids on around the
world trip.
You want to add this nextservice while you have the
finances to do it, you knowwhere your money's at.
You get to be gutsy becauseyour nervous system is so
(04:10):
fundamentally nourished byknowing your money, and so
that's where gutsy money came in.
And that's just a little bitabout where I come from.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Already obsessed Generally, how would you
introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, so I have known Tara since she was 18 years old
.
We don't need to count thedecades that it's been since
then, but it is plural and shehas been just an extraordinary,
just wise, beyond her yearshuman from the moment I met her,
and I have waited theaforementioned decades for an
opportunity to be activelyinvolved in business with her.
(04:47):
We've always supported eachother in our businesses with
marketing and advice and contentand strategy, but this is the
first time that I have anopportunity to do business with
her, and she came to me with theidea for Gutsy Money and I
don't even think I let herfinish her sentence before I
said yes.
I was like, well, it's you.
So yes, it's money, one of myfavorite topics.
(05:09):
So yes, so double yes, and Ihave.
Also, I do not come from thenonprofit world, but I have
founded and co-founded numerousbusinesses and helped grow about
a dozen other organizationsover my career and time and time
again I have had theopportunity to work with people
(05:31):
who are so skilled at theircraft, who have an amazing idea
for a product or service, whoare legends at what they do, and
then the backend business stuffis really hard for them,
because being amazing at yourcraft does not, does not
necessarily equivalent to beinggreat at business.
And so these people are buildingorganizations, just like I've
(05:53):
built my organizations, and atthe same time that you're
building your organizations andtrying to attract leads and
trying to close those leads ohand then provide the services
for the people that you closeYou're also trying to figure out
all the backend business stuffand, unfortunately, bookkeeping
and tax preparation andanalyzing, like, the finances of
(06:13):
a business.
None of that is stuff that we'retaught in high school and many
of us aren't taught it incollege either.
And so when we embark on thisjourney of entrepreneurship,
there are just fundamentalthings that we can't like, like
good, good attitude our waythrough there, like we actually
have to know the nuts and boltsof them to be effective, and the
result of not knowing those isdecreased profits, it's
(06:35):
unnecessary overhead and, likeTara Rose said, it's missed
opportunities when we have achance to maybe add a service, a
line of service, to our agency,or when we have a chance to
like grow and bring on morecontractors or more employees or
partner with anotherorganization If we don't know
where we stand financially andwe can't make like an informed
(06:56):
decision about whether that'sright for our business and that
can be really detrimental, notto mention just missing out on
tax write offs, because I am afirm believer in giving only the
exact amount of money to thegovernment that they are owed,
and not one penny more.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
This is the perfect season of taxes.
Like I was, I keep.
We were watching a show andevery single ad was like a tax
thing.
And my kids were like why isthis?
And I was like, are people notat least basic keeping track of
their money?
Which also, to be fair, I'mprobably like when you were
describing people, I was likeyou can just say it's me Like
(07:29):
just say you're talking about me, it's fine.
No, but I think money is such abig foundation and it's one of
the core facets of like capacityin this generation Because, if
you think of in the past it wasfood, but in our culture, money
equals everything we need tolive.
(07:49):
So it's foundational for us and, I think, for many women.
I'll speak for myself.
I'm very uncomfortable talkingabout money.
I remember I was working withone of one of my first business
coaches and on the questionnaireshe was like how do you
remember women talking aboutmoney?
And I and I sat there and I waslike I don't, I don't, I, I.
(08:11):
I remember like my familysituation and like my parents
fighting about money.
I remember like the fights aboutspending versus saving and how
much was too much, and the likebudgeter versus the spender,
which I think is such afascinating thing, and like if
we're talking about relationalfinances, but even in like
business finances, in any realmof finances, all of a sudden I
(08:33):
was like I had no idea how muchmoney, drama and money I
wouldn't call, I don't, Iwouldn't say I have money,
trauma, but like I would saythat like there was a lot of
emotional baggage that came witheven just talking about money,
thinking about money, spendingmoney, saving money, how much
money I'm charging for things.
Can you just talk about like theenergetics or like the mental
(08:56):
side about money.
That like because we weretalking before we started
recording of, like because it'sso uncomfortable for so many
women, we just don't think aboutit, we don't talk about it, we
don't want to, we don't want tolook at it, which you know from
my perspective and anything.
As soon as you were saying thatabout money, I was like oh shit
, I know this with other areaswhere I'm like let's not shove
(09:17):
down the emotions, let's notpretend it's not there, cause
that won't help anyone, but talkto me about that with money.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh help anyone.
But talk to me about that withmoney.
Oh my gosh, so good.
And thank you for acknowledgingit and just for your honesty
around your own journey withmoney, because I think that
opens up the conversation evenmore for all of us to be so
authentic with it.
I was on a hike gosh a couple ofyears ago with a client of mine
and she is also a verysuccessful therapist and she's
like I just have to saysomething and I was like do it.
(09:48):
And she says I am going tocelebrate how much money I made
this month.
And she had been through a hugemove and she had gone through
all of these really challengingmoments in time.
And she's like I finally gotback to my $10,000 a month in my
therapy practice and I feelgood about it.
And like we looked at eachother and she burst into tears
(10:10):
and I burst into laughter and wehigh-fived on this hike and it
starts raining and it was likethis I have like full body
goosebumps just talking about it.
It was like this moment in timeof complete release, of like,
okay, okay, like we can just sayit and that's a success story,
right, but it's also just thatlike I can't even celebrate it,
and I think that is actuallypart of a huge part of the
(10:34):
conversation that we're alsomissing.
Oh my gosh, like I made alittle extra this month.
I'm starting to succeed.
But if I say that, someone elsemight feel bad or we might get
into this idea of like, oh, I'mbragging, I'm showing off, and,
like you said, you don't havememories of women talking about
money, because it has sort ofbeen one of those voodoo topics.
(10:54):
And so another instance that Iremember was when Jenna Lee and
I came together and I was like,well, I finally had to come to
grips with all of the debt thatI'm in.
And I shared, like, well, Ifinally had to come to grips
with all of the debt that I'm in, and I shared that with her and
I was like, I have so much debtfrom this venture that I had
done, and I finally calculatedit and even though this number
is six figures of debt, it'sokay.
