The Dynamic Dance of Motherhood and Ambition: Negotiating Your Identity with Sasha Fedunchak

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Self care isn't selfish and the other narratives we hear so often about mom guilt and how they keep us inspired but fundamentally stuck. 

In this podcast Sasha and I dive deep into conversations around

-navigating shame and amibition and the pressures we face as moms and business owners.  

-Reclaiming and re-thinking what "selfish" is 

-Negotiating the identity challenges and shifts that come in seasons of motherhood 

-Defining success and productivity on your terms 

-the powerful role of self identity 

This podcast episode is a MUST listen. 

Sasha Fedunchak—an immigrant, ex-corporate global marketing director, IPEC Certified Professional Coach, speaker, mom to two girls and a serial founder who has scaled numerous businesses to multi-six figures while raising babies and redefining what it means to influence and lead.

She spent years mastering influence psychology, energy alignment, and business growth strategies that drive brands to boom and customers to say “yes.”

Now, Sasha works with visionary leaders who aim to challenge cultural norms, shake up their industries and create impact on their own terms. Her mission is to equip disruptive founders with the tools to lead with clarity, focus, and influence—both within themselves and in the world.

Where to find Sasha: 

https://www.sashafedunchak.com/

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-beauty-of-influence/id1713536229

If you’re ready to stop living on autopilot and start leading your life with deep presence, I’d love to work with you. Book a free interest call here: Click Here

💌 Want more? Follow me on Instagram @themotherhoodmentor for somatic tools, nervous system support, and real-talk on high-functioning burnout, ambition, healing perfectionism, and motherhood. And also pretty epic meme drops.

🎧 Did you love this episode? Be sure to follow and please take a quick moment to leave a review and send this episode to a friend. I'd love to hear from you on how this podcast impacted you, send me a DM or an email.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and thispodcast is for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to health,healing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do.
It's support for who we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding

(00:25):
all of our soft and hardhumanity as holy.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor Podcast.

(00:47):
Today, I have a really funguest, sasha.
We connected on Instagram overa post that I did of self-care
being selfish, not really makingsense to me, and we just
connected in the DMs and wantedto do some podcasts, and I'm
just so excited to learn moreabout you, so will you introduce
yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Of course.
Yes, thank you so much forhaving me.
Yeah, so my name is SashaFedunchak.
Everyone always struggles withmy last name.
It's a strong Russian last nameand, fun fact, I never changed
it after getting married becauseI am the only Fedunchak in this
entire country.
So I was like there's no wayI'm yeah, there's no way I'm

(01:28):
letting go of that last name.
So I am a mom of two, I've got afour-year-old and an
11-month-old, and I am alifelong marketer and
communications person.
So I had actually lived in FortCollins for a while.
That's where I got my master'sin communications at Colorado
State and I was in the corporateworld doing corporate

(01:48):
communications and marketing fora little over a decade.
And now I run a business growthand marketing agency called
Daring House and a media studiocalled Powerhouse Media.
We do photography and media forwomen-owned brands and I've got
a couple of other thingsbrewing that are centered around
motherhood.
So when I saw your post,especially the word selfish,

(02:12):
that was really interesting forme to kind of unpack that, and I
had to reach out and get toknow you.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I'm so curious, as someone who had an
established work life and evenlike a work identity what was it
like going into motherhood andbringing that like?
What was that transition likefor you, bringing babies into
your life, that role ofmotherhood?
How did that change businesslife?

(02:39):
How did that impact you as aperson?

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, that's a great question.
With my first, I actually hadowned a spray tan salon for a
couple of years in Philadelphiaand it was right around the time
that the world shut down.
It was literally the day beforethe world shut down I had like
a near-death experience.
I had a miscarriage, my firstmiscarriage, and ended up in the

(03:06):
ER, tons of blood loss, had toget an emergency DNC.
And so a few months later, whenthe world was starting to open
back up, I got pregnant with mynow four-year-old and that was
the first time that I had thisreally thriving, really
successful business and I alsowas carrying a baby and I was
like there was part of me thatwanted to do everything to keep

(03:30):
the momentum going of thebusiness.
I mean, it was like asix-figure business.
In six months I had a wholestorefront.
It was wildly successful.
I wasn't really into spraytanning but it was my first
journey into entrepreneurshipand where I leveraged my
branding and marketingbackground to make it successful
.
And it was the first time Ireally kind of felt that pull of
like what do I want to protectmore?

(03:52):
Because I had to make thechoice I felt.
You know it was a really scarytime Could I just welcome
strangers in and, you know, wearthe mask, but, like you know,
do the spray tanning while I'mpregnant what if something
happens again?
And so I chose my baby, whichactually looked like me, closing
the business entirely, and weactually moved out of
Philadelphia to a smallerPennsylvania town and that, you

(04:15):
know, felt very, very difficult.
There were a lot of tears.
It was something I poured a lotof years into and from there my
business evolved into abranding and marketing agency.
It was called Darren Creativeat the time and it was literally
, you know, my baby was born.
I kind of took some time offbetween closing my spray tan
business and opening the agency.
It was about four or fivemonths she was born and I just

(04:38):
felt this kind of ambition surgeback into me like, okay, now
she's here, I have to protecther, continue to protect her,
but like that means I have tomake money, that means I have to
, you know, do the work that I'mso passionate about doing.
And I literally built thatbusiness while, you know,
wearing her and the baby wearerbouncing around, you know,

(04:59):
getting clients doing branding,web projects, that kind of thing
.
And it was a really surrealexperience to become a mother
and also continue to become abusiness owner, because those
were two identities that Iwasn't really familiar with.
I feel like it would have beenreally different for me if I

(05:20):
just had the babies while I wasin corporate world, if that
makes sense, just because therewas a lot more longevity there.
So I feel like, in a way, I waskind of, you know, rebirthed,
like I became two other peopleplus the old me, and so there
was like this constantnegotiation between like who am
I today?
And I don't feel like that'sever really stopped in the last

(05:41):
four years.
If that makes sense, ifanything, it's, you know, kind
of welcomed a fourth or fifthversion of me with my second,
and that was really, reallyunexpected.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
I love that word like negotiating, like there was
this negotiation between thesetwo new parts of you and then,
like the old things, what feltdifferent Like?
Is that even like a tangibleexperience for you of like what

(06:12):
felt so different and inmotherhood and especially after
miscarriage, I mean that's suchlike a big grief and like a
medical, I mean just it's a lot.
It's a lot on your body,emotion, relationships.
What was that like once you gotinto motherhood and you have
this new baby and you have thisnew business?
Like that's a lot of newidentity.
What did that feel like?
Was it overwhelming?

(06:33):
Did it feel expansive?
Was it?
Did you have like that fog ofnew motherhood for you?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
I did, yeah, I would say with my first.
I think the really interestingthing too that well I know we
had talked about this in the DMswas how different you become as
you have different children too.
And with my first, I feel Iactually I think I still do
carry quite a bit of shamearound this, as I feel I blacked
out for two years.

(07:00):
I had so much of that cortisoland so much of that stress and
so much of that pressure I puton myself, not even to be a
perfect mom but just to figuremotherhood out.
And then you know to do thisbusiness successfully and it was
massively successful, thatbranding and web agency and you
know working that part time andjust you know killing it.

