When Success Isn’t Enough: How Self-Trust Transforms High-Achievers, Lessons from Coaching with Jenna Lee Dillon

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What if transformation isn’t about fixing what’s broken, but learning to relate to yourself with compassion and trust?

In this raw and powerful conversation, guest Jenna Lee Dillon shares the inner shifts she’s experienced through somatic coaching, masterminds, and retreats. Once living in a constant state of “pedal to the metal,” Jenna Lee discovered the radical freedom of trusting herself to know when to accelerate- and when to slow down.

We explore:

1. Why strategy alone can’t touch the deepest parts of growth
2. The metaphors that help women in their head shift how life feels 
3. How to stop performing resilience and actually build a “bigger boat” before the storm hits
4. What changes when high-achieving women stop caretaking everyone else’s emotions first

This episode is an invitation to step off the hamster wheel of extremes and into a new way of being - one where presence, vulnerability, and trust create the kind of transformation no strategy can.

Want to work with Becca? Apply or coaching here: https://www.the-motherhood-mentor.com/reclamationcoaching

Retreat Waitlist: https://themotherhoodmentor.myflodesk.com/ha3wbltjvk

Guest Jenna Lee Dillon 

Gutsy Money : https://gutsymoney.co/

Listen to the podcast on money here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-motherhood-mentor/id1735994095?i=1000697677756

Jenna Lee's Book: https://a.co/d/1YuFPHz

If you’re ready to stop living on autopilot and start leading your life with deep presence, I’d love to work with you. Book a free interest call here: Click Here

💌 Want more? Follow me on Instagram @themotherhoodmentor for somatic tools, nervous system support, and real-talk on high-functioning burnout, ambition, healing perfectionism, and motherhood. And also pretty epic meme drops.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
I'm Becca, a somatic healingpractitioner and a holistic life
coach for moms, and thispodcast is for you.
You can expect honestconversations and incredible
guests that speak to health,healing and growth in every area
of our lives.
This isn't just strategy forwhat we do.
It's support for who we are.
I believe we can be wildlyambitious while still holding

(00:25):
all of our soft and hardhumanity as holy.
I love combining deep innerhealing with strategic systems
and no-nonsense talk about whatthis season is really like.
So grab whatever weird healthbeverage you're currently into
and let's get into it.
Welcome to today's episode ofthe Motherhood Mentor Podcast.
Today I have a super specialguest in episode and she's not

(00:49):
only my first second-time guest,but she's already my first
third-time guest.
And for anyone who's been aguest on my podcast, I just need
you to know that she has asecret competition going on with
you that you're not aware of ofwho can get the most listens.
And you are.
You're like one, you're liketwo listens away.

(01:11):
Like you might be there.
I'll have to go check today.
So I have the lovely DenaliDillon with me and this podcast
is happening because she's abrilliant, genius marketing
person and one day she was likeyou just need to take videos of
asking us questions fortestimonials of clients.
And then I was like, okay, fine, but you have to make me do it.

(01:33):
And then we were like, well,let's just do a podcast, cause I
felt awkward just sitting in aroom taking videos.
Like, let's just get on apodcast, have a conversation
about coaching and its impactand what it looks like, and also
just bragging on Jenna Lee andhow amazing she is.
So will you introduce yourselfall of the different facets of
you?
Sure?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'd love to so.
First of all, the entirepurpose of me being here is to
brag on you, so jokes on you.
That's what's happening today.
But thank you for the warmintroduction and for announcing
that I am winning my ownself-competition with your other
guests, or almost winning.
I'm Jenna Lee Dillon.
As you said, I own a number oforganizations.

(02:15):
The two most active are myparent coaching business,
soon-to-be nonprofit Screen FoodRevolution, and then my
accounting and bookkeeping andbusiness advisory firm, gutsy
Money, which I co-own with abusiness partner, and that is
where I get to exercise theother side of my brain.
Half of my brain is constantlydedicated toward marketing and

(02:36):
writing.
I'm a published author and anavid writer of all kinds of
things, from poetry to blogs.
But it's really fun at GutsyMoney because I get to exercise
both the part of my brain thatloves numbers.
I like to say I only lovenumbers if there's a dollar sign
in front of them, to be clear.
So my love of numbers andbusiness finance and then

(02:57):
business optimization, and thenI also run the operations for
Gutsy Money.
So I am currently like neckdeep in onboarding and
operations software that isgoing to completely transform
our project management and theway our businesses run and that
is really fun to say as also acreative writer.
So, yeah, I'm very multifaceted.
I'm a solo mom, as you know, toan amazing seven and a half

(03:17):
year old.
I am currently joined in theoffice by a 10 year old mini
Aussie who rules us all with aniron paw, which is very bossy,
and I'm originally from Coloradoand I am a very fortunate
recipient of your genius in theform of your coaching, as well
as masterminds and other eventsthat I get to attend.

(03:40):
So, really, what I want to sayis I'm a number one fan.
Number one fan.
Don't tell your husband of you.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
My whole face is just going to blush and I'm going to
feel slightly uncomfortablethis entire time, but it'll be
great and I'll also probablycrawl cry.
Oh my gosh.
Before we started recording, meand Jenna Lee were laughing
because I am just starting mymenstrual cycle, which means,
thank God I don't.
I'm not in luteal.
I don't feel like a bridgetroll, I don't feel like I'm

(04:08):
failing, but sometimes thosefirst few days of my period my
mouth does not want to work,like words feel hard.
So I'm going to mess up a lotof words today.
It's going to be okay, it'll befine, but one.
That was an amazing intro andevery time you talk I just feel
like I learned something newabout you and you were like I'm

(04:30):
from Colorado.
I'm like, yeah, but you'velived a million places.
It feels like you go on all ofthese adventures and travel.
Your book Screen Freed is sogreat.
In fact, I was just sharing itin a group.
People were trying to sharelike their journeys with tech.
And one thing I want to I'lltell you this to the moon like,
yes, it's so great for peopletraveling with little kids and
especially like those youngeryears.

(04:51):
But when I read it, it reallyhelped me rethink technology and
it's still impacting us becauseit really did help me
renegotiate our values and how Iwant to feel, not out of guilt
or shame, but also not out oflike pretending it's not an
issue.
So anyways, um so, getting intocoaching, I'm thinking back to

(05:13):
like when I first met Jenna Lee.
We knew each other a little.
We were like semi internetfriends, more like internet
acquaintances.
I think you know we would likeeach other's shares.
We would talk about a littlebit and you came to a retreat.
That was like our first realdepth interaction.
How, how did you feel cominginto that retreat?

(05:36):
What was that like for you,this new space where you didn't
even really know me, you didn'tknow a lot of other people?
Like, what made you come andwhat was it like?
If you can think back I mean,that was a couple of years ago
now- yeah 2022, maybe?
Yep, I think Sound great.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, I think that.
I think that's right.
I think it was fall of 2022.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
We don't have a fact checker on this podcast, so
there's no make up anything wewant.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Just kidding, yeah, that's a, that's a really fun.
It's really fun to think backon that.
So I, I think, probably alittle bit uniquely, I have a
lot of experience with divinginto things sight unseen.
You mentioned that I have liveda lot of places.
I moved to Oregon having neverbeen there.
I moved to Austin having neverbeen there.
I moved to Austin having neverbeen there.
I moved to Dublin, never havingbeen there.

(06:27):
So like that's a bit my MO issort of jumping in without a lot
of upfront information.
It's why I love obstacle courseraces.
I just I think it's a reallygood way to challenge myself,
because otherwise I would loveto find every single solitary
detail in advance and like justjust crush all the mystery out
of it.
So instead I have really pushedmyself in my life to dive into

(06:50):
things that feel aligned and notreally ask any more questions
after that.
So that's a bit of how I wascoming into the retreat.
I had felt very connected toyour content.
I liked your personality onyour Instagram Becca is the best
on Instagram Just like I don'tscroll much anymore these days,
but when your Instagram story ora post comes across my feed, I

(07:12):
stop in my tracks and I read itor watch it.
So I really liked yourpersonality and I had
experienced previously the valueof in-person, community-based
either healing or growth or evenjust, you know, business
masterminds, and I was reallylooking for that.
I was looking for it in my roleas a mother.