(11:16):
It's okay because now I'm clearand now I can take the action
to get out of that debt.
And so when we start to say,hey, I just want to have a
conversation with you you beingwhoever that is let's pick a
woman in our lives who feelslike they are a safe container,
they can hold this space with us, just like you are, becca, for
so many of your incredibleclients.
(11:38):
Let's pick somebody and say I'mgoing to sit down and I'm going
to tell you everything about myfinances and I want you to tell
me how does that feel?
I'm going to just say, hey,okay, here's how much debt I
used to have or I do have now.
Here's what I'm scared about,here's what I'm thrilled about.
Here's my biggest damn dream.
Like my dream is to build acompany to this right.
(11:59):
And okay, so say they're,they're in the beauty industry
and they're like I'm going tobuild this company to $10
million and then I'm going tohave an exit.
Okay, like, let's talk aboutthose dreams, let's go there.
So let's go all the things thatare scary and where we're at and
where we're going and whatwe're calling in for ourselves,
and let's just have those moneyconversations and open them up,
(12:19):
because what that does releasesthat heart energy.
It releases the mental energy.
I had a really good friend sayto me several months ago she's
like we're only as sick as oursecrets and I liked that.
It's like gosh, we really are.
We're only trapped by thethings we're unwilling to shine
the light on, and so that's howI would say let's just start
(12:40):
there with opening theconversation, opening the energy
and I do want to emphasize withsomebody who has the capacity
and the container to hold that,and then have them share too,
because never, ever is it thecase that anyone's perfect
Spoiler alert and so what youjust said of I mean cause, I
(13:00):
mean one of the first things Ilearned in the healing world, if
you want to call it that, wasanything in the dark, anything
in the closet feels and looks somuch scarier.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
But I think many of us have also faced where we
brought something out of thecloset to someone who couldn't
contain it, to someone whoresponded in a way that actually
made it worse.
And I work with a lot of womenwho are in that position where
they're like I don't talk aboutthis because my life is so good
and grateful, so I'm not goingto talk about the skeletons in
my closet of my marriage becauseI don't want people to get
(13:33):
so-and-so perception of him, soI'm just going to not talk about
it.
And I think money is thatskeleton in the closet.
I mean.
I even think of my own journeyin business and especially in
the beginning of business I wasembarrassed about how little
money I was making, because itfelt insignificant, like it felt
too small to celebrate and yetto me it was like that was the
(13:53):
first, like real big girl moneyI made and like that was.
It was huge for me.
And then it's interesting.
I can remember certain times inmy business where, like, I
reached a marker that I toldmyself would be like the marker,
like I just want to make Xamount of dollars per month.
And it wasn't until the end ofthat year that all of a sudden,
(14:17):
I was like I did that all yearand I didn't even notice it.
I wasn't even celebrating it.
I was just constantly focusedon how I wasn't making my six
figures in my business.
Like every can we just I justwant to.
I love that people are tellingentrepreneurs that they can make
so much money, but the amountof shame that I've had, that
like not now and I know it'sillogical Like my brain knows
(14:40):
there's nothing wrong with yourbusiness, that you haven't made
six figures a year yet by yearfive, and yet so many people
talk about how much you make.
And it's crazy how there's thisshame about making too much or
making too little, but justbringing it into the light and
being able to talk about it withsomeone who will not shame you
(15:01):
but will have thataccountability.
I mean, one of the things thatwe talk about all the time
generally, like in groups ofwomen, is, like I want to talk
about this in a room that canhold responsibility, not
victimhood, but also not thetoxic positivity shit, like
there's no room for that.
I'm curious generally like whatdo you what?
Generally, what is yourviewpoint on money mindset and
(15:22):
the way we feel about money?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, what I think is really interesting about money
mindset is that it very rarelyhas anything to do with how much
money we made or how much moneywe netted.
And I have worked with peoplein business who have hit all of
their financial goals, who haveblown the lid off those
financial goals in terms ofincome, who have, at the end of
(15:45):
the year, had almost nothing toshow for it.
And it wasn't because they, itwasn't because they had to have
that level of expenses.
It was because their mindsetabout their about themselves
regarding money was they weren'tworthy of it.
It was going.
Their mindset about themselvesregarding money was they weren't
worthy of it.
It was going to be hard, theywere never going to have enough,
and oftentimes this type ofthing starts in our childhood
(16:08):
with how the money thermostatwas set in our childhood in our
family home.
If we haven't worked on thatand they took actions that
ensured that at the end of theyear, despite how much they made
, year over year I watched themdouble their business, and year
over year I watched theirprofits, what they had left
(16:28):
after their expenses, be aboutthe same, and so I think it's
critical that we really excavateour money mindset, how finances
were talked about and expressedin our childhood and how we
have approached money ever sincethen.
Because we're going to returnto, we're going to land on like
(16:51):
where we expect to be, and Ithink that that.
Likewise, I think we all knowthose people who just I have
this friend in Arizona who shejust can't not make money.
Like it's just amazing, likeshe just everything she touches
and she's smart and capable andamazing.
But she's not more smart andcapable and amazing than me or
(17:12):
than that other friend I had whojust ended every year barely
scraping by.
She just has an abundancemindset and she does the work.
I'm putting that in quotesbecause I get tired of hearing
it sometimes.
But there's a reality that ourmindset and our beliefs about
money dictate our results, justlike how we actually execute and
(17:33):
earn money and how we manageour expenses also generates our
results.
So I think it's twofold andputting all of our like eggs,
all of our eggs in one basketcalled I'm just going to have an
abundant mindset and you know,like put pictures of rich people
all over my office and it'sgoing to come to me, is
dangerous.
Likewise, saying look, I'm justgoing to make a bunch of money
(17:54):
and perfectly manage my financesand expect that I'm going to
have a different result when Ireally don't believe I'm worthy
of being wealthy or comfortableor at ease with money.
That's not going to work either.
So I think they're bothcritical.
What we help people with atGutsy Money is more the
fundamentals, the nuts and boltsof let's get a very clear
(18:16):
picture of your finances.
But once you have a clearpicture of your finances, if
they're not where you want themto be, that gives you a really
clear path forward.
Then, to analyze your moneymindset Okay, I've got this
great product or serviceoffering.
People want to pay me for it.
