October 28, 2025 • 60 mins
What if secure attachment isn’t about perfect parenting-but about steady leadership, honest repair, and a strong nervous system you can share with your kids?
In this conversation, therapist and mom of three Hannah Dorscher joins Becca to demystify attachment theory and bring it down to earth. Together they unpack the four attachment styles-secure, avoidant, anxious, and disorganized-and translate them into real-life tools you can use with newborns, toddlers, teens, and even your own relationships.
You’ll learn how to:
- Build earned secure attachment even if you didn’t have it growing up
- Repair after rupture (without guilt or over-explaining)
- Regulate before you co-regulate
- Use the “30% rule” to release perfectionism
- Recognize the difference between healthy dysregulation and attachment wounding
- Create nervous-system rituals that make home feel safe again
From postpartum overwhelm and partnership strain to teen pushback and mom guilt, this episode offers grounded, evidence-based guidance with room for your real life.
About Hannah:
I’m Hannah Dorsher, a therapist and attachment coach who helps moms heal anxiety and attachment wounds so they can feel confident, connected, and at ease in motherhood. With over a decade of experience and a Master’s in Counseling, I empower women to trust their instincts, build secure bonds with their children, and release the pressure and shame of “perfect” parenting.
Find Hannah:
If you’re ready to stop living on autopilot and start leading your life with deep presence, I’d love to work with you. Book a free interest call here: Click Here
💌 Want more? Follow me on Instagram @themotherhoodmentor for somatic tools, nervous system support, and real-talk on high-functioning burnout, ambition, healing perfectionism, and motherhood. And also pretty epic meme drops.
🎧 Did you love this episode? Be sure to follow and please take a quick moment to leave a review and send this episode to a friend. I'd love to hear from you on how this podcast impacted you, send me a DM or an email.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and this podcastis for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
gets that speak to health,healing, and growth in every
area of life.
This isn't just strategy, butwhat we do, it's important.
(00:22):
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
all of our stuff in our humanityas we.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
(00:42):
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm so excited for my guesttoday.
I have Hannah Dorscher, and sheis going to talk to us about
attachment.
It's a conversation and a topicthat I think really needs to be
had.
It's something that I think alot of moms and a lot of kids
are navigating and struggling.
And so I'm just really, reallyexcited to have you.
(01:04):
Hannah, will you introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yes, of course.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Hannah.
I'm a licensed therapist here inFort Collins, Colorado.
I also do attachment coachingfor women and moms.
I am a mom of three myself.
I've got a four-year-old boy, athree-year-old boy, and a
six-month-old baby girl.
And yeah, I'm married to my bestfriend.
(01:29):
We love all the typical Coloradostuff.
And yeah, basically what I dowith therapy is help moms and
women heal their attachmentwounds.
And I think throughout probablythe course of this podcast, I'll
use the term attachment a ton.
And so maybe we can start withsort of talking through just the
(01:52):
basics of what I even mean whenI'm saying attachment and what
different attachment styles are.
And then we can talk a littlebit about how different things
that can affect attachment, likebirth trauma, if that's all
right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's jump into like for peoplewho are new, what is attachment
and why does it so why does itmatter so much in motherhood for
us as mothers and then also forour kids?
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah.
So attachment is essentially thequality of the bond that a mom
or caregiver for the for thispodcast, I'll just say mom, but
um, it can be caregivers ingeneral.
Um, but it's the quality of thebond that the caregiver makes
with the child.
So that is what's going to laythe groundwork for your
(02:40):
attachment style.
And so there's a there's twodifferent categories of
attachment (02:45):
there's secure attachment and insecure
attachment.
Secure attachment is what we'reall striving for.
It's what we all want, it's whatwe want our kids to have.
And basically the gist of asecure attachment style is this
baby's mom is present, they areemotionally available, they are
(03:06):
responsive to the baby's needsand just like in tune with what
the baby needs, right?
It's kind of like when you're amom and you get that sense of,
oh, that cry means baby'shungry, or oh, that cry means
baby is super tired, right?
And you just sort of create thislike in-syncness with a baby.
When a baby experiences that,basically what they're learning
(03:29):
is I can trust other people tomeet my needs.
I can use my voice and my needswill get met, and I'm safe.
And when we look at what thatdoes to relationships like long
term, right?
This really lays the groundworkfor the types of relationships
that they're gonna seek in theirlife too, in terms of like
(03:50):
friendships, romantic partners,all of that kind of stuff.
So it's it's crazy, but we'redoing so much groundwork as
moms, like right off the batwith our kids in terms of
attachment.
And a secure attachment on themom's end with the baby is gonna
feel like it's it's gonna feelagain like you're just in sync
(04:10):
with your baby.
And that that creates moreconfidence as a mom, right?
Like when you feel like I knowmy baby and I can, I'm
comfortable and confident inmeeting their needs, you feel
good, right?
And that's that sense of like, Ifeel like I'm in sync and under
I understand my baby strengthensthat bond even more and
perpetuates even more of thosebehaviors that create a secure
(04:34):
attachment.
So that's secure.
And then we have insecureattachment, and there's a couple
different categories of aninsecure attachment.
So they're just the broaddefinition of insecure
attachment.
This is sort of this theopposite sense from secure.
So this might look like sort offeeling not safe, not heard, not
(04:57):
able to trust other people.
And this really happens when momor caregiver can't be present
with the baby.
Maybe they're really overwhelmedwith other stuff going on there
in their life, or you know, likewith a birth trauma, you you
come out of that and you'redealing with so much of your own
(05:18):
trauma, it's hard to be totallyemotionally available for that,
for your baby, right?
And so maybe sometimes you'reyou're present and available,
and then other times you're shutoff and withdrawn or cold,
right?
Or maybe you're so overwhelmedthat you're getting angry or
super anxious, right?
The baby's experience of this isgonna feel really inconsistent
(05:40):
for them.
And so they're not over timecreating enough of a consistent
experience to build that trustwith you.
And so we tend to see threedifferent types of an insecure
attachment.
There's avoidant.
So this type of attachment lookslike a child or a person who
(06:05):
avoids relying on anotherperson, right?
So they might feel like it'sjust easier or safer to kind of
go inward and rely onthemselves.
So being vulnerable with anotherperson is gonna be really hard.
They might stonewall, ghost, allof those kinds of things in
later life.
As a kid, it might look likeover-independence.
Like they're they don't need torely on mom, or when you walk in
(06:28):
the room, they don't reallyacknowledge you, they just keep
doing their own little thing,right?
They've sort of learned like Idon't, it's not safe to rely on
parents for comfort.
So I'm just gonna ignore my needfor that.
So that's avoidant.
Then there's also anxiousattachment.
This looks like in a child, itcan look like a child who acts
(06:49):
out a lot to get comfort orcontact for mom or caregivers.
It can look like a baby who'sreally easily dysregulated,
right?
So maybe cries a lot.
Idea, what they're doing istrying to use behaviors that are
gonna get like draw in comfortor contact.
(07:10):
But they don't develop thatsense of I can soothe myself and
rely on my mom when I need to.
So it's just kind of this, Ineed somebody to help me panic.
In later life, it's gonna looklike big trust issues, like
difficulty trusting a partner.
I guess that's at the core ofall of them.
But this one's gonna be veryobvious that there's trust
(07:31):
issues.
It's a very kind of externalattachment style.
You'll you'll see it.
Um, it can look like protestbehavior.
So that might be starting afight because you have a need,
but you can't express what youwant, right?
Expecting your partner to mindread and having a really big
reaction if they miss the mark.
So that's sort of the anxiousattachment style.
(07:51):
And then there's disorganized isthe last one.
And that's this like tug of war,sort of between both styles,
right?
So you'll see a person or achild kind of go back and forth
between withdrawing and tryingto kind of separate from people
and just protect themselves ontheir own, that independence.
(08:12):
And then a big push towardslike, wait, come back and help
me.
And so that one can be really,really tricky for relationships
for that child later on in lifebecause it is so chaotic and
partners tend to have a hardtime understanding what's going
on.
And it's very hot and cold, backand forth.
And so those are that's kind ofthe big overall maybe umbrella
(08:35):
picture of attachment.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Yeah, let's pause there because I'm sure if
especially if people are new toattachment, they're probably
hearing this and like that's alot.
They're probably thinking ofmaybe themselves now, themselves
in their 20s.
I know I was like hearing alittle bit of like, ooh, I can
see where I had that.
Uh-huh.
I see that one.
What's my husband's?
(08:57):
Okay.
Um, what was going on with mybabies and me and early
motherhood?
You know, I'm so far out of thatseason.
But if we just pause there for aminute and consider like, what's
coming up for you?
What are you, what are youhearing?
How is it feeling?
And I'm curious when we'retalking about attachment, tell
(09:18):
us more about like, is it set instone?
Because I think so many womenare going to hear that and have
that, like, ah shit.
Oh no.
Or like, oh, I know where myparents effed up, or where have
I gone wrong if they havetoddlers or teenagers, or maybe
even they're struggling in theirromantic life right now, going
like, oh wow, I definitely havea rough attachment style.
(09:40):
Where does repair come in?
Can this change?
Tell us more about that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Yeah.
So the beautiful thing aboutattachment is that it is not set
in stone, right?
So we may have, you know,thinking about myself as an
adult, like I was very anxiouslyattached throughout my, I mean,
really forever, but like itshowed up in dating.
That is not the case anymore forme.
(10:06):
I feel very secure.
And so what's so cool aboutattachment is that at any point,
if you want to start working onthat, you can totally change
your attachment style.
In fact, there's actually a termfor it.
It's called earned secureattachment.
So that's what research wouldcall like working towards a
secure attachment.
(10:27):
And then what's really, reallycool too is if you have kids and
you're noticing or kind ofreflecting on your own like
experience with your kids andyour relationship, and you're
thinking, like, ooh, maybe thereis some like attachment wounds
there or some like misses.
Number one, you do not have tobe perfect in order to create a
secure attachment in your kids.
(10:48):
In fact, what's crazy isresearch actually suggests you
only have to get it right about30% of the time.
Maybe I'm giving myself too muchcredit, but like I think I'd
probably do better than that.
For sure.
Like, I think, I don't know.
But like research says if you'rehitting it about 30% of the
time, and then maybe the other30% is you like trying to figure
it out, and then the other 30%is making repairs, right?
(11:14):
That you, your child is likelyto develop a secure attachment.
And so that should bring a lotof confidence and like calm to
moms, right?
Like you do not have to beperfect.
And the other cool thing aboutit is repair is such a big part
of building trust in arelationship and creating secure
attachment.
(11:34):
So anytime you you mess up, it'san opportunity for repair,
right?
Which actually then strengthensyour relationship and thus the
attachment between you and yourchild.
So I would look at, right, likeany any moment where you're
like, I did not handle that wellwith my toddler or my teenager,
(11:56):
go back and repair.
Like you get to have thatconversation with them of like,
hey, sorry, I raised my voicewith you, or I don't know,
snapped at you.
I was having a rough day, Ishould have handled that better.
That that kind of closes thatloop for that child, right?
Of like, okay, mom blew up atme.
That felt really icky, but momcame back and talked to me and
(12:19):
took accountability for it.
So now I know it wasn't my faultand I'm not bad, and that I can
trust mom, right?
She took accountability, I cantrust her.
So that strengthens the bond,which is so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
How important is that part to secure attachment?
Because what I'm hearing yousaying is, you know, I'm
actually thinking through thelens of a lot of the mothers
that I work with, they'reactually doing a lot of repair
work right now with theirmothers.
And when I say they're doingrepair work with their mothers,
it's actually not their mothersdoing repair work with them.
(12:51):
There's no repair work withtheir mothers because their
mothers don't acknowledge theruptures.
There's a lot of codependency, alot of like emotionally immature
mothers.
There's a lot of mothers wholike they are a vortex of need.
And I'm just curious, like, howimportant is that for us as
mothers with our kids to beacknowledging the ruptures when
(13:11):
they do happen?
Is that like a big part ofattachment?
Is not just the repair part,because the repair part has to
come after like anacknowledgement of the rupture,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
So repair is huge, right?
So, like again, that that the30% chunks, right?
30% is like making repairs.
So we do have to do that activework in order to repair with or
in order to strengthen ourchild's attachment.
Now, when we're looking at adultwomen trying to repair their
(13:44):
attachment because of thingsthat happened in their childhood
with their parents, we're notalways gonna get that repair
from our mom, right?