(07:36):
I was looking for it amongwomen.
I was looking for you know, Iused to, I've traveled a lot to
go to these things, but when Icome home it's like, oh, I'm
alone with this.
So I was really looking for youknow, I used to.
I've traveled a lot to go tothese things, but when I come
home it's like, oh, I'm alonewith this.
So I was really looking forsomething that was involving
people who are local, so thatthere was the opportunity for us
to be together in person, youknow, other than just once a

(07:57):
year or twice a year.
So all of those factors werepresent and I didn't really.
And then I knew we would be inthe woods in a cabin which is
just like delightful, it'sColorado, it's amazing.
So that's really all theinformation I needed and, yeah,
I guess it could have gonehorribly, but it didn't.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
If you think about it like that, could either be a
nightmare or this magical,wonderful experience.
It was a magical, wonderfulexperience.
precisely, it was a magicalwonderful experience, precisely
so, looking back and you know Idon't love the before and afters
, I don't love the like you werethis and now you're this,
because we're all somultifaceted and we're always

(08:36):
healing, we're always growingand I never see women as like a
project or something that, likeyou, have to have this outcome.
And you know we've talked aboutthis how, like I struggle with
marketing and I struggle withselling because so many other
people, they sell this likemagical transformation.
And I'm curious for you whatdoes like transformation

(08:59):
actually look and feel likethrough these retreats and
coaching?
What does that look and feellike?
Where, like there is thistransformation that's happened
in you.
I mean, we've talked about it,you've shared it, I've seen it
in you.
And yet there's also this likeyou're not a before and after,
like you're this continuallygrowing person who still has

(09:19):
experiences, even now, even inthe afterlife, like I think of
me now it's I'm so differentthan I used to be, but I'm still
human, I still have stuff.
There's never this like arrival.
I know that's a really weirdprompt, but I think it's.
It's somewhere where I want tostart.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, no, I think it's a fun prompt and you know I
love a metaphor and for me, thesuper cliche metaphor of life
being like a meandering path, ajourney, unless we have to and
I've, and again, I'm reallyworking to not live my life like

(10:07):
that, because right like thisis all we get.
The experience of life is is iswhat we get, and so I would say
that the retreat and workingwith you as a coaching client, I
feel like I was going to walk apath right, life is until we're
gone from this planet, we'removing through time and space,

(10:29):
and what I get out of coachingand retreats and things like
that is I a lot.
I see things that I wouldn'tsee.
So if you're just like walkingthis path and you're just
staring at the path, not payingattention to anything around you
, that's me pretty much innormal life and this enables me
to open up, expand my view, tosee things I wouldn't have seen,
to like see things and actuallydevelop the ability to like

(10:57):
soak them in and take them inand live in that awe that if we
make ourselves open to that awe,unfortunately, we make
ourselves open to all thingsright, and so it opens us up in
this really vulnerable way tolike the things that hurt too.
But through our coaching andthe retreats I've just firmly
rooted myself in.
I want to be open because Idon't want to miss the awe.
I don't want to miss the tinythings that are really like the

(11:21):
full heart things, the hug frommy daughter when I really want
to jump into the next task,because she stopped me in the
middle of the kitchen while I'mcooking dinner, you know.
So it's opened me.
It's enabled me to see morethings.
It's enabled me when I'msticking with the metaphor, when
I come to like a river I needto ford, you know.
I mean, one of the earlychallenges I was having when I

(11:44):
first came to that retreat andwe talked a lot about it at
retreat was I was in a period inmy life of just insanity.
I was remodeling a home, I wasselling an agency, I was working
a full-time job and I wasmanaging marketing clients on
top of that and I'm a single momwith majority custody.
My speed was supersonic and Iwas looking at some of those

(12:06):
things evolving the business,selling me, leaving the
full-time job and having sometime to actually take one of my
little mini retirements and justbe in my life, and I was
terrified because I'm like howam I going to slow down?
How will I ever, ever slow down?
I only know pedal to the metal,and so I would consider that
like a river, like a thing Ineeded to forward and I needed

(12:27):
to figure out how to do it.
Well, and you helped me developthe tools and really you helped
me just know that I could,which sounds so simple and is
not even a little bit simple.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, it sounds so basic.
It's like the oh, you can do it.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
And it's like okay, great, but I don't believe you
Like great head talking.
But that's what I love aboutthe somatic aspects of working
with you.
I would gladly run my entirelife from like corporate central
up in my head and that isreally great in some aspects and
it's really shit in others,such as relationships with my

(13:20):
daughter and my partner.
My physical health you know,understanding my capacity,
believing that I actually havelimitations to my partner.
My physical health you know,understanding my capacity,
believing that I actually havelimitations to my capacity, rude
.
And so the somatic aspect ofyour coaching has kind of
several things.
One it's connected me to myselfin a way that I was not ever
connected.
It has enabled me, when I learnsomething, when I learn a

(13:45):
lesson, to actually absorb itand metabolize it, and that
means it's become part of me.
It's not like this place I haveto go in my head to remind
myself of a should.
It's actually just a new layerof my being, of my way of being,
and so I was resistant to thesomatic aspects.
You may remember, in thebeginning I was like I don't

(14:05):
want to tug up.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
How doesn't my body hurt Like this is weird.
This is dumb Becca.
What is this?
Go back to the strategy, goback to the mindset and I'm like
no, no, no, try it.
Just trust me here.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, if I had to say anything like that, that
aspect of your coaching is theonly way I could have ever come
home to myself, and I continueto use it when I'm not with you.
I continue to love how youground me on our coaching calls
by utilizing somatics and I justtruly feel like, instead of my

(14:39):
body being this separate entitythat I'm just trying to control
or slim down or forced to pushthrough lack of sleep or all
these things like this justseparate sort of machine that I
use, I've come to realize isactually me, part of me, and it
is a store of memories and it isa place to live, and it is a

(15:04):
place to live no matter what theworld is doing out there.
I can find a peaceful oasishere in this body and I didn't
know that.
So I'm truly grateful that yoursomatics brilliance and
background and all the trainingyou've chosen to invest in in
that area has just reallybenefited me immensely.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I'm just sitting in awe of the work that
you've done in the devotion andthe dedication and something you
just said.
You said like coming home toyourself, like you find like
that.
It's so crazy because in thepast few months and I don't even
think it started integratingprofessionally for me yet, I

(15:48):
think it's still a little bitpersonal.
And it's so interesting thatword home keeps coming up for me
over and over and over again,because I've realized the last
few years like oh, I feel athome in myself and not just
shiny professional doing greatBecca.
Like, yeah, I feel at homethere, but like I've always felt
at home in myself and not justshiny professional doing great
Becca.
Like, yeah, I feel at homethere, but like I've always felt
at home in my greatness.

(16:09):
I also feel at home when I'mhaving those like shit luteal
days.
I also feel at home when I'm inthose struggling, healing,
navigating hard shit inmotherhood or marriage or
business.
Like I also feel home there.
And that's always been my heartfor this business.
It's never been this.
You become this excellentperson because, in my opinion,

(16:33):
you already are that.
Like you already, like youcan't earn it and you can't lose
it, but it's like my hope forevery woman I encounter, whether
she works with me, whether shejust listens to the podcast or
my content which, like I thinkyou've been there early enough
where, like I still felt socringy, like the people pleasing

(16:53):
and the like, imposter syndromeand the like oh my God, I'm
going to die Like those thingswere very real in the beginning
for me.
They still sometimes are, butmy hope in all of that is that
women come home to themselves,not that they see, becca, I'm
not magic.