(07:24):
But there came a point where Iliterally went to a heart doctor
and had a heart monitorstrapped on me for three days,
because every time I wouldsimply stand up, I would pass
out, and I had no idea what wasgoing on.
They, of course, never figuredit out and they just said well,
it could be you know long COVID,or this or that or whatever.
But I think ultimately it wasjust that my body just never

(07:45):
could rest.
So the second I you know long,covid or this or that or
whatever, but I think ultimatelyit was just that my body just
never could rest.
So the second I, you know,would literally to be sitting
down at my desk, stand up, orsitting down with my child, and
stand up.
I would just fall right over.
So my experience with my firstwas, um, I the only way and I
know you will probablyunderstand this being, you know,
in the somatic world is like itjust felt like constant

(08:06):
flutters, right, like justconstant movement of every cell
in your body.
And to this day it's like aquestion I have you know, did I
put that on myself, you know?
Did I really have a choice inthat?
Or was that something that wasjust kind of like learned for me
, or more of like a traumaresponse, or a response to so
much new?

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, is that different now?
Is that something that's gone?
I'm curious like where that,like how that changed, cause
you're you're talking in likepast tense about that.
Yeah, did that changeeventually?
Did you?
Do you feel like you came outof that season Like in all of
those states of like you feltdifferently?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
You know what's so crazy?
Are you into human design by?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
chance.
I'm just now starting to learnabout it.
I, like, barely know thesurface.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Okay, so I'm no human design expert but I find it
interesting, and I find it, youknow, again just like
interesting to kind ofunderstand the world.
So I, my human design, is aprojector, so we are supposed to
do a lot of resting.
We're the ones that can kind oflike see a bigger picture and
things.
You know, we're often told likewe have to wait for the

(09:18):
invitation before we can, youknow, kind of like share what
we're picking up on, if you will.
And my first daughter is agenerator.
So she is like the energizerbunny right, like she's just
like go, go, go, go, go, go, gogo.
Even when she was, you know, inmy stomach, I would just
constantly feel her move.

(09:38):
And what's really interestingI've heard this before many
times is, you know, they saywhen you are pregnant, when you
have a child, your mitochondrialDNA literally changes.
And so with my first, you know,she had that constant energy
and I feel like it kind of tookme over, even when she had left
my body.
Now again in the best way, likeI love hanging out with her,

(10:01):
like she literally likeprojectors.
They kind of like willsometimes call us energy
vampires because we have none ofour own energy.
We kind of just pick up whatother people have.
So with my second she's also aprojector, she literally would
hardly move in my stomach Like Ihave one of those heartbeat
things.
I would use it every other daybecause I'd be like are you in
there?

(10:21):
Like what is going on?
You know she was born and she'slike a sloth baby.
She slept for like two monthsstraight.
You know she just doesn't havea ton of energy, she's just
really, really chill.
So when she was born I had acompletely different experience
to where I felt like my ambitionentirely abandoned me and I

(10:41):
remember, you know, walking, youknow with a stroller, and just
feeling like who am I?
Why do I not want to go back towork?
Like, why am I completelydisinterested?
Why do I just want to garden?
I was like what happened to me?
Someone who has been a type Ayou know, 4.0, high achiever my

(11:05):
entire life of 30, you know, sixyears before she was born, all
of a sudden felt like anidentity I wanted nothing to do
with and so I have noexplanation for it.
I only bring up the humandesign thing because I'm like
it's really interesting to thinkabout how they have kind of
changed my identity and myapproach to motherhood and also

(11:25):
my ambition.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, so when your ambition, it felt like it left
you and it sounds like it wasn'tjust like capacity, cause I
think a lot of times, you knowwhen, when I'm talking to women
about ambition and theirwork-life balance, it's like we
have these two different kindsof categories of like your
desire, of like what you want,and then this capacity of what
you need.
And for some women they haveall of this ambition but like

(11:51):
all of a sudden they don't havethe capacity on some level or
multiple levels.
But I'm hearing you say, likeyou didn't have the desire, like
you didn't want it as muchanymore.
So how did you shift yourbusiness, your businesses that
you had built, these likebecause that was like what, two
years and I'm like not great atmath, but like a couple years in

(12:11):
between this, like I'm going tobuild this new business, it's
going really well.
What did that look like, nowthat you don't have like this
huge big desire anymore?

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah.
So it was actually when I waspregnant with my second that I
made the decision of kind ofswitching daring creative
branding and web agency.
We were easily doing like 50,60 K months with very little
marketing effort, like it was a.
It was on track to be a sevenfigure business by its third
year and I completely said we'restopping it because I need to

(12:44):
do business differently.
I didn't want to have this hugeteam.
You know I didn't want to have20 projects a month.
I didn't.
I feel like I could kind offoresee that, the ambition or
the way that I was showing up.
You know I could foresee thesurrender needing to happen a
little bit.
And so that's when I made theshift to Daring House, where now

(13:05):
we still do branding and web,but we actually brought in my
husband which is like a wholeother podcast episode and like
that whole thing over the lastyear has been fucking insane but
anyway brought him in and wenow have a much smaller roster
of clients and we go much deeper.
So it really was kind of areflection of the transformation

(13:27):
that was happening with me islike I don't want to keep
spreading myself so thin andjust hitting the surface with
these other businesses.
I want to go much deeper and ithas been an extremely difficult
transition.
We're not doing 60K months yet,you know, and it's been well
over a year.
So it's not like I just changedthe name and it was the same

(13:47):
business.
I mean, it's a completelydifferent business model.
You know, bringing my husbandin, trying to figure out how to
do all of this on very littlesleep, even a year later, with,
like I said, that surrenderbeing okay, with that ambition
kind of ebbing in and out Toyour point.

(14:12):
Yes, there are some capacityissues right, you've got the two
kids now to worry about butalso, I think it's just like
that personal transformation andI think this is something that
I made okay for me after workingwith so many women because we
work primarily with women-ownedbrands in my businesses seeing
the pressure that they put onthemselves like they cannot
evolve their businesses, theycannot evolve what they're doing

(14:35):
.
You know they've got tocontinue to ride the momentum
and I just thought, like thatcan't be true for me, like the
businesses have to reflect whatis going on for me in my life,
Otherwise it's just not going tobe sustainable.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I love that you share that, because I think so many
women become entrepreneursbecause they want that quote
unquote work life balance.
They want to be able to dothings their way.
And then I think what's crazyis they're like, oh, I want to
be like my own boss to myselfand then like, like they end up
being really shitty bosses tothemselves.
They end up like repeating thesame patterns, those same
patterns of like not trustingthemselves, just constantly

(15:13):
being in hustle mode.
And I think what's crazy is,like so many women who are in
that hustle mode, it's not evenalways that they're
accomplishing more and it's likethey forget that like ambition
doesn't always like it can havethat hustle, but you don't
always have to be in that likeflight and fight mode, like just
constantly in panic.
I'm I'm really curious how yourbusiness feels now, now that you