And that that's kind of whatyou're saying.
And so we have to work onhealing without that.
And there's totally a way to dothat.
So, what we do in situationslike that, I mean, we work on
(14:05):
accepting.
We're not maybe gonna get theparent that we deserved or
wanted or needed, right?
And not to say that these momsor parents are terrible, but
sometimes there's a mismatch inattachment needs, right?
So a great mom might just be alittle less emotionally in tune
than her very emotional child,right?
(14:28):
And so it creates over time thislike attachment rupture.
It's not that it's a terriblemom, but we do have to work on
accepting who our parentactually is, right?
And kind of coming to terms withthat and grieving what we wanted
and needed and didn't get.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
And if mom is you not going to take
accountability, not willing tosee the things that she did that
cause pain and kind of own up tothat and repair, then that's
where we spend more time is howdo I come to terms with the fact
that I'm not gonna get that, butI deserved it?
Right.
And leaning into theself-compassion that you can
feel for yourself and then sortof offering yourself a
(15:11):
corrective healing response,right?
So you sort of get to almostlike split off into parts,
right?
So you've got your nurturingcaretaker self and your hurt
self.
Maybe it's your wounded child,right?
And so you can actuallyvisualize giving the type of
nurturing you needed and didn'tget to that part of yourself
(15:32):
that's still hurt.
And that can be an amazingexperience towards healing,
right?
So we can't always base ourhealing and our growth and our
okayness on what other peopleare willing to do.
Sometimes we have to just kindof take charge and figure out a
way to provide that to ourselvesin the event that they can't or
(15:55):
won't.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
But when we've got kids in the home, right, they're
little and they do depend on us,it is more our job at that
point, right?
Because they, you know, whenthey're really little, all they
have is us as that security andthat safety.
And so then it is more of ourjob to be that external helper
(16:17):
for them with attachment.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
I'm really, I'm glad we slowed it down for that
because I do think that there'sso many different aspects to
attachment that are going tocome up for people when they're
learning this concept.
There's all of these differentparts and pieces of them, of
their own stuff and then liketheir kids, and then how their
stuff might be impacting theirkids' stuff.
(16:40):
So when it comes to women, howimportant is their attachment
style when it comes toinfluencing and, you know,
trying to think of the word,building their kids' attachment
style or influencing maybe?
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah.
So I think there's two differentways to look at that.
There's the woman who or the momwho is completely unaware of her
attachment style and patternsand all of that and hurts.
And then there's the mom who isaware of what's going on, but is
still working on healing andstill kind of working through
(17:16):
this like, how do I, how do Iheal this so that I am healthy
for my kids, right?
And so if we're looking at thefirst person who's completely
unaware, that is gonna have aneffect on your kids.
It just is, right?
Because you, depending on whatyour attachment style is or your
(17:36):
attachment patterns, like what'sprobably gonna happen is you're
not gonna be totally emotionallyavailable or able to be
vulnerable with your kids.
And they will pick up on that,right?
It requires vulnerability torepair, right?
It is hard to say, hey, I'msorry, I messed up.
And if you aren't able to bevulnerable because your
(17:58):
attachment patterns say it's notsafe to do so, right?
Then you're not going toprobably engage in that piece of
building attachment with yourkids when you mess up, and we
are all gonna mess up, likethat's a guarantee, right?
And so we have a lot of thesemaybe attachment hurts with no
repair that start building upover time with our kids.
And then they're gonna react tothat and probably create their
(18:21):
own attachment style, right?
And again, even if that's thecase, right?
Even if you are looking atyourself and you've got
teenagers now and you're like,oh my gosh, I was totally like
so avoidant when they were kids.
I just like, oh my gosh, it'sokay because you can still work
on that now, right?
(18:42):
You can change the pattern now,and that will pay off for your
teenage kids hugely.
So that's kind of the first, thefirst maybe scenario.
The second scenario is when aagain, that mom is aware of some
of her patterns, but working onthem, she's not perfect, but
trying.
Research actually shows that ifa mom is aware of and working on
(19:05):
healing, she is more likely tohave kids with a more secure
attachment.
So simply being aware of andworking on it and being able to
acknowledge, like, there wasthat again, and then going
through that repair cycle,simply doing that is enough to
get your kids on that secureattachment trajectory and be
(19:27):
moving yourself obviouslytowards secure too.
SPEAKER_00 (19:29):
And that is, I think that's so important for women to
hear because no, nobody saysthey're trying to be the perfect
mom.
Like, I've never had a woman inmy entire timeline of helping
women put on a form like, I needto be the perfect mom.
I'm trying to be the perfectmom.
But every single one of them isso hard on themselves.
Like these moms who are sointentional and they're trying
(19:52):
so damn hard.
Like they are so intentional,they're so aware, they're doing
so much healing work onthemselves and for their kids,
and they're advocating andthey're repairing and they're
like trying to figure out all oftheir stuff so they don't pass
it on to their kids.
And those moms are still like,I'm not doing enough, I'm not
doing good enough.
It's hurting, like they'reterrified what they're doing to
(20:14):
their kids.
And I think we have this likefear, anxiety for a lot of
mothers who are trying, we're soaware of like all the things
that we could do wrong that Ithink sometimes it creates that
anxiousness.
And I'm curious that that kindof leads me into I'm curious.
I'm like looking at my own earlymotherhood, and some of my
(20:37):
qualities were very likecodependent with my daughter.
And I was almost overlyattached, and I could see how
like that actually was creatingmore of an anxious attachment,
not only for her, but for me.
And I'm curious if you can speakto that a little bit because I
do think there's a lot of womenin this generation who were very
(20:57):
were wanting to like gentle orattachment parent.
And I think in some ways, someof us have gone too far.
And I'm like speaking, like, Iwent so far in toddlerhood where
like I be, I didn't have enoughself and I didn't have a
backbone.
And I think in a lot of ways, Iwas not creating a secure
attachment because I was almostlike too overly attuned to her.
(21:21):
I'm curious if there's a lens ofthat in attachment.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
For sure.
So that sounds a lot likeanxious, like you named it,
anxious attachment, right?
Where you are just like so intune with another person,
looking for any signs of likediscomfort or threat or danger
to the relationship, likeanything, right?
That you'll actually behyper-vigilant to it and maybe
even sort of fabricate, not thatyou're making stuff up, but
(21:49):
right, like read a sign assomething negative when it may
not have been.
Right.
And so that creates so muchanxiety, and your child will
pick up on that, right?
Because mom is not calm.
And if mom isn't calm andregulated, then something must
not be safe.
SPEAKER_02 (22:08):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Because we are with our kids, like we get to show
them like, I got you, I'm safe.
And if I'm if I'm feeling safe,then you can rest assured that
you're safe.
Right.
And so we want to be that calm,grounded, like attuned to the
right level parent, but it's soeasy, it's so easy to swing into
(22:31):
anxiety, right?
Because of course we all want todo like the best job ever.
Right.
We all want to do so much tolike create these healthy kids
with an awesome childhood.
And so we have to sort of likebe realistic too, right?
About like we're not gonna beperfect, right?
(22:52):
And we can't prevent all thingsfrom happening.
Like sometimes a child goingthrough like a little hardship
can be a good thing, right?
And creating resilience andstrength and coping strategies
on their own for how to dealwith things.
And so we don't want to bubblewrap our kids, right?
And so that really then the workis on you, right?
To step back and be like, oh mygosh, I am having so much
(23:15):
anxiety right now that I'm notlike on top of my kid right now
with this situation.
But I'm gonna deep breathe andtake a back seat right now and
just let them explore a littlebit, right?
And work through your ownanxiety instead of expecting
like closeness with them to fixthat for you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Right.
They become your soother ratherthan you learning to soothe
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
Yeah, or their emotions are constantly
triggering you.
And I'm curious when most peoplecome to you for attachment, is
it after birth trauma?
Is it in toddler season?
I'm just so curious because Ifeel like the majority of moms
find me and my work in toddlerseason.
Cause that's where all of asudden they go, Oh, this is
like, that's when their kidstarts triggering them.
(24:00):
That's when like they starthaving some like of that anxious
attachment.
That's when they start havingthis like, oh, why am I not this
cool, calm, collected personthat I really thought I was?
And you are, you are this badassperson.
And now all of a sudden thistoddler is ruining your day.
And you're like, oh shit, theyhave too much power over me.
Or I look at myself and my likeI'm going into that teen
(24:22):
parenting, and it's very similarto that toddler parenting where
all of a sudden I'm going, oh,I've got some deeper shit I'm
gonna have to figure out becausethis kid needs me to have such a
deep center of gravity so thatI'm not over being overly
anxious and too attached or likepulling myself back.
Like it's it's taking a lot ofintentional action again as a
(24:44):
parent.
And so I'm curious, like, wheredo women find you?
Is there like a commonality of aseason where this comes up?
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
So I see women like across the entire lifespan for
this.
Yeah, I have I have young womenwho are dating and are like, I
keep dating unavailable people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
That they're finding you like early on in life
because I'm like, oh my gosh,can we please find the like
teens and 20s women and likegive them this before
motherhood, please and thankyou?
Like, how many like really needthis?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yeah, so I I love my like college students who are
like, I need to do somethingdifferent.
This isn't working.
Um that's for them for real.
Yeah.
I mean, think about yes, howmuch nicer that makes everything
else if we kind of heal ourattachment stuff before going
into marriage and um, but then Ihave a lot of people also in
like early marriage wherethey're like, Oh my gosh, like
(25:43):
it just got real and I can'tlike break up with this person,
right?
Like it's a little more likeserious now, and so I need to
figure out these patterns.
I used to work a lot withcouples, I don't so much
anymore, but attachment shows upin every couple session I've
ever had.
So and then I have because I doEMDR, which is a trauma therapy,
(26:04):
I have quite a few people whocome for birth trauma.
And with that, I think what isso cool is we we sort of get to
work on healing, healing beforeit affects the bond.
Because attach uh birth traumaitself can affect attachment,
(26:25):
right?
Even if you start from a secureplace when you have a trauma
like that, it can affect yourability to bond with this baby
who's you know has so manyneeds, you know, newborn stage,
it's it's intense.
And so if you're not totallyable to be as available as
possible, despite the sleep andthe physical healing and all of
that kind of stuff, right?
(26:46):
Then we have even more issueswith bonding.
So I have quite a few that comefor that.
And then I would say I see anincrease with toddlerhood for
the same reasons.
It's like, you know, whenthey're a baby, you sort of feel
like I'm such a good mom, likeit's so I'm doing everything
right, it's so great.
And then when toddlerhood hits,it's like, oh my gosh, like
these tantrums and like I can't,I have a lot of dysregulation or
(27:10):
overstimulation, like, oh mygosh, I can't regulate.
Um, so I have a lot of people atthat time, and then I I think I
shared with you before, but Iwill see people into their like
senior years working onattachment stuff.
So it's really something thatspans the life cycle and will
get triggered with differentevents.
So it's not uncommon if you havelike attachment stuff for it to
(27:33):
peak out when you're dating, andthen maybe you do some work and
then marriage will flare it up,and then having kids will flare
it up, having kids leave thehouse will flare it up, like
different developmental stagesfor your kids.
Also, if you have someattachment trauma at certain
ages, sometimes when your kidsreach those ages, it can be
really triggering for you.
(27:53):
You know, so for instance, a lotof parents maybe would have used
like cry it out or spankings orsomething back in the day.
And then when your kids are thatage, that maybe that was
happening for you.
It can bring up a lot ofdysregulation for you as you're
trying to parent this child in adifferent way.
So yeah, it's I wouldn't say Ihave one population more than
(28:16):
the other, but there'sdefinitely a pattern on kind of
what causes people to come in.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Even just hearing those patterns, I think it gives
so much permission because, youknow, I I've come to different
seasons in my motherhood, and II remember, I think it was about
the third cycle, the third cycleof I would hit this season and
I'd all of a sudden be like, whyis this so hard?
Because there's been seasonswhere it feels like it's hard
(28:42):
because my kid is in a newseason and I have to like switch
my parenting tactics, where likeI swear, like within the span of
a week, all of a sudden you'relike, none of my old parenting
tools are working.
Why isn't this working?
What happened?
Like the way that I'm talking toyou, the way that we're
disciplining, the way that we'redoing boundaries, like all of a
sudden it like doesn't work.