(17:13):
I mean sure I have some magic,but my hope is always that I can
create a space in a containerwhere someone can hear
themselves, where someone canfeel themselves and see
themselves and perceive theirlife in this new way that I once
didn't know how to do either.
It's like I was reading thisbeautiful you could call it poem

(17:39):
writing.
It was on a blog, it was fromAubrey, I'll put it below, but
she was talking about like joydidn't come easy in motherhood,
and like there's some momentswhere I remember there was a
past version of me where, likethis new embodiment, I didn't
even know it was possible.
I didn't know it was even real.
And I have to say, too, one ofthe things I love about

(18:00):
masterminds and retreats and Ido get this with clients, but I
think it's even more potent in acommunity and in person.
The amount of permission andhealing I've had from getting to
be a witness to some ofpeople's most raw and vulnerable
moments is massive.
Just witnessing these women whoI see and I'm like holy shit,

(18:23):
she's so cool.
And then, like you, you aresomeone who, like when you
walked into a room, I was likeshe is so much and everything in
me lit up at that, becausethere was so long where women
who were too much.
I was terrified to be that, butI knew I was.
And there was a new level ofpermission when I got in the

(18:43):
room with you, when I said Iwant to even more like that, and
not in a Becca's bad way, butin a like I think innately I am
more like that, but I've hiddenthat part of me.
I haven't embraced it becauseI've shamed it.
But then I saw it in you and Iwas like it's easy for me to
celebrate and love in her.
Yes, why would I not like findthat in me so?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
I just I call that borrowing, so I love that and I
do it all the time in our math.
After our mastermind and afterretreat, I borrow what I saw
women bring and sometimes I'mlike, oh, it doesn't fit, that's
fine, you know, just like I putthe sweater back in their
closet, not, you know, not myright color or whatever.
But I think that getting youknow it's different than the

(19:29):
comparison on social media,right?
Or we see someone on socialmedia who we don't know and
they're projecting somethingthat they want us to see and
we're like, oh, I want that.
It's very different.
Sitting in a room with women whoare being raw and vulnerable
and talking about the hardthings in their lives and still
talking about how they'reshowing up to those things, like
that's what I want to borrow,because I don't need to borrow

(19:52):
shininess.
I want to borrow, you know,strength in the face of a
challenge.
I want to borrow creativity ina difficult relationship.
I want to borrow vulnerabilityin my motherhood and when I see
you and the women in ourmastermind and retreats
exhibiting those things, I seethat it's possible.
You're exactly right, there'spermission and then I can borrow
it.
And you know they say thatchildren learn from us modeling

(20:18):
and I just I don't think thatstops at childhood.
I think we're, all you know,learning from modeling and I
want to surround myself withpeople who have attributes that
I want to try on, yeah Well.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
And they say, you become like the five people you
spend the most time with.
And what's hilarious is when Ifirst learned that I had a
toddler and a baby.
And I remember like the literalday that I heard that, because
I had heard it on like some broself development podcast.
I remember like it was one ofthose days where that spicy
toddler was spicy, like we werehaving like roller coaster

(20:53):
moments of like is she okay?
Am I okay?
What are we doing here?
And I heard that and I was like,no wonder I feel like an insane
person, no wonder I feel sodysregulated.
But that to me, I had thismoment where I was like, oh,
this is essential.
Me, I had this moment where Iwas like, oh, this is essential,
this is non-negotiable that Iget myself in regular,

(21:13):
intentional community of womenso that I have other people
influencing me and toco-regulate with.
Because the reality is like,and I have a great husband, and
I even think of like now, like Ihave a great husband, I have a
great friends, I have greatfamily and for me, having an

(21:34):
intentional community that isshowing up with the purpose and
the presence to for all of me toshow up to the table,
whatever's happening, whetherit's business or motherhood or
marriage or even like internalhealing stuff that's going on.
Having a table where we saywe're setting aside this time to
do this, we're setting asidethis time to come together and

(21:58):
show up to it.
And that, for me, is what mycoaching calls are, too is
there's so many rooms and somany arenas where there's give
and there's take, and there'snot necessarily places where I
go, where I feel like I can justcome here and receive today.
I don't have to bring anything,I don't have to show up as
strong Becca, I don't have toknow what's going on, I can just
be a girl.
That was my whole theme when Iattended a retreat.

(22:19):
The other it was early thissummer, I attended a retreat
instead of hosting and I waslike I just get to be a girl, I
don't have to be in, and youknow, all those parts and pieces
of me were still there.
But there's a difference whenyou're not trying to be
professional and you're nottrying to be a parent and you're
not trying to be a spouse andyou're not trying to be a friend
, you just get to be all of thatand none of that.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah, yeah, I love that and I think you're right.
There's the intentional like.
First of all, there's the time,just strictly making time once
a month to turn off my phone, tostep away from my computer, to
like just completely disconnectfrom the responsibilities and

(23:03):
get to reflect on my life in thepresence of people I trust to
hold whatever I bring sopowerful.
And I also think like there's alot of caretaking that can
happen.
And you know we've talked aboutthe book too much and high
functioning codependencyextensively.
It's kind of my new favoritetopic.
And you know, even inconversations, when I'm in
conversation with a friend, afamily member, a colleague or a
client, there's a level ofconstant caretaking running in

(23:26):
my brain of how do I make thisconversation, whatever it needs
to be for them, right, eitherefficient and effective for a
colleague or like productive andmake sure they feel held and
that they can trust me with aclient.
Or, you know, just watching outfor the emotions that my friend
or family member mightexperience from what I'm saying.
And while I'm working onreducing that caretaking because

(23:47):
other people's feelings and allthat are theirs there's just
always still going to be anelement of I care.
I care if the thing I say hurtssomeone's feelings.
And when we come together, Itrust the women who we are in
community with to, you know not.
I mean, I really just trustthem to have a ton of emotional
intelligence, and they do.
And so they don't take thingspersonally and they're not

(24:10):
thinking about what I'm sayingthrough their own lens.
They're really just like verypresent to an open to what I'm
bringing.
And then, likewise when, whenthey're speaking, I can just be
really present and open, andthere's there's a different kind
of listening that occurs whenwhen the recipients like is just
focused on you.
It's so cool.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
It's.
It's so refreshing and, I think, what's interesting from my
perspective, of retreats andmasterminds specifically, and
even with clients, but I thinkone-on-one with clients this
changes a little bit butspecifically in rooms of women,
where there's a lot of most ofthe women I work with are
caretakers by nature, they areleaders by nature.

(24:55):
They will be the first ones tosay I volunteer as tribute,
whether that is to do the hardthing, to do the emotional labor
, to negate their needs, to puttheir emotions or their business
or their personal needs on theback burner for their family,
for their friends, for theirbusiness.
Like they will be thevolunteerist tribute.
They will be the first personto say oh, she needs me more

(25:19):
than I need her right now.
I'm going to just layeverything I needed at the back
and I'm not going to bring it tothe table because I need to be
less so that she can take upspace.
There's like this competitivenature where you don't want it
to be a competition and so whenI'm creating the spaces for
these retreats and thesemasterminds, I come in with
pretty especially at thebeginning, especially when it's

(25:41):
a new room.
It's been a while for, like ourgroup, because we've been going
for a while.
But I usually come with a moremasculine energy of like, hey,
listen, you're not in charge ofher, you're not responsible for
her, and I really come with thisenergy, which isn't just what I
say, it isn't just the rules,it's quite literally an
embodiment of I've got you, I'vegot her, I've got the room.