(15:35):
like you've switched things andyou're pivoting.
Does it feel like home?
Does it feel, do you have thatLike what did I do?
How is like this transitionperiod for you been?
Yeah, I think.
Does it feel?
Do you have that like what didI do?
How has like this transitionperiod for you been?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, I think it's definitely natural anytime you
go through a transition, andI've had this thought many times
and threatened my husband manytimes that.
I'd be kicking him out of thebusiness.
Because there is that feelingof like what did I do, you know,
can I go back?
Because there is that feelingof like, what did I do, you know
, can I go back?
But I think that you know,you've got to learn to trust
yourself.
You've got to learn to followyour intuition, even if it feels

(16:20):
like, even if it feels like inthe moment you don't quite know
where it's going to lead.
Right, like when I had that kindof feeling with my second, like
okay, this has got to change.
I didn't know exactly what itwas going to look like or what
my content would look like orwhat my monthly revenue would
look like.
But I knew that if I didn'tlisten to myself, I would
absolutely regret it.
And I even you know, I even didthat with my first when I had
the decision around do I closemy business to kind of keep my

(16:43):
baby safe, or do I figure outhow to make it work?
And so I would say, like it's acontinuously you know
uncomfortable feeling.
But you know what's thealternative?
The alternative is just asuncomfortable, right, like or if
not worse, this constant hustle, like last week everyone had
flu A in my house.
So what could I do?

(17:04):
I could work super late atnight or get up in the morning
and sacrifice sleep and hustleand grind, and for what?
So I think there is really thatawareness that I've gotten at
least around, like we talkedabout before negotiation right,
and like not looking at it as asacrifice but as an exchange.
You know, what are you reallywilling to exchange in this

(17:27):
moment?
Like, what do you really want?
Do you want that sleep and thatrest and that healing, or do
you just want to?
You know, post something onInstagram, because that's what
the gurus tell you you need todo.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yeah, it's like this difference between doing
something to do it, doingsomething for the sake of the
external, immediate, likesatisfaction or production,
versus this understanding that,like, your wellbeing is one of
the most vital parts of you,both in motherhood and in
business.
And I think when so many womenare trying to you know, quote

(18:01):
unquote balance motherhood andbusiness, I think there's so
much guilt because they don'tunderstand that there's always
going to be that tension.
There's always going to be thistension of wanting more than
one thing and not just wantingit.
The women I work with, and evenmyself it's not that I just
want to have motherhood andbusiness, I want to show up

(18:22):
really fucking well to both, andalso marriage and my health,
and like I want to be a reallywhole well person.
Like that's a lot of differentthings, that's a lot of
different things in the day.
And there is this negotiation oflike what matters, what needs
and wants in the moment mattersthat like I have needs, I have
wants, and then so does mybusiness.

(18:44):
It's this own little entity,and so do my kids and my family,
and there's these differentseasons and days.
But I hear you saying like Ilove that word of negotiating
and feeling that tension.
I'm curious for you.
I feel like I hear so manywomen talk about mom guilt when
they're building businesses, andthat's.
I think I want new language forit, but I'm I'm curious, like

(19:06):
what your experience is, ifyou've ever experienced that.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, I have to say something, and this, like I feel
like this is like I don't knowif it's spicy, but I feel like
this is like important to say isI grew up with a really strong
Russian mom and also a lot oftrauma from my mom.
Let's just, let's call it whatit is a single mom.
Okay, I've seen a lot of shitin my life.

(19:34):
I did not have anywhere near,you know, a nice white picket
quote, unquote normal childhood,like nothing like that, and I
won't get into all of that.
But what that has given me is,for me, my perspective.
I don't know if everyone willagree with this or if you'll
even agree with this, but like Ithink people are looking to

(19:57):
make shit like so easy and happyand so like wonderful and
balanced all the time and likethat's just not fucking life,
like that's just not life.
And I think that my experiences, and the more like the women
that I work with too, you know,everybody's like a little gritty
, everyone's a little rougharound the edges, which I love,

(20:19):
because I think that there's arealism that's missing when it
comes to the modern conversationof motherhood, and working is
like it's just hard.
It's just hard, and I think thenegotiation is the hard part,
right, and becoming a betternegotiator is the best thing

(20:41):
that you can do.
How do you have that negotiation?
Have it quickly and then justlike, sit with it instead of
constantly going back and forth?
Right, because that's where thequote unquote imposter syndrome
comes in.
That's where the quote unquotemom guilt comes in, and the more
that we bring up these freakingterms, the more that they're
swirling around in our head,slowing us down and making us

(21:04):
feel terrible.
Like for me.
I'm like, okay, I don't want tobe on my phone in front of my
children, but if I have a reallyimportant thing to do in this
moment, I'm just going to do itfor five minutes and then I'm
going to go play with them.
And why would I waste more timethinking about how bad quote
unquote I felt being on my phonefor five minutes?

(21:25):
Right, like I make thatnegotiation and I move on.
And so I think you know I justput out a post about this around
imposter syndrome anderadicating this phrase and I
feel the same way about momguilt, because the more we talk
about certain things like for me, yes, you can have those
feelings, but if you'reconstantly talking about it, I

(21:46):
feel like you're furtherembedding it into your DNA
instead of just feeling it andletting it go.
I don't know how you feel aboutthat, but that's my feelings
when it comes to all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
I love it.
I'm sitting here like oh mygosh.
Yes, because here's the thingwhat so many women when they
describe like their quoteunquote mom guilt, I'm like one.
That's not guilt.
Guilt is when you are out ofalignment with a behavior and we
should have mom guilt.
I need to have that inner senseof this.

(22:18):
Feels bad because I'm doingsomething outside of my values
or I'm not showing up out in myvalues.
I need that little ping of this.
Doesn't feel good because I'mout of my values and then I need
to just change my behavior andtake action.
Like that's the purpose of momguilt and it's a really healthy
thing.
We need to have that.
But I think people use it asthis generalized.
I think there's so much peoplepleasing and fawning going on

(22:40):
with women that like we don'teven understand how deeply
rooted this comparison andperfectionism is.
I think perfectionism has takenon that word balance.
Every woman who wants to workwith me uses that word and most
of us end up it's like this deeprooted perfectionistic shame
and it's like we can't just feelgood and happy all the time.

(23:02):
That's actually not healthy,that's actually not well-being.
Like oh my gosh.
One of my pedestals right nowis like if I see one more
fucking reel about teaching momshow to be calm and how to
breathe, and it's like what ifwe teach moms how to feel their
anger and how to utilize it andhow to not like be overcome with
it or externalize it all of thetime on their kids?