My expenses are fairly low, butI keep finding excuses to blow
money on a new wardrobe when Idon't need it, or to throw money
(18:36):
into, you know, a bunch ofadvertising that doesn't really
have a high ROI and, lo andbehold, my profitability is
really low.
All right.
Well then, something'shappening between those good
numbers and your end results,and that's something that's
happening in between those isyou.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
And I'm curious too, especially with like money
anxiety, like that anxiousnessand even I think that avoidance
of money.
You know, when I think ofanxious about money, it's not
just I'm feeling anxious whenI'm thinking about money, it's
I'm going to avoid thinkingabout it altogether.
Talk to me about that moneyanxiety, that people yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
So I have actually been there.
I um, I sold an agency a fewyears ago and I had a lot of
money in the bank, and so Ididn't have this, like you know.
Compared to when I lived incollege and I was living
paycheck to paycheck and I hadto perfectly manage my finances
in order to pay all my bills andhave the spending money I
desired, I was in a differentposition, where the money was
there.
(19:33):
I didn't know how much money wasthere, I didn't know how
quickly I was spending it.
I didn't notice.
This is embarrassing.
I didn't notice that I had like$3,000 in recurring
subscriptions for the businessthat I had sold.
That didn't get canceled by myex-business partner and just ran
through on my account like thatI had.
I was.
I was in total avoidance on myfinances in a positive way,
(19:58):
Cause I was like there's plentyof money, I just won't look.
And then by the time I looked,abundance, abundance, right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
It's all there, but like.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
No, I don't think.
I hope I'm never a level ofrich that I don't mourn $3,000
being wasted on software that Ididn't use Like that was a total
waste of resources.
I could do Even if I gave that$3,000 to charity.
Obviously I could do so muchgood in the world with $3,000
that flew out the window tothese unneeded subscriptions.
(20:25):
And so while I was in avoidance, despite having more than
enough resources to cover mylifestyle, I had more anxiety
than when I lived in.
I was in college and I wasliving paycheck to paycheck, but
I accounted for every.
I was in college and I wasliving paycheck to paycheck, but
I accounted for every penny,which is fascinating, right to
have a shitload of money in thebank and be more anxious about
your finances than when you weremaking $7.30 an hour at a
(20:48):
tanning salon in college.
So and so what I ultimately hadto do was I had to take action
on that.
So I'm a big believer that theonly antidote to anxiety is
action, because anxiety isfuture-based, it's
uncertainty-based.
When we're anxious, we're notanxious about the problem
directly in front of us that wecan do something about.
(21:11):
We're anxious about theunexpected.
We're anxious about thepotential future scenario that
may or may not happen.
We're anxious about the things,that scenario that may or may
not happen.
We're anxious about the thingsthat are cloudy or obscured from
us, that we're not, that wedon't quite have a handle on
right.
That's what gives us anxiety,and so what we can do by taking
action in the moment is it givesus a sense of control over
(21:35):
those uncertain, unexpected,unpredictable future outcomes.
It gives us in our body.
It shows us maybe I can'tpredict everything that will
happen, maybe I can't engineermy perfect long-term outcome,
but I can do something right now, and for me it was signing up
for Monarch, a financialmonitoring software, pulling all
(21:56):
of my accounts into one placeand spending hours and hours and
hours looking at everytransaction that had come
through my accounts in the lasttwo years and categorizing them,
and I had to face not only thethree plus thousand dollars of
unnecessary software I'daccidentally stayed subscribed
to, but a lot of wastefulspending I had to confront.
(22:17):
You know, here's what theaverage family of four spends to
eat out at restaurants, and I'ma single mom with one
six-year-old daughter andsomehow we're spending that same
amount.
That's perplexing.
So I had to confront a lot ofthings, and some things were
worse than I expected.
But you know what, as this is,we find this often for our
clients some things were so muchbetter than I expected.
Often, for our clients, somethings were so much better than
(22:38):
I expected, but my wholefeelings about my finances were
holistically better because Ihad clarity, because I took the
appropriate action in order toget clarity about.
Here's actually where I amright now.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah Well, and you took responsibility, which is
just the ability to respond,which you can't do if you're
ignoring what's going on.
And I think to speaking to themoney anxiety part.
Money is still cloudy for meand I'm still figuring it out
and it's getting more and morecomfortable because you know
it's a process.
Sometimes it's like little bylittle I'm growing and getting
(23:12):
better and I'm phenomenallybetter than I was five years ago
, for sure, especially on theentrepreneur side of financials,
because of course, I had noidea what I was doing right and
I was learning how to be a coachand a business owner, which are
two very different roles andthey both had to support each
other.
But like the coach part, Icould.
I could do that all day, everyday.
(23:32):
Like the entrepreneur side isactually the side that has been
so much harder for me.
But what I wanted to say withthe anxiety piece you know I
talk about this in coaching allof the time, but it's like
anxiety is you can't think yourway out of anxiety.
You can't think your way out ofit because, yes, it's mental
but it's also emotional in thatyour body is trying to avoid
(23:56):
something bad happening in thefuture.
But the problem with anxiety isit can't actually respond to
the future.
Your body can't act onsomething that's not actively
happening and it doesn't matterhow anxious you get, it won't
help that thing get better.
And so, with anxiety, so manypeople are trying to calm
themselves down and it's like,well, I don't know when I'm
(24:19):
super, super stressed andsomeone looks at me and they're
like calm down, I've never feltbetter.
I just feel now I'm anxious andpissed off, right Versus if
someone were to say okay, butwhat are you doing right now and
can you trust yourself?
And how you learn to trustyourself is by taking action
according to your values, evenif it's small and insignificant
is by taking action according toyour values, even if it's small
(24:41):
and insignificant.
When you take some small action, it provides this reminder to
your body that I will act.
I will respond If and whensomething bad does happen, which
it will.
This is life.
Your body is very wise.
It knows shitty things aregoing to happen, and then your
brain is like but we can preventit.
And it's like sometimes, butalso sometimes not, and so I
(25:03):
love that approach.
I'm curious, tara Rose, whatyou would add to that or what
you would say.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Sure, it really struck me before when you had
mentioned about, you know, allof the shame that you had
experienced, which I would.
Would you agree that shame canalso lead to anxiety and be
mixed up together?