(26:06):
I'm the one paying attention tothe energy in the room and
where it's going, and I'll bethe one who leads it.
I'll be the one who speeds itup or slows it down or brings it
deeper or brings it back upright when I'm like hey, guys,
we're done doing deep work, nowwe're going to go up here.
Now we're going to go playgames, now we're going to like,

(26:31):
and you know, always anintegrity and always with like
time.
But I think a lot of spaces aremissing, that they're trying so
hard to be girls girls, if youwill of well, we all just get
along and like each other andit's like well, no, sometimes
personalities clash andsometimes people have different
views or different agendas ordifferent needs, and if we're
not talking about that, if we'renot talking about that, if
we're not bringing that to thetable first, people won't feel

(26:51):
safe enough to let down thatpersona, to let down that
professionalism, to let downthat like I've got this or the
like.
Oh, I have to pretend I'mfalling apart just because she
is versus.
What I love and my always heartis that one woman in the room
she can be having the greatestseason ever.

(27:12):
Everything is killing it andthe women in the room have the
capacity to witness her and whatshe's experiencing and notice
they might have a response tothat.
They might have a reaction tothat.
We're not going to villainizethat and also to not put that on
her and to not make yourselfcheapen or clean up what you're

(27:33):
bringing to the table to matchher energy.
You don't have to match herenergy.
You can let her energy be herenergy and bring your own to the
table, and I think that's rareand I think it's hard to find
where you can be that vulnerablewithout it getting gross and
messy.
I'm curious you know what feelsdifferent about these

(27:55):
communities and these rooms toyou.
I'm curious what you experience.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's a great question .
It's something I definitelywanted to touch on in this class
or in this class, in this class, on this podcast, I, as I
mentioned earlier, I've done alot of personal development and
that has been by myself, throughreading, that has been in large
conference-style rooms, thathas been on intimate, very
goal-driven teams.

(28:22):
It's been really the gamut.
I don't think there's any kindof personal development I
haven't done and I loved thatand a lot of that aligned with
my natural instincts to liketake responsibility for my life
and own my results and you know,measure the things I'm doing in
my life and you know understandwhy I'm getting the outcomes.

(28:43):
If I want different outcomes, Ineed to do something different.
Like all of that.
You know pretty masculine andpretty intellectual and I
already knew how to do that.
So coming into coaching withyou and being in these rooms and
having it, first of all, not begoal-oriented was new for me

(29:04):
and then to have it not just belike a like whipping myself
toward a result, right, like.
I already developed that skillset and it's frankly, like it's
not the right tool foreverything, but I was using it
for everything.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Just like whip yourself, just keep, just keep
driving yourself and yeah itreally wasn't working for
motherhood and like let me justuse my whip on you, honey, How's
that?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
for myself.
Like, let me just, you know,take full.
I took full responsibility formy marriage, you know, and it
turns out like that doesn't work.
I could never make up for hiszero percent.
So, um, what I love is thatit's because there's not an
agenda other than everybody Idon't even know if there is an
agenda.

(29:50):
Because there's not an agenda,because there's a sense of
community, because there is thatshared, shared celebration and
empathy, because you hold thecontainer so well for us that we
can set down our need to havethe answers and to to be the
caregiver for others, whetherthey ask for it or not, and to

(30:13):
appear perfect or all thesethings.
We can set down all thebullshit from the world.
Because you have held thecontainer for us and because you
constantly remind us, teach usand model taking up space.
That was a huge lesson for me.
I thought I took up a lot ofspace.
People who know me are like shedoesn't state all of her
opinions and always ask for whatshe wants.
No, there are more.
And like I couldn't exit aconversation if I had to go to

(30:37):
the bathroom, I was just like,no, just stay, that's not
important, your literal physicalbody's need is not important,
just stay because you don't wantto interrupt the person.
And now I'm like, no, I'mpretty sure they'll survive if I
need to interrupt them to go.
You know, care for myself, likeyou, model that and continue to
encourage us around that.
And so it.
Yeah, it's, it's a space whereI can come, be held without

(31:04):
being coddled Maybe that's themost succinct way to put it, and
that's really important to mebecause I always associated.
If I wasn't the one holding thespace, holding the vision,
leading all of that, then theonly alternative was either
failure or just like totallycoddling.

(31:25):
And they didn't know there wasa.
You called it, it masculine,but I would also say that you
bring a lot of very healthyfeminine, and healthy feminine
does not go oh you poor littlebaby man, your life is so hard
or if they do, that's a verybrief, like opportunity to
empathize, and then we move intolike a healthier space about it
and so, um, the the healthydance you do of masculine and

(31:51):
feminine, the way you hold this,hold the container, um, the way
that we get to be in communitywithout agenda or goal or or
this like underlying belief thatexists behind a lot of personal
development, which is likeyou're broken, come find the
thing to fix.
This is where you'll find thething to fix about you.

(32:12):
That's never the vibe.
All of those things are reallydifferent from personal
development.
And then I talked to you theother day about how different
this is from therapy too.
My experiences with talk therapyhave been they've ranged, but
mostly individual.
Talk therapy hasn't reallymoved the needle in my life and
I often felt like theexpectation was I would just
come like dump my life for anhour and then I would leave and

(32:34):
go back to that same life.
I had had to come there to dumpand I was like, well, that's
not a good use of my time Likethere's a little release,
there's a little pressurerelease, just a little bit of
like.
Oh, somebody heard it, butthere wasn't any like movement
in my life.
There wasn't any like movementin my life.
There wasn't.
I just kept bringing the sameshit week after week and working
with you on a coaching basis,although, once again, there's

(32:56):
never like a defined agenda forour coaching there.
I may bring an agenda to a calloccasionally, but there's not
like an overall agenda for thecoaching.
And yet I've had more movementin my life, more desirable
results achieved in my life interms of feeling happy in my
parenting, in terms of buildinga freaking, amazing romantic
partnership, in terms ofstepping into my power as a

(33:19):
businesswoman and as a humanfocus.
They end up coming with likeease and they land with a
solidity because, like Imentioned earlier, they're like
part of my being now, versusjust this tool I have to reach
for when I'm struggling.
So, yeah, those are some of theways that you and coaching and

(33:42):
masterminds and retreats withyou are different and way better
.
In case I haven't been clear,way better than others.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
I love hearing the like relational aspect because I
think it's one thing to teachsomeone a skill, it's one thing
to say here's an answer to theproblem you're having, and a lot
of coaching and even a lot ofmodern therapy or pop psychology
.
It's like here's your question,here's your problem, here's the

(34:10):
answer, here's the solution,here's the diagnosis.
And my heart, my approach andeven, like so many of my mentors
, so much of my teaching, it'show do you relate to the thing?
It's yes, this is slower, yes,this is not direct, and a lot.
It's so funny.
You talked about that earlierand I was thinking about like,

(34:32):
there's so many clients who cometo me who are very
heart-centered, who are like Ineed to learn directness, I need
to learn how to like use mymind, because my emotions are
overriding me.
And then I also have theseclients who come to me and
they're like here's my directresults I want to need how do I
get them?
And I'm like oh, the journeypart is going to be so hard for
you.
But like, because it's true,like sometimes we have this

(34:55):
agenda.
But like, if you think, if youcame to a relationship in a
partnership, if you had, like, aboyfriend or husband, whatever,
and you had an agenda for thatperson.
Yeah, your partner had anagenda for you.
They were like here's what Iwant out of Becca.
How much would you not like myhusband if he was like here's
how I get what I want out of her.

(35:16):
Here's how I treat her to getthis thing.
It's making me sick.
Yeah, it would be like badgoosebumps, not good goosebumps.
I want to not talk about himanymore because it's making me
feel gross.
But that is the relationshipthat so many women have to their
lives is I am an object thatcreates things.
I am an object that performsroles, that is productive.

(35:38):
Here is how I get the outputand I'm like no, you are a human
who deserves relating to.
You, are not a problem to solve, and if we can get that
relationship healed, any problemthat comes you can solve it,
because now there's arelationship, there's a give and
a take, there's a like.
You were even talking aboutearlier, the whip, the like.