There's that kind of parentinghard.
(29:03):
But there's also been theseseasons of parenting where as
I'm parenting my kids, Irealize, oh, it's triggering
something in me.
It's triggering a wounding or aresponse, or there's some pretty
big timelines for me where likeall of a sudden it's like it
hits me in my body and in myemotions before I ever
cognitively go, oh shit, thatwas like a really hard year for
(29:27):
me.
And it's bringing my stuff up.
And something you were talkingabout earlier, especially when
you're talking about like thatpostpartum period, I think a lot
of women are afraid of therapyor trauma healing or EMDR or
coaching or whatever it might bebecause they're so terrified
it's gonna make it harder.
(29:48):
Like, I think that's a bigreason why women don't go.
They're like, it's I it'salready too hard.
I'm already overwhelmed.
But something you said earlier,I'm like, no, no, no, this makes
it easier.
This helps you hold the hard.
The hard is already there.
You're already experiencing it.
And I'd want to give womenpermission that it's like
there's so many powerfulpractitioners who know how to
(30:12):
help you do things in a sequencewhere like you're not digging
stuff up when you don't have thecapacity.
You're just bringing in support.
And like when you're talkingabout healing these things and
helping these things as early aspossible, it's like this is only
going to make it easier for you,not harder.
And there is some discomfortthat comes with it.
(30:33):
There's, but it sounds like itwould make it so much easier,
especially if we were more awareof this in those earlier seasons
of motherhood.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Yeah, for sure.
unknown (30:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
And I, you know, I won't lie, like dealing working
through trauma, whether it'sbirth trauma, attachment trauma,
you know, whatever, it isdifficult.
Yeah.
Right.
It is not fun to unpack that.
It's easier or feels easiermaybe in the moment to just push
it away and ignore it the bestyou can.
But it will find you again,right?
(31:07):
Not to sound creepy, but likewhat you don't heal will show up
again in some way.
And so it absolutely does makeit easier in the long run if we
sort of tackle that head on,right?
That's not to say you walk intoyour first therapy session and
we're just like diving into liketraumatic memories and
(31:28):
processing and stuff, right?
There's a there's a process ofbuilding rapport with a
therapist or a coach orwhatever.
There's a process of making sureyou feel safe, right?
Like in the relationship with meor whoever you're working with.
And there's the whole processtoo of giving you the tools to
safely unpack and safelyprocess, right?
(31:50):
So a good therapist is going tohave their finger on that pulse
the whole time, right?
We're never trying to push youpast your like window of
tolerance.
It's working within that togently expand it, is what we're
doing.
So yeah, it is scary though.
I just want to validate that.
Like it's it's hard to do.
And it's hard to bring stuff uptoo, like difficult things from
(32:13):
childhood, especially whenyou're an adult now, right?
It's kind of like, I don't wantto think about all that stuff
and have to sift through it, butit's worth it.
And and like I said, theresearch shows that even just
working on it and being aware ofit helps your kids.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Right.
So you don't have to like put atimeline on, oh, I need to be
healed before they're likeconsciously aware.
Like you just be working on itand just being aware, that's
enough.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah.
Well, and even as you weresaying that, it's like I can't,
I there's been so many times inmy life continuously, and you
know, I literally do this forwork.
And me, myself, in my personallife, I'll come back to
something and I'm like, thisagain or this again, but from a
new angle.
And it's like, wait, I've donethis.
Like, I have that response in meso many times where I'm like,
(33:02):
ugh, I've done this, I've talkedabout this, I've healed it, I've
worked on it.
And and then it'll come back.
But like when it does come back,it's like, okay, but I have more
resource now.
I have more maturity now.
I have a new vision now.
I have a new lease on life, likeI have new tools.
It's not the same.
I'm not spiraling backwards, butlike I get it.
(33:24):
I get that feeling of like, Idon't want to talk about this
anymore.
I just want to be better.
And I think that's why a lot ofpeople are drawn to like the
mental cognitive process,because like then we just get to
be logical adults and pretendlike we know all of our shit and
have it all together.
But I think so many of us, wehave those younger parts show
(33:45):
up, especially when we're notexpecting it or we think we're
so sophisticated and healed.
And then you have that stuffcome up and it's like, ugh, this
again.
I don't want to do this.
And it's like, okay, but if wedo this, we get to take care of
it when it's not when it's likeold and sticky and has woven its
way in more complex and honestlyreally hard ways to pull apart.
SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's, I mean, I'm atherapist and I specialize in
this, and I still will be likethe most immature person with my
husband sometimes.
Like it's embarrassing, and Idon't want my clients to know
about this, but like, like ifI'm being honest, there are
still times when like I havethis internal battle in my head
of like, Hannah, just say whatyou need.
(34:29):
Like, stomping around is notgonna get you a hug.
So say you need a hug, you knowwhat I mean?
And I have this little warinside my head of like my little
attachment child is so activatedright now.
And I'm like, this is what I dofor a living, you know what I
mean?
So it's not I hope that doesn'tsound discouraging to people of
(34:51):
like, well, great, if she can'teven be healed, then like what
hope do I have?
But I think the difference nowis I'm aware of that and I have
that conversation in my head oflike, say what you need.
unknown (35:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
And you have a new relationship to it.
And I think I think it'sencouraging because I think
people are starting to realizethat our culture has created
this pedestalized version ofhealed.
We're like, oh, therapists orpastors or these like very
famous people who have thesevery like pretty, healthy
looking lives.
(35:25):
I think a lot of people arestarting to realize like there
is no magical way that we outheal humanity.
There is no magical way that wesay, like, oh, I'm done now,
versus like, no, you're on aconstant growing up.
Like me at 40 is hopefully gonnabe even better and more mature
than me now.
(35:46):
And like, she's still gonna havesome shit to figure out because
this is her first time being 40in the future.
And that's not a discouragingthing when you stop thinking
that somehow you'll suddenlyarrive and have it all together.
Because then when you do havethose human moments, you're
like, oh, okay, I know how tomeet myself here.
(36:07):
So I'm curious, as we talk aboutall of this, what are the ways
that we do create that secureattachment?
What are the ways that we createthat in ourselves, that we
create it with our kids?
What helps build that secureattachment?
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Yeah, so I think like the biggest thing that we
work on is self-compassion.
Like, above everything, we haveto work on being kind and
nurturing to ourselves, right?
Because when we can slow down,even if you've just gone on like
some tirade, right?
And you're like, that was sounhealed of me, right?
(36:42):
If we can slow down and be like,whoa, what happened?
And talk to ourselves in a waythat is like that ideal
nurturing parent would talk tothat child who just had the
tantrum.
If we can do that for ourselves,right, we open up so much space
because we're validating, like,well, yeah, you were triggered.
Like, you know, your toddlerjust threw applesauce all over
(37:03):
the floor.
Your other child peed the bed atthe same time, your husband's
asking, what do you need?
Like, of course you melted downin that moment.
Like, right.
If you can talk to yourself withself-compassion, we validate, we
validate that that humanexperience and we slow it down
enough to open space up for thenlike repairing if we need to,
(37:24):
and also kind of thinkingthrough like, wow, what did I
need in that moment?
Like, I needed a break.
I needed to step away and takesome breaths and ground.
Like I went from zero to 60 andI didn't do anything to pull
back.
Right.
And so we create with thecompassion, we create space for
reflection, for repair, for theinner nurturing.
(37:45):
So that's my number one is howare you talking to yourself?
Right.
Like when you make a mistake,are you critical, punishing,
just marinating in guilt?
Like, what are we doing in withour internal voice?
And if we can shift that to bemore compassionate, right?
And I always tell people like,what would you tell your child
(38:06):
in that situation?
Right?
Would you be like, you shouldhave done better, or would you
have it like, hey, that wastough.
Come here and give them a hug.
So that's my number one thing islike we have to work on
self-compassion.
Obviously, there's a ton ofdifferent things you can do in
terms of like grounding, right?
And regulating, getting yournervous system to kind of calm
down so we aren't having so muchof the like attachment behaviors
(38:30):
show up.
So even things as simple as youknow, kind of monitoring where
you're at throughout the day interms of regulation, right?
Are we getting to like on a oneto ten scale?
Like once we hit that five, weneed to go do some regulation.
Yeah, right.
For that, if you can, but like Iwant never get past the five.
SPEAKER_00 (38:48):
Like actually paying attention to you and your needs
and your regulation is so underlike it is so underrated because
we're so f and I think we dothis unintentionally and it's
just like biologically hardwiredto be paying attention and
attuning to what the kid needs.
But we don't have a villageanymore who's paying attention
(39:10):
to our needs on a daily basis.
Even if you have supportivefriends or family, the reality
is most women, you're home aloneparenting your kids.
So you have to pay attention toyourself.
You have to exist outside ofyour toddler, your kids, your
teen, your partner.
You have to be paying attentionso that you can meet your
regulation if you want any hopeat helping them with theirs.
(39:34):
Because otherwise, the realityis we'll probably accidentally
mirror them or match their mood.
I know I do this unintentionallyall the time, where like I'm
just matching their mood, andall of a sudden I'm like, wait,
I'm good.
I'm fine, but like I forgot topay attention to me.
And then all of a sudden youwalk in the room and now I'm
paying so much attention to youremotions.
(39:55):
And so I have to like pullmyself back into that.
Like, where am I?
How am I?
Where's my breath?
Where's my body?
Where's my backbone?
Let me get a drink.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Yes, yes.
Go get that drink of cold water,take those deep breaths, right?
All of that communicates to yournervous system, like, oh, we're
safe.
Yeah.
Right.
When we're in crisis and we'rerunning from tiger, we're not
stopping to drink water and takedeep breaths, right?
But we can communicate to ourbody, like this isn't urgent.
unknown (40:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
That's my like number one thing when my, like I
said, teenager feels a lot liketoddler.
I keep like when they'repanicked and on the roller
coaster, I keep being in my headand in my body, I'm like, there
is no tiger.
There is no urgency.
This is not like this is notthreat level nine.
This is like I cut the toast, Icut the crust off of the toast
(40:47):
and they're upset.
But I need my brain and my bodyneed to know that like this is
okay, even if they don't knowthat this is okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And it, I mean, again, tovalidate, like, it is hard to
get into the pattern of this,right?
It's you know, I've got threekids and it is constant, like
there is never downtime, no onenaps at the same time, like it's
just busy.
And so it is really hard to findthose moments where I can pull
away or just kind of turn inwardfor a second and check in.
(41:18):
And so, you know, just to putthat out there, like I recognize
that sounds easier than itactually is.
But once you get into thepractice of it, right, you
create that habit and it sort ofbecomes second nature to be more
aware of like where what is mystate?
Where am I at?
And also like, how is how am Icommunicating?
Yeah, how is my statecommunicating to my kids, right?
(41:40):
Because they just like you said,you'll kind of mirror their your
kids' moods, they take, theypick up on ours too, right?
They're we've got these littlemirror neurons in our head that
are designed to match otherpeople's states, right?
And so they have those too.
And so if we're running aroundall stressed and whatever, their
(42:01):
little bodies pick up on thatand they don't know how to
handle that.
And so you'll see moreoutbursts, crazy behavior, like
just wild, crying, all sorts ofstuff.
And so you're not doing yourselfany favors on that level either,
if you're not kind of checkingin and kind of noticing what am
I putting out there right now?
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Yeah.
So when we're working with,let's say our kid is showing
some signs that they might nothave secure attachment, what are
some of those things that we canstart doing that help create
that secure attachment?
You mentioned a couple of thingsalready.
I think people are gonna have alot of questions, especially
around, but like tell me what todo.
How do I parent?
What do I not do?
(42:40):
I'm curious your thoughts onlike accommodating.
So, especially like, do youfollow your kids' lead?
What are the ways that you startshifting that as a parent?
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
I think it would depend on ages, maybe.
Yeah, like, you know, if youhave a teenager and they're
really wanting some alone timeright now, I'm not gonna bust
down the door and force them tohave connection with me.
Like, you know, I will meettheir need for space, right?
But I'm gonna try to sneak inconnection time, like in ways
that maybe don't feel so cornyto them.
(43:12):
Right.
Spending quality time can begreat for working on building
attachment, right?
And we want that quality time tobe sort of focused on you taking
in your kid, right?
So you're acknowledging whatthey like to do, you're acting
interested in the things thatare important to them, right?