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Oh yeah, because it, because it's I need to avoid
this part of myself.
It's what do I need to put inthe shadows?
What do I need to make sure?
What do I need to repress?
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right, yeah, absolutely.
And that and that really struckme because we do live in a
culture of just high cognitivedissonance.
You know people are saying, hey, here, create this immediate
six figure business and you havepeople spouting it off.
And so also earlier, when I wasmentioning owning your big
(25:55):
dreams, I hope it was clear thatI didn't mean like you have to
have a dream of a certain youknow money amount.
But I also feel like sometimeswe try to some of the most
authentic among us try to ignorethose big dreams because it's
like, oh well, I don't reallywant to get classified or put
into this container or this boxwith these things that maybe
feel a little bit untrue.
(26:16):
And so, just what you werementioning about seeing all
those things and feeling allthose things, I think it's so
important for us to also takesuch clear stock which I'm sure
you do very well in yourbusiness and for all of us to
like who are we listening to andare they telling the truth and
what are like when they'resaying something?
Are they telling the truth andwhat are like when they're
(26:37):
saying something?
How aligned is it to both myown values and to their own?
And sometimes we have todecipher that because, like you
were mentioning, like thesethings are out there and yet
they're not always true.
They're just not like there'sso much out there.
But then we internalize it andthink, oh my gosh, as these
people, as these go-getters, asthese women, that should be
(26:58):
immediately true for me too.
And then, oh, something's wrongwith me because it isn't.
And so, coming just back aroundto the action Jenna's talk
generally is talking about withyou know, taking the action for
the anxiety, starting withhaving that conversation like we
kind of mentioned, and hey, whoare we listening to and looking
at?
And, if there's any, anythingwe need to trim off from our
(27:20):
awareness and our senses tosupport ourselves so that we're
not being bombarded by thingsthat are creating that cognitive
dissonance, with or without ourimmediate knowledge, but maybe
even in our subconscious.
And then, from there, whatmoves can I make to create that
foundation and then begin togrow it incrementally and that's
(27:41):
the other thing too that I haveseen cause so much anxiety is
like it's almost like businessgrowth and making money becomes
a mystery.
Sometimes it's like huh, thisseems kind of mysterious.
I know I need paying clientsand I know I need these pieces,
but how do I put them alltogether?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It's not a mystery.
You're telling me that it's nota mystery.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
It feels like one, though right, it's like 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I'm sitting here like no, but I like it does feel
like a mystery to me and I dothink I mean part of that I I'm
aware of, like part of that isbecause I still have a a lack of
awareness and it's kind of oneof those I'm aware that I'm not
aware and you know I don't havea lot of the capacity to get
there.
But I'm curious where would youstart someone with the
(28:29):
foundation?
So like, let's say, someonecomes to you and they're just
like I don't know what I'm doingwith money.
I'm confused, I'm overwhelmed,I feel embarrassed, I don't know
what I'm doing.
What, like, are some of thosefoundations of financial health,
whether that's like personalbusiness?
Do you feel like personal andbusiness need to always mix?
I'm curious, like, what aresome of those foundations of,
(28:51):
like, healthy finances?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Well, so with Through Gutsy Money, we only work with
women business owners currently,so we don't address people's
personal finances.
But as an entrepreneur, youknow the line between business
and personal finances when youown your own business is a lot
fuzzier than I go to work.
I get a W-2 paycheck and allthe business finances have
really nothing to do with me.
(29:14):
My money's in my account everytwo weeks and so there's always
conversations about personalfinances with our clients.
But they do have to be businessowners, and we feel the best
place to start is firstunderstanding people's.
We actually always start withtheir mindset.
(29:35):
So, like, what are your painpoints?
What feels scary?
What are like?
What are your concerns?
What are some of the thingsmaybe that you haven't said to
anybody else?
Say them to us first, becausewe've got to sort of.
It's sort of like sweeping theroom of the dust bunnies before
you put a new coat of paint up.
Right, you got to get likeclean the whole area and then we
can paint it.
But if we paint it with all thedust bunnies, we're going to get
(29:55):
those stuck in the paint.
It's not going to look good,it's going to be a mess.
And so we start there.
We sort of clear out thecobwebs of shame, of guilt, of
misunderstanding.
One thing I think you weretalking about earlier with the
mystery of business, it's Idon't think it's that business
is so mysterious.
I think we have a misconceptionand an incorrect expectation
(30:18):
that business growth is likethis, like if this is our, this
is our graph, the businessgrowth is like this and a
reality business growth.
I love how Terry Rose used theword incremental.
It's more like a hockey stick.
That's my favorite thing that Ipicture.
And a hockey stick, if you, ifyou set it on the ground, it's
flat, it's flat, it's flat, it'sflat, it's flat for freaking
ever.
And then, when you don't wantit to be flat anymore, it's
still flat.
(30:38):
And then, finally, after allthis consistent effort and
building and growing and notgiving up and, by the way, most
people give up up near thehandle, mid stick, some people
give up right right at thebottom, right before it climbs.
But that that's the expectationfor business growth and it's
not what we're going to be soldin an Instagram reel when
somebody wants us to buy theirtotally unoriginal but they put
(31:01):
a spin on it.
Marketing package right, justdo these 10 things and you know
you'll have six figures in twomonths.
That's total crap.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
But then you go why isn't it working?
Cause I'm doing things and I'vebeen doing them consistently
for how long now?
And you're looking, going.
How long is this going to take?
I don't know if you guys areMadagascar fans, but I can't say
that without, how long is thisgoing to take?
Like King Julian, I alwaysthink that in my head, like when
it when we're talking about,like business success, and I
feel like that is such a goodanalogy.
(31:29):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah.
So the hockey shirt that saysdon't stop mid stick.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yes, oh my gosh, so many different meetings for that
shirt too, and I will wear itproudly.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
I love that, I love that so much and also I'm yes,
yes, please.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Yeah, so so we start by cleaning out the, the
emotional cobwebs, the, themindsets, the limiting beliefs,
all of that and that, and notnecessarily clearing those out
like they go away, but justmaking sure that everybody who's
involved is aware of them.
And then it's the setup.
So you need a structure inwhich to contain everything, and
so we set up, we help them setup a chart of accounts.