(23:23):
Like that's a whole differentconversation.
It's like women are stilltrying to be this good girl,
we're still trying to fitourselves in this box and it's
like it's all made up.
It's all made up.
And when you realize that, it'slike you need to bring all of
your energy from like out thereon, like what she's doing and

(23:44):
what so-and-so told you to do,and what your family wants you
to do or your church or whateverthat is.
And it's like bring it backinto your own body and take
accountability for your life,like, take accountability for
your motherhood.
And I think a lot of women areout of alignment with their
personal responsibility.
I think there's a lot of womenwho are taking under

(24:04):
responsibility.
And then there's a lot of us,us high functioners.
We're taking overresponsibility because we've
bought into this personal growththat we could just be happy all
the time if we just follow theright steps I see it in
motherhood, I see it in business.
You even see it in the personalhealth world.
Steps I see it in motherhood, Isee it in business.
You even see it in the personalhealth world.
If you just have this perfectfive-step morning routine, the

(24:26):
perfect shed, and it's so fuckedup because all of us women are
looking to these things, going,oh, that will fix it.
That will fix it Versus, like,get back into your life, get
back into your body, get backinto your daily.
What needs me right now andwhat do I need?
What is mine, what is mine todo and what is not mine.
If you can come back to thatplace, to this

(24:47):
self-responsibility andaccountability, you'll know how
to feel bad and not have it be abig thing and not suffer with
it.
I think you know, for a longtime I was very victim-y and I
wanted people to really cater toit.
It specifically like my husbandand he never did bless it and I
hated that for so long.
But now that I'm mature andhealthy, I realized that like I

(25:11):
wanted things to be easy insteadof recognizing that like I was
fully capable of doing hard shitand that was such a big part of
my healing journey is likerealizing that, like, even if I
heal, it doesn't matter how muchhealing work I do, I'm still
going to be human.
I don't need to outrun it,outgrow it, outheal it.
So I love when you say we needto stop talking about it, and I

(25:33):
think this is the language weneed to start bringing is this
negotiation?
It's like balancing motherhoodand business is not pretty and
it's not cute, because it's adaily negotiation of what needs
you.
There's no perfect system orschedule, because once you have
that, your kids come and get theflu or something else happens

(25:54):
right.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, I mean, I'm just like
literally clapping under my deskat everything that you're
saying and I think you know, Ireally you know.
I know that there's power inputting words to how we're
feeling, but I also see, youknow, just to echo what you're
saying is like, you know, whenyou're like none of this exists,
it's like a fucking box.

(26:16):
You know, when it comes tobusiness and motherhood is
something that you know I talkedabout with this imposter
syndrome is like women reallybond over lack and moms really
bond over lack, and this is evensomething I'm learning in
marriage therapy is like womenlove to come together and
complain about you know all ofthe things and like, in a way,

(26:37):
you know, it's how we feel safe,especially because we don't
have these great fuckingvillages that we used to have,
and so how do we bond?
I mean, I've read research onthis that you know, if there's a
group of 10 women and eight ofthem are being like particularly
negative or, you know, talkingsmack on someone, those two have

(26:57):
to kind of fit in, otherwisethey're going to be expelled
from the group, and so it isalmost a comfort blanket to say
I have mom guilt.
Look, I'm a mom, I'm a girlboss and I have mom guilt.
It's like a comfort blanket tobe able to identify as someone
who's struggling, and I thinkwhat's actually so much more

(27:20):
empowering is not that we haveto like hide the struggle, but
just accept it.
You know, accept that no matter.
You know where your life is.
Like you should not that, likeyou should just be grateful, but
like it could always be worse.
You know what I mean.
Like for me.
I'm thinking what a fuckinggift that my kids have the flu.

(27:42):
I don't have to go and askanyone for a time off, you know
sure.
Did anything get done from thebusiness?
No.
Did content get posted?
No.
Did I make any sales last week?
No, but wow, we could be livingin a war torn area, like we
could.
You know, this flu A could be50,000 other things that are
deadly Like.

(28:07):
I think there's these constantlittle moments of joy or
gratitude that we can find, andnot from like a toxic positivity
, but just from like, wow,accept the good, so that when
the bad comes, you know there'salso good coming right, versus
just constantly harping on thebad.
I think that's really helped mesince my second like, as we
were talking about before, forme to just like kind of
recognize like this is gonna bea shit show, but like what's the

(28:30):
alternative, that I go back tothe corporate world and then I'm
like negotiating with someoneelse.
I'd rather negotiate withmyself.
You want to know the mostfucking empowering thing being a
mom, being a business owner theonly person I'm negotiating
with is myself and for me.
I'm so grateful for that andthat's what makes the hard days,
the zero sale days, the fluweeks, like it makes it just

(28:53):
okay.
We're rolling with the punchesright.
It makes me just continuouslybe able to get back up.
And yeah, I in a way kind oflearned that from my mom,
despite all of the trauma sheprobably ensued onto me.
But you know, being like thatRussian background, you know she
doesn't like to talk aboutfeelings, she doesn't like to

(29:14):
wax on about you know how muchanxiety you have or fear or
depression or whatever she'sjust like you get up, you do the
thing and in a way that can youknow that's led to a lot of
that high achievement in me.
But it's also given me somegood tools in the sense of like
you know what's the alternativehere.
You know what I mean, why sitaround and, you know, just talk

(29:35):
about, you know the mom guilt ortalk about the imposter
syndrome, like, at the end ofthe day, does that really help
my kids?
Does that really help me?
And for me it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, you just said so many good things.
I'm like having such a hardtime where I start Like one.
I think there's this powerfulthing that you're naming which
is like presence, like you'refully present where you are with
what you're doing, like I thinkso many women they live in this
like past state where they'relike just constantly talking
about and feeling the past orthey're constantly like

(30:09):
preemptively looking into thefuture and like that's making
them miss this moment, like whenmoms are like I don't want to
miss this and it's like wellthen, stop looking out into the
future and panicking aboutwhat's going to happen and come
back to like right where you are, what you're doing in this
moment.
And I think what's crazy?
Our culture, people talk somuch about toxic masculinity and

(30:31):
that's a conversation.
I like to call it unhealedmasculine, because masculine has
really healthy, wonderfulqualities.
But I think for a lot of womenthere's like this toxic,
unhealed feminine energy that wealso don't talk about, where
it's like there's these extremesand these polarities and I
don't think people have everbeen able, people haven't been

(30:51):
taught how to be with their owninternal polarities, so they
can't feel when they're goingone side to the other.
One of the biggest reasons Istarted this business is I felt
like I saw two different campsof moms.
There was the moms who hatedtheir lives.
There was the like everything'smessy, my husband's an ass, my
kids are overwhelming and I hatemy life and I hate my kids, and
obviously they weren't sayingit exactly like that, but it

(31:14):
just felt like all we could bondon was complaining and hating
our bodies and like justmiserable.
They seemed miserable withtheir lives or it seemed like it
was either that or it was thislike everything's perfect,
everything's wonderful.
We're never going to talk abouthow hard things are actually.
And I found myself in thisweird middle ground where I was

(31:36):
like I want to talk about thehard things, but I want to talk
about them in a way that isproductive and changes things
and takes accountability and hasgrace and compassion, but also
grit.
Like I had come out of thisplace where I was just like
always just spiraling in myemotions and like that wasn't
healthy for me, so like I had tolearn this between this area of

(32:00):
like this toxic positivity,where I was like trying to
pretend like everything wasperfect and you know, I call it
like I was sweeping all of thehardship under this rug of good
and grateful, because, likeeverything was so good and I was
so grateful and yet there wasthese parts of it that were
messy and hard, and then Irealized, like I'm allowed to
just be this person, this wholehuman who has all of it.