You're just communicating like Isee you and I appreciate you,
(43:33):
and I want to know you more.
That feels so good as a kid, andthat's pretty simple to do,
right?
It's just taking a few minutesout of your day to really
connect and just dive into yourkid's world.
So those little conversationsfor older ones can be good.
For younger kids, for babies,physical contact is really
healing, especially reallylittle babies, right?
(43:54):
Skin-to-skin contact createsthat bonding and secure
attachment, lots of eye contact,smiles, coups, right?
Just engaging in a reallypositive, loving way with our
babies is going to create thatattachment for a baby.
For toddlers, some of the samestuff, like good eye contact,
cuddles, hugs if they like that,playing with them, just
(44:18):
communicating you're important.
I see you, right?
When they melt down or have bigemotions, trying to stay as
steady as possible, right?
So we're not going to shut downtheir emotions and try to get
the tantrum over as quick aspossible.
It's really communicating like Iam steady and safe for you, even
when you're falling apart.
Like your emotions don't scareme, and I'm here for you.
(44:42):
So if we can stay really steadyourselves and sort of be that
like anchor for them in thosemoments, that's really great.
unknown (44:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
So I would say those are some just tangible things
you can start doing or startfocusing on.
Therapy, obviously, like I haveto put a plug out there for
that, because it can be supergreat just for you to be working
internally on your own stuff.
So if you're noticing patternsin your kid, start your own work
too, right?
(45:13):
Maybe you have them in playtherapy or something, but do
your own work alongside thattoo, right?
Because, you know, again, theresearch says if you're working
on yourself, chances are muchhigher that you're gonna have
that secure attachment pass onto your child.
So yeah, I think there's it'salways a good time for therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
Yeah, and well, and they need a secure adult to
attach to.
I think that, I mean, truly,back when I was a toddler
parent, that was my signal oflike, I better go figure this
shit out because I was like, shedoes not have a secure parent
right now.
Like, and don't get me wrong, Iwas a really good loving mom.
And I started witnessing signsin me and my marriage and my
(45:59):
toddler where I was going, like,this isn't gonna work.
Like, this is this is notsetting us up for success.
And I was like, I was doing thebest I knew how to do.
And that's where I went, okay, Ineed, I need help.
I need support.
I need someone to come and helpme figure out how to do this
because it was a lot.
It was a lot for my nervoussystem to have all of these
(46:19):
other people be so dysregulatedand then realizing, like, oh
shit, like I'm alsodysregulated.
Like I can't force them to doanything.
Clearly, I tried that and thatdidn't work.
So it was like, well, I guess Iguess I'll get help, I suppose.
Which was great.
It ended up being the best thingI ever did.
I'm curious, you mentioned a lotof quality time.
(46:41):
Is there an aspect of quantitythat matters in the early stages
and the toddlers and the biggerkids?
Because I think there's so manymoms.
I think of like the workingmoms, either by choice or not by
choice, by like, I have to dothis to sustain my family.
And I think they have a lot ofguilt or a lot of shame of
they're not spending enough timewith their kids.
(47:04):
I've known plenty of moms whohave the most secure attachment
to their kids in that scenario.
So I'm curious of that likequantity versus quality, because
I think that's something thatgets thrown on modern modern
moms a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Yeah.
So quality is always greaterthan quantity.
Always.
Right.
Like those five minutes of, Idon't know, shared conversation
and connection between likegoing off into your different
activities is so much, if it'shigh quality, is so much better
than you just like hanging outon your iPad all day, but you're
(47:40):
like present with your kids.
Right.
So quality is always better thanquantity.
And then we want consistency.
Right.
So it can't just be like, well,I tried once this month.
It's, you know, did you can youcome up with a routine where
every day there's a checkpointwith the kids, or you know,
maybe it's not every day, butbut there's some there's a
(48:01):
consistent, sort of predictablenature to the connection time.
So I would say consistentquality is what we want to focus
on.
It's not so much quantity.
That's so helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
This is kind of a random share, but I know there
was a season where mornings werejust the roughest.
And it was like getting the kidsout of the house was chaos.
And I started to have this.
I would I would call it momguilt, but not in the way people
normally do, where I wasstarting to say, like, this
doesn't work.
I don't like this.
(48:36):
Like, this is not how I want mymornings with my kids to look.
And part of that, it's not in mychoice.
Like, I don't get to decidewhether my kids are in a good
mood when they wake up.
I had to decide, like, what arethe things that are within my
consistent power, my authority,my influence that I can shift.
So I started shifting what Icould to make the mornings feel
(48:58):
different.
Music, mood lighting, breakfast,like the mood I was in.
And like one small little thingwas I parked my car and gave
them a hug.
Now, are they still sometimes ina bad mood?
Yes.
But like I've just decided thatlike I want to be in a good mood
with them as much as is withinmy like capacity to do.
(49:20):
And that little quality moment,it made mornings like, oh, I
actually feel like I have mykids in the morning, versus like
this stressful, awful, like,this isn't working for any of
us.
We're starting our days offterrible, and just like that
small, consistent quality time.
Yes.
(49:40):
Magnificently like transformedtruly, not just for them, but
for me.
And we still have rough days,but even those rough days, it's
got a little bit of something.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, you're creating thatanchor, right?
Of safety, of like love, ofpositivity.
And it doesn't like they canstill have their bad days.
That's totally fine.
And it's not our job to not makeour kids have bad days.
It's your job to be that safe,consistent, loving, nurturing
presence.
And that's exactly what you didin that, right?
(50:12):
And it and it's a small change,it's not even something that
took up tons of time or likecost a bunch of money.
It's a really small change thatyou're putting in consistently.
That's that touch point for themof connection.
And that's so beautiful.
And what a great example foreverybody.
Yeah, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
I'm curious for you, either in your personal or your
professional life right now,like what's an area of
attachment that just feelsreally relevant to you, or like
something new, or something likemaybe it's maybe it's a hard
new, maybe it's a good new.
I'm just curious, like what wehaven't touched on around
(50:51):
attachment that you would wantto share or talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (50:54):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think right now I just
had my third baby six monthsago.
And so we have three kids.
We've never had three kidsbefore.
And I think balancing, trying,it's not even balancing, it's
like an attempt at balancingeverybody's needs, including my
(51:14):
husband's and our marriageneeds.
I think that's maybe where I'mjust like, wow, this takes a lot
of intentional effort now, wherewe had kind of before our third
baby gotten into the flow, youknow, we had our two kids and
bedtime was like, I don't know,7:30 or 8.
And then we had a little bit oftime together.
And that's just not the caseright now.
(51:37):
And so I think that's where I'mfocusing on is feeding, feeding
the my marriage and kind of thatattachment.
Because when that's reallysturdy, then our house is a lot
more sturdy too, right?
The teamwork flows better,everybody just feels more
connected.
(51:57):
And so I think that's where I'mstruggling right now, or I guess
focusing on.
It doesn't feel like a majorstruggle, it's just kind of like
the awareness of like, oh, wehave to put effort into this
right now.
Like we have to carve out sometime where we can connect
because life is not giving it tous.
Yeah.
So not so much on my kids orwhatever, but between me and my
(52:20):
husband, I think.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:21):
Well, because the kids are so needy.
Love it, but wow.
Love it, but yeah, yeah.
And I think there's thoseseasons of when you're
navigating parenting andmarriage, and both of those are
really important relationshipsto you.
It is hard to navigate.
It is hard to like hold thetension of everybody's needs,
(52:44):
and then like, oh yes, also,like the only way I can meet
their needs is by meeting myneeds.
I'm curious with secureattachment.
Does friendship come into play?
Oh, for sure.
Or support.
Because I'm thinking, like,there's gonna be so many moms
who are like, oh, I don't, myhusband doesn't have secure
attachment to me, so I don'thave another secure attached
(53:04):
adult.
And yes, I'm attached to mykids, but our kids, especially
for me, like, yes, I have anattachment to my kids, but like
I can't get most of my needs,like my needs aren't being met
there.
Like, I have, you know, there'sa little bit of relational need
met there.
But for the most part, it'slike, where are we getting those
relational needs met when we'rein motherhood?
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Yeah.
So if you if you feel like yourrelate, your marriage or
relationship, primaryrelationship, isn't the most
secure, right?
That can create a really lonelyfeeling within motherhood,
right?
Because you're probably pouringso much into your kids, right?
So hard to make everythinghealthy and great there.
And then you're not gettingpoured into yourself by your
(53:49):
marriage or partner.
I will say first and foremost,like, go to couples counseling.
Like, do some work on that tofigure out a way where that can
be the place you get filled up,right?
Like, do some work on that.
But in the process of doing workon that, or if you don't have a
partner, you don't have anotherco-parent, create a community
(54:12):
for yourself of women orfriends, whoever it is, that can
be that for you.
My colleague Kelly Sending andI, we host the mom walk
collective here in town.
And so we we do these like momwalks for any mom with littles
to come, and we just go on awalk or listen to some speaker
(54:34):
and do some fun activities.
But it's such a great place toconnect with different moms who
are in it too.
I also have like a book club.
We meet once a month and we talkabout the book for 30 seconds
and then drink wine and eat foodand talk.
You know what I mean?
And that is just such a goodplace to feel like filled up, to
(54:55):
feel seen, validated, to feelnormal, right?
Like I will share my parentingfails or whatever, and my
girlfriends be like, me too.
And so I'm like, okay, cool.
I'm not the only one who likemade PBJ the entire week for
lunch this week, right?
Like, or whatever it is.
And so yeah, you can create asecure network for yourself if
(55:18):
you don't feel like you havethat at home or within your
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (55:21):
Yeah, and that's and I think even if you do have a
secure relationship, I know whenmy marriage was having a harder
time, I think something thathelped my marriage become
healthier is when I startedhaving secure attachment with
females.
Because all of a sudden I wasn'ttrying to look to my husband to
be that female, nurturing,feminine, motherly person when
(55:45):
like that's just that's just notthe relationship we need to
have.
Like that's that's not who heis, that's not who I need him to
be.
But I think so often in ourculture, the partner or the
co-parent is your village.
And I think it's impossible toask that of them either way.
Like on me, it's too much tolike try to be his whole village
(56:09):
too.
But when I look at bringingsecure attachment to other women
in my life, how much that vastlychanges, having that regularly
scheduled time on my calendarwhere I'm with other secure
women adults who like I canattune to my nervous system.
Can I even just like socialmedia right now is like, oh,
(56:31):
there's no secure attachmenthappening here.
So it's just like getting in aroom of women where it's like,
oh, we're okay.
It's like all of a sudden mybody is like, oh, we're we're
okay.
We really are gonna be okay.
It it changes everything.
Yeah, just being in thoseplaces.
SPEAKER_01 (56:50):
Yep.
And that's just a good point,too.
Like, you cannot rely on oneperson to fill every attachment
need you have.
Yeah.
It like in any relationship,it's not gonna be healthy to
expect one person to beeverything for you.
And so, sort of like creatingthose different places where you
get different types of needs metis so important.
(57:12):
And then also like your ownself-soothing, right?
Being able to meet some of yourown needs at times and not just
rely on somebody else is reallyimportant too.
SPEAKER_00 (57:20):
And so, kind of it just there's a bunch of
different puzzle pieces, yeah.
Yeah, but each little puzzlepiece, I don't remember when I
came up with this, but it'slike, you know, the saying of
like it's the straw that breaksthe camel's back.
It's like, well, it's alsotaking care of the straws that
make sure the camel's backdoesn't break.
Like it doesn't always have tobe this huge, massive thing.
(57:43):
It can be little thing by littlething that you honor for
yourself that you create foryour child.
Like you can do it in manageablepieces.
I I loved this conversation.
I'm curious, like, is thereanything else you'd want to add?
Any like note you'd want toleave on?
SPEAKER_01 (58:01):
I mean, just to remember that attachment is
something you can work on nomatter what.
It's never permanent, it isalways healable.
And you can start with littlesmall steps.
You don't have to bite off morethan you can chew right off the
bat.
So I just want to leave that ashope that there's never anything
(58:21):
permanent, right?
Like we we have the power towork on this at any point.
So it's never too late.
SPEAKER_00 (58:28):
I love that so much.
I think we all need to rememberthat for ourselves, for our
kids, even while we are aware oflike, because you know, they're
like, oh, you only have so muchtime.