(32:11):
We talk about these are yourdifferent kinds of expenses, and
this is the difference betweena cost of good and an expense,
and this is why that matters.
And, by the way, it reallymatters.
One of those should fluctuateaccording to how many services
or products you sell, and one ofthose shouldn't.
And here's why that matters.
And so we were always seekingto not only do for our clients,
(32:32):
but to educate them on the why.
Because some people go on toDIY and they stay in the gutsy
money crew for accountabilityand support, and then some
people stay with us for fullservice bookkeeping and we
handle it all.
But even when we handle it all,we never want one of our
clients to be able to say toanyone in their life yeah, I
don't know, I just here's thenet number, and they tell me
(32:52):
every month that it's good orbad.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Absolutely.
As an example, the person whodoes my taxes for my business
they're connected to myhusband's business, which is
much, much more substantial andlong, long, they're in the high
of the the hockey stick Rightand my process for my taxes is
here is my PNL and I don't.
(33:15):
I don't know.
Not maybe that feelsembarrassing to say, but to say
like I don't know, like I don'tknow any things, and I feel so
silly.
And here's the thing I think ofmyself as someone who's like
pretty good at like awkward,difficult conversations, but I
feel like the biggest ass hat inthe world to go in and talk to.
I can't think of his actualname.
We'll call him Kyle Chad.
(33:36):
Yeah, we'll call him Chad.
That's good and he's not.
I'm sure he's perfectly nice,but I feel so silly to go in and
be like can you explain all ofthis?
Because I don't like can youtalk to me about my business
finances?
Like I feel so weird talking tohim because, again, I don't
know if he's going to evenhandle that.
Versus here's the actualnumbers, versus like here's.
(33:56):
Like he wouldn't hold my handlike you would.
So it feels like intimidatingto go to someone who feels like
they only deal in the structurewho won't talk to me about like
what this actually means when,like I'm, my business is a baby.
You know it's, it's a child,it's one one.
It's obviously not as equal tomy children, but it is.
(34:19):
It is this baby that I've built.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, and what if someone came in and told you
these are all the things youneed to do for parenting, but
I'm not going to tell you whyright and yeah, and defining
right and being able to defineall of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
It's money, is a language, right, it's an, it's
energy and it's a language.
And most of us aren't, likegenerally mentioned.
We're not taught this in highschool.
We're never taught thislanguage.
You know we go to class tolearn Spanish or German or
French or whatever.
Our you know first language isnot, but we don't go.
You know people are throwingaround EBITDA and you know like
(34:55):
like generally has a really funreel on Instagram about PNLs and
you know like like generallyhas a really fun reel on
Instagram about PNLs and youknow she thought it was PNL, not
profit and loss.
But how would we know that?
And we can't grow if ournervous systems are in the
freeze or the fight or flightstate, like you're saying, if
you're feeling like a massivedum-dum because this guy is just
going to like rattle a bunch ofstuff off, you have no idea
(35:17):
about how are you going to learn?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
And here's the wild part I don't even want to ask
that's right, like that's howweird money is for people and
I'm sharing that, so hopefullysomeone else out there doesn't
feel alone or like their failure.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, Jenna Lee and I .
Can I share the story aboutbeing naked or talking about
money?
So I call Jenna Lee.
After I talked to um, one ofour prospective clients and I
was like generally it justdawned on me that talking about
money is as hard or harder forsomebody as, like the first time
(35:51):
of getting naked in a room withlights, and generally says to
me she says, oh no, no, talkingabout money is way harder than
getting naked in front ofsomebody for the first time with
lights on.
I can do that, that, that I cando money.
Nope, and it was just in, itwas just a and we were, it was
(36:12):
tongue in cheek and we werejoking, right, but it's.
It's one of those things whereit really truly is one of the
toughest conversations for somany of us to have.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And it feels so exposing of things that I feel
like I should know, Like I feellike it's like putting on
display, like how bad I'madulting or like that I don't
care about my business which, bythe way, neither are true Like
it's just this one facet.
This is so random and possiblyoff topic, but for me money felt
so hard until I startedrealizing that there's other
(36:42):
concepts that I know how to takecare of and I just started
applying it to money.
For example, I'll remember Iwas at a women's business
conference and someone wassharing something about pricing
your offers.
She didn't say it, but she wasdescribing pricing your offers
in this one way and all of asudden my brain and my body went
my pricing is my boundary, Idon't I.
(37:06):
And back then I used to have somuch drama around how, how I was
pricing my offers and what Icharged women.
I was so dramatic about it.
But ever since that came to methis like oh, but boundaries,
because oh, if I'm undercharging and they're crossing my
boundary on accident, I willresent them and I will not be
able to show up to therelationship cleanly.
(37:27):
And so like I have to have whatI'm charging be over my level
of resentment and I can't everbe charging under that or it
will.
It doesn't.
Yes, it impacts me deeply, butyou know, I'm I'm a recovering
Enneagram too, so sometimes Ihave to remember, like, oh, that
it doesn't just impact me, itimpacts them as well, and I
(37:50):
think money is something thatprobably is influencing our
businesses and even our lives ina really big way, but, again,
people don't really talk aboutthat, even in, like the business
courses.
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Right, they're very.
They're either very they'reusually very vague or they're
telling part of the story, andthat's the part that really gets
my goat right.
They don't describe the wholehockey stick.
They describe the 10 minutesbefore the hockey stick shot up,
and that's really damaging.
And so to Tara Rose's earlierpoint, like, um, guarding
against who we allow toinfluence us is really damaging.
And so to Tara Rose's earlierpoint, like, guarding against
who we allow to influence us isreally important.
And I also think that's why thevalue of there's such a strong
(38:25):
value for in-person, or at leastlive, one-on-one mentorship.
And so I think the best advicethat I would give, like an
up-and-coming young woman, highschool college graduate, is find
someone who's where you want tobe and get in close
relationship with them.
Because when you're in closerelationship with them and you
ask them for that mentorship andthey agree to it, you're going
(38:46):
to see the stuff that is nevergoing to make it in an Instagram
reel, right, you're going tosee the struggles that they
continue to have.
They're just different as youget more successful.
It doesn't ever get easy.
It just gets different thingsand more expensive.