(36:01):
High control isn't the word youused.
It was a really good word.
What was it?
Ambition, drive, no, drive, yes, but it was like this high
control over yourself or oh, Ihave to be this victim and I
have to be really wimpy.
It's that like I either have tohave all the accountability or
none of the accountability.

(36:23):
I think so many women will saythey want balance and it's like
to me.
There is no perfect balance.
That's not a state you have in,it is.
How do I relate to mypolarities, to the part of me
that wants and needs validationand also the part in me that
wants and needs me to sometimeshave this attitude of like, get

(36:45):
up, get up, like no, we don'twant to go back to like whipping
ourselves into shape.
But also we can't go to thepolar opposite of having no
accountability, not takingresponsibility for ourselves, or
actions or behaviors, like justrecently.
There's been some things in mylife where I was like, oh, I
wish I didn't know this about me, I wish I didn't see it.

(37:07):
I don't like it, it's not fun,it's not fuzzy, but guess what?
Loving myself is seeing thoseparts of me and learning how to
love them into healing.
And sometimes that looks like afirm mother setting boundaries
for myself, not out ofrestriction, not out of
punishment, but out of I loveyou too much to keep letting you
consume too much or somethingthat's hurting you or not

(37:31):
consuming enough of what youneed.
That's not a healthyrelationship to a person, or
something that's hurting you ornot consuming enough of what you
need like, though, that's not ahealthy relationship to a
person.
And that's always my heart andmy goal with a woman, because
it's like, if we can restorethat relationship to yourself,
you have what you need, nomatter what season you're in,
whether it's winter or fall orsummer, because, guess what?
You're gonna have high seasons,you're gonna have low.

(37:53):
One of the things you said youmentioned these like word
pictures, and this was aquestion I came up with that.
I was actually really excitedto ask you.
I come up with the weirdestword pictures and I'm going to
ask you if you can think of somethat I've used, that you've
loved, that we could talk about,that have maybe helped you, or
maybe the weirdest one, but andthis is off top of head, so it's

(38:14):
okay if you don't remember anybut are there any that we've
talked about that have reallyhelped you?

Speaker 2 (38:20):
What's a word picture ?

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Not a word picture.
How do you say this Like?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
a metaphor.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Metaphor, that's the word.
Oh yeah, yes, okay, well wordsright now.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Hope, so, that is my job.
So the uh yeah, the gas pedalone was huge.
I remember, you know, saying toyou like I only know how to go
pedal to metal.
I don't ever touch the brake.
What if I touch the brake andmy foot's so heavy it hits the
brake and I never could take itoff and I'm just stuck in my
life and my life is happening tome.
And so you really taught me.

(38:53):
You were like, first of all,this is a terrible way to drive,
although people do it.
But you're right, you can haveyour one foot on the brake and
one foot on the gas and you cantoggle them.
And that's not only okay,that's really effective at
figuring out what the rightspeed is for you.
And you can go 30, you can go80, you can trust yourself to
know the appropriate speed andthen go it.

(39:16):
And I was like, are you sure?
And it took us a while, butlike now I think I was telling
you the other day, I don't evenlike that's not even a thought
the fact that there was onceupon a time that I didn't know
that I could adjust my paceaccordingly, moment to moment,
day to day, month to month andseason to season.
It boggles me because onceagain, it's become part of who I
am, that ability, so I will sayanother one you have is.

(39:39):
I love when you talk aboutthere's no such thing like
balance, as in I'm going to findI'm going to strike this
perfect percentage of everybucket in my life and then I
will have it all.
I love when you talk aboutthat's bullshit.
Balance is a constant, likeit's a you've used a really good
word and I'm blinking on it.

(40:00):
What's that?
Negotiating Maybe?
Yeah, Like when you're liketuning an instrument, like
recalibration, like it's aconstant.
You know recalibration andyou're finding the balance that
works today, that didn't workyesterday, that won't work
tomorrow, and so what a lot of alot of what you teach comes

(40:21):
down to self-trust and you justfind different, really good ways
to say it and we all have.
Every one of us is going tohave a different area of our
life in which we that havingmore self-trust could benefit us
.
But that's what that came downto, that pace when the miles per
hour came down to self-trust,really.

(40:42):
But you, putting it in thatmetaphor enabled me to be like,
oh, I'm having a 30 mile an hourday, and yesterday was a 60
mile an hour.
Today, Becca was right, I cando that, I can change this, so
that was helpful.
Let's see what else I love the,um, I mean the, the, the dead
bird.
One's pretty good.
Can I bring that one up?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
The dead bird is also one of my favorite because it
literally took me by surprise ona client call and I got done
and I was like, oh, I neededthis, Like I like I didn't have
that metaphor until I was inthat call and I was like, oh
shit, that's really good, butreally confusing, I think.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I mean I think it's easily summarized for me I've,
I've used, I've, literallybefore I've had to go talk to my
partner about something.
I was anxious about hisresponse.
I and hopefully you'll do avideo clip I went and I just
like metaphor, like in my mind,I like dropping this dead bird
at his feet before I went intoit.
Yeah, and so I think that youknow.

(41:39):
The general description is it'slike if you have the big thing
that's so true for you and youare afraid that it's going to
affect the other person, but youhave to just not think about
the other person and just bringthem your dead bird, but you

(42:04):
have to just not think about theother person and just bring
them your dead bird and it'smaybe.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
You know it feels ugly to you, feels vulnerable,
feels messy, feels stinky, butlike it's true.
So you got to drop it at theirfeet and then they'll do what
they're going to do with it.
Backstory to that is so many ofthe women I work with and I
would include myself in thewomen that I work with, by the
way.
I'm my hardest client, I'm theworst person to work with.
Honestly, I'd way rather workwith other people than myself.
But we have this tendency towrap everything in this pretty
bow, to do so much mental andemotional and spiritual labor

(42:30):
before we bring anyone else theproblem.
Like I used to never bring upany problems unless I already
had a solution, unless I hadalready played mental chess 50
different ways of the way theycould respond or the way they
would respond or the way theyused to respond, and the amount
of energy that took me wasinsane.

(42:51):
And also it was armor I wouldwear to protect myself from
needing to be vulnerable andneeding to show up messy,
especially I think of in mymarriage, or even with my
friendships, or even like in mymasterminds, where, like I
wouldn't bring up businessproblems unless I also had a

(43:14):
solution, or I wouldn't bring aproblem to the table if I didn't
have it well defined, if Icouldn't come say this is what I
need help with, instead of justcoming and saying here this, I
don't even know what I need, Idon't know what to ask, I don't
know what to look for.
I would wait until I wasn'toverwhelmed.
I was always caretaking myselfand I never gave other people

(43:37):
the opportunity to show up forme, and I had to learn,
especially in my marriage, tostop trying to prettily package
everything and just bring himthe dead bird.
Like a cat just shows up and islike here's the bird, and then
walk away and not need to drawit out, not need to over explain
, not need to give, not needingme or him to validate it, just

(43:59):
saying I think this is it orwhat I'm feeling, and so that's
where the dead bird came from.
Is like what if, instead oftrying to make it this pretty
easily non-messy package,there's just some people where
we can just bring the dead bird?

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Well, and we actually give up the opportunity for
connection and to be seen whenwe don't bring them the real,
like our actual experience right, when we bring them the.
My favorite thing is becauseI'm a writer and I post a lot to
social media and publicly writeand I'm like I'll post about it
after I'm through it or after Ifixed it and then it'll be like
an aha for other people whomight be in that season.

(44:38):
But I never really, but I glossover what the season was like
in order to race to the solutionand a lot of connections
started happening for me and alot of people reaching out to me
and saying you know, I readyour post.
It meant so much to me.
I'm totally there when Istarted sharing from the place
of the yuck, the muck, thedealing with it, and I've had

(45:01):
literal friendships come out ofthat where someone's, like I
feel, seen and then we starttalking about it and then we
have this friendship immediatelybased on authenticity versus,
like our polished end resultversions.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
It's that messy middle and I think our culture
and even especially in theentrepreneur world maybe not in
the writing side of theentrepreneur world, but they're
caught in I hear this constantlyfrom coaches don't share until
it's a healed scar.
I'm like no, no, no, no, no.