And it's like, well, I mean,hopefully, hopefully, I have a
lifetime of being my parent, aparent to these kids.
And it'll change.
I'm starting to realize that.
(58:49):
And like, it'll still be anattachment, hopefully.
That's my point.
As I keep going too.
So, Hannah, this was sobeautiful.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (59:00):
Thank you so much.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (59:05):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Motherhood Mentor podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment, one
small tangible piece of workthat you can bring into your
life to get your hands a littledirty, to get your skin in the
(59:27):
game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
If this podcast moved you, if itinspired you, if it encouraged
you, please do me a favor andleave a review.
Send an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women.
(59:48):
And that's what we're doinghere.
So I hope you have an awesomeday.
Take really good care ofyourself, and I'll see you next
time.
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and this podcastis for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
gets that speak to health,healing, and growth in every
area of life.
This isn't just strategy, butwhat we do, it's important.
(00:22):
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding
all of our stuff in our humanityas we.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
(00:42):
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm so excited for my guesttoday.
I have Hannah Dorscher, and sheis going to talk to us about
attachment.
It's a conversation and a topicthat I think really needs to be
had.
It's something that I think alot of moms and a lot of kids
are navigating and struggling.
And so I'm just really, reallyexcited to have you.
(01:04):
Hannah, will you introduceyourself?
SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Yes, of course.
Thank you for having me.
My name is Hannah.
I'm a licensed therapist here inFort Collins, Colorado.
I also do attachment coachingfor women and moms.
I am a mom of three myself.
I've got a four-year-old boy, athree-year-old boy, and a
six-month-old baby girl.
And yeah, I'm married to my bestfriend.
(01:29):
We love all the typical Coloradostuff.
And yeah, basically what I dowith therapy is help moms and
women heal their attachmentwounds.
And I think throughout probablythe course of this podcast, I'll
use the term attachment a ton.
And so maybe we can start withsort of talking through just the
(01:52):
basics of what I even mean whenI'm saying attachment and what
different attachment styles are.
And then we can talk a littlebit about how different things
that can affect attachment, likebirth trauma, if that's all
right.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's jump into like for peoplewho are new, what is attachment
and why does it so why does itmatter so much in motherhood for
us as mothers and then also forour kids?
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah.
So attachment is essentially thequality of the bond that a mom
or caregiver for the for thispodcast, I'll just say mom, but
um, it can be caregivers ingeneral.
Um, but it's the quality of thebond that the caregiver makes
with the child.
So that is what's going to laythe groundwork for your
(02:40):
attachment style.
And so there's a there's twodifferent categories of
attachment (02:45):
there's secure attachment and insecure
attachment.
Secure attachment is what we'reall striving for.
It's what we all want, it's whatwe want our kids to have.
And basically the gist of asecure attachment style is this
baby's mom is present, they areemotionally available, they are
(03:06):
responsive to the baby's needsand just like in tune with what
the baby needs, right?
It's kind of like when you're amom and you get that sense of,
oh, that cry means baby'shungry, or oh, that cry means
baby is super tired, right?
And you just sort of create thislike in-syncness with a baby.
When a baby experiences that,basically what they're learning
(03:29):
is I can trust other people tomeet my needs.
I can use my voice and my needswill get met, and I'm safe.
And when we look at what thatdoes to relationships like long
term, right?
This really lays the groundworkfor the types of relationships
that they're gonna seek in theirlife too, in terms of like
(03:50):
friendships, romantic partners,all of that kind of stuff.
So it's it's crazy, but we'redoing so much groundwork as
moms, like right off the batwith our kids in terms of
attachment.
And a secure attachment on themom's end with the baby is gonna
feel like it's it's gonna feelagain like you're just in sync
(04:10):
with your baby.
And that that creates moreconfidence as a mom, right?
Like when you feel like I knowmy baby and I can, I'm
comfortable and confident inmeeting their needs, you feel
good, right?
And that's that sense of like, Ifeel like I'm in sync and under
I understand my baby strengthensthat bond even more and
perpetuates even more of thosebehaviors that create a secure
(04:34):
attachment.
So that's secure.
And then we have insecureattachment, and there's a couple
different categories of aninsecure attachment.
So they're just the broaddefinition of insecure
attachment.
This is sort of this theopposite sense from secure.
So this might look like sort offeeling not safe, not heard, not
(04:57):
able to trust other people.
And this really happens when momor caregiver can't be present
with the baby.
Maybe they're really overwhelmedwith other stuff going on there
in their life, or you know, likewith a birth trauma, you you
come out of that and you'redealing with so much of your own
(05:18):
trauma, it's hard to be totallyemotionally available for that,
for your baby, right?
And so maybe sometimes you'reyou're present and available,
and then other times you're shutoff and withdrawn or cold,
right?
Or maybe you're so overwhelmedthat you're getting angry or
super anxious, right?
The baby's experience of this isgonna feel really inconsistent
(05:40):
for them.
And so they're not over timecreating enough of a consistent
experience to build that trustwith you.
And so we tend to see threedifferent types of an insecure
attachment.
There's avoidant.
So this type of attachment lookslike a child or a person who
(06:05):
avoids relying on anotherperson, right?
So they might feel like it'sjust easier or safer to kind of
go inward and rely onthemselves.
So being vulnerable with anotherperson is gonna be really hard.
They might stonewall, ghost, allof those kinds of things in
later life.
As a kid, it might look likeover-independence.
Like they're they don't need torely on mom, or when you walk in
(06:28):
the room, they don't reallyacknowledge you, they just keep
doing their own little thing,right?
They've sort of learned like Idon't, it's not safe to rely on
parents for comfort.
So I'm just gonna ignore my needfor that.
So that's avoidant.
Then there's also anxiousattachment.
This looks like in a child, itcan look like a child who acts
(06:49):
out a lot to get comfort orcontact for mom or caregivers.
It can look like a baby who'sreally easily dysregulated,
right?
So maybe cries a lot.
Idea, what they're doing istrying to use behaviors that are
gonna get like draw in comfortor contact.
(07:10):
But they don't develop thatsense of I can soothe myself and
rely on my mom when I need to.
So it's just kind of this, Ineed somebody to help me panic.
In later life, it's gonna looklike big trust issues, like
difficulty trusting a partner.
I guess that's at the core ofall of them.
But this one's gonna be veryobvious that there's trust
(07:31):
issues.
It's a very kind of externalattachment style.
You'll you'll see it.
Um, it can look like protestbehavior.
So that might be starting afight because you have a need,
but you can't express what youwant, right?
Expecting your partner to mindread and having a really big
reaction if they miss the mark.
So that's sort of the anxiousattachment style.
(07:51):
And then there's disorganized isthe last one.
And that's this like tug of war,sort of between both styles,
right?
So you'll see a person or achild kind of go back and forth
between withdrawing and tryingto kind of separate from people
and just protect themselves ontheir own, that independence.
(08:12):
And then a big push towardslike, wait, come back and help
me.
And so that one can be really,really tricky for relationships
for that child later on in lifebecause it is so chaotic and
partners tend to have a hardtime understanding what's going
on.
And it's very hot and cold, backand forth.
And so those are that's kind ofthe big overall maybe umbrella
(08:35):
picture of attachment.
SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Yeah, let's pause there because I'm sure if
especially if people are new toattachment, they're probably
hearing this and like that's alot.
They're probably thinking ofmaybe themselves now, themselves
in their 20s.
I know I was like hearing alittle bit of like, ooh, I can
see where I had that.
Uh-huh.
I see that one.
What's my husband's?
(08:57):
Okay.
Um, what was going on with mybabies and me and early
motherhood?
You know, I'm so far out of thatseason.
But if we just pause there for aminute and consider like, what's
coming up for you?
What are you, what are youhearing?
How is it feeling?
And I'm curious when we'retalking about attachment, tell
(09:18):
us more about like, is it set instone?
Because I think so many womenare going to hear that and have
that, like, ah shit.
Oh no.
Or like, oh, I know where myparents effed up, or where have
I gone wrong if they havetoddlers or teenagers, or maybe
even they're struggling in theirromantic life right now, going
like, oh wow, I definitely havea rough attachment style.
(09:40):
Where does repair come in?
Can this change?
Tell us more about that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:44):
Yeah.
So the beautiful thing aboutattachment is that it is not set
in stone, right?
So we may have, you know,thinking about myself as an
adult, like I was very anxiouslyattached throughout my, I mean,
really forever, but like itshowed up in dating.
That is not the case anymore forme.
(10:06):
I feel very secure.
And so what's so cool aboutattachment is that at any point,
if you want to start working onthat, you can totally change
your attachment style.
In fact, there's actually a termfor it.
It's called earned secureattachment.
So that's what research wouldcall like working towards a
secure attachment.
(10:27):
And then what's really, reallycool too is if you have kids and
you're noticing or kind ofreflecting on your own like
experience with your kids andyour relationship, and you're
thinking, like, ooh, maybe thereis some like attachment wounds
there or some like misses.
Number one, you do not have tobe perfect in order to create a
secure attachment in your kids.
(10:48):
In fact, what's crazy isresearch actually suggests you
only have to get it right about30% of the time.
Maybe I'm giving myself too muchcredit, but like I think I'd
probably do better than that.
For sure.
Like, I think, I don't know.
But like research says if you'rehitting it about 30% of the
time, and then maybe the other30% is you like trying to figure
it out, and then the other 30%is making repairs, right?
(11:14):
That you, your child is likelyto develop a secure attachment.
And so that should bring a lotof confidence and like calm to
moms, right?
Like you do not have to beperfect.
And the other cool thing aboutit is repair is such a big part
of building trust in arelationship and creating secure
attachment.
(11:34):
So anytime you you mess up, it'san opportunity for repair,
right?
Which actually then strengthensyour relationship and thus the
attachment between you and yourchild.
So I would look at, right, likeany any moment where you're
like, I did not handle that wellwith my toddler or my teenager,
(11:56):
go back and repair.
Like you get to have thatconversation with them of like,
hey, sorry, I raised my voicewith you, or I don't know,
snapped at you.
I was having a rough day, Ishould have handled that better.
That that kind of closes thatloop for that child, right?
Of like, okay, mom blew up atme.
That felt really icky, but momcame back and talked to me and
(12:19):
took accountability for it.
So now I know it wasn't my faultand I'm not bad, and that I can
trust mom, right?
She took accountability, I cantrust her.
So that strengthens the bond,which is so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
How important is that part to secure attachment?
Because what I'm hearing yousaying is, you know, I'm
actually thinking through thelens of a lot of the mothers
that I work with, they'reactually doing a lot of repair
work right now with theirmothers.
And when I say they're doingrepair work with their mothers,
it's actually not their mothersdoing repair work with them.
(12:51):
There's no repair work withtheir mothers because their
mothers don't acknowledge theruptures.
There's a lot of codependency, alot of like emotionally immature
mothers.
There's a lot of mothers wholike they are a vortex of need.
And I'm just curious, like, howimportant is that for us as
mothers with our kids to beacknowledging the ruptures when
(13:11):
they do happen?
Is that like a big part ofattachment?
Is not just the repair part,because the repair part has to
come after like anacknowledgement of the rupture,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
So repair is huge, right?
So, like again, that that the30% chunks, right?
30% is like making repairs.
So we do have to do that activework in order to repair with or
in order to strengthen ourchild's attachment.
Now, when we're looking at adultwomen trying to repair their
(13:44):
attachment because of thingsthat happened in their childhood
with their parents, we're notalways gonna get that repair
from our mom, right?
And that that's kind of whatyou're saying.
And so we have to work onhealing without that.
And there's totally a way to dothat.
So, what we do in situationslike that, I mean, we work on
(14:05):
accepting.
We're not maybe gonna get theparent that we deserved or
wanted or needed, right?
And not to say that these momsor parents are terrible, but
sometimes there's a mismatch inattachment needs, right?
So a great mom might just be alittle less emotionally in tune
than her very emotional child,right?
(14:28):
And so it creates over time thislike attachment rupture.
It's not that it's a terriblemom, but we do have to work on
accepting who our parentactually is, right?
And kind of coming to terms withthat and grieving what we wanted
and needed and didn't get.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
And if mom is you not going to take
accountability, not willing tosee the things that she did that
cause pain and kind of own up tothat and repair, then that's
where we spend more time is howdo I come to terms with the fact
that I'm not gonna get that, butI deserved it?