Get more successful.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
It doesn't ever get easy it just gets different
things and more expensive andmore expensive, as it turns out,
the more money you're making,the more money you're handling
and the more money you're losing, sometimes right Like, and you
know, more money, more problems,or what is the More money, more
problems.
That's not what I was trying tosay.
I was trying to say, likethere's a really good quote
about, like the bigger, theresponsibility.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Oh, just given much as expected yeah, that one.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
And instead I said more money, more problems.
I actually sneaky beliefs arecoming out right like oh hey,
hey, you and they are from a rapsong, so that that kind of
works, that works perfectly.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Oh, my goodness, Maybe mo money different
problems, which?
Because, right, if we see moneyis like our savior and it's
going to solve all the problems.
That's another mindset that youknow we have to overcome
because, yeah, yeah, and I am.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I'm grateful in that like I've gotten to work with
women who are way further alongin their businesses.
I've worked with some women who, like they, were making the
kind of money I wanted to makein like similar industries, and
I realized like, oh, they'vemade it to where they said they
always wanted to be and it stilldoesn't feel like enough.
It still doesn't, it stillisn't creating that safety that
(40:18):
they thought it would.
And so I really do think thatmindset is such a big thing
because it is.
It is just numbers andthankfully, like there is some
structure to it of like it's notthat mysterious, like I, like
I'm, that's my new.
Okay, I'm going to stop makingit mysterious, it's not that
mysterious, it's actually reallytangible.
See, I think okay, I'm going offon a tangent from what I was
(40:40):
originally talking about I thinkone of the beliefs for me I was
not very good at math and Istill am not Numbers confound me
, like I just even, like theydon't.
My brain doesn't retain them,and that's not me being
self-defeating, that's like alegitimate, like people's
emotions.
I got you numbers Like my brainand my body just like feel very
(41:03):
confused and weird and likepart of that, yeah, I'm sure, is
belief, but like part of it isjust like it's not.
It's not my gifting.
So I'm curious for those peoplewho feel like numbers just are
really hard for them.
What would you say for, like,is there any special, I don't
know, not approach, but whatwould you say to them?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
I would say thank goodness we're not still doing
business finances on abacuses,because that would be.
I'll let Tara Rose answer this.
But the but, the like, the net,net.
The punchline is it's not hardanymore, the software does it
for you.
I mean, once you have anexperienced bookkeeper set
everything up for you, itbecomes much easier with the use
(41:46):
of software like QuickBooks todo the actual math.
You're not going to be doingany adding or subtracting or
multiplying.
All of those type of thingswill be handled by the software.
And so you just need a crystalclear, accurate chart of
accounts and you know map to forhow you categorize your
transactions, and the systemdoes all of the.
Any actual mapping is run in areport by your accounting
(42:09):
software, which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
So all the people panicking right now for taxes,
who are like I'm not going to dothis again next year, how do
they make sure they don't panicagain this time next year with
taxes, like have someone helpset up an automated system?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Definitely, and that's what gutsy money can do.
Right then, when you doapproach numbers, you say you
(42:53):
know, what kind of newrelationship can I have with you
?
Because I feel like we havedifferent relationships with
everything in our lives.
Like you are so good atrelating to people's emotions,
like that's your jam, you cansit there, you can dive in, you
could do that probably all day,every day, forever.
And so with numbers, it's like,okay, you're just a little
relationship and we're different, you know, like, okay, I'm
(43:13):
going to relate to youdifferently.
I'm going to name you maybe myfinances, or like, can we
personify it?
Because I think, when we werereally empathic and you're able
to connect in, like let'spersonify that money.
Like you have a little money,honey, or like, so he could be
like super hot, like so sexy,like, oh, these, like so he
(43:33):
could be like super hot, like sosexy, like, oh, these curves.
Like you could talk to him like, hey, like Bruce, my money,
honey, okay, with your six packabs, I love it, why not, you
know?
And like, hey, I'm going topersonify it and I'm going to
say, bruce, I need you to go togutsy money today and I need you
to.
You know, get your, get yournumbers all done right, but we
can have fun with it, we canhave a new relationship with it
and we can own that.
This relationship is just hasto be different than other ones,
(43:55):
because it's it's we functiondifferently within.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
I love that so much, and while you, while you were
sharing that, what came up forme too is like that's
co-regulation, and I think I'm Itend to be this, and so many of
my clients do too of I'll do itmyself, I'll figure it out
myself, or at least I'll get themajority of the work done first
, and then I'll bring you mymore cleaned up version.
I'm not a mess, anybody.
(44:21):
I'll do the high functioningand then, once I have it figured
out, once I have a problem thatI can like bring to you really
simply, once I have like, oh, Iknow my solution, then I'll
bring my vulnerability, but,like I won't bring it when it's
all raw, I won't bring it whenit's all like just everywhere,
I'm just flopping around, andit's like when we get together
(44:42):
with other humans in that place,it rewires us, it changes us,
especially when you're in a roomof people who can hold it, for
people who have capacity andcompassion to not just be like
oh, you're fine, just stay messy.
Because actually, like I avoidthose conversations, like don't
get me wrong, I want people tobe compassionate and I want them
(45:02):
to honor where I'm at, but Iwant to be with people who also
say here's where you're at,here's how we make it better.
That's just.
It's just what's innate in me,like I just I want to make
everything better.
And so I'm sitting here nowthinking like why can't I just
apply that to money, of course.
Of course it can get better.
And I think too, the idea ofbeing in a room of of people
(45:26):
talking about this and sharingand doing it together, it's so
much easier because so many ofus don't, especially when you're
an entrepreneur, it can bereally easy, even when you have
community, to not be utilizingthat community, to have a
community that's only connectingon the surface level, versus
like linking arms and like doingtheir books together, like
(45:48):
that's powerful.
And I think that breaks so muchof the shame and the mindset
because you start being in aroom with people you look up to
who are going through the samethings as you and it kills
imposter syndrome and it killsall of that shame of I'm making
too much or I'm making toolittle.
Because as soon as you'resitting across from Jenna Lee
and she says how much she'smaking and you feel elation over
(46:09):
it, your body literally says,well, if it's okay for her, it's
okay for me, there is built inpermission and I think how cool
that you're doing that withmoney for entrepreneurs, because
I don't, I don't know if that'ssomething that really exists
out there.