(45:37):
That was one of the biggestreasons I started my business,
because I saw rooms and tableswhere women were just bleeding
out and no one was healing andeveryone was like it's fine,
we're all just bleeding,everything's fine.
And I was like why do we hatelife and each other?
And then there was these tableswhere people only talked about

(45:57):
it when things were pretty andthings were in the after and
they had already had thistransformational and it was
always this testimony and neverthis like okay, I'm in it and I
don't have easy answers and Idon't have easy like there's no
pretty bow to tie on this yet.
And so much of the heart ofcoaching for me and the

(46:19):
community especially communities, but even in one-on-one is like
can we grow capacity to sit inthe open questions where there's
no easy answer for thisquestion?
I think so much of our humanpain has come from other people
trying to tie pretty bows onthings that aren't pretty,

(46:39):
trying to make things positivethat aren't positive.
We've tried to make good andhappy this unachievable and
unrealistic and unhealthy.
Honestly, it's very unhealthy.
It's like no.
What if we learned to havecapacity for in relationship to
our full dynamic aliveness?

(47:00):
And sometimes that feels likeshit and sometimes you have
these open wounds that areactively bleeding and you
deserve connection while you'rein that messy middle.
You don't have to always cleanit up, and I think a wounding a
lot of women have when they comework with me is that they've
never been in a room of womenwhere they could have both,

(47:21):
where they could be allowed tosay I am really good, I've got
this shit, I'm not worried aboutme, but I need to be able to
come sometimes and be like Idon't know what I'm doing, I
don't know who I am, I'mconfused, I'm in the messy
middle, I'm in the dark, I'm inthe transition, I'm not where I
was, I'm not where I'm going.
Women need those spaces wherethey're allowed to be really

(47:44):
great and healthy and happy andalso have moments of just like
what the fuck am I doing?

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yeah, you mean like the full spectrum of, like the
human experience?
Yeah, I sometimes think aboutthat.
So I think, if I had to, if Ihad to summarize the results of
working with you which is notthe point, right, but it's funny
because the results of workingwith you is that I'm no longer
focused on the results andsometimes I have this mental
picture of this spectrum, right,the entire breadth of the human

(48:14):
experience, every singleemotion that's available, every
single like high, every singlelow.
It's all on this sort ofsliding scale and, like you said
, like I think we're conditionedto want to be on this one end
of that sliding scale where allthe shiny unicorn emotions live.
And, first of all, the deepestconnections that I have in my

(48:36):
life have been born from timeswhen I've been typically on the
other end of the scale orsomeone else has, and we've
shown up for each other.
And then the solidity of thatrelationship is established and
we can celebrate all the goodtimes together because we know
we can also exist together inthat other end of the spectrum.
But what I really see is thatyou have increased my capacity

(48:57):
to slide up and down that scaleand both trust myself to know
where to know where I am period,to even be able to sense where
I am which is a lot of thatsemantics am, which is a lot of
that, somatics.
And then to trust myself that ifI need to be somewhere else, I
can, I can slide whateverdirection I need to, and that

(49:17):
kind of like agility, mental andemotional flexibility, um, deep
self-trust that has nothing todo with my results and has
everything to do with who I am.
Um, and that comfort that I nowhave of I'm not going to get
stuck somewhere, I can gosomewhere else and I can ask for

(49:41):
help if I need to go somewhereelse, and I'm not going to just
be like I'm not going to bestuck and I'm also not going to
be at the whim of, you know, thewinds of life and just blown
around like a dandelion seed.
So, yeah, you have just, you'veincreased my capacity for
dancing through life, versusmarching at the like with the

(50:07):
drill sergeant who was me or youknow, falling down in a puddle
or wandering around, confusedLike I.
Just I feel like I can danceand the song changes and the
beat changes, and sometimes I'mdancing in sorrow and sometimes
I'm dancing in joy, but there'sa like, fluid, beautiful human
flexibility to the way I'mmoving through life and you are

(50:30):
a huge part of that.
Now I'm going to tear up, but Ijust thank you for that gift.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
I'm just thinking of what you were sharing.
It's like you felt like youronly options were freeze like,
do nothing, melt, like not exist, like just become this victim
of life, or you have to justconstantly be in fight, a brick
has to be on the gas pedal and II hear and I've told you this

(50:58):
and I feel like I saw it longbefore you did Like which is
funny that that tends to happenlike all start seeing something
before someone sees it inthemselves, because it's
especially with somatic healingsometimes, because it's
especially with somatic healingsometimes, because it's not
linear, it's it's sometimes, andbecause it's more of a skill
we're building than like here.
Let me give you an answer andlet's get a really quick, easy

(51:20):
result, which sometimes we havethose, but it's like it becomes
this evolution and it becomesthis like wait, no, I see it.
I see how much you trustyourself, I see how much you've
built it.
You just you're not seeing itand you're not witnessing in
yourself Like it's there butyou're not looking for it yet.
And I think what's cool is Ithink of what, I wonder what

(51:46):
this next season for you lookslike, and I think what's amazing
is even I'm sitting here alittle in shock of like, oh,
wait, results driven likegenerally, like I'm like, wait,
what results are there?
Like what's going to happen,what's going to come?
And even I'm like, oh, what'snext for you?
And then I'm like, wait, butdoes it matter?

Speaker 2 (52:08):
That's it Like I used to be the most forecasting.
That's it, like I used to bethe most forecasting, planning
every contingent.
My contingency plans hadcontingency plans, had
contingency plans, right, and Ithink that's yeah, that's a
great way to put that.
I don't really know what's next.
My life is on the brink of anumber of changes and, instead

(52:30):
of filling me with dread oranxiety, or instead of going
into pre-planning mode, I'maware that I'm going to show up
and I trust myself.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
When you're present here and now, it sounds like
you're not stuck in the past orin the projected future, which I
think you know.
And we both love strategy stillright, like we, and you know
this about me I love thehardcore strategy, I love the
systems, and that stuff reallymatters too.
And sometimes there is an easyanswer.
Sometimes there's like a quiteliterally like try this and this

(53:01):
.
And then sometimes there's thislike if we can just sit in the
question long enough, if we canlearn to relate to the deeper
thing that's going on here,we'll find what we need.
It might not be the answer youwanted, it might not.
It might even be like asidetrack, like I'm laughing at
how many times people come withan agenda and they keep going
with their agenda, and I'm likeI want to pause on something you

(53:22):
just purposely skipped over.
Like you do that to me, I do.
You'll be like here's what Iwant to talk about.
Here's a quick check in.
We're not going to talk aboutthis today.
And I pause and I'm like Ithink we should talk about that
today, are you sure?
I'm like yeah, because Iwatched your entire body Show me
, and like that's the thing withrelationships and that's the

(53:44):
thing.
We don't have to go herebecause this is a whole side
conversation for me.
But like the whole chat GPT asa therapist or a coach, I'm like
I'm so sorry but no, becausethere's no relationship, there's
no human who's relating to youand it's like sure, a chat GPT
could be your coach for two anda half years, however long I've

(54:06):
been working with you, and maybeit could recognize patterns
even better than me, becauseit's not a human.
But it's not a human.
It's not like I know you, likeI see you, I understand you and
I don't.
I have like a fundamental rulein myself that like, if I don't
have an instant like body,physical, leaning in towards a

(54:26):
woman, and it's not like I'veI've never met a woman who I'm
like, oh, I don't like her, Idon't want to work with her, but
I've had this, my like there'ssomething in me that doesn't
lean in, that doesn't.
I don't like see that somethingin her.
I know that I'm not the rightperson to work with her because
I know that so much of that, notjust growth, but like there has