Right.
And leaning into theself-compassion that you can
feel for yourself and then sortof offering yourself a
(15:11):
corrective healing response,right?
So you sort of get to almostlike split off into parts,
right?
So you've got your nurturingcaretaker self and your hurt
self.
Maybe it's your wounded child,right?
And so you can actuallyvisualize giving the type of
nurturing you needed and didn'tget to that part of yourself
(15:32):
that's still hurt.
And that can be an amazingexperience towards healing,
right?
So we can't always base ourhealing and our growth and our
okayness on what other peopleare willing to do.
Sometimes we have to just kindof take charge and figure out a
way to provide that to ourselvesin the event that they can't or
(15:55):
won't.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
But when we've got kids in the home, right, they're
little and they do depend on us,it is more our job at that
point, right?
Because they, you know, whenthey're really little, all they
have is us as that security andthat safety.
And so then it is more of ourjob to be that external helper
(16:17):
for them with attachment.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
I'm really, I'm glad we slowed it down for that
because I do think that there'sso many different aspects to
attachment that are going tocome up for people when they're
learning this concept.
There's all of these differentparts and pieces of them, of
their own stuff and then liketheir kids, and then how their
stuff might be impacting theirkids' stuff.
(16:40):
So when it comes to women, howimportant is their attachment
style when it comes toinfluencing and, you know,
trying to think of the word,building their kids' attachment
style or influencing maybe?
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah.
So I think there's two differentways to look at that.
There's the woman who or the momwho is completely unaware of her
attachment style and patternsand all of that and hurts.
And then there's the mom who isaware of what's going on, but is
still working on healing andstill kind of working through
(17:16):
this like, how do I, how do Iheal this so that I am healthy
for my kids, right?
And so if we're looking at thefirst person who's completely
unaware, that is gonna have aneffect on your kids.
It just is, right?
Because you, depending on whatyour attachment style is or your
(17:36):
attachment patterns, like what'sprobably gonna happen is you're
not gonna be totally emotionallyavailable or able to be
vulnerable with your kids.
And they will pick up on that,right?
It requires vulnerability torepair, right?
It is hard to say, hey, I'msorry, I messed up.
And if you aren't able to bevulnerable because your
(17:58):
attachment patterns say it's notsafe to do so, right?
Then you're not going toprobably engage in that piece of
building attachment with yourkids when you mess up, and we
are all gonna mess up, likethat's a guarantee, right?
And so we have a lot of thesemaybe attachment hurts with no
repair that start building upover time with our kids.
And then they're gonna react tothat and probably create their
(18:21):
own attachment style, right?
And again, even if that's thecase, right?
Even if you are looking atyourself and you've got
teenagers now and you're like,oh my gosh, I was totally like
so avoidant when they were kids.
I just like, oh my gosh, it'sokay because you can still work
on that now, right?
(18:42):
You can change the pattern now,and that will pay off for your
teenage kids hugely.
So that's kind of the first, thefirst maybe scenario.
The second scenario is when aagain, that mom is aware of some
of her patterns, but working onthem, she's not perfect, but
trying.
Research actually shows that ifa mom is aware of and working on
(19:05):
healing, she is more likely tohave kids with a more secure
attachment.
So simply being aware of andworking on it and being able to
acknowledge, like, there wasthat again, and then going
through that repair cycle,simply doing that is enough to
get your kids on that secureattachment trajectory and be
(19:27):
moving yourself obviouslytowards secure too.
SPEAKER_00 (19:29):
And that is, I think that's so important for women to
hear because no, nobody saysthey're trying to be the perfect
mom.
Like, I've never had a woman inmy entire timeline of helping
women put on a form like, I needto be the perfect mom.
I'm trying to be the perfectmom.
But every single one of them isso hard on themselves.
Like these moms who are sointentional and they're trying
(19:52):
so damn hard.
Like they are so intentional,they're so aware, they're doing
so much healing work onthemselves and for their kids,
and they're advocating andthey're repairing and they're
like trying to figure out all oftheir stuff so they don't pass
it on to their kids.
And those moms are still like,I'm not doing enough, I'm not
doing good enough.
It's hurting, like they'reterrified what they're doing to
(20:14):
their kids.
And I think we have this likefear, anxiety for a lot of
mothers who are trying, we're soaware of like all the things
that we could do wrong that Ithink sometimes it creates that
anxiousness.
And I'm curious that that kindof leads me into I'm curious.
I'm like looking at my own earlymotherhood, and some of my
(20:37):
qualities were very likecodependent with my daughter.
And I was almost overlyattached, and I could see how
like that actually was creatingmore of an anxious attachment,
not only for her, but for me.
And I'm curious if you can speakto that a little bit because I
do think there's a lot of womenin this generation who were very
(20:57):
were wanting to like gentle orattachment parent.
And I think in some ways, someof us have gone too far.
And I'm like speaking, like, Iwent so far in toddlerhood where
like I be, I didn't have enoughself and I didn't have a
backbone.
And I think in a lot of ways, Iwas not creating a secure
attachment because I was almostlike too overly attuned to her.
(21:21):
I'm curious if there's a lens ofthat in attachment.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
For sure.
So that sounds a lot likeanxious, like you named it,
anxious attachment, right?
Where you are just like so intune with another person,
looking for any signs of likediscomfort or threat or danger
to the relationship, likeanything, right?
That you'll actually behyper-vigilant to it and maybe
even sort of fabricate, not thatyou're making stuff up, but
(21:49):
right, like read a sign assomething negative when it may
not have been.
Right.
And so that creates so muchanxiety, and your child will
pick up on that, right?
Because mom is not calm.
And if mom isn't calm andregulated, then something must
not be safe.
SPEAKER_02 (22:08):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
Because we are with our kids, like we get to show
them like, I got you, I'm safe.
And if I'm if I'm feeling safe,then you can rest assured that
you're safe.
Right.
And so we want to be that calm,grounded, like attuned to the
right level parent, but it's soeasy, it's so easy to swing into
(22:31):
anxiety, right?
Because of course we all want todo like the best job ever.
Right.
We all want to do so much tolike create these healthy kids
with an awesome childhood.
And so we have to sort of likebe realistic too, right?
About like we're not gonna beperfect, right?
(22:52):
And we can't prevent all thingsfrom happening.
Like sometimes a child goingthrough like a little hardship
can be a good thing, right?
And creating resilience andstrength and coping strategies
on their own for how to dealwith things.
And so we don't want to bubblewrap our kids, right?
And so that really then the workis on you, right?
To step back and be like, oh mygosh, I am having so much
(23:15):
anxiety right now that I'm notlike on top of my kid right now
with this situation.
But I'm gonna deep breathe andtake a back seat right now and
just let them explore a littlebit, right?
And work through your ownanxiety instead of expecting
like closeness with them to fixthat for you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:33):
Right.
They become your soother ratherthan you learning to soothe
yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
Yeah, or their emotions are constantly
triggering you.
And I'm curious when most peoplecome to you for attachment, is
it after birth trauma?
Is it in toddler season?
I'm just so curious because Ifeel like the majority of moms
find me and my work in toddlerseason.
Cause that's where all of asudden they go, Oh, this is
like, that's when their kidstarts triggering them.
(24:00):
That's when like they starthaving some like of that anxious
attachment.
That's when they start havingthis like, oh, why am I not this
cool, calm, collected personthat I really thought I was?
And you are, you are this badassperson.
And now all of a sudden thistoddler is ruining your day.
And you're like, oh shit, theyhave too much power over me.
Or I look at myself and my likeI'm going into that teen
(24:22):
parenting, and it's very similarto that toddler parenting where
all of a sudden I'm going, oh,I've got some deeper shit I'm
gonna have to figure out becausethis kid needs me to have such a
deep center of gravity so thatI'm not over being overly
anxious and too attached or likepulling myself back.
Like it's it's taking a lot ofintentional action again as a
(24:44):
parent.
And so I'm curious, like, wheredo women find you?
Is there like a commonality of aseason where this comes up?
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
So I see women like across the entire lifespan for
this.
Yeah, I have I have young womenwho are dating and are like, I
keep dating unavailable people.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
That they're finding you like early on in life
because I'm like, oh my gosh,can we please find the like
teens and 20s women and likegive them this before
motherhood, please and thankyou?
Like, how many like really needthis?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Yeah, so I I love my like college students who are
like, I need to do somethingdifferent.
This isn't working.
Um that's for them for real.
Yeah.
I mean, think about yes, howmuch nicer that makes everything
else if we kind of heal ourattachment stuff before going
into marriage and um, but then Ihave a lot of people also in
like early marriage wherethey're like, Oh my gosh, like
(25:43):
it just got real and I can'tlike break up with this person,
right?
Like it's a little more likeserious now, and so I need to
figure out these patterns.
I used to work a lot withcouples, I don't so much
anymore, but attachment shows upin every couple session I've
ever had.
So and then I have because I doEMDR, which is a trauma therapy,
(26:04):
I have quite a few people whocome for birth trauma.
And with that, I think what isso cool is we we sort of get to
work on healing, healing beforeit affects the bond.
Because attach uh birth traumaitself can affect attachment,
(26:25):
right?
Even if you start from a secureplace when you have a trauma
like that, it can affect yourability to bond with this baby
who's you know has so manyneeds, you know, newborn stage,
it's it's intense.
And so if you're not totallyable to be as available as
possible, despite the sleep andthe physical healing and all of
that kind of stuff, right?
(26:46):
Then we have even more issueswith bonding.
So I have quite a few that comefor that.
And then I would say I see anincrease with toddlerhood for
the same reasons.
It's like, you know, whenthey're a baby, you sort of feel
like I'm such a good mom, likeit's so I'm doing everything
right, it's so great.
And then when toddlerhood hits,it's like, oh my gosh, like
these tantrums and like I can't,I have a lot of dysregulation or
(27:10):
overstimulation, like, oh mygosh, I can't regulate.
Um, so I have a lot of people atthat time, and then I I think I
shared with you before, but Iwill see people into their like
senior years working onattachment stuff.
So it's really something thatspans the life cycle and will
get triggered with differentevents.
So it's not uncommon if you havelike attachment stuff for it to
(27:33):
peak out when you're dating, andthen maybe you do some work and
then marriage will flare it up,and then having kids will flare
it up, having kids leave thehouse will flare it up, like
different developmental stagesfor your kids.
Also, if you have someattachment trauma at certain
ages, sometimes when your kidsreach those ages, it can be
really triggering for you.
(27:53):
You know, so for instance, a lotof parents maybe would have used
like cry it out or spankings orsomething back in the day.
And then when your kids are thatage, that maybe that was
happening for you.
It can bring up a lot ofdysregulation for you as you're
trying to parent this child in adifferent way.
So yeah, it's I wouldn't say Ihave one population more than
(28:16):
the other, but there'sdefinitely a pattern on kind of
what causes people to come in.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Even just hearing those patterns, I think it gives
so much permission because, youknow, I I've come to different
seasons in my motherhood, and II remember, I think it was about
the third cycle, the third cycleof I would hit this season and
I'd all of a sudden be like, whyis this so hard?
Because there's been seasonswhere it feels like it's hard
(28:42):
because my kid is in a newseason and I have to like switch
my parenting tactics, where likeI swear, like within the span of
a week, all of a sudden you'relike, none of my old parenting
tools are working.
Why isn't this working?
What happened?
Like the way that I'm talking toyou, the way that we're
disciplining, the way that we'redoing boundaries, like all of a
sudden it like doesn't work.
There's that kind of parentinghard.
(29:03):
But there's also been theseseasons of parenting where as
I'm parenting my kids, Irealize, oh, it's triggering
something in me.
It's triggering a wounding or aresponse, or there's some pretty
big timelines for me where likeall of a sudden it's like it
hits me in my body and in myemotions before I ever
cognitively go, oh shit, thatwas like a really hard year for
(29:27):
me.
And it's bringing my stuff up.
And something you were talkingabout earlier, especially when
you're talking about like thatpostpartum period, I think a lot
of women are afraid of therapyor trauma healing or EMDR or
coaching or whatever it might bebecause they're so terrified
it's gonna make it harder.
(29:48):
Like, I think that's a bigreason why women don't go.
They're like, it's I it'salready too hard.
I'm already overwhelmed.
But something you said earlier,I'm like, no, no, no, this makes
it easier.