(32:24):
And I think so many women,they're craving that space, they
want that space.
And I think when you find thosewomen, when you find those
women who they like life, butthey also can talk about the
hard stuff, but in a differentperspective, without victim
mindset, with this empower, likeempowerment, not in the like

(32:44):
pink wash, rah, rah, we're allamazing and we can have it all,
but in this, like you are owningyour authority, you're owning
your own power to negotiate,like that's what empowers women
and moms, that's what empowersbusiness owners is when they
realize, like this is your life,what are you going to do with

(33:07):
it, what do you like?
You mentioned so many thingslike that brought back
perspective and I think a lot ofus have lost, perfected like
perspective, like I waslistening to a podcast the other
day and they were like we livelike kings, like, if you look
back not that long ago, like wenever have to be uncomfortable
with so many things and theslightest discomfort, like we've
lost a lot of that grit.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I love that you saidthe word productive.
If I'm being completely honestwith you, I was a little bit
hesitant to use it myselfbecause I don't want to.
You know, I feel like to becompletely vulnerable here as a
woman who, you know, is abusiness owner and is a mother
to you know, hustle, hustle,hustle, like be productive, be

(33:53):
productive.
But I think you said it in sucha beautiful way as, like
recognizing humanity and stillchoosing to move forward, like I
think that's the point andthat's the magic that a lot of
us have lost, because,especially if you're a business
owner, you're spending a lot oftime on social media, like
motherhood and entrepreneurshipcan be really performative.

(34:17):
And you know, I see the samekind of things over and over
again.
You know people tapping theirfingers and talking about how
overwhelmed they are as mothersand I'm so overstimulated and
blah, blah, blah.
And this is what my child didand it's like okay, that can be
true for you.
How can you find a place ofcalm?
Or, like, what do you need?
How can we start to talk aboutthings that move us forward

(34:39):
instead of keep us swirlingaround in this stuckness?
And that's where I was thefirst time around as a mom, I
was just go go, go, go go, shake, shake, shake, shake shake.
Everything had to be perfect.
My house had to be perfect inorder for me to have this
perfect career, in order foreverything to be perfect with my
daughter, and my husband coulddo nothing and everything he did

(35:00):
was wrong and blah, blah, blah,blah, blah.
And with the second one I'm justlike some days look good, some
days look bad, and you just kindof like surrender to the mess
of life and it is so much morebeautiful and I'm not even going
to say like, oh, I'm so muchhappier, but I'm definitely a
lot more present, I'm definitelya lot more aware, I definitely

(35:21):
feel like a fullness, like Ifeel rest.
You know I make differentchoices and like I wish more
mothers would have thatconversation around, like you
said, instead of trying to beeverything is perfect or
everything is a fucking mess, islike how can we just get
comfortable in the middle, getcomfortable in the

(35:42):
unpredictability of it all?
You know like that is humanityand I really, like that would be
my one wish for mothers is likeget comfortable in the humanity
of being a woman, of thebalance of the masculine and
feminine of the mess, becausethat's really what life is about
.
Like the second, we're tryingto put on a mask and like really

(36:04):
fit ourselves into a boxanywhere else, like we've lost
the plot, yeah, like we've lostthe plot.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah Well, and that word of production versus
performance.
When I think of performance, Iused to love the show, like so
you think you can dance, like Ilove watching people dance, and
there would be people who woulddo all of the right steps and
they'd get done, and they wouldsay like you weren't in it, like
there wasn't emotion.

(36:30):
And I think what's interestingI think so many women have
learned how to perform, they'velearned how to do all of the
right things, but there's thislike high functioning
disassociation, almost whereyou've become this brain and
your body and your soul and yourheart are just like your brain
is just like pulling thesestrings moving you along.
You're going through themotions, you feel like a ship in

(36:50):
the night, you're in this fogand you know how often do we
hear moms say like I don't feellike myself and it's like
because we've we become focusedso much on what we're performing
versus production and producing, which is creation.
Like if you can feel and noticein your own body and then even
in your motherhood or yourbusiness, like what am I

(37:12):
creating, what am I building?
Because that's the movement ofenergy that is our aliveness,
like that is your innate humanability, like there's no other
animals.
We are animals, right, we aremammals, and yet we are out here
doing like, making podcasts,making art, making music, like

(37:32):
creating these big, beautiful,crazy, wonderful, amazing lives.
Like our aliveness needs to beable to move.
We need to be able to receivefrom others, receive from the
earth, receive from like energy,receive from the women around
us.
But we also, if we have a bunchof energy coming in and no
energy is going out creatively,we don't feel like what we're

(37:55):
producing makes us more alive.
We become stagnant, right Likea pool that just sits there,
that doesn't have moving water,it gets gross and it smells bad
and it doesn't have as much lifein it versus if there's
movement in and out.
And I think, especially forwomen like us, who are, like,
highly ambitious and we want tocreate things, it's like paying

(38:18):
attention to the balance of likeinput, like where am I
receiving, where am I gathering,where am I getting and where am
I giving, what am I producingand how am I making that
creative life force, versus thisperformance of like trying to
pretend our way through life.
I really think it's like an act.
It's this like we lose contextand like connection to that self

(38:45):
, energy, that like aliveness ofyeah I would say I'm happier
than I used to be, but there'salso times where I'm a lot
sadder too.
But I have capacity for itbecause I have my whole self
online.
I feel my whole self being init and I'm present with it and I
don't have to run away from itbecause it's not happy and shiny

(39:06):
.
It's like, well, those parts ofme are powerful too, these parts
of me that I don't, like thatfeel a little cringy, those
actually are pretty powerful andthat's my aliveness, that's
energy that wants to dosomething, like you even
mentioned.
Like not all of those partsfrom your mom are pretty, but
like they do serve a purpose.
They worked, they worked for acertain thing in a certain time

(39:28):
and it's like we can't cutourselves off from those things.
And that's good news for womenwho are like I'm.
I'm so ambitious but like I'mburning out all the time.
It's like that part of you canlearn how to drive your ambition
without driving you up the wall.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Right, yeah, I love that you said that.
I mean this.
You've really kind of helpedconnect some dots, even in my
own head, because the other dayI saw this post about like the
patriarchy versus the matriarchyand one of the words there was
I don't think it was production,but it was around like
producing.
I think like production isinherently feminine and

(40:04):
something my husband will say tome is like you don't have to be
so productive all the time andI'm like, but I do, like that
actually feels so good to me,but it's in the volume.
And I'm like, but I do, thatactually feels so good to me,
but it's in the volume.
And I think the intention whichdifferentiates production in
the way that you're talkingabout it, in this gorgeously
integrated feminine way of beingand even running our businesses

(40:28):
, running our households,raising our children, and the
performative pressure of nonstopproduction or production
without intention.
Right, I don't do as much in mybusiness, but guess what?
We pay all the bills, we havefood in our fridge, I'm very
happy with the clients that wework with and I'm still

(40:52):
producing.
I'm just doing it with a lotmore intention.
That feels more aligned to meand I think this is the power of
women in business andentrepreneurship and like modern
you know the modern women likekind of doing it all is like,
yes, we can do it all, weactually can do it all.
It all is like, yes, we can doit all, we actually can do it

(41:15):
all.
But doing it all doesn't haveto look like 50,000 things.
Doing it all can be threethings.
Right, it's like you get todecide what your all looks like,
and that all is not going to beperfect day to day, but when
you have that intention which Ithink to your point and to your
work you've really got to getinto your body and you've got to
be able to like have thoseconversations with yourself so

(41:36):
you're not trying to keep upwith the Joneses or the
internets or whatever, butreally like what works for you
and your body and your familyand your business.
And I think that that's justsuch an interesting, such an
interesting nuance that enoughpeople don't talk about is like
ambitious women.
We can be ambitious, we can beproductive, we can do it all.