I think most of the things thatI see, at least and maybe I'm
not following the right things,but it's like so much of the
business is how to make money,how to make money.
(46:30):
How to make money and, by theway, almost all of those sound
exactly the same and, by the way, I've been doing that for five
years.
So it's like how, how do I getdeeper and how do I build this
financial health?
I, you know, I've never reallythought of like the financial
health of my business, of what'scoming in and what's going out
(46:50):
and that energetic flow ofthings Talk to me a little bit
about, like the energy of moneyand like the exchange of money.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
One of the things that.
So you talked about boundariesearlier and charging that and
that was like for you and theone for me.
So how many times have we heardcharge what you're worth Charge
?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
what you're worth.
Oh my gosh, Just all the timeand I'm like that's not All the
time.
Okay, tell an insecurecodependent to what I'm worth
it's not going to be a highnumber.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
The worst, the worst, it's the worst.
And so somebody said chargebased on the results you get for
people.
You're not charging what you'reworth.
Your, your worth is just beyondthe beyond, right?
We can't put a number on yourworth.
What's the result you'regetting?
(47:45):
And we can then say, okay, I'mgetting a result for somebody
faster and more clearly, and Iam taking all this time away
from them having to learn itclearly and I am taking all this
time away from them having tolearn it.
All the headache, all the pain,that's what we're charging for.
Oh, okay.
And so energy is emotion, right?
Or emotion is energy in motion.
So we have that emotion aroundmoney.
When we have that energy, it'sa flow, it's an exchange, okay,
(48:10):
so, and it's an exchange for aresult.
It's not an exchange for ourvalue, that so and so.
When we separate those thingsand we say, okay, here we are
with money and this energy iscoming from them to me or from
me to them, and then it has this, these pathways, right.
So if you walk into a house andyour foundation is set, which is
(48:30):
that money foundation, it's setand you've decorated it
beautifully with this moneymindset, and then you can walk
through the halls and you'relike I love these pictures on
the walls of these things I'vedone and these services I offer
and the people I love around me,and it's beautiful.
And you go out into the backyardand you see something.
Well, it's great because youcould go in the front door and
walk through the house and comeout the back door and enjoy it,
(48:51):
because it's clear, the pathwaysare clear, and that's also why
we clarify our finances.
That's the energy, so thatthings can flow, just like we
walk into a beautiful house.
And now, if we don't havethings clear and we haven't had
the conversations or set up thefoundations, it's like walking
into a house with boxes andgarbage everywhere and it smells
kind of funny and we can't.
(49:12):
We can't get to the back doorand even if we do, the yards
overgrown, and so that's whatthat energy around money is.
It's the clarification, it's thefree flow.
Now the money can flow becauseit has its spaces to go, and
then we say here's what it's for, and more money knows what it's
for.
So now our money, more money,wants to be with us.
Money's like I can't wait to bewith that person, that woman,
(49:33):
because she knows what she'sdoing, because you're taking
care of it, you're taking careof it, and it grows and grows.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Okay, when you were talking, though, about pricing
things based off of the resultsthat people get, I think of the
work that I do and I'm likewhat's the monetary value?
Value Like it doesn't.
That doesn't feel obvious to meat all.
That feels very mysterious.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
What would you guys say to that?
I would say that's a.
It's a great.
It's why we do market research,because we let our clients tell
us the value it provides tothem.
So I also have been in coachingroles and there's I've been in
a.
Most of the services I'veoffered in my career have not
had a direct ROI.
It's not like saying I comeinto your business and I
increase your leads by 10%,which we can do the math for how
(50:23):
much that'll increase yoursales, and so thus your revenue
is going to go up X, y, z byworking with me.
And I even remember when I waswriting copy, like when I was
writing when I started mycopywriting career and I was
like well, I would pay 35 bucksan hour for somebody to write
this copy for me.
So I priced my services at 35bucks an hour.
And then, about a year into mybusiness, I realized everybody
(50:45):
who wanted to work with me isnot a writer, so their value of
my copy is much higher than myvalue.
I'm a freaking writer.
Of course, I'm not going to paysomeone very much money to do
what I could do for myself, butI'm definitely people are going
to pay me two, three times thatmuch and now pay me much more
than that to to write the copyfor them.
Because the value, because theyhave determined the value.
(51:08):
And I got to that by literallyasking, by talking to business
owners and finding out like whatis it worth to you to know that
the copy on your website isgoing to, perfectly, you know,
represent your brand and tellyour story and make it and allow
people to get a sense for youbefore they've actually
interacted with you?
What is that worth to you?
(51:28):
And sometimes you have to playaround with it.
Sometimes you increase too muchand you hit a ceiling and you
find out it's not working andyou bring it back down.
But most times I would say ninetimes out of 10, people are
undercharging in all theindustries I've worked in.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a.
I would like at some point loveto dive into that with you.
I think it's a pretty longconversation and I have lots of
questions and things.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
I know he loves that conversation with me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Just always like whatever you're charging, charge
more, cause I would pay it.
I mean I pay Becca or to bepart of mastermind with her and
to work with her, and I lovewhat I'm paying her.
It works for me, but I wouldpay her more.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yep, yeah, and, and.
So there there's that component.
And then also digging into allof the knowns and the unknowns
of the results.
Meaning, like one of myfavorite things Steve Jobs said
was like if I would have askedthe market about having a tiny
computer in your hand and I gettheir feedback, how do you think
that would have gone?
Terribly, terribly.
(52:28):
Not a single person could haveimagined the iPhone, except for
him, right?
And so that's the other piece ofit is saying like, yes,
question those people likegenerally saying who are in your
world and what they like see asthe value and all that, and
then articulate to and pull inthose other pieces that maybe
aren't as noticeable but very,very, very much part of that
(52:51):
value that you give, all of thethings you know and the ways you
just intricately show up withpeople and and you know how that
result then you know 10 timesis their life, because now they
can, they know whatco-regulation is and how to
co-regulate and how to do it onthe spot, whereas before they
couldn't.
So it's taking hours or days oftheir life away.
Well, how do you place a valueon that?
(53:11):
Well, that's priceless.
So we got to at least put thatinto what's charged, because
that's a result.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
That's so good, okay.
What have we not talked aboutor named about money in this
podcast that you would want toadd or share?