This helps you hold the hard.
The hard is already there.
You're already experiencing it.
And I'd want to give womenpermission that it's like
there's so many powerfulpractitioners who know how to
(30:12):
help you do things in a sequencewhere like you're not digging
stuff up when you don't have thecapacity.
You're just bringing in support.
And like when you're talkingabout healing these things and
helping these things as early aspossible, it's like this is only
going to make it easier for you,not harder.
And there is some discomfortthat comes with it.
(30:33):
There's, but it sounds like itwould make it so much easier,
especially if we were more awareof this in those earlier seasons
of motherhood.
SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Yeah, for sure.
unknown (30:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
And I, you know, I won't lie, like dealing working
through trauma, whether it'sbirth trauma, attachment trauma,
you know, whatever, it isdifficult.
Yeah.
Right.
It is not fun to unpack that.
It's easier or feels easiermaybe in the moment to just push
it away and ignore it the bestyou can.
But it will find you again,right?
(31:07):
Not to sound creepy, but likewhat you don't heal will show up
again in some way.
And so it absolutely does makeit easier in the long run if we
sort of tackle that head on,right?
That's not to say you walk intoyour first therapy session and
we're just like diving into liketraumatic memories and
(31:28):
processing and stuff, right?
There's a there's a process ofbuilding rapport with a
therapist or a coach orwhatever.
There's a process of making sureyou feel safe, right?
Like in the relationship with meor whoever you're working with.
And there's the whole processtoo of giving you the tools to
safely unpack and safelyprocess, right?
(31:50):
So a good therapist is going tohave their finger on that pulse
the whole time, right?
We're never trying to push youpast your like window of
tolerance.
It's working within that togently expand it, is what we're
doing.
So yeah, it is scary though.
I just want to validate that.
Like it's it's hard to do.
And it's hard to bring stuff uptoo, like difficult things from
(32:13):
childhood, especially whenyou're an adult now, right?
It's kind of like, I don't wantto think about all that stuff
and have to sift through it, butit's worth it.
And and like I said, theresearch shows that even just
working on it and being aware ofit helps your kids.
SPEAKER_02 (32:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Right.
So you don't have to like put atimeline on, oh, I need to be
healed before they're likeconsciously aware.
Like you just be working on itand just being aware, that's
enough.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah.
Well, and even as you weresaying that, it's like I can't,
I there's been so many times inmy life continuously, and you
know, I literally do this forwork.
And me, myself, in my personallife, I'll come back to
something and I'm like, thisagain or this again, but from a
new angle.
And it's like, wait, I've donethis.
Like, I have that response in meso many times where I'm like,
(33:02):
ugh, I've done this, I've talkedabout this, I've healed it, I've
worked on it.
And and then it'll come back.
But like when it does come back,it's like, okay, but I have more
resource now.
I have more maturity now.
I have a new vision now.
I have a new lease on life, likeI have new tools.
It's not the same.
I'm not spiraling backwards, butlike I get it.
(33:24):
I get that feeling of like, Idon't want to talk about this
anymore.
I just want to be better.
And I think that's why a lot ofpeople are drawn to like the
mental cognitive process,because like then we just get to
be logical adults and pretendlike we know all of our shit and
have it all together.
But I think so many of us, wehave those younger parts show
(33:45):
up, especially when we're notexpecting it or we think we're
so sophisticated and healed.
And then you have that stuffcome up and it's like, ugh, this
again.
I don't want to do this.
And it's like, okay, but if wedo this, we get to take care of
it when it's not when it's likeold and sticky and has woven its
way in more complex and honestlyreally hard ways to pull apart.
SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's, I mean, I'm atherapist and I specialize in
this, and I still will be likethe most immature person with my
husband sometimes.
Like it's embarrassing, and Idon't want my clients to know
about this, but like, like ifI'm being honest, there are
still times when like I havethis internal battle in my head
of like, Hannah, just say whatyou need.
(34:29):
Like, stomping around is notgonna get you a hug.
So say you need a hug, you knowwhat I mean?
And I have this little warinside my head of like my little
attachment child is so activatedright now.
And I'm like, this is what I dofor a living, you know what I
mean?
So it's not I hope that doesn'tsound discouraging to people of
(34:51):
like, well, great, if she can'teven be healed, then like what
hope do I have?
But I think the difference nowis I'm aware of that and I have
that conversation in my head oflike, say what you need.
unknown (35:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:05):
And you have a new relationship to it.
And I think I think it'sencouraging because I think
people are starting to realizethat our culture has created
this pedestalized version ofhealed.
We're like, oh, therapists orpastors or these like very
famous people who have thesevery like pretty, healthy
looking lives.
(35:25):
I think a lot of people arestarting to realize like there
is no magical way that we outheal humanity.
There is no magical way that wesay, like, oh, I'm done now,
versus like, no, you're on aconstant growing up.
Like me at 40 is hopefully gonnabe even better and more mature
than me now.
(35:46):
And like, she's still gonna havesome shit to figure out because
this is her first time being 40in the future.
And that's not a discouragingthing when you stop thinking
that somehow you'll suddenlyarrive and have it all together.
Because then when you do havethose human moments, you're
like, oh, okay, I know how tomeet myself here.
(36:07):
So I'm curious, as we talk aboutall of this, what are the ways
that we do create that secureattachment?
What are the ways that we createthat in ourselves, that we
create it with our kids?
What helps build that secureattachment?
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Yeah, so I think like the biggest thing that we
work on is self-compassion.
Like, above everything, we haveto work on being kind and
nurturing to ourselves, right?
Because when we can slow down,even if you've just gone on like
some tirade, right?
And you're like, that was sounhealed of me, right?
(36:42):
If we can slow down and be like,whoa, what happened?
And talk to ourselves in a waythat is like that ideal
nurturing parent would talk tothat child who just had the
tantrum.
If we can do that for ourselves,right, we open up so much space
because we're validating, like,well, yeah, you were triggered.
Like, you know, your toddlerjust threw applesauce all over
(37:03):
the floor.
Your other child peed the bed atthe same time, your husband's
asking, what do you need?
Like, of course you melted downin that moment.
Like, right.
If you can talk to yourself withself-compassion, we validate, we
validate that that humanexperience and we slow it down
enough to open space up for thenlike repairing if we need to,
(37:24):
and also kind of thinkingthrough like, wow, what did I
need in that moment?
Like, I needed a break.
I needed to step away and takesome breaths and ground.
Like I went from zero to 60 andI didn't do anything to pull
back.
Right.
And so we create with thecompassion, we create space for
reflection, for repair, for theinner nurturing.
(37:45):
So that's my number one is howare you talking to yourself?
Right.
Like when you make a mistake,are you critical, punishing,
just marinating in guilt?
Like, what are we doing in withour internal voice?
And if we can shift that to bemore compassionate, right?
And I always tell people like,what would you tell your child
(38:06):
in that situation?
Right?
Would you be like, you shouldhave done better, or would you
have it like, hey, that wastough.
Come here and give them a hug.
So that's my number one thing islike we have to work on
self-compassion.
Obviously, there's a ton ofdifferent things you can do in
terms of like grounding, right?
And regulating, getting yournervous system to kind of calm
down so we aren't having so muchof the like attachment behaviors
(38:30):
show up.
So even things as simple as youknow, kind of monitoring where
you're at throughout the day interms of regulation, right?
Are we getting to like on a oneto ten scale?
Like once we hit that five, weneed to go do some regulation.
Yeah, right.
For that, if you can, but like Iwant never get past the five.
SPEAKER_00 (38:48):
Like actually paying attention to you and your needs
and your regulation is so underlike it is so underrated because
we're so f and I think we dothis unintentionally and it's
just like biologically hardwiredto be paying attention and
attuning to what the kid needs.
But we don't have a villageanymore who's paying attention
(39:10):
to our needs on a daily basis.
Even if you have supportivefriends or family, the reality
is most women, you're home aloneparenting your kids.
So you have to pay attention toyourself.
You have to exist outside ofyour toddler, your kids, your
teen, your partner.
You have to be paying attentionso that you can meet your
regulation if you want any hopeat helping them with theirs.
(39:34):
Because otherwise, the realityis we'll probably accidentally
mirror them or match their mood.
I know I do this unintentionallyall the time, where like I'm
just matching their mood, andall of a sudden I'm like, wait,
I'm good.
I'm fine, but like I forgot topay attention to me.
And then all of a sudden youwalk in the room and now I'm
paying so much attention to youremotions.
(39:55):
And so I have to like pullmyself back into that.
Like, where am I?
How am I?
Where's my breath?
Where's my body?
Where's my backbone?
Let me get a drink.
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
Yes, yes.
Go get that drink of cold water,take those deep breaths, right?
All of that communicates to yournervous system, like, oh, we're
safe.
Yeah.
Right.
When we're in crisis and we'rerunning from tiger, we're not
stopping to drink water and takedeep breaths, right?
But we can communicate to ourbody, like this isn't urgent.
unknown (40:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
That's my like number one thing when my, like I
said, teenager feels a lot liketoddler.
I keep like when they'repanicked and on the roller
coaster, I keep being in my headand in my body, I'm like, there
is no tiger.
There is no urgency.
This is not like this is notthreat level nine.
This is like I cut the toast, Icut the crust off of the toast
(40:47):
and they're upset.
But I need my brain and my bodyneed to know that like this is
okay, even if they don't knowthat this is okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
Yeah, yeah.
And it, I mean, again, tovalidate, like, it is hard to
get into the pattern of this,right?
It's you know, I've got threekids and it is constant, like
there is never downtime, no onenaps at the same time, like it's
just busy.
And so it is really hard to findthose moments where I can pull
away or just kind of turn inwardfor a second and check in.
(41:18):
And so, you know, just to putthat out there, like I recognize
that sounds easier than itactually is.
But once you get into thepractice of it, right, you
create that habit and it sort ofbecomes second nature to be more
aware of like where what is mystate?
Where am I at?
And also like, how is how am Icommunicating?
Yeah, how is my statecommunicating to my kids, right?
(41:40):
Because they just like you said,you'll kind of mirror their your
kids' moods, they take, theypick up on ours too, right?
They're we've got these littlemirror neurons in our head that
are designed to match otherpeople's states, right?
And so they have those too.
And so if we're running aroundall stressed and whatever, their
(42:01):
little bodies pick up on thatand they don't know how to
handle that.
And so you'll see moreoutbursts, crazy behavior, like
just wild, crying, all sorts ofstuff.
And so you're not doing yourselfany favors on that level either,
if you're not kind of checkingin and kind of noticing what am
I putting out there right now?
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Yeah.
So when we're working with,let's say our kid is showing
some signs that they might nothave secure attachment, what are
some of those things that we canstart doing that help create
that secure attachment?
You mentioned a couple of thingsalready.
I think people are gonna have alot of questions, especially
around, but like tell me what todo.
How do I parent?
What do I not do?
(42:40):
I'm curious your thoughts onlike accommodating.
So, especially like, do youfollow your kids' lead?
What are the ways that you startshifting that as a parent?
SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
I think it would depend on ages, maybe.
Yeah, like, you know, if youhave a teenager and they're
really wanting some alone timeright now, I'm not gonna bust
down the door and force them tohave connection with me.
Like, you know, I will meettheir need for space, right?
But I'm gonna try to sneak inconnection time, like in ways
that maybe don't feel so cornyto them.
(43:12):
Right.
Spending quality time can begreat for working on building
attachment, right?
And we want that quality time tobe sort of focused on you taking
in your kid, right?
So you're acknowledging whatthey like to do, you're acting
interested in the things thatare important to them, right?
You're just communicating like Isee you and I appreciate you,
(43:33):
and I want to know you more.
That feels so good as a kid, andthat's pretty simple to do,
right?
It's just taking a few minutesout of your day to really
connect and just dive into yourkid's world.
So those little conversationsfor older ones can be good.
For younger kids, for babies,physical contact is really
healing, especially reallylittle babies, right?
(43:54):
Skin-to-skin contact createsthat bonding and secure
attachment, lots of eye contact,smiles, coups, right?
Just engaging in a reallypositive, loving way with our
babies is going to create thatattachment for a baby.
For toddlers, some of the samestuff, like good eye contact,
cuddles, hugs if they like that,playing with them, just
(44:18):
communicating you're important.
I see you, right?
When they melt down or have bigemotions, trying to stay as
steady as possible, right?