(42:00):
But what does that all reallylook like?
Right, because when we hear youknow, oh, I'm doing all the
things, I'm burnt out becauseI'm doing all the things.
Well, what does that list reallylook like?
You know, what are all thosethings that are really actually
important to moving the needleforward in your business or your
life, and what are you puttingon your plate?

(42:20):
Just so it looks like you'rebusy, because I think that's a
whole other thing with this,like performative femininity and
performative entrepreneurship,and motherhood is like we think
we need to be doing 50,000things.
So I think there's a reallyimportant distinction in quality
versus quantity when it comesto production, when it comes to,
you know, balancing ambition orintegrating ambition with

(42:43):
motherhood.
I think that is an interestingconversation, you know, for
women to unpack themselves and Icertainly have which again
allows you to be more peacefulin that messy middle, versus
feeling like you've really gotto put yourself into one box
versus the other.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, and even like when there's that, there's the
comparison outside yourself.
But I think also, too, a lot ofwomen will compare themselves
to like pre-baby or pre-two kids, or hey, this felt good last
year, but right now it doesn'tfeel good.
So it's like I'm consistentlytalking to women of like okay,
things look good, but how dothey feel?

(43:19):
How do they feel in motherhood,how do they feel in business?
How does the like sum total ofit feel?
And so paying attention to whatused to work isn't working
anymore.
I think so many women havebought into the like very hyper
masculine way ofentrepreneurship and building
business and even honestly likemotherhood and running a

(43:39):
household.
It's very like, once I findthis consistent routine, I'll
just stick to that day in andday out.
And it's like for most womenand even just all human beings,
not just women we are cyclicalbeings.
Like we are more tired inwinter, like our literal mammal
bodies are telling us to likestop doing more, Like go in a

(44:00):
cave and watch the fire, go tosleep early, sleep in late.
And yet we keep trying to showup the same in every season, and
I don't just mean like theseasons of weather, like it's
also like seasons of life, likeif you're going through a grief,
if you're going through massivehealing or even expansion, like
right, I've watched women gothrough expansive transformation

(44:20):
and it can look and feel verysimilar to like those hard
winter seasons where it's justthey lose some capacity, they're
meeting these edges ofthemselves, they don't have as
much drive or energy and there'sthis low level burnout, and
it's like if we can honor thatwithout spiraling in it, if we
can figure out what doesconsistency and health look like

(44:42):
in those low days and those lowseasons.
It gives us permission of thatpower of negotiation, which I
love.
That oh, that saying is so good,I'm going to that.
Like oh, that saying so good,I'm going to use it forever,
sasha.
Like it's so good, I love that.
It brings you back into this.
Stop trying to do it, even howyou did it last year, because
you're a different person thanlast year.

(45:03):
Your kids are different kidsthan last year.
Like your needs are going tochange and you have to have the
leadership to lead your life andwitness like this isn't working
anymore and we have to shiftand we have to pivot.
But if you're just constantlytrying to meet some impossible,
invisible marker, you're nevergoing to feel that presence

(45:23):
because you're constantly goingto be chasing something that
doesn't exist right now.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
You know, what that's just making me think of is like
, why do we forget that we arecontinuously evolving?
Like we see our kids oh, you'rea baby, Now you're a toddler,
Now you're a preteen, Now you'rea teen.
You've got all these differentphases and we've got this
understanding that our childrenare continuously evolving.
They're going to have differentneeds, they're going to have

(45:49):
different reactions to things,but for some reason, we think
that once we are what 18 or 30or 40, that like this is just
who we are.
I think we forget that, justlike our children, we literally
continuously evolve, year overyear, season over season, even
like cycle to cycle.
You know what I mean.
Like I've heard so many timesthat we are four different

(46:12):
people in just the you know onecycle If you're, you know
whatever menstruating woman, Iguess.
And so why do we put thispressure on ourselves?
Like we cannot change, wecannot evolve Again?
I think there's this beauty ofhumanity that people have just
forgotten, right Like, andwhether it's with social media

(46:36):
or with just like modern timesof thinking that we have to be a
certain way or that we have toreally.
Just, you know, like, once wehit this particular milestone,
we've got to like keep itforever.
I personally have neverexperienced that Like I I don't
compare myself to pre baby Sasha, I don't even remember her.

(46:58):
I mean like I do, like I honorher, like whatever.
But I'm like that would be likeme comparing myself today to me
when I was 18 years old, Likeit doesn't make sense.
It's a different chapter, right?
So I personally don't relate tothat.
I've always just kind of hadthat awareness and I think it's
because, like I've moved so muchin my life, I've lived in so

(47:18):
many different places, I've, youknow, just experienced a lot.
I feel like I grew up reallyyoung and so I always just kind
of like anticipate changeshappening and I think that's
part of you know, if you'refeeling burnt out, if you're
feeling like you're having ahard time, kind of staying
present, I think giving yourselfthat permission just to know
like transformation willcontinue to happen and like

(47:41):
that's just okay, Right, I thinkit's if no one else has given
you that permission, and itreally is like permission to be
present, ability to negotiateyour skills and negotiating with
yourself and like finding waysto be, you know, okay with the
messy middle of humanity.
Like if you can do that,everything else will fall into

(48:04):
place, I promise you.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, it's one of the one of the things that I love
about being a coach is like Iget to hear I don't know how,
like I get to hear the depths ofpeople's lives and from a
fairly wide not giant right,like they're all moms, so like
there's a lot of commonalitiesof them.
But one of the trends that I'veseen in many clients and not

(48:28):
all of them, but some is they'rehaving a hard time realizing
that they're still growing up somuch because their parents
never did.
I work with a lot of women whotheir parents have stayed stuck,
like they're getting older inage, but they haven't grown
emotionally, they haven't grownin relational skills, they

(48:51):
haven't grown in like who theyare, what they believe, how they
think like their parents.
They've outgrown their parentsemotionally.
They've outgrown their parentsspiritually or mentally in this
like they have kept maturing, atlike for some of them, like at
a very fast rate.
For some of them, just like they, their parents just stopped

(49:12):
their parents, like never.
They got to this certainadulthood and then everything
just stayed, and so I thinkthere has been I've seen this
theme in our generation ofthere's a lot of people who
didn't ever see parents growingup as adults and I I've I've
said this a couple times, butone of the greatest gifts in my

(49:33):
life is I watched my parentsgrow up as adults and I watched
them like even you know, beforeI had kids and even after like,
I've watched them change theirminds.
I've watched them want or likedifferent things, live at a
different pace.
They've they've shifted andthey've grown in maturity and
they, you know, they'redifferent people than who raised

(49:55):
me and I think that's been sucha gift for me because it's
given me this permission of likeI get to keep changing, I get
to keep growing and changing andlike shifting and moving and
and I don't know if a lot ofpeople have had that, though I'm
curious I'm curious if thatresonates with you at all.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm thinking, you know, of my
mom and definitely how sheraised me is very different than
who she is today.
Yeah, impact us quite a bitright Like there's.
No, I'm not going to pretend tobe a therapist or say like that

(50:34):
they don't, but I think that Ihave taken a lot upon myself and
I'm personally like a verycurious person and it has just
always been really important forme to like grow, you know.
So I don't really I can't saylike oh, I look at my mom and I
see how much she's changed andthat like inspires me or
motivates me or, you know, givesme some sort of like hope or

(50:57):
permission in any way.
Like I feel like I really havetaken it upon myself.
And you know, again, a lot ofthat, I think, has been because
I had certain, you know,struggles or because I had
certain things that I wanted tolet go of and I was like, how
can I change this?
Or, you know, back 10 years ago, right, how can I fix this
within myself?