What have we not said?
What have we not asked?
Speaker 3 (53:30):
I think what's really interesting and I don't know
that I've actually ever putwords to this before, but it's
come to me as we've been on thiscall today what's really
interesting is we live in a timewhere it is easier than ever to
be financially irresponsibleand unhealthy.
If you think about the duration, the majority of humanity you
(53:52):
had the coins you had in yourcoin purse and when they were
gone you starved.
Or you went out and got morecoins right, like that was kind
of that.
For most of humanity it's beenhere's what you have and here's
what you can get for it for mostpeople.
And now we live in a time whereit's not just kings and queens
who can buy things on reputationor credit.
(54:13):
Anybody can.
Anybody can live well beyondtheir means and can run their
business well beyond their means.
And we are constantly bombarded.
It's not just a few vendors atthe town market.
We are bombarded on everydevice, on every social media
platform with how we should begiving our money to someone else
(54:33):
in order for them to help ushave more money.
And so I think I have so muchempathy for people who are in
the stage you described earlier,because I've lived it where
you're really great at what youdo and the hardest part of
building your business has beenthe business part.
And yeah, what, what, the, the,the best antidote to all of
(55:00):
that?
I think the best, the best wayto navigate all of that is to be
very, very clear about yourfinances so that when the
emotional play is happening andsomebody is like, just give me
$10,000 and I'll be your coachand I'll give you this whole
platform this year and by nextyear you'll be making a million
dollars, you can feel theemotional draw of yearning, of
like I want that, I want that sobadly and it would be easy.
(55:22):
I could put it on a credit card.
I could put it on three creditcards maybe, but I could have it
.
No one's like there's nonatural stopping me.
I could have it in a way thatwould not contribute to my
financial health, but havingthat clarity and being able to
go back to the business and sayyou know what, the business
actually just can't afford that.
Or when it's a, sometimes youknow you do stretch yourself and
(55:44):
you say the business can'tafford that because here's how
we can pay it off in an amountof time that works for my
nervous system and also worksfor my business goals.
But without clarity and businessfinances we're just grasping at
straws and we're much morelikely to grab the shiny thing
that sounds really good, thatmakes our heartbeat faster, that
makes us excited, or somebodysaying I've got you, just give
(56:04):
me an unreasonable amount ofmoney and I've got you.
We're much more likely topursue those things versus
making an informed decision.
So I just think that, having alittle grace for ourselves that
it's really easy to befinancially unhealthy in this,
it's the easiest it's ever beento be living beyond our means
and be financially unhealthy,and that's not an excuse, that's
(56:27):
just an acknowledgement of areality.
What are we going to do aboutit?
We've got to get financialclarity so we can make informed
decisions.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
I mean it's countercultural, like the people
don't even really talk aboutmoney unless it's how much money
they make, or they're literallylike it's a normal thing in our
culture for celebrities to beor influencers to be showing
these halls and it's like youhave no idea if they're actually
making money or how muchthey're spending.
And like let's not even go tolike the consumerism and like
(56:55):
the like how many objects wehave and how overwhelming it is,
but like the self-control, likethere's just there's so many
things vying for our attentionand truly like our money and our
energy.
And I'm I like the way you weretalking about that Cause it's
making me me think, like ifmoney is an energy, like I don't
want that energy to be goingout of me faster than it's
(57:17):
coming in, like that's not good.
Nor is it good to have tons ofmoney coming in and then to like
be terrified to let any comeout, to not be like circulating
back into the world either.
I'm curious, tara Rose, whatwould you say?
What have we missed?
What else would you add aboutmoney and finances?
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Um, I, I love what you're both talking about.
I love the idea of of makingsure that you have, you know,
more coming in than than goingout, and also that clarity, so
that we're not it and yeah, notscattering the mind in all of
these different directions.
(57:58):
I think that is a really,really potent thing.
And to talk about money in thesense of health, I like how
Jenna Lee did that yeah, I don'tknow that I'd add anything else
other than starting to reallythink about how we can all
relate to money in a way whereit feels more like a
relationship than such a burden.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I love that a relationship and not a burden.
You guys, this has been such afun podcast.
I've loved this so much.
I don't know about you.
Thank you so so much for beinghere.
For those of you who arelistening, please, please, share
this on.
Share this on Instagram.
Tag us tag gutsy money.
Send us your questions, send usyour aha moments, like what
(58:42):
stood out to you, what resonated.
Take the time, leave a reviewand follow.
Make sure you get futureepisodes.
Definitely, go check out theother episode with Jenna Lee.
We talked about screen freedrevolution and it was one of the
first episodes, but it was sucha good one where we were
talking very like, very similar,but like totally different
topic at the same time.
And, tara Rose, it was so greatto meet you, the two of you
(59:05):
together.
I just I knew this about JennaLee, but I can see it in you too
.
You are women who love otherwomen.
Like there is not an ounce ofcompetition or comparison or
like who's better than who.
It's like how do we help eachother, how do we truly genuinely
pour into each other, and Ithink it's just so.
(59:26):
It gives me so much like myheart is so full, in the best
way of just like.
It's just so refreshing whenyou get to have conversations
where we're not we're notskirting around the issue, we're
telling the truth about hardshit, but we're talking about it
in a way that makes it not feelso hard, it makes it not feel
so complex, it's not so heavyLike.
(59:47):
This is a topic that for me,like even in the beginning of
the podcast, I was like I couldfeel my emotional like oh, this
is vulnerable.
Or like when I've shared acouple of things about myself, I
was like this is a littlevulnerable, this is a little
spiky, this is a little bit likeoh, I feel a little insecure
right now.
And yet there was this like butthis is a space where you can
talk about it, this is we canactually talk about it and make
(01:00:10):
it better for all of us.
So thank you both.
Is there anything else youwould say before we go?
Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
You're amazing.
Thank you so much for having us.
It's been really, really great.
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment,
one small, tangible piece ofwork that you can bring into
your life, to get your hands alittle dirty, to get your skin
(01:00:47):
in the game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
If this podcast moved you, ifit inspired you, if it
encouraged you, please do me afavor and leave a review, send
an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women, and that's
(01:01:10):
what we're doing here.
So I hope you have an awesomeday, take really good care of
yourself and I'll see you nexttime.
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