So we're not going to shut downtheir emotions and try to get
the tantrum over as quick aspossible.
It's really communicating like Iam steady and safe for you, even
when you're falling apart.
Like your emotions don't scareme, and I'm here for you.
(44:42):
So if we can stay really steadyourselves and sort of be that
like anchor for them in thosemoments, that's really great.
unknown (44:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
So I would say those are some just tangible things
you can start doing or startfocusing on.
Therapy, obviously, like I haveto put a plug out there for
that, because it can be supergreat just for you to be working
internally on your own stuff.
So if you're noticing patternsin your kid, start your own work
too, right?
(45:13):
Maybe you have them in playtherapy or something, but do
your own work alongside thattoo, right?
Because, you know, again, theresearch says if you're working
on yourself, chances are muchhigher that you're gonna have
that secure attachment pass onto your child.
So yeah, I think there's it'salways a good time for therapy.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
Yeah, and well, and they need a secure adult to
attach to.
I think that, I mean, truly,back when I was a toddler
parent, that was my signal oflike, I better go figure this
shit out because I was like, shedoes not have a secure parent
right now.
Like, and don't get me wrong, Iwas a really good loving mom.
And I started witnessing signsin me and my marriage and my
(45:59):
toddler where I was going, like,this isn't gonna work.
Like, this is this is notsetting us up for success.
And I was like, I was doing thebest I knew how to do.
And that's where I went, okay, Ineed, I need help.
I need support.
I need someone to come and helpme figure out how to do this
because it was a lot.
It was a lot for my nervoussystem to have all of these
(46:19):
other people be so dysregulatedand then realizing, like, oh
shit, like I'm alsodysregulated.
Like I can't force them to doanything.
Clearly, I tried that and thatdidn't work.
So it was like, well, I guess Iguess I'll get help, I suppose.
Which was great.
It ended up being the best thingI ever did.
I'm curious, you mentioned a lotof quality time.
(46:41):
Is there an aspect of quantitythat matters in the early stages
and the toddlers and the biggerkids?
Because I think there's so manymoms.
I think of like the workingmoms, either by choice or not by
choice, by like, I have to dothis to sustain my family.
And I think they have a lot ofguilt or a lot of shame of
they're not spending enough timewith their kids.
(47:04):
I've known plenty of moms whohave the most secure attachment
to their kids in that scenario.
So I'm curious of that likequantity versus quality, because
I think that's something thatgets thrown on modern modern
moms a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Yeah.
So quality is always greaterthan quantity.
Always.
Right.
Like those five minutes of, Idon't know, shared conversation
and connection between likegoing off into your different
activities is so much, if it'shigh quality, is so much better
than you just like hanging outon your iPad all day, but you're
(47:40):
like present with your kids.
Right.
So quality is always better thanquantity.
And then we want consistency.
Right.
So it can't just be like, well,I tried once this month.
It's, you know, did you can youcome up with a routine where
every day there's a checkpointwith the kids, or you know,
maybe it's not every day, butbut there's some there's a
(48:01):
consistent, sort of predictablenature to the connection time.
So I would say consistentquality is what we want to focus
on.
It's not so much quantity.
That's so helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
This is kind of a random share, but I know there
was a season where mornings werejust the roughest.
And it was like getting the kidsout of the house was chaos.
And I started to have this.
I would I would call it momguilt, but not in the way people
normally do, where I wasstarting to say, like, this
doesn't work.
I don't like this.
(48:36):
Like, this is not how I want mymornings with my kids to look.
And part of that, it's not in mychoice.
Like, I don't get to decidewhether my kids are in a good
mood when they wake up.
I had to decide, like, what arethe things that are within my
consistent power, my authority,my influence that I can shift.
So I started shifting what Icould to make the mornings feel
(48:58):
different.
Music, mood lighting, breakfast,like the mood I was in.
And like one small little thingwas I parked my car and gave
them a hug.
Now, are they still sometimes ina bad mood?
Yes.
But like I've just decided thatlike I want to be in a good mood
with them as much as is withinmy like capacity to do.
(49:20):
And that little quality moment,it made mornings like, oh, I
actually feel like I have mykids in the morning, versus like
this stressful, awful, like,this isn't working for any of
us.
We're starting our days offterrible, and just like that
small, consistent quality time.
Yes.
(49:40):
Magnificently like transformedtruly, not just for them, but
for me.
And we still have rough days,but even those rough days, it's
got a little bit of something.
SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, you're creating thatanchor, right?
Of safety, of like love, ofpositivity.
And it doesn't like they canstill have their bad days.
That's totally fine.
And it's not our job to not makeour kids have bad days.
It's your job to be that safe,consistent, loving, nurturing
presence.
And that's exactly what you didin that, right?
(50:12):
And it and it's a small change,it's not even something that
took up tons of time or likecost a bunch of money.
It's a really small change thatyou're putting in consistently.
That's that touch point for themof connection.
And that's so beautiful.
And what a great example foreverybody.
Yeah, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00 (50:29):
I'm curious for you, either in your personal or your
professional life right now,like what's an area of
attachment that just feelsreally relevant to you, or like
something new, or something likemaybe it's maybe it's a hard
new, maybe it's a good new.
I'm just curious, like what wehaven't touched on around
(50:51):
attachment that you would wantto share or talk about.
SPEAKER_01 (50:54):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think right now I just
had my third baby six monthsago.
And so we have three kids.
We've never had three kidsbefore.
And I think balancing, trying,it's not even balancing, it's
like an attempt at balancingeverybody's needs, including my
(51:14):
husband's and our marriageneeds.
I think that's maybe where I'mjust like, wow, this takes a lot
of intentional effort now, wherewe had kind of before our third
baby gotten into the flow, youknow, we had our two kids and
bedtime was like, I don't know,7:30 or 8.
And then we had a little bit oftime together.
And that's just not the caseright now.
(51:37):
And so I think that's where I'mfocusing on is feeding, feeding
the my marriage and kind of thatattachment.
Because when that's reallysturdy, then our house is a lot
more sturdy too, right?
The teamwork flows better,everybody just feels more
connected.
(51:57):
And so I think that's where I'mstruggling right now, or I guess
focusing on.
It doesn't feel like a majorstruggle, it's just kind of like
the awareness of like, oh, wehave to put effort into this
right now.
Like we have to carve out sometime where we can connect
because life is not giving it tous.
Yeah.
So not so much on my kids orwhatever, but between me and my
(52:20):
husband, I think.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:21):
Well, because the kids are so needy.
Love it, but wow.
Love it, but yeah, yeah.
And I think there's thoseseasons of when you're
navigating parenting andmarriage, and both of those are
really important relationshipsto you.
It is hard to navigate.
It is hard to like hold thetension of everybody's needs,
(52:44):
and then like, oh yes, also,like the only way I can meet
their needs is by meeting myneeds.
I'm curious with secureattachment.
Does friendship come into play?
Oh, for sure.
Or support.
Because I'm thinking, like,there's gonna be so many moms
who are like, oh, I don't, myhusband doesn't have secure
attachment to me, so I don'thave another secure attached
(53:04):
adult.
And yes, I'm attached to mykids, but our kids, especially
for me, like, yes, I have anattachment to my kids, but like
I can't get most of my needs,like my needs aren't being met
there.
Like, I have, you know, there'sa little bit of relational need
met there.
But for the most part, it'slike, where are we getting those
relational needs met when we'rein motherhood?
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
Yeah.
So if you if you feel like yourrelate, your marriage or
relationship, primaryrelationship, isn't the most
secure, right?
That can create a really lonelyfeeling within motherhood,
right?
Because you're probably pouringso much into your kids, right?
So hard to make everythinghealthy and great there.
And then you're not gettingpoured into yourself by your
(53:49):
marriage or partner.
I will say first and foremost,like, go to couples counseling.
Like, do some work on that tofigure out a way where that can
be the place you get filled up,right?
Like, do some work on that.
But in the process of doing workon that, or if you don't have a
partner, you don't have anotherco-parent, create a community
(54:12):
for yourself of women orfriends, whoever it is, that can
be that for you.
My colleague Kelly Sending andI, we host the mom walk
collective here in town.
And so we we do these like momwalks for any mom with littles
to come, and we just go on awalk or listen to some speaker
(54:34):
and do some fun activities.
But it's such a great place toconnect with different moms who
are in it too.
I also have like a book club.
We meet once a month and we talkabout the book for 30 seconds
and then drink wine and eat foodand talk.
You know what I mean?
And that is just such a goodplace to feel like filled up, to
(54:55):
feel seen, validated, to feelnormal, right?
Like I will share my parentingfails or whatever, and my
girlfriends be like, me too.
And so I'm like, okay, cool.
I'm not the only one who likemade PBJ the entire week for
lunch this week, right?
Like, or whatever it is.
And so yeah, you can create asecure network for yourself if
(55:18):
you don't feel like you havethat at home or within your
relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (55:21):
Yeah, and that's and I think even if you do have a
secure relationship, I know whenmy marriage was having a harder
time, I think something thathelped my marriage become
healthier is when I startedhaving secure attachment with
females.
Because all of a sudden I wasn'ttrying to look to my husband to
be that female, nurturing,feminine, motherly person when
(55:45):
like that's just that's just notthe relationship we need to
have.
Like that's that's not who heis, that's not who I need him to
be.
But I think so often in ourculture, the partner or the
co-parent is your village.
And I think it's impossible toask that of them either way.
Like on me, it's too much tolike try to be his whole village
(56:09):
too.
But when I look at bringingsecure attachment to other women
in my life, how much that vastlychanges, having that regularly
scheduled time on my calendarwhere I'm with other secure
women adults who like I canattune to my nervous system.
Can I even just like socialmedia right now is like, oh,
(56:31):
there's no secure attachmenthappening here.
So it's just like getting in aroom of women where it's like,
oh, we're okay.
It's like all of a sudden mybody is like, oh, we're we're
okay.
We really are gonna be okay.
It it changes everything.
Yeah, just being in thoseplaces.
SPEAKER_01 (56:50):
Yep.
And that's just a good point,too.
Like, you cannot rely on oneperson to fill every attachment
need you have.
Yeah.
It like in any relationship,it's not gonna be healthy to
expect one person to beeverything for you.
And so, sort of like creatingthose different places where you
get different types of needs metis so important.
(57:12):
And then also like your ownself-soothing, right?
Being able to meet some of yourown needs at times and not just
rely on somebody else is reallyimportant too.
SPEAKER_00 (57:20):
And so, kind of it just there's a bunch of
different puzzle pieces, yeah.
Yeah, but each little puzzlepiece, I don't remember when I
came up with this, but it'slike, you know, the saying of
like it's the straw that breaksthe camel's back.
It's like, well, it's alsotaking care of the straws that
make sure the camel's backdoesn't break.
Like it doesn't always have tobe this huge, massive thing.
(57:43):
It can be little thing by littlething that you honor for
yourself that you create foryour child.
Like you can do it in manageablepieces.
I I loved this conversation.
I'm curious, like, is thereanything else you'd want to add?
Any like note you'd want toleave on?
SPEAKER_01 (58:01):
I mean, just to remember that attachment is
something you can work on nomatter what.
It's never permanent, it isalways healable.
And you can start with littlesmall steps.
You don't have to bite off morethan you can chew right off the
bat.
So I just want to leave that ashope that there's never anything
(58:21):
permanent, right?
Like we we have the power towork on this at any point.
So it's never too late.
SPEAKER_00 (58:28):
I love that so much.
I think we all need to rememberthat for ourselves, for our
kids, even while we are aware oflike, because you know, they're
like, oh, you only have so muchtime.
And it's like, well, I mean,hopefully, hopefully, I have a
lifetime of being my parent, aparent to these kids.
And it'll change.
I'm starting to realize that.
(58:49):
And like, it'll still be anattachment, hopefully.
That's my point.
As I keep going too.
So, Hannah, this was sobeautiful.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (59:00):
Thank you so much.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (59:05):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
Motherhood Mentor podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment, one
small tangible piece of workthat you can bring into your
life to get your hands a littledirty, to get your skin in the
(59:27):
game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.
If this podcast moved you, if itinspired you, if it encouraged
you, please do me a favor andleave a review.
Send an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women.
(59:48):
And that's what we're doinghere.
So I hope you have an awesomeday.
Take really good care ofyourself, and I'll see you next
time.
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