(51:18):
But I think that you know, Ithink that that evolution or
kind of you know, getting towhat we're talking about, really
is possible for anyone.
I think you do just have tokind of be curious about it.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, and.
I think it's, I think it'saccessible to anyone because we
have to realize like we areadults now.
That's such a wild thing.
I know it seems so simple but,like I know, for me it took me a
while to realize like I can'tkeep blaming what happened, I
can't keep putting all.
And here's the thing.
I had legitimate trauma, I hadbeen a legitimate victim, but as

(51:51):
long as I clung to that anddidn't say like, okay, I now
have options, I now have choice,I now have agency and you know,
a lot of that was my healingjourney of like figuring out how
to feel, what is my agency inthis moment, coming back to the
present moment and not living inthe past.
But there's so many women whothey constantly get in this and

(52:12):
it's not logical.
They'd often don't recognize itbecause you know, I work with
very high functioning, veryambitious, very successful women
and it's like we'll sometimesbe talking and I'm like, do you
remember how old you are today?
Can you feel how old you are?
Can you feel how much accessyou have, how much resource, how
much capacity?
Because emotionally, sometimesthose little parts of us like

(52:34):
you know our posts we weretalking about of like the
self-care isn't selfish.
I think so many women theirenergy has been.
I need someone else to tell mewhat to do.
I don't trust myself with myown being bringing them back
into this.
Like you are a grown ass adult,you get to make your own
choices now, Like your parentshad their choices.

(52:55):
You're the other people in theworld.
They have your choices.
So if you can bring yourselfback into this place of choice
and agency and one of myfavorite little tricks is like I
constantly remind myself ofsomething absolutely wild that I
probably wouldn't go do andit'd be like I could use my free
will to go do this right now.
I probably won't, but I couldlike.
When women are like, oh, I haveto do this, I'm like do you, do

(53:19):
you have to do the dishes?
No, you don't.
Do you have to pick up yourhusband's clothes on the floor?
No, you don't.
Like.
Come back into your agency andpower.
Like you are giving yourauthority out to way too many
people, like your mother-in-law,your sister, like everyone.
And it's like bring yourselfback into.
What am I doing?
What am I doing in this momentand what am I doing the next?
And one of my favorite littleones is like I could go to the

(53:40):
store, buy a cake and eat thewhole thing.
Right now I'm not going to,because that wouldn't actually
feel good, but I love to justlike remind myself of like I can
make choices, which sounds solike as I'm saying it, it sounds
so silly and yet like that'sreally hard for a lot of women.
I mean, you look at ourgeneration and our culture and
it's like how many billions ofdollars are being spent on women

(54:03):
saying I don't trust myself onwhat to eat, how full I am, how
hungry I am and I'm saying thatas someone like who's had to
invest quite a bit of supportand like I don't even know how
to feed myself, like we don'teven trust ourselves for eating
yet alone business or raisingour kids.
So that like kind of comingback to that self-trust and your

(54:24):
intuition.
I'm curious if you feel likeyou always had that online or if
it's something you had todevelop.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
No, it no.
It's definitely something I'vehad to develop.
And it's so funny that you saidthis whole adult thing, because
I remember when my husband andI were dating, I think it was
also like cupcakes or cake or Idon't know.
It was some sort of somethingthat, like we wanted to have or
eat and I was like, well, Idon't know like if we can get it
like this late.
I don't remember the details,but I remember him literally

(54:52):
saying like we're adults, we cando whatever we want, and I was
like you know, I was like 29years old and I was like what?
And so this has definitely beensomething that's been evolving
for me over the last couple ofyears.
Especially is that trust inmyself, like the switch between
daring, creative and daringhouse.

(55:13):
You know the pulling back onwhat I'm doing.
You know my house being messierthan it's ever been and I walk
myself up in my office and justdo the things that like bring me
joy, which is working andpodcasting and all of those
things.
All of that intuition and liketrusting myself has been
something I've had to learn andthat's why I loved your post so

(55:34):
much about.
You know, self-care and thewhole like is this selfish thing
.
I mean so many industries areselling to us, exactly like you
said, and also because we workwith a lot of beauty, health and
wellness brands I hear themsaying this all the time and it
drives me nuts that, like takingcare of ourselves, we're trying
to say it's not selfish, but bysaying that we're actually

(55:57):
selling that it is.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
You're literally you know what I mean Directly to
that underlying belief that thisis selfish.
Exactly I mean on a mental level, but also, like you know my
whole post and maybe I'll linkit in the in the notes but like
it's not that women arecognitively, mentally going oh,
this is selfish for me to do.
It's that women have thisembodiment of focusing on what

(56:23):
everyone wants and needs fromthem versus what do I want and
need.
And I think what's wild is likeI love.
I love the beauty industry.
I'm a licensed cosmetologist.
That was like the first thing Idid out of school.
But I think there's so muchselling of self-care isn't
selfish when it's like that'snot.
Even women aren't logicallythinking.

(56:44):
This is selfish.
It's that I feel bad, which wealready talked about.
That a little bit right Of likewell, why do you feel bad?
Do you know?
Like what's the unconscious badfeeling in you?
Like, because that can be amyriad of different things, but
I don't think.
I think our culture is muchless emotionally intelligent
than we realize.
People don't have language fortheir emotions and their

(57:07):
experiences.
So we've slapped this label onself-care isn't selfish.
But I think for most women, I'mlike has anyone ever seen that?
And then like, done somethingdifferent?
Has that changed something?
So I'm curious, like, what'syour take on this Because, like
you, I've seen a couple posts ofyours of like the selfish mom
and I love.
I love it because I think it'salmost like reclaiming that word

(57:29):
.
I'm curious like, what do youthink with the self-care isn't
selfish?
I wanna hear your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Well, I personally hate that phrase.
Just in general, self-careisn't selfish for all the
reasons that you mentioned, butI do very strongly believe in
reclaiming the word selfishbecause I think that when we
become mothers, especially, welearn how to take care of these
other tiny beings, and whetheror not we ever had learned how

(57:59):
to take care of ourselves, wedefinitely deprioritize that.
And so I think prioritizingbeing selfish and you know, even
like I will go and say like oneof the things I'm working on is
kind of bringing this to life.
And so, yes, I'm doing theselike selfish mom flogs, but
really, even reclaiming, I'm abad mom with good habits, like

(58:23):
this idea of like, yes, maybe Idon't have the emotional
intelligence to like go on andon and on, but like being okay
with, like we talked aboutbefore, sometimes I feel like a
bad mom but I have good habits.
You know, I know how to findjoy for myself.
I know how to take a shower,because that's going to calm me
down.
I know that I can go for a walk.