(54:49):
to be a relational aspect.
I it can't just be mepretending and me having tools.
I have a genuine care and loveand, like I see something in
women and I have to be able tosee and feel it, to be able to
relate to it.
And I think that's a hard,vulnerable part for a lot of

(55:10):
professionals that either peoplepurposely don't have or they
don't have healthy boundarieswhere they're constantly
bringing it with them outside ofcalls.
But anyhow, what I was going tosay with all of that is just
it's such a joy and an honor tobe able to witness it.
I mean, I just I cry on aregular basis thinking about the

(55:34):
women that I still work with orthe women that I have worked
with, like I I know all theirnames, like I know what they've
dealt with, I know what they'vewalked through and I just think
I there's so many times where Ithink if people could just be a
fly on the wall to theconversations that women have,
if they could just hear how okayand normal it is to feel those

(55:56):
ways and not just you're okay,feel that way, but also like
here's how you heal, here's howyou move out of that, because
it's like I love you, but I loveyou too much to stare at you in
that hole and just be like well, you're okay, you're fine.
Like yeah, I know you'retreading water, but like it's
okay, that's just the season,it's like.
No, like I really truly want tohelp you build skills, so that

(56:28):
you don't feel that way.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
And then, when you do feel that way, here's how you
keep doing it, maybe in a lessexhausting way.
Yeah, I think I meanno-transcript.

(56:58):
This is something we need tomaybe circle back on and address
, and you've done that with me.
Every single time you have donethat on a call with me, it has
led to the most transformativecall.
That led to the biggest shiftin my life.
And you're right, sometimes itwas shifts, it was shit I was
hiding from, I did not want toaddress it, but thank goodness,

(57:21):
you are who you are and you sawwhat my body was screaming about
, even though my mind and voicewere like we are not addressing
that, it is not happening, andso that is such a powerful
element of your training and, Ithink, also of who you are.
There is some of your very ownmagic as well.
And then you layer in theEnneagram, which has been a tool

(57:44):
that you have used to hold up amirror to my greatness, and
also that mirror reflects myflaws somehow in a way that I'm
like okay with some of these andI see a path forward to
navigating the ones I'm not asokay with it.
Just, I don't know, like you,I've worked with different

(58:06):
people with the Enneagram and noone uses it quite in the way
you do to make me fallabsolutely in love with aspects
of who I am and then be okaywith the growth path, whatever
it ends up being toward.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
You know, turning some of the weaknesses, you know
mitigating the effects of theweaknesses or even turning them
into strength, so Mitigating theeffects of the weaknesses is
actually a perfect way to saythat, because on a regular basis
I look at myself and I'm likeyou are being such an unhealthy
too right now, like right, I wasjust talking about when I was

(58:39):
being luteal and like for surethe most unhealthy parts of me
come up and you know we're notgoing to get into my stuff but
like Enneagram without fail, isthat like objective observer,
observer who's like kind andcompassionate but like only
speaks truth?
Yes, oh shit, I.

(59:00):
I see myself in a way that likeI actually kind of didn't want
to see myself, but now that I'vesat with it, now that I've had
that like exposure therapy, Ican breathe, even when that
happens, and it gives me choiceand agency of okay, this part of
me might not go away, but I cansure as heck bring it into a
little bit more maturity.

(59:21):
Or I can own it right.
Like there are many times withmy family where I'm like hey,
I'm so sorry I don't use theword bitch to my kids, I will.
Sometimes with my husband, I'mlike I know that I am cranky,
I'm in a bad mood, I'm going tobe.
It's not you, it's the PMS, orit's like I'm having a day and
I'm so sorry.

(59:41):
I'm doing my best and if I'mcranky can you let me know.
If I'm off, can you let me know.
Or with my kids, hey, I'mhaving a tough day.
I'm having a moment.
I'm so sorry.
I snapped at you.
That wasn't your fault.
I take responsibility.
I'm so sorry.
I never used to do that when Iwas hiding in shame from those
parts of me.
It wasn't until I was willingto see them.

(01:00:03):
And I think that's what'spowerful with Enneagram is it
helps us see us.
And they're like how do youknow what type you are?
And I'm like it's the typewhere you have a literal
reaction of like like there's acringe.
There's a cringe and almostlike a deep shame, a deep like
oh, I don't like that.
That will come up, becausetypically when we're reading
other types, we don't get that.

(01:00:24):
We think, oh, it would be sogreat to be a two.
And I'm like, yeah, untilyou've had a mother or a friend
or a sister who's an unhealthytype two, then come talk to me
when you've been in closeintimate relationship with an
unhealthy two, and I'm speakingas an Enneagram two.
I am not cute when I'm unhealthy.
I'm really good at pretending,really good at prideful, really

(01:00:47):
good at lying, but it's like itonly looks cute from far away.
Really good at lying, but it'slike it only looks cute from far
away when it's your livedexperience.
Each person has that like whatis wrong with me?
How am I broken?
But what I love is thatEnneagram helps us see your
greatest weaknesses.
Are just your strengths overand underutilized?
And it gives us those helpfultools of like okay, here's when
you're veering off.

(01:01:07):
It gives us those helpful toolsof like okay, here's when
you're veering off.
Here's when you're showing upin your ego or your immaturity
or your really unhealed youngerparts.
Here's how we bring that backinto a health.
So I love that you brought upEnneagram because it's so
interesting that, like I wouldnever, I don't usually walk
around saying like I'm anEnneagram coach.

(01:01:28):
It's something that I went andcertified in because I wanted
the language for all thesedifferent lenses and views of
the world and it does bring sucha richness to coaching.
But it's something I alwaystalk often about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Yeah, I think that when I'm referring you to people
, which I obviously refer you toevery incredible powerful woman
in my life, constantly, youknow.
So I've had the analyticaltypes who are like, well, what
are her, what are hercertificate?
Like, what's her, what are hercertifications?
You know, what is she, what'sher approach?
And I'm like, okay, well, firstof all, if you're choosing,
like a therapist or a coach,based on this singular approach

(01:02:02):
that they have, like I feelconcerned because you are not a
singular human.
My partner has this saying hesays if your solution is a
hammer, every problem's a nail,something like that.
If your tool's a hammer, everyproblem's a nail.
And it's like every problem'snot a nail.
There's like a knot over there.
What are you going to do with ahammer about a knot that you're
just not going to?
And so, while you do have thissomatics background, this parts

(01:02:25):
work, this Enneagram, like youhave all these trainings and
tools at your fingertips.
It's the way you weave themtogether.
Well, actually, first of all,it's the way you are able to sit
with and actually like, seewhere your clients is at.
First of all, that's the,that's the invisible step that
is so, I think, easy toundervalue, but is like the, the

(01:02:46):
crux of your magic.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
Yeah, yeah, just chucking out a problem.
Here's a hammer, here's ahammer, here's a hammer.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Exactly so, like your ability to see where, where
your clients are actually atfirst of all, next level, and
then to weave together and tohave the responsive flexibility
to see that the hammer's notworking and exchange it for a
lock pick and exchange it for asoft blanket and exchange it for
, you know, a coat, likewhatever.
I think is really amazing, andit makes it difficult to refer

(01:03:19):
you to someone who's looking fora.
I am or have a problem.
I want the right, fittingsolution, but I think when
someone is open to exploringthat the problem that they think
they are or have maybe doesn'tlook or isn't the real problem
that they think are, are theyare, have, like, if they are
willing to exploring or willingto explore their experience and,

(01:03:41):
like you said, theirrelationship to their life, then
you're just, you're just a,you're a perfect fit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
You're just the best.
I can talk to you forever.
And also, like I just I want tothank you for how much you've
shared it.
Just it's lighting me up forwhat I do and why I do it, and
the heart of why I do ofespecially this relationality of
cause.
It's like I see a lot of intakeforms and personality of.