(58:44):
I know I know what I need as ahuman being who also has value,
because, I will say, one of themost fucked up things of
motherhood is when you'repregnant and you're glowing and
everyone is caring about you andeveryone is, you know, fawning
over you, and then the secondyou have the baby.
You don't even go to a fuckingdoctor for six weeks.

(59:05):
Meanwhile, you take your babyevery couple of days and you
have literal wound the size of adinner plate in your stomach
and no one cares for six weekswhat could be going on with you
as you're losing gobs and gobsof blood.
Okay, that was my experienceand it's so fucking crazy.
And so, for me, this idea of,like, I'm selfish, whatever bad

(59:28):
mom looks like, I'm just gonnaown it that I could be a bad mom
today, but I at least have goodhabits, because I, for me, like
again, I'm not gonna go downthe path of saying I'm a
therapist and what are yourchildren gonna think?
Blah, blah, blah.
But if you can show your kidslike I have two girls, I want to
show them good habits.
Are there gonna be days that Ilose my shit on my kids?
Absolutely.

(59:49):
But are we still?
We still going to doaffirmations every night and so
you can tell yourself whatincredible like, what an
incredible human you are, andblah, blah, blah, absolutely
Like.
That is going to be the stuffthat I believe is going to have
a greater impact on them, andthus the world, than just how
good of a mom I am, how good ofa girl I am.
So for me, there's just yeahI'm extremely passionate about

(01:00:11):
those words and and that kind ofperspective on motherhood is
like we have to mother ourselves, we have to take care of
ourselves.
The system is not going to.
Motherhood is not the enemy,the system is the fucking enemy.
The society.
You know what I mean, likethese rules that we've made it
up.
That's the enemy, and so theonly thing that we have against
that is how we treat ourselves,and we have to prioritize that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Yeah, every time you were saying bad mom, I had this
like that sounds like such agood mom Like I, and I realized
like it's, like I think you'rebeing tongue in cheek of like
people consider that Like I feellike a bad mom, is that what
you mean?
Is is like you sometimes feellike you're being a bad mom when
you do it exactly yeah, becauseI feel like.

(01:00:56):
I feel like I'm a bad mombecause my shower was five extra
minutes, you know, and myhusband had to babysit the kids
while I shaved my legs, likeshit, like that like that
mindset is just it, like itblows my mind now, now, but like
I can think I'm like trying topicture myself years and years
and years ago Because, like whatI hear you saying is redefining

(01:01:16):
motherhood to be a season wherewe absolutely are dedicated and
devoted to our children, but weremember to center ourselves as
well and I think that is one ofthe most powerful things we can
give our kids.
Again, I get this powerfulperspective when I'm working
with mothers of how oftenthey're healing from having a
codependent martyr mom whomothered really well but didn't

(01:01:40):
exist in herself and that wasdamaging, that was traumatic for
women to grow up with a mom whodidn't exist, who didn't who
her whole emotional, and I couldgo on all day about this.
I'm going to try to like keepit.
I have a whole podcast withLouise on women who we get so

(01:02:01):
absorbed into this season thatwe stop existing and I think for
a time, especially when ourkids are babies, that
biologically makes sense, right.
Like it is all consuming and Idon't think we need to guilt
ourselves, but like there has tobe some leaning back into self.
There has to be at least thispendulation of I'm paying
attention to the baby.
But then I pull my energy andmy focus back on like, okay,

(01:02:22):
what does my body need?
What does my being, myemotional, my spiritual, my
environment, like, what do Ineed in this moment?
Because if the mother is welltaken care of, if a mother is
centered in herself and she ishealthy and well, that can only
benefit her kids.
Like we're not, like a selfishmother would be, a mother who's

(01:02:43):
like literally not even payingattention to her kids because
she's so self-absorbed intoherself.
But I can say I actually becameextraordinarily selfish, like
legitimately selfish, because Iwas so burnt out and I was
starving and desperate, becauseI was neglecting myself so much
that like I don't know if itimpacted my kids, because this

(01:03:05):
was like when they were reallylittle.
But I especially look at mymarriage and I'm like I couldn't
hold anything for him because Iwas so caught up in my own shit
, because I hadn't taken care ofit for so long I couldn't help
him, I couldn't support him, Icouldn't hear him out because I
had become self-centered,because I was so off balance.
And so bringing our energy andattention back into ourselves,

(01:03:27):
into our own wellbeing, ispivotal for health and really to
be a good mom.
I think parenting comes from theparent and when you focus on
the parent, the parentingfollows.
And same for business.
If you were an entrepreneur, oreven if you aren't if you're
looking at like I want thehealth of my work to be really
good, okay, focus on you,because it'll trickle down for

(01:03:50):
sure.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I mean yes, yes to
everything that you're saying.
And I again, I just I can't notnot harp on this importance of
honoring ourselves.
You know, and I've, I've seenthis in my own mother exactly
what you're talking about theinvisible mother.
Also, many friends you knowwomen my age or even a little

(01:04:17):
older, a little younger, who whoeven have older kids.
They're out of that stage.
They've got kids who are teensor kids in their late teens or
even recently, empty nesters,and they still are like who am I
?
And they've disappeared.
And I think this is one of themost tragic things that has
happened to women, I'd say, overthe last hundred years or so,
is that we disappear.
And we're disappearing in manyother ways lately, politically

(01:04:39):
and just with crazy stuffhappening in the world, and so I
think if you can honor yourself, if you can see yourself, if
you can value yourself, maketime for yourself, you won't
disappear.
And, exactly like you said, itwill be poured into your
children, it will be poured intoyour, your partner and your
business and all of the thingsthat you do.
But it starts with you.
Like I say this to our businessowners, our clients all the

(01:05:01):
time.
No one's going to care aboutyour business as much as you do,
and the same is true for you,Like, no one will care about you
as much as you do.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
It's just a hard, it's just a fact you know, yeah,
and what a gift for our kidstoo, of like they can't be the
center of our happiness that'stoo much to put on a kid or our
health, like they need motherswho are taking care of their own
.
So, oh my gosh, this was sogood.
Is there anything else wemissed?
Anything else that, like youjust want to name or like come

(01:05:31):
back to as we end?
No, I feel like we talked aboutso much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
I'm really yeah, like 50 different topics.
I think we can go deeper on,but it was such an honor to talk
to you, rebecca.
Thank you so much for having meon.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Oh, same to you.
I just I loved thisconversation and if you are
listening to this, we would loveto hear from you.
So share it to your stories,tag us, send us a question or an
aha moment, leave a review.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
I hope you guys enjoy thisepisode.
Thanks for joining me ontoday's episode of the

(01:06:05):
Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
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(01:06:29):
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(01:06:51):
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