(01:04:15):
Because it's like I see a lotof intake forms and each one of
them will sometimes have verysimilar language, because a lot
of the language we're gettingfor what the problem is is
coming from culture, it's comingfrom social media, it's coming
from other people telling ushere's what's wrong with you.
But when I get into a Zoom roomwith that woman, you get into a
room with her at a retreat.
You get into a Zoom room withthat woman.
You get into a room with her ata retreat, you get into a
women's circle with her and shestarts talking about it.

(01:04:39):
What that looks like might bevery different than how it feels
to her, and someone might beburning out because they're
going too slow, or someone'sburning out because their foot
is on the gas and on the brakesand they need permission to just
have their foot on the gas.
But I think so many people havethis hammer approach to all of

(01:04:59):
these things of here's yourproblem, here's your solution,
here's your 10-step strategy.
Right, we laugh about this inMastermind.
Whatever for your 10-step thing, that'll for sure work.
And it's like, yeah, that worksfor simplistic data strategies.
But humans, motherhoodrelationships and even business,

(01:05:20):
a lot of times they're notsimple equations, there's so
many factors playing into it andit's like a bowl of spaghetti,
right, like I don't know whosays that, someone says it, but
like a lot of times it's justlike this bowl of spaghetti and
you can't just be like, oh, it'sthat one noodle.
It's like, no, there's like allof these different things tied
in and you kind of have to.

(01:05:41):
It's going to take a minute.
You can't just like throw it onthere and hope it works.
It's like you sometimes have topull it things for a minute and
have some patience.
And that is hard when you'reused to the strategy.
And I have to laugh because Ifeel like when I first started
as a coach, my personal approachto my own life was very much

(01:06:02):
that, like you know, thatpersonal growth mindset where,
like, here's the strategy,here's the habits, here's the
very's the habits.
Here's the very masculine, verylogical, but that, like it
wasn't hitting, it wasn'tchanging how it felt.
It changed how it looked.
It changed how I was perceived,it changed how my motherhood

(01:06:23):
looked on the outside.
It didn't do that much tochange how it felt in my body.
It didn't do that much tochange how marriage felt, even
if I was getting better atthings, and I think that's what
the slower, somatic, relationalstuff has done, which I'm just
trying to think, if I'm.
Are there any final things thatyou would want to say or that

(01:06:44):
you would want to end this with?

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
Yes, it's interesting when I talk to people about
your services and working withyou and they ask me oh, what
problem are you trying to solve?
What result are you trying toget?
Because your life seems prettygreat and I'm like my life

(01:07:15):
results are great.
Right, I would be consideredsuccessful, I have a great
relationship, I have a healthy,happy daughter who I have a
wonderful relationship with.
On the surface, if you looked atmy life, even back then, when I
first started working with you,people would kill to have my
life and yet my experience of it, there were a lot of areas

(01:07:38):
where I was fucking miserable.
And so, even though you couldlook at my life and you could
say, oh, are you making sixtimes what you were making when
you first started working withBecca?
Are you, you know?
Are your results X, y, z?
It's like who fucking cares?
Because I love to be here.
I love to be here in my life,even when it's not fun.

(01:08:00):
I'm grounded in, like I want tobe here, I want to be having
this experience and I'm willingto have this experience fully
and not hide from it and notshirk it and not get away from
it by future planning or piningfor the past, I'm willing to
actually live in my life andit's why I refer you to people

(01:08:22):
who aren't in a place ofstruggle necessarily, or a
season of difficulty, because Ithink that there's always more
room to live more fully intoourselves and, as we've said
numerous times on this call inrelationship with our lives, and
I want that for everyonebecause it has been an
immeasurable gift for me.

(01:08:43):
So you're not just someone whohelps people through tough
seasons, although you are anincredible asset.
Although you are an incredibleasset new motherhood,
post-divorce, difficult years ofmarriage, confusion around
business, like healing fromtrauma Like you are an amazing

(01:09:05):
resource from people who needhelp in a time of struggle or
difficulty or feeling lost, andworking with you when my life is
gangbusters is just even better.
Gangbusters is just even better.
You're like the frosting andyou help me get to live fully
into my life, and so I'm sograteful for you, for you being
part of my life, for anyopportunity I have to interact

(01:09:26):
with you and, obviously, to winas your podcast guest number one
.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Obviously Win.
As the podcast guest Three P, Ifeel like you need a medal.
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for everything you'veshared in this whole podcast
and just the word.
You're so good with words,you're so good with language and
even you've given me so much inthis podcast and just
witnessing you is such a gift.
Like in general, but also this,you know, I could just gush

(01:09:54):
about you.
I.
There's this real where it'slike when you're an overly
affectionate person and that isme it's like I like when I love
people, when I care about people.
I care big and I'm notapologetic about that Like I
will love you too much and Ihope you feel uncomfortable with
how much I like you.
One of the things you're sayingand I think this is a great

(01:10:14):
place to wrap it up is I thinkso many people wait to get help
until they're drowning.
Yes, many people wait untilthey're middle of the storm and
then they go and they're like Ineed rehab and I'm like the best
time to build a bigger, betterboat is when you're not drowning
.
And that's not to say there'sany shame with getting help ever
.
And I look at my life right nowand I've had one-on-one coaching

(01:10:36):
for years, for years now, andthis last winter, fall, you know
this but like I went throughsome deep, hard stuff and it was
one of the first times in acouple of years, honestly, that
I needed coaching, that I feltlike I need this to be able to
show up to my life.
Well, now I'm in a season wherethe last few calls I've shown
up and I'm like I got nothing, Igot no content, I got no

(01:10:57):
problems, I got no things.
Those have been some of themost potent calls, because I
have capacity, because I havethe mental and emotional
wherewithal to look around andsay where are the leaky holes
that are going to bring down theboat?
But I have attention to pay tothem and it's a gift to me and I
think it's helped me so much,even when I'm not drowning, even

(01:11:22):
when I'm not struggling,because I hold a lot and I lead
a lot and I want to ask a lot ofmyself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
I continually want to ask more of myself and in order
to do that, I need more comingin.
I don't need anybody, and it'slike, actually, we're still the
same human community orientedpeople that we've always been,
and I I think that that ourhealing and our growth and our

(01:12:10):
joy occurs in relationship,whether it's relationship to
ourselves or relationship toothers.
So I, I just I believe infilling that bucket constantly,
and then sometimes it getsdumped.
I need the whole fricking thingRight and I have to start over
refilling it, but I'm sograteful that I was all along.
So, yeah, I don't.
Just to be clear, you have todo this for the rest of your
life, Um, because they don'tforesee ever not having you in

(01:12:31):
my life as a coach.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
So I mean I love this .
And we were doing those likefun questions on our road trip
and it was like what would youdo for work if you were a
millionaire?
And I was like this, this if Ihad, or it was like if you won
the lottery, right, like ifmoney was no issue, what would
you do?
And I was like exactly what I'mdoing right now.
I mean I might, I might, ofcourse, I'd have like a whole
nonprofit side, but you know,okay, thank you so so much for

(01:12:56):
being here today and for doingthis podcast.
It was so, so fun.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
I would love to talk about you for two more hours,
but no one would listen, sowe'll just do that off podcast
sometime.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Thanks for joining me on today's episode of the
motherhood mentor podcast.
Make sure you have subscribedbelow so that you see all of the
upcoming podcasts that arecoming soon.
I hope you take today's episodeand you take one aha moment,
one small, tangible piece ofwork that you can bring into
your life, to get your hands alittle dirty, to get your skin
in the game.
Don't forget to take upaudacious space in your life.

(01:13:37):
If this podcast moved you, ifit inspired you, if it
encouraged you, please do me afavor and leave a review, send
an episode to a friend.
This helps the show gain moretraction.
It helps us to support moremoms, more women, and that's
what we're doing here.
So I hope you have an awesomeday, take really good care of

(01:13:59):
yourself and I'll see you nexttime.